From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 13:02:42 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 06:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Denver players
Message-ID: <302880.11585.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

To start the week off, here's a great read by a denver blogger (addresses the suggestions of getting Dahntay Jones, etc.):
http://www.denverstiffs.com/

enjoy,
Ellie



      

From green00333444 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 15:41:12 2009
From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trade Machine Fun
Message-ID: <584070.42621.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Now that the NBA season is over, and it's many months until the season begins, I could help firing up the ESPN NBA trade machine for some idle, pointless speculation...

Ray Allen for Rip Hamilton and T. Prince anyone?  Detroit drops long term contracts and saves 2 mil.  Boston solves a major bench problem...

Charles



      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jun  1 18:47:53 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:47:53 -0700
Subject: Trade Machine Fun
In-Reply-To: <584070.42621.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <584070.42621.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AA558B66-3D86-4905-B755-1DC2A85FAA06@verizon.net>

Would be nice but they would rip up for ray let alone rip & prince.  
Maybe iverson.



On Jun 1, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Green 00 <green00333444 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Now that the NBA season is over, and it's many months until the  
> season begins, I could help firing up the ESPN NBA trade machine for  
> some idle, pointless speculation...
>
> Ray Allen for Rip Hamilton and T. Prince anyone?  Detroit drops long  
> term contracts and saves 2 mil.  Boston solves a major bench  
> problem...
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jbrainin at verizon.net  Mon Jun  1 18:23:10 2009
From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:23:10 -0400
Subject: Trade Machine Fun
In-Reply-To: <584070.42621.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <584070.42621.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <84440ECF-5D70-4D1B-80C7-F70B68958B7F@verizon.net>

Why would Detroit do that?  Is McHale their new GM?

Jonathan

On Jun 1, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Green 00 wrote:

>
> Now that the NBA season is over, and it's many months until the  
> season begins, I could help firing up the ESPN NBA trade machine for  
> some idle, pointless speculation...
>
> Ray Allen for Rip Hamilton and T. Prince anyone?  Detroit drops long  
> term contracts and saves 2 mil.  Boston solves a major bench  
> problem...
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 00:49:08 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <334906.24683.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade -- Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.

But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite so rapidly. 

Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:

1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues for next season.

2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something substantial in a deal.

3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality replacement for Rondo is available at 14.     

4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness, apparently over-valuing himself.

5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?) Marbury.

Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1"> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com

Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this. No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have not made a comment on it as of yet.


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 01:01:55 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:01:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <759613.32664.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Dumb, dumb, dumb trade.  Rondo is the engine that makes the Cs go; while there are decent PG prospects in the draft, they won't be ready fast enough for us.  Amare and KG are clearly power forwards and starting Amare at center immediately diminishes our defense (as would losing Rondo).  We won a championship on defense.  Further, losing Ray limits our offensive efficiency and gives us a gaping hole at 2-guard.  God, I hate this time of the year--stupid trade proposals from no-name radio stations halfway across the country.  Did I mention that Barbosa is overpaid (and nothing more than a 6/7th man) and Amare a free agent in '10?  Even if Rondo has outrageous contract demands, you don't trade him this year.  Maybe a sign-and-trade next summer, but not this year.  GOD!!!

Ryan

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> To: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>, "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 7:49 PM
> 
> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> 
> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> intriguing? proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed,
> quite so rapidly. 
> 
> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> 
> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> for next season.
> 
> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> substantial in a deal.
> 
> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.?
> ???
> 
> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> apparently over-valuing himself.
> 
> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> Marbury.
> 
> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1">
> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> 
> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jun  3 01:17:18 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <334906.24683.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <334906.24683.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <455406.59681.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You always have to consider moves to make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could make us younger, and better.

We could get a?point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday & Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings?at 14.





________________________________
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>; Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th


Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade -- Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.

But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even intriguing? proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite so rapidly. 

Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:

1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues for next season.

2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something substantial in a deal.

3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality replacement for Rondo is available at 14.? ? 

4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness, apparently over-valuing himself.

5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?) Marbury.

Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1"> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com

Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this. No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have not made a comment on it as of yet.


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 01:34:31 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of the best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another player who happens to play the same position as your best player.  Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 who's mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best starting five in the league for another year and take your chances? 

Ryan

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> You always have to consider moves to
> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> make us younger, and better.
> 
> We could get a?point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings?at 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> 
> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> 
> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> intriguing? proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> so rapidly. 
> 
> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> 
> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> for next season.
> 
> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> substantial in a deal.
> 
> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.? ? 
> 
> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> apparently over-valuing himself.
> 
> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> Marbury.
> 
> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1">
> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> 
> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jun  3 01:53:23 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:53:23 -0700
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2BD36167-41C0-46FA-A78B-B3AD666F1E2A@verizon.net>

If lawson is there at 14 it could happen



On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of the  
> best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another  
> player who happens to play the same position as your best player.   
> Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 who's  
> mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That  
> sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best  
> starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
>> Barbosa/14th
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
>> You always have to consider moves to
>> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
>> make us younger, and better.
>>
>> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
>> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
>> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
>> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
>> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
>> Amare/Barbosa/14th
>>
>>
>> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
>> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
>> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
>> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
>>
>> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
>> intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
>> so rapidly.
>>
>> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
>>
>> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
>> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
>> for next season.
>>
>> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
>> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
>> substantial in a deal.
>>
>> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
>> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
>> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
>> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
>> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
>> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
>>
>> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
>> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
>> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
>> apparently over-valuing himself.
>>
>> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
>> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
>> Marbury.
>>
>> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
>> ">
>> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
>> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
>> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
>>
>> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
>> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
>> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
>> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
>> not made a comment on it as of yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 02:20:16 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trade "rumor"
Message-ID: <698485.8134.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


>Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench

That's swell, but who's your starting shooting guard? Eddie House?




      


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Wed Jun  3 03:15:52 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 23:15:52 -0400
Subject: trade "rumor"
In-Reply-To: <698485.8134.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <698485.8134.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <013501c9e3f9$99f26010$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

And your point guard, cause it ain't Barbosa!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:20 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: trade "rumor"


>Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench

That's swell, but who's your starting shooting guard? Eddie House?






_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2142 - Release Date: 06/02/09
06:47:00



From jozersky at optonline.net  Wed Jun  3 03:59:41 2009
From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 03:59:41 +0000
Subject: trade "rumor"
In-Reply-To: <698485.8134.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <698485.8134.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238870397-1244001354-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1375755122-@bxe1210.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

This rumor is insane. And discussing it is insane. 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com>

Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:20:16 
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Subject: trade "rumor"



>Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench

That's swell, but who's your starting shooting guard? Eddie House?




      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jun  3 13:35:10 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:35:10 -0700
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <25EC3BD0-4AA8-4A86-8F4C-9C9B4A901E59@verizon.net>

Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years  KG & ray are gone and Paul on  
his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have  
we heard if he was having surgery?

Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too  
inconsistent currently


The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent  
years

I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen

We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to  
come to Boston, and never have



On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of the  
> best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another  
> player who happens to play the same position as your best player.   
> Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 who's  
> mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That  
> sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best  
> starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
>> Barbosa/14th
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
>> You always have to consider moves to
>> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
>> make us younger, and better.
>>
>> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
>> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
>> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
>> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
>> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
>> Amare/Barbosa/14th
>>
>>
>> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
>> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
>> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
>> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
>>
>> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
>> intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
>> so rapidly.
>>
>> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
>>
>> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
>> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
>> for next season.
>>
>> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
>> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
>> substantial in a deal.
>>
>> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
>> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
>> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
>> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
>> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
>> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
>>
>> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
>> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
>> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
>> apparently over-valuing himself.
>>
>> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
>> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
>> Marbury.
>>
>> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
>> ">
>> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
>> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
>> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
>>
>> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
>> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
>> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
>> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
>> not made a comment on it as of yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Jun  3 13:50:49 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:50:49 -0400
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <25EC3BD0-4AA8-4A86-8F4C-9C9B4A901E59@verizon.net>
References: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<25EC3BD0-4AA8-4A86-8F4C-9C9B4A901E59@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200906031350.n53Dop44012528@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.

Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've probably gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.

As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th

Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years  KG & ray are gone and Paul on  
his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have  
we heard if he was having surgery?

Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too  
inconsistent currently


The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent  
years

I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen

We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to  
come to Boston, and never have



On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of the  
> best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another  
> player who happens to play the same position as your best player.   
> Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 who's  
> mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That  
> sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best  
> starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
>> Barbosa/14th
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
>> You always have to consider moves to
>> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
>> make us younger, and better.
>>
>> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
>> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
>> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
>> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
>> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
>> Amare/Barbosa/14th
>>
>>
>> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
>> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
>> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
>> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
>>
>> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
>> intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
>> so rapidly.
>>
>> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
>>
>> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
>> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
>> for next season.
>>
>> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
>> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
>> substantial in a deal.
>>
>> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
>> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
>> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
>> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
>> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
>> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
>>
>> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
>> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
>> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
>> apparently over-valuing himself.
>>
>> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
>> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
>> Marbury.
>>
>> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
>> ">
>> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
>> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
>> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
>>
>> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
>> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
>> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
>> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
>> not made a comment on it as of yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  3 13:58:50 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:58:50 -0300
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <200906031350.n53Dop44012528@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
References: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<25EC3BD0-4AA8-4A86-8F4C-9C9B4A901E59@verizon.net> 
	<200906031350.n53Dop44012528@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W6D65E728098266484B429D94A0@phx.gbl>


Rondo is a building block for the future.  Why would we want to involve him in any trade speculation is sheer lunacy.  Doe the names Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson ring a bell?  Rondo has improved each year and I see no reason why it would stop now.  And the thought of having a rookie come in and run this offense...well I'll just say that it would be very difficult for a youngster to wave Paul Pierce away.

 

This team, as was mentioned in previous messages, took Orlando to 7 games without a key player.  Rondo's play may have slipped a little in the series since he had to play so much in the previous series to help get us there.  So now let's trade him and give the keys to an unproven rookie???

 

Cecil


 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:50:49 -0400
> Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
> 
> Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've probably gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.
> 
> As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years KG & ray are gone and Paul on 
> his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have 
> we heard if he was having surgery?
> 
> Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too 
> inconsistent currently
> 
> 
> The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent 
> years
> 
> I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen
> 
> We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to 
> come to Boston, and never have
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE. You trade 2/5ths of the 
> > best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another 
> > player who happens to play the same position as your best player. 
> > Does that make sense? And then hope someone's available at 14 who's 
> > mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship? That 
> > sounds like a good idea to you? Why not just roll with the best 
> > starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
> >> Barbosa/14th
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> >> You always have to consider moves to
> >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> >> make us younger, and better.
> >>
> >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >>
> >>
> >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> >>
> >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> >> intriguing proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> >> so rapidly.
> >>
> >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> >>
> >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> >> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> >> for next season.
> >>
> >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> >> substantial in a deal.
> >>
> >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> >>
> >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> >> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> >>
> >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> >> Marbury.
> >>
> >> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
> >> ">
> >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> >> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
We are your photos. Share us now with Windows Live Photos.
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From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 14:53:01 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: early favorites--draft
Message-ID: <262817.94509.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Looking primarily at the #2 round where we might draft.? I like Toney Douglas of FSU as a backup point.? He graded the fastest player at the combine, is a magnificent scorer in clutch situations, was defensive player of year in ACC (pretty sure on that), losing POY to Ty Lawson, and is a 4 year player.? Said to be mediocre initiator and passer, so he's not in the first rank of pgs.? Still I think he would be an upgrade over E. House and could play either guard position as backup.
?
At 2 guard, I like Wes Matthews of Marquette.? He's on some of the mock draft second round lists.? He's 6' 5" and the son of an NBA player.? Another 4 year player, he scored well against the better teams and was a cog in a very good Marquette team.? Definitely a back-up player for a few years while waiting to see if he has the stuff to emerge.
?
At SF, I still like Danny Green of UNC.? 6' 6" with excellent wingspan, good defensive instincts and 42% three point average.? He's just a sav vy player and a winner--did very well vs. the better teams in the ACC; a little slump early in the tournament, but came on late.? I think he will be a good pro.
?
If we buy up into the late first round, I like D. Brown of Xavier--6' 8" SF.? Great size and a lefty.? Needs work but has the tools to be an excellent pro.? 
?
Miscellaneous:? I liked Julius Hodge when he came out of NC State a few years back.? He's been in Europe after recovering from a bad shooting injury while at Denver.? Don't know if he's progressed enough, but he considers himself a point guard (I thought of him as a two-guard playing the point).? Anyway, I hope he gets another shot at the show.
?
Weight & height & agiility stats are up on the nba site.? Cheers, Gene


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jun  3 15:46:44 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:46:44 -0400
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <200906031350.n53Dop44012528@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20090603114644.7XV69.170817.imail@eastrmwml33>

It's just Ray being Ray.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
> 
> Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've probably gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.
> 
> As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years  KG & ray are gone and Paul on  
> his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have  
> we heard if he was having surgery?
> 
> Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too  
> inconsistent currently
> 
> 
> The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent  
> years
> 
> I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen
> 
> We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to  
> come to Boston, and never have
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of the  
> > best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another  
> > player who happens to play the same position as your best player.   
> > Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 who's  
> > mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That  
> > sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best  
> > starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
> >> Barbosa/14th
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> >> You always have to consider moves to
> >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> >> make us younger, and better.
> >>
> >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >>
> >>
> >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> >>
> >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> >> intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> >> so rapidly.
> >>
> >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> >>
> >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> >> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> >> for next season.
> >>
> >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> >> substantial in a deal.
> >>
> >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> >>
> >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> >> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> >>
> >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> >> Marbury.
> >>
> >> Here's the original source: <a href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
> >> ">
> >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> >> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Wed Jun  3 16:17:39 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:17:39 -0400
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <20090603114644.7XV69.170817.imail@eastrmwml33>
Message-ID: <8CBB27DF2FC862B-A44-43E@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com>

Well, I think it's one of Ray's more reasonable posts, although given 
the height of THAT bar ...

Seriously, how many players would you trade Rondo for, straight up?  He 
is on the verge of being one of the elite point guards in the NBA and 
has about 8-10 good years to go.  I would only consider trading him for 
someone under 26 who is already an all-star.  (As with any trade talk, 
I am assuming that the rest of the roster stays as it is.  I.e., 
Rondo's replacement would join the 31+ year old PGA, Perk, etc.)


-----Original Message-----
From: martind42 at cox.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 8:46 am
Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For 
Amare/Barbosa/14th



It's just Ray being Ray.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:
> Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
>
> Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've 
probably
gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.
>
> As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On 
Behalf Of
John Lyell
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For 
Amare/Barbosa/14th
>
> Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years  KG & ray are gone and Paul 
on
> his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have 

> we heard if he was having surgery?
>
> Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too
> inconsistent currently
>
>
> The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent
> years
>
> I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen
>
> We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up 
to
> come to Boston, and never have
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.  You trade 2/5ths of 
the
> > best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and 
another
> > player who happens to play the same position as your best player.
> > Does that make sense?  And then hope someone's available at 14 
who's
> > mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship?  That
> > sounds like a good idea to you?  Why not just roll with the best
> > starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/
> >> Barbosa/14th
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> >> You always have to consider moves to
> >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> >> make us younger, and better.
> >>
> >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >>
> >>
> >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> >>
> >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> >> intriguing  proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> >> so rapidly.
> >>
> >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> >>
> >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> >> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> >> for next season.
> >>
> >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> >> substantial in a deal.
> >>
> >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> >>
> >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> >> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> >>
> >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> >> Marbury.
> >>
> >> Here's the original source: <a 
href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&
id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1

> >> ">
> >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> >> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 19:22:04 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 12:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <511398.4076.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I'd trade him straight-up for Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Derrick Rose.  I think he's going to be a top-five player in this league, barring injury.

Ryan

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 11:17 AM
> Well, I think it's one of Ray's more
> reasonable posts, although given 
> the height of THAT bar ...
> 
> Seriously, how many players would you trade Rondo for,
> straight up?? He 
> is on the verge of being one of the elite point guards in
> the NBA and 
> has about 8-10 good years to go.? I would only
> consider trading him for 
> someone under 26 who is already an all-star.? (As with
> any trade talk, 
> I am assuming that the rest of the roster stays as it
> is.? I.e., 
> Rondo's replacement would join the 31+ year old PGA, Perk,
> etc.)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: martind42 at cox.net
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 8:46 am
> Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> 
> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> 
> 
> It's just Ray being Ray.
> ---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> wrote:
> > Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
> >
> > Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The
> Cs would've 
> probably
> gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more
> often.
> >
> > As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On 
> Behalf Of
> John Lyell
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor:
> Rondo/Allen For 
> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >
> > Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years? KG &
> ray are gone and Paul 
> on
> > his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this
> nagging injury. Have 
> 
> > we heard if he was having surgery?
> >
> > Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe
> game? Too
> > inconsistent currently
> >
> >
> > The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done
> well in recent
> > years
> >
> > I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely
> Will not happen
> >
> > We have not done well in free agency, players just
> aren't lining up 
> to
> > come to Boston, and never have
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE.?
> You trade 2/5ths of 
> the
> > > best starting five in the league for an overpaid
> 6th man and 
> another
> > > player who happens to play the same position as
> your best player.
> > > Does that make sense?? And then hope
> someone's available at 14 
> who's
> > > mature and talented enough to lead us to a
> championship?? That
> > > sounds like a good idea to you?? Why not
> just roll with the best
> > > starting five in the league for another year and
> take your chances?
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor:
> Rondo/Allen For Amare/
> > >> Barbosa/14th
> > >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> > >> You always have to consider moves to
> > >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this
> move could
> > >> make us younger, and better.
> > >>
> > >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue
> Holiday &
> > >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon
> Jennings at 14.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> > >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> > >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> > >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor:
> Rondo/Allen For
> > >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi
> moderators (aka
> > >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored
> trade --
> > >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which
> allegedly
> > >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> > >>
> > >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very
> interesting, even
> > >> intriguing? proposal, which shouldn't be
> dismissed, quite
> > >> so rapidly.
> > >>
> > >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics
> perspective:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or
> Perkins, both
> > >> likely coming off of surgery, and with
> status/health issues
> > >> for next season.
> > >>
> > >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center,
> freeing up
> > >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire
> something
> > >> substantial in a deal.
> > >>
> > >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky
> Rubio, Tyreke
> > >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen
> Curry, Jrue
> > >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague,
> Darren
> > >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to
> go in the first
> > >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for
> extension) quality
> > >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a
> possibility, that
> > >> signing him to an extension may be much more
> difficult than
> > >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of
> extreme cockiness,
> > >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> > >>
> > >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the
> bench, and gives
> > >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the
> re-signed(?)
> > >> Marbury.
> > >>
> > >> Here's the original source: <a 
> href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&
> id=315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1
> 
> > >> ">
> > >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of
> Phoenix: Ray Allen
> > >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro
> Barbosa, and
> > >> the 14th overall pick. Source:
> sports.ktar.com
> > >>
> > >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but
> it is being
> > >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio
> as I write this.
> > >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such.
> They did mention
> > >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that
> the Suns have
> > >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >> celtics at igtc.com
> > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >> celtics at igtc.com
> > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From tfmiii at worldnet.att.net  Thu Jun  4 01:58:59 2009
From: tfmiii at worldnet.att.net (Tom Murphy)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:58:59 -0600
Subject: Amare/Rondo trade rumor
Message-ID: <72E7342FB7D141129FEE987FCEBA68A6@D1FFY321>

I can understand the emotional response to the trade rumor, but I don't think it does justice either to the supposed trade or Ainge. I agree with much of what Ryan had to say (value of Ray, anticipated improvement of Rondo, the best starting five, why blow it up etc) but there is another side of the issue to be examined that is being glossed over in the emotional reaction to breaking up possibly the best team - when healthy..... allow me to play the devil's advocate.

Ainge has steadfastly maintained that the time to trade players is before they are over the hill, perhaps having just 'crested the hill.' I think it is safe to say that Ray Allen has several more productive years ahead of him, but I think it is also true that Ray has 'crested the hill.' He will never again be worth close to twenty million a year.... 

...and what may be just as important, that 20 million trade slot will expire with Ray's current contract. If we are to realize 20 million in contracts it has to be this year with Ray's expiring contract. We are not going to be players in the grand FA sweepstakes at the end of 2010. Our opportunities to add young(er) established stars is through trades with teams ready to clear some salary and enter a rebuilding phase. Phoenix certainly fits the bill in this regard. 

Let's look at Rondo's value.... currently it is higher than it ever will be because he is on the cusp of all-stardom yet is still on his rookie contract. He could very well become one of the elite players in the game, but what Ainge has to gauge is whether Rondo at 24 is going to be as able to bridge the gap between himself and the big three (and as valuable a piece as Perkins is, he does not have the talent to significantly aid Rondo in keeping Boston an elite team). If Ainge can trade Rondo now, especially in conjunction with Ray's expiring contract, he can add some people who are difference makes - Amare Stoudamire and to a much lesser degree Barbosa - who are both old enough to produce consistently and yet not yet at the cusps of their respective careers. 

And let's face it, consistency is Rondo's biggest problem. One night he is not just the best player on the floor, he is the best player on the planet. On other nights he is virtually invisible. People call this playoffs Rondo's coming out party, but viewed from another perspective it was also his final exam -- can he put it together and put the team on his back for a seven game series? Unfortunately the answer is no, it looked at the start of the Chicago series he could, but it did not pan out. And if you are looking to Rondo to be the one to carry the load currently shared by the big three over the next several years.... well it could be taken as a bit sobering. 

As good as Rondo is (and he is very good) he is not ready to eclipse any of the big three on a consistent basis, which is what he would have to do over the next thee to four years to make it a seamless transition in terms of title hopes. A terrific player who, like Jason Kidd, will battle problems with teams doubling off him for several years to come. He has unbounded potential, but if you have a chance to pull off something special......

Which brings us to what in the world might Ainge be thinking if he is behind this (and I think it very believable that he is). He saw a team that took Orlando, the best team left in the playoffs and in my eyes odds on favorite for the championship, to seven games - without Garnett! Yet he also saw an Orlando team that could afford to sag off or ignore two of our starters for significant segments of that same series. Is Ainge content with a coinflip's chance at Banner 18? I think this proposal, if indeed coming from Ainge, shows that he is not.....

While Orlando could get away focusing defensive coverage on 3 out of 5 Celtics, Boston had to cover all five positions for the most part of the series, and that I think was telling towards the end of the series (and was key against Cleveland and will be important for Orlando vs LA as well). Orlando was not only able to field more consistent scoring threats at every position, a significant advantage in itself, they were able to focus on our fewer threats and wear them down. 

The key to keeping our valuable pieces healthy when we get to the postseason is have more players who can 'make plays,' by which we mean players who can do more than simply sub in and fill a spot but come in and create mismatches, change momentum, swing games. That is the difference between an Amare Stoudamire and a Rasheed or McDyess. Amare is going to create headaches for the opposition, Rasheed or McDyess will hold the fort until Garnett gets back up off the bench.

Yes we were arguably the best starting five, but the best starting five does not always win the championship, something Ainge is intimately aware of, having lived through it with Bird, Parish, McHale and DJ. If your players are breaking down by the time the playoffs hit, it is time to do more than simply bolster the bench with a few nice role players like the ones I and some others have been tossing around. Ainge seems to believe this and is not afraid to act on it either. Sure there are risks involved, but if you want to be more than simply be one of several, depending on matchups to get through the playoffs..... something needs to be done to go from contender to dominator. 

Note too that this is a more urgent need in the Eastern Conference, where the three best teams currently reside. While the West is deeper, the East has more legit contenders. Part of the reason Boston did not dominate all season like last is the fact that other teams have gotten much better. Another reason is that other teams have now seen us several times and now have specific schemes to exploit our weaknesses and combat our strengths. Finally, yes the bench was a disappointment.... last year's bench was exceptional, this year's was average. Regardless, our road back to the top was harder this year and will be harder next year than it was in 2008. We can't afford to tread water, as safe as that may seem. We are not the Spurs in 2005.... the league is better, stronger and other teams are willing to do more to make it to the top.... as they should be, since we showed them how. 

So how would this trade help us dominate once again? Legitimate questions have been asked about where Amare would play, who would man the point, who is the shooting guard etc. I haven't read it, but I would think there would be questions about defense and motivation as well regarding the new acquisitions. Ray is a model teammate..... but Amare?

Let's address point guard. I find it hard to believe that Ainge would trade Rondo and hand the position to a rookie.... especially since he has a proven vet who has played with the team and shown he has learned some important lessons in Marbury working out at Waltham as you read this. If Ainge is contemplating trading Rondo, I don't think it is a panic reaction to the last half of the year, and so I would also have to believe that he brought in Marbury for more than just one victory in the playoffs. Unlike Sam Cassell, Marbury still has gas in his tank. He is not the defender or rebounder that Rondo is, but he can shoot and he could (emphasis on could) be the perfect guy to help us maintain championship form for the next several years while a rookie gets shown the ropes. 

Shooting guard, I have to believe that this is where Barbosa gets penciled in. Is he as good a shooter as Ray.... well no one is, but he is a shooter/scorer and his legs are a good deal younger. If he can fill it up on fastbreaks, kickouts/rotations and off screens, he could approximate some of the scoring threat we currently get out of the spot. 

Finally where does Amare play? Center? Well, in an answer yes. Or at least he covers the opposing center when Perkins is not in. He gives us an explosive inside presence that other centers will have difficulty containing. Will he like it, perhaps not at first, but Rivers and Garnett has shown an ability to get other to get on board the ubuntu express. 

Many of the centers in the league are PFs manning the spot; against them Amare should have no problem. Against the others he will have to absorb some lumps while dishing out many more on the other end. As long as he has Garnett (and Perkins) behind him, I think he will do much better than may  be anticipated, as Garnett's weak side help will change the equation from what Amare faced at center from what he had when the Matrix as his (undersized) sidekick. I think Garnett's high post game would very favorably complement Amare's midrange/drive game too.

With Amare, Barbosa and Marbury as part of the starting five, Boston would pose a threat at each position. There would no longer be any Kobe or Rafer Alston or even DHoward clogging the middle, at least not without some consequences. And in the NBA playoffs a good offense is sometimes the best defense, because scoring allows you to set your defense for the opponents next possession. 

Amare gives us a solid three man rotation.... no need to pine for Marcin Gortat, we have someone even better on our bench in Perkins and with BBD right behind we could expand it to four. Less minutes, less strain when on the court (because the game comes easier the better teammates you have) equals less injuries and/or more time to recover properly. (do you really thing Garnett first hurt his knee in Utah?)

You end up trading two smalls for a big and a small; you trade one getting a little long in the tooth and another not quite into his prime for two who ARE in their prime (both will be 28 by next year's playoffs); and you balance the team depth, turning our weakness up front into a strength (and I would look forward to seeing Amare garner plenty of fouls on opposing big men). 

Sure you give up a diamond in Rondo, but a flawed diamond, in exchange for a frontline that can give LA, or Orlando or Cleveland's frontlines big problems and their coach big headaches. Heck I would not be surprised to see Doc match up Perkins, Garnett and Amare against Orlando's front three, pushing Pierce to SG for some minutes. As for Ray, well I would not be surprised to see him back the following season, backing up Barbosa and extending his career while doing so.

Whether or not this pans out (and the fact that we are hearing about means that it likely does not) I am encouraged that Ainge is not ready to sit back and wait till the current Celtics shamble off to retirement. 

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 12:48:46 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:48:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tom's great post
Message-ID: <335704.95504.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well worth reading & considering.? My concern:? wouldn't Rondo be the best player in such a trade?? move forward 3 to 5 years--wouldn't he be the best player?? He wore down along with the others, partly because they couldn't manage the long season and too many minutes, and he had no adequate backup.? Along with his improvement across the board, his jumper is getting better.? Just my preliminary response.? Cheers, Gene



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jun  4 12:59:50 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:59:50 -0400
Subject: Tom's great post
In-Reply-To: <335704.95504.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <335704.95504.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200906041259.n54Cxr65025105@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

The old adage: "never trade the best player in any deal" isn't always true, but usually is (who got the better end of the Manny-Jason Bay deal - discuss...). Add in the second parable of "point guard and center are the hardest positions to fill in the NBA" and suddenly we're skewing more toward keeping rather than letting go off Rajon Rondo.

I'll be the broken record here. We won a title based on defense. In all honesty you can get offense in this league cheap and plentiful at almost every position.  What you can't find is defenders, much less guys that can do BOTH!  Rondo is one of those guys. 

You NEVER give up "five tool" (for a PG: defense, passing, handle, rebounding, and offense) players for one way guys. You just don't. And Rondo right now is a four and half tool player (offense without the jumpshot equals the 1/2 a tool in my head). So the guy coming back better be a five tool player!

So if they actually consumate a trade involving Rondo it had better be for guys filling that criteria, otherwise the Celtics are getting hosed.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:49 AM
To: celtics
Subject: re: Tom's great post

Well worth reading & considering.? My concern:? wouldn't Rondo be the best player in such a trade?? move forward 3 to 5 years--wouldn't he be the best player?? He wore down along with the others, partly because they couldn't manage the long season and too many minutes, and he had no adequate backup.? Along with his improvement across the board, his jumper is getting better.? Just my preliminary response.? Cheers, Gene



      
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From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 13:05:09 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Amare/Rondo trade rumor
Message-ID: <467044.11989.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Great read, Tom!? Well thought out - who would have thought of Ray coming back for the bench!? I need to read this a couple few more times.

thanks,
Ellie

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, Tom Murphy <tfmiii at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

From: Tom Murphy <tfmiii at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Amare/Rondo trade rumor
To: "Celtic list" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 9:58 PM

I can understand the emotional response to the trade rumor, but I don't think it does justice either to the supposed trade or Ainge. I agree with much of what Ryan had to say (value of Ray, anticipated improvement of Rondo, the best starting five, why blow it up etc) but there is another side of the issue to be examined that is being glossed over in the emotional reaction to breaking up possibly the best team - when healthy..... allow me to play the devil's advocate.

Ainge has steadfastly maintained that the time to trade players is before they are over the hill, perhaps having just 'crested the hill.' I think it is safe to say that Ray Allen has several more productive years ahead of him, but I think it is also true that Ray has 'crested the hill.' He will never again be worth close to twenty million a year.... 

...and what may be just as important, that 20 million trade slot will expire with Ray's current contract. If we are to realize 20 million in contracts it has to be this year with Ray's expiring contract. We are not going to be players in the grand FA sweepstakes at the end of 2010. Our opportunities to add young(er) established stars is through trades with teams ready to clear some salary and enter a rebuilding phase. Phoenix certainly fits the bill in this regard. 

Let's look at Rondo's value.... currently it is higher than it ever will be because he is on the cusp of all-stardom yet is still on his rookie contract. He could very well become one of the elite players in the game, but what Ainge has to gauge is whether Rondo at 24 is going to be as able to bridge the gap between himself and the big three (and as valuable a piece as Perkins is, he does not have the talent to significantly aid Rondo in keeping Boston an elite team). If Ainge can trade Rondo now, especially in conjunction with Ray's expiring contract, he can add some people who are difference makes - Amare Stoudamire and to a much lesser degree Barbosa - who are both old enough to produce consistently and yet not yet at the cusps of their respective careers. 

And let's face it, consistency is Rondo's biggest problem. One night he is not just the best player on the floor, he is the best player on the planet. On other nights he is virtually invisible. People call this playoffs Rondo's coming out party, but viewed from another perspective it was also his final exam -- can he put it together and put the team on his back for a seven game series? Unfortunately the answer is no, it looked at the start of the Chicago series he could, but it did not pan out. And if you are looking to Rondo to be the one to carry the load currently shared by the big three over the next several years.... well it could be taken as a bit sobering. 

As good as Rondo is (and he is very good) he is not ready to eclipse any of the big three on a consistent basis, which is what he would have to do over the next thee to four years to make it a seamless transition in terms of title hopes. A terrific player who, like Jason Kidd, will battle problems with teams doubling off him for several years to come. He has unbounded potential, but if you have a chance to pull off something special......

Which brings us to what in the world might Ainge be thinking if he is behind this (and I think it very believable that he is). He saw a team that took Orlando, the best team left in the playoffs and in my eyes odds on favorite for the championship, to seven games - without Garnett! Yet he also saw an Orlando team that could afford to sag off or ignore two of our starters for significant segments of that same series. Is Ainge content with a coinflip's chance at Banner 18? I think this proposal, if indeed coming from Ainge, shows that he is not.....

While Orlando could get away focusing defensive coverage on 3 out of 5 Celtics, Boston had to cover all five positions for the most part of the series, and that I think was telling towards the end of the series (and was key against Cleveland and will be important for Orlando vs LA as well). Orlando was not only able to field more consistent scoring threats at every position, a significant advantage in itself, they were able to focus on our fewer threats and wear them down. 

The key to keeping our valuable pieces healthy when we get to the postseason is have more players who can 'make plays,' by which we mean players who can do more than simply sub in and fill a spot but come in and create mismatches, change momentum, swing games. That is the difference between an Amare Stoudamire and a Rasheed or McDyess. Amare is going to create headaches for the opposition, Rasheed or McDyess will hold the fort until Garnett gets back up off the bench.

Yes we were arguably the best starting five, but the best starting five does not always win the championship, something Ainge is intimately aware of, having lived through it with Bird, Parish, McHale and DJ. If your players are breaking down by the time the playoffs hit, it is time to do more than simply bolster the bench with a few nice role players like the ones I and some others have been tossing around. Ainge seems to believe this and is not afraid to act on it either. Sure there are risks involved, but if you want to be more than simply be one of several, depending on matchups to get through the playoffs..... something needs to be done to go from contender to dominator. 

Note too that this is a more urgent need in the Eastern Conference, where the three best teams currently reside. While the West is deeper, the East has more legit contenders. Part of the reason Boston did not dominate all season like last is the fact that other teams have gotten much better. Another reason is that other teams have now seen us several times and now have specific schemes to exploit our weaknesses and combat our strengths. Finally, yes the bench was a disappointment.... last year's bench was exceptional, this year's was average. Regardless, our road back to the top was harder this year and will be harder next year than it was in 2008. We can't afford to tread water, as safe as that may seem. We are not the Spurs in 2005.... the league is better, stronger and other teams are willing to do more to make it to the top.... as they should be, since we showed them how. 

So how would this trade help us dominate once again? Legitimate questions have been asked about where Amare would play, who would man the point, who is the shooting guard etc. I haven't read it, but I would think there would be questions about defense and motivation as well regarding the new acquisitions. Ray is a model teammate..... but Amare?

Let's address point guard. I find it hard to believe that Ainge would trade Rondo and hand the position to a rookie.... especially since he has a proven vet who has played with the team and shown he has learned some important lessons in Marbury working out at Waltham as you read this. If Ainge is contemplating trading Rondo, I don't think it is a panic reaction to the last half of the year, and so I would also have to believe that he brought in Marbury for more than just one victory in the playoffs. Unlike Sam Cassell, Marbury still has gas in his tank. He is not the defender or rebounder that Rondo is, but he can shoot and he could (emphasis on could) be the perfect guy to help us maintain championship form for the next several years while a rookie gets shown the ropes. 

