Celtics/Minny

Sat Sep 12 18:17:49 UTC 2009

I think you missed my point: this team as currently built is completely dependent on a Rondo-like point guard to make it work.  Sure, he didn't build the team around Rondo starting in 2007; no, he built the team around Rondo starting this summer, with his signing of Wallace, another perimeter player who needs a Rondo-like point guard to get him looks, an attribute which increasingly applies to KG, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce, not to mention Baby and Wallace and even Scal, guys who get their looks by spotting up and letting Rondo break down the defense  This team is becoming more and more Rondo's team and more and more dependent on him to run well.  So, on the one hand, we have Ainge building that type of team, and then on the other hand we have him throwing Rondo's name out in trade talks.  Your conclusion is that he's not sold on him: my response is, he wouldn't have built his team around him if he was at least in some sense sold on him or on the
 necessity of a Rondo-like player as the lynch pin on the particular team he's constructed.

To me, Rondo's public criticism by Danny and Doc and his supposed inclusion in several proposed deals leads to 2 conclusions: they're setting the stage for what they think will be a tough contract negotiation and they're trying to motivate Rondo to get better.  How much sense does it make to bad-mouth a player one day and try to trade them the next?  I'd hope Ainge is smarter than that...

My belief all along is that *if* Ainge trades Rondo, it'll be for a better version of Rondo, like Chris Paul.  I just don't personally get why he won't at least engage in some contract extension negotiations *this* summer at a time when it's clear Rondo's price will be at it's lowest.  Even if he signs him at 10 million per, he can still trade him next summer if he wants?  Why not make the offer?

