Re: win

[Kestutis.Kveraga@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Kestutis Kveraga)]

--- You wrote:
Well Kestas, youve completely missed the point of my original post.  I never
questioned anyones loyalty and offered no litmus test for being a Celtic fan. 
What I did say is that you and Egg, and the others, who cant find a good thing
to say about the Celtics, cant have it all ways.  If the players and the talent
scouts are as bad as you say, then Obie has to be the best NBA Basketball Coach
ever.  If Obie is the worst basketball coach this side of Isaiah, then the
players must be truly gifted and remarkable to overcome that handicap and make
it to the Conference Semi-Finals.  Somebody has to get some credit!!!
--- end of quote ---

You're misattributing others' opinions to me. I never said most of the things
you accuse me of , as you can see for yourself if you check the archive. The
only person in the current Celtics organization I'm almost completely down on
is Wallace, for the obvious reasons.  I have mixed feelings about Toine and his
enabler Obie, feelings that yo-yo based on Toine's level of restraint and how
the Celtics are playing. That's a far cry from being completely down on them. I
think Pierce is great, and the role players are getting the most out of their
talent  _given_the_current_strategy. I'm feeling hopeful and positive about the
new owners (though I did, admittedly, really dislike Thanksdad - didn't you?). 

--- You wrote:
I think it is you who refuse to consider any other conclusion than the Celtics
suck, the organization sucks and the Coach sucks.  Im no Pollyanna, but Id
rather be following the Celtics than any other franchise. 
--- end of quote ---

That's nonsense. See above. I'm not yet another alias of WayRay. 

--- You wrote:
 The only fans who really have more to look forward to than us are LA,
Sacramento, San Antonio, and Dallas.

Here are a few positive thoughts about the Celtics you can chew on (and
dispute). The Celtics were the only team other than Dallas to recognize the
brilliance of Dirk Nowitzki.  We were lucky that Pierce slipped to us, but plan
A was always Nowitzki .  We were the only other team bidding against Indiana
for Jermaine ONeal.  I believe we offered out three first round draft picks,
but were trumped by Indy offering Dale Davis after his all-star season. 
(Imagine what our lineup would look like if we had managed to snag him.)  No
doubt, Wallace whiffed on the Vin Baker deal, but at least he was swinging for
the fences. If Vin came back like the player he was in Milwaukee, Wallace would
be the unanimous choice for GM of the year.  He failed, and it certainly might
cost Wallace his job.  If so, at least he went down swinging.  Id much rather
have that than the Toronto GMs who would rather do nothing and keep their job. 
As for Obie, I see a guy who realizes he can never beat the!
  elite teams without a powerful Center.  So, instead of losing to those teams
in the accepted fashion, he fashions a game plan that takes advantage of the
skills he does have to give the Celtics a fighting chance.
--- end of quote ---

It's funny, but most of the positive things you mention are either pure
speculation, and/or occurred under the Pitino regime. I'm not sure that
Nowitzki, had we been able to get him, would have blossomed like he has in
Dallas's free-flowing offense. Don't forget who the resident PF on this team
is. It is likely that Dirk would be playing out of position and either doing
the headless chicken dance with Pitino, or be stationed out behind the 3-point
line in Obie's motionless offense. In any case, correctly thinking that some
player might be good, yet failing to get him hardly qualifies as a success
story in my book. Imagine saying something like, "yeah, we never managed to get
that contract, but we correctly predicted that it would be a major boon to, and
dramatically increase the stock value of, any company that got it!", to your
shareholders, if you're a CEO. When you start viewing things like that in a
positive light, you're grasping at straws. 

And I just love your justification for the Baker trade, where trading a decent
value for an emotionally fragile alcoholic and completely clogging your salary
cap situation for years is termed "swinging for the fences". It's more like
swinging at your own head. Everybody in the NBA, except Wallace, knew that
Baker was finished. Even if he weren't a complete wreck, taking on his salary
is almost impossible to justify, unless he plays like Shaq or Duncan. Unlike
you, I'd very much prefer that the GM do nothing, if the alternative is pulling
off deals like that. 

As for Obie's chosen strategy, that's also speculation based on Obie's just-so
claim (which, I suspect, is based on Toine's preferred style of play).  It's a
belief he has never justified or explained. There's no control condition. There
might be hope for Obie or Toine if they were separated, if Toine played under a
coach that didn't succumb to his demands and Obie could coach without
contorting his strategy around Toine's preferences. It might still be the same,
but we don't know that.  But I do know that the present strategy is ugly, and
suspect that it is not optimal. We just don't know what might happen with a
motion offense, given our current cast of players.  But I'd guess, looking at
the teams that use it, that we wouldn't be worse off, whether we had a good
center or not. Do the Nets have a powerful center? Do the Mavericks?

Unlike some people, I don't place blind trust in any coach or GM. I don't say,
"they're in this position, they MUST know better what's good for the team". 
(Especially when they've ended up in their current position through incredible
luck).  Questioning things and not taking at face value someone's beliefs that
are based on who-knows-what is part of my job description, and it spills over
into my passion for the Celtics.  
Kestas