Re: Mercer for Dampier

["Greg Odegaard" <gmodegaa@longvred.rmc.com>]

Jeremy thank you for your thoughtful responses; you make some great points.
 I guess I was trying to say that I and probably most of us wouldn't trade
Mercer for Dampier or all but maybe 50 (or maybe 100) others players in the
league at all positions.  Am blind or do I overate a player like Mercer,
Hell yes.  For many reasons he has huge upside, he is only 20 +/- years
old, he has what appears to be all the athletic, motivation and personnal
characteristics we could hope for in a starting guard/forward, and he has
played for Rick, with Walter and AW, yada yada yada.  Is he as good as the
lists of guards yourself and others have put together, maybe not today, and
frankly I don't care because the Celtics couldn't or wouldn't want to trade
for all but a couple of this list of guards.  Who here really wants any of
the guards on these lists older than 30, or head cases like Penny, Rider or
Iverson.  It is not unfair to ask if we want a championship team at any
cost now, without regard to people involved or the ability to sustain this
success.  This franchise is storied in long term success, "Celtic Pride",
and some of the players noted don't fit into any aspect of this concept.

Am I naive, about Mercer and Walker, to a degree yes.  But remember they
are on the roster, know the system and want to play their careers in
Boston.  There is real, not perceived value in these qualities. 

On the matter of the center, again we can succeed without a top tier
center.  Would I want one, of course.  There are probably only 6 or 7
current centers who themselves could or have carried their teams to a
championship (Hakeem, Ewing, Mourning, Clank, Robinson, Duncan, Mutombo). 
The rest of the 20+ teams are in the same boat as us, needing or wanting
strong players at the other positions, with a very good center.  Reality is
their aren't any other options.  With a great PF the likes of Rodman, et
al, the team can succeed without a top ten center.  Here again I am
assuming to a degree that AW might be better suited to being a great SF,
than PF.  Who knows.

You ask if I watch the games, certainly, but did you watch Sonics/Fakers
the other night.  Watch tonight, and unless Clank picks it up big time, it
will prove at least in the case of the Fakers, that a big body isn't
necessarily all it take to beat them.

I agree totally on your assesment of RP working with Dampier, and would be
glad to have him.  He would likely fill out that role nicely but not at the
cost of Mercer.  

Warning!  I am not comparing Mercer to MJ, but when MJ came into the league
no one except maybe him, expected him to be the total force he has become,
and even then he needed a strong supporting cast.  I don't expect Mercer to
be one of the very best at SG, heck he may be a better SF, ala Drexler, but
he will be good, and we won't need to fill that position for the next 10
years when he is around.

One last detail I believe the order of importance, on average for the 5
starting positions to a teams success is the following:

1. PG
2. Center
3. SG
4. PF
5. SF

This is based on leading the team first (PG), with scoring and defense
being close second and third.  Now of course a great center therefore is
more important to a SG in this scheme, but Dampier is less likely to be
great IMO than Mercer ever is.  By putting these words down, this order
could be argued at length.  

Thanks again Jeremy for your hearty dialogue,
Greg

----------
> From: Jeremy <jwarren@eecs.tufts.edu>
> To: celtics@igtc.COM
> Subject: Mercer for Dampier
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:43 AM
> 
> From: Evan LaGrasse <01elagra@jasper.uor.edu>
> 
> >That's why we're lucky you're not the "Ricktator." Hey, why don't we
> >trade
> >Walker for Bradley too and then we will have the most imposing twin
tower
> >tandem in the league. Robinson and Duncan watch out, Bradley and Dampier
> >are coming!!!
> 
> From: "Greg Odegaard" <gmodegaa@longvred.rmc.com>
> 
> >Sorry you can pick maybe 10 other players in the entire league that I
> >think
> >the average C's fan would trade for Mercer, and Dampier is not likely in
> >the top 50.
> 
> 	The problem with a lot of sports fans is that they overrate their
> own players.  Greg your basically implying that Mercer is one of the top
> ten players in the league when he isn't even in the top 50.  Mercer is at
> this point an average starting two guard with a lot of upside.  This type
> of player is available in every draft.  Here are the eastern conference 
> two guards who are as good or better than Mercer:
> 
> Penny Hardaway
> Allan Houston
> Kerry Kittles
> Kendall Gill
> Michael Jordan
> Steve Smith
> Joe Dumars
> Jerry Stackhouse
> Reggie Miller
> Ray Allen
> 
> Now I admit a few of these are debatable, but I don't see Mercer making
> the all-star team in the next five years.  On the other hand, with the
> lack of centers in the eastern conference, I could see Pitino developing
> Dampier into a near all-star.
> 
> And Greg do yourself a favor and stop deluding yourself with this you
> don't need a good center to win a title talk.  Houston won two titles in
> the last ten years.  Five of the other eight were won by the Bulls.  They
> have the greatest player of all time and one of the top 50 (if not top
25)
> of all time.  To think that Mercer and Walker are the next Jordan or
> Pippen is a pipe dream.  And even if they are, the Bulls still needed
> solid centers (Cartwright in the early years and Longley now) and tough,
> dirty work, rebounding power forwards (formerly Horace Grant and now
> Dennis Rodman) to win their titles.  The Celtics don't have any players
> that meet these qualifications (unless you're hoping Popeye Jones is the
> next Dennis Rodman).
> 
> I'm not saying Mercer for Dampier is the best possible scenario, I was
> just responding to someone who asked what it would take to get him.  I
> still like the idea of packaging Travis Knight, Dana Barros, and our
> lottery pick to the Lakers for Elden Campbell.  That would leave us with
> all of our cap room to get the best available forward that we can afford.
> 
> Why are so many people hung up on getting a back up two guard?  Bruce
> Bowen is a great back up.  Let's worry about filling out the starting
five
> first.  With two more frontcourt starters, our bench would look very
> solid.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
>