From bdodgers at aol.com  Fri Jan  1 03:25:48 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:25:48 EST
Subject: Happy New Year
Message-ID: <85c9.351475ec.386ec53c@aol.com>

 
Hi All:
 
Here is an old wish for you:
 
May your best day in 2009 be your worst day in  2010!
 
Happy New Year
 
George

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 15:26:12 2010
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 10:26:12 -0500
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <85c9.351475ec.386ec53c@aol.com>
References: <85c9.351475ec.386ec53c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131671001010726oac56addg801975d34596b85d@mail.gmail.com>

God bless and Happy New Year/Decade everyone.

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com


On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:25 PM, <bdodgers at aol.com> wrote:

>
> Hi All:
>
> Here is an old wish for you:
>
> May your best day in 2009 be your worst day in  2010!
>
> Happy New Year
>
> George
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Jan  1 16:45:48 2010
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:45:48 -0500
Subject: The KKK Took Big Baby Away... They Took Him Away
In-Reply-To: <20091231184146.CK2ZP.386204.imail@eastrmwml49>
Message-ID: <E45127C4.3A3F.4FA6.AF62.ABC01C2A620C@aol.com>

< She's been e-mailing me again privately telling me what an a-hole I am,?
as well as pointing out all my personal and medical flaws, such as?
being a reformed alcoholic.> - DavidP
----------------------
Ah, err, arg, David.? Happy New Year.? I believe you forgot to tell the?
folks here that you were the one who initiated our emails yesterday.
I merely responded.? You also neglected to mention that in your
email(s) of yesterday you just happened to call me a bitch and
told me to go f-ck myself.? How cruel;? At age 70, it ain?t that easy.

I really have no appetite for publicizing this stupid off line stuff, and?
apologize for boring this list with such infantile crapola. But enough?
is enough from you after all these years. Chalk it up to poster pride.?

I don?t recall posting a thought that you haven?t responded to with
your signature crybaby personal insults dating back to when?
i was pro-Pierce and you were pro-Walker.? Since then, you have?
attempted to hit me from all directions under various screenames?
on various lists.? What the hell is your problem, DavidP? ?

Let me at least make this much clear.? Yes, I do think you are?
an a-hole, and that I have feathered your nest by even responding.?

We head off tomorrow for sunny Hollywood, Florida, prepared to?
make our annual donation to the various Native American Indian?
causes (The Hard Rock Casino, Gulfstream Race Track Casino).? ?

See you back here come April 1st. Bet the list can?t wait for our?
posting reunion. ?

Egg




On Dec 31, 2009, at 6:41:46 PM, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote:

From:   davidp4660 at cox.net
Subject:    RE: The KKK Took Big Baby Away... They Took Him Away
Date:   December 31, 2009 6:41:46 PM EST
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
I can't answer your lst question, because I don't know. But don't waste your time with her. She's been e-mailing me again privately telling me what an a-hole I am, as well as pointing out all my personal and medical flaws, such as being a reformed alcoholic. I'll at least admit the error of my ways and the mistakes I made. Perhaps I should post her letter to the board to show you how she treats people who dare to disagree with "Miss Know-It All" to give you an idea of what type of person she really is (maybe tomorrow), but that might ban me-after all with her connections, someone will put me on a "Banned in Britain" list. But, her posts got a classy response. I got the last word and told her where to go-too bad she didn't appreciate my closing. Egg can't take any criticism for her chronic negativity. Must be a hormone thing, because I can't figure why a Celtic fan (I really doubt she is) would hide under a rock when the team is doing well, and only show up on a bad
skid-just like WOTR. It's a typical Egg move, but that's how some people opererate. I also tend to doubt that she knows anyone in the media or the organization any more than you or I. For the sake of New years Eve, let's just say she is she is a bag of wind from Ogunquit Maine. No doubt she'll swoop in for a few more negative posts before the season is over. Remember, Ainge can do no right according to her, even if the C's win another championship, but this has been her modus operandi from the mid 90's, so why be surprised. You are correct on her accuracy. And it is only on the night of a blue moon when she may be correct. She just loves herself and how articulate she can be. It's called showing off. I guess if I owned a hotel on the coast on Maine and had the time, I could show off too, but I'm not that fortunate. I guess that's why I am responsiblie (according to Miss Right) for half this board leaving. But I will continue to persist in my endeavor to challen
ge her negativity.
---- Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:?
>?
> >Cecil Wright <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Eggy,
> >
> >You have proven, at least to me over the years, that you have access to information that the rest of us cannot get our hands on.
>?
> Really? Could you give some examples?
>?
> I could invent lots of stuff, post it, and occasionally some of it would turn out to be true. For example, every time a player gets hurt, I could write, "It's much worse it looks! He'll never be the same again!" (Egg does this.) Every so often, I'll be right.
>?
> But that doesn't make me a genius, or mean I have inside information. It's not enough to be right once in a blue moon. You need to be right much of the time, or be right on something that no one could guess *unless* they were an insider.
>?
> My experience (back when I was reading Egg's posts) was that her ratio was terrible. In fact, I could have done better at predictions, and I have no Celtics connections at all. Can anyone remember posts that actually demonstrated inside info for Egg?
>?
> -- Eric
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan  1 21:34:46 2010
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:34:46 -0500
Subject: Report: Arenas, Crittenton pull guns on each other
Message-ID: <FF04709E8CD1472D84C0C964C3639744@D2F52Z11>

Report: Arenas, Crittenton pull guns on each other
Associated  Press
Friday, Jan. 1, 2010 - 9:30 a.m. ET 
NEW YORK -- Washington Wizards teammates Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton drew guns on each other during a Christmas Eve locker room argument over a gambling debt, according to The New York Post.

Citing an anonymous source, the newspaper reports in Friday's edition that the standoff was sparked when Crittenton became angry at Arenas for refusing to make good on a gambling debt. That prompted Arenas to draw on Crittenton, who then also grabbed for a gun, league security sources tell the Post.

Asked by the Post about the confrontation, Arenas denied pulling a gun on Crittenton.

"This is unprecedented in the history of sports," Billy Hunter, executive director of the Player's Association, tells the Post. "I've never heard of players pulling guns on each other in a locker room."

The Wizards said on the night of Dec. 24 that Arenas had stored unloaded firearms in a container in his locker at the arena and that the NBA was looking into the situation. On Tuesday, Washington, D.C. police said they were investigating a report that weapons were found inside a locker room at the Verizon Center.

Now, the federal government is also involved. Ben Friedman, a spokesman for the US Attorney's Office in DC, tells the Post "we're working with the Metropolitan Police Department on the investigation."

"Life's Tough.....It's even tougher if your'e Stupid."  - John Wayne

Hart


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  1 23:19:47 2010
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 19:19:47 -0400
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
Message-ID: <BAY128-W16F763C9595DAFF8767D7FD9770@phx.gbl>


So we will have a starting 5 of ...??

 

Perkins

R. Allen

T. Allen

Williams

???? (Yahoo says Giddens)

 

Cecil

 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jan  1 23:50:14 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:50:14 +0000
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
Message-ID: <828751498-1262389814-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1531164430-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hopefully giddens walker Davis and Hudson get some time 
------Original Message------
From: Cecil Wright
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
Sent: Jan 1, 2010 3:19 PM


So we will have a starting 5 of ...??

 

Perkins

R. Allen

T. Allen

Williams

???? (Yahoo says Giddens)

 

Cecil

 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 01:18:19 2010
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:18:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <BAY128-W16F763C9595DAFF8767D7FD9770@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <643501.6243.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Well we might as well use this next 3-5 games and layoffs to see what our end of bench looks like. Is Wallace out too?
If not I think it will be Perk, Wallace, T Allen, Ray & House or Hudson
Bench: Williams, Scals, Walker, Giddens, House or Hudson
Hopefully Scal's minutes do not exceed Walker's unless Walker gets in foul trouble; also do not want to see House as PG, if at all possible, need him as a scorer during this time.?
My hope is the Good Guys take 2-3 out of 5
Get well soon C's ??

--- On Fri, 1/1/10, Cecil Wright <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Cecil Wright <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 6:19 PM


So we will have a starting 5 of ...??

 

Perkins

R. Allen

T. Allen

Williams

???? (Yahoo says Giddens)

 

Cecil

 
 ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  2 01:34:38 2010
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 21:34:38 -0400
Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <643501.6243.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY128-W16F763C9595DAFF8767D7FD9770@phx.gbl>,
	<643501.6243.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY128-W19A8709387F7E0C21FD96DD9760@phx.gbl>


I completely forgot about the Sheedster!!

 

Cecil


 
> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:18:19 -0800
> From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Rondo out tomorrow
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> Well we might as well use this next 3-5 games and layoffs to see what our end of bench looks like. Is Wallace out too?
> If not I think it will be Perk, Wallace, T Allen, Ray & House or Hudson
> Bench: Williams, Scals, Walker, Giddens, House or Hudson
> Hopefully Scal's minutes do not exceed Walker's unless Walker gets in foul trouble; also do not want to see House as PG, if at all possible, need him as a scorer during this time. 
> My hope is the Good Guys take 2-3 out of 5
> Get well soon C's   
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Cecil Wright <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Cecil Wright <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Rondo out tomorrow
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 6:19 PM
> 
> 
> So we will have a starting 5 of ...??
> 
> 
> 
> Perkins
> 
> R. Allen
> 
> T. Allen
> 
> Williams
> 
> ???? (Yahoo says Giddens)
> 
> 
> 
> Cecil
> 
> 
>                           
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816

From douglas342 at aol.com  Sun Jan  3 05:53:11 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:53:11 -0500
Subject: Toronto
Message-ID: <8CC5A502B1660DD-A28-1E7B9@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>

I didn't see this game, but am anxiously waiting for reviews from those 
who did.  Come on, folks, what happened?  The good, the bad, the ugly?  


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sun Jan  3 14:58:51 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:58:51 +0000
Subject: Toronto
Message-ID: <1225179063-1262530730-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2104401720-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Maybe out best game considering no rondo Pierce kg or Daniels. Tony & Lester played point for the most. Not great  ball  handling but got the job done. I think we had 6 in double figures. Ray and rasheed  showed their leadership. Tony made  some key drives tobthr hoop one a nice dunk.  Giddens & Hudson played well but need to take some shots , passed up on several open ones.  

Did anyone see Nate Robinson go off the other night. Would be  a nice backup point. 

Walker still couldn't get in. 
------Original Message------
From: douglas342 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Toronto
Sent: Jan 2, 2010 9:53 PM

I didn't see this game, but am anxiously waiting for reviews from those 
who did.  Come on, folks, what happened?  The good, the bad, the ugly?  

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  3 15:07:06 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Toronto
In-Reply-To: <8CC5A502B1660DD-A28-1E7B9@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <11069.24050.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I saw about 2.5 qtrs, enough to see Giddens & Hudson since neither played in the 4th (and Hudson maybe not at all in 2nd half?) . ?You need active legs to compete in this league, which is why Rondo and Tony Allen are a great pair. Last night was Tony and JR Giddens, which kept things from bogging down. ??Poor Lester Hudson. ?He's a speedy kid, but Doc chose to pair him with Scal at SF instead of Tony, Giddens, or even Bill Walker (why the DNP?)??Perk looks a little lost w/out Rondo.?
The Herald's description of Glen Davis as a bowling ball in the lane was right on ; ) ?He had one full court dribble crash to the basket like a rhinoceros, and a few other bull in a china shop with twinkletoes moves. ?There was another bogus T called on Wallace.
For the most part, this was more team ball than you might expect with 3 starters, including Rondo, on the bench.
This was the most on the court animated coaching I've seen from Doc all year (shades of 2007...).
Very satisfying win.
Ellie
--- On Sun, 1/3/10, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
Subject: Toronto
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 12:53 AM

I didn't see this game, but am anxiously waiting for reviews from those who did.? Come on, folks, what happened?? The good, the bad, the ugly?? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From jahillsr at comcast.net  Sun Jan  3 19:13:57 2010
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:13:57 -0500
Subject: Toronto
Message-ID: <000901ca8ca8$e65c3f40$b314bdc0$@net>

It was a fun game to watch.  Great energy in the Garden from the looks of
it.  When the second team can come in like they did and execute the same
basic offense while still working for the best shot and having good
defensive rotations bodes well for this team moving forward, perhaps they
really will be able to cut the minutes on the 1st team in the second ? of
the season.  Before injuries do it for them.
 
.>Maybe out best game considering no rondo Pierce kg or Daniels. Tony &
Lester played point for the most. Not great  ball  handling but got the job
done. >I think we had 6 in double figures. Ray and rasheed  showed their
leadership. Tony made  some key drives tobthr hoop one a nice dunk.  Giddens
& Hudson >played well but need to take some shots , passed up on several
open ones.  

 

>Did anyone see Nate Robinson go off the other night. Would be  a nice
backup point. 

 

I think his team just gave him another shot to play as long as he brings it
both ways.  Unless he has a relationship with Pierce, Allen or Garnett, why
bring in a questionable attitude?  Gotta like that shooting skill however.

 

<Jim

 


From Eric at EricAlbert.net  Sun Jan  3 20:54:49 2010
From: Eric at EricAlbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:54:49 -0500
Subject: From today's Bob Ryan column in the Boston Globe
Message-ID: <1262552089.27316.1352730303@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Bob Ryan comments on the major Boston sports teams today
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/01/03/theyre_all_in_a_pretty_competitive_state/).
Here are some of his comments on the Celtics:

=====
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa on the subject of Kendrick
Perkins, whom I once denounced as a career backup. He is a defensive
force and an astonishingly improved offensive player. As for Rajon
Rondo, there just cannot be a 2010 All-Star Game without him. He?s both
good and fun to watch. Stylistically, he is unique.

Do be happy Doc Rivers is the coach. He understands the delicacy of this
roster. He'll lose as many battles as are necessary in order to have a
chance of winning the war.
=====

Nice to see such a knowledgeable basketball writer saying nice things
about Perkins and Rondo. (Ryan has been happy to criticize the Celtics
in the psat.)

I think the best thing about Perkins is how hard he works to improve his
game. Each year, he is noticeably, undeniably better. Why would anyone
want to trade a young center who's already playing well, and who keeps
improving?

-- Eric


From jeffclark at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 21:04:14 2010
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:04:14 -0500
Subject: Toronto
In-Reply-To: <000901ca8ca8$e65c3f40$b314bdc0$@net>
References: <000901ca8ca8$e65c3f40$b314bdc0$@net>
Message-ID: <84e131671001031304n33802f3fy78fbe8732e19dcb@mail.gmail.com>

really surprised at Bill Walker's residence in the doghouse

we know he's not still hurt from this preseason because he did very well in
Maine

I read one person say that management wanted him to work harder and take his
career more seriously, but why would he stay in Waltham all summer if he
wasn't working hard and taking things seriously?

oh well, I hope he earns himself a shot because I like watching him play

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 21:08:02 2010
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:08:02 -0500
Subject: From today's Bob Ryan column in the Boston Globe
In-Reply-To: <1262552089.27316.1352730303@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1262552089.27316.1352730303@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <84e131671001031308p364c785drca527c57ba46418a@mail.gmail.com>

Perk is great.  The only questions with him are attitude (I hope he'll get
wiser with age and not more stubborn like Sheed) and health (that arm could
pop out any time but he's actually been pretty durable the last few years)

I wouldn't trade him for anything less than an all star but it will be tough
to sign him to a long term extension after this deal (even as young as he
is) - if we have a good roster, I don't mind overpaying him.  If we have
lots of holes (we might at that point) I'm not sure I'd invest star-type
money on him.

but that's a dilemma for another day

-Jeff

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> Bob Ryan comments on the major Boston sports teams today
> (
> http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/01/03/theyre_all_in_a_pretty_competitive_state/
> ).
> Here are some of his comments on the Celtics:
>
> =====
> Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa on the subject of Kendrick
> Perkins, whom I once denounced as a career backup. He is a defensive
> force and an astonishingly improved offensive player. As for Rajon
> Rondo, there just cannot be a 2010 All-Star Game without him. He?s both
> good and fun to watch. Stylistically, he is unique.
>
> Do be happy Doc Rivers is the coach. He understands the delicacy of this
> roster. He'll lose as many battles as are necessary in order to have a
> chance of winning the war.
> =====
>
> Nice to see such a knowledgeable basketball writer saying nice things
> about Perkins and Rondo. (Ryan has been happy to criticize the Celtics
> in the psat.)
>
> I think the best thing about Perkins is how hard he works to improve his
> game. Each year, he is noticeably, undeniably better. Why would anyone
> want to trade a young center who's already playing well, and who keeps
> improving?
>
> -- Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun Jan  3 23:59:06 2010
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:59:06 -0500
Subject: From today's Bob Ryan column in the Boston Globe
In-Reply-To: <1262552089.27316.1352730303@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1262552089.27316.1352730303@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <0KVP00M793YPEK33@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>

At 03:54 PM 1/3/2010, Eric Albert wrote:
>I think the best thing about Perkins is how hard he works to improve his
>game. Each year, he is noticeably, undeniably better.

Heartfelt agreement. Add in smarter too, which is not something 
anyone would have associated with Perk a few years back. He'll never 
be the most talented center in the league but he'll always be one who 
works to get about as much as he can from what he does have, which is 
not negligible.

>Why would anyone
>want to trade a young center who's already playing well, and who keeps
>improving?

And to add a dose of cold, hard reality, is also paid a very cap 
friendly salary, guaranteed to stay that way through next year. 
Compare his production to say the Laker's Bynum, who makes 3X as much 
and think about the cost of genuinely replacing Perk if you did trade 
him. He's a bargain of the sort that makes having 3 max contract 
players starting with him possible.
Kim 



From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  4 00:34:07 2010
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Toronto
In-Reply-To: <84e131671001031304n33802f3fy78fbe8732e19dcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <974967.10507.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

It does seem that Walker is in the dog house. This is not a case where Doc does not recognize his ability to play, as evidence of Doc playing him meaningful minutes as a rookie or not having minutes for him at his position currently. Having Scal play all avail minutes without crumbs for Walker is frustrating for me. Then again as long as Scals is on the roster Doc will always find a reason to play him.

Go C's ? 

--- On Sun, 1/3/10, jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com> wrote:

From: jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Toronto
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:04 PM

really surprised at Bill Walker's residence in the doghouse

we know he's not still hurt from this preseason because he did very well in
Maine

I read one person say that management wanted him to work harder and take his
career more seriously, but why would he stay in Waltham all summer if he
wasn't working hard and taking things seriously?

oh well, I hope he earns himself a shot because I like watching him play

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net  Mon Jan  4 21:12:17 2010
From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:12:17 -0500
Subject: Technically, it's not so bad.
In-Reply-To: <4B4253B2.2090203@verizon.net>
References: <4B4253B2.2090203@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20100104211231.4BC3CE1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>

After reading about the near-shootout at the D.C. corral, I realized 
that I can live a lot more comfortably with 'Sheed and Perk getting 
Technicals than I previously thought.

I'd still like them to ease up a bit, but at least nobody's 
practicing their fast draw around here. :) 

From BDodgers at aol.com  Tue Jan  5 22:42:15 2010
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:42:15 EST
Subject: Pierce likely back; KG, House out
Message-ID: <cf3.6aaf9f45.38751a47@aol.com>

 
Pierce likely back; KG, House out
 

By Chris Forsberg
ESPNBoston.com 
WALTHAM, Mass. -- On the day that the Boston Celtics'  _Paul Pierce_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662)  and _Rajon Rondo_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026)  returned to the 
practice court, _Kendrick Perkins_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2018)  and _Eddie House_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=348)  were sidelined by a bout with the flu. 
Pierce and Rondo could rejoin the starting lineup  Wednesday night in Miami 
as the Celtics kick off a three-game road trip (though  Celtics coach _Doc 
Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)  noted 
that Rondo is more of a game-time  decision). Perkins is expected to travel 
with the team Tuesday afternoon, but  House is still nursing a fever and 
will likely not travel. 
"The circus continues," joked Rivers, who also returned to practice after  
missing Monday's session due to a personal matter. 
"Paul looked good, Rondo you couldn't tell because he didn't do much,? 
Rivers  said. "So we'll see [Wednesday]. I think [Rondo is] going to go, but I 
wouldn't  write that down in pen, for sure. Paul probably will [play 
Wednesday], that's  what it looks like. So that would help us a lot. Just getting 
one of those guys  back, I'd be happy. Both would be absolutely fantastic." 
Rivers sounded less optimistic about Perkins and House, considering league  
rules about players with fevers, especially in light of the widespread H1N1 
 illness this year. 
"The league has really pressed upon us that, if a guy has a fever, he has 
to  stay away from the team, because he's contagious at that point," said  
Rivers. 
Pierce, sidelined the past five games after a pair of procedures to drain  
fluid in his right knee after an infection was discovered last month, said 
he'll  evaluate his status again Wednesday morning, but was preparing to play 
for the  first time since Dec. 22. 
"We'll see how it feels, but I got a good practice in [Tuesday]," said  
Pierce. "It's not 100 percent, but it's getting better. 
"I'm about as confident as I'm going to be until it's 100 percent. I'm not  
feeling any pressure or pain when I push off on it because, as I said, it 
wasn't  any ligament damage. It's just a matter of the swelling going down 
each day.  We're down to the fact [of how far] I can bend it, and I have a lot 
more  flexibility the past few days." 
Pierce wore a black sleeve over the right knee and appeared to be moving 
well  from the final moments of practice viewed by the media.  
Pierce said the real key would be getting his timing back on the floor, but 
 joked that he hadn't been out that long and he saw "flashes" of his old 
self  Tuesday. 
Rivers indicated _Kevin Garnett_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)  is also likely to travel with the team,  but is unlikely 
to play as he recovers from a hyperextended right knee. He did  not 
practice Tuesday.

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  6 05:47:04 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:47:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Toronto
In-Reply-To: <974967.10507.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <343325.97340.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

After seeing him in uniform, it's pretty clear Walker's put on 15-20 pounds due to the inactivity stemming from his latest knee injury.  Doc is pretty old school when it comes to giving opportunities to guys who come in every day and put in the work and right now JR's earned the time by simply being healthy, inshape, and available.  Bill will get his opportunity later in the season when he gets in better shape...

Ryan

--- On Sun, 1/3/10, R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Toronto
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 6:34 PM
> It does seem that Walker is in the
> dog house. This is not a case where Doc does not recognize
> his ability to play, as evidence of Doc playing him
> meaningful minutes as a rookie or not having minutes for him
> at his position currently. Having Scal play all avail
> minutes without crumbs for Walker is frustrating for me.
> Then again as long as Scals is on the roster Doc will always
> find a reason to play him.
> 
> Go C's ? 
> 
> --- On Sun, 1/3/10, jeffclark at gmail.com
> <jeffclark at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From: jeffclark at gmail.com
> <jeffclark at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Toronto
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:04 PM
> 
> really surprised at Bill Walker's residence in the
> doghouse
> 
> we know he's not still hurt from this preseason because he
> did very well in
> Maine
> 
> I read one person say that management wanted him to work
> harder and take his
> career more seriously, but why would he stay in Waltham all
> summer if he
> wasn't working hard and taking things seriously?
> 
> oh well, I hope he earns himself a shot because I like
> watching him play
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  6 05:53:54 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The KKK Took Big Baby Away... They Took Him Away
In-Reply-To: <20091231225457.00ECFE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <350328.59700.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

She called the Giddens pick, though she said it was going to be in the 2nd round, not the 1st...

Ryan

--- On Thu, 12/31/09, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:
> My experience (back when I was reading Egg's posts) was
> that her ratio was terrible. In fact, I could have done
> better at predictions, and I have no Celtics connections at
> all. Can anyone remember posts that actually demonstrated
> inside info for Egg?
> 
> -- Eric




      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  6 06:00:25 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: playing Walker & Hudson
In-Reply-To: <365719.83161.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <487407.3326.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Well said as always Gene.  Remember that a guy like Chandler Fry was given up on by two organizations merely because those organizations lacked the creativity to extend his sweet shot to the 3 point line and make it an unguardable weapon.  Instead, they focused on what he was not--a low post threat--missing his unique talent in the process.  

Player development is not always about hard work--it has a lot to do with opportunity and luck and whether a player plays in the right system for their skill set.  A coach with a creative mind can often put limited players in ideal positions to succeed.  It happens alot in college where it's harder to find players...

Ryan

--- On Thu, 12/31/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: playing Walker & Hudson
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 11:44 AM
> I think we're winning too many
> games.? Hyperbole, of course, but there are 4, count
> them, 4 top teams in the East, so it makes little difference
> where we are slotted in the playoffs.? We need to
> gravitate toward a team with Walker instead of Scal and
> Hudson instead of House.? Neither Doc nor Danny can
> know how quickly Walker and Hudson will develop--even I
> don't know that.? It's natural selection--or
> something.? They need time on the floor in quality
> time, not garbage time.? Coaches are not
> omniscient.? They are surprised, if they would admit
> it, at times by good players who make mistakes, and average
> players who do just as well, all things considered.?
> While I do not like the local NFL boss, Jerry Jones,
> suggesting whom the coach should play, I wish there were
> pressure on Doc to give the youngsters some developmental
> time.? What we generally agree upon is that neither
> Scal nor House have the pieces to help very much.?
> Without their shots falling, they
>  are hurting us.? The youngsters have more pieces,
> plus they've got athletic ability the older guys ain't
> got.? Garbage time and practice time don't do it; would
> Sheldon Williams be able to contribute without being thrown
> into the mix for significant minutes?? Would Big
> Baby?? Or Ernie Rabinowitz?? See?? Two out of
> three ain't bad.? Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Wed Jan  6 14:18:17 2010
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:18:17 -0500
Subject: Egg's supposed inside info
Message-ID: <20100106141847.25EC5E1C07A@ignite.igtc.com>


>--- On Thu, 12/31/09, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:
>> My experience (back when I was reading Egg's posts) was
>> that her ratio was terrible. In fact, I could have done
>> better at predictions, and I have no Celtics connections at
>> all. Can anyone remember posts that actually demonstrated
>> inside info for Egg?
>> 
>> -- Eric

>Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>She called the Giddens pick, though she said it was going to be in the 2nd round, not the 1st...

Eggcentric was the *third* person on this list (after Way of the Ray and Ellie Cutler) to suggest Giddens as our pick, and Egg made the prediction two months after the first two people did. Egg said we'd take Giddens at #60, and Way of the Ray immediately corrected her and said Giddens would never last that long, but we might take him at #30.

If you make lots of posts, one or two of them will be "kind of" right. The human brain being what it is, people will remember those "bold" predictions, and forget all the other predictions you got wrong.

In this case, Way of the Ray and Ellie Cutler were earlier and more accurate with the same information. Neither of them has ever claimed to have inside information. Why should Egg get credit for being late and less accurate?

I list the pertinent pieces of posts below.

-- Eric

On April 28, 2008, Way of the Ray wrote:

  One of the top priorities for this Celtics team in the
  offseason is to draft someone like J.R. Giddens, as
  whacky as Tony Allen off the court, but one of the
  most underrated players in college basketball, who can
  defend, score, pass, and rebound from the SG position.

On April 29, 2008, Ellie Cutler wrote:

  There are some interesting guards waiting for us in the draft this year. 
  Lester Hudson and JR Giddens...

On June 25, 2008 (two months later), Eggcentric wrote:

  #30 - ALEXIS AJINCA
  #60 - JR GIDDENS

  THESE ARE THE TWO GUYS DANNY IS ASSUMING/HOPING 
  WILL BE AVAILABLE AT THESE SPOTS.

An hour and a half later, Way of the Ray wrote:

  Neither one will be available in those respective spots.
  I mentioned Giddens before. He's a great defender and Tony Allenesque
  off the court. He needs to improve his perimeter game and ability to create an outside shot.
  They might have to settle for him at 30.


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  6 17:48:41 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:48:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Egg's supposed inside info
In-Reply-To: <20100106141847.25EC5E1C07A@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <122306.58924.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Interesting research, Eric.  I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not predictions.  But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things against the wall, something's bound to stick.  Insider or not, true or false or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate as any non-insider guess.  Most list members have 'predicted' things that turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim inside sources.  The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider info.  Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future, making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.  

It's all semantics anyway.  If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.  But hubris comes with any claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.

Ryan


--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> From: Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> Subject: RE: Egg's supposed inside info
> To: Celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 8:18 AM
> 
> >--- On Thu, 12/31/09, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> wrote:
> >> My experience (back when I was reading Egg's
> posts) was
> >> that her ratio was terrible. In fact, I could have
> done
> >> better at predictions, and I have no Celtics
> connections at
> >> all. Can anyone remember posts that actually
> demonstrated
> >> inside info for Egg?
> >> 
> >> -- Eric
> 
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >She called the Giddens pick, though she said it was
> going to be in the 2nd round, not the 1st...
> 
> Eggcentric was the *third* person on this list (after Way
> of the Ray and Ellie Cutler) to suggest Giddens as our pick,
> and Egg made the prediction two months after the first two
> people did. Egg said we'd take Giddens at #60, and Way of
> the Ray immediately corrected her and said Giddens would
> never last that long, but we might take him at #30.
> 
> If you make lots of posts, one or two of them will be "kind
> of" right. The human brain being what it is, people will
> remember those "bold" predictions, and forget all the other
> predictions you got wrong.
> 
> In this case, Way of the Ray and Ellie Cutler were earlier
> and more accurate with the same information. Neither of them
> has ever claimed to have inside information. Why should Egg
> get credit for being late and less accurate?
> 
> I list the pertinent pieces of posts below.
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> On April 28, 2008, Way of the Ray wrote:
> 
> ? One of the top priorities for this Celtics team in
> the
> ? offseason is to draft someone like J.R. Giddens, as
> ? whacky as Tony Allen off the court, but one of the
> ? most underrated players in college basketball, who
> can
> ? defend, score, pass, and rebound from the SG
> position.
> 
> On April 29, 2008, Ellie Cutler wrote:
> 
> ? There are some interesting guards waiting for us in
> the draft this year. 
> ? Lester Hudson and JR Giddens...
> 
> On June 25, 2008 (two months later), Eggcentric wrote:
> 
> ? #30 - ALEXIS AJINCA
> ? #60 - JR GIDDENS
> 
> ? THESE ARE THE TWO GUYS DANNY IS ASSUMING/HOPING 
> ? WILL BE AVAILABLE AT THESE SPOTS.
> 
> An hour and a half later, Way of the Ray wrote:
> 
> ? Neither one will be available in those respective
> spots.
> ? I mentioned Giddens before. He's a great defender
> and Tony Allenesque
> ? off the court. He needs to improve his perimeter
> game and ability to create an outside shot.
> ? They might have to settle for him at 30.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net  Wed Jan  6 22:09:31 2010
From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:09:31 -0500
Subject: The Hammer Falls--Stern Suspends Arenas indefinitely
Message-ID: <20100106220946.E89134C8002@ignite.igtc.com>

David Stern suspended Gilbert Arenas "indefinitely" starting 
immediately, saying Gilbert was "not currently fit to take the court" 
and that the player's conduct will "ultimately result in a 
substantial suspension, and perhaps worse."

The behavior referred to is doubtless the events of last night, where 
Arenas was in Philadelphia for a game, photographed using his index 
finger like a gun, pointing at various teammates.  This prompted 
Stern to abandon his original intent of waiting for the legal 
investigation to conclude.  The ongoing antics of a player who 
obviously does not take this situation at all seriously made it 
impossible for him to wait without becoming a laughingstock.

Moreover, the Wizards team ownership publicly supported the move, 
with a statement that "Strictly legal issues aside, Gilbert's recent 
behavior and statements, including his actions and statements last 
night in Philadelphia, are unacceptable."

"Some of our other players appeared to find Gilbert's behavior in 
Philadelphia amusing. This is also unacceptable. Under Abe Pollin's 
leadership, our organization never tolerated such behavior, and we 
have no intention of ever doing so."

The suspension, per Stern will remain "pending the completion of the 
investigation by the NBA".  This means that he'll be out at least 
until the police are done, so there can be a full assessment of what happened.

It's been truly mind-boggling how, despite repeated chances to 
minimize the potential punishments by at least acting like he was 
sorry, Arenas continuously said and did things that clearly showed he 
still thinks this is come kind of a joke.

Now, he'll face the full weight of the temper of David Stern, who has 
undoubtedly been itching to somehow shut Gilbert's big mouth, at 
least for a while.  The situation also makes it hard for Union Rep 
Billy hunter to follow through on his promise to fight any attempt to 
void Gilbert's contract.  That's the only viable punishment left if 
the investigation confirms what happened.

Oh, and this happens to be Arenas' 28th birthday.  Maybe now he'll grow up.

Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website 

From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net  Wed Jan  6 22:16:03 2010
From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:16:03 -0500
Subject: Full suspension statements from Stern, Wizards
Message-ID: <20100106221615.B4676E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>


NEW YORK, Jan. 6, 2010 -- National Basketball Association 
Commissioner David Stern issued the following statement today:

"The possession of firearms by an NBA player in an NBA arena is a 
matter of the utmost concern to us. I initially thought it prudent to 
refrain from taking immediate action because of the pendency of a 
criminal investigation involving the office of the United States 
Attorney for the District of Columbia and the Metropolitan Police 
Department, and the consideration of this matter by a grand jury 
sitting in the District of Columbia. For the same reason, I directed 
the Wizards to refrain from taking any action.

Wizards personnel continue to be interviewed by law enforcement 
authorities, some are scheduled for appearance before the grand jury 
and the investigation is proceeding with the intensity that one would 
expect for such a serious incident.

"Although it is clear that the actions of Mr. Arenas will ultimately 
result in a substantial suspension, and perhaps worse, his ongoing 
conduct has led me to conclude that he is not currently fit to take 
the court in an NBA game. Accordingly, I am suspending Mr. Arenas 
indefinitely, without pay, effective immediately pending the 
completion of the investigation by the NBA."


Wizards Statement On Suspension of Arenas:

"We fully endorse the decision of the NBA to indefinitely suspend 
Gilbert Arenas. Strictly legal issues aside, Gilbert's recent 
behavior and statements, including his actions and statements last 
night in Philadelphia, are unacceptable. Some of our other players 
appeared to find Gilbert's behavior in Philadelphia amusing. This is 
also unacceptable. Under Abe Pollin's leadership, our organization 
never tolerated such behavior, and we have no intention of ever doing so."

Ernie Grunfeld, President, Washington Wizards
Irene Pollin, Principal Owner, Washington Sports and Entertainment (WSE)
Robert Pollin, Chief Executive Officer, WSE
James Pollin, President, WSE


Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website 

From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net  Wed Jan  6 22:40:59 2010
From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:40:59 -0500
Subject: Gilbert, its not a joke.
Message-ID: <20100106224112.56BE1E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>

 From David Stern's statement on the suspension of Gilbert Arenas...

"...a criminal investigation involving the office of the United 
States Attorney for the District of Columbia and the Metropolitan 
Police Department, and the consideration of this matter by a grand 
jury sitting in the District of Columbia. For the same reason, I 
directed the Wizards to refrain from taking any action.

"Wizards personnel continue to be interviewed by law enforcement 
authorities, some are scheduled for appearance before the grand jury 
and the investigation is proceeding with the intensity that one would 
expect for such a serious incident."

I hope Gilbert got himself a good attorney.  This is major serious 
stuff.  If he takes the Grand Jury as lightly as he's taken every 
other aspect of this matter, he can expect to spend a few birthdays 
in jail after he gets booted from the NBA.

And he WILL get kicked out, somehow.

I cannot imagine that the Wizards will keep Arenas, whether they void 
his contract, trade him, buy him out, or simply tell him to go 
away.  Neither can I imagine any other team taking a flyer on him 
after this.  Granted, other NBA players have had issues with guns, 
but none of them quite like this, putting players, personnel and fans 
so directly at risk.

Billy Hunter can make all the proclamations he wants about fighting a 
voiding of the contract for a morals clause, but this was too 
egregious for anyone to overlook.  He's been busted for weapons 
violations before.  He knew the NBA prohibited firearms on League 
property.  He should have known that transporting a box of weapons 
across state lines without proper paperwork was illegal.  And even as 
a "joke", he had to know that offering his teammate a gun for the 
chance to settle a disagreement over a $25,000 gambling debt incurred 
on the team plane was a bad idea at the very least.

If I owned the Wizards, I'd be drawing up the paperwork for the 
voiding by now, waiting only for the official case to be 
concluded.  At the very least, I'd ask for cap relief (if possible).

Jarvis Crittendon, who has somehow escaped the same scrutiny as 
Arenas, should also prepare for similar results, if the investigation 
bears out what has been said of his involvement.  In fairness, 
Crittendon has not made any detailed public statements on the matter 
that I know of, so the degree of his criminal behavior/utter 
stupidity is still uncertain.

Somehow, throughout every stage of this matter to date, Arenas has 
treated the whole thing like a joke.  He STILL thinks he did nothing wrong.

Well, he's about to learn how serious this is. 

From pmm at igtc.com  Wed Jan  6 23:17:46 2010
From: pmm at igtc.com (Paul M. Moriarty)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:17:46 -0800
Subject: Terms of Use Guidelines
Message-ID: <69A92A5D-2E0C-457F-B1A7-D59DD8CFC97B@igtc.com>

As we enter the 18th year of the list, I'm sending out the terms of use as a reminder of what's cool and what's not on the list.  As a reminder, personal attacks are not cool for the list (under, "if an admin asks you to do something..." :)  

If you do not agree to abide by these terms, please unsubscribe.

