Re: Boston Globe - Martins, Shaughnessy

["Dan Forant" <dforant1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Baker has had difficulty learning Celtic defense. Yes anyone would except
Casper the Ghost. There isn't any.

DanF
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eggcentric@AOL.com>
To: <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:35 AM
Subject: Boston Globe - Martins, Shaughnessy


>     < Even though TONY DELK will be the starting point guard,
>     O'Brien said he's not trying to turn him into a pure playmaker.
>     ``We're not trying to do that at all,'' said O'Brien. ``We want him
>     to be a scorer. We don't want him to be a traditional point
>     guard. We have Antoine Walker ... > - Martins
>
>     < And now we're supposed to believe they never planned on
>     having him (BAKER) start?  ''That's correct,'' said coach Jim
>     O'Brien. ''We had a meeting with him at the time of the trade
>     and I told him our starting frontcourt was set, and he was
>     fine with that.'' >  - Shaughnessy
>
> Ordinarily ObBrien is insanely stubborn, but he has lucid moments when
> he is only stupid.
>
>     <''Thank God he didn't come in fat,'' said Papile.> - Shaughnessy
>
> In hollow murmurs died away, you done good, Leo.  Make sure the above
> quote is on your resume as you begin applying for your next job.
>
>     < Walker, who averaged 5.2 assists per game last season, said
>     he'd like to increase that stat this year. ``I'm going to try to be
>     as aggressive as possible,'' he said. ``But I'm trying to stay away
>     from it in the preseason. I don't want to show everything. We
>     have to let our (new) guys learn the (point guard) position. I'm
>     on the court 40-to-42 minutes a game. So I'm going to get
>     15-to-20 shots just being out there. So I'm not worried about
>     that.'' > - Martins
>
> Donbt worry be happy, Toine.  I was wondering why you had so few
> assists (and points) in these preseason games. Now I realize you have
> nobly been dogging it on assists (even against NJ) for a higher
> purpose - to train/coach/allow our new guys to be pass-first point
> guards.  Doesnbt sound like you and Obie are on the same page.  But
> maybe you are.  For as you say, you will get your 15 to 20 shots pg
> (20.3?) even if our favorite Celtic beagle or Anne C. are recruited
> to play la pointe.
>
> Eggy
> --------------------------------------------------
> Baker not cooked: Player, coach OK with lukewarm start
> Celtics Notebook/by Gus Martins
> Wednesday, October 23, 2002
>
> Vin Baker's ponderous preseason start with the Celtics might have
> the 6-foot-11 newcomer thinking a bit anxiously about his
> performance.
>
> However, C's coach Jim O'Brien seems thoroughly at ease.
>
> Baker, who was acquired in July for Kenny Anderson, Vitaly
> Potapenko and Joe Forte, said he has had some difficulties learning the
> C's defenses, but thinks things are getting better every day.
>
> ``It's a very complex team,'' he said. ``There are a lot of difficult
> defensive schemes, ones I haven't seen in my 10 years in this league.
> So it's been very difficult learning them. But I'm getting them down.
> I'm studying them at night. It's going to click on any day.''
>
> Baker has averaged 4.7 points, 4.2 rebounds and 25 minutes in six
> games off the bench. O'Brien said Baker's numbers are much like his
> preseason production last  year in Seattle. For perspective, O'Brien
> said he wasn't happy with the production of either Battie or Potapenko
> last year in preseason.
>
> ``I don't know if (Baker's) struggling as much as (any other) nine-year
> veteran in a new situation,'' O'Brien said. ``I went back and looked at
> Vin's statistics through six games last year and they mirror exactly
> what they are now.
>
> ``Then he went on to average 14.5 points and seven-plus rebounds,'' he
> added. ``So I think you can overdo what kind of season he's going to have
> based on six exhibition games. I'd love to have 14-plus points and
> seven-plus rebounds from Vin Baker. I'd love to have that. I think that
> would be a tremendous addition to our ballclub. So, yes, I think he has
> plenty of good basketball, perhaps great basketball,  ahead of him.''
>
> Delk knows the score
> Even though Tony Delk will be the starting point guard, O'Brien said
> he's not trying to turn him into a pure playmaker.
>
> ``We're not trying to do that at all,'' said O'Brien. ``We want him to be
> a scorer. We don't  want him to be a traditional point guard. We have
> Antoine Walker, who plays a lot of minutes and who handles the
> basketball up there, and because of Antoine, not because of any
> deficiencies we have in our point guards, we try to use Antoine as
> much as possible out there.''
>
> O'Brien said Delk has had three assists for every turnover this
> preseason and he likes that. But the coach said he wants Delk shooting
> a high percentage of 3-pointers this season.
>
> Walker lends helping hand
> Walker, who averaged 5.2 assists per game last season, said he'd like
> to increase that stat this year.
>
