Fw: Twan rearing his ugly head

["Troy Hash" <troyhash@xxxxxxx>]

Agree 100%.   Well said.
Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Niles" <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <Celtic4Hire@xxxxxxx>; <jahill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Twan rearing his ugly head


> Many would argue that every one of Danny's trades have been for guys that
> have more talent than the ones he shipped out.. AND.. that he has not
taken
> on any unmovable contracts. You say Raef could never be traded. Many
> disagree with that. He was traded to us, wasn't he? And now another year
is
> gone from his deal since then, which if we go by your Antoine logic, only
> makes Raef's deal more attractive. Plus, despite your saying that he is
not,
> Raef IS actually a young guy.
>
> Ricky could easily be moved. Same with Mihm, Atkins, or Stewart. Danny is
> not taking on contracts that he will be stuck with. He could move anyone
on
> this roster at any time.
>
>
> >From: Sean Giovanello <sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: Shawn Niles <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >CC: Celtic4Hire@xxxxxxx,  jahill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,  celtics@xxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: Twan rearing his ugly head
> >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:35:39 -0500
> >
> >If you have a guy that can judge talent it can work. If you have a guy
who
> >is not universally hated (Krause), it can work. There are risks to every
> >strategy. Regardless, I am not talking about nuking the Celts down to a
CBA
> >roster and playing for draft picks and the hope to lure a prize free
agent
> >and rebuild. I am talking about a strategy for building/managing a team
(I
> >call it the anti-Pitino philosophy) where you try never to take on a
> >contract you will have trouble moving and in every deal you want to be
> >sensitive to those issues. About the only time you would want a long term
> >contract is when its a young guy at a reasonable salary or if you are
> >getting an elite player. Raef is neither of those. I think its moves that
> >ignore this that doom a team like the C's. If Danny does not realize
that,
> >I think that regardless of his eye for talent (which he has) that he will
> >ultimately be a failure here.
> >
> >Shawn Niles wrote:
> >
> >>Clearing cap space worked really well for Orlando and Chicago. Teams are
> >>starting to realize that clearing cap space is not the best way to build
> >>your team.
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Sean Giovanello" <sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <Celtic4Hire@xxxxxxx>, <jahill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >>><celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> >>>Subject: RE: Twan rearing his ugly head
> >>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:56:29 -0500
> >>>
> >>>***
> >>>Something you never explain, Sean, is just what other trade was out
> >>>there
> >>>that was better than what we got?
> >>>****
> >>>
> >>>Right before the season started? Probably nothing. There are very very
> >>>few deals available at that time of year. So, we were dealing at the
> >>>wrong time of year, unless you truly believe that Toine was such a
> >>>cancer he had to be dealt immediately. If that's the case, why wasn't
> >>>he dealt over the summer?
> >>>
> >>>My point in all of this is simple NBA logic. As a players contract
> >>>comes closer and closer to being up, his contract gets more valuable.
> >>>Ideally, Walker could have been dealt before the deadline this year
and,
> >>>if not, during the offseason or next season at the deadline. At each
> >>>point, IN THEORY, his contract becomes more valuable as a trading chit.
> >>>I am not claiming omnipotence or farseeing abilities here. I am just
> >>>using NBA logic here.
> >>>
> >>>***
> >>>If Walker opts out this year which I think is 50-50 after listening to
> >>>his radio show last night, the Mavs like the Cs would get nothing for
> >>>him.
> >>>***
> >>>
> >>>We would get nothing except shedding a max contract - 14 million
dollars
> >>>per annum!!!! Considering its looking like we have been amazingly lucky
> >>>shedding Vin to then lose Antoine for nothing as you say would be
> >>>amazing luck. Where would it have left our cap to take Walker and Baker
> >>>off? Fundamentally, we have a disagreement over rebuilding here. I
> >>>think the way to rebuild is to create cap flexibility, which we really
> >>>have not. I think creating some space lets you be a player in almost
> >>>anything going on in the NBA - draft, free agency, and trades. If he
> >>>opted out, and even in light of his comments last night, I do not think
> >>>it likely, its not a bad thing. The argument from this view would be
> >>>that if he opted out we would clear some major cap room, not be saddled
> >>>with Raef's escalating deal (which I think pays him close to the max
the
> >>>last two years), and so forth. We would not have Jiri and we would not
> >>>have Atkins. We would not have the first rounder. However, I think
> >>>most teams would follow the course I have laid out rather than what
> >>>Danny has done.
> >>>
> >>>I fully admit I might be wrong. Nothing is certain in life. I don't
> >>>really have a side here. I liked Toine, but knew he was going to be
> >>>traded. I think he would have had more value down the road, but that
> >>>being said I like Jiri on this team. I just think the longer this deal
> >>>goes (unless we get insanely lucky on this pick) that we will be saying
> >>>it might have been better to keep Cyber Toine for a few more months
> >>>rather than take Raef.
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Celtic4Hire@xxxxxxx [mailto:Celtic4Hire@xxxxxxx]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:28 AM
> >>>To: sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxx; jahill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> >>>celtics@xxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: Re: Twan rearing his ugly head
> >>>
> >>>Something you never explain, Sean, is just what other trade was out
> >>>there
> >>>that was better than what we got? If Walker opts out this year which I
> >>>think is
> >>>50-50 after listening to his radio show last night, the Mavs like the
Cs
> >>>would
> >>>get nothing for him. If he doesn't opt out, why do you think a better
> >>>deal is
> >>>out there, even for the Mavs? Look at what we got for Mills expiring
> >>>deal,
> >>>Atkins and a no. 1. Yeah, the Blazers got more for Wallace's contract
> >>>but he is
> >>>better than Twan.....
> >>>
> >>>DJessen33
> >>>
> >>><< I think its highly unlikely that he will - but if there were a guy
> >>>who
> >>>would do it, I think it would be Antoine.
> >>>
> >>>I don't agree with you on Raef, but time will tell which of us is
> >>>right.
> >>>I just think his talent doesn't justify his salary and that if I recall
> >>>correctly due to the way his contract is structured his salary is not
> >>>an
> >>>even 10 per season, but goes up each year.
> >>>
> >>>I like what we got in return - my point was just that we (as in the
> >>>Celtics and their fans) value that stuff a lot more than Dallas did.
> >>>Mills meant very little to Dallas cause Cuban has a lot deeper pockets
> >>>and is willing to dip into them. For the draft pick, there are
> >>>probably
> >>>a lot of teams who wouldn't be wild about the 27th pick in the first
> >>>round - Danny thinks he can get something or use it in a deal to net
> >>>something back. If he does, excellent. For Dallas, its not that big
> >>>of
> >>>a deal. For Jiri, I am not sure he will be a above average NBA starter
> >>>- but it looks like he might be just what this team or any team needs
> >>>--> a smart, heady player with some skill and some toughness. I don't
> >>>think he is the answer, but he is certainly a piece of the puzzle to
> >>>building a winning team here. Again, for Dallas, they already have
> >>>that
> >>>and thus he goes to being a key cog here versus a minor bit part there.
> >>>None of this is my attempt to run down the extras in this deal - I just
> >>>don't agree with Raef coming back due to a) his contract b) his skills
> >>>and c)the idea that getting rid of cap space and financial flexibility
> >>>for anything less than a true star is bad business in the NBA... >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
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