Re: Jordan and Pippen

[Shawn Roth <ufpdev!shawnr@uunet.uu.net>]

The first thing is that the 50 greatest may not have been a scam in so much as
it included some great players, but it was just a marketing ploy!  There is no
one group of people that could ever agree on exactly who the 50 greatest
players are.  And I didn't need the NBA to print up a list to make me think
about all the great players in the NBA.  The NBA could care less about who is
on that list, they just wanted to create some attention and talk about the NBA,
which they accomplished.  

Secondly, I would take Barkley in his prime over Pippen in his.  I also do
agree that Pippen was important to Jordan, but it is possible (we will never
know) that without Steve Kerr, Jordan wouldn't have won some championships, or
without Rodzilla, or without Bill Wennington, etc....  I guess in the end, it
is just personal opinion.  I don't think Pippen will be as good by himself, or
even as complete a player, as he was with Jordan.  Also, I'm not so sure that
Jordan couldn't have done it with a different player in Pippens position.  Who
that player would have been I don't know, but once again, it really doesn't
matter.

Thanks for your input.

Shawn

Originally from Sampath, Venkatesh:
> 
> Hi Shawn, 
>      Was away for a bit, so couldn't respond to your post. 
> 
> While I agree with you that Shaq doesn't deserve to be on the list based
> on what he has accomplished so far, I do not think the "50 greatest" is
> a scam. One wrong entry out of fifty does not lead to the trashing of
> the list as a whole. Yes, I do believe that Pippen belongs on that list.
> He is perhaps not leadership material, but that doesn't take away his
> basketball abilities. I agree he is not in Bird's class (or Jordan's for
> that matter), but I sure as hell would put him up there with Charles
> Barkley. Remember that the point we are discussing is whether Jordan
> would have won as many championships as he did without Pippen. To my
> mind, that's like saying would Bird have won those two without McHale
> (whom incidentally, I rate much higher than Barkley; in fact, Barkley
> himself, in a rare show of humility, confessed as much). It's pure
> conjecture, as you pointed out. Let's just say that given the choice,
> you would pick Barkley in the twinkling of an eyelid (over Pippen),
> whereas I would give the matter considerable thought (before eventually
> picking ......... Pippen???).    
> 
> >----------
> >From: 	Shawn Roth[SMTP:ufpdev!shawnr@uunet.uu.net]
> >Sent: 	26 August 1998 13:01
> >To: 	celtics@igtc.com
> >Subject: 	Re: Malone & $20mil
> >
> >Venkat,
> >   
> >   The NBA's 50 greatest players was a shame.  Come on, Shaq?, Pippen?, do
> >they
> >   really belong in the list of 50 greatest players of all times.  Shaq is
> >   good, but hasn't won crap, Pippen has at least one championships, but is
> >one
> >   of the 50 best.  Could he have lead a team by himself.  Could he have
> >scored
> >   at will like Jordan?  I think that the NBA 50 best list was just for pub.
> >I
> >   really don't think you can use that list as a reason Pippen shouldn't be
> >   trashed.
> >
> >   Pippen is important to Jordan, but Jordan is more important to Pippen.
> >   Pippen is an average shooting/point/small gaurd/forward.  And although he
> >   can do all those things well, I still do not look at him in the same class
> >   as a Jordan, Bird, Tragic Johnson, or even a Charles Barkley.  He can not
> >be
> >   counted on game in and game out to give 110% effort.  His outside shooting
> >   is streaky at times, and his attitude sucks.  Anyway, that is just my
> >   thoughts.  
> >
> >Have a good day,
> >
> >Shawn
> >
> >Originally from Sampath, Venkatesh:
> >> 
> >> Don't agree, Hart. While it's true that Pippen didn't win the
> >> championship (!) without Jordan, I have no doubt in my mind that a
> >> line-up of Jordan, Paxson, Cartwright and Grant would have had major
> >> difficulties winning a championship as would a line-up of Jordan,
> >> Rodman, Harper and Longley. 
> >> I don't know why Pippen keeps getting trashed on this list. He is one of
> >> the 50 best all-time. The defence he played on Mark Jackson during the
> >> conference finals was one of the reasons the Bulls got past the Pacers.
> >> I don't think Jordan keeps insisting Pippen be a part of any team he
> >> plays on because he (Jordan) likes the shape of his (Pippen's) face. In
> >> any case, this is a hypothetical argument and will remain one unless
> >> Pippen goes elsewhere, Jordan stays on with the rest of the Bulls and
> >> there's an NBA season (with or without drug-testing!). 
> >> 
> >> venkat
> >> 
> >> >----------
> >> >From: 	Sherry & Hart[SMTP:hartleyo@ix.netcom.com]
> >> >Sent: 	26 August 1998 11:05
> >> >To: 	MH348@aol.com
> >> >Cc: 	celtics@igtc.com
> >> >Subject: 	Re: Malone & $20mil
> >> >
> >> >MH348@aol.com wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> Jordan didn't excactly carry the Bulls to six titles. If it wasn't for
> >> >>Pippen
> >> >> he wouldn't even have one ring.
> >> >
> >> >I doubt that!
> >> >Jordan without Pippen means Bulls stll win, Bulls still win. 
> >> >Pippen without Jordan means Bull lose, Bulls lose.
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Hart
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> 
>