> ``I'm going to try to be as aggressive as possible,'' he said. ``But I'm
> trying to stay away from it in the preseason. I don't want to show
> everything. We have to let our (new) guys learn the (point guard)
position.
> I'm on the court 40-to-42 minutes a game.  So I'm going to get 15-to-20
> shots just being out there. So I'm not worried about that.''
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> When will Baker heat things up?
>
> By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist, 10/23/2002
>
> We want to think that the Vin Baker trade was a good trade. We want
> to think he'll be the All-Star forward who torched the Celtics for all
> those years and twice averaged more than 20 points a game in the NBA.
> We want him to succeed now that he's playing for the Green, near his
> Connecticut home.
>
> But we worry that he's going to be Tony Clark in black high-tops.
>
> The Celtics are home tonight against the Dallas Mavericks. They're home
> again Friday against the Washington Wizards. These are the last two
> exhibition games and the only two that'll be played at the New Garden.
> For many Celtic season ticket-holders, this will be their first look at
> Baker, who was acquired in a blockbuster offseason deal that sent
> starting point guard Kenny Anderson to Seattle.
>
> The early line on Baker is not good, and the excuses have been flying.
> He's learning the system. They aren't calling any plays for him. Not
> enough touches. He hurt his ankle and his pinkie. These are only
> exhibition games. He's allergic to Red's cigar. Thomas Hamilton ate
> his homework.
>
> How else to explain the sorry stat line that shows Baker averaging
> 4.7 points and 4.2 rebounds in 19.7 minutes per game? He also has
> been fouling at a Kite-like rate - a whopping 30 personals in six
> games. He has more fouls than points (30-28).
>
> Celtics general manager Chris Wallace has to be a tad nervous about
> this one. We don't have Rick Pitino to kick around anymore, and this
> deal hangs around the neck of Wallace. So far, Chris sounds like Lou
> Gorman trying to explain Jack Clark or Bill Parcells defending
> Marion Butts.
>
> ''It was a bold trade,'' Wallace said after practice yesterday. ''If
> you don't like it, come and blame me.''
>
> ''He played well in the playoffs against San Antonio last year,'' added
> personnel director Leo Papile. ''It's virtually impossible for a guy to
> disappear between May and October. To say he's done is premature.
> He didn't age in dog years over the summer.''
>
> The Celtic brass is well-prepared to defend Baker. They like to point
> out that he came to camp in better shape than he did in recent years
> with Seattle.
>
> ''Thank God he didn't come in fat,'' said Papile. ''Remember, he's a
> rotation guy, not a savior.''
>
> Baker will not be in the starting lineup when the season opens. This
> strikes some as curious. He's a four-time All-Star, makes $12.375
> million this year (part of a four-year commitment of $56 million),
> and the Celtics traded their starting point guard to get him. And now
> we're supposed to believe they never planned on having him start?
>
> ''That's correct,'' said coach Jim O'Brien. ''We had a meeting with him
> at the time of the trade and I told him our starting frontcourt was
> set, and he was fine with that.''
>
> ''I'm not disappointed at all,'' said Baker. ''I'll support my
> teammates when I'm on the bench.''
>
> Baker said he might be trying too hard. Asked about the foul binge, he
> answered, ''I think it's from pressing. I'm anxious, trying to do too
> much too fast. I've just got to relax and play. Being back home and
> all, it's anxiousness. I got to tone it down.
>
> ''It's coming along slower than I thought. I've been a little out of
> synch early, but each and every day I feel much better. I'm the oldest
> guy on the team [31 next month] and I guess I am a slow starter. It's
> a lot of learning. I feel like a rookie on the club. There's a lot of
> very difficult schemes, and it's been difficult learning, but I'm
> getting them down.''
>
> Baker is 6 feet 11 inches and can play power forward or center. At his
> best, he's a beast on the offensive glass, but thus far he has been
> overextending himself in the paint and picking up fouls instead of
> rebounds. He has appeared slow and tentative. He is not yet the player
> the Celtics thought they were getting. He is not even close to what
> they lost in Rodney Rogers. Not yet.
>
> But the Celtics are being patient. O'Brien said he checked Baker's
> preseason stats from recent years, and these slow starts are typical.
>
> In fairness, it is early. This is preseason. None of this will even be
> remembered if Baker returns to his old form. But here in New England we
> are cynical and we worry. Was the Baker deal Thanksdad Gaston's final
> act of flipping off the Celtic fandom?
>
> Wallace says no. He is standing by the big man.
>
> ''I don't get carried away in preseason,'' said the GM. ''He's had his
> moments. He provides us with a scoring option we've not had before. He
> can get the ball in the paint and score.
>
> ''I don't believe he's done.''