From stevebknight at yahoo.com Mon Feb 1 00:58:32 2010 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:58:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <534765.27400.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> again, we take the ball out of rondo's hand and play the pp iso game. doc, it doesn't work. i also think at the end, when he took rondo out for house, it was the wrong move. we only needed a basket to win, not a three. rondo is the most likely person on the celts to either get the basket, or set someone up for an easy shot. why the hell would you want him out of the game? i still think we're headed in the right direction. tony looking much better, garnett playing better, baby getting some time under his belt. remember, we have half a season to jell. i expect them to do just that if doc wakes up a bit. From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 01:23:12 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:23:12 -0500 Subject: ouch In-Reply-To: <8CC70E26B99927A-1D0C-287D@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100131202312.24754.541014.imail@eastrmwml39> Yep. Tis one is taken right between the uprights. Feels like I got punched in the stomach. Looks like the three losses to the Lakers, Orlando and the Baron Davis dagger all totaled 10 seconds leftt on the clock. There is a more accurate way of descrribing what is going on right now. Its called choking. I think we are now finding more ways to lose , rather than more ways win. We are shooting ourselves in both feet with our own guns. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > This one hurts. Maybe there was something to be taken from it, but for now, it just hurts. Period. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From bgoudreau at verizon.net Mon Feb 1 01:23:48 2010 From: bgoudreau at verizon.net (Robert Goudreau) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:23:48 -0500 Subject: lakers game Message-ID: For the last several games when we have had a lead going into the fourth we then stop going to the hoop and start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all the threes we think will go in and don't. What the hell are we thinking anyway. Its the same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired of it. Where the hell is that coach anyway.... Goody From tsb33 at windstream.net Mon Feb 1 04:38:40 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:38:40 -0500 Subject: A changing of the guard is needed! Message-ID: <000301caa2f8$6e174b90$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> After the latest 4th quarter debacle, I think it is obvious thing that we need to change completely what we do in the 4th quarter. Sometimes our defense is not very good in the 4th, but our offense is just down right atrocious and it has nothing do with KG being injured, etc. It starts with Doc. We need to change his/our mentality that with a lead in the 4th, we walk the ball up, throw it to Pierce and let him shoot a contested shot as the clock expires or run Ray off 3 or 4 picks while everyone else stands around and watches throw up a 3, again mostly contested. Pierce cannot physically put this team on his back anymore. He does not have the ability to blow past people and take them to the rim and finish or get fouled. He doesn't anymore that is just the way it is. That is why our 4th quarters are terrible. What needs to happen is give the ball to Rondo, space the court and let him beat his man off the dribble. No one can stay in front of him, not even Kobe, course I can't prove that since Doc had him on the bench for the decisive play so we could all watch Pierce go 1 on 3 then throw it to Ray for a long, contested 3 that we didn't need! Rondo would either have A. had a wide open 15 foot shot, B. drove to the basket and scored/gotten fouled or C. dished it to someone for a much easier shot than Ray took. Whether or not Rondo makes shots or free throws isn't nearly as important as getting good looks and we are failing miserably on that one. Folks, this is Rondo's team for better or worse. Everyone in the NBA knows that except for Doc and maybe Pierce. We don't have a player that can put us on his back for 6 or 8 minutes down the stretch, we don't. That is why we are shooting very few free throws and continue to collapse in the 4th quarter no matter who we are playing. Against the crappy teams, sometimes we still have enough to hang on in the 4th but against the good ones we don't. If Danny really thinks we have a shot this year, and I still do if we make some moves, then Ray must be traded. His value on the court right now is just average but his value trade wise is at its greatest peak! Not sure what he would really bring but I think it would be 1 or 2 good players that could help us now and in the future. We are simply not good enough to make it past more than the 1st round. Time to make some changes and the first one is probably Doc's thinking that this is still the same team of 2 years ago. It isn't and it never will be again, but that doesn't mean it still can't be very good, just different. Troy From green00333444 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 1 13:56:55 2010 From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 05:56:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Nickname In-Reply-To: <000301caa2f8$6e174b90$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <402573.44509.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com> After reading about Big Baby's desire for a new nickname, I came up with the perfect nickname for Rasheed Wallace, "The Big Fork". When Doc sends Rasheed into a game, he puts The Big Fork in them and they're done. Last summer I suggested a Ray Allen for Rip Hamilton and T. Prince deal. With Detroit looking to rebuild and get under the celery cap, it could be a real possibility... Charles From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 1 14:38:26 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: What The Lakers Loss Reveals About The Old Decrepit Celtics In-Reply-To: <241918.70239.qm@web110103.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <511607.45009.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 1/31/10, Way Of The Ray wrote: > 1. Ray Allen needs to be dealt before > the deadline. No, he needs to be benched by the deadline. > > 2. If Rondo is your best player, expect a lot of years > inhabiting the > Lottery. Only if Doc Rivers is coaching the team...Doc can't be bothered to set up an offense that actually benefits his best player...if his best player is the point guard. > > 3. Celtics are 6 - 11 in their last 17 games. Changes need > to be made. Yep, move Ray Allen to the bench. > > 4. Right now, the Celtics are no better than 6th or 7th > best team in the NBA. I'd say they're still 3rd, but whatever. Right now doesn't matter, it's about what's happening in May. > > 5. Garnett and the Celtics will reach a buyout within 1.5 - > 2 years. No chance. > > 6. If the NBA enacts a hard cap, paying Rondo 10 Million a > year will be a disaster. If the NBA Player's Association lets that happen, I'd be very surprised. > > 7. Tony Allen played well - the next time he faces the > Lakers (if he's > not traded by then) he's going to be lucky to score 4 > points. Some of TA's best games have been against the Lakers--in fact, he should have played more in the 2nd half. A good coach like Phil Jackson has sense enough to ride the hot man, as evidenced by the fact that he played Bynum over Gasol in crunch time yesterday. Doc? He'll ride his veterans straight into the ground and into surefire losses. That's what he does. > > 8. What happened to great defensive center Perk whom > Celtics fans raved > about in his ability to shut down Bynum? A bunch of bull shit calls happened, that's what. Bynum got some cheap calls, Perk was sent to the bench, and it Bynum got off because of it. In a differently called game, Perk performs better. Ryan From davep4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 16:51:49 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:51:49 -0500 Subject: A changing of the guard is needed! In-Reply-To: <000301caa2f8$6e174b90$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <20100201115149.1QVTJ.159429.imail@eastrmwml46> I don't know which board I posted this on, but this is rondo's team. The ball must be in his hands for any final, or near final play. these iso plays with Pierce siply do not work. He's not the best player in the world, and he can't tie Kobes shoe laces. There is no excuse (except had it been Kobe, it wouldn't have been an offensive foul) to choke the way they did, and they did because Rondo has to initiate the play. I was tired of seeing Pierce's isolation play back in 2005, and I'm even more sick of it now. Doc blew that game big time by not spreading the floor and let Rondo do his thing. Yes, his jump shot (if needed) is questionable, but his decision making is the best on the team and he is far and away the bast ball handler on the tea, (as well as the quickest). Doc should have called the play for rondo, and let him decide. It's about time both Doc and Pierce wake up. He may be the Captain (Pierce), but the first mate is running the ship. Too bad Doc let the Captain make the decision yesterday. It was a choke-period. that's 3 games- the Clippers, Magic and Lakers where we blew the game with a total of less than 10 seconds on the clock. Had we lost by 30 points, I would have been more at ease today. But losing all these games in the closing seconds means we are still capable of playing with anyone. I'm looking forward to seeing Daniels come back (first time we'd have a full squad this season), and some type of trade or signing. By the way, one of the few bright spots was Tony Allen's play. (And Rondo was amazing). Defensively, we did what we were supposed to do. Offensively, though, it's the same old Doc and the same old plays. Sorry, but it's time to fish or cut bait. We may have to move Ray Allen and rattle this lineup. ---- TroySusieBrady wrote: > After the latest 4th quarter debacle, I think it is obvious thing that we > need to change completely what we do in the 4th quarter. Sometimes our > defense is not very good in the 4th, but our offense is just down right > atrocious and it has nothing do with KG being injured, etc. It starts with > Doc. We need to change his/our mentality that with a lead in the 4th, we > walk the ball up, throw it to Pierce and let him shoot a contested shot as > the clock expires or run Ray off 3 or 4 picks while everyone else stands > around and watches throw up a 3, again mostly contested. Pierce cannot > physically put this team on his back anymore. He does not have the ability > to blow past people and take them to the rim and finish or get fouled. He > doesn't anymore that is just the way it is. That is why our 4th quarters > are terrible. What needs to happen is give the ball to Rondo, space the > court and let him beat his man off the dribble. No one can stay in front of > him, not even Kobe, course I can't prove that since Doc had him on the bench > for the decisive play so we could all watch Pierce go 1 on 3 then throw it > to Ray for a long, contested 3 that we didn't need! Rondo would either have > A. had a wide open 15 foot shot, B. drove to the basket and scored/gotten > fouled or C. dished it to someone for a much easier shot than Ray took. > Whether or not Rondo makes shots or free throws isn't nearly as important as > getting good looks and we are failing miserably on that one. > > Folks, this is Rondo's team for better or worse. Everyone in the NBA knows > that except for Doc and maybe Pierce. We don't have a player that can put > us on his back for 6 or 8 minutes down the stretch, we don't. That is why > we are shooting very few free throws and continue to collapse in the 4th > quarter no matter who we are playing. Against the crappy teams, sometimes > we still have enough to hang on in the 4th but against the good ones we > don't. If Danny really thinks we have a shot this year, and I still do if > we make some moves, then Ray must be traded. His value on the court right > now is just average but his value trade wise is at its greatest peak! Not > sure what he would really bring but I think it would be 1 or 2 good players > that could help us now and in the future. We are simply not good enough to > make it past more than the 1st round. Time to make some changes and the > first one is probably Doc's thinking that this is still the same team of 2 > years ago. It isn't and it never will be again, but that doesn't mean it > still can't be very good, just different. Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 16:54:35 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:54:35 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100201115435.YJVEG.159483.imail@eastrmwml46> Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > For the last several games when we > have had a lead going into the fourth > we then stop going to the hoop and > start heaving up the twenty foot two's > and all the threes we think will go in > and don't. What the hell are we > thinking anyway. Its the same shxx > and the fans are really sick and tired > of it. Where the hell is that coach > anyway.... > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 17:00:56 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:00:56 -0500 Subject: Spoiler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100201120056.DI14B.159590.imail@eastrmwml46> I don't want to blame officiating for our loss, but you're right. Kobe wouldn't have gotten called with an offensive foul at that point. I do think the same of Salvatore. As soon as I saw who was officiating, I knew we were screwed. I don't know who's killing us more- the team, the officiating or the clowns who made up this schedule. Orlando, Atlanta and the Lakers in 4 days, with the first two back to back on the road, and a game tonight on the road! I know we have ourselves to blame for a lot, but I expected a better officated game. No consistency at all ion the NBA. It's far and away the worst officiating in all of the major sports. Thank David Stern for coddling his big media teams. ---- Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: > bennett salvatore > sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > In a message dated 1/31/2010 6:31:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > guiseppemiguel at gmail.com writes: > > What a joke of a game that was. > > Pierce didn't a call all day. Not wonder he didn't go to the basket on the > last play. Kobe pushed off right before his shot the same way Pierce did > on Artest's flop. > > Rondo's travel that took two points off the board and we had a possession > stolen from us by the refs when Sheed hit the rim with the shot clock going > down and Rondo got the rebound. But Phil Jackson said it didn't hit the > rim and he's always right. > > Lakers run out to a big lead because Pierce gets two weak fouls that would > NEVER be called on Cryant and Bynum's two hands in Garnett's back for a > putback. Meanwhile Celtics get called for how many moving screens when Lakers > are doing the same stuff. > > All of that in a one-point loss. Embarrassing officiating. Stern has > ruined this league. > > ------Original Message------ > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics List > ReplyTo: Celtics List > Subject: ouch > Sent: Jan 31, 2010 3:15 PM > > This one hurts. Maybe there was something to be taken from it, but for > now, it just hurts. Period. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 17:01:33 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:01:33 -0500 Subject: Spoiler In-Reply-To: <587929403-1264980660-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1674427787-@bda022.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20100201120133.TNYPG.159602.imail@eastrmwml46> Agree completely. ---- Joe Curley wrote: > What a joke of a game that was. > > Pierce didn't a call all day. Not wonder he didn't go to the basket on the last play. Kobe pushed off right before his shot the same way Pierce did on Artest's flop. > > Rondo's travel that took two points off the board and we had a possession stolen from us by the refs when Sheed hit the rim with the shot clock going down and Rondo got the rebound. But Phil Jackson said it didn't hit the rim and he's always right. > > Lakers run out to a big lead because Pierce gets two weak fouls that would NEVER be called on Cryant and Bynum's two hands in Garnett's back for a putback. Meanwhile Celtics get called for how many moving screens when Lakers are doing the same stuff. > > All of that in a one-point loss. Embarrassing officiating. Stern has ruined this league. > > ------Original Message------ > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics List > ReplyTo: Celtics List > Subject: ouch > Sent: Jan 31, 2010 3:15 PM > > This one hurts. Maybe there was something to be taken from it, but for now, it just hurts. Period. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 17:03:55 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:03:55 -0500 Subject: What The Lakers Loss Reveals About The Old Decrepit Celtics In-Reply-To: <241918.70239.qm@web110103.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100201120355.APK76.159645.imail@eastrmwml46> Two early cheap fouls put Perk on the bench. And Rondo is the best player on this team and needs the ball in his hands, and not Pierce's. Doc called a bad play and it cost us. Had nothing to do with the All Star Rondo. ---- Way Of The Ray wrote: > 1. Ray Allen needs to be dealt before the deadline. > > 2. If Rondo is your best player, expect a lot of years inhabiting the > Lottery. > > 3. Celtics are 6 - 11 in their last 17 games. Changes need to be made. > > 4. Right now, the Celtics are no better than 6th or 7th best team in the NBA. > > 5. Garnett and the Celtics will reach a buyout within 1.5 - 2 years. > > 6. If the NBA enacts a hard cap, paying Rondo 10 Million a year will be a disaster. > > 7. Tony Allen played well - the next time he faces the Lakers (if he's > not traded by then) he's going to be lucky to score 4 points. > > 8. What happened to great defensive center Perk whom Celtics fans raved > about in his ability to shut down Bynum? > > Ray > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Mon Feb 1 17:08:28 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:08:28 +0000 Subject: lakers game Message-ID: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no perimeter threat. Teams double team others ------Original Message------ From: davep4660 at cox.net Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com To: Celtics Cc: Robert Goudreau ReplyTo: Celtics Subject: Re: lakers game Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > For the last several games when we > have had a lead going into the fourth > we then stop going to the hoop and > start heaving up the twenty foot two's > and all the threes we think will go in > and don't. What the hell are we > thinking anyway. Its the same shxx > and the fans are really sick and tired > of it. Where the hell is that coach > anyway.... > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 1 17:15:20 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:15:20 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20100201121520.415MO.159834.imail@eastrmwml46> If the floor is spread, he won't have to. But Allen and Pierce over the last 15 games haven't been lighting it up, either. And rarely ahve they both been hot in the same game. Rondo is no less of a threat than either of those two taking a shot. Do you really think that Pierce's isolation play isn't worn out? It's the same old story. Ball Don't Lie. It has to be in Rondo's hands, as he's the best handler they have, bar none. ---- John Lyell wrote: > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no perimeter threat. Teams double team others > ------Original Message------ > From: davep4660 at cox.net > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > Cc: Robert Goudreau > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. > ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > > For the last several games when we > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's > > and all the threes we think will go in > > and don't. What the hell are we > > thinking anyway. Its the same shxx > > and the fans are really sick and tired > > of it. Where the hell is that coach > > anyway.... > > > > Goody > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:15:50 2010 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:15:50 -0400 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: But Rondo's dribble penetration is the key. He'll force someone to double because he is so capable of beating his man off the dribble. That leaves an opportunity for him to get the ball into the hands of an open teammate, get himself a layup or a foul. His shooting IMHO is MUCH improved of late and he deserves the opportunity to be on the court at the end of each game. Cecil > Subject: Re: lakers game > To: celtics at igtc.com > From: jlyell at verizon.net > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:08:28 +0000 > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no perimeter threat. Teams double team others > ------Original Message------ > From: davep4660 at cox.net > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > Cc: Robert Goudreau > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. > ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > > For the last several games when we > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's > > and all the threes we think will go in > > and don't. What the hell are we > > thinking anyway. Its the same shxx > > and the fans are really sick and tired > > of it. Where the hell is that coach > > anyway.... > > > > Goody > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Introducing Windows? phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708122 From tsb33 at windstream.net Mon Feb 1 17:30:47 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:30:47 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <002a01caa364$4a911680$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Hmm, then why was our best quarter far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? I tell you why, because we run & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play after play trying to get Ray a contested jump shot that is why! This jump shooting mentality is killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. It must change! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM To: Celtics Subject: Re: lakers game Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no perimeter threat. Teams double team others ------Original Message------ From: davep4660 at cox.net Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com To: Celtics Cc: Robert Goudreau ReplyTo: Celtics Subject: Re: lakers game Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > For the last several games when we > have had a lead going into the fourth > we then stop going to the hoop and > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all the threes we think > will go in and don't. What the hell are we thinking anyway. Its the > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired of it. Where the hell > is that coach anyway.... > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - Release Date: 02/01/10 02:35:00 From tsb33 at windstream.net Mon Feb 1 17:32:08 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:32:08 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: References: <1065558593-1265044107-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064508625-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <002b01caa364$7ab9bb50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Like I said in my post last night, it is about getting GOOD looks especially at the end of games and no one can do that better than Rondo. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Wright Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:16 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: RE: lakers game But Rondo's dribble penetration is the key. He'll force someone to double because he is so capable of beating his man off the dribble. That leaves an opportunity for him to get the ball into the hands of an open teammate, get himself a layup or a foul. His shooting IMHO is MUCH improved of late and he deserves the opportunity to be on the court at the end of each game. Cecil > Subject: Re: lakers game > To: celtics at igtc.com > From: jlyell at verizon.net > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:08:28 +0000 > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no perimeter > threat. Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > From: davep4660 at cox.net > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > Cc: Robert Goudreau > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the end is near. I'm sick of putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in town. Pierce may be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be involved in the critical plays by having the ball in his hands. End of story. > ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > > For the last several games when we > > have had a lead going into the fourth we then stop going to the hoop > > and start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all the threes we > > think will go in and don't. What the hell are we thinking anyway. > > Its the same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired of it. > > Where the hell is that coach anyway.... > > > > Goody > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Introducing WindowsR phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708122 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - Release Date: 02/01/10 02:35:00 From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Mon Feb 1 19:48:21 2010 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:48:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Daniels, yes; Tony, ?? Message-ID: <431157.21824.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I see from the Herald how much Coach Rivers lauds M. Daniels.? I wonder if he really saw what the combo of Tony and Rajon did to the fakers.? Tony and Daniels occupy the same position, more or less, and I would argue that they should be played at the same time--possibly sharing the point position if Rajon is on the bench.? But I suspect Tony will lose minutes in the bargain.? For Doc to claim success (which he did) in playing Rondo more in the 2nd quarter is fine, but it was the combo that set them free.? It was as if Rondo decided to win the game and Tony was his wing man.? It worked because they unleashed a torrent of speed and energy and get-to-the-basket that couldn't be stopped.? It was the opposite of? Pierce isolation or run Ray through four screens for a jumper.? And it worked.? We have the athletes to compete with the Atlantas of the league; just use them.? Oh.? Now it's two games in a row with Tony on the bench while we hope the other team doesn't get a jumper to win it.? O for 2.? OK; I feel better now.? Cheers, Gene From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 2 02:51:23 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:51:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ray Allen being shopped Message-ID: <362941.36184.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm Monta Ellis? Andre iguodala? kevin martin? is there anyone with an expiring contract worth trading for? Can we get Posey back for giddens? From douglas342 at aol.com Tue Feb 2 06:19:20 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:19:20 -0500 Subject: Washington Message-ID: <8CC71E6CAAEA149-2418-3CAE@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> 1. Sort of like an Alka-Seltzer: I feel better, but given how I felt yesterday, that ain't saying much. 2. The Washington announcers didn't say anything, but where was Pierce in the 2nd half? I liked Tony getting minutes, but did I miss something? From tsb33 at windstream.net Tue Feb 2 06:27:25 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 01:27:25 -0500 Subject: Washington In-Reply-To: <8CC71E6CAAEA149-2418-3CAE@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC71E6CAAEA149-2418-3CAE@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01caa3d0$c904a3d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Pierce was hurt, how severly we won't know until tomorrow when Xrays on his foot/ankle are taken. Tony did play well which is good to see! -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of douglas342 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:19 AM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Washington 1. Sort of like an Alka-Seltzer: I feel better, but given how I felt yesterday, that ain't saying much. 2. The Washington announcers didn't say anything, but where was Pierce in the 2nd half? I liked Tony getting minutes, but did I miss something? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - Release Date: 02/01/10 02:35:00 From tsb33 at windstream.net Tue Feb 2 06:34:14 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 01:34:14 -0500 Subject: Trade Idea Message-ID: <008e01caa3d1$bcfa67e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> I have NOT heard anything, this is just my thought. I would love for DA to trade House or Scal to the Wolves for Ramon Sessions. The trade works salary wise and the Twolves may do it to get out from Sessions contract. Reasonable trade for both teams. I really like Sessions, he is an underrated PG and scorer. His contract is reasonable and he could really help us at the backup 1 & 2. DA better get creative to give our bench some scoring ability. Troy From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Tue Feb 2 12:26:01 2010 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:26:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Washington In-Reply-To: <8CC71E6CAAEA149-2418-3CAE@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC71E6CAAEA149-2418-3CAE@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <344861.96573.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Herald said he hurt his ankle in the first and Doc waited until the 3rd to sit him (sort of a sign of the times). Two things about the game reaction bother me: Doc being pleasantly surprised at Tony's defense on Butler and Doc's suggestion that we could easily have been 3 out of the last 4. Well, sure, but it doesn't hurt to learn from your mistakes. We have only one quick player on our starting five; that's our problem overall, and it's worse down the stretch. Last night's win was possible because of quickness and defense on Butler and a late steal and layup. My pessimism grows. Cheers, Gene By the way: I remember rating Butler the second best of his draft year; I'll have to look back and see how far off I was. ________________________________ From: "douglas342 at aol.com" To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 10:19:20 PM Subject: Washington 1. Sort of like an Alka-Seltzer: I feel better, but given how I felt yesterday, that ain't saying much. 2. The Washington announcers didn't say anything, but where was Pierce in the 2nd half? I liked Tony getting minutes, but did I miss something? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jeffclark at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 13:20:20 2010 From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:20:20 -0500 Subject: Trade Idea In-Reply-To: <008e01caa3d1$bcfa67e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <008e01caa3d1$bcfa67e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <84e131671002020520s54e5843emaa2a9f22a6b1650b@mail.gmail.com> not very familiar with Sessions but based on reputation alone, I'd do that deal (for Scal) just to get us a backup point and additional bench option On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:34 AM, TroySusieBrady wrote: > I have NOT heard anything, this is just my thought. I would love for DA > to trade House or Scal to the Wolves for Ramon Sessions. The trade works > salary wise and the Twolves may do it to get out from Sessions contract. > Reasonable trade for both teams. I really like Sessions, he is an > underrated > PG and scorer. His contract is reasonable and he could really help us at > the backup 1 & 2. DA better get creative to give our bench some scoring > ability. Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > -- Jeff CelticsBlog.com doughnutholes.wordpress.com From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 2 18:39:14 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:39:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Daniels, yes; Tony, ?? In-Reply-To: <431157.21824.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <781651.6612.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Sadly, Gene, I don't think Doc sees what you and I and countless others see: that TA is a better player than Ray in every area of the game except shooting. And it's Doc's blind allegiance to the shooters on this team (Ray, Sheed, and House) that's killing us. The lack of praise for TA is somewhat strange, but maybe Doc's taking a different tack with Tony for a reason--his praise in years past didn't seem to get TA to perform. Maybe he feels he needs to hold back to get more out of TA--or maybe he just doesn't see what the rest of the world sees. I too hope that TA doesn't lose minutes with Daniels' return. For all the talk of how Daniels will unleash the latent potential in Eddie House, I see the opposite thing: Daniels' return means (hopefully) that we see less of House, and even more positives out of TA, since Marquis can do the bulk of the ball handling on the 2nd unit. Of course, it's my hope that by the time Daniels returns, TA will actually be on the 1st unit. Anyone else see the strange hypocrisy whereby Doc makes excuses for House, saying that Daniels' return will help him make shots, while at the same time chastising TA for his turnover problems, ignoring the fact that BOTH House and TA benefit greatly from someone else doing the bulk of the ball handling? We need a definite infusion of speed and athleticism on the 1st unit, not only to guard the perimeter, but to also unleash Rondo's fast break potential. Doc recently downplayed the possibility of TA getting into the starting lineup, saying basically that any time that TA plays is good long term since it keeps Ray fresh for the playoffs. Actually, Doc, any time TA plays means that we're defending the perimeter and getting easy buckets in transition. Resting Ray is secondary, something you've already proven in the first half of the season as you've run him into the ground. Ryan Ryan --- On Mon, 2/1/10, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > From: gene kirkpatrick > Subject: Daniels, yes; Tony, ?? > To: "celtics" > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:48 PM > I see from the Herald how much Coach > Rivers lauds M. Daniels.? I wonder if he really saw what > the combo of Tony and Rajon did to the fakers.? Tony and > Daniels occupy the same position, more or less, and I would > argue that they should be played at the same time--possibly > sharing the point position if Rajon is on the bench.? But I > suspect Tony will lose minutes in the bargain.? For Doc to > claim success (which he did) in playing Rondo more in the > 2nd quarter is fine, but it was the combo that set them > free.? It was as if Rondo decided to win the game and Tony > was his wing man.? It worked because they unleashed a > torrent of speed and energy and get-to-the-basket that > couldn't be stopped.? It was the opposite of? Pierce > isolation or run Ray through four screens for a jumper.? > And it worked.? We have the athletes to compete with the > Atlantas of the league; just use them.? Oh.? Now it's two > games in a row with Tony on the bench while we hope the > other team doesn't get a jumper to win it.? O for 2.? > OK; I feel better now.? Cheers, Gene From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 2 18:42:50 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:42:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <002a01caa364$4a911680$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <767201.66463.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both tired and inaccurate. You can play them together, you just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like Ray. And, even if you aren't scoring, you're definitely defending, something you'd think a defensive-minded team would like. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: > From: TroySusieBrady > Subject: RE: lakers game > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench?? I tell > you why, because we run > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play after > play trying to get > Ray a contested jump shot that is why!? This jump > shooting mentality is > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter.? It must > change!? Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > Of John Lyell > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > To: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no > perimeter threat. > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > From: davep4660 at cox.net > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > Cc: Robert Goudreau > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > Doc is sleeping.? He calls the same play when the end > is near.? I'm sick of > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in > town.? Pierce may > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship.? He has to be > involved in the critical > plays by having the ball in his hands.? End of story. > ---- Robert Goudreau > wrote: > > For the last several games when we > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all the > threes we think > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we thinking > anyway. Its the > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired of > it. Where the hell > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > Goody > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - Release > Date: 02/01/10 > 02:35:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 2 19:58:37 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:58:37 +0000 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <767201.66463.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <002a01caa364$4a911680$6401a8c0@troyscomputer><767201.66463.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <616087938-1265140719-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-898210543-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> You can play scal , giddens, Baby & rondo. Won't likely win much. tony has played well as of late but against quick young teams that don't allow the penetration they are perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge until they are burned. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Ryan W Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: lakers game Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both tired and inaccurate. You can play them together, you just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like Ray. And, even if you aren't scoring, you're definitely defending, something you'd think a defensive-minded team would like. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: > From: TroySusieBrady > Subject: RE: lakers game > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench?? I tell > you why, because we run > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play after > play trying to get > Ray a contested jump shot that is why!? This jump > shooting mentality is > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter.? It must > change!? Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > Of John Lyell > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > To: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are no > perimeter threat. > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > From: davep4660 at cox.net > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > Cc: Robert Goudreau > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Re: lakers game > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > Doc is sleeping.? He calls the same play when the end > is near.? I'm sick of > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff in > town.? Pierce may > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship.? He has to be > involved in the critical > plays by having the ball in his hands.? End of story. > ---- Robert Goudreau > wrote: > > For the last several games when we > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all the > threes we think > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we thinking > anyway. Its the > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired of > it. Where the hell > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > Goody > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - Release > Date: 02/01/10 > 02:35:00 > > >_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 2 21:38:30 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:38:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <616087938-1265140719-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-898210543-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. We have enough SHOOTING. What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: > From: John Lyell > Subject: Re: lakers game > To: "Celtics" > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM > You can play scal , giddens, Baby > & rondo. Won't likely win much.???tony > has played well as? of late but against quick young > teams that don't allow the penetration they are? > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge > until they are burned. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan W > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: RE: lakers game > > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both > tired and inaccurate.? You can play them together, you > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like > Ray.? And, even if you aren't scoring, you're > definitely defending, something you'd think a > defensive-minded team would like. > > Ryan > > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady > wrote: > > > From: TroySusieBrady > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench?? I tell > > you why, because we run > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play > after > > play trying to get > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why!? This jump > > shooting mentality is > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter.? It must > > change!? Troy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > > On Behalf > > Of John Lyell > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > > To: Celtics > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are > no > > perimeter threat. > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > > From: davep4660 at cox.net > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > To: Celtics > > Cc: Robert Goudreau > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > > > Doc is sleeping.? He calls the same play when the > end > > is near.? I'm sick of > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff > in > > town.? Pierce may > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship.? He has to be > > involved in the critical > > plays by having the ball in his hands.? End of > story. > > ---- Robert Goudreau > > wrote: > > > For the last several games when we > > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all > the > > threes we think > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we > thinking > > anyway. Its the > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired > of > > it. Where the hell > > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > > > Goody > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - > Release > > Date: 02/01/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From douglas342 at aol.com Tue Feb 2 22:30:40 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:30:40 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> After the last couple of games, I'm beginning to buy into the idea that Tony answers one of these issues - the ability to get out in transition and maybe get a fast break bucket on occasion. The Large 3 (I won't call them the Big Three) can still move fast enough to be trailers on a fast break. I also assume that Daniels can be integral to a fast break. Walker - being young - probably can as well. Davis? Sorry, just not enough speed, but he brings other things to the table (no dinner jokes, please.) So I'm now firmly in the column of those who think the idea of switching Allens is an idea worth exploring. It was mentioned somewhere that Doc doesn't praise Tony. That seems to work. He was quoted as saying he does what he has to do and hopes Doc likes it. Tony is a guy who, it strikes me, could easily have a runaway ego, but if he's kept in check, he can be a very good player. I'm pulling for him to have a great season. His career has had its ups and downs. It'd be nice to see it work out. Who knows? Maybe he'll start shooting well enough to begin to think about taking Ray's slot to some extent as a scorer. To some extent. Could he give us 14 ppg as a starter? Ray's giving us 16, right? Lose 2 ppg and pick up that speed - sounds like a good trade to me. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan W To: Celtics Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 1:38 pm Subject: Re: lakers game Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. We have enough SHOOTING. What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: > From: John Lyell > Subject: Re: lakers game > To: "Celtics" > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM > You can play scal , giddens, Baby > & rondo. Won't likely win much. tony > has played well as of late but against quick young > teams that don't allow the penetration they are > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge > until they are burned. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan W > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: RE: lakers game > > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both > tired and inaccurate. You can play them together, you > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like > Ray. And, even if you aren't scoring, you're > definitely defending, something you'd think a > defensive-minded team would like. > > Ryan > > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady > wrote: > > > From: TroySusieBrady > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? I tell > > you why, because we run > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play > after > > play trying to get > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why! This jump > > shooting mentality is > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. It must > > change! Troy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > > On Behalf > > Of John Lyell > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > > To: Celtics > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are > no > > perimeter threat. > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > > From: davep4660 at cox.net > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > To: Celtics > > Cc: Robert Goudreau > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the > end > > is near. I'm sick of > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff > in > > town. Pierce may > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be > > involved in the critical > > plays by having the ball in his hands. End of > story. > > ---- Robert Goudreau > > wrote: > > > For the last several games when we > > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all > the > > threes we think > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we > thinking > > anyway. Its the > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired > of > > it. Where the hell > > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > > > Goody > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - > Release > > Date: 02/01/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 2 22:35:47 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:35:47 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> References: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> Don't get carried away with that thought. David Aldridge is reporting Pierce's foot may be broken. Tony may be playing there instead. Fortunately Daniels is on the road back. http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/ Kim At 05:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > After the last couple of games, I'm beginning to buy into the idea > that Tony answers one of these issues - the ability to get out in > transition and maybe get a fast break bucket on occasion. The > Large 3 (I won't call them the Big Three) can still move fast > enough to be trailers on a fast break. I also assume that Daniels > can be integral to a fast break. Walker - being young - probably > can as well. Davis? Sorry, just not enough speed, but he brings > other things to the table (no dinner jokes, please.) > >So I'm now firmly in the column of those who think the idea of >switching Allens is an idea worth exploring. It was mentioned >somewhere that Doc doesn't praise Tony. That seems to work. He was >quoted as saying he does what he has to do and hopes Doc likes >it. Tony is a guy who, it strikes me, could easily have a runaway >ego, but if he's kept in check, he can be a very good player. I'm >pulling for him to have a great season. His career has had its ups >and downs. It'd be nice to see it work out. Who knows? Maybe >he'll start shooting well enough to begin to think about taking >Ray's slot to some extent as a scorer. To some extent. Could he >give us 14 ppg as a starter? Ray's giving us 16, right? Lose 2 ppg >and pick up that speed - sounds like a good trade to me. