From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 00:30:38 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:30:38 -0400
Subject: A Hard Foul Cartoon
Message-ID: <006101c9c9f4$0cf89270$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I couldn't resist especially after the 1st half tonight!  I can hear Tommy
saying those exact words!  We are going to close this thing out tonight if
they will let Perk get close to anyone!!


 <http://www.weei.com/images/larry-johnson-cartoons> Larry Johnson Cartoons

  <http://weei.radiotown.com/emails/general/s.gif> 	

  <http://weei.radiotown.com/emails/general/bg_vertical.jpg> 	

APRIL 30, 2009	


 <http://www.weei.com/images/larry-johnson-cartoons> 


  <http://weei.radiotown.com/emails/general/bg_vertical.jpg>
<http://www.weei.com/whine> 
	
 <http://38pitches.weei.com> 
	
 <http://bigbadblog.weei.com/> 	
  <http://weei.radiotown.com/emails/general/bg_vertical.jpg> 	


 <http://www.weei.com/whine> 


Click
<http://clubhouse.weei.com/ul.asp?0590064031230785908750349303DPM1673> Here
to Unsubscribe
  <http://ort.listenernetwork.com/90064/mt.gif> 
 


WEEI is sending you an advertising or promotional message. 20 Guest Street
Brighton, MA 02135


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 04/30/09
06:01:00



From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 03:23:45 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:23:45 -0400
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
Message-ID: <008101c9ca0c$3ca9f780$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

There was plenty of blame to go around as to why we lost this game and I
have not been critical of Doc much this year since he has been dealt a bad
hand bench wise, but this loss is SQUARELY on HIS shoulders!  Up 8 points
with less than 3 minutes to go and he brings in Tony Allen!  Again!!
NOTHING good happens when that idiot is on the court. NOTHING!  Took Baby
out to "match up" with the Bulls small unit!!  We couldn't score!  It was 2
on 5 offensively!!  Why don't we make the Bulls match up with US when they
go small!  Then Tony Idiot is on the court the first 2 minutes of the first
overtime and guess what, we could NOT score!!!   When Gordon fouled out,
thankfully cause if he hadn't Baby would never gotten back on the court and
not hit those key shots, we got back in the game!  
 
This is the worse loss I can remember since Magic's running hook in the
finals!  This game is not one you come back from in less than 48 hours,
mentally or physically.  I seriously doubt our ability to win a game 7 after
this.  No doubting, not quitting, just realistic.  This team has nothing
left to give.  Hopefully Rondo will shake off all this foul crap that
obviously took him out of his game tonight and come back and be the
difference maker.  Other than assists, he did much of nothing.  His
shooting, his aggressiveness, his confidence were obviously shaken after the
incident.  He better bounce back because Pierce is totally worn out, totally
and I doubt Ray can come back after playing 59 minutes!  
 
Thank you Doc!  Thank you for snatching defeat from the mouth of victory!
Troy

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri May  1 03:27:45 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
Message-ID: <672418.10532.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A great game, one for the ages. Reminded me of the 76 Sun game, but that had a better outcome. Tony's chokes, Perk's bad D on Miller, ?and Pierces stupid foul ended up being the difference.
?
Rondo needs to work on his jumper, teams will give him that shot until he can make it.
?


--- On Thu, 4/30/09, Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net> wrote:


From: Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net>
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 8:23 PM


There was plenty of blame to go around as to why we lost this game and I
have not been critical of Doc much this year since he has been dealt a bad
hand bench wise, but this loss is SQUARELY on HIS shoulders!? Up 8 points
with less than 3 minutes to go and he brings in Tony Allen!? Again!!
NOTHING good happens when that idiot is on the court. NOTHING!? Took Baby
out to "match up" with the Bulls small unit!!? We couldn't score!? It was 2
on 5 offensively!!? Why don't we make the Bulls match up with US when they
go small!? Then Tony Idiot is on the court the first 2 minutes of the first
overtime and guess what, we could NOT score!!!???When Gordon fouled out,
thankfully cause if he hadn't Baby would never gotten back on the court and
not hit those key shots, we got back in the game!? 

This is the worse loss I can remember since Magic's running hook in the
finals!? This game is not one you come back from in less than 48 hours,
mentally or physically.? I seriously doubt our ability to win a game 7 after
this.? No doubting, not quitting, just realistic.? This team has nothing
left to give.? Hopefully Rondo will shake off all this foul crap that
obviously took him out of his game tonight and come back and be the
difference maker.? Other than assists, he did much of nothing.? His
shooting, his aggressiveness, his confidence were obviously shaken after the
incident.? He better bounce back because Pierce is totally worn out, totally
and I doubt Ray can come back after playing 59 minutes!? 

Thank you Doc!? Thank you for snatching defeat from the mouth of victory!
Troy
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 03:38:17 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:38:17 -0400
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
In-Reply-To: <672418.10532.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <672418.10532.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008601c9ca0e$44126960$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

except for individiual, specific, defensive match up plays, Tony Allen
should never be on the court.  Period!  He is not a basketball player, he
never, ever will be!!! He has no basketball IQ, none!  But don't blame Tony
for always choking as you put it,  blame Doc for putting him in those
situations, over & over!!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of John Lyell
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:28 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!

A great game, one for the ages. Reminded me of the 76 Sun game, but that had
a better outcome. Tony's chokes, Perk's bad D on Miller, ?and Pierces stupid
foul ended up being the difference.
?
Rondo needs to work on his jumper, teams will give him that shot until he
can make it.
?


--- On Thu, 4/30/09, Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net> wrote:


From: Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net>
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 8:23 PM


There was plenty of blame to go around as to why we lost this game and I
have not been critical of Doc much this year since he has been dealt a bad
hand bench wise, but this loss is SQUARELY on HIS shoulders!? Up 8 points
with less than 3 minutes to go and he brings in Tony Allen!? Again!!
NOTHING good happens when that idiot is on the court. NOTHING!? Took Baby
out to "match up" with the Bulls small unit!!? We couldn't score!? It was 2
on 5 offensively!!? Why don't we make the Bulls match up with US when they
go small!? Then Tony Idiot is on the court the first 2 minutes of the first
overtime and guess what, we could NOT score!!!???When Gordon fouled out,
thankfully cause if he hadn't Baby would never gotten back on the court and
not hit those key shots, we got back in the game!?

This is the worse loss I can remember since Magic's running hook in the
finals!? This game is not one you come back from in less than 48 hours,
mentally or physically.? I seriously doubt our ability to win a game 7 after
this.? No doubting, not quitting, just realistic.? This team has nothing
left to give.? Hopefully Rondo will shake off all this foul crap that
obviously took him out of his game tonight and come back and be the
difference maker.? Other than assists, he did much of nothing.? His
shooting, his aggressiveness, his confidence were obviously shaken after the
incident.? He better bounce back because Pierce is totally worn out, totally
and I doubt Ray can come back after playing 59 minutes!?

Thank you Doc!? Thank you for snatching defeat from the mouth of victory!
Troy
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 04/30/09
06:01:00



From Eric at ericalbert.net  Fri May  1 04:23:47 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 00:23:47 -0400
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
In-Reply-To: <008101c9ca0c$3ca9f780$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
References: <008101c9ca0c$3ca9f780$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <20090501042355.2F7EDE19590@ignite.igtc.com>


>This is the worse loss I can remember since Magic's running hook in the
>finals!  This game is not one you come back from in less than 48 hours,
>mentally or physically.  I seriously doubt our ability to win a game 7 after
>this.

Gosh. I know it was a long game, but stay calm. There's no need to panic. These are obviously two evenly-matched teams. A triple overtime game won by one point is as close as you can get.

Plenty of mistakes by both sides and plenty of amazing plays. We didn't blow it. Someone has to win the game and someone has to lose. Why complain after such a show?

We've played six games and have won three. Now we're going back home for a Game 7. Just like last year. That worked out OK.

-- Eric


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 04:36:09 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 00:36:09 -0400
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
In-Reply-To: <20090501042355.2F7EDE19590@ignite.igtc.com>
References: <008101c9ca0c$3ca9f780$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
	<20090501042355.2F7EDE19590@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <009c01c9ca16$59bd9de0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

This is nothing like last year!  I am complaining because our guys gave
everything they had, everything and then Doc gave it away!  I am complaining
because our guys are avg. near 50 minutes a game with no bench!  I am
complaining because if you looked at Pierce after he fouled out, you could
see he had NOTHING left to give!  Will & determination can only go so far
until you physically & mentally run out of energy.  I fear we just hit that
point.  No sir, this is NOTHING like last year!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Eric Albert
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 12:24 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!


>This is the worse loss I can remember since Magic's running hook in the
>finals!  This game is not one you come back from in less than 48 hours,
>mentally or physically.  I seriously doubt our ability to win a game 7
>after this.

Gosh. I know it was a long game, but stay calm. There's no need to panic.
These are obviously two evenly-matched teams. A triple overtime game won by
one point is as close as you can get.

Plenty of mistakes by both sides and plenty of amazing plays. We didn't blow
it. Someone has to win the game and someone has to lose. Why complain after
such a show?

We've played six games and have won three. Now we're going back home for a
Game 7. Just like last year. That worked out OK.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 04/30/09
06:01:00



From Douglas342 at aol.com  Fri May  1 04:49:57 2009
From: Douglas342 at aol.com (Douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 00:49:57 EDT
Subject: Crushing Loss, Thank You Doc!
Message-ID: <ca3.4e8b8cc3.372bd975@aol.com>

I wonder if the winner of this series has a prayer against Orlando.   How 
much can either team have left in the tank?  I will miss the weekend  game 
due to a prior commitment (I think - depends on timing), but I see Game  Seven 
being just as close as five of the prior six.  I am NOT worried about  
having nothing left.  Ray and Paul and Rondo will NOT lay down and roll  over.
 
And (even though I have said it many times before) I have to repeat that my 
 last game at Boston Garden was the triple OT game with Phoenix in  1976.
**************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in 
your area. Start now! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26
src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html)

From BDodgers at aol.com  Fri May  1 14:31:50 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:31:50 EDT
Subject: Peterson: Leon Powe is at his best when fighting adversity
Message-ID: <c31.55d9f6fb.372c61d6@aol.com>

 
Peterson: Leon Powe is at  his best when fighting adversity
_By Gary Peterson
Staff columnist_ (mailto:gpeterson at cctimes.com?subject=Inside Bay Area: 
Peterson: Leon Powe is at his best when fighting adversity) 
 



YOU COULD CONSIDER the plight of Leon Powe from a  number of perspectives, 
starting with: Even when he catches a break, the poor  fellow can't hold 
onto it. 
Powe, who overcame a hardscrabble childhood and  reconstructive knee 
surgery to land a basketball scholarship at Cal, and who  overcame two more major 
knee surgeries in college to forge an NBA career with  the Boston Celtics, 
suffered yet another devastating knee injury in a playoff  game Monday night. 
Diagnosis: torn ACL. Recommended course of action: one more reconstructive  
procedure on his left knee. In a contract year, no less. 
Overcome, then be overcome. That seems to be Powe's life cycle, pulled from 
 the pages of Sisyphus. That's one way to look at it, anyway. 
Here's another: 
No matter what happens after his next surgery, at least he got something 
out  of the deal. 
He was able to deliver himself from some of the least savory living  
conditions Oakland has to offer. He spent three years at a world-class  
university. In his second season with the Celtics, he won an NBA championship  ring. 
That's a lot of house money. Not to mention his actual salary, nearly $2  
million during his three seasons in Boston. That would have been more than  
enough to fulfill his dream of buying his mother a new house in a nice  
neighborhood ? if only she'd lived to see the day. 
But the best way to look at the plight of Leon Powe is from his point of  
view. Because to do otherwise is to focus on peripheral concerns.  
And if Powe had done that, he'd likely still be standing at the corner of  
Nowhere and Trouble with an empty stomach and a hole in his soul. 
Instead, as he told our Jeff Faraudo on Wednesday, "I'm doing just fine. I  
know what I have to do." 
He knows what's in store, the pain, the tedious rehab, the empty feeling of 
 watching the game go on without you. Just a guess ? his having been 
through it  twice doesn't make it any less daunting. 
But Powe also understands what a lot of us do not, that it's not about the  
adversity. It's about how you handle the adversity. 
You may be familiar with his roll call of unthinkably bad breaks, but it  
bears reviewing here. He was 2 when he, his mother and his infant brother, 
Tim,  were abandoned by his father. He was 7 when he came home from school one 
day to  find Tim had accidentally burned down the duplex in which his 
family was  living. 
Then came move after move, nearly three dozen of them. Powe's mother, 
Connie,  had trouble with substance abuse and the law. She died when Leon was 17, 
just a  few days before he led Oakland Tech's basketball team into the 
state  championship game. 
There's plenty more, but those are the lowlights. Then the knee  
reconstructions began piling up. That's a lot of chances to give up the fight,  if 
that's the way you roll. 
"In my family," Powe told the New York Times in 2005, "we don't give up,  
especially when it gets tough. If you give up, where you gonna go? And I 
wanted  to go to the top." 
Adversity is like that. It makes you think. It forces you to make 
decisions,  to choose how you want to handle things and who you want to be. Are you a 
 fighter? A quitter? A leader? A follower? A fatalist? A pragmatist? 
Powe has made some spectacular choices. This hasn't escaped the notice of  
Celtics coach Doc Rivers. 
"That's just a tough injury for a kid who has done everything right," 
Rivers  said the day after Powe was hurt. "It just makes no sense. I guess bad 
things  happen to good people sometimes." 
Interestingly enough, sometimes that's when good people are at their  best.

**************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in 
your area. Start now! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26
src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html)

From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri May  1 14:37:27 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:37:27 -0400
Subject: Bummed
Message-ID: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>

As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk that 
we were?always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from becoming 
an?ordinary .500 team? ?

I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds,? has demonstrated great?
heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.? But then I remind myself?
that? we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff team,?
the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed Detroit?
lost its heart after the Billups trade.) ?

So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness??
The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried 
Baby Bulls?

I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this series
4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.? He sure is socially, but on court,?
Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced,?
hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.

On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in?
Boston. ?I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is 
to resume. ?But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it just?might be because 
Danny never?put together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that?
many?here swore we had this season. ?

Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett?and Powe) have literally rendered?
our already weak bench useless?while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries 
(including their best player?Deng) has not.? Chicago benchees Hinrich 
and Miller have far outdone?our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury,
Moore, Walker, etc.? Don?t?blame Doc?or the Zebras or our two injuries
for this bummer series.?Whose fault is?this but Danny?s for re-signing 
brain dead T. Allen and?one-dimensional?House as our two premier
free agents ... and then picking up?the inferior/useless?Moore and 
Marbury thinking they could be the answer. ?

ONE (Championship) AND DONE? ?

Egg
?

From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Fri May  1 14:44:37 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:44:37 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
References: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W46304B0FF531AA294537ECA56D0@phx.gbl>


You gotta love Egg. Now she is at the point where the fact that we only won ONE championship is a reason for complaint. Unbelievable. There's so many teams out there that have never won ANY championships. We have 17, including one 10 months ago, but I guess that doesn't matter.

 

I think we heard these same complaints last year when we struggled with Atlanta. How'd that work out again? And you cannot compare Deng to KG. You are talking about losing a role player, as opposed to losing the player that makes the whole team go. Let's take Lebron away from Cleveland and see how they do. I wonder if Egg would then complain about how bad a bench Cleveland had, because believe me, without Lebron, that Cleveland team is .500 at best.
 
> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:27 -0400
> Subject: Bummed
> From: eggcentric at aol.com
> To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> 
> As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk that 
> we were always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from becoming 
> an ordinary .500 team?  
> 
> I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds,  has demonstrated great 
> heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.  But then I remind myself 
> that  we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff team, 
> the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed Detroit 
> lost its heart after the Billups trade.)  
> 
> So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness? 
> The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried 
> Baby Bulls?
> 
> I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this series
> 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.  He sure is socially, but on court, 
> Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced, 
> hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> 
> On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in 
> Boston.  I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is 
> to resume.  But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it just might be because 
> Danny never put together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that 
> many here swore we had this season.  
> 
> Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett and Powe) have literally rendered 
> our already weak bench useless while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries 
> (including their best player Deng) has not.  Chicago benchees Hinrich 
> and Miller have far outdone our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury,
> Moore, Walker, etc.  Don?t blame Doc or the Zebras or our two injuries
> for this bummer series. Whose fault is this but Danny?s for re-signing 
> brain dead T. Allen and one-dimensional House as our two premier
> free agents ... and then picking up the inferior/useless Moore and 
> Marbury thinking they could be the answer.  
> 
> ONE (Championship) AND DONE?  
> 
> Egg
>  
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009

From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Fri May  1 14:55:51 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:55:51 -0300
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W46304B0FF531AA294537ECA56D0@phx.gbl>
References: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
	<BAY111-W46304B0FF531AA294537ECA56D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W75E7DEB7F5A2850308ECBD96D0@phx.gbl>


There should be a post from Ray coming any second now.

 

Personally, I am satisfied with Perk's progress.  He has turned a corner and now has to work on knowing when to challenge vs not challenge the shot.  Offensively, his jump hook from the paint has improved tremendously, enough so that it must now be respected.  It wouldn't surprise me to see him go off for 20/15 tomorrow night.

 

Cecil


 
> From: shizzjr at hotmail.com
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:44:37 -0400
> 
> 
> You gotta love Egg. Now she is at the point where the fact that we only won ONE championship is a reason for complaint. Unbelievable. There's so many teams out there that have never won ANY championships. We have 17, including one 10 months ago, but I guess that doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we heard these same complaints last year when we struggled with Atlanta. How'd that work out again? And you cannot compare Deng to KG. You are talking about losing a role player, as opposed to losing the player that makes the whole team go. Let's take Lebron away from Cleveland and see how they do. I wonder if Egg would then complain about how bad a bench Cleveland had, because believe me, without Lebron, that Cleveland team is .500 at best.
> 
> > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:27 -0400
> > Subject: Bummed
> > From: eggcentric at aol.com
> > To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> > 
> > As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk that 
> > we were always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from becoming 
> > an ordinary .500 team? 
> > 
> > I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds, has demonstrated great 
> > heart and mental toughness in this playoff series. But then I remind myself 
> > that we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff team, 
> > the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed Detroit 
> > lost its heart after the Billups trade.) 
> > 
> > So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness? 
> > The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried 
> > Baby Bulls?
> > 
> > I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this series
> > 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola. He sure is socially, but on court, 
> > Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced, 
> > hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> > 
> > On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in 
> > Boston. I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is 
> > to resume. But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it just might be because 
> > Danny never put together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that 
> > many here swore we had this season. 
> > 
> > Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett and Powe) have literally rendered 
> > our already weak bench useless while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries 
> > (including their best player Deng) has not. Chicago benchees Hinrich 
> > and Miller have far outdone our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury,
> > Moore, Walker, etc. Don?t blame Doc or the Zebras or our two injuries
> > for this bummer series. Whose fault is this but Danny?s for re-signing 
> > brain dead T. Allen and one-dimensional House as our two premier
> > free agents ... and then picking up the inferior/useless Moore and 
> > Marbury thinking they could be the answer. 
> > 
> > ONE (Championship) AND DONE? 
> > 
> > Egg
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 15:02:17 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:02:17 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W46304B0FF531AA294537ECA56D0@phx.gbl>
References: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
	<BAY111-W46304B0FF531AA294537ECA56D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200905011502.n41F2Nvn023163@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Isn't the heart of this discussion not the periphery bandying about barbs at players, owners, GMs, coaches, each other et al, but within the very makeup of the game itself? In other words - compared to other "games" is basketball more reliant or less reliant upon a single star then any other "team" sport?

Injuries are what they are to overuse a tired phrase. They happen - there ain't a damn thing we or most time the team in all its forms can do about them. Timing is the key. Injured early and hopes of even making the playoffs is mott. Injured late and your weaknesses without said player are exposed.

I do think Basketball, as currently constructed is too reliant upon single entities. Small rosters, an existing, yet still developing minor league system, a caste construct in its application of the rules in respect to refereeing, a salary cap that invokes a tax upon teams that go above it, different applications of ownership moneies and other necessary support, and a myriad of other, some unique others not so much, aspects that make the NBA system ultrareliant upon one person being the difference between championship glory and also-ran status of a first round exit.

Take for example the loss of A-Rod currently by the Yankees. Has that almost completely altered their entire system (some might say positively given another round of steriod talk but let's leave that out for now focusing on purely his physical attributes) and changed the very nature in which they play? No, not in the least. Another example given - did the removal of Ty Law - arguably one of the most influential defenders on the Patriots, change their entire method of play? Did it alter the coaches approach or how they applied strategy? Were the players roles so drastically altered as Pierce's has been from primary defender and sometime offensive threat to full time both ends player? One step further just last year in replacement of Tom Brady with Matt Cassel?

NBA basketball is unique in its reliance upon a single star. In all aspects - removal of a single star player in almost every case is a killing blow to that team for their future play during that time period. In every other sport, while a drop does indeed occur - usually the team can maintain most of it's ability to succeed (with exceptions of course...the Dan Marino less Dolphins or Peyton Manningless Colts are two examples) because of the structure of the very game itself is so different and in many ways more diverse.

Wow...got long winded there huh?

Like others I blame you for that Egg :)

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Niles
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:45 AM
To: Celtics List
Subject: RE: Bummed


You gotta love Egg. Now she is at the point where the fact that we only won ONE championship is a reason for complaint. Unbelievable. There's so many teams out there that have never won ANY championships. We have 17, including one 10 months ago, but I guess that doesn't matter.

 

I think we heard these same complaints last year when we struggled with Atlanta. How'd that work out again? And you cannot compare Deng to KG. You are talking about losing a role player, as opposed to losing the player that makes the whole team go. Let's take Lebron away from Cleveland and see how they do. I wonder if Egg would then complain about how bad a bench Cleveland had, because believe me, without Lebron, that Cleveland team is .500 at best.
 
> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:27 -0400
> Subject: Bummed
> From: eggcentric at aol.com
> To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> 
> As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk that 
> we were always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from becoming 
> an ordinary .500 team?  
> 
> I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds,  has demonstrated great 
> heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.  But then I remind myself 
> that  we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff team, 
> the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed Detroit 
> lost its heart after the Billups trade.)  
> 
> So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness? 
> The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried 
> Baby Bulls?
> 
> I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this series
> 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.  He sure is socially, but on court, 
> Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced, 
> hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> 
> On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in 
> Boston.  I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is 
> to resume.  But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it just might be because 
> Danny never put together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that 
> many here swore we had this season.  
> 
> Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett and Powe) have literally rendered 
> our already weak bench useless while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries 
> (including their best player Deng) has not.  Chicago benchees Hinrich 
> and Miller have far outdone our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury,
> Moore, Walker, etc.  Don?t blame Doc or the Zebras or our two injuries
> for this bummer series. Whose fault is this but Danny?s for re-signing 
> brain dead T. Allen and one-dimensional House as our two premier
> free agents ... and then picking up the inferior/useless Moore and 
> Marbury thinking they could be the answer.  
> 
> ONE (Championship) AND DONE?  
> 
> Egg
>  
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail(r) has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 15:13:41 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
Message-ID: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet you he would have swished that sweet jumper.

Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the game. 

Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.  


      


From sroth at ufpi.com  Fri May  1 15:22:17 2009
From: sroth at ufpi.com (Shawn Roth)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:22:17 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <78D6C48C1D503E498DA284E14F0E67E604A9A6C1@GRCLUEVR01.corp.ad.ufpi.com>

You know what I found funny...is that 15 other times in the series
Pierce turns the ball over and doesn't hustle back to defend the
ball...but when he has 5 fouls late in triple OT he decides it is a good
time to hustle back...

But...Paul is a great player and he will be back with a big game in game
7.

Shawn (lurker)

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
Behalf Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Doc or Pierce?


Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At
the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray
was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point line. All
Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet you he
would have swished that sweet jumper.

Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting
Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he
makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain and most skilled
offensive player - get tossed from the game. 

Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.  


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From keltsfan at comcast.net  Fri May  1 15:36:54 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:36:54 -0700
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
References: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006101c9ca72$a7fe1960$f7fa4c20$@net>

Egg,

The Bulls went 16-11 after acquiring Miller and Salmons including 5-1 in
their last 6 games of the regular season and I think this is the record that
better reflects the current makeup of the team.  

It is precisely because the Celtics bench has been abysmal that the heart
and mental toughness of the team, specifically the starters, is remarkable.
For Perkins to be playing the minutes he is as the only legitimate big,
going against Noah and an extremely physical and savvy Miller and to be
displaying the intensity at the end of games as he does at the beginning is
remarkable - a testament to his desire to succeed and conditioning. 

For Ray Allen to run around chasing Ben Gordon game after game and then drop
51 and nail big shot after big shot after big shot in these playoffs is
amazing as is Rondo's intensity and performance especially given the minutes
he's playing.   

That's not to take away from the Bulls desire and mental toughness.  

Ravi



> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of
> eggcentric
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 7:37 AM
> To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> Subject: Bummed
> 
> As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk
that
> we were?always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from becoming
> an?ordinary .500 team?
> 
> I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds,? has demonstrated
great
> heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.? But then I remind
myself
> that? we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff
team,
> the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed Detroit
> lost its heart after the Billups trade.)
> 
> So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness?
> The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried
> Baby Bulls?
> 
> I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this
series
> 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.? He sure is socially, but on
court,
> Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced,
> hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> 
> On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in
> Boston. ?I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is
> to resume. ?But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it just?might be because
> Danny never?put together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that
> many?here swore we had this season.
> 
> Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett?and Powe) have literally rendered
> our already weak bench useless?while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries
> (including their best player?Deng) has not.? Chicago benchees Hinrich
> and Miller have far outdone?our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury,
> Moore, Walker, etc.? Don?t?blame Doc?or the Zebras or our two injuries
> for this bummer series.?Whose fault is?this but Danny?s for re-signing
> brain dead T. Allen and?one-dimensional?House as our two premier
> free agents ... and then picking up?the inferior/useless?Moore and
> Marbury thinking they could be the answer.
> 
> ONE (Championship) AND DONE?
> 
> Egg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From keltsfan at comcast.net  Fri May  1 15:44:36 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:44:36 -0700
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>

Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a few mental
mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking him off the
dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his transition defense
has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He doesn't appear to
be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is hurt.  

Ravi




> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter
> Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> 
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At
the end of the first OT,
> Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was right behind him,
unguarded, just
> beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the
ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> 
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting Noah
get two points,
> you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a three-point
play, and you - your
> team's captain and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the
game.
> 
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri May  1 16:15:10 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 12:15:10 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011502.n41F2Nvn023163@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <CB5A34BD.1484.4AF2.A3D9.146DD42DDF3D@aol.com>


On May 1, 2009, at 11:02:17 AM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

?In other words - compared to other "games" is basketball more
reliant or less reliant upon a single star then any other "team" sport?
----------

How many "true stars" are there in the NBA - Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Wade, Dwight Howard, 
Duncan, Chris Paul? Still, secondary players, role players and bench players do countin the playoffs.

Only because we are Celt fans do we feel that injuries are unique to the Celtics.
If you compare our key injuries to those of other teams, that's a long post for?another day. ?
Key injured players who quickly come to mind are?Ginobili, Jameer Nelson, Brand, 
Al Jefferson ,Bynum, ?Amare Stoudemire, Redd, Arenas, McGrady, Dunleavy. ?
Plus many other key players (Granger,?Baron Davis, Deng, Bogut, Iverson, etc.) 
who?missed dozens of games or?essentially?played through pain when they did play. ?
Heck,?the Hornets' top five players have all been ailing in the playoffs.

The past several years we have been very,very lucky avoiding injuries. ?This year 
we lost Garnet, and that certainly has been a biggie. ?But still our other four?starters
played:?

Pierce (81 games)?
Ray Allen (79 games)?
Rondo (80 games)
Perk(76 games)?
Big Baby?(76 games) ?

I consider that pretty fortunate.

Egg


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 16:37:28 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:37:28 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
References: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c9ca7b$1e281020$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I agree with a lot of what you said Egg, Danny has to take a big, big chunk
of the blame for as I said recently "dealing Doc a bad hand" bench wise.
BUT, we still win this series/game last night if Doc does NOT play Tony
Allen!  Everytime the idiot gets on the court, bad, bad things happen!  He
is not a lock down defender Ben Gordon can attest to that, and the Bulls/any
team would more than beg him to have the ball in his hands at a crucial
time.  So Danny signed Tony Idiot, but Doc Idiot is the one who keeps
putting him out there to screw up!!

I will post more on Danny's free agent grading when the playoffs are over.
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of eggcentric
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:37 AM
To: Celtics at IGTC.com
Subject: Bummed

As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who woulda thunk
that we were?always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury away from
becoming an?ordinary .500 team? ?

I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all odds,? has demonstrated
great heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.? But then I remind
myself that? we have been struggling against arguably the weakest ED playoff
team, the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th seed
Detroit lost its heart after the Billups trade.) ?

So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental toughness? The World
Champions or the younger, less-experienced, less-salaried Baby Bulls?

I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily win this series
4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.? He sure is socially, but on
court, Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the grim-faced,
hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.

On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7 in Boston. ?I?m
sure hoping we do, for the only way to resumption is to resume. ?But if
tomorrow's sun never rises, it just?might be because Danny never?put
together the alleged strong bench of my hopes and that many?here swore we
had this season. ?

Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett?and Powe) have literally rendered our
already weak bench useless?while the Bulls 2 of 15 player injuries
(including their best player?Deng) has not.? Chicago benchees Hinrich and
Miller have far outdone?our useless Scal, House, T. Allen, Marbury, Moore,
Walker, etc.? Don?t?blame Doc?or the Zebras or our two injuries for this
bummer series.?Whose fault is?this but Danny?s for re-signing brain dead T.
Allen and?one-dimensional?House as our two premier free agents ... and then
picking up?the inferior/useless?Moore and Marbury thinking they could be the
answer. ?

ONE (Championship) AND DONE? ?

Egg
?
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00



From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 16:37:08 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:37:08 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>
Message-ID: <200905011637.n41GbC5V014056@ares.afrc.af.mil>

I see your speculation, but in this case I'll beg to differ in that he's been asked to go back to "do everything Pierce" versus the "more focused on D" Pierce of last year. This has brought back 2002 Pierce (of "Me and Twan" days) in regards to shouldering too much of the burden which in turn leads to said mental mistakes and lapses in focus.  Reason #4,256,781 why Jordan was perhaps the greatest? He was the only player I remember that could focus 100% - offense, defense, and teamleader without any significant drop off in performance whatsoever - whether it was pre-season, in-season or post-season. It is a rare, rare gift.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of keltsfan
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:45 AM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?

Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a few mental
mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking him off the
dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his transition defense
has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He doesn't appear to
be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is hurt.  

Ravi




> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter
> Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> 
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At
the end of the first OT,
> Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was right behind him,
unguarded, just
> beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the
ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> 
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting Noah
get two points,
> you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a three-point
play, and you - your
> team's captain and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the
game.
> 
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 16:44:41 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:44:41 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c9ca7c$1fdf4090$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

You are totally correct, no excuse from Pierce except that he is totally
spent, physically and emotionally.  AND I would argue that most of those
turnovers he had were called plays from the bench.  You know, the hand it
off to Pierce at the top of the key play that we use 10 times every game.
Except that last night, Pierce just didn't have it to give, Doc should have
seen that like the rest of us.  BUT, that never happens if Tony Idiot isn't
subbed for Baby right before the end of regulation, I believe that with all
my Celtic heart!  If Baby stays on the court we win this by 6-8 points in
regulation but Doc always "reacts" instead of making the other team "react"
to us. Even the announcers said over & over that the Bulls small guys are
better than our small guys.  That is not a good match up for us, so Doc,
just DON'T DO IT!!  If you guys can't tell, I am still pretty raw over this
loss!!!!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Doc or Pierce?


Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At the
end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was
right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point line. All Paul had
to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet you he would have
swished that sweet jumper.

Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting Noah
get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a
three-point play, and you - your team's captain and most skilled offensive
player - get tossed from the game.

Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00



From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Fri May  1 16:50:13 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:50:13 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <200905011637.n41GbC5V014056@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>
	<200905011637.n41GbC5V014056@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <00d101c9ca7c$e5a34dd0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

I am not making excuses for Paul at all, he hurt us bad last night with his
turnovers, but Paul is just totally spent, I just don't think he has much
more to give right now.  He has given us his all, not much more he can give.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 12:37 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?

I see your speculation, but in this case I'll beg to differ in that he's
been asked to go back to "do everything Pierce" versus the "more focused on
D" Pierce of last year. This has brought back 2002 Pierce (of "Me and Twan"
days) in regards to shouldering too much of the burden which in turn leads
to said mental mistakes and lapses in focus.  Reason #4,256,781 why Jordan
was perhaps the greatest? He was the only player I remember that could focus
100% - offense, defense, and teamleader without any significant drop off in
performance whatsoever - whether it was pre-season, in-season or
post-season. It is a rare, rare gift.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of keltsfan
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:45 AM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?

Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a few mental
mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking him off the
dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his transition defense
has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He doesn't appear to
be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is hurt.

Ravi




> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
> Behalf
Of Peter
> Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
>
>
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain.
> At
the end of the first OT,
> Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was right behind him,
unguarded, just
> beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the
ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
>
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting
> Noah
get two points,
> you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a three-point
play, and you - your
> team's captain and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the
game.
>
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00



From Douglas342 at aol.com  Fri May  1 17:02:12 2009
From: Douglas342 at aol.com (Douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:02:12 EDT
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
Message-ID: <bc0.53911c9c.372c8514@aol.com>

I'm also a bit disappointed (maybe more than a bit) in Marbury.  He  seems 
terrified at the idea of shooting the ball.  I don't expect much from  him, 
but more than this would be nice.
 
And after three or four years of wondering about the Tony Allen experiment, 
 I'm ready to call it a day and wish him well elsewhere.
 
Doesn't this really leave us our usual starting five plus Davis as our core 
 group?  Tony isn't a part of the future, nor are Moore and House and  
Marbury and Scal.  Powe may have played his last game for us (or for anyone  
else.)  Walker may be a keeper, but who knows?
 
Like I said, I'd love to see a win in game 7, and if after that they flame  
out against Orlando, so be it.  They really should call tomorrow Game  
Eight, since they have played 35 of its 48 minutes already.  Win or lose,  it's 
been a great series.
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 17:10:46 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <00d001c9ca7c$1fdf4090$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <300893.82933.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I've seen this scapegoating of TA all morning across the Internet and, to put it nicely, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

To explain: 

We were up 99-91 with Rondo at the line.  He missed both.  Gordon replaced Thomas and Chicago goes small.  Next possession Rose gets a layup.  We come down, dick around on offense, take a poor shot at the end of the shot clock (miss by Rondo) and the Bulls come down, give the ball to Salmons (who is being guarded by Baby, since the Bulls went small), and he gets to the rim easily and gets the And-1.  It's now 99-96 (after the free throw) and Doc matches up with Chicago's small lineup, inserting TA for Baby.  Next possession we get a nice runner by Ray to put us up 101-96 and then force a miss by Salmons on the other end.  As happened before, we dick around on offense and don't start doing anything until there are less than 10 seconds left on the shot clock--eventually the ball finds its way to TA and he's FORCED to take a shot or get a turnover.  He's gets it on the rim but misses.  The Bulls come down and Perk loses Miller at the top of the key.  Miller
 gets the ball and drains a 3 pointer.  The score is now 101-99.  We get the ball back, come down, dick around on offense AGAIN, and AGAIN TA gets the ball as the shot clock is nearing zero and does all he can to just get the ball on the rim.  He misses and the Bulls come down, find Brad Miller, and he waltzes to the rim for the tying layup.  

SO, with that refresher of what actually happened, what could we have done better?  Well, not dick around on offense would be a good place to start.  Rondo/Pierce/Ray Allen all share the blame in those last 2 possessions.  They were being passive.  Rondo especially should have kept the ball in his hands and made sure the ball got to a scorer at the right time.  What else could we have done?  Um, well, we could have guarded Miller at the 3 point line and not let him drive uncontested to the hoop to tie the game.  Those were two Perkins' errors right there.  

