Re: Maybe they do miss Raef..

[CeltsSteve@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 11/26/03 11:55:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jahill199@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

> <...You have been criticizing O'Brien's "dysfunctional" offense for years
> but it didn't impede Pierce from finally attaining All-Star status -- not
> once but
> twice -- under said coach and his dysfunctional style.- CeltsSteve to
> Eggcentric>
>
> And what gives you reason to assume Pierce wouldn't have attained All Star
> status, perhaps sooner and more often, under a different coach?


What stopped him from doing so?  Are you suggesting it was Pitino's fault? Do
I detect a common theme here? It's somebody else's fault when Paul doesn't
perform well or as well as his talent and potential should allow him to but
Paul
should not be held accountable?

Pierce is one of the preeminent SCORERS in the game. He puts the ball in the
goal and points on the scoreboard as well as anyone. At least he used to
anyway. And he did so under both Pitino and under O'Brien. Unfortunately, he
is
struggling mightily at the current time. How can it be the coach's fault now
when
Pierce thrived under the same coach to begin with?



> Cream rises to the top in most every situation.  Pierce will again.


I have faith he will, too. He's simply too talented of a scorer. In the
meantime, though, he needs a lot of work on other areas of his game that have
been
exposed during this rocky stretch.


>  The coach stated on many occasions that he did not focus on offense.


So how is that any different from years past when O'Brien emphasized D over
O? Pierce still thrived then, correct?





> The last few years have been like watching a pick up game with clear outs,
> isolation
> plays and a one/two-on-many style of game.

Granted and it was during that same timeframe that Pierce managed to excel
and become an All Star





> I don't credit OB for Pierce becoming an All Star.  I think if you put
> Pierce on any other team in the league he would have become one by now.


I don't disagree. You're right. As you say, cream rises to the top. But if
anyone wants to rationalize that Pierce's current problems are the fault of
the
coach, that position is illogical in the face of the fact that under the same
coach he previously thrived




> It's the players that are "less" then a Pierce, skill wise, that need a
> coach to put them in a position to grow and succeed.


Ahhh. But alas, we aren't talking about the "lesser" players skill wise. We
are talking about our Max contract, veteran All-Star, captain. As he goes, so
goes this team. The "lesser aren't holding Pierce down, are they? If so, there
we go again. Somebody else's fault other than Paul's.




> This team needs all it's parts working together to be successful.  It needs
> time for some guys to get experience.  Their are some of us who question if
> OB is the right coach, at the this time, for these guys.
>
> Do you think, based on the last couple years, that OB is that guy?
>
> At this point it is still just a matter of opinion on whether or not he is.
> Based on what I've seen with Brown etc... I am open to a different coach or
> at the very least an offensive assistant coach to actually run some plays
that
> will give them a chance at success.
>
> <Jim


Jim,

There are seven carryover players on the current roster: Pierce, Kedrick,
Williams, Battie, McCarty, Baker, and Blount. I think an argument could be
made
that all 7 have shown improvement under O'Brien's tenure. EWill? I'd say his
game has improved under O'Brien. He's reclaimed some of his former "sizzle" he
displayed in his first three seasons that he seemed to have lost since the
knee
operation. McCarty had a career year last year. How about Baker?   Does
O'Brien get any credit for Vin's resurgence? Or is that also a case of cream
rising
to the top? I think we'd all agree Battie has improved over the past 2-3
years as the mainstay big man and evolved into a decent (role) player since
OBrien
took over. I'd also submit that Blount has shown improvement in terms of shot
blocking, passing, and being able to step out and knock down a perimeter shot
or two.

Kedrick hasn't progressed as fast as we'd all like but he has progressed in
the two seasons and 13 games he's been in the league. He was out with an
injury
last year that slowed his practice time and development. He's finally seeing
the floor and has quietly evolved into the C's best individual/man defender.
The offense will come. He probably never be a 20 pt a night scorer but he can
be a double double guy or close to it. And I think we'd all be happy with
that.
    

There are 8 new players on the roster this year: 3 rooks including a high
schooler; one player that will never suit up; one currently on IR and one that
just came off of IR and who missed all of the exhibition season; one that
arrived by trade after the season started; and an unheralded FA signee. Quite
a
motley crew. Fans are knocking O'Brien.for lack of development or cohesion
on that
assortment after 13 games?

If O'Brien has to take the fall for the current funk, so be it. The NBA has
always been a players league and it always will. It's easier to replace a
coach
than to trade players, especially under the current CBA. I don't think it
would be fair but as you know life in general isn't always fair. I just don't
think that changing coaches would make much difference for the better right
now
until the talent is upgraded.

And I would argue that had Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, or whatever flavor of the
month, hot young coach du jour that you want to name could have come in and
replaced Pitino and accomplished any more than what O'Brien did.  End of
story.

Let's all pull for the 4-game losing streak to end tonight, especially with
the brutal upcoming stretch in December.

Here's to you and your family having a Happy (and safe) Thanksgiving and to
all the igtc.com listers and C's fans everywhere.

CeltsSteve