Re: win

[Sean Giovanello <sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I dont regularly post on here and generally delete any threads that have 
personal sniping/egocentric posts.   However, I have been following this 
one to some extent for a single reason.  I think each of the views on 
this thread typifies many Celtics fans and their schizophrenic or wildly 
ambivalent bilpolar views of the team.  In watching this team this year, 
it was clear that they took way to many 3 pointers, in game and down the 
stretch coaching was sorely lacking, PP and AW were ridden like it was 
the fourth quarter of a playoff game throughout the season, Kedrick 
languished on the bench at the expense of Grant Long, the team acquired 
the corpse of Vin Baker who contributed less than nothing.  Off the 
court, the trade for Baker, the bungling of draft choices, the refusal 
to keep an adequate complement of players all had to irritate fans.  Did 
we need Sundov more than Songalia?  Did dealing Kenny for Vin already 
being the worst trade in NBA history beome even worse when it was 
revealed that he was a hot commodity due to his PG skills and (90% of 
it) his contract.   Could Kenny and a  have fetched us Kwame Brown at 
the deadline?   All of these things really bothered me during the season.

YET....

The Celtics have some very likable players.  Paul Pierce is a terrific 
player and a joy to watch at times.  Antoine is a unique talent in the 
NBA and brings a tremendous amount to the table.  Walter is a bundle of 
energy and seems to wreak havok everytime he is on the court.  Delk has 
always been a favorite of mine since his UK days (when used properly). 
Bremer shows toughness and poise uncommon in a rookie PG and has a 
bright future.   Battie, while inconsistent, has become more consistent 
and the silly need to trade for Blount was eased by his solid play and 
tough D.   When the playoffs started and the D started to crank up, it 
once again seems as if they have a real chance to do something this 
year.  How can you not root for any Celtics team - never mind a Celtics 
team in the playoffs?  I live and die during the games as I always have 
and for that I will always love the C's...

YET....

Arent they the second coming of the Milwaukee Bucks of the 80s?   A team 
that has some real talent and finishes in the middle or upper middle of 
the pack each year and no one wants to play in the playoffs?  Talent? 
The bucks had Moncrief, Cummings, and Ricky Pierce (one of my all time 
favorites).  
All in all, I understand peoples splits on this.  Its part of a paradox 
of being a Celtics fan right now.  We have all grown up and in some 
cases old in loving the Celts.  Yet, who wants to see Chris Wallace come 
back?   How many people have some misgivings about OB?  Who wishes Vin 
Baker could just disappear from our collective reality?  Who feels the 
breath of fresh air at escaping the Pitino era (or error?) has just been 
erased by the Baker trade?  
I think its an easy time to love the team, yet hope for failure so that 
changes can occur  OR hate the team as currently constituted, yet 
secretly be rooting for another win and another round.  After the glory 
years, we got bad yet made so many mistakes we werent reborn like a 
phoenix.  I dont want to get bad again.  I want to see PP and AW finish 
their careers in Boston and the team to slowly get better each year via 
the draft and carefull culling of free agency.  I just dont see how that 
can be done given the mess we are in, the people making the picks, and 
the people deciding who plays and who doesnt.  Its a big mess and my 
personal fear its going to get much worse before it gets truly better.   
Further, its going to be a long time before the next banner comes to Boston.

So, yes I believe it is entirely possible to love your team and hate 
things about it at the same time.   Hell, some nights I feel like that 
and others I hate my team, yet find myself standing in my living room 
dancing around after a big 3 or blocked shot and so on.  Given the 
times, I think this is far more normal than we generall acknowledge...

Wright, Cecil wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eggcentric@AOL.com [mailto:Eggcentric@AOL.com]
> Sent: May 06, 2003 11:00 AM
> To: Celtics@igtc.com
> Subject: Re: win
>
>
> < But some of the fans here, and you know who you are, exult in our 
> negatives and go into hiding when the team plays well. > - Cecil
>
> I resent the inference and think just the opposite, Cecil.  So I will 
> pettily pursue the thread.
>
> * You can resent it all you like.  That is my thought on how posters such as those whom I am thinking of react.  I'm sorry that you cannot or do not see it.
>
> What I see across the various Celt boards is fan after fan giving up the 
> ghost (not posting) out of utter frustration and disillusionment with our 
> team's style of play, damaging recent transactions, 6th place finish, and 
> future prognosis.
>
> *If that we the case, than those Celtic loyalists to whom you refer below, would have given up for only the reasons you have alluded to.  And we know that is not true.
>
> More disheartening is the mean-spiritedness of so many of the pompous 
> ''Celt loyalists'' who (in the Snoopy poll) picked the Celts to win 50-58 
> games this season. When things turned south, it appears that they, not 
> the dissidents, were the ones whose voices were stilled or at the very 
> least reduced to occasional personal attacks upon those with differing 
> views.  
> *Did you not willingly spar with them?
>
> < I have been called many names by individuals on this list because of 
> my loyalty to this team.  I see nobody defending my right to express 
> my support.> - Cecil
>
> Cecil, except for DForant who you constantly and willingly spar with, 
> I can't remember reading any personal attacks on you. You have been
> precise, unwavering, and intelligent in your concise posts, and far 
> as I can see, well-respected.  Mostly, I appreciate that you have 
> remained a gentleman while others like our part-time CeltsSteve, ired 
> by past disagreements over Pitino, Pierce vs. Walker, cap math, etc. 
> have gone so far as to suggest that a certain dissident just shut up and 
> buy a vibrator. 
> * When I return home later, perhaps I will see if I still have the most recent one from Ray, which apparently nobody seemed to notice.  Maybe you got a chuckle out of it or thought it was particularly clever.  I just hope nobody refers to you in the same manner as he refered to me.  But maybe I am just being my sensitive self.  Dan is not even close to being that crass!
>
> I do not consider myself a dissident.  But I have certainly been grouped 
> as one due to my prolonged dissing of our BT, three-point strategy, and
> AW.  Sensitive Homers (am I allowed to categorize them as such?) like
> Bird and Hironaka have actually stopped posting due to said oppressive 
> and scary (?) dissidents.  More recently, Ryan W (Ubiquitous), CeltsSteve, 
> David Wickerham, Norine, and Art Silva, all Homer/loyalists who have 
> added little input to this list for many months, have regained enough
> chutzpah to return from the sidelines in full metal jackets for the sole 
> purpose of damning certain regular contributors who they have branded 
> anti-Celtic. 
> * Regardless of their posting percentage over the past few years, they too have a right to express their opinions.  This whole notion of camps and categories, is rather juvenile, in an of itself, is it not?
>
> So, Cecil - if this IGTC list must regretfully be divided into two - 
> which faction actually went into hiding?  Was it the DISSENTERS 
> (i.e. the bnoiseb) who continued to post, holding steadfastly to their 
> views, or was it the HOMERS who chose to either sign off or return only 
> long enough to take a few cheap shots?
>
> * Eggy what is the point of this?  Who ran off vs who stayed doesn't mean a damn thing to me.  When I choose to leave this list, will you lump me into that category as well?  If so, you would be less than accurate about my reasons why.
>
> Cecil