Thanks!

- Paul -

This page defines the terms of service for using igtc.com and the services supplied by this site. We request that all users of our site abide by the rules we have defined for their use. If you're unwilling or unable to abide by these rules, please do not use our services. Violators of our rules may find their usage privileges reduced or revoked.

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Attempts to "hack" the site or circumvent site security.

Abuse of the site, the administrators or the users of this site.

Posting chain letters or any of the e-mail hoaxes circulating the net. If the hoax is already documented in one of the hoax sites (like the Symantec Center or the Ciac hoaxbusters page, posting it is grounds for removal from our sites. We are very serious about killing these hoaxes off the net, and we have no tolerance of people who forward them around without doing basic research as to whether they're accurate or not. These things are nothing more than viruses -- e-mail viruses that infect mailing lists. If you infect our list, we'll treat it as a serious offense.

Excessive profanity or inappropriate language. We are tolerant of some profanity, but we also realize that some of our members are upset by its use. We don't believe it makes sense to outlaw it outright, but we also want our users to be sensitive to the other members of the list and show some discretion. We don't like to make occasional use an issue, but when it gets out of control, we'll ask you to tone it down.

Any attempt to harvest e-mail addresses for commercial purposes, or to use e-mail addresses or any user information on this site for any purpose not related to this site will be considered grounds for immediate banning of this site.

Spamming or commercial posts -- Do not post commercial posts unless you have the approval of the admin, or the forum area explicitly allows it. All unapproved or misplaced advertising and commercial postings will reconsidered spamming and will be treated as such with banning from the site and reporting your activities to your ISP. Within the forums that do allow this, messages that are not relevant to the topic of the forum will be deleted, and we will consider banning repeat offenders.

We reserve the right to delete messages from our system that we feel are abusive or inappropriate for our audience. We reserve the right to relocate posted messages to more appropriate locations on our site if they're posted in an incorrect location. We also reserve the right to report cases of abuse to a user's ISP for further disciplinary action.

Try to stay on topic -- but realize that topics will wander, just as a conversation at a party does. If a topic wanders, be patient, tune out or change the subject. Don't yell at people about it.

Keep your messages short -- succinct is good. Long and rambling is not.

Spelling and Grammar do matter. The Internet is a written medium, and poorly written or sloppy messages make it hard for other users to take the content seriously. If you don't care enough about your thoughts to present them well, why should anyone else care about them?

Don't guess -- if you don't know the answer to a question, don't guess. Look it up, or let someone else answer it. There are few things more frustrating to a user than to ask a question and get four answers, only one of which can be right -- and not knowing which one is.

Edit included messages in replies to minimize the amount of text. The more you hide your words by surrounding them with included text, the less likely people will find and read them.

From bceltics33 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 01:40:14 2010
From: bceltics33 at gmail.com (Anne Cankosyan)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:40:14 -0500
Subject: Terms of Use Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <69A92A5D-2E0C-457F-B1A7-D59DD8CFC97B@igtc.com>
References: <69A92A5D-2E0C-457F-B1A7-D59DD8CFC97B@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <43f1fb1e1001061740w6ce9621aud002b010c4bacabf@mail.gmail.com>

18 years???  I am starting to feel old right about now!

AC
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Paul M. Moriarty <pmm at igtc.com> wrote:

> As we enter the 18th year of the list, I'm sending out the terms of use as
> a reminder of what's cool and what's not on the list.  As a reminder,
> personal attacks are not cool for the list (under, "if an admin asks you to
> do something..." :)
>
> If you do not agree to abide by these terms, please unsubscribe.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Paul -
>
> This page defines the terms of service for using igtc.com and the services
> supplied by this site. We request that all users of our site abide by the
> rules we have defined for their use. If you're unwilling or unable to abide
> by these rules, please do not use our services. Violators of our rules may
> find their usage privileges reduced or revoked.
>
> Rules for Using Our Services
>
> We are trying to keep our usage rules simple, to give our users as much
> flexibility as we can while protecting them from the abusers. We want to
> assume that our users are mature adults and will act appropriately, and work
> with us to abide by the spirit of the rules; by doing so, we can avoid a
> list of rules that looks like they were written by a lawyer with a
> headache...
>
> We have a few key rules for using our site:
>
> If you are using one of our services and see something you feel is
> inappropriate, please report it to us. Do not attempt to 'fix' the problem
> yourself -- that almost always makes it worse, and many times gets in the
> way of an administrator who's already working on it. Also, trying to do it
> yourself will probably get you in trouble with us instead of (or with) the
> other person, and you won't like that. Let the people in charge handle it.
>
> If an administrator asks you to stop doing something, stop doing it. If you
> disagree with the request, we'll talk about it, but ultimately, this isn't a
> democracy. The site admins have the final say. If a non-administrator asks
> you to stop doing something -- use your judgment. If you agree with the
> complaint, stop. If not, you decline politely, or ask the administrator to
> mediate. If a disagreement escalates into a flamewar, everyone involved
> could be subject to disciplinary action.
>
> If we don't get complaints, it's difficult for us to act on them, because
> we aren't mind-readers. If you don't like how something is being managed or
> used, let us know, but please don't assume that because you complain we will
> do something -- we'll investigate and decide what (if anything) needs to be
> done on a case by case basis.
>
> There are a few things which we will not tolerate, and which can lead to
> losing your posting privileges or be completely banned from the site:
>
> Attempts to "hack" the site or circumvent site security.
>
> Abuse of the site, the administrators or the users of this site.
>
> Posting chain letters or any of the e-mail hoaxes circulating the net. If
> the hoax is already documented in one of the hoax sites (like the Symantec
> Center or the Ciac hoaxbusters page, posting it is grounds for removal from
> our sites. We are very serious about killing these hoaxes off the net, and
> we have no tolerance of people who forward them around without doing basic
> research as to whether they're accurate or not. These things are nothing
> more than viruses -- e-mail viruses that infect mailing lists. If you infect
> our list, we'll treat it as a serious offense.
>
> Excessive profanity or inappropriate language. We are tolerant of some
> profanity, but we also realize that some of our members are upset by its
> use. We don't believe it makes sense to outlaw it outright, but we also want
> our users to be sensitive to the other members of the list and show some
> discretion. We don't like to make occasional use an issue, but when it gets
> out of control, we'll ask you to tone it down.
>
> Any attempt to harvest e-mail addresses for commercial purposes, or to use
> e-mail addresses or any user information on this site for any purpose not
> related to this site will be considered grounds for immediate banning of
> this site.
>
> Spamming or commercial posts -- Do not post commercial posts unless you
> have the approval of the admin, or the forum area explicitly allows it. All
> unapproved or misplaced advertising and commercial postings will
> reconsidered spamming and will be treated as such with banning from the site
> and reporting your activities to your ISP. Within the forums that do allow
> this, messages that are not relevant to the topic of the forum will be
> deleted, and we will consider banning repeat offenders.
>
> We reserve the right to delete messages from our system that we feel are
> abusive or inappropriate for our audience. We reserve the right to relocate
> posted messages to more appropriate locations on our site if they're posted
> in an incorrect location. We also reserve the right to report cases of abuse
> to a user's ISP for further disciplinary action.
>
> Try to stay on topic -- but realize that topics will wander, just as a
> conversation at a party does. If a topic wanders, be patient, tune out or
> change the subject. Don't yell at people about it.
>
> Keep your messages short -- succinct is good. Long and rambling is not.
>
> Spelling and Grammar do matter. The Internet is a written medium, and
> poorly written or sloppy messages make it hard for other users to take the
> content seriously. If you don't care enough about your thoughts to present
> them well, why should anyone else care about them?
>
> Don't guess -- if you don't know the answer to a question, don't guess.
> Look it up, or let someone else answer it. There are few things more
> frustrating to a user than to ask a question and get four answers, only one
> of which can be right -- and not knowing which one is.
>
> Edit included messages in replies to minimize the amount of text. The more
> you hide your words by surrounding them with included text, the less likely
> people will find and read them.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net  Thu Jan  7 02:01:25 2010
From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: Terms of Use Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <43f1fb1e1001061740w6ce9621aud002b010c4bacabf@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <69A92A5D-2E0C-457F-B1A7-D59DD8CFC97B@igtc.com>
	<43f1fb1e1001061740w6ce9621aud002b010c4bacabf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100107020136.CDA73E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>

You know you're old if you remember when Barney was the next door 
neighbor and Dino was the purple dinosaur.  :)

At 08:40 PM 1/6/2010, Anne Cankosyan wrote:

>18 years???  I am starting to feel old right about now!
>
>AC
>On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Paul M. Moriarty <pmm at igtc.com> wrote:
>
> > As we enter the 18th year of the list, I'm sending out the terms of use as
> > a reminder of what's cool and what's not on the list.  As a reminder,
> > personal attacks are not cool for the list (under, "if an admin asks you to
> > do something..." :)
> >
> > If you do not agree to abide by these terms, please unsubscribe.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > - Paul -
> >
> > This page defines the terms of service for using igtc.com and the services
> > supplied by this site. We request that all users of our site abide by the
> > rules we have defined for their use. If you're unwilling or unable to abide
> > by these rules, please do not use our services. Violators of our rules may
> > find their usage privileges reduced or revoked.
> >
> > Rules for Using Our Services
> >
> > We are trying to keep our usage rules simple, to give our users as much
> > flexibility as we can while protecting them from the abusers. We want to
> > assume that our users are mature adults and will act 
> appropriately, and work
> > with us to abide by the spirit of the rules; by doing so, we can avoid a
> > list of rules that looks like they were written by a lawyer with a
> > headache...
> >
> > We have a few key rules for using our site:
> >
> > If you are using one of our services and see something you feel is
> > inappropriate, please report it to us. Do not attempt to 'fix' the problem
> > yourself -- that almost always makes it worse, and many times gets in the
> > way of an administrator who's already working on it. Also, trying to do it
> > yourself will probably get you in trouble with us instead of (or with) the
> > other person, and you won't like that. Let the people in charge handle it.
> >
> > If an administrator asks you to stop doing something, stop doing it. If you
> > disagree with the request, we'll talk about it, but ultimately, 
> this isn't a
> > democracy. The site admins have the final say. If a non-administrator asks
> > you to stop doing something -- use your judgment. If you agree with the
> > complaint, stop. If not, you decline politely, or ask the administrator to
> > mediate. If a disagreement escalates into a flamewar, everyone involved
> > could be subject to disciplinary action.
> >
> > If we don't get complaints, it's difficult for us to act on them, because
> > we aren't mind-readers. If you don't like how something is being managed or
> > used, let us know, but please don't assume that because you 
> complain we will
> > do something -- we'll investigate and decide what (if anything) needs to be
> > done on a case by case basis.
> >
> > There are a few things which we will not tolerate, and which can lead to
> > losing your posting privileges or be completely banned from the site:
> >
> > Attempts to "hack" the site or circumvent site security.
> >
> > Abuse of the site, the administrators or the users of this site.
> >
> > Posting chain letters or any of the e-mail hoaxes circulating the net. If
> > the hoax is already documented in one of the hoax sites (like the Symantec
> > Center or the Ciac hoaxbusters page, posting it is grounds for removal from
> > our sites. We are very serious about killing these hoaxes off the net, and
> > we have no tolerance of people who forward them around without doing basic
> > research as to whether they're accurate or not. These things are nothing
> > more than viruses -- e-mail viruses that infect mailing lists. If 
> you infect
> > our list, we'll treat it as a serious offense.
> >
> > Excessive profanity or inappropriate language. We are tolerant of some
> > profanity, but we also realize that some of our members are upset by its
> > use. We don't believe it makes sense to outlaw it outright, but 
> we also want
> > our users to be sensitive to the other members of the list and show some
> > discretion. We don't like to make occasional use an issue, but when it gets
> > out of control, we'll ask you to tone it down.
> >
> > Any attempt to harvest e-mail addresses for commercial purposes, or to use
> > e-mail addresses or any user information on this site for any purpose not
> > related to this site will be considered grounds for immediate banning of
> > this site.
> >
> > Spamming or commercial posts -- Do not post commercial posts unless you
> > have the approval of the admin, or the forum area explicitly allows it. All
> > unapproved or misplaced advertising and commercial postings will
> > reconsidered spamming and will be treated as such with banning 
> from the site
> > and reporting your activities to your ISP. Within the forums that do allow
> > this, messages that are not relevant to the topic of the forum will be
> > deleted, and we will consider banning repeat offenders.
> >
> > We reserve the right to delete messages from our system that we feel are
> > abusive or inappropriate for our audience. We reserve the right to relocate
> > posted messages to more appropriate locations on our site if they're posted
> > in an incorrect location. We also reserve the right to report 
> cases of abuse
> > to a user's ISP for further disciplinary action.
> >
> > Try to stay on topic -- but realize that topics will wander, just as a
> > conversation at a party does. If a topic wanders, be patient, tune out or
> > change the subject. Don't yell at people about it.
> >
> > Keep your messages short -- succinct is good. Long and rambling is not.
> >
> > Spelling and Grammar do matter. The Internet is a written medium, and
> > poorly written or sloppy messages make it hard for other users to take the
> > content seriously. If you don't care enough about your thoughts to present
> > them well, why should anyone else care about them?
> >
> > Don't guess -- if you don't know the answer to a question, don't guess.
> > Look it up, or let someone else answer it. There are few things more
> > frustrating to a user than to ask a question and get four answers, only one
> > of which can be right -- and not knowing which one is.
> >
> > Edit included messages in replies to minimize the amount of text. The more
> > you hide your words by surrounding them with included text, the less likely
> > people will find and read them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jahillsr at comcast.net  Thu Jan  7 02:52:10 2010
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:52:10 -0500
Subject: Terms of Use Guidelines
Message-ID: <000801ca8f44$687ab220$39701660$@net>

That's funny.  Also, too true . .

 

<Jim

 

Snoopy opined:

 

You know you're old if you remember when Barney was the next door 

neighbor and Dino was the purple dinosaur.  :)

 

At 08:40 PM 1/6/2010, Anne Cankosyan wrote:

 

>18 years???  I am starting to feel old right about now!

> 

>AC

 


From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 03:46:16 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 19:46:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Big Win!
In-Reply-To: <000801ca8f44$687ab220$39701660$@net>
References: <000801ca8f44$687ab220$39701660$@net>
Message-ID: <393765.81654.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What a great finish after it looked like we gave it up. Rondo and Baby were big. Great alley oop to rondo off the inbounds with .6 left.

From leew at nycap.rr.com  Thu Jan  7 04:01:02 2010
From: leew at nycap.rr.com (Bill Lee)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:01:02 -0500
Subject: Lester Hudson waived
Message-ID: <4B455C7E.7050207@nycap.rr.com>

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/01/celtics_waive_l.html



From Eric at ericalbert.net  Thu Jan  7 14:49:45 2010
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:49:45 -0500
Subject: Egg's supposed inside info
Message-ID: <20100107145000.D5752E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>

I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I could, so I'll drop this topic now.

One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!

-- Eric

>Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Interesting research, Eric.  I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not predictions.  But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things against the wall, something's bound to stick.  Insider or not, true or false or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate as any non-insider guess.  Most list members have 'predicted' things that turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim inside sources.  The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider info.  Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future, making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.  
>
>It's all semantics anyway.  If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.  But hubris comes with any claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
>
>Ryan


From jbrainin at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 16:48:02 2010
From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:48:02 -0500
Subject: Egg's supposed inside info
In-Reply-To: <20100107145000.D5752E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>
References: <20100107145000.D5752E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <15e848071001070848w26dd5ec0o1791270d9f15a3a7@mail.gmail.com>

Who predicted Hudson being waived?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I
> could, so I'll drop this topic now.
>
> One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for
> suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!
>
> -- Eric
>
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Interesting research, Eric.  I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie
> or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not
> predictions.  But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things
> against the wall, something's bound to stick.  Insider or not, true or false
> or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate
> as any non-insider guess.  Most list members have 'predicted' things that
> turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim
> inside sources.  The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider
> info.  Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future,
> making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.
> >
> >It's all semantics anyway.  If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as
> 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.  But hubris comes with any
> claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
> >
> >Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  7 17:38:10 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:38:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hudson waived
In-Reply-To: <15e848071001070848w26dd5ec0o1791270d9f15a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <875737.66877.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Not me! ? Very disappointed. ?If they're making room for the trade deadline, are they looking at a PG? ?Why was it Hudson over Walker or Giddens?
Ellie

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:48 AM

Who predicted Hudson being waived?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I
> could, so I'll drop this topic now.
>
> One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for
> suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!
>
> -- Eric
>
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Interesting research, Eric.? I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie
> or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not
> predictions.? But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things
> against the wall, something's bound to stick.? Insider or not, true or false
> or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate
> as any non-insider guess.? Most list members have 'predicted' things that
> turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim
> inside sources.? The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider
> info.? Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future,
> making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.
> >
> >It's all semantics anyway.? If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as
> 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.? But hubris comes with any
> claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
> >
> >Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jan  7 17:41:00 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 12:41:00 -0500
Subject: Hudson waived
Message-ID: <201001071741.o07Hf1fg018523@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

The PG on the bench wearing a suit - Mr "Coach" Lue - 10 will get you 20 he's the replacement.


----- Original Message -----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com <celtics-bounces at igtc.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thu Jan 07 12:38:10 2010
Subject: Hudson waived

Not me! ? Very disappointed. ?If they're making room for the trade deadline, are they looking at a PG? ?Why was it Hudson over Walker or Giddens?
Ellie

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:48 AM

Who predicted Hudson being waived?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I
> could, so I'll drop this topic now.
>
> One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for
> suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!
>
> -- Eric
>
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Interesting research, Eric.? I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie
> or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not
> predictions.? But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things
> against the wall, something's bound to stick.? Insider or not, true or false
> or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate
> as any non-insider guess.? Most list members have 'predicted' things that
> turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim
> inside sources.? The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider
> info.? Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future,
> making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.
> >
> >It's all semantics anyway.? If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as
> 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.? But hubris comes with any
> claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
> >
> >Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 17:48:01 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 17:48:01 +0000
Subject: Hudson waived
In-Reply-To: <875737.66877.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <15e848071001070848w26dd5ec0o1791270d9f15a3a7@mail.gmail.com><875737.66877.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1709425681-1262886480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1740909340-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Someone mentioned skip to my lou was available, is that correct?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:38:10 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Hudson waived

Not me! ? Very disappointed. ?If they're making room for the trade deadline, are they looking at a PG? ?Why was it Hudson over Walker or Giddens?
Ellie

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:48 AM

Who predicted Hudson being waived?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I
> could, so I'll drop this topic now.
>
> One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for
> suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!
>
> -- Eric
>
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Interesting research, Eric.? I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie
> or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not
> predictions.? But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things
> against the wall, something's bound to stick.? Insider or not, true or false
> or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate
> as any non-insider guess.? Most list members have 'predicted' things that
> turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim
> inside sources.? The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider
> info.? Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future,
> making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.
> >
> >It's all semantics anyway.? If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as
> 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.? But hubris comes with any
> claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
> >
> >Ryan
>
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu Jan  7 17:36:54 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:36:54 -0500
Subject: Hudson
In-Reply-To: <15e848071001070848w26dd5ec0o1791270d9f15a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100107145000.D5752E1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>
	<15e848071001070848w26dd5ec0o1791270d9f15a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC5DD723192B7F-33BC-10D67@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com>

No one.  I suspect that it's about the roster spot, but wonder about 
the backup point slot more than I did before.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 8:48 am
Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info


Who predicted Hudson being waived?


From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 19:30:06 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:30:06 +0000
Subject: Hudson waived
In-Reply-To: <201001071741.o07Hf1fg018523@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
References: <201001071741.o07Hf1fg018523@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <1509232355-1262892605-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-799931415-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I found  it amusing at a recent game I noticed lue comes in with a 10" pad that he sits on 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:41:00 
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Hudson waived

The PG on the bench wearing a suit - Mr "Coach" Lue - 10 will get you 20 he's the replacement.


----- Original Message -----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com <celtics-bounces at igtc.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thu Jan 07 12:38:10 2010
Subject: Hudson waived

Not me! ? Very disappointed. ?If they're making room for the trade deadline, are they looking at a PG? ?Why was it Hudson over Walker or Giddens?
Ellie

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:48 AM

Who predicted Hudson being waived?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

> I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said it better than I
> could, so I'll drop this topic now.
>
> One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some list love for
> suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they became Celtics!
>
> -- Eric
>
> >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Interesting research, Eric.? I didn't remember the 'predictions' of Ellie
> or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them, suggestions and not
> predictions.? But your point is well-taken--if you throw enough things
> against the wall, something's bound to stick.? Insider or not, true or false
> or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a chance as being accurate
> as any non-insider guess.? Most list members have 'predicted' things that
> turned out to be true, the only difference being that most don't claim
> inside sources.? The animus, if any, stems from the claim of secret insider
> info.? Problem is, even the most inside insiders can't predict the future,
> making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in most instances.
> >
> >It's all semantics anyway.? If Egg had just crouched her 'predictions' as
> 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.? But hubris comes with any
> claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg should already know.
> >
> >Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  7 23:44:55 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:44:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hudson waived
In-Reply-To: <201001071741.o07Hf1fg018523@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <216754.78646.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

No chance, Pat.  Lue is D-O-N-E.  This move was about money and roster flexibility.  

Hudson was cut before 6 p.m. on January 6th for one specific reason: because they didn't want to have to guarantee his contract.  Any player on a non-guaranteed contract (like Les) who doesn't clear waivers by January 10th automatically becomes a guaranteed contract for the entire season.  Since the 10th is on a Sunday, that means the deadline was basically the 8th, since the NBA doesn't do business on the weekends.  

Once he clears waivers, I think they'll sign him back, probably to a couple 10-day contracts.  You don't fly a guy to Miami, run him through shoot-around, and cut him in the afternoon just for the hell of it.  The Cs still think he has a future with the team, or they would have cut him BEFORE the flight to Miami.  

Even with the money considerations, I would have cut Giddens 100 times out of a 100 before I would ever have thought of cutting Les.  But cutting Hudson does save money, even if they end up giving him a contract for the rest of the season sometime later in the season.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: Re: Hudson waived
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:41 AM
> The PG on the bench wearing a suit -
> Mr "Coach" Lue - 10 will get you 20 he's the replacement.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> <celtics-bounces at igtc.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Thu Jan 07 12:38:10 2010
> Subject: Hudson waived
> 
> Not me! ? Very disappointed. ?If they're making room for
> the trade deadline, are they looking at a PG? ?Why was it
> Hudson over Walker or Giddens?
> Ellie
> 
> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Egg's supposed inside info
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 11:48 AM
> 
> Who predicted Hudson being waived?
> 
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > I agree with everything Ryan said (below), and he said
> it better than I
> > could, so I'll drop this topic now.
> >
> > One final observation: let's give Ellie Cutler some
> list love for
> > suggesting *both* Giddens and Hudson long before they
> became Celtics!
> >
> > -- Eric
> >
> > >Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >Interesting research, Eric.? I didn't remember
> the 'predictions' of Ellie
> > or Ray, though they seem to be, when I re-read them,
> suggestions and not
> > predictions.? But your point is well-taken--if you
> throw enough things
> > against the wall, something's bound to stick.?
> Insider or not, true or false
> > or in-between, Egg's 'info' probably has as much a
> chance as being accurate
> > as any non-insider guess.? Most list members have
> 'predicted' things that
> > turned out to be true, the only difference being that
> most don't claim
> > inside sources.? The animus, if any, stems from the
> claim of secret insider
> > info.? Problem is, even the most inside insiders
> can't predict the future,
> > making the claim of insider info almost meaningless in
> most instances.
> > >
> > >It's all semantics anyway.? If Egg had just
> crouched her 'predictions' as
> > 'guesses' there wouldn't be near as much outrage.?
> But hubris comes with any
> > claim of secret knowledge, something I think Egg
> should already know.
> > >
> > >Ryan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 03:49:21 2010
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 19:49:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It is folly 
Message-ID: <336212.44671.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by playing Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens and Walker some run, this was it. 

(By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off waivers by the Grizzlies.)


      


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sat Jan  9 05:15:03 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:15:03 -0500
Subject: It is folly 
In-Reply-To: <336212.44671.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <336212.44671.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <065801ca90ea$b32c4390$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

If Danny really has taken a look at this team as he said yesterday and sees
"no current needs" he better have his eyes checked immediately!!!  Run,
don't walk, straight to the eye doctor!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:49 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: It is folly

for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by playing
Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens and
Walker some run, this was it.

(By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off
waivers by the Grizzlies.)




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 01/08/10
02:35:00



From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Jan  9 05:46:52 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:46:52 -0500
Subject: It is folly 
In-Reply-To: <065801ca90ea$b32c4390$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
References: <336212.44671.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<065801ca90ea$b32c4390$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <8CC5F0647A3AAE3-4058-D14D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>

I'm no savant, but I don't have any major concerns beyond the 2nd 
string point. Players have been in and out of the lineup with injuries. 
Wallace looks like his fire is gradually getting lit. Yeah, losses 
suck, but I still think this is a championship caliber team. Only our 
injury report in April will mean much now.


-----Original Message-----
From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:15 pm
Subject: RE: It is folly


If Danny really has taken a look at this team as he said yesterday and 
sees
"no current needs" he better have his eyes checked immediately!!! Run,
don't walk, straight to the eye doctor!

-----Original Message-----
 From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:49 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: It is folly

for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by 
playing
Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens 
and
Walker some run, this was it.

(By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off
waivers by the Grizzlies.)




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 
01/08/10
02:35:00


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sat Jan  9 05:54:00 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:54:00 -0500
Subject: It is folly 
In-Reply-To: <8CC5F0647A3AAE3-4058-D14D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
References: <336212.44671.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><065801ca90ea$b32c4390$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
	<8CC5F0647A3AAE3-4058-D14D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <065901ca90f0$2483d210$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

So you don't have a problem with our old guys having to play 38- 40 minutes
every game??  I do and our bench especially at the point is lacking.  We
have chips to use in trades with Giddens, Scal & House,  USE them!  That is
all I am saying, not the sky is fallling.  But our bench needs help.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of douglas342 at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:47 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: It is folly

I'm no savant, but I don't have any major concerns beyond the 2nd string
point. Players have been in and out of the lineup with injuries.
Wallace looks like his fire is gradually getting lit. Yeah, losses suck, but
I still think this is a championship caliber team. Only our injury report in
April will mean much now.


-----Original Message-----
From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:15 pm
Subject: RE: It is folly


If Danny really has taken a look at this team as he said yesterday and sees
"no current needs" he better have his eyes checked immediately!!! Run, don't
walk, straight to the eye doctor!

-----Original Message-----
 From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:49 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: It is folly

for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by playing
Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens and
Walker some run, this was it.

(By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off
waivers by the Grizzlies.)




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date:
01/08/10
02:35:00


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 01/08/10
02:35:00



From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 14:07:57 2010
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 06:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hudson/giddens
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1263000297.26956.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.1.1263000297.26956.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <356172.81318.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

agree--the hudson cut was about money and roster flexibility. 

disagree on giddens. i'm seeing some signs that he can play in this league. needs playing time and confidence, but he's played very well defensively while he's been on the floor, and that's kept many a player in the league. i'm not concerned with his offense now. that will come with time. 

disappointing loss to atlanta. not sure what happened. 

btw, what's the word on tony? was he hurt or sick last night? 

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:44:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hudson waived
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <216754.78646.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

No chance, Pat.  Lue is D-O-N-E.  This move was about money and roster flexibility.  

Hudson was cut before 6 p.m. on January 6th for one specific reason: because they didn't want to have to guarantee his contract.  Any player on a non-guaranteed contract (like Les) who doesn't clear waivers by January 10th automatically becomes a guaranteed contract for the entire season.  Since the 10th is on a Sunday, that means the deadline was basically the 8th, since the NBA doesn't do business on the weekends.  

Once he clears waivers, I think they'll sign him back, probably to a couple 10-day contracts.  You don't fly a guy to Miami, run him through shoot-around, and cut him in the afternoon just for the hell of it.  The Cs still think he has a future with the team, or they would have cut him BEFORE the flight to Miami.  

Even with the money considerations, I would have cut Giddens 100 times out of a 100 before I would ever have thought of cutting Les.  But cutting Hudson does save money, even if they end up giving him a contract for the rest of the season sometime later in the season.

Ryan


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 15:11:53 2010
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:11:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: If You Can't Beat Atlanta Or Phoenix, You're Not Beating LA
Message-ID: <344781.10524.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Too old, slow, and injury prone to win the Title this season.
"But, but, but," the Celtics fan bots cry out, "We didn't have KG!"
A common occurrence the last two seasons, and a future trend too. His knee is shot.

But, there is hope, if Jesus relocates to Oz.

Somewhere, over the rainbow, skies are blue.
And the dreams that you dare to dream
Really do come true.

Ray




      


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Sat Jan  9 15:22:40 2010
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 10:22:40 -0500
Subject: It is folly
In-Reply-To: <8CC5F0647A3AAE3-4058-D14D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <F2593E06.C135.4939.BC21.881B63C7F39E@aol.com>

Did you see last nights game? ?I thought Rasheed was getting into shape but
he sure lost his fire last night. ?Lazy play with 3 rebounds in almost 40 min and 
1-8 from?3 pt. line stinks. ?That signing sure was overated. ?

Agree with tsb's concern over Ainge saying we have no needs. ?Last year he
didn't think we needed Posey and this year we don't need a backup pg. What's his
problem in?refusing to bring in a backup pg. ?We're 5 and 5 in last 10 and that's 
who we are right now no better then?a .500 team.

Any new news on Garnett. ?Sure could use him.

Joe




On Jan 9, 2010, at 12:46:52 AM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:

I'm no savant, but I don't have any major concerns beyond the 2nd 
string point. Players have been in and out of the lineup with injuries. 
Wallace looks like his fire is gradually getting lit. Yeah, losses 
suck, but I still think this is a championship caliber team. Only our 
injury report in April will mean much now.


From davep4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan  9 16:51:03 2010
From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 11:51:03 -0500
Subject: It is folly
In-Reply-To: <8CC5F0647A3AAE3-4058-D14D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100109115103.HHNSN.78985.imail@eastrmwml46>

Forgetting for a moment that we have no Daniels or Garnett which adds to the lack of depth of this team, I doubt Walker of Giddens would have made the difference.  We lost that game in the 3rd quarter becasue we shot like "the gang the couldn't shoot straight".  It was a winable game, even with a depleted team. Besides, the Cavs, and the Lakers got beat as well, and we still hold the best record in the Eastern Conference.  Obvioulsy Doc and Danny see something that fans don't see.
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> I'm no savant, but I don't have any major concerns beyond the 2nd 
> string point. Players have been in and out of the lineup with injuries. 
> Wallace looks like his fire is gradually getting lit. Yeah, losses 
> suck, but I still think this is a championship caliber team. Only our 
> injury report in April will mean much now.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:15 pm
> Subject: RE: It is folly
> 
> 
> If Danny really has taken a look at this team as he said yesterday and 
> sees
> "no current needs" he better have his eyes checked immediately!!! Run,
> don't walk, straight to the eye doctor!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
> Behalf
> Of Peter Delevett
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: It is folly
> 
> for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by 
> playing
> Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens 
> and
> Walker some run, this was it.
> 
> (By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off
> waivers by the Grizzlies.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 
> 01/08/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davep4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan  9 16:52:44 2010
From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 11:52:44 -0500
Subject: It is folly
In-Reply-To: <065901ca90f0$2483d210$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <20100109115244.5AI2R.79002.imail@eastrmwml46>

I don't, as they haven't played much and I doubt they'd give us what our elders do.  When Garnett and Daniels make it back, we won't be talking about Giddens or Walker for the rest of the year.
---- TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote: 
> So you don't have a problem with our old guys having to play 38- 40 minutes
> every game??  I do and our bench especially at the point is lacking.  We
> have chips to use in trades with Giddens, Scal & House,  USE them!  That is
> all I am saying, not the sky is fallling.  But our bench needs help.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:47 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: It is folly
> 
> I'm no savant, but I don't have any major concerns beyond the 2nd string
> point. Players have been in and out of the lineup with injuries.
> Wallace looks like his fire is gradually getting lit. Yeah, losses suck, but
> I still think this is a championship caliber team. Only our injury report in
> April will mean much now.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:15 pm
> Subject: RE: It is folly
> 
> 
> If Danny really has taken a look at this team as he said yesterday and sees
> "no current needs" he better have his eyes checked immediately!!! Run, don't
> walk, straight to the eye doctor!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Peter Delevett
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: It is folly
> 
> for Doc to think he can beat young, athletic teams like the Hawks by playing
> Pierce and Ray 40+ minutes. If ever there were a game to give Giddens and
> Walker some run, this was it.
> 
> (By the way, in case you missed it: Lester Hudson has been claimed off
> waivers by the Grizzlies.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date:
> 01/08/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 01/08/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davep4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan  9 16:55:16 2010
From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 11:55:16 -0500
Subject: If You Can't Beat Atlanta Or Phoenix, You're Not Beating LA
In-Reply-To: <344781.10524.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100109115516.UI7T4.79036.imail@eastrmwml46>

Tell you what.  If Garnett makes it back, stop your insane posts.  If he doesn't, I'll stop mine.  Fair enough? Byt the way, Ray, his knee didn't look so shot when he was playing this season.  It's just a minor set back.  I'd worry more about the Lakers and their fragility.
---- Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Too old, slow, and injury prone to win the Title this season.
> "But, but, but," the Celtics fan bots cry out, "We didn't have KG!"
> A common occurrence the last two seasons, and a future trend too. His knee is shot.
> 
> But, there is hope, if Jesus relocates to Oz.
> 
> Somewhere, over the rainbow, skies are blue.
> And the dreams that you dare to dream
> Really do come true.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 18:03:10 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:03:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It is folly
In-Reply-To: <F2593E06.C135.4939.BC21.881B63C7F39E@aol.com>
Message-ID: <608444.77494.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: It is folly
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 9:22 AM
> Did you see last nights game? ?I
> thought Rasheed was getting into shape but
> he sure lost his fire last night. ?Lazy play with 3
> rebounds in almost 40 min and 
> 1-8 from?3 pt. line stinks. ?That signing sure was
> overated. ?

One game does not an overrated signing make.  Sheed's 35, he's going to have some not-so-stellar nights.  He's not a good matchup against the Hawk bigs, and the Cs offense settled way too much for jumpers and had terrible ball movement.  

> 
> Agree with tsb's concern over Ainge saying we have no
> needs. ?Last year he
> didn't think we needed Posey and this year we don't need a
> backup pg. What's his
> problem in?refusing to bring in a backup pg. ?We're 5 and
> 5 in last 10 and that's 
> who we are right now no better then?a .500 team.

We didn't need Posey last season, nor do we need a backup point right now (though Hudson could have helped with a different, more creative coach).  We just need all our pieces put together for a solid stretch--that's what Ainge was saying....when we're healthy, we have no needs.

That said, we could use upgrades at House's and Scal's positions.  I'm done with those two.

Ryan


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 18:16:30 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:16:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hudson/giddens
In-Reply-To: <356172.81318.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161169.6322.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: hudson/giddens
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:07 AM
> agree--the hudson cut was about money
> and roster flexibility. 
> 
> disagree on giddens. i'm seeing some signs that he can play
> in this league. needs playing time and confidence, but he's
> played very well defensively while he's been on the floor,
> and that's kept many a player in the league. i'm not
> concerned with his offense now. that will come with time. 

Giddens made an EXCELLENT defensive play on Jamal Crawford on the last play of the 3rd quarter.  He was the perfect defensive matchup against Jamal, but Doc being Doc he left House, Rondo, and Ray out there instead.  Doc talks about defense, but when it comes down to it a player has to be competent offensively or he'll never play.  Giddens will never be competent offensively.  I mean, he still hasn't mastered the art of the catch and shoot.  For as many physical skills as he has, JR is a ridiculously limited offensive player.  

With his physical gifts and work ethic, I could see JR having a nice run at some point in his career...but it won't be on the Cs.  He's gone on July 1st, which is why I would have simply cut him (and not Hudson) had the need for a roster spot arisen.  

> 
> disappointing loss to atlanta. not sure what happened. 

Doc happened.  Doc and his bullshit rotations and retarded offensive scheme.  On a night where we lack energy, defensive athleticism, and any backup behind Ray or Paul, he refused, once again, to not play Giddens or Walker (outside of Giddens' 14 seconds of glory against Crawford), going with Scal for 5 uneventful minutes in the 1st half and then basically riding Rondo into the ground the rest of the game, while squeezing an uneven, defensively poor showing out of an obviously still-sick Eddie House.  Doc acts like putting Walker or Giddens in for significant minutes is the basketball equivalent of crossing the streams (Ghostbusters reference).  Nope, it's just Doc's lack of imagination.  He'll play his Hall of Famer, All-Star types into the ground for 3 weeks before he gives 5 minutes a game to either Walker or Giddens.  Just indefensible rotational decision-making once again.

