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Re: The Who vs The RestSun Dec 7 13:19:36 PST 1997



	Still not believing this thread has gotten this far, I guess I should step up and offer my two cents...(in flame retardent jammy's!) First of all I think we're throwing some terms around far too loosely and generally. Influences and having elements of another bands style in your music are two different things. The Who and Zep and Stones and Beatles and Cream and Yardbirds and Hendrix and Kinks and nearly the entire British scene were all contemporaries. They all have the same or similar backgrounds and influences and since they are all working in music at (generally) the same time and (generally) playing a lot of the same types of Bills and circuits and watching the same musicians play, then YES they will all have elements of each others music and styles in their works. Pete lifted his windmill from Keith of the Stones...he wasn't Influenced by him, he just took an element he liked. EVERYONE watched Hendrix and took stuff from him... he took stuff from the Beatles... Ask them who their INFLUENCES are and they will give you a whole list of blues and folk and skiffle guys. Influences are what give individual players their focus and direction. Another example... a band I played in, (a trio, but not a power trio, quartets like the Who are not power trios you have to be a trio...) my Influences at the time were Zappa, The Who, Metallica, and The New Wave of British Heavy Metal, Gary the guitar players influences were The Clash, Elvis Costello, Blue Oyster Cult, The Kinks, Richard Thompson, and the drummer was really into Classic Rock, some christian rock, and alternative dance stuff. Our bands music sounded like REM meets the Gin Blossums with Pearl Jam angst mixed in. Our individual Influences produced our sound that has elements of other bands sounds in it.
	Led Zeppelin is a blues based band that was designed to be a showcase for Jimmy Page. It was for him to be able to go out each night and do the superstar guitar player show on every song. The only reason they have a blonde singer is because he by chance got to meet with Robert Plant. At one point the slots were offered to Moon and John in which John would sing. So they would be copying Cream at that point? No... we shouldn't mix random chance with people copying other bands. They would be copying elements of the Who for sure then! This format would not of been as successful as the Plant version, but it would actually have been closer to what Page wanted.
	Zepp was also a blues based progressive unit that was designed for Page to solo and jam and for the hippy stoned audience to go "Wow Man!" It was a showcase for Page and was feeding into the 'progressive' movement of impromptu jams and long solos that focus on the hot shot guitar player. It eventually became more of band with Plant's Tolkein fantasy songs showing up all over, but even on the Houses of the Holy tour they were still doing 15 minute versions of most songs that featured Page almost exclusively. They had elements of the Who style in their fiery aggression and their want to add more to the over all concept than just collections of songs. I would almost say it was Daltry who took a thing or two from Page in his bare chest bravdo.
	The Who were very against, (for the most part), this hippy dippy lay back and groove on the funky jams man...stuff and came at music from more of a working mans ethic. Note Pete's work outfits during Tommy and their later change to regular street clothes on the stage. They were about creating art and bringing the audience into the music as one with the band. Pete was about the angst and drama of high story telling and concepts using the Beatles established power pop format. Short quick tunes of naughty and funny and snide power pop/proto punk fire. He wanted his work to say something about art and society and young people and have a relavence. They took off on a track that included bands like the Kinks and the Small Faces. They had elements of Zep's style, as did almost everybody, with their extended jams, but these jams have a finite point and they featured the entire band. Each person new when to play lead and they new when to fall back. I never learned a thing from John Paul Jones, but John and The Kid's Are Alright movie changed my life literally and I play bass because of him.
	Bands that Who influenced: The Jam - you have missed Pete's true sons if you have not heard the Jam, Elvis Costello, W.A.S.P., Pearl Jam (I've heard them do Baba, MG and KAAR), and most any punk band to ever spit. Bands Zepp influenced: most any of the hard rock/metal bands of today. But again, if talk to these bands individually their influences include Zappa, Alice Cooper, Zepp, Sabbath, Van Halen, KISS (for sure!), Deep Purple etc. etc. 
	The real elements of Zepp you find in bands - mystic, mysterious songs and the glamour and the solos and the off stage excesses.The real elements of the Who you find in bands - conceptual works, attention to musicianship, and the sweat of bands coming together with the sweat of audiences - most punk bands achieve this, but you can see it in bigger metal and rock shows where the bands and the audience reach 'the point of roar' where the audience's sound and fury blends with the bands sound and fury to create one single noise that grooves completely together and both are as one. I saw this at a Dio show and Iron Maiden shows, Pearl Jam shows, Who shows, Prince shows and Metallica shows. Its kinda awesome in away to see this happen, it's a real force of nature and I think this is probably what scares those opposed to rock music the most.
	As for who sold the most records, 1. Who cares 2. As a record store guy for most of my life, Zep sold more hands down, but the most literate and fanatic fans belong to the Who!
eddie stepping down to put out the fires presley