The Who's reputation



L. Bird pkeets at hotmail.com
Sat Jul 24 11:19:56 CDT 2004


>>Why does God have to be a conciousness?  Again, you're limiting him/her to
>human experience.

>Is not referring to god as "him/her" also doing the same thing?

Well, I might use "it."  There's just not much choice of pronouns.  ;)


 >> I see spirituality all over "Bargain."

>Then I got confused by this post about Bargain:
http://www.igtc.com/pipermail/thewho/2004-July/001549.html

As I said, I was taking the Devil's Advocate position here.  Refering to 
Dictionary.com (again), here's the definition:  One who argues against a 
cause or position to help determine its validity.

I definitely agree that "Bargain" is a spiritual song, but this is extremely 
subtle when you look at the lyrics.  The only tip-off I can see in the song 
is that "naked, stoned and stabbed" reference which sounds somewhat 
Biblical.  I gather that it's widely known as a spiritual song only because 
Pete has said so.

This being the case, I was pressing Mark to tell me why he's so convinced 
"Bargain" is spiritual with so little indication of it in the song, when 
he's equally sure that other songs with slight spiritual references (or 
outright references in the case of RGLB) are non-spiritual.  As it turns 
out, he's going by the feel of the song, and specifically he feels that 
spiritual songs should be optimistic and uplifting.

My last comment on the matter was that this was okay.  Interpretation is in 
the eye of the beholder, after all.  However, I personally feel many of 
Pete's dark, bitter and cynical songs are also about his spiritual feelings, 
and therefore I don't think it's accurate to say that spirituality is "out 
the window" in the later songs.  Since we've identified our different 
positions and the reasons for them, we can let the matter rest.  :)


PK>Again, where does it say that?  What if it's about giving yourself to a
woman instead?  Is it still spiritual and uplifing?"

>Sounds like you're arguing that Bargain is not spiritual to me.  I'm trying
to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I keep feeling that you'll keep
shifting your arguments just to keep arguing.  I like these discussions, but
not when you do a 180 and then pretend you were pointing that way the whole
time!

Oops.  Sorry I confused you.  Just trying to pin Mark down.  He's a slippery 
guy.   ;)


>>Pete has helped us interpret "Bargain" because he's said it's about a
>bargain with God.  To my knowledge, he's never disucssed "Eminence Front"
in the same way.  Is this causing a bias in the debate?

>I don't think I ever understood what you thought was spiritual about
Eminence Front.  Can you remind me?

Big wheel spins + thinning hair + hiding = death

There's more to the song than this, of course, but I think comments about 
hiding from mortality belong in the spiritual realm.  Because he talking 
about stocks and speed boats and pretty girls, I suspect he's thinking about 
the rich man failing to get into the kingdom of heaven, or in other words, 
spiritual failure.


>Personally, I think if you're trying to make the point that some of Pete's 
>later writing is just as spiritual as his earlier writing, EF is not the 
>song to use.  Use The Sea Refuses No River or
Somebody Saved Me or Let My Love Open The Door...

I did mention some others, including RGLB with the clear statement about 
God.  I think everyone wanted to argue most about EF, though.  It's a really 
tricky one.


keets

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