Shooting guard, I have to believe that this is where Barbosa gets penciled in. Is he as good a shooter as Ray.... well no one is, but he is a shooter/scorer and his legs are a good deal younger. If he can fill it up on fastbreaks, kickouts/rotations and off screens, he could approximate some of the scoring threat we currently get out of the spot. 

Finally where does Amare play? Center? Well, in an answer yes. Or at least he covers the opposing center when Perkins is not in. He gives us an explosive inside presence that other centers will have difficulty containing. Will he like it, perhaps not at first, but Rivers and Garnett has shown an ability to get other to get on board the ubuntu express. 

Many of the centers in the league are PFs manning the spot; against them Amare should have no problem. Against the others he will have to absorb some lumps while dishing out many more on the other end. As long as he has Garnett (and Perkins) behind him, I think he will do much better than may? be anticipated, as Garnett's weak side help will change the equation from what Amare faced at center from what he had when the Matrix as his (undersized) sidekick. I think Garnett's high post game would very favorably complement Amare's midrange/drive game too.

With Amare, Barbosa and Marbury as part of the starting five, Boston would pose a threat at each position. There would no longer be any Kobe or Rafer Alston or even DHoward clogging the middle, at least not without some consequences. And in the NBA playoffs a good offense is sometimes the best defense, because scoring allows you to set your defense for the opponents next possession. 

Amare gives us a solid three man rotation.... no need to pine for Marcin Gortat, we have someone even better on our bench in Perkins and with BBD right behind we could expand it to four. Less minutes, less strain when on the court (because the game comes easier the better teammates you have) equals less injuries and/or more time to recover properly. (do you really thing Garnett first hurt his knee in Utah?)

You end up trading two smalls for a big and a small; you trade one getting a little long in the tooth and another not quite into his prime for two who ARE in their prime (both will be 28 by next year's playoffs); and you balance the team depth, turning our weakness up front into a strength (and I would look forward to seeing Amare garner plenty of fouls on opposing big men). 

Sure you give up a diamond in Rondo, but a flawed diamond, in exchange for a frontline that can give LA, or Orlando or Cleveland's frontlines big problems and their coach big headaches. Heck I would not be surprised to see Doc match up Perkins, Garnett and Amare against Orlando's front three, pushing Pierce to SG for some minutes. As for Ray, well I would not be surprised to see him back the following season, backing up Barbosa and extending his career while doing so.

Whether or not this pans out (and the fact that we are hearing about means that it likely does not) I am encouraged that Ainge is not ready to sit back and wait till the current Celtics shamble off to retirement. 
_______________________________________________
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celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 13:28:42 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Update: Amare Will Be Traded, Just Not To Boston Apparently
Message-ID: <517580.19172.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Info below.
But, here's what we know.
- C's one of 10 teams interested in Amare.
- Suns want to extend Nash, so no room for Rondo.
- Suns would like Perk (or some such big) included.

My suggestion, expand the trade, a three or four team deal, 
where Rondo is dealt to Team C or D, for something the Suns want.
And include Perkins in the deal, as Amare would be starting any ways,
with a free agent big man, McDyess/Rasheed/etc. coming off the bench as
the backup center. Or, keep Perk, and use Rondo and the expirings to acquire the biggie the Suns want to be packaged with Allen.

Hopefully, Amare doesn't end up in Cleveland.
Ray

http://ktar.com/?sid=1175731&nid=624

I spent a lot of time on the show Tuesday talking about trade scenarios for Amare Stoudemire. One of them was a deal with the Boston Celtics in which the Suns might be able to land the talented point guard Rajon Rondo -- a player they once drafted. 

It's no secret that the Celtics like Stoudemire, they are one of about 10 teams that have shown interest in the power forward. And it's no secret that the Suns will be shopping Stoudemire hard once the NBA Finals are over. 

The Suns have no intention of giving Stoudemire a contract extension of which he is eligible for this summer and they certainly don't want to let him walk after next season when he has the right to opt out of his current contract. So Stoudemire will be dealt and there will be some good deals on the table to give STAT a new address. The Celtics will show interest and could put together some enticing packages. But it is unlikely that Stoudemire will be wearing green next year. 

First and foremost the Suns still want Steve Nash to be the point guard on this team and want to extend him another two years. Second, in any trade involving Stoudemire they would like to get another big back. The Celtics deal I discussed centered around Rondo and Ray Allen, two guards. So while I believe Rondo can be had for the right price, I just can't see the Suns wanting to end the Steve Nash era at this point. Remember, they still need to sell tickets to a fan base unhappy with last season's results and dealing with a tough economy.


      


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 14:02:13 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest, Vol 17, Issue 122
In-Reply-To: <mailman.141.1244120409.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.141.1244120409.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <870365.74798.qm@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

those are the only 3, and i'd think very, very hard before saying yes. 

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 12:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
    Amare/Barbosa/14th
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <511398.4076.qm at web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


I'd trade him straight-up for Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Derrick Rose.  I think he's going to be a top-five player in this league, barring injury.

Ryan


      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jun  4 14:25:33 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:25:33 -0700
Subject: Tom's great post
In-Reply-To: <200906041259.n54Cxr65025105@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
References: <335704.95504.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200906041259.n54Cxr65025105@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <0FD936C7-A3B3-4FE5-A240-1147CEBF3913@verizon.net>

Jerry West once said you make any trade, even wihhin the division, if  
you think it improves your team. If you can't, you don't have  
confidence in your talent evaluation skills


You can look at trading rajon from the " no way, remember chauncy & JJ  
perspective " but also from the inconsistency view, although he is still
Young. They will once again have to address an aging big  three, and  
second round picks will not keep us at this level. LA seems to have  
been able to retool and stay at a high level and attract talent better  
than we have. Then there is the clippers!



On Jun 4, 2009, at 5:59 AM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> The old adage: "never trade the best player in any deal" isn't  
> always true, but usually is (who got the better end of the Manny- 
> Jason Bay deal - discuss...). Add in the second parable of "point  
> guard and center are the hardest positions to fill in the NBA" and  
> suddenly we're skewing more toward keeping rather than letting go  
> off Rajon Rondo.
>
> I'll be the broken record here. We won a title based on defense. In  
> all honesty you can get offense in this league cheap and plentiful  
> at almost every position.  What you can't find is defenders, much  
> less guys that can do BOTH!  Rondo is one of those guys.
>
> You NEVER give up "five tool" (for a PG: defense, passing, handle,  
> rebounding, and offense) players for one way guys. You just don't.  
> And Rondo right now is a four and half tool player (offense without  
> the jumpshot equals the 1/2 a tool in my head). So the guy coming  
> back better be a five tool player!
>
> So if they actually consumate a trade involving Rondo it had better  
> be for guys filling that criteria, otherwise the Celtics are getting  
> hosed.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On  
> Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:49 AM
> To: celtics
> Subject: re: Tom's great post
>
> Well worth reading & considering.  My concern:  wouldn't Rondo be  
> the best player in such a trade?  move forward 3 to 5 years-- 
> wouldn't he be the best player?  He wore down along with the others,  
> partly because they couldn't manage the long season and too many  
> minutes, and he had no adequate backup.  Along with his improvement  
> across the board, his jumper is getting better.  Just my preliminary  
> response.  Cheers, Gene
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Thu Jun  4 19:33:13 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:33:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ESPN.com: Sports Guy: Letters of the rich and famous (part 1 of 2)
Message-ID: <173827.39784.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

From: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090603&sportCat=nba



Letters of the rich and famous
By Bill Simmons
Page 2


We have a special wrinkle for the mailbag
heading into the NBA Finals: I'm only answering questions from
well-known people. Did I make them up? Of course I did. But if they HAD
e-mailed me, I'd like to think those questions would go something like
this:

Q: I'm still mad. During that Orlando series, I
had less help than Tony Montana in the last scene of "Scarface." The
bright side is the series didn't end with me getting shot 75 times and
falling headfirst into a pool. Can you give me some silver linings to
make me feel better? You know, before I do something drastic like
killing Sasha and Z to get them off our cap?
-- LeBron J., Cleveland

SG: Sure. I came up with five.


?
You joined Jordan in the 50 Club for post-merger guys who averaged
50-plus combined points, rebounds and assists in the same postseason
(minimum: 13 games played). So that's pretty cool. (Putting on my Robin
Williams beard.) It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not
your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

?
Your game-winning 3-pointer in Game 2 briefly ranked among the 12
greatest playoff shots before quickly being rendered semi-irrelevant
and jumping into a different group: the Roy McAvoy hall of fame for
"meaningless sporting events that became immortal anyway" group, as described in my May 22 mailbag.
Just for the hell of it, one man's vote for the 10 greatest playoff
shots ever, in no particular order: Jordan's Finals-winner in 1998;
Magic's baby sky hook, Game 4, '87 Finals; Big Shot Rob's Game 4 winner
versus '02 Sacramento; Big Shot Rob's Game 5-saving 3-pointer versus
'05 Pistons; Sam Jones' Game 4 winner in the '69 Finals; Ralph
Sampson's series-winner versus '86 Lakers; John Havlicek's Game
5-saving banker in double-OT versus '76 Suns; Derek Fisher's Game 5
winner versus '04 Spurs; Dirk Nowitzki's series-saving 3-point play,
Game 7 versus '06 Spurs; Kareem's Game 6-winner versus '74 Celtics.
Picks hinged on the urgency of the moment; degree of difficulty;
iconicness of the replay; and impact on the player's team winning the
Finals, making the Finals or extending the Finals.

(A few
more while we're here. Most underrated: Bobby Dandridge's series-winner
with three Spurs on him in the '79 Eastern finals. Most overrated: MJ's
famous shot to beat the '89 Cavs; ultimately, it meant nothing. Most
secretly underrated: MJ's game-winner in Game 1 of the '97 Finals. Most
overrated AND underrated: Gar Heard's turnaround to send Game 6 of the
'76 Finals into a third overtime. And the one I refuse to acknowledge:
Larry Johnson's four-point play against the '99 Pacers, the worst
continuation call in NBA history. In fact, you could foul L.J. right
now and Jess Kersey would call it a continuation for that 3-pointer
from 10 years ago. The worst. Don't be surprised if we find out some
day that the NBA was run by Vince McMahon from 1998-2002.)

?
Your performance in a do-or-die Game 5 -- after four grueling games in
a row, when your coaching staff basically gave up in the second half
and said, "Here's the ball, do something" -- was one of the single
greatest performances I have ever seen. I caught your final box score
in a newspaper and it looked like a lottery result or a sequence of
numbers that would terrify Hurley on "Lost": 46 11 24 15 19 3 14 12 3
37. Egads. Just an incredible display of will, and maybe even something
that inspired Kobe's equally incredible performance the following night
(the second-best game of Kobe's career behind this one, at least in my opinion).

?
Your game-tying free throws with 0.5 seconds remaining in Game 4, on
the road in Orlando, cracked the short list of the most pressure-filled
free throws ever made. Here are my top six in reverse order:

6.
Game 2, 1986 first round. Everyone remembers Jordan's 63-point game. Do
you remember him getting fouled at the buzzer and sinking two free
throws to send it into OT?

5. Game 6, 1988 Finals. Down
one with 12 seconds left, a 42-year-old Kareem calmly sinks both free
throws to (eventually) extend the series. Bonus points here because he
shaved his head that year and looked like an alien.

4.
Game 5, 2006 Finals. It has been forgotten because Bennett Salvatore
pulled a John Wilkes Booth on the Mavericks with the call that made it
happen, but Dwyane Wade did sink game-tying and game-winning free
throws with 1.9 left in overtime of a must-win game. Gotta hand it to
him.

3. 1987 All-Star Game. Rolando Blackman gets fouled at the buzzer of the best All-Star Game ever played,
goes to the line by himself -- with every great player watching, and
Isiah even trash-talking him beforehand -- and drains both freebies to
send the game into overtime. I know it sounds crazy, but this was
frighteningly tense at the time. I swear. No, really. I'm not pulling
your leg. I wouldn't do that. CAN YOU JUST BELIEVE ME? Thanks.

2.
Game 4, 2009 Eastern finals. Different from the others because it's the
only time in NBA history -- at least that I can remember -- when a
player drained two do-or-die freebies as the player's entire city
braced itself for a miss that never came. That moment was bigger than
even LeBron. And he nailed it. Phenomenal.

1. 1972
Olympics, gold-medal game. Poor Doug Collins gets absolutely murdered
on a fast-break layup -- seriously, it's like a flagrant 9 -- needs two
minutes to untangle his body, then unfathomably drains the (apparent)
game-tying and game-winning free throws with two seconds remaining
against the Russians during the height of the Cold War. Only one way to
top that one: a must-win Finals game in which a star drains the winning
free throws with a broken leg or a broken arm or something. That's it.

?
When you caused a controversy by storming off the court after Game 6
and refusing to attend your press conference, you did something even
better: You brought us back to the days when "rivals" didn't hug each
other like Red and Andy after every game, when NBA stars actually took
losing personally and treated their peers like enemies instead of
friends. I loved it. That was an old-school move. And as reader Brian
Naftaly points out, you accomplished something even better: You made
your teammates cover you in the postgame press conference, marking the
first time all series they did something or helped you in any way. That
was genius. Hold your head up high, LeBron James. You could not have
done more with the possible exception of coaching the team ? and
really, that might not have been a bad idea.

(Now, please
spend the summer working on a low-post game and come back with at least
two moves. If you care about cracking the top six of all time -- and I
think you do -- then you should have a reliable jump hook, a drop step
and an MJ-like fallaway by November. Period.)

Q: Come on, if I had stormed off after a tough playoff loss like that, you would have killed me, right? Just admit it.
-- K. Bryant, Los Angeles

SG: (Searching for a comeback.)

Q. How long do you think I can keep milking this "Mr. Big
Shot" gimmick without anyone pointing out my nasty habit of
disappearing in deciding games?
-- C. Billups, Denver


SG: Chauncey! You're alive! I thought you had died after Game 4 of the
Lakers series; what a relief! Anyway, I give you credit for bringing
this up. You no-showed in Games 5 and 6 of the 2003 Eastern finals (playing injured, but still); the entire 2004 Eastern finals (Detroit still won); Game 7 of the 2005 NBA Finals; Games 5 and 6 of the 2006 Miami series; and Game 6 of the 2007 Cavs series. You inexplicably disappeared for the first four games of the 2008 Boston series. And I mistakenly thought you had passed away after Game 4 of the 2009 Lakers series. That's an inordinate amount of no-shows, no? I vote that we change your nickname back to "Chauncey."

Q:
Wait a second, if you thought Billups had disappeared during the L.A.
series, does that mean I'm off the hook for dumping his salary for
Iverson?
-- J. Dumars, Detroit

SG: Absolutely not. Billups had/has real basketball value as a veteran
point guard and leader, plus an extremely fair contract: $36.3 million
through 2011, then partially guaranteed in 2012. If Ray Allen was worth
Delonte West and the No. 5 pick two years ago, how could anyone say
Billups was worth a fading Iverson's expiring deal and that's it?
You're telling me Portland, Houston, Atlanta, Cleveland or Miami
couldn't have topped that offer? Don't play the "Chauncey wanted to go
home to Denver" card; that's insulting to your fans. And don't play the
"We needed to give Rodney Stuckey the car keys" card, because Rodney
Stuckey ain't that good. Bad trade. There were smarter ways to clear
money for the summers of 2009 and 2010. And if you're so desperate to
clear cap space, why extend Rip Hamilton's deal? So confusing. I remain
confused.

Q. When is Jack Nicholson gonna die already?
The guy is a freak of nature. He's been partying since the late '60s,
for god's sake. That's 40 years and counting! I want to be the No. 1
Celebrity Lakers Fan, and I want to be the last guy shown on the
JumboTron when they show all the celebs in the crowd. I won't even take
any acting jobs from November to June if it comes to that. This is
crazy. I've been waiting my turn this entire decade. I even made a
basketball movie with Ray Allen. What basketball movie has Jack made?
He shot some buckets in "Cuckoo's Nest" with a mute Indian dude? Big
deal. By the time I take over, I'm going to be too freaking old. This
sucks.
-- Denzel W., Los Angeles

SG: And then there's this: If Jack holds on for another few years, Denzel
might lose a little relevance and get passed by Leo DiCaprio. You know
what this reminds me of, actually? Prince Charles getting screwed with
the whole Queen Elizabeth/Prince William thing. By the time she goes,
it would just make more sense for William to take over. I personally
think Jack is indestructible. I was rereading one of the old "SNL"
books and it's easy to forget this now, but Jack was one of John
Belushi's favorite people to party with in the '70s. John Belushi! He
died in 1982! When Jack goes, I think it's going to be like the
Secretariat autopsy: They're going to cut him open and find out his
heart was three times the size of the average human heart.

Q:
Lemme ask you something: How many GMs were responsible for all four
Finals teams in a two-year span? No way the Lakers make it twice
without Pau Gasol. I made that one possible by accepting 30 cents on
the dollar for someone who immediately became one of the best 10-12
guys in basketball. No way Orlando makes it without Rafer Alston. I
made that one possible by agreeing to turn Kyle Lowry into a late
first-rounder in the worst draft in nine years when you can now buy a
late first-rounder for $200 on PayPal. And no way the Celtics win last
season unless I screwed things up to the point that they bottomed out
midway through the decade and gained enough assets to acquire KG and
Ray Allen. That's right baby, 4-for-4! I am the gift that keeps on
giving.
-- C. Wallace, Memphis

SG: Yes, you are. At the very least, you've earned a four-year deal to be an ESPN or TNT analyst when you get fired.

Q:
Isn't it weird that I control the destiny of the 2009 Lakers? Not Kobe
? me? Lamar Odom? Arguably the biggest NBA enigma of this decade, and
one of the most uniquely skilled forwards in NBA history? The former
franchise guy for the Los Angeles Clippers? The guy who caused Phil
Jackson to age to the point that he now looks like an animated
character? The guy who prompted a doctor to write an extended blog post explaining how my crazy addiction to candy might explain my erratic
play? The guy who blew my 2009 free-agent leverage by telling ESPN The
Magazine that I could never NOT live on the beach? How crazy is this? I
have to go; there's a Sweet Tarts sale at the 99 Cent Store in Redondo.
-- Lamar O, Manhattan Beach

SG: It's all true. You are the key to the 2009 Lakers. They need
double-doubles from you. They need you to post up Rashard Lewis and
Hedo Turkoglu and make Orlando pay for its lack of size. They need you
to fly out on shooters and contest open 3s. They need you to play with
passion for two straight weeks instead of every other game. They need
you to show up on the road. I have no idea if you will do any of those
things. Neither does anyone else.

Interesting footnote:
Five soon-to-be free agents in the 2009 Finals can swing their
financial destinies to alarming degrees. If the Magic win and Turkoglu
has a few big moments, then they'd have to pay him gobs of money. Same
for the Lakers and Odom. Trevor Ariza will earn the full midlevel with
a good enough series. Marcin Gortat could get overpaid with a big
performance (and might anyway). And Shannon Brown might be the single
best fit for the triangle of any random player we've seen since Brian
Shaw: He can make 3s, he's super-athletic, he can guard three
positions, he can handle the ball, he's a quality teammate and he's
tough as hell. Who knew? If he steps up in the Finals like he stepped
up in the other three rounds, that puts the Lakers in an impossible
position; they have $15 million committed next year to Derek Fisher,
Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic, only Brown is better than all of them.
What do you do? And what happens if a team with cap space like the
Zombie Sonics goes after him? And did I really just spend four
sentences in an NBA Finals preview on Shannon Brown?

Q: Come on, just get it over with.
-- A. Morrison, Los Angeles

SG: Really? This early? I was saving it.

Q: Yeah, just do it. We all know it's coming.
-- J. Redick, Orlando

SG: Fine, fine. You're right. Here we go ?

REDICK!!!!! MORRISON!!!!! It's the NBA Finals on ABC!!!!!!

Q:
Can you please talk about how much of an idiot you were for picking the
Cavs to cruise in the 2009 Eastern finals? By the way, you're an idiot.
-- Every Orlando fan

SG: Here's what I love about my job: hundreds of e-mails from Orlando fans
telling me I'm a moron for predicting that a minus-800 favorite would
win a playoff series easily. Come on. I can't remember a team making a
bigger collective jump in the middle of the playoffs than Orlando did
from Game 5 of the Boston series (their low point) through Game 6 of
the Cleveland series. And it wasn't just that Dwight Howard finally
started putting his 350-piece jigsaw puzzle together and played like a
superduperstar for the first time in his life. I'd argue Orlando
enjoyed one of the most remarkable shooting stretches in NBA history:
From Game 7 of the Boston series through Game 4 of the Cleveland
series, the Magic drained 55 of 119 3-pointers (47 percent). That's
impossible. If you had told me before the series, "Cleveland is going
to blow 20-point leads in three of the first five games, Dwight Howard
is going to make a mini-Leap, Orlando is going to put on a historic
shooting display, and Mike Brown is going to freeze like Rocky during
the last few seconds of the Drago-Creed fight," yeah, I would have
picked Orlando. But weren't those four pretty sizable reaches?

By
the way, how dare a Magic fan give me crap? You root for the Orlando
Magic! Were you even a fan three months ago? Back in late November,
Nick Friedell wrote on Yahoo!: "I've covered several games in Orlando
during the early part of the season, and there are always plenty of
good seats to be had. What surprises me more than anything, though, is
the general lack of enthusiasm from some of the crowds. For the most
part, the crowds I've seen at Magic games are flatter than a pancake.
Sure, there are some exciting moments, and, if asked, the fans are
usually willing to get out of their seats and cheer. But, if it wasn't
for the noise blaring from the speaker system, you would be able to
hear Stan Van Gundy barking out orders on almost every possession." The 2009 Orlando Magic: Our crowds are flatter than a pancake. Should Disney World premiere its Orlando Magic Bandwagon Ride during the Finals or just wait until this summer?

Q: Can you please talk me off the ledge?
-- Every Cleveland fan

SG: Sure. You came to the right place. I am an experienced sports loser who
had to go through sports rehab twice (getting healed by Super Bowl
XXXVI and the 2004 baseball playoffs) before realizing you need a
substantial shift in karma before a fan base believes in its "cursed"
team or its "cursed" city; then and only then will good things happen.
(FYI: This is the theme of my Red Sox book.) But you need some sort of
catalyst. For Red Sox fans, it was the Dave Roberts steal. That's when
we gave in. There's a grainy, "Blair Witch"-style clip of the steal on YouTube that I love and can't stop watching. It's just perfect. No
sound, nothing happening; just a shaky shot from some fan in the
bleachers. In the blink of an eye, suddenly Roberts is streaking across
the screen and barely beating the throw. The camera starts shaking.
Everyone celebrates. The franchise will never be the same; we just
don't know it yet. And that's one of the great things about sports:
Everything can change in five seconds, three seconds, even one second.
You just don't know.

I don't believe in curses or jinxes,
but I do believe that a franchise (or even a city of franchises) can
pass a point with its fans at which they expect bad things to happen --
always, without fail -- and the players almost get contaminated by that
negative energy. Sadly, there's no way to stop it; no pill to take, no
exorcism to be had. It has to happen organically. For Red Sox fans, it
was the Roberts steal. For Cleveland fans, Cubs fans and Bills fans, it
will be something else. But it WILL be something else. It's just the
law of averages. There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At
some point, things turn. They always do.

Q: I don't
even care if we win the title or lose it. My goal is to dress for every
Finals game like a cross between the manager of an elite strip joint, a
mafia don, a porn producer, Paul Bearer and Richard Lewis. Any other
suggestions?
-- S. Van Gundy, Orlando, Fla.

SG: Johnny Cash. You might want to work some Johnny Cash in there.

Q:
I keep getting crap about how we blew the Lakers series, how we didn't
have any inbounds plays, how I kept waiting to call timeouts, how I
didn't come up with a single adjustment, how my substitution patterns
were incomprehensible and everything else. Why doesn't anyone realize
that this was all part of my master plan ? to replace Mike Dunleavy as
the coach and GM of the Clippers? How else am I going to impress Donald
Sterling and get a $30 million deal to murder his franchise through the
mid-tens?
-- G. Karl, Denver

SG: I am
shuddering. That would be like the Bizarro "Godfather 2" to Dunleavy's
Bizarro "Godfather 1." By the way, we'll know George is serious about
wooing Sterling's favor when he changes his name to something Korean.
...


      Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline

From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Thu Jun  4 19:35:16 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ESPN.com: Sports Guy: Letters of the rich and famous (part 2 of 2)
Message-ID: <135775.3865.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

...




Q: What should I have done differently?
-- Mike Brown, Cleveland


SG: You mean, other than come up with offensive plays or a playbook? I will
never understand two things. First, why you didn't mix things up at all
: throw a zone at Orlando, try a zone press (which worked really well
in the regular season), go super-small when Howard was on the bench and
play LeBron at center; something, anything. You just let the Magic do
their thing and made no real attempt to throw them off. Perplexing. And
second, why did you insist on doubling Howard and leaving their
shooters open? One of the reasons I picked you to kill Orlando in my
now-infamous chat was because I thought you'd use 24 (and maybe even
30) fouls on Howard, single-team him, make him score 40 points a game
to beat you and stay home on their shooters. You did the opposite. I
will never in a million years figure out why. It was like watching
someone hitting on various female celebrities at a Hollywood party by
saying, "Hi, I'm a member of the paparazzi, I have no money, and I have
VD" and going down in flames over and over again but feeling like the
23rd time would be the charm. Again, perplexing.

The one
recurring theme in this playoffs: coaches' unwillingness to steer the
ship away from the iceberg even as the "DANGER! DANGER!" sign was going
off. We just covered Mike Brown. Doc Rivers played the same eight guys
the exact same way in the exact same style for seven straight Orlando
games; never changed a thing, never threw a curveball, never extended
his bench, never did anything ? and by Game 7, Orlando had the Celtics
mastered. Rick Adelman played the Lakers exactly the same pre-Yao and
post-Yao. Nate McMillan refused to go small against Houston or turn the
tempo up and got smoked. Chicago would have beaten Boston had Vinny Del
Negro gone small the whole time instead of out of desperation. And
George Karl barely moved during Denver's five-quarter implosion to end
the Lakers series; in fact, I think he's still standing there with his
hands in his pockets looking like he just caught a whiff of a
scorekeeper's fart.

One thing we did learn (something I
demand gets added to the rule book this summer): After the Cavs'
debacle against the Magic, Israeli reader Amos suggested that "No team
under 70 wins should be able to win the MVP Award, the Coach of the
Year Award and the Executive of the Year Award. Unless you had THAT
phenomenal of a season, then it's either your star, or your coach, or
your management that brought you there." Fantastic point. We should
have made this change when Steve Nash AND Bryan Colangelo won in 2005.

Q: What should I have done differently?
-- D. Ferry, Cleveland

SG: You mean other than trading Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract in
February when 20 teams were dying to save money and you had a chance to
turn a zero into a crunch-time guy? Besides that?

You
looked around at the playoff landscape, shrugged your shoulders and
said, "Yeah, we're good," even though you didn't have a backup center
or a true perimeter player with size other than LeBron. If you turned
Wally into Antawn Jamison and Brendan Haywood, that could have worked.
If you turned Wally, J.J. Hickson and a future No. 1 into Marcus Camby
and an expiring deal, that could have worked. If you turned Wally into
Richard Jefferson (whom the Bucks were trying to give away), that would
have worked. If you turned Wally and Pavlovic into Shaq and Matt Barnes
when Phoenix was desperately trying to shave money, that REALLY would
have worked. By doing nothing, you basically said, "We can win with
what we have." And you didn't. Note to Cavs fans: If you're looking for
a place to direct your anger and dismay, start here. Your front office
choked. Not only could Shaq have defended Dwight Howard without help,
he could have out-Tweeted him after every game. You were robbed.

Q:
Come on ? you really think I'm going to handle this Jameer Nelson thing
well? I'm irrational. I'm a head case. I'm only happy if I'm playing
35-40 minutes per game. I'm Rafer Alston.
-- R. Alston, Orlando

SG: All great points. My counter would be this: Jameer set the standard for
all "Most Supportive Injured Teammate" conduct in the first three
rounds. If he can come back, even for 10 minutes a game, that's just an
awesome story. Almost as good as Turkoglu closing in on the 100,000
mark for broken HD tuners.

Q: You keep writing that
LeBron has no help. What about me? I'm the only real celebrity sitting
courtside and rooting for the Orlando Magic in the Finals! It's
basically me, "The Fat Guy" Dennis Salvaggio, Minnie Mouse and the
fourth lead for "CSI: Miami." They're going to show me between 20 and
200 times per game in Games 3, 4 and 5. I won't be able to pick my
nose, eat, drink or really do anything other than sit there and smile
like a politician for two and a half hours. Honestly, I was really
bummed out about this whole thing until I remembered that I'm
approaching $1 billion in career earnings, I'm the greatest golfer
since Hogan and I'm married to a smoking-hot former nanny from Sweden.
I'm Tiger Woods. I'm Tiger Woods.
-- T. Woods, Florida

SG: One other reason why I don't feel bad for you: You're a sports
bigamist. As you explained in your monthly newsletter this week, "I'm
really torn about the NBA Finals. I grew up a die-hard Los Angeles
Lakers fan, but I have season tickets to Orlando Magic games.
Hopefully, it will be a great series." Here's a news flash for you,
Tiger: I'm a diehard Celtics fan who happens to be dumb enough to pay
for Clippers season tickets. You know who I'd root for in a
Celtics-Clippers Finals? The Celtics 10 million trillion katrillion
times over!!! It's not a debate. It's not even an inkling of a debate.
You're not the dude from "Big Love," Tiger. You don't get to straddle
the fence here. Pick a team.

Q: Can you tell me what the record is for hearty fake laughs at Jon Barry's jokes in a seven-game series?
-- E. Johnson, Los Angeles

SG: Fifty-two.

Q:
Not a question ? I just wanted to thank you for not bringing up the
fact that I asked Denver to buy me out so I could sign with a
contender, then the Nuggets made the West finals and I ended up on a
No. 8 seed that got swept by 16 points a game. I will now stick my head
into a preheated oven.
-- A. McDyess, Detroit

SG: You think you feel bad, Dice? Imagine being Marc Stein right now. He
probably typed 200,000 words this season wondering where you, Joe Smith
and Mikki Moore would end up, and the key addition to a 2009 contender
ended up being the throw-in in the Radmanovic-Morrison salary-dump
trade. Oooof. That reminds me ?
REDICK!!!!! MORRISON!!!!! It's the NBA Finals on ABC!!!!!!
Q:
You killed me for the Rashard Lewis contract. You murdered me. You said
I overpaid by $60 million. I guess I have one question for you: How do
you like me now? Oh, wait, I have another: How 'bout them
apples?????????
-- O. Smith, Orlando

SG: This is the single toughest NBA question of the decade. Can Lewis'
indefensible $110 million contract now be considered defensible thanks
to the events of the 2009 playoffs?

I can't tell you how
much time I spent trying (and failing) to figure out the Magic over
these past four weeks. I watched every minute of every one of their
past 14 playoff games. They knocked out my favorite team (Boston) in
Round 2 and my preseason pick (Cleveland) in Round 3. I kept waiting
for both teams to finish Orlando off; if anything, Orlando gained
strength as each series went along. (Note: It helped that, starting
with Game 6 of the Boston series, Stan Van Gundy went with the
unconventional move of playing his best five guys -- Howard, Lewis,
Turkoglu, Pietrus and either Lee or Alston -- as much as possible. Oh,
wait, that's totally conventional. You WANT to play your best guys as
much as possible. Forget I brought this up.) Everything peaked in the
two clinchers (Game 7 at Boston, Game 6 versus Cleveland) when the
Magic played two devastating games and blew away both teams. Now
they're a legitimate threat to win the title. I swear to God. Even I
wouldn't bet against them at this point. Mainly because I have nothing
left to bet. And also because I'm typing this column with two broken
thumbs, a black eye and a broken jaw.

Here's what we know:
Accident or not, Orlando's nucleus and mindset are perfect for the
current era. The slash-and-kick game is in vogue, 3-pointers are going
up ? I mean, you WANT a team that plays like this, and you're better
off playing smallball than any other style. Orlando has the perfect
"power forward" for the modern game, namely Lewis, a matchup nightmare
on one end and someone with enough size to bother most low-post players
on the other end. In the '80s, this couldn't have worked; he would have
had to guard McHale or Parish on Boston, Barkley or Moses on Philly,
Sampson or Hakeem on Houston and so on. In the '90s and early '00s,
once expansion diluted talent, it could have worked if anyone thought
of it. Then the '06 Suns and '07 Warriors proved you could contend by
going small.

The big difference between the '09 Magic and
everyone else before them: They can play smallball without getting
destroyed on the boards thanks to Howard. In their 19 playoff games so
far, they finished with more rebounds only six times; in the Boston
series, they were outrebounded in six of the seven games. But the Magic
were never outrebounded by more than eight boards; only three times
were they even outrebounded by seven or eight. That's why the Magic
don't have off nights. Teddy KGB would say they had alligator blood:
They hang around and hang around and hang around and you can never just
wipe out their chips. They're like the NBA's first "Moneyball" team in
this respect. Over 48 minutes, the percentages and numbers will usually
work in their favor.

For instance, the Lakers got killed by Denver in Game 4 for a
variety of aesthetic reasons (lack of energy, fired-up Nuggets team,
the Lakers already won the game they needed, etc.) and one
easy-to-understand reason: Denver crushed them on the boards by 20. You
get killed on the boards in a playoff game, you're going to lose.
Period. With Orlando, that variable has been removed. And if they're
making 3s, look out. In playoff games in which they were minus-2 in
rebounds or better, made at least nine 3s and shot 40-plus percent from
three, they were 6-0 and won by an average of 13.5 points. In a typical
series, they will play two games like that (and win both), which means
they only need to win two of the other five ? and because of that
alligator blood, the odds are with them.

Does this make
sense? Not really. It makes my head hurt and defies everything we ever
thought we had learned about playoff basketball: The team with the best
guy usually wins a series; defense wins championships; you live and die
by the 3 (and always, you die); and playoff experience matters more
than anything else. Not anymore. Throw that crap out the window. The
Magic are OK defensively; they don't have the best guy; they're living
by 3s; and they don't have much playoff experience. Again, my head
hurts.

So how do you beat them? For all the matchup
problems they create, you can't make them pay on the other end UNLESS
you have a center to handle Howard and a big forward who can torch
Lewis on one end and defend him on the other. The 2008 Celtics would
have killed this team. Repeat: killed them. But that team is gone. And
looking at this season and beyond, with that Celtics team getting older
and KG a question mark, where is the up-and-coming contender that's
going to make Magic fans say, "Crap, we can't beat those guys?" That
team doesn't exist, at least not in the East. Which means the Alligator
Blood Magic can keep contending unless Turkoglu signs somewhere else
and they can't replace him.

