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Re: What's the difference between Kobe and Vin? Are you SERIOUS??
At 05:10 PM 10/13/03 -0400, Shawn Niles wrote:
>Some of your comments were naive, yes. Of course parents should control
>what info their kids are privy to. My point was that kids have 4 or 5 more
>accesible venues to get Kobe information besides this list. The kid angle
>is not a good excuse to not post articles here.
I readily concede that I may have some naive views. I don't necessarily
think that is bad. However, the kids reference was one of several
reasons. Based on your reply, the same reasoning would justify file
sharing of music on this list because it's available everywhere else
too. Another reason--perhaps a more appropriate one--is that of
questionable relevance.
>You said... "And if "All any kid has to do is look at a newspaper and
>they'll get the same article," then why post it here?"
>
>Well if thats the case, then why do we get game articles posted here? Why
>not just tell everyone to buy a newspaper? Why do you post stories from
>the CBW? All anyone has to do is go to the site and read them there, right?
It helps to know that A) the site is there and B) has new content of
relevance to the list. And relevance--such as reviewing a Celtics game--is
why I post "stories" from the CBW. Though some people might refer to them
as game reviews. By the way, I notice that when you replied, you deleted
my signature line for the CBW, but left intact two of your own. Not a
complaint, just an observation. :>)
>>From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: Celtics@xxxxxxxx
>>Subject: Re: What's the difference between Kobe and Vin? Are you SERIOUS??
>>Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:17:53 -0400
>>
>>Maybe I'm naive, or perhaps just nostalgic, but I'd like to think parents
>>somewhere are still making an effort to exert a reasonable influence over
>>exactly how much info the kids get, lest they somehow DO end up "on some
>>porn site".
>>
>>And, to clarify, I realize that Kobe himself is basketball related. The
>>notion of whether he will play--or how well--is indeed relevant, though
>>at this juncture, perhaps moreso to the Lakers than to the Celtics. But
>>chapter and verse on his accuser's physical condition? Sorry, that's not
>>relevant in my view. And if "All any kid has to do is look at a
>>newspaper and they'll get the same article," then why post it here? We
>>play LA twice a year, unless both teams make the Finals. How important
>>is it to the Celtics on a daily basis?
>>
>>At 10:05 AM 10/13/03 -0400, Shawn Niles wrote:
>>
>>>I hate to agree with Ray, but I see no problem posting the Kobe
>>>articles. This is a basketball related list, and Kobe's trial certainly
>>>has a lot to do with basketball. As for the comment about the
>>>kids.... well you better block your kids from MSN, CNN, Boston.com, and
>>>any other news sites because thats where the article came from. It is an
>>>AP released article. It's not like Ray went on some porn site and posted
>>>an article from there. Kobe's case is a NEWS story. All any kid has to
>>>do is look at a newspaper and they'll get the same article.
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: Celtics@xxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: What's the difference between Kobe and Vin? Are you SERIOUS??
>>>>Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 23:21:59 -0400
>>>>
>>>>At 04:26 PM 10/11/03 -0400, Dan Forant wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Please explain the difference in Kobe's case compared to the AA posts we
>>>>>went through with Baker??? Also guys list all the taboo subjects you don't
>>>>>want discussed.
>>>>
>>>>In no particular order:
>>>>
>>>>Difference #1: Vin Baker plays for the Boston Celtics. Kobe does not.
>>>>This is a Celtics-based list.
>>>>
>>>>Difference #2: This list discussed Baker's problem in context of
>>>>how--or if--he could continue to play for Boston, how the team treated
>>>>his problem, and how he has played since entering rehab. The
>>>>discussion regarding the details what may (or may not) have happened
>>>>between Kobe and his accuser has, so far as I can tell, nothing
>>>>whatsoever to do with the Celtics, or basketball in general, except as
>>>>a peripheral comment on the violent behavior of professional basketball
>>>>players. Even then, this kind of detail is unwarranted, at least
>>>>here. I presume it might be at least minimally more germaine to a
>>>>Lakers-based list.
>>>>
>>>>Granted, some of the talk about alcoholism in general may have wandered
>>>>a little far afield, but at least it still held strong relevance to Vin
>>>>Baker, and I personally found it informative.
>>>>
>>>>As was mentioned, there are probably kids who read this list--though, I
>>>>would hope, with parental supervision. While we can't pretend they're
>>>>so naive as to think there are no bad people in the world, I think it's
>>>>reasonable to at least not go chapter and verse into events that really
>>>>don't have a place here.
>>>>
>>>>For myself, I've never minded if the topic wanders a little
>>>>occasionally, but some things are just not appropriate, and I have to
>>>>say that post would be one of them. I'm not timid myself. As a
>>>>writer, I've written a violent scene or two myself (though only for
>>>>books specifically geared away from kids). We owe the kids our
>>>>restraint in this venue, and even our fellow adults. Not everyone is
>>>>strong of stomach.
>>>>
>>>>I think Dan seems to view this as a censorship (MY word, NOT his) issue.
>>>>I think it's more a matter of exercising good judgement, which frankly,
>>>>may not have happened. Ray did realize he should have posted a warning
>>>>header, which would have helped, and I give him credit for that. But I
>>>>think the wiser course would have been not to repost the article.
>>>>
>>>>The matter with Kobe is unprecedented in several ways, not least of
>>>>which is the availability of graphic detail that in years past never
>>>>left the courtroom. Now such things are routinely included in books,
>>>>movies, and TV series. And so, online as well. I'm a proponent of the
>>>>sharing of information,but the question of the appropriate venue must
>>>>be considered before sharing it.
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure there are sites online that gather all the facts--and
>>>>fiction--about Kobe's trial. I personally think it might be better for
>>>>those interested to simply go there, or join the appropriate list,
>>>>leaving it off this one. Of course, as an old friend used to say "Of
>>>>COURSE that's "just my opinion"--do YOU see any stone tablets here?"
>>>>
>>>>It's just sad. Two families lives will be destroyed no matter what
>>>>happens. Do we REALLY need to hear all the sordid details?
>>>
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>
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Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website