bushchoked at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 7 09:13:12 CDT 2004
> But hasn't that been a tactic of The Who & Pete
> throughout their career?
> How many times did Pete "rework" TOMMY?
That was the start of it.
> their concert set-list has relied on their "past"
> since 1975!
That's not what I mean. Of COURSE their shows are
going to be primarily past music. I'm talking about
when Pete began to rework his projects. Tommy was
first, and done several times (symphony, movie, play)
but then he turned to Quad, and most recently
The Boy Who Heard Music sounds promising, if only
because it's not a project from the old days. Even
White City and Psychoderelict are extentions of
> You made fun of KISS, you.....you....you Jane's
> Addiction fan!!
Man, I was trying to spare you the complete
humiliation. Oh well.
Yeah, JA's worst song SMOKES the best thing Kiss ever
did...and what song could even be called "best?" I
mean, they ALL suck.
> You were on board in 2000. You're just mad that
> they continued on after Entwistle died.
They soared that night in Atlanta. You were there.
And, no, I'm not "mad." I'm deeply disappointed.
> The band
> is a fuck up. Pete is a fuck up. They've been
> fucking up from the
> very start! This behavior shouldn't come as any
> surprise to you.
People are supposed to LEARN from their mistakes,
especially intelligent people like Pete.
> Oh, but it *is* in his hands.
No it isn't. John killing himself, and frankly there's
no other way to look at it given the circumstances,
was NOT in Pete's hands.
> And it *hasn't* ended.
Yes it has. The other day I was listening to the
Encore show from Detroit 2002. You know, desperately
trying to find a way to justify their continued use of
the name Who. But the fire isn't there. The magic is
over. Compared to a 2000 show, it's pretty weak. Jim
has reported the MSG show he has is also less than
To put it as Kevin might: IT...HAS...ENDED. They were
fortunate enough to recapture the magic with Zak, and
Pete & John working harder, but it's just too much for
one man to carry. This band is too big for that.
Roger's voice is going, and HAS BEEN since WAY. You
can hear it on FD and It's Hard, fer fuck's sake. And
that was more than 20 years ago.
> *You've* quit. Pete hasn't.
*I* have faced reality. Pete hasn't.
> ...you were being mean, and I took offense.
Oh, YEAH, that's mean. That's vicious. That's evil
wicked mean and nasty (don't step on the grass, Sam).
That's not even in the same universe as mean. Mean
would have been something like:
You call that interesting? Damn, you're a complete
loser! You live a boring life. Get a girlfriend, or a
hobby, or something! That's about as interesting as
See? What I wrote was mild.
> LIVE as it happened? I doubt the who would wanna
> recreate "KISS alive".
> With all due respect to Mark (and anyone else who
> makes honest criticisms),
> this sounds like a game.
It's not a game to me. I hold The Who up for the world
as the example of the greatest Rock band who ever
walked the face of the earth. Quite a standard, I
agree, but they lived up to it.
Now they're doing what every little meaningless old
band has done: issued "best of" after "best of,"
reunion tour without all the members, even given up
naming their own product (Then and Now? I ask ya).
As for "pleasing me," I don't know what you mean. I
agree with Pete when he said he wanted to end the band
in 1983. Good decision. He was thinking a lot clearer
> If you want to dig into the psychological
> underpinnings of the game
You DO know that you've created all of this in your
own mind and there's no validity to it.
> might suspect that that Fan X is actually fixated on
> some point of their own
Yeah, that would explain why I want to see Velvet
Revolver...that point in my youth a few months ago
when they released their CD.
Maybe...just maybe...it's more like you have something
great and don't want to see it degraded! How about
THAT for a concept, huh? You know, like when they take
a great movie like Stargate and make it into a TV
show, having to come up with more and more material so
they get farther away from the original greatness
until, in the end, none of it has any meaning or even
So, let's evaluate what we have here: Pete is playing
better than ever. Definitely. A bass player no one can
hear, and when they can they are NOT impressed. A
drummer who has been able to capture the fire, but not
the imagination or skill of the original. Well, that
works when the other two musicians are on overtime,
but we know that one is not. OK. Roger is singing
worse than he has during his entire career. Sad but
true. The other band members don't really help or
hurt, so I'll leave them out of this equation.
Net result: A band going downhill, as Rog's voice
degrades even further.
As the beer commercials say: Know when to say when.
> against Pete's. This is a
> strange and mystifying tendency, as they've got the
> wrong guy. ;)
This is nonsense. If someone was looking for a "macho"
band, surely they'd go for one of the more neanderthal
ones...like Lynyrd Skynyrd or Manowar.
> death that Pete/The Who might somehow fail to live
> up to their expectations,
> so they'd rather that the band, like Led Zeppelin,
> find some glorious excuse
> to hang it up.
You're a LITTLE closer here. Except it isn't "scared
to death" but merely saddened and dismayed. Led
Zeppelin wasn't glorious even when they DID hang it
up...there were a good 5 years from it!
> But this isn't the lesson. It's only what Pete
> predicts will happen,
> because Tommy is a fake.
It isn't the lesson, but it's not because Tommy's a
fake. He's genuine. In fact, the lesson is "it's all
within ourselves." Listening to me, I get the music,
gazing at me, I get the heat (whatever that means),
following me I climb the mountain, I get excitement at
my feet, right behind me I see the millions, on me I
see the glory, from me I get opinions, from me I get
the story. When did Tommy finally "get it?" At the
end, when he's by himself. It's over when he REALIZES
he doesn't need the others. See, realization! The end
of all Pete's stories.
> So there was some kind of implied contract
The contract is to be the best, and remain the best.
SOMEONE has to live up to a standard, or what good is
a standard. If everyone gives in and gives up, what's
the point? Why do people set goals if they KNOW they
don't plan to get there?
It would have been nice. They were the only ones who
could have pulled it off. Although the Beatles came
I guess, since "Davey Jones and the Monkees" are
playing in MB soon, I should buy tickets, huh? Not
that I particularly like The Monkees, but it's the
same as going to see a Who show, right?
"We tried it their way for 12 years. We tried it our
way for eight years. Then we tried it their way for
four more. But the only test that matters is whether
people were better off when we finished than when we
started. Our way works better."
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