The question remains: Did Otis
Smith plan on this? When he overpaid Lewis, was he thinking, "I need to
find a shooter to spread the floor for Dwight?" Was he thinking, "I am
going to revolutionize basketball and I need Lewis to help me do it?"
Or was he just like a drunk guy at an auction throwing out some insane
dollars to make sure he won? I am leaning toward the third scenario,
and here's why: Smith basically gave away Trevor Ariza for Brian Cook
and Mo Evans last year. Does Cook make any sense for this '09 Magic
team? Of course not. Does Ariza? Of course. That's what makes me think
Smith stumbled into it. Revolutionary basketball geniuses don't throw
cap space away or give up building blocks for no reason.

--------------------------------


Sleepless in Seattle

My longtime editor and Seattle native Kevin Jackson has been so
appalled by the blossoming of Rashard Lewis that he demanded a
one-paragraph sidebar on behalf of every Sonics fan. Here it is:

It has been painful for me to even look at Rashard Lewis during the
'09 playoffs. Not only is Rashard finally playing like the versatile
swingman every Seattle fan envisioned when we mercifully plucked him
out of the green room as a tearful teenager in 1998 (and not the
unemotional second coming of Derrick McKey), he has turned into a
walking symbol of Seattle's lack of a basketball existence. The
decision to send Rashard to Orlando was the beginning of the deplorable
fire sale that allowed Bennett and Co. to move the team in the first
place. (Ray Allen played the same role for us in the '08 Finals, but we
were at least happy to see Ray finally win a title.) With
Rashard, it's a case of a guy finally doing for one team what he could
never do for our team with the added wrinkle that our team no longer
exists. And this without even mentioning Rashard's no-show in Seattle's
spirited 2005 playoff run, including that mysterious sprained toe. I
will now have Bill light me on fire.

--------------------------------

Q: Do you know if there are any job openings at ESPN? Or anywhere?
-- The creators of the LeBron/Kobe campaigns for VitaminWater and Nike

SG: (Cringing.)

Q:
Can you tell your readers that Magic-Lakers is actually a terrific
Finals for us? We have the No. 2 TV market (L.A.); the most popular,
polarizing and fascinating superstar since Wilt (Kobe); and a potential
superstar whom we can hype to another level (Dwight Howard). And it
should be a high-scoring and unpredictable Finals. How is this bad?
Everyone needs to shut up. By the way, if you write about our officials
again, I am going to have Stu Jackson blow up your car. With you in it.
-- D. Stern, Manhattan

SG: Noted.

Q:
Let's say I pull this off and we win a title. Does that push me past
Oscar and Jerry and make me the third-greatest guard ever?
-- K. Bryant, Los Angeles


SG: Yes. Absolutely. No question. Just know that your title window is
closing because of your odometer -- more than 1,100 games in 13 seasons
and 203 games (not including the 2009 Finals) over the last 19 months
alone -- and a group of contenders that will be better next season with
Garnett and Ginobili back, Portland and Chicago possibly making a leap,
and Cleveland undoubtedly getting LeBron more help. You will never have
a better chance at another ring than you do this month. And if you get
it, your place in history is secure.

Let's say you don't
get it. Let's say Orlando continues to ride the "Nobody believed in
us!!!!" wave and topples your Lakers for its first title. Let's say the
matchup troubles from the regular season (both Orlando wins) translate
to the postseason just like they did in the Cleveland-Orlando series.
That would mean the following things:

A. You never won a title when you were the best guy on your own team. An indisputable fact.

B.
You lost not one, not two, but THREE Finals in which you were the best
player on a favored team heading into the series: 2004 (versus
Detroit), 2008 (versus Boston) and 2009 (versus Orlando). You played
poorly by your standards in 2004 (23-4-3, 38 percent FG, 17 percent
3-point FG) and 2009 (26-5-5, 40.5 percent FG, 32 percent 3-point FG,
4.7 TOs); in deciding games those years, your team lost by 13 points
and 39 points. If history repeats itself in 2009, you won't be able to
recover historically. You'll be the guy who needed to ride Shaq's
coattails to win a title, and that's that.

Honestly, this
is one of the reasons I love basketball so much. Kevin Garnett's career
was altered by the 2008 Finals in a good way. Karl Malone's career was
altered in the 1997 and 1998 Finals in a bad way. Walt Frazier's career
was altered in the 1970 Finals in a good way. Clyde Drexler's career
was altered by the 1992 Finals in a bad way. You can come up with 25
superstars like that. A "fork in the road" moment, if you will. For
Kobe, we're here. Officially.

Q: So who are you picking??? Come on! Make a pick! Who are you taking?
-- D. Howard, Orlando

SG: You tell me, Dwight. How bad do you want this?

Q:
I want it. I really, really want it. I don't want to be the big happy
guy everyone knows from the Slam Dunk Contest and the Superman gimmick.
I don't want to be the guy everyone knows for his Mr. Universe
physique, the shaky free-throw shooting and the sarcastic "I can't
believe you just called that" smile. I don't want to be the guy
Kendrick Perkins defended without help in Round 2. I don't want to be
the guy you called "the worst great player ever" a few weeks ago. I
want to become the NBA's next big superstar. I want to be the next
Shaq. I want to be the guy who commands a double-team at all times. I
want to be the guy who slaps up a 26-16 in the Finals, protects the rim
and can't be stopped. I can be that guy. Bynum and Gasol aren't tough
enough to handle me. I can be that guy. Let me be that guy.
-- D. Howard, Orlando

SG: Hmmmmmmmm. I just don't think you're ready yet. Your team has just
enough "happy to be there" potential that it makes me nervous. And how
can you guys keep shooting 3s like that? I'm going with the Lakers in
six. Kobe is due. He is. You have plenty of time.

Q: You realize you're betting against God AND the "Nobody Believed In Us" Factor, right?
-- D. Howard, Orlando

SG: Crap.



      Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline

From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 16:44:37 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Update: Amare Will Be Traded, Just Not To Boston Apparently
Message-ID: <890846.86060.qm@web63101.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

"I just can't see the Suns wanting to end the Steve Nash era
at this point. Remember, they still need to sell tickets to a fan base
unhappy with last season's results and dealing with a tough economy."

If they like Nash, they'll LOVE Rondo.? Esp. w/Nash getting old...

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
Subject: Update: Amare Will Be Traded, Just Not To Boston Apparently
To: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>, "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 9:28 AM


Info below.
But, here's what we know.
- C's one of 10 teams interested in Amare.
- Suns want to extend Nash, so no room for Rondo.
- Suns would like Perk (or some such big) included.

My suggestion, expand the trade, a three or four team deal, 
where Rondo is dealt to Team C or D, for something the Suns want.
And include Perkins in the deal, as Amare would be starting any ways,
with a free agent big man, McDyess/Rasheed/etc. coming off the bench as
the backup center. Or, keep Perk, and use Rondo and the expirings to acquire the biggie the Suns want to be packaged with Allen.

Hopefully, Amare doesn't end up in Cleveland.
Ray

http://ktar.com/?sid=1175731&nid=624

I spent a lot of time on the show Tuesday talking about trade scenarios for Amare Stoudemire. One of them was a deal with the Boston Celtics in which the Suns might be able to land the talented point guard Rajon Rondo -- a player they once drafted. 

It's no secret that the Celtics like Stoudemire, they are one of about 10 teams that have shown interest in the power forward. And it's no secret that the Suns will be shopping Stoudemire hard once the NBA Finals are over. 

The Suns have no intention of giving Stoudemire a contract extension of which he is eligible for this summer and they certainly don't want to let him walk after next season when he has the right to opt out of his current contract. So Stoudemire will be dealt and there will be some good deals on the table to give STAT a new address. The Celtics will show interest and could put together some enticing packages. But it is unlikely that Stoudemire will be wearing green next year. 

First and foremost the Suns still want Steve Nash to be the point guard on this team and want to extend him another two years. Second, in any trade involving Stoudemire they would like to get another big back. The Celtics deal I discussed centered around Rondo and Ray Allen, two guards. So while I believe Rondo can be had for the right price, I just can't see the Suns wanting to end the Steve Nash era at this point. Remember, they still need to sell tickets to a fan base unhappy with last season's results and dealing with a tough economy.


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From jaims at pldtdsl.net  Thu Jun  4 20:26:28 2009
From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 04:26:28 +0800
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
In-Reply-To: <BLU102-W6D65E728098266484B429D94A0@phx.gbl>
References: <371581.55611.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>	<25EC3BD0-4AA8-4A8
	6-8F4C-9C9B4A901E59@verizon.net> 
	<200906031350.n53Dop44012528@artemis.afrc.af.mil> 
	<BLU102-W6D65E728098266484B429D94A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000001c9e552$bd709200$3851b600$@net>

i agree. he's the cornerstone now of the celtics.  unless, cp3 is the one
involved, he's the untouchable one.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Cecil Wright
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:59 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th


Rondo is a building block for the future.  Why would we want to involve him
in any trade speculation is sheer lunacy.  Doe the names Chauncey Billups
and Joe Johnson ring a bell?  Rondo has improved each year and I see no
reason why it would stop now.  And the thought of having a rookie come in
and run this offense...well I'll just say that it would be very difficult
for a youngster to wave Paul Pierce away.

 

This team, as was mentioned in previous messages, took Orlando to 7 games
without a key player.  Rondo's play may have slipped a little in the series
since he had to play so much in the previous series to help get us there.
So now let's trade him and give the keys to an unproven rookie???

 

Cecil


 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:50:49 -0400
> Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
> 
> Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've
probably gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.
> 
> As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of John Lyell
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years KG & ray are gone and Paul on 
> his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have 
> we heard if he was having surgery?
> 
> Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too 
> inconsistent currently
> 
> 
> The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent 
> years
> 
> I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen
> 
> We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to 
> come to Boston, and never have
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE. You trade 2/5ths of the 
> > best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another 
> > player who happens to play the same position as your best player. 
> > Does that make sense? And then hope someone's available at 14 who's 
> > mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship? That 
> > sounds like a good idea to you? Why not just roll with the best 
> > starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
> >> Barbosa/14th
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> >> You always have to consider moves to
> >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> >> make us younger, and better.
> >>
> >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >>
> >>
> >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> >>
> >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> >> intriguing proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> >> so rapidly.
> >>
> >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> >>
> >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> >> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> >> for next season.
> >>
> >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> >> substantial in a deal.
> >>
> >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> >>
> >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> >> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> >>
> >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> >> Marbury.
> >>
> >> Here's the original source: <a
href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=
315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
> >> ">
> >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> >> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
We are your photos. Share us now with Windows Live Photos.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  5 02:18:43 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 19:18:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <783856.87912.qm@web56705.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I cant believe I am responding to a rumor of a trade that never will happen (or hope will never happen), that said on any thought of trading Rondo, you do not do it unless you get a legit 1st or second option "game changer" for a championship contender. Because that is what he is as a 3rd year pro, at the PG position to boot. He is not that consistently yet but darn close. You do not trade him for a combination of a nice starter or role players unless Rondo is deemed a total head case, team disruptor (not) and have a plan to acquire a game changing replacement. 

At this point the C's are a legit championship contender and should be, without major injuries (knock on wood)) for a couple of years, any move at this point cannot be made that jeopardizes this window for potential that may not be realized. Yes that is the balancing act the Ainge has to play in doing what he can to maximize this window and also keep an eye in making any future rebuilding project a short one.

You can make the case for replacing any one of the big 3 for such a hypothetical combination of players but you have to do so very carefully after weighing all the factors impacting our current window while looking at the business side of the current team and also looking at the team going forward. 

A critical off-season in many ways and should be interesting to see how Ainge and Co. play it with the cards they have.

Go C's

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net> wrote:

From: Jaims <jaims at pldtdsl.net>
Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 4:26 PM

i agree. he's the cornerstone now of the celtics.? unless, cp3 is the one
involved, he's the untouchable one.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Cecil Wright
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:59 PM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th


Rondo is a building block for the future.? Why would we want to involve him
in any trade speculation is sheer lunacy.? Doe the names Chauncey Billups
and Joe Johnson ring a bell?? Rondo has improved each year and I see no
reason why it would stop now.? And the thought of having a rookie come in
and run this offense...well I'll just say that it would be very difficult
for a youngster to wave Paul Pierce away.

 

This team, as was mentioned in previous messages, took Orlando to 7 games
without a key player.? Rondo's play may have slipped a little in the series
since he had to play so much in the previous series to help get us there.
So now let's trade him and give the keys to an unproven rookie???

 

Cecil


 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:50:49 -0400
> Subject: RE: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Ben Gordon is a worse defender than Eddie House.
> 
> Ben Gordon is the LAST thing we need on this team. The Cs would've
probably gotten passed Chicago sooner if they'd gone at Gordon more often.
> 
> As for the other fantasy team proposal...hogwash.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of John Lyell
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:35 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
Amare/Barbosa/14th
> 
> Definitely rolling the dice. In 2 years KG & ray are gone and Paul on 
> his last legs. Who knows if perk can get by this nagging injury. Have 
> we heard if he was having surgery?
> 
> Will Rajon work on his perimeter and charity stripe game? Too 
> inconsistent currently
> 
> 
> The draft is always a crap shoot, but danny has done well in recent 
> years
> 
> I would like us to go after Ben Gordon , but it likely Will not happen
> 
> We have not done well in free agency, players just aren't lining up to 
> come to Boston, and never have
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yeah, but this makes us considerable WORSE. You trade 2/5ths of the 
> > best starting five in the league for an overpaid 6th man and another 
> > player who happens to play the same position as your best player. 
> > Does that make sense? And then hope someone's available at 14 who's 
> > mature and talented enough to lead us to a championship? That 
> > sounds like a good idea to you? Why not just roll with the best 
> > starting five in the league for another year and take your chances?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> >> Subject: Re: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/ 
> >> Barbosa/14th
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:17 PM
> >> You always have to consider moves to
> >> make the team better.If Amare is healthy this move could
> >> make us younger, and better.
> >>
> >> We could get a point like Ty Lawson , Jrue Holiday &
> >> Jonny Flynn, Patrick Mills, or Brandon Jennings at 14.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> >> To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>;
> >> Celtics Are Idiots List <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:49:08 PM
> >> Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For
> >> Amare/Barbosa/14th
> >>
> >>
> >> Over at one of the fan boy sites with Nazi moderators (aka
> >> Celtics blog), they are bashing this rumored trade --
> >> Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th -- which allegedly
> >> originated out of KTAR.com in Phoenix.
> >>
> >> But, frankly, I find it to be a very interesting, even
> >> intriguing proposal, which shouldn't be dismissed, quite
> >> so rapidly.
> >>
> >> Reasons for making the trade from a Celtics perspective:
> >>
> >> 1. Amare provides insurance for either KG or Perkins, both
> >> likely coming off of surgery, and with status/health issues
> >> for next season.
> >>
> >> 2. If KG is healthy, Amare starts at center, freeing up
> >> Perkinms to backup or to be used to acquire something
> >> substantial in a deal.
> >>
> >> 3. It's a deep draft for PGs with Ricky Rubio, Tyreke
> >> Evans, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Jrue
> >> Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Jeff Teague, Darren
> >> Collison and Patrick Mills all projected to go in the first
> >> round. So, a young, cheap (not up for extension) quality
> >> replacement for Rondo is available at 14.
> >>
> >> 4. Rondo inhabits Rajon World. It's a possibility, that
> >> signing him to an extension may be much more difficult than
> >> people think, with Rajon, possessed of extreme cockiness,
> >> apparently over-valuing himself.
> >>
> >> 5. Barbosa is a great third guard off the bench, and gives
> >> the Celtics a quality scorer to go with the re-signed(?)
> >> Marbury.
> >>
> >> Here's the original source: <a
href="http://www.17banners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=
315%3Arondo-and-allen-to-phoenix&catid=3%3Anewsflash&Itemid=1 
> >> ">
> >> Celtics 17</a>: Latest rumor out of Phoenix: Ray Allen
> >> and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, and
> >> the 14th overall pick. Source: sports.ktar.com
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is entirely speculation, but it is being
> >> talked about (Gambo & Ash) on the radio as I write this.
> >> No sources mentioned, so take it as such. They did mention
> >> that Boston initiated the proposal, and that the Suns have
> >> not made a comment on it as of yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
We are your photos. Share us now with Windows Live Photos.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From green00333444 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  5 14:44:40 2009
From: green00333444 at yahoo.com (Green 00)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 07:44:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hmmmm Interesting Trade Rumor: Rondo/Allen For Amare/Barbosa/14th
Message-ID: <598252.35060.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


> A critical off-season in many ways and should be
> interesting to see how Ainge and Co. play it with the cards
> they have.

Absolutely correct, and it's easy to predict the outcome...

1. Ainge will sign a couple of below average free agents for cheap money.  

2. The starting 5 will play big minutes all season and a key member will get injured late in the winter or early spring.

3. The team will put on a valiant playoff run and fall short of making it out of the East.

The pessimists historical perspective:

2008 == 1986
2009 == 1987
2010 == 1988

The optimists historical perspective:

2008 == 1984
2009 == 1985
2010 == 1986!!!

Charles



      


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  5 19:13:40 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: rondo
In-Reply-To: <mailman.155.1244213093.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.155.1244213093.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <805276.79692.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

a thousand times no on trading rondo unless you're getting deron williams or t parker or cp3 back. 

on trading allen, i don't approve at all, but i can see why he might be worth trading, particularly if we think he won't sign for much smaller money after his contract is up. but trade rondo? no way. 

other than a straight up for the other top 3 pgs, i can't think of how trading rondo can make us better. 

funny, the stubborn comments about rondo--have you not heard that amare is a bad, sulky teammate, which is why they're shopping him. 

rondo has become one of my all-time favorite celts. please, no.  


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jun  5 22:51:53 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:51:53 -0400
Subject: rondo
In-Reply-To: <805276.79692.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090605185153.L9C0O.205852.imail@eastrmwml33>

Couldn't agree more.  Point guards and centers are two of the toughest positions to find as cornerstones for a franchise.  Fortunately, we have both of them, and you don't trade them unless it's for someone as good or better.
That deal would never happen anyway.
---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> a thousand times no on trading rondo unless you're getting deron williams or t parker or cp3 back. 
> 
> on trading allen, i don't approve at all, but i can see why he might be worth trading, particularly if we think he won't sign for much smaller money after his contract is up. but trade rondo? no way. 
> 
> other than a straight up for the other top 3 pgs, i can't think of how trading rondo can make us better. 
> 
> funny, the stubborn comments about rondo--have you not heard that amare is a bad, sulky teammate, which is why they're shopping him. 
> 
> rondo has become one of my all-time favorite celts. please, no.  
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Jun  6 01:33:14 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:33:14 -0700
Subject: rondo
In-Reply-To: <20090605185153.L9C0O.205852.imail@eastrmwml33>
References: <20090605185153.L9C0O.205852.imail@eastrmwml33>
Message-ID: <A177CB9C-8856-4BF4-AFDD-CF32B3BD3254@verizon.net>

Oddly enough the teams left have avg points, and the top points other  
than chauncy were gone, or didn't even make it? Other than howard  
there aren't many dominant big men.

Is shaq a FA? Imagine him going up against kobe as a Celtic!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:51 PM, <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> Couldn't agree more.  Point guards and centers are two of the  
> toughest positions to find as cornerstones for a franchise.   
> Fortunately, we have both of them, and you don't trade them unless  
> it's for someone as good or better.
> That deal would never happen anyway.
> ---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> a thousand times no on trading rondo unless you're getting deron  
>> williams or t parker or cp3 back.
>>
>> on trading allen, i don't approve at all, but i can see why he  
>> might be worth trading, particularly if we think he won't sign for  
>> much smaller money after his contract is up. but trade rondo? no way.
>>
>> other than a straight up for the other top 3 pgs, i can't think of  
>> how trading rondo can make us better.
>>
>> funny, the stubborn comments about rondo--have you not heard that  
>> amare is a bad, sulky teammate, which is why they're shopping him.
>>
>> rondo has become one of my all-time favorite celts. please, no.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Sat Jun  6 02:15:37 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:15:37 -0400
Subject: rondo
In-Reply-To: <A177CB9C-8856-4BF4-AFDD-CF32B3BD3254@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090605221537.HXEAX.140041.imail@eastrmwml10>

I bet Shaq would drool at the idea.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> Oddly enough the teams left have avg points, and the top points other  
> than chauncy were gone, or didn't even make it? Other than howard  
> there aren't many dominant big men.
> 
> Is shaq a FA? Imagine him going up against kobe as a Celtic!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:51 PM, <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > Couldn't agree more.  Point guards and centers are two of the  
> > toughest positions to find as cornerstones for a franchise.   
> > Fortunately, we have both of them, and you don't trade them unless  
> > it's for someone as good or better.
> > That deal would never happen anyway.
> > ---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> a thousand times no on trading rondo unless you're getting deron  
> >> williams or t parker or cp3 back.
> >>
> >> on trading allen, i don't approve at all, but i can see why he  
> >> might be worth trading, particularly if we think he won't sign for  
> >> much smaller money after his contract is up. but trade rondo? no way.
> >>
> >> other than a straight up for the other top 3 pgs, i can't think of  
> >> how trading rondo can make us better.
> >>
> >> funny, the stubborn comments about rondo--have you not heard that  
> >> amare is a bad, sulky teammate, which is why they're shopping him.
> >>
> >> rondo has become one of my all-time favorite celts. please, no.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  6 12:40:48 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 05:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: rondo
Message-ID: <283620.77165.qm@web63107.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

buried in one of these recent Rondo posts was reference to this great Jackie MacMullan article about Rondo.?? Miss her writing - she is lost in the shuffle at espn...

http://tinyurl.com/csteu2

Ellie

--- On Fri, 6/5/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: rondo
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 10:15 PM

I bet Shaq would drool at the idea.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> Oddly enough the teams left have avg points, and the top points other? 
> than chauncy were gone, or didn't even make it? Other than howard? 
> there aren't many dominant big men.
> 
> Is shaq a FA? Imagine him going up against kobe as a Celtic!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:51 PM, <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > Couldn't agree more.? Point guards and centers are two of the? 
> > toughest positions to find as cornerstones for a franchise.???
> > Fortunately, we have both of them, and you don't trade them unless? 
> > it's for someone as good or better.
> > That deal would never happen anyway.
> > ---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> a thousand times no on trading rondo unless you're getting deron? 
> >> williams or t parker or cp3 back.
> >>
> >> on trading allen, i don't approve at all, but i can see why he? 
> >> might be worth trading, particularly if we think he won't sign for? 
> >> much smaller money after his contract is up. but trade rondo? no way.
> >>
> >> other than a straight up for the other top 3 pgs, i can't think of? 
> >> how trading rondo can make us better.
> >>
> >> funny, the stubborn comments about rondo--have you not heard that? 
> >> amare is a bad, sulky teammate, which is why they're shopping him.
> >>
> >> rondo has become one of my all-time favorite celts. please, no.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Sun Jun  7 14:22:04 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:22:04 -0400
Subject: Garrett Temple who?
Message-ID: <E2362845.7A16.44D4.9B12.C0B13FD78311@aol.com>

It starts with G and it ends with T.? Yes, folks,? little known?
Mr. Temple (6 ft. 5 inch Sr. guard from LSU) is a defensive?
specialist who has caught Danny?s eye.? You won?t hear his name
or see him?listed among the top 60 draftees on sites such as
nbadraft.net?due to his limited offense and ?elderly? age for 
the draft. ?But you may hear Stern announce, ?And with the 
58th pick?in the 2009 draft, the Boston Celtics select 
GARRETT TEMPLE.? ??

Other possibilities: guards Jermaine Taylor (who will likely be?
drafted prior to #58) and Jeremy Pargo.? Longshorts:? Forwards?
Taj Gibson and Leo Lyons. ?

As for the Phoenix trade, sure Phoenix would love to rid?
themselves of the problematic but talented Amare, and?
sure Danny along with 29 other GMs/Directors of Bball Ops?
would love to acquire the problematic but talented Amare,?
especially with our team's private concerns over Garnett?
returning to 100%, ?Perk's chronic shoulder condition, and
Powe's possible career-ending 4th major knee surgery.

The problem is that Phoenix will almost certainly exercise their?
team option with the aging Nash, so the Rondo inclusion in such ?
a trade makes little sense for them and maybe even for us at?
this time.? But since the Celtics have become the black flower?
of the sports garden ... luxury tax prison... 34 yr. old?
Ray Allen is another story.? He and his $19.8 mill contract?
will be shopped around vigorously for younger vets who can?
provide immediate help this coming season at positions of need.

Meanwhile, these Celt listers continue to dazzle me with their?
STAGE MOM mentality ... their optimism and prejudice toward?
their own.? Wouldn?t trade THE LITTLE DICTATOR (the attitudinal,?
problematic, stubborn, surly, inconsistent kid with the elastic?
arms, Rondo) for anyone but Chris Paul,?Deron Williams, or?
Derrick Rose? ?

Fine.? Likely these same ultra loyal posters who flap their wings
in vain, wouldn?t trade:

Pierce for LeBron
Ray Allen for Kobe
Perk for Dwight Howard

So, send in the clowns.? Oops, don?t bother. they?re here.

Egg

From martind42 at cox.net  Sun Jun  7 15:54:17 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:54:17 -0400
Subject: Garrett Temple who?
In-Reply-To: <E2362845.7A16.44D4.9B12.C0B13FD78311@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090607115417.TTNB0.220062.imail@eastrmwml44>

I'll take the little dictator any day, any time. There are only three pgs I'd take over him, and that's with reservations. And,  Powe will be back, despite you're glass is half full mentality (No, you are in the" no glass at all" camp). No where did I ever read that his injury was career ending, other than you're posts. And since when did you become  clairvoyant?
You know for sure Ainge is going to draft Temple?  But lets say for gits and shiggles that he does?  Maybe it's because Danny is oneof the best at selecting late in the draft. Of course, you'd never admit that, just like you've never acknowldedged Danny for being GM of the year and bringing us a championship (might of had 2 if it weren't for injuries).  It just kills you when we are so optomistic.  I love it!
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> It starts with G and it ends with T.? Yes, folks,? little known?
> Mr. Temple (6 ft. 5 inch Sr. guard from LSU) is a defensive?
> specialist who has caught Danny?s eye.? You won?t hear his name
> or see him?listed among the top 60 draftees on sites such as
> nbadraft.net?due to his limited offense and ?elderly? age for 
> the draft. ?But you may hear Stern announce, ?And with the 
> 58th pick?in the 2009 draft, the Boston Celtics select 
> GARRETT TEMPLE.? ??
> 
> Other possibilities: guards Jermaine Taylor (who will likely be?
> drafted prior to #58) and Jeremy Pargo.? Longshorts:? Forwards?
> Taj Gibson and Leo Lyons. ?
> 
> As for the Phoenix trade, sure Phoenix would love to rid?
> themselves of the problematic but talented Amare, and?
> sure Danny along with 29 other GMs/Directors of Bball Ops?
> would love to acquire the problematic but talented Amare,?
> especially with our team's private concerns over Garnett?
> returning to 100%, ?Perk's chronic shoulder condition, and
> Powe's possible career-ending 4th major knee surgery.
> 
> The problem is that Phoenix will almost certainly exercise their?
> team option with the aging Nash, so the Rondo inclusion in such ?
> a trade makes little sense for them and maybe even for us at?
> this time.? But since the Celtics have become the black flower?
> of the sports garden ... luxury tax prison... 34 yr. old?
> Ray Allen is another story.? He and his $19.8 mill contract?
> will be shopped around vigorously for younger vets who can?
> provide immediate help this coming season at positions of need.
> 
> Meanwhile, these Celt listers continue to dazzle me with their?
> STAGE MOM mentality ... their optimism and prejudice toward?
> their own.? Wouldn?t trade THE LITTLE DICTATOR (the attitudinal,?
> problematic, stubborn, surly, inconsistent kid with the elastic?
> arms, Rondo) for anyone but Chris Paul,?Deron Williams, or?
> Derrick Rose? ?
> 
> Fine.? Likely these same ultra loyal posters who flap their wings
> in vain, wouldn?t trade:
> 
> Pierce for LeBron
> Ray Allen for Kobe
> Perk for Dwight Howard
> 
> So, send in the clowns.? Oops, don?t bother. they?re here.
> 
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Jun  7 17:13:07 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:13:07 EDT
Subject: Ben Maller's NBA rumors 
Message-ID: <d0e.4b7cfb31.375d4f23@aol.com>

 
Ben Maller's NBA rumors
 
by FOXSports.com 

 


 
 
_Suns could trade Stoudemire, Shaq and Richardson_ 
(http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/06/04/20090604spt-suns.html) 



There has been plenty of trade speculation and rumors involving Amare  
Stoudemire lately. But unlike the week of the February trade deadline, none of  
this talk actually has involved the Suns. Reports that the Suns have been  
engaged in trade talks that would send Stoudemire to Boston or Washington are 
 conjecture. They also probably are not the last of trade rumors for 
Phoenix,  which is just as apt to move Shaquille O'Neal or Jason Richardson. 
"There's a  lot of stuff flying around out there that has no basis," Suns General 
Manager  Steve Kerr said. "There's just a ton of speculation but there 
really is nothing  substantial going on. "With most of these deals being 
speculated about, I  haven't even had a conversation with the opposing team. I read 
this stuff and  laugh." -- Arizona Republic  
_Is  Rambis too pricey for Kings?_ 
(http://www.sacbee.com/voisin/story/1921025.html) 
In words whispered behind the closed doors at Arco, Kurt Rambis is the 
choice  of Petrie and almost everyone else within the organization, and is 
highly  regarded by the Maloofs. A popular player during his days in Sacramento, 
he has  interviewed on three previous occasions. During his most recent 
conversation, he  completely wowed the brothers. But here's the problem. Refer 
to the above  reference to escrow and economy. Follow the money trail. Rambis 
is in a very  different place. He's in L.A., with the Lakers, seated 
securely alongside Phil  Jackson, and considered a viable choice as the 
organization's next head coach.  Why leave all that to coach the league's worst team 
with only two years'  security? NBA coaching history is brutally consistent. 
Those hired by lottery  teams invariably are fired after one or two seasons, 
with their replacements  left to reap the benefits. -- Sac Bee  
_Raptors' Bosh  preparing for free agency_ 
(http://www.thestar.com/article/645994) 
The way the 25-year-old Bosh was talking yesterday - when he shot down talk 
 of a contract extension this summer - he is preparing for free agency in 
2010,  when he'll be in line to sign the biggest deal of his career. While he 
set the  odds at "good" that he'll be back in Toronto after next summer - 
the Raptors,  after all, can pay him more than any other team - it's hardly a 
guarantee. And  so Bryan Colangelo, the general manager, is in the midst of 
making a  tenure-defining read of the tea leaves, to either bank on Bosh 
re-signing next  summer or to engineer an asset-salvaging trade before Bosh 
leaves for zilch.  -- Toronto Star  
_Orlando's Gortat to Mavericks?_ 
(http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/06/magic-big-man-might-be-good-fit-for-the.html) 
Magic star Dwight Howard's backup will be available this summer, and Marcin 
 Gortat is a big man who might fit well with the Mavs. Gortat will be a  
restricted free agent, but there's been speculation that the Magic won't be 
able  to keep him for financial reasons. Hedo Turkoglu is expected to opt out 
of his  contract, and re-signing him would push Orlando into luxury-tax 
territory for  the first time. Gortat will get at least a hefty chunk of 
somebody's mid-level  exception, and the Mavs would be wise to consider investing 
in him, especially  if they trade Erick Dampier. -- Dallas Morning News  
_Warriors dealing Stephen Jackson?_ 
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/05/SPTK181547.DTL) 
The Dallas Morning News suggested that the Warriors might trade Stephen  
Jackson. The Warriors' link to trading for Chris Bosh hasn't slowed, despite  
Toronto saying its goal is to keep the power forward. And, every couple of  
weeks, Baron Davis is reportedly offered back to Golden State. -- SF  
Chronicle  
_Celts have made Ray Allen available to trade?_ 
(http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=12861) 
Off the record, we have several sources telling us that Ray Allen is, 
indeed,  on the block. It's easy to make the leap, as the Celtics have managed to 
develop  some nice young talent around their Big Three while also managing 
to win a  championship. They might have even repeated had Kevin Garnett been 
healthy. It's  not a stretch to say the Celtics would part with Allen, who 
has an ending  contract next season, if they could add another top young 
player to the mix. On  the record we have an added wrinkle - one that we 
thought to be highly unlikely  until we found it reported with a quote attributed 
to Celtics GM Danny Ainge. It  seems the Celtics are willing to package 
Rajon Rondo with Allen to make the  right deal happen. There is definitely some 
truth to the idea that the Celtics  would move Ray Allen - and maybe even 
Rajon Rondo - if the right deal came  along. As for the Suns coming up with 
the right deal, that seems highly  unlikely.-- Hoopsworld.com  
_Blazers to give Greg Oden plenty of coaching this summer_ 
(http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=124418030527213700) 
Greg Oden is going to get plenty of coaching attention this summer. That's  
according to Trail Blazer General Manager Kevin Pritchard, who says 
assistant  coach Bill Bayno will be specially assigned to work with the 7-foot 
center. "We  feel good about Bayno working with Greg," Pritchard says. "It's the 
first summer  (Bayno) will have worked with (Oden), and that will be 
important. But we're not  opposed to bringing in an expert on bigs to work with 
him. We haven't arranged  for it yet, but we're starting to get into that." 
Oden is spending the summer in  Columbus, Ohio, where he has been joined the 
past week in workout sessions by  teammate Jerryd Bayless. Next week, 
Pritchard says, the pair will move on to  Phoenix to work out together under the 
direction of Portland strength and  conditioning coach Bobby Medina and 
assistant coach Kaleb Canales. --  Portland Tribune  
_Oklahoma's Blake Griffin working out for Clippers_ 
(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/06/blake-griffin-to-work-out-with-clippers-.html) 
Former Oklahoma forward Blake Griffin will work out Saturday for what many  
expect to be his future NBA team, the Los Angeles Clippers. The NBA Draft  
doesn't start until June 25, but the Clippers have the No. 1 pick and they  
haven't exactly treated their draft strategy as an intelligence briefing.  
"Clearly, we're taking Blake Griffin," Clippers General Manager and Coach 
Mike  Dunleavy told The Times as soon as he learned his team had the No. 1 
draft pick.  Griffin will work out at the Clippers' training facility in Playa 
Vista and will  speak to the media afterward. -- LA Times  
_Pacers' Dunleavy has 'minor' hip procedure_ 
(http://www.indystar.com/article/20090605/SPORTS04/906050346/1004/SPORTS/Pacers++Dunleavy+has++minor++hip+p
rocedure) 
Indiana Pacers guard Mike Dunleavy underwent a "minor" arthroscopic 
procedure  on his left hip Thursday. The procedure, performed in Boston, was to 
clean up a  "long-standing injury." -- Indy Star  
_Stern: NBA has no plans to add advertising on uniforms_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/06/05/nelson_gets_to_the_point/) 
David Stern also said that because of the economic situation, league 
revenues  will be down "maybe as much as 10 percent" next season. He said that 
while some  WNBA teams will earn revenue with advertising on their uniforms 
this upcoming  season, the NBA had no plans of doing that. -- Boston Globe  
_Devin Brown chooses to stay with New Orleans_ 
(http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-43/124417935044810.xml&coll=1) 
Hornets reserve guard Devin Brown has exercised his player option for next  
season, meaning he likely will return to the team. Brown earned $998,398 
last  season, and his salary escalates to $1.1 million next season, as per 
terms of  the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement. Brown's decision to 
exercise his  option gives the Hornets 11 players under contract with a total 
salary of $77.5  million. No other Hornets are believed to have player options 
for next season.  -- New Orleans Times-Picayune  
_Curry, Henderson impress coaches at Bobcats workout_ 
(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bobcats/story/763031.html) 
Davidson's Stephen Curry and Duke's Gerald Henderson were impressive 
Thursday  - maybe too impressive to end up Charlotte Bobcats. After Curry and 
Henderson  worked out for the team, coach Larry Brown said he doubts either one 
will be  available when the Bobcats select 12th overall in the June 25 
draft. That's  probably a given for Curry, who recently got feedback he could go 
as high as  third. He wowed Brown and others around the league during drills 
at last week's  NBA Combine in Chicago, and reinforced that impression 
Thursday. Henderson might  be a more realistic target and could fill a need at 
shooting guard. His jump  shot still needs work, but that's never been a 
deal-breaker for Brown. --  Charlotte Observer  
_Monta Ellis could move back to off-guard spot?_ 
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/05/SPTK181547.DTL) 
The consensus is that the Warriors need either a point guard to spell Monta 
 Ellis or to allow him to move back to his natural off-guard spot. The 
company  line has been that Ellis can become a true point guard, but that hasn't 
stopped  the rumor mill from churning at a high-speed pace. -- SF Chronicle 
  
