Re: Pitino's Problems?

[bird <birdwl@earthlink.net>]

> From: Kestutis.Kveraga@dartmouth.edu (Kestutis Kveraga)
>
> --- You wrote:
> Was there anyone else on the market who could've done a better job?
> --- end of quote ---
>
> Uh, yeah, just about anybody else.

Really?  I'm not as sure about that.  Sure, Pitino's career was more on 
the downer side than anything positive, but he wasn't a complete screw up,
  nor was his (admittedly) huge ego the only reason he failed.  He had his 
share of bad luck (and let's face it, his luck was our luck while he was 
in charge), because the little balls that bounce didn't really bounce our 
way before his first C's draft.

> Maybe next time we should criticize a coach/GM/president BEFORE he's 
> started
> his job.

Well, I see what you're saying, (namely, that now is precisely the time to 
offer a legitimate, informed opinion about how he did, after his term is 
complete), and that's true, but it doesn't negate the fact that 
professional basketball management is about taking some risks, and some 
don't pan out.  Some of Pitino's risks had a legit chance of working, but 
didn't.  In hindsight, it's much easy to make those kind of decisions.  At 
the time, there's a lot more variables to consider; it's harder.  In other 
words, a judgement of degree of difficulty must mitigate the final 
conclusion.  And there was no shortage of people complaining, during 
Pitino's tenure, about his next mistake, the one he hadn't made yet.

> Because he set my team back four years, at least, not counting the 
> contracts
> that are going to be strangling the Celtics for another 2-3 years or more.
> Because he's an egomaniac snake-oil salesman who collected 20+ million 
> dollars
> for driving the franchise into the ground, and then basically disavowed 
> any
> responsibility for it. Because...oh, don't get me started.

He didn't set the team back -- you act like he ran the team into the 
ground.  He improved the team's record, in fact.  Not as much as we would'
ve liked, but at least he won more games.  Before he hit a period where 
there was clearly _no_ improvement, and the team stopping winning the game 
they could've won earlier.  Ok, you're absolutely right when you say he 
handicapped the team's success even after he left due to the mis-signings,
  and trades that result in cap hindrances (Kenny, EWilliams, Wallah, ...), 
but he did a couple of good things: drafting Pierce, ... OK, I'm having 
trouble coming up with many more but there was that first season where he 
actually helped coach the team to _win_ instead of 
roll-over-and-play-pansy like ML Carr did.  I think you can underestimate 
the importance of attitude.  Of course, when the attitude soured, and he 
couldn't squeeze any more out of the team, he had to go.  Other good 
things?  Finding Griffin and Blount?  I don't know, like I said: short on 
the good things, definitely.

> ML is a coaching farce who didn't pretend to be anything else. Pitino is 
> a
> coaching farce who casts himself as a basketball genius and a motivational
> guru. ML at least pulled off the Montross for the pick-that-became-Walker
> trade. Name one Pitino trade that comes even close to that.

All right, I admit that this just seems to be the one really good thing 
Pitino did, and it wasn't a trade, but he did draft Pierce.  Of course, it 
was kind of a no-brainer, but he still deserves some credit.  Especially 
if you can say a good thing about Coach ML.  It's also true that Pitino 
gets spun as a basketball guru (the way EWilliams is a "great defensive 
specialist" and Travis Knight is a "weight room experience away") in a way 
that's not always warranted, but he also coached a number of FInal Four 
teams.  His NBA career has some limited success with the Knicks, and a 
less-than-successful run with the C's.  Just based on his college record 
alone, he's no coaching "farce" they way, say, you'd describe ML Carr.  As 
a general manager, maybe you could, though.  The "farce" of trading 
Fortson to Toronto for Alvin Williams and then not (and then having 
Williams turn into a good point guard) is pretty farcical but if you tell 
me you liked that trade, you'd be one of only about a handful of people 
who did, and one of them was apparently Pitino.  Turns out that would have 
been a good one.  (Of course, if he negated the trade because of fan/media 
pressure as might have happened, that in itself is even more farcical.)

(OK, you could say that some Pitino-esque coaching decisions were strange 
and somewhat stupid: mass substitutions, headless chicken outbreak, et al.
, but they had worked before (in college).  Maybe one reason Pitino failed 
was that he never could figure which parts of his system to change.  Or, 
that he got players ill-suited for his system.  Or that he was trying to 
be an NBA coach, even.  But he still coached the team to more wins, and 
hey, for a while there it looked like it might work.)

It wasn't his huge ego that caused us to miss out on Duncan, but maybe it 
was the reason we didn't take McGrady.  That's what I'm talking about.  
Pitino wasn't the savior nor was he the anti-christ.  You make some good 
points as always, Kestas, but I can't help thinking you really hate the 
guy (I mean that metaphorically, you "hate" his performance, you know), 
and maybe you have less cause than you think.  Then again, there's lot's 
to dislike right now: we could have kept Griffin, maybe Stith (if we 
wanted to, or Carr or another free agent) if we weren't saddled with 
McCarty and EWilliams).  Pitino could've used a manager above him, like a 
real GM (like Wallace, even) or President with the power to say "no".  And 
that probably has a lot to do with his watermelon-sized ego.  In hindsight,
  I would've liked Larry Brown, too, but at the time a guy who was taking 
teams and always improving their success like Brown looked good, too.

I agree that Pitino failed.  He did decidedly worse than good.  I just can'
t abide it when ML Carr is measured in a more favorable light, because 
that just doesn't seem right at all.  One of them "ran the franchise into 
the ground" (on orders, because of ineptitude, whatever), and the other 
hovered them to a "mediocre: more bad than good" plateau (and hung a few 
cap anchors around the team's neck, and grabbed the eighth-best scorer in 
the league last year, too).  Neither was very good; one much worse than 
the other.

(The Celtic "Tird",
  Celticus "tirdius")