'Toine Musings

[Dan Parker <danp@town.ipswich.ma.us>]

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:41:04 EST
> From: Alex Wang <awang@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: Celtics Barely Win: Celtics 100-Rockets 96 
> 
> The booing of Antoine is ridiculous; if you've been to the FleetCenter
> you probably understand what I mean. The instant he misses a shot, no
> matter how open he is, the crowd murmurs in displeasure. If he misses
> a few in a row, the booing starts. No other player gets this treatment
> no matter how bad their shot is. It makes Antoine tentative and
> basically wrecks his game.

I dunno.  I think the Boston fans were pretty patient the first two years.
The wiggle turned me off immediately, as did his whining to the refs, but
with 'Toine so young and putting up good numbers most people seemed to
tolerate him.

The booing really got started in March when the Celtics went through that
awful period were you kept thinking, "Okay, this is as low as they can go"
and then they would get even worse.  'Toine wasn't the only culprit but
after going through a 2-29 stretch over two games the dam broke.

There are definitely some fans out there who won't give 'Toine a break.
He's just got to put his head down, work his way through it, and play so
well they *can't* boo him.  It's not like he doesn't have the skills to
turn it around, though his commitment has certainly come into question.


> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:30:06 PST
> From: "Jim Meninno" <jim_meninno@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Celtics Barely Win: Celtics 100-Rockets 96
> 
> >From: Sptguy33@aol.com
> >
> >On the other hand, Walker rubs the fans the wrong way with the way he acts, 
> >so he deserves some of the blame. He's just not a very likable guy.
> >
> >I would never boo him for missing a shot though.
> >
> >I have yelled at him for not hustling back on defense, which he does often.
> 
> I doubt you would do it in that situation (i.e. Celtics leading by 30, game 
> in garbage time).

How many games have the Celtics led by 20 only to lose the game this year?
When the Celtics get a big lead 'Toine is the first to go into 'garbage
mode' and start tossing lousy passes, dribbling into three men, and
taking crazy shots.

> the team to win.  Exactly how is their booing helping matters?  The boo 
> birds have created a nasty atmosphere to go watch a game in.  Really.

Some fans may think the team is better off without Walker and by booing
him out of town they will improve the team.

Personally I think he brings a net zero effect to the team.  He does a lot
of good things and a lot of bad things.  I think the Celtics could replace
him with a solid player (better than role player, but not superstar --
mid-tier star) and not miss a beat.


> nonsense.  I've been wondering why attendance has been so poor, given the 
> foact the the team is better than it has been for years.  I think I have my 
> answer.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I often think I care about
the Celtics winning more than the players do.  And it hurts to think that
they are getting paid all of that money and might not care about the score
at the end of the game.  Watching the Celtics lose is *painful* to me.  At
the New York game, when it looked like the C's were sure to lose, the
camera panned along the Celtic's bench and several players were smiling
and laughing about something (I specifically remember Walter, there were
at least two others). That kills me.  After a loss I want to see solemn
faces, at least until they get off the court.  When they lose a game like
that to the Knicks I want there to be a doubleheader so we can even things
up.

I don't think the fans sense that desire in the players anymore, which has
hurt the attendance.  The ticket prices sure haven't helped either.


> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:37:31 -0500
> From: Jim Hill <jahill@leasingservice.com>
> Subject: Was Celts Barely Win
> 
> opi stated:
> "... The one player in the last 15 years who reminds me of Larry Bird (a
> lobotomized Bird) in terms of his competitiveness, triple-double caliber tools
> and last-second bombs, but he turns out to be "too black" for Boston..."
> 
> This is bullsh*t.  He isn't too "Black", he's too "lazy".

> To continue to try and turn this into a "racial thing" is ridiculous.

I've got to agree, the race card has never held much water with me.  I'm
sure it's a factor with *some* people, but not very many.  Imagine if
after draining a jump shot, Bird wiggled his hips while the ball was still
in play.  Even if the Celtics were winning, you can bet a lot of
fans would have thought of him as an arrogant jerk and wished for the
humbleness of a John Havlicek.

> 
> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:11:29 -0500
> From: "Juddy" <norine@sover.net>
> Subject: Re: Was Celts Barely Win
> 
> Someone (Pitino?) should have given Antoine better advice or handled him =
> differently.

I think Antoine could really thrive under the right coach.  I think Larry
Bird would be one of the best -- he doesn't yell, publicly embarrass his
players, or play head games.  Through his stature as a player he commands
respect.  I'm sure all of the players are well aware that to challenge
Larry, especally while he's coaching in Indiana, is PR suicide.

Pitino's the wrong coach for 'Toine right now.  In a way, a trade would be
the best thing for him, and I would wish him well wherever he went.

Dan