_Celts' Marbury plans off-season workouts_ 
(http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/06/05/nelson_gets_to_the_point/) 
Stephon Marbury attended the game, disappointed that he was here as a  
spectator and not a player. "I wanted to see the game in the mind frame that I'm 
 in right now," said the free agent guard, via e-mail. "I came to Boston 
because  I wanted to be on this stage. Being that it didn't happen I wanted to 
see it for  myself by watching the best two teams go head-to-head. "I begin 
my workouts on  the 15th [of June] full throttle until we start [training 
camp]. Seeing the  Finals in this frame of mind is the best because there is 
something to push for  next year." -- Boston Globe  
_David Stern: NBA luxury tax will remain in place_ 
(http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-43/124417987474800.xml&coll=1) 
Although several teams have taken a hit financially, Commissioner David 
Stern  said Thursday the NBA has no plans to eliminate the luxury tax until the 
economy  recovers. With his team's player payroll projected to exceed $76 
million,  Hornets owner George Shinn could have to pay a luxury tax bill of 
more than $5  million next summer. The Hornets were one of the 12 teams that 
received loans  from the league this spring. Since 2003, 17 of the league's 
30 teams have  borrowed a combined $2 billion since the league began 
establishing a line of  credit for loans used by teams. "There's a difference 
between choosing to and  having a need to," Stern said. -- New Orleans 
Times-Picayune  
_Thunder guard Earl Watson changes agents_ 
(http://newsok.com/thunder-notebook-earl-watson-changes-agencies/article/3375209?custom_click=pod_headline_nb
a-thunder) 
Earl Watson has changed sports agencies, leaving agent Dan Fegan and BEST  
Basketball to join Bill Duffy at BDA Sports Management. Watson grew 
frustrated  last season with his situation as a member of the 23-win Thunder and was 
 believed to be disappointed in his agent's handling of the matter. Watson 
never  publicly said he desired to be traded but did say at the end of the 
season that  he doesn't expect to return. "You never know, this business is 
incredible,"  Watson said in April. "But going into the last year of my deal, 
business-wise  you become an attractive contract. And for the last month I 
haven't been  playing. So why would I be here?" Watson, who turns 30 on June 
12, is owed $6.6  million next season. -- Oklahoman  
_Shavlik Randolph done with Blazers?_ 
(http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=124418030527213700) 
The Blazers have four free agents, including forward Channing Frye, who is  
restricted. It's unlikely forward Michael Ruffin or center-forward Raef 
LaFrentz  - who will probably retire - will be back. That leaves forward 
Shavlik Randolph,  who played sparingly last season and will likely be looking for 
a new perch on  which to roost. -- Portland Tribune  
_No Memphis visit planned for Rubio_ 
(http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/the_memphis_edge/2009/06/no-memphis-visit-planned-for-rubio.html) 
The Grizzlies have not scheduled a workout/meeting in Memphis with  
18-year-old Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio. A team insider said the Griz were  
unaware of Rubio's exact plans - whether he would work out for any NBA team or  
simply arrive in the U.S. for the draft. -- Memphis Commercial Appeal  
_USC freshman DeMar DeRozan works out for Warriors_ 
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/05/SPTK181547.DTL) 
Two days after Louisville wing Terrence Williams said the Warriors are  
interested in selecting him in the June 25 draft, they worked out another wing, 
 USC freshman DeMar DeRozan on Thursday. The Warriors will also evaluate  
Louisville wing Earl Clark and Wake Forest's James Johnson as part of a  
six-player workout Saturday. Arizona power forward Jordan Hill will work out  
individually next Friday. It all makes for an interesting start to the workout 
 portion of the pre-draft evaluations for the Warriors, as they're already 
loaded  at wing. -- SF Chronicle  
_Knicks +200 to land LeBron?_ 
(http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/05/losers-lovable-prop-bet/) 
With LeBron James facing free agency, speculation is heating up regarding  
where the Cleveland Cavaliers star will end up for the next NBA season. In 
Las  Vegas all Lucky's sports books have posted a prop asking whether James 
will  score one point or more for the Cavaliers during the 2010-11 season. 
The odds  opened at pick 'em, or minus 110 either way. That line roughly 
corresponds to  the odds offered at an offshore book on where James will start 
the season. The  Cavaliers are even money on the offshore line, followed by 
the Knicks at plus  200 and the Nets -- co-owned by rapper Jay-Z, a friend of 
James -- at plus 350.  -- Las Vegas Sun  
_76ers expect Elton Brand to be All-Star_ 
(http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/126/2009/june/05/jordan-feels-his-style-will-be-eltons-b
rand-2.html) 
Eddie Jordan, the Sixers' new coach, is convinced the 30-year-old Elton 
Brand  will flourish in his Princeton offense that relies on a lot of player 
movement,  back cuts and quick decision-making. "Elton Brand's a 20(-point) 
and  10(-rebound) career player," Jordan said. "Good players find their way in 
any  offense. When he helps his teammates, it'll be easier for him to 
score. There's  a lot of parts of the offense that he can excel at." In fact, 
Jordan is already  talking up Brand, who was an all-star twice with the 
Clippers, and Andre  Iguodala as potential Eastern Conference all-stars. He said 
the Sixers already  have two stars, which would seem to be Brand and Iguodala. 
-- Bucks County  Courier Times  
_Blazers have $52 million in committed payroll_ 
(http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=124418030527213700) 
The salary-cap limit for the 2009-10 season should be set later this month. 
 The cap figure was $58.68 last season, with the luxury tax threshold at 
$71.15  million. NBA Commissioner David Stern indicated last month both 
figures would  likely drop a small amount next season. "I hope not," Pritchard 
says. The  Blazers were at about $80 million last season - fifth-highest in the 
NBA behind  New York, Dallas, Cleveland and Boston - meaning they paid $9 
million in luxury  tax. If you include Blake, Oden and a first-round draft 
pick, the Blazers have  about $52 million committed to players next season. -- 
Portland Tribune  
_Malik Rose to receive honorary degree_ 
(http://newsok.com/thunder-notebook-earl-watson-changes-agencies/article/3375209?custom_click=pod_headline_nba-t
hunder) 
Malik Rose will receive an honorary degree from his alma mater Drexel at 
the  school's commencement ceremony on June 13. Rose will receive the Doctor 
of  Humane Letters degree during the ceremony for the graduates of Drexel's 
College  of Nursing and Health Professions and Goodwin College of 
Professional Studies.  Rose graduated from Drexel in 1996 after leading the Dragons to 
two NCAA  Tournament appearances and the school's only victory in an NCAA 
Tournament game.  -- Oklahoman  
_How About That?_ 
(http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi5-2009jun05,0,4794448.story) 
Phil Jackson is 43-0 in playoff series when his team wins a Game 1. Kobe  
Bryant is 19-0 when his team wins Game 1. -- LA Times  
_Celts Pierce catches new Terminator movie_ 
(http://news.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view/2009_06_05_Tracked_Down:_Wynton_Marsalis__David_Spade_
_Paul_Pierce_and_more___) 
Boston Celtics star Paul Pierce and fiancee Julie Landrum catching a 
showing  of "Terminator Salvation" at Showcase Cinema in Woburn. -- Boston Herald  
_Orlando's Dwight Howard Leads the NBA in Dunks_ 
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124407199853883039.html) 
During the past five seasons, Magic star Dwight Howard has amassed 1,062  
dunks, 248 more than his closest competitor, according to Stats. -- Wall  
Street Journal  
_Lakers and Magic kicked out of Staples by WNBA?_ 
(http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi5-2009jun05,0,4794448.story) 
The Lakers and Magic will not be able to practice at Staples Center on  
Saturday because of a late-morning WNBA game between the Sparks and Detroit  
Shock. The Lakers and Magic will instead take turns practicing within the more 
 restricted confines of the Lakers' training facility in El Segundo, where 
a  media crunch is expected. -- LA Times  
_NBA star goes for LA street bacon wrapped hot dogs_ 
(http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/04/b-baller-gets-stuffed-off-court/) 
Houston Rocket Ron Artest laughs in the face of danger ... dogs. Last 
night,  the basketball player partook in one of L.A.'s most sacred traditions: 
Devouring  a few of those greasy, regrettable and incredibly delicious bacon 
wrapped hot  dogs after a night of clubbing. -- TMZ  
_Tony Romo, Jessica Simpson on Lakers date_ 
(http://www.celebrity-gossip.net/celebrities/hollywood/jessica-simpson-and-tony-romo-lakers-date-214330/) 
Stepping out for a sporty evening, Jessica Simpson and Tony Romo were 
spotted  attending Game One of the NBA Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and 
the  Orlando Magic last night (June 4). The "Come On Over" songstress and 
her Dallas  Cowboy looked to be having a marvelous time as they arrived at the 
Staples  Center for the big game. Holding hands as they walked, Jessica and 
Tony did  their best to ignore the paparazzi, both sporting casual chic 
attire. --  Celebrity Gossip  
Say hi to Ben Maller at _myspace.com/benmaller_ 
(http://www.myspace.com/benmaller) . Get special rumor updates and follow the  life and times of Ben 
Maller on Twitter at _Twitter.com/benmaller_ (http://twitter.com/benmaller)   
Interact with Ben's fans and talk sports on _Ben Maller's forum_ 
(http://www.benmaller.com/forum/)   Questions, comments and news tips can be sent to 
Ben via e mail at _Ben at BenMaller.com._ (mailto:%20ben at benmaller.com) 
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
eExcfooterNO62)

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  7 22:41:15 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 15:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: interesting names, Egg
Message-ID: <668330.93435.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected to go undrafted, and since those projected early in the second round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last year), we should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than someone like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a couple of years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo? fellow from Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some question about Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is impressive offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still, there seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for an early #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success of Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington or Taylor or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year? ? At this point, it's like picking the winner of the Belmont, and there were only a dozen horses in that race.

Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first name to him), so others will have to say whether he has anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope coming.? By the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only PG better than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene

I



      

From jahillsr at comcast.net  Mon Jun  8 02:42:40 2009
From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:42:40 -0400
Subject: Garrett Temple who?
Message-ID: <000001c9e7e2$cbf424d0$63dc6e70$@net>

Apparently so.

 

>So, send in the clowns.  Oops, don?t bother. they?re here.

 

>Egg

 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 03:29:08 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: interesting names, Egg
Message-ID: <756033.53007.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta Pittsburgh?  I think he could be a good option off the bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready body...

Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the post...

Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?  

Ryan

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: interesting names, Egg
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected to go
> undrafted, and since those projected early in the second
> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last year), we
> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than someone
> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a couple of
> years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo? fellow from
> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some question about
> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is impressive
> offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still, there
> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for an early
> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success of
> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington or Taylor
> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year? ? At this
> point, it's like picking the winner of the Belmont, and
> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
> 
> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in
> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep
> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first
> name to him), so others will have to say whether he has
> anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope coming.? By
> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only PG better
> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
> 
> I
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 06:46:04 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:46:04 +0200
Subject: interesting names, Egg
In-Reply-To: <756033.53007.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <756033.53007.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000906072346p2393a767o5b66d70615e06b6b@mail.gmail.com>

As one of Toine's biggest defenders on this list, he really doesn't
have anything left in the tank. His knees are worn out so he has even
*less* lift than he did when he was here. Antoine's career is probably
over.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta Pittsburgh? ?I think he could be a good option off the bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready body...
>
> Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the post...
>
> Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: interesting names, Egg
>> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
>> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
>> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected to go
>> undrafted, and since those projected early in the second
>> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last year), we
>> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than someone
>> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a couple of
>> years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo? fellow from
>> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some question about
>> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is impressive
>> offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still, there
>> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for an early
>> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success of
>> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington or Taylor
>> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year? ? At this
>> point, it's like picking the winner of the Belmont, and
>> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
>>
>> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in
>> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep
>> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first
>> name to him), so others will have to say whether he has
>> anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope coming.? By
>> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only PG better
>> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
>>
>> I
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 16:41:51 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: interesting names, Egg
Message-ID: <773674.63950.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I can't remember seeing Sam Young.? I guess when I watched Pitt, I was more focused on Blair.? Young sounds good and it would be nice if he slipped a little and we had a chance at him; I think we'll be lucky to get a slider who could help us out next year.? I think Ainge will have to buy up to manage that.? Two weeks to go; I miss the excitement of having a good pick.? Gene

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 10:29 PM



Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta Pittsburgh?? I think he could be a good option off the bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready body...

Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the post...

Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?? 

Ryan

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: interesting names, Egg
> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected to go
> undrafted, and since those projected early in the second
> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last year), we
> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than someone
> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a couple of
> years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo? fellow from
> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some question about
> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is impressive
> offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still, there
> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for an early
> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success of
> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington or Taylor
> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year? ? At this
> point, it's like picking the winner of the Belmont, and
> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
> 
> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in
> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep
> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first
> name to him), so others will have to say whether he has
> anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope coming.? By
> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only PG better
> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
> 
> I
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 19:21:20 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: interesting names, Egg
Message-ID: <454094.81191.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Well, according to Marc Spears' latest Basketball Notes Column this Sunday, Antoine has been working out vigorously since he was cut by the Grizzlies and is in his best shape in years...he wouldn't be a bad pickup at the minimum...he can surely do more than Mikki Moore or O'Bryant did last season.  Doc said he wants veteran players who can shoot from range...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:46 AM
> As one of Toine's biggest defenders
> on this list, he really doesn't
> have anything left in the tank. His knees are worn out so
> he has even
> *less* lift than he did when he was here. Antoine's career
> is probably
> over.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta
> Pittsburgh? ?I think he could be a good option off the
> bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready
> body...
> >
> > Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could
> contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever
> from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the
> post...
> >
> > Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another
> go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better
> veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: interesting names, Egg
> >> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
> >> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
> >> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected
> to go
> >> undrafted, and since those projected early in the
> second
> >> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last
> year), we
> >> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than
> someone
> >> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a
> couple of
> >> years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo?
> fellow from
> >> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some
> question about
> >> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is
> impressive
> >> offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still,
> there
> >> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for
> an early
> >> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success
> of
> >> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington
> or Taylor
> >> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year? ?
> At this
> >> point, it's like picking the winner of the
> Belmont, and
> >> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
> >>
> >> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is
> interested in
> >> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an
> excellent deep
> >> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put
> a first
> >> name to him), so others will have to say whether
> he has
> >> anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope
> coming.? By
> >> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only
> PG better
> >> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  8 19:28:39 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:28:39 -0400
Subject: interesting names, Egg
In-Reply-To: <454094.81191.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <454094.81191.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W494778CB76CF483F9A4033A5470@phx.gbl>


It's like a bad nightmare that never stops. I swear someone will be suggesting we bring Antoine back up until he is 70 years old.

 

PLEASE GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:21:20 -0700
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> 
> Well, according to Marc Spears' latest Basketball Notes Column this Sunday, Antoine has been working out vigorously since he was cut by the Grizzlies and is in his best shape in years...he wouldn't be a bad pickup at the minimum...he can surely do more than Mikki Moore or O'Bryant did last season. Doc said he wants veteran players who can shoot from range...
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:46 AM
> > As one of Toine's biggest defenders
> > on this list, he really doesn't
> > have anything left in the tank. His knees are worn out so
> > he has even
> > *less* lift than he did when he was here. Antoine's career
> > is probably
> > over.
> > 
> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta
> > Pittsburgh?  I think he could be a good option off the
> > bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready
> > body...
> > >
> > > Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could
> > contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever
> > from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the
> > post...
> > >
> > > Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another
> > go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better
> > veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > >> Subject: interesting names, Egg
> > >> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > >> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
> > >> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
> > >> interesting.  He's clearly someone who's expected
> > to go
> > >> undrafted, and since those projected early in the
> > second
> > >> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last
> > year), we
> > >> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than
> > someone
> > >> like Temple.  Still, he's a solid #12 man in a
> > couple of
> > >> years--and 23 years old now.  With the Pargo?
> > fellow from
> > >> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some
> > question about
> > >> Marbury??  J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is
> > impressive
> > >> offensively, but not so much defensively.  Still,
> > there
> > >> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for
> > an early
> > >> #2 pick.  Some of this appears to be the success
> > of
> > >> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington
> > or Taylor
> > >> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year?  
> > At this
> > >> point, it's like picking the winner of the
> > Belmont, and
> > >> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
> > >>
> > >> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is
> > interested in
> > >> becoming a Celtic.  He's 6' 10" & has an
> > excellent deep
> > >> shot.  I haven't kept up with him (can't even put
> > a first
> > >> name to him), so others will have to say whether
> > he has
> > >> anything left or not.  Keep the inside dope
> > coming.  By
> > >> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only
> > PG better
> > >> than Rondo.  Cheers, Gene
> > >>
> > >> I
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > >> celtics at igtc.com
> > >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. 
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009

From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 19:52:26 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (wayoftheray at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: UPDATES: The Immortal Garrett Temple, Gortat Is Available, Jordan Hill,
	Jermaine Taylor, David Lee
Message-ID: <614544.6153.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


The Immortal Garrett Temple (Thanks Good Egg)

What can you say? Perhaps, after having his heart attack, Danny Ainge confused Garrett Temple with a Mormon Temple? 

Well, the immortal Garrett Temple and his lofty .362 shooting percentage, 7 points a game, and scrawny 176-pound frame at 6-5 is not very likely to be selected by any other team in the Draft, even if he has incriminating photos of several NBA GMs in bed together with a transvestite. Why do they need to draft him, when they can sign him as a free agent?? 

Marcin Gortat Is Available

If you can offer him the full MLE, the starting center spot, and 
a better chance of winning than the Knicks, he's yours to keep.

For the Celtics, with Perk's snap-crackle-and-pop-pop-pop shoulder, why not sign Gortat and move Perkins to backup - limit his minutes, prolong his career? Or, package Ray and Perk for an impact big man like Stoudamire.
Can Amare guard small forwards? 

Jordan Hill

The Arizona power forward is projected to drop in the draft, due to a run on point guards and a questionable basketball IQ. Well, the basketball IQ part is a bit worrisome, although he's no Tony Allen, so why not a Ray Allen trade for a younger shooting guard and a pick in the 6-11 range to select Hill??

Jermaine Taylor (who had a tremendous workout with the Celtics by the way)

Will certainly not be available at 58, but would be a nice player to trade up for or buy a second-rounder to select him. I expect Taylor to go somewhere from 30 - 38 in the draft, and he has two wonderful NBA qualities - he can both shoot and score. He measured out close to 6-5 in sneakers, has a long wingspan, and while his defense is lacking, he has the athletic ability to play Celtics D.?????

David Lee

I am a big fan of David Lee and see him as a perfect compliment to KG.
With the Celtics frontcourt in shambles because of injuries, age and free 
agency, Lee would be a terrific acquisition.

Here's an interesting Lee, Allen, Shaq deal:? R. Allen and Perk to Phoenix,
T. Allen, Scalabrine and the 14th pick to New York; Shaq, Barbosa and Lee to Boston. 

Ray



      


From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jun  8 20:02:36 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:02:36 -0400
Subject: UPDATES: The Immortal Garrett Temple, Gortat Is Available,
	Jordan Hill,	Jermaine Taylor, David Lee
In-Reply-To: <614544.6153.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AFF1C527.CE21.4BFC.8B75.68DE004E9C99@aol.com>


On Jun 8, 2009, at 3:52:26 PM, wayoftheray at yahoo.com wrote:

What can you say? Perhaps, after having his heart attack, Danny Ainge confused Garrett Temple with a Mormon Temple??
Jesu Christi, Ray. ?YOU KILL ME. ?It's hard to believe that the Koolaid Kids/Madmen here don't see/want to see your
humor. ?Keep harrassing the serious Bastards. ? They deserve it.

Such fun!

The More-Evil-Than-Ever ?Eggster?

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 21:24:26 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:24:26 +0200
Subject: interesting names, Egg
In-Reply-To: <454094.81191.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <454094.81191.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000906081424o2f6aa07dna230d9df50a92ca@mail.gmail.com>

If you believe that, I have some Kevin Garnett bone spurs to sell you.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well, according to Marc Spears' latest Basketball Notes Column this Sunday, Antoine has been working out vigorously since he was cut by the Grizzlies and is in his best shape in years...he wouldn't be a bad pickup at the minimum...he can surely do more than Mikki Moore or O'Bryant did last season. ?Doc said he wants veteran players who can shoot from range...
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:46 AM
>> As one of Toine's biggest defenders
>> on this list, he really doesn't
>> have anything left in the tank. His knees are worn out so
>> he has even
>> *less* lift than he did when he was here. Antoine's career
>> is probably
>> over.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young outta
>> Pittsburgh? ?I think he could be a good option off the
>> bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a pro-ready
>> body...
>> >
>> > Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could
>> contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever
>> from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the
>> post...
>> >
>> > Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another
>> go-around...who else thinks he might have been a better
>> veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?
>> >
>> > Ryan
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
>> >> Subject: interesting names, Egg
>> >> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> >> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
>> >> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
>> >> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's expected
>> to go
>> >> undrafted, and since those projected early in the
>> second
>> >> round often drop way down (ala Bill Walker last
>> year), we
>> >> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider rather than
>> someone
>> >> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12 man in a
>> couple of
>> >> years--and 23 years old now.? With the Pargo?
>> fellow from
>> >> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating some
>> question about
>> >> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6' 4" SG) is
>> impressive
>> >> offensively, but not so much defensively.? Still,
>> there
>> >> seems to be plenty of interest surrounding him for
>> an early
>> >> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the success
>> of
>> >> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will Ellington
>> or Taylor
>> >> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this year?
>> At this
>> >> point, it's like picking the winner of the
>> Belmont, and
>> >> there were only a dozen horses in that race.
>> >>
>> >> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is
>> interested in
>> >> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an
>> excellent deep
>> >> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't even put
>> a first
>> >> name to him), so others will have to say whether
>> he has
>> >> anything left or not.? Keep the inside dope
>> coming.? By
>> >> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is the only
>> PG better
>> >> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
>> >>
>> >> I
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> >> celtics at igtc.com
>> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> > celtics at igtc.com
>> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 21:55:57 2009
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
Message-ID: <729486.21181.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Gene:

<<Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in
becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep
shot. I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first name to him), so others will have to say whether he has
anything left or not.>>

Ryan:

<<Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he
could contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever
from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in the
post...>>

I think Shawn put it best, albeit in response to a different suggestion: 

> PLEASE GOD
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing worse than signing Tim Thomas as a player would be signing Isiah Thomas as a coach.  Tim Thomas is a great fit - on the CLIPPERS. He's the second coming of Curtis "No Ws + Ls on a paycheck" Rowe.  


Michael Gooen


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 21:59:02 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
Message-ID: <795110.31427.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Well, you can never underestimate the power of playing on the Cs and hearing KG/Ray/Paul's voice in your ear...it does wonders...when motivated, Tim Thomas is a nice weapon.  But this is all conjecture at this point: Tim Thomas is not a free agent, and has 6 million or so left on his contract for next season.  There's NO WAY he'll be on the team next season...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 4:55 PM
> 
> Gene:
> 
> <<Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is
> interested in
> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent
> deep
> shot. I haven't kept up with him (can't even put a first
> name to him), so others will have to say whether he has
> anything left or not.>>
> 
> Ryan:
> 
> <<Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he
> could contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly
> as ever
> from 3 point land...can't defend however, especially in
> the
> post...>>
> 
> I think Shawn put it best, albeit in response to a
> different suggestion: 
> 
> > PLEASE GOD
> >
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The only thing worse than signing Tim Thomas as a player
> would be signing Isiah Thomas as a coach.? Tim Thomas
> is a great fit - on the CLIPPERS. He's the second coming of
> Curtis "No Ws + Ls on a paycheck" Rowe.? 
> 
> 
> Michael Gooen
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 22:04:15 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: interesting names, Egg
Message-ID: <643176.31369.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


What's so hard to believe?  Unwantedness has a way of motivating people...after sitting an entire season and not getting one offer, I'm sure Walker decided he was too young to retire and simply rededicated himself to honing his body...it's not like he NEVER had a work ethic, it's just that he got comfortable and lazy...take away the comfort, take away the money, take away the glamor of being a professional athlete, and it's easy to get into the gym for a couple hours every day.  I'd definitely have him in for a workout and see where he's at...we're going to have room on our roster for minimum wage veteran big men...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 4:24 PM
> If you believe that, I have some
> Kevin Garnett bone spurs to sell you.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, according to Marc Spears' latest Basketball
> Notes Column this Sunday, Antoine has been working out
> vigorously since he was cut by the Grizzlies and is in his
> best shape in years...he wouldn't be a bad pickup at the
> minimum...he can surely do more than Mikki Moore or O'Bryant
> did last season. ?Doc said he wants veteran players who can
> shoot from range...
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: interesting names, Egg
> >> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:46 AM
> >> As one of Toine's biggest defenders
> >> on this list, he really doesn't
> >> have anything left in the tank. His knees are worn
> out so
> >> he has even
> >> *less* lift than he did when he was here.
> Antoine's career
> >> is probably
> >> over.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Ryan W<ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hey Gene, what you think about Sam Young
> outta
> >> Pittsburgh? ?I think he could be a good option
> off the
> >> bench at the 2/3...he's a scorer, and has a
> pro-ready
> >> body...
> >> >
> >> > Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think
> he could
> >> contribute, I'd roll the dice...he's still as
> deadly as ever
> >> from 3 point land...can't defend however,
> especially in the
> >> post...
> >> >
> >> > Personally, I'd rather give Antoine another
> >> go-around...who else thinks he might have been a
> better
> >> veteran addition than Mikki Moore ever was?
> >> >
> >> > Ryan
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Subject: interesting names, Egg
> >> >> To: "celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
> >> >> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:41 PM
> >> >> Suggesting G. Temple of LSU is
> >> >> interesting.? He's clearly someone who's
> expected
> >> to go
> >> >> undrafted, and since those projected
> early in the
> >> second
> >> >> round often drop way down (ala Bill
> Walker last
> >> year), we
> >> >> should expect Ainge to pluck a slider
> rather than
> >> someone
> >> >> like Temple.? Still, he's a solid #12
> man in a
> >> couple of
> >> >> years--and 23 years old now.? With the
> Pargo?
> >> fellow from
> >> >> Gonzaga, we have a second PG, indicating
> some
> >> question about
> >> >> Marbury??? J. Taylor of S. Florida (6'
> 4" SG) is
> >> impressive
> >> >> offensively, but not so much
> defensively.? Still,
> >> there
> >> >> seems to be plenty of interest
> surrounding him for
> >> an early
> >> >> #2 pick.? Some of this appears to be the
> success
> >> of
> >> >> Courtney Lee (now with the Magic); will
> Ellington
> >> or Taylor
> >> >> or Marcus Thornton of LSU be the guy this
> year?
> >> At this
> >> >> point, it's like picking the winner of
> the
> >> Belmont, and
> >> >> there were only a dozen horses in that
> race.
> >> >>
> >> >> Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32,
> is
> >> interested in
> >> >> becoming a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" &
> has an
> >> excellent deep
> >> >> shot.? I haven't kept up with him (can't
> even put
> >> a first
> >> >> name to him), so others will have to say
> whether
> >> he has
> >> >> anything left or not.? Keep the inside
> dope
> >> coming.? By
> >> >> the way, I'm one who thinks Chris Paul is
> the only
> >> PG better
> >> >> than Rondo.? Cheers, Gene
> >> >>
> >> >> I
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> > celtics at igtc.com
> >> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 23:17:26 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thomas
Message-ID: <175450.99620.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


You could do a straight-up trade of Tim Thomas for Scal and Tony. Their deals all expire after last year, so there's no huge reason for either team not to do it. Thomas would seemingly be an upgrade over Scal, at least offensively - averaged nearly 10 ppg last season and shot 41% on treys. 

If Doc's not gonna play Tony anyway, Danny could at least clear out a roster space and maybe see if Giddens can play. The only real question is whether Danny'd rather try to use Scal and Tony's salaries in some other deal. 


      


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 00:46:29 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:46:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
Message-ID: <141191.40399.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

OK.? thanks; that's what I needed.? Certainly Ainge has that figured out, too.? Certainly.

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 4:55 PM


Gene:

 

> PLEASE GOD
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing worse than signing Tim Thomas as a player would be signing Isiah Thomas as a coach.? Tim Thomas is a great fit - on the CLIPPERS. He's the second coming of Curtis "No Ws + Ls on a paycheck" Rowe.? 


Michael Gooen


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Tue Jun  9 01:10:47 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:47 -0400
Subject: Jordan Hill  & Earl Clark
Message-ID: <03af01c9e89f$1f5b96f0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

Jordan Hill

The Arizona power forward is projected to drop in the draft, due to a run on
point guards and a questionable basketball IQ. Well, the basketball IQ part
is a bit worrisome, although he's no Tony Allen, so why not a Ray Allen
trade for a younger shooting guard and a pick in the 6-11 range to select
Hill??

I agree with Ray to a point! I think Hill will drop but I think we can get
him or an Earl Clark, etc. for 1 expiring contract and cash.  Throw in a 2nd
rounder if you want too!    Point being, I think a lot of teams will want to
sell their 1st round picks and all they want in return is not taking back
long term salary.  A young, athletic 3-4 would be great.   As a KY native, I
see a lot of Earl Clark.  He will be a better pro than college player.  His
work ethic is questionable but I think KG & PP would take care of that.  I
would love to see us trade TA, BS, etc for him.    Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of wayoftheray at yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 3:52 PM
To: Celtics Stuff; Celtics Are Idiots List
Subject: UPDATES: The Immortal Garrett Temple, Gortat Is Available, Jordan
Hill,Jermaine Taylor, David Lee


The Immortal Garrett Temple (Thanks Good Egg)

What can you say? Perhaps, after having his heart attack, Danny Ainge
confused Garrett Temple with a Mormon Temple?

Well, the immortal Garrett Temple and his lofty .362 shooting percentage, 7
points a game, and scrawny 176-pound frame at 6-5 is not very likely to be
selected by any other team in the Draft, even if he has incriminating photos
of several NBA GMs in bed together with a transvestite. Why do they need to
draft him, when they can sign him as a free agent??

Marcin Gortat Is Available

If you can offer him the full MLE, the starting center spot, and a better
chance of winning than the Knicks, he's yours to keep.

For the Celtics, with Perk's snap-crackle-and-pop-pop-pop shoulder, why not
sign Gortat and move Perkins to backup - limit his minutes, prolong his
career? Or, package Ray and Perk for an impact big man like Stoudamire.
Can Amare guard small forwards?

Jordan Hill

The Arizona power forward is projected to drop in the draft, due to a run on
point guards and a questionable basketball IQ. Well, the basketball IQ part
is a bit worrisome, although he's no Tony Allen, so why not a Ray Allen
trade for a younger shooting guard and a pick in the 6-11 range to select
Hill??

Jermaine Taylor (who had a tremendous workout with the Celtics by the way)

Will certainly not be available at 58, but would be a nice player to trade
up for or buy a second-rounder to select him. I expect Taylor to go
somewhere from 30 - 38 in the draft, and he has two wonderful NBA qualities
- he can both shoot and score. He measured out close to 6-5 in sneakers, has
a long wingspan, and while his defense is lacking, he has the athletic
ability to play Celtics D.?????

David Lee

I am a big fan of David Lee and see him as a perfect compliment to KG.
With the Celtics frontcourt in shambles because of injuries, age and free
agency, Lee would be a terrific acquisition.

Here's an interesting Lee, Allen, Shaq deal:? R. Allen and Perk to Phoenix,
T. Allen, Scalabrine and the 14th pick to New York; Shaq, Barbosa and Lee to
Boston.

Ray





_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06:01:00



From tsb33 at windstream.net  Tue Jun  9 01:11:46 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:46 -0400
Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
In-Reply-To: <795110.31427.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <795110.31427.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <03b001c9e89f$426c07b0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer>

yep, just ask Mikki Moore!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:59 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Tim Thomas? You mean the goalie, I hope?


Well, you can never underestimate the power of playing on the Cs and hearing
KG/Ray/Paul's voice in your ear...it does wonders...when motivated, Tim
Thomas is a nice weapon.  But this is all conjecture at this point: Tim
Thomas is not a free agent, and has 6 million or so left on his contract for
next season.  There's NO WAY he'll be on the team next season...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Tim Thomas?  You mean the goalie, I hope?
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 4:55 PM
>
> Gene:
>
> <<Most interesting news is that Thomas, 32, is interested in becoming
> a Celtic.? He's 6' 10" & has an excellent deep shot. I haven't kept up
> with him (can't even put a first name to him), so others will have to
> say whether he has anything left or not.>>
>
> Ryan:
>
> <<Tim Thomas is intriguing...if Doc/Danny think he could contribute,
> I'd roll the dice...he's still as deadly as ever from 3 point
> land...can't defend however, especially in the post...>>
>
> I think Shawn put it best, albeit in response to a different
> suggestion:
>
> > PLEASE GOD
> >
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> The only thing worse than signing Tim Thomas as a player would be
> signing Isiah Thomas as a coach.? Tim Thomas is a great fit - on the
> CLIPPERS. He's the second coming of Curtis "No Ws + Ls on a paycheck"
> Rowe.
>
>
> Michael Gooen
>
>
> ? ? ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2142 - Release Date: 06/08/09
06:01:00



From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 03:06:08 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thomas
Message-ID: <101219.55788.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


That's pretty cold, dealing Tony back to Chicago where some guy keeps threatening his life...

