RE: (no subject)

["Berry, Mark S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>]

Come on guys, is there anything more insignificant than a starting lineup in
the first preseason game? If Pitino locked in on one lineup and didn't at
least experiment with players in different combinations, he wouldn't be
doing his job. Injuries, foul trouble and matchups dictate a lot of
different combinations during the season. Now is the time to find out which
work and which don't.

I'm sure we'll see plenty of Vitaly and Fortson together, just as we'll see
plenty of Battie matched up with one or the other as well. One of the nice
things about this team is it has several players who can play different
positions and give the Celtics different matchup advantages against certain
opponents.

So let's not jump off any bridges because of last night's starting lineup or
result.

Mark 

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Dan Forant Sr [SMTP:dforant1@nycap.rr.com]
	Sent:	Thursday, October 14, 1999 8:27 AM
	To:	celtics@igtc.com
	Subject:	Re: (no subject)

	Absolutely, Pitino get's a *C* for coaching last nites game. He must
have
	picked starters and matchup's out of a hat. I'm beginning to wonder
about him.

	At 01:54 PM 10/14/99 +0200, you wrote:
	>    I'm of course only relying on the boxscore, but IMO Pitino is
	>wasting our time and Fortson's time by handing opponents the same
	>mismatch Denver did all season strictly out of desperation
(starting
	>Fortson at center). Since we have a center to play alongside
Fortson
	>(Vitaly), by all means we need to already have them getting reps
playing
	>alongside each other, rather than going at each other hard every
	>practice trying to make one or the other guy redundant.
	>
	>    One reason I'm concerned about this meaningless exhibition game
is
	>because Pitino did something very similar with Battie last year.
Despite
	>ALL the evidence, Pitino continually groomed Battie as a backup
center
	>for 80% of the season, insisting he just needed "work in the
	>weightroom". When Antoine went down, Pitino finally had no choice
but to
	>test Battie's play at power forward, and naturally Battie
flourished to
	>fan expectations, exploiting his natural born advantages to average
just
	>a shade under 10 rebounds and tons of blocks. IMO, Battie would
never
	>shed his career-backup "El Busto" tag and inconsistent play until
he was
	>allowed repeated repetitions and confidence-building at his natural
	>forward position, where he actually has hope of guarding people.
	>Thankfully, Pitino changed his tune with Battie (saying he could
guard
	>even a Grant Hill etc. blah, blah, blah).
	>
	>    Yet now we seem to be going through Pitino's same stubborn
"learning
	>process" with Fortson, a guy with the perfect temperament and
talent to
	>be an Oakley-type menace playing alongside any true center.
	>
	>    Taken on its own, last night was just an innocent game, wherein
	>Pitino tried out  two distinct lineups so he could evaluate as many
of
	>his players as possible. But IMO he desperately needs to evaluate
his
	>players at their natural positions, playing shoulder-to-shoulder
with
	>the lineup they'll play most regularly with. Instead Pitino's
starts
	>Pierce at forward, Walker at power forward and goes with a 6-7
center,
	>and our poor-man's Ron Mercer (Duck Cheaney) at guard.
	>
	>Is that an improved lineup over last season? Gimmeabreak. I feel
like we
	>wasted an entire game having our key players doing reps at a
position
	>they logically should only play in emergencies during the season.
	>Remember, we have three absolutely critical starters playing a
brand new
	>position (Pierce, Walker and Fortson). I can't stress enough my
feeling
	>that Pitino should give all of  them the reps now, or the fans will
	>suffer the consequences.  When I first read that Fortson and Vitaly
were
	>going at each other hard every second of practice, I knew the Celts
were
	>falling off-track. Now I read that VP got 13 minutes last night and
was
	>the 10th guy off the Celts bench (presumably on the "pressing unit"
no
	>less) and I just feel like my worst "he's not THAT dumb, is he?"
	>suspicion was confirmed. Under the new cap, we are going to be
facing
	>many clubs with starting lineups that have played together daily
for
	>many meaningful games in a row. We fans don't have time for this
BS.
	>
	>    IMO Fort and VP should be working together going against Pervis
and
	>Battie every day, who are an ideal practice (since they represent a
	>fairly typical, mobile and tall 4-5 combination in the NBA). If
Fort and
	>Vitaly can't win a daily war of attrition against Pervis and
Battie,
	>then fine we should scrap the whole idea. But it sounds like we
aren't
	>even trying, and that really worries me. The Celtics have talent.
Pitino
	>needs to proactively define the potential mismatches the Celts pose
for
	>other teams, rather than worry about how we match up with opposing
	>talent.
	>
	>    On top of this, Pitino should stop wasting Fortson's career
like he
	>nearly did with Battie. The NBA is full of player whose offensive
game
	>slowly (or immediately) deteriorated as they lost confidence in
their
	>ability to score. In the case of Fortson, we are asking the kid to
stay
	>reasonably confident offensively (he was a terrific scorer in
college)
	>despite giving up at least half-a-foot in wingspan and equal bulk
to the
	>guy defending him (last night it was Eldon Campbell). If it were
you,
	>would you be able to maintain your form and keep trying to shoot
over
	>these guys? That kid is physically mismatched at center, even if he
	>still did incredibly gutsy work last year (let's face it, so far in
his
	>fascinating career he has made phenoms like Battie, Keon Clark and
now
	>apparently even Vitaly look like "El Busto" benchwarmers).
Nevertheless,
	>Fortson is a lottery team center, the type of 6-7 guy who will
	>unavoidably always be in foul trouble (and eventually break down
	>completely) trying to guard seven-footers only a desperate team and
	>idiot coach would force him to guard.
	>
	>    I know it's only a preseason game, everything seems innocent
enough,
	>and Pitino is as glib and confident as ever. Bottom line, I'd like
to
	>see from now on that our players get as many repetitions as
possible at
	>the position that suits them and exploits the Celtics' overall team
	>"strengths" (rebounding, toughness, and clearly defined roles and
go-to
	>scorers). Until we start doing this (even if we start now it will
take
	>time), opposing teams with less talent but far more year-to-year
	>cohesion will beat us. I guarantee you that this, in turn, will
lead us
	>to make misguided evaluations of certain players, and then the
	>merry-go-round of wholesale player transactions will start all over
	>again (as if we haven't seen it coming). :-) Obviously, there are
people
	>on this list that advocate that sort of thing.
	>
	>    The only solace I'll take is that Pitino has always been
relatively
	>weak at coaching big men, so any input from Bill Russell can
provide
	>great synergy. As incredibly gifted a coach as Pitino is, I don't
think
	>he'd make any informed "top 100" list of guys you'd want to develop
low
	>post talent. I think his string of fantastic success in college
without
	>any true center (Walter McCarty may have been his best), made him
think
	>his innovative system might continue working at the next level even
with
	>a Mark Pope-type finesse guy manning the middle (Travis Knight
etc.)  If
	>Russell watched the game last night, he was probably tempted to get
on
	>the cell phone and cackle in Pitino's face. Now that he has the
bodies,
	>Pitino needs to cut down the gimmicks and think only of building
team
	>chemistry and defining each starter's role. The way his mind seems
to
	>work, I'd actually be surprised right now if Pitino starts both
Fortson
	>and Vitaly to open the season.
	>
	>Joe
	>
	>****
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