Old List 4/15/97

[Jeremy <jwarren@eecs.tufts.edu>]

	I was cleaning out my old mailbox when I found this Pre-Pitino
era Celtics digest.  I thought I'd send it out before I deleted it.  We've
come a long way.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest <Celtics-Digest-Owner@igtc.com>
Reply-To: Celtics@igtc.com
To: Celtics-Digest@igtc.com
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V4 #115


The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest
 Tuesday, April 15 1997 Volume 04 : Number 115



In this issue:

	Mavs edge us closer to #6
	Various responses
	Re: Re: Random Thoughts
	Disturbing Development and CM x-change
	Stacey King & others
	Todd Day or lack thereof
	rumors and snippets
	Next year's lineup
	Re: random notes 
	RE: Former Celtics
	Re: Todd Day or lack thereof
	Re: random notes 
	Re: Former Celtics
	...
	...
	Jersey numbers
	Re: Random Thoughts
	RE: who i would keep
	"No April rains, no flowers bloom, no wedding bells within the month of June."
	Re: Stacey King's #
	Re: BILL FITCH
	Re: "...the violence causes silence who are we mistaken..."
	Re: Who would you keep?
	Re: ...
	Re: Mavs edge us closer to #6
	Re: Disturbing Development and CM x-change

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:20:48 -0600
From: Gene Kirkpatrick <gkir@tjc.tyler.cc.tx.us>
Subject: Mavs edge us closer to #6

I'm sure there are a lot of you out there who think the Mavs' losses are
sort of automatic and you don't even begin to comprehend how much
concentration it takes for me to pull it off down here.  Take last night for
example:  as usual, the Mavs made a run for it against a fair Clips team. 
Down the stretch they got within one point several times only to be
repulsed by my strong, unwavering evil eye.  Yes, and the help of the
incredible klutz, Shawn Bradley.  Don't let the box scores fool you:  32
points and a ton of rebounds but his attitude and penchant for the wrong
foul at the right time killed them in the crunch.  Losses to the Clips and the
Griz were very timely, and frankly, I'm tired of carrying such a load.  Glad
the season is over Sunday.

Gene  (the Mavs watch--someone has to do it)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:33:54 -0600
From: Gene Kirkpatrick <gkir@tjc.tyler.cc.tx.us>
Subject: Various responses

It's a good thing I'm not in the C's front office, but the same goes for some
of you guys.  I guess talent is in the eyes of the beholder, but I'm barely
believing some of the things I'm reading recently.

That Todd Day is all-star material.  I agree with Josh that he could be a
capable back-up (wasn't that the gist of it, Josh), with his size and
athleticism, he could, properly governed, give us 15 minutes.  But, an
all-star?

That Red is "out of touch" with today's NBA.  I merely think that,
with our situation, nothing will happen until the season is over and no
mid-course correction would have helped this year without a center.  As
long as Red can see, he can help us.

That we can somehow keep Wesley and dump M. L.  Whatever wrong
the Carr has done, he has allowed the three W's to develop (maybe that
would have happened, anyway) and throwing him out altogether will
damage the nucleus that he has developed.

Finally, the idea that we can let Marty go.  Why do you think people come
to the ballpark in the first place?

Gene  (33 days to go)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 8:58:47 EDT
From: jross@S1.DRC.COM
Subject: Re: Re: Random Thoughts

  My apologies to the group.  Based upon the initial
responses, I apparently did not do a good job of explaining
the "mental exercise" described in my previous post 
(below).

>In better times, I used to entertain myself by checking the
>league's rosters and identifying players on other teams that
>have "slipped through" the Celtics hands.  Using this list 
>of former or "passing-through" Celtics, I'd assemble (on 
>paper) an ex-Celtics team and speculate as to how well this
>team might do against the current league.  Is there any true
>talent that truly "got away"?  --  Any takers for this 
>mental exercise?

  What I meant to suggest was to identify only those players
whose rights the Celtics have actually (previously) owned.
For example, Joe Klein, Robert Parrish, Jon Barry, Brian
Shaw are all current NBA players who rights belonged to the
Celtics, but who no longer play for the Celtics.  This list
can include, for example, injured players, players who 
"passed through" the Celtics roster on 10-day contracts, 2nd
Round Draft pick players who were cut but later resurfaced 
in the NBA on another team.  This list should include only 
players who rights (even if only briefly) belonged to the 
Celtics.  This list would, in my mind, represent a true list 
of actual NBA-level talent that "got away".
  Bestest, 

  --  Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:40:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOzersky@aol.com
Subject: Disturbing Development and CM x-change

Something else for us to worry about:  now this story in the globe about Bird
not showing up in Phoenix.  This is bad.  Here's something that might amuse
you, an exchange between me and Dean M. Laux, the editor of Celtics Monthly:



To:  Dean M. Laux
From: subscriber Josh Ozersky

I've been trying to put my finger on what is so disappointing about Celtics
Monthly.  At first I thought it was that the magazine is so clearly in bed
with the Celtics publicity department, and that that accounted for the many
softballs thrown in interviews  ("CM:  In your opinion, do we have to go all
out this coming offseason to get a center, whether through free agency, a
trade, or the draft?  Carr:  Yes.") and the general Pollyanish tone of the
features. 

