From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Nov  1 04:22:03 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:22:03 EDT
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Message-ID: <c9f.56c4ef76.381e66eb@aol.com>

 
Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
 
Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com


NEW YORK -- _Stephon Marbury_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=509)  didn't steal the show at the _New  York Knicks_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk)  home opener. But he sure provided 
quite a sideshow. 
The former Knicks point guard made good on his promise to show up for his  
former team's home opener and sit in the front row. But Marbury was asked to 
 leave those seats when ushers examined his ticket and determined he was 
sitting  in the wrong spot. 
Rather than relocate, Marbury left  the arena just as the first quarter was 
ending.
Adding to the bizarre scene, Marbury pulled out a video camera shortly 
after  arriving and began shooting the live action, at one point standing up -- 
thereby  blocking the view of the fans behind him -- while play was ongoing. 
A Madison Square Garden security official spoke to Marbury during a 
timeout,  and it was then discovered that Marbury was holding a ticket for Row A. 
But the  seat he was occupying -- just a couple chairs down from Spike Lee's 
regular seat  -- was actually in Row AA, and Marbury was asked to move. 
After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer  from the _Boston 
Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  early in the summer, 
Marbury remained  unsigned through the summer. He recently said he plans to 
sit out the entire  2009-10 season before making a comeback next season. 
Chris Sheridan is a senior NBA writer for  ESPN.com.

From jahillsr at comcast.net  Sun Nov  1 18:45:52 2009
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 13:45:52 -0500
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Message-ID: <000001ca5b23$89c0b010$9d421030$@net>

Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
him a better deal.  So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
will be made, as it was with Baby etc . . 

 

<Jim

 

>After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer  from the Boston
_Celtics_early in the summer, 
Marbury remained  unsigned through the summer.

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 18:49:12 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:49:12 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
Message-ID: <0KSG00BPE1NNIYTA@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/11/01/celtics_point_guard_rondo_has_repositioned_himself_mentally/
It'll be interesting to see how much he really means it and addresses 
it vs just saying the right things, because this tendency to bring it 
against the best but coast too hard and too often when he thinks he 
can (whole games but also in smaller ways during "average" games) has 
been a real issue since he got here IMO. It's certainly bothered me 
more than his jump shot, although that's never bothered me as much as 
it seems to most others. It's also, in fairness, one of the few ways 
he regularly reminds me just how young he is.

And I'm fairly sure it's one of the key things Danny had in mind in 
when phrasing it that he's not a max player... yet, since it's 
something that the best of the best don't do (no they don't play 
every game with the same intensity, but that's not the same as saying 
they do a lot of active coasting), but it's also something Rondo can 
do something about.

Kim 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  1 21:21:18 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 13:21:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSG00BPE1NNIYTA@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <460777.26938.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I know it's best 'till after the season to make these proclamations, but screw it, I think we've seen enough in the month of training camp and regular season--Rondo's made the Leap in terms of 'bringing it' every night, no matter the competition.  Articles like these just reinforce the idea that Rondo has taken management's constructive criticism and run with it.  Here's hoping they can find some middle ground and agree to an extension before tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole season only to drive up his price next summer.

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 12:49 PM
> http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/11/01/celtics_point_guard_rondo_has_repositioned_himself_mentally/
> It'll be interesting to see how much he really means it and
> addresses it vs just saying the right things, because this
> tendency to bring it against the best but coast too hard and
> too often when he thinks he can (whole games but also in
> smaller ways during "average" games) has been a real issue
> since he got here IMO. It's certainly bothered me more than
> his jump shot, although that's never bothered me as much as
> it seems to most others. It's also, in fairness, one of the
> few ways he regularly reminds me just how young he is.
> 
> And I'm fairly sure it's one of the key things Danny had in
> mind in when phrasing it that he's not a max player... yet,
> since it's something that the best of the best don't do (no
> they don't play every game with the same intensity, but
> that's not the same as saying they do a lot of active
> coasting), but it's also something Rondo can do something
> about.
> 
> Kim 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 21:57:26 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:57:26 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <460777.26938.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <0KSG00BPE1NNIYTA@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
	<460777.26938.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KSG00CKGADO0EQ2@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>

At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
>I know it's best 'till after the season to make these proclamations, 
>but screw it, I think we've seen enough in the month of training 
>camp and regular season--Rondo's made the Leap in terms of 'bringing 
>it' every night, no matter the competition.  Articles like these 
>just reinforce the idea that Rondo has taken management's 
>constructive criticism and run with it.  Here's hoping they can find 
>some middle ground and agree to an extension before 
>tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole season only 
>to drive up his price next summer.

I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to judge this one. 
Don't have to wait until after the season, but less than one week 
into the season, a tendency to coast hasn't even been tested. The 
only thing the article could reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah 
Charlotte wasn't top competition, but it's still opening of the 
season excitement and they have given us fits in the past. You can 
maybe start to judge if this has really changed with the midseason 
grind when coasting temptation is highest, not much before. At least 
not much before for good reasons.
Kim 


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Nov  2 01:47:31 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:47:31 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSG00CKGADO0EQ2@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20091101204731.W0I4A.796564.imail@eastrmwml46>

With the cap being lowered next year, there are very, very few teams able to afford Rondo more than what we can sign him for now, if we sign him.  No way in hell, anyone is going to lure him away from us by offering him the max if he becomes a free agent. As good as he he is, and I still think he's a top 5 pg, especially at his age.   If we sign him now, great. If not, he'll play hard every game from now until the post season, and we can match any offer. I see this as a win/win, with the Celtics in the driver's seat.
---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote: 
> At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> >I know it's best 'till after the season to make these proclamations, 
> >but screw it, I think we've seen enough in the month of training 
> >camp and regular season--Rondo's made the Leap in terms of 'bringing 
> >it' every night, no matter the competition.  Articles like these 
> >just reinforce the idea that Rondo has taken management's 
> >constructive criticism and run with it.  Here's hoping they can find 
> >some middle ground and agree to an extension before 
> >tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole season only 
> >to drive up his price next summer.
> 
> I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to judge this one. 
> Don't have to wait until after the season, but less than one week 
> into the season, a tendency to coast hasn't even been tested. The 
> only thing the article could reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah 
> Charlotte wasn't top competition, but it's still opening of the 
> season excitement and they have given us fits in the past. You can 
> maybe start to judge if this has really changed with the midseason 
> grind when coasting temptation is highest, not much before. At least 
> not much before for good reasons.
> Kim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 02:20:54 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:20:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <20091101204731.W0I4A.796564.imail@eastrmwml46>
Message-ID: <486779.79179.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

There are approximately 10 teams with cap space available to sign Rondo to a max deal next summer.  

Of those 10, the argument could be made that perhaps only 3 have a real need for a point guard.

The Celtics are clearly in the driver's seat when it comes to Rondo, but signing him NOW removes potential distractions down the road, and paves the Ray for discussions about extending Ray Allen as well.  As I'm interested in winning a championship this season, and not in keeping Rondo on his rookie deal as prime bait to lure a franchise player such as Paul, Wade, etc., to town in a possible mid-season trade, I hope to hell something gets done.  If not, we're going to see 10 posts minimum from Ray about Ray + Rondo deals for Wade, Joe Johnson, Bosh, etc., right up until the trade deadline.  Not that I think the speculation would affect the Cs that much, or that I think Danny would be dumb enough to blow a real chance at a championship THIS YEAR, all for the CHANCE to be good AFTER this year--it's just that I don't want to read about it.  That and it'll be much cheaper to resign Rondo NOW, making it easier to extend Perk next season, and transition to the
 post Big 3 era.

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: davidp4660 at cox.net <davidp4660 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 7:47 PM
> With the cap being lowered next year,
> there are very, very few teams able to afford Rondo more
> than what we can sign him for now, if we sign him.? No
> way in hell, anyone is going to lure him away from us by
> offering him the max if he becomes a free agent. As good as
> he he is, and I still think he's a top 5 pg, especially at
> his age.???If we sign him now, great. If not,
> he'll play hard every game from now until the post season,
> and we can match any offer. I see this as a win/win, with
> the Celtics in the driver's seat.
> ---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> wrote: 
> > At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > >I know it's best 'till after the season to make
> these proclamations, 
> > >but screw it, I think we've seen enough in the
> month of training 
> > >camp and regular season--Rondo's made the Leap in
> terms of 'bringing 
> > >it' every night, no matter the competition.?
> Articles like these 
> > >just reinforce the idea that Rondo has taken
> management's 
> > >constructive criticism and run with it.?
> Here's hoping they can find 
> > >some middle ground and agree to an extension
> before 
> > >tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a
> whole season only 
> > >to drive up his price next summer.
> > 
> > I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to
> judge this one. 
> > Don't have to wait until after the season, but less
> than one week 
> > into the season, a tendency to coast hasn't even been
> tested. The 
> > only thing the article could reinforce is
> preconceptions. Yeah 
> > Charlotte wasn't top competition, but it's still
> opening of the 
> > season excitement and they have given us fits in the
> past. You can 
> > maybe start to judge if this has really changed with
> the midseason 
> > grind when coasting temptation is highest, not much
> before. At least 
> > not much before for good reasons.
> > Kim 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 02:27:12 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSG00CKGADO0EQ2@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <323655.21586.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him--but like I said earlier if I had to choose right now (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the deadline tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so far.  Gotta go with the gut on this one.

Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for improvement.  Tonight, for instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.  Instead of making him play on both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to facilitate--which is fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, but there will be nights like tonight when Rondo needs to make the opposing point guard play defense.  Rondo let Paul rest on defense, and Paul took advantage of that rest by getting active in the passing lanes in the 2nd half, and doing alot of damage in transition.  All part of the learning process, though.  For the most part, throughout his career, Rondo HAS done a great job scoring on Paul--maybe tonight he was thinking about the extension deadline and didn't want to appear to be engaging in a one-on-one battle against Paul, so he held back and tried to facilitate.  He still got 10 assists and would have had another 4-5 if KG, Paul, and Ray would have converted some of the open looks
 Rondo got for them.  

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 3:57 PM
> At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > I know it's best 'till after the season to make these
> proclamations, but screw it, I think we've seen enough in
> the month of training camp and regular season--Rondo's made
> the Leap in terms of 'bringing it' every night, no matter
> the competition.? Articles like these just reinforce
> the idea that Rondo has taken management's constructive
> criticism and run with it.? Here's hoping they can find
> some middle ground and agree to an extension before
> tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole
> season only to drive up his price next summer.
> 
> I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to judge
> this one. Don't have to wait until after the season, but
> less than one week into the season, a tendency to coast
> hasn't even been tested. The only thing the article could
> reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah Charlotte wasn't top
> competition, but it's still opening of the season excitement
> and they have given us fits in the past. You can maybe start
> to judge if this has really changed with the midseason grind
> when coasting temptation is highest, not much before. At
> least not much before for good reasons.
> Kim 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 02:39:53 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:39:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <323655.21586.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <504785.26756.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Sign Rondo tomorrow!? He's worth what he's asking for.? He's still a kid, and when he's in a groove, this team runs like no other in the league, and like we haven't seen since the Celts of many years ago.? He is SPECIAL.

On another note, Perk has really come into his own this year. With the weight loss, he is so much smoother, and his offense has matured - he's doing the up and under, the baby hook, the short baseline jumper - and he's hitting most of them.? He's just playing great. Hope his shoulder(s) hold up.?? This team is scary good. I loved how they got down to business and put the Hornets away in the final 5 minutes.? Wallace is great under pressure.? He's going to be a force in the playoffs.

Lovin' it!!

Ellie'

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:27 PM

Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him--but like I said earlier if I had to choose right now (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the deadline tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so far.? Gotta go with the gut on this one.

Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for improvement.? Tonight, for instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.? Instead of making him play on both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to facilitate--which is fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, but there will be nights like tonight when Rondo needs to make the opposing point guard play defense.? Rondo let Paul rest on defense, and Paul took advantage of that rest by getting active in the passing lanes in the 2nd half, and doing alot of damage in transition.? All part of the learning process, though.? For the most part, throughout his career, Rondo HAS done a great job scoring on Paul--maybe tonight he was thinking about the extension deadline and didn't want to appear to be engaging in a one-on-one battle against Paul, so he held back and tried to facilitate.? He still got 10 assists and would have had another 4-5 if KG, Paul, and Ray would have converted some of the open
 looks
 Rondo got for them.? 

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 3:57 PM
> At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > I know it's best 'till after the season to make these
> proclamations, but screw it, I think we've seen enough in
> the month of training camp and regular season--Rondo's made
> the Leap in terms of 'bringing it' every night, no matter
> the competition.? Articles like these just reinforce
> the idea that Rondo has taken management's constructive
> criticism and run with it.? Here's hoping they can find
> some middle ground and agree to an extension before
> tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole
> season only to drive up his price next summer.
> 
> I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to judge
> this one. Don't have to wait until after the season, but
> less than one week into the season, a tendency to coast
> hasn't even been tested. The only thing the article could
> reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah Charlotte wasn't top
> competition, but it's still opening of the season excitement
> and they have given us fits in the past. You can maybe start
> to judge if this has really changed with the midseason grind
> when coasting temptation is highest, not much before. At
> least not much before for good reasons.
> Kim 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon Nov  2 04:34:51 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:34:51 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <323655.21586.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <0KSG00CKGADO0EQ2@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
	<323655.21586.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KSG00IOFSS1J3S1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>

At 09:27 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
>Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him

Which of course I did not say.

>--but like I said earlier if I had to choose right now (and the Cs 
>do, kinda, because of the deadline tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by 
>what he's shown so far.

And which is not exactly what you said. Satisfied with it so far I agree with.

>Gotta go with the gut on this one.
>
>Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for improvement.  Tonight, 
>for instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.  Instead of making 
>him play on both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to 
>facilitate--which is fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, 
>but there will be nights like tonight when Rondo needs to make the 
>opposing point guard play defense.

Bigger problem is that he got caught up in the sort of mano a mano 
duels Pierce used to be too often guilty of, complete with a lot of 
lip. Part of that also involved a few times when no, he wasn't all 
facilitator but because Paul scored on him he had to go take a not 
altogether helpful shot himself.  "anything you can do I can do 
better" *Shrug* just another sign of immaturity and nothing worse, 
since it's not something he gets caught up in too often.  He usually 
channels the competition into more constructive play.

Kim 


From jahillsr at comcast.net  Mon Nov  2 05:00:39 2009
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 00:00:39 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
Message-ID: <004101ca5b79$6c5f8450$451e8cf0$@net>

We only see Rondo on the court, management sees him in that, and other
situations.  More information to make decisions with.  The extra $2-3
million  per year means another minimum level bench player or two vs having
that $ available for an above minimum FA.  In the transition from
Pierce/Garnett/Ray, that extra $ could be pivotal to maintaining a level of
success.  

 

I suggest the Celtics "Play for today, Plan for tomorrow".  The difference
between $9 M per year and $11 M per year can only be measured in ego and
missing FA's, after tax and agent expense's. Rondo is not being insulted
here.  If he doesn't sign, he will have to play 110%, 100% of the time to
score a bigger contract offer for an incomplete PG coming into really big
money for the first time.  There is a risk factor here to consider on both
sides, I think the Celtics risk is lower.

 

It's all about the entire team, <Jim

 

Sign Rondo tomorrow!  He's worth what he's asking for.  He's still a kid,
and when he's in a groove, this team runs like no other in the league, and
like we haven't seen since the Celts of many years ago.  He is SPECIAL.
 
On another note, Perk has really come into his own this year. With the
weight loss, he is so much smoother, and his offense has matured - he's
doing the up and under, the baby hook, the short baseline jumper - and he's
hitting most of them.  He's just playing great. Hope his shoulder(s) hold
up.   This team is scary good. I loved how they got down to business and put
the Hornets away in the final 5 minutes.  Wallace is great under pressure.
He's going to be a force in the playoffs.
 
Lovin' it!!
 
Ellie'
 
--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > wrote:
 
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:27 PM
 
Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him--but like I said earlier if I had
to choose right now (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the deadline
tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so far.  Gotta go with the
gut on this one.
 
Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for improvement.  Tonight, for
instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.  Instead of making him play on
both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to facilitate--which is
fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, but there will be nights like
tonight when Rondo needs to make the opposing point guard play defense.
Rondo let Paul rest on defense, and Paul took advantage of that rest by
getting active in the passing lanes in the 2nd half, and doing alot of
damage in transition.  All part of the learning process, though.  For the
most part, throughout his career, Rondo HAS done a great job scoring on
Paul--maybe tonight he was thinking about the extension deadline and didn't
want to appear to be engaging in a one-on-one battle against Paul, so he
held back and tried to facilitate.  He still got 10 assists and would have
had another 4-5 if KG, Paul, and Ray would have converted some of the open
 looks
 Rondo got for them.  
 
Ryan
 
--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > wrote:
 
> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com
<http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 3:57 PM
> At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > I know it's best 'till after the season to make these
> proclamations, but screw it, I think we've seen enough in
> the month of training camp and regular season--Rondo's made
> the Leap in terms of 'bringing it' every night, no matter
> the competition.  Articles like these just reinforce
> the idea that Rondo has taken management's constructive
> criticism and run with it.  Here's hoping they can find
> some middle ground and agree to an extension before
> tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a whole
> season only to drive up his price next summer.
> 
> I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to judge
> this one. Don't have to wait until after the season, but
> less than one week into the season, a tendency to coast
> hasn't even been tested. The only thing the article could
> reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah Charlotte wasn't top
> competition, but it's still opening of the season excitement
> and they have given us fits in the past. You can maybe start
> to judge if this has really changed with the midseason grind
> when coasting temptation is highest, not much before. At
> least not much before for good reasons.
> Kim 

 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 05:13:29 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:13:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <004101ca5b79$6c5f8450$451e8cf0$@net>
Message-ID: <816041.23959.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Not sure what you're arguing for here Jim.  The 2 million difference that's been reported (Cs offered 9 million per, Rondo wants 11 million per), could easily escalate in the summer to another 2 million more (the Cs offering 11, some team giving Rondo 13).  The 2 million more per season we go to get him signed tomorrow (if necessary) could save us 2 million per season we have to match next summer.  

There's pretty much no way he signs for under 10 million at this point.  And there's pretty much no way he depreciates in value between now and next summer.  The only way we save money is by signing him now.

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Jim Hill <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Jim Hill <jahillsr at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:00 PM
> We only see Rondo on the court,
> management sees him in that, and other
> situations.? More information to make decisions
> with.? The extra $2-3
> million? per year means another minimum level bench
> player or two vs having
> that $ available for an above minimum FA.? In the
> transition from
> Pierce/Garnett/Ray, that extra $ could be pivotal to
> maintaining a level of
> success.? 
> 
>  
> 
> I suggest the Celtics "Play for today, Plan for
> tomorrow".? The difference
> between $9 M per year and $11 M per year can only be
> measured in ego and
> missing FA's, after tax and agent expense's. Rondo is not
> being insulted
> here.? If he doesn't sign, he will have to play 110%,
> 100% of the time to
> score a bigger contract offer for an incomplete PG coming
> into really big
> money for the first time.? There is a risk factor here
> to consider on both
> sides, I think the Celtics risk is lower.
> 
>  
> 
> It's all about the entire team, <Jim
> 
>  
> 
> Sign Rondo tomorrow!? He's worth what he's asking
> for.? He's still a kid,
> and when he's in a groove, this team runs like no other in
> the league, and
> like we haven't seen since the Celts of many years
> ago.? He is SPECIAL.
>  
> On another note, Perk has really come into his own this
> year. With the
> weight loss, he is so much smoother, and his offense has
> matured - he's
> doing the up and under, the baby hook, the short baseline
> jumper - and he's
> hitting most of them.? He's just playing great. Hope
> his shoulder(s) hold
> up.???This team is scary good. I loved how
> they got down to business and put
> the Hornets away in the final 5 minutes.? Wallace is
> great under pressure.
> He's going to be a force in the playoffs.
>  
> Lovin' it!!
>  
> Ellie'
>  
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at
> yahoo.com
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> wrote:
>  
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at
> igtc.com
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:27 PM
>  
> Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him--but like I said
> earlier if I had
> to choose right now (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the
> deadline
> tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so
> far.? Gotta go with the
> gut on this one.
>  
> Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for
> improvement.? Tonight, for
> instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.? Instead
> of making him play on
> both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to
> facilitate--which is
> fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, but there
> will be nights like
> tonight when Rondo needs to make the opposing point guard
> play defense.
> Rondo let Paul rest on defense, and Paul took advantage of
> that rest by
> getting active in the passing lanes in the 2nd half, and
> doing alot of
> damage in transition.? All part of the learning
> process, though.? For the
> most part, throughout his career, Rondo HAS done a great
> job scoring on
> Paul--maybe tonight he was thinking about the extension
> deadline and didn't
> want to appear to be engaging in a one-on-one battle
> against Paul, so he
> held back and tried to facilitate.? He still got 10
> assists and would have
> had another 4-5 if KG, Paul, and Ray would have converted
> some of the open
>  looks
>  Rondo got for them.? 
>  
> Ryan
>  
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> wrote:
>  
> > From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> > Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at
> igtc.com
> <http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >
> > Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 3:57 PM
> > At 04:21 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > > I know it's best 'till after the season to make
> these
> > proclamations, but screw it, I think we've seen enough
> in
> > the month of training camp and regular season--Rondo's
> made
> > the Leap in terms of 'bringing it' every night, no
> matter
> > the competition.? Articles like these just
> reinforce
> > the idea that Rondo has taken management's
> constructive
> > criticism and run with it.? Here's hoping they
> can find
> > some middle ground and agree to an extension before
> > tomorrow--there's no need to make Rondo prove it a
> whole
> > season only to drive up his price next summer.
> > 
> > I hope they sign him too, but it's WAY too soon to
> judge
> > this one. Don't have to wait until after the season,
> but
> > less than one week into the season, a tendency to
> coast
> > hasn't even been tested. The only thing the article
> could
> > reinforce is preconceptions. Yeah Charlotte wasn't
> top
> > competition, but it's still opening of the season
> excitement
> > and they have given us fits in the past. You can maybe
> start
> > to judge if this has really changed with the midseason
> grind
> > when coasting temptation is highest, not much before.
> At
> > least not much before for good reasons.
> > Kim 
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 05:43:39 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:43:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSG00IOFSS1J3S1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <403493.64788.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>



--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 10:34 PM
> At 09:27 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him
> 
> Which of course I did not say.

Meh--it seemed close enough when I wrote it.  Regardless, if we think of it more simply as "to what degree has Rondo shown he's absorbed the lessons of the summer," it's hard to argue that Rondo HASN'T done most everything right in the last month.  Considering the sample size and Rondo's improvement, I'm satisfied he's done all he could and that effort to improve should be enough to move the Cs upwards in their offer.  Could Rondo revert?  Sure, but there's nothing suggesting that he puts on airs for anyone--in fact, there's the exact opposite suggestion--that's he so headstrong that he'll hurt his long term goals on occasion.  So, considering the head strong factor, Rondo's month-long show of improvement is enough for me.  Headstrong people don't try to fool anybody--they just force their will on you.

> 
> > --but like I said earlier if I had to choose right now
> (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the deadline tomorrow),
> I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so far.
> 
> And which is not exactly what you said. Satisfied with it
> so far I agree with.

The implication was there, though, especially as the arbitrary deadline looms.  Ideally, we'd know the future before we ever acted.  Short of that, the 'newest' information gets the most notice.  And, as of 'now', Rondo's done about all he could to get better...

> 
> > Gotta go with the gut on this one.
> > 
> > Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for
> improvement.? Tonight, for instance, I thought Rondo
> let Paul off easy.? Instead of making him play on both
> ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to
> facilitate--which is fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday
> night, but there will be nights like tonight when Rondo
> needs to make the opposing point guard play defense.
> 
> Bigger problem is that he got caught up in the sort of mano
> a mano duels Pierce used to be too often guilty of, complete
> with a lot of lip. Part of that also involved a few times
> when no, he wasn't all facilitator but because Paul scored
> on him he had to go take a not altogether helpful shot
> himself.? "anything you can do I can do better" *Shrug*
> just another sign of immaturity and nothing worse, since
> it's not something he gets caught up in too often.? He
> usually channels the competition into more constructive
> play.

Didn't see mano a mano from Rondo last night--saw him trying to avoid it and not being as aggressive as he could have been (which will always be a hurdle for him as long as he's surrounded by killer offensive talent, that is, knowing when HE needs to take over a game for awhile).  I did see a lot of lip and did see Rondo and Paul get into it a little bit after the game.  ESPN is now reporting that Paul tried to enter the locker room after the game, while the AP is reporting that Paul was 'headed' to the locker room but was stopped by Celtic assistant coaches on the floor.  Obviously, Paul and Rondo were having a good battle and it spilled off after the game.  As long as no one gets hurt, it's good--all the greats are assholes at heart, be them Bird, MJ, Kobe, KG, etc.  

If there was any mano a mano from Rondo tonight, it was trying to force passes after Paul scored on him.  After he checked into the game in the 4th, especially, I think Rondo made a couple terrible turnovers that to me at least looked like he was trying to 'answer' Paul by getting careless with his facilitating, forcing bad passes instead of just running the offense as he had earlier in the game.  I actually liked those pull up jumpers he went for that didn't connect.  To me, those were good jumpers, exactly what Doc wants Rondo to do.  He might not be hitting them now, but just like Baby last year I think he'll be hitting them in the 2nd half of the season precisely because he was taking them (and missing them) in November.

Ryan


      


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Mon Nov  2 06:43:03 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:43:03 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
Message-ID: <20091102064322.E3183E1C076@ignite.igtc.com>


>Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>For the most part, throughout his career, Rondo HAS done a great job scoring on Paul--maybe tonight he was thinking about the extension deadline and didn't want to appear to be engaging in a one-on-one battle against Paul, so he held back and tried to facilitate.  He still got 10 assists and would have had another 4-5 if KG, Paul, and Ray would have converted some of the open looks Rondo got for them.  

Yeah, that's a good point. Rondo looked off to me this game. Then I check the box score and see he got 10 assists (could easily have been 14, as you say) and 3 steals in only 26 minutes. Most point guards would be deliriously happy with that line. That this performance seems subpar shows how much Rondo's raised our expectations.

-- Eric


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 10:38:18 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 02:38:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSG00IOFSS1J3S1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <834719.87983.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Glad Rondo has been extended, on the C's he is the true x-factor that opposing teams cannot plan for, his play along with Garnett's defense and Pierce's ability to take over a game at any given moment along with a great bench,?makes this team scary good.
?
I think part of the problem with Rondos inconsistancy in that one game he dominates, uber active?and is the best player on the floor then another he is in overdrive deferring to his teamates, is his job description of being a playmaker for 4 all-stars to near all-stars. I dont believe he has the green light to look for his own offense in most occasions even though he knows he could be an effective scorer (non jump shot and all). It is not his role. He is given the green light to blow up a defense with his speed but at the same time be a playmaker first, I think at times he is in no-mans land in this regard.?
?
I believe beyond this year?he will be asked to be a scorer in addition to being the pacemaker. At least he will not be worring about a contract for awhile which should let him concentrate on the job at hand, not worry about stats, playing?for a contract.
?
Destination 18.??
?
Go C's

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:


From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:34 PM


At 09:27 PM 11/1/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> Yeah, ideally we'd get a year to test him

Which of course I did not say.

> --but like I said earlier if I had to choose right now (and the Cs do, kinda, because of the deadline tomorrow), I'd be satisfied by what he's shown so far.

And which is not exactly what you said. Satisfied with it so far I agree with.

> Gotta go with the gut on this one.
> 
> Not that Rondo still doesn't have room for improvement.? Tonight, for instance, I thought Rondo let Paul off easy.? Instead of making him play on both ends, Rajon got into the habit of only trying to facilitate--which is fine if everyone's hitting, like Friday night, but there will be nights like tonight when Rondo needs to make the opposing point guard play defense.

Bigger problem is that he got caught up in the sort of mano a mano duels Pierce used to be too often guilty of, complete with a lot of lip. Part of that also involved a few times when no, he wasn't all facilitator but because Paul scored on him he had to go take a not altogether helpful shot himself.? "anything you can do I can do better" *Shrug* just another sign of immaturity and nothing worse, since it's not something he gets caught up in too often.? He usually channels the competition into more constructive play.

Kim 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From pdbauer at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 13:07:40 2009
From: pdbauer at yahoo.com (Paul Bauer)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 05:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Report: Rondo agrees to deal
Message-ID: <964799.37712.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Report: Rondo agrees to deal
Point guard Rajon Rondo has reached an agreement in principle to extend his contract with the Boston Celtics, according to a Yahoo Sports report citing Rondo's agent Bill Duffy and league sources that say the five-year deal is worth at least $55 million.

Had a deal not been reached before the end of today, Rondo would have become a restricted free agent at the end of this season

From BDodgers at aol.com  Mon Nov  2 15:18:33 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 10:18:33 EST
Subject: Source: Rondo deal worth at least $55M
Message-ID: <c80.5ed879ac.38205249@aol.com>

 
Source: Rondo deal worth at least $55M
 

ESPN.com news services




Facing a Monday deadline, the _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  and _Rajon Rondo_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026)  have reached an agreement in principle on a  
contract extension, his agent confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.  
The deal is for five years and will  be worth at least $55 million, a 
source confirmed to Bucher.
Rondo and the team agreed to the deal late Sunday night, thanks in large 
part  to what the 22-year-old point guard has demonstrated since training camp 
began.  General manager Danny Ainge and owner Wyc Grousbeck balked at 
giving Rondo the  kind of deal he wanted because of concern about his leadership 
skills and  integration in the team fabric when negotiations began. 
"They were candid and we understood," said Rondo's agent, Bill Duffy. "It 
was  never about on the court. They wanted him to demonstrate being more of a 
leader,  meshing with the team, being engaged in the lockerroom. Those 
issues have been  squelched. I have to give a lot of credit to Ainge and Wyc. 
When there is an  issue and you get it resolved, it's like a cleansing." 
The Celtics and Rondo were faced with a Sunday night deadline at midnight 
to  work out a deal. Had the sides not been able to come to an agreement on 
an  extension, Rondo would have become a restricted free agent July 1. Yahoo! 
Sports  first reported the agreement.  
"There's always the possibility that there would be more money in a  
free-agent situation, even though it's harder for a restricted free agent,"  Duffy 
said. "But because Rajon is in such an ideal situation, it was my  
responsibility to promote continuity." 
Duffy told Yahoo! Sports that he called Ainge on Sunday to inform him Rondo 
 was prepared to play out his contract and become a restricted free agent 
next  summer because they weren't satisfied with the team's offers. Ainge, 
according  to Duffy, then gave ground to finish off the deal.  
Before the Celtics played host to New Orleans on  Sunday night in a testy 
showdown with Hornets guard _Chris Paul_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) , Rondo reiterated his monthlong stance that  he 
wasn't thinking about the deadline and hadn't spoken to his agent  recently. 
"I ain't called him at all," Rondo told reporters of  Duffy. "He calls me. 
I don't call him. If he has anything, he'll call me. I'm  focused on the 
season. It's not like I'm worried about the contract. I had a  tough first 
week. I can't really be selfish and focus on myself when I've got _Mo Williams_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2178) , _Raymond 
Felton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) , Chris 
Paul and _Derrick Rose_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) . It wouldn't be fair to my team if I was  thinking about that 
right now." 
Rondo's camp appeared prepared to scrap the idea of further talks and  
consider the matter of an extension closed as recently as last Monday. Yet a  
meeting Tuesday before Boston's first game in Cleveland between Ainge and 
Duffy  resuscitated talks, with Boston making unspecified improvements to its 
previous  offer. 
Rondo is earning $2.3 million this season in the  last year of his rookie 
contract. He averaged 11.9 points, 8.2 assists and 5.2  rebounds per game 
last season but pushed those averages to an impressive near  triple-double in 
the playoffs with star forward _Kevin Garnett_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)  sidelined.  
Information from ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher, ESPN.com NBA senior  
writer Marc Stein and ESPNBoston.com was used in this  report.

From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  2 18:43:03 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:43:03 -0500
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
In-Reply-To: <000001ca5b23$89c0b010$9d421030$@net>
Message-ID: <F94A8260.FB70.41E0.A88C.5722708D0FF0@aol.com>

Interesting. ? Marbury is such a crazy dude. ?What next.?

Good thing we signed 2nd option Daniels for the same small exception money?and that 
Bruce Bowen, McDyess, and whoever else were our first choices?wouldn't sign with us. ?
I'm happy with Rasheed and ?Daniels except for Grant Hill who is averaging 20 pts.and ?
10 rebounds over 900 FT% and over .500 FG&. Hill is really amazing at his age.No wonder Danny was after him. ?



On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:45:52 PM, "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:

From:   "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net>
Subject:    Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Date:   November 1, 2009 1:45:52 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com


Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
him a better deal. So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
will be made, as it was with Baby etc . .?



<Jim



>After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston
_Celtics_early in the summer,?
Marbury remained unsigned through the summer.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 19:02:40 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:02:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
In-Reply-To: <F94A8260.FB70.41E0.A88C.5722708D0FF0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <224230.88005.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I am liking Daniels too of all the options that Ainge was looking at especially Marbury. Hill would have been fantastic as you say but Daniels fits like a glove for our teams team needs and what he brings on D. He should only get better as the season progresses. Hopefully Doc gives him about 5 mins more of the minutes he is playing Ray A. ?
Go C's

--- On Mon, 11/2/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 1:43 PM

Interesting. ? Marbury is such a crazy dude. ?What next.?

Good thing we signed 2nd option Daniels for the same small exception money?and that 
Bruce Bowen, McDyess, and whoever else were our first choices?wouldn't sign with us. ?
I'm happy with Rasheed and ?Daniels except for Grant Hill who is averaging 20 pts.and ?
10 rebounds over 900 FT% and over .500 FG&. Hill is really amazing at his age.No wonder Danny was after him. ?



On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:45:52 PM, "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:

From:???"Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net>
Subject:? ? Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Date:???November 1, 2009 1:45:52 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com


Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
him a better deal. So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
will be made, as it was with Baby etc . .?



<Jim



>After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston
_Celtics_early in the summer,?
Marbury remained unsigned through the summer.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon Nov  2 19:31:13 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:31:13 -0500
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <834719.87983.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <0KSG00IOFSS1J3S1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
	<834719.87983.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KSH005CVY9PZWZ1@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:38 AM 11/2/2009, R Howe wrote:
>Glad Rondo has been extended, on the C's he is the true x-factor 
>that opposing teams cannot plan for, his play along with Garnett's 
>defense and Pierce's ability to take over a game at any given moment 
>along with a great bench, makes this team scary good.
>
>I think part of the problem with Rondos inconsistancy in that one 
>game he dominates, uber active and is the best player on the floor 
>then another he is in overdrive deferring to his teamates, is his 
>job description of being a playmaker for 4 all-stars to near all-stars.

That would be incorrect. I really can tell the difference. And for 
cripes sake he admitted to the problem of not always bringing full 
effort when he didn't face a top PG himself.
Kim 


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  2 19:49:01 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:49:01 +0000
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Message-ID: <1375620857-1257191341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-742055466-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Marbury & delonte packing on the streets of NY !
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: celtics
ReplyTo: celtics
Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Sent: Nov 2, 2009 10:43 AM

Interesting. ? Marbury is such a crazy dude. ?What next.?

Good thing we signed 2nd option Daniels for the same small exception money?and that 
Bruce Bowen, McDyess, and whoever else were our first choices?wouldn't sign with us. ?
I'm happy with Rasheed and ?Daniels except for Grant Hill who is averaging 20 pts.and ?
10 rebounds over 900 FT% and over .500 FG&. Hill is really amazing at his age.No wonder Danny was after him. ?



On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:45:52 PM, "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:

From:   "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net>
Subject:    Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Date:   November 1, 2009 1:45:52 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com


Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
him a better deal. So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
will be made, as it was with Baby etc . .?