Add to that the fact that our offense was basically stand around and set 3 screens for Ray or Eddie, or dump it down low, or ask Paul to bail us out in an isolation play.  We had ZERO ball or player movement and no pick setting.  For the millioneth time, we need to set picks for Rondo when the offense is stalled!!!!!!  Rondo can't be stopped in a high-pick situation and I'm pretty sure we didn't set one pick for him above the 3 point line all night.  On the other end, the Hawks probably ran 40-50 high picks and basically got what they wanted when they wanted it.  I know Rondo calls alot of our sets out there, but Doc is the coach and he blew this game.

> 
> btw, what's the word on tony? was he hurt or sick last
> night? 

Stomach flu, should be back on Sunday...

Ryan



      


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  9 18:45:11 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hudson/giddens
In-Reply-To: <161169.6322.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <302007.95332.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

With you on that, Ryan. ? All the lip service Doc and Danny pay to keeping the minutes down for Pierce and Ray Allen is just that. ?Frustrating to watch! ?The only player who should play the whole game, as far as I'm concerned, is Rondo. ? There is such a drop-off without him. ? Danny is making noises about all these great players that might become available - who is he talking about? And if Joe Johnson is complaining about all the empty seats in Atlanta, hey we could use you here!

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hudson/giddens
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 1:16 PM

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: hudson/giddens
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:07 AM
> agree--the hudson cut was about money
> and roster flexibility. 
> 
> disagree on giddens. i'm seeing some signs that he can play
> in this league. needs playing time and confidence, but he's
> played very well defensively while he's been on the floor,
> and that's kept many a player in the league. i'm not
> concerned with his offense now. that will come with time. 

Giddens made an EXCELLENT defensive play on Jamal Crawford on the last play of the 3rd quarter.? He was the perfect defensive matchup against Jamal, but Doc being Doc he left House, Rondo, and Ray out there instead.? Doc talks about defense, but when it comes down to it a player has to be competent offensively or he'll never play.? Giddens will never be competent offensively.? I mean, he still hasn't mastered the art of the catch and shoot.? For as many physical skills as he has, JR is a ridiculously limited offensive player.? 

With his physical gifts and work ethic, I could see JR having a nice run at some point in his career...but it won't be on the Cs.? He's gone on July 1st, which is why I would have simply cut him (and not Hudson) had the need for a roster spot arisen.? 

> 
> disappointing loss to atlanta. not sure what happened. 

Doc happened.? Doc and his bullshit rotations and retarded offensive scheme.? On a night where we lack energy, defensive athleticism, and any backup behind Ray or Paul, he refused, once again, to not play Giddens or Walker (outside of Giddens' 14 seconds of glory against Crawford), going with Scal for 5 uneventful minutes in the 1st half and then basically riding Rondo into the ground the rest of the game, while squeezing an uneven, defensively poor showing out of an obviously still-sick Eddie House.? Doc acts like putting Walker or Giddens in for significant minutes is the basketball equivalent of crossing the streams (Ghostbusters reference).? Nope, it's just Doc's lack of imagination.? He'll play his Hall of Famer, All-Star types into the ground for 3 weeks before he gives 5 minutes a game to either Walker or Giddens.? Just indefensible rotational decision-making once again.

Add to that the fact that our offense was basically stand around and set 3 screens for Ray or Eddie, or dump it down low, or ask Paul to bail us out in an isolation play.? We had ZERO ball or player movement and no pick setting.? For the millioneth time, we need to set picks for Rondo when the offense is stalled!!!!!!? Rondo can't be stopped in a high-pick situation and I'm pretty sure we didn't set one pick for him above the 3 point line all night.? On the other end, the Hawks probably ran 40-50 high picks and basically got what they wanted when they wanted it.? I know Rondo calls alot of our sets out there, but Doc is the coach and he blew this game.

> 
> btw, what's the word on tony? was he hurt or sick last
> night? 

Stomach flu, should be back on Sunday...

Ryan



? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Jan  9 22:54:25 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:54:25 -0500
Subject: fan philosophy
Message-ID: <8CC5F95D354BCA7-16D4-15D2D@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com>

Watching the Atlanta game and ruminating on the long life of this list, 
I wondered which season has been more fun for me as a fan: the ECF team 
in '01, where everything was looking up, the future was bright? Or this 
year's team, which could win it all, but whose longer-term outlook 
isn't as rosy? Would you rather be a fan up and up-and-coming midpack 
team? Or a declining elite team? Last year was a strange experience: I 
think most of us were very happy with the season, knowing that the 
championship went away with Garnett's knee, so losing to Orlando wasn't 
really a matter of whether we'd lose, but when.

Just mid-season reflections ...


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan  9 23:36:28 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 18:36:28 -0500
Subject: fan philosophy
In-Reply-To: <8CC5F95D354BCA7-16D4-15D2D@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100109183628.BVOCK.498164.imail@eastrmwml49>

Comapring both teams, I prefer this one, as it is far more talented.  The 01 team was one that just played OBie ball and just chucked up 3's (although there is a resemblance between Rasheed and Walker when it comes to shot selection).  But the 01 team wasn't really an up and coming team. It was more of a bunch of overachievers.  I'd say the Al Jefferson team the year before the Garnett trade was more intriguing as we were looking at Durant or Oden as another cornerstone.  But, as usual, the balls were not falling for us (neither were they last night).   This team, if healthy, is the best team in the NBA (forget what Ray thinks.  He forgot to mention that we took Cleveland on their court, as well as the Spurs and the Magic, and that the Lakers have played a pussy schedule so far with a plethora of home games).  
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> Watching the Atlanta game and ruminating on the long life of this list, 
> I wondered which season has been more fun for me as a fan: the ECF team 
> in '01, where everything was looking up, the future was bright? Or this 
> year's team, which could win it all, but whose longer-term outlook 
> isn't as rosy? Would you rather be a fan up and up-and-coming midpack 
> team? Or a declining elite team? Last year was a strange experience: I 
> think most of us were very happy with the season, knowing that the 
> championship went away with Garnett's knee, so losing to Orlando wasn't 
> really a matter of whether we'd lose, but when.
> 
> Just mid-season reflections ...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Mafiaso316 at aol.com  Sun Jan 10 02:13:23 2010
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:13:23 EST
Subject: If You Can't Beat Atlanta Or Phoenix, You're Not Beating LA
Message-ID: <ceb.6ff1fc5e.387a91c3@aol.com>

Squawks being blown out by Magic by 31 in 4th quarter,   I  wouldn't worry 
much about them as Garnett would have been the difference last  night.
 
 
In a message dated 1/9/2010 11:55:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
davep4660 at cox.net writes:

Tell you  what.  If Garnett makes it back, stop your insane posts.  If he  
doesn't, I'll stop mine.  Fair enough? Byt the way, Ray, his knee didn't  
look so shot when he was playing this season.  It's just a minor set  back.  
I'd worry more about the Lakers and their fragility.
---- Way  Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Too old, slow, and  injury prone to win the Title this season.
> "But, but, but," the  Celtics fan bots cry out, "We didn't have KG!"
> A common occurrence the  last two seasons, and a future trend too. His 
knee is shot.
> 
>  But, there is hope, if Jesus relocates to Oz.
> 
> Somewhere, over  the rainbow, skies are blue.
> And the dreams that you dare to  dream
> Really do come true.
> 
> Ray
> 
>  
> 
> 
>       
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sun Jan 10 02:47:24 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:47:24 -0500
Subject: If You Can't Beat Atlanta Or Phoenix, You're Not Beating LA
In-Reply-To: <ceb.6ff1fc5e.387a91c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100109214724.KMNS6.81726.imail@eastrmwml36>

Not only Garnett, but Daniels would have taken some of Pierce's minutes, which would have given his leg some rest.  and, Tony Allen (who has been playing well) with the flu didn't help either.  But I agree, Garnett would have easily made the difference.  It was a 4 point game going into the last minute and a half.  What Ray also fails to mention is the pussy schedule the Lakers started the season off with.  Something like 75% of their games have been at the Staples Center.  And when they play the Clippers, it's just like a home game because that's where the Clippers play as well.  Of course, the Hawks are in the 2nd night of back to back games, so I'm sure that doesn't help their cause.  And, we still own the best record in the East, as the Cadavers got beat last night, as did LA.
---- Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
> Squawks being blown out by Magic by 31 in 4th quarter,   I  wouldn't worry 
> much about them as Garnett would have been the difference last  night.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/9/2010 11:55:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> davep4660 at cox.net writes:
> 
> Tell you  what.  If Garnett makes it back, stop your insane posts.  If he  
> doesn't, I'll stop mine.  Fair enough? Byt the way, Ray, his knee didn't  
> look so shot when he was playing this season.  It's just a minor set  back.  
> I'd worry more about the Lakers and their fragility.
> ---- Way  Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > Too old, slow, and  injury prone to win the Title this season.
> > "But, but, but," the  Celtics fan bots cry out, "We didn't have KG!"
> > A common occurrence the  last two seasons, and a future trend too. His 
> knee is shot.
> > 
> >  But, there is hope, if Jesus relocates to Oz.
> > 
> > Somewhere, over  the rainbow, skies are blue.
> > And the dreams that you dare to  dream
> > Really do come true.
> > 
> > Ray
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> >  _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> >  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sun Jan 10 02:49:50 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:49:50 -0500
Subject: If You Can't Beat Atlanta Or Phoenix, You're Not Beating LA
In-Reply-To: <ceb.6ff1fc5e.387a91c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100109214950.TRFUT.81750.imail@eastrmwml36>

Also, we took Cleveland away, the Spurs and the Magic.  None of those teams are slouches.  Home court advantage would be nice, but it was more essential last year than this year.  If we are healthy, we are the best  team in the NBA.  And, we still have the opportunity to pull off a trade by the deadline, having 3 expiring contracts (although I'd keep Ray Allen).
---- Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
> Squawks being blown out by Magic by 31 in 4th quarter,   I  wouldn't worry 
> much about them as Garnett would have been the difference last  night.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/9/2010 11:55:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> davep4660 at cox.net writes:
> 
> Tell you  what.  If Garnett makes it back, stop your insane posts.  If he  
> doesn't, I'll stop mine.  Fair enough? Byt the way, Ray, his knee didn't  
> look so shot when he was playing this season.  It's just a minor set  back.  
> I'd worry more about the Lakers and their fragility.
> ---- Way  Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > Too old, slow, and  injury prone to win the Title this season.
> > "But, but, but," the  Celtics fan bots cry out, "We didn't have KG!"
> > A common occurrence the  last two seasons, and a future trend too. His 
> knee is shot.
> > 
> >  But, there is hope, if Jesus relocates to Oz.
> > 
> > Somewhere, over  the rainbow, skies are blue.
> > And the dreams that you dare to  dream
> > Really do come true.
> > 
> > Ray
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> >  _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> >  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 10 17:48:26 2010
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:48:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
Message-ID: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Say, it ain't so.

So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. for Bosh.

Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.

No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.

Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers. 

Here's what the Celtics should do:

Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.

Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have 
slowed to a crawl these days.

Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good young
SG like CJ Miles.

Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.

Ray


      


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 18:35:51 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:35:51 +0100
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com>

The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
Lakers don't make it past Denver.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Say, it ain't so.
>
> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. for Bosh.
>
> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>
> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>
> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>
> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>
> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>
> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
> slowed to a crawl these days.
>
> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good young
> SG like CJ Miles.
>
> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From jaims at pldtdsl.net  Sun Jan 10 21:33:08 2010
From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:33:08 +0800
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
	<56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>

i agree.  if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside  
(as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad  
move by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a  
scout or gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to  
them... :D

go celtics!!!

Jaims

On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray  
> <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Say, it ain't so.
>>
>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.  
>> for Bosh.
>>
>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>>
>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>>
>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>>
>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>>
>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>>
>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
>> slowed to a crawl these days.
>>
>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good  
>> young
>> SG like CJ Miles.
>>
>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Sun Jan 10 22:29:59 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:29:59 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>
Message-ID: <8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>

I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the 
rumored trade:

Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics

2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)

3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play 
interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and 
ball handler

4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more 
useful inside than KG

5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior 
force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the 
Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh) 
who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too - 
Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time. 
Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the 
starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh, 
.5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)

So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes 
for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your 
countermove.

Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago 
when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and 
how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This 
year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. 
Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?




-----Original Message-----
From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade


i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside 
(as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move 
by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or 
gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D?
?
go celtics!!!?
?
Jaims?
?
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:?
?
> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us?
> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the?
> Lakers don't make it past Denver.?
>?
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray > 
<wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:?
>> Say, it ain't so.?
>>?
>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. 
>> for Bosh.?
>>?
>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.?
>>?
>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.?
>>?
>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.?
>>?
>> Here's what the Celtics should do:?
>>?
>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.?
>>?
>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have?
>> slowed to a crawl these days.?
>>?
>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they?
>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good 
>> young?
>> SG like CJ Miles.?
>>?
>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's?
>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.?
>>?
>> Ray?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 01:48:56 2010
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <786462.30560.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

IMHO as a Celts fan I would like the Fakers losing Bynum and gaining Bosh. Bosh would give the Lakers two top notch, mobile, scoring but fairly soft bigs. Bynum when healthy does the dirty work you need one of your bigs to do. The Fakers really do not, at present, need Bosh's scoring. As talented as he is I do not think he is that great of a fit when factoring the Fakers would have to give up their only true center to get him.

All this doom and gloom about any potential Lakers move is amusing to me, yes they are the media darlings and the conventional wisdom league's top dogs but really are they better than a healthy C's team? They are only 1 game up in the lost column while playing 8 more home games (more if you count the Clips). I do not see the Lakers as an un-beatable force (last ten games like the injured C's are 6-4). I would be more worried having to play an uber athletic team like the Hawks than the Lakers. 

The key will be a fairly healthy starting five along with a healthy 4 to 5 of Rasheed, House, TA, Davis and Quiz. Then again, for every NBA team that is a contender, health is always key to their chances. If the C's can ride out the next few weeks and stay within 1-3 games of the other leaders then you have to like the C's chances.? 

BTW I think a healthy Pierce, this year, is a clear advantage over Gasol (two different type players of course) but as far as a player that would be more important and better on both ends of floor during a playoff series you have to go with the truth.

Go C's

--- On Sun, 1/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 5:29 PM

I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the rumored trade:

Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics

2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)

3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and ball handler

4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more useful inside than KG

5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh) who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too - Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time. Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh, .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)

So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your countermove.

Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?




-----Original Message-----
From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade


i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D?
?
go celtics!!!?
?
Jaims?
?
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:?
?
> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us?
> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the?
> Lakers don't make it past Denver.?
> ?
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray > 
<wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:?
>> Say, it ain't so.?
>> ?
>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. for Bosh.?
>> ?
>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.?
>> ?
>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.?
>> ?
>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.?
>> ?
>> Here's what the Celtics should do:?
>> ?
>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.?
>> ?
>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have?
>> slowed to a crawl these days.?
>> ?
>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they?
>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good young?
>> SG like CJ Miles.?
>> ?
>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's?
>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.?
>> ?
>> Ray?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> ?
> ?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jan 11 02:06:56 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:06:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <786462.30560.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <786462.30560.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <696683.98173.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Could be too similiar?to Gasol & Odom. No inside big body. They wil have to use their athleticism and and perimeter game. Would e another gift to the lakers bailing them out of a bad contract for an overpaid big man




________________________________
From: R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 5:48:56 PM
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade

IMHO as a Celts fan I would like the Fakers losing Bynum and gaining Bosh. Bosh would give the Lakers two top notch, mobile, scoring but fairly soft bigs. Bynum when healthy does the dirty work you need one of your bigs to do. The Fakers really do not, at present, need Bosh's scoring. As talented as he is I do not think he is that great of a fit when factoring the Fakers would have to give up their only true center to get him.

All this doom and gloom about any potential Lakers move is amusing to me, yes they are the media darlings and the conventional wisdom league's top dogs but really are they better than a healthy C's team? They are only 1 game up in the lost column while playing 8 more home games (more if you count the Clips). I do not see the Lakers as an un-beatable force (last ten games like the injured C's are 6-4). I would be more worried having to play an uber athletic team like the Hawks than the Lakers. 

The key will be a fairly healthy starting five along with a healthy 4 to 5 of Rasheed, House, TA, Davis and Quiz. Then again, for every NBA team that is a contender, health is always key to their chances. If the C's can ride out the next few weeks and stay within 1-3 games of the other leaders then you have to like the C's chances.? 

BTW I think a healthy Pierce, this year, is a clear advantage over Gasol (two different type players of course) but as far as a player that would be more important and better on both ends of floor during a playoff series you have to go with the truth.

Go C's

--- On Sun, 1/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 5:29 PM

I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the rumored trade:

Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics

2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)

3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and ball handler

4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more useful inside than KG

5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh) who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too - Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time. Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh, .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)

So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your countermove.

Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?




-----Original Message-----
From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade


i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D?
?
go celtics!!!?
?
Jaims?
?
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:?
?
> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us?
> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the?
> Lakers don't make it past Denver.?
> ?
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray > 
<wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:?
>> Say, it ain't so.?
>> ?
>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. for Bosh.?
>> ?
>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.?
>> ?
>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.?
>> ?
>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.?
>> ?
>> Here's what the Celtics should do:?
>> ?
>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.?
>> ?
>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have?
>> slowed to a crawl these days.?
>> ?
>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they?
>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good young?
>> SG like CJ Miles.?
>> ?
>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's?
>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.?
>> ?
>> Ray?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> ?
> ?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From bosox18 at charter.net  Mon Jan 11 12:10:07 2010
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:10:07 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com><CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>
	<8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC>

I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.

I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
like they did in the Gasol trade ...

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of douglas342 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade

I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the 
rumored trade:

Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics

2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)

3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play 
interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and 
ball handler

4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more 
useful inside than KG

5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior 
force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the 
Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh) 
who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too - 
Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time. 
Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the 
starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh, 
.5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)

So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes 
for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your 
countermove.

Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago 
when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and 
how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This 
year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. 
Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?




-----Original Message-----
From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade


i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside 
(as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move 
by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or 
gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D?
?
go celtics!!!?
?
Jaims?
?
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:?
?
> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us?
> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the?
> Lakers don't make it past Denver.?
>?
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray > 
<wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:?
>> Say, it ain't so.?
>>?
>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al. 
>> for Bosh.?
>>?
>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.?
>>?
>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.?
>>?
>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.?
>>?
>> Here's what the Celtics should do:?
>>?
>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.?
>>?
>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have?
>> slowed to a crawl these days.?
>>?
>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they?
>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good 
>> young?
>> SG like CJ Miles.?
>>?
>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's?
>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.?
>>?
>> Ray?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 12:49:08 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08 +0100
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
	<56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com> 
	<CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>
	<8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> 
	<A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC>
Message-ID: <56a297001001110449y7b363cdbna79ca84f6e77efb9@mail.gmail.com>

Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player that
opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not backing
down is *the* most important part of having a successful team once you
have talent.

The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh and we get
squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were tougher than
they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was a huge
part of that.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
> I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
> it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
> better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
> attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
> player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.
>
> I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
> to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
> like they did in the Gasol trade ...
>
> Steve O
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
> I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the
> rumored trade:
>
> Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
>
> 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
>
> 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play
> interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and
> ball handler
>
> 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more
> useful inside than KG
>
> 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior
> force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the
> Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
> who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too -
> Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time.
> Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the
> starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh,
> .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
>
> So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes
> for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your
> countermove.
>
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
>
> i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside
> (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move
> by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or
> gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D
>
> go celtics!!!
>
> Jaims
>
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
>> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
>> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray >
> <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Say, it ain't so.
>>>
>>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.
>>> for Bosh.
>>>
>>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>>>
>>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>>>
>>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>>>
>>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>>>
>>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>>>
>>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
>>> slowed to a crawl these days.
>>>
>>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
>>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good
>>> young
>>> SG like CJ Miles.
>>>
>>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
>>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Jan 11 13:38:25 2010
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:38:25 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>

I was curious about you mentioning we were seeing more 3s from Rondo 
this year?so I looked up his career averages?and they surprised me both
good and bad.

In 34 games this season Rondo has sunk only six 3s for a?20% average.
It?s below even his career average of 25% and well?below expectations 
for starting NBA PGs.

He?s really improved in points, fg%, assists and steals but
his 3P shooting (20%), FT shooting (60%) and rebounds?
(4.2 pg) are all down this season. ?Plus his 3 turnovers pg are 
way up?from his lifetime 2.2 pg.

So he?s improved in some categories but?taken a step back 
in several others. ?Pretty much a swap off season. ?



On Jan 10, 2010, at 5:29:59 PM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago 
when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and 
how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This 
year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. 
Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%? 


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 13:51:03 2010
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:51:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: rosy future
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1263174554.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.18.1263174554.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <962114.87764.qm@web37405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

how can you not have a rosy outlook on the future with rondo and perk as cornerstones? sure, we're going to go thru a transition, but danny has three huge expiring contracts coming off in successive years to rebuild with. 


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:54:25 -0500
From: douglas342 at aol.com
Subject: fan philosophy
To: celtics at igtc.com
Message-ID: <8CC5F95D354BCA7-16D4-15D2D at webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Watching the Atlanta game and ruminating on the long life of this list, 
I wondered which season has been more fun for me as a fan: the ECF team 
in '01, where everything was looking up, the future was bright? Or this 
year's team, which could win it all, but whose longer-term outlook 
isn't as rosy? Would you rather be a fan up and up-and-coming midpack 
team? Or a declining elite team? Last year was a strange experience: I 
think most of us were very happy with the season, knowing that the 
championship went away with Garnett's knee, so losing to Orlando wasn't 
really a matter of whether we'd lose, but when.

Just mid-season reflections ...



      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jan 11 14:42:06 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:42:06 +0000
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <56a297001001110449y7b363cdbna79ca84f6e77efb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com><CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net><8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com><A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC><56a297001001110449y7b363cdbna79ca84f6e77efb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276426844-1263220925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1923147985-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

The question is would you move him  to get more athletic and offensive firepower and prepare for the inevitable and get another big inside body?  

Who would really have rondo and perk over bosh or  kaman (2 of 4 in the league avering 20/9) but as stated stays can be misleading depending on who you are playing with. 

Would you move perk for Randolph & turiaf or morrow or curry or azubuike? You have to start looking at the future. Chicago has major space post Jordan but couldn't sign anyone, except ron Mercer
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08 
To: <bosox18 at charter.net>; The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade

Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player that
opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not backing
down is *the* most important part of having a successful team once you
have talent.

The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh and we get
squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were tougher than
they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was a huge
part of that.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
> I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
> it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
> better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
> attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
> player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.
>
> I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
> to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
> like they did in the Gasol trade ...
>
> Steve O
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
> I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the
> rumored trade:
>
> Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
>
> 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
>
> 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play
> interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and
> ball handler
>
> 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more
> useful inside than KG
>
> 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior
> force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the
> Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
> who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too -
> Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time.
> Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the
> starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh,
> .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
>
> So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes
> for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your
> countermove.
>
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
>
> i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside
> (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move
> by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or
> gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D
>
> go celtics!!!
>
> Jaims
>
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
>> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
>> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray >
> <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Say, it ain't so.
>>>
>>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.
>>> for Bosh.
>>>
>>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>>>
>>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>>>
>>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>>>
>>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>>>
>>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>>>
>>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
>>> slowed to a crawl these days.
>>>
>>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
>>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good
>>> young
>>> SG like CJ Miles.
>>>
>>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
>>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From Eric at ericalbert.net  Mon Jan 11 15:26:06 2010
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:26:06 -0500
Subject: fan philosophy
Message-ID: <20100111152622.7DB3AE1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>


>douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>
>Watching the Atlanta game and ruminating on the long life of this list, I wondered which season has been more fun for me as a fan: the ECF team in '01, where everything was looking up, the future was bright? Or this year's team, which could win it all, but whose longer-term outlook isn't as rosy?

Oh, that's easy! Having watched every game of both teams, I'd vote for this year's group every time.

For me, it's not (mostly) a question of winning or losing. Actually, I'm surprised how much simple wins and losses matter to most fans. I was in Atlanta this past weekend to see the C's (and my brother). We also saw the Thrashers (hockey). The Thrashers were getting creamed by the opponent, so fans started leaving in the middle of the *second* period.

I don't get it. Do you like watching the game? Or do you just want the ego boost of having "your" team win?

What I love about this year's team is that they're fun to watch. They play together. They root for each other. They talk respectfully to the media. Their coach is warm, funny, and insightful -- a joy to listen to.

And they have Rondo. He's the most entertaining Celtic I've seen since Larry Bird. Win or lose, I just want to see what he does next. He's smart, tough, and creative. That flip-the-ball-backwards-while-lying-on-the-floor continuation "shot" last night: how often do you see that? I don't know which is less likely: that he thought to do it in the heat of the moment, or that he's practiced it before.

Only one team wins the championship each year. If that's the *only* thing that makes you happy, you're going to have a lot of miserable years. Why even follow a team? Go to the movies -- your percentage will be better.

Also, some teams are no fun to watch, even when they're winning. I wouldn't have wanted to be a Pistons fan. And I wouldn't enjoy watching Alan Iverson (any more than I enjoyed watching Antoine Walker, a less-talented player with the same me-first style).

I don't know if we'll win it all this year. If everyone was healthy, sure. But injuries are part of the game. Especially for contending teams -- youth doesn't win in the NBA, but age gets hurt all the time. As KG eloquently put it, you need a little luck in your back pocket.

Will we be lucky this year? Who knows. In the meantime, this team is a blast to watch.

-- Eric


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jan 11 15:30:18 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:30:18 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <276426844-1263220925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1923147985-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com><CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net><8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com><A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC><56a297001001110449y7b363cdbna79ca84f6e77efb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<276426844-1263220925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1923147985-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863@ares.afrc.af.mil>

If all you're in love with is "offensive" firepower you can be "Loyola-Marymount, the Hank Gathers years" sure. I continue to despise fantasy league thought processes used to judge actual GMs. There is more to a team than offense. Unless you're the current NFL under the "Peyton Rules"(Rule#1: thou shalt not touch a receiver or QB at any time); defense still means more in the post-season.  

Teams have an identity. It often takes a few months to establish said identity. If you are to actually look at the Lakers, they have moved away from simply outscoring opponents to defending them now as well (the Artest signing and Bynum healthy being the two biggest keys to that; Artest's presence allowing Kobe to simply "go for steals" and double off the weakest offensive player on the other team while Bynum hides Gasol's defensive flaws rather well). Would Bosh upset that balance? Against a "tougher" team I think it would. Bosh is not a great post defender. This would likely move the Lakers back to an "outscore everyone" mindset - which they would have significant ability to do, but there's a reason shooting percentages are what they are - the ball doesn't always go through the hoop.

Move Perk and we don't get through Orlando or Cleveland. Period. None of the other teams in the East can single Howard and Shaq without a second thought. The Celtics can. You build for the foes in your division and conference. What good is worrying about the Lakers if you can't get to them? Until the Hawks prove otherwise (and while close they're not there yet) - those foes are Cleveland and Orlando. 

The Celtics defensive advantages continue to be overlooked for "more offense". Fantasy league mindset run amok.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:42 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade

The question is would you move him  to get more athletic and offensive firepower and prepare for the inevitable and get another big inside body?  

Who would really have rondo and perk over bosh or  kaman (2 of 4 in the league avering 20/9) but as stated stays can be misleading depending on who you are playing with. 

Would you move perk for Randolph & turiaf or morrow or curry or azubuike? You have to start looking at the future. Chicago has major space post Jordan but couldn't sign anyone, except ron Mercer
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08 
To: <bosox18 at charter.net>; The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade

Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player that
opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not backing
down is *the* most important part of having a successful team once you
have talent.

The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh and we get
squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were tougher than
they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was a huge
part of that.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
> I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
> it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
> better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
> attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
> player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.
>
> I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
> to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
> like they did in the Gasol trade ...
>
> Steve O
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
> I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the
> rumored trade:
>
> Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
>
> 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
>
> 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play
> interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and
> ball handler
>
> 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more
> useful inside than KG
>
> 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior
> force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the
> Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
> who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too -
> Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time.
> Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the
> starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh,
> .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
>
> So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes
> for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your
> countermove.
>
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
>
> i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside
> (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move
> by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or
> gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D
>
> go celtics!!!
>
> Jaims
>
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
>> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
>> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray >
> <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Say, it ain't so.
>>>
>>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.
>>> for Bosh.
>>>
>>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>>>
>>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>>>
>>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>>>
>>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>>>
>>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>>>
>>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
>>> slowed to a crawl these days.
>>>
>>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
>>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good
>>> young
>>> SG like CJ Miles.
>>>
>>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
>>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Jan 11 15:30:36 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:30:36 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100111103036.DYT8H.227453.imail@eastrmwml28>

I think they said he's 19 out of his last 23 at the ft line.  That's big. especially down the stretch.
---- joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote: 
> I was curious about you mentioning we were seeing more 3s from Rondo 
> this year?so I looked up his career averages?and they surprised me both
> good and bad.
> 
> In 34 games this season Rondo has sunk only six 3s for a?20% average.
> It?s below even his career average of 25% and well?below expectations 
> for starting NBA PGs.
> 
> He?s really improved in points, fg%, assists and steals but
> his 3P shooting (20%), FT shooting (60%) and rebounds?
> (4.2 pg) are all down this season. ?Plus his 3 turnovers pg are 
> way up?from his lifetime 2.2 pg.
> 
> So he?s improved in some categories but?taken a step back 
> in several others. ?Pretty much a swap off season. ?
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2010, at 5:29:59 PM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago 
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and 
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This 
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. 
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Jan 11 15:35:08 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:35:08 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <276426844-1263220925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1923147985-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20100111103508.P0M5G.227538.imail@eastrmwml28>

I wouldn't, becasue Perk is an outstanding passer for a big man.  He has no outside game (which is good and bad) but patrols the paint quite well.  His efficiency in scoring is among the best (needs improvement on free throws), and he's one of the best offensive rebounders in the game.  And Perks is still years away from his peak as well.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> The question is would you move him  to get more athletic and offensive firepower and prepare for the inevitable and get another big inside body?  
> 
> Who would really have rondo and perk over bosh or  kaman (2 of 4 in the league avering 20/9) but as stated stays can be misleading depending on who you are playing with. 
> 
> Would you move perk for Randolph & turiaf or morrow or curry or azubuike? You have to start looking at the future. Chicago has major space post Jordan but couldn't sign anyone, except ron Mercer
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08 
> To: <bosox18 at charter.net>; The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> 
> Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player that
> opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not backing
> down is *the* most important part of having a successful team once you
> have talent.
> 
> The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh and we get
> squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were tougher than
> they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was a huge
> part of that.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
> > I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
> > it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
> > better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
> > attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
> > player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.
> >
> > I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
> > to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
> > like they did in the Gasol trade ...
> >
> > Steve O
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> > Of douglas342 at aol.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> >
> > I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the
> > rumored trade:
> >
> > Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
> >
> > 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
> >
> > 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play
> > interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and
> > ball handler
> >
> > 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more
> > useful inside than KG
> >
> > 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior
> > force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the
> > Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
> > who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too -
> > Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time.
> > Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the
> > starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh,
> > .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
> >
> > So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes
> > for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your
> > countermove.
> >
> > Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
> > when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
> > how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
> > year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
> > Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
> > Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> >
> >
> > i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside
> > (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move
> > by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or
> > gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D
> >
> > go celtics!!!
> >
> > Jaims
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
> >> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
> >> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray >
> > <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> Say, it ain't so.
> >>>
> >>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.
> >>> for Bosh.
> >>>
> >>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
> >>>
> >>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
> >>>
> >>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
> >>>
> >>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
> >>>
> >>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
> >>>
> >>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
> >>> slowed to a crawl these days.
> >>>
> >>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
> >>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good
> >>> young
> >>> SG like CJ Miles.
> >>>
> >>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
> >>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
> >>>
> >>> Ray
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >>> celtics at igtc.com
> >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 15:34:48 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:34:48 +0100
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <436178.70650.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
	<56a297001001101035v1e7936b0ka1f172d5c2014d21@mail.gmail.com> 
	<CA9DCA04-083C-4D6A-A7C8-3D4AF5A46F72@pldtdsl.net>
	<8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> 
	<A3906C9D8AB74E64A2A6E21A9401BBAF@StevePC>
	<56a297001001110449y7b363cdbna79ca84f6e77efb9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<276426844-1263220925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1923147985-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <56a297001001110734x1dc6730ck2b11b96993571d56@mail.gmail.com>

ding ding ding.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:30 PM,  <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> If all you're in love with is "offensive" firepower you can be "Loyola-Marymount, the Hank Gathers years" sure. I continue to despise fantasy league thought processes used to judge actual GMs. There is more to a team than offense. Unless you're the current NFL under the "Peyton Rules"(Rule#1: thou shalt not touch a receiver or QB at any time); defense still means more in the post-season.
>
> Teams have an identity. It often takes a few months to establish said identity. If you are to actually look at the Lakers, they have moved away from simply outscoring opponents to defending them now as well (the Artest signing and Bynum healthy being the two biggest keys to that; Artest's presence allowing Kobe to simply "go for steals" and double off the weakest offensive player on the other team while Bynum hides Gasol's defensive flaws rather well). Would Bosh upset that balance? Against a "tougher" team I think it would. Bosh is not a great post defender. This would likely move the Lakers back to an "outscore everyone" mindset - which they would have significant ability to do, but there's a reason shooting percentages are what they are - the ball doesn't always go through the hoop.
>
> Move Perk and we don't get through Orlando or Cleveland. Period. None of the other teams in the East can single Howard and Shaq without a second thought. The Celtics can. You build for the foes in your division and conference. What good is worrying about the Lakers if you can't get to them? Until the Hawks prove otherwise (and while close they're not there yet) - those foes are Cleveland and Orlando.
>
> The Celtics defensive advantages continue to be overlooked for "more offense". Fantasy league mindset run amok.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:42 AM
> To: Celtics
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
> The question is would you move him ?to get more athletic and offensive firepower and prepare for the inevitable and get another big inside body?
>
> Who would really have rondo and perk over bosh or ?kaman (2 of 4 in the league avering 20/9) but as stated stays can be misleading depending on who you are playing with.
>
> Would you move perk for Randolph & turiaf or morrow or curry or azubuike? You have to start looking at the future. Chicago has major space post Jordan but couldn't sign anyone, except ron Mercer
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08
> To: <bosox18 at charter.net>; The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>
> Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player that
> opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not backing
> down is *the* most important part of having a successful team once you
> have talent.
>
> The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh and we get
> squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were tougher than
> they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was a huge
> part of that.
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
>> I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I usually just ignore
>> it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the Lakers wouldn't be
>> better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't seem to get much
>> attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a certifiable star, twice the
>> player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of playing center.
>>
>> I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I hope at least they have
>> to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a second round pick,
>> like they did in the Gasol trade ...
>>
>> Steve O
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
>> Of douglas342 at aol.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
>> To: celtics at igtc.com
>> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>>
>> I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before and after the
>> rumored trade:
>>
>> Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
>>
>> 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
>>
>> 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because Gasol can play
>> interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a better shooter and
>> ball handler
>>
>> 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though Artest may be more
>> useful inside than KG
>>
>> 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him as interior
>> force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping Bynum, the
>> Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
>> who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys like that too -
>> Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play at the same time.
>> Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in matchups? In the
>> starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5 Artest, .5 Bosh,
>> .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
>>
>> So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for the rumor - makes
>> for interesting discussion. I will not, however, bother to discuss your
>> countermove.
>>
>> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
>> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
>> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
>> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
>> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
>> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
>>
>>
>> i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less tougher inside
>> (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than bynum). any bad move
>> by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray to be a scout or
>> gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league talent to them... :D
>>
>> go celtics!!!
>>
>> Jaims
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and beating us
>>> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading Bynum means the
>>> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray >
>> <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Say, it ain't so.
>>>>
>>>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers offering Bynum et al.
>>>> for Bosh.
>>>>
>>>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
>>>>
>>>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest quartet.
>>>>
>>>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
>>>>
>>>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh, Turkoglu, et al.
>>>>
>>>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center, since the two of them have
>>>> slowed to a crawl these days.
>>>>
>>>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to be creative, they
>>>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the deal and find a good
>>>> young
>>>> SG like CJ Miles.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh, it's over. He's
>>>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Jan 11 15:40:25 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:40:25 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20100111104025.DJVU5.227624.imail@eastrmwml28>

In other words, as Sheed says "Ball don't lie".

---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Would Bosh upset that balance? Against a "tougher" team I think it would. Bosh is not a great post defender. This would likely move the Lakers back to an "outscore everyone" mindset - which they would have significant ability to do, but there's a reason shooting percentages are what they are - the ball doesn't always go through the hoop.
> 
> 


From douglas342 at aol.com  Mon Jan 11 15:38:58 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:38:58 -0500
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC60EB5286C927-2E34-238DB@webmail-d016.sysops.aol.com>

Fair enough, as I didn't do any stat-checking.  It doesn't surprise me 
that his % is not up, but how about his attempts?  It just seems to me 
that he is taking (a few more of) those outside shots than he has in 
the past.  Like an NFL running game, all he really needs to do is make 
the other team guard him outside a little bit, leaving the middle more 
vulnerable.