Scal is probably a better fit right now, though.  Thomas CAN be good, especially in the last year of his contract, but he's never been a good defensive player and the last thing this team needs is a one-dimensional offensive player.  We need defensive players, first and foremost.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Thomas
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 6:17 PM
> 
> You could do a straight-up trade of Tim Thomas for Scal and
> Tony. Their deals all expire after last year, so there's no
> huge reason for either team not to do it. Thomas would
> seemingly be an upgrade over Scal, at least offensively -
> averaged nearly 10 ppg last season and shot 41% on treys. 
> 
> If Doc's not gonna play Tony anyway, Danny could at least
> clear out a roster space and maybe see if Giddens can play.
> The only real question is whether Danny'd rather try to use
> Scal and Tony's salaries in some other deal. 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 12:54:16 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 05:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rondubio: Celtics After The Second Pick In The Draft
Message-ID: <916911.10907.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Will there be a Rondo for Rubio trade?
Rondo for Thabeet and Mike Conley? 
Rondo, Perkins & T. Allen for Rubio and Milicic?
Ray Allen, Bill Walker and a future first for Jaric, Milicic, 
Buckner and the second pick?

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/09/griz-expect-rubio-visit-for-workout/ (H/T Celtics Blog)

Meanwhile, the Griz still are entertaining offers for the No. 2 pick as well as their 27th and 36th selections.

As the rumor mill churns, the Griz have been approached by several teams about acquiring the second overall pick. Boston, Houston and New York are said to be among the most recent suitors.

Boston and Houston would likely have to offer an established NBA player or two, given that neither team owns a first-round pick. New York owns the eighth pick and likely would want to move up for the opportunity to take Rubio.


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 13:11:09 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 06:11:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Philly Insider: Celtics Offer T. Allen & Giddens For Willie Green
Message-ID: <534374.78163.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=910146

"Boston offered us tony allen and Jr Giddens for Green verbally...not sure what that does for us. Probably nothing."

Willie Green is a 6-2 SG most often compared to Tony Allen. He has another year left on his contract, whereas Allen and Giddens (team option) would be expiring.

Ray


      


From eggcentric at aol.com  Tue Jun  9 15:52:59 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:52:59 -0400
Subject: Allen and Giddens for who?
Message-ID: <B48A87EB.8BDB.4161.8DE0.1A3CF65DD892@aol.com>

"Boston offered us tony allen and Jr Giddens for Green verbally."
- WayRay

Have heard the same trade offer along with many others. ?It's true, ?Ainge,?
out of financial desperation, has offered two?former first round?picks(Allen and Giddens) 
for?Band-Aid Willie Green,?the 41st pick in?the?2003 draft. ?

And Ray, ss for your "immortal" Garrett Temple, below is a response fromcontributer?
CeltSteve?to the same post I placed on JB's?Yahoo CelticsStuff board. ? ?

Seriously, Danny has invited Temple in?for multiple workouts, and is quite?
enamored of him. ?Unless he trades up in the draft, which i doubt he
will be financially motivated to do, I still feel we will end up drafting?
Mr. Temple.
Likely Ray Allen will be dealt for the best BIG we can secure.

Egg
-------------------------------------

Re: Fw: [Celtics' Stuff ] Garrett Temple who?

The Temple family has been associated with LSU round ball for more than three decades. Collis helped?
raise Big Baby. ?Garrett is a long time HS and collegiate teammate of Big Baby and his play brother.
?
You want a? candid synopsis of Garrett's game? Read the entire thread of TigerForum:
?
http://www.tigerforums.com/tigers-den/85013-garrett-temple-impressing-nba-teams.html
?
?
Garrett Temple has had work outs with Houston, Portland, Oklahoma City, Sacramento, San Antonio, and Boston. All of which
said they were not expecting him to be the best player they invited to play, but he was by far the best.?They are impressed
with his 6'11 wing span and did not know he was as quick/athletic as he is.?He has also been knocking down his jumpers,?
and that was what teams were most concerned about. Im not sayin he will get drafted, but @ the same time i wont be?
surprised to see him get drafted late in the 2nd round are get picked up after the draft... Good luck G
?
Garrett's bio:??http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=174836
?

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 16:54:53 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Allen and Giddens for who?
Message-ID: <436573.82731.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


So, what have you heard, Egg?  Don't hold out on us...

I personally don't understand this rumored TA/Giddens for Green trade...it basically takes two expiring contracts and trades them for one guy with 2 years left on his deal.  Are we THAT in need of an extra roster spot that we would put another 4 million on the books for 2010?  Is that 'financial desperation?'  If it is, I don't get it.

What's this Ray Allen will be dealt for the best available big man?  I'm pretty certain he's going to be with us next season.  What are you hearing?

Ryan

--- On Tue, 6/9/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Allen and Giddens for who?
> To: Celtics at IGTC.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 10:52 AM
> "Boston offered us tony allen and Jr
> Giddens for Green verbally."
> - WayRay
> 
> Have heard the same trade offer along with many others.
> ?It's true, ?Ainge,?
> out of financial desperation, has offered two?former first
> round?picks(Allen and Giddens) 
> for?Band-Aid Willie Green,?the 41st pick in?the?2003
> draft. ?
> 
> And Ray, ss for your "immortal" Garrett Temple, below is a
> response fromcontributer?
> CeltSteve?to the same post I placed on JB's?Yahoo
> CelticsStuff board. ? ?
> 
> Seriously, Danny has invited Temple in?for multiple
> workouts, and is quite?
> enamored of him. ?Unless he trades up in the draft, which
> i doubt he
> will be financially motivated to do, I still feel we will
> end up drafting?
> Mr. Temple.
> Likely Ray Allen will be dealt for the best BIG we can
> secure.
> 
> Egg
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Re: Fw: [Celtics' Stuff ] Garrett Temple who?
> 
> The Temple family has been associated with LSU round ball
> for more than three decades. Collis helped?
> raise Big Baby. ?Garrett is a long time HS and collegiate
> teammate of Big Baby and his play brother.
> ?
> You want a? candid synopsis of Garrett's game? Read the
> entire thread of TigerForum:
> ?
> http://www.tigerforums.com/tigers-den/85013-garrett-temple-impressing-nba-teams.html
> ?
> ?
> Garrett Temple has had work outs with Houston, Portland,
> Oklahoma City, Sacramento, San Antonio, and Boston. All of
> which
> said they were not expecting him to be the best player they
> invited to play, but he was by far the best.?They are
> impressed
> with his 6'11 wing span and did not know he was as
> quick/athletic as he is.?He has also been knocking down his
> jumpers,?
> and that was what teams were most concerned about. Im not
> sayin he will get drafted, but @ the same time i wont be?
> surprised to see him get drafted late in the 2nd round are
> get picked up after the draft... Good luck G
> ?
> Garrett's bio:??http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=174836
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 12:05:49 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rondubio: Celtics After The Second Pick In The Draft
In-Reply-To: <916911.10907.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <916911.10907.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <801087.13727.qm@web65514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I think?Memphis just trying to squeeze the Knicks into overpaying to move up.? Rubio is exactly?the player?D'Antoni wants for his team.




________________________________
From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
To: Celtics Stuff <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>; Celtics Are Hooligans List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:54:16 AM
Subject: Rondubio: Celtics After The Second Pick In The Draft


Will there be a Rondo for Rubio trade?
Rondo for Thabeet and Mike Conley? 
Rondo, Perkins & T. Allen for Rubio and Milicic?
Ray Allen, Bill Walker and a future first for Jaric, Milicic, 
Buckner and the second pick?

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/09/griz-expect-rubio-visit-for-workout/ (H/T Celtics Blog)

Meanwhile, the Griz still are entertaining offers for the No. 2 pick as well as their 27th and 36th selections.

As the rumor mill churns, the Griz have been approached by several teams about acquiring the second overall pick. Boston, Houston and New York are said to be among the most recent suitors.

Boston and Houston would likely have to offer an established NBA player or two, given that neither team owns a first-round pick. New York owns the eighth pick and likely would want to move up for the opportunity to take Rubio.


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Wed Jun 10 13:15:05 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:15:05 -0400
Subject: Allen and Giddens for who?
In-Reply-To: <436573.82731.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <405FBF5A.954C.4A39.B6D5.2C16425C8ED2@aol.com>

I personally don't understand this rumored TA/Giddens for Green trade...
it basically takes two expiring contracts and trades the?for one
guy with?2 years left on his deal
- Ubi

-------------------------
Doesn't Tim Thomas have only one year remaining on his contract of $6 mill +
for?the 2009-10 season?

I don't understand Danny's trade offer either, as Thomas is not the bench guy who 
can push us over the bar to the next Championship. ?Unless, of course, that Dannyis anxious (as I have mentioned) to get rid of two of his losers ... T. Allen and Giddens.?

Egg?

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 17:25:13 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Allen and Giddens for who?
Message-ID: <974825.61341.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Maybe all these insider rumors you hear are getting mixed up in your head, but the Tim Thomas rumor was from Tim Thomas himself, saying he'd like to join the Celtics...which is nice and all until you remember that he's still UNDER CONTRACT next season.  Unless you're saying that indeed your insider rumors have confirmed that Danny is trying to get Tim Thomas.

The TA/Giddens for Green trade was alleged by some insider on the Philly RealGM board, who apparently has had solid inside info in the past.  But with the salary concerns on this team, I just don't see the necessity in needlessly bringing in an extra 4 million dollars onto our 2010 salary structure for a guy--Willie Green--who isn't one bit better than TA (or Giddens for that matter).  On the other hand, a guy like Reggie Evans, who was traded yesterday from Philly to Toronto for Kappono, that was a guy I wouldn't have minded getting.  He makes the same as Willie Green, and would bring some needed toughness and nut-grabbing ability to the Cs, since the aspect of physicality is what we especially missed after Posey's departure...


Ryan
--- On Wed, 6/10/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Allen and Giddens for who?
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 8:15 AM
> I personally don't understand this
> rumored TA/Giddens for Green trade...
> it basically takes two expiring contracts and trades
> the?for one
> guy with?2 years left on his deal
> - Ubi
> 
> -------------------------
> Doesn't Tim Thomas have only one year remaining on his
> contract of $6 mill +
> for?the 2009-10 season?
> 
> I don't understand Danny's trade offer either, as Thomas is
> not the bench guy who 
> can push us over the bar to the next Championship.
> ?Unless, of course, that Dannyis anxious (as I have
> mentioned) to get rid of two of his losers ... T. Allen and
> Giddens.?
> 
> Egg?
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From BDodgers at aol.com  Wed Jun 10 18:19:34 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:19:34 EDT
Subject: Gottlieb breaks out his Big Board and offers tips to anyone selecting
	in this ye
Message-ID: <bcb.50ad895c.37615336@aol.com>

 
>From what I've seen, here are the top 30
Gottlieb breaks out his Big Board and offers tips to anyone selecting in  
this year's draft
 
 
 (http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/index) 
 (http://search.espn.go.com/doug-gottlieb/) By Doug  Gottlieb
ESPN.com


Before ranking players on any Big Board, it's important to have a 
philosophy  heading into the draft. So with the June 25 draft just two weeks away, 
here are  five things every NBA general manager should keep in mind: 
? Everyone would like to wait till next year. So if  you are not in love 
with what you see on your draft broad, go Chicago Cubs-style  and "wait till 
next year" and its stellar draft class. While most NBA pundits  talk 
glowingly about the free-agent class of 2010, the college basketball world  is 
smitten with the vast amount of returning talent in its game. Potential  lottery 
picks _Greg Monroe_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41733) , _Al-Farouq Aminu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41037) , _Willie Warren_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41570) , _Cole Aldrich_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36170) , _Luke Babbitt_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41425) , _Jerome Jordan_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31565) , _Evan Turner_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36135) , _James Anderson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36251) , _Kyle Singler_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36156) , _Craig Brackins_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36262) , _Ed Davis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36668) , _Kalin Lucas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36476)  and _Jarvis Varnado_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32037)  will be joined by a 
much-better freshman  class (John Wall, Avery Bradley, Renardo Sidney, Derrick 
Favors just to name a  few) in what surely will be a very deep draft. ESPN's 
Fran Fraschilla has called  this year's draft class the worst in 25 years. 
Listen to those who know and get  a pick from a potential lottery team for 
next year. 
? If you need help now, value highly productive  major college players who 
are undersized or play an in-between position instead  of "upside" guys. 
_Darren Collison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26892) 
, _Marcus Thornton_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36182) , _Terrence Williams_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27275)  and _Jon Brockman_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26870)  can be very helpful to playoff teams in  need of a 
productive bench player in the late first or early second round. 
? Make sure that an evaluation takes into account  the surrounding 
personnel. Take _Damion James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31581) , for example. He was a lock lotto pick  playing with D.J. 
Augustin, but after a year without a big-time point guard,  James' stock has dipped. 
Bottom line, he is an unreal athlete who needs someone  else to set him up. 
If he does -- someone like CP3, Deron Williams or Steve Nash  -- he will 
excel. 
? Do not let the NCAA tournament sway your feelings. From Johnny Morton to  
Johnny Taylor, Corey Brewer to Mateen Cleaves, NCAA success does not equal 
NBA  skill. From Lawson to Curry to Maynor, don't let the glamour of the 
Dance sway  the quality of evaluation. 
? Be wary of the workout warrior. We say it every year in football and it  
rings true in hoops, as well. Talent evaluators have rightfully been 
impressed  with all the private viewings over the past month, and stocks are rising 
and  falling due to reviews that keep coming in. But let's get real here. 
The  oft-criticized "one-and-done" rule has provided us with ample real-game 
footage  of these guys. A scout's instinct over the last year is no less 
valuable than  anything that might've taken place over the last month. 
With that said, here is what the top 30 of my Big Board would look like ? 
1. _Blake Griffin_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36259) , Oklahoma 
What I like: Beast. Strong as an ox. Tulsa's _Jerome Jordan_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31565) , who played against Memphis 
for a couple  of years with Joey Dorsey, told me recently that Griffin is 
"far and away the  strongest guy I have ever played against and he gets off 
the floor really  quickly." Griffin has played hurt, plays hard and comes 
from a two-parent home  that appears to be the real deal and would keep him on 
an even keel in Los  Angeles (assuming the Clippers draft him). He has a 
unique type of fluidity for  his size and strength, and while he is not the 
shooter he needs to be, there is  not a real flaw in his delivery for that not 
to improve as his legs start to  age. Griffin is a very good passer from the 
double-team and he seems to enjoy  the assist more than others at his 
position. He blocks shots based on effort and  athleticism, not length, which 
proves his motor is phenomenal. 
What I don't like: The best player in a weak draft. Only 6-foot-8? in bare  
feet and not long. He is not a good free-throw shooter and not a good 
shooter,  period. 
Best case: A more athletic Karl Malone. 
2. _Ricky Rubio_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19272&draftyear=2009) , Spain 
What I like: Clever as can be with the ball, he has a Steve 
Nash-meets-Pistol  Pete-feel. Unlike both those guys, Rubio is a below-average shooter, but 
his  form and numbers have improved. If you put a team around him, he will 
entertain  from day one. While he plays no defense and is immature at times 
in terms of  decision-making, the skills seem to be there with good size to 
overcome his lack  of speed. 
What I don't like: There is not really a blueprint for a non-defender,  
below-the-rim point guard who is a poor shooter and average finisher. 
Best case: A bigger Steve Nash with the looks and flair of the Pistol. 
3. _Jrue Holiday_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41014) , UCLA 
What I like: The best high school player in America in 2008, Holiday is a  
unique guard who can make everyone else better while also getting his. Is as 
 fluid and natural an athlete as there is in the draft. 
What I don't like: Is he really a point? He doesn't shoot it that well.  
Holiday seemed to pout a bit when there was adversity during his freshman year 
 at UCLA. 
Best case: Gary Payton 
4. _DeMar DeRozan_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41016) , USC 
What I like: Freaky athlete with massive upside. Began to "get it" at the 
end  of the season. One of the few players in the draft who will not have to 
change  position in the NBA -- he is a much more natural 2 than Harden. 
Poster child for  "upside" and may spend time in the D-League, but in a draft of 
uncertainties, he  seems to have the measurables to eventually live up to 
his massive talent. 
What I don't like: Below-average 3-point shooter in college, very raw in  
terms of basketball acumen, and may need the right tutoring from a veteran  
coach/player, as he has some hangers-on he needs to part with. 
Best case: David Thompson 
5. _Brandon Jennings_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19261&draftyear=2009) , Italy 
What I like: Jennings can be as dynamic with the ball as Chris Paul, and 
like  Paul, he can finish at the rim. No question there's a lot of talent 
here. 
What I don't like: Carried himself with a major attitude when last seen in  
the States, and fell flat in Italy. Shoots a lot, but does not shoot it 
that  well. His shot selection and decision-making leave a lot to be desired. 
Has a  slight build and does not look like he will put on weight. 
Best case: Jason Williams meets Damon Stoudamire 
6. _Hasheem Thabeet_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31559) , Connecticut 
What I like: Huge, long and with great timing while blocking shots, Thabeet 
 has some very intriguing attributes. He is a very good teammate, has not 
played  a ton of basketball and has rapidly improved his hands along the way. 
Thabeet is  also a low-maintenance guy in that he is not used to being the 
focus of an  offense, thus he will not be offended when he doesn't get the 
ball early in his  career. 
What I don't like: His hands are suspect and his "feel" is just not there.  
Thabeet struggles to catch in traffic, hold position against stronger 
players  and can be a liability on ball screens. 
Best case: Dikembe Mutombo 
7. _Jeff Teague_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36121) , Wake Forest 
What I like: Teague can finish at the rim and has a very sound midrange 
game.  His first step far exceeds that of Stephen Curry. Not a true point but 
has the  makings of the most underrated player in the draft. Can shoot the 3, 
but needs  work on the catch-and-shoot game off screens and from deep. 
What I don't like: As a leader, his team fell apart at midseason and was  
never the same. Also, Teague is not nearly as good without the ball or in a  
half-court game. 
Best case: Devin Harris with a jump shot 
8. _Jordan Hill_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31643) , Arizona 
What I like: Has played basketball for only the past six years 
competitively.  Hill has played hurt, played tough and loves a physical game. Hill, like 
 Thabeet, is more used to getting his points off the rim and not off the 
pass,  making it an easier transition as a team's fourth or fifth offensive 
option. 
What I don't like: Is not great at any one thing, and seems more like Etan  
Thomas than Brian Grant. 
Best case: A Brian Grant-type 
9. _Jonny Flynn_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36581) , Syracuse 
What I like: Ultra-quick and a very strong scoring point guard. Flynn is  
difficult to keep out of the lane and, unlike many other point guards, he 
will  finish above the rim. He is a great competitor and winner who can lift a 
team to  five more wins on his drive alone. 
What I don't like: Needs to be a better shooter and make fewer turnovers, 
and  his defense is a bit raw. 
Best case: Kevin Johnson 
10. _James Harden_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36072) , Arizona State 
What I like: Good competitor and a player you want with the game on the 
line.  Harden has a pretty diverse game on the offensive end. His body and game 
are  mature, and he gives and takes contact well. Harden knows how to 
score. 
What I don't like: Rarely goes right, not really a guard, and he is an  
average athlete.  
Best case: Manu Ginobili 
11. _Patty Mills_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=37525) , Saint Mary's 
With better players around him, Mills is a terror to contain. Apparently,  
scouts did not see the obvious difference in speed with the ball as he  
dismantled Steph Curry in the NIT, but among those who did -- and those watched  
the Olympics -- they get this ranking. The knocks against Mills are: 
1. He got hurt (it was his wrist in a freak fall, not a knee)
2. His  shooting can be erratic (sure, but he has improved steadily)
3. He is a  defensive liability (this is true, but that is due to effort, 
not skill)
12. _B.J. Mullens_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41747) , Ohio State 
Huge body and a vicious dunker in traffic. Mullins seems to be two years 
from  putting it together, but if/when he does, look out. He can shoot a 
pick-and-pop  and is fearless in terms of competition. 
13. _Tyreke Evans_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41608) , Memphis 
A great driver off the bounce, Evans uses his body really well. Decent 
passer  who showed a marked unselfishness in his stint at Memphis. The bad? No 
position,  finishes below the rim and is not a great athlete. Evans can 
score, but it will  take a good fit to work. 
14. _Earl Clark_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32006) , Louisville 
Long, skilled and athletic, Clark has all the vitals to be a 10-year NBA  
player. He has the ability to play either a long 3 or a face-up 4 and can 
guard  several positions. Clark is as up and down as the stock market, not from 
game to  game, but within each game. He seems to lack a basketball IQ to 
put it all  together. 
15. _Stephen Curry_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32284) , Davidson 
A prolific shooter with range and an improving off-the-dribble game. Curry  
has a prodigious work ethic, and his body and game seem to respond with  
substantial improvement. He is very comfortable on ball screens, as he is 
coming  off screens in order to shoot or show a deft passing touch. The problem 
is, he's  in between a 1 and a 2. He's a high-volume shooter who will have 
to adjust to  far fewer looks in the league and an average athlete who may 
struggle to contain  both positions. 
16. _James Johnson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36120) , Wake Forest 
Terrific build and skill set, and can score in bunches both inside and out. 
 Not as good an athlete as some may believe. Really struggles to guard on 
the  perimeter. 
17. _Gerald Henderson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31708) , Duke 
A poor man's Kobe who does a very good Kobe impression. (Remember when Kobe 
 used to talk like MJ?) Henderson is a terrific athlete who is an improving 
 shooter to go with his midrange game. 
18. _Toney Douglas_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=22111) , Florida State 
This year's Courtney Lee. Big-time scorer who can play the 1. Though not  
nearly as good a defender as his rep, will be able to contain other teams' 
point  guards with his lateral speed and strength. Additionally, Douglas is 
ready right  now to be a Ben Gordon-type of off the bench -- a guard who can 
give you points  in a hurry. 
19. _Damion James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31581) , Texas 
Uber-athlete who will be much better in an open court and with a viable 
point  guard. James can defend and rebound at a high level and his shot is not 
that far  off. 
20. _Gani Lawal_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36507) , Georgia Tech 
Played without a true point in college and that hurt his game and his 
team's  win total. Can block shots and board, and can score when given the ball 
and  space. A solid backup post in the NBA with a chance to eventually be a  
starter. 
21. _Darren Collison_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26892) , UCLA 
Very sound backup point guard who knows how to lead and win. Unlike Lawson, 
 he is very good off ball screens. Collison is slight of build and may 
never  start, but he is solid and sound and can really defend. 
22. _Derrick Brown_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26936) , Xavier 
Long, lean and really active, Brown can defend inside and out, is good on 
the  break and eventually will become a legit 3. His game is a bit 
unorthodox, but  that makes him better and more intriguing. His shot-blocking and 
tip-ins  sometimes go unnoticed. 

23. _Omri Casspi_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19144&draftyear=2009) , Israel 
Face-up 3 or 4 who must get stronger, but he is fearless at attacking the  
rim. Has a ton of valuable experience in the high-level Euro league that 
other  prospects have struggled in. 
24. _Terrence Williams_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27275) , Louisville 
Good player who does everything well, nothing great. Should be a fine 
passing  2 coming off the bench -- a guy who can play some point in a pinch. 
Versatility  makes him valuable. 
25. _Sam Young_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27299) , Pittsburgh 
Desmond Mason-type who is a great competitor and athlete. Needs to guard  
better on the perimeter with his feet, but will finish way above the rim and 
can  play some undersized 4. Will post smaller guards. 
26. _Eric Maynor_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27371) , VCU 
Great midrange pull-up shooter and a good leader. Does not handle, pass or  
shoot from distance as well as his rep, but a good point and productive 
player  to take late. 
27. _Wayne Ellington_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31606) , North Carolina 
Smooth wing who lacks the burst to be a legit lottery pick. 
28. _Marcus Thornton_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36182) , LSU 
Big-time scorer who goes on binges of 30-point games, but he is smaller 
than  listed and is not as consistent as needed to go higher. 
29. _Ty Lawson_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31608) , North Carolina 
Do not think I am hating on Lawson, but he is small and not as creative a  
playmaker as others in this draft. Lawson was great at Carolina and will 
play in  the league for a long while, but he most likely will be a backup for 
the vast  majority of his career. 
30. _Austin Daye_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36390) , Gonzaga 
Not sure what all the hubbub is about. Daye is young, thin and, yes, soft.  
Durant was weak at this stage too, but he wasn't soft. Daye looks like he 
has  the talent to be a star, but only a great team that can stow him away 
should  take the risk of waiting. 
Should be somewhere on  this list: _DeJuan Blair_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36578) , Pittsburgh 
Not sure where to put him since some teams have raised some health red 
flags.  One thing that is not in doubt: The man is a beast. Undersized but very 
long and  fearless. He does play below the rim, has terrible footwork 
guarding ball  screens and his shot needs some mechanical work, but he does 
comepete  hard at both ends, can score over either shoulder and is a winner. 
Period. 
Doug Gottlieb is a college basketball analyst for ESPN. The Doug Gottlieb  
can be heard weekdays from 4-7 ET on ESPN Radio and  ESPNradio.com
**************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s 
full line of laptops. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435
8%3Bv)

From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jun 10 19:29:09 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:29:09 -0700
Subject: Wallace
Message-ID: <4A2BEDA1-2A82-4EDD-8B11-D2D10878A7EF@verizon.net>

Can someone confirm whether chris Wallace was involved in the joe  
Johnson, chauncy billups trades along with Gasol for kwame brown,  
somebody they couldnt give away, and still has a job? Danny should be  
on the phone!

John


From eggcentric at aol.com  Wed Jun 10 21:05:01 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:05:01 -0400
Subject: Wallace
In-Reply-To: <4A2BEDA1-2A82-4EDD-8B11-D2D10878A7EF@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <2402638B.15BF.4598.A94C.E209DD68D562@aol.com>


On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:29:09 PM, "John Lyell" <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

an someone confirm whether chris Wallace was involved in the joe  
Johnson, chauncy billups trades along with Gasol for kwame brown,  
somebody they couldnt give away, and still has a job? Danny should be  
on the phone!

-?John Lyell

Yup, I'll confirm it.  Chris Wallace and Doc Rivers have two of the
best personalities in the NBA, and therefore will always have jobs.

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 21:48:20 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wallace
Message-ID: <781796.2277.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

an outsiders memory:? Wallace was reluctant on the Joe Johnson trade--that was OBrien's mistake; on Chauncey, it was Rick Pitino;? Gasol was Wallace's doing; just my memory.? Wallace is a good talent guy who should not be pulling the trigger.? Gene

--- On Wed, 6/10/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Wallace
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 4:05 PM


On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:29:09 PM, "John Lyell" <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

an someone confirm whether chris Wallace was involved in the joe? 
Johnson, chauncy billups trades along with Gasol for kwame brown,? 
somebody they couldnt give away, and still has a job? Danny should be? 
on the phone!

-?John Lyell

Yup, I'll confirm it.? Chris Wallace and Doc Rivers have two of the
best personalities in the NBA, and therefore will always have jobs.
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 21:53:44 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: good report, BDouglas
Message-ID: <91854.68563.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I read the scouting report with interest.? It makes me think Mullen, the big OSU guy is worth a lottery pick,? I also like his confirmation that Douglass of FSU is a player worth swooping in and taking in the twenties.? Good report on Sam Young and Derrick Brown, too.? I'll start making my list of hopefuls soon, so I can check them all off by the time we select.? Cheers, Gene



      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jun 11 00:50:40 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:50:40 -0700
Subject: Wallace
In-Reply-To: <2402638B.15BF.4598.A94C.E209DD68D562@aol.com>
References: <2402638B.15BF.4598.A94C.E209DD68D562@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6DBDE306-26C7-4D25-B6D5-F0A4DF4B0133@verizon.net>

Do ya think the logo had some input? "Pau for Kwame Brown, what a  
steal!" He has untapped potential!"


On Jun 10, 2009, at 2:05 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

>
> On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:29:09 PM, "John Lyell" <jlyell at verizon.net>  
> wrote:
>
> an someone confirm whether chris Wallace was involved in the joe
> Johnson, chauncy billups trades along with Gasol for kwame brown,
> somebody they couldnt give away, and still has a job? Danny should be
> on the phone!
>
> - John Lyell
>
> Yup, I'll confirm it.  Chris Wallace and Doc Rivers have two of the
> best personalities in the NBA, and therefore will always have jobs.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 01:02:06 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:02:06 -0400
Subject: Wallace
In-Reply-To: <6DBDE306-26C7-4D25-B6D5-F0A4DF4B0133@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <D12DA11D.C52C.4111.8A08.131C7D46EE18@aol.com>


On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:50:40 PM, "John Lyell" <jlyell at verizon.net> 
wrote:

Do ya think the logo had some input? "Pau for Kwame Brown, what a
steal!" He has untapped potential!"

Too bad the great Danny didn't do that trade.

From jeff at celticsblog.com  Thu Jun 11 18:36:46 2009
From: jeff at celticsblog.com (Jeff Clark)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:36:46 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
Message-ID: <84e131670906111136g537cd27dk9790829f2ffbd9e8@mail.gmail.com>

"Have heard the same trade offer along with many others." - Egg

care to share a sampling?

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From eggcentric at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 19:41:06 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:41:06 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906111136g537cd27dk9790829f2ffbd9e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F28137F4.DB7B.414C.A18B.7A0A83BB635A@aol.com>


On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:36:46 PM, "Jeff Clark" <jeff at celticsblog.com> wrote:

"Have heard the same trade offer along with many others." - Egg

care to share a sampling?

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com
------------


Dear Mr. Doughnut hole - no, I don't care to share. ?If I did I would have
created my own Celtics Blog. ?But thanks for asking. I'm flattered.

I must also admit, I?m proud of my track record in Celt draft predictions.?
Obviously?I don?t expect you or anyone else to search back to my 
past posts on this list. ?But if you did,?you would see that I predicted
Danny would draft - ?

Jefferson (2003)?

Banks (2004)?

Gomes/Greene (2005). Missed Gerald Green who fell to us?
from Heavan (or as it turned out, from Hell) while predicting?
Ainge would draft Gomes in 1st round and Orien Greene in?
2nd round.? Both were drafted in the second round.??My bad.?

Brandon Roy (2006).? Ainge instead drafted Foye?
(part of that tricky deal in which Minny stupidly then traded?
Roy for Foye and a few red sou) to acquire the troublesome?
Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a second-round pick?
in 2008 from Portland for Dickau, LaFrentz and draft?
rights to Foye. ?Later, Danny acknowledged had it not been 
for his misdirected Telfair?lust, he would have drafted Roy 
instead of Foye. ?And what a mistake that turned out to be.? 
Brandon Roy?for Telfair???? ?

Jeff Green (2007).? I predicted Jainlian who Danny later admitted?
he would have drafted instead of Green who he choose
for Seattle as one of three players we traded for Ray Allen.

Giddens (2008). Predicted Ainge would take him
on second round.? He was taken at end of the first 
round instead.

Not bad, eh?

Egg





From jeffclark at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 19:49:01 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:49:01 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <F28137F4.DB7B.414C.A18B.7A0A83BB635A@aol.com>
References: <84e131670906111136g537cd27dk9790829f2ffbd9e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<F28137F4.DB7B.414C.A18B.7A0A83BB635A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670906111249y45efe407v297476726c7ac4f8@mail.gmail.com>

you'll have to forgive me for being a bit of a noob on this board - I only
check in from time to time and I don't know everyone's history

FYI: I try not to post rumors on celticsblog unless they are posted by
established news sources (not that those are any more accurate any more
often) so I wasn't digging for stories, just a typical curious fan

2009/6/11 eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>

>
> On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:36:46 PM, "Jeff Clark" <jeff at celticsblog.com> wrote:
>
> "Have heard the same trade offer along with many others." - Egg
>
> care to share a sampling?
>
> --
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> ------------
>
>
> Dear Mr. Doughnut hole - no, I don't care to share.  If I did I would have
> created my own Celtics Blog.  But thanks for asking. I'm flattered.
>
> I must also admit, I?m proud of my track record in Celt draft predictions.
> Obviously I don?t expect you or anyone else to search back to my
> past posts on this list.  But if you did, you would see that I predicted
> Danny would draft -
>
> Jefferson (2003)
>
> Banks (2004)
>
> Gomes/Greene (2005). Missed Gerald Green who fell to us
> from Heavan (or as it turned out, from Hell) while predicting
> Ainge would draft Gomes in 1st round and Orien Greene in
> 2nd round.  Both were drafted in the second round.  My bad.
>
> Brandon Roy (2006).  Ainge instead drafted Foye
> (part of that tricky deal in which Minny stupidly then traded
> Roy for Foye and a few red sou) to acquire the troublesome
> Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a second-round pick
> in 2008 from Portland for Dickau, LaFrentz and draft
> rights to Foye.  Later, Danny acknowledged had it not been
> for his misdirected Telfair lust, he would have drafted Roy
> instead of Foye.  And what a mistake that turned out to be.
> Brandon Roy for Telfair????
>
> Jeff Green (2007).  I predicted Jainlian who Danny later admitted
> he would have drafted instead of Green who he choose
> for Seattle as one of three players we traded for Ray Allen.
>
> Giddens (2008). Predicted Ainge would take him
> on second round.  He was taken at end of the first
> round instead.
>
> Not bad, eh?
>
> Egg
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From eggcentric at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 19:53:36 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:53:36 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906111249y45efe407v297476726c7ac4f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52886D2D.2246.4642.99C3.648A36FE73F1@aol.com>

I appreciate your response, Jeff. ?However, i have attempted several
times over the past few years to sign on to your Celtics Blog only to be turned away,

Thus my hostility,, which runs pretty damn deep.

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 19:59:38 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:59:38 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <52886D2D.2246.4642.99C3.648A36FE73F1@aol.com>
References: <84e131670906111249y45efe407v297476726c7ac4f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<52886D2D.2246.4642.99C3.648A36FE73F1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670906111259r34a3af33r55ff41bd876c1326@mail.gmail.com>

LOL - did you get banned for something you did or is there a glitch keeping
you out?

if it is the latter, please email me directly and I'll do whatever I can to
take care of it

if it is the former, well, there's plenty of other places to talk Celtics,
like this fine list for instance!  :)

cheers

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:53 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> I appreciate your response, Jeff.  However, i have attempted several
> times over the past few years to sign on to your Celtics Blog only to be
> turned away,
>
> Thus my hostility,, which runs pretty damn deep.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From eggcentric at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 20:03:01 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:03:01 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906111259r34a3af33r55ff41bd876c1326@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78D3240E.28DE.4025.9674.C1E7011D73E2@aol.com>


On Jun 11, 2009, at 3:59:38 PM, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:

LOL - did you get banned for something you did or is there a glitch 
keeping
you out?
Must be a glitch. Couldn't get banned from a list I was never allowed 
on, could I?

