Re: Isiah Thomas fired

["Dan Forant" <dforant1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Got a good one going here. This Celtic team is not better off in relation to
the EC. Starting with OB, if you're looking to build a Championship team,
they should have started with packing OB off to the unemployment line. Let's
get real. We are building a decent competitive 5* 6*7*8 playoff team. I
think we will get better with DA..............eventually. 45wins with some
lame teams in the East.

DanF


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Shawn Niles'" <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Isiah Thomas fired


> He could bring in Red Auerbach and it wouldn't make this a championship
> team. As I said, there's nothing Ainge could have done to turn this into a
> CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM, THIS SEASON. In my opinion, he could have sped up the
> process of making this a championship team by dumping Obie and finding a
> good deal for Antoine. I say that because I don't believe this team will
> ever win a championship with those two. So the sooner you start the
process
> of significant change, the sooner you reach the destination.
>
> The reason I say I'm not upset with the direction of the team is because
my
> only beef is with the timing. I believe Ainge sees the same things many of
> us see about Obie and Antoine. I believe he'll do something about it. I
wish
> he would have done it this offseason, but I'm content in the belief that
> he'll do it no later than next summer. My satisfaction with the direction
of
> the team stems from that belief-that even though it didn't happen as
quickly
> as I would have liked, I do believe it will happen. And, in the meantime,
> Ainge appears to have had a hell of a draft (although time will tell).
>
> None of that changes the fact that I don't believe the team is any better
> off THIS SEASON in relation to the Eastern Conference.
>
> Mark
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn Niles [mailto:shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:25 PM
> To: Berry, Mark  S; celtics@xxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Isiah Thomas fired
>
> But don't you see how you contradict your own statements? First you say:
>
> "There was nothing Ainge could have done to turn this into a championship
> team. Nothing."
>
> But then you bring up Bird and Dumars firing coaches, hinting that the C's
> would be better off if Ainge had fired Obie. You can't have it both ways.
> Either there was nothing Ainge could have done, and if thats the case then
> you can't complain that other teams made moves and we didn't. Or, you say
> that Ainge firing Obie and dumping Walker would have improved the team.
But
> you can't play both sides of the fence because then your stating that
you're
>
> not upset with the direction of the team doesn't pull a lot of weight.
>
>
> >From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: "'Shawn Niles'" <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>, celtics@xxxxxxxx
> >Subject: RE: Isiah Thomas fired
> >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:15:40 -0400
> >
> >I give up. I come right out and say I'm not upset with the direction of
the
> >team, yet the "way" I say it isn't right. There was nothing Ainge could
> >have
> >done to turn this into a championship team. Nothing. I do think we're
> >spinning our wheels for a season, because I happen to believe nothing
will
> >really change as long as Obie and Antoine are here. By contrast, Bird was
> >willing to take the heat that will come with the timing of the Isiah
firing
> >because he didn't want to waste this season. Dumars was willing to fire a
> >guy with a better resume than Obie, because he felt he had a better
option.
> >It took guts. If I had to guess, and it's an educated guess, I'd say
> >Ainge's
> >first instinct was to fire Obie, but he didn't want to be the guy who
fired
> >a coach coming off two straight playoff appearances. And it would have
been
> >a tough sell. But I'll bet that deep down, Ainge would prefer to have his
> >own guy right now. And he tried all summer to trade Antoine. Ainge sees
the
> >same problems many of us do. Unfortunately, he didn't/couldn't get them
> >corrected this summer. I wish he could have, simply because it would have
> >made the reshaping of this team happen a little faster. But that doesn't
> >mean he won't get them corrected. I believe he will, and that will be
> >another step toward building a championship team.
> >
> >I'll say it again: I'm OPTIMISTIC about the future of the team. I'm just
> >not
> >sold on THIS YEAR. I expect a lot of the same things we saw last year,
and
> >that adds up to a slightly better than .500 team. Someone said the
Celtics
> >were only eight games behind the Pistons. True. And how many games out of
> >the lottery? It works both ways. The Celtics are trying to get better. So
