Re: Ticket terrorists

[Deliphus01@aol.com]

Didn't Jeff get offended after the 9-11 discussions and unsubscribe? 

Jon:

No, that was two other people. Seriously. Both are back now.
> 
> which love of money will lead one is abandoning Christianity, rather than

Alan:

Someone ought to tell that to Fallwell, Robertson, etc. and so on!
> 
> your rationale, so be it, but what do you have to offer the Jews,
> Buddhists, and atheists on why not to sell bread (or tickets) for market
> value?

That's not why I used the quote; you asked why I felt that personal gain was 
the lowest motivation. If you don't like the quote, in either form, then 
let's just say it's a given in regard to humans.
> 
> First you say the temptation to make money is the lowest motivation

No I didn't, I said "Money is the root of all evil." You corrected the quote, 
but that's not what *I* said.
> 
> you say self-interest is. Either way, I disagree.

You have that right, but I still believe that it's a fact.> 
> 
> I do remember it, and I reject it from top to bottom.

That too is your right, but I will still believe that it's a higher motive 
than self interest. And higher motives are a good thing...that's what I've 
ALWAYS gotten out of Townshend's lyrics, and why I like them as much as I do.

  Countries 
   should>  exist to serve individuals (by protecting them), not the other way 
> around.

Too many people feel the government "owes" them something. I don't. I also 
think the government's only job should be the offering of services that are 
better managed collectively than individually (such as roads, schools) and to 
interact with other governments, but THAT'S ABOUT IT.

> That famous quote of Kennedy's would have been right at home in the mouth
> of Hitler or Goebbels.

As would most of Bush Jr's. How about "You're either with us or against us!"
You can twist anything people say...but we both know the meaning of his 
statement would not fit anything Goebbels might believe, while on the other 
hand most of Bush's would.
> 
> Your incessant Bush-bashing would ring a lot truer if you had pointed out
> Clinton's faults every day of HIS tenure.

Why when so many were willing to do it for me? Besides, I find a distinct 
difference in what someone does in their personal life and the laws they 
enact as an elected official. Clinton was elected President...Bush was not by 
the most definitive hand count which (for the record) did not include any 
chads of any kind but only clearly defined votes.
> 
> Um, yeah, but he's against it and I'm for it.  That would make our
> positions UNlike.

Yet still concerning the same subject. You're getting away from the original 
meaning now.
> 
> You said, "The focus in my store is low prices." I fail to see the 
> difference.

Do you own a business? If so, you know there's a psychology to it, or it 
fails. And just because you have a discount store doesn't mean you have 
enough money. Does ANYONE have enough money?
There are things I am not willing to do to get more money. I don't NEED any 
more, you could say, but who knows what the future holds? 
> 
> selflessness, it's been considered a virtue for a couple millennia now
> (wrongly, IMO). I really have no idea what you're talking about it being
> criminalized in the '80s.

Ever hear of junk bonds? Civil rights (does anyone remember when we had civil 
rights?)?
BTW, I didn't say "criminalized," I said when did it become crime, which is 
an expression and not meant to be taken literally. Most people wouldn't, 
anyway.
> 
> Are you really saying you're happier if you sell a CD to an appreciative
> customer for $6 than $7?  Because that's what that sentence says, and I
> don't believe it.

I guess you won't believe it, then. Because it does make me feel good when 
someone is jazzed about paying a dollar less than they expected to. It's good 
for future business. They leave happy. They tell their friends. They shop 
with me instead of someone else. They wait for a CD instead of rushing out 
and buying it new.
I guess it's just different in Texas. But everywhere else I've been people 
appreciate being treated with kindness and respect. Far too few salespeople 
do that. I set out in the beginning to avoid that at all costs.
> 
> That's fine.  You're not doing any harm.

I am in fact doing good. Not only am I recycling, but I bring enjoyment and 
appreciation of Art to people.
> 
> do want to make more money can do so by developing a product or service
> people want, and the more useful the product is the more they'll make for
> it. If they find such a thing, we are all the better for it.

I suppose, but it would sit better if they did it for the good of the people.

> If you're not trying to maximize the
> income from your store, to that extent you're running it as a hobby rather

That's a cynical way of looking at it, but not uncommon. But it's not the way 
I think. I am confident in my abilities so I'm not trying to scratch every 
cent out of everyone. When I need money, I'll find a way to get it. I always 
do.
> 
> Now you could say the world would be better if everyone were wealthy enough
> to spend their time on hobbies, and I'd agree, but it's not and just
> because you can afford to do so isn't a basis for claiming a higher moral
> ground than those who can't or choose not to.

That's twisting what I said completely! I never said I was wealthy.

> I find it more than a little discouraging that you assume that a conclusion
> contrary to your own beliefs is based on bias.

Uh...did you READ the title of the book?

  Left-wing as he is, I'm
> sure Hitchins was ecstatic when Clinton was elected, but he obviously
> became thoroughly disillusioned BEFORE he wrote and titled his book.

Good for him. What a prince. I'm glad he thinks everyone is as perfect as he 
is.

  Is no > one but yourself competent to judge facts?

No one else, it seems at times, understands that we're electing humans here 
and the sum is more important than the nitpicky numbers. Overall what Clinton 
did for America made it better off. Overall what Bush is doing is making 
things worse...MUCH worse.
> 
> that they weren't.  What are the dues for your "CREDIT Clinton for
> everything" book club?

As I said, I don't push that side either.
> 
> I'm sure you've heard of the psychological phenomenon of "projection".
> You're giving a pretty good example with your seeing George Bush lurking
> behind every negative aspect of your life.

Only the political ones.
> 
> First, the media WAS quite happy to laud Hillary (I still have a

Gee, you must get a different CNN down there than we do here.
> 
> If presenting you with information refuting your claims is telling you what
> to think

It would of course depend on the information, but you must consider the 
source. There's none more bitter than those who feel they've been screwed. So 
this should be taken into account.
> 
> Hopefully at least some others reading this will learn from it.

That's more than a little arrogant. It doesn't become you.

> Deciding to "snooze" had no effect on my ability (or lack there of) to get
> the up-close seats.

Kevin:

Then stop bitching about it!
> 
> Well, that's exactly what I did, and exactly what I will do if the
> opportunity presents itself.

A man after my own heart.

> But, I'll be re-selling my original tix at cost.

Watch out; Alan won't believe you're doing that.
> 
> That's not what I meant.  I was speaking in regards to contracting with
> Brokers.

That's got to be a part of their calculations on getting their costs back, 
and eventual profit.
> 
> Not fair.  You can't use this argument against a fellow Democrat.

I don't see that there's a party line involved here.

    "They have miscalculated me as a leader."
             George "Mr. Salty" Bush

         
               Cheers                 ML