But I now realize that the problem is simpler and more solvable.  Celtics
Monthly is simply aiming too low.  It assumes a readership that knows almost
nothing about basketball, and one with only a paassing knowledge of the team,
e.g. who don't know who Tim Duncan is, who is on the injured list, etc.  The
recent insert of forty players to watch in the coming tournament was typical.
What celtics fan doesn't know at least the names of the top players?  And
what do we need a list of their names and heights for anyway?  Serious
celtics fans would be much better served by in-depth scouting reports, issue
by issue of the top picks, all throughout this dismal year -- as opposed to
the slick, uninformative draft preview you no doubt have cooked up  ("Van
Horn is a good outside shooter, but there are questions about whether he can
be an inside presence in the NBA.")  

For a magazine that only comes out a few times a year, which is a month
behind news, and which only carries three or four features a month  (I'm not
including the press releases among those, e.g. "Jan Volk donates time to the
Jewish Home for the Aged"), Celtics Monthly doesn't do a very good job of
helping serious celtics fans supplement what we get through the Globe, the
newsgroups, ESPN, CBS Sportsline, the Herald, SI, and half a dozen other
sports news organs which presume much greater sophistication on the part of
their readers.


Date:  Fri, Apr 11, 1997 1:55 PM EDT
From:  CeltMonth
Subj:  Re: Memo to Dean M. Laux: One Subscriber's Opinion
To:      J Ozersky

Mr. Ozersky:
Where have you been? Celtics Monthly is the OFFICIAL MAGAZINE OF THE BOSTON
CELTICS. Have you ever read FastBreak, Rip City, Hawk Talk, or any of the
other official team publications in the NBA? If you want team public
relations, take a look at those magazines, and then reread CM. You'll see
that, as a team publication, we are far more "arms length" than any other.
     That having been said, we are talking about a team that, at this
writing, is 13-64 and having its worst season ever, by far. Should we be
telling you, a sophisticated fan, how bad the team is? Doesn't the record
tell you that? Don't you get enough of that reading Peter May and Mike
Holley? What purpose would be served by writing articles dripping with
sarcasm about a team that is down, even if we weren't the OFFICIAL MAGAZINE
of the Celtics? Like the vast majority of our readers, who are fans, we want
to know what positives can be found and what can be built upon for the
future. We have unusually good access to people around the league who can
help us to formulate our own opinions about these things, which may differ
from those of the Celtics-but the Celtics, to their credit, don't object to
our voicing these opinions in their OFFICIAL MAGAZINE.
     Unlike you, a large percentage of our readers do not get the Boston
Globe and the Boston Herald, since they are from out of state or even out of
the country. We have to provide them with basic information that you may
already know about. With all the other publications and services you
subscribe to, you would appear to be unusually well informed, but we must
deal with a broader audience.
   Dean Laux

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:37:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeremy P. Ryan" <jeryan@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Stacey King & others

Matt Fish
Mike Brown
Jerome Kersey (I can't stand that frigging guy) 
Dennis Rodman ('nuff said)
Any 300 lb. Clippers center

> At 08:09 AM 4/14/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >I was just wondering, is there a crappy player that HASN'T played for the
> >Celtics this season?
> 
> Jack Haley
> Scott Brooks
> Stojko Vrankovic
> Larry Krystkowiak
> Martin Lewis
> $haq

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:55:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeremy P. Ryan" <jeryan@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Todd Day or lack thereof

Additional Guards better than Todd Day:

Dan Majerle
Bryant Stith
Sasha Danilovich
Doug West
Rex Chapman
Dell Curry (Rice is a SF)
Ron Harper

My vision of the summer:

June 30:-Todd Day finds his belongings in a box outside of the Fleetcenter
July 1:-Celtics renounce him
       -Celtics begin to deny that he ever played for them
July 2:-That sound you hear is the collective slamming of 28 doors in Mr.
        Day's mug.
July 3:-Day drops off the face of the Earth
July 4-Mid February:-No one notices until he pops up uninvited at the CBA
                     All-Star game looking for a run. The CBA players
                     laugh him out of the gym, and he goes back to
                     Arkansas to become Richardson's top, ahem,
                     assistant coach/recruiter/grade fixer. 

