Re: Answering Josh and calling out Chris Wallace (long)

["Berry, Mark S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>]

I'd call you a coward, Paul, but then you went and tangled with me. As if I
haven't wasted enough time thinking about the Celtics today. Anyway, here
goes...

I think you're wrong about Rodney Rogers. I won't pretend to have seen him
play that much this season, but just looking at his stats... He's averaging
12.4 points on 46.6 percent shooting. He was getting about 11 shots a game
and averaging 2.7 3-point attempts per game. So 25 percent of his shots come
from 3-point range. Antoine is around 33 percent. He averages five field
goals a game and one 3-pointer a game. So four of his five baskets come from
2-point territory. He's averaging 4.7 rebounds in 24 minutes per game, which
isn't that far off of Antoine's pace. Is Rogers a great rebounder? No, but
he's a better rebounder than Eric Williams. The reason I think he'd look
good playing alongside Antoine is because one of them would have to be
guarded by a small forward, and whoever that is would have a major size and
strength advantage. I have seen Rodney Rogers enough to know that if he has
a smaller man on him, he can post him up. As for defense... this team does
it with team defense. If Antoine can stay on the floor 42 minutes a night
despite his defensive deficiencies, Rogers can get 24 minutes. 

As for Delk, that 40 percent streak shooting, no pass one-dimensional
shooting guard-at least he has one dimension. What does Eric Williams bring
to the table? What, other than hustle, does Strick bring to the table? As
for 40 percent shooting... Antoine should be so lucky.

As for Vitaly... his scoring numbers, starting with his first season in
Cleveland: 5.8, 7.1, 8.4/10.0 (before/after the trade), 9.2, 7.5, 4.9. Seems
to me the Celtics traded for a guy who was getting better every year and now
they have a guy getting worse every year. He's not old, he's not injured,
so... what? Why is he getting worse? Kenny, in the six seasons before the
season he was traded to Boston, never averaged under 15.2 points or 7.1
assists. In his Boston career he has averaged, in order, 12.1, 14, 7.5, 9.5
points per game and 5.7, 5.1, 4.1, 5.2 assists per game. He's 31 years old
and you can make a pretty good argument that his years in Boston should have
been the prime years of his career. Fortson... yep, I was completely down on
fortson and still think he's a one-trick pony. But that one-trick pony has
managed to average 11 points and 12 rebounds per game in his two full
seasons before and after his year in Boston, where he put up 7.6 points and
6.7 rebounds. Maybe I was wrong about the guy. I've been wrong about other
guys. My point is this... if Joe Johnson turns out to be great, and if
Rogers and Delk get shuffled to the sideline in Boston, eventually we're
going to have to look at all the evidence piling up and determine if maybe
these captains aren't as good as we think. Great players are supposed to
make the players around them better, right? What does it say when everyone
around them actually plays worse than they do elsewhere? 

I'm not ready to make any conclusions yet, Paul. I still think JJ will
settle in to comfortable mode pretty soon, and I like to think Rogers and
Delk will play the same way they have throughout their careers-these aren't
one-year wonders. But if those things don't happen, then I think the finger
starts to point at the captains. We've changed coaches. We've changed
complementary players. The constants are Pierce and Walker. If no one else
can perform with these guys, even guys with proven NBA resumes like Rogers
and Delk, then there's a problem. Your best players are supposed to make
other guys better, aren't they?

Mark 


--- --- ---

Man...you're on fire today Mark. I'm not about to tangle with you. I'd just
get the crap kicked out of me. Yes, I'm a coward. What's it to ya? So I'm
not about to describe Rodney Rogers as a muscular tub of goo who no longer
has an inside game, doesn't get to the line, isn't close to being the
rebounder that this team needs to help, and is never, ever going to get his
11 shots in 25 mins. because he's not going to be able to stay on the floor
that long because he's not a good defender or rebounder, and I'm not going
to mention the 40% streak shooting, no pass, one-dimensional, shooting
guard - no he's not a point guard. And I'm not about to get you to seriously
consider that when I, and perhaps others although I won't speak for them,
talk about the "captains" getting help I'm not talking about two more
scrubs. Not today. But what I really want to ask about is this:

> 2. If Josh is right and JJ continues his strong play in Phoenix, then
> it's time to break up Pierce and Walker. Because if that happens, then you
> just add JJ to the long list of guys-Vitaly,

Now, it's not like Vitaly was any good before he got here. I mean, isn't
Vitaly fully capable of sucking on his own? I'll leave Kenny alone
because...just because...but

>Fortson, etc.-who
> have come to Boston and shriveled in the shadow of the two "stars."

Weren't you complaining bitterly about Fortson's inability to play defense
when he was here and you agreed that he couldn't stay on the floor because
he was a hideous defender, especially in Pitino's "see the ball, see your
man, now switch and help and jump out and switch, crap I'm on a point guard,
where's the ball again" defense?

One more thing.

> They have to. Get Eric Williams out of the rotation. If Rodney Rogers
wastes
> away on the bench while Eric Williams continues to play (and the Celts
> continue to get brutalized on the boards) then O'Brien is a bigger fool
than
> he showed at Dayton.

Rodney Rogers will not help this team on the boards. Pretend I didn't say
that.