once again...

["Robert A. Bowman" <Robert.A.Bowman-1@tc.umn.edu>]

the greatest of all time is...

In message <199806081911.PAA24975@reynolds-bh.rmc.com> "Greg Odegaard" writes:
> I third this concept and add a few cents more:
> 
> By the standards put down by the esteemed Dan Forant, Russell is hands down
> the greatest player in the history of league.  I have bantied the idea that
> though he is a great PG, Stockton will retire not one of the greats due to
> his likely inability to winning a title.  This is the standard for
> determining greatness; Being the leader of a great team.  Russell beats
> them all. Save for scoring, and Russ didn't BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE TO,
> Russell controlled the entire game like MJ only wishes.  For those who
> might not agree, go back to comments made by each at the presentation of
> the MVP this year to MJ by BR.  MJ is smart enough to know who is at the
> top of the heap.  

Just in case you didn't know it, you've got it nailed.  
> 
> With no disprespect to our esteemed Bill Cooper, yesterday's game shows the
> depth to which the talent pool has dropped in this league, in shooting and
> virtually all aspects of the game.  The dilution of talent is shocking,
> making for most games to be complete boors.  For fans of the game, all but
> a few games in this years playoff season have been a comedy of errors to
> some degree.  Look at game 1, all critical parties and critics noted how
> poorly both teams played.  You rarely heard this about a game from the 60's
> or more recently the great 80's.  The games were played to the peak of
> talent and ability.  It is easy for some to put MJ on a pedestal, but if he
> were playing during the heydays of the game, with this team he would be
> fighting for his life just to get to the finals (oh sorry that is exactly
> the scenario played out a week ago).
> 
You make a very strong point here in that the quality of game has suffered and 
in the showcase event worldwide you get games like yesterday's.  I do give the 
Bulls credit for great team defense and have to admit that MJ is crucial in this
scheme, as is harper, pippen and the rest of them.  Where does this heritage 
come from?  that of tightening down the d in the finals? why Russell, of course.
I've been enjoying this finals from a historical perspective in that the bulls 
are coming one half of the way to what Russell and the Cs accomplished in the 
day.  If you really think about it this Bull's team is at best #4 of the top 5. 
Russell #1, Bird #1A, Magic #2.


> To compare Bird to MJ or to Russell for that matter, is pointless.  MJ is
> certainly the greatest player of his era (the 90's), but it is all relative
> to the poor overall condition to the league.  Top 5 at best.
> 
> One name forgotten in this entire discussion of greatness is George Mikan. 
> Who defined the game in the first 10 years of the league, won nearly as
> many titles and like Wilt led to rules changes to keep him down.  He must
> be mentioned in the top 10 players of all time.   Arguments?
> 

> Greg
> > 
> > Not only do I agree with you but I would like to add my 2 cents also. I
> > think that MJ is probably the greatest player to play the game BUT he is
> > doing all this without the benefit of much competition. What I mean by
> > this is that Bird and Magic were winning all the Championships in the
> > 80's and if there was only a Bird without a Magic or VICE VERSA, the C's
> > or the Lakers would have won them all like MJ is doing in Chicago. The
> > year they beat the Lakers with Magic 2 starters were hurt although they
> > did play(SCOTT and WORTHY and Magic was playing with a pulled hamstring)
> > for their series This brings me to my last thought; Bill Russell won 11
> > of 13 championships beating the Great Wilt each year except 1967. You
> > would think that there would be a case for Russell to be considered the
> > greatest player of all time to play the game but alas all he did was win
> > all the time without the flair and whining. 
> > Regards, 
> > Hart

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think it's generally understood that Russell is 
indeed the greatest player of all time.  In my opinion it's a tossup between 
Bird, Magic and Jordan for second. Although it's probably Bird. Chamberlain is 
maybe in the top 10, ok maybe 7 after Abdul-Jabbar, Havlicek and West/Robertson 
pick 'em.

I could probably write more especially since I just spoke with 
westcoastlakerfans earlier this evening. Needless to say, the situation out 
there brings an Irishsmile to my face.

Bob