Other than that, I think Day is a fine basketball player. He might have
been able to start on my intramural team this year, but he'd have to work
on his point guard skills.

- -Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:27:40 -0400
From: Ken Kokubo <kkokubo@pobox.harvard.edu>
Subject: rumors and snippets

Last night as I was flipping channels I heard Bob Lobel say something to
the affect of "there is a 75% chance that Larry Brown will be the coach
next year." Only caught the end of it.

Nothing in either paper today, I was wondering where this figure came from?
What unamed source?

Also I have now heard Jo Jo White on 2 different radio stations (promoting
a celtics sponsored event, which actually sounds interesting, old time c's
playing each other, etc..) and saying "HE would like a more active role in
the future..." among other things.

hmmm.

like the subject said just a few snippets.

Gene, thanks for focusing your energy on the Mavs, now is there a list
member in Philly that can get them to win? I think it's a lost cause now.
they would have to win their last 3 to pass Dallas for the 5 spot. (if they
tie I assume it comes down to conf or div record for the draft right?)

Jeremy, Every Patriots day?!? Wow! getting up at 5am was enough for me once
;^) It's an understament to say, I'm really not a morning person. (went to
LHS, you?)

Ken



k k @ h a r v a r d . e d u
U I S / H a r v a r d   U n i v e r s i t y

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:30:13 -0500
From: "Brian Boisvert" <brianb@stylus.com>
Subject: Next year's lineup

I've seen a lot of mail lately about who to keep, who to dump, etc. so I   
thought I'd add my $.02.  First of all, I've tried to be realistic.  Sure   
I'd love to see them dump Dee, Ellison, Barros, and some of these other   
huge contracts, but realistically, we just can't.  We tried.  No one   
wants them, so we better get used to them.  So, assuming we get Duncan (I   
know -- big assumption!), here's how I see next year shaping up:

PG:  Wesley/Barros
SG:  Draft pick?/Minor/Brown
SF:  Fox/Williams
PF:  Walker/Radja
C:  Duncan/Ellison/Conlon

This really isn't a bad team.  They have several veteran players, but are   
also *very* young and athletic -- a huge upside.  Assuming that they gel,   
stay healthy, and have a decent coach, I could see them making the   
playoffs, maybe even during the first year.  However, I think this would   
also be the most expensive bench in league history -- Barros (3.4   
million), Minor (1.8 million), Brown (3.25 million), Radja (5.3 million),   
and Ellison (1.8 million)!  Obviously (with the possible exception of   
Minor), I wouldn't mind seeing all of these "bench" guys disappear, but,   
assuming we are stuck with them, this would make for a pretty deep team   
 -- very few teams can have players like Radja and Williams come off the   
bench!  I'm also assuming that we resign Wesley (which I think we will)   
and Fox (which I hope we will, but think we might not if another team   
offers him a larger contract).  I also figure that we've seen the last of   
Day, Hamer, Driggers, Hawkins, Brickowski, Szabo, and Lister.  I happen   
to hate Todd Day (and his pathetic FG%), but even the Day supporters have   
to realize that Day's cap slot is much more valuable to the Celtics right   
now than the player is.  He's gone at the end of the season.

I'd also like to comment on what Heinsohn said about trading down to dump   
Dee.  This really isn't a bad idea (and one that I have been advocating   
for some time).  For the first time in years, we have a lot of different,   
exciting options ahead of us because of these two picks.  If the Dallas   
pick turns out to be just "average" (i.e. not top-five), we may want to   
look to trade it with one or two of our expensive "bench" players (like   
Dee).  There are very few other situations where we will be able to dump   
a salary like this.  Salary cap issues are going to be huge in the next   
few years.  If we don't do something now, everyone is going to be   
bitching and moaning in 98-99 when we can't sign any free agents.  This   
way, we can use the Todd Day/Lister/Brickowski money to resign Wesley,   
Fox, and the draft picks and still have some $$$ for free agents in the   
next few years.  Obviously, if the Dallas pick is #2 or something like   
that, I wouldn't trade it away, but if it is #7, you could use it to free   
up cap money to sign a PROVEN free agent, rather than draft a rookie   
which is always a crapshoot no matter where you pick.

 --Brian
brianb@stylus.com  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:56:20 -0400
From: marinoph@bc.edu
Subject: Re: random notes 

Radja is making roughly $5,5 million this year and for the rest of his contract.
How can you say that this is not an outrageous amount of money?  He's now a
back-up power forward with Walker in the mix.

