The Who's reputation

Tom Fency tomfency at
Sat Jul 24 11:44:43 CDT 2004

I agree with you, Keets.
EF is so spiritual as Bargain is. It talks about fake and confrontation with 
That is a theme that generates other great song, "Face to Face" (of course 
IMO I think that is another spiritual song of our beloved 
subculture-master/gurur/preacher PT).


>From: "L. Bird" <pkeets at>
>Reply-To: The Who Mailing List <thewho at>
>To: thewho at
>Subject: RE: The Who's reputation
>Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:19:56 +0000
>>>Why does God have to be a conciousness?  Again, you're limiting him/her 
>>human experience.
>>Is not referring to god as "him/her" also doing the same thing?
>Well, I might use "it."  There's just not much choice of pronouns.  ;)
> >> I see spirituality all over "Bargain."
>>Then I got confused by this post about Bargain:
>As I said, I was taking the Devil's Advocate position here.  Refering to 
> (again), here's the definition:  One who argues against a 
>cause or position to help determine its validity.
>I definitely agree that "Bargain" is a spiritual song, but this is 
>extremely subtle when you look at the lyrics.  The only tip-off I can see 
>in the song is that "naked, stoned and stabbed" reference which sounds 
>somewhat Biblical.  I gather that it's widely known as a spiritual song 
>only because Pete has said so.
>This being the case, I was pressing Mark to tell me why he's so convinced 
>"Bargain" is spiritual with so little indication of it in the song, when 
>he's equally sure that other songs with slight spiritual references (or 
>outright references in the case of RGLB) are non-spiritual.  As it turns 
>out, he's going by the feel of the song, and specifically he feels that 
>spiritual songs should be optimistic and uplifting.
>My last comment on the matter was that this was okay.  Interpretation is in 
>the eye of the beholder, after all.  However, I personally feel many of 
>Pete's dark, bitter and cynical songs are also about his spiritual 
>feelings, and therefore I don't think it's accurate to say that 
>spirituality is "out the window" in the later songs.  Since we've 
>identified our different positions and the reasons for them, we can let the 
>matter rest.  :)
>PK>Again, where does it say that?  What if it's about giving yourself to a
>woman instead?  Is it still spiritual and uplifing?"
>>Sounds like you're arguing that Bargain is not spiritual to me.  I'm 
>to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I keep feeling that you'll keep
>shifting your arguments just to keep arguing.  I like these discussions, 
>not when you do a 180 and then pretend you were pointing that way the whole
>Oops.  Sorry I confused you.  Just trying to pin Mark down.  He's a 
>slippery guy.   ;)
>>>Pete has helped us interpret "Bargain" because he's said it's about a
>>bargain with God.  To my knowledge, he's never disucssed "Eminence Front"
>in the same way.  Is this causing a bias in the debate?
>>I don't think I ever understood what you thought was spiritual about
>Eminence Front.  Can you remind me?
>Big wheel spins + thinning hair + hiding = death
>There's more to the song than this, of course, but I think comments about 
>hiding from mortality belong in the spiritual realm.  Because he talking 
>about stocks and speed boats and pretty girls, I suspect he's thinking 
>about the rich man failing to get into the kingdom of heaven, or in other 
>words, spiritual failure.
>>Personally, I think if you're trying to make the point that some of Pete's 
>>later writing is just as spiritual as his earlier writing, EF is not the 
>>song to use.  Use The Sea Refuses No River or
>Somebody Saved Me or Let My Love Open The Door...
>I did mention some others, including RGLB with the clear statement about 
>God.  I think everyone wanted to argue most about EF, though.  It's a 
>really tricky one.
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