<Jim



>After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston
_Celtics_early in the summer,?
Marbury remained unsigned through the summer.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 20:23:15 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:23:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting Rondo article today
In-Reply-To: <0KSH005CVY9PZWZ1@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <994546.38427.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

My take for sure, still if Rondo, who has the ball in his hands, looked more for his offense at the expense of the big three he would be rightly called on it. He truly has to pick his spots. Not saying that his efforts have not been uneven.
Go C's

--- On Mon, 11/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Interesting Rondo article today
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 2:31 PM

At 05:38 AM 11/2/2009, R Howe wrote:
> Glad Rondo has been extended, on the C's he is the true x-factor that opposing teams cannot plan for, his play along with Garnett's defense and Pierce's ability to take over a game at any given moment along with a great bench, makes this team scary good.
> 
> I think part of the problem with Rondos inconsistancy in that one game he dominates, uber active and is the best player on the floor then another he is in overdrive deferring to his teamates, is his job description of being a playmaker for 4 all-stars to near all-stars.

That would be incorrect. I really can tell the difference. And for cripes sake he admitted to the problem of not always bringing full effort when he didn't face a top PG himself.
Kim 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Mon Nov  2 20:35:45 2009
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:35:45 -0500
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
References: <1375620857-1257191341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-742055466-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <E86AB2365639445BB24AAE430E4FB287@D2F52Z11>

They are both locked and loaded so to speak, especially Delonte
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jlyell at verizon.net>
To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat


Marbury & delonte packing on the streets of NY !
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: celtics
ReplyTo: celtics
Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Sent: Nov 2, 2009 10:43 AM

Interesting. Marbury is such a crazy dude. What next.

Good thing we signed 2nd option Daniels for the same small exception money 
and that
Bruce Bowen, McDyess, and whoever else were our first choices wouldn't sign 
with us.
I'm happy with Rasheed and Daniels except for Grant Hill who is averaging 20 
pts.and
10 rebounds over 900 FT% and over .500 FG&. Hill is really amazing at his 
age.No wonder Danny was after him.



On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:45:52 PM, "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:

From:   "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net>
Subject:    Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
Date:   November 1, 2009 1:45:52 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com


Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
him a better deal. So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
will be made, as it was with Baby etc . .



<Jim



>After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston
_Celtics_early in the summer,
Marbury remained unsigned through the summer.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Nov  2 22:21:56 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:21:56 -0500
Subject: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
In-Reply-To: <E86AB2365639445BB24AAE430E4FB287@D2F52Z11>
Message-ID: <20091102172156.C651Q.581184.imail@eastrmwml37>

I have to cut Delonte some slack as he has some emotional issues and should get some benefit of the doubt.  Marbury blew a great chance at a championship by not taking our offer.  Unless he plans on playing in Europe, he most likely will kiss the NBA goodbye.
---- hartleyo at bellsouth.net wrote: 
> They are both locked and loaded so to speak, especially Delonte
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <jlyell at verizon.net>
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
> 
> 
> Marbury & delonte packing on the streets of NY !
> ------Original Message------
> From: joefan11111
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: celtics
> ReplyTo: celtics
> Subject: Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
> Sent: Nov 2, 2009 10:43 AM
> 
> Interesting. Marbury is such a crazy dude. What next.
> 
> Good thing we signed 2nd option Daniels for the same small exception money 
> and that
> Bruce Bowen, McDyess, and whoever else were our first choices wouldn't sign 
> with us.
> I'm happy with Rasheed and Daniels except for Grant Hill who is averaging 20 
> pts.and
> 10 rebounds over 900 FT% and over .500 FG&. Hill is really amazing at his 
> age.No wonder Danny was after him.
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:45:52 PM, "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> From:   "Jim Hill" <jahillsr at comcast.net>
> Subject:    Re: Marbury kicked out of MSG seat
> Date:   November 1, 2009 1:45:52 PM EST
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> 
> Bet that $2 Million is looking a lot less like an insult at this point.
> Again Ainge and staff look like they judged the players basketball value
> correctly and obviously offered a "fair" contract if no one else will offer
> him a better deal. So I'm not worried about Rondo, a fair-to-both offer
> will be made, as it was with Baby etc . .
> 
> 
> 
> <Jim
> 
> 
> 
> >After turning down a $1.99 million, one-year offer from the Boston
> _Celtics_early in the summer,
> Marbury remained unsigned through the summer.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Mon Nov  2 22:29:59 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:29:59 EST
Subject: With new pact, Rondo gains elite status
Message-ID: <c90.511cfca1.3820b767@aol.com>

 
With new pact, Rondo gains elite status
He will be among top 10 highest-paid point guards
 

 (http://search.espn.go.com/chris-forsberg/) By Chris  Forsberg
ESPNBoston.com

Before Sunday's game against the Boston Celtics, New  Orleans Hornets coach 
_Byron Scott_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3483) 
 told reporters that _Rajon Rondo_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026)  should be considered among the top five or  six point 
guards in the league. 
 
 
2009 SALARIES FOR TOP NBA GUARDS
The Celtics and guard Rajon Rondo have agreed in  principle to a five-year, 
$55 million contract extension (an average of $11  million per season). 
Utilizing ESPN's salary database inside the _Trade  Machine_ 
(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) , here's a look at how his salary ranks among 
other top point  guards.     Player, Team 2009 Salary   Gilbert Arenas, 
Washington $16.2M  Devon Williams, Utah $13.5M  Chris Paul, New Orleans $13.5M  
Steve Nash, Phoenix $13.1M  Tony Parker, San Antonio $12.6M  Baron Davis, LA 
Clippers $12.1M  Chauncey Billups, Denver $12.1M  Monta Ellis, Golden State 
$11M  Mo Williams, Cleveland $8.8M  Devin Harris, New Jersey $8.4M  Jose 
Calderon, Toronto $8.2M  Jameer Nelson, Orlando $8.1M  Jason Kidd, Dallas $8.1M

Given that Scott coaches one of those top point  guards in the NBA in 
_Chris Paul_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) , 
maybe the Celtics heeded his words while  nearing Monday's deadline to extend 
Rondo's rookie contract. 
Having agreed in principle to a five-year contract extension worth at least 
 $55 million, Rondo will soon be paid like an elite guard, though the 
player and  team seem to have found a comfortable middle ground that will 
initially keep  Rondo's salary below the top handful of players at his position. 
Utilizing ESPN's salary database inside the _Trade  Machine_ 
(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) , an average annual salary of $11 million 
(though it's likely  to escalate) would put Rondo among the top 10 guards, but 
still a step below  Paul and Utah's _Deron Williams_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2798)  (both at $13.5 million this season), 
as  well as veterans such as Phoenix's Steven Nash ($13.1 million) and San 
Antonio's  _Tony Parker_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1015)  ($12.6 million). 
Rondo's contract will fall below those players, but  ahead of the next tier 
of guards such as Cleveland's _Mo Williams_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2178)  ($8.8 million) and Orlando's _Jameer Nelson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2439)  ($8.1 
million). 
The deal seems more on par with Golden State's _Monta Ellis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2751)  ($11 million), a fifth-year 
player who has  averaged about 20 points per game over the past two-plus 
seasons.  
The Celtics reportedly offered Rondo a deal last week in the range of five  
years and $45 million, but the player was seeking more toward the $55 
million he  apparently has agreed to. 
Despite starting the 2009-10 season facing a string  of challenging guards 
(including Paul, Mo Williams, and Chicago's _Derrick Rose_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) ), Rondo is averaging 6.5 
points, 11.8  assists, and 2.5 steals per game. His scoring is down (he averaged 
a career-best  11.9 points per game last season), but Rondo and the Celtics 
have thrived with  him as distributor. 
After Rondo registered 16 assists, 8 rebounds, and 2 points in a 118-90 win 
 over Chicago, Celtics coach Doc Rivers called his point guard "the most 
dominant  player on the floor." 
Rondo's deal is expected to pay him less overall  money than pacts recently 
signed by top guards including Paul (four years, $68  million) and Deron 
Williams (four years, $70 million), but it positions him as  the cornerstone 
of the Celtics franchise as the Big Three age (_Ray Allen_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9)  is a free agent after this season, 
while _Paul Pierce_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662)  has a player option for next season. 
Paul is averaging 19.5 points, 9.9 assists, and 2.4 steals per game through 
 three games this season, while Deron Williams is at 16.3 points, 8.7 
assists,  and 1.0 steals per game through two contests. 
Rondo's lower scoring average could be one reason  the overall value of his 
contract is less -- contracts always seem escalated for  those with higher 
scoring averages -- but he's shown the ability to increase his  scoring 
output when the team needs it. During last season's playoffs, with _Kevin 
Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)  sidelined, 
Rondo averaged 16.9 points per  game, while not sacrificing his rebounds 
(9.7 per game) and assists (9.8 per  game). 
Rondo, only 23 years old and in his fourth NBA  season, seems to have 
triple-double potential, That's the type of output  previously reserved for the 
likes of _Jason Kidd_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=429) , who earned $21.3 million for the Mavericks  last season in the final 
year of a six-year, $103.6 million contract. 
Chris Forsberg is a  roving reporter for ESPNBoston.com. _Follow him on  
Twitter_ (http://twitter.com/espnforsberg) .

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 10:13:24 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:13:24 +0100
Subject: Source: Rondo deal worth at least $55M
In-Reply-To: <c80.5ed879ac.38205249@aol.com>
References: <c80.5ed879ac.38205249@aol.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911030213t42abf32dx3241738140c67c25@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50097

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:18 PM,  <BDodgers at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Source: Rondo deal worth at least $55M
>
>
> ESPN.com news services
>
>
>
>
> Facing a Monday deadline, the _Boston Celtics_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) ?and _Rajon Rondo_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026) ?have reached an agreement in principle on a
> contract extension, his agent confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.
> The deal is for five years and will ?be worth at least $55 million, a
> source confirmed to Bucher.
> Rondo and the team agreed to the deal late Sunday night, thanks in large
> part ?to what the 22-year-old point guard has demonstrated since training camp
> began. ?General manager Danny Ainge and owner Wyc Grousbeck balked at
> giving Rondo the ?kind of deal he wanted because of concern about his leadership
> skills and ?integration in the team fabric when negotiations began.
> "They were candid and we understood," said Rondo's agent, Bill Duffy. "It
> was ?never about on the court. They wanted him to demonstrate being more of a
> leader, ?meshing with the team, being engaged in the lockerroom. Those
> issues have been ?squelched. I have to give a lot of credit to Ainge and Wyc.
> When there is an ?issue and you get it resolved, it's like a cleansing."
> The Celtics and Rondo were faced with a Sunday night deadline at midnight
> to ?work out a deal. Had the sides not been able to come to an agreement on
> an ?extension, Rondo would have become a restricted free agent July 1. Yahoo!
> Sports ?first reported the agreement.
> "There's always the possibility that there would be more money in a
> free-agent situation, even though it's harder for a restricted free agent," ?Duffy
> said. "But because Rajon is in such an ideal situation, it was my
> responsibility to promote continuity."
> Duffy told Yahoo! Sports that he called Ainge on Sunday to inform him Rondo
> ?was prepared to play out his contract and become a restricted free agent
> next ?summer because they weren't satisfied with the team's offers. Ainge,
> according ?to Duffy, then gave ground to finish off the deal.
> Before the Celtics played host to New Orleans on ?Sunday night in a testy
> showdown with Hornets guard _Chris Paul_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) , Rondo reiterated his monthlong stance that ?he
> wasn't thinking about the deadline and hadn't spoken to his agent ?recently.
> "I ain't called him at all," Rondo told reporters of ?Duffy. "He calls me.
> I don't call him. If he has anything, he'll call me. I'm ?focused on the
> season. It's not like I'm worried about the contract. I had a ?tough first
> week. I can't really be selfish and focus on myself when I've got _Mo Williams_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2178) , _Raymond
> Felton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) , Chris
> Paul and _Derrick Rose_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) . It wouldn't be fair to my team if I was ?thinking about that
> right now."
> Rondo's camp appeared prepared to scrap the idea of further talks and
> consider the matter of an extension closed as recently as last Monday. Yet a
> meeting Tuesday before Boston's first game in Cleveland between Ainge and
> Duffy ?resuscitated talks, with Boston making unspecified improvements to its
> previous ?offer.
> Rondo is earning $2.3 million this season in the ?last year of his rookie
> contract. He averaged 11.9 points, 8.2 assists and 5.2 ?rebounds per game
> last season but pushed those averages to an impressive near ?triple-double in
> the playoffs with star forward _Kevin Garnett_
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) ?sidelined.
> Information from ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher, ESPN.com NBA senior
> writer Marc Stein and ESPNBoston.com was used in this ?report.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  3 18:40:43 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:40:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Giddens
Message-ID: <132001.57487.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

In case you missed it, Celticsblog is reporting (via Chad Ford) that Boston did not pick up its option on Giddens, making him an unrestricted FA at the end of this seaso.


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  3 20:47:08 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Message-ID: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What a maroooon:

"After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets? locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo?s increasingly tired act."

But never mind his latest, among many examples of punkish, bad behavior. Here's what Mister Clueless said after receiving his new contract:

"I  don't want to... take all the money... There's times you've got to sacrifice."

Bwahahaha. Sacrifice with a 11 million annual salary during one of the toughest economic climates since the Depression.

The NBA.

No Brains Allowed.

Ray


      


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 21:39:09 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:39:09 +0100
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911031339l122447e7xb7fcd2c2b0c94a5@mail.gmail.com>

Are you so spiteful because you're still on dialup?

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What a maroooon:
>
> "After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets? locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo?s increasingly tired act."
>
> But never mind his latest, among many examples of punkish, bad behavior. Here's what Mister Clueless said after receiving his new contract:
>
> "I ?don't want to... take all the money... There's times you've got to sacrifice."
>
> Bwahahaha. Sacrifice with a 11 million annual salary during one of the toughest economic climates since the Depression.
>
> The NBA.
>
> No Brains Allowed.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Tue Nov  3 22:03:09 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:03:09 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911031339l122447e7xb7fcd2c2b0c94a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091103170309.MARMW.589673.imail@eastrmwml45>

Glad you can admit your handicap, Ray.
---- Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Are you so spiteful because you're still on dialup?

No Brains Allowed. 
> 
> Ray 


From douglas342 at aol.com  Tue Nov  3 22:16:06 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:16:06 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <20091103170309.MARMW.589673.imail@eastrmwml45>
Message-ID: <8CC2AEA5F5E502F-2DA4-12D2@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com>

Ray, I see your point.  I hate listening to ANY of these guys talk 
about their contracts.  The rich ones spout about respect or lack 
thereof or feeding their families.  The poor ones seek this elusive 
"respect."   Meanwhile, the poorest of them all are making 600K for 
playing a game in shorts.  And many (most?) of them will be stone broke 
by the time they're 50.  See, e.g., Walker, Antoine.



What would my ideal player say after signing a contract?  "I have 
signed a contract that was agreed to by me and the team.  Now I look 
forward to playing basketball."  And his agent would crawl into a hole 
and issue no press releases for another 20 years.





-----Original Message-----

From: davidp4660 at cox.net

To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>

Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:03 pm

Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete





















Glad you can admit your handicap, Ray.

---- Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you so spiteful because you're still on dialup?



No Brains Allowed.

>

> Ray



_______________________________________________

The Boston Celtics Mailing List

celtics at igtc.com

http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics












From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  3 22:31:20 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:31:20 -0400
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W12C1395622806747FE24D3D9B20@phx.gbl>


I would hope most on this list understand that Rondo, in speaking about sacrificing, meant that he was willing to sacrifice the potential of making more money as a free agent, to stay with the C's.  Hard for me to argue with signing a good young player to a fair extension.

 

Cecil (course that's just me)

 

 

 


 
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:47:08 -0800
> From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com
> Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
> To: celtics at igtc.com; celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
> 
> What a maroooon:
> 
> "After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets? locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo?s increasingly tired act."
> 
> But never mind his latest, among many examples of punkish, bad behavior. Here's what Mister Clueless said after receiving his new contract:
> 
> "I don't want to... take all the money... There's times you've got to sacrifice."
> 
> Bwahahaha. Sacrifice with a 11 million annual salary during one of the toughest economic climates since the Depression.
> 
> The NBA.
> 
> No Brains Allowed.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816

From BDodgers at aol.com  Wed Nov  4 02:30:18 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 21:30:18 EST
Subject: Rim shot: NBA scoring on the rise
Message-ID: <cfe.63f20378.3822413a@aol.com>

 
 
Rim shot: NBA scoring on the rise

 

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Scoring and shooting are historically at their lowest in the first month of 
 the NBA season and then steadily climb. But that's not the way this season 
has  started. 
 
_[+] Enlarge_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4620192#)   
Paul Lukas for ESPN.comA new rim system  is in place for the 2009-10 NBA 
season.


To greet the new type of rims rolled in by the league last month, 
league-wide  scoring has risen by nearly five points through the first seven days of 
the  regular season compared to last season. Teams are averaging a hearty 
99.96  points per game, up from 95.17 during the same span in 2008-09. 
So what gives? 
Conclusions are difficult to draw just a week into a regular season that  
spans some six months, but teams are undeniably taking more 3-pointers with 
each  passing year. A few new teams every season tend to decide they want to 
play at a  faster pace and the general trend throughout the league finds 
coaches working 3s  into their offenses and practice routines more than ever. 
Atlanta, Houston, Memphis and Milwaukee are prime examples of teams that 
have  upped the tempo of their offenses this season to contribute to the 
scoring  increase, while Phoenix and Philadelphia -- teams that eventually ran 
freely in  2008-09 -- started last season at a much more measured pace. 
 
 
Seven Days of NBA Scoring
As compiled by the Elias Sports Bureau, numbers from the first seven  days 
of the NBA season in the last two seasons:      FG% 3FG% FT% Pts/g   2008-09 
.443 .334 .747 190.3  2009-10 .455 .363 .760 199.9

Less clear, though, is what sort of impact on leaguewide scoring, if any, 
can  be traced to the new -- and some say more forgiving -- rims ushered in 
at the  start of exhibition play in early October. 
The league switched rim manufactures for the 2009-10 season, introducing a  
new Spalding basket system that includes the "Arena Pro 180 Goal" rim, 
which  breaks away at both the front and sides. Previous collapsible rims used 
in the  NBA broke away only from the front. 
"I would liken these new rims to the ones found on  the playgrounds that we 
grew up on," _Houston Rockets_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=hou)  forward _Shane Battier_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=976)  said. "If you miss on the back iron, it  deadens the 
rebound. If you miss on the front rim, it gives the rebound spring  and your 
chances of rolling the ball in are better." 
Some shooters, in other words, are finding that the new rims deliver softer 
 bounces that could lead to more baskets. 
Yet league officials are adamant that the most significant change to the  
NBA's rims since the 1981 introduction of breakaway rims was made purely for  
safety reasons -- just as in '81 -- as opposed to any potential scoring 
benefit.  Rims with more give on the sides, they say, are beneficial for 
players when they  drive to the basket. 
Spalding's rims also feature a "tube-tie net system" designed to prevent  
players' fingers from getting caught in the hooks used on old rims as well as 
 new padding at the base of the rim to help limit scrapes and bruises from 
the  rim. 
NBA spokesman Tim Frank said Wednesday that the size, material and tension  
(elasticity) of the rims has not changed from last season. 
"We upgraded to the 180-degree breakaway rim to improve safety and reduce 
the  risk of players injuring or straining their bodies, hands, wrists or 
fingers,"  Frank said. "We're always looking for products that are safer 
without tangibly  changing the game." 
Seven days' worth of games last season is considered to be a small sample 
by  statistics experts, but the jump from 95.17 points per game to the 
current 99.96  comes at at a time when offenses are traditionally still getting in 
sync.  
 
 
New uniforms, new compression undergarments, new  warm-up gear, new 
throwbacks, new court designs, the new rim -- it's all covered  by Page 2's Paul 
Lukas. _Story_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/091026&sportCat=nba)  

The leaguewide field-goal percentage for the same span has also risen (from 
 44.3 percent from the field to 45.5 percent) and the jump in 3-point 
percentage  across the NBA is even more dramatic: 33.4 percent to 36.3 percent. 
Free-throw shooting, meanwhile, is at an even 76 percent league through the 
 first seven days, compared to 74.7 percent last season.  
Yet two of the best shooters in NBA history echo the league's view that the 
 new rims haven't had any significant effect on the scoring landscape. 
Said _Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho)  
guard _Steve Nash_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592) 
, who for four consecutive seasons has  managed to shoot at least 50 
percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point  range and 90 percent from the 
line: "I see no difference." 
Added Suns president _Steve Kerr_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=425) , who ranks as the NBA's No. 2 all-time  shooter from 
3-point range with a lifetime percentage of .454: "I don't think  the rims are 
a factor. I would say that the increase of 3-point-shooting big  men, 
continuing adjustments to the rules against handchecking and more teams  seeing 
the success some teams have had by playing more up-tempo and copying that  
are the major factors." 
Kerr points to the example of new Suns power forward  _Channing Frye_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2754) , who sank only 20 
3-pointers in his first  four seasons as a pro but had already drained 13 
triples entering Tuesday's game  at Miami because he's now playing in a system 
where he's encouraged to take  them. 
Further examination of the recent past reveals that last season was a poor  
one when it comes to early season offense, possibly making this season's  
increases seem more dramatic. The league-wide scoring averages through seven  
days' worth of games in 2006 (98.37 ppg) and 2007 (98.87 ppg) were not far 
off  the current 99.96 figure. 
Pinpointing causes for offensive improvement gets even tougher when you  
factor in the protests from players who don't like the new rims. 
Battier admits that he is not a fan, saying he  believes they make the ball 
"more temperamental" when it bounces. And reigning  NBA Sixth Man Award 
winner _Jason Terry_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=841)  of the _Dallas Mavericks_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal)  was far stronger in his criticism,  suggesting that the rims' 
increased give has been a major factor in the  unexpected struggles from the field 
that have plagued the Mavericks during their  2-1 start. 
"I am not used to them yet," Battier said. "So as of now, no, I don't like  
them." 
Said Terry, who was shooting an uncharacteristic 35 percent from the floor  
and 33.3 percent on 3-pointers entering Tuesday's game against Utah: "They  
stink. Why change something that works? Were the old rims [faulty]? It's 
just  like that [composite] ball they tried." 
ESPN.com has also learned that one Eastern Conference team was so unnerved 
by  the rim change during the preseason that it considered pursuing a 
grievance  through the players' union, reminiscent of the 2006-07 season when NBA  
commissioner David Stern eventually abolished use of a new composite ball 
after  two months and switched back to the old leather ball after numerous 
player  complaints. 
The league office, however, says it has received no formal complaints about 
 the rims from any team. The new rims -- tested at the 2009 All-Star Game 
in  Phoenix and in the second half of the D-League's 2008-09 season -- were 
rolled  in at the start of the preseason in early October, although their 
presence was  not officially announced until a news release was issued last 
Friday by  Spalding. 
Said Nash: "I feel like they have no impact." 
Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for  ESPN.com.

From jahillsr at comcast.net  Wed Nov  4 03:02:18 2009
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:02:18 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Message-ID: <000f01ca5cfb$388ad610$a9a08230$@net>

Well some folks are just going to take anything that the team or player does
and try to smear it.  If they didn't sign Rondo, a different email would
have been sent.  

 

This team management sure seems like it knows what it's doing.   If they
think Rondo is "worth" $11M then I assume he is/will be.  (Really, how many
people turn down fair value pay, relative to what they do for employment?)
That said, I wouldn't be surprised with a more aggressive style of play for
a while until the $ excitement calms down.  The season is early, this will
help to stabilize the play-off run, IMO.  The team is looking just super.
Room for improvement only because these guys are that good individually.

 

<Jim

 

>I would hope most on this list understand that Rondo, in speaking about
sacrificing, meant that he was willing to sacrifice the potential of making
more >money as a free agent, to stay with the C's.  Hard for me to argue
with signing a good young player to a fair extension.

 

 

 

>Cecil (course that's just me)

 

 


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  4 03:46:11 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:46:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More trouble for Delonte
Message-ID: <912290.50152.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

WASHINGTON -- Cleveland Cavaliers guard Delonte West was indicted Tuesday on additional weapons and traffic charges stemming from his Sept. 17 arrest for speeding on a motorcycle and carrying multiple weapons.

The eight-count indictment sheds no new light on why West, 26, was riding a motorcycle on the Capital Beltway in Prince George's County, Md., at 10 p.m. with two loaded handguns and a loaded shotgun. Prosecutors on Wednesday added an 8?-inch Bowie knife to the list of concealed weapons West was carrying.

The charges are all misdemeanors. Each of the weapons counts carries a penalty of up to three years in prison.

West was initially charged with just two counts of carrying a handgun and with driving in excess of reasonable and prudent speed.



      


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  4 07:46:45 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:46:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <000f01ca5cfb$388ad610$a9a08230$@net>
Message-ID: <643513.73756.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Put me down as this being a fair market value to maybe great value extension, considering Rondo is only 23 years old and just starting to scratch the surface. 
?
Yes he has some maturity issues but so dont most folks his age, and is exasperated by the whole being a gifted jock, idolized from an early age?thing that a lot of Pros or wana-be pro have to grow from. Sad truth is some never do as you look at Marbury, A.I. as more recent exhibits. 
?
I have hope that Rondo and any young Celtic on this team will mature with a lot of strong pros, a good people development coach in Doc and staff, all who have gone thru some of the same growing pains and maturation process that Rondo and Baby are going thru now.
?
I agree getting the extension done now it is great for this year's run. It?takes away distractions and anxiety factors. Also to think this team only stands to get better as Scals and TA, Walker return to health;?I think when that happens Pierce and?R.A. will not have to log extended mins in blowouts like this one.??
?
Pray for a healthy season.
?
Destination 18, Go C's

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Jim Hill <jahillsr at comcast.net> wrote:


From: Jim Hill <jahillsr at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 10:02 PM


Well some folks are just going to take anything that the team or player does
and try to smear it.? If they didn't sign Rondo, a different email would
have been sent.? 



This team management sure seems like it knows what it's doing.???If they
think Rondo is "worth" $11M then I assume he is/will be.? (Really, how many
people turn down fair value pay, relative to what they do for employment?)
That said, I wouldn't be surprised with a more aggressive style of play for
a while until the $ excitement calms down.? The season is early, this will
help to stabilize the play-off run, IMO.? The team is looking just super.
Room for improvement only because these guys are that good individually.



<Jim



>I would hope most on this list understand that Rondo, in speaking about
sacrificing, meant that he was willing to sacrifice the potential of making
more >money as a free agent, to stay with the C's.? Hard for me to argue
with signing a good young player to a fair extension.







>Cecil (course that's just me)





_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From fthurley at gmail.com  Wed Nov  4 14:37:16 2009
From: fthurley at gmail.com (Frederick Hurley)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:37:16 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <643513.73756.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <000f01ca5cfb$388ad610$a9a08230$@net>
	<643513.73756.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ea1253fa0911040637r4175746p40185dfd31ef2bd9@mail.gmail.com>

Here I was thinking Rondo was a pretty good young point guard, and one
with a ring to boot, and that the Celts were lucky to have a good
young point guard, when just a few years ago they were experimenting
with a point forward while winning roughly 6 games a year.

I'm so glad there are folks on the internet who can remind me that
Rondo actually stinks, and that the Celts are DOOMED!

;-)


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Nov  4 15:12:40 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:12:40 +0000
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Message-ID: <1500483676-1257347561-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1575297312-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I think there is still some animosity with Paul being labeled as the top young guard and rumors of ainges interest in him. Too bad rajon can't just let his play do the talking. teams win championships.


Are we that good or is philly that bad ?
------Original Message------
From: Frederick Hurley
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: celtics
ReplyTo: celtics
Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Sent: Nov 4, 2009 6:37 AM

Here I was thinking Rondo was a pretty good young point guard, and one
with a ring to boot, and that the Celts were lucky to have a good
young point guard, when just a few years ago they were experimenting
with a point forward while winning roughly 6 games a year.

I'm so glad there are folks on the internet who can remind me that
Rondo actually stinks, and that the Celts are DOOMED!

;-)

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Nov  4 15:19:06 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:19:06 +0000
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <1500483676-1257347561-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-copy_sent_folder-1070684344-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1500483676-1257347561-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-copy_sent_folder-1070684344-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <188554294-1257347946-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1589465303-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Sheldon continues to look good and Hudson has a pure confident jumper
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: jlyell at verizon.net
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:12:40 
To: celtics<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete

I think there is still some animosity with Paul being labeled as the top young guard and rumors of ainges interest in him. Too bad rajon can't just let his play do the talking. teams win championships.


Are we that good or is philly that bad ?
------Original Message------
From: Frederick Hurley
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: celtics
ReplyTo: celtics
Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Sent: Nov 4, 2009 6:37 AM

Here I was thinking Rondo was a pretty good young point guard, and one
with a ring to boot, and that the Celts were lucky to have a good
young point guard, when just a few years ago they were experimenting
with a point forward while winning roughly 6 games a year.

I'm so glad there are folks on the internet who can remind me that
Rondo actually stinks, and that the Celts are DOOMED!

;-)

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  4 21:11:20 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:11:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <1500483676-1257347561-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1575297312-@bda749.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <684289.33788.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

If Chris Paul can't handle some trash talk, then he's too mentally weak.  And if Rondo can get in his head, more power to him.  You take any edge you can get and you exploit it--that's what winners do.  Chris Paul knows that and he needs to quit feeling sorry for himself and be a man.

Ryan
 

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, jlyell at verizon.net <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: jlyell at verizon.net <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 9:12 AM
> I think there is still some animosity
> with Paul being labeled as the top young guard and rumors of
> ainges interest in him. Too bad rajon can't just let his
> play do the talking. teams win championships.
> 
> 
> Are we that good or is philly that bad ?
> ------Original Message------
> From: Frederick Hurley
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: celtics
> ReplyTo: celtics
> Subject: Re: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited
> Athlete
> Sent: Nov 4, 2009 6:37 AM
> 
> Here I was thinking Rondo was a pretty good young point
> guard, and one
> with a ring to boot, and that the Celts were lucky to have
> a good
> young point guard, when just a few years ago they were
> experimenting
> with a point forward while winning roughly 6 games a year.
> 
> I'm so glad there are folks on the internet who can remind
> me that
> Rondo actually stinks, and that the Celts are DOOMED!
> 
> ;-)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Wed Nov  4 23:53:07 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:53:07 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
Message-ID: <20091104235342.B8858E18057@ignite.igtc.com>


>Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>What a maroooon: "After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets' locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo's increasingly tired act."

I gather Ray is unaware that the phrase "all but" in English means "seemed to, but actually didn't."

And Ray forgot to post the follow-up article, with Allen's denial, so here it is:

  http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1209513

  Allen denied part of a Yahoo! [YHOO] Sports report that claimed he later
  went into the New Orleans locker room to apologize to Paul for Rondo's
  actions. Though he went into the locker room to meet with Paul, Allen
  said he didn't apologize.
  . . . 
  "I did ask him [Chris Paul], 'What was going on between the two of you on the floor?'
  and he said, 'It was just the two of us out there competing, that's all.'" 

-- Eric


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Nov  5 00:47:11 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:47:11 -0500
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <20091104235342.B8858E18057@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <20091104194711.KA2WW.837900.imail@eastrmwml42>

Goes to show you that you take his posts with a grain of salt, and a valium.
---- Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote: 
> 
> >Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >What a maroooon: "After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets' locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo's increasingly tired act."
> 
> I gather Ray is unaware that the phrase "all but" in English means "seemed to, but actually didn't."
> 
> And Ray forgot to post the follow-up article, with Allen's denial, so here it is:
> 
>   http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1209513
> 
>   Allen denied part of a Yahoo! [YHOO] Sports report that claimed he later
>   went into the New Orleans locker room to apologize to Paul for Rondo's
>   actions. Though he went into the locker room to meet with Paul, Allen
>   said he didn't apologize.
>   . . . 
>   "I did ask him [Chris Paul], 'What was going on between the two of you on the floor?'
>   and he said, 'It was just the two of us out there competing, that's all.'" 
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jaims at pldtdsl.net  Thu Nov  5 02:37:38 2009
From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:37:38 +0800
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete
In-Reply-To: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <382732.72599.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca5dc0$f1857600$d4906200$@net>

ray allen denied he apologized. he was having chris paul sign a jersey to be auctioned for charity or somethin like that.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:47 AM
To: Celtics Are Idiots List; Celtics Stuff
Subject: Rajon Rondope, The Latest, Stupid, Conceited Athlete

What a maroooon:

"After the game Sunday night, Celtics guard Ray Allen walked into the Hornets? locker room, witnesses said, and all but expressed his embarrassment for Rondo?s increasingly tired act."

But never mind his latest, among many examples of punkish, bad behavior. Here's what Mister Clueless said after receiving his new contract:

"I  don't want to... take all the money... There's times you've got to sacrifice."

Bwahahaha. Sacrifice with a 11 million annual salary during one of the toughest economic climates since the Depression.

The NBA.

No Brains Allowed.

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Thu Nov  5 22:34:07 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:34:07 EST
Subject: 'Big Baby' wants to play in NFL
Message-ID: <c44.3742b20e.3824acdf@aol.com>

 
'Big Baby' wants to play in NFL
 

By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magazine

_Glen "Big Baby" Davis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  has no regrets about choosing  basketball over football. That's 
because he's achieved success and a  championship with the _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  -- and also because he 
doesn't believe  his days on the football field are over. 
Davis, the Celtics' 6-foot-9, 290-pound forward, said he eventually wants 
to  play in the NFL. 
"I will try it," said Davis, who's on the injured list for six weeks with a 
 broken right thumb sustained in a fight. "When I become an All-Star in the 
NBA,  when I become a great player in the NBA, then I'll try football. One 
of my  dreams has always been to play football." 
Davis was a terrific two-way football player at University Laboratory High  
School in Baton Rouge, La., starring at defensive end, defensive tackle and 
 tailback. But he chose to hang up his cleats and accept a basketball 
scholarship  to LSU, where he became an All-American. 
"I definitely could have made it to the NFL," Davis said. 
He doesn't have a specific position in mind in the NFL. 
"It don't matter," he said. "I just want to play." 
 
 
Davis is now in his third season with the Celtics. He averaged just 7  
points and 4 rebounds per game as a reserve last season, but while replacing 
_Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)  
as a starter in the playoffs, Davis  pushed his averages to 15.8 points and 
5.6 rebounds per game. 


In August, Davis signed a two-year, $6 million contract with the Celtics. 
He  doesn't foresee jumping to the NFL at the end of this contract because he 
 doesn't think he'll reach his NBA goals by then. 
"No, we've got too many other great players in front  of me -- KG and 
_Rasheed Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  
-- for that to happen," he said. 
Davis found himself in hot water with the Celtics after breaking his thumb 
in  an early-morning fight with a longtime friend just two days before the 
start of  the regular season. He apologized to his teammates and was fined 
for the  indiscretion, but was not suspended. 
Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The  Magazine.

From BDodgers at aol.com  Fri Nov  6 00:46:20 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:46:20 EST
Subject: Paul, Rondo avoid discipline from NBA
Message-ID: <cc6.5ca52d40.3824cbdc@aol.com>

 
     
Paul, Rondo avoid discipline from NBA

 
By Chris Mannix, SI.com 
 


 
NBA spokesman Tim Frank told SI.com that no action will be taken  against 
_Chris Paul_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3930)  
or _Rajon Rondo_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4149)  for their altercation on Boston  on Sunday.

The league reviewed the matter and determined that neither  a fine nor 
suspension were warranted. 
The two point guards got into a confrontation on the floor  in the Celtics' 
97-87 win, for which both players were charged with  technical fouls. After 
the game the two had to be separated while  exchanging words. Paul then 
reportedly tried to enter the Celtics' locker  room but was headed off by 
Celtics assistant  coaches.


From renrile at qualcomm.com  Fri Nov  6 01:36:03 2009
From: renrile at qualcomm.com (Enrile, Roy)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:36:03 -0800
Subject: Paul, Rondo avoid discipline from NBA
In-Reply-To: <cc6.5ca52d40.3824cbdc@aol.com>
References: <cc6.5ca52d40.3824cbdc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF16181526583987@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>

Good for Rajon to stand up against Chris Paul.