Phil

On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:14:58 -0800  rnault@ptialaska.net (Nault) wrote:

>
>>Jordan is
>>an amazing player, no doubt, but he's not gonna win this thing on his own.
>
>He's done it before and he can do it again.
>
>>Assuming we get Duncan (big assumption), who is the outside scoring threat on
>>this team?  Don't anyone dare say Minor or Day.
>
>Well you told me not to say it but I am going to say Day.  Barros is potent
>from behind the arc too WHEN HE IS PLAYING WELL (which doesn't seem to be
>too often!)
>
>>Also I say dump, trade, get rid
>>of as many of the following as POSSIBLE (meaning don't eat anyone's salary
>>beyond a yr's worth): Ellison, Day, Brown, Brick, Hamer, Radja--in other
>>words
>>keep: Walker, Williams,  Barros (just to see if he's a fit on next year's
>>team),
>>Wesley and maybe Fox
>
>You have got to be kidding me!  Get rid of Day and Radja?  Maybe Day, but
>not Radja!  Radja is a solid player and is not making an outrageous amount
>of money.  I can't believe that you want to keep Barros.  Barros hasn't
>done anything to justify his lofty salary!  And as for Fox why would we not
>want to keep him? He is a good player.  I think he can play better, another
>one of those guys with a high potential.
>
>Tim
>
>Nault
>rnault@ptialaska.net
>
>Visit the PatriotsPage at:
>http://www.ptialaska.net/~rnault/PatriotsPage.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:55:04 -0400
From: Charles Jowett <jowett_charles@waters.com>
Subject: RE: Former Celtics

  What I meant to suggest was to identify only those players
whose rights the Celtics have actually (previously) owned.
For example, Joe Klein, Robert Parrish, Jon Barry, Brian
Shaw are all current NBA players who rights belonged to the
Celtics, but who no longer play for the Celtics.  This list
can include, for example, injured players, players who 
"passed through" the Celtics roster on 10-day contracts, 2nd
Round Draft pick players who were cut but later resurfaced 
in the NBA on another team.  This list should include only 
players who rights (even if only briefly) belonged to the 
Celtics.  This list would, in my mind, represent a true list 
of actual NBA-level talent that "got away".
  Bestest, 

  --  Jim
=============================================

Current NBA players who at one time were signed to the 
Celtics:

Jon Barry
Sherman Douglas
Acie Earl
Blue Edwards
Kevin Gamble
Stacy King
Joe Kleine
Tony Massenburg
Xavier McDaniel
Eric Montross
Robert Parish
Ed Pinckney
Steve Scheffler
Brian Shaw
Derek Strong
Stojko Vrankovic
Dominique Wilkins
Lorenzo Williams
Joe Wolf

Current NBA players who were in training camp but did not 
make the team:

George McCloud
Rameal Robinson

Who did I miss?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:39:39 -0700
From: Tim <gmmiller@ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Todd Day or lack thereof

Dan Majerle and Dell Curry are definitely better than Day, I'll give you that.  
But Bryant Stith?  I don't think so.  Or Doug West or Rex Chapman or Ron Harper, 
none of those guys are better than Day!  And Danilovic may be better than Day, 
but he rarely plays anyways!

Tim



> Additional Guards better than Todd Day:
> 
> Dan Majerle
> Bryant Stith
> Sasha Danilovich
> Doug West
> Rex Chapman
> Dell Curry (Rice is a SF)
> Ron Harper
> 
> My vision of the summer:
> 
> June 30:-Todd Day finds his belongings in a box outside of the Fleetcenter
> July 1:-Celtics renounce him
>        -Celtics begin to deny that he ever played for them
> July 2:-That sound you hear is the collective slamming of 28 doors in Mr.
>         Day's mug.
> July 3:-Day drops off the face of the Earth
> July 4-Mid February:-No one notices until he pops up uninvited at the CBA
>                      All-Star game looking for a run. The CBA players
>                      laugh him out of the gym, and he goes back to
>                      Arkansas to become Richardson's top, ahem,
>                      assistant coach/recruiter/grade fixer.
> 
> Other than that, I think Day is a fine basketball player. He might have
> been able to start on my intramural team this year, but he'd have to work
> on his point guard skills.
> 
> -Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:41:10 -0700
From: Tim <gmmiller@ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: random notes 

Thats a good point.  I forgot that he was making that much money!  In 
that case I agree that they should get rid of him or get him to take a 
pay cut.  he is a good player, but not good enough for 5 and a half 
million a year.

