The Who's reputation

L. Bird pkeets at
Fri Jul 23 09:14:16 CDT 2004

>Aren't you questioning the general usage of it below?

I'm questioning why every time someone mentions god, you feel the need to
point out that god is not exclusively Christian. I think we all know that.


>Then how are secular humanists to discuss their spiritual feelings?  I 
>agree that spiritual isn't just observational.  The spiritual capacity is 
>something that's wired into the human brian, and it doesn't go away when 
>someone intellectually rejects something as supernatural.

>I don't think they have spiritual feelings.  I think they have deep,
profound, wonderful feelings that are purely non-spiritual.  This is exactly
what I mean by bending word meanings so that no one feels left out.  This is
nothing against anyone's thoughts or beliefs.  I'm just standing up for the
meaning of a word.

I think we're going to have to agree to differ on this definition.  I don't 
think spiritual seeking has to be after God in a religious or supernatural 

>>I agree.  The way we live tends to remove us from nature, and we begin to
>see the world as man-made and to lose touch with our origins, and with
>matters of the spirit.

>That's true, but not what I meant.  "Nature" is only spiritual if you 
>assign a persona or conciousness to it.  I.e., cultures that worship Nature 
>and treat it like a deity.

Why does God have to be a conciousness?  Again, you're limiting him/her to 
human experience.

>>Hmmm.  How did we get into this discussion?  Maybe it's necessary to 
>>clairfy why it is that I see spirituality in some of Pete's songs that 
>>Mark doesn't see at all.

>Or why you couldn't see any in Bargain.

I see spirituality all over "Bargain."  My point was that there's no mention 
of God in it.  So why does Mark see "Bargain" as a spiritual song and 
"Eminence Front" as non-spiritual?  I feel the same thing from both of them.

>>Is that why we're dicussing definitions?  Does Pete have to mention the
>divine or supernatural in order to write a spiritual song?  Or does he
only have to arouse spiritual feelings in the listener?

>I'll never argue with anyone about what they feel when they listen to a
song.  But, there's plenty of room for debate about what Pete intended.

Pete has helped us interpret "Bargain" because he's said it's about a 
bargain with God.  To my knowledge, he's never disucssed "Eminence Front" in 
the same way.  Is this causing a bias in the debate?


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