All TA did was play good defense and do his best when bad offensive possessions broke down in the last seconds of the shot clock.  To blame him for the loss is the height of Internet stupidity.  There's plenty of blame to go around for this one and TA is nowhere near the top of the list.  

Ryan  

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net> wrote:

> From: Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net>
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 11:44 AM
> You are totally correct, no excuse from Pierce except that
> he is totally
> spent, physically and emotionally.  AND I would argue that
> most of those
> turnovers he had were called plays from the bench.  You
> know, the hand it
> off to Pierce at the top of the key play that we use 10
> times every game.
> Except that last night, Pierce just didn't have it to
> give, Doc should have
> seen that like the rest of us.  BUT, that never happens if
> Tony Idiot isn't
> subbed for Baby right before the end of regulation, I
> believe that with all
> my Celtic heart!  If Baby stays on the court we win this by
> 6-8 points in
> regulation but Doc always "reacts" instead of
> making the other team "react"
> to us. Even the announcers said over & over that the
> Bulls small guys are
> better than our small guys.  That is not a good match up
> for us, so Doc,
> just DON'T DO IT!!  If you guys can't tell, I am
> still pretty raw over this
> loss!!!!  Troy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Peter Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> 
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on
> the captain. At the
> end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the
> key - Ray was
> right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point
> line. All Paul had
> to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> you he would have
> swished that sweet jumper.
> 
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so
> instead of letting Noah
> get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller
> than you, he makes a
> three-point play, and you - your team's captain and
> most skilled offensive
> player - get tossed from the game.
> 
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release
> Date: 05/01/09
> 06:17:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 17:12:44 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:12:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>
Message-ID: <219266.60684.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Doc said 4 players will need surgery after the season to clean up some lingering injuries.  I expect Pierce to be one of them.

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:44 AM
> Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a
> few mental
> mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking
> him off the
> dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his
> transition defense
> has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He
> doesn't appear to
> be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is
> hurt.  
> 
> Ravi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> Of Peter
> > Delevett
> > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> > 
> > 
> > Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach
> or on the captain. At
> the end of the first OT,
> > Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was
> right behind him,
> unguarded, just
> > beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was
> literally hand the
> ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> > you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> > 
> > Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so
> instead of letting Noah
> get two points,
> > you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he
> makes a three-point
> play, and you - your
> > team's captain and most skilled offensive player -
> get tossed from the
> game.
> > 
> > Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From keltsfan at comcast.net  Fri May  1 17:15:09 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:15:09 -0700
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <200905011637.n41GbC5V014056@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<006201c9ca73$bb68ff00$323afd00$@net>
	<200905011637.n41GbC5V014056@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <008a01c9ca80$61de19e0$259a4da0$@net>

Yeah, I'm seeing glimpses of that Pierce.  Didn't want to go there
but....no, I'm not going there.

Jordan special in that way for sure.  To a lesser extent Duncan is another
as is Garnett in terms of ability to commit and execute against all three at
the same time, although that latter two don't control the ball like Jordan
did. Lebron James, by the time he's done, may surpass them all with respect
to this very rare skill set.  




> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of
> Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:37 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> I see your speculation, but in this case I'll beg to differ in that he's
been asked to go back to
> "do everything Pierce" versus the "more focused on D" Pierce of last year.
This has brought
> back 2002 Pierce (of "Me and Twan" days) in regards to shouldering too
much of the
> burden which in turn leads to said mental mistakes and lapses in focus.
Reason #4,256,781
> why Jordan was perhaps the greatest? He was the only player I remember
that could focus
> 100% - offense, defense, and teamleader without any significant drop off
in performance
> whatsoever - whether it was pre-season, in-season or post-season. It is a
rare, rare gift.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of keltsfan
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a few mental
> mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking him off the
> dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his transition defense
> has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He doesn't appear
to
> be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is hurt.
> 
> Ravi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
Behalf
> Of Peter
> > Delevett
> > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> >
> >
> > Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. At
> the end of the first OT,
> > Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was right behind him,
> unguarded, just
> > beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the
> ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> > you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> >
> > Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting
Noah
> get two points,
> > you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he makes a three-point
> play, and you - your
> > team's captain and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the
> game.
> >
> > Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 17:16:00 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <78D6C48C1D503E498DA284E14F0E67E604A9A6C1@GRCLUEVR01.corp.ad.ufpi.com>
Message-ID: <492262.14284.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


That foul was dumb and Pierce should have pulled back...but who else thought it really shouldn't have been called a foul to begin with?  There were getting away with bloody murder throughout overtime #3 and that last foul on Pierce was pretty cheap.  And later, when Rondo got his shot rejected by Rose, who else noticed that Hinrich tackled Rondo just as he was about to regain control of the ball?  The officials were good for the most part last night, and infinitely better than any other officials in this series, but those two calls kind of irked me.  That's the 2nd time Hinrich has tackled Rondo in end of the game situations and not been called for it (Game 1 being the other time).

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Shawn Roth <sroth at ufpi.com> wrote:

> From: Shawn Roth <sroth at ufpi.com>
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:22 AM
> You know what I found funny...is that 15 other times in the
> series
> Pierce turns the ball over and doesn't hustle back to
> defend the
> ball...but when he has 5 fouls late in triple OT he decides
> it is a good
> time to hustle back...
> 
> But...Paul is a great player and he will be back with a big
> game in game
> 7.
> 
> Shawn (lurker)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
> Behalf Of Peter Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> 
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on
> the captain. At
> the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of
> the key - Ray
> was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the
> three-point line. All
> Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and
> I'll bet you he
> would have swished that sweet jumper.
> 
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so
> instead of letting
> Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches
> taller than you, he
> makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain
> and most skilled
> offensive player - get tossed from the game. 
> 
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.  
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From keltsfan at comcast.net  Fri May  1 17:23:18 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:23:18 -0700
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <bc0.53911c9c.372c8514@aol.com>
References: <bc0.53911c9c.372c8514@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c9ca81$85099740$8f1cc5c0$@net>

Tony Allen plays NBA basketball as if he were playing on the streets of
Chicago.  He's gone if the Celtics can find a taker.  Giddens, Walker, and
Pruitt will have the opportunity to slide into that slot next season. 

Honestly, if they get by Chicago I don't see them flaming out against
Orlando.  They match up well against the Magic. 

Ravi




> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of
> Douglas342 at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:02 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Doc or Pierce?
> 
> I'm also a bit disappointed (maybe more than a bit) in Marbury.  He  seems
> terrified at the idea of shooting the ball.  I don't expect much from
him,
> but more than this would be nice.
> 
> And after three or four years of wondering about the Tony Allen
experiment,
>  I'm ready to call it a day and wish him well elsewhere.
> 
> Doesn't this really leave us our usual starting five plus Davis as our
core
>  group?  Tony isn't a part of the future, nor are Moore and House and
> Marbury and Scal.  Powe may have played his last game for us (or for
anyone
> else.)  Walker may be a keeper, but who knows?
> 
> Like I said, I'd love to see a win in game 7, and if after that they flame
> out against Orlando, so be it.  They really should call tomorrow Game
> Eight, since they have played 35 of its 48 minutes already.  Win or lose,
it's
> been a great series.
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 17:25:52 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <74634E04.685F.40EE.8A61.7EACCD16C71A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <333800.28164.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Lots to dispute here Egg.  First, without KG, it doesn't matter what we do in free agency.  So, going cheap and then losing KG actually works out in the long run.  I assume we'll spend this summer and hopefully have a healthy KG for the stretch run next season.  It's not going to be ONE and DONE with this bunch.  I can guarantee that.

The Bulls are clearly the STRONGEST lower seeded team in the EC.  Detroit quit back in November, Miami has nobody except Wade, and Philly still lacks a go-to guy and outside shooting.  We got hit with the best lower seeded team for the 2nd straight season.  If we had played Detroit, we'd have advanced a week ago.

As for the mid-season pickups, Sean Grande said that McDysses was 'this close' to signing with the Cs after he was bought out in December, going as far as sending text messages to certain players saying he was coming.  Imagine him instead of Mikki Moore.  

As for the offseason signings of TA and House...well, I think we all underestimated the importance of having a point guard on the 2nd team.  It wasn't until TA went out, and Pruitt was inserted into the lineup that ANYBODY got going on the 2nd team (Baby and Powe and House picked up their games starting in January).  In hindsight, even though House had a career year, he was the worst signing because of the necessity of playing him at the 2 guard spot.  I doubt Danny makes the same mistake twice and I think Marbury might the guy that gets the job as back up point.  It's too bad Marbury's lost his confidence.  He still has the skills but his head is in the way.

On a small note, this is Perk's 5th season, not his 6th.

Ryan
--- On Fri, 5/1/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Bummed
> To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 9:37 AM
> As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who
> woulda thunk that 
> we were?always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury
> away from becoming 
> an?ordinary .500 team? ?
> 
> I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all
> odds,? has demonstrated great?
> heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.? But
> then I remind myself?
> that? we have been struggling against arguably the weakest
> ED playoff team,?
> the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th
> seed Detroit?
> lost its heart after the Billups trade.) ?
> 
> So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental
> toughness??
> The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced,
> less-salaried 
> Baby Bulls?
> 
> I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily
> win this series
> 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.? He sure is
> socially, but on court,?
> Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the
> grim-faced,?
> hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> 
> On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7
> in?
> Boston. ?I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to
> resumption is 
> to resume. ?But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it
> just?might be because 
> Danny never?put together the alleged strong bench of my
> hopes and that?
> many?here swore we had this season. ?
> 
> Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett?and Powe) have
> literally rendered?
> our already weak bench useless?while the Bulls 2 of 15
> player injuries 
> (including their best player?Deng) has not.? Chicago
> benchees Hinrich 
> and Miller have far outdone?our useless Scal, House, T.
> Allen, Marbury,
> Moore, Walker, etc.? Don?t?blame Doc?or the Zebras or
> our two injuries
> for this bummer series.?Whose fault is?this but Danny?s
> for re-signing 
> brain dead T. Allen and?one-dimensional?House as our two
> premier
> free agents ... and then picking up?the
> inferior/useless?Moore and 
> Marbury thinking they could be the answer. ?
> 
> ONE (Championship) AND DONE? ?
> 
> Egg
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri May  1 17:28:10 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:28:10 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <300893.82933.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090501132810.GF0D9.122117.imail@eastrmwml30>

Correct analysis, IMO.  Allen was not the reason (the only reason) why we lost.  Foul outs, a Davis travel, 2 Pierce turnover's, missed free throws by Rondo (when we could have gone up 10)etc. all contributed to the loss.
I am still very proud of the heart that this team shows in spite of a depleted lineup.  For me, it was worth getting Garnett and Allen, if it only lead to 1 championship. However, we will be competitive for some time, so if we don't advance further this year, we will next year for certain.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> I've seen this scapegoating of TA all morning across the Internet and, to put it nicely, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.
> 
> To explain: 
> 
> We were up 99-91 with Rondo at the line.  He missed both.  Gordon replaced Thomas and Chicago goes small.  Next possession Rose gets a layup.  We come down, dick around on offense, take a poor shot at the end of the shot clock (miss by Rondo) and the Bulls come down, give the ball to Salmons (who is being guarded by Baby, since the Bulls went small), and he gets to the rim easily and gets the And-1.  It's now 99-96 (after the free throw) and Doc matches up with Chicago's small lineup, inserting TA for Baby.  Next possession we get a nice runner by Ray to put us up 101-96 and then force a miss by Salmons on the other end.  As happened before, we dick around on offense and don't start doing anything until there are less than 10 seconds left on the shot clock--eventually the ball finds its way to TA and he's FORCED to take a shot or get a turnover.  He's gets it on the rim but misses.  The Bulls come down and Perk loses Miller at the top of the key.  Miller
>  gets the ball and drains a 3 pointer.  The score is now 101-99.  We get the ball back, come down, dick around on offense AGAIN, and AGAIN TA gets the ball as the shot clock is nearing zero and does all he can to just get the ball on the rim.  He misses and the Bulls come down, find Brad Miller, and he waltzes to the rim for the tying layup.  
> 
> SO, with that refresher of what actually happened, what could we have done better?  Well, not dick around on offense would be a good place to start.  Rondo/Pierce/Ray Allen all share the blame in those last 2 possessions.  They were being passive.  Rondo especially should have kept the ball in his hands and made sure the ball got to a scorer at the right time.  What else could we have done?  Um, well, we could have guarded Miller at the 3 point line and not let him drive uncontested to the hoop to tie the game.  Those were two Perkins' errors right there.  
> 
> All TA did was play good defense and do his best when bad offensive possessions broke down in the last seconds of the shot clock.  To blame him for the loss is the height of Internet stupidity.  There's plenty of blame to go around for this one and TA is nowhere near the top of the list.  
> 
> Ryan  
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net>
> > Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 11:44 AM
> > You are totally correct, no excuse from Pierce except that
> > he is totally
> > spent, physically and emotionally.  AND I would argue that
> > most of those
> > turnovers he had were called plays from the bench.  You
> > know, the hand it
> > off to Pierce at the top of the key play that we use 10
> > times every game.
> > Except that last night, Pierce just didn't have it to
> > give, Doc should have
> > seen that like the rest of us.  BUT, that never happens if
> > Tony Idiot isn't
> > subbed for Baby right before the end of regulation, I
> > believe that with all
> > my Celtic heart!  If Baby stays on the court we win this by
> > 6-8 points in
> > regulation but Doc always "reacts" instead of
> > making the other team "react"
> > to us. Even the announcers said over & over that the
> > Bulls small guys are
> > better than our small guys.  That is not a good match up
> > for us, so Doc,
> > just DON'T DO IT!!  If you guys can't tell, I am
> > still pretty raw over this
> > loss!!!!  Troy
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> > Of Peter Delevett
> > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> > 
> > 
> > Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on
> > the captain. At the
> > end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the
> > key - Ray was
> > right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point
> > line. All Paul had
> > to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> > you he would have
> > swished that sweet jumper.
> > 
> > Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so
> > instead of letting Noah
> > get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller
> > than you, he makes a
> > three-point play, and you - your team's captain and
> > most skilled offensive
> > player - get tossed from the game.
> > 
> > Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release
> > Date: 05/01/09
> > 06:17:00
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri May  1 17:29:47 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:29:47 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <219266.60684.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090501132947.LSLYN.122138.imail@eastrmwml30>

I guess our health was worse than we thought.  Looks like we had it worse than any other team in the playoffs.  Can anyone think of one team that suffered more?
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Doc said 4 players will need surgery after the season to clean up some lingering injuries.  I expect Pierce to be one of them.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net>
> > Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:44 AM
> > Pierce has been a disappointment in this series.  Quite a
> > few mental
> > mistakes and his defense has been poor.   Salmons is taking
> > him off the
> > dribble at will and as mentioned by another poster, his
> > transition defense
> > has been abysmal.    He looks old and stiff out there.  He
> > doesn't appear to
> > be moving well laterally. I can only speculate that he is
> > hurt.  
> > 
> > Ravi
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
> > Of Peter
> > > Delevett
> > > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:14 AM
> > > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > > Subject: Doc or Pierce?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach
> > or on the captain. At
> > the end of the first OT,
> > > Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key - Ray was
> > right behind him,
> > unguarded, just
> > > beyond the three-point line. All Paul had to do was
> > literally hand the
> > ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> > > you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> > > 
> > > Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so
> > instead of letting Noah
> > get two points,
> > > you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he
> > makes a three-point
> > play, and you - your
> > > team's captain and most skilled offensive player -
> > get tossed from the
> > game.
> > > 
> > > Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri May  1 17:33:42 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:33:42 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <333800.28164.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090501133342.R2PFA.122200.imail@eastrmwml30>

And I love Perk's on the court demeanor.  I couldn't care less if some think he's arrogant.  All I know, is that I want him on my side.  Lately, he's been a shot blocking machine, and a double double threat every night.
Someone mentioned an upgrade in the off season?  Like who?  Forget Howard or Ming, so whose really left?
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Lots to dispute here Egg.  First, without KG, it doesn't matter what we do in free agency.  So, going cheap and then losing KG actually works out in the long run.  I assume we'll spend this summer and hopefully have a healthy KG for the stretch run next season.  It's not going to be ONE and DONE with this bunch.  I can guarantee that.
> 
> The Bulls are clearly the STRONGEST lower seeded team in the EC.  Detroit quit back in November, Miami has nobody except Wade, and Philly still lacks a go-to guy and outside shooting.  We got hit with the best lower seeded team for the 2nd straight season.  If we had played Detroit, we'd have advanced a week ago.
> 
> As for the mid-season pickups, Sean Grande said that McDysses was 'this close' to signing with the Cs after he was bought out in December, going as far as sending text messages to certain players saying he was coming.  Imagine him instead of Mikki Moore.  
> 
> As for the offseason signings of TA and House...well, I think we all underestimated the importance of having a point guard on the 2nd team.  It wasn't until TA went out, and Pruitt was inserted into the lineup that ANYBODY got going on the 2nd team (Baby and Powe and House picked up their games starting in January).  In hindsight, even though House had a career year, he was the worst signing because of the necessity of playing him at the 2 guard spot.  I doubt Danny makes the same mistake twice and I think Marbury might the guy that gets the job as back up point.  It's too bad Marbury's lost his confidence.  He still has the skills but his head is in the way.
> 
> On a small note, this is Perk's 5th season, not his 6th.
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> > Subject: Bummed
> > To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 9:37 AM
> > As exciting as this heart-palps playoff series has been,.who
> > woulda thunk that 
> > we were?always one wild-and-bonkers-guy Garnett injury
> > away from becoming 
> > an?ordinary .500 team? ?
> > 
> > I keep reading that this Celts' team, against all
> > odds,? has demonstrated great?
> > heart and mental toughness in this playoff series.? But
> > then I remind myself?
> > that? we have been struggling against arguably the weakest
> > ED playoff team,?
> > the 41-41 up-and-coming Baby Bulls. (The more talented 8th
> > seed Detroit?
> > lost its heart after the Billups trade.) ?
> > 
> > So which team has really demonstrated heart and mental
> > toughness??
> > The World Champions or the younger, less-experienced,
> > less-salaried 
> > Baby Bulls?
> > 
> > I was so wrong when I predicted that the Celts would easily
> > win this series
> > 4-2, and that Noah was a premier jerkola.? He sure is
> > socially, but on court,?
> > Noah has been more impressive in his 2nd year than the
> > grim-faced,?
> > hated by the league, arrogant Perkins in his 6th year.
> > 
> > On a positive note, we have a good shot of winning Game 7
> > in?
> > Boston. ?I?m sure hoping we do, for the only way to
> > resumption is 
> > to resume. ?But if tomorrow's sun never rises, it
> > just?might be because 
> > Danny never?put together the alleged strong bench of my
> > hopes and that?
> > many?here swore we had this season. ?
> > 
> > Our 2 of 15 player injuries (Garnett?and Powe) have
> > literally rendered?
> > our already weak bench useless?while the Bulls 2 of 15
> > player injuries 
> > (including their best player?Deng) has not.? Chicago
> > benchees Hinrich 
> > and Miller have far outdone?our useless Scal, House, T.
> > Allen, Marbury,
> > Moore, Walker, etc.? Don?t?blame Doc?or the Zebras or
> > our two injuries
> > for this bummer series.?Whose fault is?this but Danny?s
> > for re-signing 
> > brain dead T. Allen and?one-dimensional?House as our two
> > premier
> > free agents ... and then picking up?the
> > inferior/useless?Moore and 
> > Marbury thinking they could be the answer. ?
> > 
> > ONE (Championship) AND DONE? ?
> > 
> > Egg
> > ?
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Fri May  1 17:47:03 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 13:47:03 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <20090501133342.R2PFA.122200.imail@eastrmwml30>
Message-ID: <1FF58FE6.41D8.454A.B643.718CE177A2CD@aol.com>


On May 1, 2009, at 1:33:42 PM, martind42 at cox.net wrote:

On a small note, this is Perk's 5th season, not his 6th.

Wow - Juicy posts today. Much fun. Will be away from the computer
this afternoon and evening, but will?respond with relish to the more interesting posts 
when time permits. ?


Ubi - ?Perk was drafted prior to the 2003-04 season. ?You do the math.

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 17:48:45 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
Message-ID: <977563.87248.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90% move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's so focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one of them, at least, to step up.
?
I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
?
I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, although he begins games looking loose.
?
Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was developed) quickly enough.


      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 17:58:18 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:58:18 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <977563.87248.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <977563.87248.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>

'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking. The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently capable of that on our bench.

Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had seen "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that" much worse? 

I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one solitary second, but "desperate times" and all that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then again...

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: re: Bummed

I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90% move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's so focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one of them, at least, to step up.
?
I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
?
I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, although he begins games looking loose.
?
Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was developed) quickly enough.


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 18:30:05 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:30:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense.  Not that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect.

We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means TA should get all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest.  House ONLY for situations that our offense only.

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
> 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking.
> The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high
> energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently
> capable of that on our bench.
> 
> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the
> following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had seen
> "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's
> proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game
> fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that"
> much worse? 
> 
> I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one
> solitary second, but "desperate times" and all
> that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the
> series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
> again...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene
> kirkpatrick
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: re: Bummed
> 
> I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that
> old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think
> it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90%
> move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been
> looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two
> and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's so
> focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to
> shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I
> understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on
> the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too
> bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go
> further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one
> of them, at least, to step up.
> ?
> I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team
> on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when
> the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have
> Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease
> the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or
> House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
> ?
> I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me,
> although he begins games looking loose.
> ?
> Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with
> Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was
> developed) quickly enough.
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 18:32:33 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <1FF58FE6.41D8.454A.B643.718CE177A2CD@aol.com>
Message-ID: <213572.6802.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Do the math yourself and get back to me.  The 2003-2004 season was his first.  It's now 2009.  That's five seasons, smarty pants.

Go to: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html if you don't believe me.

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Bummed
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:47 PM
> On May 1, 2009, at 1:33:42 PM, martind42 at cox.net wrote:
> 
> On a small note, this is Perk's 5th season, not his
> 6th.
> 
> Wow - Juicy posts today. Much fun. Will be away from the
> computer
> this afternoon and evening, but will?respond with relish
> to the more interesting posts 
> when time permits. ?
> 
> 
> Ubi - ?Perk was drafted prior to the 2003-04 season. ?You
> do the math.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 18:45:50 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:45:50 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>

While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity especially at the end of games. 

It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are done like dinner).




-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Bummed


Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense.  Not that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect.

We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means TA should get all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest.  House ONLY for situations that our offense only.

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
> 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking.
> The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high
> energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently
> capable of that on our bench.
> 
> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the
> following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had seen
> "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's
> proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game
> fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that"
> much worse? 
> 
> I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one
> solitary second, but "desperate times" and all
> that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the
> series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
> again...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene
> kirkpatrick
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: re: Bummed
> 
> I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that
> old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think
> it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90%
> move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been
> looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two
> and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's so
> focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to
> shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I
> understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on
> the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too
> bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go
> further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one
> of them, at least, to step up.
> ?
> I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team
> on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when
> the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have
> Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease
> the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or
> House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
> ?
> I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me,
> although he begins games looking loose.
> ?
> Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with
> Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was
> developed) quickly enough.
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 18:54:21 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <847503.24128.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that besides not having Garnett, we're also without Powe.? I don't think Noah or Thomas would be nearly as effective with a healthy Leon in there.

Agree we need to cut bait with Tony Allen.




________________________________
From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil" <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:45:50 PM
Subject: RE: Bummed

While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity especially at the end of games. It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are done like dinner). -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM To:
 The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Bummed Actually, that's not a question worth asking. I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense. Not that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect. We'll win on Saturday with defense. To me, that means TA should get all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest. House ONLY for situations that our offense only. Ryan --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil > Subject: RE: Bummed > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking. > The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high > energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently > capable of that on our bench. > > Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the > following truisms. They are both rookies. Neither had seen > "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's >
 proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game > fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that" > much worse? > > I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one > solitary second, but "desperate times" and all > that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the > series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench > players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then > again... > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene > kirkpatrick > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: re: Bummed > > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that > old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think > it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90% > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
 so > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to > shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I > understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on > the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too > bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the > full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go > further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one > of them, at least, to step up. > ? > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team > on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when > the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have > Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or > House on the floor, but be sure to defend. > ? > I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, > although he begins games looking loose. > ? > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help
 with > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was > developed) quickly enough. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 18:56:23 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:56:23 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <847503.24128.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<847503.24128.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905011856.n41IuQKS029345@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Indeed. Powe was our second quickest big after Garnett. Two blows to the same weak spot.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:54 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bummed

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that besides not having Garnett, we're also without Powe.? I don't think Noah or Thomas would be nearly as effective with a healthy Leon in there.

Agree we need to cut bait with Tony Allen.




________________________________
From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil" <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:45:50 PM
Subject: RE: Bummed

While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity especially at the end of games. It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are done like dinner). -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM To:
 The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Bummed Actually, that's not a question worth asking. I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense. Not that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect. We'll win on Saturday with defense. To me, that means TA should get all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest. House ONLY for situations that our offense only. Ryan --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil > Subject: RE: Bummed > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking. > The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high > energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently > capable of that on our bench. > > Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the > following truisms. They are both rookies. Neither had seen > "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's >
 proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game > fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that" > much worse? > > I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one > solitary second, but "desperate times" and all > that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the > series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench > players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then > again... > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene > kirkpatrick > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: re: Bummed > > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that > old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think > it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90% > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not been > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
 so > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to > shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I > understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on > the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.? Too > bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the > full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go > further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We need one > of them, at least, to step up. > ? > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team > on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when > the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would have > Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need Ray or > House on the floor, but be sure to defend. > ? > I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, > although he begins games looking loose. > ? > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help
 with > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was > developed) quickly enough. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri May  1 19:10:29 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:10:29 -0700
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <E36851DB-992E-4B25-9C62-3388DCEA5A69@verizon.net>

They will try to double ray & Paul and others can't step up we could  
be in trouble. Walker might be a better alternative to tony


Perk has to play better d on miller, and we need to shut down heinrich



On May 1, 2009, at 11:45 AM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so  
> sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with  
> Da Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position  
> except PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend  
> rotationally against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by  
> the quickness disparity especially at the end of games.
>
> It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on  
> bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when  
> they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game  
> (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's why  
> for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went  
> all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are  
> done like dinner).
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On  
> Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Bummed
>
>
> Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love Bill Walker  
> but he would get owned on defense.  Not that he doesn't have talent,  
> but the refs would give him no respect.
>
> We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means TA should get  
> all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to  
> rest.  House ONLY for situations that our offense only.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil 
> > wrote:
>
>> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
>> Subject: RE: Bummed
>> To: celtics at igtc.com
>> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
>> 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking.
>> The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high
>> energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently
>> capable of that on our bench.
>>
>> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the
>> following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had seen
>> "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's
>> proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game
>> fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that"
>> much worse?
>>
>> I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one
>> solitary second, but "desperate times" and all
>> that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the
>> series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
>> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
>> again...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
>> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene
>> kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
>> To: celtics at igtc.com
>> Subject: re: Bummed
>>
>> I'm mad, too, Eddie.  Well, some of you remember that
>> old political ad.  Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think
>> it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90%
>> move the ball and penetrate.  Tony clearly has not been
>> looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two
>> and isn't in rhythm.  Same with Stephon--he's so
>> focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to
>> shoot.  Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.  I
>> understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on
>> the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.  Too
>> bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
>> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.  If we go
>> further, I hope we see more of them than less.  We need one
>> of them, at least, to step up.
>>
>> I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team
>> on the court.  It's easier to catch up or hold on when
>> the other team is frustrated offensively.  I would have
>> Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease
>> the easier shots.  Swap out for offense if you need Ray or
>> House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
>>
>> I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me,
>> although he begins games looking loose.
>>
>> Gene  PS:  We drafted for athletic bench help with
>> Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was
>> developed) quickly enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  1 19:37:49 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:37:49 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <E36851DB-992E-4B25-9C62-3388DCEA5A69@verizon.net>
References: <200905011758.n41HwQfe020552@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<995622.40883.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<200905011845.n41IjtsV011320@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<E36851DB-992E-4B25-9C62-3388DCEA5A69@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200905011950.n41Jo55U010913@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Honestly, and I don't why I didn't think of it before...but I'd almost be inclined to throw a zone defense look at Chicago too given our quickness disparity.



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:10 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Cc: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: Re: Bummed

They will try to double ray & Paul and others can't step up we could  
be in trouble. Walker might be a better alternative to tony


Perk has to play better d on miller, and we need to shut down heinrich



On May 1, 2009, at 11:45 AM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so  
> sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with  
> Da Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position  
> except PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend  
> rotationally against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by  
> the quickness disparity especially at the end of games.
>
> It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on  
> bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when  
> they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game  
> (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's why  
> for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went  
> all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are  
> done like dinner).
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On  
> Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Bummed
>
>
> Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love Bill Walker  
> but he would get owned on defense.  Not that he doesn't have talent,  
> but the refs would give him no respect.
>
> We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means TA should get  
> all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to  
> rest.  House ONLY for situations that our offense only.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil 
> > wrote:
>
>> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
>> Subject: RE: Bummed
>> To: celtics at igtc.com
>> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
>> 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking.
>> The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high
>> energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy currently
>> capable of that on our bench.
>>
>> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the
>> following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had seen
>> "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's
>> proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game
>> fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be "that"
>> much worse?
>>
>> I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one
>> solitary second, but "desperate times" and all
>> that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the
>> series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
>> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
>> again...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
>> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene
>> kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
>> To: celtics at igtc.com
>> Subject: re: Bummed
>>
>> I'm mad, too, Eddie.  Well, some of you remember that
>> old political ad.  Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think
>> it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or 90%
>> move the ball and penetrate.  Tony clearly has not been
>> looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot or two
>> and isn't in rhythm.  Same with Stephon--he's so
>> focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to
>> shoot.  Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.  I
>> understand they are role players, but there are only 5 on
>> the court and eventually they will all need to shoot.  Too
>> bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
>> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.  If we go
>> further, I hope we see more of them than less.  We need one
>> of them, at least, to step up.
>>
>> I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team
>> on the court.  It's easier to catch up or hold on when
>> the other team is frustrated offensively.  I would have
>> Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and decrease
>> the easier shots.  Swap out for offense if you need Ray or
>> House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
>>
>> I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me,
>> although he begins games looking loose.
>>
>> Gene  PS:  We drafted for athletic bench help with
>> Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was
>> developed) quickly enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 21:05:45 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011845.n41IjtsV011321@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <94865.28816.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yep, you're right about the quickness disparity, which again makes me beat the TA drum even more.  We NEED him out there on the perimeter--the Bulls have 4 guards who can get to the rim and shoot with range.  Eddie House is at a distinct disadvantage in any matchup and he can't get a shot off on the other end either.  In fact, he's an easy guard and bad defender.  Additionally, his one strength contributes the one of the team's overall weaknesses--the over-reliance on jump shooting.  

As for what the coaches should or shouldn't do, well, I think it's clear that our starting five beats their starting five pretty easily (the +/- numbers bear this out).  Baby and Perk against Noah/Miller/Thomas has been about a wash--except for the fact that they have 3 players to our 2, which leads to them being fresher and more able to foul when necessary.  But, when Chicago goes small (with a three guard, Rose/Hinrich/Gordon backcourt and Salmons at 4), we're royally screwed.  None of our bigs can matchup with Salmons, which forces us to go small to match up.  We put Paul at 4 and then have to decide who the third guard is going to be...Doc has tried House to no avail, and Marbury, who is scared out of his mind, and TA, who at least can play defense.  I'm not under any allusions about TA's greatness, but in this series, when Chicago goes small, he's the best answer we have.  Doc, as coach, should have known this on Day 1 and been playing TA in the 1st
 half in order to get him ready for crunch time minutes in case Chicago went small.  And he should have put in some sets to better use TA on offense.  But neither of those things have happened.  When Doc has gone to TA, it's been in desperation and with absolutely zero confidence.  I mean, TA's a pretty good offensive player at times, but Doc's insistence that he pretty much forget about playing offense has in turn taking any offensive strengths TA might have and flushed them down the toilet, not the mention the fact that TA's playing time usually comes in crunch time, which again adds more indecision and lack of confidence.

But you know what?  Doc is a stubborn coach.  Last year, it was a smart thing.  We didn't make adjustments; we didn't have to, we were always the better team.  Instead of adjustments, we just went harder and it usually worked.  Doc's kept the same mantra this season, even as our circumstances have changed.  That's been the mistake.  It's not about going harder right now, it's about making the smarter adjustment.  Playing TA and going to him on offense was part of what should have been our adjustment.  But, Doc, being stubborn has kept going to Eddie House, even though it was clear from Game 1 that Eddie's shortness combined with the length of the Bulls backcourt was a bad match.  The Bulls can defend the perimeter, especially against 5'11" shooting guards.  

But it goes even beyond substitutions--we're not even running any plays for House when he's in there!  It's one thing to be stubborn and stick with your guy (those are admirable traits), but it's another thing to be stubborn and dumb.  We need to be running House off the same guantlet of picks that we devise for Ray Allen and not sitting Ed in the corner and 'hoping' the Bulls forget about him.  

Ryan
--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 1:45 PM
> While I'd love to agree that we'll win with
> defense...I'm not so sure I agree. The single area in
> which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is quickness. We
> are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While
> our team based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally
> against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by the
> quickness disparity especially at the end of games. 
> 
> It's why during the course of the game we get so many
> "takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all
> the Bulls players and then when they go spread "all one
> on one" without any passing late in the game (and
> overtime) they have generally good offensive success.
> (It's why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being
> outcoached...if he went all spread and ditched the passing
> half court offense the Cs are done like dinner).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> 
> 
> Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love
> Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense.  Not that he
> doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no
> respect.
> 
> We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means
> TA should get all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only
> play if Rondo needs to rest.  House ONLY for situations that
> our offense only.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Bummed
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
> > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth
> asking.
> > The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost -
> high
> > energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy
> currently
> > capable of that on our bench.
> > 
> > Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will
> say the
> > following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had
> seen
> > "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's
> > proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late
> game
> > fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be
> "that"
> > much worse? 
> > 
> > I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play
> one
> > solitary second, but "desperate times" and
> all
> > that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the
> > series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic
> bench
> > players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
> > again...
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene
> > kirkpatrick
> > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: re: Bummed
> > 
> > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember
> that
> > old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I
> think
> > it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or
> 90%
> > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not
> been
> > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot
> or two
> > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
> so
> > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm
> to
> > shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I
> > understand they are role players, but there are only 5
> on
> > the court and eventually they will all need to
> shoot.? Too
> > bad both of them had such a short time to get back
> into the
> > full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go
> > further, I hope we see more of them than less.? We
> need one
> > of them, at least, to step up.
> > ?
> > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive
> team
> > on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on
> when
> > the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would
> have
> > Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and
> decrease
> > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need
> Ray or
> > House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
> > ?
> > I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to
> me,
> > although he begins games looking loose.
> > ?
> > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with
> > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was
> > developed) quickly enough.
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 21:09:26 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:09:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <213572.6802.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <61334.99151.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Egg,

I apologize.  After thinking it through a little longer, Perk is a 5-year veteran, but is currently in his 6th pro season.  So I was wrong, kinda :)

Sorry about the tone of the post too, it had more snappy than was needed.  Triple OT losses will do that to a guy.  Too many wild swings of emotion in too short a time period.

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Bummed
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 1:32 PM
> Do the math yourself and get back to me.  The 2003-2004
> season was his first.  It's now 2009.  That's five
> seasons, smarty pants.
> 
> Go to:
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html if
> you don't believe me.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: Bummed
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:47 PM
> > On May 1, 2009, at 1:33:42 PM, martind42 at cox.net
> wrote:
> > 
> > On a small note, this is Perk's 5th season, not
> his
> > 6th.
> > 
> > Wow - Juicy posts today. Much fun. Will be away from
> the
> > computer
> > this afternoon and evening, but will?respond with
> relish
> > to the more interesting posts 
> > when time permits. ?
> > 
> > 
> > Ubi - ?Perk was drafted prior to the 2003-04 season.
> ?You
> > do the math.
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Fri May  1 22:54:36 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tomorrow
Message-ID: <901210.42569.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping an eye on the scores while holidaying here in Sydney, and I even caught yesterday's marathon game (a classic!).