Ryan

--- On Sat, 9/12/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Celtics/Minny
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 5:40 AM
> 
> Meh--if he's not sold on him, why did he build the team
> around him then? - Ryan
> 
> He didn't. He built the team "around" getting a superstar
> out of Al Jefferson and getting something for nothing out of
> Wally Z and D West (I'm not implying D West was nothing -
> I've simply never been sold on Wally Z). Rondo just happened
> to come into that situation - you make it sound like Rondo
> was established and known and Ainge went and got Garnett and
> Allen to surround HIM with - which I hope even you will
> admit is plain silly.
> 
> Look - take you and I out of the equation. Our feelings
> don't mean diddly. If Ainge was sold on Rondo he wouldn't:
> 
> 1. Float/allow consistent press stories about his
> attitude/lateness/whatever. Compare media handling of Rondo
> to other players in Boston and you'll find more in common
> with the Manny Ramirez and Ty Law type stories than the Tom
> Brady or Dustin Pedroia. By that, the Boston media, which
> used to be tough on just about every athlete, now is only
> tough on certain athletes - mostly because the management of
> the teams they play for limit information as much as
> possible. If Ainge didn't want anything getting out about
> Rondo - it wouldn't have gotten out or have been limited to
> non stories leveraging their (very well used) spin machine.
> These people aren't stupid in media affairs.
> 
> 2. Try to trade him not once, but multiple times. Once is a
> "deal we couldn't pass up" two and three times is "we're not
> quite sure this is our guy" more than that is "we're going
> in another direction".
> 
> I'm not saying this is MY thoughts on Rondo - I continue to
> think he is the best PG we've had here since Cooz (who
> couldn't shoot either at first) and it would take a lot to
> make ME part with him, but sitting here saying Ainge is 100%
> behind Rondo while the above HAS HAPPENED is just not seeing
> the forest for the trees.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Celtics/Minny
> 
> Meh--if he's not sold on him, why did he build the team
> around him then?  This team will GO NOWHERE if there
> isn't a penetrating-and-kick guard at the helm, ideally one
> who is young (since this team is otherwise quite old), can
> also run the fast break (so as to engender easy buckets
> which are otherwise unavailable to our slower, older, more
> half-court oriented players) and play great on-the-ball
> defense at the top of the defense.  Guys like Ray
> Allen, KG, Baby, and Wallace are all dependent on Rondo to
> get good looks--replace that will some kind of standstill
> jump-shooting fake point guard like Derek Fisher and we're
> screwed.
> 
> Even if Ainge isn't 'sold on him,' there's no downside to
> signing Rondo to a reasonable extension this fall.  If
> it doesn't work out, he's still eminently tradeable, this
> season or in the future.  The key is making the deal
> reasonable.  If so, there's no downside.  Even if
> you overpay him a bit, I'd still argue that there's no
> downside to extending him this summer.
> 
> The way it stands now, Danny has pretty much surrounded
> Rondo will the perfect players to maximize his talent a year
> before he's due to be a restricted free agent.  If that
> doesn't greatly increase his value, I don't know what
> will.  I'll say it for the hundreth time: Rondo only
> gets more expensive the longer we wait to extend him. 
> Unless you're confident you can sign-and-trade him for some
> other team's superstar, it's a foolish gamble to let an
> asset gain value when you can preemptively sign him
> up.  Like Perk, Rondo should be extended before and not
> after he makes the Leap.  
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Celtics/Minny
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 1:26 PM
> > I'd understand pessimism regarding
> > coming to an agreement that satisfies both parties,
> but not
> > even an offer?  What's the harm in making a fair
> > offer?  I don't see any.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > Easy - the harm is he might accept it.
> > 
> > Ainge is not sold on Rondo. There is too much
> historical
> > evidence to that fact to deny it.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> > On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:55 PM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Celtics/Minny
> > 
> > Just to piggyback on Noah's comment a bit: I think
> Scal
> > stays in the mix until KG shows that he's back to
> > 100%.  Scal may not be a lot of things, but he's a
> > pretty decent KG sub on a short term basis and I don't
> think
> > you give that up until you know KG has recovered from
> his
> > surgery.  I wouldn't go as far as to say we should
> > resign Scal, but he does have value in an offense run
> by
> > Rondo...
> > 
> > FYI: Marc Spears has a nice article about KG's
> progress at
> > http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak78rD4d87kMgSKHy1AAarpzK7J_?slug=mc-garnettceltics091009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
> > 
> > He also reports that Danny hasn't decided whether
> he's
> > going to offer Rondo an extension.  What?  I'd
> > understand pessimism regarding coming to an agreement
> that
> > satisfies both parties, but not even an offer? 
> What's
> > the harm in making a fair offer?  I don't see any.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Celtics/Minny
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 4:40 PM
> > > Moving Scal is silly. Just resign him
> > > for less unless he's party of a
> > > package for a huge talent upgrade.
> > > 
> > > Scal may not be talented, but he's done far more
> for
> > the
> > > chemistry and
> > > makeup of our team than anyone has given him
> credit
> > for.
> > > 
> > > Noah
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:34 PM,  <bradybonz at cox.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I don't think they'll move Scal or Tony
> until
> > mid
> > > season.  I agree that they are worth more at
> that
> > point
> > > than right now.  But I didn't see or hear of
> > anything
> > > involving the C's or Atkins.  I wouldn't waste a
> spot
> > on
> > > him just yet despite our need for a legitimate
> backup
> > pg.
> > >  I'd stand pat and roll the dice as is, and see
> what
> > > happens come mid season. I'd be shocked if it
> was
> > anything
> > > but a rumor, as Ray has been wrong before.
> > > > ---- Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >Well Minnesota and the Hornets just
> made
> > a
> > > three player deal. I guess that counsnts us out.
> Chalk
> > up
> > > another rumor
> > > >>
> > > >> Why? The Wolves gave up a shooting PF
> and a
> > backup
> > > guard for another guard. Acquiring Scal and Tony
> > would
> > > offset the losses of Songaila and Wilkins; and
> with
> > Antonio
> > > Daniels able to play the point, you could argue
> that
> > they
> > > don't need Atkins, especially since they're
> loaded
> > with
> > > PGs.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let me say, I think Boston could get
> more
> > for
> > > these expiring contracts as the season goes on.
> But
> > Atkins
> > > would fill the team's biggest perceived weakness
> > without
> > > balking about playing time; and Wilkins, while
> maybe
> > not any
> > > better defensively than Marquis, has two inches
> on
> > Tony, so
> > > he'd likely be able to defend the three (and
> thereby
> > fill
> > > our other perceived need for one more large
> swingman).
> > On
> > > top of everything else, a 3-for-2 deal would open
> up
> > another
> > > roster spot, so we could sign Hudson and still
> have
> > an
> > > available slot for someone else.
> > > >>
> > > >> nb because Atkins and Wilkins were
> recently
> > > traded, Minny can't move them again until the end
> of
> > the
> > > month. So if this deal happens, it will be a
> couple
> > weeks
> > > from now. Hopefully Danny can get a better offer,
> but
> > it's
> > > somewhat encouraging if he's continuing to look
> at
> > ways to
> > > strengthen the roster.
> > > >>
> > > >> >>The New Orleans Hornets
> improved
> > their
> > > depth Wednesday by completing a trade with the
> > Minnesota
> > > Timberwolves that sends guard Antonio Daniels to
> the
> > Wolves
> > > for forward Darius Songaila and guard Bobby
> Brown.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > >> celtics at igtc.com
> > > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >
> > > >
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> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
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