Re: It's only a matter of time before Iverson departs

["A. K." <karadag1@xxxxxxxxx>]

100% agree with that.

Abdullah


--- Josh Ozersky <jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> The Pierce / Peja thing is ludicrous.  Peja is a role player.
> Did Pierce sleep with your girlfriend or something?  The guy is an elite
> rebounder for his position, gathering bet. 5 and 600 a year for most
> of his career.  He is an excellent defender when he sets his mind to it.
> And
> he's a frigging MONEY IN THE BANK scorer who can
> create his own shot and dominate any defender in the league,
> esp. in crunch time.  Doesn't that count for something?  All
> Peja does is shoot jump shots and make a few nice passes.
> His rebounding and steals numbers are higher than I expected,
> but he's a still pure  finesse guy who has yet to live down
> shooting AIRBALLS in crunch time vs. the Lakers, and
> who has never even tried to defend.  There isn't one GM
> in the league who would trade Pierce for Peja; the two aren't
> even close as players.  Peja is a Byron Scott; Pierce is a
> Dominique Wilkins.  It's not even fair to compare them.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:11 PM
> Subject: FW: It's only a matter of time before Iverson departs
> 
> 
> > Here's the thing about Pierce/Peja. If Pierce eliminates all his bad
> > habits, you have Peja. Neither is a great ball-handler or passer. Peja
> > doesn't try to be. Pierce does. Does that mean Pierce is better at it? I
> > don't think so. I think it's a credit to Peja that he plays within
> > himself. Neither is a good defender. Pierce is a better rebounder, but
> > that doesn't erase all the bad habits he has that Peja doesn't. Peja is
> > a much more efficient scorer who has evolved into more than just a
> > shooter.
> >
> > On Yao ... He's making the leap right before our eyes. He's not timid.
> > He's the only guy in the league who doesn't back down to Shaq. If you're
> > going to include LeBron, you have to include Yao.
> >
> > Finally, Jermaine O'Neal ... He's probably closer to the Pierce group
> > than anyone else. He still lacks a go-to move. I only put him in that
> > top 11 because he's a big guy who can dominate a game. Those guys always
> > have more value and more of an impact on a game than a swingman.
> >
> > As for Iverson, he had one dream season in a perfect convergence in the
> > Eastern Conference. He's a great talent, but everything has to be
> > tailored to him. Shouldn't a truly elite player make the other players
> > better? Instead, Philly has spent eight years trying to piece together a
> > team to fit Iverson. It was the same small-minded thinking that had
> > overtaken the Celtics. "Forget about talent, we want limited role
> > players who won't take shots/touches from our 'stars'." I hate that kind
> > of approach. You do that when you have Shaq or Duncan, not when you have
> > Pierce, Walker or Iverson. And to top it off, Iverson is aging and
> > starting to break down.
> >
> > I love debating this stuff with you Josh. You're as nuts about it as I
> > am.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > P.S. I agree about Shaq/Duncan/Kobe. They're the cream of the crop. I
> > think more of Garnett than you do, but I still think Shaq/Duncan/Kobe
> > are the best.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Ozersky [mailto:jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:34 AM
> > To: Berry, Mark S
> > Subject: Re: It's only a matter of time before Iverson departs
> >
> > Mark, since we agree on practically everything, I don't
> > mind taking this up.  I think you underrate Pierce.  He
> > has played poorly this year, but as a talent, he's far above
> > the one-dimensional and unreliable Peja, the still-timid Yao, and the
> > soft and spotty Jermaine O'Neal.  Pierce and Iverson have been
> > the Man on playoff teams, and beaten other playoff teams
> > by themselves when the pressure was on.  (Which is more than
> > KG can say.)  Iverson is a former MVP who carried his team all the way
> > to
> > the finals, for pete's sake.  I think you could make a lot better
> > argument
> > for Brand, Francis, and a couple of others than the wimps
> > you nominate as being better than PP and AI.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: It's only a matter of time before Iverson departs
> >
> >
> > > Josh wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > he's a top ten NBA talent.  (Shaq, Duncan,
> > >
> > > Kobe, KG, McGrady, Kidd, Nowitski, Pierce, Iverson, James)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- --- ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Josh, are you openly challenging me? This is a test, isn't it? Well,
> > > I'll throw my two cents in (surprise, surprise ... )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Top 10:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Shaq
> > >
> > > Duncan
> > >
> > > Kobe
> > >
> > > Garnett
> > >
> > > T-Mac
> > >
> > > Kidd
> > >
> > > Nowitzki
> > >
> > > James (if not now, certainly within a year or two)
> > >
> > > Yao Ming (if we're projecting for LeBron, we have to do the same for
> > > Yao)
> > >
> > > Jermaine O'Neal
> > >
> > > Peja Stojakovic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, that's 11, but those are the guys I'd consider clear upgrades on
> > > Pierce and Iverson, who I lump in the next group along with guys like
> > > Ray Allen, Michael Finley, Carmello Anthony, Baron Davis, Steve
> > Francis,
> > > Steve Nash, Mike Bibby, Elton Brand, Pau Gasol, Kenyon Martin, and a
> > few
> > > others. I'm not so sure I'm rating the point guards high enough. Steve
> > > Nash probably is the most valuable Maverick. Bibby is terribly
> > > underrated (not underpaid).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, Pierce is out of the elite group until he returns to 2001-02
> > > form. In that top 11, by the way, there's a clear cutoff in my mind.
> > > Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, T-Mac and Kidd are the truly elite
> > players,
> > > with LeBron and Yao well on their way to joining that list. Nowitzki,
> > > Jermaine O'Neal and Peja are a notch below because they don't make
> > > everyone better -- the others do.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As for the original point about Iverson, no thanks, and it has nothing
> > > to do with his tattoos. He doesn't practice (only Bill Russell ever
> > > earned that right), is completely uncoachable, plays a style that will
> > > never result in a championship and has seen his best years. No way.
> > Not
> > > at the price it would cost to get him (think Pierce).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Speaking of Pierce, it was nice to see him play better Saturday night.
> > > If he can continue to do that, the Celts are in good shape for the
> > > playoffs and the future. If those games continue to be the exception
> > > rather than the rule, they're in trouble. By the way, the difference
> > > between the lottery pick that comes with missing the playoffs and the
> > > pick as the last playoff team is shrinking. Right now it would be
> > three
> > > spots 11-14. With that difference, it's better to make the playoffs.
> > But
> > > a pick as high as seven still is within reach. In my opinion, the
> > > worst-case scenario is what we see now - just missing the playoffs,
> > but
> > > playing well enough to miss out on a top-eight pick. I want them
> > either
> > > to make the playoffs, or go in the tank and get that high pick. One or
> > > the other. No in between.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark


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