-----Original Message-----
From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:38 am
Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade


I was curious about you mentioning we were seeing more 3s from Rondo
this year?so I looked up his career averages?and they surprised me both
good and bad.

In 34 games this season Rondo has sunk only six 3s for a?20% average.
It?s below even his career average of 25% and well?below expectations
for starting NBA PGs.

He?s really improved in points, fg%, assists and steals but
his 3P shooting (20%), FT shooting (60%) and rebounds?
(4.2 pg) are all down this season. ?Plus his 3 turnovers pg are
way up?from his lifetime 2.2 pg.

So he?s improved in some categories but?taken a step back
in several others. ?Pretty much a swap off season. ?



On Jan 10, 2010, at 5:29:59 PM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago
when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and
how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This
year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers.
Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

  


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 16:19:40 2010
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:19:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: perk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20.1263223841.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.20.1263223841.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <93182.7196.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

great point about perk. move him and we don't even get to the lakers. other than a backup point, the only think i think we're really missing is a young, long player, a la travis outlaw or gs's randolph, someone who can complement our davis/sheldon combo. 

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:30:18 -0500
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: RE: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
To: <jlyell at verizon.net>, <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863 at ares.afrc.af.mil>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

If all you're in love with is "offensive" firepower you can be "Loyola-Marymount, the Hank Gathers years" sure. I continue to despise fantasy league thought processes used to judge actual GMs. There is more to a team than offense. Unless you're the current NFL under the "Peyton Rules"(Rule#1: thou shalt not touch a receiver or QB at any time); defense still means more in the post-season.  

Teams have an identity. It often takes a few months to establish said identity. If you are to actually look at the Lakers, they have moved away from simply outscoring opponents to defending them now as well (the Artest signing and Bynum healthy being the two biggest keys to that; Artest's presence allowing Kobe to simply "go for steals" and double off the weakest offensive player on the other team while Bynum hides Gasol's defensive flaws rather well). Would Bosh upset that balance? Against a "tougher" team I think it would. Bosh is not a great post defender. This would likely move the Lakers back to an "outscore everyone" mindset - which they would have significant ability to do, but there's a reason shooting percentages are what they are - the ball doesn't always go through the hoop.

Move Perk and we don't get through Orlando or Cleveland. Period. None of the other teams in the East can single Howard and Shaq without a second thought. The Celtics can. You build for the foes in your division and conference. What good is worrying about the Lakers if you can't get to them? Until the Hawks prove otherwise (and while close they're not there yet) - those foes are Cleveland and Orlando. 

The Celtics defensive advantages continue to be overlooked for "more offense". Fantasy league mindset run amok.



      


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 11 16:23:41 2010
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:23:41 -0400
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>
References: <8CC605B93EEDE57-5510-1792D@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>,
	<3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY128-W40ADDB91DF8C35BD8036FD96D0@phx.gbl>


I can't really see any digression in Rondo's play.  He's been outstanding IMHO.  He can penetrate whenever he chooses, has improving court vision, plays good defense and rebounds well for a point.  His free throw percentage is much better over the past few weeks since working with Mark Price.  His turnovers may be a bit higher because he is secure enough now to try a difficult pass without fear of being yanked.

 

What more are we looking for him to provide?

 

Cecil (will suck if he doesn't make the all-star team)

 


 
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:38:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> From: joefan11111 at aol.com
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> I was curious about you mentioning we were seeing more 3s from Rondo 
> this year so I looked up his career averages and they surprised me both
> good and bad.
> 
> In 34 games this season Rondo has sunk only six 3s for a 20% average.
> It?s below even his career average of 25% and well below expectations 
> for starting NBA PGs.
> 
> He?s really improved in points, fg%, assists and steals but
> his 3P shooting (20%), FT shooting (60%) and rebounds 
> (4.2 pg) are all down this season.  Plus his 3 turnovers pg are 
> way up from his lifetime 2.2 pg.
> 
> So he?s improved in some categories but taken a step back 
> in several others.  Pretty much a swap off season.  
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2010, at 5:29:59 PM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember may years ago 
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of players, and 
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every year. This 
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15 footers. 
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Mon Jan 11 18:06:19 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:06:19 -0500
Subject: Sean Williams
Message-ID: <075a01ca92e8$c68121e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I would love to see us take a chance on Williams.  Yes he has issues, but he
is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out against the Hawks type
teams.  He has tons of talent if he could just get his head on right.  Maybe
a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out.  Sign him for the rest of the
year, low risk, high reward!!  Troy
 
As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room for Monday's
2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.

 
 

From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jan 11 19:53:12 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:53:12 +0000
Subject: Sean Williams
Message-ID: <2107605739-1263239591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1447224669-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Iwould take him over scal & giddens for the reason mentioned . I would also try to get Anthony Randolph, morrow or azubuike for baby. I am satisfied with Sheldon as the power 4.
------Original Message------
From: TroySusieBrady
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Sean Williams
Sent: Jan 11, 2010 10:06 AM

I would love to see us take a chance on Williams.  Yes he has issues, but he
is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out against the Hawks type
teams.  He has tons of talent if he could just get his head on right.  Maybe
a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out.  Sign him for the rest of the
year, low risk, high reward!!  Troy
 
As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room for Monday's
2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.

 
 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 20:33:16 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:33:16 +0100
Subject: Sean Williams
In-Reply-To: <2107605739-1263239591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1447224669-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <2107605739-1263239591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1447224669-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <56a297001001111233s210198a3mc2906ea848eca461@mail.gmail.com>

No. Sean Williams is an NBA reject because he refuses to learn the
plays and do any work. He's the anti-Scal.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:53 PM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> Iwould take him over scal & giddens for the reason mentioned . I would also try to get Anthony Randolph, morrow or azubuike for baby. I am satisfied with Sheldon as the power 4.
> ------Original Message------
> From: TroySusieBrady
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Sean Williams
> Sent: Jan 11, 2010 10:06 AM
>
> I would love to see us take a chance on Williams. ?Yes he has issues, but he
> is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out against the Hawks type
> teams. ?He has tons of talent if he could just get his head on right. ?Maybe
> a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out. ?Sign him for the rest of the
> year, low risk, high reward!! ?Troy
>
> As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room for Monday's
> 2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From joshr at shaw.ca  Mon Jan 11 21:36:50 2010
From: joshr at shaw.ca (Josh Rice)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:36:50 -0800
Subject: KP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1263242046.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.25.1263242046.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <006401ca9306$2f30e1e0$8d92a5a0$@ca>

Speaking of Perk...Hubie Brown talked about him at length during the Hawks
broadcast. In Hubie's opinion (and he is as good a basketball mind as we
have in the league) Perk is the BEST low post defender in the game, and
should be first-team all-nba defense. I don't watch enough games to have an
opinion on this, but I love watching the kid play. He is already
indispensible. If he continues to pick up McHalian post moves he will be an
all-star. 

Nothing illustrates the brilliance of Danny Ainge more than watching Perk
and Rondo become the backbone of the team. Scorers can always be replaced,
winners are much harder. IMO Perk and Rondo are the only untouchables on the
team, and they are the primary reason we are heading for #19...oops, getting
ahead of myself.

joshr    


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 23:04:48 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:04:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sean Williams
In-Reply-To: <075a01ca92e8$c68121e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <864619.6715.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Doc WOULD NEVER EVER EVER play Williams...this year or next.

If we pick up anyone, it'll be an established veteran, a Tracy McGrady type....

Ryan

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:

> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> Subject: Sean Williams
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 12:06 PM
> I would love to see us take a chance
> on Williams.? Yes he has issues, but he
> is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out
> against the Hawks type
> teams.? He has tons of talent if he could just get his
> head on right.? Maybe
> a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out.? Sign him
> for the rest of the
> year, low risk, high reward!!? Troy
>  
> As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room
> for Monday's
> 2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.
> 
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 23:09:41 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:09:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <201001111530.o0BFUMiX019863@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <88841.40936.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I think Bosh is mentally soft and at best the #2 player on a championship team.  He has not the balls to take over a game when it's winning time.  

That said, he can play lock-down defense if he doesn't have to carry such a big burden on the offensive end.  Anybody remember the Olympics?  Bosh was the best bigman defender on that team.  That was international ball, but it showed what he could do if he only had to focus on defense.

Bosh to the Lakers would be interesting, but it wouldn't make them any better or worse--just different.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> To: jlyell at verizon.net, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 9:30 AM
> If all you're in love with is
> "offensive" firepower you can be "Loyola-Marymount, the Hank
> Gathers years" sure. I continue to despise fantasy league
> thought processes used to judge actual GMs. There is more to
> a team than offense. Unless you're the current NFL under the
> "Peyton Rules"(Rule#1: thou shalt not touch a receiver or QB
> at any time); defense still means more in the
> post-season.? 
> 
> Teams have an identity. It often takes a few months to
> establish said identity. If you are to actually look at the
> Lakers, they have moved away from simply outscoring
> opponents to defending them now as well (the Artest signing
> and Bynum healthy being the two biggest keys to that;
> Artest's presence allowing Kobe to simply "go for steals"
> and double off the weakest offensive player on the other
> team while Bynum hides Gasol's defensive flaws rather well)..
> Would Bosh upset that balance? Against a "tougher" team I
> think it would. Bosh is not a great post defender. This
> would likely move the Lakers back to an "outscore everyone"
> mindset - which they would have significant ability to do,
> but there's a reason shooting percentages are what they are
> - the ball doesn't always go through the hoop.
> 
> Move Perk and we don't get through Orlando or Cleveland.
> Period. None of the other teams in the East can single
> Howard and Shaq without a second thought. The Celtics can.
> You build for the foes in your division and conference. What
> good is worrying about the Lakers if you can't get to them?
> Until the Hawks prove otherwise (and while close they're not
> there yet) - those foes are Cleveland and Orlando. 
> 
> The Celtics defensive advantages continue to be overlooked
> for "more offense". Fantasy league mindset run amok.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of John Lyell
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:42 AM
> To: Celtics
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing
> Bosh Trade
> 
> The question is would you move him? to get more
> athletic and offensive firepower and prepare for the
> inevitable and get another big inside body?? 
> 
> Who would really have rondo and perk over bosh or?
> kaman (2 of 4 in the league avering 20/9) but as stated
> stays can be misleading depending on who you are playing
> with. 
> 
> Would you move perk for Randolph & turiaf or morrow or
> curry or azubuike? You have to start looking at the future.
> Chicago has major space post Jordan but couldn't sign
> anyone, except ron Mercer
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:08 
> To: <bosox18 at charter.net>;
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing
> Bosh Trade
> 
> Perk is not a "certifiable star" but he's also the player
> that
> opposing teams hate the most. Being physical, mean and not
> backing
> down is *the* most important part of having a successful
> team once you
> have talent.
> 
> The NBA is not a fantasy league, you replace Perk with Bosh
> and we get
> squashed. We crushed the Lakers in '07 because we were
> tougher than
> they were. Christmas '08 the Lakers crushed *us*, Bynum was
> a huge
> part of that.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net>
> wrote:
> > I know people want to dismiss everything Ray says -- I
> usually just ignore
> > it myself -- but it's just crazy talk to suggest the
> Lakers wouldn't be
> > better with Chris Bosh than Andrew Bynum. Bosh doesn't
> seem to get much
> > attention because he's in Toronot, but he's a
> certifiable star, twice the
> > player of Bynum, and Gasol is perfectly capable of
> playing center.
> >
> > I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does I
> hope at least they have
> > to give up more than Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic and a
> second round pick,
> > like they did in the Gasol trade ...
> >
> > Steve O
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of douglas342 at aol.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:30 PM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers
> Discussing Bosh Trade
> >
> > I'm not sure on this one. Let's match them up, before
> and after the
> > rumored trade:
> >
> > Point: Rondo v Fisher - advantage Celtics
> >
> > 2 guard: Ray v Bryant- advantage Lakers (sorry, Ray)
> >
> > 3: Pierce v Gasol? slight advantage Lakers, because
> Gasol can play
> > interior when and if he has to, although Pierce is a
> better shooter and
> > ball handler
> >
> > 4: Garnett v Artest? Advantage Celtics, even though
> Artest may be more
> > useful inside than KG
> >
> > 5: Perkins v Bosh: here's the tough call. Perk has him
> as interior
> > force, but Bosh can go outside much better. By dumping
> Bynum, the
> > Lakers lose a "true center," but have 3 players
> (Artest, Gasol, Bosh)
> > who can go low when and if necessary. The Cs have guys
> like that too -
> > Garnett, Davis and Wallace - but rarely do they play
> at the same time.
> > Would such a trade add up to more minutes for Davis in
> matchups? In the
> > starting lineup, then, the Lakers have 1.5 centers (.5
> Artest, .5 Bosh,
> > .5 Gasol) as do the Celtics (.5 Garnett, 1 Perkins.)
> >
> > So as much as I hate to engage with WRay, thanks for
> the rumor - makes
> > for interesting discussion. I will not, however,
> bother to discuss your
> > countermove.
> >
> > Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I
> remember may years ago
> > when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the
> growth of players, and
> > how the great ones improve some area of their game
> every year. This
> > year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more
> 12-15 footers.
> > Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to
> 65%?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 1:33 pm
> > Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers
> Discussing Bosh Trade
> >
> >
> > i agree. if ever, good for us then coz they'll be less
> tougher inside
> > (as rupaul is much less of a defensive threat than
> bynum). any bad move
> > by the lakers is good for the celts! i endorse wayray
> to be a scout or
> > gm of d lakers! he should bring his fantasy league
> talent to them... :D
> >
> > go celtics!!!
> >
> > Jaims
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The Lakers beat us last season by punking us and
> beating us
> >> physically, Bynum was a huge part of that. Trading
> Bynum means the
> >> Lakers don't make it past Denver.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Way Of The Ray
> >
> > <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Say, it ain't so.
> >>>
> >>> So, apparently there are rumors of the Lakers
> offering Bynum et al.
> >>> for Bosh.
> >>>
> >>> Bad, very bad, indeed if it happens.
> >>>
> >>> No one's touching a Gasol, Bosh, Kobe, Artest
> quartet.
> >>>
> >>> Slam Dunk Championship time for the Lakers.
> >>>
> >>> Here's what the Celtics should do:
> >>>
> >>> Offer Perkins, Ray and expirings for Bosh,
> Turkoglu, et al.
> >>>
> >>> Use Wallace and KG exclusively at center,
> since the two of them have
> >>> slowed to a crawl these days.
> >>>
> >>> Move Pierce to SG, although if Ainge wanted to
> be creative, they
> >>> could bring in a third or fourth team into the
> deal and find a good
> >>> young
> >>> SG like CJ Miles.
> >>>
> >>> Whatever the case, if the Lakers acquire Bosh,
> it's over. He's
> >>> perfect for them and will blossom like Gasol.
> >>>
> >>> Ray
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >>> celtics at igtc.com
> >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc..com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 23:13:28 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: fan philosophy
In-Reply-To: <20100111152622.7DB3AE1C0BE@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <352405.86770.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>



--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:
> And they have Rondo. He's the most entertaining Celtic I've
> seen since Larry Bird. Win or lose, I just want to see what
> he does next. He's smart, tough, and creative. That
> flip-the-ball-backwards-while-lying-on-the-floor
> continuation "shot" last night: how often do you see that? I
> don't know which is less likely: that he thought to do it in
> the heat of the moment, or that he's practiced it before.

Eric, the best part of that play is that Rondo recognized that there was only 1 second on the shot clock by sighting the shot clock AT THE OTHER END OF THE COURT.  He basically grabbed the ball, looked up for a split second at the other end of the court, noticed he had to shoot it or it'd be a violation, got pushed and fouled, and then let it go.  Pretty sure you can't practice that--it was all time and situation.

Ryan


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 23:21:47 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:21:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
In-Reply-To: <3BB8B29D.6FAE.4B89.A304.3E2563261E86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <454831.90968.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Joe, Rondo's only attempted 30 3s all season.  That's a pretty small sample size from which to make any real conclusions.  When Rondo starts taking more 3s, he'll start hitting them at a better percentage.  Right now, he only takes 3s at the end of the shot clock or the end of quarters--pretty low percentage.  Add to that the small overall sample, and you're making a mountain of a molehill.

Rondo's improved his jumpshooting and his per36 #s are up in pretty much every category, except rebounding.  Throw out the first month of the season, and his FT % has improved as well.  His turnovers?  Pretty much the same per36 minute rate as last season (2.8 per 36 in 09' and 2.9 per 36 in '10).  Rondo's taken another giant step forward in his progression, which is exactly why he's a shoe-in for the All-Star game.  

Hardly a 'swap offseason'--he's done everything he's been asked to do...and more.

Ryan 

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol..com> wrote:

> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: The Stuff Of Nightmares: Lakers Discussing Bosh Trade
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:38 AM
> I was curious about you mentioning we
> were seeing more 3s from Rondo 
> this year?so I looked up his career averages?and they
> surprised me both
> good and bad.
> 
> In 34 games this season Rondo has sunk only six 3s for
> a?20% average.
> It?s below even his career average of 25% and well?below
> expectations 
> for starting NBA PGs.
> 
> He?s really improved in points, fg%, assists and steals
> but
> his 3P shooting (20%), FT shooting (60%) and rebounds?
> (4.2 pg) are all down this season. ?Plus his 3 turnovers
> pg are 
> way up?from his lifetime 2.2 pg.
> 
> So he?s improved in some categories but?taken a step back
> 
> in several others. ?Pretty much a swap off season. ?
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2010, at 5:29:59 PM, douglas342 at aol.com
> wrote:
> Rondo is becoming a pretty decent player, huh? I remember
> may years ago 
> when someone (Josh?) posted an article about the growth of
> players, and 
> how the great ones improve some area of their game every
> year. This 
> year we're seeing 3s from Rondo, in addition to more 12-15
> footers. 
> Next year, Rajon, how about them FTs? Bring it to 65%? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Jan 11 23:43:43 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:43:43 -0500
Subject: KP
In-Reply-To: <006401ca9306$2f30e1e0$8d92a5a0$@ca>
Message-ID: <20100111184343.YFCRN.236152.imail@eastrmwml28>

Well I'll agree on both accounts.  One, is that Perkins and Rondo are franchise players.  You are correct in saying that you can replace scorers.  Rondo and Perk have played well inspite of Pierce and/or Garnett's absence.  They are excellent players and definite cornerstones of a franchise.  And I do agree on the brilliance of Danny Ainge, as he landed wo of the big ones, and they are still very young by NBA standards.  Over the next three years, they will add a big name or two to compliment them, and we'll see them remain among the elite for some time.
---- Josh Rice <joshr at shaw.ca> wrote: 
> Speaking of Perk...Hubie Brown talked about him at length during the Hawks
> broadcast. In Hubie's opinion (and he is as good a basketball mind as we
> have in the league) Perk is the BEST low post defender in the game, and
> should be first-team all-nba defense. I don't watch enough games to have an
> opinion on this, but I love watching the kid play. He is already
> indispensible. If he continues to pick up McHalian post moves he will be an
> all-star. 
> 
> Nothing illustrates the brilliance of Danny Ainge more than watching Perk
> and Rondo become the backbone of the team. Scorers can always be replaced,
> winners are much harder. IMO Perk and Rondo are the only untouchables on the
> team, and they are the primary reason we are heading for #19...oops, getting
> ahead of myself.
> 
> joshr    
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 12 03:07:58 2010
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:07:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: On the bright side
Message-ID: <412995.98502.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching position.  Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?

Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked into Bennett Salvatore's brain.  Cs deserved better tonight - valiant effort.

Michael Gooen


      


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Tue Jan 12 03:38:49 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:38:49 -0500
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <412995.98502.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <412995.98502.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <079b01ca9338$c101e920$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Michael, I thought the same thing.  Not sure who I am madder at the
officials or Thibs.  I think Thibs.  Last 6 minutes we flat ran out of gas,
no energy, no movement, no nothing.  I actually thought the Baby foul was
correct considering the sissy NBA that is now today's NBA.  I have seen much
worse but any type of hard foul to the head is almost always a flagrant now
days, don't agree with it, but it pretty much an automatic call.  Doc
getting that upset, that quick, I didn't understand considering all the
other bad officiated games we had seen and Doc usually stands there and
takes it.  I know we were down 2 bigs and Daniels, but I think this game
also proves without a doubt had BADLY we need another athletic, energetic
player whether he is 6-7 or 6-11 and how little or NO confidence the coaches
have with the rest of the bench.  I still say, go get Sean Williams on a
short contract.  On a good, veteran team, he might get his act together, if
not, send him packing but his athleticism and energy would be great on this
team.  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Gooen
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:08 PM
To: Celtics List
Subject: On the bright side

I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching
position.  Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?

Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating
malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked
into Bennett Salvatore's brain.  Cs deserved better tonight - valiant
effort.

Michael Gooen




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 12 12:43:20 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <412995.98502.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <318621.75730.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

missed the game - why is Tony back in the single digit minutes?
Even if we are "healthy" going into April, what the heck kind of gas are Pierce and Ray Allen going to have averaging 42 MPG??
Is Danny planning to bring in TMac or something? ?What other veteran wing will be avail. - it has to be somebody Doc would actually PLAY.
Ellie

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
Subject: On the bright side
To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:07 PM

I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching position.? Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?

Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked into Bennett Salvatore's brain.? Cs deserved better tonight - valiant effort.

Michael Gooen


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 12 13:14:50 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:14:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <079b01ca9338$c101e920$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <214708.45503.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

The problem is that Baby didn't pull him down by the head.  That's a flagrant, and which is exactly why Horford got called for one earlier in the game, when he basically tried to pry Perk's face off.  

Baby's hand did momentarily catch Williams' face, but that was mainly because Williams jumped into Baby and initiated contact.  He was already falling down when Baby's hand made contact with his neck.  There was no follow through or pulling down motion, things which should result in a flagrant.

But your point is still well taken--at this point, officials are broadly interpreting what constitutes a flagrant, and doing it to the detriment of the game.  Doc's reaction, in part, stemmed from the fact that Atlanta wasn't called for a flagrant in a similar instance in Friday's game.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:

> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> Subject: RE: On the bright side
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 9:38 PM
> Michael, I thought the same
> thing.? Not sure who I am madder at the
> officials or Thibs.? I think Thibs.? Last 6
> minutes we flat ran out of gas,
> no energy, no movement, no nothing..? I actually
> thought the Baby foul was
> correct considering the sissy NBA that is now today's
> NBA.? I have seen much
> worse but any type of hard foul to the head is almost
> always a flagrant now
> days, don't agree with it, but it pretty much an automatic
> call.? Doc
> getting that upset, that quick, I didn't understand
> considering all the
> other bad officiated games we had seen and Doc usually
> stands there and
> takes it.? I know we were down 2 bigs and Daniels, but
> I think this game
> also proves without a doubt had BADLY we need another
> athletic, energetic
> player whether he is 6-7 or 6-11 and how little or NO
> confidence the coaches
> have with the rest of the bench.? I still say, go get
> Sean Williams on a
> short contract.? On a good, veteran team, he might get
> his act together, if
> not, send him packing but his athleticism and energy would
> be great on this
> team.? Troy
>


      


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 12 20:31:55 2010
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:31:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <318621.75730.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <190356.79779.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

This is the problem I have with Doc, I just knew, horrible officiating aside, that Doc's reluctance to use his bench was going to eventually lead to the Hawks overtaking the C's in the 3-4th quarter and may eventually ruin whatever precious chance this team has come playoff time.?
His open lack of faith in his bench folks that are not Scals, Rasheed and House is so plain that whenever a Davis, Giddens or Walker may get a rare minute or two they are not playing naturally rather worrying about any mistake they may make, thus fulfilling his and their perceptions that they cannot be counted on or belong on the floor. Like it or not his athletic but relegated end of bench player's talents are needed to be counted on for teams like the Hawks. Yes when healthy Doc will have a Quiz, TA, KG, Rasheed to shorten mins but when you dont have those players and dont play the end of bench players to boot then the message to them has been delivered loud and clear, we would rather lose than play ya. Our remaining vet starters will be gassed before the all-star break never mind the playoffs.
I am not saying our end of bench players will be all-stars or even starters someday but they are NBA players that should be able to bring something when called upon, not just be practice fodder, if so cut the 3-4 players you never play and go hire 35-45 year old, washed up players for practice players and save some money.... GRRRR!
I am ok now I am taking deep breaths.
Go Cs?

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: On the bright side
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 7:43 AM

missed the game - why is Tony back in the single digit minutes?
Even if we are "healthy" going into April, what the heck kind of gas are Pierce and Ray Allen going to have averaging 42 MPG??
Is Danny planning to bring in TMac or something? ?What other veteran wing will be avail. - it has to be somebody Doc would actually PLAY.
Ellie

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
Subject: On the bright side
To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:07 PM

I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching position.? Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?

Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked into Bennett Salvatore's brain.? Cs deserved better tonight - valiant effort.

Michael Gooen


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Jan 12 20:37:28 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:37:28 -0500
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <190356.79779.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <318621.75730.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<190356.79779.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201001122037.o0CKbUtA005592@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

Uh huh.

That about sums it up. I love Doc - he has been a good coach for this team. He and Thibedeau are a great combo of fuzzy and analytical to balance each other, and I do admit his X and Os are not the best - except in bound plays - thems pretty good. But I too am BAFFLED by his not reluctance - refusal to play youngins and then moan about minutes. Hello - mirror Doc - look in the mirror man!!!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of R Howe
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:32 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: On the bright side

This is the problem I have with Doc, I just knew, horrible officiating aside, that Doc's reluctance to use his bench was going to eventually lead to the Hawks overtaking the C's in the 3-4th quarter and may eventually ruin whatever precious chance this team has come playoff time.?
His open lack of faith in his bench folks that are not Scals, Rasheed and House is so plain that whenever a Davis, Giddens or Walker may get a rare minute or two they are not playing naturally rather worrying about any mistake they may make, thus fulfilling his and their perceptions that they cannot be counted on or belong on the floor. Like it or not his athletic but relegated end of bench player's talents are needed to be counted on for teams like the Hawks. Yes when healthy Doc will have a Quiz, TA, KG, Rasheed to shorten mins but when you dont have those players and dont play the end of bench players to boot then the message to them has been delivered loud and clear, we would rather lose than play ya. Our remaining vet starters will be gassed before the all-star break never mind the playoffs.
I am not saying our end of bench players will be all-stars or even starters someday but they are NBA players that should be able to bring something when called upon, not just be practice fodder, if so cut the 3-4 players you never play and go hire 35-45 year old, washed up players for practice players and save some money.... GRRRR!
I am ok now I am taking deep breaths.
Go Cs?

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: On the bright side
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 7:43 AM

missed the game - why is Tony back in the single digit minutes?
Even if we are "healthy" going into April, what the heck kind of gas are Pierce and Ray Allen going to have averaging 42 MPG??
Is Danny planning to bring in TMac or something? ?What other veteran wing will be avail. - it has to be somebody Doc would actually PLAY.
Ellie

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
Subject: On the bright side
To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:07 PM

I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching position.? Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?

Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked into Bennett Salvatore's brain.? Cs deserved better tonight - valiant effort.

Michael Gooen


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Tue Jan 12 21:43:17 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:43:17 -0500
Subject: On the bright side
In-Reply-To: <201001122037.o0CKbUtA005592@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20100112164317.8FM9Z.533127.imail@eastrmwml48>

Thibideau should take more blame for last night, as he frogot about Tony Allen and Scal, who (Scal) ignited the team to a start and almost closed out this game in the first quarter.  I don't think he subbed once since taking over the reins.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Uh huh.
> 
> That about sums it up. I love Doc - he has been a good coach for this team. He and Thibedeau are a great combo of fuzzy and analytical to balance each other, and I do admit his X and Os are not the best - except in bound plays - thems pretty good. But I too am BAFFLED by his not reluctance - refusal to play youngins and then moan about minutes. Hello - mirror Doc - look in the mirror man!!!!!!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of R Howe
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:32 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: On the bright side
> 
> This is the problem I have with Doc, I just knew, horrible officiating aside, that Doc's reluctance to use his bench was going to eventually lead to the Hawks overtaking the C's in the 3-4th quarter and may eventually ruin whatever precious chance this team has come playoff time.?
> His open lack of faith in his bench folks that are not Scals, Rasheed and House is so plain that whenever a Davis, Giddens or Walker may get a rare minute or two they are not playing naturally rather worrying about any mistake they may make, thus fulfilling his and their perceptions that they cannot be counted on or belong on the floor. Like it or not his athletic but relegated end of bench player's talents are needed to be counted on for teams like the Hawks. Yes when healthy Doc will have a Quiz, TA, KG, Rasheed to shorten mins but when you dont have those players and dont play the end of bench players to boot then the message to them has been delivered loud and clear, we would rather lose than play ya. Our remaining vet starters will be gassed before the all-star break never mind the playoffs.
> I am not saying our end of bench players will be all-stars or even starters someday but they are NBA players that should be able to bring something when called upon, not just be practice fodder, if so cut the 3-4 players you never play and go hire 35-45 year old, washed up players for practice players and save some money.... GRRRR!
> I am ok now I am taking deep breaths.
> Go Cs?
> 
> --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: On the bright side
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 7:43 AM
> 
> missed the game - why is Tony back in the single digit minutes?
> Even if we are "healthy" going into April, what the heck kind of gas are Pierce and Ray Allen going to have averaging 42 MPG??
> Is Danny planning to bring in TMac or something? ?What other veteran wing will be avail. - it has to be somebody Doc would actually PLAY.
> Ellie
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
> Subject: On the bright side
> To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:07 PM
> 
> I don't think the Cs have to worry about losing Thibs to a head coaching position.? Does he know that it's OK to substitute and call timeouts?
> 
> Not sure whether this one's on coaching malpractice or officiating malpractice - all I know for sure is that the Grecian Formula has leaked into Bennett Salvatore's brain.? Cs deserved better tonight - valiant effort.
> 
> Michael Gooen
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 13 02:13:08 2010
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:13:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I Am Sensing A Ray Allen Trade
Message-ID: <729682.42512.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Off to see the Wizards?

A Bynum in return?

But who knows what trades lurk in the hearts of evil men Wyc and Ainge?

Ray


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jan 13 02:31:39 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:31:39 +0000
Subject: I Am Sensing A Ray Allen Trade
Message-ID: <403142249-1263349897-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-84107083-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Is Ernest brown in the rumored deal?
------Original Message------
From: Way Of The Ray
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
To: Celtics Stuff
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: I Am Sensing A Ray Allen Trade
Sent: Jan 12, 2010 6:13 PM

Off to see the Wizards?

A Bynum in return?

But who knows what trades lurk in the hearts of evil men Wyc and Ainge?

Ray


      

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The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
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Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Wed Jan 13 15:56:22 2010
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:56:22 -0500
Subject: Will the Celtics get better?
Message-ID: <AE32A30B.5E26.4340.89A0.F87779743624@aol.com>

I was so convinced the Celts would kill Atlanta the other night that 
I put $100?smackers on ?the Celts giving up 4 1/2 points. We started 
out great?but Thibadeau?stunk with his subsitutions, Big Baby was horrible 
and Perk and?Rondo continued to create turnovers. Blahhh. 
Now Garnett's return?has been postponed for another 10-14 days and 
Wallace has some?sort of foot problem. ? No wonder fans?want to bypass?
this season and?just look forward to Rondo and?Perk as allstar leaders
in our future.

Thought this Forsberg column was interesting. 


WILL THE CELTICS GET BETTER?
Spate of injuries could be bad luck -- or a bad sign for future
By Chris Forsberg,?ESPNBoston.com

Most athletes are creatures of habit and stick to pregame routines. For Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers and forward Rasheed Wallace, those routines typically intersect when Wallace returns to the locker room following his on-court warm-up at the same time Rivers wraps up his pregame briefing with the media.

Wallace even uses the same cheap-laugh joke, typically chastising Rivers for clogging up the hallway outside the locker room and causing a fire hazard. Wallace loves to tell Rivers he's going to call the fire marshal.

When Wallace didn't stroll by before Monday night's game with the Atlanta Hawks, it was a clue that something was amiss. Ironically, Rivers had just told the media how proud he's been of his team and coaching staff for overcoming all the adversity they have faced -- particularly the troubles that often have cropped up minutes before tipoff.

A short time after Rivers wrapped up his Q&A session, Wallace returned to the locker room and told his coach that he couldn't play against the Hawks, becoming the latest member of Gang Green, an ailing group of Celtics that this month has included Kevin Garnett (hyperextended right knee), Rajon Rondo (sore left hamstring), Paul Pierce (right knee infection), Tony Allen (illness), Glen Davis (sprained right ankle, thumb surgery), Kendrick Perkins (food poisoning) and Eddie House (illness). Additionally, Marquis Daniels remains sidelined after undergoing thumb surgery last month.

"I'm just happy with the way we're competing," Rivers said before finding out about Wallace, who is expected to miss as much as a week with an injury to his forefoot, which prevents him from properly pushing off while jumping.

"We've had a lot of things thrown at us here in a short stretch -- injuries, illnesses -- and the fact that they're coming five minutes before gametime. Things like that are far more difficult for our staff and players."

While Rivers has stressed to his team that injuries are not to be used as a crutch, it's clear the Celtics take a great deal of pride in remaining competitive without all of their horses.

Asked following Monday's loss if it bothered him that the Celtics had lost three games to the Hawks this season despite leading each game at halftime, Pierce voiced great confidence in his team.

"It's a concern," said Pierce, noting that Boston certainly doesn't want to give another team confidence, particularly one the Celtics might see again in the playoffs.

"But we still feel like we're a better team, [Atlanta] just got the best of us. The year we won the championship [in 2007-08], we lost four times to Washington. It definitely should bother us, but we're a better team, and it will show."

The Celtics are 26-10 nearing the midway point of the season. They're still on pace for around 60 wins. Sure, it's not the 72 victories that some had them pegged for after a blazing 20-4 start, but they're on track to be one of the top two seeds in the Eastern Conference (currently second behind the Cavaliers).

The real question is: Will the Celtics ever be free of the injury/illness bug? Is this a rash of bad luck that will fade before the postseason? Or, as many pundits openly wondered in the preseason, are the Celtics simply too old and fragile?

It's a concern that Wallace and the entire Big Three are all nicked up less than three months into the season. To be fair, Ray Allen's ailments are rather minor. His nose got grazed by a basketball Friday in Atlanta and the injury scabbed over, forcing him to wear a bandage on his nose in recent games.

That's certainly better than the knee ailments that have limited Pierce and Garnett, but it's another sign of just how ravaged this team is. No one's safe.

Beyond injury, there's reason to be legitimately concerned about whether the Celtics can compete with top competition. Their trio of losses against the Hawks highlights the fact that they have played one of the softer schedules in the NBA, sitting at 28th in strength of schedule Tuesday with their opponents' winning percentage at .473. The Celtics can take solace in the fact that other contenders, such as the Cavaliers, Spurs and Magic, have faced only marginally tougher foes to this point.

Of the Celtics' 10 losses, half have come against Atlanta and Phoenix. Take away a defeat against Orlando, and the others were letdowns against lackluster competition in Indiana (12-25), Philadelphia (12-25), the Clippers (17-18) and Golden State (11-25). The optimist sees a lack a motivation against lesser opponents. The pessimist sees a streaky team with problems at both ends of the competition spectrum.

The remainder of January will likely tell us a bit more about this team. The Celtics hope to be back near full strength in time for games in Orlando and Atlanta, and a home matchup with the Lakers near the end of the month.

Pierce did his best Monday to alleviate any fears about the team's recent struggles (3-5 in their last eight games). But nothing would make Celtics fans feel better than getting the team back together in one piece.


Chris Forsberg is a roving reporter for ESPNBoston.com.?Follow him on Twitter.

From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jan 13 20:08:21 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:08:21 +0000
Subject: Will the Celtics get better?
In-Reply-To: <AE32A30B.5E26.4340.89A0.F87779743624@aol.com>
References: <AE32A30B.5E26.4340.89A0.F87779743624@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1661494251-1263413303-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1680875396-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

is KG done? This sure feels like last year with the minimal info. 

Good to see the lakers losing. maybe this is the only way to keep minutes down with docs unwillingness to play younger players? 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:56:22 
To: igtc celtics board<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Will the Celtics get better?

I was so convinced the Celts would kill Atlanta the other night that 
I put $100?smackers on ?the Celts giving up 4 1/2 points. We started 
out great?but Thibadeau?stunk with his subsitutions, Big Baby was horrible 
and Perk and?Rondo continued to create turnovers. Blahhh. 
Now Garnett's return?has been postponed for another 10-14 days and 
Wallace has some?sort of foot problem. ? No wonder fans?want to bypass?
this season and?just look forward to Rondo and?Perk as allstar leaders
in our future.

Thought this Forsberg column was interesting. 


WILL THE CELTICS GET BETTER?
Spate of injuries could be bad luck -- or a bad sign for future
By Chris Forsberg,?ESPNBoston.com

Most athletes are creatures of habit and stick to pregame routines. For Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers and forward Rasheed Wallace, those routines typically intersect when Wallace returns to the locker room following his on-court warm-up at the same time Rivers wraps up his pregame briefing with the media.

Wallace even uses the same cheap-laugh joke, typically chastising Rivers for clogging up the hallway outside the locker room and causing a fire hazard. Wallace loves to tell Rivers he's going to call the fire marshal.