Paul plays the most physical/cheap shot style game on offense & defense that I've ever seen from an NBA PG.  He has a rep as a great citizen off the floor, but on the floor he's way more viscious & hardnose than even John Stockton was.

Some examples are,  when Rajon followed him cleanly through a pick, Paul elbowed him hard in the gut as soon as Rajon got through (I think that trash talking got bad after that).   Also in that game he juked Rondo, jumped hard into Perks body in the paint and put a premeditated elbow right into Perks throat as (Kendricks arm was up for a shotblock attempt so he didn't protect himself).  In the Olympics I saw Paul do handcheck shoves after the whistle, and while guys were in the air, during every game.

I'm actually a fan of Paul for always having that chip on his shoulder & being the shiftiest ballhandler ever, and respect Rajon for not taking any S$$$ & holding his own against him.



From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Nov  6 20:25:19 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:25:19 -0500
Subject: 'Big Baby' wants to play in NFL
In-Reply-To: <c44.3742b20e.3824acdf@aol.com>
References: <c44.3742b20e.3824acdf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KSP00M4IFED4Y10@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

It might be interesting to know when he actually made that "when I 
become an All-Star etc" comment leading to the article title.  Note 
that the article gives time frames for a lot of things but not that, 
merely pairing it in the sentece with his being injured to make it 
seem like today. Problem is I just don't believe he's stupid enough 
to have said it recently after the fight that created the injury, at 
least not for public consumption.  If it really was said a while 
back, that's pretty sleazy journalism.

At 05:34 PM 11/5/2009, BDodgers at aol.com wrote:
>
>'Big Baby' wants to play in NFL
>
>
>By Chris Broussard
>ESPN The Magazine
>
>_Glen "Big Baby" Davis_
>(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200) has no 
>regrets about choosing  basketball over football. That's
>because he's achieved success and a  championship with the _Boston Celtics_
>(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)  -- and also because he
>doesn't believe  his days on the football field are over.
>Davis, the Celtics' 6-foot-9, 290-pound forward, said he eventually wants
>to  play in the NFL.
>"I will try it," said Davis, who's on the injured list for six weeks with a
>  broken right thumb sustained in a fight. "When I become an All-Star in the
>NBA,  when I become a great player in the NBA, then I'll try football. One
>of my  dreams has always been to play football."
>Davis was a terrific two-way football player at University Laboratory High
>School in Baton Rouge, La., starring at defensive end, defensive tackle and
>  tailback. But he chose to hang up his cleats and accept a basketball
>scholarship  to LSU, where he became an All-American.
>"I definitely could have made it to the NFL," Davis said.
>He doesn't have a specific position in mind in the NFL.
>"It don't matter," he said. "I just want to play."
>
>
>Davis is now in his third season with the Celtics. He averaged just 7
>points and 4 rebounds per game as a reserve last season, but while replacing
>_Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261)
>as a starter in the playoffs, Davis  pushed his averages to 15.8 points and
>5.6 rebounds per game.
>
>
>In August, Davis signed a two-year, $6 million contract with the Celtics.
>He  doesn't foresee jumping to the NFL at the end of this contract because he
>  doesn't think he'll reach his NBA goals by then.
>"No, we've got too many other great players in front  of me -- KG and
>_Rasheed Wallace_ 
>(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)
>-- for that to happen," he said.
>Davis found himself in hot water with the Celtics after breaking his thumb
>in  an early-morning fight with a longtime friend just two days before the
>start of  the regular season. He apologized to his teammates and was fined
>for the  indiscretion, but was not suspended.
>Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The  Magazine.
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Nov  7 17:51:43 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:51:43 -0500
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
Message-ID: <8CC2DEA19CC69BD-2C80-7549@webmail-d064.sysops.aol.com>

I didn't watch the second half of the Phoenix game, but looking at the 
box score didn't tell me much.  Seems I did see a couple of very 
careless Rondo turnovers on inbounds plays, but other than that, I 
leave it to the experts to tell us about this loss.  All I'll say is 
that losing to guys like Grant Hill and Steve Nash is a lot less 
painful than losing to guys like Kobe Bryant.


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  7 17:57:52 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 09:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Garnett Limping, With Lost Explosiveness
Message-ID: <142055.93210.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

He obviously needs some Viagr@ for his knee, but longtime Celtics observer
Rocco Graziosa -- http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=51164&pid=2673510&st=120&# -- points out KG's troubles:

People aren't gonna want to hear this, but Kevin Garnett has an issue with his leg. He has no explosiveness yet the team continues to try and lob him passes at the basket that he has trouble reaching. This suggests to me, that his teamattes don't know his leg is bunk, which is strange because its obvious in his gate. kept running over and over in my mind) I was extremely troubled with how he seemed to be masking his limp more than anything. It was like he was hiding the fact that he was hurt. He was effective however, but in a Chris Webber after his legs went kind of way.



      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sat Nov  7 22:18:30 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:18:30 -0500
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
In-Reply-To: <8CC2DEA19CC69BD-2C80-7549@webmail-d064.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC2DEA19CC69BD-2C80-7549@webmail-d064.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KSR00LCDFB66CJ3@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:51 PM 11/7/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>I didn't watch the second half of the Phoenix game, but looking at 
>the box score didn't tell me much.  Seems I did see a couple of very 
>careless Rondo turnovers on inbounds plays, but other than that, I 
>leave it to the experts to tell us about this loss.  All I'll say is 
>that losing to guys like Grant Hill and Steve Nash is a lot less 
>painful than losing to guys like Kobe Bryant.

Second half more of the first in a lot of ways. Individually nice 
play but we didn't look good overall, and questionable use of some 
guys e.g. Eddie barely taking a shot. But we lost it mostly on 
defense, which isn't going to show that well in the stats anyway. 
Even when we made a run at the end, we were trading baskets not 
getting stops, while some of their baskets were 3s when few of ours 
were. I was at the game and kept looking over at the stat banner and 
we were ahead or on par with everything much of the game except total 
points and 3s, even with the iffy play.

Nash kept brushing off Rondo against picks with Rondo doing more 
switching off than fighting through to follow, which created double 
mismatches for them, as I'd see someone like Perk on Nash and his man 
open or being under-guarded. While in what could have been a symbol 
of the what are you doing play, I swear I remember at least 3 times I 
saw our own big man slide into place to pick Rondo off. Just ugly. 
*shrug*  We weren't going to go undefeated, although undefeated at 
home would have been a nice goal and I think we could have pulled it off.

BTW, I don't usually harp on the refs and this has nothing to do with 
why we lost because it certainly didn't change how we played and hit 
both teams unfairly, but they have GOT to call the charge / blocking 
foul consistently within the same game. All night long they would 
call the defender being in identical position in terms of when he got 
in place, feet still shuffling or not, etc, opposite ways each time 
it occurred. It was almost as annoying to watch as the way the Cs played.

And 2nd BTW, don't agree with Ray's blogger about Garnett being a 
mere wreck of himself hiding his pain so well even his teammates 
don't see, although still probably not 100%, but gotta say that 
Amare, who had lost a lot of his explosiveness with the knee 
problems, certainly has it back. Hellboy was here.
Kim 


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Sun Nov  8 00:00:23 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:00:23 -0500
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
In-Reply-To: <0KSR00LCDFB66CJ3@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <22CD3A50.23DB.4A65.8607.B3C837A19730@aol.com>

Good analysis Kim.? Except for the in our favor Garnett jump ball?
call instead of a foul call in the Minny game we could easily
now be 5-2.

Missed last night's game so who the heck was guarding Jason?
Richardson, Allen and Daniels?? I thought we brought in Daniels?
for his defense.? His offense sure isn't cutting it.? And when did?
Sheed become nothing more than a taller Eddie House?
3 pt. assasin? My memories of him were of a much more versatile
inside-outside player. Seems like 75% of his shots are from
3 point land. I'm concerned about Perk being our only inside guy.

Would you agree that we have problems guarding ?effective 
3 point shooters, that teams continue to play off Rondo, and 
that Perk seems to have taken?a back seat to opposing centers 
in game after game.

Looking at the box score it appears last night that Nash outdid Rondo,
Richardson outdid Allen, and?Stoudemire outdid Perk.? Hope we can put 
it together against the winless Nets except for Lopez.


On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:18:30 PM, "Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From:   "Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject:    Re: Gee, no 82-0 this season
Date:   November 7, 2009 5:18:30 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com
At 12:51 PM 11/7/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>I didn't watch the second half of the Phoenix game, but looking at?
>the box score didn't tell me much. Seems I did see a couple of very?
>careless Rondo turnovers on inbounds plays, but other than that, I?
>leave it to the experts to tell us about this loss. All I'll say is?
>that losing to guys like Grant Hill and Steve Nash is a lot less?
>painful than losing to guys like Kobe Bryant.

Second half more of the first in a lot of ways. Individually nice?
play but we didn't look good overall, and questionable use of some?
guys e.g. Eddie barely taking a shot. But we lost it mostly on?
defense, which isn't going to show that well in the stats anyway.?
Even when we made a run at the end, we were trading baskets not?
getting stops, while some of their baskets were 3s when few of ours?
were. I was at the game and kept looking over at the stat banner and?
we were ahead or on par with everything much of the game except total?
points and 3s, even with the iffy play.

Nash kept brushing off Rondo against picks with Rondo doing more?
switching off than fighting through to follow, which created double?
mismatches for them, as I'd see someone like Perk on Nash and his man?
open or being under-guarded. While in what could have been a symbol?
of the what are you doing play, I swear I remember at least 3 times I?
saw our own big man slide into place to pick Rondo off. Just ugly.?
*shrug* We weren't going to go undefeated, although undefeated at?
home would have been a nice goal and I think we could have pulled it off.

BTW, I don't usually harp on the refs and this has nothing to do with?
why we lost because it certainly didn't change how we played and hit?
both teams unfairly, but they have GOT to call the charge / blocking?
foul consistently within the same game. All night long they would?
call the defender being in identical position in terms of when he got?
in place, feet still shuffling or not, etc, opposite ways each time?
it occurred. It was almost as annoying to watch as the way the Cs played.

And 2nd BTW, don't agree with Ray's blogger about Garnett being a?
mere wreck of himself hiding his pain so well even his teammates?
don't see, although still probably not 100%, but gotta say that?
Amare, who had lost a lot of his explosiveness with the knee?
problems, certainly has it back. Hellboy was here.
Kim?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Sun Nov  8 00:25:32 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:25:32 -0500
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
Message-ID: <20091108002425.00BCFE1B5FC@ignite.igtc.com>


>joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>Would you agree that we have problems guarding  effective 
>3 point shooters,

Actually, we were doing a great job of guarding 3-point shooters (best in the league) till the last game.

I saw so many problems in this last game (some of which were also present in the Timberwolves game) that I do wonder if it's fatigue from so many games in so few days. I mean, guys missed at least five layups, shooters weren't hitting their shots, rotations were too slow, and so on. Let's see how they play once they've got a few days off.

One concern I have is that Eddie House was playing point guard (well, trying to) in the past two games. This wasn't the only reason we struggled in both games, but it sure didn't help, and it completely eliminated him from the offense. I hope this was a fluke, and Marquis (or, frankly, anyone else) will be the backup point in the future.

-- Eric


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun Nov  8 02:54:32 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:54:32 -0500
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
In-Reply-To: <20091108002425.00BCFE1B5FC@ignite.igtc.com>
References: <20091108002425.00BCFE1B5FC@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <0KSR004OQS3PP142@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 07:25 PM 11/7/2009, Eric Albert wrote:

> >joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >Would you agree that we have problems guarding  effective
> >3 point shooters,
>
>Actually, we were doing a great job of guarding 3-point shooters 
>(best in the league) till the last game.

Mmm, with Daniels part of the reason for that. Rotations got screwed 
up all around last night and Pierce returned to an old habit of too 
often leaving his man wide open to move into team help defense.

>I saw so many problems in this last game (some of which were also 
>present in the Timberwolves game) that I do wonder if it's fatigue 
>from so many games in so few days. I mean, guys missed at least five 
>layups, shooters weren't hitting their shots, rotations were too 
>slow, and so on. Let's see how they play once they've got a few days off.

Don't think so. Tonight they looked tired. They really didn't look 
tired last night so much as in need of a practice to get back on the 
same page and work out some bad habits. Missed shots tended to be 
rushed for the most part or out of rhythm / role - the layups 
especially looked rushed.

>One concern I have is that Eddie House was playing point guard 
>(well, trying to) in the past two games. This wasn't the only reason 
>we struggled in both games, but it sure didn't help, and it 
>completely eliminated him from the offense. I hope this was a fluke, 
>and Marquis (or, frankly, anyone else) will be the backup point in the future.

I don't want him at PG either but you can't even begin to lay that 
one on Eddie. He played only about 10 min, he didn't even bring up 
the ball all the time he was in there so he wasn't the backup point 
in the broad sense, and we lost that on defense rather than offense 
and he played relatively respectable defense.
Kim 


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  8 12:43:29 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 04:43:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gee, no 82-0 this season
In-Reply-To: <22CD3A50.23DB.4A65.8607.B3C837A19730@aol.com>
Message-ID: <735728.29468.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Pierce was on Richardson most of the time, and he was sagging off.? But even when Daniels guarded him, Richardson was hitting 3 (and deep 3s) with Marquis right on him.? Other than doubling the 3 pt shooter, what can you do - the kid was just having a(nother) great night against the Cs.? That said, we have got to defend the perimeter better than that!!? Is it because Pierce and Allen are older and can't keep running out there?

House was bringing the ball up the first time he was in - Tommy and I were both incredulous at that - so of course he didn't get any shots, and we really needed his 3s as we were basically trading baskets with both teams taking what the defense gave them - Phoenix got 3s and we got 2s. We had lots of shots in the paint, which was nice (channing frye against Perk was a joke), but left us behind.? Plus we missed prob. 6 or so layups and those type of easy buckets - that is so frustrating!? plus FT shooting seemed like 50%.?? IN the 2nd half, Daniels was backup PG.? By that time, none of the Cs were in rhythm and long shots just missed the mark.? I would have liked to see Hudson in this game - they could have used his speed and D.

Yes, it is easier to lose to the Suns.? Man, they are good. If they had a center, they would be unreal.?? And who was that backup PG? I'm like, where do they get these guys? He was good! kept the pace and crisp passing up.? The backup forward Amundson(?) was all over the boards.? It's fun to see Nash - one of those players like from the national league, he's HOF but I've rarely seen him play.

And yeah, they've got to stop running the alleyoop for KG. The only time he is making it is as a half layup kind of thing.? I hold my breath every time I see him and Rondo give eachother the look - I'm afraid he's going to hurt himself! 

The officiating was atrocious - they called a tickytac foul in like the first 4 seconds. ugh, it was going to be that kind of clueless ref night.

PS - congrats to Nancy Lieberman? on her D-league coaching gig (dallas)!? The first time I saw her play was on the Washington Generals.? It hurt to watch someone so competitive having to play on a team that basically got paid to lose.? She took a charge at halfcourt from one of the Globetrotters that was definitely not in the playbook. The player was in shock - those games were supposed to be non-contact. ; )

Ellie

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Gee, no 82-0 this season
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 7:00 PM

Good analysis Kim.? Except for the in our favor Garnett jump ball?
call instead of a foul call in the Minny game we could easily
now be 5-2.

Missed last night's game so who the heck was guarding Jason?
Richardson, Allen and Daniels?? I thought we brought in Daniels?
for his defense.? His offense sure isn't cutting it.? And when did?
Sheed become nothing more than a taller Eddie House?
3 pt. assasin? My memories of him were of a much more versatile
inside-outside player. Seems like 75% of his shots are from
3 point land. I'm concerned about Perk being our only inside guy.

Would you agree that we have problems guarding ?effective 
3 point shooters, that teams continue to play off Rondo, and 
that Perk seems to have taken?a back seat to opposing centers 
in game after game.

Looking at the box score it appears last night that Nash outdid Rondo,
Richardson outdid Allen, and?Stoudemire outdid Perk.? Hope we can put 
it together against the winless Nets except for Lopez.


On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:18:30 PM, "Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From:???"Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject:? ? Re: Gee, no 82-0 this season
Date:???November 7, 2009 5:18:30 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com
At 12:51 PM 11/7/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>I didn't watch the second half of the Phoenix game, but looking at?
>the box score didn't tell me much. Seems I did see a couple of very?
>careless Rondo turnovers on inbounds plays, but other than that, I?
>leave it to the experts to tell us about this loss. All I'll say is?
>that losing to guys like Grant Hill and Steve Nash is a lot less?
>painful than losing to guys like Kobe Bryant.

Second half more of the first in a lot of ways. Individually nice?
play but we didn't look good overall, and questionable use of some?
guys e.g. Eddie barely taking a shot. But we lost it mostly on?
defense, which isn't going to show that well in the stats anyway.?
Even when we made a run at the end, we were trading baskets not?
getting stops, while some of their baskets were 3s when few of ours?
were. I was at the game and kept looking over at the stat banner and?
we were ahead or on par with everything much of the game except total?
points and 3s, even with the iffy play.

Nash kept brushing off Rondo against picks with Rondo doing more?
switching off than fighting through to follow, which created double?
mismatches for them, as I'd see someone like Perk on Nash and his man?
open or being under-guarded. While in what could have been a symbol?
of the what are you doing play, I swear I remember at least 3 times I?
saw our own big man slide into place to pick Rondo off. Just ugly.?
*shrug* We weren't going to go undefeated, although undefeated at?
home would have been a nice goal and I think we could have pulled it off.

BTW, I don't usually harp on the refs and this has nothing to do with?
why we lost because it certainly didn't change how we played and hit?
both teams unfairly, but they have GOT to call the charge / blocking?
foul consistently within the same game. All night long they would?
call the defender being in identical position in terms of when he got?
in place, feet still shuffling or not, etc, opposite ways each time?
it occurred. It was almost as annoying to watch as the way the Cs played.

And 2nd BTW, don't agree with Ray's blogger about Garnett being a?
mere wreck of himself hiding his pain so well even his teammates?
don't see, although still probably not 100%, but gotta say that?
Amare, who had lost a lot of his explosiveness with the knee?
problems, certainly has it back. Hellboy was here.
Kim?

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  8 17:34:10 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 09:34:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Garnett Limping, With Lost Explosiveness
In-Reply-To: <142055.93210.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <27942.75276.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I'm chalking all this up to fatigue until further notice.  I just think KG's energy hasn't been where it always has been...I'm not even talking about things he does in the game, I'm talking about things he does after the whistle blows...this guy is our energizer bunny, and he looks tired out there.  In the Phoenix game, after about 3 minutes in (and 10 possessions of constant up and down play), KG was trotting up the court, obviously winded.  Now, he went on to have a fine game scoring-wise, but his wind looks bad right now.  He's a guy that has always been in uber-shape, with energy to burn, be it after the whistle blows when he's goaltending practice shots by the other team, or yelling to himself, or beating his chest...all those things that the uber-energetic KG used to do ALL THE TIME have been curtailed so far.  So, I think he's not in KG-shape yet...

Also, he looks like he hasn't regained confidence in his leg either.  I take that for the awkward way he often comes down from alley-oop attempts, shifting his weight to the good leg and what-not and almost falling down in the process.  All the alley-oops that he's missed look like he's more concerned about coming down wrong than he is about converting...and don't forget the injury finally came to a head on an alley-oop attempt.  He's still easing back into having full confidence in his body.

That said, his rebounding and shot-blocking prowess seem as good as can be expected (given his age and not the fact that he's coming off an injury).  

I'm giving him until the All-Star break before I make any long range proclamations...until then, it's his wind and confidence and not the health of his knee.

And for Christ sakes, can we all agree not to bring up Chris Webber's name again?  That guy was playing on one leg, and had lost ALL the lift and quickness that he was once had.  KG is not BACK by any means, but he's infinitely further along that Webber ever was...

Ryan
--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Garnett Limping, With Lost Explosiveness
> To: "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>, "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 11:57 AM
> He obviously needs some Viagr@ for
> his knee, but longtime Celtics observer
> Rocco Graziosa -- http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=51164&pid=2673510&st=120&#
> -- points out KG's troubles:
> 
> People aren't gonna want to hear this, but Kevin Garnett
> has an issue with his leg. He has no explosiveness yet the
> team continues to try and lob him passes at the basket that
> he has trouble reaching. This suggests to me, that his
> teamattes don't know his leg is bunk, which is strange
> because its obvious in his gate. kept running over and over
> in my mind) I was extremely troubled with how he seemed to
> be masking his limp more than anything. It was like he was
> hiding the fact that he was hurt. He was effective however,
> but in a Chris Webber after his legs went kind of way.
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  8 20:09:04 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 12:09:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Message-ID: <73874.7275.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics 1st for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 15:27:46 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:27:46 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <73874.7275.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <73874.7275.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC2F6852A3A558-77D8-AB67@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will 
then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics 1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 15:36:19 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:36:19 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Message-ID: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I heard Charlotte could blow things up so who knows , we  could see Ray, rondo,  baby moved in a deal for cp3 
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will 
then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics 1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From bosox18 at charter.net  Mon Nov  9 15:41:55 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:41:55 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <709BA5F1776847D9BC007995017401D1@StevePC>

... If CP3 didn't play for New Orleans ...

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of jlyell at verizon.net
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:36 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

I heard Charlotte could blow things up so who knows , we  could see Ray,
rondo,  baby moved in a deal for cp3 
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff
<celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will

then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics
1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com  Mon Nov  9 15:42:36 2009
From: Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com (Belanger, Roger)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:42:36 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <9BE665184612EC41BBCAE7902C7422EFBFBB8B20EB@INVSFOXXCHMBX01.corp.com>

Umm charlotte ain't the Hornets no more :-)

CP3 in N'orleans


roger

Roger S. Belanger
Phone: 1-508-549-2796
Fax: 1-508-549-2263
Invensys IT Global Service Desk
US Toll Free Number: +1-866-873-7435
UK Number: +44-289-095-4803
International Number: +1-508-549-3444

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of jlyell at verizon.net
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:36 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

I heard Charlotte could blow things up so who knows , we  could see Ray, rondo,  baby moved in a deal for cp3 
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will 
then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics 1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please go to http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).



From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov  9 15:45:27 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:45:27 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <709BA5F1776847D9BC007995017401D1@StevePC>
References: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<709BA5F1776847D9BC007995017401D1@StevePC>
Message-ID: <200911091545.nA9FjTPE014355@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

...and thus the "three team deal" was born...here we were thinking it was some fit of genius by some GM somewhere, when actually it likely was EXACTLY this scenario.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:42 AM
To: jlyell at verizon.net; 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

... If CP3 didn't play for New Orleans ...

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of jlyell at verizon.net
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:36 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

I heard Charlotte could blow things up so who knows , we  could see Ray,
rondo,  baby moved in a deal for cp3 
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff
<celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will

then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics
1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 15:54:43 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:54:43 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091545.nA9FjTPE014355@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
References: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><709BA5F1776847D9BC007995017401D1@StevePC><200911091545.nA9FjTPE014355@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <948871735-1257782091-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-75037191-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Sorry Monday am 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:45:27 
To: <bosox18 at charter.net>; <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

...and thus the "three team deal" was born...here we were thinking it was some fit of genius by some GM somewhere, when actually it likely was EXACTLY this scenario.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:42 AM
To: jlyell at verizon.net; 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

... If CP3 didn't play for New Orleans ...

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of jlyell at verizon.net
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:36 AM
To: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

I heard Charlotte could blow things up so who knows , we  could see Ray,
rondo,  baby moved in a deal for cp3 
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111 at aol.com
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM


 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff
<celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen










Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray, because Davis will

then be eligible to be packaged with him...

Let's go to the scoreboard:

- Allen is definitely in decline.

- Has not been signed to an extension.

- His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a multitude of NBA 
clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.

- Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the starting lineup.

- An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics weaknesses.

- One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a future Celtics
1st 
for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 

- Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that exceedingly
valuable Knicks lottery pick.

- Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette.

- Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.

- Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison, Foye and Stevenson.

We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have some weaknesses
and if Celtics management is willing to take on future salary?

Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 16:47:32 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:47:32 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <8CC2F6852A3A558-77D8-AB67@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>

Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.

1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games 
even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
20 other centers have scored more points per game
more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount 
of blocks per game? ?

3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy 
anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will ?
eventually catch up with us this season. ?

Not happy with our last three games after we started ?
out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
and as someone else here posted, no one including
Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots 
are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
with the best?frontcourt in the NBA?
?

Joe

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 16:53:36 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:53:36 +0100
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>
References: <8CC2F6852A3A558-77D8-AB67@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>
	<42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911090853p7c836343k155b13d33433a3a7@mail.gmail.com>

Stats don't matter. Rondo, Pierce and KG(even in his hobbled state)
are all exceptional rebounders for their positions. Perk is there to
muscle big guys off their spots, make good rotations and block shots
*when he's in position to do so*. He fulfills his role to perfection
and doesn't complain. NBA players don't get much better than that.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.
>
> 1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
> 7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games
> even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.
>
> 2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
> only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
> thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
> 20 other centers have scored more points per game
> more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount
> of blocks per game?
>
> 3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy
> anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will
> eventually catch up with us this season.
>
> Not happy with our last three games after we started
> out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
> Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
> and as someone else here posted, no one including
> Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots
> are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
> with the best?frontcourt in the NBA
>
>
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 16:54:13 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:54:13 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Message-ID: <257088320-1257785653-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-417262689-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Defense was terrible versus Phoenix and Wallace seems to be posey, designated 3 point shooter
------Original Message------
From: joefan11111
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 8:47 AM

Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.

1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games 
even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
20 other centers have scored more points per game
more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount 
of blocks per game? ?

3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy 
anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will ?
eventually catch up with us this season. ?

Not happy with our last three games after we started ?
out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
and as someone else here posted, no one including
Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots 
are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
with the best?frontcourt in the NBA?
?

Joe
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 17:06:09 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091545.nA9FjTPE014355@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
References: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<709BA5F1776847D9BC007995017401D1@StevePC>
	<200911091545.nA9FjTPE014355@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <0KSU00FXZQ6P5EFO@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>

At 10:45 AM 11/9/2009, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>...and thus the "three team deal" was born...here we were thinking 
>it was some fit of genius by some GM somewhere, when actually it 
>likely was EXACTLY this scenario.

Not often I get a chuckle out of trade talk ; )
Kim


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 17:19:15 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:19:15 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911090853p7c836343k155b13d33433a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21A711BC.DE05.45BC.8FDB.5C32DC188134@aol.com>


On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:53:36 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

Stats don't matter. Rondo, Pierce and KG(even in his hobbled state)
are all exceptional rebounders for their positions. Perk is there to
muscle big guys off their spots, make good rotations and block shots
*when he's in position to do so*. He fulfills his role to perfection
and doesn't complain. NBA players don't get much better than that.

Maybe stats don't matter, but please are you actually saying that it doesn't get much better 
than Perk who always fulfills his role to perfection?
Trying to avoid being an ass here, but I just can't buy your love for ?Perk. He and maybe
Rondo?would be average players if they didn't play with the Big Three. ?

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov  9 17:48:43 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:48:43 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>
References: <8CC2F6852A3A558-77D8-AB67@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>
	<42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200911091748.nA9HmjPm029516@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Okay, I'll bite.

In business we have a term called "root cause analysis". It's part of LEAN and Six Sigma tools used for process improvement. Let me bastardize the concepts here a little. If we have a team, and each member contributes to said team, is it good analysis to remove the individual from the team to evaluate him?

Perhaps in some cases, but in the NBA I say no. Here's what I mean - 6 rpg was put forward as a significant statistic...the "root cause" as to why Perk isn't a good player.

Okay. But is that the root cause for this particular process improvement (replacing Perk will make the Celtics better)? I think we need to look at that data point with a little sharper focus.

Here are some statistics (used in conjunction, not separately) that might put sharper focus and either confirm or deny your hypothesis:

1) Games Perkins played in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
2) Percentage of rebounds by Perkins in games in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
3) Number of rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent
4) Percentage of overall opposing team rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent

Additionally, you could also break those metrics down into offensive and defensive rebounds as well if you wanted to really see some enlightening trends.

So in the process that is rebounding, do you agree or disagree that it is important to account not only for Perkins' rebounds as a pure simplistic number, but also how it relates to the overall rebounding for both the Celtics as well as their opponent?

Maybe you're right. I don't have the above stats either, nor the free time to compile them, but if I were the GM and it was my job to evaluate contributions - I would use not only those metrics but others of a similar vein to not just look at a box score, but understand exactly how much of the total team process each player was contributing to. I would also use other areas, including non-objective things such as marketability (ticket sales) and personality too, but I wouldn't just say "Meh, 6 rpg, he's a bum" because it would be poor management.



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of joefan11111
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:48 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.

1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games 
even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
20 other centers have scored more points per game
more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount 
of blocks per game? ?

3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy 
anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will ?
eventually catch up with us this season. ?

Not happy with our last three games after we started ?
out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
and as someone else here posted, no one including
Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots 
are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
with the best?frontcourt in the NBA?
?

Joe
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 18:28:21 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:28:21 +0100
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <21A711BC.DE05.45BC.8FDB.5C32DC188134@aol.com>
References: <56a297000911090853p7c836343k155b13d33433a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<21A711BC.DE05.45BC.8FDB.5C32DC188134@aol.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>

For what we need on this team? Definitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:19 PM, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:53:36 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Stats don't matter. Rondo, Pierce and KG(even in his hobbled state)
> are all exceptional rebounders for their positions. Perk is there to
> muscle big guys off their spots, make good rotations and block shots
> *when he's in position to do so*. He fulfills his role to perfection
> and doesn't complain. NBA players don't get much better than that.
>
> Maybe stats don't matter, but please are you actually saying that it doesn't get much better
> than Perk who always fulfills his role to perfection?
> Trying to avoid being an ass here, but I just can't buy your love for ?Perk. He and maybe
> Rondo?would be average players if they didn't play with the Big Three.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 18:39:24 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:39:24 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091748.nA9HmjPm029516@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <8EF3482C.F10B.49C7.AF10.0E73F868BB7E@aol.com>

You're a smart guy but your psycho babble in this case ?is way over my head 
Patrick ryan@ Dobbins af mil. ?

All I attempted to do once again was to?compare Perkins to at least 20 other 
team's starting centers,?and mention he has continued to fail miserably in 
almost every category?except for blocks. 

Just feel?all of us Celt guys overrate him. ?That's all I was saying. ?Obviously
as the fifth option on our starting team he'll never be a 15-20 ppg scorer or
a topnotch free throw shooter. ?But what does he do that he should beconsidered a future all-star?which I have heard advanced on this blog more
than once..

Like based on what.


On Nov 9, 2009, at 12:48:43 PM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

From:   Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Subject:    RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Date:   November 9, 2009 12:48:43 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com
Okay, I'll bite.

In business we have a term called "root cause analysis". It's part of LEAN and Six Sigma tools used for process improvement. Let me bastardize the concepts here a little. If we have a team, and each member contributes to said team, is it good analysis to remove the individual from the team to evaluate him?

Perhaps in some cases, but in the NBA I say no. Here's what I mean - 6 rpg was put forward as a significant statistic...the "root cause" as to why Perk isn't a good player.

Okay. But is that the root cause for this particular process improvement (replacing Perk will make the Celtics better)? I think we need to look at that data point with a little sharper focus.

Here are some statistics (used in conjunction, not separately) that might put sharper focus and either confirm or deny your hypothesis:

1) Games Perkins played in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
2) Percentage of rebounds by Perkins in games in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
3) Number of rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent
4) Percentage of overall opposing team rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent

Additionally, you could also break those metrics down into offensive and defensive rebounds as well if you wanted to really see some enlightening trends.

So in the process that is rebounding, do you agree or disagree that it is important to account not only for Perkins' rebounds as a pure simplistic number, but also how it relates to the overall rebounding for both the Celtics as well as their opponent?

Maybe you're right. I don't have the above stats either, nor the free time to compile them, but if I were the GM and it was my job to evaluate contributions - I would use not only those metrics but others of a similar vein to not just look at a box score, but understand exactly how much of the total team process each player was contributing to. I would also use other areas, including non-objective things such as marketability (ticket sales) and personality too, but I wouldn't just say "Meh, 6 rpg, he's a bum" because it would be poor management.



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of joefan11111
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:48 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.

1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games?
even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
20 other centers have scored more points per game
more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount?
of blocks per game? ?

3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy?
anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will ?
eventually catch up with us this season. ?

Not happy with our last three games after we started ?
out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
and as someone else here posted, no one including
Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots?
are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
with the best?frontcourt in the NBA?
?

Joe
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov  9 18:44:28 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:44:28 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56a297000911090853p7c836343k155b13d33433a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<21A711BC.DE05.45BC.8FDB.5C32DC188134@aol.com>
	<56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200911091844.nA9IiTX3005497@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Okay, so first I glazed your eyes with metrics, now let me equally create a zombie like state in regards to the unquantifiable.

In short: too many stars spoil the universe.

Why (well, literally because they collide, go supernova, becomes black holes, and consume all matter in their gravity well)?

Despite the "Dream Team" (the first one) and "Redeem Team" (the latest one) models to the contrary, NBA constructed so-called "All star" teams usually don't work. They fall to what would be termed "inferior talent" - as all of the other Dream Teams began to demonstrate and likely will again at the next Summer Olympiad (IMHO). The Karl Malone Lakers are another example.  Superstars become so not just because of sheer athletic talent. They are often also Type A aggressive, take charge, surge ahead personalities used to doing everything themselves without regard to others. 

Great teams need role players. They need guys who facilitate the superstars to be superstars. Yes, they need talent, but often its specific talent, usually in one skillset. If Perk were more type A, demanding the ball offensively both on the court and in the press, or bemoaning why his stats could be so much better if he didn't block out his man and simply went for the ball every time do you really think that would benefit the Cs as a team? Perk has one of, if not the highest shooting percentage on the entire team. Wouldn't that bolster his assertion in this hypothetical?

Yet he doesn't do that. He fits into the framework so seamlessly allowing the other more talented players to accumulate stats at a greater clip than were he not on the floor. 

Or in psycho babble - he doesn't rock the frickin boat. He's the boat's keel. Rocked boats take on water. And sink.

Thus endeth the lesson.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:28 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

For what we need on this team? Definitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:19 PM, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:53:36 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Stats don't matter. Rondo, Pierce and KG(even in his hobbled state)
> are all exceptional rebounders for their positions. Perk is there to
> muscle big guys off their spots, make good rotations and block shots
> *when he's in position to do so*. He fulfills his role to perfection
> and doesn't complain. NBA players don't get much better than that.
>
> Maybe stats don't matter, but please are you actually saying that it doesn't get much better
> than Perk who always fulfills his role to perfection?
> Trying to avoid being an ass here, but I just can't buy your love for ?Perk. He and maybe
> Rondo?would be average players if they didn't play with the Big Three.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov  9 18:45:44 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:45:44 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56a297000911090853p7c836343k155b13d33433a3a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<21A711BC.DE05.45BC.8FDB.5C32DC188134@aol.com>
	<56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200911091845.nA9IjkSP016426@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

See - Noah gets my psycho babble.  Good link.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:28 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

For what we need on this team? Definitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:19 PM, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:53:36 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Stats don't matter. Rondo, Pierce and KG(even in his hobbled state)
> are all exceptional rebounders for their positions. Perk is there to
> muscle big guys off their spots, make good rotations and block shots
> *when he's in position to do so*. He fulfills his role to perfection
> and doesn't complain. NBA players don't get much better than that.
>
> Maybe stats don't matter, but please are you actually saying that it doesn't get much better
> than Perk who always fulfills his role to perfection?
> Trying to avoid being an ass here, but I just can't buy your love for ?Perk. He and maybe
> Rondo?would be average players if they didn't play with the Big Three.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 18:53:24 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (jlyell at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:53:24 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091748.nA9HmjPm029516@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <8CC2F6852A3A558-77D8-AB67@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com><42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com><200911091748.nA9HmjPm029516@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <1682386707-1257792803-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1110938164-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Perks job is to be the enforcer rebound and be the 5th scoring option .  Not pretty but does his job 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:48:43 
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Okay, I'll bite.