Tim


marinoph@bc.edu wrote:
> 
> Radja is making roughly $5,5 million this year and for the rest of his contract.
> How can you say that this is not an outrageous amount of money?  He's now a
> back-up power forward with Walker in the mix.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:49:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Drisko <drisko@ics.com>
Subject: Re: Former Celtics

[Charles Jowett wrote]

> Current NBA players who were in training camp but did not 
> make the team:
> 
> George McCloud
> Rameal Robinson
> 
> Who did I miss?


Charles,

  Isaac Austin.  He's the pretty decent backup center for the Heat.  The
Celtics let him go because they felt that he needed to lose about 20 or 30 lbs
to be in good playing condition.

  The Heat signed him and put him on a weight program.  Here's what they got
from putting some effort into this guy:

						         Rebounds
 G  Min  FGA   Pct  FTA   Pct 3PM*   Pct  Blk   St   TO  Off  Tot  Ast  Pts
78 22.9  7.7  50.2  2.8  66.1    0   0.0  0.5  0.6  2.0  1.6  5.9  1.2  9.6

  Not bad.  Better than what the Big Ham produced and look how much effort
and weight loss he needed...



		Laytah,

		Jason


  ************************************************************************
  Jason A. Drisko               	Email: drisko@ics.com 
  Integrated Computer Solutions		WWW:   http://www.ics.com/~drisko
  201 Broadway 				Voice: (617) 621-0060
  Cambridge, MA 02139          		Fax:   (617) 621-9555
  ************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry allan Lawson <jlawson@mail.sdsu.edu>
Subject: ...

	Hey, did you check out the College Bachelor's Magazine yet. What
did you think of my article? I am so ready for it to be Friday so that my
Political Science Test is over and so that the trip to Magic Mountain is
nearer...This Saturday is Magic Mountain day. Then no tests the following
week...Then the trip to Disneyland...Then a test, bummer...Then the
banquets start and the party afterward...Then it is time for
Chappypalooza...then finals. 
	Congrats, on the girlfriend. And instead of sending them to me, if
you could drop them off to my mom, becaus eshe has to send me a bunch of
papers and stuff for school. Thanks for the help. I better go, I need to
finish some homework before class starts...Take it easy.

						Life is busy....,
							Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry allan Lawson <jlawson@mail.sdsu.edu>
Subject: ...

	Hi everybody, I must apologize for the message I sent. I meant to
send it to my friend back home, but I accidently sent it to the
celtics@igtc.com page....Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused
for you all.
					Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:43:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Drisko <drisko@ics.com>
Subject: Jersey numbers

  Well it took a little time, but it's finally finished.  

  The Boston Celtics WWW Server (http://www.ics.com/Celtics) now has a 
complete directory of all player jersey numbers and the players who wore them.
This list contains notes on which numbers are retired, what years the player 
had the number, and what other numbers the player may have worn.

  This information compliments all of the other historical information that 
can already be found on the site, which includes:

	* complete draft history of the Celtics
	* Celtic trades
	* Celtics players and coaches All Star appearances
	* Celtics winning NBA statistical categories 
	* Celtics winning NBA awards
	* Celtics retired numbers and player summaries
	* Celtics in the Hall of Fame
	* Celtics year-by-year record 
	* Celtics all time statistic leaders 
	* Celtics head coaches
	
  Stay tuned for upcoming additions which include year-by-year rosters, 
year-by-year team statistic leaders, and the "Celtic Legends Section".
	

		Laytah,

		Jason


  ************************************************************************
  Jason A. Drisko               	Email: drisko@ics.com 
  Integrated Computer Solutions		WWW:   http://www.ics.com/~drisko
  201 Broadway 				Voice: (617) 621-0060
  Cambridge, MA 02139          		Fax:   (617) 621-9555
  ************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeremy Warren <jwarren@emerald.tufts.edu>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 JOzersky@aol.com wrote:

> I think the guy meant players we had and let go or traded.  If you take it to
> mean "players who didn't get drafted by us" it is stupid.  That means any
> late pick who happened to turn out well.  Who knew Timmy Hardaway would be
> this good?  Or that Eric would have "2-4 0-0J" tattooed on his chest?
>  Please!  If Jerry West needed a center, and he was picking nine, he would
> have taken Montross too.  The only players in the league right now who
> legimately slipped away from us that we would take back are Derek Strong and
> (maybe) Brian Shaw.
> 
	I can understand not counting every possible draft pick who was
taken later, but players who were taken right after our picks and turned
out better are clearly mistakes or players who got away.

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:03:00 PDT
From: Matthew Booker         ext9156 <mbooker@tyndall.com.au>
Subject: RE: who i would keep

Barros, Brown, Radja, Ellison etc are signed to long term contracts. For the 
last time, waiving or trading them is an impossibility! If we waive them 
they still count against our cap! And who would want to trade for these 
overpaid chumps!


