Re: Re: Walker's merits (was Walker vs Pierce; my 2 cents)

["Jaime S Castillo, Jr." <jaimsite@edsamail.com.ph>]

Correct!  For me Walker is an untouchable...but could change if they would offer a Webber or a Rasheed Wallace.  Otherwise, I'd let him retire as a celtic...

owner-celtics@igtc.com wrote:

>
>If Walker played for Riley.  He'd be a dominant all-star by now (sad, but
>true).  He is a unique talent, and if we lose him, I believe he'll come
>back to haunt us.  He now has back to back games of 20+ points and 15+
>rebounds. Why are so amny Celtic fans so anxious to run him out of town?
>
>****dave
>
>
>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Alexander Wang wrote:
>
>> At 06:02 AM 12/21/00 -0800, Thomas Murphy wrote:
>> >Thanks for the kind words of welcome Josh and Alex (and Joe too previously).
>> >
>> >I'll restrict my comments to the point touched on by both of your
>> >statements - the value of Walker's ball-handling and passing skills. You
>> >both make a set of cogent points, the value of which is not lost on me.
>> >
>> >Given that however, I believe that the question remains: does Walker's
>> >merits as a passer outweigh his debits as a defender? This is most likely a
>> >judgment call where reasonable people can disagree. You two seem to feel
>> >that Walker's passing abilities translate into a much more efficient
>> >offense - so much more efficient that it negates whatever defensive
>> >liabilities he may have. I see it the other way 'round.'
>> 
>> Good post Tom. The main discrepancy I see in your argument is that you use
>> backward-looking measures to evaluate Walker's potential on offense against
>> forward-looking measures to evaluate Pierce. That is, you say that the
>> offense has been mediocre in the past 4 years, which means that Antoine's
>> passing doesn't help the offense. But then you essentially absolve Pierce
>> of his defensive shortcomings because you can visualize him becoming a
>> better defender in the future. 
>> 
>> I believe that Josh and I are evaluating Walker (and Pierce) in a
>> forward-looking manner when we're comparing them. Walker has not been a
>> consistently great playmaker in the past four years. Similarly, Pierce has
>> not been a consistently good defender so far in his career. However, when I
>> am evaluating Walker's merits as a passer, I am projecting forward based on
>> the talent that you see when he's playing smart. In the same way I agree
>> that we can project forward based on limited stretches where Pierce has
>> shown the potential to be an excellent defender.
>> 
>> Walker goes through stretches where his passing stats are unreal for a
>> power forward. Just subjectively, I think the offense usually looks quite
>> good when Walker is passing well. Now you are right that his assists come
>> at the expense of the point guard to some degree. But having everything
>> come in one package -- the scoring, rebounding, and assists -- is far more
>> valuable than having them come in three one-dimensional players. For
>> instance, if we really rely on Walker to run the offense instead of
>> Anderson, we can now play Randy Brown to defend the opposing point guard.
>> Of course Randy Brown is truly a backup level talent so this isn't the real
>> extent of the gain. But basically you can now play a defensive oriented
>> shooter instead of a point guard, like Chicago used to do when Pippen ran
>> the offense, which improves the team defense. 
>> 
>> I think one key aspect is whether you believe that Walker can improve his
>> body or not. There's a reason that Pitino harps on that, because it could
>> make him a dominant player on offense, and drastically improve his defense
>> also. If he can do that, the skills that he has in a 6'9" body would make
>> him a top 5 player in the league.
>> 
>> You can still go both ways on this because I do think that they both have
>> the potential to be exceptional players. I have a harder time to imagine
>> Pierce dominating from the shooting guard position the way I think that
>> Antoine can -- Pierce is just not a Jordan level talent by any stretch. But
>> he's a multitalented player. He can score from inside and out, gets to the
>> line, rebounds well for his position, is improving as a passer, and has the
>> potential to be an excellent defender.
>> 
>> Alex  
>> 
>> 
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>	  Dave Wickerham
>	  aw623@freenet.buffalo.edu
>	  Saratoga Springs, NY
>
>
>

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