In business we have a term called "root cause analysis". It's part of LEAN and Six Sigma tools used for process improvement. Let me bastardize the concepts here a little. If we have a team, and each member contributes to said team, is it good analysis to remove the individual from the team to evaluate him?

Perhaps in some cases, but in the NBA I say no. Here's what I mean - 6 rpg was put forward as a significant statistic...the "root cause" as to why Perk isn't a good player.

Okay. But is that the root cause for this particular process improvement (replacing Perk will make the Celtics better)? I think we need to look at that data point with a little sharper focus.

Here are some statistics (used in conjunction, not separately) that might put sharper focus and either confirm or deny your hypothesis:

1) Games Perkins played in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
2) Percentage of rebounds by Perkins in games in which the Celtics outrebounded their opponents
3) Number of rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent
4) Percentage of overall opposing team rebounds gained by Perkins main opponent

Additionally, you could also break those metrics down into offensive and defensive rebounds as well if you wanted to really see some enlightening trends.

So in the process that is rebounding, do you agree or disagree that it is important to account not only for Perkins' rebounds as a pure simplistic number, but also how it relates to the overall rebounding for both the Celtics as well as their opponent?

Maybe you're right. I don't have the above stats either, nor the free time to compile them, but if I were the GM and it was my job to evaluate contributions - I would use not only those metrics but others of a similar vein to not just look at a box score, but understand exactly how much of the total team process each player was contributing to. I would also use other areas, including non-objective things such as marketability (ticket sales) and personality too, but I wouldn't just say "Meh, 6 rpg, he's a bum" because it would be poor management.



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of joefan11111
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:48 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Apologies for my earlier post not registering. ? ?Here's what I think.

1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of being
7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3 games 
even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by him
only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
20 other centers have scored more points per game
more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount 
of blocks per game? ?

3) Wish it weren't true but I begin to agree with the lousy 
anti Celt experts?that we are an old tired team which will ?
eventually catch up with us this season. ?

Not happy with our last three games after we started ?
out as a juggernaut. ?Ray Allen is not going very well,
Garnett has clearly lost a step, Rondo is still inconsistent,
and as someone else here posted, no one including
Rasheed goes inside?except for Perk, ?WTF, 3 point shots 
are who we are now, Just wondering why we settle for this
with the best?frontcourt in the NBA?
?

Joe
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 19:00:21 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:00:21 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911091028u21135800hd2dce024b4f6de70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAC03D80.E612.4981.B8B0.F7A87BF2AED2@aol.com>

With so many big salaried shooters on our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of all-star calibre no matter who 
he played for,

This whole +/- per player thing is ridiculous. ?If ?guard Allan Ray were on the floor
with our three or four future HOFers his + rating would probably be off the chart.
Same thing with negating the talent of players like Bosh or Anthony or Nash since 
they never played?with enough topnotch players to win a title. ? ?According to
these Celt blogs?if even a 13th guy off the bench is on a championship team 
whoopie ... he's a champion.

Guess I just don't get it.



On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:28:21 PM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

For what we need on this team? Definitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 19:03:06 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:03:06 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091844.nA9IiTX3005497@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <9563A514.B22F.43E2.B6F1.A7365FDFD99F@aol.com>


On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:44:28 PM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

Yet he doesn't do that. He fits into the framework so seamlessly allowing the other more talented players to accumulate stats at a greater clip than were he not on the floor.?
BS

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov  9 19:07:21 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:07:21 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <9563A514.B22F.43E2.B6F1.A7365FDFD99F@aol.com>
References: <200911091844.nA9IiTX3005497@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
	<9563A514.B22F.43E2.B6F1.A7365FDFD99F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200911091907.nA9J7NpH015301@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Well, if the thoughtful discussion portion of this thread is over then I suppose you'll have to find a new debator to spar with.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of joefan11111
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:03 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen


On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:44:28 PM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

Yet he doesn't do that. He fits into the framework so seamlessly allowing the other more talented players to accumulate stats at a greater clip than were he not on the floor.?
BS
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 19:12:05 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:12:05 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <200911091907.nA9J7NpH015301@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <5183652B.1200.497F.98F7.15B2E375C512@aol.com>

Guess so if all the members here have your tude in being right 100% of 
the time.



On Nov 9, 2009, at 2:07:21 PM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

Well, if the thoughtful discussion portion of this thread is over then 
I suppose you'll have to find a new debator to spar with.


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 19:59:28 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:59:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <AAC03D80.E612.4981.B8B0.F7A87BF2AED2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <258818.60610.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading them again this year.  He's been consistently in the top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3 seasons.  

And his jump shot is improving as well.

He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.  

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> With so many big salaried shooters on
> our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of all-star
> calibre no matter who 
> he played for,
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 20:07:32 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <42BADD17.0B99.4707.9DE9.BB3F3BFB0E09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <219187.56627.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

> Apologies for my earlier post not
> registering. ? ?Here's what I think.
> 
> 1) We are too old to win back to back games. ?Instead of
> being
> 7-1 now, we could have easily lost all 3 of our last 3
> games 
> even to lottery teams and now been 5-3.

Don't discount the 8 games in 12 day stretch we went through.  That's a killer stretch for any team, especially at the beginning of the season when the starters are still getting comfortable at 35+ minutes a night.  On top of being a brutal stretch in terms of fatigue, it's also a stretch without practice, allowing bad habits to seep in and make things look worse (and older) than they actually are.  We have looked tired the last 3 games, but until I see that tiredness over a longer sample size I'm not going to start calling us old.

> 
> 2) My point that Perk is totally overrated is backed by
> him
> only averaging 6 rpg thus far. ?Why do we all keep
> thinking Perk is a top center in this league when probably
> 20 other centers have scored more points per game
> more rebounds per game ?and come close to Perk's amount 
> of blocks per game? ?

You're discounting the smallness of the sample size.  Perk's rebounds may be low for the first 8 games--check back when we've played 80.  He'll be up around 9-10, which is good considering the rebounding talent on this squad (Rondo and Paul are exceptional rebounders for their positions, and KG is a Hall-of-Fame rebounder).

Ryan



      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 20:07:42 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:07:42 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <258818.60610.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <AAC03D80.E612.4981.B8B0.F7A87BF2AED2@aol.com><258818.60610.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <486463744-1257797261-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-639842713-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

If he was a dominant scorer he likely wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m a year and we couldn't afford to keep gum
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading them again this year.  He's been consistently in the top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3 seasons.  

And his jump shot is improving as well.

He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.  

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> With so many big salaried shooters on
> our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of all-star
> calibre no matter who 
> he played for,
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 20:09:01 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:09:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <57562196-1257780986-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2145269018-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <479391.13551.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Too late--with Rondo resigned, the Base Year compensation rule will pretty much invalidate ANY trade involving Rondo.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, jlyell at verizon.net <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: jlyell at verizon.net <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 9:36 AM
> I heard Charlotte could blow things
> up so who knows , we? could see Ray, rondo,? baby
> moved in a deal for cp3 
> ------Original Message------
> From: joefan11111 at aol.com
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> Sent: Nov 9, 2009 7:27 AM
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> To: Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>;
> Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 3:09 pm
> Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right about December 15th is a good date to move out Ray,
> because Davis will 
> then be eligible to be packaged with him...
> 
> Let's go to the scoreboard:
> 
> - Allen is definitely in decline.
> 
> - Has not been signed to an extension.
> 
> - His big fat expiring contract is extremely enticing to a
> multitude of NBA 
> clubs looking to free cap space away from future payroll.
> 
> - Team Geriatric needs an infusion of athleticism into the
> starting lineup.
> 
> - An Allen trade could mitigate against the Celtics
> weaknesses.
> 
> - One deal Ainge should offer Detroit is Allen, Davis and a
> future Celtics 1st 
> for Richard Hamilton & Tayshaun Prince. 
> 
> - Or, Allen to the Jazz for Kirilenko, CJ Mills and that
> exceedingly
> valuable Knicks lottery pick.
> 
> - Allen & Davis to GS for Monta Ellis and Corey
> Maggette.
> 
> - Allen to Philly for Iguodela and Kapono.
> 
> - Allen & Davis off to see the Wizards for Jamison,
> Foye and Stevenson.
> 
> We'll see if Trader Dan recognizes that the Celtics have
> some weaknesses
> and if Celtics management is willing to take on future
> salary?
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 20:10:42 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:10:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <486463744-1257797261-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-639842713-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <841818.18809.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center.  Ask Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m a year
> and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28 
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> 
> Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading
> them again this year.? He's been consistently in the
> top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> seasons.? 
> 
> And his jump shot is improving as well.
> 
> He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.? 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> > doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of
> all-star
> > calibre no matter who 
> > he played for,
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 20:17:45 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:17:45 +0000
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <841818.18809.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <486463744-1257797261-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-639842713-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><841818.18809.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1970390930-1257797864-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1224507807-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Not a dominant defender, rebounder either, also didn't say he couldn't  be an allstar

His Fg % is high because of his shot location. I like his jump hooks and short jumper improvement
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:10:42 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center.  Ask Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m a year
> and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28 
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> 
> Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading
> them again this year.? He's been consistently in the
> top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> seasons.? 
> 
> And his jump shot is improving as well.
> 
> He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.? 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> > doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of
> all-star
> > calibre no matter who 
> > he played for,
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 21:09:17 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:09:17 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <841818.18809.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <12BD32BE.643F.4AF5.A1A1.CECBFCB8A511@aol.com>

Needless to say I'm a bit animated on this list today having been dissed for each and every
remark made. ?Am actually ashamed of myself for even?venturing into all this crazy 
argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. ?What was I thinking?

So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq, 
Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc, ?

You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to continue posting here, ? No loss to
you but disappointing to me. ?

Joe


On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From:   "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject:    Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Date:   November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m a year
> and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
>?
> Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading
> them again this year.? He's been consistently in the
> top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> seasons.??
>?
> And his jump shot is improving as well.
>?
> He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.??
>?
> Ryan
>?
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> wrote:
>?
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of
> all-star
> > calibre no matter who?
> > he played for,
> >?
>?
>?
> ? ? ??
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>?




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 21:44:03 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:44:03 +0100
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <12BD32BE.643F.4AF5.A1A1.CECBFCB8A511@aol.com>
References: <841818.18809.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<12BD32BE.643F.4AF5.A1A1.CECBFCB8A511@aol.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911091344g20a96256o9dead6ad2461a9bd@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:09 PM, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> Needless to say I'm a bit animated on this list today having been dissed for each and every
> remark made. ?Am actually ashamed of myself for even?venturing into all this crazy
> argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. ?What was I thinking?
>
> So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq,
> Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,
>
> You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to continue posting here, ? No loss to
> you but disappointing to me.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: ? "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Subject: ? ?Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> Date: ? November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
>> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
>> If he was a dominant scorer he likely
>> wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m a year
>> and we couldn't afford to keep gum
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28
>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
>> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
>>
>> Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's leading
>> them again this year.? He's been consistently in the
>> top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
>> seasons.
>>
>> And his jump shot is improving as well.
>>
>> He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
>> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
>> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
>> > With so many big salaried shooters on
>> > our team Perk does fit in well in that he
>> > doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of
>> all-star
>> > calibre no matter who
>> > he played for,
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 22:02:09 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <12BD32BE.643F.4AF5.A1A1.CECBFCB8A511@aol.com>
Message-ID: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.  

Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014.  Not this year, and probably not next year.  But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.

The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide.  Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.  

So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game.  The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> this list today having been dissed for each and every
> remark made. ?Am actually ashamed of myself for
> even?venturing into all this crazy 
> argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. ?What was
> I thinking?
> 
> So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq, 
> Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc, ?
> 
> You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> continue posting here, ? No loss to
> you but disappointing to me. ?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From:???"Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Subject:? ? Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> Date:???November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> a year
> > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >?
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> >?
> > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> leading
> > them again this year.? He's been consistently in the
> > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > seasons.??
> >?
> > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> >?
> > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.??
> >?
> > Ryan
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > > doesn't or can't shoot. ?Doesn't mean?he's of
> > all-star
> > > calibre no matter who?
> > > he played for,
> > >?
> >?
> >?
> > ? ? ??
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Mon Nov  9 22:37:48 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:37:48 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0580C34C.EE72.42FC.AEB3.A9FB6EC866B4@aol.com>


On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:02:09 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?

Well that really makes my day. ? Who the hell are you to tell me
that I'm wrong and you big mouth are right??

I remain thinking that Perk is overrated on this blog. ?Excuse me for voicing that,Is that okay with you since I'm apparently ?not allowed to state what I think without you 
introducing your "people" assume?I'm wrong. ?Who are these people. ?Did you take a poll??

So much for this list. ?What a jerk you are, an impossible dream to have ever posted here and 
not been able to suggest one contrarian thing about our team looking lousy in our last three
games, ?Who wants to hear it, surely not ?you.

Henceforth I'll watch and analyze my favorite team's games in the silence of our
own TV room ?despite Tommy's pro-Celtic enthusiasm.

Joe

From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  9 22:40:59 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:40:59 -0400
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <12BD32BE.643F.4AF5.A1A1.CECBFCB8A511@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W10D4A8A22798F407B08E5D9AC0@phx.gbl>


As well, some of those others mentioned by Joe, arguably are not centers, like Lee, Bargnani, Horford, Noah and J. O'Neal.  Perk is not likely to make anyone incur visions of Bill Russell, but he is serviceable and certainly has shown incremental improvement over the years.  Defensively, he plays Shaq as well as anyone in the league without help which save fouls from KG or anyone else.

 

Cecil (just my cantankerous opinion)

 

 


 
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong. 
> 
> Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
> 
> The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury. 
> 
> So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > remark made.  Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > even venturing into all this crazy 
> > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list.  What was
> > I thinking?
> > 
> > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq, 
> > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,  
> > 
> > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > continue posting here,   No loss to
> > you but disappointing to me.  
> > 
> > Joe
> > 
> > 
> > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From:   "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Subject:    Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > Date:   November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > a year
> > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28 
> > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > 
> > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > leading
> > > them again this year.  He's been consistently in the
> > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > seasons.  
> > > 
> > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > > 
> > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.  
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > > 
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> > > > doesn't or can't shoot.  Doesn't mean he's of
> > > all-star
> > > > calibre no matter who 
> > > > he played for,
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Mon Nov  9 23:18:46 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:18:46 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <0580C34C.EE72.42FC.AEB3.A9FB6EC866B4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091109181847.VKD7R.899742.imail@eastrmwml32>

As the late Freddie Mercury once sang, "and another one's gone, and another one's gone, another one bites the dust!" Ryan, you were correct.  There was no dissing, just disagreement.  Some, unfortunately can't take that very well. It's every person's choice to be a homer or not.  I'm proud to be one, and stand by Perkins as our center.  After all, he anchored the middle for our 17th banner.  How bad could he really have been?  He made Garnett's job easier, and still does.  Right now, he's playing less minutes than last year because we have a solid backup in Wallace, which means we are deeper this year.  I see no rhyme or reason how this post was offensive to anyone.
---- joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote: 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:02:09 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?
> 
> Well that really makes my day. ? Who the hell are you to tell me
> that I'm wrong and you big mouth are right??
> 
> I remain thinking that Perk is overrated on this blog. ?Excuse me for voicing that,Is that okay with you since I'm apparently ?not allowed to state what I think without you 
> introducing your "people" assume?I'm wrong. ?Who are these people. ?Did you take a poll??
> 
> So much for this list. ?What a jerk you are, an impossible dream to have ever posted here and 
> not been able to suggest one contrarian thing about our team looking lousy in our last three
> games, ?Who wants to hear it, surely not ?you.
> 
> Henceforth I'll watch and analyze my favorite team's games in the silence of our
> own TV room ?despite Tommy's pro-Celtic enthusiasm.
> 
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From joefan11111 at aol.com  Tue Nov 10 01:09:10 2009
From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:09:10 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <BLU102-W10D4A8A22798F407B08E5D9AC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>

Call em what you will Cecil but the fact remains that Lee is the Knicks starting center, 
Bargnani is the Raptors starting center, Horford is Atlanta?s starting center, Noah is 
chicago?s starting center, and O?Neal is Miami?s starting center.

And all of them even if theyre PGs posing as centers have been much more productive 
than Perk and his lousy 6 rebounds per game. ? ?




On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:40:59 PM, "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From:   "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
Subject:    RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Date:   November 9, 2009 5:40:59 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com

As well, some of those others mentioned by Joe, arguably are not centers, like Lee, Bargnani, Horford, Noah and J. O'Neal. Perk is not likely to make anyone incur visions of Bill Russell, but he is serviceable and certainly has shown incremental improvement over the years. Defensively, he plays Shaq as well as anyone in the league without help which save fouls from KG or anyone else.



Cecil (just my cantankerous opinion)







> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: celtics at igtc.com
>?
> I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?
>?
> Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
>?
> The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?
>?
> So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
>?
> Ryan
>?
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>?
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > remark made. Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > even venturing into all this crazy?
> > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. What was
> > I thinking?
> >?
> > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq,?
> > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,?
> >?
> > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > continue posting here, No loss to
> > you but disappointing to me.?
> >?
> > Joe
> >?
> >?
> > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > From: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > Date: November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> >?
> > Ryan
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > a year
> > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >?
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > >?
> > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > leading
> > > them again this year. He's been consistently in the
> > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > seasons.?
> > >?
> > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > >?
> > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.?
> > >?
> > > Ryan
> > >?
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >?
> > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > > > doesn't or can't shoot. Doesn't mean he's of
> > > all-star
> > > > calibre no matter who?
> > > > he played for,
> > > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 01:33:45 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:33:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <0580C34C.EE72.42FC.AEB3.A9FB6EC866B4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <126818.52303.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:02:09 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think
> >you're wrong.?
> 
> Well that really makes my day. ? Who the hell are you to
> tell me
> that I'm wrong and you big mouth are right??

Notice that I qualified it by saying that people 'think' you're wrong; as in, you think one thing, people think other things, and we come on here and exchange emails to explain ourselves and maybe reach a consensus here and there.  Every time you 'think' something, chances are somebody thinks differently.  If you can't stand being told that someone thinks differently than you (and therefore thinks that you're wrong), the Internet is probably not the right place for you.  

> I remain thinking that Perk is overrated on this blog.
> ?Excuse me for voicing that,Is that okay with you since I'm
> apparently ?not allowed to state what I think without you 
> introducing your "people" assume?I'm wrong. ?Who are
> these people. ?Did you take a poll??

Oh, I was just basing it on pretty much everyone who's responded to this thread.  I'm sure there are *some* people who think you're right--we just haven't heard from them as of yet in this thread.  

But public opinion isn't really at issue here.  I only brought it up because it accurately characterizes what people have said to you in this thread.  If you remember, you thought they were dissing you--they weren't, they were disagreeing.  And what's disagreement?  It's when you think the other person is wrong.  You're not being dissed--you're being disagreed with...and, as far as these things go, you're being disagreed with in a pretty respectable manner.

Now, you obviously think I'm wrong, but that doesn't lead me to think that my opinion is invalid, or to think that somehow I'll be prevented from writing it over and over until it comes true (and I've been on the Perk bandwagon for awhile now, check the archives). I'm not sure how you can to came to that conclusion: you're more than welcome, and able, and encouraged to cling to whatever opinion you might have...

And not only can you cling and spout, you could also attempt to persuade us as to why you're right.  Sadly, such an attempt at persuasion has been in short supply from your end.  Instead of clinging more tightly to your opinion, and coming up with new analogies and examples to show why it's true, like all people do who truly believe in what they say, you've lashed out at unreal insults, feigned disrespect and made ad hominem attacks, the very behavior that often characterizes those holding wrong viewpoints.   

> 
> So much for this list. ?What a jerk you are, an impossible
> dream to have ever posted here and 
> not been able to suggest one contrarian thing about our
> team looking lousy in our last three
> games, ?Who wants to hear it, surely not ?you.

Whatever.  Nobody's interfering with your right to an opinion.  We just think you're wrong.  Don't you see that your right to an opinion and our right to think it's wrong is the one and same right we're all entitled to?????????  Seriously.

Our team *has* looked comparatively lousy the last 3 games, on that we can agree.  That will change on Wednesday.  

Ryan




      


From douglas342 at aol.com  Tue Nov 10 02:18:52 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:18:52 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <126818.52303.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC2FC348155A0D-4718-8BE1@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>

I shouldn't do this, but...

When one makes an assertion of FACT, one can be proven right or wrong. 
"The Celtics have not won a title since 1986." That is WRONG. "The 
Celtics won eight titles in a row in the 50s and 60s." That is RIGHT.

"Perk is overrated" cannot be right or wrong. It's an opinion. "The 
Celtics will win 72 games this year." At this point, that's an opinion 
- it won't be right or wrong until 82 games are in the book.

I don't understand (nor do you, Ryan) why this simple concept is so 
tough to grasp. Got an opinion? "I disagree with your opinion!" It's 
easy, it's stress-free, it isn't personal, and it probably won't piss 
anyone off.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 5:33 pm
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen



--- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:02:09 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think
> >you're wrong.?
>
> Well that really makes my day. ? Who the hell are you to
> tell me
> that I'm wrong and you big mouth are right??

Notice that I qualified it by saying that people 'think' you're wrong; 
as in,
you think one thing, people think other things, and we come on here and 
exchange
emails to explain ourselves and maybe reach a consensus here and there. 
Every
time you 'think' something, chances are somebody thinks differently. If 
you
can't stand being told that someone thinks differently than you (and 
therefore
thinks that you're wrong), the Internet is probably not the right place 
for you.


> I remain thinking that Perk is overrated on this blog.
> ?Excuse me for voicing that,Is that okay with you since I'm
> apparently ?not allowed to state what I think without you
> introducing your "people" assume?I'm wrong. ?Who are
> these people. ?Did you take a poll??

Oh, I was just basing it on pretty much everyone who's responded to 
this thread.
I'm sure there are *some* people who think you're right--we just 
haven't heard
from them as of yet in this thread.

But public opinion isn't really at issue here. I only brought it up 
because it
accurately characterizes what people have said to you in this thread. 
If you
remember, you thought they were dissing you--they weren't, they were
disagreeing. And what's disagreement? It's when you think the other 
person is
wrong. You're not being dissed--you're being disagreed with...and, as 
far as
these things go, you're being disagreed with in a pretty respectable 
manner.

Now, you obviously think I'm wrong, but that doesn't lead me to think 
that my
opinion is invalid, or to think that somehow I'll be prevented from 
writing it
over and over until it comes true (and I've been on the Perk bandwagon 
for
awhile now, check the archives). I'm not sure how you can to came to 
that
conclusion: you're more than welcome, and able, and encouraged to cling 
to
whatever opinion you might have...

And not only can you cling and spout, you could also attempt to 
persuade us as
to why you're right. Sadly, such an attempt at persuasion has been in 
short
supply from your end. Instead of clinging more tightly to your opinion, 
and
coming up with new analogies and examples to show why it's true, like 
all people
do who truly believe in what they say, you've lashed out at unreal 
insults,
feigned disrespect and made ad hominem attacks, the very behavior that 
often
characterizes those holding wrong viewpoints.

>
> So much for this list. ?What a jerk you are, an impossible
> dream to have ever posted here and
> not been able to suggest one contrarian thing about our
> team looking lousy in our last three
> games, ?Who wants to hear it, surely not ?you.

Whatever. Nobody's interfering with your right to an opinion. We just 
think
you're wrong. Don't you see that your right to an opinion and our right 
to
think it's wrong is the one and same right we're all entitled 
to?????????
Seriously.

Our team *has* looked comparatively lousy the last 3 games, on that we 
can
agree. That will change on Wednesday.

Ryan






_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 10 02:19:38 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:19:38 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>
References: <BLU102-W10D4A8A22798F407B08E5D9AC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W4014491CD01B02453A9E56A5AB0@phx.gbl>


You can sit there and compare stats, or you can actually have an understanding of the game. This isn't fantasy league where you want all the guys with the best numbers. This is real ball. If someone does not understand the importance of Perk to this team, and why he is a perfect fit here when some of those other guys mentioned would actually make us a worse team..  well then you just don't have a very strong knowledge of the game.
 
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:09:10 -0500
> Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> From: joefan11111 at aol.com
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> Call em what you will Cecil but the fact remains that Lee is the Knicks starting center, 
> Bargnani is the Raptors starting center, Horford is Atlanta?s starting center, Noah is 
> chicago?s starting center, and O?Neal is Miami?s starting center.
> 
> And all of them even if theyre PGs posing as centers have been much more productive 
> than Perk and his lousy 6 rebounds per game.    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:40:59 PM, "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> Date: November 9, 2009 5:40:59 PM EST
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> As well, some of those others mentioned by Joe, arguably are not centers, like Lee, Bargnani, Horford, Noah and J. O'Neal. Perk is not likely to make anyone incur visions of Bill Russell, but he is serviceable and certainly has shown incremental improvement over the years. Defensively, he plays Shaq as well as anyone in the league without help which save fouls from KG or anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecil (just my cantankerous opinion)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > 
> > I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong. 
> > 
> > Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
> > 
> > The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury. 
> > 
> > So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > > remark made. Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > > even venturing into all this crazy 
> > > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. What was
> > > I thinking?
> > > 
> > > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq, 
> > > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc, 
> > > 
> > > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > > continue posting here, No loss to
> > > you but disappointing to me. 
> > > 
> > > Joe
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > From: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > Date: November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > > 
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > > a year
> > > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28 
> > > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > 
> > > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > > leading
> > > > them again this year. He's been consistently in the
> > > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > > seasons. 
> > > > 
> > > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > > > 
> > > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner. 
> > > > 
> > > > Ryan
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he 
> > > > > doesn't or can't shoot. Doesn't mean he's of
> > > > all-star
> > > > > calibre no matter who 
> > > > > he played for,
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Find the right PC with Windows 7 and Windows Live. 
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From jlyell at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 03:02:31 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:02:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>
References: <6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>
Message-ID: <89672.47572.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

They aren't playing with 4 potential hall of famers

Not saying he is a star or ever will be an all-star, but stats are not the only thing. Teams win championships and he plays a specific role agasinst bigger centers, Against more athletic center Wallace will be key.






?

________________________________
From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 5:09:10 PM
Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Call em what you will Cecil but the fact remains that Lee is the Knicks starting center, 
Bargnani is the Raptors starting center, Horford is Atlanta?s starting center, Noah is 
chicago?s starting center, and O?Neal is Miami?s starting center.

And all of them even if theyre PGs posing as centers have been much more productive 
than Perk and his lousy 6 rebounds per game. ? ?




On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:40:59 PM, "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From:? "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
Subject:? ? RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
Date:? November 9, 2009 5:40:59 PM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com

As well, some of those others mentioned by Joe, arguably are not centers, like Lee, Bargnani, Horford, Noah and J. O'Neal. Perk is not likely to make anyone incur visions of Bill Russell, but he is serviceable and certainly has shown incremental improvement over the years. Defensively, he plays Shaq as well as anyone in the league without help which save fouls from KG or anyone else.



Cecil (just my cantankerous opinion)







> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: celtics at igtc.com
>?
> I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?
>?
> Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
>?
> The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?
>?
> So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
>?
> Ryan
>?
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>?
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > remark made. Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > even venturing into all this crazy?
> > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. What was
> > I thinking?
> >?
> > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq,?
> > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,?
> >?
> > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > continue posting here, No loss to
> > you but disappointing to me.?
> >?
> > Joe
> >?
> >?
> > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > From: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > Date: November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> >?
> > Ryan
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > a year
> > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >?
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > >?
> > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > leading
> > > them again this year. He's been consistently in the
> > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > seasons.?
> > >?
> > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > >?
> > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.?
> > >?
> > > Ryan
> > >?
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >?
> > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > > > doesn't or can't shoot. Doesn't mean he's of
> > > all-star
> > > > calibre no matter who?
> > > > he played for,
> > > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From jlyell at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 03:09:11 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:09:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Without Bias
Message-ID: <628457.7517.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What did everyone think of this?


Such a sad day. I remember hearing this from a Laker fan this day and saying "Yeah Right" thinking he was BS'ing me. To this day this?still makes me think waht could have been for Len & The Celtics?


The ultimate example for kids and effects of peer presure & drugs that you don't always get second chances

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Tue Nov 10 03:52:21 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:52:21 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <89672.47572.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091109225221.NE46I.716194.imail@eastrmwml31>

Give this man a cigar!.  When you are the fifth wheel on offense, you won't score unless it's off a miss, although there are plays being set up for Perk.  His rebounding is down for two reasons- he's playing less minutes, and for the most part, there are less misses on both teams, as some of the teams, Celtics included are taking better percentage shots, and making them.  A lot of threes have been taken, and are banging hard off the rim and backboard, and are getting beyond the center's ability to grasp it.  And with Garnett and Wallace picking up the slack, Perk's rebounds will diminish.  I'd take him over most of the names below, because they basically get pushed around.  And Perk is one of the better passing centers in the league.  Hey, it wasn't Luc Longley's fault he had Rodman, Jordan and Pippin playing with him, or else he'd have been a more statistical guy.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> They aren't playing with 4 potential hall of famers
> 
> Not saying he is a star or ever will be an all-star, but stats are not the only thing. Teams win championships and he plays a specific role agasinst bigger centers, Against more athletic center Wallace will be key.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> ________________________________
> From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 5:09:10 PM
> Subject: RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> 
> Call em what you will Cecil but the fact remains that Lee is the Knicks starting center, 
> Bargnani is the Raptors starting center, Horford is Atlanta?s starting center, Noah is 
> chicago?s starting center, and O?Neal is Miami?s starting center.
> 
> And all of them even if theyre PGs posing as centers have been much more productive 
> than Perk and his lousy 6 rebounds per game. ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:40:59 PM, "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From:? "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45 at hotmail.com>
> Subject:? ? RE: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> Date:? November 9, 2009 5:40:59 PM EST
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> As well, some of those others mentioned by Joe, arguably are not centers, like Lee, Bargnani, Horford, Noah and J. O'Neal. Perk is not likely to make anyone incur visions of Bill Russell, but he is serviceable and certainly has shown incremental improvement over the years. Defensively, he plays Shaq as well as anyone in the league without help which save fouls from KG or anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecil (just my cantankerous opinion)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> >?
> > I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?
> >?
> > Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
> >?
> > The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?
> >?
> > So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
> >?
> > Ryan
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
> >?
> > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > > remark made. Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > > even venturing into all this crazy?
> > > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. What was
> > > I thinking?
> > >?
> > > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq,?
> > > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,?
> > >?
> > > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > > continue posting here, No loss to
> > > you but disappointing to me.?
> > >?
> > > Joe
> > >?
> > >?
> > > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >?
> > > From: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > Date: November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> > >?
> > > Ryan
> > >?
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >?
> > > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > > a year
> > > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >?
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> > > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > >?
> > > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > > leading
> > > > them again this year. He's been consistently in the
> > > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > > seasons.?
> > > >?
> > > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > > >?
> > > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.?
> > > >?
> > > > Ryan
> > > >?
> > > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >?
> > > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > > > > doesn't or can't shoot. Doesn't mean he's of
> > > > all-star
> > > > > calibre no matter who?
> > > > > he played for,
> > > > >?
> > > >?
> > > >?
> > > >?
> > > >?
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Tue Nov 10 03:54:21 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:54:21 -0500
Subject: Without Bias
In-Reply-To: <628457.7517.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091109225421.JO4N5.716215.imail@eastrmwml31>

Who would have though coming off a championship we'd score the best player in the NBA in the draft, and follow that with another All Star in Reggie Lewis in 87, who died 6 years later.  That set us back a good 15 years.
Until now.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> What did everyone think of this?
> 
> 
> Such a sad day. I remember hearing this from a Laker fan this day and saying "Yeah Right" thinking he was BS'ing me. To this day this?still makes me think waht could have been for Len & The Celtics?
> 
> 
> The ultimate example for kids and effects of peer presure & drugs that you don't always get second chances
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Nov 10 11:56:41 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:56:41 -0500
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>
References: <BLU102-W10D4A8A22798F407B08E5D9AC0@phx.gbl>
	<6C15E047.C8EA.4D7B.9E88.14A7AA621622@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200911101156.nAABuht7014637@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Sorry if you feel that way Joefan, but I took one position and defended it. It just happened to be the opposite of yours. Once you brought up (your words) "psycho-babble" I took it to the next level. That's kinda what the entire purpose of these lists are - to debate differing opinions on specific topics. If it were to agree on every aspect of every topic I wouldn't be here myself.



> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0800
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: celtics at igtc.com
>?
> I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.?
>?
> Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014. Not this year, and probably not next year. But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
>?
> The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide. Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?
>?
> So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game. The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
>?
> Ryan
>?
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com> wrote:
>?
> > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:09 PM
> > Needless to say I'm a bit animated on
> > this list today having been dissed for each and every
> > remark made. Am actually ashamed of myself for
> > even venturing into all this crazy?
> > argumentation over Perk on such a pro-Celt list. What was
> > I thinking?
> >?
> > So Ryan you feel that Perk can make the ED all-star team
> > ahead of Lopez, the ancient Shaq,?
> > Horford, Lee, O'Neal, Noah, Bargnani, etc,?
> >?
> > You guys are such homers that it's impossible for me to
> > continue posting here, No loss to
> > you but disappointing to me.?
> >?
> > Joe
> >?
> >?
> > On Nov 9, 2009, at 3:10:42 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > From: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > Date: November 9, 2009 3:10:42 PM EST
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > He'll never be a dominant scorer, but you don't have to be
> > a dominant scorer to go the All-Star game as a center. Ask
> > Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jamaal Magloire, etc...
> >?
> > Ryan
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >?
> > > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 2:07 PM
> > > If he was a dominant scorer he likely
> > > wouldn't be a Celtic as some team would give him $10m
> > a year
> > > and we couldn't afford to keep gum
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >?
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:59:28?
> > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > >?
> > > Um, Perk led our team in FG % last season, and he's
> > leading
> > > them again this year. He's been consistently in the
> > > top 10 in FG % in the entire NBA for the last 3
> > > seasons.?
> > >?
> > > And his jump shot is improving as well.
> > >?
> > > He'll be an All-Star by 2014, if not sooner.?
> > >?
> > > Ryan
> > >?
> > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >?
> > > > From: joefan11111 <joefan11111 at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:00 PM
> > > > With so many big salaried shooters on
> > > > our team Perk does fit in well in that he?
> > > > doesn't or can't shoot. Doesn't mean he's of
> > > all-star
> > > > calibre no matter who?
> > > > he played for,
> > > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 13:25:06 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:25:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Perk improves every year.? This year he has added a little rainbow jumper and hook that go in w/regularity.? When he goes to the line, I have some confidence that we'll get a point or two. With few exceptions, the high FG% in the league are 4/5 players - duh.?? RE rebounds - given similar minutes, I would expect to see Sheldon Williams to get more than Perk because he doesn't have Rondo swooping in to get the rebound ahead of him.? This is partly why Rondo's RB numbers are high - it's like he is too impatient to wait for his frontcourt to get the rebound and pass it to him. 

You don't think if Perk was playing on Minnesota that he'd have some monster numbers?? Big stats on stinko team - who cares?? well, maybe some people... but not in these parts.?? Do you think Pierce was happier five years ago?

?Ellie

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 5:02 PM

I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.? 

Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014.? Not this year, and probably not next year.? But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.

The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing, how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy long enough to generate enough support league-wide.? Lopez is probably going to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.? 

So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role, averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it as a reserve to the All-Star game.? The guy's already an All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.

Ryan




      

From green00333444 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 13:43:48 2009
From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
In-Reply-To: <433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <351300.86527.qm@web63103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Perk is always the 5th offensive option on floor, whether it's with the starters or bench.  Basketball is a team sport. different players have different roles.  Perk fulfills his role extremely well.

The time to trade Ray Allen was right after winning the last championship.  His game already looked to be in decline in the Cleveland series.  He had a resurgence against the Hated Lakers then resumed his decline last season.

As the team is currently configured, the C's wont win it all without true all-star caliber play from R Allen.