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ryan W >To: Celtics >Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 1:38 pm >Subject: Re: lakers game > > >Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. > >The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. We >have enough SHOOTING. What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy >buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. > >Ryan > >--- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: > > > From: John Lyell > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > To: "Celtics" > > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM > > You can play scal , giddens, Baby > > & rondo. Won't likely win much. tony > > has played well as of late but against quick young > > teams that don't allow the penetration they are > > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge > > until they are burned. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ryan W > > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > > > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both > > tired and inaccurate. You can play them together, you > > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like > > Ray. And, even if you aren't scoring, you're > > definitely defending, something you'd think a > > defensive-minded team would like. > > > > Ryan > > > > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady > > wrote: > > > > > From: TroySusieBrady > > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? I tell > > > you why, because we run > > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play > > after > > > play trying to get > > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why! This jump > > > shooting mentality is > > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. It must > > > change! Troy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > > > On Behalf > > > Of John Lyell > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > > > To: Celtics > > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > > > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are > > no > > > perimeter threat. > > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > > > From: davep4660 at cox.net > > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > To: Celtics > > > Cc: Robert Goudreau > > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > > > > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the > > end > > > is near. I'm sick of > > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff > > in > > > town. Pierce may > > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be > > > involved in the critical > > > plays by having the ball in his hands. End of > > story. > > > ---- Robert Goudreau > > > wrote: > > > > For the last several games when we > > > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all > > the > > > threes we think > > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we > > thinking > > > anyway. Its the > > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired > > of > > > it. Where the hell > > > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > > > > > Goody > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - > > Release > > > Date: 02/01/10 > > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From noah.evans at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 22:47:54 2010 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:54 +0100 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> References: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <56a297001002021447m25ab7cf3pef8a6a6c54d39587@mail.gmail.com> This is not our year is it? If Pierce's foot is broken, it's time to rebuild. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > Don't get carried away with that thought. David Aldridge is reporting > Pierce's foot may be broken. Tony may be playing there instead. Fortunately > Daniels is on the road back. > http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/ > Kim > > At 05:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > >> ?After the last couple of games, I'm beginning to buy into the idea that >> Tony answers one of these issues - the ability to get out in transition and >> maybe get a fast break bucket on occasion. ?The Large 3 (I won't call them >> the Big Three) can still move fast enough to be trailers on a fast break. ?I >> also assume that Daniels can be integral to a fast break. ?Walker - being >> young - probably can as well. ?Davis? ?Sorry, just not enough speed, but he >> brings other things to the table (no dinner jokes, please.) >> >> So I'm now firmly in the column of those who think the idea of switching >> Allens is an idea worth exploring. ?It was mentioned somewhere that Doc >> doesn't praise Tony. ?That seems to work. ?He was quoted as saying he does >> what he has to do and hopes Doc likes it. ?Tony is a guy who, it strikes me, >> could easily have a runaway ego, but if he's kept in check, he can be a very >> good player. ?I'm pulling for him to have a great season. ?His career has >> had its ups and downs. ?It'd be nice to see it work out. ?Who knows? ?Maybe >> he'll start shooting well enough to begin to think about taking Ray's slot >> to some extent as a scorer. ?To some extent. ?Could he give us 14 ppg as a >> starter? ?Ray's giving us 16, right? ?Lose 2 ppg and pick up that speed - >> sounds like a good trade to me. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ryan W >> To: Celtics >> Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 1:38 pm >> Subject: Re: lakers game >> >> >> Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. >> >> The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. >> ?We >> have enough SHOOTING. ?What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy >> buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. >> >> Ryan >> >> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: >> >> > From: John Lyell >> > Subject: Re: lakers game >> > To: "Celtics" >> > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM >> > You can play scal , giddens, Baby >> > & rondo. Won't likely win much. ? tony >> > has played well as ?of late but against quick young >> > teams that don't allow the penetration they are >> > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge >> > until they are burned. >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Ryan W >> > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > Subject: RE: lakers game >> > >> > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both >> > tired and inaccurate. ?You can play them together, you >> > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like >> > Ray. ?And, even if you aren't scoring, you're >> > definitely defending, something you'd think a >> > defensive-minded team would like. >> > >> > Ryan >> > >> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: TroySusieBrady >> > > Subject: RE: lakers game >> > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" >> > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM >> > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter >> > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & >> > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? ?I tell >> > > you why, because we run >> > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play >> > after >> > > play trying to get >> > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why! ?This jump >> > > shooting mentality is >> > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. ?It must >> > > change! ?Troy >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com >> > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] >> > > On Behalf >> > > Of John Lyell >> > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM >> > > To: Celtics >> > > Subject: Re: lakers game >> > > >> > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are >> > no >> > > perimeter threat. >> > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ >> > > From: davep4660 at cox.net >> > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com >> > > To: Celtics >> > > Cc: Robert Goudreau >> > > ReplyTo: Celtics >> > > Subject: Re: lakers game >> > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM >> > > >> > > Doc is sleeping. ?He calls the same play when the >> > end >> > > is near. ?I'm sick of >> > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. >> > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff >> > in >> > > town. ?Pierce may >> > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. ?He has to be >> > > involved in the critical >> > > plays by having the ball in his hands. ?End of >> > story. >> > > ---- Robert Goudreau >> > > wrote: >> > > > For the last several games when we >> > > > have had a lead going into the fourth >> > > > we then stop going to the hoop and >> > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all >> > the >> > > threes we think >> > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we >> > thinking >> > > anyway. Its the >> > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired >> > of >> > > it. Where the hell >> > > > is that coach anyway.... >> > > > >> > > > Goody >> > > >_______________________________________________ >> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > > > celtics at igtc.com >> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > > celtics at igtc.com >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > >> > > >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > > celtics at igtc.com >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - >> > Release >> > > Date: 02/01/10 >> > > 02:35:00 >> > > >> > > >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > > celtics at igtc.com >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > celtics at igtc.com >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > celtics at igtc.com >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 2 23:09:23 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:09:23 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <56a297001002021447m25ab7cf3pef8a6a6c54d39587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100202180923.7BEAJ.528452.imail@eastrmwml28> If this is the case, the Danny has to let Ray go now, for a less talented but younger player. I'd jump all over Iguadala if that were possible. ---- Noah Evans wrote: > This is not our year is it? If Pierce's foot is broken, it's time to rebuild. > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > > Don't get carried away with that thought. David Aldridge is reporting > > Pierce's foot may be broken. Tony may be playing there instead. Fortunately > > Daniels is on the road back. > > http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/ > > Kim > > > > At 05:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > >> ?After the last couple of games, I'm beginning to buy into the idea that > >> Tony answers one of these issues - the ability to get out in transition and > >> maybe get a fast break bucket on occasion. ?The Large 3 (I won't call them > >> the Big Three) can still move fast enough to be trailers on a fast break. ?I > >> also assume that Daniels can be integral to a fast break. ?Walker - being > >> young - probably can as well. ?Davis? ?Sorry, just not enough speed, but he > >> brings other things to the table (no dinner jokes, please.) > >> > >> So I'm now firmly in the column of those who think the idea of switching > >> Allens is an idea worth exploring. ?It was mentioned somewhere that Doc > >> doesn't praise Tony. ?That seems to work. ?He was quoted as saying he does > >> what he has to do and hopes Doc likes it. ?Tony is a guy who, it strikes me, > >> could easily have a runaway ego, but if he's kept in check, he can be a very > >> good player. ?I'm pulling for him to have a great season. ?His career has > >> had its ups and downs. ?It'd be nice to see it work out. ?Who knows? ?Maybe > >> he'll start shooting well enough to begin to think about taking Ray's slot > >> to some extent as a scorer. ?To some extent. ?Could he give us 14 ppg as a > >> starter? ?Ray's giving us 16, right? ?Lose 2 ppg and pick up that speed - > >> sounds like a good trade to me. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ryan W > >> To: Celtics > >> Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 1:38 pm > >> Subject: Re: lakers game > >> > >> > >> Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. > >> > >> The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. > >> ?We > >> have enough SHOOTING. ?What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy > >> buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. > >> > >> Ryan > >> > >> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: > >> > >> > From: John Lyell > >> > Subject: Re: lakers game > >> > To: "Celtics" > >> > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM > >> > You can play scal , giddens, Baby > >> > & rondo. Won't likely win much. ? tony > >> > has played well as ?of late but against quick young > >> > teams that don't allow the penetration they are > >> > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge > >> > until they are burned. > >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Ryan W > >> > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 > >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > Subject: RE: lakers game > >> > > >> > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both > >> > tired and inaccurate. ?You can play them together, you > >> > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like > >> > Ray. ?And, even if you aren't scoring, you're > >> > definitely defending, something you'd think a > >> > defensive-minded team would like. > >> > > >> > Ryan > >> > > >> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > From: TroySusieBrady > >> > > Subject: RE: lakers game > >> > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > >> > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > >> > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > >> > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > >> > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? ?I tell > >> > > you why, because we run > >> > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play > >> > after > >> > > play trying to get > >> > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why! ?This jump > >> > > shooting mentality is > >> > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. ?It must > >> > > change! ?Troy > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > >> > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > >> > > On Behalf > >> > > Of John Lyell > >> > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > >> > > To: Celtics > >> > > Subject: Re: lakers game > >> > > > >> > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are > >> > no > >> > > perimeter threat. > >> > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > >> > > From: davep4660 at cox.net > >> > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > >> > > To: Celtics > >> > > Cc: Robert Goudreau > >> > > ReplyTo: Celtics > >> > > Subject: Re: lakers game > >> > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > >> > > > >> > > Doc is sleeping. ?He calls the same play when the > >> > end > >> > > is near. ?I'm sick of > >> > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > >> > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff > >> > in > >> > > town. ?Pierce may > >> > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. ?He has to be > >> > > involved in the critical > >> > > plays by having the ball in his hands. ?End of > >> > story. > >> > > ---- Robert Goudreau > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > For the last several games when we > >> > > > have had a lead going into the fourth > >> > > > we then stop going to the hoop and > >> > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all > >> > the > >> > > threes we think > >> > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we > >> > thinking > >> > > anyway. Its the > >> > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired > >> > of > >> > > it. Where the hell > >> > > > is that coach anyway.... > >> > > > > >> > > > Goody > >> > > >_______________________________________________ > >> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > > > celtics at igtc.com > >> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > > celtics at igtc.com > >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > > celtics at igtc.com > >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - > >> > Release > >> > > Date: 02/01/10 > >> > > 02:35:00 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > > celtics at igtc.com > >> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Tue Feb 2 23:22:58 2010 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:22:58 EST Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery Message-ID: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com> _Giddens undergoes knee surgery_ (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4671495/giddens-undergoes-knee-surgery) By Chris Forsberg _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) guard _J.R. Giddens_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3429) underwent successful arthroscopic surgery on his left knee Tuesday at the New England Baptist Hospital, according to the team. The surgery was performed by team physician Brian McKeon. No timetable has been set for Giddens' return, but he indicated Sunday that he is expecting to miss a month. Giddens, the Celtics' first-round draft choice (30th overall) in 2008, has appeared in 21 games this season. He was injured on assignment with the Maine Red Claws of the NBA Development League when he landed awkwardly while nearly being upended on a dunk attempt against the Utah Flash on Jan. 25. Giddens, who had tweaked the knee the game before against Bakersfield, underwent tests that revealed a slight tear in the meniscus. Despite the setback, Giddens was trying to stay positive. "It's a bummer, but you sit back and look for a positive," said Giddens. "I can work on other areas of my body and maybe my legs can be stronger than before." From douglas342 at aol.com Tue Feb 2 23:28:47 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:28:47 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> References: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <8CC72769A9BBAC8-4ADC-1D1F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> The sky, which has been wobbling of late, may indeed be falling. Broken feet are bad things. IF Pierce is out for the year, we have 2/18 staring us in the face and that doesn't give enough time to see if we can cobble together a championship lineup without Pierce, so it would be goodbye to Ray and on to the next phase for this team. Too bad. I really enjoy this team, but without a functioning PGA, they're a very good team, but not a great one. Ray Allen is a class act. I'd hate to see him leave town this way, but that's life in the NBA. But let's wait to hear what the medics have to say. As the coach says, You know that Doc is just a nickname, right?" -----Original Message----- From: Kim Malo To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List ; celtics at igtc.com Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 2:35 pm Subject: Re: lakers game Don't get carried away with that thought. David Aldridge is reporting Pierce's foot may be broken. Tony may be playing there instead. Fortunately Daniels is on the road back. http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/ Kim At 05:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > After the last couple of games, I'm beginning to buy into the idea > that Tony answers one of these issues - the ability to get out in > transition and maybe get a fast break bucket on occasion. The > Large 3 (I won't call them the Big Three) can still move fast > enough to be trailers on a fast break. I also assume that Daniels > can be integral to a fast break. Walker - being young - probably > can as well. Davis? Sorry, just not enough speed, but he brings > other things to the table (no dinner jokes, please.) > >So I'm now firmly in the column of those who think the idea of >switching Allens is an idea worth exploring. It was mentioned >somewhere that Doc doesn't praise Tony. That seems to work. He was >quoted as saying he does what he has to do and hopes Doc likes >it. Tony is a guy who, it strikes me, could easily have a runaway >ego, but if he's kept in check, he can be a very good player. I'm >pulling for him to have a great season. His career has had its ups >and downs. It'd be nice to see it work out. Who knows? Maybe >he'll start shooting well enough to begin to think about taking >Ray's slot to some extent as a scorer. To some extent. Could he >give us 14 ppg as a starter? Ray's giving us 16, right? Lose 2 ppg >and pick up that speed - sounds like a good trade to me. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ryan W >To: Celtics >Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 1:38 pm >Subject: Re: lakers game > > >Yeah, and it's the quick, young teams that we can't DEFEND. > >The Big 3 might as well be called the Big 3 Jump Shooters at this point. We >have enough SHOOTING. What we don't do is defend the perimeter, get easy >buckets, get out in transition, and get rebounds. > >Ryan > >--- On Tue, 2/2/10, John Lyell wrote: > > > From: John Lyell > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > To: "Celtics" > > Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:58 PM > > You can play scal , giddens, Baby > > & rondo. Won't likely win much. tony > > has played well as of late but against quick young > > teams that don't allow the penetration they are > > perimeter offensive liabilities that teams will challenge > > until they are burned. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ryan W > > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:42:50 > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > > > Yeah, the "you can't play Rondo with TA" argument is both > > tired and inaccurate. You can play them together, you > > just have to alter your offense since TA doesn't shoot like > > Ray. And, even if you aren't scoring, you're > > definitely defending, something you'd think a > > defensive-minded team would like. > > > > Ryan > > > > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, TroySusieBrady > > wrote: > > > > > From: TroySusieBrady > > > Subject: RE: lakers game > > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM > > > Hmm, then why was our best quarter > > > far and away the 2nd quarter when Rondo & > > > Tony was in the lineup and Ray on the bench? I tell > > > you why, because we run > > > & gun, take the ball to the hoop and not run play > > after > > > play trying to get > > > Ray a contested jump shot that is why! This jump > > > shooting mentality is > > > killing us, especially in the 4th quarter. It must > > > change! Troy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > > > On Behalf > > > Of John Lyell > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:08 PM > > > To: Celtics > > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > > > > Rondo can't shoot. When he and tony are in 2 of 5 are > > no > > > perimeter threat. > > > Teams double team others ------Original Message------ > > > From: davep4660 at cox.net > > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > To: Celtics > > > Cc: Robert Goudreau > > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > > Subject: Re: lakers game > > > Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM > > > > > > Doc is sleeping. He calls the same play when the > > end > > > is near. I'm sick of > > > putting the ball in Pierce's hands and not Rondo's. > > > I guess no one told either that there is a new sheriff > > in > > > town. Pierce may > > > be Captian, but Rondo runs this ship. He has to be > > > involved in the critical > > > plays by having the ball in his hands. End of > > story. > > > ---- Robert Goudreau > > > wrote: > > > > For the last several games when we > > > > have had a lead going into the fourth > > > > we then stop going to the hoop and > > > > start heaving up the twenty foot two's and all > > the > > > threes we think > > > > will go in and don't. What the hell are we > > thinking > > > anyway. Its the > > > > same shxx and the fans are really sick and tired > > of > > > it. Where the hell > > > > is that coach anyway.... > > > > > > > > Goody > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2659 - > > Release > > > Date: 02/01/10 > > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 2 23:28:50 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:28:50 -0500 Subject: lakers game In-Reply-To: <56a297001002021447m25ab7cf3pef8a6a6c54d39587@mail.gmail.co m> References: <162376.71851.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <8CC726E7BD507AA-4ADC-EFA@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> <0KX800DFNK5L9IJ5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> <56a297001002021447m25ab7cf3pef8a6a6c54d39587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KX800CYPMM4GRL2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Not necessarily. Depends on the sort of break and if there are other complications (e.g. does he still have infection in his system from the knee that might affect it?). He was walking on it last night and even considered coming back in the game, although they knew it wasn't a great idea. That sounds more like the sort of non-displaced fracture I had that I walked without a cast all over portions of Rome with (the emergency room there was much more concerned about the tears and blood from the fall than the ankle the size of a coconut; fortunately I had some ace bandages with me - they didn't even do that). Painfully, but I could do it. And it healed back together fairly quickly regardless because it was such a simple fracture. If it's that sort, he might well be able to come back several weeks before the playoffs. Especially because they'd do more to heal his faster than they did with mine, both because of who he is and the options available now. Pierce has a very high tolerance for pain, so you can rely on his doing anything to get back ASAP. Kim At 05:47 PM 2/2/2010, Noah Evans wrote: >This is not our year is it? If Pierce's foot is broken, it's time to rebuild. > >On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > > Don't get carried away with that thought. David Aldridge is reporting > > Pierce's foot may be broken. Tony may be playing there instead. Fortunately > > Daniels is on the road back. > > http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/ > > Kim > > From douglas342 at aol.com Tue Feb 2 23:30:11 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:11 -0500 Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery In-Reply-To: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com> References: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC7276CC7993F5-4ADC-1D5F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> Take wound. Add salt. Rub. -----Original Message----- From: BDodgers at aol.com To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 3:22 pm Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery _Giddens undergoes knee surgery_ (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4671495/giddens-undergoes-knee-surgery) By Chris Forsberg From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 2 23:38:46 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:38:46 -0500 Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery In-Reply-To: <8CC7276CC7993F5-4ADC-1D5F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> References: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com> <8CC7276CC7993F5-4ADC-1D5F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0KX8001NDN2OLU6I@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> Why? Not news. That's WHY he was recalled from Portland - as a procedural move prior to surgery. And it's not as if he's shown himself a key component when he has played, although he's looked slightly less lost than last year. Kim At 06:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > Take wound. Add salt. Rub. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: BDodgers at aol.com >To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 3:22 pm >Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery > > > > >_Giddens undergoes knee surgery_ >(http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4671495/giddens-undergoes-knee-surgery) > > > >By Chris Forsberg > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From stevebknight at yahoo.com Wed Feb 3 00:19:20 2010 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:19:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: pp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55206.93542.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> on the contrary. could be a blessing in disguise. we get tony back to where he can be with more playing time, maybe a walker sighting or two, and we get a fresher pierce for the playoffs, assuming it's not a bad break. Message: 6 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:54 +0100 From: Noah Evans Subject: Re: lakers game To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <56a297001002021447m25ab7cf3pef8a6a6c54d39587 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is not our year is it? If Pierce's foot is broken, it's time to rebuild. From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Feb 3 00:57:43 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:57:43 -0500 Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery In-Reply-To: <0KX8001NDN2OLU6I@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> References: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com><8CC7276CC7993F5-4ADC-1D5F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> <0KX8001NDN2OLU6I@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <8CC728306CEAAE5-5474-1E7C@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Of course. It's just the symbolic value of it. The big guy comes along and beats the crap out of you, then his little pipsqueak buddy adds a final kick to the nuts. Next thing you know, Clifford Ray will get a hernia. -----Original Message----- From: Kim Malo To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List ; celtics at igtc.com Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 3:38 pm Subject: Re: Giddens undergoes knee surgery Why? Not news. That's WHY he was recalled from Portland - as a procedural move prior to surgery. And it's not as if he's shown himself a key component when he has played, although he's looked slightly less lost than last year. Kim At 06:30 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > Take wound. Add salt. Rub. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: BDodgers at aol.com >To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 3:22 pm >Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery > > > > >_Giddens undergoes knee surgery_ >(http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4671495/giddens-undergoes-knee-surgery) > > > >By Chris Forsberg > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 3 01:04:33 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:04:33 -0500 Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery In-Reply-To: <8CC728306CEAAE5-5474-1E7C@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> References: <5124.496bc2d1.389a0dd2@aol.com> <8CC7276CC7993F5-4ADC-1D5F@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com> <0KX8001NDN2OLU6I@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> <8CC728306CEAAE5-5474-1E7C@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0KX800CMZR1RGR13@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> At 07:57 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: >Of course. It's just the symbolic value of it. The big guy comes >along and beats the crap out of you, then his little pipsqueak buddy >adds a final kick to the nuts. Next thing you know, Clifford Ray >will get a hernia. From lifting Perk's game? Kim From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 3 01:28:20 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:28:20 -0500 Subject: Giddens undergoes knee surgery In-Reply-To: <0KX800CMZR1RGR13@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20100202202820.71QHM.530387.imail@eastrmwml28> More like Rasheed's game. Cliff actually has to pick him up and place him in the low post, and away from the 3 point line. ---- Kim Malo wrote: > At 07:57 PM 2/2/2010, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > >Of course. It's just the symbolic value of it. The big guy comes > >along and beats the crap out of you, then his little pipsqueak buddy > >adds a final kick to the nuts. Next thing you know, Clifford Ray > >will get a hernia. > > From lifting Perk's game? > Kim > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From hartleyo at bellsouth.net Wed Feb 3 03:52:59 2010 From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:52:59 -0500 Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com Message-ID: I hope this means that PP will opt out of that stupid All Star game crap. And that goes for KG also. Don't play. Rest, Rest, and more Rest http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/02/ainge_relieved.html Hart From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 3 04:09:10 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:09:10 -0500 Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100202230910.0DWMF.212508.imail@eastrmwml49> Pierce has a good excuse for not playing. I'm sure the Celtics will insist on that, and I believe it's their right not to have him play. The game is a joke anyway. It's a popularity contest. Too bad it isn't like baseball, where the winning team gets home court advantage for the Conference winner. Until that happens, I won't watch All Star weekend. Nothing like it used to be. ---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: > I hope this means that PP will opt out of that stupid All Star game crap. And that goes for KG also. Don't play. Rest, Rest, and more Rest > > http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/02/ainge_relieved.html > > Hart > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Feb 3 05:55:25 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:55:25 -0500 Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com In-Reply-To: <20100202230910.0DWMF.212508.imail@eastrmwml49> Message-ID: <8CC72AC9D9D68EE-2DD4-1707@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> I won't watch either, but disagree with you. The game is all hype and flash, and watching these guys bring out thier inner playground makes for a great show. As a display of skill, it's half a game - offense only. Take it for what it's worth and enjoy it. If there were something riding on it, they couldn't make sure that everyone gets his 10 minutes. They'd actually ride the horses to try to win. Forget it. -----Original Message----- From: davidp4660 at cox.net To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:09 pm Subject: Re: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com Pierce has a good excuse for not playing. I'm sure the Celtics will insist on hat, and I believe it's their right not to have him play. The game is a joke nyway. It's a popularity contest. Too bad it isn't like baseball, where the inning team gets home court advantage for the Conference winner. Until that appens, I won't watch All Star weekend. Nothing like it used to be. ---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: I hope this means that PP will opt out of that stupid All Star game crap. And hat goes for KG also. Don't play. Rest, Rest, and more Rest http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/02/ainge_relieved.html Hart _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Wed Feb 3 13:52:06 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:52:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com In-Reply-To: <8CC72AC9D9D68EE-2DD4-1707@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <402138.70114.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It's not necessarily a bad thing to have PP out for a while as ?it gets rid of one of Doc's main binkys. ?As Ryan(?) keeps saying, this is Rondo's team, and the more the ball goes through him, the better we are. ?Pierce ISOs are not the way to go, yet he's been doing it for so many years and he's the captain, yada yada yada. Love PP and hope he heals well and quickly, but it won't hurt us to see what we're made of without him in the lineup. ?Hopefully Doc doesn't just replace him with Ray Allen and run him into the ground. Ellie From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 3 14:18:02 2010 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:18:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com In-Reply-To: <402138.70114.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <662922.40170.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com> No, Doc will just trot out his fav bench binkie, Scals for 25 mins at the SF spot. We will then be wishing for Pierce's quick return to health and ISO ability. It will also mean more of R.A. because of his outside shot. Hope Walker gets some small but meaningful burn time.? Go C's? --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Ellie Cutler wrote: From: Ellie Cutler Subject: Re: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 8:52 AM It's not necessarily a bad thing to have PP out for a while as ?it gets rid of one of Doc's main binkys. ?As Ryan(?) keeps saying, this is Rondo's team, and the more the ball goes through him, the better we are. ?Pierce ISOs are not the way to go, yet he's been doing it for so many years and he's the captain, yada yada yada. Love PP and hope he heals well and quickly, but it won't hurt us to see what we're made of without him in the lineup. ?Hopefully Doc doesn't just replace him with Ray Allen and run him into the ground. Ellie ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 3 15:25:56 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:25:56 -0500 Subject: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com In-Reply-To: <8CC72AC9D9D68EE-2DD4-1707@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100203102556.HTF7J.799217.imail@eastrmwml38> That is the reason I won't watch it, and the same why you do. It's just matters of opinion. As I said last week, I haven't watched the weekend festivities since Larry wone his third 3 point shoot out. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > I won't watch either, but disagree with you. The game is all hype and flash, and watching these guys bring out thier inner playground makes for a great show. As a display of skill, it's half a game - offense only. Take it for what it's worth and enjoy it. > > If there were something riding on it, they couldn't make sure that everyone gets his 10 minutes. They'd actually ride the horses to try to win. Forget it. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: davidp4660 at cox.net > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:09 pm > Subject: Re: Ainge relieved Pierce has only foot strain - Celtics Blog - Boston.com > > > Pierce has a good excuse for not playing. I'm sure the Celtics will insist on > hat, and I believe it's their right not to have him play. The game is a joke > nyway. It's a popularity contest. Too bad it isn't like baseball, where the > inning team gets home court advantage for the Conference winner. Until that > appens, I won't watch All Star weekend. Nothing like it used to be. > ---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: > I hope this means that PP will opt out of that stupid All Star game crap. And > hat goes for KG also. Don't play. Rest, Rest, and more Rest > > http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/02/ainge_relieved.html > > Hart > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Douglas342 at aol.com Thu Feb 4 06:18:24 2010 From: Douglas342 at aol.com (Douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:18:24 EST Subject: Miami Message-ID: <2301a.5e4dbba2.389bc0b0@aol.com> I saw only the 2nd quarter, but would appreciate comments on how Tony Allen did. Only 6 points, but ..? From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 4 14:49:05 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:49:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Miami In-Reply-To: <2301a.5e4dbba2.389bc0b0@aol.com> Message-ID: <177309.83437.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> 6 points, 6 rebounds (4 offensive), 2 steals, including the game deciding steal against Wade with about 30 seconds left and Miami down by 3. On that deciding play, TA got picked off on the top of the key, fought his way back into the play, tipped the ball away from Wade, recovered it, raced up court, got fouled, and sunk both throws to pretty much seal the game. For the 2nd game in a row, TA put the game away on a game-deciding steal. Not too shabby. Wade did go for 30, but Tony's individual defense was pretty solid (I'd say only half of those 30 came when TA was guarding him). He did get in early foul trouble (off some questionable calls of course), but for the most part his individual d was good--the team, however, over-helped on Wade a lot, leaving his teammates open for easy buckets. Wade finished with 13 assists I think. So, individual defense was good on Wade, team defense not so good. Too much over helping and in the 2nd half especially the Cs struggled against Wade in the pick and roll situations. Oh, and the refs let Wade get away with numerous travels, usually right as he caught the ball and rocked into his move--a travel which gives him an unfair advantage against the defense. TA probably would have scored had he gotten some calls--he missed like 3 layups, and seemed to have been fouled on all three. Ryan --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: Douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: Miami > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 12:18 AM > I saw only the 2nd quarter, but would > appreciate comments on how Tony Allen > did.? Only 6 points, but ..? > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 4 23:35:45 2010 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:35:45 EST Subject: Sources: Hughes to coach Clippers Message-ID: <18a26.1d4dc74a.389cb3d1@aol.com> Sources: Hughes to coach Clippers By Marc Stein and J.A. Adande ESPN.com The _Los Angeles Clippers_ (http://spo rts.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac) have decided to make a coaching change with just 32 games left in the season, relieving Mike Dunleavy of his duties, according to team sources. Sources told ESPN.com that the Clippers intend to name Kim Hughes as interim coach. It is believed that Dunleavy -- who has been serving as the Clippers' coach/general manager since Elgin Baylor left the club early last season -- will retain his front-office title. The Clippers began play Thursday with the 12th-best record in the Western Conference, seven games out of a playoff spot at 21-28. Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. J.A. Adande is a columnist for ESPN.com. From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Feb 5 04:58:12 2010 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:58:12 EST Subject: Trade Buzz: 20 who might move Message-ID: <1f81a.68eaecf0.389cff64@aol.com> Trade Buzz: 20 who might move Who are the players most likely to be traded? Read on By Chad Ford ESPN.com We're here to help you get a grasp on what could happen to Amare Stoudemire at the trade deadline. In the final two weeks before the Feb. 18 trade deadline, we are expecting to hear trade chatter increase immensely. At the moment, though, things are a little quiet, according to the NBA general managers I've spoken with this week. One factor appears to be the looming battle over the next collective bargaining agreement, with negotiations expected to start soon. In front offices around the league, the feeling is that owners will fight for major concessions from the players in the next CBA, perhaps even a hard salary cap. With the uncertainty over the new CBA and the economy, some GMs are taking a cautious tack. In addition to cap considerations, there is another perennial issue: Teams ask for a lot in early trade talks and often don't feel a sense of urgency until the final hours before the deadline. As one GM told me: "There aren't many teams that are willing to give teams cap relief this year. And the teams that are willing to do so are asking for a lot in return. I'm not willing to give up an All-Star to save money. But that's what they want." Still, despite the posturing and rhetoric, there are plenty of names in play right now, and plenty of reasons to expect trade talk to heat up soon. Here are 20 players who could be changing uniforms by Feb. 18, according to GMs and others around the NBA: Impact players most likely to be moved 1. _Amare Stoudemire_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) , PF, Suns In the Stoudemire saga, all of the following are true: A. The Suns are trying to trade him; B. The Suns are trying to sign him to a long-term extension; C. Stoudemire is talking about "opting in" to the last year of his contract. Let's break it down: The Suns are still in active trade talks for Amare, with discussions initiated by both the Suns and other teams. The latest is that the Suns have talked to the Philadelphia 76ers about a swap of Stoudemire plus filler for _Andre Iguodala_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2386) and _Samuel Dalembert_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=991) . While there are a lot of deals the Suns wouldn't do, this is one in which they're interested. It's the Sixers that are holding up the process, I'm told. While nothing's imminent, if Philadelphia GM Ed Stefanski sees an opportunity to unload Dalembert and thinks Stoudemire is the best player he can get, things could get hot quickly. At the same time, the Suns are planning to make Stoudemire a contract offer in the next few days, according to a source close to the situation. As in every contract negotiation, the contract terms (years and dollar amount) are the main obstacles -- while Stoudemire might want a max contract, that's not what the Suns want to offer. But I've been told there's another snag: Stoudemire wants a commitment from owner Robert Sarver that the Suns will continue to spend to get back into contention. Stoudemire doesn't want to commit to a team that's going to be in the lottery in future years. So unless the Suns blow Stoudemire away with their offer, they'll reach an agreement only if he is persuaded that the Suns are committed to further spending. Another twist: Stoudemire came out Wednesday claiming that he was leaning toward not exercising the early termination option on his contract. While he talked about the financial benefits of doing so (he's due $17.7 million next season in the final year of his contract), there's another reason Stoudemire went public about this: He wants some control over where he might be traded to. Philly -- a struggling team that sees Stoudemire as more an asset with a potentially expiring contract than as a cornerstone -- would likely be less interested if Stoudemire were planning to play out his contract. Therefore, when Stoudemire heard about the possible trade with the 76ers, he expressed his reservations about being traded to Philadelphia by going public with his musings about staying with his contract. In other words, he's sending a warning to teams that might see him as nothing more than an expiring contract. That aside, it seems likely Stoudemire will exercise his option to terminate his contract. If he doesn't, he's betting that he can (A) stay healthy and (B) fare well under the next collective bargaining agreement, which might be the rules of the game that shape Stoudemire's next contract if he doesn't exercise his option this year. Given his injury history and the determination of the owners to tighten up the next CBA, that's a huge risk. 2. _Troy Murphy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013) , F, Pacers The Pacers are struggling and looking to the future for hope. They were poised to potentially trade _Jeff Foster_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250) , but with Foster likely now out for the season, their focus moves to Murphy. With a number of contending teams interested in him, the Pacers seem to be in the right place to make a deal. While Murphy may be overpaid, there are few bigs in the league who can rebound and spread the floor the way he can, which gives him value to a number of teams. The Cleveland Cavaliers continue to be the team with the most interest. If the Cavs can't land _Antawn Jamison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) , Murphy appears to be their second option. At a minimum, the Pacers likely will be able to get back expiring contracts and one asset (either a draft pick or _J.J. Hickson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3437) ) for Murphy. 