When Wallace didn't stroll by before Monday night's game with the Atlanta Hawks, it was a clue that something was amiss. Ironically, Rivers had just told the media how proud he's been of his team and coaching staff for overcoming all the adversity they have faced -- particularly the troubles that often have cropped up minutes before tipoff.

A short time after Rivers wrapped up his Q&A session, Wallace returned to the locker room and told his coach that he couldn't play against the Hawks, becoming the latest member of Gang Green, an ailing group of Celtics that this month has included Kevin Garnett (hyperextended right knee), Rajon Rondo (sore left hamstring), Paul Pierce (right knee infection), Tony Allen (illness), Glen Davis (sprained right ankle, thumb surgery), Kendrick Perkins (food poisoning) and Eddie House (illness). Additionally, Marquis Daniels remains sidelined after undergoing thumb surgery last month.

"I'm just happy with the way we're competing," Rivers said before finding out about Wallace, who is expected to miss as much as a week with an injury to his forefoot, which prevents him from properly pushing off while jumping.

"We've had a lot of things thrown at us here in a short stretch -- injuries, illnesses -- and the fact that they're coming five minutes before gametime. Things like that are far more difficult for our staff and players."

While Rivers has stressed to his team that injuries are not to be used as a crutch, it's clear the Celtics take a great deal of pride in remaining competitive without all of their horses.

Asked following Monday's loss if it bothered him that the Celtics had lost three games to the Hawks this season despite leading each game at halftime, Pierce voiced great confidence in his team.

"It's a concern," said Pierce, noting that Boston certainly doesn't want to give another team confidence, particularly one the Celtics might see again in the playoffs.

"But we still feel like we're a better team, [Atlanta] just got the best of us. The year we won the championship [in 2007-08], we lost four times to Washington. It definitely should bother us, but we're a better team, and it will show."

The Celtics are 26-10 nearing the midway point of the season. They're still on pace for around 60 wins. Sure, it's not the 72 victories that some had them pegged for after a blazing 20-4 start, but they're on track to be one of the top two seeds in the Eastern Conference (currently second behind the Cavaliers).

The real question is: Will the Celtics ever be free of the injury/illness bug? Is this a rash of bad luck that will fade before the postseason? Or, as many pundits openly wondered in the preseason, are the Celtics simply too old and fragile?

It's a concern that Wallace and the entire Big Three are all nicked up less than three months into the season. To be fair, Ray Allen's ailments are rather minor. His nose got grazed by a basketball Friday in Atlanta and the injury scabbed over, forcing him to wear a bandage on his nose in recent games.

That's certainly better than the knee ailments that have limited Pierce and Garnett, but it's another sign of just how ravaged this team is. No one's safe.

Beyond injury, there's reason to be legitimately concerned about whether the Celtics can compete with top competition. Their trio of losses against the Hawks highlights the fact that they have played one of the softer schedules in the NBA, sitting at 28th in strength of schedule Tuesday with their opponents' winning percentage at .473. The Celtics can take solace in the fact that other contenders, such as the Cavaliers, Spurs and Magic, have faced only marginally tougher foes to this point.

Of the Celtics' 10 losses, half have come against Atlanta and Phoenix. Take away a defeat against Orlando, and the others were letdowns against lackluster competition in Indiana (12-25), Philadelphia (12-25), the Clippers (17-18) and Golden State (11-25). The optimist sees a lack a motivation against lesser opponents. The pessimist sees a streaky team with problems at both ends of the competition spectrum.

The remainder of January will likely tell us a bit more about this team. The Celtics hope to be back near full strength in time for games in Orlando and Atlanta, and a home matchup with the Lakers near the end of the month.

Pierce did his best Monday to alleviate any fears about the team's recent struggles (3-5 in their last eight games). But nothing would make Celtics fans feel better than getting the team back together in one piece.


Chris Forsberg is a roving reporter for ESPNBoston.com.?Follow him on Twitter.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 14 16:53:24 2010
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie
Message-ID: <72848.653.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/14/wallace-griz-close-to-extension/

Good news on the NBA front - there's at least one team the Cs won't have to worry about as long as their former General Mismanager is under contract.

I was at the Cs-Nets game last night, not far from the Nets' bench - saw Roy Rogers, Doug Overton, and Tony Battie in street clothes.  Felt like I was reliving a nightmare.  Even with the Cs depleted by injury right now - and despite very real concerns about a backup for Rondo (which Eddie, TA, and JR did nothing to dismiss last night), the composition of this team is a breath of fresh air.  Thanks to the owners and Danny Ainge for giving us a team that merits the cheers.

Michael Gooen




      


From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan 15 04:16:19 2010
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:16:19 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
Message-ID: <ED47592551EF4329AD49AEA3AF538929@D2F52Z11>

Celts mailed it in tonight. Should give the Fans a refund for that pathetic performance. I tried to count the layups the Bulls had tonight , but I couldn't count them fast enough, especially in the first period. If I was Doc I would have taken the whole starting 5 out after 5 minutes in first period and put in guys that maybe, just maybe wanted to play some defense. This was a game of the CLASSIC MATADOR DEFENSE. OLE,  baby, come on down the lane, we won't stop you. I was embarrassed to call myself a Celtics fan tonight and especially ashamed of them since this performance was on National TV.

Hart

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Fri Jan 15 04:42:44 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:42:44 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <ED47592551EF4329AD49AEA3AF538929@D2F52Z11>
References: <ED47592551EF4329AD49AEA3AF538929@D2F52Z11>
Message-ID: <012301ca959d$2dc4b270$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Yes they did and it was obvious from the start they were tired, no energy
and desire.  This would have been a perfect game to put a high injury guy
like Walker out there and see what happens!  But what does Doc do, Pierce 40
minutes, Ray 36 minutes and they both were obviously out of gas!!!  Folks,
this has got to stop!!  Even with a healthy KG, Sheed and Daniels for the
playoffs, we are STILL going to need Paul & Ray "if he is still here"
greatly!  But at this rate they we be two dead horses come April!  If we
don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1 legimate
player before the deadline, there should be a criminal investigation in
Boston too!! Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of hartleyo at bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:16 PM
To: Celtics List
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight

Celts mailed it in tonight. Should give the Fans a refund for that pathetic
performance. I tried to count the layups the Bulls had tonight , but I
couldn't count them fast enough, especially in the first period. If I was
Doc I would have taken the whole starting 5 out after 5 minutes in first
period and put in guys that maybe, just maybe wanted to play some defense.
This was a game of the CLASSIC MATADOR DEFENSE. OLE,  baby, come on down the
lane, we won't stop you. I was embarrassed to call myself a Celtics fan
tonight and especially ashamed of them since this performance was on
National TV.

Hart
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/14/10
02:35:00



From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 15 05:57:41 2010
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:57:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Celts mailed it in
Message-ID: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

>>If we don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1 legimate player before the deadline, there should be a criminal investigation in Boston too!!

Maybe, Troy. But Scal has actually played pretty well in KG's absence, which is one reason I now don't expect him to go anywhere - especially with Kevin's dicey health, and now Sheed's injury, Scalabrine gives them another shooter with length who can defend bigs. As for Giddens and Walker, well, who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them? 


      


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Fri Jan 15 06:14:32 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 1:14:32 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <ED47592551EF4329AD49AEA3AF538929@D2F52Z11>
Message-ID: <20100115011432.5Q0KZ.160455.imail@eastrmwml32>

Piss poor free throw shooting, no fefensive effort and too many brain cramps.  Turnovers up the wazoo.  I'd have sat Pierce and Ray down  and put Walker and Gidden in.  Neither of the former looked like they had any energy, and shot terrible.  I know Pierce rebounded and did other things, but Deng at his lunch a number of times.  The kids couldn't do any worse.  Walker and Gidden can rebound, shoot and play near the rim. At least, mailing it in would have been a good thing.
Doc should be fined $50,000 if he doesn't mandate all players not named Ray Allen shoot 1000 ftree throws, or until your arms fall off, which ever comes first.  There is no excuse for poor ft shooting when this is all you do for a living, and making millions for it.  I can shoot ftreee throws better than half the team and I'm 55. 15 our of 28 is inexcusable and unacceptable.
---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: 
> Celts mailed it in tonight. Should give the Fans a refund for that pathetic performance. I tried to count the layups the Bulls had tonight , but I couldn't count them fast enough, especially in the first period. If I was Doc I would have taken the whole starting 5 out after 5 minutes in first period and put in guys that maybe, just maybe wanted to play some defense. This was a game of the CLASSIC MATADOR DEFENSE. OLE,  baby, come on down the lane, we won't stop you. I was embarrassed to call myself a Celtics fan tonight and especially ashamed of them since this performance was on National TV.
> 
> Hart
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Fri Jan 15 07:23:44 2010
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:23:44 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
Message-ID: <20100115072400.75E98E1C0C0@ignite.igtc.com>

I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics tonight. They had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance right up till the end.

I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven players who are better. Three of those players are injured, and two just returned from injuries.

Any elite team with our number of players out would be suffering. If we continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere. If guys come back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't going to change that.

-- Eric


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri Jan 15 11:44:17 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:44:17 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201001151144.o0FBiMVB024101@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

"As for Giddens and Walker, well, who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them?" - Peter

I can. None, but then the myth will always continue "we can get something for nothing...we're the Celtics!"


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 15 13:22:58 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 05:22:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <20100115072400.75E98E1C0C0@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <743471.48696.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

It's not as much love for Giddens & Walker as it is saving some playoff minutes for Pierce and RAllen. ? "If guys come back and stay healthy"... doesn't account for the beating that PP and RA are taking in the meantime. ??
It is bad news that we are losing to potential playoff opponents left and right (Bulls, Hawks, Orlando). ?Part of what the Cs have had going for them the past few years is making the other guys feel intimidated and like they don't really have a shot of beating us. ?Gone!@
What great players does Ainge keep alluding to that are going to be available at/after the trading deadline? ?Is he thinking of Andre Miller, Hinrich, ?Carlos Arroyo, Nate Robinson, Steve Blake - gotta be a vet.

--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

From: Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
To: Celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 2:23 AM

I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics tonight. They had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance right up till the end.

I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven players who are better. Three of those players are injured, and two just returned from injuries.

Any elite team with our number of players out would be suffering. If we continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere. If guys come back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't going to change that.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From bosox18 at charter.net  Fri Jan 15 13:50:39 2010
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:50:39 -0500
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie
In-Reply-To: <72848.653.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <72848.653.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B596A0558B904528804E89716731D14E@StevePC>

How the heck did you recognize Roy Rogers and Doug Overton out of uniform?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Gooen
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:53 AM
To: Celtics List
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/14/wallace-griz-close-to-exten
sion/

Good news on the NBA front - there's at least one team the Cs won't have to
worry about as long as their former General Mismanager is under contract.

I was at the Cs-Nets game last night, not far from the Nets' bench - saw Roy
Rogers, Doug Overton, and Tony Battie in street clothes.  Felt like I was
reliving a nightmare.  Even with the Cs depleted by injury right now - and
despite very real concerns about a backup for Rondo (which Eddie, TA, and JR
did nothing to dismiss last night), the composition of this team is a breath
of fresh air.  Thanks to the owners and Danny Ainge for giving us a team
that merits the cheers.

Michael Gooen




      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri Jan 15 14:00:32 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:00:32 -0500
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie
In-Reply-To: <B596A0558B904528804E89716731D14E@StevePC>
References: <72848.653.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<B596A0558B904528804E89716731D14E@StevePC>
Message-ID: <201001151400.o0FE0ag8027658@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Trigger in the third row gave it away.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:51 AM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie

How the heck did you recognize Roy Rogers and Doug Overton out of uniform?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Gooen
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:53 AM
To: Celtics List
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/14/wallace-griz-close-to-exten
sion/

Good news on the NBA front - there's at least one team the Cs won't have to
worry about as long as their former General Mismanager is under contract.

I was at the Cs-Nets game last night, not far from the Nets' bench - saw Roy
Rogers, Doug Overton, and Tony Battie in street clothes.  Felt like I was
reliving a nightmare.  Even with the Cs depleted by injury right now - and
despite very real concerns about a backup for Rondo (which Eddie, TA, and JR
did nothing to dismiss last night), the composition of this team is a breath
of fresh air.  Thanks to the owners and Danny Ainge for giving us a team
that merits the cheers.

Michael Gooen




      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri Jan 15 14:04:28 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:04:28 -0500
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie
In-Reply-To: <B596A0558B904528804E89716731D14E@StevePC>
References: <72848.653.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<B596A0558B904528804E89716731D14E@StevePC>
Message-ID: <201001151404.o0FE4Vg8028814@ares.afrc.af.mil>


Also acceptable answers:

"The decomposing smell wafted toward me."

"One of them gave a me a really good hamburger."

"He was the halftime entertainment."


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:51 AM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie

How the heck did you recognize Roy Rogers and Doug Overton out of uniform?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Gooen
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:53 AM
To: Celtics List
Subject: You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jan/14/wallace-griz-close-to-exten
sion/

Good news on the NBA front - there's at least one team the Cs won't have to
worry about as long as their former General Mismanager is under contract.

I was at the Cs-Nets game last night, not far from the Nets' bench - saw Roy
Rogers, Doug Overton, and Tony Battie in street clothes.  Felt like I was
reliving a nightmare.  Even with the Cs depleted by injury right now - and
despite very real concerns about a backup for Rondo (which Eddie, TA, and JR
did nothing to dismiss last night), the composition of this team is a breath
of fresh air.  Thanks to the owners and Danny Ainge for giving us a team
that merits the cheers.

Michael Gooen




      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jan 15 14:31:35 2010
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:31:35 +0000
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
Message-ID: <524880094-1263565896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1521274984-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Agreed staying healthy at the end is the key. The lakers have struggled without gasol . Take away 3 of any teams top 6 and they will  struggle.
------Original Message------
From: Eric Albert
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
Sent: Jan 14, 2010 11:23 PM

I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics tonight. They had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance right up till the end.

I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven players who are better. Three of those players are injured, and two just returned from injuries.

Any elite team with our number of players out would be suffering. If we continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere. If guys come back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't going to change that.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 15 23:00:36 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:00:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <524880094-1263565896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1521274984-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <310569.16797.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Small point, but who here believes that BOTH Daniels AND Wallace are part of our top 6?  I don't.  I'd put Daniels in the top 6, with Wallace as 7th best.  Perk's gotta be in the top 5.  No way Wallace or Daniels are more important than him...

Ryan

--- On Fri, 1/15/10, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 8:31 AM
> Agreed staying healthy at the end is
> the key. The lakers have struggled without gasol . Take away
> 3 of any teams top 6 and they will? struggle.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Eric Albert
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
> Sent: Jan 14, 2010 11:23 PM
> 
> I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics
> tonight. They had nothing, and they still hung within
> winning distance right up till the end.
> 
> I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven
> players who are better. Three of those players are injured,
> and two just returned from injuries.
> 
> Any elite team with our number of players out would be
> suffering. If we continue with all these injuries, we're not
> going anywhere. If guys come back and stay healthy, we'll do
> some damage. Coaching isn't going to change that.
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jahillsr at comcast.net  Sat Jan 16 01:13:03 2010
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:13:03 -0500
Subject: Sean Williams
Message-ID: <000201ca9649$0dde1e40$299a5ac0$@net>

Looks like he'll be busy outside of basketball for a while per this report.
What a shame if he is involved in this and blew the opportunity ahead of
him.

<Jim

 

>From "Commercial Appeal"

"Shawne Williams, who was waived by the NBA's New Jersey Nets today, was
indicted by a Shelby County Grand Jury on Tuesday on eight drug charges.

According to the Shelby County District Attorney's office, Williams was
indicted on four counts of possession of a controlled substance with intent
to manufacture/deliver/sell, and four counts of conspiracy to
manufacture/deliver/sell a controlled substance, a codeine-based syrup. Both
are considered Class E felonies and carry standard sentences of 1-2 years,
if convicted.

Williams turned himself in to authorities and was booked today into the
Shelby County Jail."

 

 

>I would love to see us take a chance on Williams.  Yes he has issues, but
he

>is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out against the Hawks
type

>teams.  He has tons of talent if he could just get his head on right.
Maybe

>a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out.  Sign him for the rest of the

>year, low risk, high reward!!  Troy

 

>As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room for Monday's

>2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.

 


From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Jan 16 01:20:28 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:20:28 -0500
Subject: Sean Williams/miscreants
In-Reply-To: <000201ca9649$0dde1e40$299a5ac0$@net>
References: <000201ca9649$0dde1e40$299a5ac0$@net>
Message-ID: <8CC646138FB8556-351C-CBA7@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com>

I'm interested in what happens to Arenas. A quick plea to the only 
charge is a new tactic in the pro athlete v law scenario. "Yeah, I did 
it, I admit it, now let's figure out where we go from here." He could 
have made a big stink, bargained down the charge, gone to trial, etc., 
but chose this route. He's a good player, but his contract, coupled 
with this image stuff, could hurt him big time.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hill <jahillsr at comcast.net>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:13 pm
Subject: Re: Sean Williams


Looks like he'll be busy outside of basketball for a while per this 
report.
What a shame if he is involved in this and blew the opportunity ahead of
him.

<Jim



>From "Commercial Appeal"

"Shawne Williams, who was waived by the NBA's New Jersey Nets today, was
indicted by a Shelby County Grand Jury on Tuesday on eight drug charges.

According to the Shelby County District Attorney's office, Williams was
indicted on four counts of possession of a controlled substance with 
intent
to manufacture/deliver/sell, and four counts of conspiracy to
manufacture/deliver/sell a controlled substance, a codeine-based syrup. 
Both
are considered Class E felonies and carry standard sentences of 1-2 
years,
if convicted.

Williams turned himself in to authorities and was booked today into the
Shelby County Jail."





>I would love to see us take a chance on Williams. Yes he has issues, 
but
he

>is the tall athetic 4/5 that could really help us out against the Hawks
type

>teams. He has tons of talent if he could just get his head on right.
Maybe

>a KG/PP/RA support group could help him out. Sign him for the rest of 
the

>year, low risk, high reward!! Troy



>As expected, the Nets waived Sean Williams to clear room for Monday's

>2-for-1 trade with the Mavericks.



_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From mafiaso316 at aol.com  Sat Jan 16 02:10:57 2010
From: mafiaso316 at aol.com (mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:10:57 EST
Subject: Sean Williams?????????????
Message-ID: <30d71.4e146f21.38827a31@aol.com>

I think you guys are talking about 2 different Williams,  One is Sean  who 
is still with the Nets and the other is Shawne who was acquired by the Nets  
from Dallas and then waived,  he is out of Memphis  and the other  
Williams, (Sean) is out of Boston College.     So who are  you all talking about?    
>From what I have seen and heard of both  of them, they would neither be 
good pick ups for the Celt's.
 
Paolo Dellasandro
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/15/2010 8:13:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jahillsr at comcast.net writes:

Looks  like he'll be busy outside of basketball for a while per this report.
What  a shame if he is involved in this and blew the opportunity ahead  of
him.

<Jim



>From "Commercial  Appeal"

"Shawne Williams, who was waived by the NBA's New Jersey Nets  today, was
indicted by a Shelby County Grand Jury on Tuesday on eight drug  charges.

According to the Shelby County District Attorney's office,  Williams was
indicted on four counts of possession of a controlled  substance with intent
to manufacture/deliver/sell, and four counts of  conspiracy to
manufacture/deliver/sell a controlled substance, a  codeine-based syrup. 
Both
are considered Class E felonies and carry  standard sentences of 1-2 years,
if convicted.

Williams turned  himself in to authorities and was booked today into the
Shelby County  Jail."





>I would love to see us take a chance on  Williams.  Yes he has issues, but
he

>is the tall athetic  4/5 that could really help us out against the  Hawks
type

>teams.  He has tons of talent if he could just  get his head on right.
Maybe

>a KG/PP/RA support group could help  him out.  Sign him for the rest of the

>year, low risk, high  reward!!  Troy



>As expected, the Nets waived Sean  Williams to clear room for Monday's

>2-for-1 trade with the  Mavericks.



_______________________________________________
The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From mafiaso316 at aol.com  Sat Jan 16 02:15:39 2010
From: mafiaso316 at aol.com (mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:15:39 EST
Subject: Sean Williams?????????????
Message-ID: <30f48.497d8f1b.38827b4b@aol.com>

Sean Williams was waived Monday and Shawne Williams was waived  Thursday,   
Both by The soon to be Brooklyn Nets.
 
 
Paolo Dellasandro
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/15/2010 9:11:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mafiaso316 at aol.com writes:

I think  you guys are talking about 2 different Williams,  One is Sean  who 
 
is still with the Nets and the other is Shawne who was acquired by the  
Nets  
from Dallas and then waived,  he is out of Memphis   and the other  
Williams, (Sean) is out of Boston College.   So who are  you all talking 
about?    
>From  what I have seen and heard of both  of them, they would neither be  
good pick ups for the Celt's.

Paolo  Dellasandro






In a message dated 1/15/2010 8:13:40  P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jahillsr at comcast.net  writes:

Looks  like he'll be busy outside of basketball for a  while per this 
report.
What  a shame if he is involved in this and  blew the opportunity ahead   of
him.

<Jim



>From "Commercial   Appeal"

"Shawne Williams, who was waived by the NBA's New Jersey  Nets  today, was
indicted by a Shelby County Grand Jury on Tuesday on  eight drug  charges.

According to the Shelby County District  Attorney's office,  Williams was
indicted on four counts of possession  of a controlled  substance with 
intent
to manufacture/deliver/sell,  and four counts of  conspiracy to
manufacture/deliver/sell a  controlled substance, a  codeine-based syrup. 
Both
are considered  Class E felonies and carry  standard sentences of 1-2 years,
if  convicted.

Williams turned  himself in to authorities and was  booked today into the
Shelby County   Jail."





>I would love to see us take a chance  on  Williams.  Yes he has issues, but
he

>is the tall  athetic  4/5 that could really help us out against the   Hawks
type

>teams.  He has tons of talent if he could  just  get his head on right.
Maybe

>a KG/PP/RA support group  could help  him out.  Sign him for the rest of 
the

>year,  low risk, high  reward!!  Troy



>As expected, the  Nets waived Sean  Williams to clear room for Monday's

>2-for-1  trade with the   Mavericks.



_______________________________________________
The   Boston Celtics Mailing   List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jahillsr at comcast.net  Sat Jan 16 02:42:00 2010
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:42:00 -0500
Subject: Sean Williams?????????????
Message-ID: <001a01ca9655$7b70b150$725213f0$@net>

I'm confused and made have this wrong.  Sorry to send inaccurate info to the
list.  If I did, of course. 

 

<Jim

 

>Sean Williams was waived Monday and Shawne Williams was waived  Thursday,


>Both by The soon to be Brooklyn Nets.

 

 

>Paolo Dellasandro

 


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sat Jan 16 05:32:17 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:32:17 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01a101ca966d$44651f80$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

No he hasn't!  He is shooting something like 25%!  He played 20+ minutes the
other night and had 3 RBs!  Someone noted recently that per minute played,
Scal is one the worst players productively in the entire league!  He plays
hard but the best thing about him is his expiring contract!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:58 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Celts mailed it in

>>If we don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1
legimate player before the deadline, there should be a criminal
investigation in Boston too!!

Maybe, Troy. But Scal has actually played pretty well in KG's absence, which
is one reason I now don't expect him to go anywhere - especially with
Kevin's dicey health, and now Sheed's injury, Scalabrine gives them another
shooter with length who can defend bigs. As for Giddens and Walker, well,
who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them?




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/14/10
02:35:00



From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sat Jan 16 05:35:12 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:35:12 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <201001151144.o0FBiMVB024101@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
References: <135728.11220.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<201001151144.o0FBiMVB024101@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <01a201ca966d$aced3970$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I am not high on Giddens either, notice I did not mention his name.  But
Walker on the other hand is totally different.  Give the kid 15 minutes a
night and I bet anything he impresses everyone!  Give him a chance Doc!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:44 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

"As for Giddens and Walker, well, who can tell what value they have, since
Doc won't play them?" - Peter

I can. None, but then the myth will always continue "we can get something
for nothing...we're the Celtics!"

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/15/10
02:35:00



From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sat Jan 16 05:38:40 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:38:40 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <524880094-1263565896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1521274984-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <524880094-1263565896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1521274984-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <01a301ca966e$289b3630$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

its not about struggling.  It is about not killing Paul & Ray before April!
Notice that the Spurs are losing a lot of games too.  Injuries are a part of
it but also, Pop is intentionally setting Duncan out about every 4 th game
to save him for when it matters while also developing his young guys.  Doc
you need to take a lesson from Pop!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of John Lyell
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:32 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight

Agreed staying healthy at the end is the key. The lakers have struggled
without gasol . Take away 3 of any teams top 6 and they will  struggle.
------Original Message------
From: Eric Albert
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
Sent: Jan 14, 2010 11:23 PM

I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics tonight. They
had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance right up till the
end.

I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven players who are
better. Three of those players are injured, and two just returned from
injuries.

Any elite team with our number of players out would be suffering. If we
continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere. If guys come
back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't going to change
that.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/15/10
02:35:00



From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan 16 13:53:11 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 8:53:11 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <01a201ca966d$aced3970$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <20100116085311.Z8CX2.5657.imail@eastrmwml37>

Giddens is a better rebounder and defensive player than Walker.
---- TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote: 
> I am not high on Giddens either, notice I did not mention his name.  But
> Walker on the other hand is totally different.  Give the kid 15 minutes a
> night and I bet anything he impresses everyone!  Give him a chance Doc!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:44 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in
> 
> "As for Giddens and Walker, well, who can tell what value they have, since
> Doc won't play them?" - Peter
> 
> I can. None, but then the myth will always continue "we can get something
> for nothing...we're the Celtics!"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/15/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From guiseppemiguel at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 14:27:41 2010
From: guiseppemiguel at gmail.com (Joe Curley)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:27:41 +0000
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <20100116085311.Z8CX2.5657.imail@eastrmwml37>
References: <01a201ca966d$aced3970$6401a8c0@troyscomputer><20100116085311.Z8CX2.5657.imail@eastrmwml37>
Message-ID: <1841046294-1263652061-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-18409563-@bda022.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

By the way, do we not do spoiler tags on this list? Watching the game slightly delayed, I was midway through the fourth quarter when I received this email and it obviously ruined the final minutes. Come on now. 

Joe in Calif.

-----Original Message-----
From: <davidp4660 at cox.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 8:53:11 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

Giddens is a better rebounder and defensive player than Walker.
---- TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote: 
> I am not high on Giddens either, notice I did not mention his name.  But
> Walker on the other hand is totally different.  Give the kid 15 minutes a
> night and I bet anything he impresses everyone!  Give him a chance Doc!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:44 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in
> 
> "As for Giddens and Walker, well, who can tell what value they have, since
> Doc won't play them?" - Peter
> 
> I can. None, but then the myth will always continue "we can get something
> for nothing...we're the Celtics!"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/15/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Sat Jan 16 15:55:09 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:55:09 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
Message-ID: <201001161555.o0GFtE1J017082@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

Then he'll garner the same crap in return. Expirings are the sweetener, not the main course. 

Can't have it both ways - if he stinks he aint bringing a superstar back in trade.
------Original Message------
From: TroySusieBrady
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
ReplyTo: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Sent: Jan 16, 2010 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

No he hasn't!  He is shooting something like 25%!  He played 20+ minutes the
other night and had 3 RBs!  Someone noted recently that per minute played,
Scal is one the worst players productively in the entire league!  He plays
hard but the best thing about him is his expiring contract!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:58 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Celts mailed it in

>>If we don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1
legimate player before the deadline, there should be a criminal
investigation in Boston too!!

Maybe, Troy. But Scal has actually played pretty well in KG's absence, which
is one reason I now don't expect him to go anywhere - especially with
Kevin's dicey health, and now Sheed's injury, Scalabrine gives them another
shooter with length who can defend bigs. As for Giddens and Walker, well,
who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them?




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/14/10
02:35:00


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From bdodgers at aol.com  Sat Jan 16 17:39:49 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:39:49 EST
Subject: Trade Buzz: Players coming and going
Message-ID: <6b68.5290430d.388353e5@aol.com>

 
 
Trade Buzz: Players coming and going

 
By Chad Ford
ESPN.com

Although the trade deadline is still a little more than a month away, a  
number of GMs are reporting that they're already receiving a record number of  
phone calls about deals. Contenders are trying to shore up their rosters. 
Some  teams are trying to rebuild. And others are just trying to save some 
cash. In  short, it looks as if we'll see a number of significant deals in the 
coming  weeks. 
 
 
 (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) Who will get traded? 


After talking with teams throughout the league, here's a look at 25 players 
 who could be changing uniforms by Feb. 18. 
We'll keep updating this list through the Feb. 18 trade deadline as new  
rumors and potential trades develop. 
Impact players most likely to be moved

(Ranked from most likely to least likely to be traded) 
 
1. _Antawn Jamison_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) , F, Wizards
Jamison is at  the top of this list for three reasons. First, the Wizards 
are a mess and seem  to be moving rapidly toward a fire sale. Second, Jamison 
is in the latter stages  of his career. Neither he nor the Wizards want him 
stuck on a terrible team.  Third, a number of contenders want him, namely 
the Cavs. That's the perfect  recipe for a big deadline trade.

2. _Troy Murphy_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013) , F, Pacers
The Pacers look as  though they're moving toward a youth movement as they 
continue to build around  _Danny Granger_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) . With a number of contending teams  interested 
in Murphy, the Pacers seem to be in the right place to make a deal.  While 
Murphy may be overpaid, there are few bigs in the league who can rebound  and 
spread the floor the way he can. With just one more year left on his  
contract, Murphy could be the missing piece for a team trying to compete for a  
title. 
The Cavs seem to have the most interest, though several other teams have 
also  told me they'll make a run at him. At the very least, the Pacers should 
be able  to deal Murphy for expiring contracts and one asset (either a draft 
pick or a  young prospect). 
 
3. _Tayshaun Prince_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724) , F, Pistons
Joe Dumars  didn't expect the Pistons to be championship contenders this 
season. But he also  didn't anticipate the team losing 13 games in a row. The 
fact that the Pistons  drafted three small forwards in last year's draft and 
that two of them -- _Jonas Jerebko_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3998)  and _Austin Daye_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3976)  -- look very promising is all you need to  
know. The word on the street is that the Pistons are in very active trade  
discussions on Prince. 

While the team would prefer to move _Richard Hamilton_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294) , I don't think it's going to be 
able  to find a home for him given his enormous contract. If the Pistons can 
swap  Prince for some help in the paint, they've got to do it. The 
combination of _Charlie Villanueva_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792) , _Jason Maxiell_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2775) , _Ben Wallace_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885)  and _Kwame Brown_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981)  just isn't getting it done. 
4. _Caron Butler_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) , G/F, Wizards
If Jamison goes,  Butler probably won't be far behind. He actually has a 
little more desirability  than Jamison because his contract is shorter (just 
one year remaining) and he's  younger. However, it's not clear that the 
Wizards are willing to just give away  Butler, who is a good player in his prime. 
The Wizards have to build around  someone, don't they? 
 
5. _Andre Miller_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=557) , PG, Blazers
Miller may be a  wily veteran, but he's struggled to adapt to Portland's 
culture and, more  specifically, head coach Nate McMillan. Miller's addition 
was never seen as a  slam dunk, but more of a desperation ploy by the 
Blazers, who felt compelled to  use their cap space this past summer after being 
spurned by _Hedo Turkoglu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862) .

While the team's original stance was that it wanted to hold on to Miller, 
his  recent run-in with McMillan has cleared the way for a possible trade. If 
the  Blazers want expiring contracts in return, they can probably move him. 
If they  demand a young player or a future first-round draft pick, probably 
not. 
6. _Jeff Foster_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) , C, Pacers
The Pacers appear to  be committed to developing _Roy Hibbert_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436)  and _Tyler Hansbrough_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3991) , leaving little 
room for Foster -- a  mobile, high-energy big man who can defend 4s and 5s. 
If you are a Western Conference team trying to stop  _Pau Gasol_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=996) , Foster would be a great 
get. The Nuggets  have shown considerable interest in Foster, but they 
aren't alone. The Blazers,  Jazz, Spurs and Suns would all like to get him, too. 
 
7. _Kirk Hinrich_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1981) , G, Bulls
The Bulls need to  move Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to have a 
realistic shot at  making a pitch to both _LeBron James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966)  and _Chris Bosh_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977)  this summer. Can you 
imagine a team with  LeBron, Bosh, _Derrick Rose_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) , _Luol Deng_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429)  and _Joakim Noah_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224) ? John Paxson can. If Bosh isn't traded  
before the deadline, you have to believe the Bulls have a good chance to get 
 both. 

However, trading Hinrich won't be easy. His productivity has really fallen  
the past two years, and he still has two years and $17 million left on his  
contract. Bill Simmons swears the Celtics will be interested. But that's a 
lot  of money for a backup point guard. 
8. _Tyrus Thomas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) , F, Bulls
Thomas has a lot of  talent but has been unable to put it all together. At 
times, he has been more of  a distraction than an asset in Chicago. The 
challenge in trading Thomas is  twofold. One, the Bulls don't want to wreck 
their cap space this summer, meaning  what they'll likely want in return is an 
expiring contract and a draft pick.  Two, whoever trades for him has to 
decide quickly whether he's worth keeping,  given that he's heading toward 
restricted free agency this summer.  
Those two factors complicate things pretty dramatically. But given that  
there's interest from both the Bulls and Thomas' camp in moving on, don't be  
surprised if a deal happens. 
 
9. _Marcus Camby_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=125) , C, Clippers
Camby may be one  of the hottest commodities on the list. Not only is he 
still a legitimate  defensive force in the paint, but he also has an expiring 
contract. You get a  player for the rest of the season and cap relief at the 
end. The biggest  question isn't whether the Clippers could move Camby, 
it's whether the  Clippers will move him. And as _Marc Stein wrote this week_ 
(http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12281/clips-camby-decision-just-go
t-tougher) , Blake Griffin's absence  complicates the Clippers' 
calculations.

The team is positioned to have significant cap room this summer if it keeps 
 Camby and lets his contract expire. Whatever offer they get for him will 
have to  match or exceed what they believe they could get on the open market 
next  season. 
10. _Carlos Boozer_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) , F/C, Jazz
Boozer is in the  same camp as Camby. He's a very productive big man in the 
last year of his deal.  However, Boozer is infinitely harder to move than 
Camby. Why? Because the Jazz  want something significant in return and 
because Boozer will want a huge  contract as a free agent this summer. 
A team trading for him is making a huge commitment. Not only is it giving  
away a prized asset (probably some combination of a young player or draft 
pick  plus cap relief), but it is also committing to being held over the coals 
by  Boozer and his agent, Rob Pelinka, this summer. That's why it's harder 
than you  might think to move Boozer. 
 
11. _Jose Calderon_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2806) , PG, Raptors
Calderon was  considered a gem just a year ago, but he struggled out of the 
gate this season,  and the Raptors have played much better without him. Now 
that he's back from  injury, you can expect the Raptors to shop him around. 
They could really use  some help at the 2-guard position. DeMar DeRozan is 
a nice prospect, but he's  not ready yet.

There have been rumblings of a Calderon-_Kevin Martin_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394)  swap. The move would give the 
Raptors a  lot of offensive firepower, but it would also cement their status as 
one of the  worst defensive teams ever. 
12. _Al Jefferson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389) , PF, Timberwolves
David Kahn  has been pretty adamant that he's not shopping Jefferson, 
saying he wants to use  the entire season to evaluate his players. But a number 
of GMs around the league  are equally adamant that Jefferson's name has been 
brought up in discussions.  Kahn doesn't sound like a guy who's convinced 
_Kevin Love_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449)  
and Jefferson can play together in the  frontcourt. 
Kahn knows he wouldn't get a talent like Danny Granger in return, but if he 
 could get an athletic center or a big-time shooter for Jefferson, he might 
 decide to make a move. 
 
13. _Devin Harris_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2382) , PG, Nets
Last year we were  plugging Harris as an All-Star. This year? I have 
sources who say the Nets are  no longer sold on Harris as a core piece on the 
team. If they can package him  with an expiring contract or two and get a young 
All-Star in return, they might  do it. If they knew they were getting John 
Wall, they'd surely do  it.

But even if they have to settle for something else, it sounds as though  
Harris' lackluster performance this season has soured folks on him. There will 
 be a lot of interest in Harris, but I'm not sure anyone will be willing to 
give  up an All-Star for him. 
14. Chris Bosh, PF, Raptors
Much to the chagrin of  Raptors fans, I've been writing that Toronto needs 
to trade Bosh now while it  can still get value for him. The closer we get 
to the trade deadline, the more  real that possibility sounds. 
Over the weekend, reports by ESPN's Marc Stein and the New York Post 
fingered  the Rockets and Lakers as teams with heavy interest in Bosh. While 
neither team  has made an official offer for Bosh, I expect both will by the 
deadline. 
I'm not sure the Rockets can put together a  compelling package, but the 
Lakers can. If L.A. offered _Andrew Bynum_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) , Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo would have to  say 
yes, wouldn't he? Bynum is a legit center who is still only 22 years old.  
And most important, he is already locked into a long-term deal. If the Lakers  
are willing to offer Bynum (a big if), the Raptors won't get a better 
offer. 
 
