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Empty Glass and Cobain



>From: Keithjmoon70@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Empty Glass /lyrics
>
>Rough boys is full of homo lyrics.  Pete said that it is a song about 
>homosexuality.

Wot?!
If he did he was probably joking.
I thought I read that Pete wrote this song regarding the up and coming Punk
movement underway (Sex Pistols, etc.).  How he wanted more sensitivity out
of them, or some such....
Also wanted to comfort their anger, etc....

>I comforted myself with the fact that in reference to the rough toys under 
>the sheets it said "Nobody knows HER." That, and those two ladies on the 
>cover all up in Pete's grille.

Ahh, needed comforting did ya!  A bit o'fraid of those boy thoughts deep in
your mind are ya!
Can't quite feel relaxed around boys in leatha, can you????

Just in case...........  ;-)

I think Pete would say....."mission accomplished".   :-)

>From: "Schrade, Scott" <sschrade@ascpl.lib.oh.us>
>Subject: Re: Pete reviews Kurt Cobain's journals
>
>> I don't know.  Isn't exactly the type of media that Pete needs 
>> at the moment.
>
>What?!  The guy's not allowed to defend himself?

Now did *I* say that?

>And like Rich said,
>nothing Pete said was off the mark.  Truth hurts sometimes.

Yep, it does.  And, Rich is right.

>Well, Mr. Cobain started it.

Nanny-nanny boo-boo!   :-p  

>Too bad.

Heh-heh.

>Besides, I thought Pete ex-
>pressed some admiration for Cobain in the piece, too.  It wasn't com-
>pletely negative.

Nope, not *completely*.  But, his negative, although accurate, back handed
comments more than made up for the positive stuff.

>But, by the same token, it wasn't completely pos-
>itive & gushing, either, the way much of the commentary on Cobain is.

Ya see, I don't see this.  Where is all this gushing commentary on Cobain?

>People have been trying to bridge generational gaps for years.  It
>rarely works on a large scale.  The majority of the masses don't have 
>open minds.  And that's where it starts.

Yes, and if we all give up, it'll never happen.
We need to keep fighting for it!

>Hey!

Is for horses!!!  (had to dig *way* back to find that one)
  
>The kids *are* alright!  They just gotta watch what they say 
>about Pete, that's all!

BS.  They're all gonna gun for him now.  Pete basically called "The Kids"
leader...their generational spokesman, an immature drug addict.
How did you feel when your dad called *you* that??????????

See me point?

(setting the record straight...I have no idea if Papa Schrade ever said the
above words to Son-Schrade....just making a point here)

>The guy's just too thoughtful, intelligent, 
>& experienced to have to take any shit.  I'm happy he's still defending
>himself.

It was accurate.  Like calling black..black.  It was emotionless, though.
Pete could have smoothed the edges by showing more sympathy, or pointing
more at the industry as a contributor to the final outcome, or any number of
things.

But, as you say, the truth does hurt.  It's just....why did it have to come
from Pete's mouth?

>From: Rich <legalize@xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: Pete reviews Kurt Cobain's journals 
>
>Pete's not perfect either and his behavior isn't always one I'd want
>to emulate either.  He has his nasty, spiteful side.  He also has the
>balls to get up and say the truth, even when its unpopular -- and the
>truth about Cobain -is- unpopular.  If you voice the truth about him,
>the first words of any response you're likely to get are "yeah, but..."
>as if that excuses things.  The thing about Pete is that his better
>side -is- an aspiration to something higher, better and bigger than
>himself.  Whereas the most inspirational Cobain can seem to be is a
>desire to be not so fucked up a person.

Yes, perhaps, but you're comparing a person of 57 years to a person of far
less.
What gets me is how similar the two are at the identical stages in their
lives.
Although, Cobain doesn't seem nearly as insecure as Pete did when he was
Cobain's age.
I'm talking about attitude and the such....not musical ability,
intelligence, etc.
And, let's not forget that Pete was pulled back from the ledge (literally)
once or twice as well.
I'd say it's sheer luck that Pete is still around casting judgement like
this.
He could just as easily be dead with other rock artists talking about him as
an anti-hero.
Hind sight is 20/20.

>Nirvana is great rock-n-roll, but it doesn't inspire me
>towards anything other than not being a depressed suicidal junkie.

Gee, sounds like you're talking about Pete during a particular stage of his
life in the above statement.

>From: "Schrade, Scott" <sschrade@ascpl.lib.oh.us>
>Subject: Re: Pete's uncut version of Cobain review
>
>> I can't help but feel that by deleting the above, The Observer is 
>> in a way trying to perpetuate a generational feud between Pete and 
>> Kurt.
>
>But they also deleted the following: 
>
>"With respect to my academic ambitions for it, this book is a travesty. 
>Kurt hated and despised the academia of rock, but we both helped to 
>build it, and I am rather more enthusiastic about it."
>
>He says in the deleted passage that "With respect to my academic ambit-
>ions for it, this book is a travesty."
>
>In other words:  I thought this book was going to be full of intelli-
>gent (Pete uses "academic") insight but instead it's full of "infantile
>scribblings."

I'm following you.  I too found this part to be interesting.
But, I took it as a swipe at the people who put the notebook scribbling
together.
In other words, Pete was swinging at the publishers.
Kind of helps my argument that The Observer is twisting things here.  In
this case, The O is protecting the publishers from Pete.

>Then, still in the deleted passage, he says that even though Cobain 
>"hated and despised the academia of rock" (i.e. he didn't feel rock was
>in any way an intelligent art form), he ironically helped build the idea
>that rock can be something greater, something higher.
>
>That's almost like saying Cobain was too stupid to realize that he was
>helping to create what he wanted to destroy.  So that's another thinly-
>veiled jab that was edited out.

Now Cousin.... this was Pete showing the world that he had something of
significance in common with Cobain.....they both built major milestones in
rock.  That's what "academia of rock" means.  Rock's history. The school of
rock.  Interesting how you write "rock is something greater, something
higher".  'Cause Pete's telling everyone that Cobain shared Pete's vision
and regard for rocks place in society.  It was a compliment, ....ok, and a
pat on his own back at the same time.
I hear ya, but I also see it as Cobain trying to be too cool for school, and
thus acting like what he was doing was stupid.

>And finally, again, still in the deleted passage, comes the ultimate not-
>so-thinly-veiled jab.  With regard to the "academia of rock" (i.e. the
>*intelligence* or *loftiness* of rock), Pete says, "I am rather more
>enthusiastic about it."
>
>Now one might think Pete is just saying he has higher *hopes* for rock,
>but I read it as Pete saying he sets higher *standards* for *his* brand
>of rock; unlike the "pathetic, lost and heroically stupid" efforts of
>Mr. Cobain.

Hmmm, feeling limber now?  Cause that was a stretch!   Ha!
The above is just Pete patting himself on the back, setting the record of
what he's about straight, and saying he's matured to the point of being able
to embrace the "loftiness" of rock, unlike someone who still thinks it's
cool to poo-poo such things.

>So, not all that was edited out was complimentary.  Some of the harsh-
>ness was taken out, too.

I'm not seeing that.  Quite the contrary.

>God, that Pete Townshend is one deep motherfucker, ain't he?  Phew!  
 
Sho as hell is!  Ya got to look at everything he says from about 5 different
views, and then we probably *still* don't have it right!

Kevin in VT
(BTW, you've got great points.  I'm playing devils advocate on some of
this.)