> >are other teams. We'll see how it plays out. But if another season goes
by
> >with Antoine and Pierce dominating the ball, shooting under 40 percent,
> >playing 40-plus minutes a night, Banks ends up taking 400 jump shots
while
> >losing time to Tony Delk and Mike James, while Kedrick, Jumaine, Hunter
and
> >Perkins fail to progress, I think we'll all concede that some significant
> >changes need to be made. My ONLY complaint, is that I think Ainge already
> >knows that. It's a shame to waste a season watching it again.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >From: Shawn Niles [mailto:shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:04 PM
> >To: Berry, Mark  S; celtics@xxxxxxxx
> >Subject: RE: Isiah Thomas fired
> >
> >But the way you say it suggests that you are dissapointed in Danny for
not
> >making moves to turn them into a championship contender NOW. The fact is,
> >there were no moves available that would have done that. So it should be
> >expected that maybe a few other teams might make moves that look better
> >than
> >
> >anything the C's have done, even if it's debateable if those moves are
> >better.
> >Personally, I don't see the team being any worse than last year. Who did
we
> >lose that contributed? No one. And they added a number of players that
> >potentially could add quite a bit. And even if they don't, the C's still
> >haven't lost any ground because the core is still in place. Of course,
that
> >core is only good enough to get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and
maybe
> >the ECF. The real moves that make us a title contender are still a few
> >years
> >
> >away.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >To: 'Shawn Niles' <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>, celtics@xxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: RE: Isiah Thomas fired
> > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:05:35 -0400
> > >
> > >I'm not upset! How many ways can I say that I like the draft picks and
> >the
> > >direction Danny is taking the team? All I said was there were several
> > >Eastern Conference teams putting some distance between themselves and
the
> > >C's-THIS SEASON. I think Ainge is doing things the right way. I just
> >don't
> > >expect a huge difference this season. Not with Obie and Antoine still
> > >around
> > >and no significant roster changes (as I said, Banks will take time).
> > >
> > >"Most of us" may figure the C's are where they should be. But there are
> > >plenty who still see this team on a par with the Eastern Conference's
> >best.
> > >They're not. Not this year.
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >  -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Shawn Niles [mailto:shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 8:45 AM
> > >To: Berry, Mark  S; celtics@xxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: Re: Isiah Thomas fired
> > >
> > >And isn't that wher emost of us figure they should be? When a team is
as
> > >flawed as the C's have been the last few years, you can't change that
> > >overnight. It's going to take a little bit of time. For the life of me
I
> > >can't understand anyone being upset that Danny has not already turned
> >this
> > >team into a championship contender.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >To: "'celtics@xxxxxxxx'" <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> > > >Subject: Isiah Thomas fired
> > > >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:39:00 -0400
> > > >
> > > >I guess we know where Rick Carlisle will end up. It's time to take
the
> > > >Pacers seriously. All that talent, Bird and Walsh running the show
and
> > >now,
> > > >assuming Carlisle is the guy (heck... anyone is an improvement; is
> >Sidney
> > > >Lowe available?), the Pacers should become the third power team in
the
> > > >conference over the next couple of years (along with the Nets and
> > >Pistons).
> > > >
> > > >Some on the list wonder why others aren't more optimistic about the
> > > >Celtics'
> > > >offseason. Here's why: The Nets added Mourning, the Pistons added
> >Darko,
> > > >the
> > > >Magic added Howard, the Pacers dumped Isiah... Those four teams
> >finished
> > > >ahead of the Celts last season and made more significant positive
> >changes
> > > >than the Celts. They increased the gap between us and them.
Meanwhile,
> > > >teams
> > > >like Chicago are closing the gap from behind.
> > > >
> > > >I like the draft and I like Ainge's direction for the team. But with
> >the
> > > >same coach and basically the same players, things aren't going to
> >change
> > > >that much this season. I think we're in for some more ugly basketball
> >and
> > > >some significant roster/coaching changes before things really start
to
> > >get
> > > >better.
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > >
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