Charles



      


From bosox18 at charter.net  Tue Nov 10 14:12:06 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:12:06 -0500
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8152479D74849AD94FC758E25343D61@StevePC>

This no longer has anything to do with Ray Allen anymore, does it? :-)

Sorry to disagree with the masses, but there is a huge tendency to overvalue
our own players on this list. Some people are still awaiting Orien Greene's
breakout, Brandon Hunter's max contract (I'm guilty) and Gabe Pruitt's
all-star run.

I love Perk. I'm glad Perk is on this team. And I'm happy that now he's
willing to take an open jumper now and again. There's a chance that he
becomes a Dale Davis type 12-10 player, but it would take an incredible
fluke for him to ever be an all-star.

No, he's not asked to take on a large offensive load -- because the Celts
don't need it, and he's not capable of it. Be honest people. He can
overpower many people in the post for a dunk or a short shot, but he is very
slow and very mechanical with his post moves and is only effective because
he never gets a double team. Likewise, he never has anything approaching a
hand in his face when he takes a jump shot. He makes some nice passes on
occasion, but  he also had the highest turnover rate in the entire NBA last
year. 

Even on a mediocre team, he's not going to put up big offensive numbers. He
simply is not and cannot be Al Jefferson. He is a very good defender and
shot blocker. A great teammate and enforcer. A necessary role player. Can't
we accept him for that without making him into a star of the future?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ellie Cutler
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:25 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Perk improves every year.? This year he has added a little rainbow jumper
and hook that go in w/regularity.? When he goes to the line, I have some
confidence that we'll get a point or two. With few exceptions, the high FG%
in the league are 4/5 players - duh.?? RE rebounds - given similar minutes,
I would expect to see Sheldon Williams to get more than Perk because he
doesn't have Rondo swooping in to get the rebound ahead of him.? This is
partly why Rondo's RB numbers are high - it's like he is too impatient to
wait for his frontcourt to get the rebound and pass it to him. 

You don't think if Perk was playing on Minnesota that he'd have some monster
numbers?? Big stats on stinko team - who cares?? well, maybe some people...
but not in these parts.?? Do you think Pierce was happier five years ago?

?Ellie

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 5:02 PM

I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.? 

Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014.? Not this year, and probably not
next year.? But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have
been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age
(24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have
played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get
lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.

The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not
based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing,
how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy
long enough to generate enough support league-wide.? Lopez is probably going
to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in
a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?


So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role,
averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it
as a reserve to the All-Star game.? The guy's already an
All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a
bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.

Ryan




      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
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From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Nov 10 15:52:25 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:52:25 -0500
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <B8152479D74849AD94FC758E25343D61@StevePC>
References: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<B8152479D74849AD94FC758E25343D61@StevePC>
Message-ID: <200911101552.nAAFqSTi025493@ares.afrc.af.mil>

My initial foray into this had nothing to do with Perk being an All-star. My arguments were 1) that 6 rpg as a determining statistic as to Perk's worth on this team was a poor choice, and 2) role players are more conducive to long term sustained winning than supposed all-star lineups. 

IF Perk makes an all-star team it will be for some reasons already put forward by others: lack of true centers in the EC, injuries, being on a championship contender giving him added exposure, relative age vs his competition, and coaches/sportwriters voting vs fan voting.

Given that most all-star teams ARE based on pure box score stats - he's got an uphill battle; however the "pro-Perk as an all-star" crowd have only to look to last year where he was THIRD in the voting. So he almost made it last year, but now Shaq is back in the EC so one hurdle is added (plus Bargnani is finally playing to his contract as another example).

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:12 AM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: Perk as an all-star

This no longer has anything to do with Ray Allen anymore, does it? :-)

Sorry to disagree with the masses, but there is a huge tendency to overvalue
our own players on this list. Some people are still awaiting Orien Greene's
breakout, Brandon Hunter's max contract (I'm guilty) and Gabe Pruitt's
all-star run.

I love Perk. I'm glad Perk is on this team. And I'm happy that now he's
willing to take an open jumper now and again. There's a chance that he
becomes a Dale Davis type 12-10 player, but it would take an incredible
fluke for him to ever be an all-star.

No, he's not asked to take on a large offensive load -- because the Celts
don't need it, and he's not capable of it. Be honest people. He can
overpower many people in the post for a dunk or a short shot, but he is very
slow and very mechanical with his post moves and is only effective because
he never gets a double team. Likewise, he never has anything approaching a
hand in his face when he takes a jump shot. He makes some nice passes on
occasion, but  he also had the highest turnover rate in the entire NBA last
year. 

Even on a mediocre team, he's not going to put up big offensive numbers. He
simply is not and cannot be Al Jefferson. He is a very good defender and
shot blocker. A great teammate and enforcer. A necessary role player. Can't
we accept him for that without making him into a star of the future?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ellie Cutler
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:25 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Perk improves every year.? This year he has added a little rainbow jumper
and hook that go in w/regularity.? When he goes to the line, I have some
confidence that we'll get a point or two. With few exceptions, the high FG%
in the league are 4/5 players - duh.?? RE rebounds - given similar minutes,
I would expect to see Sheldon Williams to get more than Perk because he
doesn't have Rondo swooping in to get the rebound ahead of him.? This is
partly why Rondo's RB numbers are high - it's like he is too impatient to
wait for his frontcourt to get the rebound and pass it to him. 

You don't think if Perk was playing on Minnesota that he'd have some monster
numbers?? Big stats on stinko team - who cares?? well, maybe some people...
but not in these parts.?? Do you think Pierce was happier five years ago?

?Ellie

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 5:02 PM

I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.? 

Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014.? Not this year, and probably not
next year.? But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have
been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age
(24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have
played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get
lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.

The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not
based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing,
how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy
long enough to generate enough support league-wide.? Lopez is probably going
to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in
a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury.?


So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role,
averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it
as a reserve to the All-Star game.? The guy's already an
All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a
bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.

Ryan




      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
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http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
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From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 10 17:32:46 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:32:46 -0400
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <200911101552.nAAFqSTi025493@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W129EB22E305F9A38BC048BD9AB0@phx.gbl>


In addition, Perk's value to us, aside of his defense, is partly because he does not seek to break the bank with outrageous salary demands.  He is in his 7th year and makes 4.75 mill.  Horford, in year 3, makes 4.3.  Bargnani in year 4 earns 6.52 and Lee in year 5 earns 7.0.  Noah in year 3 makes 2.45.
 
Reasonable salary demands allow the team to make the moves it has made to improve itself.  I think it is fortunate that we have a player like this who understands his role and appreciates being part of something special.
 
Also, we should remember that in the playoffs, he averaged a double/double (12/11).  In my opinion, which I am sure that others will disagree with, anyone who is making a conclusion about Perk, after 8 games, is overlooking a multitude of factors which I do not have time to go into right now.

 

Please Joe, do not take this as an insult or anything other than a difference of opinion.

 

Cecil

 


 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: bosox18 at charter.net; celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:52:25 -0500
> Subject: RE: Perk as an all-star
> 
> My initial foray into this had nothing to do with Perk being an All-star. My arguments were 1) that 6 rpg as a determining statistic as to Perk's worth on this team was a poor choice, and 2) role players are more conducive to long term sustained winning than supposed all-star lineups. 
> 
> IF Perk makes an all-star team it will be for some reasons already put forward by others: lack of true centers in the EC, injuries, being on a championship contender giving him added exposure, relative age vs his competition, and coaches/sportwriters voting vs fan voting.
> 
> Given that most all-star teams ARE based on pure box score stats - he's got an uphill battle; however the "pro-Perk as an all-star" crowd have only to look to last year where he was THIRD in the voting. So he almost made it last year, but now Shaq is back in the EC so one hurdle is added (plus Bargnani is finally playing to his contract as another example).
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ouellette
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:12 AM
> To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
> Subject: Perk as an all-star
> 
> This no longer has anything to do with Ray Allen anymore, does it? :-)
> 
> Sorry to disagree with the masses, but there is a huge tendency to overvalue
> our own players on this list. Some people are still awaiting Orien Greene's
> breakout, Brandon Hunter's max contract (I'm guilty) and Gabe Pruitt's
> all-star run.
> 
> I love Perk. I'm glad Perk is on this team. And I'm happy that now he's
> willing to take an open jumper now and again. There's a chance that he
> becomes a Dale Davis type 12-10 player, but it would take an incredible
> fluke for him to ever be an all-star.
> 
> No, he's not asked to take on a large offensive load -- because the Celts
> don't need it, and he's not capable of it. Be honest people. He can
> overpower many people in the post for a dunk or a short shot, but he is very
> slow and very mechanical with his post moves and is only effective because
> he never gets a double team. Likewise, he never has anything approaching a
> hand in his face when he takes a jump shot. He makes some nice passes on
> occasion, but he also had the highest turnover rate in the entire NBA last
> year. 
> 
> Even on a mediocre team, he's not going to put up big offensive numbers. He
> simply is not and cannot be Al Jefferson. He is a very good defender and
> shot blocker. A great teammate and enforcer. A necessary role player. Can't
> we accept him for that without making him into a star of the future?
> 
> Steve O
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Ellie Cutler
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:25 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> 
> Perk improves every year.  This year he has added a little rainbow jumper
> and hook that go in w/regularity.  When he goes to the line, I have some
> confidence that we'll get a point or two. With few exceptions, the high FG%
> in the league are 4/5 players - duh.   RE rebounds - given similar minutes,
> I would expect to see Sheldon Williams to get more than Perk because he
> doesn't have Rondo swooping in to get the rebound ahead of him.  This is
> partly why Rondo's RB numbers are high - it's like he is too impatient to
> wait for his frontcourt to get the rebound and pass it to him. 
> 
> You don't think if Perk was playing on Minnesota that he'd have some monster
> numbers?  Big stats on stinko team - who cares?  well, maybe some people...
> but not in these parts.   Do you think Pierce was happier five years ago?
> 
>  Ellie
> 
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 5:02 PM
> 
> I'm not sure you've been dissed by anyone--people just think you're wrong.  
> 
> Regarding Perk, notice that I said by 2014.  Not this year, and probably not
> next year.  But if you look at how his points, rebounds, and blocks have
> been trending upwards in a continuous manner, take into account his age
> (24), and look back through history to see the caliber of center to have
> played in the All-Star game, it's not a huge stretch to conclude he'll get
> lucky once or twice in the next 8 years and make an AS game.
> 
> The thing people don't realize about the All-Star game is that it's not
> based on talent alone--it's based on how well the player's team is playing,
> how well a player plays *up* to the AS game, and whether they stay healthy
> long enough to generate enough support league-wide.  Lopez is probably going
> to play in a bunch of all-star games, but he's probably going to miss out in
> a couple years too, either because his team sucks or his suffers an injury. 
> 
> 
> So, I can imagine a time in 3-4 years when Perk takes on an expanded role,
> averages something like 16 and 12, is playing on a good team, and makes it
> as a reserve to the All-Star game.  The guy's already an
> All-Defensive-caliber player...with seasoning and opportunities to take a
> bigger role on offense, I think he has a great chance.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
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From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 18:48:29 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:48:29 -0500
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <200911101552.nAAFqSTi025493@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<B8152479D74849AD94FC758E25343D61@StevePC>
	<200911101552.nAAFqSTi025493@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <0KSW00KYLPL13640@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 10:52 AM 11/10/2009, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>My initial foray into this had nothing to do with Perk being an 
>All-star. My arguments were 1) that 6 rpg as a determining statistic 
>as to Perk's worth on this team was a poor choice, and 2) role 
>players are more conducive to long term sustained winning than 
>supposed all-star lineups.
>
>IF Perk makes an all-star team it will be for some reasons already 
>put forward by others: lack of true centers in the EC, injuries, 
>being on a championship contender giving him added exposure, 
>relative age vs his competition, and coaches/sportwriters voting vs fan voting.

One more. Being genuinely one of the dominant players at his position 
in at least one category - defense. Defense doesn't usually get All 
Star nods, and doesn't generate clear stats, but it's the one that 
would make a difference with him if he ever does get chosen, 
especially playing on a team noted for D to add visibility.

>Given that most all-star teams ARE based on pure box score stats - 
>he's got an uphill battle;

Yup.

Plus it's just not going to happen that he'll be voted in so long as 
Howard is in the same division, because even when Perk has outplayed 
him head to head, perception is reality and Howard is Superman to the 
fans who vote.
Kim 


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 19:01:53 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:01:53 -0500
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <BLU102-W129EB22E305F9A38BC048BD9AB0@phx.gbl>
References: <748120.75553.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<433468.85251.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU102-W129EB22E305F9A38BC048BD9AB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KSW00K9ZQ7EF960@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:32 PM 11/10/2009, Cecil Wright wrote:

>In addition, Perk's value to us, aside of his defense, is partly 
>because he does not seek to break the bank with outrageous salary 
>demands.  He is in his 7th year and makes 4.75 mill.  Horford, in 
>year 3, makes 4.3.  Bargnani in year 4 earns 6.52 and Lee in year 5 
>earns 7.0.  Noah in year 3 makes 2.45.

Yeah, but don't get too carried away with this comparison. Horford 
and I think Bargnani (option year) are still under rookie contracts 
with the values pre-set. Noah is as well. While remember that Perk 
has improved significantly over the life of that contract. At the 
time he signed it, he was largely (including on this list) considered 
highly overpaid (I didn't because I thought he would develop enough 
to justify it, but I agree that he wasn't worth it when he signed it) 
and I don't think most people could have predicted how much he has 
developed, to make it seem the other way. I still don't think he'll 
look to break the bank when it expires after next season, but he will 
likely get a significant raise.
Kim 


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 23:19:50 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Perk as an all-star
In-Reply-To: <B8152479D74849AD94FC758E25343D61@StevePC>
Message-ID: <769882.34661.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Once the Suns figured out that the Cs were going to go inside all night, they at one point *triple* teamed Perk.? Overpowering people in the paint for a short shot is a good thing! That's what old-fashioned centers do.?? Do you really see no improvement?? just curious.? What do you think of his new physique??? He is much more fluid, imho.

Ellie

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

From: Steve Ouellette <bosox18 at charter.net>
Subject: Perk as an all-star
To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:12 AM

This no longer has anything to do with Ray Allen anymore, does it? :-)

Sorry to disagree with the masses, but there is a huge tendency to overvalue
our own players on this list. Some people are still awaiting Orien Greene's
breakout, Brandon Hunter's max contract (I'm guilty) and Gabe Pruitt's
all-star run.

I love Perk. I'm glad Perk is on this team. And I'm happy that now he's
willing to take an open jumper now and again. There's a chance that he
becomes a Dale Davis type 12-10 player, but it would take an incredible
fluke for him to ever be an all-star.

No, he's not asked to take on a large offensive load -- because the Celts
don't need it, and he's not capable of it. Be honest people. He can
overpower many people in the post for a dunk or a short shot, but he is very
slow and very mechanical with his post moves and is only effective because
he never gets a double team. Likewise, he never has anything approaching a
hand in his face when he takes a jump shot. He makes some nice passes on
occasion, but? he also had the highest turnover rate in the entire NBA last
year. 

Even on a mediocre team, he's not going to put up big offensive numbers. He
simply is not and cannot be Al Jefferson. He is a very good defender and
shot blocker. A great teammate and enforcer. A necessary role player. Can't
we accept him for that without making him into a star of the future?

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ellie Cutler
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:25 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: It's Time To Trade Ray Allen

Perk improves every year.? This year he has added a little rainbow jumper
and hook that go in w/regularity.? When he goes to the line, I have some
confidence that we'll get a point or two. With few exceptions, the high FG%
in the league are 4/5 players - duh.?? RE rebounds - given similar minutes,
I would expect to see Sheldon Williams to get more than Perk because he
doesn't have Rondo swooping in to get the rebound ahead of him.? This is
partly why Rondo's RB numbers are high - it's like he is too impatient to
wait for his frontcourt to get the rebound and pass it to him. 

You don't think if Perk was playing on Minnesota that he'd have some monster
numbers?? Big stats on stinko team - who cares?? well, maybe some people...
but not in these parts.?? Do you think Pierce was happier five years ago?

?Ellie

-



      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 00:46:53 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:46:53 -0500
Subject: another idle thought
Message-ID: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>

This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.  And on our 
injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us 
a very good quantity of quality minutes.  Oh come on - Davis already 
has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.  I suspect that if this team were 
healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with 
Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.  Or might Hudson be a 
fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?



And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?  I want to 
diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:  he came in with an 
attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.  "I don't want to 
be a reserve."  OK, Allen, it's been nice.  You were always very 
entertaining to watch.  Just because you can't age gracefully like some 
folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you 
brought to the game.  And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine: 
  to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in 
life and death of his once-stellar career.


From bosox18 at charter.net  Wed Nov 11 00:51:49 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:51:49 -0500
Subject: another idle thought
In-Reply-To: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <EBE53D0CBC8A41709CCA0923699EFD7A@StevePC>

I'm not saying anything ... but Iverson sounds a lot like a certain Stephon
Marbury, Danny has always liked AI, and everyone is still bitching about
getting another ballhandler ....

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of douglas342 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:47 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: another idle thought

This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.  And on our 
injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us 
a very good quantity of quality minutes.  Oh come on - Davis already 
has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.  I suspect that if this team were 
healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with 
Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.  Or might Hudson be a 
fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?



And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?  I want to 
diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:  he came in with an 
attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.  "I don't want to 
be a reserve."  OK, Allen, it's been nice.  You were always very 
entertaining to watch.  Just because you can't age gracefully like some 
folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you 
brought to the game.  And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine: 
  to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in 
life and death of his once-stellar career.

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 01:56:58 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: another idle thought
In-Reply-To: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <883357.58756.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Golden sate might still be looking to move Stephen Jackson. Could Baby & Tony, Giddens or Walker get him? He would be another big time scorer




________________________________
From: "douglas342 at aol.com" <douglas342 at aol.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 4:46:53 PM
Subject: another idle thought

This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.? And on our injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us a very good quantity of quality minutes.? Oh come on - Davis already has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.? I suspect that if this team were healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.? Or might Hudson be a fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?



And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?? I want to diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:? he came in with an attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.? "I don't want to be a reserve."? OK, Allen, it's been nice.? You were always very entertaining to watch.? Just because you can't age gracefully like some folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you brought to the game.? And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine:? to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in life and death of his once-stellar career.

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 10:49:04 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:49:04 +0100
Subject: another idle thought
In-Reply-To: <883357.58756.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com>
	<883357.58756.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911110249m1b55bccdme1c1a0827f9f982f@mail.gmail.com>

No, no and more no. That guy is a cancer.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:56 AM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> Golden sate might still be looking to move Stephen Jackson. Could Baby & Tony, Giddens or Walker get him? He would be another big time scorer
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "douglas342 at aol.com" <douglas342 at aol.com>
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 4:46:53 PM
> Subject: another idle thought
>
> This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.? And on our injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us a very good quantity of quality minutes.? Oh come on - Davis already has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.? I suspect that if this team were healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.? Or might Hudson be a fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?
>
>
>
> And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?? I want to diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:? he came in with an attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.? "I don't want to be a reserve."? OK, Allen, it's been nice.? You were always very entertaining to watch.? Just because you can't age gracefully like some folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you brought to the game.? And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine:? to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in life and death of his once-stellar career.
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 14:24:19 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:24:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble tonight?
Message-ID: <986750.56071.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I will be quite pleased if we handle the Jazz tonight--"handle" meaning a solid victory rather than a come-from-behind, lucky-to-win affair.? Utah is both tough and athletic and should be a good test for whether we're solid or not.? I've only seen the Bulls game and thought our defense was porous.? Since we had such a big lead for most of the game, that might not be an accurate picture.? Still, we will have trouble with teams like Miami, the Bulls (in Chicago), the Suns, Lakers--all those with speed and fire-power.? Committing to team defense is the key; without that our older men have trouble keeping up with quality slashers and hot jump-shooters.? We need the bench to slash more and bomb less, imo.? I like House and Wallace, but their bombs cannot carry us consistently.? For Doc to suggest that spreading the floor is important is a "duh" response; spreading the floor without anyone driving to the hoop is meaningless; unless the bombs are
 falling we're in trouble.? I like Wallace when he's shooting 3 per game rather than 6 to 8.? 
?
Do we need Baby and Tony to up the athleticism level?? ?Cheers, Gene


      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 14:37:39 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:37:39 +0000
Subject: another idle thought
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911110249m1b55bccdme1c1a0827f9f982f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CC307F9893A177-47B0-8F9@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com><883357.58756.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com><56a297000911110249m1b55bccdme1c1a0827f9f982f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1628371288-1257950258-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-786811866-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Just like artest!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:49:04 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: another idle thought

No, no and more no. That guy is a cancer.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:56 AM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> Golden sate might still be looking to move Stephen Jackson. Could Baby & Tony, Giddens or Walker get him? He would be another big time scorer
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: "douglas342 at aol.com" <douglas342 at aol.com>
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 4:46:53 PM
> Subject: another idle thought
>
> This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.? And on our injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us a very good quantity of quality minutes.? Oh come on - Davis already has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.? I suspect that if this team were healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.? Or might Hudson be a fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?
>
>
>
> And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?? I want to diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:? he came in with an attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.? "I don't want to be a reserve."? OK, Allen, it's been nice.? You were always very entertaining to watch.? Just because you can't age gracefully like some folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you brought to the game.? And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine:? to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in life and death of his once-stellar career.
>
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Wed Nov 11 14:39:16 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 9:39:16 -0500
Subject: another idle thought
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911110249m1b55bccdme1c1a0827f9f982f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091111093916.FFPDX.728636.imail@eastrmwml30>

Plus, Jackson is going to want to start.  I'm not benching a class guy like Ray Allen to appease this head case.
---- Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote: 
> No, no and more no. That guy is a cancer.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:56 AM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> > Golden sate might still be looking to move Stephen Jackson. Could Baby & Tony, Giddens or Walker get him? He would be another big time scorer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "douglas342 at aol.com" <douglas342 at aol.com>
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 4:46:53 PM
> > Subject: another idle thought
> >
> > This team is 7-1, which is (I think) the best in the NBA.? And on our injury list are Davis and Allen, both of whom are capable of giving us a very good quantity of quality minutes.? Oh come on - Davis already has, and Tony CAN ... sometimes.? I suspect that if this team were healthy, we'd see Scal and Giddens in suits most of the time, with Walker and Allen both getting some playing time.? Or might Hudson be a fixture behind the bench, with Allen dressing regularly?
> >
> >
> >
> > And oh yeah - aren't we all glad we didn't sign Iverson?? I want to diss the guy big time, but he's consistent:? he came in with an attitude and he's going out with that some attitude.? "I don't want to be a reserve."? OK, Allen, it's been nice.? You were always very entertaining to watch.? Just because you can't age gracefully like some folks (R. Wallace, Bill Walton, for example) doesn't diminish what you brought to the game.? And a tip of the hat to the oft-maligned Antoine:? to his credit, I never read about him complaining about his lot in life and death of his once-stellar career.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 15:13:21 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:13:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble tonight?
In-Reply-To: <986750.56071.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <742571.78255.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Subject: trouble tonight?
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 8:24 AM
> I will be quite pleased if we handle
> the Jazz tonight--"handle" meaning a solid victory rather
> than a come-from-behind, lucky-to-win affair.? Utah is both
> tough and athletic and should be a good test for whether
> we're solid or not.? 

I expect an easy win tonight.  First, the Jazz are banged up in the backcourt.  D Williams is a game time decision with a calf problem.  Their starting 2 guard is out.  Rondo has historically struggled a little against Williams--I think tonight that changes one way or another.  And the Cs have historically been pretty tough after a couple days off and a couple days of practice.  Their D has been slipping in the last week.  The two days of practice should have rectified that.  They'll be itching to regain the dominance that slowly eroded as their 8 in 12 stretch ground down to its end.  

> I've only seen the Bulls game and
> thought our defense was porous.? Since we had such a big
> lead for most of the game, that might not be an accurate
> picture.? Still, we will have trouble with teams like
> Miami, the Bulls (in Chicago), the Suns, Lakers--all those
> with speed and fire-power.? Committing to team defense is
> the key; without that our older men have trouble keeping up
> with quality slashers and hot jump-shooters.? We need the
> bench to slash more and bomb less, imo.? I like House and
> Wallace, but their bombs cannot carry us consistently.? For
> Doc to suggest that spreading the floor is important is a
> "duh" response; spreading the floor without anyone driving
> to the hoop is meaningless; unless the bombs are
>  falling we're in trouble.? 

Well said, Gene, though I suspect we'll be taking a lot of 3s this season anyway.  I thought Doc was a little disingenious with his floor spacing comment--that's the same reasoning he uses to play Eddie at point and while it's technically true, it ignores all the other good reasons why it's detrimental (it discourages ball movement, player movement, and encourages passive jump shooting, and lets the other team's defense off easy).  For all Doc's spin about getting rest for his veterans, taking the ball out of Rondo's hands, playing Eddie at the point, and 'spreading' the floor all contribute to an overuse of Paul and Ray, shifting the shot creating burden on them.  I know it's a small sample size, but once again Doc is overplaying Ray/Paul to satisfy his short-term, win-at-all-costs mentality.  It needs to end soon.   

> I like Wallace when he's
> shooting 3 per game rather than 6 to 8.? 
> ?
> Do we need Baby and Tony to up the athleticism level??
> ?Cheers, Gene
> 

We definitely could use them both.  TA's presence allows us another real 2-guard, somebody who can guard his position and get to the rim.  We only have one of those players on the 2nd team right now and on the nights when the shots aren't falling, TA would be a good alternative.  He could also allow Doc to go to a full bench unit, getting more rest to Ray/Paul. 

Baby is a scorer for sure and while Williams has surprised it would be nice to have another player to bang against centers.  Williams has done well, though, especially in the rebounding department and with his 15-footer.  

Bill Walker, actually, is the closest to returning and he could give us another athlete on the 2nd unit.  With Scal having continued problems with his back, Bill might actually dress tonight.  He's practiced the last 2 days and has reported no problems with the knee.  But, even if he dresses, it's doubtful he plays, except maybe in late garbage time.

Ryan


      


From jahillsr at comcast.net  Wed Nov 11 18:33:23 2009
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (jahillsr at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:33:23 +0000
Subject: Perk as an all-star
Message-ID: <642410876-1257964406-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1439852811-@bda551.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Its being reported that Perk is on the All-Star ballot. That is certainly a good start to actually being voted for!
<Jim
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From Eric at EricAlbert.net  Thu Nov 12 05:19:53 2009
From: Eric at EricAlbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:19:53 -0500
Subject: Tonight's game
Message-ID: <1258003193.6330.1344816875@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Any questions?

-- Eric


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 12 11:53:44 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:53:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tonight's game
In-Reply-To: <1258003193.6330.1344816875@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <651607.61612.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I guess I'd rather see your question than a full recounting of the game.? But, just one:? since I was surprised to see? Bill Walker's name on the roster and not Scal's, was there any explanation of that, and did Walker appear to move well?? Gene

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net> wrote:

From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
Subject: Tonight's game
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:19 PM

Any questions?

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 12 12:03:38 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:03:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tonight's game
In-Reply-To: <651607.61612.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <871227.35352.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Scal's back is still locking up on him with spasms and the like.  Doc thought he might be out a week.

Bill was the last player off the bench and didn't get much time to stretch his legs.  He seemed fine though.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 11/12/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Tonight's game
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:53 AM
> I guess I'd rather see your question
> than a full recounting of the game.? But, just one:? since
> I was surprised to see? Bill Walker's name on the roster
> and not Scal's, was there any explanation of that, and did
> Walker appear to move well?? Gene
> 
> --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
> wrote:
> 
> From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
> Subject: Tonight's game
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:19 PM
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 12 12:37:19 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tonight's game
In-Reply-To: <1258003193.6330.1344816875@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <426477.48930.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

yeah, baby!?? Man, the whole team looked so slick last night - great to watch.? That's the team right there that can beat the Lakers, Phoenix, Orlando, and the Harlem Globetrotters!? Doc needs to manage the schedule and minutes so we can play like that in April.?? Defense was very quick on their feet.? You can really tell now when the over 30s are playing a bunched up schedule, and it shows in movement (or lack of), and shots going in the basket.?? It is a testament to the team that they manage to stay in games where they are shooting like crap and the other team is making everything, which happened a few times recently.

And Perk, ooh that behind the back pass he made was seamless - that is some offense!? He was so solid, and more than deserving of the all-star ballot.?? Rondo had a couple of his patented change-direction layups that left Deron Williams standing there looking stupid - I never get tired of seeing that move.

Shelden Williams now looks like he has magnets on his hands, with some fierce rebounding. Now there's the landlord we used to know. He is money from the line, and knows how to get there.? He's a great pairing with Wallace, who doesn't have to go anywhere inside (though I thought I saw him make a layup last night, but I might have been dreaming).? This was such a great pickup for the Cs.

Bill Walker sighting!? Too brief to tell anything.? Giddens just doesn't know how to play team ball yet.? I would have liked to see Hudson earlier in the 4th against Eric Maynor, like I wished that against the PG who came off the bench for Utah.? C'mon Doc!

Still too many O rebounds for the other team...

Look forward to seeing the Hawks. Perk now more mobile against Horford.

Ellie



--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net> wrote:

From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
Subject: Tonight's game
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:19 AM

Any questions?

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Nov 12 14:47:12 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:47:12 +0000
Subject: Tonight's game
In-Reply-To: <426477.48930.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <1258003193.6330.1344816875@webmail.messagingengine.com><426477.48930.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <754120935-1258037230-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1082869507-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Yeah they played  real well. that one passing instance you mention was impressive.  williams may make baby expendable for a younger 2/3 to eventually replace Ray. Azubuike would be nice
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:37:19 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Tonight's game

yeah, baby!?? Man, the whole team looked so slick last night - great to watch.? That's the team right there that can beat the Lakers, Phoenix, Orlando, and the Harlem Globetrotters!? Doc needs to manage the schedule and minutes so we can play like that in April.?? Defense was very quick on their feet.? You can really tell now when the over 30s are playing a bunched up schedule, and it shows in movement (or lack of), and shots going in the basket.?? It is a testament to the team that they manage to stay in games where they are shooting like crap and the other team is making everything, which happened a few times recently.

And Perk, ooh that behind the back pass he made was seamless - that is some offense!? He was so solid, and more than deserving of the all-star ballot.?? Rondo had a couple of his patented change-direction layups that left Deron Williams standing there looking stupid - I never get tired of seeing that move.

Shelden Williams now looks like he has magnets on his hands, with some fierce rebounding. Now there's the landlord we used to know. He is money from the line, and knows how to get there.? He's a great pairing with Wallace, who doesn't have to go anywhere inside (though I thought I saw him make a layup last night, but I might have been dreaming).? This was such a great pickup for the Cs.

Bill Walker sighting!? Too brief to tell anything.? Giddens just doesn't know how to play team ball yet.? I would have liked to see Hudson earlier in the 4th against Eric Maynor, like I wished that against the PG who came off the bench for Utah.? C'mon Doc!

Still too many O rebounds for the other team...

Look forward to seeing the Hawks. Perk now more mobile against Horford.

Ellie



--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net> wrote:

From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
Subject: Tonight's game
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:19 AM

Any questions?

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From joshr at shaw.ca  Fri Nov 13 00:33:54 2009
From: joshr at shaw.ca (Josh Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:33:54 -0800
Subject: Passes-per-possession
In-Reply-To: <mailman.145.1258029456.2156.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <7vpj0h$5ls8t2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>

This is a stat I have never seen anywhere. I think it would be interesting
to compare this to winning %. Does anyone know if there's a source for this?

I watched the Suns last night and it got me thinking. Steve Nash is quite a
player, they really share the ball. How do we compare?

Joshr



From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 02:33:54 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:33:54 -0500
Subject: Passes-per-possession
In-Reply-To: <7vpj0h$5ls8t2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
References: <mailman.145.1258029456.2156.celtics@igtc.com>
	<7vpj0h$5ls8t2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <0KT100LB30HFWPD6@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>

At 07:33 PM 11/12/2009, Josh Rice wrote:
>This is a stat I have never seen anywhere. I think it would be interesting
>to compare this to winning %. Does anyone know if there's a source for this?
>
>I watched the Suns last night and it got me thinking. Steve Nash is quite a
>player, they really share the ball. How do we compare?

Well 82games.com clearly has the data, because they run a leaguewide 
analysis on their site about touches per possession, which is 
effectively the same as what you're looking for. They compare it to 
points scored vs W-L, which in truth is more legit, because they're 
both strictly offensive stats. W-L can have too many other factors 
for a straigh correlation. You can pass like hell and so score 
yourself, but if you can't stop anyone you're going to lose. That was 
Phoenix and Nash a few years ago, especially. While passing isn't as 
straightforward a positive thing as you're assuming - a lot of bad 
teams or (and the Cs have had this problem with 2nd units in the 
past) bad units will have a lot of passing, not because it's planned 
to set up the shot but because no one is willing to take the shot. 
But they don't show it on their site per team that I can find, so it 
may be part of their per pay service. Although there's contact info 
on the site if you wanted to try asking them.

The stat you will find all over that is in the same neighborhood as 
what you're thinking is assists per game, where we lead the league 
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/assists-per-game  with Phoenix 
2nd or, perhaps closer to what you're after, assists per FGM. We lead 
the league there too,
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/assists-per-fgm  with Phoenix 3rd.

It really is the assist that's a lot more telling than the pass per 
se, because that's effective passing vs things like the above bad 
team scared to shoot passing. And where there are a lot of assists, 
there generally is a reasonable amount of ball movement in general, 
because if it was all one pass and shoot it would be too easy to 
defend and you might pass but you wouldn't get the hoop to create the 
assist out of the pass.

We've got the most wins and the most assists per game looked at 
either way, which is as close as I'll get to what you're asking. 
Phoenix is 2nd with the same number of wins.

Sorry you asked <g>?

Kim
Who just discovered the there's a basketball equivalent to SABR. I 
think I'm in love 


From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Nov 13 17:47:04 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
Message-ID: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>

??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA 
??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of America,?
??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their own 
??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.

PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.

LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?

GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?

GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't figure 
out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?

MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?
wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
have a job?

MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out of pride?
they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are at 
draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?

All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles that 
never panned out.

One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal 
Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which 
will likely be the case again this year..
So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.

If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in politics.) ?

Ego, ego.

Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here 
obviously wants to here.


Egg



?

From Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com  Fri Nov 13 17:57:07 2009
From: Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com (Belanger, Roger)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:57:07 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9BE665184612EC41BBCAE7902C7422EFBFBB8B2309@INVSFOXXCHMBX01.corp.com>

Great observations Egg.
Might have missed one though, today the hornets firing of B. Scott after the GM ripping his team to shreds. Not fair to him, I think he was a decent coach, with a good record.

roger

Roger S. Belanger
Phone: 1-508-549-2796
Fax: 1-508-549-2263
Invensys IT Global Service Desk
US Toll Free Number: +1-866-873-7435
UK Number: +44-289-095-4803
International Number: +1-508-549-3444

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:47 PM
To: Celtics at IGTC.com
Subject: Foolish GMs

??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA 
??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of America,?
??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their own 
??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.

PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.

LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?

GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?

GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't figure 
out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?

MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?
wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
have a job?

MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out of pride?
they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are at 
draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?

All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles that 
never panned out.

One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal 
Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which 
will likely be the case again this year..
So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.

If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in politics.) ?

Ego, ego.

Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here 
obviously wants to here.


Egg



?
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please go to http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).



From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 18:08:14 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:08:14 +0000
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <9BE665184612EC41BBCAE7902C7422EFBFBB8B2309@INVSFOXXCHMBX01.corp.com>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com><9BE665184612EC41BBCAE7902C7422EFBFBB8B2309@INVSFOXXCHMBX01.corp.com>
Message-ID: <443885842-1258135696-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-424431523-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I have always thought nepotism is rampant in sports. how do guys like elgin baylor and chris Wallace keep jobs? Are owners really that  ignorant?    The gasol trade was the perfect example .
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Belanger, Roger" <Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:57:07 
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: RE: Foolish GMs

Great observations Egg.
Might have missed one though, today the hornets firing of B. Scott after the GM ripping his team to shreds. Not fair to him, I think he was a decent coach, with a good record.

roger

Roger S. Belanger
Phone: 1-508-549-2796
Fax: 1-508-549-2263
Invensys IT Global Service Desk
US Toll Free Number: +1-866-873-7435
UK Number: +44-289-095-4803
International Number: +1-508-549-3444

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:47 PM
To: Celtics at IGTC.com
Subject: Foolish GMs

??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA 
??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of America,?
??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their own 
??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.

PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.

LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?

GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?

GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't figure 
out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?

MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?
wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
have a job?

MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out of pride?
they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are at 
draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?

All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles that 
never panned out.

One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal 
Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which 
will likely be the case again this year..
So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.

If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in politics.) ?

Ego, ego.

Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here 
obviously wants to here.


Egg



?
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please go to http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From douglas342 at aol.com  Fri Nov 13 18:22:02 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:22:02 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <443885842-1258135696-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-424431523-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com><9BE665184612EC41BBCAE7902C7422EFBFBB8B2309@INVSFOXXCHMBX01.corp.com>
	<443885842-1258135696-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-424431523-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <8CC32A5546BAFB0-1F54-2A40@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com>

Elgin Baylor kept his job (he has now been fired) because Donald 
Sterling needed someone to run his team at his command, which Elgin was 
happy to do.  If Elgin made a good pick, Sterling would refuse to 
re-sign him if he wanted money after the first contract ran out.  Or 
he'd be Danny Manning and get hurt.  For years, the only good player 
the Clippers ever kept was Loy Vaught, who was a very decent power 
forward before getting hurt, when they traded him to Detroit (?), where 
he played briefly before retiring.  I don't know what Sterling paid for 
the Clippers, but they're worth probably 100 times that now.  THAT's 
Donald Sterling's game plan.







As for Ainge, yeah, he could get canned, but are there really owners 
who expect winners all the time?  Danny Ainge delivered a championship 
and has delivered championship-caliber teams for three years now.  I 
suspect that next year the Cs will still be an elite team, although 
maybe not title contenders.  He's done what he was hired to do.  At 
what point can an owner reasonably say, "What have you done for me 
lately?"  A title, a reasonable shot this year, a fine point guard 
locked in for a few years, a very good center locked in for a few 
years, some fine trade bait out there in Allen's contract this year, 
and a basketball culture in Boston that thinks winnning is not only 
feasible, but to be expected.  That's a pretty decent track record.











-----Original Message-----



From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>



To: Celtics <celtics at igtc.com>



Sent: Fri, Nov 13, 2009 10:08 am



Subject: Re: Foolish GMs















I have always thought nepotism is rampant in sports. how do guys like 
elgin



baylor and chris Wallace keep jobs? Are owners really that  ignorant?   
 The



gasol trade was the perfect example .



Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry







-----Original Message-----



From: "Belanger, Roger" <Roger.Belanger at ips.invensys.com>



Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:57:07



To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List<celtics at igtc.com>



Subject: RE: Foolish GMs







Great observations Egg.



Might have missed one though, today the hornets firing of B. Scott 
after the GM



ripping his team to shreds. Not fair to him, I think he was a decent 
coach, with



a good record.







roger







Roger S. Belanger



Phone: 1-508-549-2796



Fax: 1-508-549-2263



Invensys IT Global Service Desk



US Toll Free Number: +1-866-873-7435



UK Number: +44-289-095-4803



International Number: +1-508-549-3444







-----Original Message-----



 From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf Of



eggcentric



Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:47 PM



To: Celtics at IGTC.com



Subject: Foolish GMs







??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA



??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of 
America,?



??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their 
own



??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.







PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of 
play



doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.







LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of 
play



doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?







GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude



would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?







GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something



in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't 
figure



out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night 
to night,



creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?







MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly



signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?



wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace 
even



have a job?







MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then



signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out 
of pride?



they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are 
at



draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?







All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA 
signings,



poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles 
that



never panned out.







One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal



Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and



now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his



owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which



will likely be the case again this year..



So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.







If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired 
legs, Danny



might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial 
enterprises



have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has



spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a



chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in 
politics.) ?







Ego, ego.







Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag



keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here



obviously wants to here.











Egg















?



_______________________________________________



The Boston Celtics Mailing List



celtics at igtc.com



http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics











*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or 
attached



files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed.



This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If 
you have



received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify 
the sender



immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your 
system.



Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to



any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned



by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales 
with its



registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF



(Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities 
within the



Invensys Group, please go to 
http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. 




You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail



inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto 
may be



subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its 
subsidiaries



and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates).











_______________________________________________



The Boston Celtics Mailing List



celtics at igtc.com



http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



_______________________________________________



The Boston Celtics Mailing List



celtics at igtc.com



http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
























From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 13 19:11:32 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Egg ...
Message-ID: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

didn't the Wally/Delonte/Green for Ray/Baby trade work out pretty well too? I seem to recall both those guys playing a pretty big role for us over the past couple years. 


      


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 13 19:24:01 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:24:01 -0400
Subject: Egg ...
In-Reply-To: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W1772B7B1922624E5FCD311D9A80@phx.gbl>


Or have we forgotten, already, about the draft trades which brought us Rondo and Leon??  I remember being one of a very small minority who was happy with acquiring Rondo.  And everyone bemoaned Leon's injury history, which seemed justified.  But I can't see how anyone can slight Danny for getting Rondo.

 

Cecil

 


 
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:32 -0800
> From: pdelevett at yahoo.com
> Subject: Egg ...
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> didn't the Wally/Delonte/Green for Ray/Baby trade work out pretty well too? I seem to recall both those guys playing a pretty big role for us over the past couple years. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 20:07:46 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:07:46 +0000
Subject: Egg ...
Message-ID: <1404059760-1258142865-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-213696417-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I was trying to remember who we got rondo from?
------Original Message------
From: Cecil Wright
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: RE: Egg ...
Sent: Nov 13, 2009 11:24 AM


Or have we forgotten, already, about the draft trades which brought us Rondo and Leon??  I remember being one of a very small minority who was happy with acquiring Rondo.  And everyone bemoaned Leon's injury history, which seemed justified.  But I can't see how anyone can slight Danny for getting Rondo.

 

Cecil

 


 
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:32 -0800
> From: pdelevett at yahoo.com
> Subject: Egg ...
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> didn't the Wally/Delonte/Green for Ray/Baby trade work out pretty well too? I seem to recall both those guys playing a pretty big role for us over the past couple years. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 20:14:29 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:14:29 +0000
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
Message-ID: <279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

egg makes a good point we better have a retooling plan for replacing the big 3 or it could he another 20 years. Hopefully owners will pay like the sox and we make the right decisions 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04 
To: <Celtics at IGTC.com>
Subject: Foolish GMs

??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA 
??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of America,?
??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their own 
??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.

PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.

LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of play 
doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?

GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?

GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't figure 
out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?

MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?
wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
have a job?

MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out of pride?
they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are at 
draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?

All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles that 
never panned out.

One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal 
Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which 
will likely be the case again this year..
So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.

If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in politics.) ?

Ego, ego.

Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here 
obviously wants to here.


Egg



?
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 13 20:16:30 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:16:30 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>,
	<279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W50A97A40653F6F79C108A3A5A80@phx.gbl>


There is no indication from Ainge or the owners that they will not do what it takes to keep this team in contention for years to come, even long after the big three are gone.
 
> Subject: Re: Foolish GMs
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> From: jlyell at verizon.net
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:14:29 +0000
> 
> egg makes a good point we better have a retooling plan for replacing the big 3 or it could he another 20 years. Hopefully owners will pay like the sox and we make the right decisions 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04 
> To: <Celtics at IGTC.com>
> Subject: Foolish GMs
> 
>   Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept.  Many NBA 
>   teams have become shades of AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM,  Bank of America, 
>   etc, and will soon be begging for government bailouts due to their own 
>   ineptness and impending bankruptcy.
> 
> PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
> doesn't fit in with his coach's style of play.
> 
> LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
> doesn't fit in with his coach's style of play.  
> 
> GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
> would/is killing the team team and its chemistry?
> 
> GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
> in both his coaching of and non-rapport with his players.  He can't figure 
> out which talented players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
> creating a confused mess of malcontents.  
> 
> MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
> signs cancers/mentors  Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he 
> wouldn't be a starter).  Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
> have a job?
> 
> MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
> signed the upcoming Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract.  Yet out of pride 
> they are  bringing Sessions off the bench to prove how astute they are at 
> draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn, 
> 
> All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
> poor trades over the years (except for Garnett), and  draftee gambles that 
> never panned out.
> 
> One big trade winner ... Garnett  --- executed through Danny's good pal 
> Kevin (who was eventually fired after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
> now Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
> owners a fortune with bad deals  and his team is one and done which 
> will likely be the case again this year..
> So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.
> 
> If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
> might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
> have not gone well), and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
> spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
> chance in hell of being elected due to his zilch experience in politics.)  
> 
> Ego, ego.
> 
> Our team is doing  well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
> keep making lots of $$$$$  despite my sorry attitude which no one here 
> obviously wants to here.
> 
> 
> Egg
> 
> 
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 20:20:29 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:20:29 -0500
Subject: Egg ...
Message-ID: <0KT2005CKDU88YHE@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>

Phoenix. And wouldn't they have loved to have him to train as Nash's 
successor (which is why I can always remember it <g>), although it's 
an open question how well he would have developed elsewhere, in a 
different situation and under a different coach, particularly as an 
unquestioned backup.
Kim

At 03:07 PM 11/13/2009, John Lyell wrote:
>I was trying to remember who we got rondo from?
>------Original Message------
>From: Cecil Wright
>Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
>To: Celtics
>ReplyTo: Celtics
>Subject: RE: Egg ...
>Sent: Nov 13, 2009 11:24 AM
>
>
>Or have we forgotten, already, about the draft trades which brought 
>us Rondo and Leon??  I remember being one of a very small minority 
>who was happy with acquiring Rondo.  And everyone bemoaned Leon's 
>injury history, which seemed justified.  But I can't see how anyone 
>can slight Danny for getting Rondo.


From jeffclark at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 20:43:28 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:43:28 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W50A97A40653F6F79C108A3A5A80@phx.gbl>
References: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
	<279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<BAY111-W50A97A40653F6F79C108A3A5A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <84e131670911131243w2b455eb4mbf543ff6c295f9b5@mail.gmail.com>

booooooooooooring

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> There is no indication from Ainge or the owners that they will not do what
> it takes to keep this team in contention for years to come, even long after
> the big three are gone.
>
> > Subject: Re: Foolish GMs
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > From: jlyell at verizon.net
> > Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:14:29 +0000
> >
> > egg makes a good point we better have a retooling plan for replacing the
> big 3 or it could he another 20 years. Hopefully owners will pay like the
> sox and we make the right decisions
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> > Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04
> > To: <Celtics at IGTC.com>
> > Subject: Foolish GMs
> >
> >   Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept.  Many NBA
> >   teams have become shades of AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM,  Bank of
> America,
> >   etc, and will soon be begging for government bailouts due to their own
> >   ineptness and impending bankruptcy.
> >
> > PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of
> play
> > doesn't fit in with his coach's style of play.
> >
> > LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks knowing full well his style of play
> > doesn't fit in with his coach's style of play.
> >
> > GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude
> > would/is killing the team team and its chemistry?
> >
> > GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
> > in both his coaching of and non-rapport with his players.  He can't
> figure
> > out which talented players to consistently give minutes to from night to
> night,
> > creating a confused mess of malcontents.
> >
> > MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
> > signs cancers/mentors  Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he
> > wouldn't be a starter).  Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
> > have a job?
> >
> > MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
> > signed the upcoming Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract.  Yet out of
> pride
> > they are  bringing Sessions off the bench to prove how astute they are at
> > draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,
> >
> > All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA
> signings,
> > poor trades over the years (except for Garnett), and  draftee gambles
> that
> > never panned out.
> >
> > One big trade winner ... Garnett  --- executed through Danny's good pal
> > Kevin (who was eventually fired after his "insider best pal" deal), and
> > now Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
> > owners a fortune with bad deals  and his team is one and done which
> > will likely be the case again this year..
> > So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.
> >
> > If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs,
> Danny
> > might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises
> > have not gone well), and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
> > spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a
> > chance in hell of being elected due to his zilch experience in politics.)
> >
> > Ego, ego.
> >
> > Our team is doing  well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
> > keep making lots of $$$$$  despite my sorry attitude which no one here
> > obviously wants to here.
> >
> >
> > Egg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Fri Nov 13 21:03:02 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:03:02 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20091113160302.TPC7D.417703.imail@eastrmwml48>

Ainge has a plan already in place and It's called expriing contracts in successive years.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> egg makes a good point we better have a retooling plan for replacing the big 3 or it could he another 20 years. Hopefully owners will pay like the sox and we make the right decisions 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04 
> To: <Celtics at IGTC.com>
> Subject: Foolish GMs
> 
> ??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so inept. ?Many NBA 
> ??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler, GM, ?Bank of America,?
> ??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts due to their own 
> ??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.
> 
> PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well his style of play 
> doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.
> 
> LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his style of play 
> doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?
> 
> GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude 
> would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?
> 
> GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or something
> in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players. ?He can't figure 
> out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to from night to night,
> creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?
> 
> MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding, surprisingly
> signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they never told he?
> wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer Chris Wallace even
> have a job?
> 
> MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at #6, They then
> signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill contract. ?Yet out of pride?
> they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how astute they are at 
> draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?
> 
> All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many poor FA signings,
> poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and ?draftee?gambles that 
> never panned out.
> 
> One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through Danny's good pal 
> Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best pal" deal), and 
> now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that he's cost his
> owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and done which 
> will likely be the case again this year..
> So hard to repeat a championship year even every other year.
> 
> If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for old tired legs, Danny 
> might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside financial enterprises 
> have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone (he who has
> spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has less than a 
> chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch experience in politics.) ?
> 
> Ego, ego.
> 
> Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and that Wyc and Pag
> keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude which no one here 
> obviously wants to here.
> 
> 
> Egg
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Nov 13 21:15:00 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:15:00 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <AB36D531.60FA.4526.8C28.F1BBE594F898@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FF3C6C36.0818.43E2.95D2.6F097678B36F@aol.com>


On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:47:04 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

despite my?sorry attitude which no one here?
obviously wants to here.
Sprry guys -- meant to write ?"wanta to hear," ??

From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Nov 13 21:21:33 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:21:33 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <84e131670911131243w2b455eb4mbf543ff6c295f9b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC2BAFA6.E5A0.4A6A.BF20.95DA7B5A06AF@aol.com>


On Nov 13, 2009, at 3:43:28 PM, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:

booooooooooooring
What does?booooooooooooring mean? ?

Dramatic, yes. But?still just wondering.

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 13 23:07:04 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:07:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bad GMS
Message-ID: <708686.95585.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nice to here from you, Egg.

I think that the discussion of other GMs got lost because of the inclusion of Ainge.? The crippling signings of Brand et al are clear, sometimes, only in hindsight.? Or, teams cover up the disagreement within the organization about players, style, & coaching being in conflict.? I think the worst example was the drafting of Flynn and the European whiz Rubio.? Why?? Why?? I was convinced that Flynn was the real deal; why weren't they?? If Rubio is, too, then make a choice and trade the other pick.? Sessions, I don't know him.? But go ahead and trade someone soon and build a team already.? I like Minnie because of Big Al, so I would like to see them succeed, but having the #5 and #6 picks comes along too rarely.? Remember our season with three first round picks and how we only got Joe Johnson out of that?? Well, it's high stakes poker and only a few can win.? I think we are still in a commanding position with a top PG and Center, not to mention
 two very capable PFs (with Williams and Davis), plus Daniels--all young but with experience.? Add Durant in two years and voila.? Cheers, Gene



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 13 23:12:20 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <279876745-1258143269-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-661023300-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <272750.25828.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I've heard this repeated everywhere like it's gospel.  It's not.  The thing that caused the 20 year drought was bad luck, bad GM-ing, and bad ownership.  We have a pretty good handle on two of those three variables right now and as long as we do I like our chances.  A good GM can keep a winner winning with tinkering here and there, good drafting, and deep ownership pockets--we'll be fine as long as Danny's making the decisions and Wyc et all are cutting the checks.

Ryan

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Foolish GMs
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:14 PM
> egg makes a good point we better have
> a retooling plan for replacing the big 3 or it could he
> another 20 years. Hopefully owners will pay like the sox and
> we make the right decisions 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:47:04 
> To: <Celtics at IGTC.com>
> Subject: Foolish GMs
> 
> ??Amazing how so many highly-paid NBA execs can be so
> inept. ?Many NBA 
> ??teams have?become shades of?AIG, Citigroup, Chrysler,
> GM, ?Bank of America,?
> ??etc, and will soon be begging?for government bailouts
> due to their own 
> ??ineptness and impending?bankruptcy.
> 
> PHILLY signed ELTON BRAND for big bucks knowing full well
> his style of play 
> doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play.
> 
> LAC signed BARON DAVIS for big bucks?knowing full well his
> style of play 
> doesn't fit in?with his coach's style of play. ?
> 
> GS didn't trade STEPHEN JACKSON pre-season knowing his tude
> 
> would/is killing?the team team and its chemistry?
> 
> GS didn't fire DON NELSON knowing he's gone senile or
> something
> in both his?coaching of and non-rapport with his players.
> ?He can't figure 
> out which talented?players to consistently give minutes to
> from night to night,
> creating a?confused mess of malcontents. ?
> 
> MEMPHIS, who was presumably supposed to be rebuilding,
> surprisingly
> signs?cancers/mentors ?Randolph and Iverson (who they
> never told he?
> wouldn't be a starter). ?Why the heck does team-killer
> Chris Wallace even
> have a job?
> 
> MINN foolishly drafted two PG's - Rubio at #5 and Flynn at
> #6, They then
> signed the upcoming?Sessions to a 4-year, $16 mill
> contract. ?Yet out of pride?
> they are ?bringing Sessions off?the bench to prove how
> astute they are at 
> draft picks.,, i.e. rookie Flynn,?
> 
> All these jerkolas make Ainge look good despite his many
> poor FA signings,
> poor?trades over the years (except for Garnett), and
> ?draftee?gambles that 
> never panned out.
> 
> One big trade winner ... Garnett ?--- executed through
> Danny's good pal 
> Kevin (who was eventually?fired?after his "insider best
> pal" deal), and 
> now?Danny's considered a genius even if it turns out that
> he's cost his
> owners a fortune with bad deals ?and his team is?one and
> done which 
> will likely be the case again this year..
> So hard to repeat a championship year even every other
> year.
> 
> If we don't win it all this year with our big salary for
> old tired legs, Danny 
> might be gone for causing owners Wyc (whose outside
> financial enterprises 
> have not gone well),?and co-owner Pag might also be gone
> (he who has
> spent millions on his ego-driven Senate campaign but has
> less than a 
> chance in hell of?being elected due to?his zilch
> experience in politics.) ?
> 
> Ego, ego.
> 
> Our team is doing ?well ... let's hope it continues and
> that Wyc and Pag
> keep making lots of $$$$$ ?despite my?sorry attitude
> which no one here 
> obviously wants to here.
> 
> 
> Egg
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 13 23:13:52 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:13:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <FF3C6C36.0818.43E2.95D2.6F097678B36F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161942.19611.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

We'll let that one go this time Egg, but don't let it happen again.

Ryan

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Foolish GMs
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 3:15 PM
> 
> On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:47:04 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> despite my?sorry attitude which no one here?
> obviously wants to here.
> Sprry guys -- meant to write ?"wanta to hear," ??
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From eggcentric at aol.com  Sat Nov 14 00:05:56 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:05:56 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <161942.19611.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E038FD2.0231.431D.ACE4.09BE6A76BA5F@aol.com>


On Nov 13, 2009, at 6:13:52 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

We'll let that one go this time Egg, but don't let it happen again.

Ryan
---------------------------

Thanks, Ubie. ?My computer has obviously suffered a nervous breakdown likely 
due to?the Celts being 8-1 instead of 1-8. ? How else to account for when ?I press O that
a P appears and my spell check kwittts? ?(DavidP to the rescue?)

Or, ?oh no, maybe it's me. ? Damn, ?I ?guess age and treachery can't overcome youthand talent after all.

The Eggster

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sat Nov 14 03:42:06 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:42:06 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <4E038FD2.0231.431D.ACE4.09BE6A76BA5F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091113224206.TXHBF.730766.imail@eastrmwml45>

Don't start  a war with me Egg that you won't win.
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> 
> On Nov 13, 2009, at 6:13:52 PM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> We'll let that one go this time Egg, but don't let it happen again.
> 
> Ryan
> ---------------------------
> 
> Thanks, Ubie. ?My computer has obviously suffered a nervous breakdown likely 
> due to?the Celts being 8-1 instead of 1-8. ? How else to account for when ?I press O that
> a P appears and my spell check kwittts? ?(DavidP to the rescue?)
> 
> Or, ?oh no, maybe it's me. ? Damn, ?I ?guess age and treachery can't overcome youthand talent after all.
> 
> The Eggster
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Sat Nov 14 03:45:57 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:45:57 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <FF3C6C36.0818.43E2.95D2.6F097678B36F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091113224557.MVZ93.730788.imail@eastrmwml45>

And you also meant sorry guys, not sprry guys.  You should have left me alone earlier.  Just here to assist you in your spell check.
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> 
> On Nov 13, 2009, at 12:47:04 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> despite my?sorry attitude which no one here?
> obviously wants to here.
> Sprry guys -- meant to write ?"wanta to hear," ??
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 12:59:19 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:59:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Boards
Message-ID: <165282.15400.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.? Especially the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's a lot of putbacks.

Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount of boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in the league.

Doesn't bode well.


      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Sat Nov 14 14:47:16 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:47:16 -0500
Subject: Boards
In-Reply-To: <165282.15400.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A7784313.73E0.47FA.89B0.5C295E9513A6@aol.com>

Good morning, Asterix.

Yup, four games in a row now where we have been outrebounded. Certainly Garnett
(who has lost some hops) and Wallace (who seldom ventures inside due to his
role to spread the court and concentrate on threes) have lots to do with it. ?As has Perk
whose rebounds per game and foot speed are down.

Our starters continue to have problems with younger, fast break athletic
teams. ?And talk about "Where's Waldo" ... where was Rondo last night?
Trick or treat?

It appears that there is a growing clubhouse divide between our vets and 
young guys Rondo, Perk, Big Baby, etc. ?If any coach can handle this
situation it is Rivers whose chief asset has been his ability to read ?
one book ... "How to Win Friends & Influence People."

A few more wins and all will be forgotten.




On Nov 14, 2009, at 7:59:19 AM, "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From:   "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
Subject:    Boards
Date:   November 14, 2009 7:59:19 AM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com
We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.? Especially the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's a lot of putbacks.

Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount of boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in the league.

Doesn't bode well.



_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Sat Nov 14 14:56:28 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:56:28 -0500
Subject: Foolish GMs
Message-ID: <3F958EB4.FCB8.4DF9.819C.54BCBB1DB06E@aol.com>

On Nov 13, 2009, at 10:42:06 PM, davidp4660 at cox.net wrote:

Don't start a war with me Egg that you won't win.
---------------

What mighty contests rise from trivial things.

From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Nov 14 16:07:25 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:07:25 +0000
Subject: Boards
Message-ID: <2143951720-1258214845-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2022355594-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

 the quick teams are giving us problems maybe we need to use giddens.  & walker more in these games.  The hawks do have a lot of good young players  but our  rebounding and lack of getting to the line has to be a concern
------Original Message------
From: eggcentric
Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
To: Celtics
ReplyTo: Celtics
Subject: Re: Boards
Sent: Nov 14, 2009 6:47 AM

Good morning, Asterix.

Yup, four games in a row now where we have been outrebounded. Certainly Garnett
(who has lost some hops) and Wallace (who seldom ventures inside due to his
role to spread the court and concentrate on threes) have lots to do with it. ?As has Perk
whose rebounds per game and foot speed are down.

Our starters continue to have problems with younger, fast break athletic
teams. ?And talk about "Where's Waldo" ... where was Rondo last night?
Trick or treat?

It appears that there is a growing clubhouse divide between our vets and 
young guys Rondo, Perk, Big Baby, etc. ?If any coach can handle this
situation it is Rivers whose chief asset has been his ability to read ?
one book ... "How to Win Friends & Influence People."

A few more wins and all will be forgotten.




On Nov 14, 2009, at 7:59:19 AM, "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From:   "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
Subject:    Boards
Date:   November 14, 2009 7:59:19 AM EST
To: celtics at igtc.com
We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.? Especially the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's a lot of putbacks.

Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount of boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in the league.

Doesn't bode well.



_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 19:01:23 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:01:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Boards
In-Reply-To: <2143951720-1258214845-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2022355594-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <781206.56120.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Giddens is not the answer.  He still has no clue what he's doing out there. Walker might be a part of the solution, after another couple weeks of practice.  Hudson, actually, is the most ready to contribute, if only Doc wasn't completely set against playing rookies, he might have been able to help already.  House continues to be a huge inconvenience to almost everything we want to do, and his one skill is actually over-abundant on this team.  

It's not even about athleticism, it's about defending on the perimeter.  We have guys with ability who are playing right now, guys like Rondo, Pierce, Daniels, who weren't that good last night.  We let the Hawks outmuscle us, manhandle us, and out work us.  That shouldn't happen, but it did.

But even after getting out-rebounded by an obnoxious amount, after giving up 20 2nd chance points, after shooting an obscene 1 for 15 from deep, we still had a chance to win it in the 4th, only to see us commit 5 silly turnovers to begin the 4th.  To me, the chemistry of the starting unit is at an all-time low and Doc continues to miss the obvious fixer--putting the ball in Rondo's hands full time and setting him pick after pick until we get the kind of ball and body movement necessary to play good offense.  

Ryan

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Boards
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:07 AM
>  the quick teams are giving us
> problems maybe we need to use giddens.? & walker
> more in these games.? The hawks do have a lot of good
> young players? but our? rebounding and lack of
> getting to the line has to be a concern
> ------Original Message------
> From: eggcentric
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Boards
> Sent: Nov 14, 2009 6:47 AM
> 
> Good morning, Asterix.
> 
> Yup, four games in a row now where we have been
> outrebounded. Certainly Garnett
> (who has lost some hops) and Wallace (who seldom ventures
> inside due to his
> role to spread the court and concentrate on threes) have
> lots to do with it. ?As has Perk
> whose rebounds per game and foot speed are down.
> 
> Our starters continue to have problems with younger, fast
> break athletic
> teams. ?And talk about "Where's Waldo" ... where was Rondo
> last night?
> Trick or treat?
> 
> It appears that there is a growing clubhouse divide between
> our vets and 
> young guys Rondo, Perk, Big Baby, etc. ?If any coach can
> handle this
> situation it is Rivers whose chief asset has been his
> ability to read ?
> one book ... "How to Win Friends & Influence People."
> 
> A few more wins and all will be forgotten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 14, 2009, at 7:59:19 AM, "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From:???"asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject:? ? Boards
> Date:???November 14, 2009 7:59:19 AM EST
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.? Especially
> the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's a lot
> of putbacks.
> 
> Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount of
> boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in the
> league.
> 
> Doesn't bode well.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 19:03:45 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:03:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Foolish GMs
In-Reply-To: <4E038FD2.0231.431D.ACE4.09BE6A76BA5F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <102083.73947.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Feels like there's a joke here that I'm too dumb to get...

Ryan

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> How else to
> account for when ?I press O that
> a P appears and my spell check kwittts? ?


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Nov 14 21:17:30 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:17:30 +0000
Subject: Boards
In-Reply-To: <781206.56120.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <2143951720-1258214845-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2022355594-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><781206.56120.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <496026205-1258233457-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1200691703-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I haven't seen much from giddens or walker but you have to give them some court time to see. Some highly paid braintrust said the same with chauncy billups and  Joe Johnson and Red went Joe forte over tony Parker. I do like hudsons shooting form.  If they aren't find someone that is
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:01:23 
To: Celtics<celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Boards

Giddens is not the answer.  He still has no clue what he's doing out there. Walker might be a part of the solution, after another couple weeks of practice.  Hudson, actually, is the most ready to contribute, if only Doc wasn't completely set against playing rookies, he might have been able to help already.  House continues to be a huge inconvenience to almost everything we want to do, and his one skill is actually over-abundant on this team.  

It's not even about athleticism, it's about defending on the perimeter.  We have guys with ability who are playing right now, guys like Rondo, Pierce, Daniels, who weren't that good last night.  We let the Hawks outmuscle us, manhandle us, and out work us.  That shouldn't happen, but it did.

But even after getting out-rebounded by an obnoxious amount, after giving up 20 2nd chance points, after shooting an obscene 1 for 15 from deep, we still had a chance to win it in the 4th, only to see us commit 5 silly turnovers to begin the 4th.  To me, the chemistry of the starting unit is at an all-time low and Doc continues to miss the obvious fixer--putting the ball in Rondo's hands full time and setting him pick after pick until we get the kind of ball and body movement necessary to play good offense.  

Ryan

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Boards
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:07 AM
>  the quick teams are giving us
> problems maybe we need to use giddens.? & walker
> more in these games.? The hawks do have a lot of good
> young players? but our? rebounding and lack of
> getting to the line has to be a concern
> ------Original Message------
> From: eggcentric
> Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> To: Celtics
> ReplyTo: Celtics
> Subject: Re: Boards
> Sent: Nov 14, 2009 6:47 AM
> 
> Good morning, Asterix.
> 
> Yup, four games in a row now where we have been
> outrebounded. Certainly Garnett
> (who has lost some hops) and Wallace (who seldom ventures
> inside due to his
> role to spread the court and concentrate on threes) have
> lots to do with it. ?As has Perk
> whose rebounds per game and foot speed are down.
> 
> Our starters continue to have problems with younger, fast
> break athletic
> teams. ?And talk about "Where's Waldo" ... where was Rondo
> last night?
> Trick or treat?
> 
> It appears that there is a growing clubhouse divide between
> our vets and 
> young guys Rondo, Perk, Big Baby, etc. ?If any coach can
> handle this
> situation it is Rivers whose chief asset has been his
> ability to read ?
> one book ... "How to Win Friends & Influence People."
> 
> A few more wins and all will be forgotten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 14, 2009, at 7:59:19 AM, "asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From:???"asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject:? ? Boards
> Date:???November 14, 2009 7:59:19 AM EST
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.? Especially
> the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's a lot
> of putbacks.
> 
> Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount of
> boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in the
> league.
> 
> Doesn't bode well.
> 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>_______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 21:44:41 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:44:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
Message-ID: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Unless Ainge shores up the weaknesses...

Oh, I don't care that they lost a game to Atlanta or the other contest to Phoenix.

Individual games don't really matter in properly evaluating a team.

What really is important are season long trends that highlight 
championship-mitigating factors.

The problems that will prevent the Celtics from getting by Orlando and
challenging the Lakers.

Succinctly put:

- There have been too many games this season where the club has appeared tired and un-agressive. 

- Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off the boards.

- Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed from the starting lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's exceedingly valuable contract was set to expire, Red would deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc operates with a similar championship-winning philosophy, remains to be seen. 

- The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs an infusion of athleticism. People will suggest Marquis Daniels replace Allen, but he's injury prone and a bad compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench. 
 
- Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so there's no one on the Celtics roster who can cover tall perimeter shooters.

- The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low post presence and in dire need of someone whom can create free throw opportunities. 

- Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre. He is no longer
a dominant player, although he has an impact in some areas.

- Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't shoot free throws, etc. etc.

- The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just doesn't seem to
click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not shooting
well. 

So, what should Ainge do?

Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and draft choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
     
Ray


      


From guiseppemiguel at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 22:02:33 2009
From: guiseppemiguel at gmail.com (Joe Curley)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:02:33 +0000
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1300456336-1258236144-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1736860112-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Easy chicken little

Your perception of the team appearing "tired and un-agressive" isn't a valid argument. Your perception is hardly a concrete fact and I'd rather they conserve energy for spring anyway. 

Your "Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre" is a moronic argument. Players usually take more than a year to fully recover from a knee procedure, never mind one as serious and rare as his. Anyone who expected him to be the same player didn't know what they were thinking about. 

KG wasn't a dominant player when we won the title. As long as he's on the court, he makes a big impact for us as a team with his leadership, defensive prescence and shotmaking. Plus, as the season goes on, his knee should get stronger and his spring should improve. 

This team, as presently constructed, can win the title. It all comes down to staying healthy and staying the course. 

The Lakers didn't win the title last year as much as everyone else (Boozer, Amare, KG, Ginobli, Yao, McGrady) got hurt. Hopefully it evens out this year and Kobe snaps a knee ligament in March. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:44:41 
To: Celtics Are Idiots List<celtics at igtc.com>; Celtics Stuff<celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances

Unless Ainge shores up the weaknesses...

Oh, I don't care that they lost a game to Atlanta or the other contest to Phoenix.

Individual games don't really matter in properly evaluating a team.

What really is important are season long trends that highlight 
championship-mitigating factors.

The problems that will prevent the Celtics from getting by Orlando and
challenging the Lakers.

Succinctly put:

- There have been too many games this season where the club has appeared tired and un-agressive. 

- Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off the boards.

- Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed from the starting lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's exceedingly valuable contract was set to expire, Red would deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc operates with a similar championship-winning philosophy, remains to be seen. 

- The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs an infusion of athleticism. People will suggest Marquis Daniels replace Allen, but he's injury prone and a bad compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench. 
 
- Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so there's no one on the Celtics roster who can cover tall perimeter shooters.

- The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low post presence and in dire need of someone whom can create free throw opportunities. 

- Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre. He is no longer
a dominant player, although he has an impact in some areas.

- Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't shoot free throws, etc. etc.

- The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just doesn't seem to
click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not shooting
well. 

So, what should Ainge do?

Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and draft choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
     
Ray


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 22:27:38 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:27:38 +0100
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000911141427p3ef193e1j21ef3be0525386c0@mail.gmail.com>

tl;dr. Anybody else reached the zen state where Ray's posts don't even
register?

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Unless Ainge shores up the weaknesses...
>
> Oh, I don't care that they lost a game to Atlanta or the other contest to Phoenix.
>
> Individual games don't really matter in properly evaluating a team.
>
> What really is important are season long trends that highlight
> championship-mitigating factors.
>
> The problems that will prevent the Celtics from getting by Orlando and
> challenging the Lakers.
>
> Succinctly put:
>
> - There have been too many games this season where the club has appeared tired and un-agressive.
>
> - Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off the boards.
>
> - Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed from the starting lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's exceedingly valuable contract was set to expire, Red would deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc operates with a similar championship-winning philosophy, remains to be seen.
>
> - The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs an infusion of athleticism. People will suggest Marquis Daniels replace Allen, but he's injury prone and a bad compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
> Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench.
>
> - Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so there's no one on the Celtics roster who can cover tall perimeter shooters.
>
> - The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low post presence and in dire need of someone whom can create free throw opportunities.
>
> - Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre. He is no longer
> a dominant player, although he has an impact in some areas.
>
> - Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't shoot free throws, etc. etc.
>
> - The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just doesn't seem to
> click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not shooting
> well.
>
> So, what should Ainge do?
>
> Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and draft choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Nov 14 22:35:41 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:35:41 -0500
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <56a297000911141427p3ef193e1j21ef3be0525386c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<56a297000911141427p3ef193e1j21ef3be0525386c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC3391EE71E262-890C-19B5C@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>

Who's Ray?

What worries me, even 10 games into the season, is age. if the Cs are 
playing occasional listless games, what's going to happen come playoff 
time when it seemed to me that they played about 12 games in 20 days 
last year?

And Ray Allen will bust out for 35-40 soon - he always does,


-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances



tl;dr. Anybody else reached the zen state where Ray's posts don't even
register?