15. _Amare Stoudemire_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) , PF, Suns
Amare would have  been at the top of this list in August. However, the Suns 
are back to playing  Mike D'Antoni basketball, and the team is winning and 
having fun again. While I  wouldn't call the Suns contenders quite yet, 
they've been very competitive  against the top teams in the West. That should 
effectively squelch all of the  potential Stoudemire trade rumors we expected 
to hear.

The Suns are clearly trying to go for it all, and I  doubt they'll disrupt 
the flow and swap Stoudemire out before giving him and _Steve Nash_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592)  one more chance to 
lead Phoenix to the  Finals. 
Expiring contracts
1. _Zydrunas Ilgauskas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) , C, Cavs
Cleveland may be the  most motivated team in the league to do a deal. 
Another playoff failure could  devastate the Cavs' chances of keeping LeBron this 
summer. Ilgauskas is their  biggest chip. He can wipe nearly $12 million 
from someone else's books. Also,  the team that trades for him would most 
likely waive him, allowing Big Z to  rejoin the Cavs.
2. _Tracy McGrady_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) , G, Rockets
McGrady may no  longer be a superstar, but his contract is. A team trading 
for T-Mac can wipe  $22 million off its books next year. 
The key for the Rockets is to get back players worth paying and worth 
giving  up this season's potential cap space for. For the most part, talks have 
been  slow. Teams like expiring contracts but tend to shy away from giving 
All-Stars  or top young prospects in return. Too bad Chris Wallace doesn't 
need to cut  payroll this season. 
3. _Kenny Thomas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=849) , PF, Kings
The Kings are  suddenly better than anyone expected. However, they would 
still love to cut  long-term payroll. They've been using Thomas' $8.8 million 
expiring contract as  bait. In other words, you can have it if you take 
Andres Nocioni,  too. 
4. _Erick Dampier_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181) , C, Mavs
Dampier is another  intriguing trade chip. He's having a good season, and 
the Mavs are right in the  Western Conference hunt. So, Dallas could surely 
use him. However, the fact that  his contract isn't guaranteed next season 
makes him a tremendous asset and gives  Dallas one last shot at adding a 
younger veteran who could put it over the  top. 
5. _Brendan Haywood_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1000) , C, Wizards 
6. _Mike Miller_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) , F, Wizards 
7. _Mike James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1051) , G, Wizards
With the Wizards in  rebuilding mode, you can be sure that all three 
contracts are coveted. Together  they're worth about $20 million of cap relief. 
The Wizards may have to give away  Jamison and Butler, but with these expiring 
contracts, they could end up with  some decent young players or future 
first-round picks in return. 
8. _Travis Outlaw_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2015) , F, Blazers 
9. _Steve Blake_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1994) , G, Blazers
Together these two  players can get roughly $8 million off a team's books. 
If Kevin Pritchard  decides to make a big move, both players could be key 
assets to making a deal  happen. 
10. Kwame Brown, C, Pistons
Brown has been a bust in  Detroit, just as he was in Washington and L.A. 
The Pistons will try to package  his expiring $4 million contract with either 
Tayshaun Prince or Rip Hamilton to  continue to remake their roster.

From jozersky at optonline.net  Sat Jan 16 17:52:36 2010
From: jozersky at optonline.net (josh ozersky)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:52:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Trade Buzz: Players coming and going
Message-ID: <743908.317139.1263664356819.JavaMail.jozersky@mail.srv.nyk3ny1.cv.net>

Get me Prince. That's who I want. Let daniels back up Rondo.
We need another prime time scorer / defender on this team.
A physical freak with championship experience would be just
the thing right now. As would a big momser like Camby who
can step in for KG as a shotblocker / gambling funnel.

Josh


On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:39 PM, bdodgers at aol.com wrote:

> Trade Buzz: Players coming and going
>
>  By Chad Ford
> ESPN.com
>
> Although the trade deadline is still a little more than a month away, 
> a  number of GMs are reporting that they're already receiving a record 
> number of  phone calls about deals. Contenders are trying to shore up 
> their rosters. Some  teams are trying to rebuild. And others are just 
> trying to save some cash. In  short, it looks as if we'll see a number 
> of significant deals in the coming  weeks. 
> (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) Who will get traded?
>
> After talking with teams throughout the league, here's a look at 25 
> players  who could be changing uniforms by Feb. 18. We'll keep 
> updating this list through the Feb. 18 trade deadline as new  rumors 
> and potential trades develop. Impact players most likely to be moved
>
> (Ranked from most likely to least likely to be traded)  1. _Antawn 
> Jamison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) 
> , F, Wizards
> Jamison is at  the top of this list for three reasons. First, the 
> Wizards are a mess and seem  to be moving rapidly toward a fire sale. 
> Second, Jamison is in the latter stages  of his career. Neither he nor 
> the Wizards want him stuck on a terrible team.  Third, a number of 
> contenders want him, namely the Cavs. That's the perfect  recipe for a 
> big deadline trade.
>
> 2. _Troy Murphy_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013) , F, 
> Pacers
> The Pacers look as  though they're moving toward a youth movement as 
> they continue to build around  _Danny Granger_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) . With a 
> number of contending teams  interested in Murphy, the Pacers seem to 
> be in the right place to make a deal.  While Murphy may be overpaid, 
> there are few bigs in the league who can rebound  and spread the floor 
> the way he can. With just one more year left on his  contract, Murphy 
> could be the missing piece for a team trying to compete for a  title. 
> The Cavs seem to have the most interest, though several other teams 
> have also  told me they'll make a run at him. At the very least, the 
> Pacers should be able  to deal Murphy for expiring contracts and one 
> asset (either a draft pick or a  young prospect).  3. _Tayshaun 
> Prince_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724) 
> , F, Pistons
> Joe Dumars  didn't expect the Pistons to be championship contenders 
> this season. But he also  didn't anticipate the team losing 13 games 
> in a row. The fact that the Pistons  drafted three small forwards in 
> last year's draft and that two of them -- _Jonas Jerebko_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3998)  and 
> _Austin Daye_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3976)  -- look 
> very promising is all you need to  know. The word on the street is 
> that the Pistons are in very active trade  discussions on Prince.
> While the team would prefer to move _Richard Hamilton_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294) , I don't 
> think it's going to be able  to find a home for him given his enormous 
> contract. If the Pistons can swap  Prince for some help in the paint, 
> they've got to do it. The combination of _Charlie Villanueva_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792) , _Jason 
> Maxiell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2775) 
> , _Ben Wallace_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885)  and 
> _Kwame Brown_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981)  just 
> isn't getting it done. 4. _Caron Butler_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) , G/F, 
> Wizards
> If Jamison goes,  Butler probably won't be far behind. He actually has 
> a little more desirability  than Jamison because his contract is 
> shorter (just one year remaining) and he's  younger. However, it's not 
> clear that the Wizards are willing to just give away  Butler, who is a 
> good player in his prime. The Wizards have to build around  someone, 
> don't they?  5. _Andre Miller_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=557) , PG, 
> Blazers
> Miller may be a  wily veteran, but he's struggled to adapt to 
> Portland's culture and, more  specifically, head coach Nate McMillan. 
> Miller's addition was never seen as a  slam dunk, but more of a 
> desperation ploy by the Blazers, who felt compelled to  use their cap 
> space this past summer after being spurned by _Hedo Turkoglu_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862) .
>
> While the team's original stance was that it wanted to hold on to 
> Miller, his  recent run-in with McMillan has cleared the way for a 
> possible trade. If the  Blazers want expiring contracts in return, 
> they can probably move him. If they  demand a young player or a future 
> first-round draft pick, probably not. 6. _Jeff Foster_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) , C, 
> Pacers
> The Pacers appear to  be committed to developing _Roy Hibbert_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436)  and 
> _Tyler Hansbrough_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3991) , 
> leaving little room for Foster -- a  mobile, high-energy big man who 
> can defend 4s and 5s. If you are a Western Conference team trying to 
> stop  _Pau Gasol_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=996) , Foster 
> would be a great get. The Nuggets  have shown considerable interest in 
> Foster, but they aren't alone. The Blazers,  Jazz, Spurs and Suns 
> would all like to get him, too.  7. _Kirk Hinrich_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1981) , G, 
> Bulls
> The Bulls need to  move Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to 
> have a realistic shot at  making a pitch to both _LeBron James_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966)  and 
> _Chris Bosh_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977)  this 
> summer. Can you imagine a team with  LeBron, Bosh, _Derrick Rose_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) , _Luol 
> Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) 
> and _Joakim Noah_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224) ? John 
> Paxson can. If Bosh isn't traded  before the deadline, you have to 
> believe the Bulls have a good chance to get  both.
> However, trading Hinrich won't be easy. His productivity has really 
> fallen  the past two years, and he still has two years and $17 million 
> left on his  contract. Bill Simmons swears the Celtics will be 
> interested. But that's a lot  of money for a backup point guard. 8. 
> _Tyrus Thomas_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) , F, 
> Bulls
> Thomas has a lot of  talent but has been unable to put it all 
> together. At times, he has been more of  a distraction than an asset 
> in Chicago. The challenge in trading Thomas is  twofold. One, the 
> Bulls don't want to wreck their cap space this summer, meaning  what 
> they'll likely want in return is an expiring contract and a draft 
> pick.  Two, whoever trades for him has to decide quickly whether he's 
> worth keeping,  given that he's heading toward restricted free agency 
> this summer.  Those two factors complicate things pretty dramatically. 
> But given that  there's interest from both the Bulls and Thomas' camp 
> in moving on, don't be  surprised if a deal happens.  9. _Marcus 
> Camby_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=125) , 
> C, Clippers
> Camby may be one  of the hottest commodities on the list. Not only is 
> he still a legitimate  defensive force in the paint, but he also has 
> an expiring contract. You get a  player for the rest of the season and 
> cap relief at the end. The biggest  question isn't whether the 
> Clippers could move Camby, it's whether the  Clippers will move him. 
> And as _Marc Stein wrote this week_ 
> (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12281/clips-camby-decision-just-go
> t-tougher) , Blake Griffin's absence  complicates the Clippers' 
> calculations.
>
> The team is positioned to have significant cap room this summer if it 
> keeps  Camby and lets his contract expire. Whatever offer they get for 
> him will have to  match or exceed what they believe they could get on 
> the open market next  season. 10. _Carlos Boozer_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) , F/C, 
> Jazz
> Boozer is in the  same camp as Camby. He's a very productive big man 
> in the last year of his deal.  However, Boozer is infinitely harder to 
> move than Camby. Why? Because the Jazz  want something significant in 
> return and because Boozer will want a huge  contract as a free agent 
> this summer. A team trading for him is making a huge commitment. Not 
> only is it giving  away a prized asset (probably some combination of a 
> young player or draft pick  plus cap relief), but it is also 
> committing to being held over the coals by  Boozer and his agent, Rob 
> Pelinka, this summer. That's why it's harder than you  might think to 
> move Boozer.  11. _Jose Calderon_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2806) , PG, 
> Raptors
> Calderon was  considered a gem just a year ago, but he struggled out 
> of the gate this season,  and the Raptors have played much better 
> without him. Now that he's back from  injury, you can expect the 
> Raptors to shop him around. They could really use  some help at the 
> 2-guard position. DeMar DeRozan is a nice prospect, but he's  not 
> ready yet.
>
> There have been rumblings of a Calderon-_Kevin Martin_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394)  swap. 
> The move would give the Raptors a  lot of offensive firepower, but it 
> would also cement their status as one of the  worst defensive teams 
> ever. 12. _Al Jefferson_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389) , PF, 
> Timberwolves
> David Kahn  has been pretty adamant that he's not shopping Jefferson, 
> saying he wants to use  the entire season to evaluate his players. But 
> a number of GMs around the league  are equally adamant that 
> Jefferson's name has been brought up in discussions.  Kahn doesn't 
> sound like a guy who's convinced _Kevin Love_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449)  and 
> Jefferson can play together in the  frontcourt. Kahn knows he wouldn't 
> get a talent like Danny Granger in return, but if he  could get an 
> athletic center or a big-time shooter for Jefferson, he might  decide 
> to make a move.  13. _Devin Harris_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2382) , PG, 
> Nets
> Last year we were  plugging Harris as an All-Star. This year? I have 
> sources who say the Nets are  no longer sold on Harris as a core piece 
> on the team. If they can package him  with an expiring contract or two 
> and get a young All-Star in return, they might  do it. If they knew 
> they were getting John Wall, they'd surely do  it.
>
> But even if they have to settle for something else, it sounds as 
> though  Harris' lackluster performance this season has soured folks on 
> him. There will  be a lot of interest in Harris, but I'm not sure 
> anyone will be willing to give  up an All-Star for him. 14. Chris 
> Bosh, PF, Raptors
> Much to the chagrin of  Raptors fans, I've been writing that Toronto 
> needs to trade Bosh now while it  can still get value for him. The 
> closer we get to the trade deadline, the more  real that possibility 
> sounds. Over the weekend, reports by ESPN's Marc Stein and the New 
> York Post fingered  the Rockets and Lakers as teams with heavy 
> interest in Bosh. While neither team  has made an official offer for 
> Bosh, I expect both will by the deadline. I'm not sure the Rockets can 
> put together a  compelling package, but the Lakers can. If L.A. 
> offered _Andrew Bynum_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) , 
> Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo would have to  say yes, wouldn't he? Bynum 
> is a legit center who is still only 22 years old.  And most important, 
> he is already locked into a long-term deal. If the Lakers  are willing 
> to offer Bynum (a big if), the Raptors won't get a better offer.  15. 
> _Amare Stoudemire_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) , PF, 
> Suns
> Amare would have  been at the top of this list in August. However, the 
> Suns are back to playing  Mike D'Antoni basketball, and the team is 
> winning and having fun again. While I  wouldn't call the Suns 
> contenders quite yet, they've been very competitive  against the top 
> teams in the West. That should effectively squelch all of the 
> potential Stoudemire trade rumors we expected to hear.
>
> The Suns are clearly trying to go for it all, and I  doubt they'll 
> disrupt the flow and swap Stoudemire out before giving him and _Steve 
> Nash_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592) 
> one more chance to lead Phoenix to the  Finals. Expiring contracts
> 1. _Zydrunas Ilgauskas_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) , C, Cavs
> Cleveland may be the  most motivated team in the league to do a deal. 
> Another playoff failure could  devastate the Cavs' chances of keeping 
> LeBron this summer. Ilgauskas is their  biggest chip. He can wipe 
> nearly $12 million from someone else's books. Also,  the team that 
> trades for him would most likely waive him, allowing Big Z to  rejoin 
> the Cavs.
> 2. _Tracy McGrady_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) , G, 
> Rockets
> McGrady may no  longer be a superstar, but his contract is. A team 
> trading for T-Mac can wipe  $22 million off its books next year. The 
> key for the Rockets is to get back players worth paying and worth 
> giving  up this season's potential cap space for. For the most part, 
> talks have been  slow. Teams like expiring contracts but tend to shy 
> away from giving All-Stars  or top young prospects in return. Too bad 
> Chris Wallace doesn't need to cut  payroll this season. 3. _Kenny 
> Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=849) , 
> PF, Kings
> The Kings are  suddenly better than anyone expected. However, they 
> would still love to cut  long-term payroll. They've been using Thomas' 
> $8.8 million expiring contract as  bait. In other words, you can have 
> it if you take Andres Nocioni,  too. 4. _Erick Dampier_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181) , C, Mavs
> Dampier is another  intriguing trade chip. He's having a good season, 
> and the Mavs are right in the  Western Conference hunt. So, Dallas 
> could surely use him. However, the fact that  his contract isn't 
> guaranteed next season makes him a tremendous asset and gives  Dallas 
> one last shot at adding a younger veteran who could put it over the 
> top. 5. _Brendan Haywood_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1000) , C, 
> Wizards 6. _Mike Miller_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) , F, 
> Wizards 7. _Mike James_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1051) , G, 
> Wizards
> With the Wizards in  rebuilding mode, you can be sure that all three 
> contracts are coveted. Together  they're worth about $20 million of 
> cap relief. The Wizards may have to give away  Jamison and Butler, but 
> with these expiring contracts, they could end up with  some decent 
> young players or future first-round picks in return. 8. _Travis 
> Outlaw_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2015) 
> , F, Blazers 9. _Steve Blake_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1994) , G, 
> Blazers
> Together these two  players can get roughly $8 million off a team's 
> books. If Kevin Pritchard  decides to make a big move, both players 
> could be key assets to making a deal  happen. 10. Kwame Brown, C, 
> Pistons
> Brown has been a bust in  Detroit, just as he was in Washington and 
> L.A. The Pistons will try to package  his expiring $4 million contract 
> with either Tayshaun Prince or Rip Hamilton to  continue to remake 
> their roster.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 16 17:58:49 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:58:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <01a301ca966e$289b3630$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <493162.20154.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Agreed that we need to limit Ray/Paul's minutes.  

But what's worse is that we're giving HUGE minutes to Ray and Paul and still LOSING those games.  Doc likes to say that if it's a question between winning a game in December and having a healthy team in May, he'll choose the later...well, first, that's patently false, as Doc has chosen the possible win in December pretty much every time when faced with either over-playing guys or giving spot minutes to Walker/Giddens/Hudson.  Second, we're not even winning when he does overplay those guys, so what's the point?  There is no point, Doc's just dumb (on this point).

Whether Walker/Giddens have NBA talent to be rotation guys isn't even part of the debate here: it's whether playing them spot minutes will have the same immediate W/L effect while preserving the legs of our veterans.  I'm pretty sure it will and have about zero effect on winning or losing those particular games.  I'm pretty sure Walker could give us the kind of net zero 'brilliance' regularly supplied by Scal.  

Another thing completely overlooked in this discussion is the wildcard factor--how an unknown can, from time to time, jump into a game and swing it wildly in one's favor simply because of adrenalin of finally playing combined with the fact that the other team knows nothing of their game.  That D-Leaguer recently signed by Utah, that one who stepped in for an injured D-Williams in the 4th quarter of the Cavs game, hitting 3 3s, including the game winner with no time on the clock comes to mind as the perfect example of the wildcard in action in an NBA game.  Walker/Giddens have the same potential, if used.  Again, our coach has no creativity whatsoever and would probably forfeit a game before giving our young players a chance.  

Ryan

--- On Fri, 1/15/10, TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:

> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in tonight
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc..com>
> Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 11:38 PM
> its not about struggling.? It is
> about not killing Paul & Ray before April!
> Notice that the Spurs are losing a lot of games too.?
> Injuries are a part of
> it but also, Pop is intentionally setting Duncan out about
> every 4 th game
> to save him for when it matters while also developing his
> young guys.? Doc
> you need to take a lesson from Pop!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf
> Of John Lyell
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:32 AM
> To: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
> 
> Agreed staying healthy at the end is the key. The lakers
> have struggled
> without gasol . Take away 3 of any teams top 6 and they
> will? struggle.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Eric Albert
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
> Sent: Jan 14, 2010 11:23 PM
> 
> I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics
> tonight. They
> had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance
> right up till the
> end.
> 
> I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven
> players who are
> better. Three of those players are injured, and two just
> returned from
> injuries.
> 
> Any elite team with our number of players out would be
> suffering. If we
> continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere.
> If guys come
> back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't
> going to change
> that.
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> Release Date: 01/15/10
> 02:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sat Jan 16 18:51:44 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 13:51:44 -0500
Subject: Trade Buzz: Players coming and going
In-Reply-To: <743908.317139.1263664356819.JavaMail.jozersky@mail.srv.nyk3ny1.cv.net>
Message-ID: <20100116135144.D4Y9H.213357.imail@eastrmwml33>

Agreed on that selection.  The guy plays both ends of the court well.
---- josh ozersky <jozersky at optonline.net> wrote: 
> Get me Prince. That's who I want. Let daniels back up Rondo.
> We need another prime time scorer / defender on this team.
> A physical freak with championship experience would be just
> the thing right now. As would a big momser like Camby who
> can step in for KG as a shotblocker / gambling funnel.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:39 PM, bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Trade Buzz: Players coming and going
> >
> >  By Chad Ford
> > ESPN.com
> >
> > Although the trade deadline is still a little more than a month away, 
> > a  number of GMs are reporting that they're already receiving a record 
> > number of  phone calls about deals. Contenders are trying to shore up 
> > their rosters. Some  teams are trying to rebuild. And others are just 
> > trying to save some cash. In  short, it looks as if we'll see a number 
> > of significant deals in the coming  weeks. 
> > (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) Who will get traded?
> >
> > After talking with teams throughout the league, here's a look at 25 
> > players  who could be changing uniforms by Feb. 18. We'll keep 
> > updating this list through the Feb. 18 trade deadline as new  rumors 
> > and potential trades develop. Impact players most likely to be moved
> >
> > (Ranked from most likely to least likely to be traded)  1. _Antawn 
> > Jamison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) 
> > , F, Wizards
> > Jamison is at  the top of this list for three reasons. First, the 
> > Wizards are a mess and seem  to be moving rapidly toward a fire sale. 
> > Second, Jamison is in the latter stages  of his career. Neither he nor 
> > the Wizards want him stuck on a terrible team.  Third, a number of 
> > contenders want him, namely the Cavs. That's the perfect  recipe for a 
> > big deadline trade.
> >
> > 2. _Troy Murphy_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013) , F, 
> > Pacers
> > The Pacers look as  though they're moving toward a youth movement as 
> > they continue to build around  _Danny Granger_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) . With a 
> > number of contending teams  interested in Murphy, the Pacers seem to 
> > be in the right place to make a deal.  While Murphy may be overpaid, 
> > there are few bigs in the league who can rebound  and spread the floor 
> > the way he can. With just one more year left on his  contract, Murphy 
> > could be the missing piece for a team trying to compete for a  title. 
> > The Cavs seem to have the most interest, though several other teams 
> > have also  told me they'll make a run at him. At the very least, the 
> > Pacers should be able  to deal Murphy for expiring contracts and one 
> > asset (either a draft pick or a  young prospect).  3. _Tayshaun 
> > Prince_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724) 
> > , F, Pistons
> > Joe Dumars  didn't expect the Pistons to be championship contenders 
> > this season. But he also  didn't anticipate the team losing 13 games 
> > in a row. The fact that the Pistons  drafted three small forwards in 
> > last year's draft and that two of them -- _Jonas Jerebko_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3998)  and 
> > _Austin Daye_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3976)  -- look 
> > very promising is all you need to  know. The word on the street is 
> > that the Pistons are in very active trade  discussions on Prince.
> > While the team would prefer to move _Richard Hamilton_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294) , I don't 
> > think it's going to be able  to find a home for him given his enormous 
> > contract. If the Pistons can swap  Prince for some help in the paint, 
> > they've got to do it. The combination of _Charlie Villanueva_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792) , _Jason 
> > Maxiell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2775) 
> > , _Ben Wallace_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885)  and 
> > _Kwame Brown_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981)  just 
> > isn't getting it done. 4. _Caron Butler_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) , G/F, 
> > Wizards
> > If Jamison goes,  Butler probably won't be far behind. He actually has 
> > a little more desirability  than Jamison because his contract is 
> > shorter (just one year remaining) and he's  younger. However, it's not 
> > clear that the Wizards are willing to just give away  Butler, who is a 
> > good player in his prime. The Wizards have to build around  someone, 
> > don't they?  5. _Andre Miller_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=557) , PG, 
> > Blazers
> > Miller may be a  wily veteran, but he's struggled to adapt to 
> > Portland's culture and, more  specifically, head coach Nate McMillan. 
> > Miller's addition was never seen as a  slam dunk, but more of a 
> > desperation ploy by the Blazers, who felt compelled to  use their cap 
> > space this past summer after being spurned by _Hedo Turkoglu_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862) .
> >
> > While the team's original stance was that it wanted to hold on to 
> > Miller, his  recent run-in with McMillan has cleared the way for a 
> > possible trade. If the  Blazers want expiring contracts in return, 
> > they can probably move him. If they  demand a young player or a future 
> > first-round draft pick, probably not. 6. _Jeff Foster_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) , C, 
> > Pacers
> > The Pacers appear to  be committed to developing _Roy Hibbert_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436)  and 
> > _Tyler Hansbrough_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3991) , 
> > leaving little room for Foster -- a  mobile, high-energy big man who 
> > can defend 4s and 5s. If you are a Western Conference team trying to 
> > stop  _Pau Gasol_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=996) , Foster 
> > would be a great get. The Nuggets  have shown considerable interest in 
> > Foster, but they aren't alone. The Blazers,  Jazz, Spurs and Suns 
> > would all like to get him, too.  7. _Kirk Hinrich_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1981) , G, 
> > Bulls
> > The Bulls need to  move Hinrich for an expiring contract in order to 
> > have a realistic shot at  making a pitch to both _LeBron James_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966)  and 
> > _Chris Bosh_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977)  this 
> > summer. Can you imagine a team with  LeBron, Bosh, _Derrick Rose_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) , _Luol 
> > Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) 
> > and _Joakim Noah_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224) ? John 
> > Paxson can. If Bosh isn't traded  before the deadline, you have to 
> > believe the Bulls have a good chance to get  both.
> > However, trading Hinrich won't be easy. His productivity has really 
> > fallen  the past two years, and he still has two years and $17 million 
> > left on his  contract. Bill Simmons swears the Celtics will be 
> > interested. But that's a lot  of money for a backup point guard. 8. 
> > _Tyrus Thomas_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) , F, 
> > Bulls
> > Thomas has a lot of  talent but has been unable to put it all 
> > together. At times, he has been more of  a distraction than an asset 
> > in Chicago. The challenge in trading Thomas is  twofold. One, the 
> > Bulls don't want to wreck their cap space this summer, meaning  what 
> > they'll likely want in return is an expiring contract and a draft 
> > pick.  Two, whoever trades for him has to decide quickly whether he's 
> > worth keeping,  given that he's heading toward restricted free agency 
> > this summer.  Those two factors complicate things pretty dramatically. 
> > But given that  there's interest from both the Bulls and Thomas' camp 
> > in moving on, don't be  surprised if a deal happens.  9. _Marcus 
> > Camby_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=125) , 
> > C, Clippers
> > Camby may be one  of the hottest commodities on the list. Not only is 
> > he still a legitimate  defensive force in the paint, but he also has 
> > an expiring contract. You get a  player for the rest of the season and 
> > cap relief at the end. The biggest  question isn't whether the 
> > Clippers could move Camby, it's whether the  Clippers will move him. 
> > And as _Marc Stein wrote this week_ 
> > (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12281/clips-camby-decision-just-go
> > t-tougher) , Blake Griffin's absence  complicates the Clippers' 
> > calculations.
> >
> > The team is positioned to have significant cap room this summer if it 
> > keeps  Camby and lets his contract expire. Whatever offer they get for 
> > him will have to  match or exceed what they believe they could get on 
> > the open market next  season. 10. _Carlos Boozer_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) , F/C, 
> > Jazz
> > Boozer is in the  same camp as Camby. He's a very productive big man 
> > in the last year of his deal.  However, Boozer is infinitely harder to 
> > move than Camby. Why? Because the Jazz  want something significant in 
> > return and because Boozer will want a huge  contract as a free agent 
> > this summer. A team trading for him is making a huge commitment. Not 
> > only is it giving  away a prized asset (probably some combination of a 
> > young player or draft pick  plus cap relief), but it is also 
> > committing to being held over the coals by  Boozer and his agent, Rob 
> > Pelinka, this summer. That's why it's harder than you  might think to 
> > move Boozer.  11. _Jose Calderon_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2806) , PG, 
> > Raptors
> > Calderon was  considered a gem just a year ago, but he struggled out 
> > of the gate this season,  and the Raptors have played much better 
> > without him. Now that he's back from  injury, you can expect the 
> > Raptors to shop him around. They could really use  some help at the 
> > 2-guard position. DeMar DeRozan is a nice prospect, but he's  not 
> > ready yet.
> >
> > There have been rumblings of a Calderon-_Kevin Martin_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394)  swap. 
> > The move would give the Raptors a  lot of offensive firepower, but it 
> > would also cement their status as one of the  worst defensive teams 
> > ever. 12. _Al Jefferson_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389) , PF, 
> > Timberwolves
> > David Kahn  has been pretty adamant that he's not shopping Jefferson, 
> > saying he wants to use  the entire season to evaluate his players. But 
> > a number of GMs around the league  are equally adamant that 
> > Jefferson's name has been brought up in discussions.  Kahn doesn't 
> > sound like a guy who's convinced _Kevin Love_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449)  and 
> > Jefferson can play together in the  frontcourt. Kahn knows he wouldn't 
> > get a talent like Danny Granger in return, but if he  could get an 
> > athletic center or a big-time shooter for Jefferson, he might  decide 
> > to make a move.  13. _Devin Harris_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2382) , PG, 
> > Nets
> > Last year we were  plugging Harris as an All-Star. This year? I have 
> > sources who say the Nets are  no longer sold on Harris as a core piece 
> > on the team. If they can package him  with an expiring contract or two 
> > and get a young All-Star in return, they might  do it. If they knew 
> > they were getting John Wall, they'd surely do  it.
> >
> > But even if they have to settle for something else, it sounds as 
> > though  Harris' lackluster performance this season has soured folks on 
> > him. There will  be a lot of interest in Harris, but I'm not sure 
> > anyone will be willing to give  up an All-Star for him. 14. Chris 
> > Bosh, PF, Raptors
> > Much to the chagrin of  Raptors fans, I've been writing that Toronto 
> > needs to trade Bosh now while it  can still get value for him. The 
> > closer we get to the trade deadline, the more  real that possibility 
> > sounds. Over the weekend, reports by ESPN's Marc Stein and the New 
> > York Post fingered  the Rockets and Lakers as teams with heavy 
> > interest in Bosh. While neither team  has made an official offer for 
> > Bosh, I expect both will by the deadline. I'm not sure the Rockets can 
> > put together a  compelling package, but the Lakers can. If L.A. 
> > offered _Andrew Bynum_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) , 
> > Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo would have to  say yes, wouldn't he? Bynum 
> > is a legit center who is still only 22 years old.  And most important, 
> > he is already locked into a long-term deal. If the Lakers  are willing 
> > to offer Bynum (a big if), the Raptors won't get a better offer.  15. 
> > _Amare Stoudemire_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) , PF, 
> > Suns
> > Amare would have  been at the top of this list in August. However, the 
> > Suns are back to playing  Mike D'Antoni basketball, and the team is 
> > winning and having fun again. While I  wouldn't call the Suns 
> > contenders quite yet, they've been very competitive  against the top 
> > teams in the West. That should effectively squelch all of the 
> > potential Stoudemire trade rumors we expected to hear.
> >
> > The Suns are clearly trying to go for it all, and I  doubt they'll 
> > disrupt the flow and swap Stoudemire out before giving him and _Steve 
> > Nash_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592) 
> > one more chance to lead Phoenix to the  Finals. Expiring contracts
> > 1. _Zydrunas Ilgauskas_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) , C, Cavs
> > Cleveland may be the  most motivated team in the league to do a deal. 
> > Another playoff failure could  devastate the Cavs' chances of keeping 
> > LeBron this summer. Ilgauskas is their  biggest chip. He can wipe 
> > nearly $12 million from someone else's books. Also,  the team that 
> > trades for him would most likely waive him, allowing Big Z to  rejoin 
> > the Cavs.
> > 2. _Tracy McGrady_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) , G, 
> > Rockets
> > McGrady may no  longer be a superstar, but his contract is. A team 
> > trading for T-Mac can wipe  $22 million off its books next year. The 
> > key for the Rockets is to get back players worth paying and worth 
> > giving  up this season's potential cap space for. For the most part, 
> > talks have been  slow. Teams like expiring contracts but tend to shy 
> > away from giving All-Stars  or top young prospects in return. Too bad 
> > Chris Wallace doesn't need to cut  payroll this season. 3. _Kenny 
> > Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=849) , 
> > PF, Kings
> > The Kings are  suddenly better than anyone expected. However, they 
> > would still love to cut  long-term payroll. They've been using Thomas' 
> > $8.8 million expiring contract as  bait. In other words, you can have 
> > it if you take Andres Nocioni,  too. 4. _Erick Dampier_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181) , C, Mavs
> > Dampier is another  intriguing trade chip. He's having a good season, 
> > and the Mavs are right in the  Western Conference hunt. So, Dallas 
> > could surely use him. However, the fact that  his contract isn't 
> > guaranteed next season makes him a tremendous asset and gives  Dallas 
> > one last shot at adding a younger veteran who could put it over the 
> > top. 5. _Brendan Haywood_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1000) , C, 
> > Wizards 6. _Mike Miller_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) , F, 
> > Wizards 7. _Mike James_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1051) , G, 
> > Wizards
> > With the Wizards in  rebuilding mode, you can be sure that all three 
> > contracts are coveted. Together  they're worth about $20 million of 
> > cap relief. The Wizards may have to give away  Jamison and Butler, but 
> > with these expiring contracts, they could end up with  some decent 
> > young players or future first-round picks in return. 8. _Travis 
> > Outlaw_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2015) 
> > , F, Blazers 9. _Steve Blake_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1994) , G, 
> > Blazers
> > Together these two  players can get roughly $8 million off a team's 
> > books. If Kevin Pritchard  decides to make a big move, both players 
> > could be key assets to making a deal  happen. 10. Kwame Brown, C, 
> > Pistons
> > Brown has been a bust in  Detroit, just as he was in Washington and 
> > L.A. The Pistons will try to package  his expiring $4 million contract 
> > with either Tayshaun Prince or Rip Hamilton to  continue to remake 
> > their roster.
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sun Jan 17 05:41:36 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:41:36 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
In-Reply-To: <201001161555.o0GFtE1J017082@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
References: <201001161555.o0GFtE1J017082@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <020301ca9737$bbeeb820$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I guess that Pau Gasol is crap then!!  You better look at most of the recent
trades made, most of them involve pure salary dumps!  And you will see a lot
more of them too!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:55 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in

Then he'll garner the same crap in return. Expirings are the sweetener, not
the main course.

Can't have it both ways - if he stinks he aint bringing a superstar back in
trade.
------Original Message------
From: TroySusieBrady
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
ReplyTo: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Sent: Jan 16, 2010 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

No he hasn't!  He is shooting something like 25%!  He played 20+ minutes the
other night and had 3 RBs!  Someone noted recently that per minute played,
Scal is one the worst players productively in the entire league!  He plays
hard but the best thing about him is his expiring contract!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:58 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Celts mailed it in

>>If we don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1
legimate player before the deadline, there should be a criminal
investigation in Boston too!!

Maybe, Troy. But Scal has actually played pretty well in KG's absence, which
is one reason I now don't expect him to go anywhere - especially with
Kevin's dicey health, and now Sheed's injury, Scalabrine gives them another
shooter with length who can defend bigs. As for Giddens and Walker, well,
who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them?




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http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
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_______________________________________________
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From tsb33 at windstream.net  Sun Jan 17 05:42:44 2010
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:42:44 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in tonight
In-Reply-To: <493162.20154.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <01a301ca966e$289b3630$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
	<493162.20154.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <020401ca9737$e4804f10$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Well said Ryan.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:59 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in tonight

Agreed that we need to limit Ray/Paul's minutes.

But what's worse is that we're giving HUGE minutes to Ray and Paul and still
LOSING those games.  Doc likes to say that if it's a question between
winning a game in December and having a healthy team in May, he'll choose
the later...well, first, that's patently false, as Doc has chosen the
possible win in December pretty much every time when faced with either
over-playing guys or giving spot minutes to Walker/Giddens/Hudson.  Second,
we're not even winning when he does overplay those guys, so what's the
point?  There is no point, Doc's just dumb (on this point).

Whether Walker/Giddens have NBA talent to be rotation guys isn't even part
of the debate here: it's whether playing them spot minutes will have the
same immediate W/L effect while preserving the legs of our veterans.  I'm
pretty sure it will and have about zero effect on winning or losing those
particular games.  I'm pretty sure Walker could give us the kind of net zero
'brilliance' regularly supplied by Scal.

Another thing completely overlooked in this discussion is the wildcard
factor--how an unknown can, from time to time, jump into a game and swing it
wildly in one's favor simply because of adrenalin of finally playing
combined with the fact that the other team knows nothing of their game.
That D-Leaguer recently signed by Utah, that one who stepped in for an
injured D-Williams in the 4th quarter of the Cavs game, hitting 3 3s,
including the game winner with no time on the clock comes to mind as the
perfect example of the wildcard in action in an NBA game.  Walker/Giddens
have the same potential, if used.  Again, our coach has no creativity
whatsoever and would probably forfeit a game before giving our young players
a chance.