My predictions have been off for this series but I honestly think that tomorrow's game will be similar to last year's Game 7 against the Hawks.

I could be wrong, of course, but hopefully we will be seeing the Celtics playing against the Magic next week.

Adam


      Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now.

From eml at vnatale.com  Fri May  1 23:15:09 2009
From: eml at vnatale.com (Vinny Natale)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 19:15:09 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <811889.74664.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090501231844.04CE1E19591@ignite.igtc.com>

At 11:13 AM 5/1/2009, Peter Delevett wrote:

>Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. 
>At the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key 
>- Ray was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point 
>line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and 
>I'll bet you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
>
>Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of 
>letting Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller 
>than you, he makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain 
>and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the game.

How about if he stopped him and Noah missed either one or both free 
throws and the Celtics, therefore, ended up winning.  What do you then say?

Vinny



>Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date: 
>05/01/09 17:52:00


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri May  1 23:43:38 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:43:38 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <20090501231844.04CE1E19591@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <20090501194338.E9HVN.122876.imail@eastrmwml33>

But he didn't.  He had a brain cramp.
---- Vinny Natale <eml at vnatale.com> wrote: 
> At 11:13 AM 5/1/2009, Peter Delevett wrote:
> 
> >Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain. 
> >At the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key 
> >- Ray was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point 
> >line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and 
> >I'll bet you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> >
> >Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of 
> >letting Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller 
> >than you, he makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain 
> >and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the game.
> 
> How about if he stopped him and Noah missed either one or both free 
> throws and the Celtics, therefore, ended up winning.  What do you then say?
> 
> Vinny
> 
> 
> 
> >Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >celtics at igtc.com
> >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date: 
> >05/01/09 17:52:00
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eml at vnatale.com  Fri May  1 23:47:29 2009
From: eml at vnatale.com (Vinny Natale)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 19:47:29 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <20090501194338.E9HVN.122876.imail@eastrmwml33>
References: <20090501231844.04CE1E19591@ignite.igtc.com>
	<20090501194338.E9HVN.122876.imail@eastrmwml33>
Message-ID: <20090501234823.2093EE19591@ignite.igtc.com>

Did you/he know it was impossible to stop the basket when he was 
attempting to do so?  And, under the intense pressure of the game at 
that point, you are totally clear thinking like you are now relaxed, 
sitting behind a keyboard?

Vinny


At 07:43 PM 5/1/2009, martind42 at cox.net wrote:
>But he didn't.  He had a brain cramp.
>---- Vinny Natale <eml at vnatale.com> wrote:
> > At 11:13 AM 5/1/2009, Peter Delevett wrote:
> >
> > >Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain.
> > >At the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key
> > >- Ray was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point
> > >line. All Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and
> > >I'll bet you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
> > >
> > >Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of
> > >letting Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller
> > >than you, he makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain
> > >and most skilled offensive player - get tossed from the game.
> >
> > How about if he stopped him and Noah missed either one or both free
> > throws and the Celtics, therefore, ended up winning.  What do you then say?
> >
> > Vinny
> >
> >
> >
> > >Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >celtics at igtc.com
> > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date:
> > >05/01/09 17:52:00
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date: 
>05/01/09 17:52:00


From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 01:49:43 2009
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Math
In-Reply-To: <mailman.156.1241207416.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <264499.42132.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


<<Do the math yourself and get back to me.  The 2003-2004
season was his first.  It's now 2009.  That's five seasons, smarty pants.>>

<<Go to: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html if you don't believe me.>>
> 
> Ryan
> ***************************************************************

Went there, although I didn't really need to....

2003-2004 (1st season)
2004-2005 (2nd season)
2005-2006 (3rd season)
2006-2007 (4th season)
2007-2008 (5th season)
2008-2009 (6th season)

You were saying?


      


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Sat May  2 01:59:02 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:59:02 -0400
Subject: Doc or Pierce?
In-Reply-To: <300893.82933.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <00d001c9ca7c$1fdf4090$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
	<300893.82933.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00f701c9cac9$91349770$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

 2 points you made yourself.  1 our defense was NO better with Tony Idiot on
the floor and 2 don't think for a second that the Bulls realized that TA was
a 0 threat offensively and wanted/begged him to have the ball in his hands.
But like I said, don't blame Tony cause he can't play the game, blame Doc
for putting him out there in the first place.  And I DO blame Doc!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:11 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?


I've seen this scapegoating of TA all morning across the Internet and, to
put it nicely, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of
basketball.

To explain:

We were up 99-91 with Rondo at the line.  He missed both.  Gordon replaced
Thomas and Chicago goes small.  Next possession Rose gets a layup.  We come
down, dick around on offense, take a poor shot at the end of the shot clock
(miss by Rondo) and the Bulls come down, give the ball to Salmons (who is
being guarded by Baby, since the Bulls went small), and he gets to the rim
easily and gets the And-1.  It's now 99-96 (after the free throw) and Doc
matches up with Chicago's small lineup, inserting TA for Baby.  Next
possession we get a nice runner by Ray to put us up 101-96 and then force a
miss by Salmons on the other end.  As happened before, we dick around on
offense and don't start doing anything until there are less than 10 seconds
left on the shot clock--eventually the ball finds its way to TA and he's
FORCED to take a shot or get a turnover.  He's gets it on the rim but
misses.  The Bulls come down and Perk loses Miller at the top of the key.
Miller  gets the ball and drains a 3 pointer.  The score is now 101-99.  We
get the ball back, come down, dick around on offense AGAIN, and AGAIN TA
gets the ball as the shot clock is nearing zero and does all he can to just
get the ball on the rim.  He misses and the Bulls come down, find Brad
Miller, and he waltzes to the rim for the tying layup.

SO, with that refresher of what actually happened, what could we have done
better?  Well, not dick around on offense would be a good place to start.
Rondo/Pierce/Ray Allen all share the blame in those last 2 possessions.
They were being passive.  Rondo especially should have kept the ball in his
hands and made sure the ball got to a scorer at the right time.  What else
could we have done?  Um, well, we could have guarded Miller at the 3 point
line and not let him drive uncontested to the hoop to tie the game.  Those
were two Perkins' errors right there.

All TA did was play good defense and do his best when bad offensive
possessions broke down in the last seconds of the shot clock.  To blame him
for the loss is the height of Internet stupidity.  There's plenty of blame
to go around for this one and TA is nowhere near the top of the list.

Ryan

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net> wrote:

> From: Troy Hash <troynsusiehash at alltel.net>
> Subject: RE: Doc or Pierce?
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 11:44 AM
> You are totally correct, no excuse from Pierce except that he is
> totally spent, physically and emotionally.  AND I would argue that
> most of those turnovers he had were called plays from the bench.  You
> know, the hand it off to Pierce at the top of the key play that we use
> 10 times every game.
> Except that last night, Pierce just didn't have it to give, Doc should
> have seen that like the rest of us.  BUT, that never happens if Tony
> Idiot isn't subbed for Baby right before the end of regulation, I
> believe that with all my Celtic heart!  If Baby stays on the court we
> win this by
> 6-8 points in
> regulation but Doc always "reacts" instead of making the other team
> "react"
> to us. Even the announcers said over & over that the Bulls small guys
> are better than our small guys.  That is not a good match up for us,
> so Doc, just DON'T DO IT!!  If you guys can't tell, I am still pretty
> raw over this loss!!!!  Troy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Peter Delevett
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Doc or Pierce?
>
>
> Troy - not sure if I'd pin this loss on the coach or on the captain.
> At the end of the first OT, Pierce had the ball @ the top of the key -
> Ray was right behind him, unguarded, just beyond the three-point line.
> All Paul had to do was literally hand the ball to Ray, and I'll bet
> you he would have swished that sweet jumper.
>
> Or how about this: you know you've got 5 fouls, so instead of letting
> Noah get two points, you foul a guy who's 4 inches taller than you, he
> makes a three-point play, and you - your team's captain and most
> skilled offensive player - get tossed from the game.
>
> Two dumb late-game decisions by Pierce.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release
> Date: 05/01/09
> 06:17:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00



From martind42 at cox.net  Sat May  2 01:58:21 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:58:21 -0400
Subject: Math
In-Reply-To: <264499.42132.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090501215821.WW5IR.134822.imail@eastrmwml47>

The good news is he's gotten better each year.  He is now among the elite centers in the league (prototypical centers, that is).
---- Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> <<Do the math yourself and get back to me.  The 2003-2004
> season was his first.  It's now 2009.  That's five seasons, smarty pants.>>
> 
> <<Go to: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html if you don't believe me.>>
> > 
> > Ryan
> > ***************************************************************
> 
> Went there, although I didn't really need to....
> 
> 2003-2004 (1st season)
> 2004-2005 (2nd season)
> 2005-2006 (3rd season)
> 2006-2007 (4th season)
> 2007-2008 (5th season)
> 2008-2009 (6th season)
> 
> You were saying?
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Sat May  2 02:08:02 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:08:02 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <94865.28816.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <200905011845.n41IjtsV011321@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<94865.28816.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010201c9caca$d31baa60$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

 I don't mean to beat you up on this Ryan, we are on the same team.  But TA
has proven over & over that he is NOT a good defensive matchup because of
his stupidity!!!  Don't take my word for it, look at the results.  I won't
mention again his hidious effect on the offense.  Nothing good happens when
he is on the court, nothing.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 5:06 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Bummed


Yep, you're right about the quickness disparity, which again makes me beat
the TA drum even more.  We NEED him out there on the perimeter--the Bulls
have 4 guards who can get to the rim and shoot with range.  Eddie House is
at a distinct disadvantage in any matchup and he can't get a shot off on the
other end either.  In fact, he's an easy guard and bad defender.
Additionally, his one strength contributes the one of the team's overall
weaknesses--the over-reliance on jump shooting.

As for what the coaches should or shouldn't do, well, I think it's clear
that our starting five beats their starting five pretty easily (the +/-
numbers bear this out).  Baby and Perk against Noah/Miller/Thomas has been
about a wash--except for the fact that they have 3 players to our 2, which
leads to them being fresher and more able to foul when necessary.  But, when
Chicago goes small (with a three guard, Rose/Hinrich/Gordon backcourt and
Salmons at 4), we're royally screwed.  None of our bigs can matchup with
Salmons, which forces us to go small to match up.  We put Paul at 4 and then
have to decide who the third guard is going to be...Doc has tried House to
no avail, and Marbury, who is scared out of his mind, and TA, who at least
can play defense.  I'm not under any allusions about TA's greatness, but in
this series, when Chicago goes small, he's the best answer we have.  Doc, as
coach, should have known this on Day 1 and been playing TA in the 1st  half
in order to get him ready for crunch time minutes in case Chicago went
small.  And he should have put in some sets to better use TA on offense.
But neither of those things have happened.  When Doc has gone to TA, it's
been in desperation and with absolutely zero confidence.  I mean, TA's a
pretty good offensive player at times, but Doc's insistence that he pretty
much forget about playing offense has in turn taking any offensive strengths
TA might have and flushed them down the toilet, not the mention the fact
that TA's playing time usually comes in crunch time, which again adds more
indecision and lack of confidence.

But you know what?  Doc is a stubborn coach.  Last year, it was a smart
thing.  We didn't make adjustments; we didn't have to, we were always the
better team.  Instead of adjustments, we just went harder and it usually
worked.  Doc's kept the same mantra this season, even as our circumstances
have changed.  That's been the mistake.  It's not about going harder right
now, it's about making the smarter adjustment.  Playing TA and going to him
on offense was part of what should have been our adjustment.  But, Doc,
being stubborn has kept going to Eddie House, even though it was clear from
Game 1 that Eddie's shortness combined with the length of the Bulls
backcourt was a bad match.  The Bulls can defend the perimeter, especially
against 5'11" shooting guards.

But it goes even beyond substitutions--we're not even running any plays for
House when he's in there!  It's one thing to be stubborn and stick with your
guy (those are admirable traits), but it's another thing to be stubborn and
dumb.  We need to be running House off the same guantlet of picks that we
devise for Ray Allen and not sitting Ed in the corner and 'hoping' the Bulls
forget about him.

Ryan
--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
<Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 1:45 PM
> While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so sure
> I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da
> Bulls is quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except
> PG. While our team based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally
> against pass the ball offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness
> disparity especially at the end of games.
>
> It's why during the course of the game we get so many "takeaways" on
> bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players and then when
> they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late in the game
> (and
> overtime) they have generally good offensive success.
> (It's why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if
> he went all spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs
> are done like dinner).
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:30 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Bummed
>
>
> Actually, that's not a question worth asking.  I love Bill Walker but
> he would get owned on defense.  Not that he doesn't have talent, but
> the refs would give him no respect.
>
> We'll win on Saturday with defense.  To me, that means TA should get
> all the 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to
> rest.  House ONLY for situations that our offense only.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
>
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Bummed
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 12:58 PM
> > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth
> asking.
> > The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost -
> high
> > energy athleticism and we have exactly one guy
> currently
> > capable of that on our bench.
> >
> > Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will
> say the
> > following truisms.  They are both rookies. Neither had
> seen
> > "playoff intensity" before. Given Tony's proclivity for ill-timed
> > offensive end gaffs and late
> game
> > fouls is Walker even an option? Would he be
> "that"
> > much worse?
> >
> > I know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play
> one
> > solitary second, but "desperate times" and
> all
> > that. Unfortunately the chances were earlier in the series...I will
> > be surprised to see any of the Celtic
> bench
> > players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then again...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick
> > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Subject: re: Bummed
> >
> > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember
> that
> > old political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I
> think
> > it's tough when your assignment is 90% defense or
> 90%
> > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony clearly has not
> been
> > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot
> or two
> > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
> so
> > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm
> to
> > shoot.? Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I understand they are
> > role players, but there are only 5
> on
> > the court and eventually they will all need to
> shoot.? Too
> > bad both of them had such a short time to get back
> into the
> > full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go further, I
> > hope we see more of them than less.? We
> need one
> > of them, at least, to step up.
> > ?
> > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive
> team
> > on the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on
> when
> > the other team is frustrated offensively.? I would
> have
> > Perk and Tony on the floor to protect the lane and
> decrease
> > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if you need
> Ray or
> > House on the floor, but be sure to defend.
> > ?
> > I agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to
> me,
> > although he begins games looking loose.
> > ?
> > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench help with Giddens & Walker
> > but neither developed (or was
> > developed) quickly enough.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00



From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 02:18:05 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed 
Message-ID: <636873.5805.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think the only solution is to look back at Tony's? play in the past or hope we get to the next round and see it there.? In the time that he finished regulation--about 3 minutes, he stopped whomever he was guarding, dished an assist to Perk, dished again to Perk who missed an 8 footer, and missed two shots as the clock wound down.? At the same time, Pierce & Rondo were missing shots, too.? I think Tony is a space cadet, but he is a good basketball player, too.? 

Otoh, I don't see how you people can watch these games live.? Aren't you afraid of heart attacks or gastric distress, or even a mild attack of belching.? Cheers, Gene



      

From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Sat May  2 02:26:30 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:26:30 -0400
Subject: Bummed 
In-Reply-To: <636873.5805.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <636873.5805.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <011101c9cacd$678e3850$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Gene, yes to your question about health problems!  My wife keeps the
defibrillator charged up and actually got it out last night!  Troy

 

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of gene kirkpatrick
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:18 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: re: Bummed 

 

I think the only solution is to look back at Tony's  play in the past or
hope we get to the next round and see it there.  In the time that he
finished regulation--about 3 minutes, he stopped whomever he was guarding,
dished an assist to Perk, dished again to Perk who missed an 8 footer, and
missed two shots as the clock wound down.  At the same time, Pierce & Rondo
were missing shots, too.  I think Tony is a space cadet, but he is a good
basketball player, too.  

 

Otoh, I don't see how you people can watch these games live.  Aren't you
afraid of heart attacks or gastric distress, or even a mild attack of
belching.  Cheers, Gene

 

 

 

      

_______________________________________________

The Boston Celtics Mailing List

celtics at igtc.com

http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 

Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.8/2086 - Release Date: 05/01/09
06:17:00


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 04:27:46 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:27:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Math
In-Reply-To: <264499.42132.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <993243.81579.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that :)

Ryan


--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Math
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 8:49 PM
> <<Do the math yourself and get back to me.  The
> 2003-2004
> season was his first.  It's now 2009.  That's five
> seasons, smarty pants.>>
> 
> <<Go to:
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html if
> you don't believe me.>>
> > 
> > Ryan
> >
> ***************************************************************
> 
> Went there, although I didn't really need to....
> 
> 2003-2004 (1st season)
> 2004-2005 (2nd season)
> 2005-2006 (3rd season)
> 2006-2007 (4th season)
> 2007-2008 (5th season)
> 2008-2009 (6th season)
> 
> You were saying?
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 12:31:45 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 05:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905011856.n41IuQKS029345@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <525490.28565.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>



The Bulls injured star is not a 4/5. They have Noah, Thomas, and Miller (btw, don't you wish *he* had been our pickup instead of Moore?)? We lost KG and Leon.? That's HUGE.?? And Salmons/Gordon have made up for Deng.?? The trade with Sacto gave them a great playoff roster. 

Anybody want to sign Ben Gordon?

Ellie

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Bummed
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:56 PM

Indeed. Powe was our second quickest big after Garnett. Two blows to the same
weak spot.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of
asterix ninetynine
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:54 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bummed

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that besides not having Garnett,
we're also without Powe.? I don't think Noah or Thomas would be nearly
as effective with a healthy Leon in there.

Agree we need to cut bait with Tony Allen.




________________________________
From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil"
<Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:45:50 PM
Subject: RE: Bummed

While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so
sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is
quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While our team
based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against pass the ball
offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity especially at the end
of games. It's why during the course of the game we get so many
"takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players
and then when they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late
in the game (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's
why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went all
spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are done like dinner).
-----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
[mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009
2:30 PM To:
 The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Bummed Actually, that's not a
question worth asking. I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense. Not
that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect.
We'll win on Saturday with defense. To me, that means TA should get all the
2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest. House ONLY for
situations that our offense only. Ryan --- On Fri, 5/1/09,
Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil >
Subject: RE: Bummed > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009,
12:58 PM > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking. >
The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high > energy athleticism
and we have exactly one guy currently > capable of that on our bench. >
> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the > following
truisms. They are both rookies. Neither had seen > "playoff
intensity" before. Given Tony's >
 proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game > fouls is
Walker even an option? Would he be "that" > much worse? > > I
know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one > solitary second, but
"desperate times" and all > that. Unfortunately the chances were
earlier in the > series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then > again... >
> -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com >
[mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene > kirkpatrick > Sent:
Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: re: Bummed
> > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that > old
political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think > it's tough when
your assignment is 90% defense or 90% > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony
clearly has not been > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot
or two > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
 so > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to > shoot.?
Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I > understand they are role players,
but there are only 5 on > the court and eventually they will all need to
shoot.? Too > bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go > further, I hope
we see more of them than less.? We need one > of them, at least, to step up.
> ? > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team > on
the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when > the other team is
frustrated offensively.? I would have > Perk and Tony on the floor to
protect the lane and decrease > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if
you need Ray or > House on the floor, but be sure to defend. > ? > I
agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, > although he begins
games looking loose. > ? > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench
help
 with > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was > developed)
quickly enough. > > > >
_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing
List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________ > The Boston
Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com >
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Sat May  2 13:01:37 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 09:01:37 -0400
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <525490.28565.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <200905011856.n41IuQKS029345@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
	<525490.28565.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905021301.n42D1in9012105@ares.afrc.af.mil>

In a word - no. He's Eddie House with a great first step and better handle. I don't mean that derogatorily to either man, but he's not what the Cs need. He doesn't defend (sometimes at all) and can exploited if we had a two guard or PG that could take him on the box (a guy with post skills like G. Payton or M. Jackson would kill him). Who primarily defended Ray when he went for his 51? If Ray had been hot in Games 1 or 3 we'd have won easily because of Gordon's defensive shortcomings. 

The Cs needs remain length - primarily at the 3, 4 or 5 slots. The guy that would correct that need best - Prince from Detroit is the perfect fit as a guy that can lock down a wing player and hit big jumpers. We already know Posey fit as well. A long 4 (unlike Moore) who could get some boards and hit an open jumper (in Moore's defense he has hit the jumper in the past just not for us - but he's never been a good rebounder and Ainge DID miss that fact) is another necessity - doesn't have to be a stud (like WOTR keeps insisting it has to be - ie Rasheed) a consistent role player is all. 

Another thing - totally unrelated, but TA is a pretty good guy on the box - why we haven't used that aspect of his game vs Gordon instead of sticking him in the Eddie House (go stand over there and if your guy cheats off we'll either fake it to you or pass it with .6 seconds left on the shot clock) role on offense I have no idea. We've figured out that Perk on the box is actually an efficient scoring option (so much so that the Bulls have started DOUBLING him now - go figure) so it's not a huge leap.

As you can see - I'm not optimistic. I'm already talking about needs and "should've dones". Great team this year, greater heart and guts, but the loss of KG literally ripped the very soul of this team out. Without him we're the 2002 Celtics all over again with Baby playing Rodney Rogers and Rondo in the hot at the time Tony Delk role. Nice team, but not really even an Eastern Conference Finals contender (we were exposed against the Nets that year). Injuries may be part of sports, but they're more devestating "the year after" the Championship because it's at least more satisfying if the younger up and coming team reaches up and takes it away facing the full championship team from the year before then being left griping "well, if we'd only had KG things would've been different".
 


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 8:32 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Bummed



The Bulls injured star is not a 4/5. They have Noah, Thomas, and Miller (btw, don't you wish *he* had been our pickup instead of Moore?)? We lost KG and Leon.? That's HUGE.?? And Salmons/Gordon have made up for Deng.?? The trade with Sacto gave them a great playoff roster. 

Anybody want to sign Ben Gordon?

Ellie

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Bummed
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:56 PM

Indeed. Powe was our second quickest big after Garnett. Two blows to the same
weak spot.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of
asterix ninetynine
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:54 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Bummed

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that besides not having Garnett,
we're also without Powe.? I don't think Noah or Thomas would be nearly
as effective with a healthy Leon in there.

Agree we need to cut bait with Tony Allen.




________________________________
From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil"
<Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:45:50 PM
Subject: RE: Bummed

While I'd love to agree that we'll win with defense...I'm not so
sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up well with Da Bulls is
quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position except PG. While our team
based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against pass the ball
offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity especially at the end
of games. It's why during the course of the game we get so many
"takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost all the Bulls players
and then when they go spread "all one on one" without any passing late
in the game (and overtime) they have generally good offensive success. (It's
why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being outcoached...if he went all
spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs are done like dinner).
-----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
[mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009
2:30 PM To:
 The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Bummed Actually, that's not a
question worth asking. I love Bill Walker but he would get owned on defense. Not
that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give him no respect.
We'll win on Saturday with defense. To me, that means TA should get all the
2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to rest. House ONLY for
situations that our offense only. Ryan --- On Fri, 5/1/09,
Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil >
Subject: RE: Bummed > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009,
12:58 PM > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question worth asking. >
The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high > energy athleticism
and we have exactly one guy currently > capable of that on our bench. >
> Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will say the > following
truisms. They are both rookies. Neither had seen > "playoff
intensity" before. Given Tony's >
 proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game > fouls is
Walker even an option? Would he be "that" > much worse? > > I
know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one > solitary second, but
"desperate times" and all > that. Unfortunately the chances were
earlier in the > series...I will be surprised to see any of the Celtic bench
> players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then > again... >
> -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com >
[mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene > kirkpatrick > Sent:
Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: re: Bummed
> > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you remember that > old
political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think > it's tough when
your assignment is 90% defense or 90% > move the ball and penetrate.? Tony
clearly has not been > looking to offense, and then he needs to take a shot
or two > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with Stephon--he's
 so > focused on not hurting us that he's not in rhythm to > shoot.?
Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I > understand they are role players,
but there are only 5 on > the court and eventually they will all need to
shoot.? Too > bad both of them had such a short time to get back into the
> full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go > further, I hope
we see more of them than less.? We need one > of them, at least, to step up.
> ? > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a defensive team > on
the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when > the other team is
frustrated offensively.? I would have > Perk and Tony on the floor to
protect the lane and decrease > the easier shots.? Swap out for offense if
you need Ray or > House on the floor, but be sure to defend. > ? > I
agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me, > although he begins
games looking loose. > ? > Gene? PS:? We drafted for athletic bench
help
 with > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or was > developed)
quickly enough. > > > >
_______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing
List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________ > The Boston
Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com >
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 13:14:01 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: tony
In-Reply-To: <mailman.161.1241230002.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.161.1241230002.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <624300.83702.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

enough with the tony bashing. he didn't cost us the game. we'll need him, marbury, house, scal and everyone else before this is all over. i'm confident we win this series tonight and move on. 

at this point, i'm more worried about pierce's health than anything else. with a healthy pierce, we have a chance. without, no chance. and clearly, something is wrong. if it's not his health, then he's just not playing well--much more selfish than last year and always a step behind on D.


      

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 13:46:30 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: boil it down
Message-ID: <897871.72286.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into one word or one player, but still it's Rondo.? I'm glad his difficult game was #6, with the hangover of "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.? If he is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I think we're in it.

Other things we need:? continued board dominance by Perk and his helpers, reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen, great spot playing by the next three guys, whoever they are, and the fierce desire that will keep the opponents down once we establish ourselves.

It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the way, we have to use a synthetic glue down South that's flexible in the heat).? Thirteen hours before I tune in.? There's not enough yard work, or shopping, or movies in sight.? Guess I can catch up on last week's Daily Show.? 
PS:? I think the team that survives beats the Magic.? We can talk about that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Sat May  2 13:53:36 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 09:53:36 -0400
Subject: boil it down
In-Reply-To: <897871.72286.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <897871.72286.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905021353.n42Drd8k016324@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

What, no desire to see the next X-Men franchise installment at the multiplex? I'll be hitting the links at 1700 this afternoon (barring a typical Georgia afternoon thunderstorm with chance of tornado) which should put me in front of the TV in the second quarter. My wish is that it'll be a double digit lead by our guys by that time, but know in fact it will be another heart attack in waiting.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:47 AM
To: celtics
Subject: boil it down

OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into one word or one player, but still it's Rondo.? I'm glad his difficult game was #6, with the hangover of "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.? If he is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I think we're in it.

Other things we need:? continued board dominance by Perk and his helpers, reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen, great spot playing by the next three guys, whoever they are, and the fierce desire that will keep the opponents down once we establish ourselves.

It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the way, we have to use a synthetic glue down South that's flexible in the heat).? Thirteen hours before I tune in.? There's not enough yard work, or shopping, or movies in sight.? Guess I can catch up on last week's Daily Show.? 
PS:? I think the team that survives beats the Magic.? We can talk about that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene



      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat May  2 17:21:36 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bummed
In-Reply-To: <200905021301.n42D1in9012105@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <444565.15238.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Nice post, Patrick.  But don't ever compare Tony Delk to Rondo, that's absurd :)

The TA on the box point is spot-on.  We waste TA on offense and then crucify him for missing shots as the shot clock winds down in the 4th quarter.  TA has had one post-up opportunity in this series, it came in game 1.  He was doubled immediately and passed weakside to Eddie House, who missed a three.  Why we never went back to it (or why House has continued to be the preferred 2 off the bench) I'll never know.  Lord knows we could use a low-post option at this point in the season and that we could use some FT and easy bucket opportunities, all of which TA-on-the-box brings...

I'm optimistic about tonight, but I have no idea what's going to happen.  All possibilities are in play.  I worry about another 04' kinda game 7, where we just got killed at home by 27 against Indiana.  I also have thoughts about a 08' game 7, like against Atlanta or even Cleveland, where we pulled through with heart.  It seems that Chicago has been hot from range all series, be it Hinrich or Rose or Gordon or Salmons--one of those guys is always having a good game.  Wouldn't it be nice to see all 4 struggle tonight?  

What makes me pessimistic is that our guys HAVE to be exhausted.  To top it off, they probably haven't slept very much since game 6 ended.  It was one of those games that sticks in your craw...even if you didn't have a game 7 coming up, the weight of which would also affect your sleep.  To me, we have a tired team--one that's playing 5 guys heavy minutes in a 7-game series which as featured 7 overtime periods--that probably has had some pretty hampered sleep these last two days.  Remember when nobody could sleep before game 7 against Atlanta?  It has to worse this year...and that's not good.  If I'm Doc, I lean on TA a lot in the first half to keep Paul and Ray fresh for the 2nd half...Rondo/Perk/Baby are just going to have to go off their youth, but Paul and Ray will need more of a break.  Lean on TA Doc!!!

Ryan


--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:01 AM
> In a word - no. He's Eddie House with a great first step
> and better handle. I don't mean that derogatorily to
> either man, but he's not what the Cs need. He
> doesn't defend (sometimes at all) and can exploited if
> we had a two guard or PG that could take him on the box (a
> guy with post skills like G. Payton or M. Jackson would kill
> him). Who primarily defended Ray when he went for his 51? If
> Ray had been hot in Games 1 or 3 we'd have won easily
> because of Gordon's defensive shortcomings. 
> 
> The Cs needs remain length - primarily at the 3, 4 or 5
> slots. The guy that would correct that need best - Prince
> from Detroit is the perfect fit as a guy that can lock down
> a wing player and hit big jumpers. We already know Posey fit
> as well. A long 4 (unlike Moore) who could get some boards
> and hit an open jumper (in Moore's defense he has hit
> the jumper in the past just not for us - but he's never
> been a good rebounder and Ainge DID miss that fact) is
> another necessity - doesn't have to be a stud (like WOTR
> keeps insisting it has to be - ie Rasheed) a consistent role
> player is all. 
> 
> Another thing - totally unrelated, but TA is a pretty good
> guy on the box - why we haven't used that aspect of his
> game vs Gordon instead of sticking him in the Eddie House
> (go stand over there and if your guy cheats off we'll
> either fake it to you or pass it with .6 seconds left on the
> shot clock) role on offense I have no idea. We've
> figured out that Perk on the box is actually an efficient
> scoring option (so much so that the Bulls have started
> DOUBLING him now - go figure) so it's not a huge leap.
> 
> As you can see - I'm not optimistic. I'm already
> talking about needs and "should've dones".
> Great team this year, greater heart and guts, but the loss
> of KG literally ripped the very soul of this team out.
> Without him we're the 2002 Celtics all over again with
> Baby playing Rodney Rogers and Rondo in the hot at the time
> Tony Delk role. Nice team, but not really even an Eastern
> Conference Finals contender (we were exposed against the
> Nets that year). Injuries may be part of sports, but
> they're more devestating "the year after" the
> Championship because it's at least more satisfying if
> the younger up and coming team reaches up and takes it away
> facing the full championship team from the year before then
> being left griping "well, if we'd only had KG
> things would've been different".
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler
> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 8:32 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> 
> 
> 
> The Bulls injured star is not a 4/5. They have Noah,
> Thomas, and Miller (btw, don't you wish *he* had been
> our pickup instead of Moore?)? We lost KG and Leon.?
> That's HUGE.?? And Salmons/Gordon have made up for
> Deng.?? The trade with Sacto gave them a great playoff
> roster. 
> 
> Anybody want to sign Ben Gordon?
> 
> Ellie
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:56 PM
> 
> Indeed. Powe was our second quickest big after Garnett. Two
> blows to the same
> weak spot.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of
> asterix ninetynine
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:54 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Bummed
> 
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned that besides not
> having Garnett,
> we're also without Powe.? I don't think Noah or
> Thomas would be nearly
> as effective with a healthy Leon in there.
> 
> Agree we need to cut bait with Tony Allen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil"
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
> Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:45:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Bummed
> 
> While I'd love to agree that we'll win with
> defense...I'm not so
> sure I agree. The single area in which we do not match up
> well with Da Bulls is
> quickness. We are out-quicked at every single position
> except PG. While our team
> based defense is well tuned to defend rotationally against
> pass the ball
> offenses, we are being exposed by the quickness disparity
> especially at the end
> of games. It's why during the course of the game we get
> so many
> "takeaways" on bad passing decisions by almost
> all the Bulls players
> and then when they go spread "all one on one"
> without any passing late
> in the game (and overtime) they have generally good
> offensive success. (It's
> why for all the Doc haters - Del Negro is being
> outcoached...if he went all
> spread and ditched the passing half court offense the Cs
> are done like dinner).
> -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent:
> Friday, May 01, 2009
> 2:30 PM To:
>  The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Bummed
> Actually, that's not a
> question worth asking. I love Bill Walker but he would get
> owned on defense. Not
> that he doesn't have talent, but the refs would give
> him no respect.
> We'll win on Saturday with defense. To me, that means
> TA should get all the
> 2/3 minutes and Marbury should only play if Rondo needs to
> rest. House ONLY for
> situations that our offense only. Ryan --- On Fri, 5/1/09,
> Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: > From:
> Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil >
> Subject: RE: Bummed > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date:
> Friday, May 1, 2009,
> 12:58 PM > 'Where is Bill Walker?' is a question
> worth asking. >
> The one single area the Celtics need a HUGE boost - high
> > energy athleticism
> and we have exactly one guy currently > capable of that
> on our bench. >
> > Now I'm not equating Walker to Rose, but I will
> say the > following
> truisms. They are both rookies. Neither had seen >
> "playoff
> intensity" before. Given Tony's >
>  proclivity for ill-timed offensive end gaffs and late game
> > fouls is
> Walker even an option? Would he be "that" >
> much worse? > > I
> know in Doc's mind he isn't going to play one >
> solitary second, but
> "desperate times" and all > that.
> Unfortunately the chances were
> earlier in the > series...I will be surprised to see any
> of the Celtic bench
> > players at all in Game 7. Hyperbole? Maybe, but then
> > again... >
> > -----Original Message----- > From:
> celtics-bounces at igtc.com >
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene >
> kirkpatrick > Sent:
> Friday, May 01, 2009 1:49 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com >
> Subject: re: Bummed
> > > I'm mad, too, Eddie.? Well, some of you
> remember that > old
> political ad.? Regarding Tony and Stephon--I think >
> it's tough when
> your assignment is 90% defense or 90% > move the ball
> and penetrate.? Tony
> clearly has not been > looking to offense, and then he
> needs to take a shot
> or two > and isn't in rhythm.? Same with
> Stephon--he's
>  so > focused on not hurting us that he's not in
> rhythm to > shoot.?
> Tony can score and Stephon can shoot.? I > understand
> they are role players,
> but there are only 5 on > the court and eventually they
> will all need to
> shoot.? Too > bad both of them had such a short time to
> get back into the
> > full rhythm of their games before playoffs.? If we go
> > further, I hope
> we see more of them than less.? We need one > of them,
> at least, to step up.
> > ? > I have long felt that crunch time demanded a
> defensive team > on
> the court.? It's easier to catch up or hold on when
> > the other team is
> frustrated offensively.? I would have > Perk and Tony
> on the floor to
> protect the lane and decrease > the easier shots.? Swap
> out for offense if
> you need Ray or > House on the floor, but be sure to
> defend. > ? > I
> agree that Pierce is hurt; it looks like his back to me,
> > although he begins
> games looking loose. > ? > Gene? PS:? We drafted
> for athletic bench
> help
>  with > Giddens & Walker but neither developed (or
> was > developed)
> quickly enough. > > > >
> _______________________________________________ > The
> Boston Celtics Mailing
> List > celtics at igtc.com >
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston
> Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com >
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________ The Boston
> Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________ The Boston
> Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 03:07:35 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 23:07:35 -0400
Subject: But, but, but
Message-ID: <0KJ100LD4SX6L979@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>

I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in 2009
Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sun May  3 03:27:41 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 20:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
Message-ID: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
?
Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy walker?
?
A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2 quarters later. How can they do that but not take points away when a team has 6 players on the court?
?
?
?
?
?


