Re: Ryan And Holley Are On WEEI Now

[Kim Malo <kmalo19@idt.net>]

At 05:47 PM 10/29/98 -0900, Paul wrote:
>>Pretty interesting, but don't ask me about it.
>>Ray
>
>C'mon Ray.....please. We neeeeeeeeed your insight, your intelligence, your
>grace and charm.....and especially your hard work which we're all soooo
>grateful for, to keep us informed during this time of lockout darkness.
>Pleeeeeeeease Ray.

I'm not up to Ray's standard in the above qualities, but hey, I've got the
asbestos suit handy. The black league will keep fans from coming back vs
white baseball getting back it's white, older fans was only one part of
Holley's  article, but the main thrust of the WEEI talk. Ryan and Ron Borges
(I think) were on with Ordway and Holley, and FWIW, Ryan was the one who
agreed the most with Holley. Holley said that when the average white
basketball fan sees *any* black player, he thinks 'nigger'. Note that Holley
hesitated over using the term on the broadcast, but was urged to be frank.
And also note that Holley sometimes clearly throws things out just to see
what they might stir up, but none of this came across that way. He
discounted arguments that black players that had earned a certain amount of
contempt were viewed differently from other black players on their own
merits. Iverson and Spree and Hill mentioned, with the old MJ as counter
argument rightly, I think, shot down. Also discounted economics as a greater
element in resentment of players than race. In a disturbing to me parallel
to WASPs who say 'of course I'm not prejudiced, some of my best friends are
jewish/black/whatever' commented that he knew that about the average white
fan because he dealt with them (comments from me -a. he and those fans are
in Boston, which *is* racist with more racial tension than some other
places. I'm not black, but it's one of the first things I noticed when I
moved here. Not everybody, but it's a too constant undercurrent. b. it's not
usually a good idea on these things to extrapolate too far from your own
limited experience, i.e. there's truth to what he says [which others on the
show admitted] but it's an overgeneralization IMO to assume and say that
therefore the majority think that way [nigger, not even just
black/different]). Seemed to refuse to admit the possibility of reverse
racism/black to white racism by responding to any examples/comment that way
with 'oh, that's different' or the equivalent. Discussion about how it's OK
for black to call black nigger, but not white, with Holley regretting that
and all agreeing that it helps fuel the controversy (especially through
people who don't understand that there is a difference), but that's the way
it is.

Sorry, can't remember a lot of the other details. Basically an expansion on
his mindset that lead to the column comments. It was pretty disturbing to
me, not that I think what he says has no truth, but that an intelligent and
articulate member of the local media so clearly truly believes it's the rule
rather than the exception while also clearly believing that it never goes
the other way. The flip side of some of the Southie mentality that keeps the
racial tension going. And especially disturbing because his use of the word
nigger shows how deep he thinks the widespread anger, contempt, resentment,
etc goes -that's spit in your face, time for some social cleansing language
rather than just awkwardness over differences. I've always thought the fans
only like players who look like them argument annoyingly oversimplistic, as
I'm female and a multiple pro sports fan so obviously I'm not often rooting
for people who look like me. Still, as I pointed out on Holley, it's rarely
a good idea to extrapolate too far from your own experience and I can't help
but wonder which of us is more wrong. My own experience is clearly going to
be different from Holley's in many situations because of race and gender
differences (not totally different though, as there's plenty of gender
discrimination/put downs in sports on the field and -believe me- among fans.
Take my ongoing pet peeve with the catch phrases bitch slap or make someone
your bitch. The same people who get all self righteous and sanctimonious
about athletes accused of domestic violence *glorify* that same violence
against women by thinking that's a clever description of knocking around
someone who's beneath contempt. /soapbox mode off, but how many guys does
that occur to? Now you see why some of Holley's thoughts as a black man
might not occur to those who aren't and can't be brushed aside as easily as
one might think?). And along with being disturbed because he thinks that
way, it's disturbing to think of what has made him think that way, because
hearing and reading what he's said over the past couple years makes me
fairly sure he's not the sort to base it solely on others' experiences
reported second hand.

-Kim
Kim Malo
kmalo19@idt.net