Ryan

--- On Fri, 1/15/10, TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:

> From: TroySusieBrady <tsb33 at windstream.net>
> Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in tonight
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc..com>
> Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 11:38 PM its not about struggling.? It
> is about not killing Paul & Ray before April!
> Notice that the Spurs are losing a lot of games too. Injuries are a
> part of it but also, Pop is intentionally setting Duncan out about
> every 4 th game to save him for when it matters while also developing
> his young guys.? Doc you need to take a lesson from Pop!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf
> Of John Lyell
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:32 AM
> To: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
>
> Agreed staying healthy at the end is the key. The lakers have
> struggled without gasol . Take away 3 of any teams top 6 and they will?
> struggle.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Eric Albert
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in tonight
> Sent: Jan 14, 2010 11:23 PM
>
> I guess I'm the only one who was impressed with the Celtics tonight.
> They had nothing, and they still hung within winning distance right up
> till the end.
>
> I don't get the love for Giddens and Walker. We have eleven players
> who are better. Three of those players are injured, and two just
> returned from injuries.
>
> Any elite team with our number of players out would be suffering. If
> we continue with all these injuries, we're not going anywhere.
> If guys come
> back and stay healthy, we'll do some damage. Coaching isn't going to
> change that.
>
> -- Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
> 01/15/10 02:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>




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From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Sun Jan 17 17:38:45 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:38:45 -0500
Subject: Celts mailed it in
Message-ID: <201001171738.o0HHclWT004781@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

We all know Chris Wallace is an idiot and he wanted to stick it to the Cs for demoting him. (And like every other CW move didn't work as the Cs won it all anyway).

Name some other "pure salary dumps" aside from that one  and you'll maybe have a case, but the continuing pipe dream of "we can dump Scal for the superstar of our choice because of salary" is pretty silly homerism.


----- Original Message -----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com <celtics-bounces at igtc.com>
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun Jan 17 00:41:36 2010
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

I guess that Pau Gasol is crap then!!  You better look at most of the recent
trades made, most of them involve pure salary dumps!  And you will see a lot
more of them too!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:55 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: Celts mailed it in

Then he'll garner the same crap in return. Expirings are the sweetener, not
the main course.

Can't have it both ways - if he stinks he aint bringing a superstar back in
trade.
------Original Message------
From: TroySusieBrady
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
ReplyTo: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Sent: Jan 16, 2010 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in

No he hasn't!  He is shooting something like 25%!  He played 20+ minutes the
other night and had 3 RBs!  Someone noted recently that per minute played,
Scal is one the worst players productively in the entire league!  He plays
hard but the best thing about him is his expiring contract!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:58 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Celts mailed it in

>>If we don't package Scal, Giddens, Williams &/or House for at least 1
legimate player before the deadline, there should be a criminal
investigation in Boston too!!

Maybe, Troy. But Scal has actually played pretty well in KG's absence, which
is one reason I now don't expect him to go anywhere - especially with
Kevin's dicey health, and now Sheed's injury, Scalabrine gives them another
shooter with length who can defend bigs. As for Giddens and Walker, well,
who can tell what value they have, since Doc won't play them?




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celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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02:35:00


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http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
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http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
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From bdodgers at aol.com  Sun Jan 17 18:11:12 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:11:12 EST
Subject: Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
Message-ID: <18b9d.1361546f.3884acc0@aol.com>

 
Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
 
ESPN.com  news services

_Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  guard _Ray 
Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9)   thinks 
it's time to limit fans' influence in All-Star voting with _Allen  Iverson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=366)  and _Tracy  
McGrady_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) , despite 
having little to no impact this season, both headed into  the final hours of 
voting in position to start. 
Unwanted by their teams, Iverson and McGrady are still adored by their 
fans,  who still consider them stars even though their stats say otherwise. 
The _Memphis Grizzlies_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mem)  
 quickly parted ways with Iverson. The _Houston Rockets_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=hou)  are  trying to trade McGrady. 
Maybe the players can swap stories of their rocky roads while covering each 
 other at the All-Star Game. 
"I like the fact that the fans get the opportunity to vote and pick who  
they'd like to see in the All-Star Game, but I don't think it should be 100  
percent," Allen said this week. 
Allen said the fan voting has made the game "watered down" and called for a 
 change in the process. 
Allen said fans should have 50 percent of the vote, with the other 50 
percent  being divided evenly between the media and the players. He said players 
know who  is playing the best, and believes with his idea, "you'd look at 
five guys  starting the All-Star team regardless of hype or highlight." 
The NBA likes things the way they are. 
"We look at it as a great way to engage the fans," NBA spokesman Brian  
McIntyre said. "We think it's a good system." 
The NBA went to fan voting for the starters in the mid-70s and this season  
made it even more available to its fans by allowing them to vote by text  
messaging.  
Paper balloting has already closed, but votes can be cast until 11:59 p.m. 
ET  on Monday night on nba.com or by texting a player's last name to 
6-9-6-2-2  (MYNBA). Starters will be announced Thursday night. 
McGrady has a good chance of being passed, as his  lead over _Steve Nash_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592)   for the second 
guard spot in the Western Conference was only 2,375 votes when  the most 
recent update was released on Jan. 7.  
He hasn't been able to strengthen his case since then, since he'd already  
been granted a leave from the Rockets while they try to find a trade. 
He's played sparingly in only six games this season since coming back from  
knee surgery, and Allen thinks commissioner David Stern should consider a 
rule  mandating a player appear in a minimum number of games to be eligible. 
"Tracy, if he played, I'm sure he'd play well enough to be an All-Star 
player  because he's done that his career," Allen said. "But again, that's 
taking away  from another player in the Western Conference that's having a great 
year, that's  been playing, that deserves to be in there." 
Iverson had a better shot of holding on to his No. 2  spot in the East, 
leading _Vince  Carter_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136)  by more than 185,000 votes. He's listed with West players on the  
paper ballot after starting the season in Memphis, but his votes count in the  
East since he signed with the _Philadelphia  76ers_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=phi) . 
He hasn't played at an All-Star level this season, but fans may be looking 
at  what he's done in the past. 
"A lot of times voting reflects career achievement as well as yearly  
achievements," McIntyre said. 
Allen also mentioned getting the coaches, who pick the reserves, involved 
in  selecting the starters. Even that may not guarantee the most deserving 10 
 players, since coaches could have their own opinions about who belongs in 
the  All-Star game. 
During _Shaquille  O'Neal_ (http://sports.esp
n.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=614) 's unproductive, injury-plagued final season in Miami in 2008, 
former  Knicks coach _Isiah  Thomas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3507)  said he planned to vote him as a reserve anyway, 
recalling when he  played that respected older players such as Julius Erving 
still made All-Star  teams late in their careers. 
That's why Charlotte coach Larry Brown supports Iverson's election. 
"I've seen Willie Mays and those older guys start based on what they've 
done  in their career in baseball and we've had that happen in basketball for 
years,  guys that have made a contribution," Brown said. "That's why the fans 
are  involved and I think it's kind of neat that they are involved. They 
support the  league, they vote for their favorite players. I always look at a 
guy's body of  work." 
That's fine for some, but it means worthy players are going to be left out. 
 Unlike baseball, which mandates every team be represented in its All-Star 
Game,  the NBA has only 12 spots per conference to fill. 
"You figure if there's 24 players that get named to the All-Star team,  
there's always 30 that deserve it, and you figure that's six that should be on  
the All-Star team," Allen said. 
Toronto forward _Chris  Bosh_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977)  had little chance of starting the game in his hometown of 
Dallas,  sitting well behind _LeBron  James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966)  and _Kevin  Garnett_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)  despite a terrific first half. Yet he 
doesn't want to change the  voting format. 
"It's all about the fans," he said. "It's all about who they want to see  
because they generate the dollars, they're going to watch the game, so 
they're  going to vote for their favorite players and that's probably how it 
should  be." 
Information from The Associated Press was used in this  report.

From douglas342 at aol.com  Sun Jan 17 18:32:57 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:32:57 -0500
Subject: Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
In-Reply-To: <18b9d.1361546f.3884acc0@aol.com>
References: <18b9d.1361546f.3884acc0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC65BA9FBA1192-20B8-1F429@webmail-m032.sysops.aol.com>

Right on!  Here's my idea, first voiced years ago by a baseball writer: 
  fans vote, players vote, media votes.  Any player getting the nod from 
two of those groups starts.  If no one gets voted in by 2 of the 3, the 
players' pick gets the start. The coach of the team picks the reserves.


-----Original Message-----
From: bdodgers at aol.com
To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 10:11 am
Subject: Allen takes issue with fans' voting role



Allen takes issue with fans' voting role


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 17 19:22:23 2010
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:22:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: minutes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.69.1263751919.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.69.1263751919.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <63159.23463.qm@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

couldn't agree more. whether giddens and/or walker will ever be rotation guys on a great team isn't even the point now. the point is to shave minutes off pierce/allen/garnett's game all year long to keep them fresh for the playoffs. if that means the game swings a few points when they come in, so be it. if it swings to our side, count your blessings. throw them out there, doc. get them a little confidence so when we do need them for spot minutes in the playoffs, they can give us a lift. 

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:58:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in tonight
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <493162.20154.qm at web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Agreed that we need to limit Ray/Paul's minutes.  

But what's worse is that we're giving HUGE minutes to Ray and Paul and still LOSING those games.  Doc likes to say that if it's a question between winning a game in December and having a healthy team in May, he'll choose the later...well, first, that's patently false, as Doc has chosen the possible win in December pretty much every time when faced with either over-playing guys or giving spot minutes to Walker/Giddens/Hudson.  Second, we're not even winning when he does overplay those guys, so what's the point?  There is no point, Doc's just dumb (on this point).

Whether Walker/Giddens have NBA talent to be rotation guys isn't even part of the debate here: it's whether playing them spot minutes will have the same immediate W/L effect while preserving the legs of our veterans.  I'm pretty sure it will and have about zero effect on winning or losing those particular games.  I'm pretty sure Walker could give us the kind of net zero 'brilliance' regularly supplied by Scal.  

Another thing completely overlooked in this discussion is the wildcard factor--how an unknown can, from time to time, jump into a game and swing it wildly in one's favor simply because of adrenalin of finally playing combined with the fact that the other team knows nothing of their game.  That D-Leaguer recently signed by Utah, that one who stepped in for an injured D-Williams in the 4th quarter of the Cavs game, hitting 3 3s, including the game winner with no time on the clock comes to mind as the perfect example of the wildcard in action in an NBA game.  Walker/Giddens have the same potential, if used.  Again, our coach has no creativity whatsoever and would probably forfeit a game before giving our young players a chance.  

Ryan


      


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sun Jan 17 19:53:12 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:53:12 -0500
Subject: Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
In-Reply-To: <8CC65BA9FBA1192-20B8-1F429@webmail-m032.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100117145312.SVM55.571482.imail@eastrmwml38>

I don't think the fans vote4 should count at all.  Too many incidents of ballot stuffing. It's not a celebrity show, nor a popularity contest.  The qualified people allowed to vote should be restricted to players and coaches.  I wouldn't even want the officials invovled, as they suck in the NBA.  Too much favoritism and bias for and against certain players.  Getting back to the fans, it's not fair for high media areas to have so many fan votes, while the "bottom feeders" get the proverbial screw job.  Players and coaches only, IMO.
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> Right on!  Here's my idea, first voiced years ago by a baseball writer: 
>   fans vote, players vote, media votes.  Any player getting the nod from 
> two of those groups starts.  If no one gets voted in by 2 of the 3, the 
> players' pick gets the start. The coach of the team picks the reserves.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bdodgers at aol.com
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 10:11 am
> Subject: Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
> 
> 
> 
> Allen takes issue with fans' voting role
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 17 23:17:44 2010
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:17:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: minutes
In-Reply-To: <63159.23463.qm@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <815339.31288.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Agreed.
Unless the player(s) at the end of the bench are being punished, they should be playing at least spot minutes during times?when other key subs and starters are out. For the past 3 weeks?Doc's playing Pierce, Allen even Rhondo 38-40 mins a game, watching them wear out right before or eyes and playing .500 ball to boot, it just does not make sense and sends the wrong message to those players making them useless when they are called on.
The thing this is who Doc is as a coach, he can only tolerate one maybe two young players per season to even think they have a chance to play any minutes, even garbage time. I like him as he and Ainge get along and he is a veterans/players coach but developing young talent is not his thing.
Go C's?
--- On Sun, 1/17/10, steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: minutes
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:22 PM

couldn't agree more. whether giddens and/or walker will ever be rotation guys on a great team isn't even the point now. the point is to shave minutes off pierce/allen/garnett's game all year long to keep them fresh for the playoffs. if that means the game swings a few points when they come in, so be it. if it swings to our side, count your blessings. throw them out there, doc. get them a little confidence so when we do need them for spot minutes in the playoffs, they can give us a lift. 

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:58:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Celts mailed it in tonight
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <493162.20154.qm at web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Agreed that we need to limit Ray/Paul's minutes.? 

But what's worse is that we're giving HUGE minutes to Ray and Paul and still LOSING those games.? Doc likes to say that if it's a question between winning a game in December and having a healthy team in May, he'll choose the later...well, first, that's patently false, as Doc has chosen the possible win in December pretty much every time when faced with either over-playing guys or giving spot minutes to Walker/Giddens/Hudson.? Second, we're not even winning when he does overplay those guys, so what's the point?? There is no point, Doc's just dumb (on this point).

Whether Walker/Giddens have NBA talent to be rotation guys isn't even part of the debate here: it's whether playing them spot minutes will have the same immediate W/L effect while preserving the legs of our veterans.? I'm pretty sure it will and have about zero effect on winning or losing those particular games.? I'm pretty sure Walker could give us the kind of net zero 'brilliance' regularly supplied by Scal.? 

Another thing completely overlooked in this discussion is the wildcard factor--how an unknown can, from time to time, jump into a game and swing it wildly in one's favor simply because of adrenalin of finally playing combined with the fact that the other team knows nothing of their game.? That D-Leaguer recently signed by Utah, that one who stepped in for an injured D-Williams in the 4th quarter of the Cavs game, hitting 3 3s, including the game winner with no time on the clock comes to mind as the perfect example of the wildcard in action in an NBA game.? Walker/Giddens have the same potential, if used.? Again, our coach has no creativity whatsoever and would probably forfeit a game before giving our young players a chance.? 

Ryan


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From bdodgers at aol.com  Mon Jan 18 16:54:17 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:54:17 EST
Subject: Marbury joins Chinese pro team
Message-ID: <30719.77961d15.3885ec39@aol.com>

 
Marbury joins Chinese pro team
 

Reuters

BEIJING -- Two-time NBA All-Star _Stephon Marbury_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=509)  will become the highest profile  
American to play in the Chinese Basketball Association after he agreed to join  
the league's Shanxi club. 
The 32-year-old, a free agent since leaving the _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  last season, had agreed to a deal 
with  the northern club and would arrive in Shanxi next week, the team 
announced on  its official Web site.  
"The aim of signing Marbury is to pay back our fans and try to win more 
games  in the rest of the season," said Shanxi boss Wang Xingjiang. 
The 2001 and 2003 NBA All-Star was expected to help boost Shanxi's ticket  
sales as well as their chances of making the playoffs. Shanxi is currently 
15th  in the 17-team league. 
Wang added that Marbury's salary would not be too  high because the former 
_New  Jersey Nets_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn)  and 
_Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho)  player 
wanted to promote his personal  brand of shoes in China. 
Shanxi last season hired former NBA player _Bonzi Wells_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=901) , who scored as many as 50 points 
a game.  The contract ended after less than two months when Wells went on 
vacation but  failed to return on time.

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Jan 18 18:56:20 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:56:20 -0500
Subject: Marbury joins Chinese pro team
In-Reply-To: <30719.77961d15.3885ec39@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100118135620.6DKUQ.27155.imail@eastrmwml42>

Let him enjoy chow mein.
---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote: 
>  
> Marbury joins Chinese pro team
>  
> 
> Reuters
> 
> BEIJING -- Two-time NBA All-Star _Stephon Marbury_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=509)  will become the highest profile  
> American to play in the Chinese Basketball Association after he agreed to join  
> the league's Shanxi club. 
> The 32-year-old, a free agent since leaving the _Boston Celtics_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  last season, had agreed to a deal 
> with  the northern club and would arrive in Shanxi next week, the team 
> announced on  its official Web site.  
> "The aim of signing Marbury is to pay back our fans and try to win more 
> games  in the rest of the season," said Shanxi boss Wang Xingjiang. 
> The 2001 and 2003 NBA All-Star was expected to help boost Shanxi's ticket  
> sales as well as their chances of making the playoffs. Shanxi is currently 
> 15th  in the 17-team league. 
> Wang added that Marbury's salary would not be too  high because the former 
> _New  Jersey Nets_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn)  and 
> _Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho)  player 
> wanted to promote his personal  brand of shoes in China. 
> Shanxi last season hired former NBA player _Bonzi Wells_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=901) , who scored as many as 50 points 
> a game.  The contract ended after less than two months when Wells went on 
> vacation but  failed to return on time.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From bgoudreau at verizon.net  Tue Jan 19 04:52:23 2010
From: bgoudreau at verizon.net (Robert Goudreau)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:52:23 -0500
Subject: vs dallas
Message-ID: <09B33634B2814C6381B804AA2A069BF1@gail8c0dd2bec0>

When we needa shooter on the floor
there must be someone on the bench
that can put it in the hole and not be
afraisd of taking a shot from 10 feet
out. Thats what happened tonight.
They plugged up the middle and we kept trying to plow it down o\in the
paint to within 3 feet of the basket
and they had at least three guys there
to block the shsot or get any rebounds.
JR, Walker, Scal anybvody that would
not be afraid to shoot no matter how
their defensive ability was not going to
hurt us as they were shooting lights
out anyway. We just couldn't put the 
round thing thru the ring with the net
on it....................

Goody

From bdodgers at aol.com  Wed Jan 20 20:37:27 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:37:27 EST
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
Message-ID: <10f1a.6de6fa53.3888c387@aol.com>

 
Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
 

By Chris Forsberg
ESPNBoston.com

The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials 
following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
"[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
about it. We'll  see them again." 
The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the  
officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Jan 20 20:48:25 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:48:25 -0500
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <10f1a.6de6fa53.3888c387@aol.com>
References: <10f1a.6de6fa53.3888c387@aol.com>
Message-ID: <201001202048.o0KKmQ9I018622@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.

I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.

BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.

Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'

 
Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
 

By Chris Forsberg
ESPNBoston.com

The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials 
following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
"[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
about it. We'll  see them again." 
The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the  
officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Wed Jan 20 21:53:47 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:53:47 -0500
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <201001202048.o0KKmQ9I018622@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49>

I agree with Wallace.  Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.  Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.  Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.  The officials hate to hear the truth.  Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
> 
> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
> 
> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
> 
> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> 
>  
> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>  
> 
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
> 
> The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials 
> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
> whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
> foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
> about it. We'll  see them again." 
> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
> four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
> added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
> there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the  
> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
> president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
> Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 22:05:47 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49>
Message-ID: <777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

And I agree w/you. ?And I'm glad Wallace speaks out. ?If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
Ellie

--- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:

From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM

I agree with Wallace.? Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.? Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.? Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.? The officials hate to hear the truth.? Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
> 
> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
> 
> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
> 
> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> 
>? 
> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>? 
> 
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
> 
> The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)? forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)? $35,000 for publicly criticizing game? officials 
> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
> whole lot of? [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
> foul trouble? limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
> about it. We'll? see them again." 
> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
> four? fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
> added,? "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
> there was so? many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the? 
> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
> president? of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
> Chris Forsberg covers? the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on? 
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 22:17:56 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:56 +0100
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49> 
	<777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is that 'Sheed doesn't kiss referee butt. He's the guy
who's always right at the wrong time. In essence, 'Sheed is the guy
with CEO level talent and intern level EQ. He could have been the no.
1 power forward in the *history* of the NBA. I love him, but he drives
me crazy with his antics.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> And I agree w/you. ?And I'm glad Wallace speaks out. ?If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
> Ellie
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:
>
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
>
> I agree with Wallace.? Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.? Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.? Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.? The officials hate to hear the truth.? Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
>>
>> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
>>
>> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
>>
>> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
>> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>
>>
>> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>
>>
>> By Chris Forsberg
>> ESPNBoston.com
>>
>> The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)? forward _Rasheed Wallace_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)? $35,000 for publicly criticizing game? officials
>> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) .
>> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a
>> whole lot of? [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which
>> foul trouble? limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried
>> about it. We'll? see them again."
>> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with
>> four? fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace
>> added,? "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was,
>> there was so? many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it."
>> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the
>> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November.
>> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice
>> president? of basketball operations Stu Jackson.
>> Chris Forsberg covers? the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on
>> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From jozersky at optonline.net  Wed Jan 20 22:54:27 2010
From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:54:27 +0000
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49><777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com><56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Let's not get carried away. Kg is a much better player, and Duncan is better than kg. Mchale is better and pettit and Karl Malone too. Plus many others.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:56 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'

The problem is that 'Sheed doesn't kiss referee butt. He's the guy
who's always right at the wrong time. In essence, 'Sheed is the guy
with CEO level talent and intern level EQ. He could have been the no.
1 power forward in the *history* of the NBA. I love him, but he drives
me crazy with his antics.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> And I agree w/you. ?And I'm glad Wallace speaks out. ?If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
> Ellie
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:
>
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
>
> I agree with Wallace.? Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.? Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.? Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.? The officials hate to hear the truth.? Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
>>
>> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
>>
>> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
>>
>> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
>> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>
>>
>> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>
>>
>> By Chris Forsberg
>> ESPNBoston.com
>>
>> The NBA fined_Boston Celtics_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)? forward_Rasheed Wallace_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)? $35,000 for publicly criticizing game? officials
>> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the_Dallas Mavericks_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) .
>> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_
>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a
>> whole lot of? [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which
>> foul trouble? limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried
>> about it. We'll? see them again."
>> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with
>> four? fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace
>> added,? "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was,
>> there was so? many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it."
>> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the
>> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November.
>> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice
>> president? of basketball operations Stu Jackson.
>> Chris Forsberg covers? the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com._Follow him on
>> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
>>_______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 20 23:07:08 2010
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:07:08 -0500
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49><777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com><56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com>,
	<567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W6E586EA4FB0E2291F2939A5640@phx.gbl>


Aslong as we are on this subject, has anyone read Bill Simmons new book, "The book of Basketball"? I just finished it and I highly recommend it. Not only is there a whole chapter debating Russ vs Wilt, but he rates the top 96 players of all time and dedicates extended sections to each player explaining why he placed them where he did. I thought of it reading this KG vs Duncan vs McHale thread.

 

Anyways, I really can't recommend the book enough.
 
> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> From: jozersky at optonline.net
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:54:27 +0000
> 
> Let's not get carried away. Kg is a much better player, and Duncan is better than kg. Mchale is better and pettit and Karl Malone too. Plus many others.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:56 
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> 
> The problem is that 'Sheed doesn't kiss referee butt. He's the guy
> who's always right at the wrong time. In essence, 'Sheed is the guy
> with CEO level talent and intern level EQ. He could have been the no.
> 1 power forward in the *history* of the NBA. I love him, but he drives
> me crazy with his antics.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > And I agree w/you.  And I'm glad Wallace speaks out.  If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
> > Ellie
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
> > Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
> >
> > I agree with Wallace.  Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.  Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.  Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.  The officials hate to hear the truth.  Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
> > ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
> >> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
> >>
> >> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
> >>
> >> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
> >>
> >> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
> >> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> >>
> >>
> >> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> >>
> >>
> >> By Chris Forsberg
> >> ESPNBoston.com
> >>
> >> The NBA fined_Boston Celtics_
> >> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward_Rasheed Wallace_
> >> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials
> >> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the_Dallas Mavericks_
> >> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) .
> >> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_
> >> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a
> >> whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which
> >> foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried
> >> about it. We'll  see them again."
> >> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with
> >> four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace
> >> added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was,
> >> there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it."
> >> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the
> >> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November.
> >> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice
> >> president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson.
> >> Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com._Follow him on
> >> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> >>_______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 23:08:06 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:08:06 +0100
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49> 
	<777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com> 
	<567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <56a297001001201508o95fc9eatfd9a295bd7da8a89@mail.gmail.com>

Sheed has/had more talent than all of them. This is before he looked
like a sausage with stick arms of course.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM,  <jozersky at optonline.net> wrote:
> Let's not get carried away. Kg is a much better player, and Duncan is better than kg. Mchale is better and pettit and Karl Malone too. Plus many others.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:56
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>
> The problem is that 'Sheed doesn't kiss referee butt. He's the guy
> who's always right at the wrong time. In essence, 'Sheed is the guy
> with CEO level talent and intern level EQ. He could have been the no.
> 1 power forward in the *history* of the NBA. I love him, but he drives
> me crazy with his antics.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> And I agree w/you. ?And I'm glad Wallace speaks out. ?If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
>> Ellie
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
>> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
>>
>> I agree with Wallace.? Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.? Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.? Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.? The officials hate to hear the truth.? Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
>> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>>> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
>>>
>>> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
>>>
>>> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
>>>
>>> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
>>> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>
>>>
>>> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>
>>>
>>> By Chris Forsberg
>>> ESPNBoston.com
>>>
>>> The NBA fined_Boston Celtics_
>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)? forward_Rasheed Wallace_
>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)? $35,000 for publicly criticizing game? officials
>>> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the_Dallas Mavericks_
>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) .
>>> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_
>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a
>>> whole lot of? [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which
>>> foul trouble? limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried
>>> about it. We'll? see them again."
>>> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with
>>> four? fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace
>>> added,? "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was,
>>> there was so? many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it."
>>> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the
>>> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November.
>>> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice
>>> president? of basketball operations Stu Jackson.
>>> Chris Forsberg covers? the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com._Follow him on
>>> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 01:15:53 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:15:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bill Simmon's book
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W6E586EA4FB0E2291F2939A5640@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <553726.22953.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Did he include any of his old Boston Sports Guy columns? ?He had some great ones, like about Antoine and his posse in the stands - classic!

Ellie
PS - McHale
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
To: jozersky at optonline.net, "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:07 PM


Aslong as we are on this subject, has anyone read Bill Simmons new book, "The book of Basketball"? I just finished it and I highly recommend it. Not only is there a whole chapter debating Russ vs Wilt, but he rates the top 96 players of all time and dedicates extended sections to each player explaining why he placed them where he did. I thought of it reading this KG vs Duncan vs McHale thread.

 


Anyways, I really can't recommend the book enough.
 
> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> From: jozersky at optonline.net
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:54:27 +0000




      

From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 21 01:21:43 2010
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:21:43 -0500
Subject: Bill Simmon's book
In-Reply-To: <553726.22953.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY111-W6E586EA4FB0E2291F2939A5640@phx.gbl>,
	<553726.22953.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W74CE03136CDE8173D8A6DA5630@phx.gbl>


He did have a few snippets here and there from his old website. It was just such a good book for anyone interested in the history of the NBA and figuring out who the best players were beyond just statistics. Really... anyone who is a basketball fan is doing themself a disservice not to read this book. I really can't state that strongly enough.
 
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:15:53 -0800
> From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com
> Subject: Bill Simmon's book
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> Did he include any of his old Boston Sports Guy columns?  He had some great ones, like about Antoine and his posse in the stands - classic!
> 
> Ellie
> PS - McHale
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> To: jozersky at optonline.net, "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:07 PM
> 
> 
> Aslong as we are on this subject, has anyone read Bill Simmons new book, "The book of Basketball"? I just finished it and I highly recommend it. Not only is there a whole chapter debating Russ vs Wilt, but he rates the top 96 players of all time and dedicates extended sections to each player explaining why he placed them where he did. I thought of it reading this KG vs Duncan vs McHale thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, I really can't recommend the book enough.
> 
> > Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > From: jozersky at optonline.net
> > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:54:27 +0000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 03:33:44 2010
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:33:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ray, stick a fork in me ... 
Message-ID: <767959.87902.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>




      


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 08:58:49 2010
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:58:49 +0100
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <1627155852-1264038914-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-134279434-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49> 
	<777855.85899.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<56a297001001201417p585abde2ub2e29fb733928528@mail.gmail.com> 
	<567434237-1264028119-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1055622849-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<56a297001001201508o95fc9eatfd9a295bd7da8a89@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1871762574-1264029831-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1616322835-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<56a297001001201547p61494f9fyf1f11828779cf7b5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1627155852-1264038914-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-134279434-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <56a297001001210058n14b4eac3w876f38be297ec0ef@mail.gmail.com>

Duncan is certainly a better rebounder than Wallace, but people forget
just how talented Wallace is. Nobody, I mean nobody, has/had Wallace's
combination of size, offensive skills, coordination or ability to run
the floor when he came to UNC. He was also a track star and high
jumper, he ran a 4.5 40(Lebron is a 4.4). Malone doesn't even enter
the discussion. We're arguing about *talent* not achievement.


On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:54 AM,  <jozersky at optonline.net> wrote:
> Can someone else rally round and support me here? Tim Duncan outclasses this guy in every way: low post, high post, rebounding, running....and what about the real prodigies like Lebron and Malone?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:47:52
> To: <jozersky at optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>
> Derrick Coleman is a better comparison, but yes Wallace does/did have
> more talent than Duncan/KG. Physically KG has tiny hands and a much
> thinner frame than Wallace. He doesn't have the post game or shooting
> range either. He just has 100x more desire and willpower. Duncan's
> physically the opposite, stronger, bigger frame and is far better at
> utilizing his skills down low, but still nowhere near the power that
> 'sheed could be if he took 100% advantage of his talents. Again,
> Duncan has 100x more desire and willpower(not to mention
> professionalism) than 'sheed.
>
> Wallace is a supreme waste of talent. That doesn't mean he doesn't have it.
>
> That's been the most frustrating part of this season for me. I was
> hoping that KG would light a fire under wallace and make him play up
> to his potential in the twilight of his career. He hasn't and he's
> dragging them team down.
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:23 AM, ?<jozersky at optonline.net> wrote:
>> No, he doesn't have more talent than Tim Duncan. Or KG. Or any of them. He is a gifted, versatile forward with a great all around offensive game and good length. Derrick Coleman had more innate talent, and Bernard king and Dr j. sheed never had any all-league skill.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:08:06
>> To: <jozersky at optonline.net>; The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
>> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>
>> Sheed has/had more talent than all of them. This is before he looked
>> like a sausage with stick arms of course.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM, ?<jozersky at optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Let's not get carried away. Kg is a much better player, and Duncan is better than kg. Mchale is better and pettit and Karl Malone too. Plus many others.
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:17:56
>>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>
>>> The problem is that 'Sheed doesn't kiss referee butt. He's the guy
>>> who's always right at the wrong time. In essence, 'Sheed is the guy
>>> with CEO level talent and intern level EQ. He could have been the no.
>>> 1 power forward in the *history* of the NBA. I love him, but he drives
>>> me crazy with his antics.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> And I agree w/you. ?And I'm glad Wallace speaks out. ?If everybody just accepts that kind of officiating, it's never going to change.
>>>> Ellie
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
>>>> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>>>> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Wallace.? Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.? Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.? Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.? The officials hate to hear the truth.? Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
>>>> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>>>>> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
>>>>> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By Chris Forsberg
>>>>> ESPNBoston.com
>>>>>
>>>>> The NBA fined_Boston Celtics_
>>>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)? forward_Rasheed Wallace_
>>>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)? $35,000 for publicly criticizing game? officials
>>>>> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the_Dallas Mavericks_
>>>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) .
>>>>> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_
>>>>> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a
>>>>> whole lot of? [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which
>>>>> foul trouble? limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried
>>>>> about it. We'll? see them again."
>>>>> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with
>>>>> four? fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace
>>>>> added,? "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was,
>>>>> there was so? many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it."
>>>>> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the
>>>>> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November.
>>>>> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice
>>>>> president? of basketball operations Stu Jackson.
>>>>> Chris Forsberg covers? the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com._Follow him on
>>>>> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>>
>


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jan 21 11:45:10 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:45:10 -0500
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49>
References: <201001202048.o0KKmQ9I018622@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
	<20100120165348.NAOHJ.26403.imail@eastrmwml49>
Message-ID: <201001211145.o0LBjCWQ026839@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Yes, the officiating in the NBA is the way it is because that's the way Stern wants it. He wants the stars given preferential treatment. Unfortunately the NFL is moving in the same direction with protecting the QBs and WRs to the detriment of defense. In truth though, the real blame falls to the fans - they want it that way too. They want LeBron and Kobe to be treated that way so they can dunk more, get more points, make fantasy stats look huge...the fans by and large have forgotten that defense is an equally vital part of the game. That everyone should be called to the same level of contact for a foul or steps for a travel (# of steps for a travel - even that right there is bogus).

Of all the major sports I think basketball is actually the easiest to officiate (try calling balls and strikes with guys throwing 100 mph or determining holding in the NFL), but the NBA makes it look like particle physics.

-----Original Message-----
From: davidp4660 at cox.net [mailto:davidp4660 at cox.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:54 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Cc: Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'

I agree with Wallace.  Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.  Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.  Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.  The officials hate to hear the truth.  Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
> 
> I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
> 
> BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
> 
> Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> 
>  
> Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
>  
> 
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
> 
> The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials 
> following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
> "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
> whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
> foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
> about it. We'll  see them again." 
> The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
> four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
> added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
> there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
> Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the  
> officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
> Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
> president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
> Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jan 21 14:46:38 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:46:38 -0500
Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
In-Reply-To: <20100121094126.AHM2M.69653.imail@eastrmwml42>
References: <201001211145.o0LBjCWQ026840@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<20100121094126.AHM2M.69653.imail@eastrmwml42>
Message-ID: <201001211446.o0LEkfI2020724@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

I disagree a bit (whilst in agreement with the other 99% you said) - I think Brady and Manning especially are given special QB treatment; same with Fitzgerald and Vincent Jackson (WRs) versus say how TO and Moss are. 

Just more of the "star obsessed" culture. Rooting for a "team" is dead in the eyes of the league management. The name on the back of the jersey in fact IS more important than the name on the front if you look at how the leagues are marketed and officiated.


-----Original Message-----
From: davidp4660 at cox.net [mailto:davidp4660 at cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'

The difference in the NFL going in the same direction is that they are protecting all quarterbacks and WRs.  In the NBA, it's certain centers, certain pgs, certain 2gs., etc.  And the NFL doesn't blatantly show it's disdain for a select few, while in the NBA, it's obvious that players like Wallace, Perkins, Iverson, etc. will get screwed.  The NBA is in a league of it's own when it comes to poor officiating.  Take 4 steps instead of 3 and it's no problem.  God forbid Perk moves his pivot foot a milimeter, and it's traveling.  Defensive 3 seconds is called far more than offensive three seconds.  I could go on, but most people realize that this has been going on far too long, without any poitive changes.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Yes, the officiating in the NBA is the way it is because that's the way Stern wants it. He wants the stars given preferential treatment. Unfortunately the NFL is moving in the same direction with protecting the QBs and WRs to the detriment of defense. In truth though, the real blame falls to the fans - they want it that way too. They want LeBron and Kobe to be treated that way so they can dunk more, get more points, make fantasy stats look huge...the fans by and large have forgotten that defense is an equally vital part of the game. That everyone should be called to the same level of contact for a foul or steps for a travel (# of steps for a travel - even that right there is bogus).
> 
> Of all the major sports I think basketball is actually the easiest to officiate (try calling balls and strikes with guys throwing 100 mph or determining holding in the NFL), but the NBA makes it look like particle physics.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net [mailto:davidp4660 at cox.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:54 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Cc: Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
> Subject: RE: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> 
> I agree with Wallace.  Officiating in the NBA is worse than any of the major sports.  Too many coddeld players, and too many with bull eyes on their backs.  Wallace, obviously falls in the latter.  The officials hate to hear the truth.  Just ask Mark Cuban (even though it was his team that Wallace made the remarks about).
> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> > Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Sheed Wallace gets fined for making comments about the officials.
> > 
> > I think we kinda knew this when we signed him.
> > 
> > BTW random rant - are fines for ripping officials necessary? I guess it's sort of analogous to "ripping middle management" in a company - you can, but you'd likely get either fired or ostracized/marginalized as a worker. I guess the media access makes it worse in the NBA's eyes too.
> > 
> > Still I think it's an inherent part of the game - shooting, dribbling, passing, and complaining about the refs.
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:37 PM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> > 
> >  
> > Wallace: 'So many bogus [calls]'
> >  
> > 
> > By Chris Forsberg
> > ESPNBoston.com
> > 
> > The NBA fined _Boston Celtics_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  forward _Rasheed Wallace_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  $35,000 for publicly criticizing game  officials 
> > following Mondays 99-90 loss to the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) . 
> > "[The officials] don't like tough defense on [_Dirk Nowitzki_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609) ], so, of course, I get a 
> > whole lot of  [expletive] calls," Wallace said after Monday's game in which 
> > foul trouble  limited his minutes. "That's how the story goes, I'm not worried 
> > about it. We'll  see them again." 
> > The Mavericks made a late third-quarter run with Wallace sidelined with 
> > four  fouls. Asked if he thought that was the difference in the game, Wallace 
> > added,  "Actually, I honestly can't remember which one the fourth foul was, 
> > there was so  many bogus [calls], but I'm not worried about it." 
> > Wallace was fined $30,000 earlier this season for critical comments on the  
> > officiating after Boston's 116-103 victory over Toronto in November. 
> > Wallace's latest fine was announced Wednesday by NBA executive vice 
> > president  of basketball operations Stu Jackson. 
> > Chris Forsberg covers  the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
> > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 15:00:20 2010
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:00:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: referee rule idea
Message-ID: <592079.21602.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

How about a new ref rule that they can't call a foul on a player from behind (player has their back to ref)? ? This would eliminate prob. 50% of bogus calls. ?If they need to add a 4th ref, so be it - they get better coverage and improve integrity of the game.
last night, refs treated Perk like he was back in his rookie season.
Ellie


      

From bdodgers at aol.com  Thu Jan 21 15:24:42 2010
From: bdodgers at aol.com (bdodgers at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:24:42 EST
Subject: Davis might face disciplinary action
Message-ID: <5c59.555af715.3889cbba@aol.com>

 
Davis might face disciplinary action
 

By Chris Forsberg
ESPNBoston.com

_Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  
forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan during 
Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of Auburn Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc 
Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)  called 
"unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension. 
"Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible  
disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, but that's  
part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people quiet." 
The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat boy" 
and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on both the 
Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the fan, 
according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with NBA 
security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been warned 
earlier about his  heckling of Davis. 
"We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's tough  
when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be stronger 
than  that." 
Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court 
altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and missing the first 27 
games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine incurred by 
Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that resulted 
in the coach's  ejection. 
Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on Thursday 
 morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the 
maturity  department. 
"I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but it is 
a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to grow up." 
 (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)   
Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming Wednesday 
 night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.  
"It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the people  
around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a player 
points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that person will 
be  removed." 
Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in given 
 the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of 
physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, he was 
disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.  
"I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing what you  
hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and let them 
deal  with it."  
Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier this 
week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned his cheek -- 
if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?" 
Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .

From jozersky at optonline.net  Thu Jan 21 15:29:01 2010
From: jozersky at optonline.net (Josh Ozersky)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:29:01 -0500
Subject: referee rule idea
In-Reply-To: <592079.21602.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <592079.21602.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2EA55BE7BDB74348B52F5AAE6DBECD87@JoshPC>

how about get some refs under 60? that was one of bill simmons'
best points. Amazing how the NBA polices its players misbehavior
with such draconian rigor but lets its officials, who truly guard the
integrity of the game, be utterly incompetent and corrupt. Stern is
totally blind to the damage he's done to his own league.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ellie Cutler" <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:00 AM
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: referee rule idea

> How about a new ref rule that they can't call a foul on a player from 
> behind (player has their back to ref)?   This would eliminate prob. 50% of 
> bogus calls.  If they need to add a 4th ref, so be it - they get better 
> coverage and improve integrity of the game.
> last night, refs treated Perk like he was back in his rookie season.
> Ellie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics 


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 16:15:10 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:15:10 -0500
Subject: referee rule idea
In-Reply-To: <2EA55BE7BDB74348B52F5AAE6DBECD87@JoshPC>
Message-ID: <20100121111510.9EAWW.71365.imail@eastrmwml48>

You mean sort of like having term limits on senate seats? :-)  It does seem like there are some crochety old geezers still with whistles in their mouths, but no air in the lungs, or in some cases too much.
---- Josh Ozersky <jozersky at optonline.net> wrote: 
> how about get some refs under 60? that was one of bill simmons'
> best points. Amazing how the NBA polices its players misbehavior
> with such draconian rigor but lets its officials, who truly guard the
> integrity of the game, be utterly incompetent and corrupt. Stern is
> totally blind to the damage he's done to his own league.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Ellie Cutler" <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:00 AM
> To: <celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: referee rule idea
> 
> > How about a new ref rule that they can't call a foul on a player from 
> > behind (player has their back to ref)?   This would eliminate prob. 50% of 
> > bogus calls.  If they need to add a 4th ref, so be it - they get better 
> > coverage and improve integrity of the game.
> > last night, refs treated Perk like he was back in his rookie season.
> > Ellie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 16:17:37 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:17:37 -0500
Subject: Davis might face disciplinary action
In-Reply-To: <5c59.555af715.3889cbba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100121111737.7C17C.71425.imail@eastrmwml48>

That's bush league.  Fine the heckler, too.  The guy is lucky that Davis didn't go after him.  Artest would have (in his earlier days).  With all the money that the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote: 
>  
> Davis might face disciplinary action
>  
> 
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
> 
> _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  
> forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan during 
> Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of Auburn Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc 
> Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)  called 
> "unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension. 
> "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible  
> disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, but that's  
> part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people quiet." 
> The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat boy" 
> and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on both the 
> Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the fan, 
> according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with NBA 
> security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been warned 
> earlier about his  heckling of Davis. 
> "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's tough  
> when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be stronger 
> than  that." 
> Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court 
> altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and missing the first 27 
> games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine incurred by 
> Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that resulted 
> in the coach's  ejection. 
> Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on Thursday 
>  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the 
> maturity  department. 
> "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but it is 
> a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_ 
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to grow up." 
>  (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)   
> Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming Wednesday 
>  night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.  
> "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the people  
> around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a player 
> points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that person will 
> be  removed." 
> Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in given 
>  the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of 
> physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, he was 
> disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.  
> "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing what you  
> hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and let them 
> deal  with it."  
> Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier this 
> week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned his cheek -- 
> if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?" 
> Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu Jan 21 16:30:13 2010
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:30:13 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <20100121111737.7C17C.71425.imail@eastrmwml48>
Message-ID: <8CC68CE24162653-223C-59CD@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>

I agree.  These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the 
arena.  I don't care what they pay for the seats.  Of course, I don't 
know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a 
single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.

Interesting stat last night:  last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I 
guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year 
they're 5-6.

We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that 
injuries would make or break the season.  That's true so far.  We're 
lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.   
Thumbs get fixed.  Knees are a different story.  Let's see who's 
walking in April.

A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one 
trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.


-----Original Message-----
From: davidp4660 at cox.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action


That's bush league.  Fine the heckler, too.  The guy is lucky that 
Davis didn't
go after him.  Artest would have (in his earlier days).  With all the 
money that
the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
>
> Davis might face disciplinary action
>
>
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
>
> _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan 
during
> Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of 
Auburn
Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc
> Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) 
 called
> "unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension.
> "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, 
but that's

> part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people 
quiet."
> The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat 
boy"
> and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on 
both the
> Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the 
fan,
> according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with 
NBA
> security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been 
warned
> earlier about his  heckling of Davis.
> "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
tough
> when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be 
stronger
> than  that."
> Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and 
missing the
first 27
> games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine 
incurred by
> Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that 
resulted
> in the coach's  ejection.
> Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on 
Thursday
>  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> maturity  department.
> "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but 
it is
> a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to 
grow
up."
>  (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming 
Wednesday
>  night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the 
people
> around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a 
player
> points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that 
person
will
> be  removed."
> Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in 
given
>  the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, 
he was
> disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.
> "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing 
what you
> hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and 
let them
> deal  with it."
> Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier 
this
> week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned 
his cheek
--
> if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him 
on
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

  


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 16:40:51 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:40:51 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <8CC68CE24162653-223C-59CD@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100121114051.QFASY.71884.imail@eastrmwml48>

I think the guy said to him "Fat boy, lose some weight".  Maybe a few other things, but that was what I read. Who knows if this heckler was riding him more than just once.  It may not be as bad as assaulting someone, but a guy who has had a history of weight problems doesn't need to be reminded of it.  And also, when you are losing, you are stressed out from that alone, so it only magnifies it more.  Sometimes the high road should be bypassed for a detour and short cut.
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> I agree.  These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the 
> arena.  I don't care what they pay for the seats.  Of course, I don't 
> know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a 
> single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.
> 
> Interesting stat last night:  last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I 
> guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year 
> they're 5-6.
> 
> We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that 
> injuries would make or break the season.  That's true so far.  We're 
> lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.   
> Thumbs get fixed.  Knees are a different story.  Let's see who's 
> walking in April.
> 
> A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one 
> trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
> 
> 
> That's bush league.  Fine the heckler, too.  The guy is lucky that 
> Davis didn't
> go after him.  Artest would have (in his earlier days).  With all the 
> money that
> the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> ---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Davis might face disciplinary action
> >
> >
> > By Chris Forsberg
> > ESPNBoston.com
> >
> > _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> > forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan 
> during
> > Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of 
> Auburn
> Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc
> > Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) 
>  called
> > "unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension.
> > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, 
> but that's
> 
> > part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people 
> quiet."
> > The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat 
> boy"
> > and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on 
> both the
> > Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the 
> fan,
> > according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with 
> NBA
> > security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been 
> warned
> > earlier about his  heckling of Davis.
> > "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
> tough
> > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be 
> stronger
> > than  that."
> > Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> > altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and 
> missing the
> first 27
> > games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine 
> incurred by
> > Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that 
> resulted
> > in the coach's  ejection.
> > Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on 
> Thursday
> >  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> > maturity  department.
> > "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but 
> it is
> > a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to 
> grow
> up."
> >  (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming 
> Wednesday
> >  night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the 
> people
> > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a 
> player
> > points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that 
> person
> will
> > be  removed."
> > Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in 
> given
> >  the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> > physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, 
> he was
> > disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.
> > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing 
> what you
> > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and 
> let them
> > deal  with it."
> > Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier 
> this
> > week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned 
> his cheek
> --
> > if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> > Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him 
> on
> > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 21 17:37:43 2010
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:37:43 -0500
Subject: Davis might face disciplinary action
In-Reply-To: <20100121111737.7C17C.71425.imail@eastrmwml48>
References: <5c59.555af715.3889cbba@aol.com>,
	<20100121111737.7C17C.71425.imail@eastrmwml48>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W1015528CA73D02E7D10CDFA5630@phx.gbl>


I missed the game. What did Glen say to the fan?
 
> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:17:37 -0500
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
> CC: bdodgers at aol.com
> 
> That's bush league. Fine the heckler, too. The guy is lucky that Davis didn't go after him. Artest would have (in his earlier days). With all the money that the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> ---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote: 
> > 
> > Davis might face disciplinary action
> > 
> > 
> > By Chris Forsberg
> > ESPNBoston.com
> > 
> > _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) 
> > forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an obscenity at a heckling fan during 
> > Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) at The Palace of Auburn Hills, a reaction coach _Doc 
> > Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) called 
> > "unacceptable" and said might result in a fine or suspension. 
> > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible 
> > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, but that's 
> > part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people quiet." 
> > The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat boy" 
> > and told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on both the 
> > Boston radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the fan, 
> > according to a report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with NBA 
> > security. The Globe also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been warned 
> > earlier about his heckling of Davis. 
> > "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's tough 
> > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be stronger 
> > than that." 
> > Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court 
> > altercation that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and missing the first 27 
> > games of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine incurred by 
> > Rivers for a flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that resulted 
> > in the coach's ejection. 
> > Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on Thursday 
> > morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the 
> > maturity department. 
> > "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis' maturity], but it is 
> > a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_ 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) has to grow up." 
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index) 
> > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming Wednesday 
> > night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable. 
> > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the people 
> > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a player 
> > points or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that person will 
> > be removed." 
> > Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in given 
> > the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of 
> > physical confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, he was 
> > disappointed Davis got verbally involved. 
> > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing what you 
> > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and let them 
> > deal with it." 
> > Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier this 
> > week, noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned his cheek -- 
> > if he can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?" 
> > Chris Forsberg covers the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on 
> > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/

From strauss at email.wcu.edu  Thu Jan 21 17:45:47 2010
From: strauss at email.wcu.edu (Bob Strauss)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:45:47 -0500
Subject: TStar culture
In-Reply-To: <mailman.102.1264095481.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.102.1264095481.3289.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <BFE795E85A3D0D46B02292AEE4ED026A010CE665F2F7@EXV01.wcu.edu>

"Just more of the "star obsessed" culture. Rooting for a "team" is dead in the eyes of the league management. The name on the back of the jersey in fact IS more important than the name on the front if you look at how the leagues are marketed and officiated."	

This is why I hate today's NBA: Stern seemed to help build this up, where "the stars who sell" are more important than the team game. It's no longer basketball.

Bob
__________________________________________

Bob Strauss                               Cataloger
Hunter Library                           Western Carolina U.
strauss at email.wcu.edu            Now on Facebook!
Phone : (828) 227-3400



From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 17:59:29 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:59:29 -0500
Subject: TStar culture
In-Reply-To: <BFE795E85A3D0D46B02292AEE4ED026A010CE665F2F7@EXV01.wcu.edu>
Message-ID: <20100121125929.3EZ3E.73317.imail@eastrmwml48>

I'm quickly starting to withdraw from watching the NBA, with the exception of the C's, who have always been my team.  Once my team is elimintated, I don't watch any playoff games, other than the one's my team is in.  I am just a Celtics fan, and definitely not an NBA fan.  And, my reasons are exactly due to what you stated below.  Ironic how Dave Gavitt once said some players are more concerned about the name on the back of the jerseys, than on the front.  As you say, the NBA believes in the same philosophy.
---- Bob Strauss <strauss at email.wcu.edu> wrote: 
> "Just more of the "star obsessed" culture. Rooting for a "team" is dead in the eyes of the league management. The name on the back of the jersey in fact IS more important than the name on the front if you look at how the leagues are marketed and officiated."	
> 
> This is why I hate today's NBA: Stern seemed to help build this up, where "the stars who sell" are more important than the team game. It's no longer basketball.
> 
> Bob
> __________________________________________
> 
> Bob Strauss                               Cataloger
> Hunter Library                           Western Carolina U.
> strauss at email.wcu.edu            Now on Facebook!
> Phone : (828) 227-3400
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jan 21 18:16:46 2010
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:16:46 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <8CC68CE24162653-223C-59CD@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20100121111737.7C17C.71425.imail@eastrmwml48>
	<8CC68CE24162653-223C-59CD@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <201001211816.o0LIGo3E011662@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

While I agree the professional hecklers should be tossed; I disagree that heckling condones retaliatory violence from an NBA player. If Baby wants to yell "bleep you" and take the fine, I'm okay with it except when it's me and my seven year old at the game within earshot (wait, HA a family at a basketball game near the court with these seat prices...what am I thinking). I know society has decided that vulgarity is fine regardless of venue these days; but I'll still cling to my notion of civil society and manners.

Baby does have to be the bigger man. I guarantee if Baby or Rivers had said - 'remove that man' to a court official - it would have happened. I've seen it happen for less. Even away teams carry tremendous clout in regards to their immediate environment (in around their bench) especially after the Detroit melee. 



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of douglas342 at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:30 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: Davis, thoughts

I agree.  These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the 
arena.  I don't care what they pay for the seats.  Of course, I don't 
know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a 
single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.

Interesting stat last night:  last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I 
guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year 
they're 5-6.

We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that 
injuries would make or break the season.  That's true so far.  We're 
lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.   
Thumbs get fixed.  Knees are a different story.  Let's see who's 
walking in April.

A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one 
trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.


-----Original Message-----
From: davidp4660 at cox.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action


That's bush league.  Fine the heckler, too.  The guy is lucky that 
Davis didn't
go after him.  Artest would have (in his earlier days).  With all the 
money that
the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
>
> Davis might face disciplinary action
>
>
> By Chris Forsberg
> ESPNBoston.com
>
> _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan 
during
> Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of 
Auburn
Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc
> Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) 
 called
> "unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension.
> "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, 
but that's

> part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people 
quiet."
> The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat 
boy"
> and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on 
both the
> Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the 
fan,
> according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with 
NBA
> security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been 
warned
> earlier about his  heckling of Davis.
> "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
tough
> when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be 
stronger
> than  that."
> Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and 
missing the
first 27
> games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine 
incurred by
> Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that 
resulted
> in the coach's  ejection.
> Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on 
Thursday
>  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> maturity  department.
> "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but 
it is
> a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to 
grow
up."
>  (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming 
Wednesday
>  night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the 
people
> around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a 
player
> points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that 
person
will
> be  removed."
> Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in 
given
>  the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, 
he was
> disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.
> "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing 
what you
> hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and 
let them
> deal  with it."
> Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier 
this
> week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned 
his cheek
--
> if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him 
on
> Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

  

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 18:37:54 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:37:54 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <201001211816.o0LIGo3E011662@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20100121133754.PX2OQ.73858.imail@eastrmwml48>

Cussing isn't retaliatory violence.  It's not proper, but not violence.  I'm not saying what Baby said is the proper way to handle it, but given what was said, and when it was said, most people would have a hard time not retaliating.  Maybe you can handle insults, as I often have in the past, but an occasional four letter word is not that bad and some people will tell you, is a stress reliever, especially since  someone else started it.  Turning the other cheek is all fine and dandy, but there are times when you have to do what you have to do.  Baby did what he felt he had to do, and aside from the fine and possible suspension, probably felt better when he said it.  I really don't blame him for defending himself with words, albeit not choice words. I'd rather he not go and beat the crap out of the guy (and I know people who would have easily gone after the guy physically).  I think had iat not been heard on the air, it would have been much ado about nothing.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> While I agree the professional hecklers should be tossed; I disagree that heckling condones retaliatory violence from an NBA player. If Baby wants to yell "bleep you" and take the fine, I'm okay with it except when it's me and my seven year old at the game within earshot (wait, HA a family at a basketball game near the court with these seat prices...what am I thinking). I know society has decided that vulgarity is fine regardless of venue these days; but I'll still cling to my notion of civil society and manners.
> 
> Baby does have to be the bigger man. I guarantee if Baby or Rivers had said - 'remove that man' to a court official - it would have happened. I've seen it happen for less. Even away teams carry tremendous clout in regards to their immediate environment (in around their bench) especially after the Detroit melee. 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:30 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Davis, thoughts
> 
> I agree.  These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the 
> arena.  I don't care what they pay for the seats.  Of course, I don't 
> know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a 
> single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.
> 
> Interesting stat last night:  last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I 
> guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year 
> they're 5-6.
> 
> We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that 
> injuries would make or break the season.  That's true so far.  We're 
> lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.   
> Thumbs get fixed.  Knees are a different story.  Let's see who's 
> walking in April.
> 
> A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one 
> trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
> 
> 
> That's bush league.  Fine the heckler, too.  The guy is lucky that 
> Davis didn't
> go after him.  Artest would have (in his earlier days).  With all the 
> money that
> the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> ---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Davis might face disciplinary action
> >
> >
> > By Chris Forsberg
> > ESPNBoston.com
> >
> > _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> > forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an  obscenity at a heckling fan 
> during
> > Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  at The Palace of 
> Auburn
> Hills, a  reaction coach _Doc
> > Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) 
>  called
> > "unacceptable" and said might result  in a fine or suspension.
> > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names, 
> but that's
> 
> > part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people 
> quiet."
> > The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat 
> boy"
> > and  told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on 
> both the
> > Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the 
> fan,
> > according to a  report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with 
> NBA
> > security. The Globe  also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been 
> warned
> > earlier about his  heckling of Davis.
> > "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
> tough
> > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be 
> stronger
> > than  that."
> > Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> > altercation  that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and 
> missing the
> first 27
> > games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine 
> incurred by
> > Rivers for a  flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that 
> resulted
> > in the coach's  ejection.
> > Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on 
> Thursday
> >  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> > maturity  department.
> > "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis'  maturity], but 
> it is
> > a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has to 
> grow
> up."
> >  (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming 
> Wednesday
> >  night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the 
> people
> > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a 
> player
> > points  or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that 
> person
> will
> > be  removed."
> > Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in 
> given
> >  the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> > physical  confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace, 
> he was
> > disappointed  Davis got verbally involved.
> > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing 
> what you
> > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and 
> let them
> > deal  with it."
> > Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier 
> this
> > week,  noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned 
> his cheek
> --
> > if he  can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> > Chris Forsberg covers  the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him 
> on
> > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Thu Jan 21 19:24:12 2010
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:24:12 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <20100121133754.PX2OQ.73858.imail@eastrmwml48>
Message-ID: <EFA7AE54.B842.4087.883C.999B817ED199@aol.com>

Come on guys. ?Big Baby is a big jerk plain and simple so stop protecting him.?
You could hear his profanities?and see Gorman attempting to stop him. Just what the Celts 
needed to improve?their team ?image. 

I mentioned before here that?our team is pretty much despised by other teams, refs, and fans. 
And with good?reason. ?Yet we continue to make excuses for our own thugs.

If Doc is down on Baby, so am I. ? Bet he's down on alot of our jerky players.
We're now on a 55-27 path and getting worse by the week with or without Garnett.

Sorry for venting, but I'm bummed with this team this year. ?





On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:37:54 PM, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote:

From:   davidp4660 at cox.net
Subject:    RE: Davis, thoughts
Date:   January 21, 2010 1:37:54 PM EST
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Cussing isn't retaliatory violence. It's not proper, but not violence. I'm not saying what Baby said is the proper way to handle it, but given what was said, and when it was said, most people would have a hard time not retaliating. Maybe you can handle insults, as I often have in the past, but an occasional four letter word is not that bad and some people will tell you, is a stress reliever, especially since someone else started it. Turning the other cheek is all fine and dandy, but there are times when you have to do what you have to do. Baby did what he felt he had to do, and aside from the fine and possible suspension, probably felt better when he said it. I really don't blame him for defending himself with words, albeit not choice words. I'd rather he not go and beat the crap out of the guy (and I know people who would have easily gone after the guy physically). I think had iat not been heard on the air, it would have been much ado about nothing.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:?
> While I agree the professional hecklers should be tossed; I disagree that heckling condones retaliatory violence from an NBA player. If Baby wants to yell "bleep you" and take the fine, I'm okay with it except when it's me and my seven year old at the game within earshot (wait, HA a family at a basketball game near the court with these seat prices...what am I thinking). I know society has decided that vulgarity is fine regardless of venue these days; but I'll still cling to my notion of civil society and manners.
>?
> Baby does have to be the bigger man. I guarantee if Baby or Rivers had said - 'remove that man' to a court official - it would have happened. I've seen it happen for less. Even away teams carry tremendous clout in regards to their immediate environment (in around their bench) especially after the Detroit melee.
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:30 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Davis, thoughts
>?
> I agree. These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the?
> arena. I don't care what they pay for the seats. Of course, I don't?
> know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a?
> single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.
>?
> Interesting stat last night: last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I?
> guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year?
> they're 5-6.
>?
> We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that?
> injuries would make or break the season. That's true so far. We're?
> lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.?
> Thumbs get fixed. Knees are a different story. Let's see who's?
> walking in April.
>?
> A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one?
> trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
> Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
>?
>?
> That's bush league. Fine the heckler, too. The guy is lucky that?
> Davis didn't
> go after him. Artest would have (in his earlier days). With all the?
> money that
> the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> ---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Davis might face disciplinary action
> >
> >
> > By Chris Forsberg
> > ESPNBoston.com
> >
> > _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> > forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an obscenity at a heckling fan?
> during
> > Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) at The Palace of?
> Auburn
> Hills, a reaction coach _Doc
> > Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)?
> called
> > "unacceptable" and said might result in a fine or suspension.
> > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names,?
> but that's
>?
> > part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people?
> quiet."
> > The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat?
> boy"
> > and told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on?
> both the
> > Boston radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the?
> fan,
> > according to a report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with?
> NBA
> > security. The Globe also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been?
> warned
> > earlier about his heckling of Davis.
> > "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's?
> tough
> > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be?
> stronger
> > than that."
> > Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> > altercation that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and?
> missing the
> first 27
> > games of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine?
> incurred by
> > Rivers for a flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that?
> resulted
> > in the coach's ejection.
> > Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on?
> Thursday
> > morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> > maturity department.
> > "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis' maturity], but?
> it is
> > a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) has to?
> grow
> up."
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming?
> Wednesday
> > night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the?
> people
> > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a?
> player
> > points or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that?
> person
> will
> > be removed."
> > Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in?
> given
> > the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> > physical confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace,?
> he was
> > disappointed Davis got verbally involved.
> > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing?
> what you
> > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and?
> let them
> > deal with it."
> > Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier?
> this
> > week, noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned?
> his cheek
> --
> > if he can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> > Chris Forsberg covers the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him?
> on
> > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Jan 21 21:06:24 2010
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:06:24 -0500
Subject: Davis, thoughts
In-Reply-To: <EFA7AE54.B842.4087.883C.999B817ED199@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100121160624.HUNPE.75920.imail@eastrmwml37>

Too bad the fan didn't say it to him outside somewhere.  Then Baby would have squashed the guy like a bug.  The fan should have been ejected.  I think what Baby said was pretty funny, and we got to hear it.  May not have been appropriate to say on the air, but I've seen and heard worse on TV, so it's no big deal.   At least he didn't use violence and cold cock the punk.  I bet Artest would have gone after the guy physically, as would Charles Barkley.  Turning the other cheek, only to get it slapped doesn't always seem to be the best response.  Baby got fined, so it's over and no big deal.   As for the team in general, I'm bummed with the depleted lineup and excuses for the loses, and most of all, Doc's refusal to play Giddens and/or Walker.  They can't do any worse, and would add some fresh legs to the lineup.  When Pierce and Allen (both) are having bad games, that's the time to go deeper into your bench, but Doc insists on keeping them on the pine.  No wonder we have no legs left in the 4th.  That  said, we aren't even half way through the season, nor 100% healthy.  A move (trade) or aquisition has to be made.
---- joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote: 
> Come on guys. ?Big Baby is a big jerk plain and simple so stop protecting him.?
> You could hear his profanities?and see Gorman attempting to stop him. Just what the Celts 
> needed to improve?their team ?image. 
> 
> I mentioned before here that?our team is pretty much despised by other teams, refs, and fans. 
> And with good?reason. ?Yet we continue to make excuses for our own thugs.
> 
> If Doc is down on Baby, so am I. ? Bet he's down on alot of our jerky players.
> We're now on a 55-27 path and getting worse by the week with or without Garnett.
> 
> Sorry for venting, but I'm bummed with this team this year. ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:37:54 PM, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote:
> 
> From:   davidp4660 at cox.net
> Subject:    RE: Davis, thoughts
> Date:   January 21, 2010 1:37:54 PM EST
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Cussing isn't retaliatory violence. It's not proper, but not violence. I'm not saying what Baby said is the proper way to handle it, but given what was said, and when it was said, most people would have a hard time not retaliating. Maybe you can handle insults, as I often have in the past, but an occasional four letter word is not that bad and some people will tell you, is a stress reliever, especially since someone else started it. Turning the other cheek is all fine and dandy, but there are times when you have to do what you have to do. Baby did what he felt he had to do, and aside from the fine and possible suspension, probably felt better when he said it. I really don't blame him for defending himself with words, albeit not choice words. I'd rather he not go and beat the crap out of the guy (and I know people who would have easily gone after the guy physically). I think had iat not been heard on the air, it would have been much ado about nothing.
> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:?
> > While I agree the professional hecklers should be tossed; I disagree that heckling condones retaliatory violence from an NBA player. If Baby wants to yell "bleep you" and take the fine, I'm okay with it except when it's me and my seven year old at the game within earshot (wait, HA a family at a basketball game near the court with these seat prices...what am I thinking). I know society has decided that vulgarity is fine regardless of venue these days; but I'll still cling to my notion of civil society and manners.
> >?
> > Baby does have to be the bigger man. I guarantee if Baby or Rivers had said - 'remove that man' to a court official - it would have happened. I've seen it happen for less. Even away teams carry tremendous clout in regards to their immediate environment (in around their bench) especially after the Detroit melee.
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of douglas342 at aol.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:30 AM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Re: Davis, thoughts
> >?
> > I agree. These "professional hecklers" should be thrown out of the?
> > arena. I don't care what they pay for the seats. Of course, I don't?
> > know what this guy said, but if I were the league, if it contained a?
> > single obscenity, I'd bounce his ass to Toledo.
> >?
> > Interesting stat last night: last year the Cs were 18-7 without KG (I?
> > guess regular season - don't know if it included playoffs); this year?
> > they're 5-6.
> >?
> > We all knew coming in to this year that this was an old team and that?
> > injuries would make or break the season. That's true so far. We're?
> > lucky in that the injuries haven't been "structural" except for KGs.?
> > Thumbs get fixed. Knees are a different story. Let's see who's?
> > walking in April.
> >?
> > A basketball court is 94' long, but every time I watch Ray Allen, one?
> > trip up and down the floor (188') seems to cover about 300'.
> >?
> >?
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: bdodgers at aol.com
> > Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am
> > Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
> >?
> >?
> > That's bush league. Fine the heckler, too. The guy is lucky that?
> > Davis didn't
> > go after him. Artest would have (in his earlier days). With all the?
> > money that
> > the NBA makes, they are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> > ---- bdodgers at aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Davis might face disciplinary action
> > >
> > >
> > > By Chris Forsberg
> > > ESPNBoston.com
> > >
> > > _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)
> > > forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis shouted an obscenity at a heckling fan?
> > during
> > > Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_
> > > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) at The Palace of?
> > Auburn
> > Hills, a reaction coach _Doc
> > > Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)?
> > called
> > > "unacceptable" and said might result in a fine or suspension.
> > > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible
> > > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me names,?
> > but that's
> >?
> > > part of the game. If you win the game, it keeps a lot of people?
> > quiet."
> > > The jeering fan near the Celtics' bench repeatedly called Davis "fat?
> > boy"
> > > and told him to lose some weight. Davis' response was audible on?
> > both the
> > > Boston radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the?
> > fan,
> > > according to a report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with?
> > NBA
> > > security. The Globe also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had been?
> > warned
> > > earlier about his heckling of Davis.
> > > "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's?
> > tough
> > > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be?
> > stronger
> > > than that."
> > > Davis was fined by the team earlier this season for an off-court
> > > altercation that ended with Davis fracturing his right thumb and?
> > missing the
> > first 27
> > > games of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine?
> > incurred by
> > > Rivers for a flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that?
> > resulted
> > > in the coach's ejection.
> > > Rivers said in an interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on?
> > Thursday
> > > morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the
> > > maturity department.
> > > "I don't think it's a huge step backwards [in Davis' maturity], but?
> > it is
> > > a step backwards," Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_
> > > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) has to?
> > grow
> > up."
> > > (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index)
> > > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming?
> > Wednesday
> > > night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.
> > > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the?
> > people
> > > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told WEEI. "If a?
> > player
> > > points or coach points to security, there's a very good chance that?
> > person
> > will
> > > be removed."
> > > Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in?
> > given
> > > the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort of
> > > physical confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The Palace,?
> > he was
> > > disappointed Davis got verbally involved.
> > > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's amazing?
> > what you
> > > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around, point to security and?
> > let them
> > > deal with it."
> > > Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier?
> > this
> > > week, noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he turned?
> > his cheek
> > --
> > > if he can do it, why can't we do it on a basketball court?"
> > > Chris Forsberg covers the Patriots for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him?
> > on
> > > Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From mafiaso316 at aol.com  Thu Jan 21 21:11:53 2010
From: mafiaso316 at aol.com (mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:11:53 EST
Subject: Davis might face disciplinary action
Message-ID: <11623.3d4b544f.388a1d19@aol.com>

I heard on the tv broadcast Su-k my D-ck, so I am wondering if that was  
what he said.
 
Paolo Dellasandro
 
 
In a message dated 1/21/2010 12:38:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
shizzjr at hotmail.com writes:


I  missed the game. What did Glen say to the fan?

> Date: Thu, 21 Jan  2010 11:17:37 -0500
> From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> To:  celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary  action
> CC: bdodgers at aol.com
> 
> That's bush league. Fine  the heckler, too. The guy is lucky that Davis 
didn't go after him. Artest  would have (in his earlier days). With all the 
money that the NBA makes, they  are certainly banking a lot of Celtics' money.
> ---- bdodgers at aol.com  wrote: 
> > 
> > Davis might face disciplinary  action
> > 
> > 
> > By Chris Forsberg
> >  ESPNBoston.com
> > 
> > _Boston Celtics_  (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) 
> > forward Glen  "Big Baby" Davis shouted an obscenity at a heckling fan 
during 
> >  Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit Pistons_ 
> >  (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) at The Palace of 
Auburn  Hills, a reaction coach _Doc 
> > Rivers_  (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) 
called 
>  > "unacceptable" and said might result in a fine or suspension. 
>  > "Not from me, but he might from the league," Rivers said of possible  
> > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost, people call me  names, 
but that's 
> > part of the game. If you win the game, it  keeps a lot of people 
quiet." 
> > The jeering fan near the Celtics'  bench repeatedly called Davis "fat 
boy" 
> > and told him to lose  some weight. Davis' response was audible on both 
the 
> > Boston  radio and television broadcasts of the game and prompted the 
fan, 
>  > according to a report in the Boston Globe, to file a complaint with 
NBA  
> > security. The Globe also reported that the fan, Scott Zack, had  been 
warned 
> > earlier about his heckling of Davis. 
> >  "We know what happened, and that's unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
tough  
> > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but you have to be  
stronger 
> > than that." 
> > Davis was fined by the team  earlier this season for an off-court 
> > altercation that ended with  Davis fracturing his right thumb and 
missing the first 27 
> > games  of the season. Davis also offered to pay part of a fine incurred 
by 
>  > Rivers for a flagrant foul call on Davis earlier this month that 
resulted  
> > in the coach's ejection. 
> > Rivers said in an  interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI on 
Thursday 
> >  morning that the 24-year-old Davis still had strides to make in the 
>  > maturity department. 
> > "I don't think it's a huge step  backwards [in Davis' maturity], but it 
is 
> > a step backwards,"  Rivers said. "_Glen Davis_ 
> >  (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) has to 
grow up."  
> > (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index) 
>  > Rivers admitted he didn't hear exactly what the fan was screaming  
Wednesday 
> > night, but felt a verbal confrontation was avoidable.  
> > "It's common sense, when a fan is yelling and it's offending the  
people 
> > around him, then the guy will be removed," Rivers told  WEEI. "If a 
player 
> > points or coach points to security, there's a  very good chance that 
person will 
> > be removed." 
> >  Rivers admitted that Detroit is one of the toughest arenas to play in 
given  
> > the crowd and, while he was glad it didn't escalate to any sort  of 
> > physical confrontation like the brawl that occurred at The  Palace, he 
was 
> > disappointed Davis got verbally involved.  
> > "I've heard some vile things to me and to players -- it's  amazing what 
you 
> > hear," said Rivers. "You should turn around,  point to security and let 
them 
> > deal with it." 
> >  Rivers then pointed to the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday earlier this 
 
> > week, noting: "This is what he heard and how many times he  turned his 
cheek -- 
> > if he can do it, why can't we do it on a  basketball court?" 
> > Chris Forsberg covers the Patriots for  ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on 
> > Twitter_  (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .
> >  _______________________________________________
> > The Boston  Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> >  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail:  Free, trusted and rich email  service.
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From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 21:35:14 2010
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:35:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Davis might face disciplinary action
In-Reply-To: <11623.3d4b544f.388a1d19@aol.com>
Message-ID: <75173.33338.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

This is a bunch of nothing.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 1/21/10, mafiaso316 at aol.com <mafiaso316 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: mafiaso316 at aol.com <mafiaso316 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary action
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 3:11 PM
> I heard on the tv broadcast Su-k my
> D-ck, so I am wondering if that was? 
> what he said.
>  
> Paolo Dellasandro
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/21/2010 12:38:32 P.M. Eastern Standard
> Time,? 
> shizzjr at hotmail.com
> writes:
> 
> 
> I? missed the game. What did Glen say to the fan?
> 
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jan? 2010 11:17:37 -0500
> > From: davidp4660 at cox.net
> > To:? celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Re: Davis might face disciplinary?
> action
> > CC: bdodgers at aol.com
> > 
> > That's bush league. Fine? the heckler, too. The
> guy is lucky that Davis 
> didn't go after him. Artest? would have (in his
> earlier days). With all the 
> money that the NBA makes, they? are certainly banking
> a lot of Celtics' money.
> > ---- bdodgers at aol.com?
> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Davis might face disciplinary? action
> > > 
> > > 
> > > By Chris Forsberg
> > >? ESPNBoston.com
> > > 
> > > _Boston Celtics_? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) 
> > > forward Glen? "Big Baby" Davis shouted an
> obscenity at a heckling fan 
> during 
> > >? Wednesday night's loss to the _Detroit
> Pistons_ 
> > >? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) at
> The Palace of 
> Auburn? Hills, a reaction coach _Doc 
> > > Rivers_? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)
> 
> called 
> >? > "unacceptable" and said might result in a
> fine or suspension. 
> >? > "Not from me, but he might from the
> league," Rivers said of possible? 
> > > disciplinary action. "I'm upset that we lost,
> people call me? names, 
> but that's 
> > > part of the game. If you win the game, it?
> keeps a lot of people 
> quiet." 
> > > The jeering fan near the Celtics'? bench
> repeatedly called Davis "fat 
> boy" 
> > > and told him to lose? some weight. Davis'
> response was audible on both 
> the 
> > > Boston? radio and television broadcasts of
> the game and prompted the 
> fan, 
> >? > according to a report in the Boston Globe,
> to file a complaint with 
> NBA? 
> > > security. The Globe also reported that the fan,
> Scott Zack, had? been 
> warned 
> > > earlier about his heckling of Davis. 
> > >? "We know what happened, and that's
> unacceptable," Rivers said. "It's 
> tough? 
> > > when the fans are yelling that stuff at you, but
> you have to be? 
> stronger 
> > > than that." 
> > > Davis was fined by the team? earlier this
> season for an off-court 
> > > altercation that ended with? Davis
> fracturing his right thumb and 
> missing the first 27 
> > > games?