 ----------
From: JOzersky
To: celtics
Subject: who i would keep
Date: Tuesday, 15 April 1997 8:03AM

I would keep Walker and Fox  and Eric for sure.  Fox for leadership, and 
Eric
because you will regret it.  Also he is antoine's best friend on the team.


Todd I want to keep, esp. since he has no trade value.  And I like him.
 Maybe that makes me an ignorant boozer too.

Dino, David -- we could really use both next year.  We're through with
rebuilding.  We need chemistry and nucleus and vveteran leadership.  You 
cant
draft that.  I wouldn't mind drafting a true playmaker though, if he had 
star
potential.  I think with David wanting Chris Childs money, this may have to
happen.  Radja is valuable, but a Vin Baker would be more so.  Either of
these guys could be parted with.

Brown -- again, he can help you, but not at those prices.  Goodbye.  Same
with Ellison and Barros.  Good bye.

Szabo, Conlon, Minor:  keep.  Why not? You need these kind of guys.  The
first two might have to be waived if we go big with both picks, but
definitely hold on to minor, who is a minimum wager with real upside.  I'd
give his feet a catscan first, though.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:13:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeremy Warren <jwarren@emerald.tufts.edu>
Subject: "No April rains, no flowers bloom, no wedding bells within the month of June."

> Szabo, Conlon, Minor:  keep.  Why not? You need these kind of guys.  The
> first two might have to be waived if we go big with both picks, but
> definitely hold on to minor, who is a minimum wager with real upside.
I'd
> give his feet a catscan first, though.

	Last year Minor signed a five year $13M contract.  So he's no
longer a minimum wager.

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:12:33 Central Daylight Time
From: "Jon Michael Hamm" <jonmichael@honors.educ.ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Stacey King's #

At 08:52 AM 4/14/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Shaq?!  Now I know he can't shoot, but he sure is hell is better than
>our center!
>
>Tim

Sorry, I just have this extreme hate for $haq. Almost as much as Scottie
Pippen, but that's another story...


|====================================================|
| Jon Michael Hamm 	   JonMichael@Honors.ou.edu  |
|====================================================|
|	 ACTUAL NEWSPAPER HEADLINES BLOOPERS         |
|        * Eye drops off shelf                       |
|        * Miners refuse to work after death         |
|        * Enraged cow injures farmer with ax        |
|        * Hospitals are Sued by 7 Foot Doctors      |
|====================================================|
|      Out of my mind.  Back in five minutes.        |
|====================================================|

    "I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....
      Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car...."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:32:08 -0700
From: "JLyell" <jlyell@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: BILL FITCH

 
> >A good college coach not does not necessarily make a good NBA coach.
> 

This is correct, just as a good NBA player does not always make a good
coach or G.M.  Some of the worst G.M's I can recall were Bill Russell in
Sacramento, & currently Elgin Baylor with the Clippers, Willis Reed with
New Jersey, with Whoa Nellie coming up fast on the outside  !!!!..






> Excellent point. Remember Jerry Tarkanian's 21 game horror with the
Spurs?
> Remember PJ Carlesimo on the hot seat for most of his coaching tenure?
> 

On the hot seat but the blazers are much improved even with some of the
worst attitudes (Robinson, Rider) in the league.


> However, Pitino is an exception. He was an NBA coach, and a successful
one at that. It is known that he would again make a successful NBA coach,
but I
> just don't see him dropping Kentucky this year. Given the option to teach
> rather than babysit seems a bit more appealing to him now. However, I
figure
> he will leave the Bluegrass state soon.
> 
> 
> |====================================================|
> | Jon Michael Hamm 	   JonMichael@Honors.ou.edu  |
> |====================================================|
> |	 ACTUAL NEWSPAPER HEADLINES BLOOPERS         |
> |        * Eye drops off shelf                       |
> |        * Miners refuse to work after death         |
> |        * Enraged cow injures farmer with ax        |
> |        * Hospitals are Sued by 7 Foot Doctors      |
> |====================================================|
> |      Out of my mind.  Back in five minutes.        |
> |====================================================|
> 
>     "I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....
>       Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car...."
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:35:47 -0700
From: "JLyell" <jlyell@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: "...the violence causes silence who are we mistaken..."

> 
> >	Todd Day is at best mediocre as a starter.  If you go through all
> >29 teams and think about who they have at the 2-spot, there are at least
> >20-25 2's in this league who are better than Todd Day.  You can talk
about
> >"potential" all you want.  But even if he reached his full potential he
> >would still be below average, and to suggest that he could potentially
be
> >an all-star is laughable.
> 
> Todd Day has brilliant potential.  If he did reach his full potential I
> think he would definitely be an all-star.  Now whether he will or not is
a
> totally different matter...