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 20:04:54 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:04:54 -0400
Subject: Egg Rumors?
In-Reply-To: <78D3240E.28DE.4025.9674.C1E7011D73E2@aol.com>
References: <84e131670906111259r34a3af33r55ff41bd876c1326@mail.gmail.com>
	<78D3240E.28DE.4025.9674.C1E7011D73E2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670906111304v44cf599cs94f34aa9de1c2bf4@mail.gmail.com>

our mods are strict, but not THAT strict!

:)

lemme see what I can do

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

>
> On Jun 11, 2009, at 3:59:38 PM, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:
>
> LOL - did you get banned for something you did or is there a glitch keeping
> you out?
> Must be a glitch. Couldn't get banned from a list I was never allowed on,
> could I?
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 11 20:34:29 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: This is good news for the Celtics
Message-ID: <266534.3606.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


>From the Herald: "Celtics coach Doc Rivers said late last night that assistant coach Tom Thibodeau has taken his name out of the running for the head coaching job with Sacramento and will return to the Boston bench."




      


From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 21:18:00 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:18:00 -0400
Subject: This is good news for the Celtics
In-Reply-To: <266534.3606.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <266534.3606.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CBB8F13B9FCFFC-354-B6F@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>

That's interesting.? Out here in LA, the news yesterday was that Kurt Rambis turned the job down after it was offered to him.? For a long-time assistant to turn down?a head coaching job is pretty remarkable.


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 1:34 pm
Subject: This is good news for the Celtics




>From the Herald: "Celtics coach Doc Rivers said late last night that assistant 
coach Tom Thibodeau has taken his name out of the running for the head coaching 
job with Sacramento and will return to the Boston bench."




      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Thu Jun 11 22:08:03 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NBA Finals Format
Message-ID: <229085.71010.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

It will be interesting if Orlando win tonight and even the series at two games apiece.

With the NBA Finals format set-up with 3 games in-a-row in Orlando (because of flight times between the East and West Coast), the home court advantage could slightly shift in the Magic's favour.

If they win the next two games in Orlando then they only have to win one of the final two games in L.A.

Similar to last year, if the Lakers would have won all three games at home then they could have stole the Championship from us.

God bless that Game 4 comeback last year from 24 points down in the 2nd Quarter :)

Having said that, I expect L.A. to win one of the next 2 games in Orlando and then celebrate on their home court. They also have a very good chance of winning the next 2 games in Orlando, as they are a much better team.



      Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Thu Jun 11 22:06:42 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:06:42 -0400
Subject: This is good news for the Celtics
In-Reply-To: <8CBB8F13B9FCFFC-354-B6F@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <266534.3606.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CBB8F13B9FCFFC-354-B6F@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KL300L0MHL1U2W5@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:18 PM 6/11/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>That's interesting.? Out here in LA, the news yesterday was that 
>Kurt Rambis turned the job down after it was offered to him.? For a 
>long-time assistant to turn down?a head coaching job is pretty remarkable.

Not necessarily, depends on circs. Report I saw was that he turned it 
down largely because he is perceived as a likely heir apparent to 
Jackson, who probably isn't going to coach too many more years, for 
health reasons if no other. So he's not the cliche assistant 
desperate for any shot a la DJ when he took over the Clip joint, 
while which team ownership / management would you feel better about 
working for? And where is he likely to get a better contract...

Kim 


From BDodgers at aol.com  Thu Jun 11 23:34:11 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:34:11 EDT
Subject: Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
Message-ID: <be3.4630fc08.3762ee73@aol.com>

Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
By _Tim  Povtak_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/)  (_RSS 
feed_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/rss.xml) ) 


ORLANDO  -- As the backup to the best center in the _NBA_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/) , unheralded _Marcin Gortat _ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Marcin+Gortat+/) doesn't  cause much of a stir when he enters and leaves a game. 

He causes quite a  commotion, though, every night when he arrives and 
departs the arena. He has  arguably the loudest, fastest car in a league that is 
filled with players who  drive some of the fastest, sleekest, most elegant 
rides in  America.

"People in this country don't know me yet for my game, but  people around 
this town know my car,'' Gortat said as he was showing off his  ride to 
FanHouse. "I don't think there are any cars out on the street that could  beat 
me. I have an engine like something in NASCAR. This car is fast. It's  
perfect.'' 

Before he starts it, Gortat's car doesn't look any  different than any 
other car in parking lot filled with rich people. It's a new  BMW M5, shiny and 
black and looking like a million dollars.





But once he starts pulling away, you can hear and  feel the power, even at 
a distance. A part-time mechanic in his native Poland  before he signed his 
first NBA contract, Gortat has made myriad modifications to  the car that 
now includes an 800 horsepower engine, which is big even for a  
high-performance vehicle, and plenty of supercharged accessories. It makes the  Harley 
Davidson motorcycle driven by Magic general manager _Otis Smith_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Otis+Smith/)  sound  quiet.

"It could go over 200 mph, maybe 225 mph,'' he said. "I  don't want to 
drive that fast, but what matters is how quick it goes from 0-60.  I can pull up 
next to a Ferrari or Lamborghini at a light, look over, and they  might 
start laughing. But when it turns green, I'm gone, waiting at the next  light 
when they get there, and I'm the one laughing then.''

Gortat  admittedly has been stopped and ticketed a few times by law 
enforcement on the  streets of Central Florida, yet he still has a valid driver's 
license. He  usually gets only warnings now. His status as a Magic player in 
a one-sport town  doesn't hurt. And neither does his disarming, personable 
nature. He is a  likeable guy, well known around town.

"I shake my head every time I see  him pulling away,'' said one Seminole 
County (Fla) police officer who did not  want his name being used. "We all 
know who he is. But it's hard not to like  him.''

Gortat is in the second year of his original NBA contract, paying  him 
$711,000 this season. He often marvels at the fleet of cars owned by star  
center _Dwight Howard_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Dwight+Howard/)  ?  who is in 
the midst of an $80 million contract -- and the two joke about who has  the 
fastest car.

Every time he pulls away from the Magic's practice  facility or the arena, 
Gortat revs up the engine, reveling in the attention it  brings him. He is 
happy to offer you a test ride as a passenger, or a chance to  sit in the 
driver's seat and step on the accelerator just to feel the  power.

"Dwight has a $300,000 car with 600 horsepower. I have a $150,000  car with 
800 horsepower,'' he said. "Mine is like an airplane. It's something  I've 
always wanted. I probably have the fastest car in Florida, maybe in the  
NBA.''

Gortat is the only Polish-born player in the NBA, and just the  third 
player from Poland to reach the league. Since coming to the Magic in 2007  as a 
second-round pick, he has improved considerably this season. He is a free  
agent this summer, and there is likely a center-starved team in the league 
that  might make him a starter.

He has averaged just 11.4 minutes, 3.2 points,  3.4 minutes through the 
playoffs, but he played only a disappointing four  minutes in Game 3 against 
the Lakers Tuesday night.





The last time the Magic were in the NBA Finals,  Shaquille O'Neal would 
arrive at the arena with the music in his truck so loud  and with so much bass, 
that it would rattle the windows in nearby homes. Gortat  now arrives witho
ut the fanfare of O'Neal, but every bit the  commotion.

"_Rashard  Lewis_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Rashard+Lewis/)  has _his  
horses_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/04/28/rashard-lewis-in-the-kentucky-derby/) . Dwight has his fleet. _Adonal Foyle_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Adonal+Foyle/)  is buying an  island with his money,'' Gortat said. "I have my 
dream car. And it's  fast.''
**************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops 
starting at $449. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B
i)

From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 16:00:17 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
In-Reply-To: <be3.4630fc08.3762ee73@aol.com>
References: <be3.4630fc08.3762ee73@aol.com>
Message-ID: <220768.54091.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I certainly hope someone intoduces him to the Petrovic and Phills families.




________________________________
From: "BDodgers at aol.com" <BDodgers at aol.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:34:11 PM
Subject: Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA

Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
By _Tim? Povtak_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/)? (_RSS 
feed_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/rss.xml) ) 


ORLANDO? -- As the backup to the best center in the _NBA_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/) , unheralded _Marcin Gortat _ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Marcin+Gortat+/) doesn't? cause much of a stir when he enters and leaves a game. 

He causes quite a? commotion, though, every night when he arrives and 
departs the arena. He has? arguably the loudest, fastest car in a league that is 
filled with players who? drive some of the fastest, sleekest, most elegant 
rides in? America.

"People in this country don't know me yet for my game, but? people around 
this town know my car,'' Gortat said as he was showing off his? ride to 
FanHouse. "I don't think there are any cars out on the street that could? beat 
me. I have an engine like something in NASCAR. This car is fast. It's? 
perfect.'' 

Before he starts it, Gortat's car doesn't look any? different than any 
other car in parking lot filled with rich people. It's a new? BMW M5, shiny and 
black and looking like a million dollars.





But once he starts pulling away, you can hear and? feel the power, even at 
a distance. A part-time mechanic in his native Poland? before he signed his 
first NBA contract, Gortat has made myriad modifications to? the car that 
now includes an 800 horsepower engine, which is big even for a? 
high-performance vehicle, and plenty of supercharged accessories. It makes the? Harley 
Davidson motorcycle driven by Magic general manager _Otis Smith_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Otis+Smith/)? sound? quiet.

"It could go over 200 mph, maybe 225 mph,'' he said. "I? don't want to 
drive that fast, but what matters is how quick it goes from 0-60.? I can pull up 
next to a Ferrari or Lamborghini at a light, look over, and they? might 
start laughing. But when it turns green, I'm gone, waiting at the next? light 
when they get there, and I'm the one laughing then.''

Gortat? admittedly has been stopped and ticketed a few times by law 
enforcement on the? streets of Central Florida, yet he still has a valid driver's 
license. He? usually gets only warnings now. His status as a Magic player in 
a one-sport town? doesn't hurt. And neither does his disarming, personable 
nature. He is a? likeable guy, well known around town.

"I shake my head every time I see? him pulling away,'' said one Seminole 
County (Fla) police officer who did not? want his name being used. "We all 
know who he is. But it's hard not to like? him.''

Gortat is in the second year of his original NBA contract, paying? him 
$711,000 this season. He often marvels at the fleet of cars owned by star? 
center _Dwight Howard_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Dwight+Howard/)? ?? who is in 
the midst of an $80 million contract -- and the two joke about who has? the 
fastest car.

Every time he pulls away from the Magic's practice? facility or the arena, 
Gortat revs up the engine, reveling in the attention it? brings him. He is 
happy to offer you a test ride as a passenger, or a chance to? sit in the 
driver's seat and step on the accelerator just to feel the? power.

"Dwight has a $300,000 car with 600 horsepower. I have a $150,000? car with 
800 horsepower,'' he said. "Mine is like an airplane. It's something? I've 
always wanted. I probably have the fastest car in Florida, maybe in the? 
NBA.''

Gortat is the only Polish-born player in the NBA, and just the? third 
player from Poland to reach the league. Since coming to the Magic in 2007? as a 
second-round pick, he has improved considerably this season. He is a free? 
agent this summer, and there is likely a center-starved team in the league 
that? might make him a starter.

He has averaged just 11.4 minutes, 3.2 points,? 3.4 minutes through the 
playoffs, but he played only a disappointing four? minutes in Game 3 against 
the Lakers Tuesday night.





The last time the Magic were in the NBA Finals,? Shaquille O'Neal would 
arrive at the arena with the music in his truck so loud? and with so much bass, 
that it would rattle the windows in nearby homes. Gortat? now arrives witho
ut the fanfare of O'Neal, but every bit the? commotion.

"_Rashard? Lewis_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Rashard+Lewis/)? has _his? 
horses_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/04/28/rashard-lewis-in-the-kentucky-derby/) . Dwight has his fleet. _Adonal Foyle_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Adonal+Foyle/)? is buying an? island with his money,'' Gortat said. "I have my 
dream car. And it's? fast.''
**************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops 
starting at $449. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B
i)
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jun 12 16:57:58 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:57:58 -0400
Subject: Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
In-Reply-To: <220768.54091.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090612125758.T7AE0.52151.imail@eastrmwml28>

Didn't Petrovic die on the Autobahn the same year as Reggie did?

---- asterix ninetynine <asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> I certainly hope someone intoduces him to the Petrovic and Phills families.




________________________________
From: "BDodgers at aol.com" <BDodgers at aol.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:34:11 PM
Subject: Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA

Marcin Gortat Drives Fastest Car in NBA
By _Tim? Povtak_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/)? (_RSS 
feed_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tim-povtak/rss.xml) ) 


ORLANDO? -- As the backup to the best center in the _NBA_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/) , unheralded _Marcin Gortat _ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Marcin+Gortat+/) doesn't? cause much of a stir when he enters and leaves a game. 

He causes quite a? commotion, though, every night when he arrives and 
departs the arena. He has? arguably the loudest, fastest car in a league that is 
filled with players who? drive some of the fastest, sleekest, most elegant 
rides in? America.

"People in this country don't know me yet for my game, but? people around 
this town know my car,'' Gortat said as he was showing off his? ride to 
FanHouse. "I don't think there are any cars out on the street that could? beat 
me. I have an engine like something in NASCAR. This car is fast. It's? 
perfect.'' 

Before he starts it, Gortat's car doesn't look any? different than any 
other car in parking lot filled with rich people. It's a new? BMW M5, shiny and 
black and looking like a million dollars.





But once he starts pulling away, you can hear and? feel the power, even at 
a distance. A part-time mechanic in his native Poland? before he signed his 
first NBA contract, Gortat has made myriad modifications to? the car that 
now includes an 800 horsepower engine, which is big even for a? 
high-performance vehicle, and plenty of supercharged accessories. It makes the? Harley 
Davidson motorcycle driven by Magic general manager _Otis Smith_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Otis+Smith/)? sound? quiet.

"It could go over 200 mph, maybe 225 mph,'' he said. "I? don't want to 
drive that fast, but what matters is how quick it goes from 0-60.? I can pull up 
next to a Ferrari or Lamborghini at a light, look over, and they? might 
start laughing. But when it turns green, I'm gone, waiting at the next? light 
when they get there, and I'm the one laughing then.''

Gortat? admittedly has been stopped and ticketed a few times by law 
enforcement on the? streets of Central Florida, yet he still has a valid driver's 
license. He? usually gets only warnings now. His status as a Magic player in 
a one-sport town? doesn't hurt. And neither does his disarming, personable 
nature. He is a? likeable guy, well known around town.

"I shake my head every time I see? him pulling away,'' said one Seminole 
County (Fla) police officer who did not? want his name being used. "We all 
know who he is. But it's hard not to like? him.''

Gortat is in the second year of his original NBA contract, paying? him 
$711,000 this season. He often marvels at the fleet of cars owned by star? 
center _Dwight Howard_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Dwight+Howard/)? ?? who is in 
the midst of an $80 million contract -- and the two joke about who has? the 
fastest car.

Every time he pulls away from the Magic's practice? facility or the arena, 
Gortat revs up the engine, reveling in the attention it? brings him. He is 
happy to offer you a test ride as a passenger, or a chance to? sit in the 
driver's seat and step on the accelerator just to feel the? power.

"Dwight has a $300,000 car with 600 horsepower. I have a $150,000? car with 
800 horsepower,'' he said. "Mine is like an airplane. It's something? I've 
always wanted. I probably have the fastest car in Florida, maybe in the? 
NBA.''

Gortat is the only Polish-born player in the NBA, and just the? third 
player from Poland to reach the league. Since coming to the Magic in 2007? as a 
second-round pick, he has improved considerably this season. He is a free? 
agent this summer, and there is likely a center-starved team in the league 
that? might make him a starter.

He has averaged just 11.4 minutes, 3.2 points,? 3.4 minutes through the 
playoffs, but he played only a disappointing four? minutes in Game 3 against 
the Lakers Tuesday night.





The last time the Magic were in the NBA Finals,? Shaquille O'Neal would 
arrive at the arena with the music in his truck so loud? and with so much bass, 
that it would rattle the windows in nearby homes. Gortat? now arrives witho
ut the fanfare of O'Neal, but every bit the? commotion.

"_Rashard? Lewis_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Rashard+Lewis/)? has _his? 
horses_ 
(http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/04/28/rashard-lewis-in-the-kentucky-derby/) . Dwight has his fleet. _Adonal Foyle_ 
(http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Adonal+Foyle/)? is buying an? island with his money,'' Gortat said. "I have my 
dream car. And it's? fast.''
**************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops 
starting at $449. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B
i)
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Fri Jun 12 21:00:53 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:00:53 EDT
Subject: Jennings calls Rubio 'all hype'
Message-ID: <c73.53a10e7c.37641c05@aol.com>

    Scott Howard-Cooper >  
INSIDE THE NBA
 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/scott_howard-cooper/archive/) 

     
Jennings calls Rubio 'all hype'
 
Story Highlights 
Brandon Jennings said fellow draft prospect Ricky Rubio  is overhyped
Jennings on Rubio: "Yeah, I think I'm a better player  than he is"
Jennings played against Rubio once this season in  Europe


 
By Scott Howard-Cooper, SI.com     
 
 





 



SACRAMENTO -- Highly touted draft prospect Brandon  Jennings called Spanish 
sensation and potential No. 2 pick Ricky  Rubio overhyped and not even the 
top point guard in the draft.   
"Well, put it like this: If he was in a workout with me  [and fellow point 
guard prospects] Jonny Flynn, Jrue  Holiday, Tywon Lawson, Stephen Curry, he 
wouldn't  probably be at the top," Jennings said Friday. 
Jennings made his comments after a workout for the  _Sacramento Kings_ 
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/kings)  that also 
included point  guards Flynn from Syracuse and Holiday from UCLA.  
When asked if he thought Rubio, who has received great  attention but has 
refused to work out for NBA teams, is all hype, he said  without hesitation, 
"Yes. Because he played in the Olympics, he's been  playing pro ball since 
he was like 14. So there it is right there. ... I  can't wait to play him, 
though, in summer league. I'm just letting you  know that now. I can't wait. 
"Yeah, I think I'm a better player than he is. I just  shoot the ball 
better than he can. The only thing I've seen him do  sometimes is when he has a 
home-run pass or something like that. I think  the dude is just all hype. I 
can't even front. I'm just going to be real  with you guys." 
Jennings, a likely top 10 pick who bypassed the NCAA to  play 
professionally in Rome, played Rubio and DKV Joventut once last  season in Spain. When 
asked how the matchup went, Jennings said, "Well,  when I played him, he had 
zero points, two assists and two turnovers. So  you tell me how that  went."
**************Shop Dell?s full line of Laptops now starting at $349! 
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From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 21:01:36 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
Message-ID: <81564.86077.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Via Celtics Blog/Chad Ford
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftBuzz-090612

"While the Celtics have shot down a rumor that they were talking to the Suns about an Amare Stoudemire for Rajon Rondo swap ? we keep hearing their name more and more in conjunction with a top-to-mid first-round draft pick -- a sign that Danny Ainge must see someone he likes up high.

While various sources have different players pegged, there seems to be some consensus that one player in particular -- Memphis' Tyreke Evans -- is an Ainge favorite.

If the Celtics are going to get Evans, they'll have to get somewhere in the top 10, most likely the top five.

The Grizzlies, Thunder and Wizards all have picks in the top five and have been open to swapping their picks. While it's doubtful that Rondo is their bait, Ray Allen and his expiring contract could be.

The Celtics could trade Allen to Memphis for a combination of Darko Milicic, Greg Buckner and Marko Jaric. That could save the Grizzlies a little money now and a lot of money next year ? but that seems like a stretch. The Grizzlies don't need Allen and I'm sure he wouldn't be thrilled to play there.

The Thunder aren't great partners either. They don't really have any bad contracts and while Allen would give them a nice veteran perimeter presence, they're not giving up the No. 3 pick in the draft to get him.

The Kings have also reached out to the Celtics and would be willing to deal the No. 4 pick if they could get Rondo in return. The Celtics would likely want more than just the No. 4 pick for Rondo -- and the Kings might be willing to throw in either Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes to make it happen.

That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing. Allen is a fit in Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is looking for another piece to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year of his contract, which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap relief if they put together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the Wizards and Celtics?

If Boston can't find a workable deal in the top five, several other teams including the Nets (11), Pistons (15), Bulls (16, 26), Wolves (18), Kings (23) and Grizzlies (27) are open to moving their picks. While those wouldn't be high enough to land Evans, it would get the Celtics a solid pick in the first."

Via Real GM:

"Chad Ford is reporting a rumor that the Celtics are floating Ray Allen's expiring contract for a Top 5 or Top 10 pick to get Tyreke Evans who apparently Danny is in love with. He cited the Wizards as the most likely partner for money and roster reasons (Arenas, Ray, Butler and Jamison would be an offensive juggernaut). I don't buy it, and if it is true, I would rather have it be James Harden than Tyreke. Harden is a surefire NBA starter at the two, Evans is a high risk pick for whoever drafts him."




      


From BDodgers at aol.com  Fri Jun 12 22:04:13 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:04:13 EDT
Subject: Tyreke Evans - 2009 NBA Draft Prospect 
Message-ID: <c15.3f41f3ed.37642add@aol.com>

 
 
Tyreke Evans - 2009 NBA Draft Prospect 

 
 
 


 
     Tyreke Evans
_Shooting Guard_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/position?id=2&draftyear=2009)  (Rank: #7) | 6-5, 220 | Age:  19 
_Memphis_ 
(http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/school?id=235&draftyear=2009)  (Freshman)
Hometown: Aston,  PA        You are signed into Insider  and have access to 
the  exclusive draft content below.      Season Averages  YR GMS MIN PTS 
REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS  2008-09 37 29.0 17.1 5.4 3.9 3.6 
1.1/1 2.1 0.8 2.4 .455 .711 .274 1.25   
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41608)  
Draft  Projection: Lottery

Similarities: Jerry  Stackhouse

Notes: Evans announced on April 20 that he will  declare for the 2009 NBA 
Draft. He has hired Arn Tellem as his agent.   

Positives:        Evans has the  talent to be a lottery pick.
(AP Photo/Andres Leighton)  

Classic 2-guard  NBA body, strong  Huge 6-foot-11 wingspan  Scorer's 
mentality  Relentless driver  Quick first step  Decent midrange jumper  Excellent 
ball handler  Quick with the ball in his hands

Negatives:  

Can be selfish  Over-dribbles  Lacks consistent range on his jump shot  Not 
a super explosive leaper  Poor shot selection  

Summary: Jun 12 Update: The other two candidates for  the Kings' pick -- 
James Harden and Evans -- have already been in. Evans  struggled with his shot 
and may have shot himself in the foot in an  interview when he complained 
about not being able to work out against  other players, but then 
subsequently balked when the Kings offered to put  Terrence Williams in a workout 
against him. So much for my latest mock  draft that has Evans at No. 4. However, 
if the Celtics were to somehow get  into the Top 6, it's likely Evans would 
be their pick.  
May 29 Update: Evans had  the most impressive measurements of the camp. He 
stands just 6-4 in socks  and 6-5? in shoes. But he had a terrific 6-11? 
wingspan and an awesome 8-8  standing reach, both bests among guards in the 
camp.  
Apr 20 Update: Evans has made the argument over the  last two weeks of the 
season that he, not Willie Warren, is the best  freshman in college 
basketball. He capped off a great tournament with a  spectacular 33-point 
performance against Missouri. Although it came in a  losing effort, Evans showed off 
some big-time moves driving to the basket  -- his ability to change 
directions and finish is amazing. Combine that  with his long arms and NBA body, and 
Evans has great appeal as an NBA  scorer who can get his own shot. On the 
other hand, the tournament also  highlighted Evans' weaknesses. He still 
struggles with his jump shot,  plays out of control and sometimes forgets that he 
has four teammates on  the floor. Evans just announced that he's declaring 
for the draft. I  expect him to go somewhere between 8 and 14 on draft 
night.  
Mar 18 Update: NBA teams like the physical package,  but there's concern 
about how effective he'll be in the NBA without a  solid jump shot. He 
probably is a mid-to-late first-round pick, but a big  tournament could boost him 
into the lottery.  
Jan 23 Update:Evans has been all over our draft  board this season. He was 
hyped as one of the most NBA-ready freshmen in  the country, but bombed out 
of the gate with poor shooting, poorer shot  selection and a plethora of 
turnovers. Then John Calipari moved him to the  point ... and suddenly Evans 
looks like a legit prospect again. I don't  think Evans will play the point in 
the pros, but he is one of those guards  who needs the ball in his hands to 
create. A lot of scouts are still  unsure about him, but the talent is 
there, and many of the execs I spoke  with think he'll go somewhere between 15 
and 25 if he declares for the  draft this year. If Evans has his sights 
higher, he'll have to start  hitting jumpers or wait another year.  
Jan. 2 update: Evans came on to the college scene  with a lot of hype. He 
had a mature game and was expected to be one of the  few one-and-dones among 
this season's freshmen crop. He was even featured  as one of ESPN the 
Magazine's NEXT athletes. The problem is, despite a  solid scoring average, scouts 
haven't been impressed. Evans' shot  selection and high turnover rate, 
combined with Memphis' slow start, have  many scouts and even more GMs wondering 
if he's a team player. He has  slipped from a late lottery prospect to a 
guy who would probably get  drafted in the 20s if he declared for the draft 
right  now.




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From jeffclark at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 00:53:49 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:53:49 -0400
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
In-Reply-To: <81564.86077.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <81564.86077.qm@web110107.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670906121753w6f30775du49c21fdf8016e06d@mail.gmail.com>

Where there's smoke,...

I think a lot of Ford's ideas are very flawed, but I'm now more sure than
ever that Danny is indeed shopping Ray.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Via Celtics Blog/Chad Ford
>
> http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftBuzz-090612
>
> "While the Celtics have shot down a rumor that they were talking to the
> Suns about an Amare Stoudemire for Rajon Rondo swap ? we keep hearing their
> name more and more in conjunction with a top-to-mid first-round draft pick
> -- a sign that Danny Ainge must see someone he likes up high.
>
> While various sources have different players pegged, there seems to be some
> consensus that one player in particular -- Memphis' Tyreke Evans -- is an
> Ainge favorite.
>
> If the Celtics are going to get Evans, they'll have to get somewhere in the
> top 10, most likely the top five.
>
> The Grizzlies, Thunder and Wizards all have picks in the top five and have
> been open to swapping their picks. While it's doubtful that Rondo is their
> bait, Ray Allen and his expiring contract could be.
>
> The Celtics could trade Allen to Memphis for a combination of Darko
> Milicic, Greg Buckner and Marko Jaric. That could save the Grizzlies a
> little money now and a lot of money next year ? but that seems like a
> stretch. The Grizzlies don't need Allen and I'm sure he wouldn't be thrilled
> to play there.
>
> The Thunder aren't great partners either. They don't really have any bad
> contracts and while Allen would give them a nice veteran perimeter presence,
> they're not giving up the No. 3 pick in the draft to get him.
>
> The Kings have also reached out to the Celtics and would be willing to deal
> the No. 4 pick if they could get Rondo in return. The Celtics would likely
> want more than just the No. 4 pick for Rondo -- and the Kings might be
> willing to throw in either Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes to make it
> happen.
>
> That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing. Allen is a fit in
> Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is looking for another piece
> to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year of his contract,
> which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap relief if they put
> together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan Thomas, Mike James,
> Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the Wizards and Celtics?
>
> If Boston can't find a workable deal in the top five, several other teams
> including the Nets (11), Pistons (15), Bulls (16, 26), Wolves (18), Kings
> (23) and Grizzlies (27) are open to moving their picks. While those wouldn't
> be high enough to land Evans, it would get the Celtics a solid pick in the
> first."
>
> Via Real GM:
>
> "Chad Ford is reporting a rumor that the Celtics are floating Ray Allen's
> expiring contract for a Top 5 or Top 10 pick to get Tyreke Evans who
> apparently Danny is in love with. He cited the Wizards as the most likely
> partner for money and roster reasons (Arenas, Ray, Butler and Jamison would
> be an offensive juggernaut). I don't buy it, and if it is true, I would
> rather have it be James Harden than Tyreke. Harden is a surefire NBA starter
> at the two, Evans is a high risk pick for whoever drafts him."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 02:15:17 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: If the Celtics trade Ray Allen for a lottery pick ...
Message-ID: <702796.57552.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


it will be a clear indication they're not serious about winning a championship before the window closes on the Garnett/Pierce era. 

Evans is a 6'4 college freshman who's compared to Jerry Stackhouse? Be still my heart. 


      


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 02:55:52 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
Message-ID: <472516.59766.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

l.? Floating Ray makes teams listen, but are the lottery folks going to pull the trigger for a 32 year old who didn't have but one great game in the playoffs (a losing effort at that) or will they build for future?
2.? Is Ainge building for the next run if he's truly seeking a 20 year old with "potential?"
3.? Does Ainge want to force Doc to play Tony?? Only I would come up with that, eh?
4.? Does Ainge think Bill Walker is ready for 25 plus minutes?? If not, who is?? A rookie?
5.? Isn't this just good preparation for the draft with ramifications of free-agent maneuvering to follow?? With the money saved, we could sign Rondo and Davis.
6.? Would such a deal allow us to throw in Scal (I wouldn't want to except for the money) or Giddens or whoever?? 
7.? Assuming Kevin can play in next year's playoffs, do we think we can win without Ray?? And if we are without KG or PP, are we going to lose anyway?? So we go for a rough diamond in the draft??
Oh, well.? I really like Ray and think he's good for a few more great years; plus, the better Rondo gets, the better Ray performs, but he's expensive.? Cheers, Gene



      

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 03:18:07 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:18:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: on Evans and others' schools
Message-ID: <863337.29194.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I must admit to a prejudice against several programs and at the top of the list is Memphis.? Cincinnati, Georgetown, Texas, and Alabama, Louisville plus even Florida make me leery.? Probably for different reasons, not necessarily the quality of the coaching, but I don't think you can trust that their best is equal to that of other quality programs.? There are exceptions: Kevin Durant for sure, but I'm not high on Texas' James this year.? Much of it, I think, is that the schools recruit big "talent", low IQ guys.? They're like my guy Tony Allen, for example (who I still claim has a high BB IQ, but low reality quotient).? When Alabama has someone big and athletic, they can be really good like McDyess, but the quality varies too greatly.? Florida won some championships, but few of their guys have risen to the top (or am I forgetting someone?)? I'm leery of Evans just because he sounds like an athlete who hasn't put it together teamwise and Memphis
 scares me.? OK, that's my prejudice.? Gene



      

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sat Jun 13 03:38:21 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:38:21 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <472516.59766.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <472516.59766.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KL500AMDRG7B5N4@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

At 10:55 PM 6/12/2009, gene kirkpatrick wrote:
>l.  Floating Ray makes teams listen, but are the lottery folks going 
>to pull the trigger for a 32 year old who didn't have but one great 
>game in the playoffs (a losing effort at that) or will they build for future?

Can't trade Ray for a draft pick, has to be part of a bigger deal 
which might change the answer to this. Age and / or minutes are not 
the sole reason for Ray's playoff production no matter how much 
people try to make out they are. On a different team he could benefit 
from being a primary focus of the offense again, creating a radical 
difference in results

>2.  Is Ainge building for the next run if he's truly seeking a 20 
>year old with "potential?"

He's been building for it all along while trying to win now, don't 
understand the question. That's why the big contracts expiring sequentially.

>3.  Does Ainge want to force Doc to play Tony?  Only I would come up 
>with that, eh?

No you aren't, but by this point the only one who can force Doc to 
play Tony (if he is still here) is Tony. Unfortunately Tony has made 
it impossible to play him when he's been given minutes.

Look, Gene, I know you're a big fan, but this just isn't Tony's kind 
of team. Even Tony at his best. It's too structured and Tony is not a 
good team defender at all. He is a man defender, not good on switches 
and doubles and that's what this team plays. While he's an offensive 
disaster - a turnover / violation waiting to happen who pounds the 
ball into the floor rather than looking to move it and can drive but 
no longer reliably finish. Tony's best chance to salvage his career 
at this point is to go to a younger team that plays more helter 
skelter. Nothing to do with Doc's willingness or lack thereof to give 
him minutes. Everyone points to that magical period when Pierce went 
down and Tony was all world, but stop and think the sort of ball they 
played then - pure schoolyard with Tony having complete control of 
the ball and no one else good enough for it to matter that he 
wouldn't even look to give it up.

>4.  Does Ainge think Bill Walker is ready for 25 plus minutes?  If 
>not, who is?  A rookie?

It isn't even open season to sign FA yet, plus again if you trade Ray 
you have to take salary back, which will come with a body or 2 or 3 
or 5. Little early to decide this, no? Besides which Walker's game is 
more a 3, i.e. back up Pierce, rather than a 2 like Ray.

>5.  Isn't this just good preparation for the draft with 
>ramifications of free-agent maneuvering to follow?  With the money 
>saved, we could sign Rondo and Davis.

No we can't. You can't just dump Ray's salary, you have to take 
something back. That might help with Rondo who is signed for next 
season if it's an expiring contract to free money the year after but 
nothing to do with Davis. Getting rid of Ray's salary even if we 
could just dump it still doesn't put us under the cap so all we have 
is the same exceptions we already have for FA, whether our own or 
from someone else.

>6.  Would such a deal allow us to throw in Scal (I wouldn't want to 
>except for the money) or Giddens or whoever?

Depends on the deal and what we take back in return. God I can't wait 
for Scal to be gone one way or another just so I no longer have to 
listen to this obsession with getting rid of Scal as the first thing 
anyone talks about whenever they talk deal.

>7.  Assuming Kevin can play in next year's playoffs, do we think we 
>can win without Ray?  And if we are without KG or PP, are we going 
>to lose anyway?  So we go for a rough diamond in the draft??

Isn't it a little early to plan on next year's playoffs when we 
haven't even set next season's team

Kim  


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 04:29:15 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
Message-ID: <822976.69384.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


"Shopping" is too pejorative a term because it implies he wants to get rid of him.  I don't think that's the case.  Danny's just doing his due diligence and exploring Ray's value around the league.  

Ty Evans is a lot like Rondo.  Freaky long arms, great penetrator and junk-shot maker within 10 feet of the hoop, and has questionable jump shot abilities from distance (and some funky form).  Rondo is more of a pure point guard, while Ty has legit 2-guard size.  Just like Rondo, he's a gambler on defense as well.  Evans also has great vision as a passer, but can over-dribble at times.  It's important to note that Memphis went on a huge run and started playing it's best ball of the season exactly when Evans took over as full-time point.

A Rondo/Evans backcourt doesn't seem like a good mix--both need the ball to be effective, both have problems shooting from distance, both like to gamble on defense.

I like Evans, but he doesn't seem to be a fit on this team.  