--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:


From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: But, but, but
To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM


I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in 2009
Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 04:10:47 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 00:10:47 -0400
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJ1009QQVUNNQPB@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

At 11:27 PM 5/2/2009, John Lyell wrote:
>Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
>
>Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy walker?

Not getting eaten alive on the court. I love Billy, genuinely love 
him, and he's clearly going to be a keeper, but no. You wanted smart 
experience (especially where it came with a bit of extra height, a 
big issue that made Chicago a dangerous match up even if we were 
healthy) who wasn't going to cost you through inexperience, more than 
you needed the extra athleticism with even higher risk in this sort 
of series. Defense with schemes not one player's athleticism. That's 
why Tony didn't see a lot of minutes. The defense wasn't necessarily 
worth the lost possessions, turnovers and bad shots (someone talked 
about inserting him as someone able to drive to the hoop, which is 
certainly true enough, but have they been watching this season to see 
just how often those drives fell short of the basket?) on offense. 
Especially because when his offense is shaky he lets it get in his 
head and affect his defense rather than turning up his defense to 
make up for it.

>A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2 quarters later. 
>How can they do that but not take points away when a team has 6 
>players on the court?

Honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the refs and the same bad 
calls like that 6 players (which per Grande, who I trust, was 
actually called the way it is written, like it or not). Refs make bad 
calls every game. Yes, this is an issue. But they make them both ways 
whether we want to believe that or not. And they still don't cost you 
the game, because there are always stupid things you did during the 
game that could have made their bad calls a non-issue. Bad calls are 
just one more thing to get past, like an injury or having to play 
someone undersized against his opponent. Focusing on the refs is SUCH 
a loser mentality. It's looking for excuses rather than looking to 
yourself, which is the thing you are responsible for, and I got a 
belly full of looking for excuses during the ML and Pitino years. One 
of the things I've liked about Doc from the start is that he neither 
looks for nor accepts them.

/soapbox
Kim




>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
>Subject: But, but, but
>To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
>Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
>
>
>I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in 2009
>Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 04:56:49 2009
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 21:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Couldn't be prouder
Message-ID: <824574.45492.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


So great to watch the entire team step up tonight (although I'm sure Snoopy was losing his mind over all the missed FTs).  

Kudos to the Chicago Bulls.  As great as Bucks '74, Sixers '81 (and, to be fair, '82), Lakers '84, Pistons '87, and Pacers '91 were, I'm pretty sure this one tops them all.  

Death to Ron Jeremy and the Mouseketeers!

Michael Gooen


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sun May  3 14:17:26 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
Message-ID: <345302.41024.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think anyone would agree Walker's chances are better than Scal's. Scal makes his share of bad fouls, judgements & passes, although he does have a better perimeter game.
?
As far as Doc, he got booted and fined a couple of times this year, likley more than other coaches I can recall, for complaining about ref calls. So he just doesn't accept them all.
?
Agreed in general they do go both ways, but not always.
?

--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:


From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: But, but, but
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 9:10 PM


At 11:27 PM 5/2/2009, John Lyell wrote:
>Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
>
>Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy walker?

Not getting eaten alive on the court. I love Billy, genuinely love 
him, and he's clearly going to be a keeper, but no. You wanted smart 
experience (especially where it came with a bit of extra height, a 
big issue that made Chicago a dangerous match up even if we were 
healthy) who wasn't going to cost you through inexperience, more than 
you needed the extra athleticism with even higher risk in this sort 
of series. Defense with schemes not one player's athleticism. That's 
why Tony didn't see a lot of minutes. The defense wasn't necessarily 
worth the lost possessions, turnovers and bad shots (someone talked 
about inserting him as someone able to drive to the hoop, which is 
certainly true enough, but have they been watching this season to see 
just how often those drives fell short of the basket?) on offense. 
Especially because when his offense is shaky he lets it get in his 
head and affect his defense rather than turning up his defense to 
make up for it.

>A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2 quarters later. 
>How can they do that but not take points away when a team has 6 
>players on the court?

Honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the refs and the same bad 
calls like that 6 players (which per Grande, who I trust, was 
actually called the way it is written, like it or not). Refs make bad 
calls every game. Yes, this is an issue. But they make them both ways 
whether we want to believe that or not. And they still don't cost you 
the game, because there are always stupid things you did during the 
game that could have made their bad calls a non-issue. Bad calls are 
just one more thing to get past, like an injury or having to play 
someone undersized against his opponent. Focusing on the refs is SUCH 
a loser mentality. It's looking for excuses rather than looking to 
yourself, which is the thing you are responsible for, and I got a 
belly full of looking for excuses during the ML and Pitino years. One 
of the things I've liked about Doc from the start is that he neither 
looks for nor accepts them.

/soapbox
Kim




>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
>Subject: But, but, but
>To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
>Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
>
>
>I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in 2009
>Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>_______________________________________________
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>celtics at igtc.com
>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 14:48:34 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:48:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <907049.40347.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I don't think Scal ever guarded Gordon except when he had to switch on him after a pick.  Scal actually played Salmons for a stretch when the Bulls went small--and he did alright.

Everyone off the bench played great, even Mikki Moore got 4 points and took a charge in limited minutes.

Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger props to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If he plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get off the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for Eddie.  I was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was just moving faster than he had all series.  And that effort spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see.

The NBA made the right call on the missed three, even if they had to break the rules to do it.  According to NBA rules, a contested three point shot can only be reviewed at the next stoppage in play; if it's not, then it doesn't matter what the replay showed, you can't overrule the original ruling later in the game.  The Bulls called the league office and complained during half time and the league office did the right thing (because it was CLEARLY a three-pointer).  I can't help but think that the league allowed the rules to be bent because of what happened to the Cs in Portland with 6 men on the court.  The officials were just following the rules in that game too, and when the Cs called the league office the league just sat on their hands and did nothing.  But maybe the experience taught them something.

Ryan


--- On Sat, 5/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: But, but, but
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 10:27 PM
> Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> ?
> Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy
> walker?
> ?
> A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2
> quarters later. How can they do that but not take points
> away when a team has 6 players on the court?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: But, but, but
> To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> 
> 
> I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in
> 2009
> Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 15:04:37 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 08:04:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for want of a KG . . . 
Message-ID: <733506.55405.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere without the great one.? That he was ready to give us about 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going down.? At the same time, it means he will be more costly to re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for the future.

I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development & costing us in the first round.? Posey can't do the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling off.? And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the perimeter.? (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's "with all due respect.")

The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.? His quick release and deadly three are a problem.? Otherwise, they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some reason--favored.? That's good.? Losing to the Bulls would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit becomes.? I think we're better than everyone else, of course.? Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.? (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).? 

Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or shoot us crazy like the Bulls.? They can just play, inside and out, very consistently.? Perk and Baby can frustrate Howard, we hope.? And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis and Turgolu.? Our defensive system is the key to staying close and winning on experience & talent.? Then there's the foul problem.

Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.? Cheers, Gene



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Sun May  3 15:20:44 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:20:44 -0400
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <907049.40347.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<907049.40347.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905031520.n43FKnWa006574@apollo.afrc.af.mil>


"Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger props to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If he plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get off the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for Eddie.  I was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was just moving faster than he had all series.  And that effort spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see." - Ryan

Actually the real props go to the coach that finally figured out to have whoever on the Cs that had Gordon on him pick for Pierce to create the switch. In every case (the biggies being when House did it and got WIDE open three looks) - Gordon couldn't cover Pierce, the man who switched (or someone else) came to help Gordon with a double team on Pierce and he found the open man (or the man coming to double was late and fouled Pierce).  It was finally an adjustment that made the Bulls absolutely suffer for having Gordon on the defensive end at all and was nice to see.

And I disagree - House was able to really manhandle Gordon (clutching grabbing) through the picks and the refs either didn't catch it or let go all but a couple instances late. Yes he hustled, but he also got beat twice badly late, but got saved by the rotational help defense.



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:49 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: But, but, but


I don't think Scal ever guarded Gordon except when he had to switch on him after a pick.  Scal actually played Salmons for a stretch when the Bulls went small--and he did alright.

Everyone off the bench played great, even Mikki Moore got 4 points and took a charge in limited minutes.

Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger props to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If he plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get off the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for Eddie.  I was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was just moving faster than he had all series.  And that effort spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see.

The NBA made the right call on the missed three, even if they had to break the rules to do it.  According to NBA rules, a contested three point shot can only be reviewed at the next stoppage in play; if it's not, then it doesn't matter what the replay showed, you can't overrule the original ruling later in the game.  The Bulls called the league office and complained during half time and the league office did the right thing (because it was CLEARLY a three-pointer).  I can't help but think that the league allowed the rules to be bent because of what happened to the Cs in Portland with 6 men on the court.  The officials were just following the rules in that game too, and when the Cs called the league office the league just sat on their hands and did nothing.  But maybe the experience taught them something.

Ryan


--- On Sat, 5/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: But, but, but
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 10:27 PM
> Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> ?
> Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy
> walker?
> ?
> A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2
> quarters later. How can they do that but not take points
> away when a team has 6 players on the court?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: But, but, but
> To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> 
> 
> I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in
> 2009
> Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 16:03:06 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <200905031520.n43FKnWa006573@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <789855.78784.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yeah, I didn't say Eddie wasn't lucky last night.  Hell, he should have gotten an assist on his first bucket after the way he carelessly passed to Rondo only to have it deflected by Noah right back to him--in rhythm--for his first 3 pointer.

His defense was a lot of clutching and grabbing--but--and this is the important part--he was hustling when he did it.  If you clutch and grab and don't move your feet, you'll get a foul.  If you do it when you're hustling, it probably won't get called in the playoffs.  Actually, there was one play in the middle of the 4th quarter where Eddie failed to hustle and let Hinrich get a WIDE OPEN three.  Other than that, the effort was there all night...even if there was some fouling and some off play from Gordon (his late runner, after beating House, which came up short, had been going down ALL SERIES for Gordon), House brought the energy.  And that's the key for the bench--bring the energy on defense.  Last night, every one of them did that and we won because they did.

Good spot on the offensive adjustment.  It was about 6 games late.  We should have been exploiting Gordon in every way imaginable--on the ball picks, running him through screens, on the box--all series.  We only did it intermittently and it almost cost us.

Ryan


--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: But, but, but
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:20 AM
> "Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger
> props to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If
> he plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get
> off the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for
> Eddie.  I was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was
> just moving faster than he had all series.  And that effort
> spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting
> open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he
> found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see."
> - Ryan
> 
> Actually the real props go to the coach that finally
> figured out to have whoever on the Cs that had Gordon on him
> pick for Pierce to create the switch. In every case (the
> biggies being when House did it and got WIDE open three
> looks) - Gordon couldn't cover Pierce, the man who
> switched (or someone else) came to help Gordon with a double
> team on Pierce and he found the open man (or the man coming
> to double was late and fouled Pierce).  It was finally an
> adjustment that made the Bulls absolutely suffer for having
> Gordon on the defensive end at all and was nice to see.
> 
> And I disagree - House was able to really manhandle Gordon
> (clutching grabbing) through the picks and the refs either
> didn't catch it or let go all but a couple instances
> late. Yes he hustled, but he also got beat twice badly late,
> but got saved by the rotational help defense.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: But, but, but
> 
> 
> I don't think Scal ever guarded Gordon except when he
> had to switch on him after a pick.  Scal actually played
> Salmons for a stretch when the Bulls went small--and he did
> alright.
> 
> Everyone off the bench played great, even Mikki Moore got 4
> points and took a charge in limited minutes.
> 
> Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger props
> to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If he
> plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get off
> the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for Eddie.  I
> was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was just moving
> faster than he had all series.  And that effort spilled over
> the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting open all
> series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he found the
> seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see.
> 
> The NBA made the right call on the missed three, even if
> they had to break the rules to do it.  According to NBA
> rules, a contested three point shot can only be reviewed at
> the next stoppage in play; if it's not, then it
> doesn't matter what the replay showed, you can't
> overrule the original ruling later in the game.  The Bulls
> called the league office and complained during half time and
> the league office did the right thing (because it was
> CLEARLY a three-pointer).  I can't help but think that
> the league allowed the rules to be bent because of what
> happened to the Cs in Portland with 6 men on the court.  The
> officials were just following the rules in that game too,
> and when the Cs called the league office the league just sat
> on their hands and did nothing.  But maybe the experience
> taught them something.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 5/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: But, but, but
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 10:27 PM
> > Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> > ?
> > Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was
> billy
> > walker?
> > ?
> > A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2
> > quarters later. How can they do that but not take
> points
> > away when a team has 6 players on the court?
> > ?
> > ?
> > ?
> > ?
> > ?
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo
> <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> > Subject: But, but, but
> > To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> > 
> > 
> > I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters
> in
> > 2009
> > Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 16:13:28 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <733506.55405.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be a star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent clutchness.  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really score...

You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not personally, but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.

The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will be needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting lineup at the 3, just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc Spears prior to game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so starting him might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup with be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1 and adjust as needed down the line.  

I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would have beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.  We'll need more production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy at the point has been good though) and I also expect House to play better (Chicago was a bad matchup...Orlando should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the only player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even Mikki Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby get in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.

Ryan
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the
> door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere
> without the great one.? That he was ready to give us about
> 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going
> down.? At the same time, it means he will be more costly to
> re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for
> the future.
> 
> I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's
> playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development
> & costing us in the first round.? Posey can't do
> the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
> off.? And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the
> perimeter.? (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's
> "with all due respect.")
> 
> The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.? His
> quick release and deadly three are a problem.? Otherwise,
> they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great
> point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some
> reason--favored.? That's good.? Losing to the Bulls
> would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit
> becomes.? I think we're better than everyone else, of
> course.? Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.?
> (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they
> have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).? 
> 
> Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or
> shoot us crazy like the Bulls.? They can just play, inside
> and out, very consistently.? Perk and Baby can frustrate
> Howard, we hope.? And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis
> and Turgolu.? Our defensive system is the key to staying
> close and winning on experience & talent.? Then
> there's the foul problem.
> 
> Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second
> quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.?
> Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 17:33:25 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:33:25 -0400
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <907049.40347.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <893575.71876.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<907049.40347.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJ200DLPWS9RT6K@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>

At 10:48 AM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:

>I don't think Scal ever guarded Gordon except when he had to switch 
>on him after a pick.  Scal actually played Salmons for a stretch 
>when the Bulls went small--and he did alright.

No, but I think he was just arguing who to give minutes to, bringing 
Gordon in as a specific target who would make Billy more desireable.

>Everyone off the bench played great, even Mikki Moore got 4 points 
>and took a charge in limited minutes.

Yup. Got a couple of boards too, which he's been very weak on and 
which is where we really suffer with Perk out. Huge contribution 
statwise? No. But the mere fact that he came in and made a positive 
contribution vs being invisible or an active liability was a huge step forward.

>Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger props to Eddie 
>for playing the best defense of his life.  If he plays defense like 
>he did last night, TA will never get off the bench.  Just a 
>phenomenal defensive effort for Eddie.  I was watching him and it 
>was all EFFORT.  He was just moving faster than he had all 
>series.  And that effort spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't 
>been getting open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he 
>found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see.

No question. Even Doc made a point of mentioning it. And it's what's 
been keeping him off the floor up until now because his defense was 
weak enough that given how key the Bulls guards were to their game, 
if he wasn't scoring we couldn't afford to have them out there. And 
maybe not even if he was. Of course you point to key thing that is 
the essence of defense - effort.  Good point about it carrying over 
to his offense. Eddie is SUCH a rhythm player that it makes sense 
that would happen even if the opposite hasn't usually (see that 
effort thing <wry grin>)

>The NBA made the right call on the missed three, even if they had to 
>break the rules to do it.  According to NBA rules, a contested three 
>point shot can only be reviewed at the next stoppage in play; if 
>it's not, then it doesn't matter what the replay showed, you can't 
>overrule the original ruling later in the game.  The Bulls called 
>the league office and complained during half time and the league 
>office did the right thing (because it was CLEARLY a 
>three-pointer).  I can't help but think that the league allowed the 
>rules to be bent because of what happened to the Cs in Portland with 
>6 men on the court.  The officials were just following the rules in 
>that game too, and when the Cs called the league office the league 
>just sat on their hands and did nothing.  But maybe the experience 
>taught them something.

Entirely possible, especially given how closely you know they were 
watching this one and trying to make sure that it was decided by actual play.
Always makes me twitchy when we agree this much Ryan : )
Kim 


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 17:43:20 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:43:20 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <733506.55405.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJ200EXYX8TRULX@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:13 PM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:

>Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be 
>a star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent 
>clutchness.  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to 
>fail.  If he adds a three point shot, I think he could be an 
>All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if 
>wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has 
>been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really score...

Actually add another, although I agree big time about his not wilting 
under the spotlight. But I didn't think he was capable of the 
discipline to actually work on improving his game as much as he has 
vs relying on the size and athleticism that has always been enough 
for him before. I'm very glad to be wrong about that. He's not just 
improving through playing time / experience, he's actually looked at 
where his flaws are and tried to do something about them 
specifically. I don't think he'll ever be a certifiable star 
(although we may just define that differently) but that willingness 
to work and apply self-discipline will take him to a lot better 
career than I thought he was headed for.

Kim 


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 18:48:03 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: walker
In-Reply-To: <mailman.170.1241367217.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.170.1241367217.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <482249.69883.qm@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

not me. i like walker, but i think he'd be lost if we sent him out there. he'll have his day--it just won't be in these playoff games. 

i'm not saying walker should never get off  the bench in the playoffs, just that scal gives us much more experience, which is always needed in the playoffs. 

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: But, but, but
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <345302.41024.qm at web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I think anyone would agree Walker's chances are better than Scal's. Scal makes his share of bad fouls, judgements & passes, although he does have a better perimeter game.
?
As far as Doc, he got booted and fined a couple of times this year, likley more than other coaches I can recall, for complaining about ref calls. So he just doesn't accept them all.
?
Agreed in general they do go both ways, but not always.
?


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Sun May  3 19:15:10 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 15:15:10 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <0KJ200EXYX8TRULX@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20090503151510.K5Z08.144869.imail@eastrmwml38>

I would suspect that Clifford Ray had some influence on Baby's development.  He always had quick feet for a very large dude, but he seems like he's moving his feet even quicker this season, and a testament to that is his ability to draw the charge.  You don't see too many 290 lb tanks run the floor as fast as he does.  Of course, it also explains why he's sucking wind after long stretches.
---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote: 
> At 12:13 PM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> 
> >Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be 
> >a star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent 
> >clutchness.  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to 
> >fail.  If he adds a three point shot, I think he could be an 
> >All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if 
> >wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has 
> >been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really score...
> 
> Actually add another, although I agree big time about his not wilting 
> under the spotlight. But I didn't think he was capable of the 
> discipline to actually work on improving his game as much as he has 
> vs relying on the size and athleticism that has always been enough 
> for him before. I'm very glad to be wrong about that. He's not just 
> improving through playing time / experience, he's actually looked at 
> where his flaws are and tried to do something about them 
> specifically. I don't think he'll ever be a certifiable star 
> (although we may just define that differently) but that willingness 
> to work and apply self-discipline will take him to a lot better 
> career than I thought he was headed for.
> 
> Kim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 19:42:53 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 12:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: working in Walker
Message-ID: <934033.47618.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Put him in for Pierce and give him three minutes with the other starters.? Let him guard a SF and get in the flow.? Repeat in the second half, if possible.? Let him take open shots and play defense.? If there's any garbage time, let him have it instead of Scal.? If we move on to the next series, try it some more.? We could very well see an injury or disqualification for fouls along the way.? I think it makes sense to have someone other than Scal ready for duty.? My prejudice is that this should have been done since January, without fail.? Anyway, I wonder if we'll worry as much about home court and more about health and development of the bench next year.? Gene



      

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 20:10:01 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:10:01 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <20090503151510.K5Z08.144869.imail@eastrmwml38>
References: <0KJ200EXYX8TRULX@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
	<20090503151510.K5Z08.144869.imail@eastrmwml38>
Message-ID: <0KJ300CY641JG48O@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>

At 03:15 PM 5/3/2009, martind42 at cox.net wrote:
>I would suspect that Clifford Ray had some influence on Baby's 
>development.  He always had quick feet for a very large dude, but he 
>seems like he's moving his feet even quicker this season, and a 
>testament to that is his ability to draw the charge.  You don't see 
>too many 290 lb tanks run the floor as fast as he does.  Of course, 
>it also explains why he's sucking wind after long stretches.

Oh no question, true of all our big men. But it was the attitude, the 
discipline and willingness to work, I had major doubts about after 
least season, not that the coaches were trying to tell him things. 
Clifford could try to influence until he was blue in the face and it 
just wasn't going to happen, or at least not to this degree unless 
Baby was willing to work hard at learning to become a smarter, more 
effective basketball player rather than the uncontrolled force of 
nature he was on the court last year. I think that force of nature 
had always been enough before, so he'd never had to work like that vs 
just expend energy on the court, but this year he's turning into a 
real pro basketball player before our eyes.

You're absolutely right about his very nimble feet for his size BTW. 
Probably the second thing I noticed about him. Although IMO the 
sucking wind had more to do with what kind of shape he was in - see 
comments about lack of discipline, etc It's still a lot of weight to 
hump around but he's clearly in better shape this year and so has had 
lot less trouble doing so once he got adjusted to playing more 
minutes, which would be an issue for most bench players.
Kim


From bosox18 at charter.net  Sun May  3 20:49:07 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (bosox18 at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 16:49:07 -0400
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <0KJ1009QQVUNNQPB@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20090503164907.7E4IT.2016377.root@mp06>

OK, but that foul that was called on Pierce when Hinrich tripped over his own feet -- with Pierce five feet away -- might have been the worst call ever :-)

Steve O

---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote: 
> At 11:27 PM 5/2/2009, John Lyell wrote:
> >Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> >
> >Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was billy walker?
> 
> Not getting eaten alive on the court. I love Billy, genuinely love 
> him, and he's clearly going to be a keeper, but no. You wanted smart 
> experience (especially where it came with a bit of extra height, a 
> big issue that made Chicago a dangerous match up even if we were 
> healthy) who wasn't going to cost you through inexperience, more than 
> you needed the extra athleticism with even higher risk in this sort 
> of series. Defense with schemes not one player's athleticism. That's 
> why Tony didn't see a lot of minutes. The defense wasn't necessarily 
> worth the lost possessions, turnovers and bad shots (someone talked 
> about inserting him as someone able to drive to the hoop, which is 
> certainly true enough, but have they been watching this season to see 
> just how often those drives fell short of the basket?) on offense. 
> Especially because when his offense is shaky he lets it get in his 
> head and affect his defense rather than turning up his defense to 
> make up for it.
> 
> >A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point 2 quarters later. 
> >How can they do that but not take points away when a team has 6 
> >players on the court?
> 
> Honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the refs and the same bad 
> calls like that 6 players (which per Grande, who I trust, was 
> actually called the way it is written, like it or not). Refs make bad 
> calls every game. Yes, this is an issue. But they make them both ways 
> whether we want to believe that or not. And they still don't cost you 
> the game, because there are always stupid things you did during the 
> game that could have made their bad calls a non-issue. Bad calls are 
> just one more thing to get past, like an injury or having to play 
> someone undersized against his opponent. Focusing on the refs is SUCH 
> a loser mentality. It's looking for excuses rather than looking to 
> yourself, which is the thing you are responsible for, and I got a 
> belly full of looking for excuses during the ML and Pitino years. One 
> of the things I've liked about Doc from the start is that he neither 
> looks for nor accepts them.
> 
> /soapbox
> Kim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> >Subject: But, but, but
> >To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> >
> >
> >I thought playoff games had to run at least 5 quarters in 2009
> >Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >celtics at igtc.com
> >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >_______________________________________________
> >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >celtics at igtc.com
> >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 20:53:44 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <20090503164907.7E4IT.2016377.root@mp06>
Message-ID: <627777.76726.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yep, and the tech on Perk was a crock as well.  Last night's game was not well-officiated in the least....

Ryan


--- On Sun, 5/3/09, bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

> From: bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: But, but, but
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 3:49 PM
> OK, but that foul that was called on Pierce when Hinrich
> tripped over his own feet -- with Pierce five feet away --
> might have been the worst call ever :-)
> 
> Steve O
> 
> ---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote: 
> > At 11:27 PM 5/2/2009, John Lyell wrote:
> > >Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> > >
> > >Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was
> billy walker?
> > 
> > Not getting eaten alive on the court. I love Billy,
> genuinely love 
> > him, and he's clearly going to be a keeper, but
> no. You wanted smart 
> > experience (especially where it came with a bit of
> extra height, a 
> > big issue that made Chicago a dangerous match up even
> if we were 
> > healthy) who wasn't going to cost you through
> inexperience, more than 
> > you needed the extra athleticism with even higher risk
> in this sort 
> > of series. Defense with schemes not one player's
> athleticism. That's 
> > why Tony didn't see a lot of minutes. The defense
> wasn't necessarily 
> > worth the lost possessions, turnovers and bad shots
> (someone talked 
> > about inserting him as someone able to drive to the
> hoop, which is 
> > certainly true enough, but have they been watching
> this season to see 
> > just how often those drives fell short of the basket?)
> on offense. 
> > Especially because when his offense is shaky he lets
> it get in his 
> > head and affect his defense rather than turning up his
> defense to 
> > make up for it.
> > 
> > >A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point
> 2 quarters later. 
> > >How can they do that but not take points away when
> a team has 6 
> > >players on the court?
> > 
> > Honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the
> refs and the same bad 
> > calls like that 6 players (which per Grande, who I
> trust, was 
> > actually called the way it is written, like it or
> not). Refs make bad 
> > calls every game. Yes, this is an issue. But they make
> them both ways 
> > whether we want to believe that or not. And they still
> don't cost you 
> > the game, because there are always stupid things you
> did during the 
> > game that could have made their bad calls a non-issue.
> Bad calls are 
> > just one more thing to get past, like an injury or
> having to play 
> > someone undersized against his opponent. Focusing on
> the refs is SUCH 
> > a loser mentality. It's looking for excuses rather
> than looking to 
> > yourself, which is the thing you are responsible for,
> and I got a 
> > belly full of looking for excuses during the ML and
> Pitino years. One 
> > of the things I've liked about Doc from the start
> is that he neither 
> > looks for nor accepts them.
> > 
> > /soapbox
> > Kim
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo
> <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> > >Subject: But, but, but
> > >To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > >Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >I thought playoff games had to run at least 5
> quarters in 2009
> > >Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >celtics at igtc.com
> > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >celtics at igtc.com
> > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From bosox18 at charter.net  Sun May  3 20:59:43 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (bosox18 at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:59:43 -0700
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>

I think you're seeing Big Baby through the same green-colored glasses that showed Gabe Pruitt as the vastly superior version of Delonte West.

He's working hard and doing more than could be expected given the Garnett and Powe injuries, but he's a seriously restricted player and always will be. He's not a particularly good rebounder, he can't block shots and he has Antoine-like problems finishing on the inside -- all of which are important qualities for a power forward. 

Yes, he's got quick feet for his size, he works hard, throws a mean pick, doesn't have a big ego. It's great that he's improved his perimeter shot so much, but it's not like he's Dirk Nowitzki from the outside. 

Big Baby is a handy backup player, but I don't think he's a starter for a good team, and not a star for anybody. The C's would still be better off right now if they had Leon's rebounding and high percentage scoring.

Steve O


---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be a star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent clutchness.  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really score...
> 
> You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not personally, but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.
> 
> The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will be needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting lineup at the 3, just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc Spears prior to game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so starting him might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup with be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1 and adjust as needed down the line.  
> 
> I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would have beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.  We'll need more production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy at the point has been good though) and I also expect House to play better (Chicago was a bad matchup...Orlando should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the only player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even Mikki Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby get in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> > To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> > Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the
> > door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere
> > without the great one.? That he was ready to give us about
> > 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going
> > down.? At the same time, it means he will be more costly to
> > re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for
> > the future.
> > 
> > I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's
> > playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development
> > & costing us in the first round.? Posey can't do
> > the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
> > off.? And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the
> > perimeter.? (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's
> > "with all due respect.")
> > 
> > The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.? His
> > quick release and deadly three are a problem.? Otherwise,
> > they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great
> > point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some
> > reason--favored.? That's good.? Losing to the Bulls
> > would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit
> > becomes.? I think we're better than everyone else, of
> > course.? Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.?
> > (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they
> > have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).? 
> > 
> > Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or
> > shoot us crazy like the Bulls.? They can just play, inside
> > and out, very consistently.? Perk and Baby can frustrate
> > Howard, we hope.? And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis
> > and Turgolu.? Our defensive system is the key to staying
> > close and winning on experience & talent.? Then
> > there's the foul problem.
> > 
> > Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second
> > quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.?
> > Cheers, Gene
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From bosox18 at charter.net  Sun May  3 21:00:40 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (bosox18 at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:00:40 -0700
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <627777.76726.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090503170040.3BMZ2.2016799.root@mp06>

On that we agree, terribly called on both sides.

Steve O
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Yep, and the tech on Perk was a crock as well.  Last night's game was not well-officiated in the least....
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/3/09, bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net>
> > Subject: Re: But, but, but
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 3:49 PM
> > OK, but that foul that was called on Pierce when Hinrich
> > tripped over his own feet -- with Pierce five feet away --
> > might have been the worst call ever :-)
> > 
> > Steve O
> > 
> > ---- Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote: 
> > > At 11:27 PM 5/2/2009, John Lyell wrote:
> > > >Great team win. Big shots by Eddie and even Scal
> > > >
> > > >Not sure of Doc playing scal on gordon, where was
> > billy walker?
> > > 
> > > Not getting eaten alive on the court. I love Billy,
> > genuinely love 
> > > him, and he's clearly going to be a keeper, but
> > no. You wanted smart 
> > > experience (especially where it came with a bit of
> > extra height, a 
> > > big issue that made Chicago a dangerous match up even
> > if we were 
> > > healthy) who wasn't going to cost you through
> > inexperience, more than 
> > > you needed the extra athleticism with even higher risk
> > in this sort 
> > > of series. Defense with schemes not one player's
> > athleticism. That's 
> > > why Tony didn't see a lot of minutes. The defense
> > wasn't necessarily 
> > > worth the lost possessions, turnovers and bad shots
> > (someone talked 
> > > about inserting him as someone able to drive to the
> > hoop, which is 
> > > certainly true enough, but have they been watching
> > this season to see 
> > > just how often those drives fell short of the basket?)
> > on offense. 
> > > Especially because when his offense is shaky he lets
> > it get in his 
> > > head and affect his defense rather than turning up his
> > defense to 
> > > make up for it.
> > > 
> > > >A lot of bad foul calls, and hey, lets add a point
> > 2 quarters later. 
> > > >How can they do that but not take points away when
> > a team has 6 
> > > >players on the court?
> > > 
> > > Honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the
> > refs and the same bad 
> > > calls like that 6 players (which per Grande, who I
> > trust, was 
> > > actually called the way it is written, like it or
> > not). Refs make bad 
> > > calls every game. Yes, this is an issue. But they make
> > them both ways 
> > > whether we want to believe that or not. And they still
> > don't cost you 
> > > the game, because there are always stupid things you
> > did during the 
> > > game that could have made their bad calls a non-issue.
> > Bad calls are 
> > > just one more thing to get past, like an injury or
> > having to play 
> > > someone undersized against his opponent. Focusing on
> > the refs is SUCH 
> > > a loser mentality. It's looking for excuses rather
> > than looking to 
> > > yourself, which is the thing you are responsible for,
> > and I got a 
> > > belly full of looking for excuses during the ML and
> > Pitino years. One 
> > > of the things I've liked about Doc from the start
> > is that he neither 
> > > looks for nor accepts them.
> > > 
> > > /soapbox
> > > Kim
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- On Sat, 5/2/09, Kim Malo
> > <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> > > >Subject: But, but, but
> > > >To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > >Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I thought playoff games had to run at least 5
> > quarters in 2009
> > > >Yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > >celtics at igtc.com
> > > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > >celtics at igtc.com
> > > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 21:05:27 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <0KJ200EXYX8TRULX@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <473874.57613.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Well, the dude is already a star if you watch him being interviewed...he has a star's personality.

Good point about working on his deficiencies...he's definitely put in the work and there's been real improvement since his rookie season.  Clifford Ray, as was mentioned in another post, has surely been a help, but let's not forget KG.  I feel like KG has really taken him under his wing in one important area: intensity.  Baby has physical limitations but if he plays with energy he has the ability to overcome them.  THAT's been the difference for me this season.  Sure, he put in the work on the jumper in the offseason.  But he's also put work into another area--the ability the bring big time energy and intensity when he's on the court, bringing it with intelligence and purpose for upwards of 40 minutes on some nights.  When he plays with that kind of energy, he's an absolute load on both ends...and I think he's really honed that ability under KG's guidance (and KG's the absolute master of bringing energy and intensity to the game).  And it's that
 ability--the ability to focus and concentrate and expend energy constantly and consistently during one's time on the court--that gives Baby the chance to be an All-Star one day (that and his uncanny ability to score).

Ryan


--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: for want of a KG . . .
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 12:43 PM
> At 12:13 PM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> 
> > Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a
> chance to be a star...not because of inherent talent, but
> because of inherent clutchness.  He rises to the big
> occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three
> point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber
> offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if wants to
> be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has
> been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really
> score...
> 
> Actually add another, although I agree big time about his
> not wilting under the spotlight. But I didn't think he
> was capable of the discipline to actually work on improving
> his game as much as he has vs relying on the size and
> athleticism that has always been enough for him before.
> I'm very glad to be wrong about that. He's not just
> improving through playing time / experience, he's
> actually looked at where his flaws are and tried to do
> something about them specifically. I don't think
> he'll ever be a certifiable star (although we may just
> define that differently) but that willingness to work and
> apply self-discipline will take him to a lot better career
> than I thought he was headed for.
> 
> Kim 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 21:14:47 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
Message-ID: <970040.21517.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I guess we'll see, Steve.  

The defensive rebounding numbers aren't THAT good, but I think he's a good team rebounder in the sense that he boxes out well and puts his body into people--he boxes people out and then Rondo or Perk get the rebound.  So, it's not like he's Mikki Moore out there.  And his offensive rebounding is actually pretty good.  Usually when he has a double-digit rebounding game, more than half of those are offensive.

Baby's never going to be a shot-blocker, but I've seen a real improvement in that area, especially when he's playing with high energy (see my other post).  He's rejected Noah at the rim in Game 3, remember?

Antoine and Baby were similarly sized, but I don't think Baby's as bad a shooter at all.  Antoine never even sighted the basket down low, he just flipped it up.  Baby has showed a nice ability to find the blue sky, using up fakes, spin moves, or, as shown recently, the fall away jumper.  Antoine didn't have the spin moves to bucket nor the fall-away that Baby has shown.  Baby's entire inside game is now predicated on his ability to hit the 15 footer.  Now, after he's hit a few, he can give the upfake and get into the lane with one of his spin left-handed up-and-under moves.  Antoine never showed that much discipline in his game.  He just chucked from everywhere.  And wait until Baby develops the 3 point shot...the dude will be an unstoppable offensive force.

P.S.  As for Pruitt, I still think he has more TALENT than D. West...it's just that he doesn't have the same drive to apply that talent.  

