Re: baker vs. rogers

["Dan Forant" <dforant1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Baker is the better player. Only thing Baker comes up short in is the 3's.
And we have guy's to bomb away. Baker will show his value to the team
without a doubt. Was he worth what we gave in return, I don't know and no
one else does either...............yet.

DanF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Piotrowski" <markp@edu15.coe.ufl.edu>
To: <Celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:44 AM
Subject: baker vs. rogers


> I know this Baker/Rogers thing has been a dead horse for a while, but
> this comment from CNN/SI's season preview caught my attention:
>
> >Their playoff success last year came because they acquired a quality
> >third scorer, Rodney Rogers, who was able to take some of the heat
> >off Pierce and Walker.
> >
> >Rogers is gone, however, and Vin Baker seems unlikely to fill the void.
>
> The difference between this comment and the criticisms bandied about
> here for most of the summer is that CNN/SI says straight-up that
> Rodney is a better 3rd scorer than Vin Baker.  Nevermind contracts,
> or the cap situation.  Mano-a-mano Rogers is better.
>
> That led me to do some checking/comparisons between Rogers and Baker.
> They have each been in the league since 93-94, 9 years.  I too was
> sad to see Rogers go, but I find CNN/SI's (and some on this lists')
> contention that Baker can't fill Rogers' void considering:
>
> * Rogers has never averaged more pts. than Baker.  In 8 of 9 seasons
> Baker avgs. more, in 2000-01 they both avg. 12.2
>
> * Rogers has never averaged more rebs. than Baker.
>
> * Rogers avgs. more steals per game (1.07 vs. .81 (career)) but fewer
> blocks (.56 vs. 1.12)
>
> * Even over the last 3 years -- which are generally considered to be
> Baker's worst and among Rogers best (97-98 w/ LAC was his best
> statistically); Vin has avg. more points (14.3  to 12.6), and reb
> (6.6 to 4.8) while only avg. 5 more minutes a game.  Their Assists
> (1.5 (baker) to 1.9 (rogers)), Steals (0.5 to 1.1) and blocks are
> almost identical (0.8 to 0.5)
>
> * If you account for the fact that since the Lockout season (98-99)
> Rogers has become a 6th man (starting only 25 games in 4 years),
> Rogers DOES have slightly better per-minute avgs (.48 pts/min vs. .45
> for Baker;  but .182 reb/min vs. .207 for Baker), but games are
> played in 1 game units, not per-minute.
>
> (side note:  Rogers HAS adapted well to coming off the bench.  I
> think a strong arguement can be made that a part of Bakers slump over
> the last 2 years come from the fact that he ceased being a starter
> (of course its chicken and egg -- maybe he ceased being a starter b/c
> of the slump).  After starting 96% of the 515 games he played in from
> 93-2000, he has started  only 52% the last 2 years.  It may be that
> Baker NEEDS to start.  Some players need that to be into the game,
> follow the flow, etc.)
>
> * Career Avgs [note:  outside of the Lockout season each player has
> only played less than76 games (Baker last year 55; Rogers in 95-96,
> 67 games]:
> Baker
> 16.9 pts
> 8.2 reb
> 2.2 asst
> 1.12 blks
> 48.6 FG%
> 35.7 mpg
>
>
> Rogers
> 11.9 pts
> 4.6 reb
> 2.1 ast
> .56 blks
> 46.3 FG %
> 26.5 mpg
>
>
>
> I know that statistics can be deceiving and that none of this says
> anything about chemistry, but I think its just foolish to suggest
> that Rogers is head-and-shoulders a better player than even the Vin
> Baker of the last 3 years.  Yes Vin has not been the player he was in
> Milwaukee, but he's not Bret Szabo for heaven's sake!
>
> I might not have done the trade, but would have definitely done it if
> we could have also retained Rogers.   But overall I think it makes
> our team better, not worse.  We'll see of course, but I'm pumped
> about the upcoming season
>
> mark piotrowski
> gainesville, fl