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Re: Celtics Mailbag: Mike Gorman Answers more questions



Well stated Mark... but I still don't buy it.

If Red had good players, it's because he drafted well or traded well to get them. He coached the C's for 15(?) or so years in succession. Many good players came and went during that time. Red didn't bail and try and jump to a better situation. He'd just find another player and teach them how to play the game the right way so the C's could win. Sure, Russell was great. But did he have more skill than Chamberlin? That's up for debate. Russell won though because he cared more about the team than his own stats. Don't you think Red had something to do with that? Chamberlins coaches obviously couldn't get him to grasp that strategy.

Also, when you look at Red's teams, he often didn't have 'superstar' players. Many times, the best player on the court was on the other team. But Red knew how to win regardless. It reminds me a lot of this years Pats. How many coaches could win with the roster that Belichick has? Not many. Now conversely, how many coaches could have won with those 90's bulls rosters? How many coaches could win with the current Laker roster. I think probably a large percentage of them.

Jackson hasn't a clue how to do what Red did. How did he do the 2 years that Jordan was playing baseball?? It would be the same for him now if Shaq were not there. Jackson has only had to say two things in his coaching career.

1) "Go ahead Mike, do your thing."
2) "Go ahead Shaq, do your thing."

And he hasn't been hurt by the fact that maybe Michael and Shaq have been able to bend the rules of the game more than any other two players who have ever played.


From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: celtics@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Celtics Mailbag: Mike Gorman Answers more questions
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:46:41 -0500

You know, I don't like Phil Jackson. I think he's an arrogant ass. But the guy can coach.

Has he had to build a team? No. But he never claimed to. He coaches them, and you can't argue with success. Does he have the best players? Sure. But so did Red. He had Russell and Cousy and the rest. It's not like he was taking Hickory High to the mountaintop.

We're all defensive of Red and Jackson's assault on his coaching records, but it's important to separate two things. Red will go down in history as the greatest personnel man in NBA history. He built championship teams in four decades. He's the best, and there isn't a close second.

But it's unfair to dismiss Jackson's accomplishments because he had the best players when Red went to war with Russell - maybe the best ever. Did Red stick around to coach the post-Russell Celtics? Nope.

Jackson does a great job of building his teams around his stars. He always gets the most out of guys like B.J. Armstrong, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Bill Cartwright, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry... Yes, he had Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe, but his teams generally play well together, defend well and really execute well down the stretch. I don't like the guy, but I respect what he has accomplished. He's a great coach.

Mark


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Shawn wrote:

I'll tell you who's not one of the top 5, 10, 15, or even 20 coaches in the league. Phil Jackson. That guy does absolutely nothing. He has been the luckiest coach in the history of the game. He has never once had to build a team or develop players. He just steps into a situation where anyone could win and he takes the credit for it. Jordan and Shaq have carried him to his record... two players who were, (and still are, in the case of Shaq), allowed to bend whatever rule they thought necesarry to be great players.

You want to carry the ball, travel with it, palm it, take 5 steps, push people out of the way to give yourself room to get the shot off Mike? Sure, go ahead, no problem.

You want to step over the line as you shoot free throws, stay in the lane for 6 or 7 seconds at a time, push people out of the way just because you're bigger and you can, push refs without getting tossed Shaq? Why not. The league needs stars, after all.

You thinks Jackson sticks around when Kobe is traded, or leaves as a FA, or ends up in jail.... and Shaq decides to retire? Of course he won't. He'll quit and say the same tired lines he used in Chicago. "I need a break." "I'm mentally tired." The reality of the situation is he realizes he doesn't have a clue how to coach. He wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to get young players to play or how to develop them. He has one skill, and that is developing chemistry on a team and between stars. Although even that is coming into question this year.

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