3. _Kirk Hinrich_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1981) , G, Bulls The Bulls will have salary-cap space this summer, and they want more. If they can trade Hinrich and/or _John Salmons_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1726) for expiring contracts, they can make a pitch to both _LeBron James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) and _Chris Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) this summer. Can you imagine a team with James, Bosh, _Derrick Rose_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) , _Luol Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) and _Joakim Noah_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224) ? I guarantee you Chicago exec John Paxson can, and if Bosh isn't traded before the deadline, the Bulls appear to have a chance make it happen. In the past few weeks, both the Celtics and the Lakers have shown interest in Hinrich. The Celtics could do a deal that would send _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) for both Hinrich and Salmons, providing Boston ballhandling and depth on the wings and giving Chicago new hope for this summer. In any case, given all the chatter about Hinrich, I think the chances he'll be a Bull after Feb. 18 are increasingly slim. 4. _Caron Butler_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) , G/F, Wizards For weeks we've assumed that Antawn Jamison is the Wizard most likely to be moved, but that's not true, according to GMs who have had conversations with the Wizards. They say the team is reluctant to move Jamison, a franchise cornerstone. Butler, on the other hand, is very much available, and the Wizards shouldn't have much trouble finding interest: Butler has only one year remaining on his contract and he can still play, at age 29 (he turns 30 on March 13). One issue that could slow negotiations is the fact that the Wizards don't want to just give Butler away; they want both cap relief and a young asset. But that might be a heavy price in this market. 5. _Andre Iguodala_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ nba/players/profile?playerId=2386) , G/F, Sixers I've struggled to accept the idea that the 76ers would give away Iguodala, their best player, no matter how desperate they are to cut payroll. But in NBA front offices, the word is that he is very much available. Of course, Philly's hope is to get rid of the contract of Samuel Dalembert in such a deal. A source told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the Houston Rockets have recently renewed discussions with the 76ers about a deal involving Iguodala and Dalembert for the expiring contract of _Tracy McGrady_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) . And as I reported above, the Suns have also entered the mix, offering Amare Stoudemire for Iguodala and Dalembert. The Cavs and Dallas Mavericks have explored Iguodala deals as well. Slowing discussions at the moment is the fact that the Sixers really want to get some talent back in such a deal. The Rockets have players to offer, and the Suns might be willing to throw in _Leandro Barbosa_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2166) , I'm told. So while the Sixers are motivated to move Iguodala, I think it's going to take more than an expiring contract to land him in the end. 6. _Tayshaun Prince_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724) , F, Pistons The Pistons continue to be very active in trade discussions regarding Prince. While the team would prefer to move _Richard Hamilton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294) , I don't think they're going to be able to find a home for him given his enormous contract. If the Pistons can swap Prince for some help in the paint, they've got to do it. There has been a growing focus on a potential _Carlos Boozer_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) -for-Prince swap. With both teams struggling to find another trade partner, will they ultimately fall into each other's arms? 7. _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) , G, Celtics Recently, Allen's name has surfaced in a number of rumors and potential deals for such players as _Monta Ellis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2751) and Kirk Hinrich, and the Celtics are not denying that an Allen trade is a possibility. On Wednesday, Celtics president _Danny Ainge_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3622) told a Boston radio station that it was "unlikely" that the team would trade Allen, and privately, a source in Boston is saying the same thing. But with the Celtics struggling, and with Allen holding a desirable expiring contract, trading him looks like Boston's best chance to refresh the team's efforts to contend for a title this season and beyond. 8. _Nate Robinson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2782) , G, Knicks After a stint in Mike D'Antoni's doghouse, Robinson is playing again and playing well. In fact, the word is that he's moving into the starting lineup. Consider it an audition for his next home. The Knicks will move Nate if they can, especially if they can do so in a package deal that rids them of the contract of _Eddy Curry_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=990) or _Jared Jeffries_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1717) so the team can clear more salary-cap space for the summer. 9. _Antawn Jamison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) , F, Wizards Three weeks ago, Jamison appeared to be the player most likely to be traded. But the word from a number of GMs is that the Wizards are reluctant to trade him, particularly to the rival Cavs. "They want a lot for him," one GM said. "A lot. Jamison is a good player, but he's old and makes a lot of money. No one is giving up a future superstar in return." 10. _Samuel Dalembert_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=991) , C, Sixers For the most part Dalembert has been paired with _Andre Iguodala_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2386) in trade talks with the Rockets, Suns and Mavs. But there is a fair share of interest in Dalembert himself. Yes, he is overpaid, but his contract expires in 2011, he is a defensive force and he can run the floor. While his 15 percent trade kicker is a problem, expect interest to continue to grow. Sacramento might be at the front of the line, given its trade assets and need for a defensive center. 11. _Josh Howard_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2006) , F, Mavericks Howard, at age 29, is having the worst season of his career and has struggled to play alongside Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion. But other teams have interest because his contract has a team option for next year, which means a team can acquire him now and decide this summer whether to keep him as player, hold on to him as a 2011 expiring contract or decline the option and take the savings right away. The Raptors and Kings have been rumored to have the most interest. 12. _Kevin Martin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394) , G, Kings The Kings continue to say they want to get a good look at how well star rookie _Tyreke Evans_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3983) and Martin can coexist. But so far it hasn't been pretty: Sacramento is 2-13 when Martin and Evans have started in the backcourt together. Martin has played better lately, but the team was 14-18 when he was out with an injury. So ultimately, I think the Kings will be willing to deal. The team is still under a financial crunch and this is no longer Martin's team. A deal of Martin and Andres Nocioni for Ray Allen, for instance, would give the Kings great payroll flexibility going forward. 13. _Al Jefferson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389) , PF, Timberwolves Timberwolves president David Kahn insists that Minnesota has no interest in moving Al Jefferson. Other GMs around the league are equally convinced that Jefferson is available for the right offer, especially if the Wolves can get a big man in return. 14. _Devin Harris_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2382) , PG, Nets With New Jersey hitting bottom and Harris having a very disappointing season, the Nets have explored trading him. If the Nets knew they could get John Wall in the draft, they would probably trade Harris now. While they would consider moving him anyway, the latest word is that the Nets are planning to hold on to Harris until they see what happens in the May 18 draft lottery, when the Nets will likely have a 25 percent chance of getting the top pick. 15. _Chris Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) , PF, Raptors There is a growing consensus that Bosh is staying in Toronto, until this summer, at least. Several sources around the league have said that Bosh trade talk has stalled in the past few weeks, thanks in large part to the Raptors' recent success on the court. The team is winning, and Bosh has been terrific. The Raptors are currently fifth in the East and hoping for bigger things this season. With the Raptors on a roll, if Bryan Colangelo believes he has a chance to keep Bosh, then the incentive to move him now (instead of this summer) is reduced. And it sounds like Colangelo is gaining confidence that he can persuade Bosh to stay. ____________________________________ Expiring contracts 1. _Zydrunas Ilgauskas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) , C, Cavs Cleveland might be the most motivated team in the league to do a deal, given that the stakes include a title this season and keeping LeBron James this summer. They want a stretch 4 and have an extra big with both Ilgauskas and Shaquille O'Neal on board. Another team could acquire Big Z's expiring contract (nearly $12 million) and might be willing to waive him, allowing him to rejoin the Cavs. 2. _Tracy McGrady_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?play erId=532) , G, Rockets While it's unclear what McGrady has left as a player, his contract makes him a superstar at the trade deadline: A team trading for T-Mac can wipe $22 million off its 2010-11 books. The Rockets are still trying to figure out how to use this asset -- is it a trade piece or an expiring contract to benefit their own cap situation? The hottest McGrady rumor involves the potential acquisition of Andre Iguodala (along with Samuel Dalembert). If they can get a player of Iguodala's talent for McGrady, that might be too much for the Rockets to pass up. 3. _Carlos Boozer_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) , F/C, Jazz The Jazz would move Boozer, but the offers they've heard haven't been enticing enough. The team is red-hot, Boozer is playing well and his expiring contract will help the Jazz reduce payroll next season, so there is no reason to give him away. To make a deal, Utah would like a quality starter in return. While the rumor mill has focused on a Boozer-for-_Tayshaun Prince_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724) trade, both sides say there's nothing to it. Given all the factors involved, it seems likely Boozer will remain with the Jazz until the summer. 4. _Brendan Haywood_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1000) , C, Wizards With the Portland Trail Blazers, the Houston Rockets and other teams in need of a big man, it could be Haywood, not Butler or Jamison, who departs the Wizards first. Washington needs more than just cap relief to move Haywood's expiring contract, but not much more. 5. _Kenny Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=849) , PF, Kings After a quick takeoff, the Kings have fallen back to earth, and they still want to cut payroll. They've been trying to move Andres Nocioni, with Thomas' $8.8 million expiring contract as bait. From dajubo at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 05:13:44 2010 From: dajubo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?RC4gQm91dHTp?=) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:13:44 -0500 Subject: Too easy? Message-ID: Just throwing this out for comments: The Sixers are supposedly eager to get rid of Andre Iguodala and Dalembert. I am not sure what they want in return, but via Real GM's Trade Checker, the trade of Iguodala and Dalembert for Ray Allen and Tony Allen actually works. Could a deal like that be as easy as providing cap relief to the Sixers? -David From jbrainin at verizon.net Fri Feb 5 05:31:09 2010 From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:31:09 -0500 Subject: Too easy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15e848071002042131o2dbcf2deucc09f3cebc2eaa53@mail.gmail.com> Not to a hated divisional rival like the Celtics. On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:13 AM, D. Boutt? wrote: > Just throwing this out for comments: > > The Sixers are supposedly eager to get rid of Andre Iguodala and Dalembert. > I am not sure what they want in return, but via Real GM's Trade Checker, > the > trade of Iguodala and Dalembert for Ray Allen and Tony Allen actually > works. > Could a deal like that be as easy as providing cap relief to the Sixers? > > -David > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Fri Feb 5 11:43:44 2010 From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:43:44 -0500 Subject: Trade Buzz: 20 who might move In-Reply-To: <1f81a.68eaecf0.389cff64@aol.com> References: <1f81a.68eaecf0.389cff64@aol.com> Message-ID: <201002051143.o15Bhms4004856@artemis.afrc.af.mil> This is a trade I would do. Salmons is actually the piece I like the most - he has a propensity for good defense (he's always done a nice job on Pierce), has good 3 pt range, and can finish. He has a long career ahead in a Bruce Bowen/James Posey role for a good team. I'm hot and cold on Hinrich (kinda like his career), but he's a decent backup PG who can also play the 2. It's the first trade I've seen that provides a fill for two needs (the one traded away in Allen and the backup PG). Also since they're both not rookies - Doc might actually play them. Trade Buzz: 20 who might move Who are the players most likely to be traded? Read on By Chad Ford ESPN.com In the past few weeks, both the Celtics and the Lakers have shown interest in Hinrich. The Celtics could do a deal that would send _Ray Allen_ for both Hinrich and Salmons, providing Boston ballhandling and depth on the wings and giving Chicago new hope for this summer. In any case, given all the chatter about Hinrich, I think the chances he'll be a Bull after Feb. 18 are increasingly slim. From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Feb 5 14:58:33 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:58:33 +0000 Subject: Too easy? Message-ID: <475716950-1265381920-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1637274291-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Would we make the Ray for heinrich and salmons then baby for tayshaun? ------Original Message------ From: Jonathan Brainin Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com To: Celtics ReplyTo: Celtics Subject: Re: Too easy? Sent: Feb 4, 2010 9:31 PM Not to a hated divisional rival like the Celtics. On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:13 AM, D. Boutt? wrote: > Just throwing this out for comments: > > The Sixers are supposedly eager to get rid of Andre Iguodala and Dalembert. > I am not sure what they want in return, but via Real GM's Trade Checker, > the > trade of Iguodala and Dalembert for Ray Allen and Tony Allen actually > works. > Could a deal like that be as easy as providing cap relief to the Sixers? > > -David >_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From pdelevett at yahoo.com Fri Feb 5 21:30:28 2010 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:30:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trade Buzz Message-ID: <974918.98500.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> With advance apologies to Kim Malo and others who despise trade speculation, I also am intrigued by the two Ray Allen scenarios Chad Ford posited. I'll stipulate that I don't want Ray to move; I love the guy, and in general I don't think there's a great history of teams winning championships by moving aging Hall of Famers for younger, promising but ultimately less talented players. Naetheless, it's pretty obvious that Boston's going to struggle to win a championship this season without getting younger and deeper. It's also pretty obvious that Cleveland is poised to add an Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy for very little cost. I see a lot of upside to either supposed deal, which would fill two needs for the price of one. Which one is "better" might depend on what you think is Boston's biggest problem: the health/decrepitude of its bigs, or the lack of a proven backup for Rondo. Salmons and Martin strike me in many ways as a wash; Martin has more long-term upside and might be more of a piece to build around, but he and Nocioni also would tie up more long-term money for the team. That question aside, I might be inclined to pull the trigger on the Sacramento deal and pick up a backup PG elsewhere. Salmons and Hinrich feel like pretty short-term solutions, and those rarely work out well unless you're getting equal talent for talent. From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Sat Feb 6 14:27:58 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 06:27:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: retooling for future - was - Re: Trade Buzz In-Reply-To: <974918.98500.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <774781.90686.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi Peter - you could say we won't win this year, period - whether we keep the roster as is (do you really think Garnett is going to play 30 mpg for 4 series in a row?) or trade for lesser players. ?The key to trading any of Ray/KG/Pierce is to get talent that will let us win a championship in the hopefully near future. ?To me, that's Kevin Martin over Heinrich. ? For Ainge to continue his GM plan, he has to move the contracts as they come up. ?Maybe we can resign Ray in the summer and put him on the bench for next year. ? We could have developed Lester Hudson (there I go again!) enough to give him the reins for the bench, at either guard position. ?An interesting situation is developing in Memphis. They have a glut of PGs with Conley, Tinsley, Hudson, and Marcus Williams. Hudson's minutes have been steadlly increasing, with what looks like a decrease in Conley's. ?Perhaps there is some grounds for a deal there. ? I love Marc Gasol, am not so keen on Rudy Gay - not tough enough for me.? Who would we ever get to replace KG - a younger, intense, defensive monster. ?Well maybe Dwight Howard, if Orlando continues to bicker and he wants a title. ?Amare Stoudamire? ?Man, I wish KG had come here five years ago - for his sake and for ours... And for the other third, PP... ? He is a great player, with a temperament more of a Pippen vs the Jordan you get with KG (and Bird). ?Until KG showed up, Pierce's best ball was played with Antoine Walker in his ear. ?He ended up Captain by default, as our best player. ?He has been here his whole, long, career. ?How do you trade that? ? Problem is, the team will never get handed over to Rondo as long as Pierce is here. ?How does the face of a franchise participate in a changing of the guard? ?And where could he go? ?Golden State, perhaps. ?Or maybe Portland or Phoenix. What great young players can we pair with Rondo & Perk? ?I'd love to see Rondo with a wing like Nick Batum, or Josh Smith.? in the meantime, I am enjoying Tony Allen's regular play. ? Ellie --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Peter Delevett wrote: From: Peter Delevett Subject: Trade Buzz To: celtics at igtc.com Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 4:30 PM With advance apologies to Kim Malo and others who despise trade speculation, I also am intrigued by the two Ray Allen scenarios Chad Ford posited. I'll stipulate that I don't want Ray to move; I love the guy, and in general I don't think there's a great history of teams winning championships by moving aging Hall of Famers for younger, promising but ultimately less talented players. Naetheless, it's pretty obvious that Boston's going to struggle to win a championship this season without getting younger and deeper. It's also pretty obvious that Cleveland is poised to add an Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy for very little cost. I see a lot of upside to either supposed deal, which would fill two needs for the price of one. Which one is "better" might depend on what you think is Boston's biggest problem: the health/decrepitude of its bigs, or the lack of a proven backup for Rondo. Salmons and Martin strike me in many ways as a wash; Martin has more long-term upside and might be more of a piece to build around, but he and Nocioni also would tie up more long-term money for the team. That question aside, I might be inclined to pull the trigger on the Sacramento deal and pick up a backup PG elsewhere. Salmons and Hinrich feel like pretty short-term solutions, and those rarely work out well unless you're getting equal talent for talent. ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Sat Feb 6 15:04:02 2010 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game Message-ID: <404588.87287.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> HT to ESPN's Chris Forsberg (Ray says) So, were they advance scouts or is there the possibility of a deal with one or both of the teams? Unlikely: Ray, Davis & Two Firsts for Al, Gomes and Brewer. Minnesota dumps a huge amount of salary. You never know: Ray, Davis & First for Martin, Nocioni & Armstrong. Well, why not: Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House for Jefferson & Gomes Triple Play: Gomes & Sessions to Boston; Al & Tony to Sacramento; Thompson, Martin, Scalabrine & House to Minnesota Let's see Ainge pull this one off: Jefferson, Martin, Armstrong, Pavlovich & Nocioni to Boston; Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House to Minnesota; Ray Allen to Sacramento. Ray From jlyell at verizon.net Sat Feb 6 16:51:46 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:51:46 +0000 Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game Message-ID: <1492184298-1265475105-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-463522971-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hilton armstrong is a nice young inside player . ray & baby for al and gomes and Rubio? ------Original Message------ From: Way Of The Ray Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com To: Celtics To: Celtics Stuff ReplyTo: Celtics Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:04 AM HT to ESPN's Chris Forsberg (Ray says) So, were they advance scouts or is there the possibility of a deal with one or both of the teams? Unlikely: Ray, Davis & Two Firsts for Al, Gomes and Brewer. Minnesota dumps a huge amount of salary. You never know: Ray, Davis & First for Martin, Nocioni & Armstrong. Well, why not: Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House for Jefferson & Gomes Triple Play: Gomes & Sessions to Boston; Al & Tony to Sacramento; Thompson, Martin, Scalabrine & House to Minnesota Let's see Ainge pull this one off: Jefferson, Martin, Armstrong, Pavlovich & Nocioni to Boston; Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House to Minnesota; Ray Allen to Sacramento. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From davidp4660 at cox.net Sat Feb 6 17:44:26 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:44:26 -0500 Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game In-Reply-To: <1492184298-1265475105-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-463522971-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20100206124426.46132.234878.imail@eastrmwml40> Throw in WOTR, and we can seal the deal. ---- John Lyell wrote: > Hilton armstrong is a nice young inside player . ray & baby for al and gomes and Rubio? > ------Original Message------ > From: Way Of The Ray > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > To: Celtics > To: Celtics Stuff > ReplyTo: Celtics > Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game > Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:04 AM > > HT to ESPN's Chris Forsberg > > (Ray says) So, were they advance scouts or is there the possibility of > a deal with one or both of the teams? > > Unlikely: Ray, Davis & Two Firsts for Al, Gomes and Brewer. Minnesota dumps a huge amount of salary. > > You never know: Ray, Davis & First for Martin, Nocioni & Armstrong. > > Well, why not: Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House for Jefferson & Gomes > > Triple Play: Gomes & Sessions to Boston; Al & Tony to Sacramento; Thompson, > Martin, Scalabrine & House to Minnesota > > Let's see Ainge pull this one off: Jefferson, Martin, Armstrong, Pavlovich & Nocioni to Boston; Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House to Minnesota; Ray > Allen to Sacramento. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From tfmiii at worldnet.att.net Sat Feb 6 19:30:53 2010 From: tfmiii at worldnet.att.net (Tom Murphy) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:30:53 -0700 Subject: retooling for the future Message-ID: <4769741CB2124C9182C07615A3B4B608@D1FFY321> Hi Ellie, I have to agree with you, if a trade is to be made it will be for a potential game-changer and Kevin Martin fits that bill, I don't believe Hinrich does. In fact none of the Chicago rumors seem plausible to me, they sound too much like "Ainge for Pinckney & Klein".... trading a starter for a bench players. Actually our current bench would not be too bad if/when people are healthy. I would take the statement that Boston is looking for a potential replacement coupled with an expiring contract as the basis for trying to assess how likely a deal may be. From the rumors floating out there it leaves two potential deals: a) Kevin Martin and Thomas (expiring) from Sacto in exchange for Ray or b) Caron Butler and Mike Miller (expiring) in exchange for Ray... minor contracts/picks to be added as needed. Of course one can question why either Sacto or Washington would go for either of these and likely they would not. But I see it as a seller's market when it comes to expiring contracts and if these (or other) deals don't go thru then we go to war with a healthy team with a better shot at the championship than we had last year at this time. As you noted, the big question is what that means for our chances the following few years. I am intrigued with what it might take to get Conley, esp as it would mean fleec... er... I mean TRADING with Wallace again lol From jeffclark at gmail.com Sat Feb 6 19:52:36 2010 From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:52:36 -0500 Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game In-Reply-To: <20100206124426.46132.234878.imail@eastrmwml40> References: <1492184298-1265475105-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-463522971-@bda746.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100206124426.46132.234878.imail@eastrmwml40> Message-ID: <84e131671002061152j1f26ae0bh6c91c8d287848be9@mail.gmail.com> I'd give up Ray for Big Al and Gomes, absolutely - Minn. is a good candidate to waive Ray as well On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 12:44 PM, wrote: > Throw in WOTR, and we can seal the deal. > ---- John Lyell wrote: > > Hilton armstrong is a nice young inside player . ray & baby for al and > gomes and Rubio? > > ------Original Message------ > > From: Way Of The Ray > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > To: Celtics > > To: Celtics Stuff > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game > > Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:04 AM > > > > HT to ESPN's Chris Forsberg > > > > (Ray says) So, were they advance scouts or is there the possibility of > > a deal with one or both of the teams? > > > > Unlikely: Ray, Davis & Two Firsts for Al, Gomes and Brewer. Minnesota > dumps a huge amount of salary. > > > > You never know: Ray, Davis & First for Martin, Nocioni & Armstrong. > > > > Well, why not: Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House for Jefferson & Gomes > > > > Triple Play: Gomes & Sessions to Boston; Al & Tony to Sacramento; > Thompson, > > Martin, Scalabrine & House to Minnesota > > > > Let's see Ainge pull this one off: Jefferson, Martin, Armstrong, > Pavlovich & Nocioni to Boston; Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House to > Minnesota; Ray > > Allen to Sacramento. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > -- Jeff CelticsBlog.com doughnutholes.wordpress.com From davidp4660 at cox.net Sat Feb 6 20:31:44 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:31:44 -0500 Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game In-Reply-To: <84e131671002061152j1f26ae0bh6c91c8d287848be9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100206153144.NOOPA.299165.imail@eastrmwml44> What do you do then, bring Garnett off the bench as the 6th man? Have to keep Perk as the starter, as he's much younger and stronger, and is needed as an enforcer type (he'll protect Al). Rasheed then goes to the 7th spot. Does that put Gomes as a sf? ---- jeffclark at gmail.com wrote: > I'd give up Ray for Big Al and Gomes, absolutely - Minn. is a good candidate > to waive Ray as well > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 12:44 PM, wrote: > > > Throw in WOTR, and we can seal the deal. > > ---- John Lyell wrote: > > > Hilton armstrong is a nice young inside player . ray & baby for al and > > gomes and Rubio? > > > ------Original Message------ > > > From: Way Of The Ray > > > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > To: Celtics > > > To: Celtics Stuff > > > ReplyTo: Celtics > > > Subject: Wolves & Kings Scouted Celtics-Nets Game > > > Sent: Feb 6, 2010 7:04 AM > > > > > > HT to ESPN's Chris Forsberg > > > > > > (Ray says) So, were they advance scouts or is there the possibility of > > > a deal with one or both of the teams? > > > > > > Unlikely: Ray, Davis & Two Firsts for Al, Gomes and Brewer. Minnesota > > dumps a huge amount of salary. > > > > > > You never know: Ray, Davis & First for Martin, Nocioni & Armstrong. > > > > > > Well, why not: Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House for Jefferson & Gomes > > > > > > Triple Play: Gomes & Sessions to Boston; Al & Tony to Sacramento; > > Thompson, > > > Martin, Scalabrine & House to Minnesota > > > > > > Let's see Ainge pull this one off: Jefferson, Martin, Armstrong, > > Pavlovich & Nocioni to Boston; Perkins, Scalabrine, Davis & House to > > Minnesota; Ray > > > Allen to Sacramento. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > -- > Jeff > CelticsBlog.com > doughnutholes.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From bgoudreau at verizon.net Sun Feb 7 01:49:39 2010 From: bgoudreau at verizon.net (Robert Goudreau) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:49:39 -0500 Subject: retooling for the future Message-ID: <11FF0A21F2874BE983FFC76D4E536A03@gail8c0dd2bec0> Looking at the last three games when we played the nobodys, there is no no doubt that Rondo is the MAN. You can put a "C" on anybody you want on that roster but rondo is still the MAN. Now sith allthe trade talk running around, lets reflect for one little minute. Does anyone still/want to make the trade of Rondo for Delonte? Can all us posters remember the clamering that went on when that trade was made and it was West instead of Rondo? Goody From davidp4660 at cox.net Sun Feb 7 01:55:27 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:55:27 -0500 Subject: retooling for the future In-Reply-To: <11FF0A21F2874BE983FFC76D4E536A03@gail8c0dd2bec0> Message-ID: <20100206205527.246XX.275762.imail@eastrmwml45> You are correct, sir. Rondo is the face of the Celtics. I'd make that type of trade any day, anytime. ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > Looking at the last three games when > we played the nobodys, there is no > no doubt that Rondo is the MAN. You > can put a "C" on anybody you want on > that roster but rondo is still the MAN. > > Now sith allthe trade talk running > around, lets reflect for one little minute. > Does anyone still/want to make the > trade of Rondo for Delonte? Can all > us posters remember the clamering > that went on when that trade was > made and it was West instead of > Rondo? > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Feb 7 16:50:50 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: retooling for the future In-Reply-To: <11FF0A21F2874BE983FFC76D4E536A03@gail8c0dd2bec0> Message-ID: <654701.47213.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I can remember no clamoring of the sort; at that point it was pretty clear Rondo was the superior player (for a while the Minny owner actually 'insisted' that Rondo had to be in the KG deal or there would be no deal) and that Delonte would never be able to play point. Delonte's actually improved quite a bit since then into a real combo guard. And Rondo's become a top 3 point guard, and as you say the face of the franchise. Now, if we could only get the ball in his hands down the stretch of games. The real trip down memory lane is much shorter and it goes all the way back to this past summer, when many were clamoring that Rondo wasn't worth more than 8 million, and that he'd never be an All-Star. Ryan --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Robert Goudreau wrote: > From: Robert Goudreau > Subject: Re: retooling for the future > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 7:49 PM > Looking at the last three games when > we played the nobodys, there is no > no doubt that Rondo is the MAN. You > can put a "C" on anybody you want? on > that roster but rondo is still the MAN. > > Now sith allthe trade talk running > around, lets reflect for one little minute. > Does anyone still/want to make the > trade of Rondo for Delonte?? Can all > us posters remember the clamering > that went on when that trade was > made and it was West instead of > Rondo? > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From jlyell at verizon.net Sun Feb 7 17:21:35 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:21:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: retooling for the future In-Reply-To: <654701.47213.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <654701.47213.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <449280.84954.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I?don't recall either. rondo's question has always been his perimeter game where we know if he gets this down he may be the best in the league and would be an unstoppable?offensive weapon like magic when he started hitting from the perimeter. Rondo vs. Paul was discussed when we heard of potential trade rumors. If we do get Monta Ellis this could be crazy. He and Rondo are two of the quickest players in the NBA with most defenders unable to stay with them. If we get a tall young inside player like Randolph, Radmanovich, or maybe?brandon Wright ?in swapping baby we could be tough for years to come which is waht we need to consider. Radman brings the perimeter threat when on.?The down side is we would?lose Ray's experience. Nocioni,?Martin & Armstrong would be nice the truth is we need a tall young athletic big man to compete inside with Atlanta & Odom & Gasol. John ? ________________________________ From: Ryan W To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 8:50:50 AM Subject: Re: retooling for the future I can remember no clamoring of the sort; at that point it was pretty clear Rondo was the superior player (for a while the Minny owner actually 'insisted' that Rondo had to be in the KG deal or there would be no deal) and that Delonte would never be able to play point.? Delonte's actually improved quite a bit since then into a real combo guard.? And Rondo's become a top 3 point guard, and as you say the face of the franchise.? Now, if we could only get the ball in his hands down the stretch of games.? The real trip down memory lane is much shorter and it goes all the way back to this past summer, when many were clamoring that Rondo wasn't worth more than 8 million, and that he'd never be an All-Star.? Ryan --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Robert Goudreau wrote: > From: Robert Goudreau > Subject: Re: retooling for the future > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 7:49 PM > Looking at the last three games when > we played the nobodys, there is no > no doubt that Rondo is the MAN. You > can put a "C" on anybody you want? on > that roster but rondo is still the MAN. > > Now sith allthe trade talk running > around, lets reflect for one little minute. > Does anyone still/want to make the > trade of Rondo for Delonte?? Can all > us posters remember the clamering > that went on when that trade was > made and it was West instead of > Rondo? > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Sun Feb 7 22:36:08 2010 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:36:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Message-ID: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dare I say it? Of course. Stick a fork in them, they're done. As presently constituted. Ray "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums before games. He's really pressing out there. The trade rumors have gotten to him. In Ainge, do you trust? Ray From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Sun Feb 7 22:48:16 2010 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:48:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Garnett For Arenas & The Wizards Lottery Pick Message-ID: <115080.73829.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> After the season. Garnett is shaked & baked. At least, Arenas, if paired with Rondo, should have a quality impact and would constitute one of the best backcourts in the league. All the whackjobby Arenas has to do is behave himself for one year, much like Artest on the Lakers, and the Celtics can move him out. In the meantime, the Wizards Lottery Pick should yield a quality, young athletic scoring forward, whom the Celtics can groom to replace Pierce. Ray From tsb33 at windstream.net Sun Feb 7 22:54:41 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:54:41 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are better than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst years ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only chance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt Ray on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I would sure be picking up the phone! A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it over and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running isos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done in this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will commit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them right now. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM To: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Dare I say it? Of course. Stick a fork in them, they're done. As presently constituted. Ray "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums before games. He's really pressing out there. The trade rumors have gotten to him. In Ainge, do you trust? Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 02:22:00 From douglas342 at aol.com Sun Feb 7 23:33:33 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:33:33 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> The questions: 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. Kobe. Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been filled by injured players. -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I ould sure be picking up the phone! A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them ight now. Troy -----Original Message----- rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf f Way Of The Ray ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Dare I say it? f course. tick a fork in them, they're done. s presently constituted. ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums efore games. e's really pressing out there. he trade rumors have gotten to him. n Ainge, do you trust? ay ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 2:22:00 ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Mon Feb 8 02:59:01 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:59:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> References: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <693871.39892.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. ________________________________ From: "douglas342 at aol.com" To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers The questions: 1.? Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a title as currently constituted?? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? 2.? Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger.? If you think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you can do.? Today was pretty disappointing.? It also makes you realize how few teams there are in any year that are real title contenders.? The Lakers, Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders?? Orlando?? I don't see Atlanta at that level.? I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. Kobe. Trivia point:? I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than 12 players able to play?? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been filled by injured players.? -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are etter than we are, healthy or not.? Yes, Ray is having one of his worst ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35?? I think not.? Yes, the only hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism.? I doubt ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I ould sure be picking up the phone! A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has.? Running sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done n this league against good teams.? We need some young athletes that will ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them ight now.? Troy -----Original Message----- rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf f Way Of The Ray ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Dare I say it? f course. tick a fork in them, they're done. s presently constituted. ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums efore games. e's really pressing out there. he trade rumors have gotten to him. n Ainge, do you trust? ay ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 2:22:00 ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 03:09:05 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:09:05 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <693871.39892.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> <693871.39892.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002071909l7d7f07f5obc6efb5851450a32@mail.gmail.com> Well, actually Ray is fine - why not to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - players that really suck as of late?.... :( Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get healthy first, then judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's always wide open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the very top of the food chain. Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean the lottery. Wake up and smell the roses... AG On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV wrote: > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > To: celtics at igtc.com > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > The questions: > > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? > > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few > teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. > Kobe. > > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but > either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than > 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been > filled by injured players. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I > ould sure be picking up the phone! > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done > n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them > ight now. Troy > -----Original Message----- > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > f Way Of The Ray > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > Dare I say it? > f course. > tick a fork in them, they're done. > s presently constituted. > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums > efore games. > e's really pressing out there. > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > n Ainge, do you trust? > ay > > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 > 2:22:00 > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From jozersky at optonline.net Mon Feb 8 03:29:32 2010 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:29:32 +0000 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002071909l7d7f07f5obc6efb5851450a32@mail.gmail.com> References: <697892.23401.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><003801caa848$88e8f2c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer><8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com><693871.39892.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3f0c87181002071909l7d7f07f5obc6efb5851450a32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1538639344-1265599786-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-282790211-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> We need a young big man. Period. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Alex Goldblatt Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:09:05 To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Well, actually Ray is fine - why not to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - players that really suck as of late?.... :( Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get healthy first, then judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's always wide open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the very top of the food chain. Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean the lottery. Wake up and smell the roses... AG On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV wrote: > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > To: celtics at igtc.com > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > The questions: > > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? > > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few > teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. > Kobe. > > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but > either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than > 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been > filled by injured players. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I > ould sure be picking up the phone! > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done > n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them > ight now. Troy > -----Original Message----- > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > f Way Of The Ray > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > Dare I say it? > f course. > tick a fork in them, they're done. > s presently constituted. > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums > efore games. > e's really pressing out there. > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > n Ainge, do you trust? > ay > > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 > 2:22:00 > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Douglas342 at aol.com Mon Feb 8 05:32:46 2010 From: Douglas342 at aol.com (Douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:32:46 EST Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Message-ID: <152ba.44baf6c.38a0fbfe@aol.com> Well, as one who (still) thinks we should ride the ponies we have for the rest of the year, I think the reason to trade Ray is because his contract brings the best value. Pierce might be next most valuable, and KG last because he has two more years, and if he really is in decline, that's two years no one wants. But, again, I agree with you. The team is now intact for the first time this year. Let's see what happens in the next ten days, at least. In a message dated 2/7/2010 7:09:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, alex.goldblatt at gmail.com writes: Well, actually Ray is fine - why not to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - players that really suck as of late?.... :( Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get healthy first, then judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's always wide open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the very top of the food chain. Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean the lottery. Wake up and smell the roses... AG On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV wrote: > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > To: celtics at igtc.com > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > The questions: > > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? > > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few > teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. > Kobe. > > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but > either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than > 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been > filled by injured players. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I > ould sure be picking up the phone! > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done > n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them > ight now. Troy > -----Original Message----- > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > f Way Of The Ray > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > Dare I say it? > f course. > tick a fork in them, they're done. > s presently constituted. > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums > efore games. > e's really pressing out there. > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > n Ainge, do you trust? > ay > > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 > 2:22:00 > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 12:31:23 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: missing Leon In-Reply-To: <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <21607.87333.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> A reoccuring thought I have is: ?since Doc won't play Walker/Giddens/Hudson/SheldenW, why couldn't Leon Powe have held one of those spots? So what if he couldn't play - turns out we didn't need him to!! Best of luck to Leon - if we don't get any better I gotta root for him & Cleveland. Ellie --- On Sun, 2/7/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: From: douglas342 at aol.com Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers To: celtics at igtc.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 6:33 PM The questions: 1.? Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a title as currently constituted?? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? 2.? Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger.? If you think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you can do.? Today was pretty disappointing.? It also makes you realize how few teams there are in any year that are real title contenders.? The Lakers, Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders?? Orlando?? I don't see Atlanta at that level.? I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. Kobe. Trivia point:? I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than 12 players able to play?? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been filled by injured players.? -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are etter than we are, healthy or not.???Yes, Ray is having one of his worst ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35?? I think not.? Yes, the only hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism.? I doubt ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I ould sure be picking up the phone! A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has.? Running sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done n this league against good teams.? We need some young athletes that will ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them ight now.? Troy -----Original Message----- rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf f Way Of The Ray ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Dare I say it? f course. tick a fork in them, they're done. s presently constituted. ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums efore games. e's really pressing out there. he trade rumors have gotten to him. n Ainge, do you trust? ay ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 2:22:00 ______________________________________________ he Boston Celtics Mailing List eltics at igtc.com ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 8 13:29:10 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 8:29:10 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <8CC766518AF4D58-4600-19642@webmail-m011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100208082910.UQBQQ.311605.imail@eastrmwml48> I don't think they'll get their act together. Meanwhile, I don't know if the owners knowing the lowering of the cap (hard cap) will enable them to make any move bieng so far over it now. If they are willing to kep paying, I see a dire need to move Ray and anyone else not named Rondo. I don't care who it is, but if they plan on being a contender in the nexst few years, you have to have to replace the engine with some new plugs, distributor and battery. At this point I'd take those and a new ball for any of the players. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > The questions: > > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? > > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. Kobe. > > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been filled by injured players. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I > ould sure be picking up the phone! > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done > n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them > ight now. Troy > -----Original Message----- > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > f Way Of The Ray > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > Dare I say it? > f course. > tick a fork in them, they're done. > s presently constituted. > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums > efore games. > e's really pressing out there. > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > n Ainge, do you trust? > ay > > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 > 2:22:00 > > ______________________________________________ > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > eltics at igtc.com > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 8 13:33:14 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 8:33:14 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002071909l7d7f07f5obc6efb5851450a32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100208083314.8WJB1.311661.imail@eastrmwml48> Becasue their contracts aren't up, and no one will pay them that kind of money to give back a player who is producing and much younger. Allen, Scal and tony are thoe only ones (sorry, House, too) with expiring contracts. Next season is the year to get rid of Pierce and the following, Garnett. that's how the contracts were structured, to wxpire in successive years. ---- Alex Goldblatt wrote: > Well, actually Ray is fine - why not to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - > players that really suck as of late?.... :( > > Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get healthy first, then > judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's always wide > open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the very top of the > food chain. > > Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean the lottery. > Wake up and smell the roses... > > AG > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV wrote: > > > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > > > The questions: > > > > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) that this team can win a > > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it worth giving it a shot? > > > > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray Allen, could contend this year > > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade talks? > > > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull the trigger. If you > > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's fading fast), hold on, see > > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see what other tinkering you > > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It also makes you realize how few > > teams there are in any year that are real title contenders. The Lakers, > > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide contenders? Orlando? I don't see > > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root for Lebron James over St. > > Kobe. > > > > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress today other than Giddens, but > > either way, is this not the first game this year that the Cs had more than > > 12 players able to play? Before today, the 13th-15th/14th slots had been > > filled by injured players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TroySusieBrady > > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, Magic and Lakers are > > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is having one of his worst > > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I think not. Yes, the only > > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and athleticism. I doubt > > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin but if I was Danny I > > ould sure be picking up the phone! > > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, but after seeing it > > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as the team has. Running > > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th quarters will not get it done > > n this league against good teams. We need some young athletes that will > > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just simply don't have them > > ight now. Troy > > -----Original Message----- > > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > f Way Of The Ray > > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > Dare I say it? > > f course. > > tick a fork in them, they're done. > > s presently constituted. > > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or given a few valiums > > efore games. > > e's really pressing out there. > > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > > n Ainge, do you trust? > > ay > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > > eltics at igtc.com > > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10 > > 2:22:00 > > > > ______________________________________________ > > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > > eltics at igtc.com > > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 14:39:44 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:39:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002071909l7d7f07f5obc6efb5851450a32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <825932.68029.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Actually, Ray is the one to go. He's lost the ability to accurately judge his worth to the team and Doc Rivers the veteran enabler is right there with him, chastising his team when it plays selfish, no passing, no movement, no defense basketball while continuing to give the biggest minues to the biggest culprit. (Talk about mixed messages, Doc.) It's tough getting old. As we age, we all do our bit of denial, denying that we're not what we once were, or denying that we can recapture it if we only try harder. Ray's there. Ray still thinks he's an All-Star, Ray still thinks that he only has to shoot more jumpers in practice, hit the exercise bike a little longer, stay 15 extra minutes in the weight room and just keep at it and that eventually he'll post the #s he always posts. But it's too late--he's gotten old. So, we've got an aging All-Star trying to show himself and the world that he's got it. Instead of playing team-first basketball and sacrificing for the team, we have a player trying to prove something that goes beyond Ws and Ls. We have a player breaking off plays to go one-on-one, even when the smarter, better, more team-first play would have been to pass it back to the point guard. We have a player who, because he's lost a little speed and endurance because of age, can't get open in the first place, even with 3 picks and then who, when he still gets the pass but doesn't shoot because his legs are fatigued and he's well guarded, still refuses to do the right thing, instead trying to play pick-and-roll basketball even when it's clear to the rest of the world that his dribbling and decision-making talents are 2nd rate even on his best days. We have a player who continually plays with the ball, refuses to give it up to his point guard, and someone who only seemingly passes the ball when it leads to an assist. Rondo talked about multiple agendas on the team and how team-first spirit (ubuntu) was lacking. He was talking, first and foremost, about Ray Allen. Ray's got an agenda to prove himself, to prove he hasn't gotten old, and it's killing this team. So, yeah, I'm in favor of one of two things going forward. The easiest one involves benching Ray Allen. We need a ball mover on that 1st unit. Somebody who can defend his position, make smart plays with the ball, and be OK with not scoring some nights. We have enough scoring on that first unit. Paul and KG can take the bulk of the shots (and both should be shooting more) and Rondo's more than capable of picking up the scoring load if necessary (and doing so actually opens up the other parts of his game). I'm in favor of starting Marquis for Ray. Of course, this assumes Doc Rivers has the ability to stand up to a veteran player. So far, he can't do it. He lets 'Sheed shoot 3s with impunity and back during the second go-around with Antoine, Danny basically had to trade him away because Doc couldn't control him. Doc is a player's coach and veterans love to play for him--but if a veteran goes rogue and Doc needs to confront that veteran...well, don't expect Doc to win that war. So, that brings option #2. We gotta trade Ray Allen. Do it because he's not playing team first basketball and do it because our coach can't bring himself to bench an obviously faltering player. Do it for morale. Do it to wake everyone else up (especially the other veterans on this team). Do it because not only will it position us more favorably for the future, but do it because it'll possibly make us more formidable in the playoffs this year. So, yeah, I'm in favor of almost all the rumored deals. Iggy? Hell, yes. While he can't shoot like Ray, he could definitely fit into the coming Rondo era, giving Rondo a ultra-athletic, long-armed, good defending running mate to get out on the break with. Kevin Martin? Fuck yeah. Probably the easiest transition for the Cs, since Martin plays a similar game as Ray (but he's quicker and better off the dribble). Best part of that deal is that Ray would probably be bought out as well, meaning he could return. Hinrich and Thomas? You know what, yes, I'll do that deal too. Why? Addition by subtraction. Like I said above, we need a ball mover and a better defender on that first unit. Hinrich is both. He might have been a lesser player than Ray for most of his career, but the current version of Ray is pretty much equal to Hinrich at this point. And Thomas? Gives us an athletic big man off the bench, somebody who can get garbage points and block shots. Somebody to fill the void left by Leon. We miss that guy. Ryan --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > From: Alex Goldblatt > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 9:09 PM > Well, actually Ray is fine - why not > to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - > players that really suck as of late?.... :( > > Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get > healthy first, then > judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's > always wide > open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the > very top of the > food chain. > > Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean > the lottery. > Wake up and smell the roses... > > AG > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV > wrote: > > > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > > > The questions: > > > > 1.? Is it possible (not probable, but possible) > that this team can win a > > title as currently constituted?? I.e., is it > worth giving it a shot? > > > > 2.? Is it possible that this team, minus Ray > Allen, could contend this year > > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade > talks? > > > > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull > the trigger.? If you > > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's > fading fast), hold on, see > > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see > what other tinkering you > > can do.? Today was pretty disappointing.? It > also makes you realize how few > > teams there are in any year that are real title > contenders.? The Lakers, > > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide > contenders?? Orlando?? I don't see > > Atlanta at that level.? I guess I have to root > for Lebron James over St. > > Kobe. > > > > Trivia point:? I'm not sure who didn't dress > today other than Giddens, but > > either way, is this not the first game this year that > the Cs had more than > > 12 players able to play?? Before today, the > 13th-15th/14th slots had been > > filled by injured players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TroySusieBrady > > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > > > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, > Magic and Lakers are > > etter than we are, healthy or not.? Yes, Ray is > having one of his worst > > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35?? I > think not.? Yes, the only > > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and > athleticism.? I doubt > > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin > but if I was Danny I > > ould sure be picking up the phone! > > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, > but after seeing it > > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as > the team has.? Running > > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th > quarters will not get it done > > n this league against good teams.? We need some > young athletes that will > > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just > simply don't have them > > ight now.? Troy > > -----Original Message----- > > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > > f Way Of The Ray > > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > Dare I say it? > > f course. > > tick a fork in them, they're done. > > s presently constituted. > > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or > given a few valiums > > efore games. > > e's really pressing out there. > > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > > n Ainge, do you trust? > > ay > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > > eltics at igtc.com > > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - > Release Date: 02/07/10 > > 2:22:00 > > > > ______________________________________________ > > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > > eltics at igtc.com > > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From Eric at ericalbert.net Mon Feb 8 14:58:34 2010 From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:58:34 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Message-ID: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> I've been meaning to write a message about Ray Allen, but Ryan beat me to it, and did it much better, so I'll just re-hit the highlights: Ray costs us two to five baskets a game. He does this by insisting on bringing up the ball when he gets a rebound, which is unfathomable when he's six feet away from an all-star point guard. This means our offense starts three to six seconds late. Worse, our offense starts with the ball in Ray's hands, which is a disaster. Ray can get his own shot better than Eddie House, but so can I. While Ray's working to get his shot, he's hogging the ball, killing ball movement, and making it easy for the defense to read what's happening. But they don't have to read much, because lately (over a stretch of at least half a dozen games), Ray has taken to passing the ball *directly* to an opponent. Seriously: it's not like the other guy has stepped into the passing lane -- Ray just throws the ball to the other team. And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free throws! Now, Ray doesn't miss everything -- I mean, he's not Tony Allen. But he's no longer the stone cold killer of the past. And, on this team, that means he's the fifth option in the starting five. Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. -- Eric >Ryan W wrote: > >Actually, Ray is the one to go. He's lost the ability to accurately judge his worth to the team and Doc Rivers the veteran enabler is right there with him, chastising his team when it plays selfish, no passing, no movement, no defense basketball while continuing to give the biggest minues to the biggest culprit. (Talk about mixed messages, Doc.) > >It's tough getting old. As we age, we all do our bit of denial, denying that we're not what we once were, or denying that we can recapture it if we only try harder. Ray's there. Ray still thinks he's an All-Star, Ray still thinks that he only has to shoot more jumpers in practice, hit the exercise bike a little longer, stay 15 extra minutes in the weight room and just keep at it and that eventually he'll post the #s he always posts. But it's too late--he's gotten old. > >So, we've got an aging All-Star trying to show himself and the world that he's got it. Instead of playing team-first basketball and sacrificing for the team, we have a player trying to prove something that goes beyond Ws and Ls. We have a player breaking off plays to go one-on-one, even when the smarter, better, more team-first play would have been to pass it back to the point guard. We have a player who, because he's lost a little speed and endurance because of age, can't get open in the first place, even with 3 picks and then who, when he still gets the pass but doesn't shoot because his legs are fatigued and he's well guarded, still refuses to do the right thing, instead trying to play pick-and-roll basketball even when it's clear to the rest of the world that his dribbling and decision-making talents are 2nd rate even on his best days. We have a player who continually plays with the ball, refuses to give it up to his point guard, and someone who > only seemingly passes the ball when it leads to an assist. > >Rondo talked about multiple agendas on the team and how team-first spirit (ubuntu) was lacking. He was talking, first and foremost, about Ray Allen. Ray's got an agenda to prove himself, to prove he hasn't gotten old, and it's killing this team. > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of one of two things going forward. The easiest one involves benching Ray Allen. We need a ball mover on that 1st unit. Somebody who can defend his position, make smart plays with the ball, and be OK with not scoring some nights. We have enough scoring on that first unit. Paul and KG can take the bulk of the shots (and both should be shooting more) and Rondo's more than capable of picking up the scoring load if necessary (and doing so actually opens up the other parts of his game). I'm in favor of starting Marquis for Ray. > >Of course, this assumes Doc Rivers has the ability to stand up to a veteran player. So far, he can't do it. He lets 'Sheed shoot 3s with impunity and back during the second go-around with Antoine, Danny basically had to trade him away because Doc couldn't control him. Doc is a player's coach and veterans love to play for him--but if a veteran goes rogue and Doc needs to confront that veteran...well, don't expect Doc to win that war. So, that brings option #2. > >We gotta trade Ray Allen. Do it because he's not playing team first basketball and do it because our coach can't bring himself to bench an obviously faltering player. Do it for morale. Do it to wake everyone else up (especially the other veterans on this team). Do it because not only will it position us more favorably for the future, but do it because it'll possibly make us more formidable in the playoffs this year. > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of almost all the rumored deals. Iggy? Hell, yes. While he can't shoot like Ray, he could definitely fit into the coming Rondo era, giving Rondo a ultra-athletic, long-armed, good defending running mate to get out on the break with. Kevin Martin? Fuck yeah. Probably the easiest transition for the Cs, since Martin plays a similar game as Ray (but he's quicker and better off the dribble). Best part of that deal is that Ray would probably be bought out as well, meaning he could return. Hinrich and Thomas? You know what, yes, I'll do that deal too. Why? Addition by subtraction. Like I said above, we need a ball mover and a better defender on that first unit. Hinrich is both. He might have been a lesser player than Ray for most of his career, but the current version of Ray is pretty much equal to Hinrich at this point. And Thomas? Gives us an athletic big man off the bench, somebody who can get garbage points and block > shots. Somebody to fill the void left by Leon. We miss that guy. > >Ryan > >--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > >> From: Alex Goldblatt >> Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" >> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 9:09 PM >> Well, actually Ray is fine - why not >> to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - >> players that really suck as of late?.... :( >> >> Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get >> healthy first, then >> judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's >> always wide >> open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the >> very top of the >> food chain. >> >> Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean >> the lottery. >> Wake up and smell the roses... >> >> AG >> >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV >> wrote: >> >> > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" >> >> > To: celtics at igtc.com >> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM >> > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers >> > >> > >> > The questions: >> > >> > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) >> that this team can win a >> > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it >> worth giving it a shot? >> > >> > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray >> Allen, could contend this year >> > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade >> talks? >> > >> > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull >> the trigger. If you >> > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's >> fading fast), hold on, see >> > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see >> what other tinkering you >> > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It >> also makes you realize how few >> > teams there are in any year that are real title >> contenders. The Lakers, >> > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide >> contenders? Orlando? I don't see >> > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root >> for Lebron James over St. >> > Kobe. >> > >> > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress >> today other than Giddens, but >> > either way, is this not the first game this year that >> the Cs had more than >> > 12 players able to play? Before today, the >> 13th-15th/14th slots had been >> > filled by injured players. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: TroySusieBrady >> > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' >> > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm >> > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers >> > >> > >> > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, >> Magic and Lakers are >> > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is >> having one of his worst >> > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I >> think not. Yes, the only >> > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and >> athleticism. I doubt >> > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin >> but if I was Danny I >> > ould sure be picking up the phone! >> > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, >> but after seeing it >> > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as >> the team has. Running >> > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th >> quarters will not get it done >> > n this league against good teams. We need some >> young athletes that will >> > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just >> simply don't have them >> > ight now. Troy >> > -----Original Message----- >> > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com >> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] >> On Behalf >> > f Way Of The Ray >> > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM >> > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff >> > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers >> > Dare I say it? >> > f course. >> > tick a fork in them, they're done. >> > s presently constituted. >> > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or >> given a few valiums >> > efore games. >> > e's really pressing out there. >> > he trade rumors have gotten to him. >> > n Ainge, do you trust? >> > ay >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > eltics at igtc.com >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - >> Release Date: 02/07/10 >> > 2:22:00 >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > eltics at igtc.com >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > celtics at igtc.com >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > celtics at igtc.com >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 8 16:03:41 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:03:41 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> Message-ID: <20100208110341.LHZDO.863464.imail@eastrmwml38> I've said it, and echoed others' sentiments as well- the ball has to be in Rondo's hands. Ray or Paul bringing the ball up is idiotic. Whlie he's never been more valuable contarct wise, now is the time to move him. We ain't winning with the 3. No more big 3. ---- Eric Albert wrote: > I've been meaning to write a message about Ray Allen, but Ryan beat me to it, and did it much better, so I'll just re-hit the highlights: > > Ray costs us two to five baskets a game. He does this by insisting on bringing up the ball when he gets a rebound, which is unfathomable when he's six feet away from an all-star point guard. This means our offense starts three to six seconds late. > > Worse, our offense starts with the ball in Ray's hands, which is a disaster. Ray can get his own shot better than Eddie House, but so can I. While Ray's working to get his shot, he's hogging the ball, killing ball movement, and making it easy for the defense to read what's happening. But they don't have to read much, because lately (over a stretch of at least half a dozen games), Ray has taken to passing the ball *directly* to an opponent. Seriously: it's not like the other guy has stepped into the passing lane -- Ray just throws the ball to the other team. > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free throws! > > Now, Ray doesn't miss everything -- I mean, he's not Tony Allen. But he's no longer the stone cold killer of the past. And, on this team, that means he's the fifth option in the starting five. > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > -- Eric > > >Ryan W wrote: > > > >Actually, Ray is the one to go. He's lost the ability to accurately judge his worth to the team and Doc Rivers the veteran enabler is right there with him, chastising his team when it plays selfish, no passing, no movement, no defense basketball while continuing to give the biggest minues to the biggest culprit. (Talk about mixed messages, Doc.) > > > >It's tough getting old. As we age, we all do our bit of denial, denying that we're not what we once were, or denying that we can recapture it if we only try harder. Ray's there. Ray still thinks he's an All-Star, Ray still thinks that he only has to shoot more jumpers in practice, hit the exercise bike a little longer, stay 15 extra minutes in the weight room and just keep at it and that eventually he'll post the #s he always posts. But it's too late--he's gotten old. > > > >So, we've got an aging All-Star trying to show himself and the world that he's got it. Instead of playing team-first basketball and sacrificing for the team, we have a player trying to prove something that goes beyond Ws and Ls. We have a player breaking off plays to go one-on-one, even when the smarter, better, more team-first play would have been to pass it back to the point guard. We have a player who, because he's lost a little speed and endurance because of age, can't get open in the first place, even with 3 picks and then who, when he still gets the pass but doesn't shoot because his legs are fatigued and he's well guarded, still refuses to do the right thing, instead trying to play pick-and-roll basketball even when it's clear to the rest of the world that his dribbling and decision-making talents are 2nd rate even on his best days. We have a player who continually plays with the ball, refuses to give it up to his point guard, and someone who > > only seemingly passes the ball when it leads to an assist. > > > >Rondo talked about multiple agendas on the team and how team-first spirit (ubuntu) was lacking. He was talking, first and foremost, about Ray Allen. Ray's got an agenda to prove himself, to prove he hasn't gotten old, and it's killing this team. > > > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of one of two things going forward. The easiest one involves benching Ray Allen. We need a ball mover on that 1st unit. Somebody who can defend his position, make smart plays with the ball, and be OK with not scoring some nights. We have enough scoring on that first unit. Paul and KG can take the bulk of the shots (and both should be shooting more) and Rondo's more than capable of picking up the scoring load if necessary (and doing so actually opens up the other parts of his game). I'm in favor of starting Marquis for Ray. > > > >Of course, this assumes Doc Rivers has the ability to stand up to a veteran player. So far, he can't do it. He lets 'Sheed shoot 3s with impunity and back during the second go-around with Antoine, Danny basically had to trade him away because Doc couldn't control him. Doc is a player's coach and veterans love to play for him--but if a veteran goes rogue and Doc needs to confront that veteran...well, don't expect Doc to win that war. So, that brings option #2. > > > >We gotta trade Ray Allen. Do it because he's not playing team first basketball and do it because our coach can't bring himself to bench an obviously faltering player. Do it for morale. Do it to wake everyone else up (especially the other veterans on this team). Do it because not only will it position us more favorably for the future, but do it because it'll possibly make us more formidable in the playoffs this year. > > > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of almost all the rumored deals. Iggy? Hell, yes. While he can't shoot like Ray, he could definitely fit into the coming Rondo era, giving Rondo a ultra-athletic, long-armed, good defending running mate to get out on the break with. Kevin Martin? Fuck yeah. Probably the easiest transition for the Cs, since Martin plays a similar game as Ray (but he's quicker and better off the dribble). Best part of that deal is that Ray would probably be bought out as well, meaning he could return. Hinrich and Thomas? You know what, yes, I'll do that deal too. Why? Addition by subtraction. Like I said above, we need a ball mover and a better defender on that first unit. Hinrich is both. He might have been a lesser player than Ray for most of his career, but the current version of Ray is pretty much equal to Hinrich at this point. And Thomas? Gives us an athletic big man off the bench, somebody who can get garbage points and block > > shots. Somebody to fill the void left by Leon. We miss that guy. > > > >Ryan > > > >--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > > > >> From: Alex Goldblatt > >> Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > >> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 9:09 PM > >> Well, actually Ray is fine - why not > >> to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - > >> players that really suck as of late?.... :( > >> > >> Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get > >> healthy first, then > >> judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's > >> always wide > >> open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the > >> very top of the > >> food chain. > >> > >> Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean > >> the lottery. > >> Wake up and smell the roses... > >> > >> AG > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > >> > >> > To: celtics at igtc.com > >> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > >> > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > > >> > > >> > The questions: > >> > > >> > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) > >> that this team can win a > >> > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it > >> worth giving it a shot? > >> > > >> > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray > >> Allen, could contend this year > >> > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade > >> talks? > >> > > >> > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull > >> the trigger. If you > >> > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's > >> fading fast), hold on, see > >> > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see > >> what other tinkering you > >> > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It > >> also makes you realize how few > >> > teams there are in any year that are real title > >> contenders. The Lakers, > >> > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide > >> contenders? Orlando? I don't see > >> > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root > >> for Lebron James over St. > >> > Kobe. > >> > > >> > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress > >> today other than Giddens, but > >> > either way, is this not the first game this year that > >> the Cs had more than > >> > 12 players able to play? Before today, the > >> 13th-15th/14th slots had been > >> > filled by injured players. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: TroySusieBrady > >> > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > >> > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > >> > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > > >> > > >> > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, > >> Magic and Lakers are > >> > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is > >> having one of his worst > >> > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I > >> think not. Yes, the only > >> > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and > >> athleticism. I doubt > >> > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin > >> but if I was Danny I > >> > ould sure be picking up the phone! > >> > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, > >> but after seeing it > >> > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as > >> the team has. Running > >> > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th > >> quarters will not get it done > >> > n this league against good teams. We need some > >> young athletes that will > >> > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just > >> simply don't have them > >> > ight now. Troy > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > >> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > >> On Behalf > >> > f Way Of The Ray > >> > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > >> > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > >> > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > Dare I say it? > >> > f course. > >> > tick a fork in them, they're done. > >> > s presently constituted. > >> > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or > >> given a few valiums > >> > efore games. > >> > e's really pressing out there. > >> > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > >> > n Ainge, do you trust? > >> > ay > >> > > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > eltics at igtc.com > >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - > >> Release Date: 02/07/10 > >> > 2:22:00 > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > eltics at igtc.com > >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >celtics at igtc.com > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From douglas342 at aol.com Mon Feb 8 16:17:26 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:17:26 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <20100208110341.LHZDO.863464.imail@eastrmwml38> Message-ID: <8CC76F156BBA1DE-A90-20CA5@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Terrific posts of late - lots of well-expressed thoughts about a team at the crossroads. We may not win #18 this year or next year, but it's fun being a fan when you folks are out there posting like this. -----Original Message----- From: davidp4660 at cox.net To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:03 am Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers I've said it, and echoed others' sentiments as well- the ball has to be in Rondo's hands. Ray or Paul bringing the ball up is idiotic. Whlie he's never been more valuable contarct wise, now is the time to move him. We ain't winning with the 3. No more big 3. ---- Eric Albert wrote: > I've been meaning to write a message about Ray Allen, but Ryan beat me to it, and did it much better, so I'll just re-hit the highlights: > > Ray costs us two to five baskets a game. He does this by insisting on bringing up the ball when he gets a rebound, which is unfathomable when he's six feet away from an all-star point guard. This means our offense starts three to six seconds late. > > Worse, our offense starts with the ball in Ray's hands, which is a disaster. Ray can get his own shot better than Eddie House, but so can I. While Ray's working to get his shot, he's hogging the ball, killing ball movement, and making it easy for the defense to read what's happening. But they don't have to read much, because lately (over a stretch of at least half a dozen games), Ray has taken to passing the ball *directly* to an opponent. Seriously: it's not like the other guy has stepped into the passing lane -- Ray just throws the ball to the other team. > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free throws! > > Now, Ray doesn't miss everything -- I mean, he's not Tony Allen. But he's no longer the stone cold killer of the past. And, on this team, that means he's the fifth option in the starting five. > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > -- Eric > > >Ryan W wrote: > > > >Actually, Ray is the one to go. He's lost the ability to accurately judge his worth to the team and Doc Rivers the veteran enabler is right there with him, chastising his team when it plays selfish, no passing, no movement, no defense basketball while continuing to give the biggest minues to the biggest culprit. (Talk about mixed messages, Doc.) > > > >It's tough getting old. As we age, we all do our bit of denial, denying that we're not what we once were, or denying that we can recapture it if we only try harder. Ray's there. Ray still thinks he's an All-Star, Ray still thinks that he only has to shoot more jumpers in practice, hit the exercise bike a little longer, stay 15 extra minutes in the weight room and just keep at it and that eventually he'll post the #s he always posts. But it's too late--he's gotten old. > > > >So, we've got an aging All-Star trying to show himself and the world that he's got it. Instead of playing team-first basketball and sacrificing for the team, we have a player trying to prove something that goes beyond Ws and Ls. We have a player breaking off plays to go one-on-one, even when the smarter, better, more team-first play would have been to pass it back to the point guard. We have a player who, because he's lost a little speed and endurance because of age, can't get open in the first place, even with 3 picks and then who, when he still gets the pass but doesn't shoot because his legs are fatigued and he's well guarded, still refuses to do the right thing, instead trying to play pick-and-roll basketball even when it's clear to the rest of the world that his dribbling and decision-making talents are 2nd rate even on his best days. We have a player who continually plays with the ball, refuses to give it up to his point guard, and someone who > > only seemingly passes the ball when it leads to an assist. > > > >Rondo talked about multiple agendas on the team and how team-first spirit (ubuntu) was lacking. He was talking, first and foremost, about Ray Allen. Ray's got an agenda to prove himself, to prove he hasn't gotten old, and it's killing this team. > > > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of one of two things going forward. The easiest one involves benching Ray Allen. We need a ball mover on that 1st unit. Somebody who can defend his position, make smart plays with the ball, and be OK with not scoring some nights. We have enough scoring on that first unit. Paul and KG can take the bulk of the shots (and both should be shooting more) and Rondo's more than capable of picking up the scoring load if necessary (and doing so actually opens up the other parts of his game). I'm in favor of starting Marquis for Ray. > > > >Of course, this assumes Doc Rivers has the ability to stand up to a veteran player. So far, he can't do it. He lets 'Sheed shoot 3s with impunity and back during the second go-around with Antoine, Danny basically had to trade him away because Doc couldn't control him. Doc is a player's coach and veterans love to play for him--but if a veteran goes rogue and Doc needs to confront that veteran...well, don't expect Doc to win that war. So, that brings option #2. > > > >We gotta trade Ray Allen. Do it because he's not playing team first basketball and do it because our coach can't bring himself to bench an obviously faltering player. Do it for morale. Do it to wake everyone else up (especially the other veterans on this team). Do it because not only will it position us more favorably for the future, but do it because it'll possibly make us more formidable in the playoffs this year. > > > >So, yeah, I'm in favor of almost all the rumored deals. Iggy? Hell, yes. While he can't shoot like Ray, he could definitely fit into the coming Rondo era, giving Rondo a ultra-athletic, long-armed, good defending running mate to get out on the break with. Kevin Martin? Fuck yeah. Probably the easiest transition for the Cs, since Martin plays a similar game as Ray (but he's quicker and better off the dribble). Best part of that deal is that Ray would probably be bought out as well, meaning he could return. Hinrich and Thomas? You know what, yes, I'll do that deal too. Why? Addition by subtraction. Like I said above, we need a ball mover and a better defender on that first unit. Hinrich is both. He might have been a lesser player than Ray for most of his career, but the current version of Ray is pretty much equal to Hinrich at this point. And Thomas? Gives us an athletic big man off the bench, somebody who can get garbage points and block > > shots. Somebody to fill the void left by Leon. We miss that guy. > > > >Ryan > > > >--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > > > >> From: Alex Goldblatt > >> Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > >> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 9:09 PM > >> Well, actually Ray is fine - why not > >> to pull the trigger on KG or Paul - > >> players that really suck as of late?.... :( > >> > >> Actually - you guys suck as fans.. Let the team to get > >> healthy first, then > >> judge. When your #1 and #2 scoring options are out - it's > >> always wide > >> open. With KG, Paul, MD back - I still believe we're at the > >> very top of the > >> food chain. > >> > >> Speaking of positive: losing nos 1,2,7 normally should mean > >> the lottery. > >> Wake up and smell the roses... > >> > >> AG > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:59 PM, XSV > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Pull the trigger now, if its not too late. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" > >> > >> > To: celtics at igtc.com > >> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 3:33:33 PM > >> > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > > >> > > >> > The questions: > >> > > >> > 1. Is it possible (not probable, but possible) > >> that this team can win a > >> > title as currently constituted? I.e., is it > >> worth giving it a shot? > >> > > >> > 2. Is it possible that this team, minus Ray > >> Allen, could contend this year > >> > if we add one of the many names bandied about in trade > >> talks? > >> > > >> > If you think the current squad can't win, then pull > >> the trigger. If you > >> > think it can (and I've been an optimist, but it's > >> fading fast), hold on, see > >> > if Ray will take short money for next year, and see > >> what other tinkering you > >> > can do. Today was pretty disappointing. It > >> also makes you realize how few > >> > teams there are in any year that are real title > >> contenders. The Lakers, > >> > Cleveland for sure; are the Cs bona fide > >> contenders? Orlando? I don't see > >> > Atlanta at that level. I guess I have to root > >> for Lebron James over St. > >> > Kobe. > >> > > >> > Trivia point: I'm not sure who didn't dress > >> today other than Giddens, but > >> > either way, is this not the first game this year that > >> the Cs had more than > >> > 12 players able to play? Before today, the > >> 13th-15th/14th slots had been > >> > filled by injured players. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: TroySusieBrady > >> > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > >> > Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54 pm > >> > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > >> Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > > >> > > >> > Not sure it is quite that bad but yes, Cavs, Hawks, > >> Magic and Lakers are > >> > etter than we are, healthy or not. Yes, Ray is > >> having one of his worst > >> > ears ever, coincidence he is 34, almost 35? I > >> think not. Yes, the only > >> > hance we have this year is to move Ray for youth and > >> athleticism. I doubt > >> > ay on his own could get us Igguadala or Kevin Martin > >> but if I was Danny I > >> > ould sure be picking up the phone! > >> > A month ago, these type losses were eating me alive, > >> but after seeing it > >> > ver and over again, I have gotten used to it much as > >> the team has. Running > >> > sos and shooting jump shots in the 3rd & 4th > >> quarters will not get it done > >> > n this league against good teams. We need some > >> young athletes that will > >> > ommit to running the court with Rondo and we just > >> simply don't have them > >> > ight now. Troy > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > rom: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > >> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > >> On Behalf > >> > f Way Of The Ray > >> > ent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:36 PM > >> > o: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff > >> > ubject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > >> > Dare I say it? > >> > f course. > >> > tick a fork in them, they're done. > >> > s presently constituted. > >> > ay "Mighty Nervous" Allen either needs to be dealt or > >> given a few valiums > >> > efore games. > >> > e's really pressing out there. > >> > he trade rumors have gotten to him. > >> > n Ainge, do you trust? > >> > ay > >> > > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > eltics at igtc.com > >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> > ersion: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - > >> Release Date: 02/07/10 > >> > 2:22:00 > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > >> > he Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > eltics at igtc.com > >> > ttp://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >celtics at igtc.com > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 16:25:30 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:25:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> Message-ID: <581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing > wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses > are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence > in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's missing > layups. He's even missing free throws! Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with his quick shot, was enough. But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds to recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by driving more. Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball movement and offensive efficiency. A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's > his hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > -- Eric > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. Ryan From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 17:47:27 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:47:27 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> <581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the C's head office points in a few potential directions: 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very surprised if anything like that will work out. 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. AG On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing > > wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses > > are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence > > in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's missing > > layups. He's even missing free throws! > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this season, > not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of *why* he's > missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, especially after > coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 seconds. He used to only > need a fraction of space and that, combined with his quick shot, was enough. > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds to > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as before, > but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he can't convert > them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by driving more. > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, because > it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine scorer and > he's > done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his attempts to create > and use a pick and roll to get other people shots have been a poor use of > our resources and have led to a loss of ball movement and offensive > efficiency. > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the starting > lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays Ray on a nightly > basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's > > his hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > -- Eric > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more than > Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that shot attempts > and possession usage should break down roughly along the lines of best > offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of this team and Doc's > refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue to follow the > all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each shoot 12 times a > game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two wide-eyed, over-eager > youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's the only one who is still > BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury has made him more shot-shy than > EVER (which will get better when he gets better...and he will), and Rondo > and Perk have grown up into near All-Star level talents...meaning, we have > enough offense on the first unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter > defender to glue that unit together (which is why our chemistry has been > terrible). > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers to > chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are chucking at > career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a shot chucker could > chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed Wallace and Eddie House in Doc > River's offensive philosophy. > > Ryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From tsb33 at windstream.net Mon Feb 8 18:11:18 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:11:18 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com><581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us now & future is a no brainer!! Can we get Iguadola? Probably not. Can we get Martin? I think we can for salary relief. I think Tyrus Thomas can be had for about anything at this point. Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and do it now!! Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has a huge upside. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the C's head office points in a few potential directions: 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very surprised if anything like that will work out. 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. AG On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > throws! > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with his quick shot, was enough. > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > to > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by driving more. > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > movement and offensive efficiency. > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > -- Eric > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > Ryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 02:35:00 From douglas342 at aol.com Mon Feb 8 18:20:44 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:20:44 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com><581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> You bring up another whole kettle of worms here. Let's assume that the sun has set on the PGA era. One or more of them may be around for another year or two (and I sincerely hope that Pierce elects to retire as a Celtic), but they are no longer crucial to the team's championship hopes. We know Rondo and Perk are here to stay. Is there anyone else on this roster who you'd sign for, say, two years? Is Tony proving himself? Have we seen enough of Walker? I am also assuming that Wallace is gone after this year, absent some miracle. Scal is probably gone - he's in his last year, right? Ditto House. -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 10:11 am Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us now & future is a no brainer!! Can we get Iguadola? Probably not. Can we get Martin? I think we can for salary relief. I think Tyrus Thomas can be had for about anything at this point. Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and do it now!! Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has a huge upside. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the C's head office points in a few potential directions: 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very surprised if anything like that will work out. 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. AG On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > throws! > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with his quick shot, was enough. > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > to > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by driving more. > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > movement and offensive efficiency. > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > -- Eric > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > Ryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 02:35:00 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics = From shizzjr at hotmail.com Mon Feb 8 19:05:08 2010 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:05:08 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com><581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com>, <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>, <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Didn't they sign Wallace to a 3 year deal? How will he be gone? > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:20:44 -0500 > From: douglas342 at aol.com > > > You bring up another whole kettle of worms here. Let's assume that the sun has set on the PGA era. One or more of them may be around for another year or two (and I sincerely hope that Pierce elects to retire as a Celtic), but they are no longer crucial to the team's championship hopes. We know Rondo and Perk are here to stay. Is there anyone else on this roster who you'd sign for, say, two years? Is Tony proving himself? Have we seen enough of Walker? I am also assuming that Wallace is gone after this year, absent some miracle. Scal is probably gone - he's in his last year, right? Ditto House. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 10:11 am > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we > still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us > now & future is a no brainer!! Can we get Iguadola? Probably not. Can we > get Martin? I think we can for salary relief. I think Tyrus Thomas can be > had for about anything at this point. Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and > do it now!! Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has a > huge upside. Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Alex Goldblatt > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, > but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > AG > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > > throws! > > > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this > > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > > seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with > his quick shot, was enough. > > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > > to > > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as > > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > > can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by > driving more. > > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > > scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > > movement and offensive efficiency. > > > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > > starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > > > -- Eric > > > > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > > lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of > > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > > unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > > chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > > shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed > > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > 02:35:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > = > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ From noah.evans at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 19:28:47 2010 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:28:47 +0100 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> <581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <56a297001002081128v1f829d4aib4b3deb5ad4dbee@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone really know? With a potential lockout and hard cap on the horizon free agency may be a completely different landscape come this summer. On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:20 PM, wrote: > > ?You bring up another whole kettle of worms here. ?Let's assume that the sun has set on the PGA era. ?One or more of them may be around for another year or two (and I sincerely hope that Pierce elects to retire as a Celtic), but they are no longer crucial to the team's championship hopes. ?We know Rondo and Perk are here to stay. ?Is there anyone else on this roster who you'd sign for, say, two years? ?Is Tony proving himself? ?Have we seen enough of Walker? ?I am also assuming that Wallace is gone after this year, absent some miracle. ?Scal is probably gone - he's in his last year, right? ?Ditto House. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TroySusieBrady > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 10:11 am > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > Even if Ray and Paul ?agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we > still have little to no cap space!! ?We must have 13 players under contract > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us > now & future is a no brainer!! ?Can we get Iguadola? ?Probably not. ?Can we > get Martin? ?I think we can for salary relief. ?I think Tyrus Thomas can be > had for about anything at this point. ?Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and > do it now!! ?Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has a > huge upside. ? Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Alex Goldblatt > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, > but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > AG > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > >> >> >> --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: >> > >> > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open >> > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's >> > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter >> > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free >> > throws! >> >> Just to follow up on this point. ?Ray IS looking more to drive this >> season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of >> *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, >> especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 >> seconds. ?He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with > his quick shot, was enough. >> ?But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds >> to >> recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the >> defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel >> comfortable getting his shot off. ?He's getting the same looks as >> before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he >> can't convert them. ?Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by > driving more. >> ?Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, >> because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine >> scorer and he's ?done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his >> attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots >> have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball >> movement and offensive efficiency. >> >> A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the >> starting lineup. ?Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays >> Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. >> >> >> > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his >> > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. >> > >> > -- Eric >> > >> >> The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more >> than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that >> shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the >> lines of best offensive player to worst. ?But, given the makeup of >> this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue >> to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each >> shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two >> wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. ?Problem is, time has passed; Paul's >> the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury >> has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he >> gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near >> All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first >> unit. ?What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that >> unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). >> >> Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers >> to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are >> chucking at career lows. ?How much would a shot chucker chuck if a >> shot chucker could chuck shots? ?Just a little less than Rasheed >> Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. >> >> Ryan >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > 02:35:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > = > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 19:31:19 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:31:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997852.27796.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Options 2 and 3 don't make sense. We're a non-player in the free agent market whether we deal Ray or not, whether we bring him back on a low salary deal, or whether Pierce opts out. We're a non player unless we completely renounce Ray and Paul (Bird rights and all), and even then we wouldn't have max dollars to offer. So, basically, we have the MLE (which every team gets to use every year) and that's it. So, trading Ray is about the only real way to improve in the next 16 months. Outside of that, we go to war with what we have. That's why the Ray decision is so important and that's why Danny has to act boldly or risk a slow sink back down to mediocrity (or worse). Ryan --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > From: Alex Goldblatt > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 11:47 AM > Ray was openly asking for contract > extension, so obvious reluctance from the > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really > interesting for Sacto or > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone > has no high > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe > second largest > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams > seeking salary relief, > but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. > I'll be very > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in > works. Huge salary > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. > With Paul saying > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the > next few years, it > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial > flexibility for the > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if > there is any > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a > pretty unique > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big > fish. Simply > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > AG > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W > wrote: > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert > wrote: > > > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's > missing > > > wide-open threes. He's missing wide-open twos. > His misses > > > are *why* he's taking it to the hoop -- he's lost > confidence > > > in himself, no matter what he says. But then he's > missing > > > layups. He's even missing free throws! > > > > Just to follow up on this point.? Ray IS looking > more to drive this season, > > not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly > because of *why* he's > > missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs > anymore, especially after > > coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > seconds.? He used to only > > need a fraction of space and that, combined with his > quick shot, was enough. > >? But now, he's a little slower (given the defense > fractions of seconds to > > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his > jump (giving the > > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and > he doesn't feel > > comfortable getting his shot off.? He's getting > the same looks as before, > > but his physical skills have diminished to the point > that he can't convert > > them.? Like any one, he's trying to compensate > for this by driving more. > >? Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry > on the first unit, because > > it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's > a fine scorer and > > he's > >? done a good job getting to the rim this year; > but his attempts to create > > and use a pick and roll to get other people shots have > been a poor use of > > our resources and have led to a loss of ball movement > and offensive > > efficiency. > > > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray > out of the starting > > lineup.? Doc continues to ignore it and actually > overplays Ray on a nightly > > basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs > me. It's > > > his hogging the ball. That's what kills our > offense. > > > > > > -- Eric > > > > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting > more...shooting more than > > Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you > believe that shot attempts > > and possession usage should break down roughly along > the lines of best > > offensive player to worst.? But, given the makeup > of this team and Doc's > > refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue to > follow the > > all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 > each shoot 12 times a > > game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > wide-eyed, over-eager > > youngsters.? Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > the only one who is still > > BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury has made > him more shot-shy than > > EVER (which will get better when he gets better...and > he will), and Rondo > > and Perk have grown up into near All-Star level > talents...meaning, we have > > enough offense on the first unit.? What we lack > is a ball moving, perimeter > > defender to glue that unit together (which is why our > chemistry has been > > terrible). > > > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been > allowing two chuckers to > > chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those > chuckers are chucking at > > career lows.? How much would a shot chucker chuck > if a shot chucker could > > chuck shots?? Just a little less than Rasheed > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc > > River's offensive philosophy. > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From green00333444 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 19:40:12 2010 From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:40:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <997852.27796.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <226441.27589.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > So, trading Ray is about the only real way to improve in > the next 16 months.? Outside of that, we go to war with > what we have.? That's why the Ray decision is so > important and that's why Danny has to act boldly or risk a > slow sink back down to mediocrity (or worse).? The Celtics have already sunk back to mediocrity. Charles From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 8 19:40:53 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:40:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <56a297001002081128v1f829d4aib4b3deb5ad4dbee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <904661.86871.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It'll mean nothing to us, probably. The owners are looking to squeeze the superstar players, and bring down their salaries while limiting the maximum amount of guaranteed years. About the only thing we can expect is that there might be a work stoppage. I suppose there's a possibility a max-level player might get squeezed this summer (maybe Stoudamire), but unless that player finds Boston to be an attrative destination, I'm not sure of the motivation to take a discount and come here. As always, the warm weather, no-tax destinations will reap the rewards, not us. We might have been an attractive destination the last 2 seasons, but with the way the season's trending right now, I'm not so sure we're going to look like anything but an old, dying team. Who wants to join that? Again, it's all about what we can turn Ray Allen's contract into--both for this season and beyond. We must be bold, or we're going to be paralyzed into facing a long slow descent into irrelevance. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Noah Evans wrote: > From: Noah Evans > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 1:28 PM > Does anyone really know? With a > potential lockout and hard cap on the > horizon free agency may be a completely different landscape > come this > summer. > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:20 PM,? > wrote: > > > > ?You bring up another whole kettle of worms here. > ?Let's assume that the sun has set on the PGA era. ?One or > more of them may be around for another year or two (and I > sincerely hope that Pierce elects to retire as a Celtic), > but they are no longer crucial to the team's championship > hopes. ?We know Rondo and Perk are here to stay. ?Is there > anyone else on this roster who you'd sign for, say, two > years? ?Is Tony proving himself? ?Have we seen enough of > Walker? ?I am also assuming that Wallace is gone after this > year, absent some miracle. ?Scal is probably gone - he's in > his last year, right? ?Ditto House. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TroySusieBrady > > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > > Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 10:11 am > > Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > > > Even if Ray and Paul ?agree to play for the veteran's > minimum next year, we > > still have little to no cap space!! ?We must have 13 > players under contract > > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where > salary cap will be. > > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic > players that will help us > > now & future is a no brainer!! ?Can we get > Iguadola? ?Probably not. ?Can we > > get Martin? ?I think we can for salary relief. ?I > think Tyrus Thomas can be > > had for about anything at this point. ?Package Scal, > Tony, etc for him and > > do it now!! ?Thomas could really help us inside with > he ability and he has a > > huge upside. ? Troy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > > Of Alex Goldblatt > > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs > Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so > obvious reluctance from the > > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really > interesting for Sacto or > > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray > alone has no high > > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I > believe second largest > > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams > seeking salary relief, > > but they have very limited value in return, if any at > all. I'll be very > > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray > in works. Huge salary > > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench > player. With Paul saying > > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for > the next few years, it > > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial > flexibility for the > > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at > all. > > > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility > if there is any > > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a > pretty unique > > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a > big fish. Simply > > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > > > AG > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert > wrote: > >> > > >> > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's > missing wide-open > >> > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His > misses are *why* he's > >> > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence > in himself, no matter > >> > what he says. But then he's missing layups. > He's even missing free > >> > throws! > >> > >> Just to follow up on this point. ?Ray IS looking > more to drive this > >> season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, > but mainly because of > >> *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't > have the legs anymore, > >> especially after coming off 3 picks and running > full board for 14 > >> seconds. ?He used to only need a fraction of > space and that, combined with > > his quick shot, was enough. > >> ?But now, he's a little slower (given the defense > fractions of seconds > >> to > >> recover) and getting just a little less oomph on > his jump (giving the > >> defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), > and he doesn't feel > >> comfortable getting his shot off. ?He's getting > the same looks as > >> before, but his physical skills have diminished to > the point that he > >> can't convert them. ?Like any one, he's trying to > compensate for this by > > driving more. > >> ?Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry > on the first unit, > >> because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too > much. Ray's a fine > >> scorer and he's ?done a good job getting to the > rim this year; but his > >> attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get > other people shots > >> have been a poor use of our resources and have led > to a loss of ball > >> movement and offensive efficiency. > >> > >> A good coach would have recognized this and move > Ray out of the > >> starting lineup. ?Doc continues to ignore it and > actually overplays > >> Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his > dead legs deader. > >> > >> > >> > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that > bugs me. It's his > >> > hogging the ball. That's what kills our > offense. > >> > > >> > -- Eric > >> > > >> > >> The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting > more...shooting more > >> than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if > you believe that > >> shot attempts and possession usage should break > down roughly along the > >> lines of best offensive player to worst. ?But, > given the makeup of > >> this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is > passing, we continue > >> to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative > where the Big 3 each > >> shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in > the gaps like two > >> wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. ?Problem is, > time has passed; Paul's > >> the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured > right now), KG's injury > >> has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will > get better when he > >> gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk > have grown up into near > >> All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough > offense on the first > >> unit. ?What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter > defender to glue that > >> unit together (which is why our chemistry has been > terrible). > >> > >> Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been > allowing two chuckers > >> to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those > chuckers are > >> chucking at career lows. ?How much would a shot > chucker chuck if a > >> shot chucker could chuck shots? ?Just a little > less than Rasheed > >> Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive > philosophy. > >> > >> Ryan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - > Release Date: 02/08/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 21:09:00 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:09:00 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <20100208145842.246DCE1C07A@ignite.igtc.com> <581172.95191.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <3f0c87181002080947v49adf0f9sdef353f3a6185c41@mail.gmail.com> <005d01caa8ea$1cba1050$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002081309s7f469e40x86b0db4abef0daed@mail.gmail.com> "Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us now & future is a no brainer!!" I'm not sure what to call it, but can you imagine that in any trade it takes 2 parties to agree? Sacto has 11MM locked into Martin making him a great trading target in need for any high pick they wish. Salary-wise they will shave off KT and 'Reef's 14MM off the book no matter what. Add to it Moore with another 2MM. We have absolutely nothing to offer here. Of course, getting Nocioni (only contract they really would like to get rid of) and Martin would serve us great, I'm all for it!!! I always believed in miracles when I was 3 of so... Typically, you need a team being really desperate of getting rid of a player. We've seen it this season, like the situation with Capt Jax demanding the trade. Not the same case. AG On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:11 PM, TroySusieBrady wrote: > Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we > still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us > now & future is a no brainer!! Can we get Iguadola? Probably not. Can we > get Martin? I think we can for salary relief. I think Tyrus Thomas can be > had for about anything at this point. Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and > do it now!! Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has > a > huge upside. Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Alex Goldblatt > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from > the > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary > relief, > but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, > it > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > AG > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > > throws! > > > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this > > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > > seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined > with > his quick shot, was enough. > > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > > to > > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as > > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > > can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by > driving more. > > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > > scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > > movement and offensive efficiency. > > > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > > starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > > > -- Eric > > > > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > > lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of > > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > > unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > > chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > > shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed > > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > 02:35:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From davidp4660 at cox.net Mon Feb 8 22:21:02 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:21:02 -0500 Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002081309s7f469e40x86b0db4abef0daed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100208172102.4MMYV.295767.imail@eastrmwml45> I'm sure we will have several years to get under the cap when it is official. No one can expect any team to do it in a single season. Hate to be redundant, but it's time to either fish, or cut bait. Move Ray for anything that moves quickly and is younger. ---- Alex Goldblatt wrote: > "Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we > still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us > now & future is a no brainer!!" > > I'm not sure what to call it, but can you imagine that in any trade it takes > 2 parties to agree? Sacto has 11MM locked into Martin making him a great > trading target in need for any high pick they wish. Salary-wise they will > shave off KT and 'Reef's 14MM off the book no matter what. Add to it Moore > with another 2MM. > > We have absolutely nothing to offer here. Of course, getting Nocioni (only > contract they really would like to get rid of) and Martin would serve us > great, I'm all for it!!! I always believed in miracles when I was 3 of so... > > > Typically, you need a team being really desperate of getting rid of a > player. We've seen it this season, like the situation with Capt Jax > demanding the trade. Not the same case. > > AG > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:11 PM, TroySusieBrady wrote: > > > Even if Ray and Paul agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we > > still have little to no cap space!! We must have 13 players under contract > > and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. > > Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us > > now & future is a no brainer!! Can we get Iguadola? Probably not. Can we > > get Martin? I think we can for salary relief. I think Tyrus Thomas can be > > had for about anything at this point. Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and > > do it now!! Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has > > a > > huge upside. Troy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > Of Alex Goldblatt > > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers > > > > Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from > > the > > C's head office points in a few potential directions: > > > > 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or > > any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high > > value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest > > after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary > > relief, > > but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very > > surprised if anything like that will work out. > > > > 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary > > relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying > > that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, > > it > > might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the > > next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. > > > > 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any > > conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique > > situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply > > signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. > > > > AG > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > > > throws! > > > > > > Just to follow up on this point. Ray IS looking more to drive this > > > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > > > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > > > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > > > seconds. He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined > > with > > his quick shot, was enough. > > > But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > > > to > > > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > > > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > > > comfortable getting his shot off. He's getting the same looks as > > > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > > > can't convert them. Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by > > driving more. > > > Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > > > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > > > scorer and he's done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > > > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > > > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > > > movement and offensive efficiency. > > > > > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > > > starting lineup. Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > > > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > > > > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > > > > > -- Eric > > > > > > > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > > > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > > > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > > > lines of best offensive player to worst. But, given the makeup of > > > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > > > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > > > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > > > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters. Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > > > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > > > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > > > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > > > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > > > unit. What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > > > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > > > > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > > > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > > > chucking at career lows. How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > > > shot chucker could chuck shots? Just a little less than Rasheed > > > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Tue Feb 9 12:56:22 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:56:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers In-Reply-To: <8CC7702905EC001-10B8-25BD@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3749.13186.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> >Have we seen enough of Walker??? Nobody's seen enough of Walker, courtesy of Doc Rivers! One huge thing Danny did by getting KG was restore the championship allure, the promise of a title, making good players consider Boston for a destination. ?Unless the Cs make a 2nd half comeback and get to the EC finals, they risk losing that. ?Huge deal!! So many teams are looking for a big, a young big, a good young big - which we have in Perk. ?Would it ever make sense to trade him? Could Rondo take us to a title with a mediocre big and a star wing? ?Or is that folly. ?Gotta give some to get some. Would a change of scenery wake up Tyrus Thomas? ?I bet practicing against KG would shake some of the immaturity out of his head.?Even if KGs game is waning, he still has a mouth on him! ?At some point when he stops hanging his head for losing his legs, he could recover enough of his bark to be an effective defensive player/coach. ??I never particularly liked Ty Thomas' game, but just checked and he's only 23 or so - didn't realize he was so young so give him a bye for his current knuckleheadedness. ?? For wings, I'd like to see Nick Batum, Kevin Martin, or Martell Webster. ?Also Courtney Lee - like his size and ability. ? Let's go Cs! ?Manage the minutes, please, and give us a shot in the playoffs. Ellie --- On Mon, 2/8/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: From: douglas342 at aol.com Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers To: celtics at igtc.