Ryan

--- On Sun, 5/3/09, bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

> From: bosox18 at charter.net <bosox18 at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: for want of a KG . . .
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 3:59 PM
> I think you're seeing Big Baby through the same
> green-colored glasses that showed Gabe Pruitt as the vastly
> superior version of Delonte West.
> 
> He's working hard and doing more than could be expected
> given the Garnett and Powe injuries, but he's a
> seriously restricted player and always will be. He's not
> a particularly good rebounder, he can't block shots and
> he has Antoine-like problems finishing on the inside -- all
> of which are important qualities for a power forward. 
> 
> Yes, he's got quick feet for his size, he works hard,
> throws a mean pick, doesn't have a big ego. It's
> great that he's improved his perimeter shot so much, but
> it's not like he's Dirk Nowitzki from the outside. 
> 
> Big Baby is a handy backup player, but I don't think
> he's a starter for a good team, and not a star for
> anybody. The C's would still be better off right now if
> they had Leon's rebounding and high percentage scoring.
> 
> Steve O
> 
> 
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a
> chance to be a star...not because of inherent talent, but
> because of inherent clutchness.  He rises to the big
> occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three
> point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber
> offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if wants to
> be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has
> been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really
> score...
> > 
> > You're right, Posey would have held back
> Baby's development; not personally, but because Doc
> would have relied on Posey too much.
> > 
> > The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby
> and Perk will be needed to battle Howard...Baby against
> Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will definitely be needed, but
> I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to
> starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting
> lineup at the 3, just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA
> had a altercation with Marc Spears prior to game 7, so he
> might be in the dog house permanently so starting him might
> be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup with
> be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup
> in Game 1 and adjust as needed down the line.  
> > 
> > I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think
> the Bulls would have beaten them in the first round had they
> been the 6th seed.  We'll need more production off the
> bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've
> advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy
> at the point has been good though) and I also expect House
> to play better (Chicago was a bad matchup...Orlando should
> be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the only
> player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with
> Lewis...  Even Mikki Moore might be needed in this series,
> especially if Perk and Baby get in foul trouble trying to
> guard Howard.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick
> <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> > > To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> > > Well, one observation is that KG's injury
> opened the
> > > door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to
> persevere
> > > without the great one.? That he was ready to
> give us about
> > > 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with
> Powe going
> > > down.? At the same time, it means he will be
> more costly to
> > > re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have
> a PF for
> > > the future.
> > > 
> > > I wonder if having Posey would have limited
> Baby's
> > > playing time with the KG injury, slowing his
> development
> > > & costing us in the first round.? Posey
> can't do
> > > the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is
> pulling
> > > off.? And, wadr, he can't do what House can
> do on the
> > > perimeter.? (wadr--if that's not a common
> one, it's
> > > "with all due respect.")
> > > 
> > > The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard
> Lewis.? His
> > > quick release and deadly three are a problem.?
> Otherwise,
> > > they're slower than the Bulls, don't have
> a great
> > > point penetrator (I don't think), and
> are--for some
> > > reason--favored.? That's good.? Losing to
> the Bulls
> > > would be haunting; the further we go, the easier
> our exit
> > > becomes.? I think we're better than everyone
> else, of
> > > course.? Only the Lakers have the talent to
> oppose us.?
> > > (Except that talent on paper is not what
> Cleveland has; they
> > > have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).? 
> > > 
> > > Well, I don't think the Magic can run us
> silly, or
> > > shoot us crazy like the Bulls.? They can just
> play, inside
> > > and out, very consistently.? Perk and Baby can
> frustrate
> > > Howard, we hope.? And Pierce and Allen can slow
> down Lewis
> > > and Turgolu.? Our defensive system is the key to
> staying
> > > close and winning on experience & talent.?
> Then
> > > there's the foul problem.
> > > 
> > > Finally, it's good that our surge came in the
> second
> > > quarter; we didn't have enough left to do
> that late.?
> > > Cheers, Gene
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun May  3 21:22:00 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:22:00 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <473874.57613.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <0KJ200EXYX8TRULX@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
	<473874.57613.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJ3005HW7DNZZKA@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:05 PM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:

>Well, the dude is already a star if you watch him being 
>interviewed...he has a star's personality.

Don't even have to wait for an interview. Oh yeah, he's got enough 
personality for three stars, maybe four : )
Kim 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 21:25:01 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: But, but, but
In-Reply-To: <0KJ200DLPWS9RT6K@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <640454.95479.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: But, but, but
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 12:33 PM
> At 10:48 AM 5/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> > Props to Doc for sticking with Eddie and even bigger
> props to Eddie for playing the best defense of his life.  If
> he plays defense like he did last night, TA will never get
> off the bench.  Just a phenomenal defensive effort for
> Eddie.  I was watching him and it was all EFFORT.  He was
> just moving faster than he had all series.  And that effort
> spilled over the offensive end.  He hadn't been getting
> open all series, but with just a little more EFFORT, he
> found the seams and drained his jumper.  Great to see.
> 
> No question. Even Doc made a point of mentioning it. And
> it's what's been keeping him off the floor up until
> now because his defense was weak enough that given how key
> the Bulls guards were to their game, if he wasn't
> scoring we couldn't afford to have them out there. And
> maybe not even if he was. Of course you point to key thing
> that is the essence of defense - effort.  Good point about
> it carrying over to his offense. Eddie is SUCH a rhythm
> player that it makes sense that would happen even if the
> opposite hasn't usually (see that effort thing <wry
> grin>)

Yeah, and I'd hope Eddie would take this to heart.  The same thing happened last season.  He got benched for Cassell and then, when he finally got his chance to play again, he made plays because he was playing with supreme effort on the defensive end (the diving save of a ball going out of bounds in game 7 against Cleveland comes to mind).  He needs to do that all the time.  He's a great offensive player as far as hitting open shots is concerned, but he should be able to at least show great EFFORT on the defensive end all the time.  I get on him alot even when he's hitting his shots because usually he's letting the other team score as well, which to me is supremely counterproductive.  This team is built on defense and House's defense usually undermines that effort, even when he's scoring more that he's letting in.  And, as Doc and I hypothesized, it was the effort on the defensive end which in turn led to the effort on the offensive end and allowed him
 to get open and hit shots.  He needs to remember that against Orlando.

> Always makes me twitchy when we agree this much Ryan : )
> Kim 

Oh, come on :)  

Ryan



      


From troynsusiehash at alltel.net  Mon May  4 00:42:05 2009
From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:42:05 -0400
Subject: Clarify Baby's Status For Next Year!
In-Reply-To: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <733506.55405.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003301c9cc51$25bb29d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Does anyone know for sure Baby's contract status?  Will he be restricted or
straight free agent next year?    He is our #1 priority for signing since he
can play the 4 & 5 and is getting better all the time.  Rondo is priority 1B
too!   Any info. would be great!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:13 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: for want of a KG . . .


Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be a
star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent clutchness.
He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three
point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll
need to lose 20 more if wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot
from the post has been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really
score...

You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not personally,
but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.

The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will be
needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will
definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to
starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting lineup at the 3,
just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc
Spears prior to game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so
starting him might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup
with be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1 and
adjust as needed down the line.

I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would have
beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.  We'll need more
production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've
advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy at the point has
been good though) and I also expect House to play better (Chicago was a bad
matchup...Orlando should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the
only player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even
Mikki Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby get
in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.

Ryan
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the door for Glen
> Davis, and that allowed us to persevere without the great one.? That
> he was ready to give us about
> 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going down.? At the
> same time, it means he will be more costly to re-sign, but settles the
> issue of whether we have a PF for the future.
>
> I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's playing time with
> the KG injury, slowing his development & costing us in the first
> round.? Posey can't do the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
> off.? And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the perimeter.?
> (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's "with all due respect.")
>
> The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.? His quick
> release and deadly three are a problem.? Otherwise, they're slower
> than the Bulls, don't have a great point penetrator (I don't think),
> and are--for some reason--favored.? That's good.? Losing to the Bulls
> would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit becomes.? I
> think we're better than everyone else, of course.? Only the Lakers
> have the talent to oppose us.
> (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they have
> talent of the mindset, of the teamset).
>
> Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or shoot us crazy like
> the Bulls.? They can just play, inside and out, very consistently.?
> Perk and Baby can frustrate Howard, we hope.? And Pierce and Allen can
> slow down Lewis and Turgolu.? Our defensive system is the key to
> staying close and winning on experience & talent.? Then there's the
> foul problem.
>
> Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second quarter; we
> didn't have enough left to do that late.
> Cheers, Gene
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
14:23:00



From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon May  4 01:21:15 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:21:15 -0700
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
References: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
Message-ID: <6C1FB89A-60F5-42D6-A3A5-03F2A8600882@verizon.net>

I don't see pruitt being as good as delonte , D West has some  
intangibles.

Not saying he ever will be, but baby has the barkleyesque type body  
and skills

Can't block shots? Did you see the two best blocks of the season?

Leon shoots from 5 feet in, his % should be higher

John

On May 3, 2009, at 1:59 PM, <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

> I think you're seeing Big Baby through the same green-colored  
> glasses that showed Gabe Pruitt as the vastly superior version of  
> Delonte West.
>
> He's working hard and doing more than could be expected given the  
> Garnett and Powe injuries, but he's a seriously restricted player  
> and always will be. He's not a particularly good rebounder, he can't  
> block shots and he has Antoine-like problems finishing on the inside  
> -- all of which are important qualities for a power forward.
>
> Yes, he's got quick feet for his size, he works hard, throws a mean  
> pick, doesn't have a big ego. It's great that he's improved his  
> perimeter shot so much, but it's not like he's Dirk Nowitzki from  
> the outside.
>
> Big Baby is a handy backup player, but I don't think he's a starter  
> for a good team, and not a star for anybody. The C's would still be  
> better off right now if they had Leon's rebounding and high  
> percentage scoring.
>
> Steve O
>
>
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be  
>> a star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent  
>> clutchness.  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to  
>> fail.  If he adds a three point shot, I think he could be an All- 
>> Star caliber offensive player (he'll need to lose 20 more if wants  
>> to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot from the post has been  
>> a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really score...
>>
>> You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not  
>> personally, but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.
>>
>> The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will  
>> be needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD  
>> matchup...Scal will definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start  
>> him.  I'd give some thought to starting Paul at the 4 and maybe  
>> putting TA in the starting lineup at the 3, just to keep the bench  
>> rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc Spears prior to  
>> game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so starting him  
>> might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup with be  
>> huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1 and  
>> adjust as needed down the line.
>>
>> I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would  
>> have beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.   
>> We'll need more production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow  
>> a pair now that we've advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his  
>> defense and savvy at the point has been good though) and I also  
>> expect House to play better (Chicago was a bad matchup...Orlando  
>> should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the only player  
>> (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even Mikki  
>> Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby  
>> get in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.
>>
>> Ryan
>> --- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: for want of a KG . . .
>>> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
>>> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
>>> Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the
>>> door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere
>>> without the great one.  That he was ready to give us about
>>> 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going
>>> down.  At the same time, it means he will be more costly to
>>> re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for
>>> the future.
>>>
>>> I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's
>>> playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development
>>> & costing us in the first round.  Posey can't do
>>> the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
>>> off.  And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the
>>> perimeter.  (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's
>>> "with all due respect.")
>>>
>>> The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.  His
>>> quick release and deadly three are a problem.  Otherwise,
>>> they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great
>>> point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some
>>> reason--favored.  That's good.  Losing to the Bulls
>>> would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit
>>> becomes.  I think we're better than everyone else, of
>>> course.  Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.
>>> (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they
>>> have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).
>>>
>>> Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or
>>> shoot us crazy like the Bulls.  They can just play, inside
>>> and out, very consistently.  Perk and Baby can frustrate
>>> Howard, we hope.  And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis
>>> and Turgolu.  Our defensive system is the key to staying
>>> close and winning on experience & talent.  Then
>>> there's the foul problem.
>>>
>>> Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second
>>> quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon May  4 01:59:01 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:59:01 -0400
Subject: Clarify Baby's Status For Next Year!
In-Reply-To: <003301c9cc51$25bb29d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
References: <733506.55405.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<003301c9cc51$25bb29d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <0KJ3008KKK7OM7TH@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

He's not necessarily our #1 priority but if we submit a qualifying 
offer then he is a restricted FA.  If we don't he isn't.
There's no option for next year but he will be a veteran FA with less 
than 3 years in the league.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q36
"Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed 
following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round 
draft picks (see question number 41). It is also allowed for all 
veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. "

At 08:42 PM 5/3/2009, Troy Hash wrote:
>Does anyone know for sure Baby's contract status?  Will he be restricted or
>straight free agent next year?    He is our #1 priority for signing since he
>can play the 4 & 5 and is getting better all the time.  Rondo is priority 1B
>too!   Any info. would be great!  Troy


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon May  4 02:08:04 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:08:04 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <6C1FB89A-60F5-42D6-A3A5-03F2A8600882@verizon.net>
References: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
	<6C1FB89A-60F5-42D6-A3A5-03F2A8600882@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0KJ3001SEKMSKN2D@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

At 09:21 PM 5/3/2009, John Lyell wrote:
>I don't see pruitt being as good as delonte , D West has some
>intangibles.
>
>Not saying he ever will be, but baby has the barkleyesque type body
>and skills

Body type, maybe. Skills, absolutely not. Barkley had serious hops. 
Davis has almost no lift,which has been a major factor in how he 
plays. Of course it's also likely why he worked to develop that 
outside shot because he got stuffed all the time inside, so it's not 
wholly bad, but that's just a huge difference between them and the 
reason for a lot of differences in their game.

Kim 


From renrile at qualcomm.com  Mon May  4 03:24:41 2009
From: renrile at qualcomm.com (Enrile, Roy)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:24:41 -0700
Subject: Clarify Baby's Status For Next Year!
In-Reply-To: <0KJ3001SEKMSKN2D@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
	<6C1FB89A-60F5-42D6-A3A5-03F2A8600882@verizon.net>
	<0KJ3001SEKMSKN2D@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF161814EB6C2E79@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>

Baby has better hops than our former heavyweights Fortson/BrandonHunter.  I think he's more explosive than our former lightweight PF's Toine/Gomes .  
On plays like Perks touchpass to Davis cutting down the lane, Baby two hand dunks it without thinking.  One of his favorite plays is catching a driveNdish, then throwing his 300lbs from 1 side of the basket to the other for a graceful layup, using the rim as protection against shot blockers.

On Glen's contract, I think the C's might use a team option, keeping him at a second round picks tiny salary for the 2009/2010 season.   So he'll be one of the best values in the league again (in the playoffs he's at 42mpg, 18ppg, 6.7boards, 46%Fg) .  If his contract was up right now like Leon's , his agent has leverage to make him a  very expensive to signing.  Lucky for Danny, his #'s will probably come back down to earth a little next regular season.

Speaking of contracts for 2nd rounder PF's, I'm a Leon fan (the kid is so dignified off the court & the most freakish overachiever/intimidator on the court).  So I vote for the team to sign him to another 2yr min deal, even if he'll be useless, taking up a roster spot, for most of next season .


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Troy Hash
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 5:42 PM

Does anyone know for sure Baby's contract status?  Will he be restricted or
straight free agent next year?    


From renrile at qualcomm.com  Mon May  4 03:36:31 2009
From: renrile at qualcomm.com (Enrile, Roy)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:36:31 -0700
Subject: The problem w/ the C's this postseason 
Message-ID: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF161814EB6C2E7C@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>

I think the problem with the C's this post season is they aren't playing all-out effort defense like they did last year.  In several games they let the the Bulls, shoot ridiculously high FG%.     I'm not talking about the Celts missing  KG's help D & rebounding, I mean the guys are picking their spots when to have heart  & play Thibodeau level effort,  when challenging shots.

Salmons/Gordon/Rose got past Paul/Ray/Rajon & all the way to the hole so easily.  Then they  finished layups many times against Baby who rotated slow & tried to play position D at the basket .    It wouldn't have been this easy for dribble penetrators last year(with mentally tough PJ, Powe, Posey defending  the paint).   LAST year guys even in the 4th quarter of blowout games  would be hustling to fight through picks.  The bigs would sprint to show against on the pick N rolls.  They'd give extra shoves &  to penetrators & opposing rebounders.    When someone made a big stop, or dove for the ball, the C's on the court & bench would be looking intense & celebrating, even if the C's were already up 20.

But in THIS years playoffs:  In the double overtime loss the Bulls shot 48.4% , in the triple overtime loss they shot 49.5% .     If the C's would've played their  usual Thibodeau  D against an inexperienced team  for just a couple lategame possessions, the series would've been over quickly.
Fyi, in the regular season C's tied for the best defensive fg%  in the league (43.1%),   even with KG out so many games!

Everyone says this was the best 1st round series ever with both teams playing at a super HIGH level.   I disagree & think this should've been an easy series.  The Bulls have average level talent as a playoff team with untested Kids & a couple of Vets who are new to the system & the other players.   The C's vets have been together & underachieved in the games they lost.

Hope they get their sense of urgency & super quick rotations back , to stop  bombers like Rashard, Hedo, Reddick.




From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon May  4 10:56:35 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 03:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The problem w/ the C's this postseason
Message-ID: <447699.92769.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Agree on your comments about defense; no question we were not 48 minutes dedicated.? On Baby's contract:? it was a 2 year deal.? I don't think there's any automatic team option; we have to negotiate.? Kim's the expert, tho.? Good luck to us tonight.? Gene

--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Enrile, Roy <renrile at qualcomm.com> wrote:

From: Enrile, Roy <renrile at qualcomm.com>
Subject: The problem w/ the C's this postseason
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:36 PM

I think the problem with the C's this post season is they aren't playing all-out effort defense like they did last year.? In several games they let the the Bulls, shoot ridiculously high FG%.? ???I'm not talking about the Celts missing? KG's help D & rebounding, I mean the guys are picking their spots when to have heart? & play Thibodeau level effort,? when challenging shots.





      

From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Mon May  4 11:44:42 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 04:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: baby
In-Reply-To: <mailman.179.1241434606.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.179.1241434606.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <49130.64641.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i don't see how anyone can complain about baby's game. he's a second year, second round pick, folks. playing very, very solid on both ends of the court for a championship contending team. 

what's not to love? sure, you can pick around the edges (yes, he's no garnett, but who  is?), but if you told anyone at the start of the year that he'd be playing 40+ minutes in the playoffs and we'd be winning, i think most would have tried to help you check into a clinic. but that's exactly what's happening. he's playing smart, playing well and playing within his talents. 

will he get even better? damn right he will. i think he's just scratching the surface. one of the best pickers in the league, and now that leon's down, one of the best at drawing offensive fouls, too. 

go celts.  


      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon May  4 11:46:53 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 07:46:53 -0400
Subject: baby
In-Reply-To: <49130.64641.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.179.1241434606.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
	<49130.64641.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905041147.n44Bl10U010018@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

LMAO.  I dunno if I'd personally ever place "Best Picker" on my resume.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of steve knight
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:45 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: baby

i don't see how anyone can complain about baby's game. he's a second year, second round pick, folks. playing very, very solid on both ends of the court for a championship contending team. 

what's not to love? sure, you can pick around the edges (yes, he's no garnett, but who  is?), but if you told anyone at the start of the year that he'd be playing 40+ minutes in the playoffs and we'd be winning, i think most would have tried to help you check into a clinic. but that's exactly what's happening. he's playing smart, playing well and playing within his talents. 

will he get even better? damn right he will. i think he's just scratching the surface. one of the best pickers in the league, and now that leon's down, one of the best at drawing offensive fouls, too. 

go celts.  


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Mon May  4 12:49:44 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 08:49:44 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
References: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180905040549k1a3c1f33j787340e2d4ac24c0@mail.gmail.com>

Agree with the assessment: 10mins 3rd stringer...

My biggest concern at this point is his rebounding: lousy D board numbers in
every game, even though we playing without KG. (2 boards game 5, 1 board
games 6,7, etc.). So far he has shown total inability to block out anyone, O
board stats for Noah were plain out ridiculous and consistently kept Chi in
the game.

I see a lot in common between him and Blount concentrating on the O side of
the game instead of D. He's not all that quick, cannot get his feet moving
on the switch and simply plays out of position on the block.

Unfortunately we were not able to get Smith: would've been an easy solution
for all our problems.... Hope Moore will not be back next year..

AG

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM, <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

> I think you're seeing Big Baby through the same green-colored glasses that
> showed Gabe Pruitt as the vastly superior version of Delonte West.
>
> He's working hard and doing more than could be expected given the Garnett
> and Powe injuries, but he's a seriously restricted player and always will
> be. He's not a particularly good rebounder, he can't block shots and he has
> Antoine-like problems finishing on the inside -- all of which are important
> qualities for a power forward.
>
> Yes, he's got quick feet for his size, he works hard, throws a mean pick,
> doesn't have a big ego. It's great that he's improved his perimeter shot so
> much, but it's not like he's Dirk Nowitzki from the outside.
>
> Big Baby is a handy backup player, but I don't think he's a starter for a
> good team, and not a star for anybody. The C's would still be better off
> right now if they had Leon's rebounding and high percentage scoring.
>
> Steve O
>
>
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be a
> star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent clutchness.
>  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a three
> point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber offensive player (he'll
> need to lose 20 more if wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot
> from the post has been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can really
> score...
> >
> > You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not
> personally, but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.
> >
> > The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will be
> needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will
> definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to
> starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting lineup at the 3,
> just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc
> Spears prior to game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so
> starting him might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup
> with be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1 and
> adjust as needed down the line.
> >
> > I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would have
> beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.  We'll need more
> production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've
> advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy at the point has
> been good though) and I also expect House to play better (Chicago was a bad
> matchup...Orlando should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the
> only player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even
> Mikki Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby get
> in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.
> >
> > Ryan
> > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> > > To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> > > Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the
> > > door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere
> > > without the great one.  That he was ready to give us about
> > > 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going
> > > down.  At the same time, it means he will be more costly to
> > > re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for
> > > the future.
> > >
> > > I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's
> > > playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development
> > > & costing us in the first round.  Posey can't do
> > > the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
> > > off.  And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the
> > > perimeter.  (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's
> > > "with all due respect.")
> > >
> > > The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.  His
> > > quick release and deadly three are a problem.  Otherwise,
> > > they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great
> > > point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some
> > > reason--favored.  That's good.  Losing to the Bulls
> > > would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit
> > > becomes.  I think we're better than everyone else, of
> > > course.  Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.
> > > (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they
> > > have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).
> > >
> > > Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or
> > > shoot us crazy like the Bulls.  They can just play, inside
> > > and out, very consistently.  Perk and Baby can frustrate
> > > Howard, we hope.  And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis
> > > and Turgolu.  Our defensive system is the key to staying
> > > close and winning on experience & talent.  Then
> > > there's the foul problem.
> > >
> > > Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second
> > > quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.
> > > Cheers, Gene
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From bosox18 at charter.net  Mon May  4 13:01:02 2009
From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 09:01:02 -0400
Subject: for want of a KG . . .
In-Reply-To: <3f0c87180905040549k1a3c1f33j787340e2d4ac24c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <474236.96666.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
	<3f0c87180905040549k1a3c1f33j787340e2d4ac24c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0631544100D542E0AA4FF9C30C6AF06E@StevePC>

I would never invoke Blount's name to describe Big Baby. Blount's problem
was effort and motivation; Big Baby's problem is that he's short and he
can't jump. Still, with that bulk and all those minutes, he should be
getting more rebounds.

I'm not disappointed with him; I'm enormously pleased with what he's
contributed. Just don't see how he can be a star with that skill set.

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Alex Goldblatt
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:50 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: for want of a KG . . .

Agree with the assessment: 10mins 3rd stringer...

My biggest concern at this point is his rebounding: lousy D board numbers in
every game, even though we playing without KG. (2 boards game 5, 1 board
games 6,7, etc.). So far he has shown total inability to block out anyone, O
board stats for Noah were plain out ridiculous and consistently kept Chi in
the game.

I see a lot in common between him and Blount concentrating on the O side of
the game instead of D. He's not all that quick, cannot get his feet moving
on the switch and simply plays out of position on the block.

Unfortunately we were not able to get Smith: would've been an easy solution
for all our problems.... Hope Moore will not be back next year..

AG

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM, <bosox18 at charter.net> wrote:

> I think you're seeing Big Baby through the same green-colored glasses that
> showed Gabe Pruitt as the vastly superior version of Delonte West.
>
> He's working hard and doing more than could be expected given the Garnett
> and Powe injuries, but he's a seriously restricted player and always will
> be. He's not a particularly good rebounder, he can't block shots and he
has
> Antoine-like problems finishing on the inside -- all of which are
important
> qualities for a power forward.
>
> Yes, he's got quick feet for his size, he works hard, throws a mean pick,
> doesn't have a big ego. It's great that he's improved his perimeter shot
so
> much, but it's not like he's Dirk Nowitzki from the outside.
>
> Big Baby is a handy backup player, but I don't think he's a starter for a
> good team, and not a star for anybody. The C's would still be better off
> right now if they had Leon's rebounding and high percentage scoring.
>
> Steve O
>
>
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Baby has come alive this year.  I think the dude has a chance to be a
> star...not because of inherent talent, but because of inherent clutchness.
>  He rises to the big occasion and is not afraid to fail.  If he adds a
three
> point shot, I think he could be an All-Star caliber offensive player
(he'll
> need to lose 20 more if wants to be a real All-Star).  His fall-away shot
> from the post has been a nice surprise this post-season.  The guy can
really
> score...
> >
> > You're right, Posey would have held back Baby's development; not
> personally, but because Doc would have relied on Posey too much.
> >
> > The Orlando series will be interesting.  I think Baby and Perk will be
> needed to battle Howard...Baby against Lewis is a BAD matchup...Scal will
> definitely be needed, but I wouldn't start him.  I'd give some thought to
> starting Paul at the 4 and maybe putting TA in the starting lineup at the
3,
> just to keep the bench rotation intact.  TA had a altercation with Marc
> Spears prior to game 7, so he might be in the dog house permanently so
> starting him might be a pipe dream at this point.  But the Lewis matchup
> with be huge...I assume we'll use our regular starting lineup in Game 1
and
> adjust as needed down the line.
> >
> > I expect us to beat the Magic in 6--frankly I think the Bulls would have
> beaten them in the first round had they been the 6th seed.  We'll need
more
> production off the bench.  I expect Marbury to grow a pair now that we've
> advanced (he needs to penetrate more--his defense and savvy at the point
has
> been good though) and I also expect House to play better (Chicago was a
bad
> matchup...Orlando should be better).  Scal will be huge because he's the
> only player (besides Pierce) who can really match up with Lewis...  Even
> Mikki Moore might be needed in this series, especially if Perk and Baby
get
> in foul trouble trying to guard Howard.
> >
> > Ryan
> > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: for want of a KG . . .
> > > To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
> > > Well, one observation is that KG's injury opened the
> > > door for Glen Davis, and that allowed us to persevere
> > > without the great one.  That he was ready to give us about
> > > 15 and 8 throughout saved us, especially with Powe going
> > > down.  At the same time, it means he will be more costly to
> > > re-sign, but settles the issue of whether we have a PF for
> > > the future.
> > >
> > > I wonder if having Posey would have limited Baby's
> > > playing time with the KG injury, slowing his development
> > > & costing us in the first round.  Posey can't do
> > > the "in the paint" stuff that Baby is pulling
> > > off.  And, wadr, he can't do what House can do on the
> > > perimeter.  (wadr--if that's not a common one, it's
> > > "with all due respect.")
> > >
> > > The wild card in round two, to me, is Rashard Lewis.  His
> > > quick release and deadly three are a problem.  Otherwise,
> > > they're slower than the Bulls, don't have a great
> > > point penetrator (I don't think), and are--for some
> > > reason--favored.  That's good.  Losing to the Bulls
> > > would be haunting; the further we go, the easier our exit
> > > becomes.  I think we're better than everyone else, of
> > > course.  Only the Lakers have the talent to oppose us.
> > > (Except that talent on paper is not what Cleveland has; they
> > > have talent of the mindset, of the teamset).
> > >
> > > Well, I don't think the Magic can run us silly, or
> > > shoot us crazy like the Bulls.  They can just play, inside
> > > and out, very consistently.  Perk and Baby can frustrate
> > > Howard, we hope.  And Pierce and Allen can slow down Lewis
> > > and Turgolu.  Our defensive system is the key to staying
> > > close and winning on experience & talent.  Then
> > > there's the foul problem.
> > >
> > > Finally, it's good that our surge came in the second
> > > quarter; we didn't have enough left to do that late.
> > > Cheers, Gene
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon May  4 13:17:04 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 06:17:04 -0700
Subject: Clarify Baby's Status For Next Year!
In-Reply-To: <0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF161814EB6C2E79@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>
References: <20090503165943.LN087.2016765.root@mp06>
	<6C1FB89A-60F5-42D6-A3A5-03F2A8600882@verizon.net>
	<0KJ3001SEKMSKN2D@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
	<0938E4C6C3C7CF48BB2F343EC9CF161814EB6C2E79@NASANEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <96808C1B-A526-47C2-A88F-BFCBA3C45FC7@verizon.net>

Agreed, for his size, he has as good of hops & body control as you  
will see. Kind of rodney rogers like

  He has made some blocks we never saw from antoine, may not from  
leon. Leon is a better inside rebounder now, but wait and see if he  
learns to use his body to block out.



On May 3, 2009, at 8:24 PM, "Enrile, Roy" <renrile at qualcomm.com> wrote:

> Baby has better hops than our former heavyweights Fortson/ 
> BrandonHunter.  I think he's more explosive than our former  
> lightweight PF's Toine/Gomes .
> On plays like Perks touchpass to Davis cutting down the lane, Baby  
> two hand dunks it without thinking.  One of his favorite plays is  
> catching a driveNdish, then throwing his 300lbs from 1 side of the  
> basket to the other for a graceful layup, using the rim as  
> protection against shot blockers.
>
> On Glen's contract, I think the C's might use a team option, keeping  
> him at a second round picks tiny salary for the 2009/2010 season.    
> So he'll be one of the best values in the league again (in the  
> playoffs he's at 42mpg, 18ppg, 6.7boards, 46%Fg) .  If his contract  
> was up right now like Leon's , his agent has leverage to make him a   
> very expensive to signing.  Lucky for Danny, his #'s will probably  
> come back down to earth a little next regular season.
>
> Speaking of contracts for 2nd rounder PF's, I'm a Leon fan (the kid  
> is so dignified off the court & the most freakish overachiever/ 
> intimidator on the court).  So I vote for the team to sign him to  
> another 2yr min deal, even if he'll be useless, taking up a roster  
> spot, for most of next season .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On  
> Behalf Of Troy Hash
> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 5:42 PM
>
> Does anyone know for sure Baby's contract status?  Will he be  
> restricted or
> straight free agent next year?
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Mon May  4 16:35:33 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:35:33 EDT
Subject: Scott Howard-Cooper:  INSIDE THE NBA   
Message-ID: <cb9.4a0dbfce.37307355@aol.com>

    Scott Howard-Cooper >  
INSIDE THE NBA
 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/scott_howard-cooper/archive/) 

     
Celtics-Magic series breakdown
 
Story Highlights 
Defending champ and No. 2 seed Boston is an underdog to  the Magic
Four Celtics averaged over 40 minutes a game in ousting  the Bulls
Orlando's foul shooting may keep Boston in the series,  but Magic win


 
No. 2 Celtics (62-20) vs. No. 3 Magic (59-23)
OVERVIEW: With no real chance to top the historic  first-round victory over 
the Bulls for late-game thrills, because it's  reasonable to think we may 
never see another series like that again,  Boston goes for a new kind of 
encore: Survival. 
Rare is the time that a defending champion with home-court  advantage and a 
better record is the underdog in the second round, but  welcome to it. The 
absence of _Kevin  Garnett_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3007)  may have locked that in anyway, except then the Celtics  
needed seven exhausting games to escape the Bulls. And since Orlando is  better 
than Chicago . . .  
The Celtics and Magic split their four games during the  regular season, 
with an asterisk: Boston was 2-0 with Garnett and pretty  much 0-2 without, KG 
logging all of 17 minutes in one of the Orlando  victories in the attempt 
to bring him back from a knee injury. 
THREE THINGS TO WATCH 
1. Whether the Celtics can make it up Heartbreak  Hill. Long first round. 
Loooonnnnngggg first round. _Rajon  Rondo_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4149)  averaged 45.3 minutes over the seven games, 
_Paul  Pierce_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3253)  
44.4, _Glen  Davis_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4313)  41.6, _Ray  Allen_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3080)  40 and _Kendrick  Perkins_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3730)  37.9. And now the games come nearly non-stop, 
every other  day until a two-day break between 6 and 7, if necessary. 
2. The availability _Courtney Lee_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4484) . The  Magic's starting shooting guard underwent 
surgery Thursday to repair  fractures in a nasal cavity and is expected to miss 
at least Monday's  opener and probably longer. When he does return, Lee will 
wear a  protective mask. So even a return to the lineup may be different 
than a  return to the form of a reliable perimeter scorer who can help keep  
defenses honest from sagging on _Dwight  Howard_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3818) . 
3. Boston's interior defense. Howard is the last  person the Celtics wanted 
to see when down Garnett and _Leon  Powe_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4177) . That leaves center Perkins and power forward 
Davis, except  that Davis will be chasing _Rashard  Lewis_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3275)  around screens on the 
perimeter. Boston was able to survive  Chicago because the Bulls hurt people with 
guards and wings, but Howard is  the best in the game at his position. He 
doesn't have a commanding  offensive arsenal, but he didn't in the regular 
season either and averaged  20.6 points while shooting 57.2 percent and didn't 
pick one up in the  first round and went for 24 and 68.3 percent. 
X FACTORS: The Magic were last in the league in  free-throw percentage 
during the regular season, with Howard at 59.4  percent. If there's a team the 
Celtics, or anyone, would want in a close  game in the pressurized playoffs, 
it's Orlando. The problem, of course, is  that Boston can't play 
Hack-a-Dwight because the Celtics can't afford the  foul trouble. Not enough bodies. 
The great Boston intangible, of course, is the competitive  spirit that is 
still very much alive. Orlando can't come close to matching  that attitude 
and that experience that can pay off in moments like this,  legs dragging or 
not. If the Celtics go out, it won't be while wilting.  The same can't be 
said with certainty about the Magic. 
UNDER THE RADAR: The Magic had four different  starters at shooting guard 
this season -- Lee, _Mickael  Pietrus_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3714) , _Keith  Bogans_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3746)  and J.J. Redick -- so replacing Lee isn't 
exactly  impossible. Redick moved into the opening lineup for Game 6 against 
the  76ers and hit five three-pointers and finished with 15 points in his 
first  career playoff start. 
PREDICTION: Magic in 6. You'd have loved this  series with both teams at 
full strength, including the Magic with _Jameer  Nelson_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3837) , out so long by now that he 
unfortunately and undeservedly  has faded from a lot of memories. Back in 
reality, though, the Celtics  minus Garnett and Powe don't have the bodies to throw 
at  Howard.
**************2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All 
3 Bureaus FREE! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221797372x1201397989/aol?redir=https:%2F%2Fwww.freescore.com%2FOffers%2FStart%2FFreeCreditRepor
tAndScore.aspx%3FID%3D91831F371F138345B53A153F49D4D872%26siteid%3De927580bf7
)

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon May  4 18:16:25 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 14:16:25 -0400
Subject: baby
In-Reply-To: <200905041147.n44Bl10U010018@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
References: <mailman.179.1241434606.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
	<49130.64641.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200905041147.n44Bl10U010018@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <0KJ4009D3TH4WWPY@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

*>GUFFAW<*

At 07:46 AM 5/4/2009, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
>LMAO.  I dunno if I'd personally ever place "Best Picker" on my resume.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
>Behalf Of steve knight
>Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:45 AM
>To: celtics at igtc.com
>Subject: Re: baby
>
>i don't see how anyone can complain about baby's game. he's a second 
>year, second round pick, folks. playing very, very solid on both 
>ends of the court for a championship contending team.
>
>what's not to love? sure, you can pick around the edges (yes, he's 
>no garnett, but who  is?), but if you told anyone at the start of 
>the year that he'd be playing 40+ minutes in the playoffs and we'd 
>be winning, i think most would have tried to help you check into a 
>clinic. but that's exactly what's happening. he's playing smart, 
>playing well and playing within his talents.
>
>will he get even better? damn right he will. i think he's just 
>scratching the surface. one of the best pickers in the league, and 
>now that leon's down, one of the best at drawing offensive fouls, too.





From gh18 at juno.com  Tue May  5 11:56:26 2009
From: gh18 at juno.com (gh18 at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:56:26 GMT
Subject: Is Rondo on Drugs?
Message-ID: <20090505.065626.5840.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

In my  line of work.....If the employee can not get to work on time, constantly sick and arguing with the boss, he or she is on drugs.  Something is wrong with Rondo!









---------- Original Message ----------
From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: boil it down
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT)

OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into one word or one player, but still it's Rondo.  I'm glad his difficult game was #6, with the hangover of "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.  If he is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I think we're in it.