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Way Of The Ray 
<wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Unless Ainge shores up the weaknesses...
>
> Oh, I don't care that they lost a game to Atlanta or the other 
contest to
Phoenix.
>
> Individual games don't really matter in properly evaluating a team.
>
> What really is important are season long trends that highlight
> championship-mitigating factors.
>
> The problems that will prevent the Celtics from getting by Orlando and
> challenging the Lakers.
>
> Succinctly put:
>
> - There have been too many games this season where the club has 
appeared tired
and un-agressive.
>
> - Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off the boards.
>
> - Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed from the 
starting
lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's exceedingly valuable contract 
was set to
expire, Red would deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc operates with a 
similar
championship-winning philosophy, remains to be seen.
>
> - The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs an 
infusion of
athleticism. People will suggest Marquis Daniels replace Allen, but 
he's injury
prone and a bad compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
> Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench.
>
> - Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so there's no one 
on the
Celtics roster who can cover tall perimeter shooters.
>
> - The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low post presence 
and in
dire need of someone whom can create free throw opportunities.
>
> - Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre. He is no 
longer
> a dominant player, although he has an impact in some areas.
>
> - Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't shoot free 
throws,
etc. etc.
>
> - The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just doesn't seem to
> click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not shooting
> well.
>
> So, what should Ainge do?
>
> Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and 
draft
choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sat Nov 14 22:57:56 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:57:56 -0500
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <8CC3391EE71E262-890C-19B5C@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<56a297000911141427p3ef193e1j21ef3be0525386c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC3391EE71E262-890C-19B5C@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KT400BMHFT1STY4@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:35 PM 11/14/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>What worries me, even 10 games into the season, is age. if the Cs 
>are playing occasional listless games, what's going to happen come 
>playoff time when it seemed to me that they played about 12 games in 
>20 days last year?

Aren't you making the knee jerk and not necessarily correct 
assumption here? One of the players most apt to have listless games 
the past few years  (too soon to see how this year goes) when he 
didn't feel he had to get really up for a given opponent was one of 
our youngest and most energetic players.

Kim 


From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Sat Nov 14 22:58:23 2009
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:58:23 -0500
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FBB3848A29FE4BAF8E19386A63776A7E@D2F52Z11>

Bottom line:
A.1of 15  from 3 point land
B. Outrebounded by 18
C. Offensive outrebounded 16-6
 With those stats you ain't gonna win Jack in any league

Seems that since Rasheed joined the team we have become a 3 point shooting 
team. I hate the 3 point shot except as a dagger. Want the C's to go back to 
the drive to the hoop mentallity and get to the damn  FT line. This new 
offense IMO is unacceptable and unwinnable in the long run.

Hart

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Way Of The Ray" <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>; "Celtics Stuff" 
<celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances


> Unless Ainge shores up the weaknesses...
>
> Oh, I don't care that they lost a game to Atlanta or the other contest to 
> Phoenix.
>
> Individual games don't really matter in properly evaluating a team.
>
> What really is important are season long trends that highlight
> championship-mitigating factors.
>
> The problems that will prevent the Celtics from getting by Orlando and
> challenging the Lakers.
>
> Succinctly put:
>
> - There have been too many games this season where the club has appeared 
> tired and un-agressive.
>
> - Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off the boards.
>
> - Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed from the 
> starting lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's exceedingly valuable 
> contract was set to expire, Red would deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc 
> operates with a similar championship-winning philosophy, remains to be 
> seen.
>
> - The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs an infusion of 
> athleticism. People will suggest Marquis Daniels replace Allen, but he's 
> injury prone and a bad compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
> Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench.
>
> - Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so there's no one on 
> the Celtics roster who can cover tall perimeter shooters.
>
> - The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low post presence and 
> in dire need of someone whom can create free throw opportunities.
>
> - Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre. He is no longer
> a dominant player, although he has an impact in some areas.
>
> - Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't shoot free throws, 
> etc. etc.
>
> - The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just doesn't seem to
> click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not shooting
> well.
>
> So, what should Ainge do?
>
> Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and draft 
> choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 



From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 23:18:59 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:18:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: did i mention no?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.175.1258235097.2156.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.175.1258235097.2156.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <93967.14347.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

uh...no. 

i appreciate your interest in improving the team, got to call you on this, ray. so you want to trade one of the best shooters in the game, one of the best post defenders in the game, and a solid/young/versatile big man, plus pix, for a slow, no-D center, a proven cancer and an unnamed young SG? that's a recipe for disaster, not for winning a championship. 

i think we'll see the team as is get better as the season progresses. when davis, scal and tony get healthy, we'll have the deepest team we've had in this garnett stretch. the one thing we're missing, imho, is a long, active big man, a travis outlaw type. and, of course, a backup pg.

patience. we're playing nowhere near as good as we can.    

---
So, what should Ainge do?

Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins, expirings and draft choices, where the Celtics get back S Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.
    
Ray


      


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 23:32:12 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:32:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ray's insights
Message-ID: <593243.67782.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Our 16-4 run in the second had a team that included Rasheed, Williams, Ray Allen, House and Daniels (I think).? That's not a high energy group.? Williams missed several gimmees, House and Rasheed misfired from deep.? But they were active and the Hawks were a bit tired and it worked for a while.? I'm not worried about a trend here.? The Hawks, Denver, and Phoenix will challenge us with their quickness, but I think our interior defense is the key.? Keep them from getting O rebounds and points in the paint and we'll be ok.? Anyway, it doesn't hurt to see our problems early in the season.? Cheers, Gene



      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Sat Nov 14 23:49:53 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:49:53 -0500
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <0KT400BMHFT1STY4@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56a297000911141427p3ef193e1j21ef3be0525386c0@mail.gmail.com><8CC3391EE71E262-890C-19B5C@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>
	<0KT400BMHFT1STY4@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <8CC339C4BD34EAA-890C-1A3CE@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>

Yeah, probably, but knee-jerking can be therapeutic, especially when 
one makes 27 different prognostications during the season. The good 
part is that one of them will probably be right! But seriously, of 
course - it is far, far too early to be telling the story of this 
season.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances


At 05:35 PM 11/14/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:?
>What worries me, even 10 games into the season, is age. if the Cs >are 
playing occasional listless games, what's going to happen come >playoff 
time when it seemed to me that they played about 12 games in >20 days 
last year??
?
Aren't you making the knee jerk and not necessarily correct assumption 
here? One of the players most apt to have listless games the past few 
years (too soon to see how this year goes) when he didn't feel he had 
to get really up for a given opponent was one of our youngest and most 
energetic players.?
?
Kim ?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 15 03:45:21 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:45:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Boards
In-Reply-To: <496026205-1258233457-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1200691703-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <27779.19401.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Giddens will never get enough court time on this team--he's that bad and that ill-suited to anything but iso-basketball.  If he's on a bad team with a hole at shooting guard, he could develop into a decent 2 guard in a couple years.  We just don't have the development time to find out.  Plus, he runs like his just hit puberty--all arms and legs.  

Walker will need time to get into game shape and practice time to re-earn Doc's trust.  He would have been a nice option tonight against Granger.  

House continues to play terrible and I'd really like to see Doc give us a jolt of energy by inserting Hudson into the lineup.  The way we rely on the 3 ball continues to upset the balance of our offense.

Ryan

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Boards
> To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 3:17 PM
> I haven't seen much from giddens or
> walker but you have to give them some court time to see.
> Some highly paid braintrust said the same with chauncy
> billups and? Joe Johnson and Red went Joe forte over
> tony Parker. I do like hudsons shooting form.? If they
> aren't find someone that is
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:01:23 
> To: Celtics<celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: Re: Boards
> 
> Giddens is not the answer.? He still has no clue what
> he's doing out there. Walker might be a part of the
> solution, after another couple weeks of practice.?
> Hudson, actually, is the most ready to contribute, if only
> Doc wasn't completely set against playing rookies, he might
> have been able to help already.? House continues to be
> a huge inconvenience to almost everything we want to do, and
> his one skill is actually over-abundant on this team.?
> 
> 
> It's not even about athleticism, it's about defending on
> the perimeter.? We have guys with ability who are
> playing right now, guys like Rondo, Pierce, Daniels, who
> weren't that good last night.? We let the Hawks
> outmuscle us, manhandle us, and out work us.? That
> shouldn't happen, but it did.
> 
> But even after getting out-rebounded by an obnoxious
> amount, after giving up 20 2nd chance points, after shooting
> an obscene 1 for 15 from deep, we still had a chance to win
> it in the 4th, only to see us commit 5 silly turnovers to
> begin the 4th.? To me, the chemistry of the starting
> unit is at an all-time low and Doc continues to miss the
> obvious fixer--putting the ball in Rondo's hands full time
> and setting him pick after pick until we get the kind of
> ball and body movement necessary to play good offense.?
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Sat, 11/14/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: Boards
> > To: "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:07 AM
> >? the quick teams are giving us
> > problems maybe we need to use giddens.? & walker
> > more in these games.? The hawks do have a lot of
> good
> > young players? but our? rebounding and lack of
> > getting to the line has to be a concern
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: eggcentric
> > Sender: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > To: Celtics
> > ReplyTo: Celtics
> > Subject: Re: Boards
> > Sent: Nov 14, 2009 6:47 AM
> > 
> > Good morning, Asterix.
> > 
> > Yup, four games in a row now where we have been
> > outrebounded. Certainly Garnett
> > (who has lost some hops) and Wallace (who seldom
> ventures
> > inside due to his
> > role to spread the court and concentrate on threes)
> have
> > lots to do with it. ?As has Perk
> > whose rebounds per game and foot speed are down.
> > 
> > Our starters continue to have problems with younger,
> fast
> > break athletic
> > teams. ?And talk about "Where's Waldo" ... where was
> Rondo
> > last night?
> > Trick or treat?
> > 
> > It appears that there is a growing clubhouse divide
> between
> > our vets and 
> > young guys Rondo, Perk, Big Baby, etc. ?If any coach
> can
> > handle this
> > situation it is Rivers whose chief asset has been his
> > ability to read ?
> > one book ... "How to Win Friends & Influence
> People."
> > 
> > A few more wins and all will be forgotten.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Nov 14, 2009, at 7:59:19 AM, "asterix ninetynine"
> <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From:???"asterix ninetynine" <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject:? ? Boards
> > Date:???November 14, 2009 7:59:19 AM EST
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > We got creamed on the glass against the Hawks.?
> Especially
> > the offensive boards where they beat us 16-6.? That's
> a lot
> > of putbacks.
> > 
> > Even though we're holding other teams to a low amount
> of
> > boards,?we?are still?the lowest rebounding team in
> the
> > league.
> > 
> > Doesn't bode well.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >_______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> >_______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >_______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 15 03:59:54 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:59:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gino's Dead And So Are The Celtics Title Chances
In-Reply-To: <514928.72431.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <360842.23363.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Hate to agree with Ray, and I'm really not going to agree this time either, but he's half-right on a couple of these charges.

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> - There have been too many games this season where the club
> has appeared tired and un-agressive. 

Yeah, the last 2 games.  Before that, it was a combination of fatigue and lack of practice.  But we've lacked aggression the last 2 nights and the intensity--which won us a ton of games the last 2 years, games we wouldn't have otherwise won had we not been so intense--is sorely lacking.  

> 
> - Very apparent, an inability to keep opposing teams off
> the boards.

Meh, that's not as big a problem as it appears.  But it becomes a problem the more we rely on 3 pointers and otherwise become perimeter dependent.

> 
> - Ray Allen is in serious decline. He needs to be removed
> from the starting lineup. If this was Auerbach, and Ray's
> exceedingly valuable contract was set to expire, Red would
> deal him for a young SG. Whether Wyc operates with a similar
> championship-winning philosophy, remains to be seen. 

Won't happen and if it did it would probably ruin our championship chances.  Ray will be resigned at a reasonable number next season.  The problem with trading him now, is that the only players you're going to take back our overpaid players--players teams are looking to get rid of to clear cap space.  Ray's only value is as an expiring--we'll never get equal basketball value unless we include Perk or Baby and frankly we'd never do that either.  Ergo, it'll never happen. 

I think we use Ray incorrectly from time to time, but I wouldn't say his game is in 'serious decline.'  We just shouldn't put him in so many decision making situations, or play him 40 minutes a game.  

> 
> - The starting lineup, as I've mentioned in the past, needs
> an infusion of athleticism. People will suggest Marquis
> Daniels replace Allen, but he's injury prone and a bad
> compliment to Rondo. LOL, maybe they should start
> Daniels at point and move Rondo to the bench. 

No, we should put the ball in our best playmaker's hands all game and quit fucking around and running the game through Paul or Ray.  It needs to stop and it's wasting the talents of our starting lineups.  One of many problems with House, aside from the many obvious ones, is that his presence doesn't allow us to use Rondo as the bridge to the 2nd unit because he's too short to defend 2s.  As such, either Paul or Ray still end up playing too many minutes, limiting their effectiveness down the stretch.  And that's not to mention the problems caused by House, be them whether he's sabotaging the offense or causing Daniels to play out of position.  

>  
> - Pierce, Garnett and Rasheed have all slowed down, so
> there's no one on the Celtics roster who can cover tall
> perimeter shooters.

I don't think so at all.  Pierce is still playing good defense.  So is Garnett, though Josh Smith and Granger are very difficult matchups for him.  

> 
> - The Celtics are too perimeter-oriented, lacking a low
> post presence and in dire need of someone whom can create
> free throw opportunities. 

This is very true.  And it's up to Doc to regain our offensive balance.  That can be done by running the offense through Rondo more, playing Rondo more (and benching House) and getting in transition (where Rondo excels).

> 
> - Garnett is not the same player post-knee injury as pre.
> He is no longer
> a dominant player, although he has an impact in some
> areas.

He's still coming back.  And, frankly, he's looked better each game.  I'm not worried about his game, I'm more worried about our lack of intensity.

> 
> - Rondo is still inhabiting the Rondoverse, still can't
> shoot free throws, etc. etc.

He'll be fine--you don't junk your form and not experience a few bumps in the road.  If we were picking for him more, maybe he could get to the rim and the line and get more practice in.

> 
> - The team really needs a backup PG. And yet, it just
> doesn't seem to
> click with Ainge. House as usual, is useless, when he's not
> shooting
> well. 

House is the most inconvenient player we have.  His presence doesn't allow us to play Rondo with the 2nd team (which is an obvious choice), makes us play Daniels out of position, makes us defensively vulnerable, makes our offense run like shit, makes us more perimeter orientated than we should be--all for the sake of 'spreading the floor.'  

> 
> So, what should Ainge do?
> 
> Put together some deal involving Ray, Davis, Perkins,
> expirings and draft choices, where the Celtics get back S
> Jax, Kaman, and a young SG.

No--he'll sit tight and see how the team responds to the kind of early season adversity they've avoided the last 2 seasons.  I'm thinking they'll regroup, but that's just me.  But Ainge won't panic, especially in November.  That's just dumb.  The trade market won't open up until mid-January anyway.  

Ryan


      


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 15 14:09:49 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: terrible defense
Message-ID: <792236.34649.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

regardless of team D, here were three underperformances:
Pierce -> Jones
KG -> Granger
Wallace -> anybody

Sheed didn't even bother putting his hand up half the time.? Glad he finally had to sit due to a T, and the minutes went to Shelden Williams.?? We are at a defensive disadvantage with Pierce and Allen on the floor together.? I would rather see Marquis Daniels start and guard the hot wing, with Ray coming off the bench.? Pierce just doesn't get it done on those matchups, and Ray is too short.? You could have a bench of Hudson,? House, Walker/Daniels, Scal/Baby, and Willams.? But that's just me...??? Honestly, I do understand Doc's reluctance to play young players, but when the rest of the team isn't getting it done, what do you have to lose??? We are definitely looking old next to these teams.

Perk and Shelden Williams were out there together for a bit, and that was a great rebounding duo!? We need Baby back to rebound - I see Wallace as the odd man out, actually.? He was so listless tonight.? I liked the Wallace signing and he certainly has his strengths (experience), but he does not add energy.? So when we need that, we need Baby & Williams.

Ellie



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 15 17:34:09 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:34:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: terrible defense
In-Reply-To: <792236.34649.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <636873.20185.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

In Pierce's defense, he has a strained MCL right now.  His defense has been pretty good this year, from what I recall.  He did suck last night, but he was hobbled by his injury.

It's too early to contemplate starting five adjustments, but I'm concerned about our lack of chemistry on that unit.  And its lack of fire.  I'll say it again: we fix those issues by putting the ball in Rondo's hands on every possession.  The Big 3 are too old to get the privilege of 10-15 isos a game. 

The one obvious 'change' I see is Hudson for House.  The things that House does are things we have in abundance.  The things he does bad cause us to compromise all across the lineup.  Hudson's energy would be a nice boost to the 2nd lineup, and would perhaps allow Doc to use Rondo as the 2nd team bridge.  

Wallace seems to have brought his Piston nonchalance to the Cs.  Not good.  I hate that this teams seems to have lost its edge; like they don't care as much about losing.  Being an elite team over time does give you perspective and perhaps makes the losses easier to swallow, but I don't like it.  The edge we had the last 2 years allowed us to win a ton of games we wouldn't have otherwise won--we're losing those games this year.  The last 2 games were winnable--we were ahead or within 2 in the 4th quarter and then we just coughed them up.  To me, it's because our edge has dulled.  I hate to blame one guy, but Wallace's Pistons were the exact same way...

Ryan

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: terrible defense
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 8:09 AM
> regardless of team D, here were three
> underperformances:
> Pierce -> Jones
> KG -> Granger
> Wallace -> anybody
> 
> Sheed didn't even bother putting his hand up half the
> time.? Glad he finally had to sit due to a T, and the
> minutes went to Shelden Williams.?? We are at a defensive
> disadvantage with Pierce and Allen on the floor together.?
> I would rather see Marquis Daniels start and guard the hot
> wing, with Ray coming off the bench.? Pierce just doesn't
> get it done on those matchups, and Ray is too short.? You
> could have a bench of Hudson,? House, Walker/Daniels,
> Scal/Baby, and Willams.? But that's just me...???
> Honestly, I do understand Doc's reluctance to play young
> players, but when the rest of the team isn't getting it
> done, what do you have to lose??? We are definitely
> looking old next to these teams.
> 
> Perk and Shelden Williams were out there together for a
> bit, and that was a great rebounding duo!? We need Baby
> back to rebound - I see Wallace as the odd man out,
> actually.? He was so listless tonight.? I liked the
> Wallace signing and he certainly has his strengths
> (experience), but he does not add energy.? So when we need
> that, we need Baby & Williams.
> 
> Ellie
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sun Nov 15 17:39:27 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:39:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: terrible defense
In-Reply-To: <792236.34649.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <792236.34649.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <306819.30181.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is it me or does Pierce look a bit heavier?this year?


Yeah it should be a concern when you are shooting 50%-60% or hedge aving a major rebounding and not building up lead. I had to leave and missed the second half, what happened in Q3?

It may be time to move Ray while we can for a younger player. Some teams just need a big name to put people in the?seats. Ray Allen for Rudy Gay in a package,?Wallace would probably do it.











________________________________
From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 6:09:49 AM
Subject: terrible defense

regardless of team D, here were three underperformances:
Pierce -> Jones
KG -> Granger
Wallace -> anybody

Sheed didn't even bother putting his hand up half the time.? Glad he finally had to sit due to a T, and the minutes went to Shelden Williams.?? We are at a defensive disadvantage with Pierce and Allen on the floor together.? I would rather see Marquis Daniels start and guard the hot wing, with Ray coming off the bench.? Pierce just doesn't get it done on those matchups, and Ray is too short.? You could have a bench of Hudson,? House, Walker/Daniels, Scal/Baby, and Willams.? But that's just me...??? Honestly, I do understand Doc's reluctance to play young players, but when the rest of the team isn't getting it done, what do you have to lose??? We are definitely looking old next to these teams.

Perk and Shelden Williams were out there together for a bit, and that was a great rebounding duo!? We need Baby back to rebound - I see Wallace as the odd man out, actually.? He was so listless tonight.? I liked the Wallace signing and he certainly has his strengths (experience), but he does not add energy.? So when we need that, we need Baby & Williams.

Ellie



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 15 17:58:04 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: terrible defense
In-Reply-To: <306819.30181.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <789928.67527.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> Is it me or does Pierce look a bit
> heavier?this year?

It's you.  It's been remarked by several sources, both inside and outside the C organization, how slim Pierce looks. 

> 
> 
> Yeah it should be a concern when you are shooting 50%-60%
> or hedge aving a major rebounding and not building up lead.
> I had to leave and missed the second half, what happened in
> Q3?

They scored 32 and 29 points in the 3rd and 4th quarter respectively, on 61% shooting.  Most of it came off open jumpers from scrubs like Dahntay Jones.  Doc said we didn't respect some of their players enough.  


Ryan


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Nov 16 13:36:13 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:36:13 -0500
Subject: Why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on it?
In-Reply-To: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911161336.nAGDaJN3018551@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Some weekend huh?

Between the Cs and the Pats - some real gut punch moments all around. I'll save my Pats issues, not the right forum. As for the Cs, I think both of these teams exposed a couple issues of concern (and no, I'm not joining the "trade everyone and anyone for Stephen Jackson" camp).

1. Perk - I continue to defend Perk as a viable center; but I'll give the anti-Perkers some due - he's having a crappy season so far. Is he Sampson where his weight = the hair? Actually, I think number 2 is influencing #1. While his 1 on 1 defense remains pretty good his help defense and (this is the worst) blocking out have been horrendous. 

2. Garnett isn't rotating/blocking shots anymore. He's not just a step slower (which he is), but he's not challenging at all anymore. Once these players get past the first line of defense they are getting to the cup with impunity. The Hawks with their all iso, weak side slash offense REALLY exposed this. What made the defense so great was that the second line was intimidating, physical, and altered shots. Now once the offense gets past the first man the rotation is either slow, or simply doesn't challenge the shot leading to uncontested layups.

3. The 3 ball. Others have mentioned it, but it has infected all aspects of the offensive flow and EVERYONE has the green light. If we brought in Wallace to be a 3 pt gunner - it was a bad signing. Wallace has post, mid, and long range game. If we don't use the other two parts, making the defense have to constantly adjust and think and move - then he doesn't add too much. Add to that a HUGE difference (esp. on the defensive end) in desire from weeks 1 + 2 to now where he simply looks disinterested and there are some MAJOR warning signs there.

4. Blocking out - holy schnikes we stink at blocking out right now. I can understand Josh Smith getting some o-boards - he's lightning quick and jumps a mile, but you still try to block the dude out. Zero effort Friday by anyone to get a body on the Hawks. This to me is the BIGGEST issue - a fundamental problem that has overtaken the entire team.

You can't just show up and win, and I'm getting that vibe from this team after their 7-1 start. They thought they could just show up. A couple of rude face slaps this weekend I hope awoke them from their stupor enough to realize that effort is a prerequisite. Yes, age and treachery will overcome youth and skill, but only if there's effort involved.  Right now the Cs don't have it.


From jozersky at optonline.net  Mon Nov 16 13:42:22 2009
From: jozersky at optonline.net (Josh Ozersky)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:42:22 -0500
Subject: Why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on
	it?
In-Reply-To: <200911161336.nAGDaJN3018551@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
References: <257478.88929.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<200911161336.nAGDaJN3018551@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <691352B954F04ED7A267C6E41CFBF2DE@JoshPC>

This is a really good, insightful post. I wonder how much of this can be 
solved with
effort and practice.

--------------------------------------------------
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:36 AM
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on 
it?

> Some weekend huh?
>
> Between the Cs and the Pats - some real gut punch moments all around. I'll 
> save my Pats issues, not the right forum. As for the Cs, I think both of 
> these teams exposed a couple issues of concern (and no, I'm not joining 
> the "trade everyone and anyone for Stephen Jackson" camp).
>
> 1. Perk - I continue to defend Perk as a viable center; but I'll give the 
> anti-Perkers some due - he's having a crappy season so far. Is he Sampson 
> where his weight = the hair? Actually, I think number 2 is influencing #1. 
> While his 1 on 1 defense remains pretty good his help defense and (this is 
> the worst) blocking out have been horrendous.
>
> 2. Garnett isn't rotating/blocking shots anymore. He's not just a step 
> slower (which he is), but he's not challenging at all anymore. Once these 
> players get past the first line of defense they are getting to the cup 
> with impunity. The Hawks with their all iso, weak side slash offense 
> REALLY exposed this. What made the defense so great was that the second 
> line was intimidating, physical, and altered shots. Now once the offense 
> gets past the first man the rotation is either slow, or simply doesn't 
> challenge the shot leading to uncontested layups.
>
> 3. The 3 ball. Others have mentioned it, but it has infected all aspects 
> of the offensive flow and EVERYONE has the green light. If we brought in 
> Wallace to be a 3 pt gunner - it was a bad signing. Wallace has post, mid, 
> and long range game. If we don't use the other two parts, making the 
> defense have to constantly adjust and think and move - then he doesn't add 
> too much. Add to that a HUGE difference (esp. on the defensive end) in 
> desire from weeks 1 + 2 to now where he simply looks disinterested and 
> there are some MAJOR warning signs there.
>
> 4. Blocking out - holy schnikes we stink at blocking out right now. I can 
> understand Josh Smith getting some o-boards - he's lightning quick and 
> jumps a mile, but you still try to block the dude out. Zero effort Friday 
> by anyone to get a body on the Hawks. This to me is the BIGGEST issue - a 
> fundamental problem that has overtaken the entire team.
>
> You can't just show up and win, and I'm getting that vibe from this team 
> after their 7-1 start. They thought they could just show up. A couple of 
> rude face slaps this weekend I hope awoke them from their stupor enough to 
> realize that effort is a prerequisite. Yes, age and treachery will 
> overcome youth and skill, but only if there's effort involved.  Right now 
> the Cs don't have it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


From BDodgers at aol.com  Tue Nov 17 00:33:03 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:33:03 EST
Subject: Warriors don't get much for Jackson
Message-ID: <c21.5db1dfad.3833493f@aol.com>

 
Warriors don't get much for Jackson
 
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

 
What a humiliating about-face. Less than a year after the  Warriors' 
dysfunctional management proudly signed team captain _Stephen  Jackson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=378)  to a cap-crippling 
three-year, $28 million extension negotiated  behind then-general manager Chris 
Mullin's back, they gave away the disgruntled  veteran for cap relief on 
Monday by dealing him and _Acie Law_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3219)   to Charlotte for _Raja Bell_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=49)   and _Vladimir  Radmanovic_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1016) . Radmanovic's own contract 
is bad enough that the Lakers gave him  away at the trade deadline a year 
earlier, speaking volumes about the Warriors'  gaffe with Jackson. 
What makes this even worse is that it appears Golden  State took the 
second-best offer on the table. Multiple league sources told me  the Cavaliers 
were ready to move ahead with a deal featuring a signed-and-traded  _Wally  
Szczerbiak_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=831) , 
_Delonte  West_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2422)  
and perhaps some ancillary flotsam in return for Jackson, a deal that  would 
have been visibly superior to the Charlotte deal from both a  cap-management 
and talent perspective. 
Let's run through the math. Bell is a productive player -- but at a much  
lower level than Jackson -- and is on the final year of his contract, making 
the  primary benefit of the deal for Golden State the fact it clears $9.2 
million in  cap space in 2011. The Warriors are now a potential player in that 
year's  free-agent market, depending on future moves. 
But they could have cleared even more cap space with Cleveland's offer. 
Such  a deal would have given the Warriors full, immediate relief from 
Jackson's deal  after the season once they waived West (whose contract isn't 
guaranteed for next  year) and Szczerbiak (whose contract wouldn't be guaranteed 
beyond this year in  a sign-and-trade).  
Such an arrangement would also have given the Warriors two major assets in  
the "confederate money" of non-guaranteed contracts. They had the 
alternative of  pursuing a big fish in a trade with those deals at the trade 
deadline,  especially since acquiring West and Szczerbiak at this early juncture 
meant both  players would have been eligible for inclusion in package deals by 
February.  
Given that none of the participants pack much on-court value to a Warriors  
team that's headed for the lottery regardless -- especially with the coach  
mailing in games and blithely surrendering 29-point quarters -- the future  
ramifications were vastly more important for Golden State. That they didn't 
do  the Cleveland deal makes one wonder if their motivation to stick 
Jackson on a  bad team trumped their duty to the organization to make the best 
deal available.  Though a reliable source swears to me that isn't the case, I 
have to note that  it wouldn't be the first time Don Nelson put one over on 
somebody; and even at  this late date it probably won't be the last. 
The Warriors' hand had been forced, of course, by Jackson's trade demand  
earlier this fall, and there's no certainty that the feisty, no-nonsense Bell 
 will tolerate the Dubs any longer than Jackson did. He's on the last year 
of his  contract and may seek a buyout; alternatively, he could elect to 
undergo wrist  surgery that he forestalled while gutting out games in 
Charlotte. If neither  scenario happens, Bay Area gamblers will immediately start 
pools on what date  he'll issue his first trade demand.  
As for Charlotte, this deal is questionable on their  part, too. The 
Bobcats were desperate for offense, so this trade makes sense on  that front, but 
it appears to be a short-sighted maneuver. The deal adds more  than $20 
million in future salary, salary the team had just unloaded in a  previous trade 
of _Emeka  Okafor_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2399)  for _Tyson  Chandler_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984) . It takes Charlotte out of the 2011 free-agent market and 
likely  pulls 2012 off the table for them, too. (They'll have $30 million 
committed to  four players, plus a likely extension for _D.J.  Augustin_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3415) , plus the contracts 
of any draft picks and signings between now and  then.)  
Given that the Bobcats aren't exactly contending for the championship at 
the  moment, the parsimony of owner Robert Johnson and his efforts to sell the 
team,  it's surprising he signed off on the swap. Perhaps he figured a 
short-term boost  to the Bobcats' dwindling attendance was worth the trade-off 
of long-term  salary. 
Jackson should be a useful player in Charlotte. He'll start at the 2, which 
 is a stretch for him defensively, but he can initiate offense, shoot 3s 
and  create shots for others -- all areas where Charlotte has struggled.  
Additionally, he's an iron man who routinely plays 40-plus minutes, which should 
 prove helpful on the depth-starved Bobcats. He'll make a bad team less 
awful,  basically. 
One other important note, especially for you fantasy  players -- his stats 
will likely take a savage beating. Golden State played the  league's fastest 
pace last season; Charlotte is _playing  the league's slowest_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=pac&seasonType=2&league=nba)  
this season. The roughly 15 percent difference means  Jackson's 20-point 
average last season becomes 17, his 6.5 assists become 5.2,  and so on down the 
line.  
That, mind you, presumes he'll continue playing the 39.6 minutes a game he  
averaged last season. If that declines at all -- and it may, especially 
given  Larry Brown's near-comical conservatism with foul trouble -- then his 
averages  will suffer regardless of how much the Bobcats run their offense 
through him.  
None of that, however, answers our biggest question about this trade: Why 
is  Jackson heading to Charlotte instead of Cleveland? 

From Mafiaso316 at aol.com  Tue Nov 17 00:47:45 2009
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:47:45 EST
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
Message-ID: <d35.5af05df1.38334cb1@aol.com>



The Iverson in Memphis experiment only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be  
placed on waivers tomorrow by Memphis.
 
Paolo Dellasandro

From renrile at qualcomm.com  Tue Nov 17 01:18:53 2009
From: renrile at qualcomm.com (Enrile, Roy)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:18:53 -0800
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <d35.5af05df1.38334cb1@aol.com>
References: <d35.5af05df1.38334cb1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF1618156FE0B18B@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>

What a waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  They were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could have a draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.

On the past 2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, because I think the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on against true contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick than Indy/Atl).

Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting fierce on O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have been better to gamble on signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the playoffs, while Shelden would FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season & playoffs.  I'm glad that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for the guy he thought would be a sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt & we'd need the depth to fight for homecourt).


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM

The Iverson in Memphis experiment only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
placed on waivers tomorrow by Memphis.



From Mafiaso316 at aol.com  Tue Nov 17 01:24:54 2009
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:24:54 EST
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
Message-ID: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>

Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
 waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
 
 
In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
renrile at qualcomm.com writes:

What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.

On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
than  Indy/Atl).

Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
homecourt).


-----Original  Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM

The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.


_______________________________________________
The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



From jozersky at optonline.net  Tue Nov 17 01:49:58 2009
From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:49:58 +0000
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
Message-ID: <998340154-1258422342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2051654504-@bda657.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

We ought to sign him tomorrow.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:24:54 
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
 waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
 
 
In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
renrile at qualcomm.com writes:

What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.

On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
than  Indy/Atl).

Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
homecourt).


-----Original  Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM

The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.


_______________________________________________
The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From douglas342 at aol.com  Tue Nov 17 02:19:26 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:19:26 -0500
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <998340154-1258422342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2051654504-@bda657.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
	<998340154-1258422342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2051654504-@bda657.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <8CC3543855B0634-3288-8ED@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com>

Josh, is it April 1 where you are? Say it ain't so! This guy says he 
won't play if he can't start. You're going to bench Allen? Rondo? Then 
AI will start bitching about minutes? Look, Iverson is one guy who is 
worth the price of a ticket by himself, but if he doesn't know how to 
deal with being outside the spotlight, the Celtics don't need him.


-----Original Message-----
From: jozersky at optonline.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis



We ought to sign him tomorrow.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:24:54
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to 
the
waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a
little bit of his pay. They got lucky.


In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
renrile at qualcomm.com writes:

What a waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.
They were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they 
could
have a draw for their games), then they release him & will probably end 
up
paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.

On the past 2 Celts games. The losses aren't too depressing for me,
because I think the starters are good enough to turn the 
defense/rebounding on
against true contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less 
quick
than Indy/Atl).

Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting fierce on
O-boards. For whoever said early-on that it would have been better to 
gamble
on
signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the playoffs, while Shelden 
would
FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season & playoffs. I'm glad
that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for the guy he thought would 
be a
sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt & we'd need the depth to fight 
for
homecourt).


-----Original Message-----
 From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf
Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM

The Iverson in Memphis experiment only lasts 3 games. Iverson will be
placed on waivers tomorrow by Memphis.


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Tue Nov 17 03:07:58 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:07:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <8CC3543855B0634-3288-8ED@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
	<998340154-1258422342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2051654504-@bda657.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<8CC3543855B0634-3288-8ED@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <174473.23633.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Could be different behind Ray than a team with a bunch of kids. Marbury revisited

The Knicks are rumored to be looking




________________________________
From: "douglas342 at aol.com" <douglas342 at aol.com>
To: jozersky at optonline.net; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 6:19:26 PM
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

Josh, is it April 1 where you are? Say it ain't so! This guy says he won't play if he can't start. You're going to bench Allen? Rondo? Then AI will start bitching about minutes? Look, Iverson is one guy who is worth the price of a ticket by himself, but if he doesn't know how to deal with being outside the spotlight, the Celtics don't need him.


-----Original Message-----
From: jozersky at optonline.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis



We ought to sign him tomorrow.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:24:54
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the
waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a
little bit of his pay. They got lucky.


In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
renrile at qualcomm.com writes:

What a waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.
They were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could
have a draw for their games), then they release him & will probably end up
paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.

On the past 2 Celts games. The losses aren't too depressing for me,
because I think the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on
against true contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick
than Indy/Atl).

Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting fierce on
O-boards. For whoever said early-on that it would have been better to gamble
on
signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the playoffs, while Shelden would
FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season & playoffs. I'm glad
that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for the guy he thought would be a
sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt & we'd need the depth to fight for
homecourt).


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM

The Iverson in Memphis experiment only lasts 3 games. Iverson will be
placed on waivers tomorrow by Memphis.


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From jbrainin at verizon.net  Tue Nov 17 03:52:43 2009
From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:52:43 -0500
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <174473.23633.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
	<998340154-1258422342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2051654504-@bda657.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<8CC3543855B0634-3288-8ED@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com>
	<174473.23633.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E2136554-7C41-4750-A353-5A04453D29C8@verizon.net>

I'm sure that Utah is praying for the Knicks to sign Iverson.

On Nov 16, 2009, at 10:07 PM, John Lyell wrote:

> Could be different behind Ray than a team with a bunch of kids. Marbury revisited
> 
> The Knicks are rumored to be looking


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Tue Nov 17 05:06:44 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:06:44 -0500
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KT800351M7G46R3@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>

His agreeing to the waivers wouldn't affect anything. Are you saying 
there was a buyout (which yes, has to include waivers before the 
player is off the reoster)? That's a different matter.