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 1:20 PM You bring up another whole kettle of worms here.? Let's assume that the sun has set on the PGA era.? One or more of them may be around for another year or two (and I sincerely hope that Pierce elects to retire as a Celtic), but they are no longer crucial to the team's championship hopes.? We know Rondo and Perk are here to stay.? Is there anyone else on this roster who you'd sign for, say, two years?? Is Tony proving himself?? Have we seen enough of Walker?? I am also assuming that Wallace is gone after this year, absent some miracle.? Scal is probably gone - he's in his last year, right?? Ditto House. -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 10:11 am Subject: RE: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Even if Ray and Paul? agree to play for the veteran's minimum next year, we still have little to no cap space!!? We must have 13 players under contract and that puts us right at $50-55 mil not knowing where salary cap will be. Trading Ray for a couple of nice, young ,athletic players that will help us now & future is a no brainer!!? Can we get Iguadola?? Probably not.? Can we get Martin?? I think we can for salary relief.? I think Tyrus Thomas can be had for about anything at this point.? Package Scal, Tony, etc for him and do it now!!? Thomas could really help us inside with he ability and he has a huge upside.???Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:47 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Celtics Are Now 1 - 8 vs Magic/Hawks/Lakers Ray was openly asking for contract extension, so obvious reluctance from the C's head office points in a few potential directions: 1. Trades: we have no high picks to make it really interesting for Sacto or any other young team looking for the fresh blood. Ray alone has no high value as a player, only his expiring contract (I believe second largest after T'Macs). That makes it attractive to only teams seeking salary relief, but they have very limited value in return, if any at all. I'll be very surprised if anything like that will work out. 2. What we discussed in the past: 2-3yrs MLE for Ray in works. Huge salary relief for us, retaining his services as a bench player. With Paul saying that he's ready for the pay cut to make it happen for the next few years, it might be pretty compelling option: gaining financial flexibility for the next season big FA hunt without losing anything at all. 3. Not signing back Ray at all. Might be a possibility if there is any conversation with any high-profile FAs. IMO, we have a pretty unique situation next year: we do not have to trade to land a big fish. Simply signing max (or close to it) SG/SF/big will do it. AG On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ryan W wrote: > > > --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Eric Albert wrote: > > > > And I haven't gotten to Ray's shot yet. He's missing wide-open > > threes. He's missing wide-open twos. His misses are *why* he's > > taking it to the hoop -- he's lost confidence in himself, no matter > > what he says. But then he's missing layups. He's even missing free > > throws! > > Just to follow up on this point.? Ray IS looking more to drive this > season, not necessarily *because* he's missing, but mainly because of > *why* he's missing, that is, because he doesn't have the legs anymore, > especially after coming off 3 picks and running full board for 14 > seconds.? He used to only need a fraction of space and that, combined with his quick shot, was enough. >? But now, he's a little slower (given the defense fractions of seconds > to > recover) and getting just a little less oomph on his jump (giving the > defense fractions of seconds to bother his shot), and he doesn't feel > comfortable getting his shot off.? He's getting the same looks as > before, but his physical skills have diminished to the point that he > can't convert them.? Like any one, he's trying to compensate for this by driving more. >? Sadly, this adjustment has killed the chemistry on the first unit, > because it makes the ball stick in Ray's hands too much. Ray's a fine > scorer and he's? done a good job getting to the rim this year; but his > attempts to create and use a pick and roll to get other people shots > have been a poor use of our resources and have led to a loss of ball > movement and offensive efficiency. > > A good coach would have recognized this and move Ray out of the > starting lineup.? Doc continues to ignore it and actually overplays > Ray on a nightly basis, something that makes his dead legs deader. > > > > Overall, though, it's not his shooting that bugs me. It's his > > hogging the ball. That's what kills our offense. > > > > -- Eric > > > > The irony, Eric, is that Ray should be shooting more...shooting more > than Eddie House and Rasheed Wallace, at least if you believe that > shot attempts and possession usage should break down roughly along the > lines of best offensive player to worst.? But, given the makeup of > this team and Doc's refusal to admit that TIME is passing, we continue > to follow the all-for-one, one-for-all narrative where the Big 3 each > shoot 12 times a game, and Rondo and Perk fill in the gaps like two > wide-eyed, over-eager youngsters.? Problem is, time has passed; Paul's > the only one who is still BIG (albeit injured right now), KG's injury > has made him more shot-shy than EVER (which will get better when he > gets better...and he will), and Rondo and Perk have grown up into near > All-Star level talents...meaning, we have enough offense on the first > unit.? What we lack is a ball moving, perimeter defender to glue that > unit together (which is why our chemistry has been terrible). > > Sadly, to keep our 2nd unit afloat, we've been allowing two chuckers > to chuck like there's no tomorrow, even when those chuckers are > chucking at career lows.? How much would a shot chucker chuck if a > shot chucker could chuck shots?? Just a little less than Rasheed > Wallace and Eddie House in Doc River's offensive philosophy. > > Ryan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/08/10 02:35:00 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics = _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 21:38:32 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:38:32 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby Message-ID: <3f0c87181002091338q2336c28cjf412d644b3ff1b30@mail.gmail.com> ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around Glen Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks ============================================================== I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory cigar right away!.... :) I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both 1 and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do believe he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down the road. AG From jozersky at optonline.net Tue Feb 9 21:43:48 2010 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:43:48 +0000 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091338q2336c28cjf412d644b3ff1b30@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0c87181002091338q2336c28cjf412d644b3ff1b30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Alex Goldblatt Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around Glen Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks ============================================================== I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory cigar right away!.... :) I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both 1 and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do believe he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down the road. AG _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 9 21:59:56 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:59:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091338q2336c28cjf412d644b3ff1b30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <314934.56519.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hold your horses, Alex. One of the better PGs in the league? (He can't get off his own bench right now). Can play the 1 and 2? (He's not even 6 foot tall). He's basically a better dribbling, shot-creating version of Eddie House, with the same defensive problems as Eddie (without the veteran savvy either). Trading a big for a small isn't a good idea in general, and we'd need a 2nd trade to bring in a decent 4th big off the bench. Eddie House is redundant as well, meaning we'd be looking to trade him for some big man help. Outside of Tyrus Thomas, I doubt you can get many big men at this time of the year (which is why Charlotte is interesting in Baby). Ryan --- On Tue, 2/9/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > From: Alex Goldblatt > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 3:38 PM > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are > discussing a trade revolving around Glen > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris > Broussard. > http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > > > ============================================================== > > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll > get my victory > cigar right away!.... :) > > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, > can play both 1 > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, > besides I do believe > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a > trade bait down the > road. > > AG > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Tue Feb 9 22:01:41 2010 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:01:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Done Deal Basically: Davis/Giddens for Augustin/Graham Message-ID: <950801.13178.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> According to Bill Simmons... As both Good Egg and I told you, management had had it with Davis' indiscretions, and we're looking to move him, but they did not want to give him away for nothing. He still, despite the various mishaps, had some value as a Big, and voila, the Boobcats were dying for a PF and LB had soured, as he usually does on his PGs. So, Augustin, who has a chance to be a terrific backup point and occassional starter, is a good acquisition by Ainge. Stephen Graham gives them a defensive SF, which they badly need. Meanwhile, JR Giddens could flourish under Larry Brown, as he's certainly a Brown type of tough defender. Ray From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 9 22:13:20 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:13:20 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us until he moved to the end of the bench. ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Goldblatt > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around Glen > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > > > ============================================================== > > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory > cigar right away!.... :) > > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both 1 > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do believe > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down the > road. > > AG > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Tue Feb 9 22:27:56 2010 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:27:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed Message-ID: <151636.41977.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Will Simmons be proven wrong? http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/02/bobcats-near-trade-deadline.html There's a report on espn.com that the Charlotte Bobcats and Boston Celtics are in trade talks involving Glen "Big Baby'' Davis. I'm told the two teams have talked, but I wouldn't be so certain Davis would be the guy the Bobcats covet. The Celtics need another guard who can knock down shots, which brings D.J. Augustin (or possibly Flip Murray) to mind. Obviously, the Bobcats would love to get Rasheed Wallace, a longtime favorite of coach Larry Brown, who hasn't played particularly well of late in Boston. The beauty of Wallace in Charlotte would be his wide skill set, You could pair him with any of three big men -- Tyson Chandler, Nazr Mohammed or Boris Diaw -- and he could blend with whatever strengths and weaknesses the other big man had. From noah.evans at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 22:42:38 2010 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 23:42:38 +0100 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <151636.41977.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <151636.41977.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297001002091442w7a94bb90jd92d462b6833a81d@mail.gmail.com> What's gotten into you Ray? That's good news. On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Way Of The Ray wrote: > Will Simmons be proven wrong? > > http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/02/bobcats-near-trade-deadline.html > > There's a report on espn.com that the Charlotte Bobcats and Boston Celtics are in trade talks involving Glen "Big Baby'' Davis. I'm told the two teams have talked, but I wouldn't be so certain Davis would be the guy the Bobcats covet. > > The Celtics need another guard who can knock down shots, which brings D.J. Augustin (or possibly Flip Murray) to mind. Obviously, the Bobcats would love to get Rasheed Wallace, a longtime favorite of coach Larry Brown, who hasn't played particularly well of late in Boston. > > The beauty of Wallace in Charlotte would be his wide skill set, You could pair him with any of three big men -- Tyson Chandler, Nazr Mohammed or Boris Diaw -- and he could blend with whatever strengths and weaknesses the other big man had. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 9 23:03:43 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:03:43 -0500 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <56a297001002091442w7a94bb90jd92d462b6833a81d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100209180343.7E0E5.339241.imail@eastrmwml47> Must be having a bad day. ---- Noah Evans wrote: > What's gotten into you Ray? That's good news. > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Way Of The Ray wrote: > > Will Simmons be proven wrong? > > > > http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/02/bobcats-near-trade-deadline.html > > > > There's a report on espn.com that the Charlotte Bobcats and Boston Celtics are in trade talks involving Glen "Big Baby'' Davis. I'm told the two teams have talked, but I wouldn't be so certain Davis would be the guy the Bobcats covet. > > > > The Celtics need another guard who can knock down shots, which brings D.J. Augustin (or possibly Flip Murray) to mind. Obviously, the Bobcats would love to get Rasheed Wallace, a longtime favorite of coach Larry Brown, who hasn't played particularly well of late in Boston. > > > > The beauty of Wallace in Charlotte would be his wide skill set, You could pair him with any of three big men -- Tyson Chandler, Nazr Mohammed or Boris Diaw -- and he could blend with whatever strengths and weaknesses the other big man had. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 9 23:17:04 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:17:04 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> Message-ID: <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback syndrome. And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's not our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big man. At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: >We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us >until he moved to the end of the bench. >---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alex Goldblatt > > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > > > > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around Glen > > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > > > http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory > > cigar right away!.... :) > > > > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both 1 > > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do believe > > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade > bait down the > > road. > > > > AG From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 23:36:43 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:36:43 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see only upside with getting rid of his contract. DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good 3pt range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that long. AG On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > syndrome. > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's not > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > man. > > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us until >> he moved to the end of the bench. >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Alex Goldblatt >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby >> > >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around >> Glen >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. >> > >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks >> > >> > >> > ============================================================== >> > >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory >> > cigar right away!.... :) >> > >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both >> 1 >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do >> believe >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down >> the >> > road. >> > >> > AG >> > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From douglas342 at aol.com Tue Feb 9 23:42:05 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:42:05 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47><0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CC77F89EFBC95B-4B4C-8613@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Lordy, it's the old "he's playing, hence he's being showcased" argument again. Williams was getting nothing done. Davis has elevated a weak enery level team to a mid-level energy team. Is he al all-star? Nope. Is he the useless slug you'd have us think? Nope. -----Original Message----- From: Alex Goldblatt To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 3:36 pm Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see only upside with getting rid of his contract. DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good 3pt range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that long. AG On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > syndrome. > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's not > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > man. > > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us until >> he moved to the end of the bench. >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Alex Goldblatt >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby >> > >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around >> Glen >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. >> > >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks >> > >> > >> > ============================================================== >> > >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory >> > cigar right away!.... :) >> > >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both >> 1 >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do >> believe >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down >> the >> > road. >> > >> > AG >> > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 9 23:47:29 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:47:29 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20100209184729.K09E2.339879.imail@eastrmwml47> Excuse me? Backup quarterback syndrome? ---- Kim Malo wrote: > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to > the end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup > quarterback syndrome. > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, > he's not our only young big man; he's not even the biggest > contributing young big man. > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > >We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us > >until he moved to the end of the bench. > >---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > > > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Alex Goldblatt > > > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > > > > > > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around Glen > > > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > > > > > http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > > > > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory > > > cigar right away!.... :) > > > > > > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both 1 > > > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do believe > > > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade > > bait down the > > > road. > > > > > > AG > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 9 23:49:04 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:49:04 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100209184904.KD134.339903.imail@eastrmwml47> Agreed. And regardless of what the other expert says, Williams is a better rebounder than Davis, and doesn't get his shot blocked anywhere near as often. ---- Alex Goldblatt wrote: > I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see > only upside with getting rid of his contract. > > DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been > starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain > - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid > scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good 3pt > range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He > was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that > long. > > AG > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > > > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the > > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > > syndrome. > > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's not > > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > > man. > > > > > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > > > >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us until > >> he moved to the end of the bench. > >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Alex Goldblatt > >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > >> > > >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around > >> Glen > >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > >> > > >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > >> > > >> > > >> > ============================================================== > >> > > >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory > >> > cigar right away!.... :) > >> > > >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both > >> 1 > >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do > >> believe > >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down > >> the > >> > road. > >> > > >> > AG > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Tue Feb 9 23:52:33 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:52:33 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <8CC77F89EFBC95B-4B4C-8613@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100209185233.K8BML.339959.imail@eastrmwml47> Right now, I'd rather have Williams in there than Sheed. As it stands now, this team won't win presently composed, unless a 180 degree turn is made. A trade has to be made, as the spark is not there-it's not even close to last year. this is the last year of our window, and it's almost closed. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > Lordy, it's the old "he's playing, hence he's being showcased" argument again. Williams was getting nothing done. Davis has elevated a weak enery level team to a mid-level energy team. Is he al all-star? Nope. Is he the useless slug you'd have us think? Nope. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Goldblatt > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 3:36 pm > Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > > > I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see > only upside with getting rid of his contract. > > DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been > starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain > - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid > scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good 3pt > range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He > was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that > long. > > AG > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > > > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the > > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > > syndrome. > > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's not > > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > > man. > > > > > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > > > >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us until > >> he moved to the end of the bench. > >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Alex Goldblatt > >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > >> > > >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around > >> Glen > >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > >> > > >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > >> > > >> > > >> > ============================================================== > >> > > >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my victory > >> > cigar right away!.... :) > >> > > >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play both > >> 1 > >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do > >> believe > >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait down > >> the > >> > road. > >> > > >> > AG > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From renrile at qualcomm.com Tue Feb 9 23:56:02 2010 From: renrile at qualcomm.com (Enrile, Roy) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:56:02 -0800 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF16181573ACBCF9@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com> I would love the move for Augustin. The kid has more guts & toughness than most starting PG's (or PFs) in the league, and this years C's need more of that. He stood up to K.G. (when Kevin was in his defensive player of the year season), and started talking trash, draining 3's & contested layups on our frontcourt & won a game for the Bobcats. He's more mature/tough than skilled soft ballplayers like Boobie Gibson, Tyron Lue. The other things DJ brings are 3pt range, IQ, safe ballhandling , I think he's gifted w/ Mo Williams level skills, which isn't bad. He says he patterned his game after Steve Nash. As for Baby, he gained weight during the hand injury, and he's purely offensive minded now showboating/strutting after layups. On D, he isn't nearly as vicious banging guys on blockouts/picks, or moving laterally/blocking shots, like he was when Leon was at his back competing with him. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good 3pt range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that long. AG From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 23:58:03 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:58:03 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <8CC77F89EFBC95B-4B4C-8613@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> <8CC77F89EFBC95B-4B4C-8613@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002091558g89f0810vb8bf858d7449936d@mail.gmail.com> No, I just believe that we can easily replace him - but it's been 3 years we've been playing without solid backup point. We do have much more problems because of it, going as far as playing MD at the 1 - and yet struggling because he's not a point, and has limited range. With 'Sheed around, getting rid of Baby is not that big of a deal. I'll take Sheldon with DJ at any given time instead of him. AG On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM, wrote: > > Lordy, it's the old "he's playing, hence he's being showcased" argument > again. Williams was getting nothing done. Davis has elevated a weak enery > level team to a mid-level energy team. Is he al all-star? Nope. Is he the > useless slug you'd have us think? Nope. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Goldblatt > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 3:36 pm > Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > > > I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see > only upside with getting rid of his contract. > > DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been > starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal strain > - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid > scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good > 3pt > range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. He > was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that > long. > > AG > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > > > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to the > > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > > syndrome. > > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's > not > > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > > man. > > > > > > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > > > >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us > until > >> he moved to the end of the bench. > >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Alex Goldblatt > >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > >> > > >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around > >> Glen > >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > >> > > >> > http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > >> > > >> > > >> > ============================================================== > >> > > >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my > victory > >> > cigar right away!.... :) > >> > > >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play > both > >> 1 > >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do > >> believe > >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait > down > >> the > >> > road. > >> > > >> > AG > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 00:11:46 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:11:46 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091558g89f0810vb8bf858d7449936d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1847634074-1265751843-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1249025848-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100209171320.BKXX7.338363.imail@eastrmwml47> <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> <3f0c87181002091536w39ee3aa1x3630b8be1bdf540d@mail.gmail.com> <8CC77F89EFBC95B-4B4C-8613@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> <3f0c87181002091558g89f0810vb8bf858d7449936d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002091611t1df074abr3daf4cf9fd325348@mail.gmail.com> "He stood up to K.G. (when Kevin was in his defensive player of the year season), and started talking trash, draining 3's & contested layups on our frontcourt & won a game for the Bobcats." Yeah, that was some game! I never though Felton will win the starting gig over him. AG On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > No, I just believe that we can easily replace him - but it's been 3 years > we've been playing without solid backup point. We do have much more problems > because of it, going as far as playing MD at the 1 - and yet struggling > because he's not a point, and has limited range. With 'Sheed around, getting > rid of Baby is not that big of a deal. > > I'll take Sheldon with DJ at any given time instead of him. > > AG > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM, wrote: > >> >> Lordy, it's the old "he's playing, hence he's being showcased" argument >> again. Williams was getting nothing done. Davis has elevated a weak enery >> level team to a mid-level energy team. Is he al all-star? Nope. Is he the >> useless slug you'd have us think? Nope. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alex Goldblatt >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 3:36 pm >> Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby >> >> >> I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see >> only upside with getting rid of his contract. >> >> DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been >> starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal >> strain >> - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid >> scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good >> 3pt >> range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. >> He >> was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that >> long. >> >> AG >> >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: >> >> > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to >> the >> > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback >> > syndrome. >> > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's >> not >> > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big >> > man. >> > >> > >> > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: >> > >> >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us >> until >> >> he moved to the end of the bench. >> >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: >> >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man >> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Alex Goldblatt >> >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 >> >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby >> >> > >> >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around >> >> Glen >> >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. >> >> > >> >> >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ============================================================== >> >> > >> >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my >> victory >> >> > cigar right away!.... :) >> >> > >> >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play >> both >> >> 1 >> >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do >> >> believe >> >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait >> down >> >> the >> >> > road. >> >> > >> >> > AG >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> > celtics at igtc.com >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 00:16:06 2010 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:16:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: DJ Message-ID: <502120.23789.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Augustine is from U. Texas, I think. Those guys don't have a good track record--with exceptions like K. Durant. I do like Stephen Graham as a tough floor man, but he's somewhat like Tony and we need a shooter at that position. Davis is beginning to contribute more; I'd want at least a shooter for him. We're better than we've been playing, but winning now depends on keeping a fast-paced team on the court. A combo trade that sent Ray with another or two might bring a decent 2/3 with shooting and speed. Cheers, Gene From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 10 00:23:38 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:23:38 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091611t1df074abr3daf4cf9fd325348@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100209192338.0DXDD.340383.imail@eastrmwml47> Put me down for DJ, too, with Sheldon Williams. It's only a matter of time before something happens to Rondo, and then we are in the toilet. Even with Daniels back, he's not a great pg. No one on the roster is a good back up pg- Both Allen's suck at it, forget Pierce, and House is a 2g in pg body. Player's like Baby are a dime a dozen. Even though Danny drafted what turned out to be a pretty good pick, he can be replaced. A player who can naturally play the point or switch to the two, is a valuable asset. >From the backup quarterback. ---- Alex Goldblatt wrote: > "He stood up to K.G. (when Kevin was in his defensive player of the year > season), and started talking trash, draining 3's & contested layups on our > frontcourt & won a game for the Bobcats." > > Yeah, that was some game! I never though Felton will win the starting gig > over him. > AG > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > > > No, I just believe that we can easily replace him - but it's been 3 years > > we've been playing without solid backup point. We do have much more problems > > because of it, going as far as playing MD at the 1 - and yet struggling > > because he's not a point, and has limited range. With 'Sheed around, getting > > rid of Baby is not that big of a deal. > > > > I'll take Sheldon with DJ at any given time instead of him. > > > > AG > > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM, wrote: > > > >> > >> Lordy, it's the old "he's playing, hence he's being showcased" argument > >> again. Williams was getting nothing done. Davis has elevated a weak enery > >> level team to a mid-level energy team. Is he al all-star? Nope. Is he the > >> useless slug you'd have us think? Nope. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Alex Goldblatt > >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 3:36 pm > >> Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > >> > >> > >> I guess you all know my take on BigGut: I really do not like him, and see > >> only upside with getting rid of his contract. > >> > >> DJ: he's a scoring point guard (not Rondo, of course), and should've been > >> starting for the Charlotte long time ago if not his severe abdominal > >> strain > >> - forget about comparing him to House, not even close. He also has a solid > >> scoring shooting touch (both off the dribble and spotup with a very good > >> 3pt > >> range). I see tons of positives here, while having Baby around has none. > >> He > >> was clearly showcased as of late - that's why Sheldon was shelved for that > >> long. > >> > >> AG > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > >> > >> > No he didn't. He was playing poorly, which is part of why he moved to > >> the > >> > end of the bench. You're suffering from a case of backup quarterback > >> > syndrome. > >> > And Baby is exactly 2 years younger than our starting center. No, he's > >> not > >> > our only young big man; he's not even the biggest contributing young big > >> > man. > >> > > >> > > >> > At 05:13 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > >> > > >> >> We still have Sheldon Williams, who used to play pretty well for us > >> until > >> >> he moved to the end of the bench. > >> >> ---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: > >> >> > yeah, thatll solve the problem. Let's trade our only young big man > >> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: Alex Goldblatt > >> >> > Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:38:32 > >> >> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> >> > Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > >> >> > > >> >> > ESPN: The Celtics and Bobcats are discussing a trade revolving around > >> >> Glen > >> >> > Davis and D.J. Augustin, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ============================================================== > >> >> > > >> >> > I LOVE this move! If Trader Danny will pull it out - I'll get my > >> victory > >> >> > cigar right away!.... :) > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm a huge fan of DJ: one of the better PGs in the league, can play > >> both > >> >> 1 > >> >> > and 2. Would solve 2 huge problems for us right away, besides I do > >> >> believe > >> >> > he's a solid starter in the very near future - even as a trade bait > >> down > >> >> the > >> >> > road. > >> >> > > >> >> > AG > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> > celtics at igtc.com > >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >> celtics at igtc.com > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Mencius01 at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 00:45:35 2010 From: Mencius01 at gmail.com (Mencius) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:45:35 -0700 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed Message-ID: Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. Charlotte fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin. Their objections are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them). And one commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May go?' I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people. After missing all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile. To my eyes, at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two. He's the only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds. The rest of our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive rebound. I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot garbage. I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity about the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too. I'm hoping that means Ray's replacement. I'd hate to go into next season with only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4. It'd be like 1989 all over again. No thanks. From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 10 01:00:39 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:00:39 -0500 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100209200039.SOTO8.340933.imail@eastrmwml47> Davis has no lift whatsoever. He gets more shots blocked near the hoop than anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping ability (save for Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what was an easy two by Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot away like flies. He had at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone. For his size, I expected a better rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is the future of this team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. ---- Mencius wrote: > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. Charlotte > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin. Their objections > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them). And one > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May go?' > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people. After missing > all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile. To my eyes, > at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two. He's the > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds. The rest of > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive rebound. > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot garbage. > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity about > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too. I'm > hoping that means Ray's replacement. I'd hate to go into next season with > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4. It'd be like 1989 all > over again. No thanks. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 10 01:01:57 2010 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:01:57 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <20100209184729.K09E2.339879.imail@eastrmwml47> References: <0KXL00JPQKQP1462@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> <20100209184729.K09E2.339879.imail@eastrmwml47> Message-ID: <0KXL009A0PL81C93@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> At 06:47 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: >Excuse me? Backup quarterback syndrome? The backup quarterback looks better than he is and better than the guys playing, not because he is, but because he's been on the bench (where you can revel in his "potential") vs in the game doing things to frustrate, annoy, disappoint, etc. Constant phenomenon in all sports, just started to get publicized as such over the guys holding the clipboards. Kim From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 10 01:21:33 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:21:33 -0500 Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <0KXL009A0PL81C93@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20100209202133.LI90W.341196.imail@eastrmwml47> I know what it means. I just didn't think the comment was called for. I made a comment about a player who I think we could use if it means getting something that we need more (insurance for Rondo) and who could fill multiple roles. Like I told a number of people, if you don't like the post, simply ignore it. I stand by my opinion of Williams and would rather use him at backup pf and trade Davis for a more pressing need, even if it means another player going with him. As I said before, Davis has no lift-nada- and can't rebound worth a lick for his size. I have no problem with you disagreeing, nor am I attempting to sway anyone my way. I just think your responses tend to be a little snippy, but if that's how you make a point, so be it. ---- Kim Malo wrote: > At 06:47 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > >Excuse me? Backup quarterback syndrome? > > The backup quarterback looks better than he is and better than the > guys playing, not because he is, but because he's been on the bench > (where you can revel in his "potential") vs in the game doing things > to frustrate, annoy, disappoint, etc. Constant phenomenon in all > sports, just started to get publicized as such over the guys holding > the clipboards. > Kim > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From bosox18 at charter.net Wed Feb 10 02:01:04 2010 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:01:04 -0500 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <20100209200039.SOTO8.340933.imail@eastrmwml47> References: <20100209200039.SOTO8.340933.imail@eastrmwml47> Message-ID: <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked -- but he played a lot more minutes. Augustin is a big talent -- a top ten draft pick who just happens to be in Larry Brown's dog house. He doesn't quite fit here, since we've got a young point guard already, but he's more than enough value for Big Baby, who is never going to be a starter for a good team. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of davidp4660 at cox.net Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:01 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Mencius Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed Davis has no lift whatsoever. He gets more shots blocked near the hoop than anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping ability (save for Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what was an easy two by Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot away like flies. He had at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone. For his size, I expected a better rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is the future of this team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. ---- Mencius wrote: > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. Charlotte > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin. Their objections > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them). And one > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May go?' > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people. After missing > all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile. To my eyes, > at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two. He's the > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds. The rest of > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive rebound. > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot garbage. > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity about > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too. I'm > hoping that means Ray's replacement. I'd hate to go into next season with > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4. It'd be like 1989 all > over again. No thanks. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Wed Feb 10 02:04:06 2010 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:04:06 EST Subject: Rumor mill: Davis for Augustin Message-ID: <1da76.68391831.38a36e16@aol.com> _Rumor mill: Davis for Augustin_ (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4671683/rumor-mill-davis-for-augustin) By Chris Forsberg ESPN's Chris Broussard, citing league sources, reported Tuesday that the _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) and _Charlotte Bobcats_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha) are talking about a trade centered around a swap of forward _Glen Davis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) and guard _D.J. Augustin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3415) . _From Broussard_ (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks) : Sources cautioned that nothing is imminent, but said the clubs are having discussions. The Bobcats have been searching for a power forward, and the 6-9 Davis could be their man. The Celtics, meanwhile, have been longing for a backup point guard, and Augustin, who's fallen out of favor with Charlotte coach Larry Brown, would be more than adequate. A straight-up trade would not work because Davis is a base-year compensation player, so other players would have to be involved to meet the financial requirements. That could be a sticking point in the deal. While teams don't typically trade big for small, Boston is a bit aggravated with Davis, who's had a few off-the-court problems this season. Most notably, he missed the first 27 games of the season after breaking his thumb in an early morning scuffle with a friend. The Celtics have been rumored to be shopping _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) , and while league sources insist the word "shopping'' is too strong, they say the shooting guard is definitely available. Few believe he'll be traded before the Feb. 18 deadline, though, because the Celtics aren't likely to get a better player in return. This is one of many trade rumors sure to swirl as the Feb. 18 deadline nears. Let's break it down: Does it work?: Utilizing the _ESPN NBA Trade Machine_ (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) , this deal won't work straight up, but one version that does come back successful is Davis and _Shelden Williams_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3040) for Augustin. While Davis' base salary for this season is $3 million, his trade value is sliced in half due to base year compensation. When coupled with Williams' $825,497, it's enough to swap for Augustin's $2.37 million deal. (_Bill Simmons_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/simmons/index) points out _another version_ (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygr47q8) that works). ((_sportsguy33_ (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33) Baby + Giddens for Augustin + Graham. Done. Call it in. Good deal for both teams. I like Augustin. )) Does it make sense?: Our gut says this one doesn't make sense for Boston. Do the Celtics need a backup point guard? Yes. But the team also just went 28 games without _Marquis Daniels_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2200) , who should resume primary ball-handling responsibilities off the bench as his surgically-repaired left thumb heals. If the team was desperate for a backup ball-handler, it would seem they would have pursued this sort of swap sooner. What's more, Boston seemingly needs Davis' depth in the frontcourt given that Williams has been dropped from the rotation (nine straight DNPs) and _Rasheed Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883) continues to be ineffective. Losing Davis would elevate _Brian Scalabrine_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1021) to primary backup at the four spot. Final thoughts: Despite some frustrating actions this season (off-court fight before season started; obscene comment to fan in Detroit), Davis appears to be coming on strong lately. He's getting more comfortable as his right thumb heals and he's added great energy off the bench (more than once rec ently he's hauled in multiple offensive rebounds on a possession). Davis talked at length Monday about his desire to increase his role and return to the type of indispensable presence he was when _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) was injured in last year's postseason (more on that Wednesday). We just don't see this as a move that improves the Celtics moving forward. They can find more economical ways to fill the void at backup point guard if forced to look outside their locker room. Thank you for voting! Yes 40% No 60% From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Wed Feb 10 03:03:27 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:03:27 -0500 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> References: <20100209200039.SOTO8.340933.imail@eastrmwml47> <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> Message-ID: <3f0c87181002091903v614bc2bcu24f930acdf7b202d@mail.gmail.com> "To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked -- but he played a lot more minutes" Toine's blocks always been swatting in mid-motion using his quick hands - basically much closer to a steal rather than actual blocking (just like Rondo's pocking from behind). Baby has no lift or quick hands per say - but his timing is not bad. Saying that, I'll take even Delonte West's shotblocking over his any time of the day - he simply has no athletic ability whatsoever. AG On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Steve Ouellette wrote: > To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked -- but he played a lot > more minutes. > > Augustin is a big talent -- a top ten draft pick who just happens to be in > Larry Brown's dog house. He doesn't quite fit here, since we've got a young > point guard already, but he's more than enough value for Big Baby, who is > never going to be a starter for a good team. > > Steve O > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of davidp4660 at cox.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:01 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Mencius > Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed > > Davis has no lift whatsoever. He gets more shots blocked near the hoop > than > anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. > I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping ability (save for > Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what was an easy two by > Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot away like flies. He had > at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone. For his size, I expected a better > rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is the future of this > team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. > Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. > ---- Mencius wrote: > > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. > Charlotte > > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin. Their objections > > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them). And one > > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May > go?' > > > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people. After > missing > > all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb > > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile. To my > eyes, > > at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two. He's > the > > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds. The rest of > > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive > rebound. > > > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby > > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot > garbage. > > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity > about > > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). > > > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too. I'm > > hoping that means Ray's replacement. I'd hate to go into next season > with > > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4. It'd be like 1989 > all > > over again. No thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Feb 10 03:20:42 2010 From: jlyell at verizon.net (XSV) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:20:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> References: <20100209200039.SOTO8.340933.imail@eastrmwml47> <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> Message-ID: <174318.25563.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They don't have much other than Stephen Jackson We need to give up Ray?& Sheed. We are just too old. Some that work in real Gm Sheed ,?baby & Tony for Augustin & Stephen jackson. I like this one . Then move Ray and filler?for: Ellis & Radman or Ray & eddie for Ellis , Magette & Randolph. Both work, Isn't Eddie from the oakland area? To get young value we will likley need to take a stinker contract ? Ray & Walker?for Harrington Nate Robinson??& Duhon? & NY is looking to dump Ray & walker?for Jamison & Caron Butler Allen & Walker for martin, Nocioni & Udoka ________________________________ From: Steve Ouellette To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked -- but he played a lot more minutes. Augustin is a big talent -- a top ten draft pick who just happens to be in Larry Brown's dog house. He doesn't quite fit here, since we've got a young point guard already, but he's more than enough value for Big Baby, who is never going to be a starter for a good team. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of davidp4660 at cox.net Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:01 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Mencius Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed Davis has no lift whatsoever.? He gets more shots blocked near the hoop than anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping ability (save for Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what was an easy two by Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot away like flies. He had at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone.? For his size, I expected a better rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is the future of this team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. ---- Mencius wrote: > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. Charlotte > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin.? Their objections > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them).? And one > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May go?' > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people.? After missing > all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile.? To my eyes, > at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two.? He's the > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds.? The rest of > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive rebound. > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot garbage. > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity about > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too.? I'm > hoping that means Ray's replacement.? I'd hate to go into next season with > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4.? It'd be like 1989 all > over again.? No thanks. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Wed Feb 10 03:31:13 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:31:13 -0500 Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <406345E6E46C45A3986A0823A2306EAD@StevePC> Message-ID: <20100209223113.93I4T.622532.imail@eastrmwml28> Right, Steve, but Antoine also grabbed a boat load of rebounds, which Davis doesn't. And Davis doesn't have the all-around talent that Antoine once had (even at the same ages). Of the two, Antoine was a far better player, and I know you'd agree. Maybe Davis has small hands. In any event, Davis should be power dunking the ball, which he has enough lift for. Anyone trying to block that type of shot would break a wrist, or get their hand torn off. When you are 6' 8" and have average arm length, you should be able to dunk at will. Hell, I was 5' 11" and was able to dunk a volley ball (couldn't quite palm the basketball) when I was in my early 20's. And I'm a white guy (White Men Can't Jump), and not trying to sound racist. ---- Steve Ouellette wrote: > To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked -- but he played a lot > more minutes. > > Augustin is a big talent -- a top ten draft pick who just happens to be in > Larry Brown's dog house. He doesn't quite fit here, since we've got a young > point guard already, but he's more than enough value for Big Baby, who is > never going to be a starter for a good team. > > Steve O > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of davidp4660 at cox.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:01 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Mencius > Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed > > Davis has no lift whatsoever. He gets more shots blocked near the hoop than > anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. > I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping ability (save for > Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what was an easy two by > Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot away like flies. He had > at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone. For his size, I expected a better > rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is the future of this > team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. > Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. > ---- Mencius wrote: > > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the reader comments. > Charlotte > > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for Augustin. Their objections > > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who can blame them). And one > > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when we just let Sean May go?' > > > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a lot of people. After > missing > > all that time, he clearly played with some fear of getting his thumb > > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off for awhile. To my eyes, > > at least, he's been rounding back into form the last week or two. He's > the > > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort of rebounds. The rest of > > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive rebound after offensive > rebound. > > > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we saw last spring that Baby > > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like we're giving up hot garbage. > > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that player because of timidity > about > > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of it). > > > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would be soon to drop too. I'm > > hoping that means Ray's replacement. I'd hate to go into next season with > > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining Old 4. It'd be like 1989 > all > > over again. No thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 09:53:53 2010 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:53:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Good grief, sweet Charlotte Message-ID: <725645.47862.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I don't know DJ Augustin from St Augustine ... or DJ Jazzy Jeff ... but going strictly by, you know, the "numbers," I see a guy who's listed at 6', which means he's really 5'10 or 5'11, and shoots a sizzling 37 percent from the field. Can't imagine why he would end up in Larry Brown's dog house. Do the initials stand for Defective Jumpshot? We certainly could use a good backup to spell Rondo, but is a second-year player that guy? Also hard to see two guys that small playing together (which is one of many reasons the Monta Ellis chatter I see on this list makes no sense to me). So if Rondo's playing 35 mpg or so, how much does that leave for Augustin? Stephen Graham is a serviceable depth option at the three, but with Daniels finally healthy, I'm not sure it makes sense at this point. I could care less about Giddens, but this sounds like it's basically taking a good young big (yeah, come on people, he doesn't suck ass) off a team that isn't exactly loaded with them and bringing in a midget backup chucker and another middling swingman. Where do I sign up? From bosox18 at charter.net Wed Feb 10 12:13:36 2010 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:13:36 -0500 Subject: Good grief, sweet Charlotte In-Reply-To: <725645.47862.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <725645.47862.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ... and the Celtics are giving up a "big" man who's probably no taller than 6-6, can't dunk, and shoots 44 percent from the field, not just this year but for his career. If Garnett plays 30 minutes, Perk plays 30 minutes and Rasheed plays 25 minutes, how much time does that leave for Big Baby? 11 a game? Augustin averaged 12 points a game off the bench as a rookie and shot much better with regular playing time, and he's also a good ballhandler. He could start for several teams, which is why I'm skeptical this would happen. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Peter Delevett Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:54 AM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Good grief, sweet Charlotte I don't know DJ Augustin from St Augustine ... or DJ Jazzy Jeff ... but going strictly by, you know, the "numbers," I see a guy who's listed at 6', which means he's really 5'10 or 5'11, and shoots a sizzling 37 percent from the field. Can't imagine why he would end up in Larry Brown's dog house. Do the initials stand for Defective Jumpshot? We certainly could use a good backup to spell Rondo, but is a second-year player that guy? Also hard to see two guys that small playing together (which is one of many reasons the Monta Ellis chatter I see on this list makes no sense to me). So if Rondo's playing 35 mpg or so, how much does that leave for Augustin? Stephen Graham is a serviceable depth option at the three, but with Daniels finally healthy, I'm not sure it makes sense at this point. I could care less about Giddens, but this sounds like it's basically taking a good young big (yeah, come on people, he doesn't suck ass) off a team that isn't exactly loaded with them and bringing in a midget backup chucker and another middling swingman. Where do I sign up? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 12:24:25 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:24:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed In-Reply-To: <3f0c87181002091903v614bc2bcu24f930acdf7b202d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <834131.26775.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> First, I think he was talking about Antoine getting his shot blocked, not Antoine's shot-blocking ability. Second, Baby has amazing athletic ability considering his weight, with amazingly quick, nimble feet. His lift has been affected by his long layoff and inevitable weight gain, plus his 2 ankle sprains in early January. Throw in the thumb, which still gives him pain, and he's going to have problems finishing for awhile, but not for reasons owing to lack of athletic ability. Baby actually had a very good game on Sunday, and has been lifting his play this last week, giving us the kind of energy we need off the bench. Augustin is a good player, but a bad fit here and trading Baby for him would severely limit our backup options at the 4/5, a position you'd think we'd like to keep well-stocked. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/9/10, Alex Goldblatt wrote: > From: Alex Goldblatt > Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed > To: bosox18 at charter.net, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 9:03 PM > "To be fair, Antoine got nearly as > many shots blocked -- but he played a lot > more minutes" > > Toine's blocks always been swatting in mid-motion using his > quick hands - > basically much closer to a steal rather than actual > blocking (just like > Rondo's pocking from behind). > > Baby has no lift or quick hands per say - but his timing is > not bad. Saying > that, I'll take even Delonte West's shotblocking over his > any time of the > day - he simply has no athletic ability whatsoever. > > AG > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Steve Ouellette > wrote: > > > To be fair, Antoine got nearly as many shots blocked > -- but he played a lot > > more minutes. > > > > Augustin is a big talent -- a top ten draft pick who > just happens to be in > > Larry Brown's dog house. He doesn't quite fit here, > since we've got a young > > point guard already, but he's more than enough value > for Big Baby, who is > > never going to be a starter for a good team. > > > > Steve O > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > > Of davidp4660 at cox.net > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:01 PM > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Cc: Mencius > > Subject: Re: Bonnell: Bobcats Want Rasheed > > > > Davis has no lift whatsoever.? He gets more shots > blocked near the hoop > > than > > anyone I can remeber ever playing on the C's. > > I know he's heavy, and that is counter to good leaping > ability (save for > > Charles Barkley), but how many times have we lost what > was an easy two by > > Davis, only to see other players swatting his shot > away like flies. He had > > at least 4 blocked agains Orlando alone.? For his > size, I expected a better > > rebounder, too. To get an insurance for Rondo (who is > the future of this > > team), just about anyone is expendable at this point. > > Plus, he can shoot, and cover the 2 like Eddie does. > > ---- Mencius > wrote: > > > Interesting thing about the Bonnell link is the > reader comments. > > Charlotte > > > fans want no part of either Baby or Sheed for > Augustin.? Their objections > > > are more strenuous about not wanting Sheed (who > can blame them).? And one > > > commenter asked 'why would we want Big Baby when > we just let Sean May > > go?' > > > > > > I think Baby is being sold a little short by a > lot of people.? After > > missing > > > all that time, he clearly played with some fear > of getting his thumb > > > whacked, plus his general timing and game was off > for awhile.? To my > > eyes, > > > at least, he's been rounding back into form the > last week or two.? He's > > the > > > only one of our bigs that gets those 50/50 sort > of rebounds.? The rest of > > > our bigs are S L O W and give up offensive > rebound after offensive > > rebound. > > > > > > I guess I'm okay with Baby for Augustin, but we > saw last spring that Baby > > > can be a pretty good player, so it's not like > we're giving up hot > > garbage. > > > I think it's clear that he hasn't been that > player because of timidity > > about > > > the thumb (and game shape he lost because of > it). > > > > > > I think if this went down, the other shoe would > be soon to drop too.? I'm > > > hoping that means Ray's replacement.? I'd > hate to go into next season > > with > > > only the MLE to shore up our rapidly declining > Old 4.? It'd be like 1989 > > all > > > over again.???No thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 12:31:15 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby In-Reply-To: <20100209202133.LI90W.341196.imail@eastrmwml47> Message-ID: <376563.42942.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> David, Williams has been on the bench because he isn't that good. He had a nice 3 week run at the beginning of the season where he posted career best #s in pretty much every category, but since then he's fallen way way back to earth. If you look at the #s, Williams is a much much poorer finisher inside the paint than Big Baby. Baby's having trouble getting up right now, due to conditioning and ankle issues, and he's having trouble finishing because his hand is still weak after surgery, but even then he's finishing inside at a higher rate than Williams has for his entire career. Williams just isn't good at finishing at the rim, and he has small hands which causes him to lose the ball too often when he's around the rim. Historically, Williams has only one advantage over Baby--that's in the defensive rebounding category. Other than that (and the advantage isn't that significant), Baby's demonstrably better in ALL OTHER MEASUREABLES. He's a better scorer, passer, and defender. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/9/10, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > From: davidp4660 at cox.net > Subject: Re: DJ Augustin for Big Baby > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 7:21 PM > I know what it means.? I just > didn't think? the comment? was called for.? I > made a comment about a player who I think we could use if it > means getting something that we need more (insurance for > Rondo) and who could fill multiple roles.? Like I told > a number of people, if you don't like the post, simply > ignore it.? I stand by my opinion of Williams and would > rather use him at backup pf and trade Davis for a more > pressing need, even if it means another player going with > him.? As I said before, Davis has no lift-nada- and > can't rebound worth a lick for his size.? I have no > problem with you disagreeing, nor am I attempting to sway > anyone my way.? I just think your responses tend to be > a little snippy, but if that's how you make a point, so be > it. > ---- Kim Malo > wrote: > > At 06:47 PM 2/9/2010, davidp4660 at cox.net > wrote: > > >Excuse me?? Backup quarterback syndrome? > > > > The backup quarterback looks better than he is and > better than the > > guys playing, not because he is, but because he's been > on the bench > > (where you can revel in his "potential") vs in the > game doing things > > to frustrate, annoy, disappoint, etc. Constant > phenomenon in all > > sports, just started to get publicized as such over > the guys holding > > the clipboards. > > Kim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From HRBlaine at aol.com Wed Feb 10 13:12:06 2010 From: HRBlaine at aol.com (HRBlaine at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:12:06 EST Subject: Message-ID: <6f1.37e22bd2.38a40aa6@aol.com> In a message dated 2/10/2010 7:13:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, celtics-request at igtc.com writes: As I said before, Davis has no lift-nada- and can't rebound worth a lick for his size. From HRBlaine at aol.com Wed Feb 10 13:16:48 2010 From: HRBlaine at aol.com (HRBlaine at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:16:48 EST Subject: DJ Augustin for Big Baby Message-ID: <890.36a710dc.38a40bc0@aol.com> Sorry to disagree Dave but you are 100% wrong! Baby rebounds extremely well for his height. After all, he's only 2'3" tall. :-). In a message dated 2/10/2010 7:13:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, David writes: As I said before, Davis has no lift-nada- and can't rebound worth a lick for his size. From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 14:13:17 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:13:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Good grief, sweet Charlotte In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <463514.78218.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Augustin in a good player, but a bad fit on this team. Rondo's going to get a majority of the minutes at point, upwards of 35-40 against the good teams. Why? He's our best player. That leaves little time for Augustin at point. And I really hate the idea of playing anybody with a point guard's body at the 2 guard, especially on a team which supposedly prides itself on being a defensive team. Even on his best nights, Augustin is only a plus when he's outscoring his opponent. As we've seen with House, that's a losing proposition long term. Is Augustin an improvement on House? Yes, in almost every way he's an improvement, but we're not trading House for him, we're trading our one young reserve big man for him. You can project minutes all you like, but Wallace and KG are anything but certainties due to their age (and do you even want Sheed playing 25 minutes a game right now? I don't), and Perk has a history of 2 week shoulder injuries. Baby can play 4/5 (which is another advantage he has over Sheldon), and he can start and put up decent #s when called upon. It boils down to where you most want your bases covered--point guard or 4/5? To me, it's an easy answer because of KG's struggle to regain form and our utter lack of depth behind him. Basically, do you want a starting caliber, short as all hell backup point who won't get many minutes, or do you want a more versatile, multi-positional player who will get minutes? A Baby-for-Augustin trade leaves us utterly unbalanced going forward, and it would need to be followed up with another trade for a decent 4/5. Frankly, I like Baby more than the other big man on the trading block. Who would you suggest we go after to replace him? (Don't tell me Sheldon, that's not a viable option). Tyrus Thomas is the best I can see, and he's got his own attitude problems that I doubt would resolve in time for the 2010 playoff run. Plus, don't forget how Doc and 22-year-old point guards mix. Like water and oil. There's a reason DJ is in the doghouse, and I doubt that reason goes away when Doc has to deal with him. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Ouellette wrote: > From: Steve Ouellette > Subject: RE: Good grief, sweet Charlotte > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 6:13 AM > ... and the Celtics are giving up a > "big" man who's probably no taller than > 6-6, can't dunk, and shoots 44 percent from the field, not > just this year > but for his career. If Garnett plays 30 minutes, Perk plays > 30 minutes and > Rasheed plays 25 minutes, how much time does that leave for > Big Baby? 11 a > game? > > Augustin averaged 12 points a game off the bench as a > rookie and shot much > better with regular playing time, and he's also a good > ballhandler. He could > start for several teams, which is why I'm skeptical this > would happen. > > Steve O > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] > On Behalf > Of Peter Delevett > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:54 AM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Good grief, sweet Charlotte > > I don't know DJ Augustin from St Augustine ... or DJ Jazzy > Jeff ... but > going strictly by, you know, the "numbers," I see a guy > who's listed at 6', > which means he's really 5'10 or 5'11, and shoots a sizzling > 37 percent from > the field. Can't imagine why he would end up in Larry > Brown's dog house. Do > the initials stand for Defective Jumpshot? > > We certainly could use a good backup to spell Rondo, but is > a second-year > player that guy? Also hard to see two guys that small > playing together > (which is one of many reasons the Monta Ellis chatter I see > on this list > makes no sense to me). So if Rondo's playing 35 mpg or so, > how much does > that leave for Augustin? > > Stephen Graham is a serviceable depth option at the three, > but with Daniels > finally healthy, I'm not sure it makes sense at this point. > I could care > less about Giddens, but this sounds like it's basically > taking a good young > big (yeah, come on people, he doesn't suck ass) off a team > that isn't > exactly loaded with them and bringing in a midget backup > chucker and another > middling swingman. Where do I sign up? > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 10 14:21:03 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:21:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Doc Blowing More Smoke Message-ID: <322745.5751.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Interesting quotes from Doc today in the Herald: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?&articleid=1231892&format=&page=1&listingType=celt#articleFull Coach Doc is prepared to morph into Captain Hook. ?Offensively, the only thing I told them is that if the ball gets stuck once, you?re getting subbed,? Rivers said. ?That?s just clear. ?We?re not playing any games here. If the ball?s not moving, you?re coming out.? *** Doc has to have the veterans in mind with this quote (specifically Ray, Paul, Sheed, and House), since he's already shown a willingness (and I'd say an over-willingness) to pull Rondo, Perk, Baby, TA, or Walker/Giddens after only one mistake. It'll be interesting to see whether he can go through with it, and whether it's more than a one game thing. Hell, this may be the best way to limit Ray Allen's minutes, since it seems like he doesn't make the extra pass about 7-10 time every game. We'll see. Doc talks tough, but it'll take a lot to get him to forgo his veteran safety blankets. Ryan From douglas342 at aol.com Thu Feb 11 01:50:43 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:50:43 -0500 Subject: New Orleans Message-ID: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone. The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the heart. This team may win a bunch of games. We'll see some great games from several players. They may even win a playoff series, but given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. From tsb33 at windstream.net Thu Feb 11 04:13:46 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:13:46 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! Message-ID: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had tonight! But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game. Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! And I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss even worse! Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy From bgoudreau at verizon.net Thu Feb 11 04:34:18 2010 From: bgoudreau at verizon.net (Robert Goudreau) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:34:18 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! Message-ID: <7DC7757918564BD292D12A36616A47A3@gail8c0dd2bec0> Worst coaching job by Doc since he has been here. When the subs built the lead he should have left them in the game until they burnt the rubber off the bottom of the sneaks, then threw them another pair and left the first string on the bench. Goody From hartleyo at bellsouth.net Thu Feb 11 04:36:35 2010 From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:36:35 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> You think it is bad now , wait till they play the next few on the road. Could shoot blanks on that trip. 2/16 @ Sacramento - 50/50 % chance 2/18 @ Lakers - 0 % Chance to win 2/19 @ Portland - 0 % Chance to win 2/21 @ Denver - 0 % Chance to win IMO winning 50 games is a stretch with the team as it is now constituted. If Pierce and KG opt to go to the All Star crap instead of resting it will be slap in the face of every fan. Hart ----- Original Message ----- From: "TroySusieBrady" To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:13 PM Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you > don't > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes > ever > played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the > time! > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had > tonight! > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 > minutes > of the game. > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for > the > 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time > because > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! > And > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > even worse! > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From tsb33 at windstream.net Thu Feb 11 04:44:56 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:44:56 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> Message-ID: <008601caaad4$f6071b50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Hart, I agree with the all-star game. Obviously, neither are healthy, especially KG. Take 5 days off and not even look at a basketball! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of hartleyo at bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:37 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! You think it is bad now , wait till they play the next few on the road. Could shoot blanks on that trip. 2/16 @ Sacramento - 50/50 % chance 2/18 @ Lakers - 0 % Chance to win 2/19 @ Portland - 0 % Chance to win 2/21 @ Denver - 0 % Chance to win IMO winning 50 games is a stretch with the team as it is now constituted. If Pierce and KG opt to go to the All Star crap instead of resting it will be slap in the face of every fan. Hart ----- Original Message ----- From: "TroySusieBrady" To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:13 PM Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you > don't > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes > ever > played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the > time! > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had > tonight! > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 > minutes > of the game. > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for > the > 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time > because > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! > And > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > even worse! > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 02:40:00 From jbrainin at verizon.net Thu Feb 11 05:13:17 2010 From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:13:17 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <008601caaad4$f6071b50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> <008601caaad4$f6071b50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <15e848071002102113i71dd558hc1b052a9c4be04@mail.gmail.com> Last time Doc coached a time in this situation, he got canned. Maybe we can pray Danny will fire him? Hell, Antoine couldn't coach any worse than Rivers. From jbrainin at verizon.net Thu Feb 11 05:13:42 2010 From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:13:42 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <15e848071002102113i71dd558hc1b052a9c4be04@mail.gmail.com> References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> <008601caaad4$f6071b50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <15e848071002102113i71dd558hc1b052a9c4be04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15e848071002102113x3dbf465ewfeaf5ec59c495a50@mail.gmail.com> Err, make that "coached a team". On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Jonathan Brainin wrote: > Last time Doc coached a time in this situation, he got canned. Maybe we > can pray Danny will fire him? Hell, Antoine couldn't coach any worse than > Rivers. From davidp4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 13:32:01 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 8:32:01 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100211083201.D414L.527190.imail@eastrmwml36> Time to pull the trigger and break up the three. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone. The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the heart. This team may win a bunch of games. We'll see some great games from several players. They may even win a playoff series, but given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davidp4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 13:34:19 2010 From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 8:34:19 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <20100211083419.6PKJ0.527220.imail@eastrmwml36> Pirerce is next. If they resign him after next year, they are crazy. He can't put the ball on the floor. He's back to falling down on the court like he used to. He has no legs, no shot and no defense. If I were management, there'd be no Alll Start three point shoot out either. He is stinking up the joint. ---- TroySusieBrady wrote: > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever > played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had tonight! > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes > of the game. > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the > 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! And > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > even worse! > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 14:08:27 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:08:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <20100211083419.6PKJ0.527220.imail@eastrmwml36> Message-ID: <776675.22238.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Pierce is obviously injured and had yet to fully regain his stamina before this recent mid-foot sprain. Of all the Big 3, he's still BIG (when healthy). But, even though Pierce still has All-Star ability when healthy, it still doesn't account for the fact that Doc et al let him play in the last 2 games (when he obviously wasn't healthy), or that he let Paul finish those games as well (when he wasn't playing well). Daniels has been the better player (maybe our best player) the last 2 games, yet has sat the bench during winning time. Doc coulda even leaned on the injury excuse as to why he played Daniels over Pierce, but yet once again Doc seems incapable of controlling his veterans. All that tough talk about making the extra pass and defending? More smoke blowing. Only Perk and Rondo seemed to get their minutes cut, while Pierce stunk up the joint on both sides of the ball and he got most his normal minutes. WTF? Doc has no idea how to coach or motivate this team anymore. We might be looking at a coaching change, as crazy as that sounds. Ryan --- On Thu, 2/11/10, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > From: davidp4660 at cox.net > Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:34 AM > Pirerce is next.? If they resign > him after next year, they are crazy.? He can't put the > ball on the floor.? He's back to falling down on the > court like he used to.? He has no legs, no shot and no > defense.? If I were management, there'd be no Alll > Start three point shoot out either.? He is stinking up > the joint. > ---- TroySusieBrady > wrote: > > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the > extent of "if you don't > > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come > out!"? So he only > > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick > House for lunch.? But > > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of > the worse minutes ever > > played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded > by Peja much of the time! > > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the > NBA.? Pierce could > > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot > off!? He scored 1 > > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game > was decided. > > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the > best player we had tonight! > > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for > the last 5 or 6 minutes > > of the game. > >? > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of > you guys.? But I > > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much > to blame as the > > players themselves.? We play great for the 1st > half, but mail it in for the > > 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is > preaching during half time because > > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd > half every game!? And > > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray > tonight, we will be > > OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 > either which makes this loss > > even worse!? > >? > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 > days to improve this > > team.? He has his work cut out for > him.???Troy > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 14:19:33 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:19:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something > is gone.? The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were > really shots straight to the heart.? This team may win > a bunch of games.? We'll see some great games from > several players.? They may even win a playoff series, > but given where this team was in 07-08, that's > nothing.? > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but > when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, > especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty > damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 11 14:28:31 2010 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:28:31 -0400 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com>, <592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't believe the team is quitting on Doc. They are stuggling healthwise whether we admit it or not. I listened to the NO feed last night and they mentioned it ad nauseum. We blow the most basic things right now...like Davis came up with a steal and wouldn't give it up to Eddie right away on a 2 on 1. If he makes that pass, he, in all likelihood, takes a return pass for a dunk. But he fumbled the ball around and turned it over. We go through stretches of inferior play every year, particularly when we make the west coast trips. The injury factor is exacerbating everything though. But I agree with Ryan that there is absolutely no excuse for sitting Rondo. Cecil > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:19:33 -0800 > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com > Subject: Re: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > > Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew > two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! > > Ryan > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: douglas342 at aol.com > > Subject: New Orleans > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something > > is gone. The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were > > really shots straight to the heart. This team may win > > a bunch of games. We'll see some great games from > > several players. They may even win a playoff series, > > but given where this team was in 07-08, that's > > nothing. > > > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but > > when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, > > especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty > > damn good in 10-11. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Check your Hotmail from your phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121 From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 15:09:29 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:09:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <531348.6223.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Given the age factor, ?the reason we keep losing leads in the second half may be because we're just plain tired! ?not that we're mailing it in. ?That's the excuse I kept hearing all season as we lost to cleveland, orlando, and other contenders ?AT HOME. ? Oh, these games don't matter, we're not really trying hard enough, etc. ?Bull - this team only has the legs for two quarters! ? ?And yes, Pierce was truly awful to watch last night, while Bill Walker rotted on the bench. ? Aargh!! Danny needs to get some legs, and figure out how to bypass Pierce when he's playing poorly, even if he is the captain. ? Ellieps - one bright spot is that Marquis is back and looking good. --- On Wed, 2/10/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: From: TroySusieBrady Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:13 PM Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!"? So he only plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch.? But much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA.? Pierce could not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off!? He scored 1 garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the best player we had tonight! But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game. Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys.? But I really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the players themselves.? We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game!? And I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss even worse!? Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this team.? He has his work cut out for him.???Troy _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 16:01:59 2010 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:01:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <535978.94764.