Other things we need:  continued board dominance by Perk and his helpers, reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen, great spot playing by the next three guys, whoever they are, and the fierce desire that will keep the opponents down once we establish ourselves.

It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the way, we have to use a synthetic glue down South that's flexible in the heat).  Thirteen hours before I tune in.  There's not enough yard work, or shopping, or movies in sight.  Guess I can catch up on last week's Daily Show.  
PS:  I think the team that survives beats the Magic.  We can talk about that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene



     
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
____________________________________________________________
Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6JM8cHyhJD2H8JyX6AknID6WcnZMYEHusqJPW7JdfEyADNXGRS/

From jlyell at verizon.net  Tue May  5 13:04:16 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 06:04:16 -0700
Subject: Is Rondo on Drugs?
In-Reply-To: <20090505.065626.5840.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090505.065626.5840.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <A121981D-8C46-4526-8E32-A9453A09CC05@verizon.net>

Out if control a bit too often. Narbury played well, I am surprised we  
don't see moe of him when it us close, rajon has to play smarter, as  
he can be a offensive liability


On May 5, 2009, at 4:56 AM, "gh18 at juno.com" <gh18 at juno.com> wrote:

> In my  line of work.....If the employee can not get to work on time,  
> constantly sick and arguing with the boss, he or she is on drugs.   
> Something is wrong with Rondo!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: boil it down
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
> OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into one word or  
> one player, but still it's Rondo.  I'm glad his difficult game was  
> #6, with the hangover of "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.   
> If he is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I think  
> we're in it.
>
> Other things we need:  continued board dominance by Perk and his  
> helpers, reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen, great spot playing  
> by the next three guys, whoever they are, and the fierce desire that  
> will keep the opponents down once we establish ourselves.
>
> It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the way, we have to  
> use a synthetic glue down South that's flexible in the heat).   
> Thirteen hours before I tune in.  There's not enough yard work, or  
> shopping, or movies in sight.  Guess I can catch up on last week's  
> Daily Show.
> PS:  I think the team that survives beats the Magic.  We can talk  
> about that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6JM8cHyhJD2H8JyX6AknID6WcnZMYEHusqJPW7JdfEyADNXGRS/
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Tue May  5 13:06:51 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 06:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: stink bomb
In-Reply-To: <A121981D-8C46-4526-8E32-A9453A09CC05@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <235448.80646.qm@web63104.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

ugh.? They need to play man 2 man to defend the three - that was ridiculous.? Rondo needs to find his second wind and everybody needs to up the assists.

Way to go, Scal!

El.

--- On Tue, 5/5/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Is Rondo on Drugs?
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 9:04 AM

Out if control a bit too often. Narbury played well, I am surprised we don't
see moe of him when it us close, rajon has to play smarter, as he can be a
offensive liability


On May 5, 2009, at 4:56 AM, "gh18 at juno.com" <gh18 at juno.com>
wrote:

> In my  line of work.....If the employee can not get to work on time,
constantly sick and arguing with the boss, he or she is on drugs.  Something is
wrong with Rondo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: boil it down
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into one word or
one player, but still it's Rondo.  I'm glad his difficult game was #6,
with the hangover of "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.  If he
is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I think we're in it.
> 
> Other things we need:  continued board dominance by Perk and his helpers,
reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen, great spot playing by the next three
guys, whoever they are, and the fierce desire that will keep the opponents down
once we establish ourselves.
> 
> It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the way, we have
to use a synthetic glue down South that's flexible in the heat).  Thirteen
hours before I tune in.  There's not enough yard work, or shopping, or
movies in sight.  Guess I can catch up on last week's Daily Show.
> PS:  I think the team that survives beats the Magic.  We can talk about
that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6JM8cHyhJD2H8JyX6AknID6WcnZMYEHusqJPW7JdfEyADNXGRS/
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Tue May  5 14:25:43 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Rondo on Drugs?
In-Reply-To: <20090505.065626.5840.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <95309.31795.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Well, he definitely needs to settle upon a stable pregame routine.  No more eating fast food or the media's catered food (he had an upset stomach from an extra-spicy pregame meal in Game 7).  And no more getting to the building only an hour before (but who knows the reason behind that--until we do I'll assume the best).

Rondo will have a Rondo game on Wednesday, guaranteed.

Ryan


--- On Tue, 5/5/09, gh18 at juno.com <gh18 at juno.com> wrote:

> From: gh18 at juno.com <gh18 at juno.com>
> Subject: Is Rondo on Drugs?
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 6:56 AM
> In my  line of work.....If the employee can not get to work
> on time, constantly sick and arguing with the boss, he or
> she is on drugs.  Something is wrong with Rondo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
> Subject: boil it down
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> OK, so it's impossible to put our fortunes tonight into
> one word or one player, but still it's Rondo.  I'm
> glad his difficult game was #6, with the hangover of
> "the foul" and the dust-up with Heinrich.  If he
> is loose and energized and hits a few jumpers tonight, I
> think we're in it.
> 
> Other things we need:  continued board dominance by Perk
> and his helpers, reasonable shooting by Pierce and Allen,
> great spot playing by the next three guys, whoever they are,
> and the fierce desire that will keep the opponents down once
> we establish ourselves.
> 
> It's ten hours to go and I'm coming unglued (by the
> way, we have to use a synthetic glue down South that's
> flexible in the heat).  Thirteen hours before I tune in. 
> There's not enough yard work, or shopping, or movies in
> sight.  Guess I can catch up on last week's Daily Show. 
> 
> PS:  I think the team that survives beats the Magic.  We
> can talk about that tomorrow. Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> 
>      
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6JM8cHyhJD2H8JyX6AknID6WcnZMYEHusqJPW7JdfEyADNXGRS/
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Wed May  6 02:34:10 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 22:34:10 -0400
Subject: Great crowd in the Garden!
Message-ID: <20090506023423.D8EFEE19D1D@ignite.igtc.com>

When we were beating up the Bulls in Round 1, their home crowd started booing their own team. How bush is that?

When the Celtics were down by 28, the Boston crowd was yelling "Let's go, Celtics!" And they cheered Rondo after he air-balled a free throw. I was so proud.

Oh, and if you're the Magic, you've got to be scared. The Celtics do everything wrong for most of the game and they still could *easily* have won it. Defense will get you out of some deep holes.

-- Eric


From rondo9 at windstream.net  Wed May  6 02:37:50 2009
From: rondo9 at windstream.net (Troy Hash)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:37:50 -0400
Subject: Great crowd in the Garden!
In-Reply-To: <20090506023423.D8EFEE19D1D@ignite.igtc.com>
References: <20090506023423.D8EFEE19D1D@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c9cdf3$a6980f20$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

lets just hope they come to play from the tip this time "and Rondo gets
there before tip off!"  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Eric Albert
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:34 PM
To: Celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Great crowd in the Garden!

When we were beating up the Bulls in Round 1, their home crowd started
booing their own team. How bush is that?

When the Celtics were down by 28, the Boston crowd was yelling "Let's go,
Celtics!" And they cheered Rondo after he air-balled a free throw. I was so
proud.

Oh, and if you're the Magic, you've got to be scared. The Celtics do
everything wrong for most of the game and they still could *easily* have won
it. Defense will get you out of some deep holes.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.17/2095 - Release Date: 05/05/09
08:05:00



From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Wed May  6 02:49:38 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 19:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Great crowd in the Garden!
Message-ID: <618774.83104.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Yep, I agree with pretty much everything written on the 2 emails below.

Pretty funny about Rondo, it makes us realise these guys are human just like you and me.

It is very interesting that Game 1 versus Orlando was similar to the game a couple of months ago:

http://www.nba.com/games/20090308/ORLBOS/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20090504/ORLBOS/boxscore.html

All the best,

Adam



--- Troy Hash wrote:

lets just hope they come to play from the tip this time "and Rondo gets
there before tip off!"  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Eric Albert
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:34 PM
To: Celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Great crowd in the Garden!

When we were beating up the Bulls in Round 1, their home crowd started
booing their own team. How bush is that?

When the Celtics were down by 28, the Boston crowd was yelling "Let's go,
Celtics!" And they cheered Rondo after he air-balled a free throw. I was so
proud.

Oh, and if you're the Magic, you've got to be scared. The Celtics do
everything wrong for most of the game and they still could *easily* have won
it. Defense will get you out of some deep holes.

-- Eric

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.17/2095 - Release Date: 05/05/09
08:05:00


      Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now.

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Wed May  6 02:59:15 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:59:15 -0400
Subject: test
Message-ID: <00df01c9cdf6$a47527c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

test

From BDodgers at aol.com  Mon May  4 16:41:10 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:41:10 EDT
Subject: Ben Maller's NBA rumors
Message-ID: <c64.4702eeba.373074a6@aol.com>

 
Ben Maller's NBA rumors
 
by FOXSports.com 

 


 
 
_Bulls hoping for Chris Bosh blockbuster trade?_ 
(http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/1556616,CST-SPT-bull04.article) 



An intriguing possibility is All-Star power forward Chris Bosh, who  
becomes a free agent next summer. While the Toronto Raptors have said they  intend 
to sign Bosh to a contract extension, if they don't and Bosh becomes  
available via trade, the Bulls would be interested. That would make Tyrus Thomas  
even more expendable. Unlike Noah, who progressed appreciably as the season 
went  on, Thomas was the same maddeningly inconsistent and often unthinking 
player in  Game 7 as he has been through three seasons. Coach Vinny Del 
Negro played Thomas  only 17 minutes Saturday. -- Chicago Sun-Times ..... Ben's 
 Take: If Toronto wants spare and broken down parts, the Bulls have to  
make a deal for Bosh. Pistons are better bet with Tayshaun Prince available to  
trade.  
_Lakers will let Odom or Ariza leave?_ 
(http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-bresnahan-lakers4-2009may04,0,5294767.story) 
I'd be surprised if both Trevor Ariza and Lamar Odom return to the Lakers.  
The Lakers have already earmarked $74 million for only eight players next  
season. If the two free-agent forwards command, say, $15 million a year in  
combined salaries, the Lakers would be pushed pretty deep into the 
luxury-tax  stratosphere, where nobody seems to want to be in this economy. In other 
words,  it's probably going to be one or the other. Odom, 29, will be more 
expensive and  more versatile. Ariza, 23, will be younger and cheaper. To be 
continued in July.  -- LA Times ..... Ben's Take: Its about time the  Lakers 
let Odom go. He's one of the most overrated players in the NBA every  year. 
 
_Posey, West say Hornets didn't sour on Byron Scott_ 
(http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-43/1241414434296890.xml&coll=1) 
After a sobering first-round playoff elimination by Denver, does Scott 
still  have the ear of this Hornets team? "I believe so," said West, the elder  
statesman who has been with the Hornets since he came into the league in 
2003.  "The guys understand the way he wants to play. Guys play for him. Guys 
have  respect for him. I know I do. I respect what he tries to do. Like I 
said, we got  put in a tough spot. He was put in a tough spot with guys being 
banged up. Even  in the beginning, I don't think we had a good enough rhythm, 
where we played  together well enough throughout the year to make a 
sustainable run." Forward  James Posey, who has played for six NBA teams and won 
two championships, said  Scott and the staff did their jobs this season. It 
was the players who didn't.  "I believe that even though they fire the coaches 
and things like that  throughout the league, regardless of the level, it's 
the players that go out  there and are supposed to get it done," Posey said. 
"If you have players that  buy into the system and go out there and do what 
they're supposed to do,  everything is fine. Sometimes when you don't have 
players out there doing what  the coach asks them to do, man, the players 
for the most part don't get  punished. It's always the coaches that go. "I 
think everything is pretty  positive around here. I think we have a good 
coaching staff that prepared us  every night for what we were supposed to do. When 
we didn't do it, that's when  we lost ball games." -- New Orleans 
Times-Picayune .....  Ben's Take: Either the Hornets quit on Scott, or he's the worst 
NBA  coach in history. You don't lose by 58 points at home in the playoffs, 
without  trying to get your coach fired.  
_Jamaal Magloire to Raptors?_ 
(http://www.torontosun.com/sports/basketball/2009/05/04/9339986-sun.html) 
The Raptors are looking for toughness, an area GM Bryan Colangelo admitted  
needs addressing when he talked to the media at his season-in-review news  
conference. Politics and personal baggage aside, Magloire can help the 
Raptors  because the team is so thin up front. ... Now comes the moment of truth 
of  whether the Raptors are willing to take a gamble on Magloire. One of the 
NBA's  unwritten rules of thumb is to avoid, if possible, signing players 
who live in  that team's city. There are too many headaches associated with 
such a reunion,  but there are exceptions. The Raptors should at least look 
at Magloire, whose  stock isn't exactly high. -- Toronto Star  
_Pacers are stuck with injured Mike Dunleavy_ 
(http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2009/05/dont_back_his_b.html) 
"What do you think about Dunleavy's future with the Pacers? I think they  
should try to trade him now that Rush showed he's ready to take over at 
shooting  guard." Slow down. How do you expect to trade a player whose return to 
the  lineup is up in the air and will make $20.4 million in the final two 
years of  his contract? What team would acquire a player that nobody knows if 
he'll be the  same when he returns and has two years left on his contract? 
Exactly. "Nothing  that I've heard has Michael coming back anytime before 
January," coach Jim  O'Brien said last month. "It's not even on my radar, 
Michael Dunleavy coming  back. I have to approach next year like he's not coming 
back because you have to  build a team." O'Brien has already said he thinks 
Brandon Rush will be the  starting shooting guard next season. -- Indy Star  
_Source: Kevin McHale has three-year offer to coach Wolves_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/05/03/too_big_to_ignore?mode=PF) 
An NBA source said former Celtics star Kevin McHale turned down a 
three-year  offer to coach the Timberwolves after he was moved from his general 
manager  position to coach Dec. 8. While McHale has been noncommittal about 
whether he'd  like to return next season, the three-year offer is off the table 
now, since  owner Glen Taylor is expected to hire a new GM, likely from 
outside, who will  make the coaching hire. By removing himself from the coaching 
decision, Taylor  would make it easier to deal with the situation if the new 
GM doesn't bring his  friend McHale back. -- Boston Globe ..... Ben's  
Take: McHale will be forced to make a decision after the team hires a  new GM. 
>From what I hear, McHale isn't going to be coaching the Wolves next  year. 
Some already have him taking a secondary role in the Celtics front office.  We 
will see...  
_Heat's Jamario Moon and Luther Head become free agents_ 
(http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/basketball/miami-heat/story/1030915.html) 
With Sunday's elimination, Heat players Jamario Moon, Jamaal Magloire, 
Luther  Head and Joel Anthony move on to free agency this summer. Each player 
said they  hope to re-sign with the Heat for at least the 2009-10 season. 
Miami also has  four other players who can opt out of their contracts to become 
free agents:  Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Quinn, Yakhouba Diawara and Mark 
Blount. But none of  those players is likely to exercise his option. -- Miami 
Herald  
_Bobcats could go after Antonio McDyess?_ 
(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/206/story/702404.html) 
Antonio McDyess, late of the Detroit Pistons. He's one of Bobcats coach 
Larry  Brown's all-time favorites and can play power forward and center. He 
started out  as an unrefined athlete, but now he knows the game. The smart move 
would be  using his final two or three seasons with a title contender, but 
if there was  ever a time for Brown to leverage his personal relationship 
with Dice, it's now.  -- Charlotte Observer  
_John Paxson to be replaced as Bulls GM_ 
(http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/1556616,CST-SPT-bull04.article) 
The offseason moves begin in earnest this week, when the Bulls are expected 
 to make director of player personnel Gar Forman the general manager. John 
Paxson  will be elevated to a new position, akin to team president, 
overseeing Forman,  who will take over day-to-day operations of the front office. -- 
Chicago  Sun-Times  
_Ex-Heat GM Pfund headed to Wolves?_ 
(http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/basketball/miami-heat/story/1030915.html) 
Former Heat general manager Randy Pfund has surfaced as a potential 
candidate  for a similar position with the Minnesota Timberwolves. Pfund told the 
St. Paul  Pioneer Press on Saturday that he was interested in the Minnesota 
job. 'There  are several opportunities out there, the Wolves' position being 
one, that  intrigue me,'' said Pfund, who still resides in South Florida. -- 
Miami  Herald  
_Ben Gordon open to Bulls free agency return_ 
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-03-bulls-brite-chicago-may03,0,3651849.story) 
With the Bulls eliminated and Ben Gordon poised to become an unrestricted  
free agent on July 1, he approached the subject like a wide-open 
three-pointer.  "I'd like to be here," Gordon said. "But I wanted to be here long-term 
the last  two summers too, and it didn't happen. So you never know." Gordon 
has said he  won't rule out anything this summer. That means the Bulls have 
a chance -- even  if it's small -- to re-sign their leading scorer. It's 
likely the Bulls would  have to make other moves to re-sign Gordon and avoid 
luxury-tax territory.  -- Chicago Tribune ..... Ben's Take: Ben Gordon  isn't 
stupid, he'll bring his crotch grabbing act back to Chicago if they pay  him 
enough. Keep hearing only a few teams are in love with Gordon's game and  
they don't have cap space. Could we see a sign and trade?  
_Magic's Courtney Lee doesn't travel with team_ 
(http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-bk-orlando-magic-courtney-lee-050309,0,42771
2.story) 
For the second consecutive day, Orlando Magic shooting guard Courtney Lee 
did  not feel up to even watching his team practice Sunday and might not make 
the  trip to Boston. Lee, who had nasal-cavity surgery this past Thursday, 
might fly  up tomorrow to see the opening game of the second-round NBA 
playoff series  against the Boston Celtics. -- Orlando Sentinel  
_Hinrich wants to stay with Bulls_ 
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-04-bulls-rostermay04,0,6417261,print.story) 
Kirk Hinrich: Almost dealt to Minnesota at the trade deadline, he 
rejuvenated  his career in a reserve role. "I would love to play my whole career with 
 Chicago," he said. "I grew up a Bulls fan. I love it here. I love the 
town. But  I don't know if that's realistic. We'll see what happens." -- Chicago 
 Tribune  
_Celts Marbury into second round for first time_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/05/04/exhausted_options/) 
For the first time in 13 NBA seasons, Stephon Marbury advanced into the  
second round. "For me, it's great getting out of the first round and getting 
the  monkey off of my back," Marbury said. "Going into the second round is 
like a  breath of fresh air. Going into the second round, this situation is 
totally  different. I even feel different." -- Boston Globe  
_Yao Ming expecting different defense from Lakers_ 
(http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6406038.html) 
Yao Ming expects to see the customary double teams on him by the Lakers, 
but  even that would allow him to have more touches and a greater role in the  
Rockets' offense than the fronting double team with centers and power 
forwards  used by the Trail Blazers in the first round. Typically, the Lakers 
challenge  entry passes to Yao, but play behind him with double teams from the 
perimeter.  "They have two 7-footers. Who knows?" Yao said. "That's what 
they did in the  regular season. It's the playoffs now. They might change the 
game plan. I don't  know. "If they have nobody on me, I'll be even happier." 
-- Houston  Chronicle  
_Lakers  forward Walton expected to sit out Game 1_ 
(http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_12282611) 
Luke Walton's injured left ankle has improved, but not to the point to 
which  the Lakers forward will be able to play in Game 1 against Houston on 
Monday  night at Staples Center. Lakers coach Phil Jackson all but ruled Walton 
out of  the opener of the Western Conference semifinal series against the 
Rockets,  saying, "It will be a big surprise if he's ready for the first 
ballgame."  Walton, a backup, was injured in Game 4 of the Lakers' first-round 
victory  against Utah. -- LA Daily News  
_Sam Mitchell might join Wizards_ 
(http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_12282218?nclick_check=1) 
Besides ex-Timberwolves coach Randy Wittman, who is a sure bet, the latest  
names mentioned as possible assistants for former Wolves coach Flip 
Saunders,  who will coach the Washington Wizards next season, are former NBA head 
coaches  Sam Mitchell, Terry Porter and Eric Musselman. -- Pioneer Press 
..... Ben's Take: Sam Mitchell was a quote machine as  head man in Toronto, 
would love to see him back in the NBA. Lets hope Mitchell  gets a head job 
again, need more of his famous zingers.  
_Raptors GM would be happy with No. 9 pick_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/05/03/too_big_to_ignore?mode=PF) 
The Raptors will enter the draft lottery May 19 with the ninth-best odds.  
With All-Star forward Chris Bosh, guard Jose Calderon, forward-center Andrea 
 Bargnani, and possibly returning forward Shawn Marion, the addition of a 
quality  draft pick could jump-start Toronto. Raptors general manager Bryan 
Colangelo  said he would have no problems if his franchise stood pat after 
the lottery with  the ninth pick. When he was in Phoenix, Colangelo drafted 
Marion and Amare  Stoudemire with ninth picks. "I think that we'd get a great 
player at No. 9,"  said Colangelo. "I like 9 for some reason. But if I get 
1, 2, or 3, I won't  complain. But I like 8, 9, and 10, too." -- Boston Globe 
 
_LeBron James wishes he could have played college football_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/sports/basketball/03james.html?pagewanted=2&ref=sports) 
Had he gone to college, Cavs star LeBron James said, he would have wanted 
to  play basketball and football. "The thing that I miss most of all is the  
competition," he said. "Just the physical play. Scoring touchdowns was the 
best  for me. I grew up playing football, and I always loved just going out 
and  competing." -- NY Times ..... Ben's Take: If  LeBron had ended up at 
Duke, he wouldn't have wanted to play college  football.  
_Mavs Dirk Nowitzki doesn't get calls_ 
(http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/050409dnspomavsbriefs.389adf7.html) 
Dirk Nowitzki was slumped in a locker-room chair after the game and could  
feel his hours of work wearing on his head. And his shoulder, as well as his 
 bruised and scratched hands and wrists. They had all taken a beating 
during Game  1 of the Western Conference semifinals. He made four attempts at the 
free throw  line, five if you include a technical foul shot he took. Seemed 
a little  implausible to his coach, at least. "It's hard for me to believe 
Dirk Nowitzki  only shoots four free throws during this game with the way 
he's being played,"  Rick Carlisle said. "And I'll look at that closely. If 
the referees were right,  they were right. But he's being played very 
physically, way [out] on the floor,  where the rules are different than in post 
play. "That's something we'll look  at, and if there's a complaint to be made, 
we'll talk to the league about it."  -- Dallas Morning News  
_UConn's Thabeet should entice NBA GMs_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/05/03/too_big_to_ignore?mode=PF) 
Perhaps the most amazing thing about Connecticut's Hasheem Thabeet is his  
athleticism. An NBA scout said he would be the most athletic "true center" 
in  the league. "Dwight [Howard] is a hybrid center who is really a power 
forward,"  the scout said. "[Thabeet] is a true center. You're not going to 
find one in our  league more athletic, agile, and coordinated with 
shot-blocking instincts."  Thabeet, who signed with agent Bill Duffy, has been working 
out with a trainer  in Palo Alto, Calif., and will be going to Los Angeles 
soon for more workouts  and to train against other draft prospects. "I'm 
really excited and anxious,"  Thabeet said. "I've been working out a lot. I'm 
trying to stay in shape. I've  been looking forward to this. I wouldn't say I'm 
nervous. I put my name in that  hat, so I have to deal with it. I have to 
get ready for it. "I can see the  difference from last year to this year. 
I've been working hard in the gym every  day. So far, I'm feeling good about 
myself." The scout said the No. 2 pick will  likely come down to Thabeet or 
Rubio. Rubio, an exciting floor general from  Spain, would sell more tickets 
and jerseys than Thabeet. But while great point  guards are hard to find, 
talented young centers are even rarer - and don't  forget the old clich? that 
you can't teach height. -- Boston Globe   
_Cavs asst GM not up for Wolves front office gig_ 
(xhttp://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/05/03/sports/nh843331.txt) 
The Timberwolves have not asked for permission to interview Cavs assistant 
GM  Lance Blanks for their head of operations job. -- Cleveland  News-Herald 
 
_NBA Superstar: I might need to go to Tweet-hab_ 
(http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sportsorlando-magic-dwight-howard-050309may
03,0,4536445,print.story) 
Dwight Howard said after the Magic's first practice since ousting the 
Sixers  that he won't make the same the mistake again, although he did enjoy his 
"Magic  viewing party" with friends and family. "It was fun. I felt like I 
was a fan. I  was cheering and Twittering," said Howard, who conducted a 
running commentary  through the social networking giant and ate a lot of pizza. 
"I was Twittering  and Tweeting so much I think I might need to go to 
Tweet-hab." -- Orlando  Sentinel ..... Ben's Take: Lets hope thats the only  rehab 
Dwight Howard needs in his NBA career.  
_Brad Miller and John Salmons part of Bulls plans_ 
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-04-bulls-rostermay04,0,6417261,print.story
) 
Chicago Bulls Brad Miller and John Salmons: Talk about low-maintenance  
veterans. Miller will be valuable either as a savvy veteran on the floor or  
because his $12.25 million contract expires. Salmons is a bargain whose 
contract  could be extended. "I love playing here," he said. -- Chicago Tribune  
_Flip Saunders to bring son to Wizards staff?_ 
(http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/44235597.html?page=3&c=y) 
Don't be surprised if Flip Saunders, in his new job as coach of the  
Washington Wizards, adds his son Ryan to his coaching staff in some capacity.  
Ryan was on the Gophers staff the past year. -- Minneapolis Star  Tribune  
_Heat's Haslem commits cheap shot_ 
(http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/stories/2009/05/03/hawks_pachulia.html) 
Once it became clear the Hawks' lead would stay at or over 20 points late 
in  the game, it was only a matter of time before the hard fouls turned into  
something worse. Heat forward Udonis Haslem was ejected for a flagrant foul 
2 on  Zaza Pachulia with 3:51 to play. And Haslem didn't go quietly. He 
snatched his  jersey off as he was escorted to the locker room, a move that's 
sure to earn him  a fine from the league. -- Atlanta Journal-Constitution  
_Isiah Thomas proving to be a classless at FIU_ 
(http://www.nypost.com/seven/05032009/sports/knicks/isiah_making_enemies_in_new_fiu_job_167375.htm) 
Isiah Thomas already has angered a handful of Florida high school coaches 
in  his two weeks at the job at Florida International University. The former 
Knicks  president/coach is being accused of tactless behavior in failing to 
personally  phone three FIU recruits to inform them they were no longer 
wanted despite  scholarship offers from the past regime. -- NY Post .....  Ben's 
Take: Isiah has been the same way for years, did FIU expect him  to change? 
 
_How About That?_ 
(http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/05/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_7.html) 
Until LeBron James arrived in 2003, the Cavs had appeared in the second 
round  of the playoffs only three times (1976, 1992 and 1993). That's three 
times in 33  years. This is the fourth consecutive season James has led the 
Cavs at least  that far. The Cavs are the only team to make it to the second 
round in each of  the last four years, now that Detroit and San Antonio were 
eliminated in the  first round. -- Cleveland Plain Dealer  
_Lakers coach Phil Jackson part of failed Dennis Rodman  intervention_ 
(http://www.nypost.com/seven/05032009/gossip/pagesix/other_priorities_167431.htm)
 
Former NBA star Dennis Rodman is hitting a rough patch again. Friends of 
the  wacky athlete, who was re cently kicked off "Celebrity Appren tice," 
tried to  stage an intervention for him last week. We're told his wife, Michelle 
Moyer,  gathered his friends, in cluding Lakers coach Phil Jackson, to "get 
Dennis to go  to rehab." But our source said, "He wouldn't go because he 
doesn't want to miss  the taping of the 'Celebrity Apprentice' reunion." A rep 
for Rodman said, "Yes,  they tried an intervention but, unfortunately, 
Dennis refused to go. We all know  how amazing he is when sober, and we hope he 
gets there soon." -- NY Post ..... Ben's Take: If Mike Tyson can somewhat 
clean up  his life, anything is possible. Odds are less than 5% for Rodman.  
_Who Knew?_ 
(http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/050409dnspomavsbriefs.389adf7.html) 
In NBA history, the team winning Game 1 of a best-of-7 series wins the 
series  78.5 percent of the time (303 of 386). -- Dallas Morning News  
_NBA star grabs  KFC after dining at high-end restaurant_ 
(http://www.lvrj.com/news/44256187.html) 
On Thursday in Louisville, former UNLV basketball star Shawn Marion, 
spotted  dining at Jack Fry's, a popular high-end restaurant. After leaving Jack 
Fry's,  he was seen ordering takeout at a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken 
franchise and  chowing down on the fast food in the back seat of a Rolls Royce 
sedan. --  Las Vegas Review-Journal ..... Ben's Take: Any better  ways to 
impress NBA GM's as a free agent? Teams are lining up for a guy who  enjoys a 
healthy order of KFC in the back of a Rolls. Thats living life!  
_Patrick Ewing bonked head in Philly_ 
(http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/dan_gross/20090504_Dan_Gross__Stern_s_Captain__in_the_brig__takes_new_
broadsides.html) 
Orlando Magic assistant coach Patrick Ewing bonked his head going down the  
stairs to the bathroom at the Water Works where the former Knicks star 
dined the  night before the Sixers were eliminated from the playoffs. Ewing was 
gracious to  fans who approached, and posed for photos with a number of 
them. --  Philadelphia Daily News  
Say hi to Ben Maller at _myspace.com/benmaller_ 
(http://www.myspace.com/benmaller) . Get special rumor updates and follow the  life and times of Ben 
Maller on Twitter at _Twitter.com/benmaller_ (http://twitter.com/benmaller)   
Interact with Ben's fans and talk sports on _Ben Maller's forum_ 
(http://www.benmaller.com/forum/)   Questions, comments and news tips can be sent to 
Ben via e mail at _Ben at BenMaller.com._ (mailto:%20ben at benmaller.com) 
**************2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All 
3 Bureaus FREE! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221797372x1201397989/aol?redir=https:%2F%2Fwww.freescore.com%2FOffers%2FStart%2FFreeCreditRepor
tAndScore.aspx%3FID%3D91831F371F138345B53A153F49D4D872%26siteid%3De927580bf7
)

From eml at vnatale.com  Tue May  5 02:31:02 2009
From: eml at vnatale.com (Vinny Natale)
Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 22:31:02 -0400
Subject: Does...
Message-ID: <20090505023145.BEA6FE19CE0@ignite.igtc.com>

Does TNT always show these non-essential promos during the game??!!

Vinny


From green00333444 at yahoo.com  Wed May  6 13:52:32 2009
From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 06:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <00df01c9cdf6$a47527c0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>
Message-ID: <296705.56609.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the off season and mid-season signings.

1.  Chris Anderson

Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.

2.  James Posey

Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.

3.  Mikki Moore

Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were about to become available.  

4.  Tony Allen

I still don't understand why the C's didn't pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and there were better players out there...

Who did I miss?

Charles




      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed May  6 16:03:32 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <296705.56609.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <713788.58544.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen as lucky...

Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2 year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  

Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  

Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he was released (he said he had unfinished business and would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...

Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone, unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.  When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.  But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or Walker emerge.

Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get more value for less dollars than we would have last season.  Danny knows what he's doing...

Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of
> repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin
> the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the
> off season and mid-season signings.
> 
> 1.  Chris Anderson
> 
> Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from
> Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris
> Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> 
> 2.  James Posey
> 
> Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move
> but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have
> no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of
> small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading
> for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> 
> 3.  Mikki Moore
> 
> Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an
> extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were
> about to become available.  
> 
> 4.  Tony Allen
> 
> I still don't understand why the C's didn't
> pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the
> summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and
> there were better players out there...
> 
> Who did I miss?
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed May  6 16:36:08 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 12:36:08 -0400
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <713788.58544.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090506123608.342HZ.119059.imail@eastrmwml14>

I coultn't have said that any better.  We have been lucky and unlucky in the same season.  Garnett's loss (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality minutes at the same position) was/is devestating to the C's attempt at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the signing of Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith etc.) this past summer may prove beneficial for the future. I realize that our window is now, but without KG and Powe, the window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is a moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando and make it to the conference finals, IMO we would have overachieved given our present condition.

--- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen as lucky...
> 
> Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2 year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  
> 
> Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  
> 
> Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he was released (he said he had unfinished business and would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> 
> Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone, unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.  When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.  But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or Walker emerge.
> 
> Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get more value for less dollars than we would have last season.  Danny knows what he's doing...
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of
> > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin
> > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the
> > off season and mid-season signings.
> > 
> > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > 
> > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from
> > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris
> > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > 
> > 2.  James Posey
> > 
> > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move
> > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have
> > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of
> > small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading
> > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > 
> > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > 
> > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an
> > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were
> > about to become available.  
> > 
> > 4.  Tony Allen
> > 
> > I still don't understand why the C's didn't
> > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the
> > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and
> > there were better players out there...
> > 
> > Who did I miss?
> > 
> > Charles
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed May  6 17:23:16 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:23:16 -0400
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <713788.58544.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <296705.56609.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<713788.58544.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905061723.n46HNLDe012899@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of them going further into lux tax than they already are is very slim. 

If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins ownership group that got a championship and then sold off every asset they had to make some money back the next season only to have a terrific scouting department get them another championship a couple years later (at which time they sold all them off/traded them away) and now languish in mediocrity. 

I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE guy walking through that door? No way.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes


First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen as lucky...

Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2 year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  

Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  

Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he was released (he said he had unfinished business and would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...

Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone, unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.  When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.  But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or Walker emerge.

Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get more value for less dollars than we would have last season.  Danny knows what he's doing...


Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of
> repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin
> the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the
> off season and mid-season signings.
> 
> 1.  Chris Anderson
> 
> Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from
> Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris
> Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> 
> 2.  James Posey
> 
> Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move
> but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have
> no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of
> small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading
> for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> 
> 3.  Mikki Moore
> 
> Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an
> extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were
> about to become available.  
> 
> 4.  Tony Allen
> 
> I still don't understand why the C's didn't
> pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the
> summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and
> there were better players out there...
> 
> Who did I miss?
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Wed May  6 18:58:11 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 14:58:11 -0400
Subject: 2009-2010 Celtics
In-Reply-To: <200905061723.n46HNLDe012899@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
References: <296705.56609.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com><713788.58544.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<200905061723.n46HNLDe012899@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <8CB9C93B6282D8F-15A8-D78@WEBMAIL-DY23.sysops.aol.com>

I see our starting five plus Davis as being "musts."

Irksome issue #1 - Powe:? keep him for the right small money, even though it would have to be two years just to see if he can play again.? Given his injury, would anyone else try to sign him?? Is there such a thing as a minimum contract we could offer for two years?? Would anyone want to offer a longer deal?

Irksome issue #2 - Marbury/Pruitt:? Gabe?has evidently been a disappointment, but which of those two do you keep?? Marbury, because he's older and can fill in until we get a youngster to bring up behind Rondo?? Pruit is like Eisley in Utah - doomed to be #2 forever - if he stays in Boston.? Or do you continue to groom Pruitt in hopes of using him as trade bait?

Irksome issue #3 - Tony:? the biggest question of all, IMHO

Walker:? not a contract problem, so he's a keeper.

Giddens:? a total unknwn to me, but again, not a contract problem.

House: is he on a two-year deal?? If so, I don't see any trouble keeping him for the second year.? 

Scal: gone

Moore: gone





And we get at least one draft pick, right?


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:23 am
Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes



While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I tend to also agree 
with one very infintesimal aspect of the Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - 
and that aspect is they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of 
them going further into lux tax than they already are is very slim. 

If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA lockout "maybe" 
looming (sorry didn't mean to rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners 
laying out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they hadn't won it all 
last year then I believe they probably would have. They remind me very much of 
the Florida Marlins ownership group that got a championship and then sold off 
every asset they had to make some money back the next season only to have a 
terrific scouting department get them another championship a couple years later 
(at which time they sold all them off/traded them away) and now languish in 
mediocrity. 

I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap friendly deal, 
probably even go through the motions with T.Allen before letting him go before 
going forward with Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year 
(which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE guy walking through 
that door? No way.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of 
Ryan W
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes


First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle to another championship.  
No matter what we would have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't 
have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with an eye towards 
this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out this season, if any season where KG 
gets injured can be seen as lucky...

Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his summer workout with Cs and 
coming off a scary drug-related 2 year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also 
out of shape,
 too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line when 
veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  

Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already looking to move him and 
we'd be toast if we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  

Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was going back to Cleveland 
all along, he even said so after he was released (he said he had unfinished 
business and would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the 
year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...

Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone, unfortunately.  Other than his 
major knee injuries, this was the first season where he really struggled to stay 
healthy.  When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is still a 
steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do on the court.  If he ever 
sees court time with a legitimate point guard, he's due to have a good, 
consistent year.  But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or Walker 
emerge.

Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but without KG is doesn't 
matter very much.  We've positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and 
should get more value for less dollars than we would have last season.  Danny 
knows what he's doing...


Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of
> repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin
> the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the
> off season and mid-season signings.
> 
> 1.  Chris Anderson
> 
> Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from
> Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris
> Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> 
> 2.  James Posey
> 
> Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move
> but the win
dow of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have
> no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of
> small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading
> for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> 
> 3.  Mikki Moore
> 
> Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an
> extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were
> about to become available.  
> 
> 4.  Tony Allen
> 
> I still don't understand why the C's didn't
> pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the
> summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and
> there were better players out there...
> 
> Who did I miss?
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed May  6 20:17:09 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 16:17:09 -0400
Subject: 2009-2010 Celtics
In-Reply-To: <8CB9C93B6282D8F-15A8-D78@WEBMAIL-DY23.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090506161709.3LMVL.188859.imail@eastrmwml41>

Only a 2nd rounder.
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> I see our starting five plus Davis as being "musts."
> 
> Irksome issue #1 - Powe:? keep him for the right small money, even though it would have to be two years just to see if he can play again.? Given his injury, would anyone else try to sign him?? Is there such a thing as a minimum contract we could offer for two years?? Would anyone want to offer a longer deal?
> 
> Irksome issue #2 - Marbury/Pruitt:? Gabe?has evidently been a disappointment, but which of those two do you keep?? Marbury, because he's older and can fill in until we get a youngster to bring up behind Rondo?? Pruit is like Eisley in Utah - doomed to be #2 forever - if he stays in Boston.? Or do you continue to groom Pruitt in hopes of using him as trade bait?
> 
> Irksome issue #3 - Tony:? the biggest question of all, IMHO
> 
> Walker:? not a contract problem, so he's a keeper.
> 
> Giddens:? a total unknwn to me, but again, not a contract problem.
> 
> House: is he on a two-year deal?? If so, I don't see any trouble keeping him for the second year.? 
> 
> Scal: gone
> 
> Moore: gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we get at least one draft pick, right?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
> Sent: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:23 am
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I tend to also agree 
> with one very infintesimal aspect of the Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - 
> and that aspect is they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of 
> them going further into lux tax than they already are is very slim. 
> 
> If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA lockout "maybe" 
> looming (sorry didn't mean to rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners 
> laying out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they hadn't won it all 
> last year then I believe they probably would have. They remind me very much of 
> the Florida Marlins ownership group that got a championship and then sold off 
> every asset they had to make some money back the next season only to have a 
> terrific scouting department get them another championship a couple years later 
> (at which time they sold all them off/traded them away) and now languish in 
> mediocrity. 
> 
> I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap friendly deal, 
> probably even go through the motions with T.Allen before letting him go before 
> going forward with Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year 
> (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE guy walking through 
> that door? No way.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ryan W
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle to another championship.  
> No matter what we would have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't 
> have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with an eye towards 
> this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out this season, if any season where KG 
> gets injured can be seen as lucky...
> 
> Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his summer workout with Cs and 
> coming off a scary drug-related 2 year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also 
> out of shape,
>  too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line when 
> veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  
> 
> Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already looking to move him and 
> we'd be toast if we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  
> 
> Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was going back to Cleveland 
> all along, he even said so after he was released (he said he had unfinished 
> business and would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the 
> year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> 
> Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone, unfortunately.  Other than his 
> major knee injuries, this was the first season where he really struggled to stay 
> healthy.  When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is still a 
> steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do on the court.  If he ever 
> sees court time with a legitimate point guard, he's due to have a good, 
> consistent year.  But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or Walker 
> emerge.
> 
> Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but without KG is doesn't 
> matter very much.  We've positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and 
> should get more value for less dollars than we would have last season.  Danny 
> knows what he's doing...
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance of
> > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just how thin
> > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with both the
> > off season and mid-season signings.
> > 
> > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > 
> > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ??? from
> > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as Chris
> > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > 
> > 2.  James Posey
> > 
> > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good move
> > but the win
> dow of opportunity is rapidly closing.  They have
> > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type of
> > small line up they used in crunch time last year.  Trading
> > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > 
> > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > 
> > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They showed an
> > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon were
> > about to become available.  
> > 
> > 4.  Tony Allen
> > 
> > I still don't understand why the C's didn't
> > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in the
> > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by now and
> > there were better players out there...
> > 
> > Who did I miss?
> > 
> > Charles
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed May  6 23:36:30 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 16:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: First,
Message-ID: <35243.91797.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fatigue itself, not bodily fatigue as much as mental fatigue, the little lapses that cause a slower defensive response, a reluctance to cover on transition defense, a tendency toward waiting for Paul or Ray to get it going.? That probably comes from fatigue of the body.
?
I think this team can beat them all, but I don't get the sense that they are able to put together the continuous surge it takes.? We have the warriors, but they need to summon their greatness now.? It's great to watch, but I would rather they show their best rather than spurts of their best.? Sure would love to see if we could beat Cleveland.? One thing for sure--we'll pretty well know by Sunday.? Go Green.? Gene


      

From eml at vnatale.com  Thu May  7 02:05:57 2009
From: eml at vnatale.com (Vinny Natale)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 22:05:57 -0400
Subject: Celtics by 50!
In-Reply-To: <35243.91797.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35243.91797.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090507020617.094FBE19595@ignite.igtc.com>

The Celtics have outscored the Magic by about 50 points over the last 
four quarters that they've played them!


Vinny


From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu May  7 15:16:02 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 11:16:02 -0400
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <8CB9D3DDE7B4336-13D0-7C@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>

Danny Ainge brought us Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and a championship.? He brought us Rajon Rondo and a future.? Not bad.

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 15:53:05 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
Message-ID: <474634.36588.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong.  

Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we need player X to get over the top then he'll give him player X.  Danny didn't say that last season with Posey and it was the right move then and now and in future too.  Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents available and there are a few of them left out in the cold because not everybody's going to get paid, you can expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax.  And you know what?  I think they'll do it because they're fans and they like winning.  If Danny wants it and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.

The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison.  The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off after winning a championship.  We won after trading our young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and we're not in danger of selling any of our younger players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because he's about to become a superstar? HA!).  Bad comparison.

I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE this summer.  How much depends on what Baby needs to come back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension.  

Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I
> tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the
> Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is
> they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of
> them going further into lux tax than they already are is
> very slim. 
> 
> If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA
> lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to
> rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying
> out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they
> hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably
> would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins
> ownership group that got a championship and then sold off
> every asset they had to make some money back the next season
> only to have a terrific scouting department get them another
> championship a couple years later (at which time they sold
> all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> mediocrity. 
> 
> I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap
> friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with
> T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with
> Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year
> (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE
> guy walking through that door? No way.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle
> to another championship.  No matter what we would have done
> in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with
> an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out
> this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen
> as lucky...
> 
> Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  
> 
> Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already
> looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have
> signed him for 4 seasons.  
> 
> Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was
> going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he
> was released (he said he had unfinished business and would
> have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the
> year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> 
> Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> Walker emerge.
> 
> Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but
> without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> Danny knows what he's doing...
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance
> of
> > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just
> how thin
> > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with
> both the
> > off season and mid-season signings.
> > 
> > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > 
> > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ???
> from
> > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as
> Chris
> > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > 
> > 2.  James Posey
> > 
> > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good
> move
> > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing. 
> They have
> > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type
> of
> > small line up they used in crunch time last year. 
> Trading
> > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > 
> > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > 
> > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> showed an
> > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon
> were
> > about to become available.  
> > 
> > 4.  Tony Allen
> > 
> > I still don't understand why the C's
> didn't
> > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in
> the
> > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by
> now and
> > there were better players out there...
> > 
> > Who did I miss?
> > 
> > Charles
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 15:59:12 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <20090506123608.342HZ.119059.imail@eastrmwml14>
Message-ID: <719080.86156.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Martin, you speak of the window and repeat the oft-uttered phrase that our window is now.  Well, Mr. Rajon Rondo and Mr. Kendrick Perkins, might have something to say about that.  They're 23 and 24 respectively and they play the hardest positions to fill in the NBA.  As the Big 3 age, Rondo and Perk (with Baby and Walker and whoever else Danny drafts) will pick up the slack.  Our window is now AND 5 years down the road, AT LEAST, assuming no major injuries....

This is why Danny didn't panic last summer and sign Posey to a bloated 4-year contract.  He knew his young studs at point guard and center would improve enough to make up for what Posey's loss might necessitate replacing...

If Rondo keeps playing like he has been...I don't think it's crazy to think we might get back to the Finals this season.

Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
> I coultn't have said that any better.  We have been
> lucky and unlucky in the same season.  Garnett's loss
> (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality minutes at
> the same position) was/is devestating to the C's attempt
> at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the signing of
> Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith etc.)
> this past summer may prove beneficial for the future. I
> realize that our window is now, but without KG and Powe, the
> window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is a
> moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando and make
> it to the conference finals, IMO we would have overachieved
> given our present condition.
> 
> --- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big
> hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would
> have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't
> have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer
> (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked
> out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be
> seen as lucky...
> > 
> > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  
> > 
> > Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is
> already looking to move him and we'd be toast if
> we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.  
> > 
> > Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith
> was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after
> he was released (he said he had unfinished business and
> would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team
> the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > 
> > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> Walker emerge.
> > 
> > Bottom line: we could have done things differently,
> but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> Danny knows what he's doing...
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic
> chance of
> > > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out
> just how thin
> > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it
> with both the
> > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > 
> > > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > > 
> > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or
> ??? from
> > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> effective as Chris
> > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > 
> > > 2.  James Posey
> > > 
> > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a
> good move
> > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
>  They have
> > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the
> type of
> > > small line up they used in crunch time last year.
>  Trading
> > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but
> they
> > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > 
> > > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > > 
> > > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> showed an
> > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> Gordon were
> > > about to become available.  
> > > 
> > > 4.  Tony Allen
> > > 
> > > I still don't understand why the C's
> didn't
> > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> available in the
> > > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known
> by now and
> > > there were better players out there...
> > > 
> > > Who did I miss?
> > > 
> > > Charles
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu May  7 16:27:53 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:27:53 -0400
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <719080.86156.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>

Ryan, I beg to disagree.  Rondo and Perk and Baby could well be the 
core of a very good team, but it's KG and Ray and Pierce who make this 
a championship team.

A change in the lexicon:  never again shall a team wish it had a 
"Vinnie Johnson type."  From now on, they'll all want an "Eddie House 
type."


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thu, 7 May 2009 8:59 am
Subject: Re: the Window



Martin, you speak of the window and repeat the oft-uttered phrase that 
our
window is now.  Well, Mr. Rajon Rondo and Mr. Kendrick Perkins, might 
have
something to say about that.  They're 23 and 24 respectively and they 
play the
hardest positions to fill in the NBA.  As the Big 3 age, Rondo and Perk 
(with
Baby and Walker and whoever else Danny drafts) will pick up the slack.  
Our
window is now AND 5 years down the road, AT LEAST, assuming no major
injuries....

This is why Danny didn't panic last summer and sign Posey to a bloated 
4-year
contract.  He knew his young studs at point guard and center would 
improve
enough to make up for what Posey's loss might necessitate replacing...

If Rondo keeps playing like he has been...I don't think it's crazy to 
think we
might get back to the Finals this season.

Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
<celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
> I coultn't have said that any better.  We have been
> lucky and unlucky in the same season.  Garnett's loss
> (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality minutes at
> the same position) was/is devestating to the C's attempt
> at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the signing of
> Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith etc.)
> this past summer may prove beneficial for the future. I
> realize that our window is now, but without KG and Powe, the
> window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is a
> moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando and make
> it to the conference finals, IMO we would have overachieved
> given our present condition.
>
> --- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big
> hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would
> have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't
> have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer
> (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked
> out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be
> seen as lucky...
> >
> > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.
> >
> > Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is
> already looking to move him and we'd be toast if
> we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.
> >
> > Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith
> was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after
> he was released (he said he had unfinished business and
> would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team
> the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> >
> > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.
> When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.
> But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> Walker emerge.
> >
> > Bottom line: we could have done things differently,
> but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> more value for less dollars than we would have last season.
> Danny knows what he's doing...
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic
> chance of
> > > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out
> just how thin
> > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it
> with both the
> > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > >
> > > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > >
> > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or
> ??? from
> > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> effective as Chris
> > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > >
> > > 2.  James Posey
> > >
> > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a
> good move
> > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
>  They have
> > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the
> type of
> > > small line up they used in crunch time last year.
>  Trading
> > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but
> they
> > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > >
> > > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > >
> > > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> showed an
> > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> Gordon were
> > > about to become available.
> > >
> > > 4.  Tony Allen
> > >
> > > I still don't understand why the C's
> didn't
> > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> available in the
> > > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known
> by now and
> > > there were better players out there...
> > >
> > > Who did I miss?
> > >
> > > Charles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 16:42:31 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bored til Friday night
Message-ID: <229361.15293.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Leave it to Rondo & House to take away the blahs.? It's a sign that we don't really get charged up til the finals that nobody has written in caps about "the dunk."? It wasn't spectacular, but it did elicit quite a cheer at my house.? And, for little Eddie, I've never seen a shooter who can hoist a net-splitter at 25' in virtually no time.? Hope he stays on this high a few more weeks.? Imagine how defenses are going to have to work to get ready for that.? All that without PP on the court.? Oh, better calm down and get some work done.?Gene


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Thu May  7 16:50:48 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:50:48 -0400
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090507125048.ORY3K.207754.imail@eastrmwml47>

However, the way their (the big three) contracts expire, we have good bargaining chips to use over the next three years.  That very good core, could easily become an excellent one.
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> Ryan, I beg to disagree.  Rondo and Perk and Baby could well be the 
> core of a very good team, but it's KG and Ray and Pierce who make this 
> a championship team.
> 
> A change in the lexicon:  never again shall a team wish it had a 
> "Vinnie Johnson type."  From now on, they'll all want an "Eddie House 
> type."
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Thu, 7 May 2009 8:59 am
> Subject: Re: the Window
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, you speak of the window and repeat the oft-uttered phrase that 
> our
> window is now.  Well, Mr. Rajon Rondo and Mr. Kendrick Perkins, might 
> have
> something to say about that.  They're 23 and 24 respectively and they 
> play the
> hardest positions to fill in the NBA.  As the Big 3 age, Rondo and Perk 
> (with
> Baby and Walker and whoever else Danny drafts) will pick up the slack.  
> Our
> window is now AND 5 years down the road, AT LEAST, assuming no major
> injuries....
> 
> This is why Danny didn't panic last summer and sign Posey to a bloated 
> 4-year
> contract.  He knew his young studs at point guard and center would 
> improve
> enough to make up for what Posey's loss might necessitate replacing...
> 
> If Rondo keeps playing like he has been...I don't think it's crazy to 
> think we
> might get back to the Finals this season.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
> > I coultn't have said that any better.  We have been
> > lucky and unlucky in the same season.  Garnett's loss
> > (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality minutes at
> > the same position) was/is devestating to the C's attempt
> > at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the signing of
> > Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith etc.)
> > this past summer may prove beneficial for the future. I
> > realize that our window is now, but without KG and Powe, the
> > window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is a
> > moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando and make
> > it to the conference finals, IMO we would have overachieved
> > given our present condition.
> >
> > --- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big
> > hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we would
> > have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't
> > have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer
> > (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked
> > out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be
> > seen as lucky...
> > >
> > > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> > year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.
> > >
> > > Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is
> > already looking to move him and we'd be toast if
> > we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.
> > >
> > > Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith
> > was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after
> > he was released (he said he had unfinished business and
> > would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team
> > the year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > >
> > > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> > on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> > Walker emerge.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: we could have done things differently,
> > but without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last season.
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic
> > chance of
> > > > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out
> > just how thin
> > > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it
> > with both the
> > > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > >
> > > > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or
> > ??? from
> > > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> > effective as Chris
> > > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > >
> > > > 2.  James Posey
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a
> > good move
> > > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
> >  They have
> > > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the
> > type of
> > > > small line up they used in crunch time last year.
> >  Trading
> > > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but
> > they
> > > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > >
> > > > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > > >
> > > > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> > showed an
> > > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> > Gordon were
> > > > about to become available.
> > > >
> > > > 4.  Tony Allen
> > > >
> > > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> > available in the
> > > > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known
> > by now and
> > > > there were better players out there...
> > > >
> > > > Who did I miss?
> > > >
> > > > Charles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Thu May  7 16:53:03 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:53:03 -0400
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <719080.86156.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W3590D536E6A6239DC1335CA5670@phx.gbl>


I think I need to disagree with your disagreement, at least about Rondo.

 

Rondo makes this team go. He's worth 10-15 wins a year in my opinion. I think as long as Rondo is on the team they will be very competitive. Sure, KG, Ray, and Paul make his job that much easier. But Rondo is just so good that he'll bring wins no matter who else is on the team. He is a special special talent and might go down as the greatest point guard in team history (no offense Cooz), and maybe top 3 all time in the game by the time all is said and done.

 


 
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Re: the Window
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:27:53 -0400
> From: douglas342 at aol.com
> 
> Ryan, I beg to disagree. Rondo and Perk and Baby could well be the 
> core of a very good team, but it's KG and Ray and Pierce who make this 
> a championship team.
> 
> A change in the lexicon: never again shall a team wish it had a 
> "Vinnie Johnson type." From now on, they'll all want an "Eddie House 
> type."
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Thu, 7 May 2009 8:59 am
> Subject: Re: the Window
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, you speak of the window and repeat the oft-uttered phrase that 
> our
> window is now. Well, Mr. Rajon Rondo and Mr. Kendrick Perkins, might 
> have
> something to say about that. They're 23 and 24 respectively and they 
> play the
> hardest positions to fill in the NBA. As the Big 3 age, Rondo and Perk 
> (with
> Baby and Walker and whoever else Danny drafts) will pick up the slack. 
> Our
> window is now AND 5 years down the road, AT LEAST, assuming no major
> injuries....
> 
> This is why Danny didn't panic last summer and sign Posey to a bloated 
> 4-year
> contract. He knew his young studs at point guard and center would 
> improve
> enough to make up for what Posey's loss might necessitate replacing...
> 
> If Rondo keeps playing like he has been...I don't think it's crazy to 
> think we
> might get back to the Finals this season.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
> > I coultn't have said that any better. We have been
> > lucky and unlucky in the same season. Garnett's loss
> > (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality minutes at
> > the same position) was/is devestating to the C's attempt
> > at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the signing of
> > Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith etc.)
> > this past summer may prove beneficial for the future. I
> > realize that our window is now, but without KG and Powe, the
> > window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is a
> > moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando and make
> > it to the conference finals, IMO we would have overachieved
> > given our present condition.
> >
> > --- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big
> > hurdle to another championship. No matter what we would
> > have done in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't
> > have mattered. So, by going the cheap route in the summer
> > (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked
> > out this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be
> > seen as lucky...
> > >
> > > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> > year suspension. Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.
> > >
> > > Posey's contract was a killer. New Orleans is
> > already looking to move him and we'd be toast if
> > we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.
> > >
> > > Moore was the best available, unfortunately. Smith
> > was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after
> > he was released (he said he had unfinished business and
> > would have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team
> > the year before). And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > >
> > > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately. Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy.
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> > on the court. If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year.
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> > Walker emerge.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: we could have done things differently,
> > but without KG is doesn't matter very much. We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last season.
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic
> > chance of
> > > > repeating. The situation has also pointed out
> > just how thin
> > > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it
> > with both the
> > > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Chris Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or
> > ??? from
> > > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> > effective as Chris
> > > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > >
> > > > 2. James Posey
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a
> > good move
> > > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
> > They have
> > > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the
> > type of
> > > > small line up they used in crunch time last year.
> > Trading
> > > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but
> > they
> > > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Mikki Moore
> > > >
> > > > Did the C's panic when they signed him? They
> > showed an
> > > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> > Gordon were
> > > > about to become available.
> > > >
> > > > 4. Tony Allen
> > > >
> > > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> > available in the
> > > > summer. Allen's short comings are well known
> > by now and
> > > > there were better players out there...
> > > >
> > > > Who did I miss?
> > > >
> > > > Charles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 17:00:40 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bored til Friday night
In-Reply-To: <229361.15293.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <66264.69203.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


YES! That was the best dunk all season.  Right in Howard's face (Howard pushed him as he was dunking it too).  Loved it!

Ryan


--- On Thu, 5/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: bored til Friday night
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 11:42 AM
> Leave it to Rondo & House to take away the blahs.?
> It's a sign that we don't really get charged up til
> the finals that nobody has written in caps about "the
> dunk."? It wasn't spectacular, but it did elicit
> quite a cheer at my house.? And, for little Eddie, I've
> never seen a shooter who can hoist a net-splitter at 25'
> in virtually no time.? Hope he stays on this high a few
> more weeks.? Imagine how defenses are going to have to work
> to get ready for that.? All that without PP on the court.?
> Oh, better calm down and get some work done.?Gene
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 17:08:25 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:08:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <253356.42541.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Douglas, 

With all due respect, you might be underselling Perk and Rondo.  Rondo, to me, is a top-5 player when he's in his prime (ages 25-29).  Combine that with Perk, who will be an All-Star within 3 years (and on the All-Defensive team, just like Rondo) and that's not the Big 3, but it's a pretty Big 2.  I mean, who else has All-Defense bookends at center and point guard?  Those two are GREAT building blocks and they're only 23 and 24.

As for the Big 3, I'm assuming they age gracefully.  If I had to put a # on it, I'd say in 3-5 years they'd be 75-80% of what they are now.  Ray will be able to shoot like he does FOREVER.  KG is a freak and has the perfect body to play until he's forty.  And Paul will still have a strength/height advantage against most 3s for awhile.  Even if they're not starter quality in 3 or 4 years, they'll still be great off-the-bench. 

And all this forecasting is without the benefit of whomever Danny is going to draft and not knowing exactly what will come of Baby, Powe, Walker and Giddens.  The window is LONG, assuming no major injuries.

Ryan


--- On Thu, 5/7/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: the Window
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 11:27 AM
> Ryan, I beg to disagree.  Rondo and Perk and Baby could well
> be the core of a very good team, but it's KG and Ray and
> Pierce who make this a championship team.
> 
> A change in the lexicon:  never again shall a team wish it
> had a "Vinnie Johnson type."  From now on,
> they'll all want an "Eddie House type."
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Thu, 7 May 2009 8:59 am
> Subject: Re: the Window
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, you speak of the window and repeat the oft-uttered
> phrase that our
> window is now.  Well, Mr. Rajon Rondo and Mr. Kendrick
> Perkins, might have
> something to say about that.  They're 23 and 24
> respectively and they play the
> hardest positions to fill in the NBA.  As the Big 3 age,
> Rondo and Perk (with
> Baby and Walker and whoever else Danny drafts) will pick up
> the slack.  Our
> window is now AND 5 years down the road, AT LEAST, assuming
> no major
> injuries....
> 
> This is why Danny didn't panic last summer and sign
> Posey to a bloated 4-year
> contract.  He knew his young studs at point guard and
> center would improve
> enough to make up for what Posey's loss might
> necessitate replacing...
> 
> If Rondo keeps playing like he has been...I don't think
> it's crazy to think we
> might get back to the Finals this season.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "The Boston
> Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
> > I coultn't have said that any better.  We have
> been
> > lucky and unlucky in the same season.  Garnett's
> loss
> > (not to mention Powe, who also provides quality
> minutes at
> > the same position) was/is devestating to the C's
> attempt
> > at a title defense. But as you pointed out, the
> signing of
> > Posey and attempt at other players (Anderson, Smith
> etc.)
> > this past summer may prove beneficial for the future.
> I
> > realize that our window is now, but without KG and
> Powe, the
> > window needs a pane or two, so what could have been is
> a
> > moot point. If we can take this series with Orlando
> and make
> > it to the conference finals, IMO we would have
> overachieved
> > given our present condition.
> > 
> > --- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty
> big
> > hurdle to another championship.  No matter what we
> would
> > have done in the offseason, if we lose him it
> wouldn't
> > have mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the
> summer
> > (with an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly
> lucked
> > out this season, if any season where KG gets injured
> can be
> > seen as lucky...
> > >
> > > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during
> his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary
> drug-related 2
> > year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down
> the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading
> deadline.
> > >
> > > Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans
> is
> > already looking to move him and we'd be toast if
> > we'd have signed him for 4 seasons.
> > >
> > > Moore was the best available, unfortunately. 
> Smith
> > was going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so
> after
> > he was released (he said he had unfinished business
> and
> > would have never jumped to the team that eliminated
> his team
> > the year before).  And Gooden is a giant
> knucklehead...
> > >
> > > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries,
> this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay
> healthy.
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench,
> and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he
> can do
> > on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a
> legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent
> year.
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens
> or
> > Walker emerge.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: we could have done things
> differently,
> > but without KG is doesn't matter very much. 
> We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and
> should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last
> season.
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Green 00
> <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing
> List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > > With Garnett out the C's have no
> realistic
> > chance of
> > > > repeating.  The situation has also pointed
> out
> > just how thin
> > > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew
> it
> > with both the
> > > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > >
> > > > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki
> Moore or
> > ??? from
> > > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> > effective as Chris
> > > > Anderson, who they passed on in the
> preseason.
> > > >
> > > > 2.  James Posey
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was
> a
> > good move
> > > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly
> closing.
> >  They have
> > > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use
> the
> > type of
> > > > small line up they used in crunch time last
> year.
> >  Trading
> > > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem
> but
> > they
> > > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured
> Powe.
> > > >
> > > > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > > >
> > > > Did the C's panic when they signed him? 
> They
> > showed an
> > > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> > Gordon were
> > > > about to become available.
> > > >
> > > > 4.  Tony Allen
> > > >
> > > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> > available in the
> > > > summer.  Allen's short comings are well
> known
> > by now and
> > > > there were better players out there...
> > > >
> > > > Who did I miss?
> > > >
> > > > Charles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu May  7 17:14:55 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:14:55 -0400
Subject: FW: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
Message-ID: <200905071714.n47HExE9022570@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

You forgot the Marlins first championship (1997) that they "bought" (lots of high priced veterans) - so the comparison stands and regardless in both instances once they got the championship their owners began to cut overhead precipitously that aspect cannot be disputed. I'm not saying that they sell off all their team, but I do think they will much more judiciously, even to the point of not using the MLE, remain at, near, or lower than current payroll.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan W [mailto:ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:53 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com; Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes


I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong.  

Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we need player X to get over the top then he'll give him player X.  Danny didn't say that last season with Posey and it was the right move then and now and in future too.  Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents available and there are a few of them left out in the cold because not everybody's going to get paid, you can expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax.  And you know what?  I think they'll do it because they're fans and they like winning.  If Danny wants it and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.

The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison.  The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off after winning a championship.  We won after trading our young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and we're not in danger of selling any of our younger players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because he's about to become a superstar? HA!).  Bad comparison.

I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE this summer.  How much depends on what Baby needs to come back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension.  

Ryan


--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I
> tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the
> Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is
> they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of
> them going further into lux tax than they already are is
> very slim. 
> 
> If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA
> lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to
> rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying
> out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they
> hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably
> would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins
> ownership group that got a championship and then sold off
> every asset they had to make some money back the next season
> only to have a terrific scouting department get them another
> championship a couple years later (at which time they sold
> all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> mediocrity. 
> 
> I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap
> friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with
> T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with
> Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year
> (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE
> guy walking through that door? No way.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle
> to another championship.  No matter what we would have done
> in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with
> an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out
> this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen
> as lucky...
> 
> Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline.  
> 
> Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is already
> looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have
> signed him for 4 seasons.  
> 
> Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith was
> going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he
> was released (he said he had unfinished business and would
> have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the
> year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> 
> Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> Walker emerge.
> 
> Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but
> without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> Danny knows what he's doing...
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance
> of
> > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out just
> how thin
> > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with
> both the
> > off season and mid-season signings.
> > 
> > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > 
> > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ???
> from
> > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as
> Chris
> > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > 
> > 2.  James Posey
> > 
> > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good
> move
> > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing. 
> They have
> > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type
> of
> > small line up they used in crunch time last year. 
> Trading
> > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > 
> > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > 
> > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> showed an
> > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon
> were
> > about to become available.  
> > 
> > 4.  Tony Allen
> > 
> > I still don't understand why the C's
> didn't
> > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in
> the
> > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known by
> now and
> > there were better players out there...
> > 
> > Who did I miss?
> > 
> > Charles
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Thu May  7 17:15:30 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 13:15:30 -0400
Subject: the Window
In-Reply-To: <8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <719080.86156.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB9D47E811ED9E-13D0-51E@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KJA00L1GAMJL9NS@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:27 PM 5/7/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>Ryan, I beg to disagree.  Rondo and Perk and Baby could well be the 
>core of a very good team, but it's KG and Ray and Pierce who make 
>this a championship team.

Yes, but you're ignoring what most people ignore.  The groundwork has 
already been laid to deal with that. Their current presence, along 
with the promise of good young players in a successful situation make 
it easier to attract their successors. The problem with improving 
before was that this was loserville. As does the way Danny structured 
the contracts so they come up in successive years, making it possible 
to entice a successor star by saying he'll be able to win with the 
other two who are still here, just like the guy he's replacing did. 
Having them all expire at once frees up more money, but also 
increases the odds that you have to completely rebuild because you've 
lost so much at once. Especially since just because you've freed up 
the money, that doesn't mean you're going to get your target, as all 
but one of the teams looking to LeBron's FA are going to find out.

Kim 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 17:21:57 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <200905071709.n47H9Abk013720@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <843204.87330.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yep, I did forget the 97' team.  My bad.

I still say we won't know until this summer.  It's all about cost benefit analysis and whatever Danny decides is fine by me.  I just don't see the rampant cost-cutting---we're paying the luxury tax this season and in the foreseeable future.  If that's not 'paying for a winner' I don't know what is...

Smart teams always mix old and young, veterans and rookies, high-priced talent and bargain basement free agents to get that perfect mix.  Danny gets that.  So, we might fill out the team with youngsters not ready to contribute this season, but one or two of them might be players down the road.  I mean, if Danny decides to pass on a free agent this season, but instead convinces Wyc to shell out some money to acquire a mid first round pick, who's to say that's not the better use of one's money?  We get a young, cheap rookie to develop and push the veterans and young veterans in practice while responsibly planning for the future.  

I mean, I remember Egg complaining that we didn't shell out the extra $600,000 for Tyronne Lue last offseason, saying we were blowing our championship chances over such a small amount of money.  But you know what?  Rondo has been great; Pruitt is as good as Lue; and we were able to get an infinitely better player--Marbury--later in the season and ended up paying just as much for him as we would have for Lue.  It's not necessarily about the money, it's about being smart with the money.  Again, Danny gets that.  That's why all this hub-bub about having cheap ownership doesn't sway me.  For their ENTIRE ownership reign, Wyc et al have shown a COMPLETE willingess to shell out the money when it was smart both from a financial and from a basketball standpoint.  I don't know what more you could want...

Ryan


--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 12:09 PM
> You forgot the Marlins first championship (1997) that they
> "bought" (lots of high priced veterans) - so the
> comparison stands and regardless in both instances once they
> got the championship their owners began to cut overhead
> precipitously that aspect cannot be disputed. I'm not
> saying that they sell off all their team, but I do think
> they will much more judiciously, even to the point of not
> using the MLE, remain at, near, or lower than current
> payroll.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W [mailto:ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22
> AF/A6
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what
> happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong.
>  
> 
> Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we
> need player X to get over the top then he'll give him
> player X.  Danny didn't say that last season with Posey
> and it was the right move then and now and in future too. 
> Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this
> summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents
> available and there are a few of them left out in the cold
> because not everybody's going to get paid, you can
> expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to
> go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than
> he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax.
>  And you know what?  I think they'll do it because
> they're fans and they like winning.  If Danny wants it
> and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.
> 
> The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison. 
> The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off
> after winning a championship.  We won after trading our
> young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember
> signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and
> we're not in danger of selling any of our younger
> players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because
> he's about to become a superstar? HA!).  Bad comparison.
> 
> I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE
> this summer.  How much depends on what Baby needs to come
> back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension. 
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> > While I agree with the basic premise of your post
> Ryan, I
> > tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect
> of the
> > Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect
> is
> > they have have been sated by a championship - the odds
> of
> > them going further into lux tax than they already are
> is
> > very slim. 
> > 
> > If the economy was still booming and with yet another
> NBA
> > lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't
> mean to
> > rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners
> laying
> > out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If
> they
> > hadn't won it all last year then I believe they
> probably
> > would have. They remind me very much of the Florida
> Marlins
> > ownership group that got a championship and then sold
> off
> > every asset they had to make some money back the next
> season
> > only to have a terrific scouting department get them
> another
> > championship a couple years later (at which time they
> sold
> > all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> > mediocrity. 
> > 
> > I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a
> cap
> > friendly deal, probably even go through the motions
> with
> > T.Allen before letting him go before going forward
> with
> > Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this
> year
> > (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A
> full MLE
> > guy walking through that door? No way.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > 
> > 
> > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big
> hurdle
> > to another championship.  No matter what we would have
> done
> > in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> > mattered.  So, by going the cheap route in the summer
> (with
> > an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked
> out
> > this season, if any season where KG gets injured can
> be seen
> > as lucky...
> > 
> > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary
> drug-related 2
> > year suspension.  Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down
> the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading
> deadline.  
> > 
> > Posey's contract was a killer.  New Orleans is
> already
> > looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd
> have
> > signed him for 4 seasons.  
> > 
> > Moore was the best available, unfortunately.  Smith
> was
> > going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so
> after he
> > was released (he said he had unfinished business and
> would
> > have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team
> the
> > year before).  And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > 
> > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately.  Other than his major knee injuries,
> this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay
> healthy. 
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench,
> and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he
> can do
> > on the court.  If he ever sees court time with a
> legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent
> year. 
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens
> or
> > Walker emerge.
> > 
> > Bottom line: we could have done things differently,
> but
> > without KG is doesn't matter very much.  We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and
> should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last
> season. 
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > 
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic
> chance
> > of
> > > repeating.  The situation has also pointed out
> just
> > how thin
> > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it
> with
> > both the
> > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > 
> > > 1.  Chris Anderson
> > > 
> > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or
> ???
> > from
> > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as
> effective as
> > Chris
> > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > 
> > > 2.  James Posey
> > > 
> > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a
> good
> > move
> > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
> 
> > They have
> > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the
> type
> > of
> > > small line up they used in crunch time last year.
> 
> > Trading
> > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but
> they
> > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > 
> > > 3.  Mikki Moore
> > > 
> > > Did the C's panic when they signed him?  They
> > showed an
> > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and
> Gordon
> > were
> > > about to become available.  
> > > 
> > > 4.  Tony Allen
> > > 
> > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were
> available in
> > the
> > > summer.  Allen's short comings are well known
> by
> > now and
> > > there were better players out there...
> > > 
> > > Who did I miss?
> > > 
> > > Charles
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Thu May  7 17:23:36 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 13:23:36 -0400
Subject: bored til Friday night
In-Reply-To: <229361.15293.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <229361.15293.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJA001IDB02WV65@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:42 PM 5/7/2009, gene kirkpatrick wrote:
>Leave it to Rondo & House to take away the blahs.  It's a sign that 
>we don't really get charged up til the finals that nobody has 
>written in caps about "the dunk."  It wasn't spectacular, but it did 
>elicit quite a cheer at my house.  And, for little Eddie, I've never 
>seen a shooter who can hoist a net-splitter at 25' in virtually no 
>time.  Hope he stays on this high a few more weeks.  Imagine how 
>defenses are going to have to work to get ready for that.  All that 
>without PP on the court.  Oh, better calm down and get some work done. Gene

Eddie's kid is one of the ballboys (the little one with a huge mop of 
curls if they show him on TV high fiving the players) and I was 
thinking watching him shoot before the game that he's got the genes. 
Wasn't going for the long distance like his dad (my biggest surprise 
about him) but was shooting, not just heaving up a prayer like the 
usual not much bigger than the basketball rugrat. What a father's day 
present, having your kid there as the place is practically shaking 
with the volume of people chanting your name over and over and over 
even when you don't have the ball.