That is what everyone has been saying since Arkansas !  If it hasn't
happened in what 6 years, don't bet on it ever happening.  Brilliant
potential !   That is what was said about Chris Washburn, Sam Bowie,
Michael Smith, Lionel Simmons, Donyell Marshall, Corliss Williamson, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:45:49 -0700
From: "JLyell" <jlyell@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Who would you keep?

> 
> Walker:
> Keep this guy, he is awesome.

Agree

> 
> Williams:
> Keep him
> 
Move him for a big scoring 2 & go 3 or 4 in the draft.

> Radja:
> Very solid and consistent
> 
With his salary he isn't going anywhere

> Fox:
> Bring this guy back.
> 
I'd give him $2M, he isn't worth any more.  There are faster quicker
athletes available in the draft or FA



> Wesley:
> Definitely bring this guy back.
> 
Worth around $3M, if he wants more we have to consider Cassell a bigger
guard with better playoff experience.  The last thing we need is another
ridiculous long term contract with an undersized guard who has had one good
year.


> Day:
> Bring him back dammit!  I like this guy!

Dump him & use the salary slot in 97 or 98

> 
> Brickowski and Lister:
> I hope they both die and go to hell (that means don't bring them back)
> > Hamer and Conlon:
> Ditch em, maybe keep them for minimum salary.
> > Szabo:
> Say bye-bye
> > Driggers:
> Keep him for NBA minimum
> > Dee Brown:
> Get rid of this guy and his huge salary!
> 
Agree dump them, Brown will be difficult, unless we take a Hurley, Simmons,
Marshall or other big contract.



> Barros:
> If you aren't going to keep Wesley and you can't find somebody better
than
> keep him.  Or make him take a pay cut.
> 
> Ellison:
> Injured too much and hasn't done a whole lot when he is healthy.  Did
have
> that one great season (20ppg), but that must've been a fluke or
something.
> I say ditch him.
> 
> Tim
> 
> >This is an interesting thread on the news group.  I copied warren's
> >comment's to the celtic email list and added my own.
> >

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Caleb J. McArthur" <cmcarthu@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: ...

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Jerry allan Lawson wrote:

> 	Congrats, on the girlfriend. And instead of sending them to me, if
> you could drop them off to my mom, becaus eshe has to send me a bunch of
> papers and stuff for school. Thanks for the help. I better go, I need to

> 							Jerry

Tell your mom that if she puts the papers in the same box as the women,
she can save a bundle by paying book rate.  However, the insurance costs
will be enormous.

CJM

sorry, I couldn't resist some sort of comment

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:13:53 GMT
From: ChomS@tiac.net (Steve Chomicz)
Subject: Re: Mavs edge us closer to #6

Gene,

Thanks a million for givining the mavs the evil eye this year!  I'm
sure it was very hard work.  You did a great job.  Just get them to
drop from the #6 to the #5 and ML and Paul Gaston will give you a
bonus.

- -steve
(who has had to watch the celtics lose... how many games? Ugh....
never again.  We got our picks, now Its onwards and upwards next
season!)
=20


On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:20:48 -0600, you expressed these thoughts:

>I'm sure there are a lot of you out there who think the Mavs' losses are
>sort of automatic and you don't even begin to comprehend how much
>concentration it takes for me to pull it off down here.  Take last night=
 for
>example:  as usual, the Mavs made a run for it against a fair Clips =
team.=20
>Down the stretch they got within one point several times only to be
>repulsed by my strong, unwavering evil eye.  Yes, and the help of the
>incredible klutz, Shawn Bradley.  Don't let the box scores fool you:  32
>points and a ton of rebounds but his attitude and penchant for the wrong
>foul at the right time killed them in the crunch.  Losses to the Clips =
and the
>Griz were very timely, and frankly, I'm tired of carrying such a load.  =
Glad
>the season is over Sunday.
>
>Gene  (the Mavs watch--someone has to do it)
>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Boston Celtics will hang banner #17 in the FleetCenter by 2001!
You Can't Keep A Good Leprechaun Down forever...
http://www.tiac.net/users/ChomS/celtics.html

With the #1 Pick, the Boston Celtics Select....  Tim Duncan!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:21:00 -0700
From: "JLyell" <jlyell@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Disturbing Development and CM x-change

To Dean M. Laux

Dean, I am living out in Laker land & have to agree with Mr. Ozersky.  Your
magazine is pretty poor in providing any real cutting edge or inside info
on the Celtics we have not already heard months before.  You paint a bright
picture of a poor team. We need to be more critical and voice the fan's
real opinion (take some opinion polls!) or this franchise will never make
the changes need or desired by the fan's. This fan would recommend you grab
a few copies of the old Celtic Pride magazine, it was way more up to date,
unbiased, &  informative.  The Sound Off fan feedback & response was one of
the best sections, as were articles from reporters with good inside
scoops.You should have your writers subscribe to the Celtic discussion list
where the die hard Celtic fan's hang out & they might find out what most
Celtic fan's really think and get some information in a more timely matter
!   Another idea is to subscribe to Don Leventhal's draft report for some
real good information on prospective draft picks & their performance in
camps.

