Re: There's no reasoning with you Cecil and Noah

["Cecil Wright" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Lee" <rlee_at_channing@yahoo.com>
To: <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: There's no reasoning with you Cecil and Noah


> I ramble?  You've written some rather lengthy boring
> dissertations in the past that could fill up a
> library.
>
> None of my posts are objective?  So I guess my
> description of the Washington game was rather one
> sided and subjective huh?  Yeah I really trashed Toine
> in that post by saying it was his best game ever.  Or
> maybe I wasn't giving the Washington players enough
> credit because I was so one tracked.  I mean Laetner
> did light us up for 30.
>

Ryan, you said it was possibly his best game ever.  Not trying to incite
you, but there is a difference.


>   Most of my Walker posts haven't been based on just
> one game.  I didn't just wake up one day and decide to
> dislike the guy.  I watched his game stagnate for 5
> years so excuse me if I have to vent.  Noah, you being
> a "reasonable" person can just look at the rest of the
> league.  Every other teams star player does what
> they're supposed to do.
> Abdur Raheem stays on the blocks and gets rebounds.
> Garnett keeps his game inside the 3 point line.  As
> does Duncan and Webber.  I'm sure all of these
> mentioned players can hit the 3 BUT YOU DON'T SEE THEM
> TAKING 3s.  They play to their strengths and because
> of that they are all-stars.  So be objective Noah and
> tell me why Toine is not in that same class.
>

Whether it is right or wrong, he is doing what the coach says he wants him
to do.  He was inside so much against the Wiz because Nesby drew him and
Toine has a distinct size advantage in that matchup.

> Furthermore if you would actually read the posts in
> its entirety instead of going off on small bits of it,
> you would see I do explain myself and not just spit
> out random subjective statements.  For instance,
> Walker is stupid.  I didn't just say he was stupid.  I
> said he was stupid because he doesn't make the best of
> his skills.  He uses his speed to draw defenders but
> doesn't kick the ball out.

With all due respect, where do his assists come from then?

He takes way too many 3s
> when he being the best rebounder should be in the
> blocks.  Now how stupid is that?

Can this in any way be attributed to coaching?

Noah do you happen to
> read only the first sentence of every paragraph?  Is
> that why you don't catch my drift?  I mean if you're
> only reading every other sentence of mine, I can see
> how I don't make sense.
>
> Another thing, every time we've traded messages, you
> seem to include the entire list.  Is this some kind of
> ego thing to prove that you are smartest one here?  If
> this is a pissing match, then you win.  I don't have
> the time or the patience to argue stupid issues.  And
> another thing, why do half you people (YOU and CECIL
> especially) mention list member's names.  I'm here
> minding my own business and you two are dropping names
> (specifically mine) left and right.

Please show me your example where I mentioned your name, or the others that
you are alluding to, after the Washington game.  If I did that, I apologize.

All I did was
> post about the Washington game where I even said good
> things about Toine and Cecil is talking trash about
> other list members.  What gives guys?  Are you two the
> owners of this list?  What, if anyone trashes your
> idol Antoine Walker, you regulate the list by starting
> flaming threads that last for several digests?  The
> funny thing was that in my initial post about the
> Washington game, I didn't even trash Walker but yet
> you guys are on my case.

Wasn't it you who concluded in your post that:

And no I am still not a Walker fan, I mean it is only
one game.

I don't consider that to be a glowing endorcement.

Why don't you guys make
> opinions on players and not on members of the list?
> Or if you have something to say to a member
> specifically, stop including the entire list so that
> some of us can read about Celtic issues and not about
> your stupid ego trips.
>
> R

Ryan, a while back you sent a post to Dan Forant which was sent to this
list.  In it, you called me every name in the book.  How can you, after
having done that, criticize anyone else?  In my post about Celtic Fans, I
did not mention you or anyone else by name.  I asked a question and got alot
of good response because of a question which was asked of me by a friend
here.  I do not capitalize my words for emphasis because I do not need to do
that to make a point.  This is should be about basketball.  I did not turn
it into anything else and try very hard not to.

But I understand why longtime members like Dorine for example don't post too
much anymore...and why good folks like Bill Cooper have disappeared.  The
thrill of being a Celtic fan and enjoying the comments of the listmates
sometimes is negated by the personal snide remarks like the ones you are
making in this post.  Everyone who knows me understands how into this, and
other sports, I am.  I do not claim to have a greater understanding of
basketball than anyone on this list.  I appreciate the fact that we all have
differences of opinion.  But please stop insinuating that I am looking for a
fight with you.  That is not the case.

Cecil




> --- Noah Evans <ishbak@forest.cwru.edu> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:30:39AM -0800, Ryan Lee
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I may namecall on Walker but at least I
> > > have some sound logic to backup what I say.
> >
> > The reason people take issue with your views is that
> > you don't base
> > your arguments on objective criteria.
> >
> > Most of your arguments against Walker's ability as a
> > player amount to
> > amateur psychology about Walker's (lack of)
> > intelligence and evil
> > intent.
> >
> > If people disagree with you, you don't argue against
> > their points you
> > argue against the individual. Since most of your
> > arguments come from
> > subjective impressions(Walker's game is ugly, Walker
> > is stupid, Walker
> > is evil) you argue against other people by
> > questioning their
> > intelligence. Anyone who disagrees with you must
> > have "never played
> > basketball" or "never seen a game".
> >
> > Also (this is unfair but might be worth mentioning)
> > your posts are
> > usually one long rambling paragraph. This makes your
> > arguments seem
> > like a stream of consciousness diatribe.
> >
> > If you want people to take your views seriously
> > present your views in
> > a more rational way.
> >
> > If you'd like to make subjective arguments about
> > Walker's abilities,
> > develop those arguments rather than just presenting
> > them as a one
> > sentence assertion(i.e. "Walker's game is ugly, if
> > you watched a game
> > you'd know").
> >
> > Noah
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com