And you're right about the dunk. Wasn't a fancy style points dunk, 
but it was a most emphatic, Red lighting the cigar, this is OURS 
statement. Which is a more Rondoish thing to do anyway : )
Kim 


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 17:27:32 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Prediction for Game 3
Message-ID: <313281.74821.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Home cooking will be in full effect and refs will whistle Perk for two quick fouls shortly after the opening tip. No way the league wants to see one of its brightest young superstuds, Howard, continue to have a sub-par series.

That said, assuming Alston's gonna be suspended and assuming Pierce can emerge from his funk, I'm much more confident after last night that we can beat these guys. That was maybe the most fun I've had watching the C's since last year's Game 6.

(Speaking of the Lakers, did anybody see how Kobe elbowed Artest in the throat last night, and the refs CALLED THE FOUL ON ARTEST?? Ron's never gonna get any love from the officials, but that was especially egregious.)

(And speaking of Artest, isn't he a FA this summer? I would love, love, love to have that guy - headcase and all - on the Celtics. He's a defensive dominator and plays his ass off; how else you think the Rockets took off after their most talented player, the supersoft McGrady, went out?)
 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu May  7 17:30:07 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:30:07 -0400
Subject: Prediction for Game 3
In-Reply-To: <313281.74821.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <313281.74821.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905071730.n47HUBtG026104@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Artest's throat was quoted after the game that "yeah, my Adam's Apple was going for the block, but I thought it genuinely got all ball. Poor shot blocking mechanics I guess."


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:28 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Prediction for Game 3


Home cooking will be in full effect and refs will whistle Perk for two quick fouls shortly after the opening tip. No way the league wants to see one of its brightest young superstuds, Howard, continue to have a sub-par series.

That said, assuming Alston's gonna be suspended and assuming Pierce can emerge from his funk, I'm much more confident after last night that we can beat these guys. That was maybe the most fun I've had watching the C's since last year's Game 6.

(Speaking of the Lakers, did anybody see how Kobe elbowed Artest in the throat last night, and the refs CALLED THE FOUL ON ARTEST?? Ron's never gonna get any love from the officials, but that was especially egregious.)

(And speaking of Artest, isn't he a FA this summer? I would love, love, love to have that guy - headcase and all - on the Celtics. He's a defensive dominator and plays his ass off; how else you think the Rockets took off after their most talented player, the supersoft McGrady, went out?)
 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Thu May  7 17:57:40 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:57:40 -0400
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <200905071714.n47HExE9022570@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
References: <200905071714.n47HExE9022570@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W51BB6140E318CFF8E53275A5670@phx.gbl>


The comparison is still not a good one. The Marlins got rid of everyone. The Celtics chose not to resign a guy, moreso because it would hamper them from being able to sign the necessary pieces to win down the road as opposed to just not wanting to spend the money. For your Marlins comparison to work, the C's would have had to have gotten rid of Paul, Ray, KG, AND Posey and replaced them with guys from the NBDL.
 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:14:55 -0400
> Subject: FW: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> You forgot the Marlins first championship (1997) that they "bought" (lots of high priced veterans) - so the comparison stands and regardless in both instances once they got the championship their owners began to cut overhead precipitously that aspect cannot be disputed. I'm not saying that they sell off all their team, but I do think they will much more judiciously, even to the point of not using the MLE, remain at, near, or lower than current payroll.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W [mailto:ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong. 
> 
> Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we need player X to get over the top then he'll give him player X. Danny didn't say that last season with Posey and it was the right move then and now and in future too. Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents available and there are a few of them left out in the cold because not everybody's going to get paid, you can expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax. And you know what? I think they'll do it because they're fans and they like winning. If Danny wants it and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.
> 
> The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison. The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off after winning a championship. We won after trading our young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and we're not in danger of selling any of our younger players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because he's about to become a superstar? HA!). Bad comparison.
> 
> I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE this summer. How much depends on what Baby needs to come back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension. 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> > While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I
> > tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the
> > Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is
> > they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of
> > them going further into lux tax than they already are is
> > very slim. 
> > 
> > If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA
> > lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to
> > rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying
> > out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they
> > hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably
> > would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins
> > ownership group that got a championship and then sold off
> > every asset they had to make some money back the next season
> > only to have a terrific scouting department get them another
> > championship a couple years later (at which time they sold
> > all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> > mediocrity. 
> > 
> > I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap
> > friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with
> > T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with
> > Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year
> > (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE
> > guy walking through that door? No way.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > 
> > 
> > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle
> > to another championship. No matter what we would have done
> > in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> > mattered. So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with
> > an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out
> > this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen
> > as lucky...
> > 
> > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> > year suspension. Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline. 
> > 
> > Posey's contract was a killer. New Orleans is already
> > looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have
> > signed him for 4 seasons. 
> > 
> > Moore was the best available, unfortunately. Smith was
> > going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he
> > was released (he said he had unfinished business and would
> > have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the
> > year before). And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > 
> > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately. Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> > on the court. If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> > Walker emerge.
> > 
> > Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but
> > without KG is doesn't matter very much. We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > 
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance
> > of
> > > repeating. The situation has also pointed out just
> > how thin
> > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with
> > both the
> > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > 
> > > 1. Chris Anderson
> > > 
> > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ???
> > from
> > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as
> > Chris
> > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > 
> > > 2. James Posey
> > > 
> > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good
> > move
> > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing. 
> > They have
> > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type
> > of
> > > small line up they used in crunch time last year. 
> > Trading
> > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > 
> > > 3. Mikki Moore
> > > 
> > > Did the C's panic when they signed him? They
> > showed an
> > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon
> > were
> > > about to become available. 
> > > 
> > > 4. Tony Allen
> > > 
> > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in
> > the
> > > summer. Allen's short comings are well known by
> > now and
> > > there were better players out there...
> > > 
> > > Who did I miss?
> > > 
> > > Charles
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu May  7 18:01:51 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:01:51 -0400
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W51BB6140E318CFF8E53275A5670@phx.gbl>
References: <200905071714.n47HExE9022570@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
	<BAY111-W51BB6140E318CFF8E53275A5670@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200905071801.n47I1teo001164@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

I am comparing ownership overhead decisions regarding capital outlay in successive years after a championship and they did not spend more this year on salary than last year - period, but if you don't think it's a viable comparison that's fine - they're comparable to the current day Yankees owners then. That better?

Comparison is not the same definition as duplicate.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Niles
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:58 PM
To: Celtics List
Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes


The comparison is still not a good one. The Marlins got rid of everyone. The Celtics chose not to resign a guy, moreso because it would hamper them from being able to sign the necessary pieces to win down the road as opposed to just not wanting to spend the money. For your Marlins comparison to work, the C's would have had to have gotten rid of Paul, Ray, KG, AND Posey and replaced them with guys from the NBDL.
 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:14:55 -0400
> Subject: FW: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> You forgot the Marlins first championship (1997) that they "bought" (lots of high priced veterans) - so the comparison stands and regardless in both instances once they got the championship their owners began to cut overhead precipitously that aspect cannot be disputed. I'm not saying that they sell off all their team, but I do think they will much more judiciously, even to the point of not using the MLE, remain at, near, or lower than current payroll.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan W [mailto:ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: celtics at igtc.com; Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong. 
> 
> Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we need player X to get over the top then he'll give him player X. Danny didn't say that last season with Posey and it was the right move then and now and in future too. Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents available and there are a few of them left out in the cold because not everybody's going to get paid, you can expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax. And you know what? I think they'll do it because they're fans and they like winning. If Danny wants it and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.
> 
> The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison. The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off after winning a championship. We won after trading our young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and we're not in danger of selling any of our younger players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because he's about to become a superstar? HA!). Bad comparison.
> 
> I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE this summer. How much depends on what Baby needs to come back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension. 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> > While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I
> > tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the
> > Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is
> > they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of
> > them going further into lux tax than they already are is
> > very slim. 
> > 
> > If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA
> > lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to
> > rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying
> > out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they
> > hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably
> > would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins
> > ownership group that got a championship and then sold off
> > every asset they had to make some money back the next season
> > only to have a terrific scouting department get them another
> > championship a couple years later (at which time they sold
> > all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> > mediocrity. 
> > 
> > I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap
> > friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with
> > T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with
> > Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year
> > (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE
> > guy walking through that door? No way.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > 
> > 
> > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle
> > to another championship. No matter what we would have done
> > in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> > mattered. So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with
> > an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out
> > this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen
> > as lucky...
> > 
> > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> > year suspension. Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> > when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline. 
> > 
> > Posey's contract was a killer. New Orleans is already
> > looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have
> > signed him for 4 seasons. 
> > 
> > Moore was the best available, unfortunately. Smith was
> > going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he
> > was released (he said he had unfinished business and would
> > have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the
> > year before). And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > 
> > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > unfortunately. Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> > the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> > on the court. If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> > Walker emerge.
> > 
> > Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but
> > without KG is doesn't matter very much. We've
> > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> > more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > 
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance
> > of
> > > repeating. The situation has also pointed out just
> > how thin
> > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with
> > both the
> > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > 
> > > 1. Chris Anderson
> > > 
> > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ???
> > from
> > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as
> > Chris
> > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > 
> > > 2. James Posey
> > > 
> > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good
> > move
> > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing. 
> > They have
> > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type
> > of
> > > small line up they used in crunch time last year. 
> > Trading
> > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > 
> > > 3. Mikki Moore
> > > 
> > > Did the C's panic when they signed him? They
> > showed an
> > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon
> > were
> > > about to become available. 
> > > 
> > > 4. Tony Allen
> > > 
> > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > didn't
> > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in
> > the
> > > summer. Allen's short comings are well known by
> > now and
> > > there were better players out there...
> > > 
> > > Who did I miss?
> > > 
> > > Charles
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail(r) has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 18:02:38 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest, Vol 17, Issue 87
In-Reply-To: <mailman.205.1241715657.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.205.1241715657.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <525352.68539.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

couldn't agree more on rondo. he's a game changer and really just scratching the surface. once he starts hitting that floater in the lane with consistency (imo, one of his true weaknesses now), he'll float to the top of the pg discussions. and yes, before he's thru, maybe of all time. rondo is easily one of the most unique players in the game today, and he's going to get lots better, folks. enjoy it. 

i'm still pretty confident we'll meet the cavs and i'm not convinced yet that we can't beat them. what rudy said about champions is true. 

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:53:03 -0400
From: Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: the Window
To: Celtics List <celtics at igtc.com>, <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W3590D536E6A6239DC1335CA5670 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


I think I need to disagree with your disagreement, at least about Rondo.



Rondo makes this team go. He's worth 10-15 wins a year in my opinion. I think as long as Rondo is on the team they will be very competitive. Sure, KG, Ray, and Paul make his job that much easier. But Rondo is just so good that he'll bring wins no matter who else is on the team. He is a special special talent and might go down as the greatest point guard in team history (no offense Cooz), and maybe top 3 all time in the game by the time all is said and done.


      

From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Thu May  7 18:07:36 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:07:36 -0400
Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
In-Reply-To: <200905071801.n47I1teo001164@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
References: <200905071714.n47HExE9022570@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
	<BAY111-W51BB6140E318CFF8E53275A5670@phx.gbl> 
	<200905071801.n47I1teo001164@apollo.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W3207B392EBE339B26BE230A5670@phx.gbl>


The Marlins cut with the sole intent of saving money. They had the attitude of "we got our title, so now we are cutting all costs and who cares if we win next year".

 

For the C's owners it was completely different. It was, "if we sign Posey, maybe it will help us next year, but that seriously hampers us from putting a winning team out on the court in the years following that." It was never a case of simply cutting costs with no regards for keeping the winning going. It was, "this is the smartest move so that we CAN keep on winning". Big difference. 


 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:01:51 -0400
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> I am comparing ownership overhead decisions regarding capital outlay in successive years after a championship and they did not spend more this year on salary than last year - period, but if you don't think it's a viable comparison that's fine - they're comparable to the current day Yankees owners then. That better?
> 
> Comparison is not the same definition as duplicate.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Niles
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:58 PM
> To: Celtics List
> Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> 
> 
> The comparison is still not a good one. The Marlins got rid of everyone. The Celtics chose not to resign a guy, moreso because it would hamper them from being able to sign the necessary pieces to win down the road as opposed to just not wanting to spend the money. For your Marlins comparison to work, the C's would have had to have gotten rid of Paul, Ray, KG, AND Posey and replaced them with guys from the NBDL.
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:14:55 -0400
> > Subject: FW: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > 
> > You forgot the Marlins first championship (1997) that they "bought" (lots of high priced veterans) - so the comparison stands and regardless in both instances once they got the championship their owners began to cut overhead precipitously that aspect cannot be disputed. I'm not saying that they sell off all their team, but I do think they will much more judiciously, even to the point of not using the MLE, remain at, near, or lower than current payroll.
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ryan W [mailto:ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:53 AM
> > To: celtics at igtc.com; Ryan, Patrick S LtCol USAFR AFRC 22 AF/A6
> > Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > 
> > 
> > I see your point, and I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer before we know who's right or wrong. 
> > 
> > Wyc has always said that if Danny comes to him and says we need player X to get over the top then he'll give him player X. Danny didn't say that last season with Posey and it was the right move then and now and in future too. Wyc et al trust Danny and his judgment and so, when this summer rolls around, and there are a ton of free agents available and there are a few of them left out in the cold because not everybody's going to get paid, you can expect (and I almost guarantee it) that Danny's going to go to Wyc and say that they can sign player X for less than he's worth provided they go further into the luxury tax. And you know what? I think they'll do it because they're fans and they like winning. If Danny wants it and thinks its a smart move, he's going to get it.
> > 
> > The comparison with the Marlins is not a good comparison. The Marlins won with young cheap talent which they sold off after winning a championship. We won after trading our young talent for expensive veterans (anybody remember signing KG to a 3-year, 60 million dollar extension) and we're not in danger of selling any of our younger players off (you think we're going to dump Rondo because he's about to become a superstar? HA!). Bad comparison.
> > 
> > I expect us to sign somebody of importance with the MLE this summer. How much depends on what Baby needs to come back, and how high we go in securing Rondo's extension. 
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > > Subject: RE: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
> > > While I agree with the basic premise of your post Ryan, I
> > > tend to also agree with one very infintesimal aspect of the
> > > Egg/WOTR anti-Ainge/anti-owner crowd - and that aspect is
> > > they have have been sated by a championship - the odds of
> > > them going further into lux tax than they already are is
> > > very slim. 
> > > 
> > > If the economy was still booming and with yet another NBA
> > > lockout "maybe" looming (sorry didn't mean to
> > > rhyme) I just don't see these particular owners laying
> > > out more capital on free agents of any caliber. If they
> > > hadn't won it all last year then I believe they probably
> > > would have. They remind me very much of the Florida Marlins
> > > ownership group that got a championship and then sold off
> > > every asset they had to make some money back the next season
> > > only to have a terrific scouting department get them another
> > > championship a couple years later (at which time they sold
> > > all them off/traded them away) and now languish in
> > > mediocrity. 
> > > 
> > > I see us trying to re-up Powe and get Baby agree to a cap
> > > friendly deal, probably even go through the motions with
> > > T.Allen before letting him go before going forward with
> > > Walker and Giddens plus whatever pick(s) we get this year
> > > (which won't be much after the Garnett deal). A full MLE
> > > guy walking through that door? No way.
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:04 PM
> > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > 
> > > 
> > > First and foremost, KG's injury is a pretty big hurdle
> > > to another championship. No matter what we would have done
> > > in the offseason, if we lose him it wouldn't have
> > > mattered. So, by going the cheap route in the summer (with
> > > an eye towards this summer), we inadvertantly lucked out
> > > this season, if any season where KG gets injured can be seen
> > > as lucky...
> > > 
> > > Chris Anderson was admittedly out-of-shape during his
> > > summer workout with Cs and coming off a scary drug-related 2
> > > year suspension. Patrick O'Bryant was also out of
> > > shape, too, but he was safer and easier to cut down the line
> > > when veterans got bought out after the trading deadline. 
> > > 
> > > Posey's contract was a killer. New Orleans is already
> > > looking to move him and we'd be toast if we'd have
> > > signed him for 4 seasons. 
> > > 
> > > Moore was the best available, unfortunately. Smith was
> > > going back to Cleveland all along, he even said so after he
> > > was released (he said he had unfinished business and would
> > > have never jumped to the team that eliminated his team the
> > > year before). And Gooden is a giant knucklehead...
> > > 
> > > Tony Allen has turned out to be injury-prone,
> > > unfortunately. Other than his major knee injuries, this was
> > > the first season where he really struggled to stay healthy. 
> > > When healthy, he was the best player off the bench, and is
> > > still a steal at his salary spot relative to what he can do
> > > on the court. If he ever sees court time with a legitimate
> > > point guard, he's due to have a good, consistent year. 
> > > But he'll probably be moved next season if Giddens or
> > > Walker emerge.
> > > 
> > > Bottom line: we could have done things differently, but
> > > without KG is doesn't matter very much. We've
> > > positioned ourselves well for this offseason, and should get
> > > more value for less dollars than we would have last season. 
> > > Danny knows what he's doing...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Green 00
> > > <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Recapping The Bench Mistakes
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> > > <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:52 AM
> > > > With Garnett out the C's have no realistic chance
> > > of
> > > > repeating. The situation has also pointed out just
> > > how thin
> > > > the bench is and how much Danny Ainge blew it with
> > > both the
> > > > off season and mid-season signings.
> > > > 
> > > > 1. Chris Anderson
> > > > 
> > > > Neither of the big med brought in (Mikki Moore or ???
> > > from
> > > > Golden State?) has been anywhere near as effective as
> > > Chris
> > > > Anderson, who they passed on in the preseason.
> > > > 
> > > > 2. James Posey
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps in the long run, not signing him was a good
> > > move
> > > > but the window of opportunity is rapidly closing. 
> > > They have
> > > > no one to play backup SF/PF and can not use the type
> > > of
> > > > small line up they used in crunch time last year. 
> > > Trading
> > > > for Noccioni would have fixed this problem but they
> > > > didn't want to give up the oft-injured Powe.
> > > > 
> > > > 3. Mikki Moore
> > > > 
> > > > Did the C's panic when they signed him? They
> > > showed an
> > > > extreme lack of patience when Joe Smith and Gordon
> > > were
> > > > about to become available. 
> > > > 
> > > > 4. Tony Allen
> > > > 
> > > > I still don't understand why the C's
> > > didn't
> > > > pursue the other SF/SG options that were available in
> > > the
> > > > summer. Allen's short comings are well known by
> > > now and
> > > > there were better players out there...
> > > > 
> > > > Who did I miss?
> > > > 
> > > > Charles
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail(r) has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Thu May  7 19:36:44 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:36:44 -0400
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
Message-ID: <0KJA003HNH662UQ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

It probably won't get the credit it's due most places because basic 
defense doesn't generate the sort of gaudy stats people look to, and 
this is basic defense not even blocks and boards. But Scal played 
some extremely intelligent and effective team defense last night. He 
made himself a genuinely distracting annoyance on his man, did a lot 
of genuinely helpful doubling and switching, including covering for 
some times Alston got past Rondo (gotta assume that ankle is still 
bothering Rondo more than we realize - that happened too often for as 
good a defender as Rondo is), without getting called for a ton of bad 
fouls, no defensive threes from being too slow to get in position, 
and with only one case I can think of where he didn't rotate back 
fast enough (and of course just as importantly, didn't get the cover 
from his teammates) so that left someone else wide open to score.

This is a series where he can be effective, because the size on the 
other side is relatively soft outside shooters, once you get past 
Howard, and he has a bit more height to throw at their height than 
Baby. Plus much better understanding of defense - the question with 
Scal is always can he execute, not does he understand. Well last 
night he really executed (except for a couple of shots that he really 
should have taken - we let the shot clock wind way down far too often 
for me) You can still see him thinking occasionally about the 
concussions where he avoids some sorts of contact, but less than he 
did even a week or two ago.

Anyway, kudos to one of the good guys who's had a tough time this 
season but also came up big when we needed it.
Kim


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 21:29:36 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
In-Reply-To: <0KJA003HNH662UQ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <938434.47097.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Agreed on the Scal obs, He makes a solid contribution on both ends almost every time he is on the court this series so far. He is the big perimeter defender we need to help guard the taller sharpshooters of the Magic, plus he is spreading the floor himself.
?
I like Rhondo's comments about Never again coming out timid (my paraphraise) but I have to agree that the ankle must have played some part in that over the 3 games prior, along with the attention he gained for his hard Playoff type fouls. Hopefully he is over the mental hurdle and stays healthy going forward.?He is the difference in struggling just to win a game vs a Blowout win (no matter the opponent) and will be going forward this playoff run and the next two seasons.??
?
To me the best part of the last game is that Perk more than held his own and anchored the paint against Howard and of course Eddie the mad bomber.
?
Go C's

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 3:36 PM

It probably won't get the credit it's due most places because basic
defense doesn't generate the sort of gaudy stats people look to, and this is
basic defense not even blocks and boards. But Scal played some extremely
intelligent and effective team defense last night. He made himself a genuinely
distracting annoyance on his man, did a lot of genuinely helpful doubling and
switching, including covering for some times Alston got past Rondo (gotta assume
that ankle is still bothering Rondo more than we realize - that happened too
often for as good a defender as Rondo is), without getting called for a ton of
bad fouls, no defensive threes from being too slow to get in position, and with
only one case I can think of where he didn't rotate back fast enough (and of
course just as importantly, didn't get the cover from his teammates) so that
left someone else wide open to score.

This is a series where he can be effective, because the size on the other side
is relatively soft outside shooters, once you get past Howard, and he has a bit
more height to throw at their height than Baby. Plus much better understanding
of defense - the question with Scal is always can he execute, not does he
understand. Well last night he really executed (except for a couple of shots
that he really should have taken - we let the shot clock wind way down far too
often for me) You can still see him thinking occasionally about the concussions
where he avoids some sorts of contact, but less than he did even a week or two
ago.

Anyway, kudos to one of the good guys who's had a tough time this season
but also came up big when we needed it.
Kim

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu May  7 22:01:15 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 18:01:15 -0400
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
In-Reply-To: <938434.47097.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9D7679E46B82-778-253D@webmail-dh42.sysops.aol.com>

A strange comment here, but I have been watching Rondo this post-season 
and the kid is a moose!  He has an upper body that looks more like 
Perk's.  When I saw a post-game press conference where he was wearing 
shirt and tie, it looked like he had a really tiny head perched on a 
massive body.


-----Original Message-----
From: R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thu, 7 May 2009 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: Another credit where credit is due



Agreed on the Scal obs, He makes a solid contribution on both ends 
almost every
time he is on the court this series so far. He is the big perimeter 
defender we
need to help guard the taller sharpshooters of the Magic, plus he is 
spreading
the floor himself.
?
I like Rhondo's comments about Never again coming out timid (my 
paraphraise) but
I have to agree that the ankle must have played some part in that over 
the 3
games prior, along with the attention he gained for his hard Playoff 
type fouls.
Hopefully he is over the mental hurdle and stays healthy going 
forward.?He is
the difference in struggling just to win a game vs a Blowout win (no 
matter the
opponent) and will be going forward this playoff run and the next two 
seasons.??
?
To me the best part of the last game is that Perk more than held his 
own and
anchored the paint against Howard and of course
 Eddie the mad bomber.
?
Go C's

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 3:36 PM

It probably won't get the credit it's due most places because basic
defense doesn't generate the sort of gaudy stats people look to, and 
this is
basic defense not even blocks and boards. But Scal played some extremely
intelligent and effective team defense last night. He made himself a 
genuinely
distracting annoyance on his man, did a lot of genuinely helpful 
doubling and
switching, including covering for some times Alston got past Rondo 
(gotta assume
that ankle is still bothering Rondo more than we realize - that 
happened too
often for as good a defender as Rondo is), without getting called for a 
ton of
bad fouls, no defensive threes from being too slow to get in position, 
and with
only one case I can think of where he didn't rotate back fast enough 
(and of
course just as importantly, didn't get the cover from his teammates) so 
that
left someone else wide open to score.

This is a series where he can be effective, because the size on the 
other side
is relatively soft outside shooters, once you get past Howard, and he 
has a bit
more height to throw at their height than Baby. Plus much better 
understanding
of defense - the question w
ith Scal is always can he execute, not does 
he
understand. Well last night he really executed (except for a couple of 
shots
that he really should have taken - we let the shot clock wind way down 
far too
often for me) You can still see him thinking occasionally about the 
concussions
where he avoids some sorts of contact, but less than he did even a week 
or two
ago.

Anyway, kudos to one of the good guys who's had a tough time this season
but also came up big when we needed it.
Kim

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 22:47:58 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Another credit where credit is due
In-Reply-To: <0KJA003HNH662UQ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <720775.53453.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Another thing that I like about Scal is a trick of KG's that he's picked up...if his man is inbounding the ball after a made basket, Scal will shadow the point guard after he receives the inbounds pass for a few seconds before releasing him and picking up his own man.  It was especially noticeable against Rose because Rose excelled in transition, but even against the likes of Alston it's important because it takes a second or two off the 24 second clock that means there's that much less time needed to defend.  It's the little things like that that make Scal a valuable member of the rotation.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Another credit where credit is due
> To: "Cs eList" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 2:36 PM
> It probably won't get the credit it's due most
> places because basic defense doesn't generate the sort
> of gaudy stats people look to, and this is basic defense not
> even blocks and boards. But Scal played some extremely
> intelligent and effective team defense last night. He made
> himself a genuinely distracting annoyance on his man, did a
> lot of genuinely helpful doubling and switching, including
> covering for some times Alston got past Rondo (gotta assume
> that ankle is still bothering Rondo more than we realize -
> that happened too often for as good a defender as Rondo is),
> without getting called for a ton of bad fouls, no defensive
> threes from being too slow to get in position, and with only
> one case I can think of where he didn't rotate back fast
> enough (and of course just as importantly, didn't get
> the cover from his teammates) so that left someone else wide
> open to score.
> 
> This is a series where he can be effective, because the
> size on the other side is relatively soft outside shooters,
> once you get past Howard, and he has a bit more height to
> throw at their height than Baby. Plus much better
> understanding of defense - the question with Scal is always
> can he execute, not does he understand. Well last night he
> really executed (except for a couple of shots that he really
> should have taken - we let the shot clock wind way down far
> too often for me) You can still see him thinking
> occasionally about the concussions where he avoids some
> sorts of contact, but less than he did even a week or two
> ago.
> 
> Anyway, kudos to one of the good guys who's had a tough
> time this season but also came up big when we needed it.
> Kim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Fri May  8 14:54:24 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 07:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PED in the NBA
Message-ID: <138973.62056.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Anyone else wondering about the use of performance enhancing drugs in the NBA?? Although steroids are banned under the league drug policy, only urine tests are done wherein some steroids may be masked or, as in the case of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), undetectable.? Detection on HGH requires a blood test and the NBA players union has said they will never allow blood testing.

The body size and shape of some of the players - LeBron James comes to mind but so does Rondo-really makes you wonder.? Watch some of the games on ESPN classic from the 80's and early 90's and compare the physiques to those of some of the players today.? Makes you wonder.


      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Fri May  8 15:05:00 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:05:00 -0400
Subject: PED in the NBA
In-Reply-To: <138973.62056.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <138973.62056.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9E057E374FEA-920-5D7@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>

I agree 100% that it makes you wonder, but I also think that the 
science of athletics and exercise physiology is growing by leaps and 
bounds.  Seeing a show about Lance Armstrong's training a few years ago 
was a stunner, as they tweaked calories, measured heartrates at various 
angles of climb, figured out what foods he should eat to spring as 
opposed to climb, etc.  They can work on muscle groups and almost 
engineer the body to perform various tasks.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterix ninetynine <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 7:54 am
Subject: PED in the NBA



Anyone else wondering about the use of performance enhancing drugs in 
the NBA??
Although steroids are banned under the league drug policy, only urine 
tests are
done wherein some steroids may be masked or, as in the case of Human 
Growth
Hormone (HGH), undetectable.? Detection on HGH requires a blood test 
and the NBA
players union has said they will never allow blood testing.

The body size and shape of some of the players - LeBron James comes to 
mind but
so does Rondo-really makes you wonder.? Watch some of the games on ESPN 
classic
 from the 80's and early 90's and compare the physiques to those of some 
of the
players today.? Makes you wonder.



_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/list
info/celtics


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Fri May  8 15:23:22 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:23:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: tonight
In-Reply-To: <mailman.211.1241794472.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.211.1241794472.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <676920.65292.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

how we play tonight will tell me alot about our chances to move on. a solid win means we're taking charge of the series and putting the pressure right back on orlando. we've got to find a way to win. look for big games from pierce and ray. they won't let house light up again. rondo should have a big mismatch tonight. btw, who's their 3rd point guard? 


      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  8 15:23:32 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:23:32 -0400
Subject: PED in the NBA
In-Reply-To: <138973.62056.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <138973.62056.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905081523.n48FNbPX014178@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

There's no doubt it about it.  As we're seeing in MLB the question isn't who was...the question is was who wasn't. There is too much cheap and easy science to beat testing, and if the testing is lax in the first place (month prior notification, no hair or blood samples, no monitored "pee in this cup while I watch" tests) why wouldn't players take the stuff? It's literally MILLIONS of dollars lost to their pocket. 

Now exercise physiology is also a factor - training is light years ahead of where it was even ten years ago, but body types don't change naturally. Skinny guys can get cut and add some muscle, but few have proclivity to gain significant MASS - especially quickly which is the key difference. Look at Yao or Kevin Durant - they both have had trouble putting on muscle despite what is reported as very stringent workout routines.

I have first hand experience - my best friend and I - both with skinny frames at the time (early twenties)- same workout schedule, same sports. He was prescribed anabolic steroids to help with his Crohns Disease. He put on almost 30 pounds of added muscle in less than two years. I gained approx. 6-10 lbs in the same timeframe (again - same workout routine).

It happening...and probably pretty widely. I'd bet my check next week on it without a second thought.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of asterix ninetynine
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:54 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: PED in the NBA

Anyone else wondering about the use of performance enhancing drugs in the NBA?? Although steroids are banned under the league drug policy, only urine tests are done wherein some steroids may be masked or, as in the case of Human Growth Hormone (HGH), undetectable.? Detection on HGH requires a blood test and the NBA players union has said they will never allow blood testing.

The body size and shape of some of the players - LeBron James comes to mind but so does Rondo-really makes you wonder.? Watch some of the games on ESPN classic from the 80's and early 90's and compare the physiques to those of some of the players today.? Makes you wonder.


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Fri May  8 15:29:23 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:29:23 -0400
Subject: tonight
In-Reply-To: <676920.65292.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.211.1241794472.2297.celtics@igtc.com>
	<676920.65292.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200905081529.n48FTQPX017128@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

Orlando strategy - Howard early and often (get Perk in foul trouble). Get to the hoop against Baby's matchup by playing spread from that side as he gives up quickness to both Turkoglo and Lewis. Clutch, grab and pound Rondo - employ "Hack a Rondo" in fact - get him on the line, but don't let him "create" off the dribble.

Celtics strategy - pick and roll with Rondo and Pierce up high - force the mismatch if they switch. Get to the hole - try to make Howard play at both ends since Orlando is likely to go to him a lot on the offensive end. Keep it close. Double off their PG and 2 guard to Howard on the block - make those two players make shots.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of steve knight
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:23 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Re: tonight

how we play tonight will tell me alot about our chances to move on. a solid win means we're taking charge of the series and putting the pressure right back on orlando. we've got to find a way to win. look for big games from pierce and ray. they won't let house light up again. rondo should have a big mismatch tonight. btw, who's their 3rd point guard? 


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Fri May  8 15:56:38 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PED in the NBA
In-Reply-To: <8CB9E057E374FEA-920-5D7@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <830372.424.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I agree on the training/physiology integration but I do not think that the typical NBA player training regime over the course of the season while traveling different cities where they barely have time to practice between games and some players actually get fatter over the season accounts for the difference in body size/strength of some players today vs bygone eras. I do not think for a moment that some NBA players wouldnt do whatever they can get away with to gain an advantage in strength and stanima, using the shortcut of PEDs. There is just too much money at stake that human nature and competitiveness would not come into play here. 

Unfortunately without a true drug testing policy we may never know. 

Now on to the game at hand. 

Go C's? ? 

--- On Fri, 5/8/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:
From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: PED in the NBA
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 11:05 AM

I agree 100% that it makes you wonder, but I also think that the science of
athletics and exercise physiology is growing by leaps and bounds.  Seeing a show
about Lance Armstrong's training a few years ago was a stunner, as they
tweaked calories, measured heartrates at various angles of climb, figured out
what foods he should eat to spring as opposed to climb, etc.  They can work on
muscle groups and almost engineer the body to perform various tasks.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterix ninetynine <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 7:54 am
Subject: PED in the NBA



Anyone else wondering about the use of performance enhancing drugs in the
NBA??
Although steroids are banned under the league drug policy, only urine tests are
done wherein some steroids may be masked or, as in the case of Human Growth
Hormone (HGH), undetectable.? Detection on HGH requires a blood test and the
NBA
players union has said they will never allow blood testing.

The body size and shape of some of the players - LeBron James comes to mind but
so does Rondo-really makes you wonder.? Watch some of the games on ESPN
classic
from the 80's and early 90's and compare the physiques to those of some
of the
players today.? Makes you wonder.



_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/list
info/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

From douglas342 at aol.com  Fri May  8 16:19:52 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:19:52 -0400
Subject: PED in the NBA
In-Reply-To: <830372.424.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9E0FF3CD72B1-920-9CF@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>

LA talk radio has been abuzz with this discussion in light of Manny's 
suspension.  I confess that I tend to lean towards "let them take 
whatever they want."  There's plenty of information out there, and the 
players can juice up or whatever, knowing that they may kill themsleves 
and die millionaires at 45.  How many crippled NFL veterans do you hear 
about who say they'd do the same thing all over again?  Most of them.  
They're big kids.  Maybe we let them do what they want to do and assume 
that the teams would cover themselves regarding liability.  "I am going 
to take HGH knowing it'sll kill me, but it will also get me a $20M 
contract, and I'm willing to take the chance."



-----Original Message-----
From: R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 8:56 am
Subject: Re: PED in the NBA



I agree on the training/physiology integration but I do not think that 
the
typical NBA player training regime over the course of the season while 
traveling
different cities where they barely have time to practice between games 
and some
players actually get fatter over the season accounts for the difference 
in body
size/strength of some players today vs bygone eras. I do not think for 
a moment
that some NBA players wouldnt do whatever they can get away with to 
gain an
advantage in strength and stanima, using the shortcut of PED
s. There is 
just too
much money at stake that human nature and competitiveness would not 
come into
play here.

Unfortunately without a true drug testing policy we may never know.

Now on to the game at hand.

Go C's? ?

--- On Fri, 5/8/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:
From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: PED in the NBA
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 11:05 AM

I agree 100% that it makes you wonder, but I also think that the 
science of
athletics and exercise physiology is growing by leaps and bounds.  
Seeing a show
about Lance Armstrong's training a few years ago was a stunner, as they
tweaked calories, measured heartrates at various angles of climb, 
figured out
what foods he should eat to spring as opposed to climb, etc.  They can 
work on
muscle groups and almost engineer the body to perform various tasks.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterix ninetynine <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 7:54 am
Subject: PED in the NBA



Anyone else wondering about the use of performance enhancing drugs in 
the
NBA??
Although steroids are banned under the league drug policy, only urine 
tests are
done