Re: Early returns

[Way Of The Ray <wayray@ix.netcom.com>]

kasper nine wrote:
> 
> "sometimes you have to give up something to get
> something better in return?"  right. i've heard that
> before...but then ask yourself, who's gonna take a
> small forward with--as you put it--a "skyrocketing
> contract" and give us something BETTER?  

If Williams plays well, the amount of concern expressed towards
his expanding contract will be diminished.  

what, a
> starting big man? a starting point? "glut" and "small
> forward" go hand-in-hand in this league...the swingman
> is not exactly the most coveted need, and with
> williams' contract, i think he'll be a tough trade...

Not if he plays well and don't negate the possibility
of draft choices being packaged. Williams, cap fodder, the Denver pick
and a Celtics pick should bring something good back in return.

i
> love that guy, i swear he has the most underrated game
> in the nba...he gives us an element of aggression
> offensively that we sorely lack...
> 
> also...'toine starting at small forward doesn't negate
> eric williams' value to the team...he is a tremendous
> asset off the bench...remember spree for the knicks
> last year? or armstrong for the magic? he can still
> log significant minutes (ie, 25-29) off the bench
> whether 'toine starts at the 3 or not...

The C's are not a complete team. There is vast room for improvement.
Something of value must go to receive something in return. It's nice
to have good backups, but you win titles with strong starters. Solidify
the starting lineup and then worry about backups. Use the backup types
and draft choices to acquire the starters you need ala Portland and 
Houston with Pippen and Francis.

> finally, i don't equate "take it to the bank," your
> initial statement, with "merit introspection as far as
> possible deals."

It's a quanta of varying possibilities as applied to the group of
players rather than a stronger response concerning a single individual
Ray.
 
> peace, -K9
> 
> --- Way Of The Ray <wayray@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > kasper nine wrote:
> > >
> > > it appears as though you think virtually every
> > celtic
> > > is going to be traded...
> >
> > Untrue. However, guys like Kenny, Williams, and Pot
> > with large contracts
> > already or soon to be merit introspection as far as
> > possible
> > deals. Also, Calbert Cheaney, because of past Pitino
> > practices.
> >
> > i'd have to disagree with you
> > > on this one...sure, there may be some trades this
> > > year--you never know with pitino--but i'm not
> > thinking
> > > wholesale...been there, done that, now it's time
> > to
> > > settle down a bit..."take it to the bank" that
> > eric
> > > williams is being showcased?  why?
> >
> > Why? Because his contract explodes upwards and
> > Walker should be at
> > small forward, and the C's are by no means a
> > complete product.
> >
> >  if he can help
> > > this team, and that's what he's doing out there,
> > why
> > > wouldn't we keep him? who else can get to the line
> > > like that?  just some thoughts...peace, -K9
> >
> > Sometimes you have to give up something to get
> > something better
> > in return.
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> > > --- Way Of The Ray <wayray@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > > > Subject: Early returns
> > > > > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:48:47 -0800
> > > > > From: peter delevett <pdelevett@amcity.com>
> > > > > To: Celtics <Celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > I know we've only had 2 preseason games and
> > that
> > > > this is therefore a very
> > > > > premature message, but I just wanted to share
> > some
> > > > thoughts and elicit ideas
> > > > > from others about who has thusfar earned the
> > right
> > > > to play, and where they should.
> > > > >
> > > > > Walker: Is still shooting like crap. Doesn't
> > seem
> > > > to have changed his approach
> > > > > one bit, which is troubling when this is
> > > > supposedly his make-or-break season.
> > > > > I'm totally confused why Pitino insists on
> > playing
> > > > him at PF. Pitino's already
> > > > > hinted about stripping him of the captain's
> > title.
> > > >
> > > > He was also conversing with the officials last
> > game.
> > > > Old habits never
> > > > die.
> > > > Pitino is a hard one to figure. There's a fine
> > line
> > > > between genius and
> > > > insanity.
> > > >
> > > >  > Fortson: Rebounding machine, and also has a
> > great
> > > > attitude. Deserves
> > > > minutes
> > > > > if for no other reasons. He's also hitting his
> > > > free throws. Questions about
> > > > > defensive ability (not desire) may hold his
> > > > minutes down.
> > > >
> > > > Has a real difficult time getting his shot off.
> > The
> > > > C's need a big man
> > > > instructor
> > > > for their frontcourt.
> > > >
> > > > > Battie: Ray and Peter May keep raving about
> > him.
> > > > Can he be effective at center
> > > > > alongside Fortson?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Battie is a drifter. You have to start him and
> > give
> > > > him a few looks
> > > > every now
> > > > and then to keep him effective. Much better if
> > > > teamed with a bulky type
> > > > like
> > > > Fortson or Pot rather than Walker. Still needs
> > to
> > > > hit the weights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Pierce: For a guy who has been "lost" in his
> > first
> > > > two exhibition games, he
> > > > > shot the ball awfully well against Atlanta and
> > > > also had 3 blocks. Would like
> > > > > to see him hike that steals number again. I'm
> > not
> > > > worry worried about Pierce,
> > > > > only where he plays, and considering our
> > dearth of
> > > > other alternatives at
> > > > > shooting guard I peg him for that spot.
> > > >
> > > > Pierce always plays within the flow of the game.
> > He
> > > > should see the ball
> > > > more
> > > > than Walker, since he's a more proficient
> > shooter.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Eric Williams: Has gotten consistent raves. I
> > > > still like him as a bench scorer
> > > > > rather than a starter; he'll get plenty of
> > minutes
> > > > if he keeps this up.
> > > >
> > > > Eric is being showcased - take it to the
> > bank....
> > > > Having said that, the
> > > > new rules
> > > > seem to particularly benefit someone with his
> > first
> > > > step quickness and
> > > > slashing
> > > > ability. If he only could translate those skills
> > to
> > > > the defensive end.
> > > > You can already chalk Williams up as a Pitino
> > > > reclamation project
> > > > success.
> > > > Since Pitino averages 2.5 of these a year, who
> > will
> > > > the other 1.5 be?
> > > >
> > > > > Kenny: Statistically, there's nothing to
> > knock.
> > > > Complaints about not pushing
> > > > > the ball still linger. Would Pitino actually
> > bench
> > > > or trade him in favor of a
> > > > > guy who can't shoot but will defend and push?
> > > >
> > > > He's being showcased too - He will eventually be
> > > > traded. Playing better
> > > > only
> > > > brings that day of atonement closer...
> > > >
> > > > > Turner: Nothing but good things so far, but
> > can a
> > > > kid who can't shoot from
> > > > > beyond 8-10 feet start in the NBA?
> > > >
> > > > Sure, because he penetrates, ballhawks, knows
> > > > Pitino's system, and
> > > > pushes the
> > > > ball up the court better than most players in
> > the
> > > > NBA. Plus there's the
> > > > inevitable Anderson injury.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Cheaney: A total waste so far. Looks like he's
> > > > picking up here he left off
> > > > > last season. We need him to rediscover his
> > > > shooting touch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He's trade bait. If he doesn't come around,
> > he'll
> > > > just be written off as
> > > > an
> > > > another veteran that couldn't play in Pitino's
> > > > system.There's been a few
> > > > of them.
> > > > But, there are several teams out there that need
> > a
> > > > backup guard: Utah,
> > > > Miami,
> > > > Indiana, Cleveland... So they should be able to
> > get
> >
> === message truncated ===
> 
> =====
> 
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