PS.   That masked men cover was hysterical !!  Maybe they have been using
them all year, except over their eyes on defense !!!! 

- ----------
> From: JOzersky@aol.com
> To: celtics@igtc.com
> Subject: Disturbing Development and CM x-change
> Date: Tuesday, April 15, 1997 6:40 AM
> 
> Something else for us to worry about:  now this story in the globe about
Bird
> not showing up in Phoenix.  This is bad.  Here's something that might
amuse
> you, an exchange between me and Dean M. Laux, the editor of Celtics
Monthly:
> 
> 
> 
> To:  Dean M. Laux
> From: subscriber Josh Ozersky
> 
> I've been trying to put my finger on what is so disappointing about
Celtics
> Monthly.  At first I thought it was that the magazine is so clearly in
bed
> with the Celtics publicity department, and that that accounted for the
many
> softballs thrown in interviews  ("CM:  In your opinion, do we have to go
all
> out this coming offseason to get a center, whether through free agency, a
> trade, or the draft?  Carr:  Yes.") and the general Pollyanish tone of
the
> features. 
> 
> But I now realize that the problem is simpler and more solvable.  Celtics
> Monthly is simply aiming too low.  It assumes a readership that knows
almost
> nothing about basketball, and one with only a paassing knowledge of the
team,
> e.g. who don't know who Tim Duncan is, who is on the injured list, etc. 
The
> recent insert of forty players to watch in the coming tournament was
typical.
> What celtics fan doesn't know at least the names of the top players?  And
> what do we need a list of their names and heights for anyway?  Serious
> celtics fans would be much better served by in-depth scouting reports,
issue
> by issue of the top picks, all throughout this dismal year -- as opposed
to
> the slick, uninformative draft preview you no doubt have cooked up  ("Van
> Horn is a good outside shooter, but there are questions about whether he
can
> be an inside presence in the NBA.")  
> 
> For a magazine that only comes out a few times a year, which is a month
> behind news, and which only carries three or four features a month  (I'm
not
> including the press releases among those, e.g. "Jan Volk donates time to
the
> Jewish Home for the Aged"), Celtics Monthly doesn't do a very good job of
> helping serious celtics fans supplement what we get through the Globe,
the
> newsgroups, ESPN, CBS Sportsline, the Herald, SI, and half a dozen other
> sports news organs which presume much greater sophistication on the part
of
> their readers.
> 
> 
> Date:  Fri, Apr 11, 1997 1:55 PM EDT
> From:  CeltMonth
> Subj:  Re: Memo to Dean M. Laux: One Subscriber's Opinion
> To:      J Ozersky
> 
> Mr. Ozersky:
> Where have you been? Celtics Monthly is the OFFICIAL MAGAZINE OF THE
BOSTON
> CELTICS. Have you ever read FastBreak, Rip City, Hawk Talk, or any of the
> other official team publications in the NBA? If you want team public
> relations, take a look at those magazines, and then reread CM. You'll see
> that, as a team publication, we are far more "arms length" than any
other.
>      That having been said, we are talking about a team that, at this
> writing, is 13-64 and having its worst season ever, by far. Should we be
> telling you, a sophisticated fan, how bad the team is? Doesn't the record
> tell you that? Don't you get enough of that reading Peter May and Mike
> Holley? What purpose would be served by writing articles dripping with
> sarcasm about a team that is down, even if we weren't the OFFICIAL
MAGAZINE
> of the Celtics? Like the vast majority of our readers, who are fans, we
want
> to know what positives can be found and what can be built upon for the
> future. We have unusually good access to people around the league who can
help us to formulate our own opinions about these things, which may differ
> from those of the Celtics-but the Celtics, to their credit, don't object
to
> our voicing these opinions in their OFFICIAL MAGAZINE.
>      Unlike you, a large percentage of our readers do not get the Boston
> Globe and the Boston Herald, since they are from out of state or even out
of
> the country. We have to provide them with basic information that you may
> already know about. With all the other publications and services you
> subscribe to, you would appear to be unusually well informed, but we must
> deal with a broader audience.
>    Dean Laux
> 
> 

------------------------------

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