Re: Walker's merits (was Walker vs Pierce; my 2 cents)

["Cecil Wright" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>]

Hi Tom...just a couple of points.  Walker's D is no worse than Kenny or Paul
at times.  And you also omitted a terribly important category when
discussing Toine, rebounding and starting the break.

His assists should in no way be taken to imply that they are at the expense
of our PG cause our PGs have been incapable of getting them for whatever the
reason.  Toine would have had a few more triple doubles had the likes of VP
and Battie held on to a few nice passes which he has given them.

Welcome back.

Cecil





----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Murphy" <tfmiii@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Celtic list" <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 6:02 AM
Subject: Walker's merits (was Walker vs Pierce; my 2 cents)


> Thanks for the kind words of welcome Josh and Alex (and Joe too
previously).
>
> I'll restrict my comments to the point touched on by both of your
> statements - the value of Walker's ball-handling and passing skills. You
> both make a set of cogent points, the value of which is not lost on me.
>
> Given that however, I believe that the question remains: does Walker's
> merits as a passer outweigh his debits as a defender? This is most likely
a
> judgment call where reasonable people can disagree. You two seem to feel
> that Walker's passing abilities translate into a much more efficient
> offense - so much more efficient that it negates whatever defensive
> liabilities he may have. I see it the other way 'round.
>
> I'll grant you that Walker is more gifted than your average power forward
or
> even small forward at passing the ball. He has put up nice numbers on
> occasion, but then we must remember that the offense essentially runs
> through Walker as well. In most ways he is already the point forward of
the
> team - he simply doesn't bring the ball up court every time (although he
> does do this often enough). Has this arrangement really produced a more
> efficient offense?
>
> Some players can make very ordinary-looking passes that actually enhance a
> team's offense quite significantly. I guess Stockton is the exemplar of
this
> type of passer. Some players make really flashy or difficult passes but
> overall they have far less positive impact on the efficiency of the
offense.
> At times Jason Williams has seemed ready to devolve into this. (Of course
> some players manage to do both, that is be both efficient and flashy -
Bird
> would exemplify this category).
>
> I think the key difference between efficiency and merely 'flashy' is the
> judgment exercised by the passer and as far as I can tell, despite
> improvement, Walker has not progressed to the point where his passing more
> than marginally enhances the efficiency of the team offense. That is not
to
> say he won't put up impressive numbers (for a power forward) from time to
> time. What I am saying is that these numbers obscure the fact that Walker
> achieves these numbers - numbers that an average NBA PG could attain - at
> the expense of opportunities for assists at the point guard position. In
> other words, as I interpret them, these numbers are not *in addition* to
> whatever the point guard might normally attain but rather *instead* of
what
> the PG might be expected to attain (at least as the offense is currently
> structured).
>
>                    00-01     99-00    98-99    97-98      96-97
> Anderson    4.1apg    5.1apg    5.7apg   6.25apg*  7.1apg**
> Walker       4.2apg     3.7apg    3.1apg  3.3apg     3.2apg
> totals            8.3            8.8        8.8        9.55        10.3
>
> *only including 16 games w/Celtics (rest of year w/Portland - 5.4 apg)
> **Anderson with Portland entire year
>
> Anderson's assist totals seem to mirror his marginalization from the
offense
> whereas Walker's increasing totals seem to mirror his increasing dominance
> of the offense not only in terms of shot attempts but also in
ball-handling
> and the triggering of the offense. Of course one needs to attach caveats -
> Anderson's injuries this year, Walker's ball-handling duties during
Billups'
> brief reign as PG etc. But overall I think you can see that - at best! -
> Walker's passing has not contributed additional offense so much as merely
> shifted where the offense originates.
>
> As far as making his teammates *better* on offense, I think that the
> mediocre results of the last four years exposes that fallacy. Boston has
not
> been an offensive powerhouse - rather we seem to be caught up in the same
> trend towards isolation and one-on-five offense that currently plagues
> nearly the entire league.
>
> The other side of the coin in this assessment is whether you think Walker
is
> really that terrible of an defensive liability. Even if you are convinced
by
> my assessment above you would be well within your rights to dissent with
my
> overall conclusions if you feel that the value of Walker's passing
skills -
> even if overrated - still outweigh any defensive deficiencies he may have.
> Defense is notoriously difficult to assess, particularly in a system as
> convoluted as the Poultrino Press (tm). (Of course one must keep in mind
> that Pitino has consistently pointed to his players' defensive
> deficiencies - Walker's in particular - in defending his press. This may
be
> just so much sPintino BS, but it is something to be considered). One must
be
> careful not to confuse defensive ability with athletic ability but one
must
> also beware confusing effort with results. I could work just as hard as
any
> NBA player and not obtain results due to my lack of athletic ability (and
> height). In the past Walker has not exhibited much defensive desire. Given
> Bentz' comments on Walker's effort in Charlotte that may have recently
> changed, but the results don't seem to have changed much.
>
> Although hefty, Walker is consistently overmatched and physically
dominated
> by skilled PFs. He also lacks the quickness and footspeed to either strip
> the ball or draw charges from PFs - also reasons why Pitino does not have
> him cover less physical shooting forwards. As I see it, these problems
> distort the entire defense (at least Pitino has allowed them to) because
> *every one* of Walker's teammates must be ready to compensate for his
> defensive deficiencies - whether it be in terms of match-ups (the center
> covering physical PFs and therefore getting into foul trouble) or
> double-teaming/switching (again leading to foul trouble, mis-matches, and
> dunk-a-ramas). These special measures taken to protect Walker defensively
> and keep him out of foul trouble are at least partly indicative of the
> seriousness of Walker's defensive deficiencies.
>
> Granted, there are going to be players on the opposition who deserve
special
> attention. This is accepted. But when we discuss Walker's liabilities on
> defense we go beyond this truism because his teammates must attempt to
> compensate for him - dramatically, as noted above - in *every game*. Not
> just the game against Karl Malone or Tim Duncan, but even games against
> Othella Harrington or Dale Davis. The need to cope with the opposition
> player of note *in addition* to Walker's man places that much more stress
on
> the defense of a team that is not composed of world-beaters on D as it is.
>
> Sure, Bird was not a demon on D either, but as he himself said, he could
at
> least move his feet fast enough to force his man into either Parish or
> McHale, i.e. keep is man in front of him either to the left or right. In
> other words, Bird didn't *typically* require the type of measures
discussed
> above with regard to Walker - and Bird was a bit more special on the
> offensive end as well. Not that Walker has to be compared to Bird on
> offense, but the fact is that Walker doesn't even compare to Bird on
> *defense*!!
>
> When I watch Pierce I see a player who CAN hold his own on D. Add to that
> the fact that Pierce seems to be a natural shooter whereas Walker simply
is
> not, and that Pierce is young and hence can be expected to mature into an
> even better player who makes better decisions and I think the case is
> hands-down in favor of retaining Pierce whether or not Walker is dealt.
Now
> as to whether or not Pierce is currently motivated by Coach P, it is a
valid
> point to suggest that Walker may be suffering from the same lack of
> motivation. But Pierce has at least demonstrated that he *can* play D when
> motivated - Walker has never done so to my knowledge. So even if both
> players are currently demotivated, one cannot argue that when properly
> motivated Walker's defensive ability would rival Pierce's - this is simply
a
> fallacious argument. Defense is (at least) half of the game, even if we
have
> precious little means of measuring it. Hence to my mind Walker remains a
> seriously incomplete player.
>
> Cheers -TomM
>