Re: Mardi Gras (No Who Content)

Mark, Re:

> Describing the MG is exactly what I've been doing, and in fact it IS tied to
> the Xtian observances of Epiphany and Ash Wed. So what's your point?

My point is that Mardi Gras is not tied to Christian *beliefs* as you said.  I
repeated that point several times and tried to explain, but you don't seem to
listen.  Instead, you are making a monster of this discussion where a simple
excuse or clarification on your side could end it.

> >   ) It's a time for "getting your sins out." This has to do with giving
> >   ) things up for Lent, and Lent is a Xtian belief...so yes it does have to
> >   ) do with Xtian beliefs.
> 
> That's completely true, so again what's the problem?

I'm repeating myself again:  Lent is not a Christian *belief*, and Mardi Gras
has nothing to do with Christian *beliefs*.  Will you listen this time?

> >So, IMHO, I have done nothing wrong.
> 
> Except of accuse me of putting down Xtianity in this note, which I did not.

No, I have only accused you of talking about Christian beliefs mindlessly.
Read the previous notes again.

> >No, that's in fact exactly my point.  You are always referring to how thing
> >are `called' and what is `said' about Christian believes. 
> 
> Because, my dear Bernd, what a thing is known as or for defines its meaning
> in the end. Surely you're aware of that. Mislabeling something is always
> dangerous.

Another nice attempt to misunderstand my point.  If you had quoted the whole
paragraph of mine instead of only two sentences, you would have seen that I was
talking about your arguing based on rumours and assumptions.  It's not notions
we are talking about here, it's the statements behind them.

> I've got news for you, Bernd: Pentacost isn't an important holiday (at least
> here), certainly not in the same league with Xmas and Easter.

Sorry, this isn't news, this is wrong.  Christmas, Easter, and Pentecost are
the three major holidays of Christianity.  Period.  Pentecost might be less
popular, but not less important.  Personally, I like it most among the three.

> Did I say that I had retained knowledge of every little Xtian "holiday" over
> the years? Shesh! I've got better things to think about.

Fine.  But then you should also have better things to talk about than
Christianity over and over again.  Your continuous provocation sucks.

> Well, I never said I wasn't arrogant. I am, and am willing to admit it. I've
> learned to live with it.

Then live with it silently and on your own.  Others might not be interested in
your personal problems.

> >   } It has been tied with Xtian beliefs now in that it begins at Epithany
> >   } (in January) and ends the day before Ash Wed.
> 
> Which is nothing more than the truth. An accurate description of Mardi Gras.
> That is when it begins and ends. Are you now going to claim that those two
> dates have NOTHING to do with Xtian beliefs?

Sure they have.  But Mardi Gras hasn't.

> You want to argue Mardi Gras with me, then go to one first.

I don't want to argue Mardi Gras itself.  Again you are trying to distract from
what really is the topic.  And, yes, I know at least German carnival traditions
from my own experience, but this is not very important here.

> >> You should read my posts with more attention to what's written.
> 
> >Interesting that of all listers YOU are saying this...
> 
> It's you that's missing the point, not me.

Ah, really?  Well, I'd leave it to the few observers we still have to judge
your statement...

> Unless you're now indicating that I have a history of misunderstanding on
> this list.

You have a history of turning simple discussions into long and incoherent
sequences of arguments by simply ignoring what others really write and mean.
That's it.

> Of course, personal attacks always come when the attacker runs out of valid
> arguments.

Interesting.  Now look back to the quotes above and tell me who was the first
one to attack personally?

> Man, you need to relax.

Yes.  It's late night.  I ought to sleep before a long journey.  And you are
wasting my time.

> I do hope you won't be angry with me when we meet in NYC.

That depends on your behaviour over there.  I think it is my duty to warn you
that I become mindlessly aggressive if insulted.  So beware... :-)

Cheers,

Bernd