Re: Society w/o Nirvana

["Mark R. Leaman" <mleaman@sccoast.net>]

> Truthfully, I'm still grieving about it today.

Scott:

It's time to move on, dude.

> had a list of the all-time best rock & roll singers & Kurt Cobain ranked
way
> up there, far ahead of Daltrey.

That's just stupid.

> forgotten.  Why is that, please?  Seems like sticking around shows a lot
> more guts.

Keets:

I know...I've never done heroin, for instance, because I knew better even at
13...however, an ex-heroin user is a hero and I'm not.

> Not quite that.  It's a satire of the "true believer," I think, who gives
up
> control of their own life in exchange for oneness with a group.

I stand by what I said. I remember the dissatisfaction first hand. In many
ways, it still exists (particularly due to their dastardly political agenda,
which should get them taxed) but I've noticed a lot of older people running
back to it as they get closer the "big D." I guess that's the easiest thing
to do. But, as somoene recently sent to me: God wouldn't chose a bim with
big hair and bad makeup to sell his wares.

> religion goes, the spiritual quality feels good, and then also, some
people
> can't cope with choices.  They need an institution (like the army) or a
> messiah (like Tommy) to tell them what to do.

Should we get into this discussion? I agree, and probably with a lot
stronger views than you. To me, it's a "get out of Hell free" card and I'm
not buying the slouching off of responsibility with a mere "I'm sorry, I
repent."

> mean, after all, look what happened to Jesus.

A martyr is a great way to consolidate your power. Did he mean to die like
that, was that a mistake or did he know his messy death would be a
record-breaker?
I only want to know...and I won't even make the joke about crucifying four
more and getting a whole week off.

> to break free of the true believers and achieve a clearer vision.

I don't read it like that. I think Jimmy was doing what all adolescents do:
trying to fit in. And being a member of a gang is one way to be accepted
when you feel you're isolated. But, as Pete pointed out, he was still "one."
I think breaking from the Mods is no more than the realization that they
weren't his answer.

> It's such a cool concept.  I wonder if Pete's got any of the songs stuck
> away that he'd want to dust off and have another look at.

Or has that time passed?

> examples that I like.  There's generally nothing wrong with rap--it's an
> intellectual more than a musical exercise, I think,

Um...I think I'll have to disagree with you on that one, although I'll
refrain from the Rap-type response of "You so stupid."
To me, Rap is gutter, meant to be gutter as surely as Punk is meant to be
gutter. I guess I should say "street" but the subject matter...you know...

> Well Mark here's a Who connection to chew on: Why is it that The Who's
> biggest following has always been in Northern industrial cities?

Brian:

That's an easy one. You forget, I also live in the South which is the area
in the US where The Who are least popular (and it's the least industrial).
As intellectual as Pete can become, and that's quite, the delivery is more
often like a sledgehammer than a feather. Which those hard-working factory
folk tend to like, that heavy-handedness. Witness the bands from these
areas, whether MC5 or Black Sabbath.

> a plane crash after the 1973 U.S. tour. They'd be as big as The Beatles
now

See, I have to amend your statement: they'd be as big as The Doors, not The
Beatles. Rightly or wrongly, The Beatles will always have the edge over the
other bands. They broke up just in time, too...Let It Be is pretty weak (and
yes I know it wasn't really the last album).

> Because they came out of a Northern industrialized city?

Keets:

London may be industrialized, but it's not in the North of England.
Birmingham, Liverpool...they are. The Beatles were those wankers from the
North, at first...never to conquer London!

> The Who don't quite have a feel for the
> pick-up-truck-with-a-pit-bull-in-the-back Southern red-neck's concerns.

Thank any sort of deity you can imagine!!!! Let them have "Skynyrd." I sure
don't want them! 38 Special, Charlie Daniels, yech! Take it away, take it
away now...

> the movement has never reached the complexity of "pure" rock.  Mark's
> complaint about churches and children de-radicalizing rock applies in that
> case as well.

It depends on how you look at it. Country might have picked up some Rock,
but Elvis was a lot more Country than The Who. British Rock isn't as Country
as its American cousin, and thereby doesn't sell as well in the US South.
And as Rock as it might become, Country is always a decade or two out of
step. Are we talking about Garth Manson here?

> Whereas, actually the reality never quite lives up to that early genius?

Don't forget that music has its time, too. And Classic Rock's time has
passed. So no matter how great an album a CR band might produce, it will
never be as commerical as the latest thing's. At best it will be nostalgic.

> I believe the moneymen are only following the public and the reason what
you
> feel is "good" music doesn't sell and doesn't get played on the radio is
> that most people's taste in music is crap.

Brian:

This must be my "disagreeable" day. The moneymen unfortunately do follow the
public, but not accurately. They follow sales rather than likes or dislikes.
They think just because a lot of Steve Miller music sold in the `70's,
people want to hear him now. And that's not accurate...because it follows
that the more sold, the more it gets played while more people who would like
it already have it and would rather hear something else.
This in turn sets their agenda...so if a band is popular, then the labels
are all out to pick up other bands which sound like them and end up burning
out the sound completely till no one can abide the original band. Then in
ten years it'll all be regurgitated on the radio endlessly.

> If you appreciate good music (or any art) count your blessings but face it
> that you will always be in a minority.

THAT I agree with!

> CAN'T.  Not everybody can be a busty 19-year-old blonde,

Keets:

Uh...I never wanted to be busty. But I used to be a 19 year-old blonde.


"The new President of The United States is
    what I would call a cunt."
              Pete Townshend, 11/2000

               Cheers                 ML