Re: BBE vs. STH/Popularity

[mleaman@sccoast.net (Mark Leaman)]

>Absolutely it doesn't.  But what do you think does determine
>greatness?  I have this same argument with friends an awful lot.

Brad:

OK, now you've opened the can of worms. 
My own judgement on greatness has a lot to do with timelessness (in which
Stairway would qualify, I admit) and influence on other band who do quality
music. That may seem a tough thing to describe, but I think that in some
ways it's obvious...at least to my ear. The bands that were influenced by
Stairway (or I should say Zeppelin) aren't of the same quality (in other
words, 90% of them play mindless imitations of Zep) as the ones influenced
by The Who (who are on the whole a LOT more original and influencial in
their own rite).

>I think popularity is not the end-all and be-all of greatness, but
>it's certainly a big factor.  50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong and
>all that.  Critical acclaim is also a big factor (something Michael
>Jackson notably gets very little of).  I like using radioplay of a
>song 10 or more years later as a good measuring stick.  If a song is
>still being played on the radio 10 years later, it's got something.
>If it's still attracting new fans 10 years later, it's got something.

Oh, but 50,000,000 fans of Frampton CAN be wrong.
I can't use your airplay measuring stick for many reasons, the primary of
which is that radio is composed of lists of what it is thought that people
want to hear. Many a worthy song has never gotten any airplay at all, nor
does now. 
Then there's the fact that radio sludge (which is what I call Kansas,
Journey, Genesis, Lynryd Synyrd, and so on) is played MORE than an obviously
better band like The Who. That music is hollow but easy to listen to, which
makes it perfect radio fodder.
When was the last time you heard The Beatles' Tomorrow Never Knows (a truly
innovative and influencial song) on the radio?
Besides, twice now I've gone to the Hard Rock Cafe here and heard them
playing YMCA...and I don't go very often at all. The bad songs never die,
and the great ones are forgotten.

>> The Who never has, nor will they ever play "second fiddle" to Zep (or anyone
>> else, for that matter). 
>
>Fact is, they do.  Again, kind of hard to pin down exactly what
>playing second fiddle means, yet...

No, and my reasoning is apparent above. It's more than just what people want
to hear, it's what the song influences etc. The Who influenced more bands
(including ZEP) and has a larger spread of influence. LZ only influenced one
sub-genre of music. Heavy Metal, and formula HM at that.
The Who only play 2nd fiddle to Zep to those who know little about Rock
music, and merely listen to music for entertainment.

>Unless you will also claim that Zep plays second
>> fiddle to Michael Jackson, who is more popular and has sold more albums and
>> can make more on a tour. 
>
>Not sure he's more popular, or that he's sold more albums total, or
>could make more.  You might be right, but you'd have to prove that to
>me.

THRILLER sold more albums that any before it. There's your proof. That
doesn't count the huge touring that he's done worldwide and the other
albums, which were no pikers saleswise. Even in the face of child-molesting,
he's still popular.

>One of the best Rock songs ever
>> written is Respectable Street. Can you name the artist?
>
>XTC?

Very good!

>Seriously, I've never heard it.  Again, sez who that it's one of the
>best.  You?  The XTC list?  The Cultural Elite Establishment?  Jackie
>Mason's guide to the best rock songs?
>Same question, what criteria do you want to use.

You should hear it, and more. Great and intelligent band, from start to finish.
I use the ML ear guide to great music. OK, I've been able to pick out the
quality bands since the early '70s...and time has proven me right, so far.
Call it a gift, or call it my ego, but honestly I do seem to have an ear for
the bands that matter. The bands I've chosen as far back as `71 are still
considered to be among the best, and the new ones I like tend to endure. I
picked up on XTC with their fourth album, and they are still putting out
some of the best music around...even if they do take three years between
albums...





                   Cheers                   ML

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."  L. Long