Re: Was "Credit Pitino with loss"

["Jim Meninno" <jim_meninno@hotmail.com>]

>From: opi@unesco.org

>Having had a chance to catch up on some of my Celts game videos, my
>frank impression is that big things are still missing from Antoine's
>game but overall it is shocking how good he still looks to me at times, 
>even if the stats clearly don't support this view.

Joe, I can't tell you how glad I am that you've finally recieved some game 
videos.  I consider this post to be the most balanced and perceptive one 
I've read regarding Antoine's play all year.

>In the three games I watched in rapid succession last night, Antoine did 
>the old Magic Johnson "rebound + coast-to-coast layup" routine three times, 
>and the stunner was he'd power-dribble the entire distance left-handed 
>twice.

It's amazing how many people can't see this.  The man is the single best 
6'9" or bigger dribbler I can think of among active players.  Many people 
miss this because of his turnovers, which are largely travelling calls and 
offensive fouls.  When he gets into trouble with his dribble it's almost 
always because of a poor decision to take on 3 players rather than a ball 
control problem.  It's also amazing how many people underrate this skill.  
And I can't ever remember anyone talking about how proficient he is at 
dribbling and shooting with his off hand.  I'm sure that just happened 
without practicing!  When you talk about "creating your own offense" you 
really mean, can the player move quickly enough while dribbling the ball to 
get past a defender, and can he go both ways, forcing the defender to 
respect both sides.  Well, Antoine can do both, and a lot of players can't.  
Ball handling is the one area of his game that you can unquestionably say 
has improved over the last three years.  It is what gives him his 
"potential" and why he was paid what he was paid.

>Put another way, I've never seen a mid-air block of an Antoine shot. 
>Opponents slam the ball down before it is even five inches above his 
>forehead. These aren't necessarily always fouls, but opponents are allowed 
>to be aggressive with Antoine without even a minor risk that a foul will be 
>called.

It seems absolutely inconceivable that, with all the negative reinforcement 
he's been given by opposing players stuffing the ball down his throat, that 
Antoine hasn't learned to use fakes better.  I'm certain that a big reason 
he gets blocked so much is that players are briefed that he doesn't fake.  
Just try for the block every time.  There's nothing to lose.  The only 
explanation I have is that Antoine depends on speed so much to get free for 
the shot that he never stops hurrying.  He should have learned by now that 
the speed gives you an advantage of separation that you exploit by forcing 
the defender to make up that space by rushing at you or jumping, and that, 
once they've done that, they are helpless.  I have always been reluctant to 
use his youth as an excuse for anything because nobody forced him to leave 
college early, but I didn't notice until recently that he is actually the 
second youngest player on the team behind  Paul Pierce.  Whenever I get 
impatient with either of them, I just need to think about how much time 
these two have left to play together.

>Prior to watching the game videos, I was all prepared to claim that
>Antoine has lost some of his fury and aggression on the backboards in
>the process of trying to rein in the rest of his game. But in fact,
>there doesn't seem to be quite that easy an answer. Either Toine was an 
>incredibly lucky player to finish ahead of all but one NBA player in double 
>doubles back in 1998, or he's lost his mojo as a rebounder and may not 
>recover it this year.

In my opinion, there are a lot of factors that have contributed to Antoine 
having fewer rebounds this year.  First, he's playing fewer minutes.  15% 
fewer than his 10.2 rebound per game second year.  That's significant.  
Next, consider his teammates.  That year it was Mercer and McCarty at 2/3, 
with DeClerq or Knight at center and a horrendous bench.  Compared to last 
year, Griffin rebounds at least as well as Pierce at 3, and Pierce far 
better than Mercer at 2.  Potapenko has done a good job on the boards this 
year too, I think.  My feeling about this is that the TEAM is rebounding 
much better than the last two years.  If when Fortson returns they become 
the kind of team that routinely out rebounds the opposition, that will be 
good enough for me.  Perhaps Antoine was never the kind of rebounder a lot 
of us thought he was, but he's no sissy either.

>Still I'd argue that there is always a lagtime between people's
>perceptions and the reality. You'd have to have a nasty anti-Toine bias to 
>say he is playing particularly selfishly or not looking for his teammates. 
>After watching some games, I'm much more hopeful than before that Antoine 
>can benefit the Celtics or any other club as a more productive overall team 
>player than most other players of his age, mindset and ability.

I can't disagree with you here at all.  Antoine is considered the 
cornerstone of the team by Pitino because of his various abilities.  He can 
fill in holes depending on team needs.  That's why one dimensional 
shooter/scorers don't deserve big money.

There's no denying that Antoine is off to a poor start to the season, but if 
you traded your best player every time he had a bad month, or even year, 
you'd never get anywhere.  I couldn't believe some of the stuff I read this 
morning on this list.  "Who's to blame for the Celtics poor performance this 
year"?  Whose to blame?!?!  What do people expect?  I thought they were 
doing pretty good.  They were at, what, about .550 missing a quality player 
(Fortson), before Pierce and Potapenko went down during an extremely tough 
week.  You might have reasonably expected two wins out of thoes five games 
AT MOST even WITH Pierce and Potapenko playing.  Beating the Rockets with a 
depleted team was not impossible and certainly would have been nice.  They 
also do need to start playing better on the road.  I'm not sure what's 
happened there.  But, you people who are calling this season a failure, and 
all the players untalented and wanting Pitino fired are extremely misguided. 
  Truth is, they're going through one of the rougher patches of the season 
right now.  It would be expected to have a bad patch with some injuries, and 
this is it.  When they get back to full strength, they will have to string 
together some wins, and on the road too.  If the injuries don't continue, 
and there's no reason to think they will, I feel pretty good about their 
chances of doing what they set out to do.

Jim
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