At 08:24 PM 11/16/2009, Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote:
>Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the
>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a
>little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 12:19:48 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:19:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
Message-ID: <765969.97896.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Iverson to Cleveland?

Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
> little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
> What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
> They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
> have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
> paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.
> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
> because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
> against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
> than  Indy/Atl).
> Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
> O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
> FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
> that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
> homecourt).
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM
> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
> placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.
> _______________________________________________
> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Nov 17 12:21:37 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:21:37 -0500
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <765969.97896.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <bbe.5cc2966b.38335566@aol.com>
	<765969.97896.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911171221.nAHCLdwR000113@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Filling Delonte's role? I wouldn't rule it out.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:20 AM
To: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Cc: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

Iverson to Cleveland?

Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
> little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
> What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
> They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
> have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
> paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.
> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
> because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
> against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
> than  Indy/Atl).
> Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
> O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
> FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
> that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
> homecourt).
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM
> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
> placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.
> _______________________________________________
> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 12:24:25 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <200911171221.nAHCLdwR000113@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <845254.94712.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Shaq and LeBron to keep him in line

Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Filling Delonte's role? I wouldn't rule it out.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:20 AM
> To: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Cc: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis
> Iverson to Cleveland?
> Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
>> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
>>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
>> little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>> renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
>> What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
>> They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
>> have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
>> paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.
>> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
>> because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
>> against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
>> than  Indy/Atl).
>> Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
>> O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
>> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
>> FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
>> that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
>> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
>> homecourt).
>> -----Original  Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
>> Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM
>> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
>> placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.
>> _______________________________________________
>> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 12:25:16 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:25:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <200911171221.nAHCLdwR000113@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <69615.32188.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Shaq and LeBron to keep him in line

Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Filling Delonte's role? I wouldn't rule it out.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:20 AM
> To: Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Cc: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis
> Iverson to Cleveland?
> Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote: 
>> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is agreeing to the 
>>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's are only on the hook for a 
>> little bit  of his pay.  They got lucky.
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>> renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
>> What a  waste of Memphis owners money, and embarrassment for our old GM.  
>> They  were fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they could 
>> have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will probably end up  
>> paying his salary, while he plays for some contending team.
>> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses aren't too depressing for me, 
>> because I think  the starters are good enough to turn the defense/rebounding on 
>> against true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less quick 
>> than  Indy/Atl).
>> Also good for Shelden putting in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
>> O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been better to gamble on 
>> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in the  playoffs, while Shelden would 
>> FOR SURE be a useless 10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
>> that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would be a 
>> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need the depth to fight for 
>> homecourt).
>> -----Original  Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
>> Sent:  Monday, November 16, 2009 4:48 PM
>> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
>> placed on waivers tomorrow by  Memphis.
>> _______________________________________________
>> The  Boston Celtics Mailing  List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 14:56:06 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:56:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fw: I'm Disappointed Ainge Didn't Go After S Jax
Message-ID: <920976.17939.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Actually, I mailed this to the list Monday, but apparently IGTC had a hiccup.

> Sure, Jackson is a Rondope-esque
> knucklehead punk.
> 
> But...
> 
> He can shoot, score, run an offense, rebound, pass, play
> multiple 
> positions, and guard the perimeter when he's motivated.
> 
> As the Celtics are currently constructed, the
> Perkins-Garnett-Pierce-Allen
> starting quartet is one of the least athletic in the NBA
> with Garnett,
> Pierce and Allen slowed down, either due to injury or
> age/NBA wear, and Perk was never that athletic to begin
> with. So, that quartet is having a great deal of difficulty
> guarding perimeter shooters and quicker players. 
> 
> S Jax would have helped the Celtics greatly, either moving
> Allen to the
> bench and improving the starting unit's athleticism/defense
> or coming off
> the bench to function as the backup point, defender of tall
> perimeter
> players, three-point shooter/replacement for Abandoned
> House and scorer.
> 
> Ray? ? 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Nov 17 15:40:33 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:40:33 -0500
Subject: I'm Disappointed Ainge Didn't Go After S Jax
In-Reply-To: <920976.17939.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <920976.17939.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911171540.nAHFeaD6029797@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Who says he didn't?

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:56 AM
To: Celtics Are Idiots List
Subject: Fw: I'm Disappointed Ainge Didn't Go After S Jax

Actually, I mailed this to the list Monday, but apparently IGTC had a hiccup.

> Sure, Jackson is a Rondope-esque
> knucklehead punk.
> 
> But...
> 
> He can shoot, score, run an offense, rebound, pass, play
> multiple 
> positions, and guard the perimeter when he's motivated.
> 
> As the Celtics are currently constructed, the
> Perkins-Garnett-Pierce-Allen
> starting quartet is one of the least athletic in the NBA
> with Garnett,
> Pierce and Allen slowed down, either due to injury or
> age/NBA wear, and Perk was never that athletic to begin
> with. So, that quartet is having a great deal of difficulty
> guarding perimeter shooters and quicker players. 
> 
> S Jax would have helped the Celtics greatly, either moving
> Allen to the
> bench and improving the starting unit's athleticism/defense
> or coming off
> the bench to function as the backup point, defender of tall
> perimeter
> players, three-point shooter/replacement for Abandoned
> House and scorer.
> 
> Ray? ? 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Mafiaso316 at aol.com  Tue Nov 17 19:31:22 2009
From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:31:22 EST
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
Message-ID: <bd6.5fa00028.3834540a@aol.com>

NY Slicks
 
 
In a message dated 11/17/2009 7:25:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com writes:

Shaq and  LeBron to keep him in line

Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
>  Filling Delonte's role? I wouldn't rule it out.
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:20 AM
> To:  Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Cc: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Iverson  out in Memphis
> Iverson to Cleveland?
> Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote:  
>> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is  agreeing to 
the 
>>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's  are only on the hook for a 
>> little bit  of his pay.   They got lucky.
>>  
>>  
>> In a message  dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>>  renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
>> What a  waste of Memphis owners  money, and embarrassment for our old 
GM.  
>> They  were  fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they 
could 
>>  have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will  probably 
end up  
>> paying his salary, while he plays for some  contending team.
>> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses  aren't too depressing for me, 
>> because I think  the starters  are good enough to turn the 
defense/rebounding on 
>> against  true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less 
quick  
>> than  Indy/Atl).
>> Also good for Shelden putting  in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
>>  O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been  better 
to gamble on 
>> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in  the  playoffs, while Shelden 
would 
>> FOR SURE be a useless  10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
>>  that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would 
 be a 
>> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need  the depth to fight 
for 
>> homecourt).
>>  -----Original  Message-----
>> From:  celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf  
>> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
>> Sent:  Monday, November  16, 2009 4:48 PM
>> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only  lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
>> placed on waivers tomorrow  by  Memphis.
>>  _______________________________________________
>> The  Boston  Celtics Mailing  List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>  _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>        
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston  Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics





_______________________________________________
The Boston  Celtics Mailing  List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Tue Nov 17 19:48:28 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:48:28 -0500
Subject: Iverson out in Memphis
In-Reply-To: <bd6.5fa00028.3834540a@aol.com>
References: <bd6.5fa00028.3834540a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200911171948.nAHJmU6q006183@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

Wouldn't rule that out either. For AI it comes down to a decision of starting and being the main man on a poor team or being a third wheel on a good team. It's really either or. 

Given his most recent issues; including on a VERY good Denver team I see him outwardly saying one thing (I can integrate my declining skills on to a good team), but unable to actually do it and stay humble when actually on the team. 

It's exactly why I don't want him anywhere near the Cs (Sorry Josh). He just can't "play second fiddle" in the band. It's not in his nature, his personality, or his desire. It doesn't matter who is on the team to "help steer him" either. He is one of the ultra Type A people who listens to one voice, and one voice only - his own.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:31 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: Iverson out in Memphis

NY Slicks
 
 
In a message dated 11/17/2009 7:25:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com writes:

Shaq and  LeBron to keep him in line

Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
>  Filling Delonte's role? I wouldn't rule it out.
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:20 AM
> To:  Mafiaso316 at aol.com
> Cc: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Iverson  out in Memphis
> Iverson to Cleveland?
> Mafiaso316 at aol.com wrote:  
>> Actually, they will only be paying a small portion as he is  agreeing to 
the 
>>  waivers as he requested it and the Grizz's  are only on the hook for a 
>> little bit  of his pay.   They got lucky.
>>  
>>  
>> In a message  dated 11/16/2009 8:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>>  renrile at qualcomm.com writes:
>> What a  waste of Memphis owners  money, and embarrassment for our old 
GM.  
>> They  were  fighting Miami, chasing after the guy all summer (so they 
could 
>>  have a  draw for their games),  then they release him & will  probably 
end up  
>> paying his salary, while he plays for some  contending team.
>> On the past  2 Celts games.  The losses  aren't too depressing for me, 
>> because I think  the starters  are good enough to turn the 
defense/rebounding on 
>> against  true  contending teams (who are always more halfcourt, and less 
quick  
>> than  Indy/Atl).
>> Also good for Shelden putting  in solid minutes & getting  fierce on 
>>  O-boards.   For whoever said early-on that it would have  been  better 
to gamble on 
>> signing Leon MIGHT return & be usefull in  the  playoffs, while Shelden 
would 
>> FOR SURE be a useless  10th man during reg season  & playoffs.  I'm glad 
>>  that Ainge isn't as sentimental, and went for  the guy he thought would 
 be a 
>> sure bet (since Baby/KG could get hurt &  we'd need  the depth to fight 
for 
>> homecourt).
>>  -----Original  Message-----
>> From:  celtics-bounces at igtc.com  [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf  
>> Of Mafiaso316 at aol.com
>> Sent:  Monday, November  16, 2009 4:48 PM
>> The Iverson in Memphis experiment  only  lasts 3 games.  Iverson will be
>> placed on waivers tomorrow  by  Memphis.
>>  _______________________________________________
>> The  Boston  Celtics Mailing  List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>  _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>        
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston  Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics  Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
>  http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics





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celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


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celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 20:09:13 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:09:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I agree with Ray 
Message-ID: <548933.21846.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Given what the Warriors got for Jackson (an injured veteran swingman and a tall jump shooter, both of whom have expiring contracts), I certainly would have offered Scal+ Tony+ Giddens/Walker. Maybe GS wouldn't have gone for it, but the players they got are not appreciably better (I say that given Bell's injury status).

As Ray notes, Jackson could have moved Jesus to the bench or, I am sure, would have gladly joined the bench mob of Sheed, House, Daniels and Baby. He'd give us that big wing defender we still need: 

Jackson = 6'8, 220 lbs
Marquis = 6'6, 200 lbs



      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Nov 18 14:36:40 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:36:40 -0500
Subject: Mountains & Molehills 101
In-Reply-To: <548933.21846.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <548933.21846.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911181436.nAIEahYK006679@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

So is the key question of this team really Ray Allen like so many keep alluding to via trade talk or is it, in fact, KG? I liked the recent thought process of "sectorizing" the season. As a former coach that was a useful tool in planning out my practices - how I wanted the team to progress and in what area with flexibility to adjust as new strengths and weaknesses emerged. 

The flaw however, in this particular case, is when will KG be "recovered". And by recovered, I don't just mean his current state of playing, but instead more to the usual "full recovery from knee surgery" we often spoke of regarding one Tony Allen.

KGs impact to a team is his intensity. That fuels his entire contribution on both ends of the floor. So far this season, while the outward intensity has been as it always has, the performance aspect of that intensity - the explosive quickness, jumping ability, shot intimidation, and defensive rotation has NOT been there. 

Will it return? I don't have a crystal ball. However, MOST examples indicate that most of his ability (minus the part that is irreplaceable after any surgery) will return between the 9 month and one year point after the procedure. So yes, looking at the data of 10 games of the season is a good tool, but it leaves out a significant aspect: come April and May...shouldn't a MORE recovered KG have the MOST significant impact as to whether or not this team is in title contention?


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 19 01:11:54 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:11:54 -0400
Subject: Granger
Message-ID: <BAY128-W18FBB593D34B8B8D272E5DD9A20@phx.gbl>


Danny Granger has 30 points so far tonight vs the Knickers...and it's not even halftime yet!!

 

Cecil
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

From jaims at pldtdsl.net  Thu Nov 19 02:57:14 2009
From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:57:14 +0800
Subject: Granger
In-Reply-To: <BAY128-W18FBB593D34B8B8D272E5DD9A20@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY128-W18FBB593D34B8B8D272E5DD9A20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000301ca68c3$fff6b470$ffe41d50$@net>

great 1st half...but was shut down in the 2nd half.  finished with 33pts.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Cecil Wright
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:12 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Granger


Danny Granger has 30 points so far tonight vs the Knickers...and it's not
even halftime yet!!

 

Cecil
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they
e-mail you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From davidp4660 at cox.net  Thu Nov 19 03:06:50 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:06:50 -0500
Subject: Granger
In-Reply-To: <000301ca68c3$fff6b470$ffe41d50$@net>
Message-ID: <20091118220651.04QBB.1022579.imail@eastrmwml47>

So were the Pacers.
---- Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net> wrote: 
> great 1st half...but was shut down in the 2nd half.  finished with 33pts.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Cecil Wright
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:12 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Granger
> 
> 
> Danny Granger has 30 points so far tonight vs the Knickers...and it's not
> even halftime yet!!
> 
>  
> 
> Cecil
>  		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they
> e-mail you.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Eric at EricAlbert.net  Thu Nov 19 04:46:44 2009
From: Eric at EricAlbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:46:44 -0500
Subject: I like it . . .
Message-ID: <1258606004.24859.1345980053@webmail.messagingengine.com>

. . . when Rondo comes to play. Even if it takes him half a game to show
up.

-- Eric


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 19 12:14:43 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:14:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Mountains & Molehills 101
In-Reply-To: <200911181436.nAIEahYK006679@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <611415.90919.qm@web65501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Depends.  The fact that he&#39;s playing the numbers of minutes may or may not advance his recovery.   Also, I wouldn&#39;t equate his recovery time to TA because the injuries were different.

Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> So is the key question of this team really Ray Allen like so many keep alluding to via trade talk or is it, in fact, KG? I liked the recent thought process of "sectorizing" the season. As a former coach that was a useful tool in planning out my practices - how I wanted the team to progress and in what area with flexibility to adjust as new strengths and weaknesses emerged. 
> The flaw however, in this particular case, is when will KG be "recovered". And by recovered, I don't just mean his current state of playing, but instead more to the usual "full recovery from knee surgery" we often spoke of regarding one Tony Allen.
> KGs impact to a team is his intensity. That fuels his entire contribution on both ends of the floor. So far this season, while the outward intensity has been as it always has, the performance aspect of that intensity - the explosive quickness, jumping ability, shot intimidation, and defensive rotation has NOT been there. 
> Will it return? I don't have a crystal ball. However, MOST examples indicate that most of his ability (minus the part that is irreplaceable after any surgery) will return between the 9 month and one year point after the procedure. So yes, looking at the data of 10 games of the season is a good tool, but it leaves out a significant aspect: come April and May...shouldn't a MORE recovered KG have the MOST significant impact as to whether or not this team is in title contention?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 19 13:16:22 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I like it . . .
In-Reply-To: <1258606004.24859.1345980053@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <478132.28473.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Meh--nobody's been playing consistently good on this team, from Pierce on down.  Rondo's energy definitely sparked us last night in the 2nd half, but it wasn't like he was dragging down the rest of the team in the 1st half.  Everyone was lackadaisical.

What last night showed is what has been obvious for the last 2 years--we're at our best when Rondo's got the ball in his hands and we're setting him high screens, allowing him to get to the rim or find open shooters.  I swear we set more high screens for Rondo last night than we had in the last 4 games combined.  Why we don't do that every night is something only Doc knows...

What I especially liked was that Rondo played the bridge role to the 2nd unit.  I've been bitching about this since last season, but it's the only way we're going to get adequate rest for Ray/Paul, plus it keeps everyone in their natural positions, and brings out the best in our 2nd unit players.  The minute distribution was about as good as it can be--Ray, just under 30, Paul 34, and Rondo 36.  Knowing Doc, however, it might just be a one night thing. 

Ryan

--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net> wrote:

> From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
> Subject: I like it . . .
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 10:46 PM
> . . . when Rondo comes to play. Even
> if it takes him half a game to show
> up.
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Nov 19 13:21:35 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:21:35 -0500
Subject: I like it . . .
In-Reply-To: <478132.28473.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <1258606004.24859.1345980053@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<478132.28473.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911191321.nAJDLbnL013430@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Agree 100% - our offensive flow, spacing and movement is at its best when Rondo has the ball. While Pierce and Garnett do pass the ball sufficiently, it is usually not to the shooter's spot in the flow, but rather out of the double team as the defense expects it. Also concur that Rondo should necessarily be playing more minutes - not just for the reason Ryan indicates below, but also because we don't have a true backup PG, lessening that weaknesses overall impact.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:16 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: I like it . . .

Meh--nobody's been playing consistently good on this team, from Pierce on down.  Rondo's energy definitely sparked us last night in the 2nd half, but it wasn't like he was dragging down the rest of the team in the 1st half.  Everyone was lackadaisical.

What last night showed is what has been obvious for the last 2 years--we're at our best when Rondo's got the ball in his hands and we're setting him high screens, allowing him to get to the rim or find open shooters.  I swear we set more high screens for Rondo last night than we had in the last 4 games combined.  Why we don't do that every night is something only Doc knows...

What I especially liked was that Rondo played the bridge role to the 2nd unit.  I've been bitching about this since last season, but it's the only way we're going to get adequate rest for Ray/Paul, plus it keeps everyone in their natural positions, and brings out the best in our 2nd unit players.  The minute distribution was about as good as it can be--Ray, just under 30, Paul 34, and Rondo 36.  Knowing Doc, however, it might just be a one night thing. 

Ryan

--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net> wrote:

> From: Eric Albert <Eric at EricAlbert.net>
> Subject: I like it . . .
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 10:46 PM
> . . . when Rondo comes to play. Even
> if it takes him half a game to show
> up.
> 
> -- Eric
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 20 14:54:45 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:54:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: who's in charge here?
Message-ID: <199390.56845.qm@web63106.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

KG's lateral movement is restricted by his knee.? You can see it clearly on defense - when he as to slie, he's slow to get to either his man, or whoever got through the guards.? This is huge!? And, it affects his attitude - he's no longer the beast out there.

In light of this, I think it is up to Rondo to step up and lead this team, like he did in the 3rd quarter against GS.? You have your contract, now get your head into EVERY quarter of every game.? Be the man! ? Rondo is the only other player who has KG's toughness and attitude, and can back it up with aggressive play for the duration of an entire game.? (well, I think Hudson can also play like this...).

Play Rondo 40 minutes - team him w/Daniels, House, or Hudson at the 2.

KG is not scaring anyone at the moment. Is his movement really going to improve as the season goes on? Granger, Maggette, had field days on him.? How do you think he's going to play Rashard Lewis (if he's back)?? Play Shelden Williams more.? And when is Baby coming back?

At least Courtney Lee is not on the Magic this year.? I like that kid - would be a good player for the Cs.?? Are Vince Carter & Pierce going to focus on eachother?
...looking forward to tonight's game.

?-Ellie



      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Nov 20 17:21:31 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:21:31 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
Message-ID: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>

? So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for?
both teams.?
?   - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog

Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of interest) 
cruised over the?importance of?the injured Nelson (the heart and soul of?
the Magic)?once again being out for an extended period.??Jeff merely states?
that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG matchup. ?
Was there ever a doubt?

As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight?
at home against the redcoats and Tories.??Will we make Molly
Stark a widow? ?

Final records all seem to come down to key injuries,?and the only key one 
we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our?starting five in several years 
has been Garnett... not any of our other?starters.

Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced) 
appears?to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of ourselves
to?compete for another championship. ?We are one of the oldest,
big-mouthed, hated teams?in the league.??But then all players think
all other players mortal but themselves.?

GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
overall performance.? ?

WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned?as
"Sixth Man of the Year,"?has been nothing more than an?out-of-shape, 
over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional?
game of chucking up threes. ?Excess of severity is not the path to 
order but merely?the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man 
so in the way in his own house. ?Still a great clubhouse guy though,
according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.

Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging?
40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.? Ugly.?

RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he?
has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
game to game.? It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.??
And I doubt that will ever change.? He is what?he is.? No way do ?
I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
franchise player. ?

No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not 
lose him,?continues to attempt to trade him for?Chris Paul, etc. 
only to be turned down.

PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most?
?full of himself? player in the league.? He means well, if
he only had a brain or education.? He and our other equally?
arrogant young guys? (Rondo, Big Baby, et al), having been?
part of a championship team,?have now bonded against being
considered 2nd class citizens to our Big Three.?
They remain in permanent feud mode with both our coaches?
and our vets. ?Good luck, guys.

Our clubhouse is not exactly filled with good cheer and?
UBUNTU right now,? And it's showing in our games, no
matter what Doc's post-game spins are, or what the?
conflict-of-interest wimpy beat reporters are willing?
to address.

?I like where we're at,? Rivers said. ?We're fine.??

And if we're not??

The same old line ?We'll learn from it.??


Egg
??


From jeffclark at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 17:34:18 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:34:18 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
References: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670911200934n7e42453fmc605f639f8d3b6fe@mail.gmail.com>

boooooooooring

wake me when you write something new

2009/11/20 eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>

> ? So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for
> both teams.?
>     - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog
>
> Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of interest)
> cruised over the importance of the injured Nelson (the heart and soul of
> the Magic) once again being out for an extended period.  Jeff merely
> states
> that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG matchup.
> Was there ever a doubt?
>
> As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight
> at home against the redcoats and Tories.  Will we make Molly
> Stark a widow?
>
> Final records all seem to come down to key injuries, and the only key one
> we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our starting five in several years
> has been Garnett... not any of our other starters.
>
> Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced)
> appears to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of ourselves
> to compete for another championship.  We are one of the oldest,
> big-mouthed, hated teams in the league.  But then all players think
> all other players mortal but themselves.
>
> GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
> And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
> overall performance.
>
> WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned as
> "Sixth Man of the Year," has been nothing more than an out-of-shape,
> over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional
> game of chucking up threes.  Excess of severity is not the path to
> order but merely the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man
> so in the way in his own house.  Still a great clubhouse guy though,
> according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.
>
> Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging
> 40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.  Ugly.
>
> RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he
> has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
> game to game.  It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.
> And I doubt that will ever change.  He is what he is.  No way do
> I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
> franchise player.
>
> No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not
> lose him, continues to attempt to trade him for Chris Paul, etc.
> only to be turned down.
>
> PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most
> ?full of himself? player in the league.  He means well, if
> he only had a brain or education.  He and our other equally
> arrogant young guys  (Rondo, Big Baby, et al), having been
> part of a championship team, have now bonded against being
> considered 2nd class citizens to our Big Three.
> They remain in permanent feud mode with both our coaches
> and our vets.  Good luck, guys.
>
> Our clubhouse is not exactly filled with good cheer and
> UBUNTU right now,  And it's showing in our games, no
> matter what Doc's post-game spins are, or what the
> conflict-of-interest wimpy beat reporters are willing
> to address.
>
> ?I like where we're at,? Rivers said. ?We're fine.?
>
> And if we're not?
>
> The same old line ?We'll learn from it.?
>
>
> Egg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From pmaymin at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 17:35:35 2009
From: pmaymin at gmail.com (Phil Maymin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:35:35 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
References: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C8DED712-558A-42AB-9D34-C04DAC9D0023@gmail.com>

Egg is right. Here's my one sentence summary/explanation: our defense  
sucks. Partially because KG isn't KG, Sheed isn't Sheed, and Rondo is  
Rondo (bad rotating and too much stealing attempts). There *is* is a  
way to ubuntuize them. We've seen some great early games of defense.  
But we are not there yet.

I think part of the problem is Rondo does not recognize how great he  
truly is. He is still comparing himself to other PGs when he should be  
comparing himself to All-NBA players. He can utterly dominate a game,  
wire to wire. He is our best player, easily.

Phil

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:21 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> ? So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for
> both teams.?
>     - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog
>
> Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of  
> interest)
> cruised over the importance of the injured Nelson (the heart and  
> soul of
> the Magic) once again being out for an extended period.  Jeff merely  
> states
> that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG  
> matchup.
> Was there ever a doubt?
>
> As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight
> at home against the redcoats and Tories.  Will we make Molly
> Stark a widow?
>
> Final records all seem to come down to key injuries, and the only  
> key one
> we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our starting five in  
> several years
> has been Garnett... not any of our other starters.
>
> Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced)
> appears to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of  
> ourselves
> to compete for another championship.  We are one of the oldest,
> big-mouthed, hated teams in the league.  But then all players think
> all other players mortal but themselves.
>
> GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
> And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
> overall performance.
>
> WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned as
> "Sixth Man of the Year," has been nothing more than an out-of-shape,
> over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional
> game of chucking up threes.  Excess of severity is not the path to
> order but merely the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man
> so in the way in his own house.  Still a great clubhouse guy though,
> according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.
>
> Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging
> 40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.  Ugly.
>
> RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he
> has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
> game to game.  It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.
> And I doubt that will ever change.  He is what he is.  No way do
> I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
> franchise player.
>
> No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not
> lose him, continues to attempt to trade him for Chris Paul, etc.
> only to be turned down.
>
> PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most
> ?full of himself? player in the league.  He means well, if
> he only had a brain or education.  He and our other equally
> arrogant young guys  (Rondo, Big Baby, et al), having been
> part of a championship team, have now bonded against being
> considered 2nd class citizens to our Big Three.
> They remain in permanent feud mode with both our coaches
> and our vets.  Good luck, guys.
>
> Our clubhouse is not exactly filled with good cheer and
> UBUNTU right now,  And it's showing in our games, no
> matter what Doc's post-game spins are, or what the
> conflict-of-interest wimpy beat reporters are willing
> to address.
>
> ?I like where we're at,? Rivers said. ?We're fine.?
>
> And if we're not?
>
> The same old line ?We'll learn from it.?
>
>
> Egg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From pmaymin at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 17:55:30 2009
From: pmaymin at gmail.com (Phil Maymin)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:30 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <84e131670911200934n7e42453fmc605f639f8d3b6fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
	<84e131670911200934n7e42453fmc605f639f8d3b6fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D616A07-12C0-495F-B806-64BC18420459@gmail.com>

PS Jeff is right too-- this is a good litmus test because our  
opponents aren't the other team but what's in our heads. Rondo should  
dominate tonight and every night, no deferring, no demuring. It's his  
team now.

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:34 PM, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:

> boooooooooring
>
> wake me when you write something new
>
> 2009/11/20 eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
>
>> ? So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for
>> both teams.?
>>    - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog
>>
>> Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of  
>> interest)
>> cruised over the importance of the injured Nelson (the heart and  
>> soul of
>> the Magic) once again being out for an extended period.  Jeff merely
>> states
>> that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG  
>> matchup.
>> Was there ever a doubt?
>>
>> As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight
>> at home against the redcoats and Tories.  Will we make Molly
>> Stark a widow?
>>
>> Final records all seem to come down to key injuries, and the only  
>> key one
>> we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our starting five in  
>> several years
>> has been Garnett... not any of our other starters.
>>
>> Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced)
>> appears to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of  
>> ourselves
>> to compete for another championship.  We are one of the oldest,
>> big-mouthed, hated teams in the league.  But then all players think
>> all other players mortal but themselves.
>>
>> GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
>> And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
>> overall performance.
>>
>> WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned as
>> "Sixth Man of the Year," has been nothing more than an out-of-shape,
>> over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional
>> game of chucking up threes.  Excess of severity is not the path to
>> order but merely the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man
>> so in the way in his own house.  Still a great clubhouse guy though,
>> according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.
>>
>> Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging
>> 40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.  Ugly.
>>
>> RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he
>> has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
>> game to game.  It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.
>> And I doubt that will ever change.  He is what he is.  No way do
>> I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
>> franchise player.
>>
>> No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not
>> lose him, continues to attempt to trade him for Chris Paul, etc.
>> only to be turned down.
>>
>> PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most
>> ?full of himself? player in the league.  He means well, if
>> he only had a brain or education.  He and our other equally
>> arrogant young guys  (Rondo, Big Baby, et al), having been
>> part of a championship team, have now bonded against being
>> considered 2nd class citizens to our Big Three.
>> They remain in permanent feud mode with both our coaches
>> and our vets.  Good luck, guys.
>>
>> Our clubhouse is not exactly filled with good cheer and
>> UBUNTU right now,  And it's showing in our games, no
>> matter what Doc's post-game spins are, or what the
>> conflict-of-interest wimpy beat reporters are willing
>> to address.
>>
>> ?I like where we're at,? Rivers said. ?We're fine.?
>>
>> And if we're not?
>>
>> The same old line ?We'll learn from it.?
>>
>>
>> Egg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri Nov 20 18:42:49 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:42:49 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
References: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200911201842.nAKIgqlg002376@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

The Army team called us on the Air Force team too old, slow, and loud at Balad last year (hell we even spotted em the best player the Navy had too)...strangely it's me and my compatriots looking at the championship banner right now (it's nice; red, white and blue with a big CHAMPIONS in bold letters).

I don't really worry if the Celtics look like this in November, Egg. Too early. If we still look like this in April and May - you'll have a good argument.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:22 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: On to Orlando

" So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for?
both teams."
?   - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog

Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of interest) 
cruised over the?importance of?the injured Nelson (the heart and soul of?
the Magic)?once again being out for an extended period.??Jeff merely states?
that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG matchup. ?
Was there ever a doubt?

As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight?
at home against the redcoats and Tories.??Will we make Molly
Stark a widow? ?

Final records all seem to come down to key injuries,?and the only key one 
we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our?starting five in several years 
has been Garnett... not any of our other?starters.

Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced) 
appears?to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of ourselves
to?compete for another championship. ?We are one of the oldest,
big-mouthed, hated teams?in the league.??But then all players think
all other players mortal but themselves.?

GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
overall performance.? ?

WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned?as
"Sixth Man of the Year,"?has been nothing more than an?out-of-shape, 
over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional?
game of chucking up threes. ?Excess of severity is not the path to 
order but merely?the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man 
so in the way in his own house. ?Still a great clubhouse guy though,
according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.

Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging?
40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.? Ugly.?

RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he?
has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
game to game.? It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.??
And I doubt that will ever change.? He is what?he is.? No way do ?
I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
franchise player. ?

No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not 
lose him,?continues to attempt to trade him for?Chris Paul, etc. 
only to be turned down.

PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most?
"full of himself" player in the league.? He means well, if
he only had a brain or education.? He and our other equally?
arrogant young guys? (Rondo, Big Baby, et al), having been?
part of a championship team,?have now bonded against being
considered 2nd class citizens to our Big Three.?
They remain in permanent feud mode with both our coaches?
and our vets. ?Good luck, guys.

Our clubhouse is not exactly filled with good cheer and?
UBUNTU right now,? And it's showing in our games, no
matter what Doc's post-game spins are, or what the?
conflict-of-interest wimpy beat reporters are willing?
to address.

"I like where we're at," Rivers said. "We're fine."?

And if we're not??

The same old line "We'll learn from it."?


Egg
??

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From green00333444 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 20 19:33:13 2009
From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:33:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <FBF3A8FA.226B.44B2.85B8.1DF12A0FDDBB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <343487.65073.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned?as
> "Sixth Man of the Year,"?has been nothing more than
> an?out-of-shape, 
> over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one
> dimensional?
> game of chucking up threes.

Kind of like Dr Evil and Mini-Me

BTW - Has Wallace always been such a poor rebounder?

Charles



      


From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri Nov 20 19:33:30 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:33:30 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <84e131670911200934n7e42453fmc605f639f8d3b6fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7345C519.6DC5.40CA.B6EF.8EFCD88D236F@aol.com>

On Nov 20, 2009, at 12:34:18 PM, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:
wake me when you write something new
---------------------------------
Just checking. Monsieur Jeff, ?to see if you were still reading this list.

Fink out? ?

How about you wake me when you stop putting yourself on your
Celt Blog throne (pro-Celt/ make a few bucks web site) ?while refusing 
to expect or?graciously?handle differing?opinions/adversity? ?

My tone may always be in the key of negative, but each new song I sing 
concerning?our various team?issues is?au courant, ? I'm not still damning 
picks?Orien Green,?Gabe Pruitt, ?Justin Reed, Brandon Hunter, Gerald Green,
Marcus Banks,?Erden Semih, plus injury-ridden Powe and Walker, etc. ??
I was only criticizng who and what we are NOW despite?our lofty payroll.

As Frost said, "Two roads {two egos?} diverged in a wood,?and I --?I took 
the one?less traveled by, ?

And that has made all the difference,"?

Egg

From davidp4660 at cox.net  Fri Nov 20 20:41:02 2009
From: davidp4660 at cox.net (davidp4660 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:41:02 -0500
Subject: On to Orlando
In-Reply-To: <200911201842.nAKIgqlg002376@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20091120154102.XW88P.1055369.imail@eastrmwml42>

Just another attempt at dissing anything Ainge, or Wyc has done.  I still remember a championship banner hanging (#17) because of this team, and would have had a good opportunity last season to repeat, had not injuries pagued us.  This is still the team to go through for the championship as I see it.  Let the negative babble keep coming, as it means nothing.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> The Army team called us on the Air Force team too old, slow, and loud at Balad last year (hell we even spotted em the best player the Navy had too)...strangely it's me and my compatriots looking at the championship banner right now (it's nice; red, white and blue with a big CHAMPIONS in bold letters).
> 
> I don't really worry if the Celtics look like this in November, Egg. Too early. If we still look like this in April and May - you'll have a good argument.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:22 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: On to Orlando
> 
> " So this should be a good early-season litmus test of sorts for?
> both teams."
> ?   - Jeff Clark, Celts Blog
> 
> Good old subtle fair and balanced Jeff (talk about conflict of interest) 
> cruised over the?importance of?the injured Nelson (the heart and soul of?
> the Magic)?once again being out for an extended period.??Jeff merely states?
> that he hopes Rondo can take advantage of the Jason Williams PG matchup. ?
> Was there ever a doubt?
> 
> As bad as we have looked lately, we are 5 1/2 pt. favorites tonight?
> at home against the redcoats and Tories.??Will we make Molly
> Stark a widow? ?
> 
> Final records all seem to come down to key injuries,?and the only key one 
> we lucky leprechauns have suffered among our?starting five in several years 
> has been Garnett... not any of our other?starters.
> 
> Assuming good health, our team (as many national experts voiced) 
> appears?to be too old, too tired, and way too arrogant/full of ourselves
> to?compete for another championship. ?We are one of the oldest,
> big-mouthed, hated teams?in the league.??But then all players think
> all other players mortal but themselves.?
> 
> GARNETT is not your father's Garnett, He will likely never be again.
> And this will continue to make a big difference in our team's
> overall performance.? ?
> 
> WALLACE, assumed by many to be automatically crowned?as
> "Sixth Man of the Year,"?has been nothing more than an?out-of-shape, 
> over the hill bust with an Eddie House type one dimensional?
> game of chucking up threes. ?Excess of severity is not the path to 
> order but merely?the path to the bomb. Rasheed has become a man 
> so in the way in his own house. ?Still a great clubhouse guy though,
> according to Mr. Personality spinmeister Rivers.
> 
> Aside from his 1.8 three-pointers PG, Wallace is averaging?
> 40.6 FG%, 3 RPG, and .70 BPG.? Ugly.?
> 
> RONDO is the same bipolar player/troubled personality he?
> has been all along ... TRICK OR TREAT from quarter to quarter,
> game to game.? It's a head thing, not a talent or contract thing.??
> And I doubt that will ever change.? He is what?he is.? No way do ?
> I trust him with his inner deamons to be our future team leader/
> franchise player. ?
> 
> No wonder Danny, who had no choice but to sign Rondo to not 
> lose him,?continues to attempt to trade him for?Chris Paul, etc. 
> only to be turned down.
> 
> PERK was voted by his league peers last year as the most?
> "full of himsel