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Cecil, I believe the disconnect is deeper than simply injuries. The good health of the Big 3 only serves to cover up the root of the problem--the fact that Doc Rivers is clinging to an old narrative, one that's dividing the team and creating the old-versus-young internal battle that Egg has hinted at. Doc developed a brilliant narrative for 2007-2008--ubuntu. It was all about getting 3 stars to sacrifice and putting good roles players around them to support them and their sacrifice. It worked and was a thing of beauty--we had crazy spirit in the lockeroom and on the floor. Unfortunately, for the last 2 seasons, Doc keeps rolling out the same narrative while ignoring the contingencies of NOW, ignoring Ray's loss of legs, and the fact that KG can't cover up for everyone anymore. So, while the facts on the ground have changed, Doc keeps his head in the clouds, maintaining the same narrative as before. Problem is, that narrative is incoherent. What happens when one holds on to an incoherent narrative? Well, fracture happens--you have those players and coaches who still cling to the old narrative and those players who cease to believe that it holds true. This is why I ultimately put it on Doc's head--he's the one clinging to the old narrative and creating the divide among his players. If he were to signal a sea change, I believe the veterans would follow. But Doc's too stubborn, too blind to see that he needs a new story to tell the team, a new story that EVERYONE will believe, and a new story that takes into account the facts on the ground and that accounts for the fact that those facts are CHANGING. Danny can force a new narrative by trading Ray--or he can fire Doc. Those are the choices now. Ryan --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Cecil Wright wrote: > From: Cecil Wright > Subject: RE: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 8:28 AM > > I don't believe the team is quitting on Doc.? They are > stuggling healthwise whether we admit it or not.? I > listened to the NO feed last night and they mentioned it ad > nauseum.? We blow the most basic things right > now...like Davis came up with a steal and wouldn't give it > up to Eddie right away on a 2 on 1.? If he makes that > pass, he, in all likelihood, takes a return pass for a > dunk.? But he fumbled the ball around and turned it > over.? We go through stretches of inferior play every > year, particularly when we make the west coast trips.? > The injury factor is exacerbating everything though. > > > > But I agree with Ryan that there is absolutely no excuse > for sitting Rondo. > > > > Cecil > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:19:33 -0800 > > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: New Orleans > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > > > Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc > refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 > like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone > (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of > running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in > Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare > the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick > and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically > burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of > high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night > (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because > our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point > guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo > struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the > first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd > foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, > House had 3 turnovers, blew > > two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got > completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight > points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before > Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. > How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his > shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of > the year! > > > > Ryan > > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > From: douglas342 at aol.com > > > > Subject: New Orleans > > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > > > > > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like > something > > > is gone.? The losses to the Lakers and > Orlando were > > > really shots straight to the heart.? This > team may win > > > a bunch of games.? We'll see some great > games from > > > several players.? They may even win a > playoff series, > > > but given where this team was in 07-08, that's > > > nothing.? > > > > > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last > year, but > > > when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it > sucks, > > > especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may > look pretty > > > damn good in 10-11. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > _________________________________________________________________ > Check your Hotmail from your phone. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121 > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From joefan11111 at aol.com Thu Feb 11 16:07:22 2010 From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:07:22 -0500 Subject: Years of lightning, days of drums Message-ID: Or how about 1 year of lightning and 20 more years of drums? Ainge made one good trade with his buddy Kevin. ?Otherwise his trades, FA signings, and most of his ?draft picks have been pretty poor.? Even Minny is trying to get rid of Big Al, Gomes is pretty average, Delonte has turned weird, and our present group of draft picks (Giddens, big Baby, Hudson) sh-t the bed. ?If Tony Allen looks good to you all, then enough said. They refuse to tell us that Garnett and Ray Allen are all done, that Pierce isn't right, that Rasheed is a terrible signing, thatHouse has lost it, that Big Baby has become a failure, that Perk is regresing by the game, that our entire bench sucks as much as our first team. We're playing like a .500 team right now and it has nothing to do with the coaching, ?It's all to do with our players. And please, if Rondo and Perk are ?the future of our team or any team it's only out of default. ?Poor us. Joe From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:14:19 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:14:19 -0500 Subject: Years of lightning, days of drums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100211121419.2NR7D.914356.imail@eastrmwml38> Name me 4 other point guards better rounded both offensively and defensively than Rondo. Other than CP3, Deron Williams and the rookie from Chicago (whose name eludes me right now). Rondo is 3rd in assists, and leas the league in steals. What more do you want from a pg who's, what, 23? ---- joefan11111 wrote: > Or how about 1 year of lightning and 20 more years of drums? > > Ainge made one good trade with his buddy Kevin. ?Otherwise his > trades, FA signings, and most of his ?draft picks have been pretty poor.? > Even Minny is trying to get rid of Big Al, Gomes is pretty average, > Delonte has turned weird, and our present group of draft > picks (Giddens, big Baby, Hudson) sh-t the bed. ?If Tony Allen > looks good to you all, then enough said. > > They refuse to tell us that Garnett and Ray Allen are all done, > that Pierce isn't right, that Rasheed is a terrible signing, thatHouse has lost it, that Big Baby has become a failure, > that Perk is regresing by the game, that our entire bench sucks > as much as our first team. > > We're playing like a .500 team right now and it has nothing to do > with the coaching, ?It's all to do with our players. > > And please, if Rondo and Perk are ?the future of our team > or any team it's only out of default. ?Poor us. > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:15:40 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:15:40 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <531348.6223.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100211121540.9BMFM.914383.imail@eastrmwml38> Don't forget Seldom (used) Williams. ---- Ellie Cutler wrote: > Given the age factor, ?the reason we keep losing leads in the second half may be because we're just plain tired! ?not that we're mailing it in. ?That's the excuse I kept hearing all season as we lost to cleveland, orlando, and other contenders ?AT HOME. ? Oh, these games don't matter, we're not really trying hard enough, etc. ?Bull - this team only has the legs for two quarters! ? ?And yes, Pierce was truly awful to watch last night, while Bill Walker rotted on the bench. ? Aargh!! > Danny needs to get some legs, and figure out how to bypass Pierce when he's playing poorly, even if he is the captain. ? > > Ellieps - one bright spot is that Marquis is back and looking good. > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: > > From: TroySusieBrady > Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:13 PM > > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!"? So he only > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch.? But > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever > played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA.? Pierce could > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off!? He scored 1 > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the best player we had tonight! > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes > of the game. > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys.? But I > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > players themselves.? We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the > 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game!? And > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > even worse!? > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > team.? He has his work cut out for him.???Troy > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:16:16 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:16:16 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100211121616.R2KJL.914396.imail@eastrmwml38> Maybe Doc is quitting on the team? ---- Cecil Wright wrote: > > I don't believe the team is quitting on Doc. They are stuggling healthwise whether we admit it or not. I listened to the NO feed last night and they mentioned it ad nauseum. We blow the most basic things right now...like Davis came up with a steal and wouldn't give it up to Eddie right away on a 2 on 1. If he makes that pass, he, in all likelihood, takes a return pass for a dunk. But he fumbled the ball around and turned it over. We go through stretches of inferior play every year, particularly when we make the west coast trips. The injury factor is exacerbating everything though. > > > > But I agree with Ryan that there is absolutely no excuse for sitting Rondo. > > > > Cecil > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:19:33 -0800 > > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: New Orleans > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > > > Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew > > two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! > > > > Ryan > > > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > > > From: douglas342 at aol.com > > > Subject: New Orleans > > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > > > > > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something > > > is gone. The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were > > > really shots straight to the heart. This team may win > > > a bunch of games. We'll see some great games from > > > several players. They may even win a playoff series, > > > but given where this team was in 07-08, that's > > > nothing. > > > > > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but > > > when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, > > > especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty > > > damn good in 10-11. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check your Hotmail from your phone. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121 > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:19:41 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:19:41 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <776675.22238.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100211121941.41TZN.914451.imail@eastrmwml38> Pierce should have been on the pine last night. He stunk-plain and simple. Without even looking at the box score, he must have had 5 or 6 turnovers (some unforced) and he's back to his "falling down drunk" antics. If he isn't healthy, don't play the freakin guy. they gave KG all the time in the world to shake off his hyper extension, so Pierce should have taken another game off. wouldn't of hurt us in the least. We'd have lost anyway, so what did it accomplish. Sometimes Doc is a bonehead. ---- Ryan W wrote: > Pierce is obviously injured and had yet to fully regain his stamina before this recent mid-foot sprain. Of all the Big 3, he's still BIG (when healthy). > > But, even though Pierce still has All-Star ability when healthy, it still doesn't account for the fact that Doc et al let him play in the last 2 games (when he obviously wasn't healthy), or that he let Paul finish those games as well (when he wasn't playing well). Daniels has been the better player (maybe our best player) the last 2 games, yet has sat the bench during winning time. Doc coulda even leaned on the injury excuse as to why he played Daniels over Pierce, but yet once again Doc seems incapable of controlling his veterans. All that tough talk about making the extra pass and defending? More smoke blowing. Only Perk and Rondo seemed to get their minutes cut, while Pierce stunk up the joint on both sides of the ball and he got most his normal minutes. WTF? Doc has no idea how to coach or motivate this team anymore. We might be looking at a coaching change, as crazy as that sounds. > > Ryan > > --- On Thu, 2/11/10, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote: > > > From: davidp4660 at cox.net > > Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:34 AM > > Pirerce is next.? If they resign > > him after next year, they are crazy.? He can't put the > > ball on the floor.? He's back to falling down on the > > court like he used to.? He has no legs, no shot and no > > defense.? If I were management, there'd be no Alll > > Start three point shoot out either.? He is stinking up > > the joint. > > ---- TroySusieBrady > > wrote: > > > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the > > extent of "if you don't > > > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come > > out!"? So he only > > > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick > > House for lunch.? But > > > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of > > the worse minutes ever > > > played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded > > by Peja much of the time! > > > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the > > NBA.? Pierce could > > > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot > > off!? He scored 1 > > > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game > > was decided. > > > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the > > best player we had tonight! > > > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for > > the last 5 or 6 minutes > > > of the game. > > >? > > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of > > you guys.? But I > > > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much > > to blame as the > > > players themselves.? We play great for the 1st > > half, but mail it in for the > > > 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is > > preaching during half time because > > > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd > > half every game!? And > > > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray > > tonight, we will be > > > OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 > > either which makes this loss > > > even worse!? > > >? > > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 > > days to improve this > > > team.? He has his work cut out for > > him.???Troy > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:21:25 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:21:25 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <008601caaad4$f6071b50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <20100211122125.RU5CL.914477.imail@eastrmwml38> Your being nice and only asking for 5. I'd rather give them 10 days, with the other 5 in uniform watching the 2nd stringers run the team (with Rondo, who should be the new captain). ---- TroySusieBrady wrote: > Hart, I agree with the all-star game. Obviously, neither are healthy, > especially KG. Take 5 days off and not even look at a basketball! Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of hartleyo at bellsouth.net > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:37 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > > You think it is bad now , wait till they play the next few on the road. > Could shoot blanks on that trip. > 2/16 @ Sacramento - 50/50 % chance > 2/18 @ Lakers - 0 % Chance to win > 2/19 @ Portland - 0 % Chance to win > 2/21 @ Denver - 0 % Chance to win > > IMO winning 50 games is a stretch with the team as it is now constituted. If > Pierce and KG opt to go to the All Star crap instead of resting it will be > slap in the face of every fan. > > Hart > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TroySusieBrady" > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:13 PM > Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > > > > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you > > don't > > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only > > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But > > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes > > ever > > played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the > > time! > > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could > > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 > > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had > > tonight! > > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 > > minutes > > of the game. > > > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I > > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > > players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for > > the > > 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time > > because > > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! > > And > > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > > OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > > even worse! > > > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > > team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 > 02:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:22:43 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:22:43 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <8011CFED228A40D28082E398550E7005@D2F52Z11> Message-ID: <20100211122243.R8GRB.914503.imail@eastrmwml38> On the other hand, they sometimes rise to the level of their competition. I expect them to play the Lakers very well-no worse than the last game, which they should have won. ---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: > You think it is bad now , wait till they play the next few on the road. > Could shoot blanks on that trip. > 2/16 @ Sacramento - 50/50 % chance > 2/18 @ Lakers - 0 % Chance to win > 2/19 @ Portland - 0 % Chance to win > 2/21 @ Denver - 0 % Chance to win > > IMO winning 50 games is a stretch with the team as it is now constituted. If > Pierce and KG opt to go to the All Star crap instead of resting it will be > slap in the face of every fan. > > Hart > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TroySusieBrady" > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:13 PM > Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! > > > > Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you > > don't > > move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!" So he only > > plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch. But > > much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes > > ever > > played! Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the > > time! > > Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA. Pierce could > > not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off! He scored 1 > > garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. > > Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game! By far the best player we had > > tonight! > > But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 > > minutes > > of the game. > > > > Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys. But I > > really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the > > players themselves. We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for > > the > > 2nd half. Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time > > because > > we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game! > > And > > I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be > > OK when he comes back!" They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss > > even worse! > > > > Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this > > team. He has his work cut out for him. Troy > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From green00333444 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 17:23:19 2010 From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:23:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Years of lightning, days of drums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <192323.33726.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Or how about 1 year of lightning But what a wonderful year it was...to destroy the HATED Lakers like that was a beautiful thing. We all new this was coming, but that doesn't make it any easier... Rasheed Wallace was clearly a bad signing but it looked perfect on paper (until we all saw how much his game had declined). I think the only reason that House is here this season is that he exercised his players option. I don't think that management would have resigned him. I am hoping that Ray Allen isn't really hurt and that the real reason he didn't play last night is because a trade is imminent. Allen's game has been in obvious decline since some time in the 2007-2008 season. > 20 more years of drums? Almost certainly, sad to say...but championship teams are very hard to build. Where are the Celtics going to find another Garnett, Bird, Cowens or Russell (plus supporting cast)? Charles From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:23:20 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:23:20 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <7DC7757918564BD292D12A36616A47A3@gail8c0dd2bec0> Message-ID: <20100211122320.MCOYT.914520.imail@eastrmwml38> Agreed. The starters should have watched from the bench and learned something. ---- Robert Goudreau wrote: > Worst coaching job by Doc since he > has been here. When the subs built > the lead he should have left them in > the game until they burnt the rubber > off the bottom of the sneaks, then > threw them another pair and left > the first string on the bench. > > Goody > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From davep4660 at cox.net Thu Feb 11 17:25:30 2010 From: davep4660 at cox.net (davep4660 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:25:30 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100211122530.SRM61.914558.imail@eastrmwml38> Both those loses which should have been wins, took the wind out of their sails. Now it looks as if they are sailing aimlessly. ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone. The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the heart. This team may win a bunch of games. We'll see some great games from several players. They may even win a playoff series, but given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jbrainin at verizon.net Thu Feb 11 17:49:45 2010 From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:49:45 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <20100211121616.R2KJL.914396.imail@eastrmwml38> References: <20100211121616.R2KJL.914396.imail@eastrmwml38> Message-ID: <15e848071002110949qfcc04b3i8e9a002d33c70ee6@mail.gmail.com> We should only be so lucky. On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:16 PM, wrote: > Maybe Doc is quitting on the team? > From douglas342 at aol.com Thu Feb 11 18:31:07 2010 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:31:07 -0500 Subject: Years of lightning, days of drums In-Reply-To: <192323.33726.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC795F81D507BE-3D9C-718B@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> Yes, the one year was beautiful, and, in the long run, worth the next few. We debated long and hard the instant reward vs long-term approach. This year sucks and will suck for the rest of the season. This team might win one round, possibly two rounds, but that's it. My only hope now is that somone beats the Lakers, who won last night without Byrant, Bynum, and Odom. The fun of being a fan reaches its peak with a championship, but in general, it's fun when your team exceeds your expectations, like the famous ECF team of 2001 (?). Was anyone really upset or sad that that team didn't win the championship? Hell no! They were a good team and overachieved, and it was a fun ride. Last year wasn't bad because with KG out, a title was out of the picture, and we could enjoy whatever ride we got. Sure, there was some grumbling after the game 7 loss to Orlando, but there was no fury - we knew the team and how far it could go. Let's assume that the era of PGA is over and done with. If we all think that the addition of Augustin (or St. Augustine) means an NBA title, it's gonna be an awful year. On the other hand, if we think that the 10-11 Celtics are a .500 team, showing signs of promise in years to come, we'll have a great time when they win 52 games and a round of playoffs. (Am I rationalizing? Or am I in denial? Both) -----Original Message----- From: Green 00 To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:23 am Subject: Re: Years of lightning, days of drums > Or how about 1 year of lightning But what a wonderful year it was...to destroy the HATED Lakers like that was a beautiful thing. We all new this was coming, but that doesn't make it any easier... Rasheed Wallace was clearly a bad signing but it looked perfect on paper (until we all saw how much his game had declined). I think the only reason that House is here this season is that he exercised his players option. I don't think that management would have resigned him. I am hoping that Ray Allen isn't really hurt and that the real reason he didn't play last night is because a trade is imminent. Allen's game has been in obvious decline since some time in the 2007-2008 season. > 20 more years of drums? Almost certainly, sad to say...but championship teams are very hard to build. Where are the Celtics going to find another Garnett, Bird, Cowens or Russell (plus supporting cast)? Charles _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From green00333444 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 11 20:00:00 2010 From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Years of lightning, days of drums In-Reply-To: <8CC795F81D507BE-3D9C-718B@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <495537.43269.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > The fun of being a fan reaches its peak with a > championship, but in general, it's fun when your team > exceeds your expectations, like the famous ECF team of 2001 > (?). Was anyone really upset or sad that that team > didn't win the championship? Hell no! They were > a good team and overachieved, and it was a fun ride. Yes, I was almost relieved that team didn't have to face the Lakers. It was fun to watch them overachieve but it would have been tough to watch Tony Battie up again Shaq in his prime. > Last year wasn't bad because with KG out, a title was out of > the picture, and we could enjoy whatever ride we got.? Again I agree. Their performance in the playoff without KG last year is even more impressive when you see how far they're falling this season. Yes, I think that we do have to re-calibrate our expectations. Look how fast and far Detroit have fallen (and to think they could have had both Billups and Carmello Anthony, at least Ainge has never made a mistake THAT bad...) "I know it's over, but still I cling, I don't know what else I can do" Charles From hartleyo at bellsouth.net Thu Feb 11 21:12:19 2010 From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:12:19 -0500 Subject: Celtics rumor Message-ID: Heard a rumor today that Ainge is moving the Celtics to the Philippines where they will be renamed - "The Manilla Folders" Hart From tsb33 at windstream.net Thu Feb 11 22:31:12 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:31:12 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> <592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e601caab69$ea9a3190$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Like I said, that is just Doc being a dick, I mean Doc! He will not change, he is incapable of changing. So as long as he is there, Rondo will be the goat, the veterans will stay out there and suck no matter how many losses we take and he will never play the young guys. NOT going to happen. That frustrates me much more than the Big 3 not being very big anymore. As I said last night in my article, I think Doc is more responsible for our tail spin than the players! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:20 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone.? > The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the > heart.? This team may win a bunch of games.? We'll see some great > games from several players.? They may even win a playoff series, but > given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you > won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win > season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From tsb33 at windstream.net Thu Feb 11 22:40:44 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:40:44 -0500 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <531348.6223.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <531348.6223.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ed01caab6b$3f6b7de0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Last year at end and in the playoffs, yes I would agree, we ran out of gas. I don't think that is the case this year. They come out to start the 2nd half looking like a group that have lost their best friends! It isn't just physical, it is emotional and dare I say, almost spiritless! They have no life, no enthusiasm. Just look at some of their expressions on their faces, they look lost! Like they really don't think they can win the game. I don't know what is going on during half time, but it needs to completely change! Somebody throw a chair, a cooler, something to wake this team up. They are sleep walking during the 2nd half. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:09 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! Given the age factor, ?the reason we keep losing leads in the second half may be because we're just plain tired! ?not that we're mailing it in. ?That's the excuse I kept hearing all season as we lost to cleveland, orlando, and other contenders ?AT HOME. ? Oh, these games don't matter, we're not really trying hard enough, etc. ?Bull - this team only has the legs for two quarters! ? ?And yes, Pierce was truly awful to watch last night, while Bill Walker rotted on the bench. ? Aargh!! Danny needs to get some legs, and figure out how to bypass Pierce when he's playing poorly, even if he is the captain. ? Ellieps - one bright spot is that Marquis is back and looking good. --- On Wed, 2/10/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: From: TroySusieBrady Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:13 PM Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!"? So he only plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch.? But much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA.? Pierce could not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off!? He scored 1 garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the best player we had tonight! But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game. Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys.? But I really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the players themselves.? We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game!? And I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss even worse!? Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this team.? He has his work cut out for him.???Troy _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From jozersky at optonline.net Thu Feb 11 22:43:04 2010 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:43:04 +0000 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <00e601caab69$ea9a3190$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com><592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><00e601caab69$ea9a3190$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <1855997799-1265928189-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-479349246-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Doc is a players coach. It was ok when we were healthy. Now it's not. Think KC Jones. If kg and pierce can't produce at a high level it doesn't matter who coaches. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:31:12 To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: New Orleans Like I said, that is just Doc being a dick, I mean Doc! He will not change, he is incapable of changing. So as long as he is there, Rondo will be the goat, the veterans will stay out there and suck no matter how many losses we take and he will never play the young guys. NOT going to happen. That frustrates me much more than the Big 3 not being very big anymore. As I said last night in my article, I think Doc is more responsible for our tail spin than the players! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:20 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone.? > The losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the > heart.? This team may win a bunch of games.? We'll see some great > games from several players.? They may even win a playoff series, but > given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you > won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win > season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From tsb33 at windstream.net Thu Feb 11 22:55:59 2010 From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:55:59 -0500 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <1855997799-1265928189-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-479349246-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com><592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><00e601caab69$ea9a3190$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <1855997799-1265928189-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-479349246-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <00f401caab6d$60c3cc70$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Josh your are correct that we can't we a championship if they don't perform well. But some games, the last one for example, is a prime case of we win the game if these guys sit! If Daniels plays the 34 minutes that Pierce played, we win the game. Doc's biggest problem is, when things aren't going well he does NOTHING to try to change it! I think, correct me if I am wrong, that in the 3rd quarter during a 36 to 12 run, Doc only called 1 time out! I would have called everyone I had if needed to try to stop that funk! Pierce & KG sucked the 2nd half, everyone agrees on that. Doc just went with the same old same old! Change something, play someone else! Play Walker, it can't get any worse than it is. But he never will, that is just Doc. He refuses or is incapable of changing on the run. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of jozersky at optonline.net Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:43 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doc is a players coach. It was ok when we were healthy. Now it's not. Think KC Jones. If kg and pierce can't produce at a high level it doesn't matter who coaches. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:31:12 To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: New Orleans Like I said, that is just Doc being a dick, I mean Doc! He will not change, he is incapable of changing. So as long as he is there, Rondo will be the goat, the veterans will stay out there and suck no matter how many losses we take and he will never play the young guys. NOT going to happen. That frustrates me much more than the Big 3 not being very big anymore. As I said last night in my article, I think Doc is more responsible for our tail spin than the players! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:20 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone. The > losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the > heart.? This team may win a bunch of games.? We'll see some great > games from several players.? They may even win a playoff series, but > given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you > won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win > season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From jozersky at optonline.net Thu Feb 11 22:59:20 2010 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:59:20 +0000 Subject: New Orleans In-Reply-To: <00f401caab6d$60c3cc70$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <8CC78D3C1A38D03-1C9C-2526@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com><592909.60048.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><00e601caab69$ea9a3190$6401a8c0@troyscomputer><1855997799-1265928189-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-479349246-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><00f401caab6d$60c3cc70$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <2015874936-1265929165-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1700055844-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> It's true... Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:55:59 To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: New Orleans Josh your are correct that we can't we a championship if they don't perform well. But some games, the last one for example, is a prime case of we win the game if these guys sit! If Daniels plays the 34 minutes that Pierce played, we win the game. Doc's biggest problem is, when things aren't going well he does NOTHING to try to change it! I think, correct me if I am wrong, that in the 3rd quarter during a 36 to 12 run, Doc only called 1 time out! I would have called everyone I had if needed to try to stop that funk! Pierce & KG sucked the 2nd half, everyone agrees on that. Doc just went with the same old same old! Change something, play someone else! Play Walker, it can't get any worse than it is. But he never will, that is just Doc. He refuses or is incapable of changing on the run. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of jozersky at optonline.net Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:43 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doc is a players coach. It was ok when we were healthy. Now it's not. Think KC Jones. If kg and pierce can't produce at a high level it doesn't matter who coaches. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:31:12 To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: New Orleans Like I said, that is just Doc being a dick, I mean Doc! He will not change, he is incapable of changing. So as long as he is there, Rondo will be the goat, the veterans will stay out there and suck no matter how many losses we take and he will never play the young guys. NOT going to happen. That frustrates me much more than the Big 3 not being very big anymore. As I said last night in my article, I think Doc is more responsible for our tail spin than the players! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:20 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: New Orleans Doug, this team is quitting on Doc Rivers because Doc refuses to recognize reality, as in, he's treating the Big 3 like they're still the Big 3 when it's obvious to everyone (even the Big 3) that this is Rondo's team now. Instead of running Doc's stupid offense, we need to put the ball in Rondo's hands full time, set a ton of high screens, and dare the other team to stop him. It's kinda hard to stop a pick and roll, as we saw last night with Collison, who basically burned us all night in the pick and roll...using the kind of high picks that Doc REFUSED to call for Rondo last night (high picks for Rondo are not part of our offense because our offense is designed in a way that doesn't need a point guard). Yet, after the game, Doc declares that "Rondo struggled and Eddie was terrific." WTF? Rondo played the first 8 minutes, played decently, and then picked up his 2nd foul, and then sat the rest of the 1st half. Meanwhile, House had 3 turnovers, blew two 2-on-1 fast break opportunities, and got completely abused by Collison. Of course, it took 8 straight points by Collison (all against the defense of House) before Doc finally put Rondo back in the game in the 4th quarter. How the hell is that terrific? Eddie wasn't even hitting his shot, couldn't defend, and had his highest turnover game of the year! Ryan --- On Wed, 2/10/10, douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > From: douglas342 at aol.com > Subject: New Orleans > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 7:50 PM > > > I'm sort of watching this game, but I feel like something is gone. The > losses to the Lakers and Orlando were really shots straight to the > heart.? This team may win a bunch of games.? We'll see some great > games from several players.? They may even win a playoff series, but > given where this team was in 07-08, that's nothing. > > Being a 55-win team is great when you won 40 last year, but when you > won 62 last year (or whatever), it sucks, especially when that 55 win > season in 09-10 may look pretty damn good in 10-11. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From jozersky at optonline.net Fri Feb 12 00:07:13 2010 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:07:13 +0000 Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! In-Reply-To: <00ed01caab6b$3f6b7de0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <007d01caaad0$9b3287e0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer><531348.6223.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com><00ed01caab6b$3f6b7de0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <1263658025-1265933252-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1737319631-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> They're a rudderless ship without kg leading the way. He's the true heart and soul of the team, it's only true leader. Including Doc. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: TroySusieBrady Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:40:44 To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! Last year at end and in the playoffs, yes I would agree, we ran out of gas. I don't think that is the case this year. They come out to start the 2nd half looking like a group that have lost their best friends! It isn't just physical, it is emotional and dare I say, almost spiritless! They have no life, no enthusiasm. Just look at some of their expressions on their faces, they look lost! Like they really don't think they can win the game. I don't know what is going on during half time, but it needs to completely change! Somebody throw a chair, a cooler, something to wake this team up. They are sleep walking during the 2nd half. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:09 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! Given the age factor, ?the reason we keep losing leads in the second half may be because we're just plain tired! ?not that we're mailing it in. ?That's the excuse I kept hearing all season as we lost to cleveland, orlando, and other contenders ?AT HOME. ? Oh, these games don't matter, we're not really trying hard enough, etc. ?Bull - this team only has the legs for two quarters! ? ?And yes, Pierce was truly awful to watch last night, while Bill Walker rotted on the bench. ? Aargh!! Danny needs to get some legs, and figure out how to bypass Pierce when he's playing poorly, even if he is the captain. ? Ellieps - one bright spot is that Marquis is back and looking good. --- On Wed, 2/10/10, TroySusieBrady wrote: From: TroySusieBrady Subject: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:13 PM Doc was quoted in the last 24 hours as saying to the extent of "if you don't move the ball and play team first, etc., then you come out!"? So he only plays Rondo 25 minutes and lets Collison eat brick House for lunch.? But much worse, much worse, was letting Pierce play 34 of the worse minutes ever played!? Folks he had 8 turnovers and was guarded by Peja much of the time! Yes Peja, one of the softest, poorest defenders in the NBA.? Pierce could not score in the 2nd half, couldn't even get his shot off!? He scored 1 garbage layup under a minute left to go when the game was decided. Meanwhile, Daniels had a super game!? By far the best player we had tonight! But he played only 24 minutes and was taken out for the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game. Yes, you guessed it, I am frustrated like the rest of you guys.? But I really think Doc's coaching "or lack of it" is as much to blame as the players themselves.? We play great for the 1st half, but mail it in for the 2nd half.? Can't help wonder what Doc is preaching during half time because we come out timid, with no energy or life for the 2nd half every game!? And I better not hear anyone say, "well we didn't have Ray tonight, we will be OK when he comes back!"? They didn't have CP3 either which makes this loss even worse!? Danny better be working 24 hours a day for the next 7 days to improve this team.? He has his work cut out for him.???Troy _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/11/10 02:35:00 From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Fri Feb 12 12:58:44 2010 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:58:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: team leader In-Reply-To: <1263658025-1265933252-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1737319631-@bda151.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <346651.89607.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com> So true! ?That's why I wish KG could keep his Superman personality even if he is in a slump or sitting in street clothes, instead of morphing into Clark Kent. Keep your head up and bark! Where is there another true leader on the horizon? ?(not just at next week's trading deadline, but looking forward.) ? We also need more toughness (one thing appealing about Augustine). ? ?Bring back Lester! ; ) --- On Thu, 2/11/10, jozersky at optonline.net wrote: From: jozersky at optonline.net Subject: Re: Doc Being Doc! Way To Go! To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:07 PM They're a rudderless ship without kg leading the way. He's the true heart and soul of the team, it's only true leader. Including Doc. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com Fri Feb 12 16:11:45 2010 From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:11:45 -0500 Subject: you cannot be serious!!!! Message-ID: <3f0c87181002120811p631dfdact9991e936fcb74f71@mail.gmail.com> In a dramatic move that would resuscitate their fading championship hopes, the Boston Celticsare discussing a deal with the Washington Wizardsfor forwards Antawn Jamison (notes)and Caron Butler (notes) , league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. The proposed deal would send the expiring contracts of Ray Allen (notes) , Brian Scalabrine (notes)and J.R. Giddens (notes)to the Wizards, a move that would signal the start of Washington?s rebuilding process. The trade isn?t imminent, but talks have progressed and Celtics GM Danny Ainge has positioned his organization to make one of the boldest trade deadline moves in years. For the Celtics, o