The Who's reputation
tomfency at hotmail.com
Sat Jul 24 11:44:43 CDT 2004
I agree with you, Keets.
EF is so spiritual as Bargain is. It talks about fake and confrontation with
That is a theme that generates other great song, "Face to Face" (of course
IMO I think that is another spiritual song of our beloved
>From: "L. Bird" <pkeets at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Who Mailing List <thewho at igtc.com>
>To: thewho at igtc.com
>Subject: RE: The Who's reputation
>Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:19:56 +0000
>>>Why does God have to be a conciousness? Again, you're limiting him/her
>>Is not referring to god as "him/her" also doing the same thing?
>Well, I might use "it." There's just not much choice of pronouns. ;)
> >> I see spirituality all over "Bargain."
>>Then I got confused by this post about Bargain:
>As I said, I was taking the Devil's Advocate position here. Refering to
>Dictionary.com (again), here's the definition: One who argues against a
>cause or position to help determine its validity.
>I definitely agree that "Bargain" is a spiritual song, but this is
>extremely subtle when you look at the lyrics. The only tip-off I can see
>in the song is that "naked, stoned and stabbed" reference which sounds
>somewhat Biblical. I gather that it's widely known as a spiritual song
>only because Pete has said so.
>This being the case, I was pressing Mark to tell me why he's so convinced
>"Bargain" is spiritual with so little indication of it in the song, when
>he's equally sure that other songs with slight spiritual references (or
>outright references in the case of RGLB) are non-spiritual. As it turns
>out, he's going by the feel of the song, and specifically he feels that
>spiritual songs should be optimistic and uplifting.
>My last comment on the matter was that this was okay. Interpretation is in
>the eye of the beholder, after all. However, I personally feel many of
>Pete's dark, bitter and cynical songs are also about his spiritual
>feelings, and therefore I don't think it's accurate to say that
>spirituality is "out the window" in the later songs. Since we've
>identified our different positions and the reasons for them, we can let the
>matter rest. :)
>PK>Again, where does it say that? What if it's about giving yourself to a
>woman instead? Is it still spiritual and uplifing?"
>>Sounds like you're arguing that Bargain is not spiritual to me. I'm
>to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I keep feeling that you'll keep
>shifting your arguments just to keep arguing. I like these discussions,
>not when you do a 180 and then pretend you were pointing that way the whole
>Oops. Sorry I confused you. Just trying to pin Mark down. He's a
>slippery guy. ;)
>>>Pete has helped us interpret "Bargain" because he's said it's about a
>>bargain with God. To my knowledge, he's never disucssed "Eminence Front"
>in the same way. Is this causing a bias in the debate?
>>I don't think I ever understood what you thought was spiritual about
>Eminence Front. Can you remind me?
>Big wheel spins + thinning hair + hiding = death
>There's more to the song than this, of course, but I think comments about
>hiding from mortality belong in the spiritual realm. Because he talking
>about stocks and speed boats and pretty girls, I suspect he's thinking
>about the rich man failing to get into the kingdom of heaven, or in other
>words, spiritual failure.
>>Personally, I think if you're trying to make the point that some of Pete's
>>later writing is just as spiritual as his earlier writing, EF is not the
>>song to use. Use The Sea Refuses No River or
>Somebody Saved Me or Let My Love Open The Door...
>I did mention some others, including RGLB with the clear statement about
>God. I think everyone wanted to argue most about EF, though. It's a
>really tricky one.
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