Ryan

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 7:53 PM
> Where there's smoke,...
> 
> I think a lot of Ford's ideas are very flawed, but I'm now
> more sure than
> ever that Danny is indeed shopping Ray.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Via Celtics Blog/Chad Ford
> >
> > http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftBuzz-090612
> >
> > "While the Celtics have shot down a rumor that they
> were talking to the
> > Suns about an Amare Stoudemire for Rajon Rondo swap
> ? we keep hearing their
> > name more and more in conjunction with a top-to-mid
> first-round draft pick
> > -- a sign that Danny Ainge must see someone he likes
> up high.
> >
> > While various sources have different players pegged,
> there seems to be some
> > consensus that one player in particular -- Memphis'
> Tyreke Evans -- is an
> > Ainge favorite.
> >
> > If the Celtics are going to get Evans, they'll have to
> get somewhere in the
> > top 10, most likely the top five.
> >
> > The Grizzlies, Thunder and Wizards all have picks in
> the top five and have
> > been open to swapping their picks. While it's doubtful
> that Rondo is their
> > bait, Ray Allen and his expiring contract could be.
> >
> > The Celtics could trade Allen to Memphis for a
> combination of Darko
> > Milicic, Greg Buckner and Marko Jaric. That could save
> the Grizzlies a
> > little money now and a lot of money next year ? but
> that seems like a
> > stretch. The Grizzlies don't need Allen and I'm sure
> he wouldn't be thrilled
> > to play there.
> >
> > The Thunder aren't great partners either. They don't
> really have any bad
> > contracts and while Allen would give them a nice
> veteran perimeter presence,
> > they're not giving up the No. 3 pick in the draft to
> get him.
> >
> > The Kings have also reached out to the Celtics and
> would be willing to deal
> > the No. 4 pick if they could get Rondo in return. The
> Celtics would likely
> > want more than just the No. 4 pick for Rondo -- and
> the Kings might be
> > willing to throw in either Jason Thompson or Spencer
> Hawes to make it
> > happen.
> >
> > That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing.
> Allen is a fit in
> > Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is
> looking for another piece
> > to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year
> of his contract,
> > which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap
> relief if they put
> > together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan
> Thomas, Mike James,
> > Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the
> Wizards and Celtics?
> >
> > If Boston can't find a workable deal in the top five,
> several other teams
> > including the Nets (11), Pistons (15), Bulls (16, 26),
> Wolves (18), Kings
> > (23) and Grizzlies (27) are open to moving their
> picks. While those wouldn't
> > be high enough to land Evans, it would get the Celtics
> a solid pick in the
> > first."
> >
> > Via Real GM:
> >
> > "Chad Ford is reporting a rumor that the Celtics are
> floating Ray Allen's
> > expiring contract for a Top 5 or Top 10 pick to get
> Tyreke Evans who
> > apparently Danny is in love with. He cited the Wizards
> as the most likely
> > partner for money and roster reasons (Arenas, Ray,
> Butler and Jamison would
> > be an offensive juggernaut). I don't buy it, and if it
> is true, I would
> > rather have it be James Harden than Tyreke. Harden is
> a surefire NBA starter
> > at the two, Evans is a high risk pick for whoever
> drafts him."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Jun 13 05:37:37 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
In-Reply-To: <822976.69384.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <822976.69384.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <398050.33530.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It makes a lot of sense for most of these teams to move a pick for a veteran

Is it really James Harden or?Stefen?Curry or Demar Derozan?

I would prefer a proven commodity like Ben Gordon, but danny has done wel at talent evaluation


?



________________________________
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:29:15 PM
Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans


"Shopping" is too pejorative a term because it implies he wants to get rid of him.? I don't think that's the case.? Danny's just doing his due diligence and exploring Ray's value around the league.? 

Ty Evans is a lot like Rondo.? Freaky long arms, great penetrator and junk-shot maker within 10 feet of the hoop, and has questionable jump shot abilities from distance (and some funky form).? Rondo is more of a pure point guard, while Ty has legit 2-guard size.? Just like Rondo, he's a gambler on defense as well.? Evans also has great vision as a passer, but can over-dribble at times.? It's important to note that Memphis went on a huge run and started playing it's best ball of the season exactly when Evans took over as full-time point.

A Rondo/Evans backcourt doesn't seem like a good mix--both need the ball to be effective, both have problems shooting from distance, both like to gamble on defense.

I like Evans, but he doesn't seem to be a fit on this team.? 

Ryan

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 7:53 PM
> Where there's smoke,...
> 
> I think a lot of Ford's ideas are very flawed, but I'm now
> more sure than
> ever that Danny is indeed shopping Ray.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Via Celtics Blog/Chad Ford
> >
> > http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftBuzz-090612
> >
> > "While the Celtics have shot down a rumor that they
> were talking to the
> > Suns about an Amare Stoudemire for Rajon Rondo swap
> ? we keep hearing their
> > name more and more in conjunction with a top-to-mid
> first-round draft pick
> > -- a sign that Danny Ainge must see someone he likes
> up high.
> >
> > While various sources have different players pegged,
> there seems to be some
> > consensus that one player in particular -- Memphis'
> Tyreke Evans -- is an
> > Ainge favorite.
> >
> > If the Celtics are going to get Evans, they'll have to
> get somewhere in the
> > top 10, most likely the top five.
> >
> > The Grizzlies, Thunder and Wizards all have picks in
> the top five and have
> > been open to swapping their picks. While it's doubtful
> that Rondo is their
> > bait, Ray Allen and his expiring contract could be.
> >
> > The Celtics could trade Allen to Memphis for a
> combination of Darko
> > Milicic, Greg Buckner and Marko Jaric. That could save
> the Grizzlies a
> > little money now and a lot of money next year ? but
> that seems like a
> > stretch. The Grizzlies don't need Allen and I'm sure
> he wouldn't be thrilled
> > to play there.
> >
> > The Thunder aren't great partners either. They don't
> really have any bad
> > contracts and while Allen would give them a nice
> veteran perimeter presence,
> > they're not giving up the No. 3 pick in the draft to
> get him.
> >
> > The Kings have also reached out to the Celtics and
> would be willing to deal
> > the No. 4 pick if they could get Rondo in return. The
> Celtics would likely
> > want more than just the No. 4 pick for Rondo -- and
> the Kings might be
> > willing to throw in either Jason Thompson or Spencer
> Hawes to make it
> > happen.
> >
> > That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing.
> Allen is a fit in
> > Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is
> looking for another piece
> > to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year
> of his contract,
> > which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap
> relief if they put
> > together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan
> Thomas, Mike James,
> > Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the
> Wizards and Celtics?
> >
> > If Boston can't find a workable deal in the top five,
> several other teams
> > including the Nets (11), Pistons (15), Bulls (16, 26),
> Wolves (18), Kings
> > (23) and Grizzlies (27) are open to moving their
> picks. While those wouldn't
> > be high enough to land Evans, it would get the Celtics
> a solid pick in the
> > first."
> >
> > Via Real GM:
> >
> > "Chad Ford is reporting a rumor that the Celtics are
> floating Ray Allen's
> > expiring contract for a Top 5 or Top 10 pick to get
> Tyreke Evans who
> > apparently Danny is in love with. He cited the Wizards
> as the most likely
> > partner for money and roster reasons (Arenas, Ray,
> Butler and Jamison would
> > be an offensive juggernaut). I don't buy it, and if it
> is true, I would
> > rather have it be James Harden than Tyreke. Harden is
> a surefire NBA starter
> > at the two, Evans is a high risk pick for whoever
> drafts him."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 12:54:16 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gk_tyler at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 05:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
Message-ID: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the good answers Kim.? You always put this kind of subject within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.? A key concern is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the future and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).? Losing Ray and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.? Other players in the deal may or not mitigate that.? As you pointed out, Walker is a three--moreso than even Paul.

You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of Tony's dilemma.? It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal that he can play but is a space-cadet.? I remember going ballistic when Joe Johnson was traded.? Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al Jefferson--while
 intellectually understanding it.? But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade of Tony.? 

I don't think it's to early to focus on next year's playoffs, unless we trade the entire big three for draft pieces.? We're a cinch to be a top 3 or 4 team in the East; it's all about the few pieces we can add to win it all again.

Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I would want out of the top ten.? Harden doesn't impress me, though his buildup indicates others really like him.? Curry brings little more than a streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.? The point guards we don't need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch time.? Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the other players involved are capable of being great subs.

?I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the draft.? Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the draft.? Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade him?? Gene






      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Sat Jun 13 13:23:47 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:23:47 -0400
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906121753w6f30775du49c21fdf8016e06d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EEDA79A.2993.4EE3.87D2.3C64F34E7805@aol.com>

< I think a lot of Ford's ideas are very flawed, but?
I'm now more sure than ever that Danny is indeed shopping Ray.>
-Jeff Clark

Glad to see you are networking, and now a member of this list as 
well as others.?And thanks for your help in finally getting me on your
CelticsBlog.com. ?It's not the easiest website to sign up for/navigate.

FWIW, i agree with both of your above points. I have mentioned several 
times?on this IGTC List that Ray Allen is the one who is being shopped?
(ooops, dirty word here, I mean discussed/brought up in trades.)

I also agree that several/most of Ford?s ideas are flawed.
Why in God?s name would Danny trade Ray Allen for three mediocre
if not over-the-hill players of little help (Etan Thomas, Mike James),
Darius Songaila who Danny already traded away,?
and a questionable No. 5 pick?? Fool?s gold??

Still, I wouldn?t put it past Danny to go after yet another
ath-e-letic/high upside head case like Tyreke Evans as he has?
several times done before with Banks, Tony Allen, Gerald Green,?
Brandon hunter, Greg Pruitt, Orien Greene,?his trade for?
Telfair, Ricky Davis, and so many other inept and costly
ath=a-letic "upside" free agents?he has brought in. ?For a guy
Ainge, who?like a Lassy has gone this way and?that way and this
way and that way, and who sold his soul for upside athletisim,
how come we are?so damn slow and so damn old right now??

I just haven?t heard that Evans is the guy Ainge is after what?
with all our other positional needs and cap problems. ?
Appreciated?Gene?s?post?on not?trusting the Memphis program ... 
who does? ?As for Ford, nice try, but seriously, isn?t he on the 
wrong?track here? ?I sure hope so.

As for Rondo also being ?shopped,? I'm afraid it?s true.? The 
Celt?s?brass has not been pleased with his performance and surly
?tude in the?playoffs as well as with his future lofy contract demands. ? 
Despite some of his impressive?post season stats,?other aspects of
his game were quite lacking. ?As Kim?alluded to,?Ray Allen?s lowly stats 
were not totally?his?fault. ?For when a team has a PG who the defense?
continuously lays?off of,?how can your otherwise productive 
wings (Allen, Pierce)?remain effective through any seven game 
series??

I?ll also re-submit here that the Thibodeau defense is totally 
overrated. ?It should have been named the Garnett defense.? 
No wonder non-people person, void-of-personality Thibodeau 
hasn?t gotten?a shot at head coach.? Because without Garnett, 
the FLAWS in?Thibodeau?s, Rondo?s, Big Baby?s. Allen?s, and 
Pierce?s defensive abilities?have been quite evident and 
fully exposed.

Egg

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 13 15:10:32 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Egg's ideas
Message-ID: <514528.28985.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Egg, it's nice to correspond with someone whose prejudices are also upfront.? I like particularly the line about Ainge's athlete pre-disposition.? Strangely, he was himself a good combo of a terrific athlete and a heady player; maybe he thinks the athlete part is the necessary tool, as in you can groom an athlete, but you can't teach height or speed, etc.? I don't know, but while we all love athletic magic out there, the combo is too rare.? I agree on Telfair, Banks, Giddens, Green and probably Greene.? But most other GMs make worse mistakes there; plus, you have to consider Al Jefferson as a super prospect gamble that paid off for us.? For the ones who did stick, such as Baby, Powe, perhaps Walker, they give us quite a good bench.? Then there's Rondo who was an off-the-charts athlete, who has become a pretty good player.? He's 23; if Boston is the place to curb his bad tendencies that you report, he will be quite an asset for 12 more years.? If
 he's traded, there's little hope for this slow team to make it back, unless a Rafer Alston type can make it happen, just mho.

Have you seen "Outliers" Malcolm Gladwell's book?? It's about success--in all creative fields.? Very interesting:? basic thesis is that it's unusual talent with thousands of repetitions that make for wild success--ex. of Mozart, Bill Gates, Joy, and athletes.? If repetition is the key, and it looks to be with Ray Allen & Davis (not to mention Larry), then I suspect Rondo's lone difficiency will get better & better.? It's not like he's not talented; he's just not polished (plus, his shooting is marketly better this year (isn't it?? I don't check stats much.)

Anyway, good stuff.? I'm comfortable with Ainge.? We're the champions for a few more days because of his good decisions; few GMs have done better over the last several years.? Of course, with your emphasis, it could be that the evil men do live after them, the good . . .? that's mine, you know.? Gene



      

From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Jun 14 00:04:31 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:04:31 EDT
Subject: One final weekend of decisions
Message-ID: <c29.5afa0f70.3765988f@aol.com>

 
One final weekend of decisions
 
By Andy Katz
ESPN.com


_Austin Daye_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36390) 
 isn't hearing what he wants: a first-round  guarantee. 
He is getting good reports about his skill and the likelihood that he'll be 
 selected in the first round of the June 25 draft -- Phoenix and Detroit 
are atop  his list of possible destinations at Nos. 14 and 15. But, so far 
neither has  given the Gonzaga sophomore an assurance that he will be selected 
in the first  round. 
On Thursday, Daye worked out for the Bobcats, who pick No. 12. But Daye is  
unlikely to get selected that high. He was heading to New Jersey for a 
workout  Friday and then New York before going back to his native Los Angeles on 
Sunday  before Monday's 5 p.m. ET deadline to withdraw. 
"I'm going to have to do a lot of thinking over the next few days, talk to 
a  lot of people and get information," Daye said by phone from the Charlotte 
 airport. "I've definitely got a big decision to make." 
He isn't the only one.  
Daye is one of many stragglers who are wrestling with the decision to stay 
in  the draft or go back to school in the final days before the deadline 
(more on  that in a minute). He is in a precarious position. He didn't show he 
was  physical enough in college -- yet -- but proved he's a fundamentally 
skilled  forward with enough length and height and ball skills to make him a 
tantalizing  prospect. 
No one in the NBA seems to think he would slide deep into the second round, 
 but there's always a chance he could fall out of the first if teams in the 
20s  are looking to dump salaries for next season and go foreign so they 
don't have  to take on a roster player for next season. 
Daye said that Bobcats coach Larry Brown, who coached Daye's father, 
Darren,  at UCLA, did suggest that he go back to school. But Daye is looking for 
reasons  to stay and recognizes that if a playoff team like Detroit or one 
that is close,  like Phoenix, drafts him, there won't be as much pressure on 
him to produce  right away.  
"It's going to be hard for me to make a solid choice if no team guarantees  
me," Daye said. "I know why they wouldn't, since something crazy could  
happen." 
Daye referenced UCLA's Russell Westbrook's going a surprising fourth last  
season.  
"That sent everyone scrambling around," Daye said. "Things change. I could 
go  in the top 10." 
Daye said he hasn't burned any bridges with Gonzaga, but there is a  
disconnect between the staff and Daye's father, according to multiple sources.  
"I know they're trying to get me back to help them," Daye said of Gonzaga.  
"It's a different position for me. It's about long term. It's not just 
about me  playing my junior year. It's about playing in the NBA, maybe getting 
to my  second contract younger. All of these things come into play. It's 
going to be  tough." 
The assumption in the NBA is that Daye will stay in the draft. But if he  
keeps getting it pounded into him that he's not a lock, it might sway him in 
the  end to return to Spokane. 
Who else has a big decision to make by Monday afternoon? 
_Jeff Teague_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36121) 
, So., Wake Forest: Teague is projected  to be a first-round pick and could 
definitely be in play for Atlanta at No. 19.  Teague can't get a read on a 
lock higher than that, but while Wake is hoping  Teague might return, the 
consensus within the league is that he will remain in  the draft pool. 
_Gani Lawal_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36507) 
, So., Georgia Tech: Lawal sounded like  someone who was unsure whether he 
would stay in the draft two weeks ago at the  NBA draft combine in Chicago. 
He said he would be completely fine going back to  the Yellow Jackets. 
Georgia Tech coach Paul Hewitt is laying low, leaving Lawal  alone to make a 
decision. He is projected as a bubble first-round pick. 
_Patty Mills_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=37525) 
, So., Saint Mary's: Mills was  reportedly staying in the draft. He went to 
the Reebok Eurocamp in Treviso,  Italy, last week and played well. But 
Saint Mary's assistant coach David  Patrick, who is Mills' confidant, said 
Thursday that Mills hasn't signed with an  agent and is considering returning to 
the Gaels. Saint Mary's coach Randy  Bennett confirmed this as well. Patrick 
said Mills wants to stay in the draft,  but not at the expense of being a 
second-round pick. The glut of point guards in  the draft could force Mills 
to reconsider and head back to Moraga.  
_Greivis Vasquez_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32018) , Jr., Maryland: A number of teams  contacted by ESPN.com said Vasquez 
is a strong second-round selection, but if he  returned he could be a solid 
first-round pick in 2010. Maryland coach Gary  Williams is adamant that 
Vasquez will be top-20 in 2010. Williams said Thursday  night that he's 
confident Vasquez will make an informed decision, sounding like  someone who doesn't 
think his top point guard is leaving. But it's a bit early  to project. 
Vasquez has one more workout (at Philadelphia on Saturday), but the  Sixers 
aren't going to pick Vasquez at No. 17. Philly could be working out  Vasquez in 
case it moves back.  
_Luke Harangody_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31678) , Jr., Notre Dame: Harangody has a  chance to be a _Tyler Hansbrough_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27018) -like icon at 
Notre Dame by becoming  the all-time leading scorer and rebounder. He's not a 
first-round pick. But he's  a near-lock for the second round. Notre Dame 
coach Mike Brey said Harangody is  50-50 and may be OK with staying in the 
draft as a second-round pick, as long as  he can receive guaranteed money. That 
doesn't bode well for the Irish.  
_Jodie Meeks_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31683) 
, Jr., Kentucky: Meeks won't get into  the first round, but he is a likely 
second-round selection. UK coach John  Calipari doesn't know for sure, but 
he was confident earlier in the week that  Meeks would return. If he does, 
that only enhances the prospects for a team  already expected to compete for 
the national title.  
_Jrue Holiday_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41014) , Fr., UCLA: Technically Holiday hasn't  signed with an agent. But no one 
-- I repeat, no one -- within the NBA or even  at UCLA believed that Holiday 
was going back to school. He is a lock for the  lottery. On Saturday, those 
expectations were confirmed, as coach Ben Howland  announced Holiday had 
decided to remain in the draft.  
_Taj Gibson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31775) 
, Jr., USC: Gibson hasn't announced that  he signed with an agent. But his 
age (24) and the current turmoil at USC after  Tim Floyd's resignation make 
it highly unlikely Gibson will return. Plus, he is  getting good vibes that 
he could be a late first-round pick. 
_Devan Downey_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26951) , Jr., South Carolina: Downey, the  team's leading scorer, had a workout 
in Milwaukee on Thursday, but on Saturday,  South Carolina coach Darrin Horn 
told ESPN.com that Downey had sent in the  paperwork to the NBA to announce 
he was withdrawing his name from the draft. 
_Osiris Eldridge_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32778) , Jr., Illinois State: Eldridge, the  Missouri Valley Conference player 
of the year, has withdrawn his name from the  draft and will be back for 
his senior year. He's talented, but not a first-round  pick. The 6-3 guard had 
worked out for several teams in Chicago and had a  workout with the 
Portland Trailblazers. 
_Donald Sloan_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31808) , _Bryan Davis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31804)  and _Chinemelu Elonu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=30778) , Jrs., Texas A&M: Sloan and  Davis have already told Texas A&M 
coach Mark Turgeon that they will return  to school. But Elonu has 
continued to work out this week, and there is a chance  he could sneak into the 
second round. That might be enough to tantalize him into  staying in the draft. 
He is the lone wolf in this group.  
Ater Majok, Fr., Connecticut: Majok worked  out in front of 21 teams, and 
there was no consensus that he would be drafted.  Financial considerations 
may be influencing him, but as one NBA assistant  general manager said, there 
won't be any money to make if he's not selected.  Majok needs to follow the 
three-year _Hasheem Thabeet_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31559)  Connecticut path. If he does that, then  he could be a 
player who enters the NBA with the potential to contribute, not  just someone who 
has potential. 
Andy Katz is a senior writer for  ESPN.com.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
JunestepsfooterNO62)

From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 00:13:48 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <472516.59766.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <472516.59766.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <168890.90779.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I have to paraphrase here because I can't locate the exact source.? I remember reading about a conversation Ainge had with Red back in the late eighties.? The team was on the road somewhere and a lot of guys were sitting around a hotel suite playing cards and stuff.? Bird, Parish, McHale et al.? Ainge was talking to Red and basically told him you should trade some of these guys before they lose value.? 

The following spring, Red traded Ainge to Sacramento for Ed Pinckney and Joe Kleine.

I don't doubt that?Ainge is shopping Ray Allen and?I think it's a smart move if he gets some complimentary players and top 10 pick.? The future of this team is Rondo,?Perk and maybe Baby.? Danny has to add the pieces now or we might go another 21 years without a flag.




________________________________
From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:55:52 PM
Subject: questions about Ray trade

l.? Floating Ray makes teams listen, but are the lottery folks going to pull the trigger for a 32 year old who didn't have but one great game in the playoffs (a losing effort at that) or will they build for future?
2.? Is Ainge building for the next run if he's truly seeking a 20 year old with "potential?"
3.? Does Ainge want to force Doc to play Tony?? Only I would come up with that, eh?
4.? Does Ainge think Bill Walker is ready for 25 plus minutes?? If not, who is?? A rookie?
5.? Isn't this just good preparation for the draft with ramifications of free-agent maneuvering to follow?? With the money saved, we could sign Rondo and Davis.
6.? Would such a deal allow us to throw in Scal (I wouldn't want to except for the money) or Giddens or whoever?? 
7.? Assuming Kevin can play in next year's playoffs, do we think we can win without Ray?? And if we are without KG or PP, are we going to lose anyway?? So we go for a rough diamond in the draft??
Oh, well.? I really like Ray and think he's good for a few more great years; plus, the better Rondo gets, the better Ray performs, but he's expensive.? Cheers, Gene



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 00:16:56 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
In-Reply-To: <398050.33530.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <822976.69384.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<398050.33530.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <633372.47231.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Trading Ray Allen to get a young sharpshooter like Curry is a no brainer. I would be estatic if Ainge pulled that off.




________________________________
From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:37:37 AM
Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans

It makes a lot of sense for most of these teams to move a pick for a veteran

Is it really James Harden or?Stefen?Curry or Demar Derozan?

I would prefer a proven commodity like Ben Gordon, but danny has done wel at talent evaluation


?



________________________________
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:29:15 PM
Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans


"Shopping" is too pejorative a term because it implies he wants to get rid of him.? I don't think that's the case.? Danny's just doing his due diligence and exploring Ray's value around the league.? 

Ty Evans is a lot like Rondo.? Freaky long arms, great penetrator and junk-shot maker within 10 feet of the hoop, and has questionable jump shot abilities from distance (and some funky form).? Rondo is more of a pure point guard, while Ty has legit 2-guard size.? Just like Rondo, he's a gambler on defense as well.? Evans also has great vision as a passer, but can over-dribble at times.? It's important to note that Memphis went on a huge run and started playing it's best ball of the season exactly when Evans took over as full-time point.

A Rondo/Evans backcourt doesn't seem like a good mix--both need the ball to be effective, both have problems shooting from distance, both like to gamble on defense.

I like Evans, but he doesn't seem to be a fit on this team.? 

Ryan

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Hot Celtics Rumor: Ray Allen For Tyreke Evans
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 7:53 PM
> Where there's smoke,...
> 
> I think a lot of Ford's ideas are very flawed, but I'm now
> more sure than
> ever that Danny is indeed shopping Ray.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Via Celtics Blog/Chad Ford
> >
> > http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftBuzz-090612
> >
> > "While the Celtics have shot down a rumor that they
> were talking to the
> > Suns about an Amare Stoudemire for Rajon Rondo swap
> ? we keep hearing their
> > name more and more in conjunction with a top-to-mid
> first-round draft pick
> > -- a sign that Danny Ainge must see someone he likes
> up high.
> >
> > While various sources have different players pegged,
> there seems to be some
> > consensus that one player in particular -- Memphis'
> Tyreke Evans -- is an
> > Ainge favorite.
> >
> > If the Celtics are going to get Evans, they'll have to
> get somewhere in the
> > top 10, most likely the top five.
> >
> > The Grizzlies, Thunder and Wizards all have picks in
> the top five and have
> > been open to swapping their picks. While it's doubtful
> that Rondo is their
> > bait, Ray Allen and his expiring contract could be.
> >
> > The Celtics could trade Allen to Memphis for a
> combination of Darko
> > Milicic, Greg Buckner and Marko Jaric. That could save
> the Grizzlies a
> > little money now and a lot of money next year ? but
> that seems like a
> > stretch. The Grizzlies don't need Allen and I'm sure
> he wouldn't be thrilled
> > to play there.
> >
> > The Thunder aren't great partners either. They don't
> really have any bad
> > contracts and while Allen would give them a nice
> veteran perimeter presence,
> > they're not giving up the No. 3 pick in the draft to
> get him.
> >
> > The Kings have also reached out to the Celtics and
> would be willing to deal
> > the No. 4 pick if they could get Rondo in return. The
> Celtics would likely
> > want more than just the No. 4 pick for Rondo -- and
> the Kings might be
> > willing to throw in either Jason Thompson or Spencer
> Hawes to make it
> > happen.
> >
> > That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing.
> Allen is a fit in
> > Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is
> looking for another piece
> > to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year
> of his contract,
> > which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap
> relief if they put
> > together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan
> Thomas, Mike James,
> > Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the
> Wizards and Celtics?
> >
> > If Boston can't find a workable deal in the top five,
> several other teams
> > including the Nets (11), Pistons (15), Bulls (16, 26),
> Wolves (18), Kings
> > (23) and Grizzlies (27) are open to moving their
> picks. While those wouldn't
> > be high enough to land Evans, it would get the Celtics
> a solid pick in the
> > first."
> >
> > Via Real GM:
> >
> > "Chad Ford is reporting a rumor that the Celtics are
> floating Ray Allen's
> > expiring contract for a Top 5 or Top 10 pick to get
> Tyreke Evans who
> > apparently Danny is in love with. He cited the Wizards
> as the most likely
> > partner for money and roster reasons (Arenas, Ray,
> Butler and Jamison would
> > be an offensive juggernaut). I don't buy it, and if it
> is true, I would
> > rather have it be James Harden than Tyreke. Harden is
> a surefire NBA starter
> > at the two, Evans is a high risk pick for whoever
> drafts him."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      

From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 00:22:35 2009
From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Egg's ideas
In-Reply-To: <514528.28985.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <514528.28985.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <278842.7423.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

<<Have you seen "Outliers" Malcolm Gladwell's book?? It's about success--in all creative fields.? Very interesting:? basic thesis is that it's unusual talent with thousands of repetitions that make for wild success--ex. of Mozart, Bill Gates, Joy, and athletes.? If repetition is the key, and it looks to be with Ray Allen & Davis (not to mention Larry), then I suspect Rondo's lone difficiency will get better & better.? It's not like he's not talented; he's just not polished (plus, his shooting is marketly better this year (isn't it?? I don't check stats much.)>>

?I think that Egg is definitely the outlier of negativity.? Thousands of repetitions on the same theme have proved wildly successful as harbinger of doom and gloom.




________________________________
From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:10:32 AM
Subject: re: Egg's ideas

Egg, it's nice to correspond with someone whose prejudices are also upfront.? I like particularly the line about Ainge's athlete pre-disposition.? Strangely, he was himself a good combo of a terrific athlete and a heady player; maybe he thinks the athlete part is the necessary tool, as in you can groom an athlete, but you can't teach height or speed, etc.? I don't know, but while we all love athletic magic out there, the combo is too rare.? I agree on Telfair, Banks, Giddens, Green and probably Greene.? But most other GMs make worse mistakes there; plus, you have to consider Al Jefferson as a super prospect gamble that paid off for us.? For the ones who did stick, such as Baby, Powe, perhaps Walker, they give us quite a good bench.? Then there's Rondo who was an off-the-charts athlete, who has become a pretty good player.? He's 23; if Boston is the place to curb his bad tendencies that you report, he will be quite an asset for 12 more years.? If
he's traded, there's little hope for this slow team to make it back, unless a Rafer Alston type can make it happen, just mho.

Have you seen "Outliers" Malcolm Gladwell's book?? It's about success--in all creative fields.? Very interesting:? basic thesis is that it's unusual talent with thousands of repetitions that make for wild success--ex. of Mozart, Bill Gates, Joy, and athletes.? If repetition is the key, and it looks to be with Ray Allen & Davis (not to mention Larry), then I suspect Rondo's lone difficiency will get better & better.? It's not like he's not talented; he's just not polished (plus, his shooting is marketly better this year (isn't it?? I don't check stats much.)

Anyway, good stuff.? I'm comfortable with Ainge.? We're the champions for a few more days because of his good decisions; few GMs have done better over the last several years.? Of course, with your emphasis, it could be that the evil men do live after them, the good . . .? that's mine, you know.? Gene



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Sun Jun 14 04:15:34 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Egg's ideas
In-Reply-To: <mailman.195.1244938967.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.195.1244938967.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <682135.42863.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

<<it could be that the evil men do live after them, the good . . .  that's mine, you know.>>


Found it:


"The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft' interred with their bones." - William Shakespeare


Thanks for the tip!


:)






________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re:  Egg's ideas
To: celtics <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <514528.28985.qm at web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Egg, it's nice to correspond with someone whose prejudices are also upfront.? I like particularly the line about Ainge's athlete pre-disposition.? Strangely, he was himself a good combo of a terrific athlete and a heady player; maybe he thinks the athlete part is the necessary tool, as in you can groom an athlete, but you can't teach height or speed, etc.? I don't know, but while we all love athletic magic out there, the combo is too rare.? I agree on Telfair, Banks, Giddens, Green and probably Greene.? But most other GMs make worse mistakes there; plus, you have to consider Al Jefferson as a super prospect gamble that paid off for us.? For the ones who did stick, such as Baby, Powe, perhaps Walker, they give us quite a good bench.? Then there's Rondo who was an off-the-charts athlete, who has become a pretty good player.? He's 23; if Boston is the place to curb his bad tendencies that you report, he will be quite an asset for 12 more years.? If
he's traded, there's little hope for this slow team to make it back, unless a Rafer Alston type can make it happen, just mho.

Have you seen "Outliers" Malcolm Gladwell's book?? It's about success--in all creative fields.? Very interesting:? basic thesis is that it's unusual talent with thousands of repetitions that make for wild success--ex. of Mozart, Bill Gates, Joy, and athletes.? If repetition is the key, and it looks to be with Ray Allen & Davis (not to mention Larry), then I suspect Rondo's lone difficiency will get better & better.? It's not like he's not talented; he's just not polished (plus, his shooting is marketly better this year (isn't it?? I don't check stats much.)

Anyway, good stuff.? I'm comfortable with Ainge.? We're the champions for a few more days because of his good decisions; few GMs have done better over the last several years.? Of course, with your emphasis, it could be that the evil men do live after them, the good . . .? that's mine, you know.? Gene



      

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From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sun Jun 14 04:39:31 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:39:31 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>

At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of 
>subject within the bounds of what can and can't be done 
>salary-wise.  A key concern is about the tipping point, I guess, as 
>Ainge tries to build for the future and keep the 3 together (or 
>whatever veterans who can win now).  Losing Ray and getting a 20 
>year old would be such a point, I think.  Other players in the deal 
>may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a 
>three--moreso than even Paul.

Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.

>You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis 
>of Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my 
>appraisal that he can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going 
>ballistic when Joe Johnson was traded.  Later, I was quite upset 
>with the prospect of losing Al Jefferson--while
>  intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by a 
> trade of Tony.

First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more 
harsh than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I 
really didn't mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just 
stating that you've always supported and defended him no matter what 
anyone else said. And I'll freely admit that most of his time here 
I've been someone who would not be heartbroken to see him gone, 
although I certainly don't hate him.

As to the space cadet, I've wondered from the start if he's been 
tested / treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same 
consistent pattern of even when he plays great he will always do 
something totally space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to 
Rick Fox getting diagnosed.

>Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know 
>who I would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, 
>though his buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings 
>little more than a streak shooter to me, though others may see him 
>as the next Ray Allen; I would take Douglas of FSU later and feel 
>better.  The point guards we don't need, and Thabeet might not 
>navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure floor abilities--still, 
>a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch time.  Oh, well. I 
>suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the other players 
>involved are capable of being great subs.

And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially 
since you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I 
don't always agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and 
appreciate your college player ones, where I'm the complete 
ignoramus. A lot of teams who are just not quite good enough to 
succeed are in that situation for just that reason - they're a team 
of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract probably is worth more 
near the trading deadline when the haves and have nots have been 
largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are thinking more in 
terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if that's 
what you're after more than the draft pick per se.

>  I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before 
> the draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after 
> the draft.  Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 
> and then trade him?  Gene

OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him 
because he is a FA - technically you always trade contracts and 
contractual obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any 
other way, but since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted 
to be sure. Confirmed the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we 
sign him http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams 
are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot 
trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract some 
way. Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not 
something we match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't 
trade him unless he signs that or any other contract offer we make, 
such as a larger sign and trade offer.

I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He 
has made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is 
and that's pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus 
on the good things and they certainly exist, but it is not that 
simple a decision, both because of Baby himself but also the economic 
situation and what that means to revenues affecting owner willingness 
to overspend.

Kim 


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 16:55:34 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:55:34 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>

Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I don't
think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
ring within the next year-two.

IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.

AG

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of subject
>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.  A key concern
>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the future
>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).  Losing Ray
>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.  Other players in
>> the deal may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a
>> three--moreso than even Paul.
>>
>
> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
>
> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
>> Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal that he
>> can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going ballistic when Joe Johnson
>> was traded.  Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
>> Jefferson--while
>>  intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
>> of Tony.
>>
>
> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more harsh
> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And I'll
> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not be
> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
>
> As to the space cadet, I've wondered from the start if he's been tested /
> treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
> diagnosed.
>
> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
>> would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, though his
>> buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings little more than a
>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.  The point guards we don't
>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
>> time.  Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
>>
>
> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially since
> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't always
> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are thinking
> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if that's
> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
>
>  I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
>> draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the draft.
>>  Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade him?
>>  Gene
>>
>
> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because he
> is a FA - technically you always trade contracts and contractual
> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure. Confirmed
> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams are free to make
> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
>
> So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract some way.
> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless he
> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
> trade offer.
>
> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and that's
> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good things
> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both because
> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
>
> Kim
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From douglas342 at aol.com  Sun Jun 14 17:48:47 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:48:47 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com><0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
	<3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CBBB2F80BE49F1-BBC-2042@webmail-dh42.sysops.aol.com>

If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title with a healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate shot without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty much shut down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who had to chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT shooter all year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the final year that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, those legs will have an awful lot of miles on them.

BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get nothing for it?


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade



Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I don't
think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
ring within the next year-two.

IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.

AG

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of subject
>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.  A key concern
>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the future
>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).  Losing Ray
>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.  Other players in
>> the deal may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a
>> three--moreso than even Paul.
>>
>
> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
>
> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
>> Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal that he
>> can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going ballistic when Joe Johnson
>> was traded.  Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
>> Jefferson--while
>>  intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
>> of Tony.
>>
>
> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more harsh
> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And I'll
> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not be
> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
>
> As to the space cadet, I've wondered 
from the start if he's been tested /
> treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
> diagnosed.
>
> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
>> would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, though his
>> buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings little more than a
>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.  The point guards we don't
>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
>> time.  Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
>>
>
> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially since
> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't always
> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are thinking
> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if that's
> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
>
>  I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
>> draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the draft.
>>  Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade him?
>>  Gene
>>
>
> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because he
> is a FA - technically you always trade 
contracts and contractual
> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure. Confirmed
> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams are free to make
> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
>
> So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract some way.
> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless he
> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
> trade offer.
>
> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and that's
> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good things
> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both because
> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
>
> Kim
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 18:45:38 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
Message-ID: <784846.94724.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Exactly, Douglas; that's the problem with trading Ray Allen all by himself.  While we view him as a 20 point, 50% FG, 40% 3PT, 90% FT player, the other teams look at his as simply an expiring contract.  As such, we'll NEVER receive equal talent compensation for him--it'll always be a draft pick and overpriced, lesser talented veterans--things that can't replace Ray next season, or in the next 3 seasons...

Thus, if we want to trade Ray, we have to commit to one of two things: either trading Rondo with him, which will bring back MORE NBA-ready talent, but which will also open up another hole on the team; or committing to SPENDING MORE MONEY this summer, because if we just trade Ray by himself, then there will have to be another move ON TOP of the Ray trade, some kind of free agent signing or another trade that brings in comparable talent to Ray at the 2-guard spot.  Ray isn't IMPOSSIBLE to replace, so we could probably find somebody capable to replace him with, but we'll have to pay for it. 

That said, it seems too risky for my liking.  Basically, if we trade Ray, we're looking at making 1 or 2 moves after that to just get back to where we were before the trade, since almost any Ray trade will be made for a draft pick which won't make the team any better next year.  So, while a Ray trade would strengthen us in 2011 or 2012, we'd still need to make moves this summer to fortify us in 2010.  We'd be counting on making at least 2 good trades just to simply re-attain the level we were at the last 2 seasons.  OR, we could just stand pat and add one good free agent, and be BETTER than we were last season.  The latter seems more likely and easier to attain.

Additionally, I think it's safe to say that ANY Ray or Rondo trade will necessitate MORE free agent activity, which will in turn increase our pay roll to heights not yet seen.  So, to those who think we have a cheap ownership group, if we trade Ray or Rondo or both, it means the ownership group is really ready to pay the big bucks for a winner; I'd say upwards of 80 million dollars at least (our pay roll has been between 75-77 million these last 2 seasons).  Not only that, we'd be committing ourselves to older players as well, since older players would be the easiest ones to plug in (for a price).  So, in exchange for Ray (and to attain the goal of getting younger in the future), we might be looking at older replacements in the meantime, AND an increase in salary for the next 2 seasons.  Is trading Ray worth that?  I don't think so.  Just make a good free agent signing (Ariza or Odom for the full MLE would be great), and go from there.  It's the simplest
 and cheapest way to go forward.

Ryan
--- On Sun, 6/14/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
> If we assume (as we must) that we
> have a legitimate shot at a title with a healthy PGA, then
> the next question is whether we have a legitimate shot
> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was
> pretty much shut down during the Orlando series (at no small
> cost to the guys who had to chase him all over the place),
> he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT shooter all year, and you
> don't replace that.? I also think that this is the final
> year that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of
> 2009-10, those legs will have an awful lot of miles on
> them.
> 
> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and
> we get nothing for it?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> 
> 
> 
> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the
> championship and
> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful
> process. I don't
> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed
> to get another
> ring within the next year-two.
> 
> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but
> veteran
> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major
> piece of the
> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will
> happen.
> 
> AG
> 
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the good answers Kim.? You always
> put this kind of subject
> >> within the bounds of what can and can't be done
> salary-wise.? A key concern
> >> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge
> tries to build for the future
> >> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who
> can win now).? Losing Ray
> >> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I
> think.? Other players in
> >> the deal may or not mitigate that.? As you
> pointed out, Walker is a
> >> three--moreso than even Paul.
> >>
> >
> > Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
> >
> > You've given the most comprehensive (and probably
> accurate) analysis of
> >> Tony's dilemma.? It does dove-tail (in my
> defense) with my appraisal that he
> >> can play but is a space-cadet.? I remember
> going ballistic when Joe Johnson
> >> was traded.? Later, I was quite upset with
> the prospect of losing Al
> >> Jefferson--while
> >>? intellectually understanding it.? But I
> wouldn't be bothered by a trade
> >> of Tony.
> >>
> >
> > First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I
> probably sounded more harsh
> > than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest
> fans. I really didn't
> > mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just
> stating that you've
> > always supported and defended him no matter what
> anyone else said. And I'll
> > freely admit that most of his time here I've been
> someone who would not be
> > heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly
> don't hate him.
> >
> > As to the space cadet, I've wondered 
> from the start if he's been tested /
> > treated for ADD.? I keep coming back to how some
> of the same consistent
> > pattern of even when he plays great he will always do
> something totally
> > space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick
> Fox getting
> > diagnosed.
> >
> > Back to this particular trade for a lottery
> position--I don't know who I
> >> would want out of the top ten.? Harden
> doesn't impress me, though his
> >> buildup indicates others really like him.?
> Curry brings little more than a
> >> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as
> the next Ray Allen; I
> >> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel
> better.? The point guards we don't
> >> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA
> without more bulk and pure
> >> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have
> great impact come crunch
> >> time.? Oh, well. I suspect this will be a
> trade we don't make unless the
> >> other players involved are capable of being great
> subs.
> >>
> >
> > And I don't think it's worth making merely for great
> subs, especially since
> > you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the
> draft - I don't always
> > agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect
> and appreciate your
> > college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus.
> A lot of teams who
> > are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that
> situation for just
> > that reason - they're a team of great subs. While
> Ray's expiring contract
> > probably is worth more near the trading deadline when
> the haves and have
> > nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs,
> and people are thinking
> > more in terms of whether or not they need to look at
> rebuilding, if that's
> > what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
> >
> >? I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis
> will want before the
> >> draft.? Am I right to assume we could trade
> him before or after the draft.
> >>? Would we have to match a qualifying offer
> after July 1 and then trade him?
> >>? Gene
> >>
> >
> > OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot
> trade him because he
> > is a FA - technically you always trade 
> contracts and contractual
> > obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense
> any other way, but
> > since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted
> to be sure. Confirmed
> > the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign
> him
> > http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85?
> ...Teams are free to make
> > trades again once their season has ended, but cannot
> trade players whose
> > contracts are ending or could end due to an option or
> ETO.
> >
> > So to trade him we have to have him back under? a
> new contract some way.
> > Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights,
> not something we
> > match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so
> can't trade him unless he
> > signs that or any other contract offer we make, such
> as a larger sign and
> > trade offer.
> >
> > I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know
> it himself. He has
> > made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market
> for him is and that's
> > pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to
> focus on the good things
> > and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a
> decision, both because
> > of Baby himself but also the economic situation and
> what that means to
> > revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
> >
> > Kim
> >? _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From martind42 at cox.net  Sun Jun 14 21:16:41 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:16:41 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <784846.94724.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090614171641.HY4OR.149335.imail@eastrmwml49>

I have to agree with you that either Ariza or Odom and personally, I've advocated before in trying to get Odom.  He's a very poor man's Magic Johnson.  Not in the same league in greatness, but a 5 tool player like Magic. Sad to admit coming from a green blooded Lakers' hater, but Magic was probably the most versatile player I have ever seen (played center and won the title in his rookie year).  Well, Lamar can fill time at 4 spots on a regular basis.  I think he's a very under rated player, because he's over shadowed by Kobe (obviously) and Gasol. He's exactly what this team could use- a long wing player with good handles, good play making ability and a pretty decent offensive player.  He can rebound as well as any 2, 3 and most 4's, so he'd get mega minutes with the Celts. 
Lamar is my summer wish. 

---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Exactly, Douglas; that's the problem with trading Ray Allen all by himself.  While we view him as a 20 point, 50% FG, 40% 3PT, 90% FT player, the other teams look at his as simply an expiring contract.  As such, we'll NEVER receive equal talent compensation for him--it'll always be a draft pick and overpriced, lesser talented veterans--things that can't replace Ray next season, or in the next 3 seasons...
> 
> Thus, if we want to trade Ray, we have to commit to one of two things: either trading Rondo with him, which will bring back MORE NBA-ready talent, but which will also open up another hole on the team; or committing to SPENDING MORE MONEY this summer, because if we just trade Ray by himself, then there will have to be another move ON TOP of the Ray trade, some kind of free agent signing or another trade that brings in comparable talent to Ray at the 2-guard spot.  Ray isn't IMPOSSIBLE to replace, so we could probably find somebody capable to replace him with, but we'll have to pay for it. 
> 
> That said, it seems too risky for my liking.  Basically, if we trade Ray, we're looking at making 1 or 2 moves after that to just get back to where we were before the trade, since almost any Ray trade will be made for a draft pick which won't make the team any better next year.  So, while a Ray trade would strengthen us in 2011 or 2012, we'd still need to make moves this summer to fortify us in 2010.  We'd be counting on making at least 2 good trades just to simply re-attain the level we were at the last 2 seasons.  OR, we could just stand pat and add one good free agent, and be BETTER than we were last season.  The latter seems more likely and easier to attain.
> 
> Additionally, I think it's safe to say that ANY Ray or Rondo trade will necessitate MORE free agent activity, which will in turn increase our pay roll to heights not yet seen.  So, to those who think we have a cheap ownership group, if we trade Ray or Rondo or both, it means the ownership group is really ready to pay the big bucks for a winner; I'd say upwards of 80 million dollars at least (our pay roll has been between 75-77 million these last 2 seasons).  Not only that, we'd be committing ourselves to older players as well, since older players would be the easiest ones to plug in (for a price).  So, in exchange for Ray (and to attain the goal of getting younger in the future), we might be looking at older replacements in the meantime, AND an increase in salary for the next 2 seasons.  Is trading Ray worth that?  I don't think so.  Just make a good free agent signing (Ariza or Odom for the full MLE would be great), and go from there.  It's the simplest
>  and cheapest way to go forward.
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Sun, 6/14/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
> > If we assume (as we must) that we
> > have a legitimate shot at a title with a healthy PGA, then
> > the next question is whether we have a legitimate shot
> > without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was
> > pretty much shut down during the Orlando series (at no small
> > cost to the guys who had to chase him all over the place),
> > he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT shooter all year, and you
> > don't replace that.? I also think that this is the final
> > year that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of
> > 2009-10, those legs will have an awful lot of miles on
> > them.
> > 
> > BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and
> > we get nothing for it?
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the
> > championship and
> > definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful
> > process. I don't
> > think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed
> > to get another
> > ring within the next year-two.
> > 
> > IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but
> > veteran
> > enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major
> > piece of the
> > trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will
> > happen.
> > 
> > AG
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks for the good answers Kim.? You always
> > put this kind of subject
> > >> within the bounds of what can and can't be done
> > salary-wise.? A key concern
> > >> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge
> > tries to build for the future
> > >> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who
> > can win now).? Losing Ray
> > >> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I
> > think.? Other players in
> > >> the deal may or not mitigate that.? As you
> > pointed out, Walker is a
> > >> three--moreso than even Paul.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
> > >
> > > You've given the most comprehensive (and probably
> > accurate) analysis of
> > >> Tony's dilemma.? It does dove-tail (in my
> > defense) with my appraisal that he
> > >> can play but is a space-cadet.? I remember
> > going ballistic when Joe Johnson
> > >> was traded.? Later, I was quite upset with
> > the prospect of losing Al
> > >> Jefferson--while
> > >>? intellectually understanding it.? But I
> > wouldn't be bothered by a trade
> > >> of Tony.
> > >>
> > >
> > > First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I
> > probably sounded more harsh
> > > than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest
> > fans. I really didn't
> > > mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just
> > stating that you've
> > > always supported and defended him no matter what
> > anyone else said. And I'll
> > > freely admit that most of his time here I've been
> > someone who would not be
> > > heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly
> > don't hate him.
> > >
> > > As to the space cadet, I've wondered 
> > from the start if he's been tested /
> > > treated for ADD.? I keep coming back to how some
> > of the same consistent
> > > pattern of even when he plays great he will always do
> > something totally
> > > space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick
> > Fox getting
> > > diagnosed.
> > >
> > > Back to this particular trade for a lottery
> > position--I don't know who I
> > >> would want out of the top ten.? Harden
> > doesn't impress me, though his
> > >> buildup indicates others really like him.?
> > Curry brings little more than a
> > >> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as
> > the next Ray Allen; I
> > >> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel
> > better.? The point guards we don't
> > >> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA
> > without more bulk and pure
> > >> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have
> > great impact come crunch
> > >> time.? Oh, well. I suspect this will be a
> > trade we don't make unless the
> > >> other players involved are capable of being great
> > subs.
> > >>
> > >
> > > And I don't think it's worth making merely for great
> > subs, especially since
> > > you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the
> > draft - I don't always
> > > agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect
> > and appreciate your
> > > college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus.
> > A lot of teams who
> > > are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that
> > situation for just
> > > that reason - they're a team of great subs. While
> > Ray's expiring contract
> > > probably is worth more near the trading deadline when
> > the haves and have
> > > nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs,
> > and people are thinking
> > > more in terms of whether or not they need to look at
> > rebuilding, if that's
> > > what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
> > >
> > >? I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis
> > will want before the
> > >> draft.? Am I right to assume we could trade
> > him before or after the draft.
> > >>? Would we have to match a qualifying offer
> > after July 1 and then trade him?
> > >>? Gene
> > >>
> > >
> > > OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot
> > trade him because he
> > > is a FA - technically you always trade 
> > contracts and contractual
> > > obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense
> > any other way, but
> > > since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted
> > to be sure. Confirmed
> > > the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign
> > him
> > > http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85?
> > ...Teams are free to make
> > > trades again once their season has ended, but cannot
> > trade players whose
> > > contracts are ending or could end due to an option or
> > ETO.
> > >
> > > So to trade him we have to have him back under? a
> > new contract some way.
> > > Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights,
> > not something we
> > > match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so
> > can't trade him unless he
> > > signs that or any other contract offer we make, such
> > as a larger sign and
> > > trade offer.
> > >
> > > I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know
> > it himself. He has
> > > made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market
> > for him is and that's
> > > pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to
> > focus on the good things
> > > and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a
> > decision, both because
> > > of Baby himself but also the economic situation and
> > what that means to
> > > revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
> > >
> > > Kim
> > >? _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 23:39:36 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:39:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: odom/ariza
In-Reply-To: <mailman.198.1245014213.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.198.1245014213.2413.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <877767.29751.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

would love to have odom, but i don't see the lakers letting him go. ariza is a possibility, but he's a little bit of fool's gold, i think. i liken his game to posey's, which is a great complimentary player, but not someone who can get his own shot, which NO painfully discovered about posey this year.if he's not playing with someone who can get him shots, his offensive game suffers. defensively, he's great. if the lakers pick ariza over odom, i think that would be a huge mistake. 


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:16:41 -0400
From: <martind42 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <20090614171641.HY4OR.149335.imail at eastrmwml49>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I
have to agree with you that either Ariza or Odom and personally, I've
advocated before in trying to get Odom.  He's a very poor man's Magic
Johnson.  Not in the same league in greatness, but a 5 tool player like
Magic. Sad to admit coming from a green blooded Lakers' hater, but
Magic was probably the most versatile player I have ever seen (played
center and won the title in his rookie year).  Well, Lamar can fill
time at 4 spots on a regular basis.  I think he's a very under rated
player, because he's over shadowed by Kobe (obviously) and Gasol. He's
exactly what this team could use- a long wing player with good handles,
good play making ability and a pretty decent offensive player.  He can
rebound as well as any 2, 3 and most 4's, so he'd get mega minutes with
the Celts. 
Lamar is my summer wish. 
****************************************************



      

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 00:45:57 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:45:57 -0400
Subject: anyone hear this rumor? CP3
Message-ID: <84e131670906141745g306dde3bt1ae478f51c1f3183@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds too good to be true to me, but someone posted on my forums that they
heard on ESPN radio that the Celtics offered Rondo and Ray for Chris Paul

no way I'm running that rumor on the radio unless someone else confirms for
me that they heard it on the radio and that it was a "rumor" with a "source"
rather than radio talk show speculation

cheers

-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jun 15 01:41:21 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:41:21 -0400
Subject: odom/ariza
In-Reply-To: <877767.29751.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090614214121.462UP.321838.imail@eastrmwml39>

I agree.  I doubt the Lakers would let Odom leave, especially to Boston.
---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> would love to have odom, but i don't see the lakers letting him go. ariza is a possibility, but he's a little bit of fool's gold, i think. i liken his game to posey's, which is a great complimentary player, but not someone who can get his own shot, which NO painfully discovered about posey this year.if he's not playing with someone who can get him shots, his offensive game suffers. defensively, he's great. if the lakers pick ariza over odom, i think that would be a huge mistake. 
> 
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:16:41 -0400
> From: <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Message-ID: <20090614171641.HY4OR.149335.imail at eastrmwml49>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I
> have to agree with you that either Ariza or Odom and personally, I've
> advocated before in trying to get Odom.  He's a very poor man's Magic
> Johnson.  Not in the same league in greatness, but a 5 tool player like
> Magic. Sad to admit coming from a green blooded Lakers' hater, but
> Magic was probably the most versatile player I have ever seen (played
> center and won the title in his rookie year).  Well, Lamar can fill
> time at 4 spots on a regular basis.  I think he's a very under rated
> player, because he's over shadowed by Kobe (obviously) and Gasol. He's
> exactly what this team could use- a long wing player with good handles,
> good play making ability and a pretty decent offensive player.  He can
> rebound as well as any 2, 3 and most 4's, so he'd get mega minutes with
> the Celts. 
> Lamar is my summer wish. 
> ****************************************************
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jun 15 01:45:30 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:45:30 -0400
Subject: anyone hear this rumor? CP3
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906141745g306dde3bt1ae478f51c1f3183@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090614214530.5L8UU.321904.imail@eastrmwml39>

There would have to be more coming back for salary purposes, but why would NO do that?  CP3 in green?  No way. Of course, I said that about Garnett.
---- jeffclark at gmail.com wrote: 
> Sounds too good to be true to me, but someone posted on my forums that they
> heard on ESPN radio that the Celtics offered Rondo and Ray for Chris Paul
> 
> no way I'm running that rumor on the radio unless someone else confirms for
> me that they heard it on the radio and that it was a "rumor" with a "source"
> rather than radio talk show speculation
> 
> cheers
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Mon Jun 15 01:59:21 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:59:21 -0400
Subject: anyone hear this rumor? CP3
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906141745g306dde3bt1ae478f51c1f3183@mail.gmail.co m>
References: <84e131670906141745g306dde3bt1ae478f51c1f3183@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KL900EAYC8MCSKO@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

At 08:45 PM 6/14/2009, jeffclark at gmail.com wrote:
>Sounds too good to be true to me, but someone posted on my forums that they
>heard on ESPN radio that the Celtics offered Rondo and Ray for Chris Paul
>
>no way I'm running that rumor on the radio unless someone else confirms for
>me that they heard it on the radio and that it was a "rumor" with a "source"
>rather than radio talk show speculation


Did they say who "they" is who said it? a host or a caller or a host 
quoting a caller or quoting another host quoting a...
To start with, the salaries don't even begin to match, even if you 
wait until you're using next season's salaries it's still 22MM vs 13MM
Sigh. I hate this time of year....

Kim


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jun 15 04:30:03 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:30:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Clevleand After Shaq or Camby
Message-ID: <244677.16040.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cleveland will go all out to try and keep Lebron, going after Shaq

Miami pursuing Bosh

Pistons after Ben Gordon

Turkoglu likley to opt out & test the FA waters.



FA signings?

Antonio MyDyess or Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom/Trevor Ariza?
Josh Childress?
Jannero Pargo?
Stefan Marbury?



Rondo/ Ray/Baby & Tony for CP3 & Chandler & #3 (Stephen Curry or Jeff Teague)


- 

Rondo
Ray
Baby
Tony

+

CP3
Chandler
Curry
Ariza/McDyess
Pargo

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jun 15 10:40:18 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:40:18 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
	<3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200906151040.n5FAeKP8024139@ares.afrc.af.mil>

First this is NOT a call to trade Paul Pierce. Let me get that out straight right now.  However, at this point the trading chip with more value and that would yield a higher return is Pierce - Allen's expiring contract or not. 

As to the trade Allen plan - given the current structure of players we have the Cs almost have to keep Allen for the clutch shot making alone. How many games did he win last year in the final seconds - six? Seven? Add in 95% at the charity stripe and he probably salted away another four to five games as well from the line.  Getting a rookie is folly - lottery or no.  Such a move immediately takes them from in the Finals mix to where they were this year - 1st/2nd round exit. And as others have said I sincerely doubt you get equal value in return for a "star" vet - in fact I guarantee you don't. The economy is bad, but it ain't that bad and Chris Wallace doesn't have anything we want (since he's the only one dumb enough to make such a lopsided deal).



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:56 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade

Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I don't
think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
ring within the next year-two.

IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.

AG

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of subject
>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.  A key concern
>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the future
>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).  Losing Ray
>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.  Other players in
>> the deal may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a
>> three--moreso than even Paul.
>>
>
> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
>
> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
>> Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal that he
>> can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going ballistic when Joe Johnson
>> was traded.  Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
>> Jefferson--while
>>  intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
>> of Tony.
>>
>
> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more harsh
> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And I'll
> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not be
> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
>
> As to the space cadet, I've wondered from the start if he's been tested /
> treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
> diagnosed.
>
> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
>> would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, though his
>> buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings little more than a
>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.  The point guards we don't
>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
>> time.  Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
>>
>
> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially since
> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't always
> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are thinking
> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if that's
> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
>
>  I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
>> draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the draft.
>>  Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade him?
>>  Gene
>>
>
> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because he
> is a FA - technically you always trade contracts and contractual
> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure. Confirmed
> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams are free to make
> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
>
> So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract some way.
> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless he
> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
> trade offer.
>
> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and that's
> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good things
> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both because
> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
>
> Kim
>  _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 11:14:50 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:14:50 +0200
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <200906151040.n5FAeKP8024139@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
	<3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
	<200906151040.n5FAeKP8024139@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <56a297000906150414t72287b57lfc2c6ba7fe975001@mail.gmail.com>

The real issue is KG's health. His knee issue is uncharted territory
in sports medicine. From what I hear his "bone spur" surgery was to
reattach a knee tendon in the back of his knee with a screw. We really
don't know how effective he'll be when he gets back.

I'll take Ainge's shopping of Ray for bigs as an indication that he
doesn't have much faith in KG's full recovery.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40 PM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> First this is NOT a call to trade Paul Pierce. Let me get that out straight right now. ?However, at this point the trading chip with more value and that would yield a higher return is Pierce - Allen's expiring contract or not.
>
> As to the trade Allen plan - given the current structure of players we have the Cs almost have to keep Allen for the clutch shot making alone. How many games did he win last year in the final seconds - six? Seven? Add in 95% at the charity stripe and he probably salted away another four to five games as well from the line. ?Getting a rookie is folly - lottery or no. ?Such a move immediately takes them from in the Finals mix to where they were this year - 1st/2nd round exit. And as others have said I sincerely doubt you get equal value in return for a "star" vet - in fact I guarantee you don't. The economy is bad, but it ain't that bad and Chris Wallace doesn't have anything we want (since he's the only one dumb enough to make such a lopsided deal).
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:56 PM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I don't
> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
> ring within the next year-two.
>
> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.
>
> AG
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim. ?You always put this kind of subject
>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise. ?A key concern
>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the future
>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now). ?Losing Ray
>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think. ?Other players in
>>> the deal may or not mitigate that. ?As you pointed out, Walker is a
>>> three--moreso than even Paul.
>>>
>>
>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
>>
>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
>>> Tony's dilemma. ?It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal that he
>>> can play but is a space-cadet. ?I remember going ballistic when Joe Johnson
>>> was traded. ?Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
>>> Jefferson--while
>>> ?intellectually understanding it. ?But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
>>> of Tony.
>>>
>>
>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more harsh
>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And I'll
>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not be
>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
>>
>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered from the start if he's been tested /
>> treated for ADD. ?I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
>> diagnosed.
>>
>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
>>> would want out of the top ten. ?Harden doesn't impress me, though his
>>> buildup indicates others really like him. ?Curry brings little more than a
>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better. ?The point guards we don't
>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
>>> time. ?Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
>>>
>>
>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially since
>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't always
>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are thinking
>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if that's
>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
>>
>> ?I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
>>> draft. ?Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the draft.
>>> ?Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade him?
>>> ?Gene
>>>
>>
>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because he
>> is a FA - technically you always trade contracts and contractual
>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure. Confirmed
>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85 ?...Teams are free to make
>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
>>
>> So to trade him we have to have him back under ?a new contract some way.
>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless he
>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
>> trade offer.
>>
>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and that's
>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good things
>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both because
>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
>>
>> Kim
>> ?_______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 13:43:39 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:43:39 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <8CBBB2F80BE49F1-BBC-2042@webmail-dh42.sysops.aol.com>
References: <670854.34432.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0KL700LLIOYI9RI0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net>
	<3f0c87180906140955u457c8e67j27043340b45f2223@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CBBB2F80BE49F1-BBC-2042@webmail-dh42.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180906150643q7b219373kcec35cd121ec7ed6@mail.gmail.com>

>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get nothing
for it?

If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - that would
be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and enough
money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling on a high
pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us
significantly back in chasing another ring.

Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if trading.
And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game playing on 1
leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to the very
same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any value??
Why just Ray alone??

Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of a player
does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is a bit
different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far - does not
make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope Danny has a
bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...

AG

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title with a
> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate shot
> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty much shut
> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who had to
> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT shooter all
> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the final year
> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, those legs
> will have an awful lot of miles on them.
>
> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get nothing
> for it?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
>
>
> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I
> don't
> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
> ring within the next year-two.
>
> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.
>
> AG
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of subject
> >> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.  A key
> concern
> >> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the
> future
> >> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).  Losing
> Ray
> >> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.  Other players
> in
> >> the deal may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a
> >> three--moreso than even Paul.
> >>
> >
> > Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
> >
> > You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
> >> Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal
> that he
> >> can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going ballistic when Joe
> Johnson
> >> was traded.  Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
> >> Jefferson--while
> >>  intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
> >> of Tony.
> >>
> >
> > First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more
> harsh
> > than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
> > mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
> > always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And
> I'll
> > freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not
> be
> > heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
> >
> > As to the space cadet, I've wondered
> from the start if he's been tested /
> > treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
> > pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
> > space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
> > diagnosed.
> >
> > Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
> >> would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, though his
> >> buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings little more than
> a
> >> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
> >> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.  The point guards we
> don't
> >> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
> >> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
> >> time.  Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
> >> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
> >>
> >
> > And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially
> since
> > you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't
> always
> > agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
> > college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
> > are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
> > that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
> > probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
> > nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are
> thinking
> > more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if
> that's
> > what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
> >
> >  I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
> >> draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the
> draft.
> >>  Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade
> him?
> >>  Gene
> >>
> >
> > OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because
> he
> > is a FA - technically you always trade
> contracts and contractual
> > obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
> > since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.
> Confirmed
> > the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
> > http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams are free to
> make
> > trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
> > contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
> >
> > So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract some way.
> > Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
> > match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless
> he
> > signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
> > trade offer.
> >
> > I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
> > made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and
> that's
> > pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good
> things
> > and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both
> because
> > of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
> > revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
> >
> > Kim
> >  _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 15 14:01:09 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:01:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
Message-ID: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Great points all around.? I would hope that after ten years in the $10 million dollar range that all of the big three would accept reduced money to extend their championship possibilities.? Why go anywhere else for a few more million and no peace of mind?? Ok, I know, I know--money still talks.? But I like our chances with the Alex scenario, that we might keep them in their dotage when they can still play but see the need to scale back the dollars for the team.? I would.? Think of being able to keep all three for, say, $28 mil.
?
Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a major piece.? Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and didn't give up much for them.? If Walker produces, we will have a future nucleus alongside the old men to keep it going.? Bring in one big man with mle if we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt and we're much better off.? Gene

--- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM


>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get nothing
for it?

If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - that would
be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and enough
money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling on a high
pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us
significantly back in chasing another ring.

Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if trading.
And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game playing on 1
leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to the very
same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any value??
Why just Ray alone??

Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of a player
does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is a bit
different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far - does not
make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope Danny has a
bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...

AG

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title with a
> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate shot
> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty much shut
> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who had to
> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT shooter all
> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the final year
> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, those legs
> will have an awful lot of miles on them.
>
> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get nothing
> for it?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
>
>
> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship and
> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful process. I
> don't
> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get another
> ring within the next year-two.
>
> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece of the
> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.
>
> AG
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the good answers Kim.? You always put this kind of subject
> >> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.? A key
> concern
> >> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for the
> future
> >> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).? Losing
> Ray
> >> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.? Other players
> in
> >> the deal may or not mitigate that.? As you pointed out, Walker is a
> >> three--moreso than even Paul.
> >>
> >
> > Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
> >
> > You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) analysis of
> >> Tony's dilemma.? It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my appraisal
> that he
> >> can play but is a space-cadet.? I remember going ballistic when Joe
> Johnson
> >> was traded.? Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing Al
> >> Jefferson--while
> >>? intellectually understanding it.? But I wouldn't be bothered by a trade
> >> of Tony.
> >>
> >
> > First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more
> harsh
> > than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really didn't
> > mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that you've
> > always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. And
> I'll
> > freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who would not
> be
> > heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
> >
> > As to the space cadet, I've wondered
> from the start if he's been tested /
> > treated for ADD.? I keep coming back to how some of the same consistent
> > pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something totally
> > space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
> > diagnosed.
> >
> > Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know who I
> >> would want out of the top ten.? Harden doesn't impress me, though his
> >> buildup indicates others really like him.? Curry brings little more than
> a
> >> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray Allen; I
> >> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.? The point guards we
> don't
> >> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk and pure
> >> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come crunch
> >> time.? Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make unless the
> >> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
> >>
> >
> > And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, especially
> since
> > you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I don't
> always
> > agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and appreciate your
> > college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of teams who
> > are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation for just
> > that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring contract
> > probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves and have
> > nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are
> thinking
> > more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if
> that's
> > what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
> >
> >? I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want before the
> >> draft.? Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the
> draft.
> >>? Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then trade
> him?
> >>? Gene
> >>
> >
> > OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him because
> he
> > is a FA - technically you always trade
> contracts and contractual
> > obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other way, but
> > since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.
> Confirmed
> > the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
> > http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85? ...Teams are free to
> make
> > trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose
> > contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
> >
> > So to trade him we have to have him back under? a new contract some way.
> > Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not something we
> > match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him unless
> he
> > signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger sign and
> > trade offer.
> >
> > I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. He has
> > made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and
> that's
> > pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good
> things
> > and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both
> because
> > of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that means to
> > revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
> >
> > Kim
> >? _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 15 14:02:54 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Speaking of PG need
Message-ID: <902693.83702.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Portland is talking of finding a better option than Steve Blake.? I've been a great admirer of his abilities since he led Maryland to a champtioship.? He's got great court vision and passing ability, shoots decently, and is a hard worker; for our second team, I think he would be perfect.? Gene


      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jun 15 15:13:36 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:13:36 -0700
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net>

We will see how much money they need, as we will with odom & ariza. I  
have heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is easier for  
long term vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be their  
James posey, looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting forward  
like posey, turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can always  
play the 2 spot. What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young

Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might make sense based on  
kgs condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign marbury we might  
have to. Standing pat won't get us # 18.



On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>  
wrote:

> Great points all around.  I would hope that after ten years in the  
> $10 million dollar range that all of the big three would accept  
> reduced money to extend their championship possibilities.  Why go  
> anywhere else for a few more million and no peace of mind?  Ok, I  
> know, I know--money still talks.  But I like our chances with the  
> Alex scenario, that we might keep them in their dotage when they can  
> still play but see the need to scale back the dollars for the team.   
> I would.  Think of being able to keep all three for, say, $28 mil.
>
> Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a major  
> piece.  Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and  
> didn't give up much for them.  If Walker produces, we will have a  
> future nucleus alongside the old men to keep it going.  Bring in one  
> big man with mle if we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt  
> and we're much better off.  Gene
>
> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM
>
>
>>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get  
>>> nothing
> for it?
>
> If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - that  
> would
> be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and  
> enough
> money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling on  
> a high
> pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us
> significantly back in chasing another ring.
>
> Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if  
> trading.
> And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game  
> playing on 1
> leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to the  
> very
> same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any  
> value??
> Why just Ray alone??
>
> Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of  
> a player
> does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is a  
> bit
> different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far -  
> does not
> make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope Danny  
> has a
> bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...
>
> AG
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title  
>> with a
>> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate  
>> shot
>> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty  
>> much shut
>> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who  
>> had to
>> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT  
>> shooter all
>> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the  
>> final year
>> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10,  
>> those legs
>> will have an awful lot of miles on them.
>>
>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get  
>> nothing
>> for it?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am
>> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>>
>>
>>
>> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship  
>> and
>> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful  
>> process. I
>> don't
>> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get  
>> another
>> ring within the next year-two.
>>
>> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran
>> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece  
>> of the
>> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.
>>
>> AG
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim.  You always put this kind of  
>>>> subject
>>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise.  A key
>> concern
>>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for  
>>>> the
>> future
>>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).   
>>>> Losing
>> Ray
>>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think.  Other  
>>>> players
>> in
>>>> the deal may or not mitigate that.  As you pointed out, Walker is a
>>>> three--moreso than even Paul.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.
>>>
>>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate)  
>>> analysis of
>>>> Tony's dilemma.  It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my  
>>>> appraisal
>> that he
>>>> can play but is a space-cadet.  I remember going ballistic when Joe
>> Johnson
>>>> was traded.  Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing  
>>>> Al
>>>> Jefferson--while
>>>>   intellectually understanding it.  But I wouldn't be bothered by  
>>>> a trade
>>>> of Tony.
>>>>
>>>
>>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more
>> harsh
>>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really  
>>> didn't
>>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that  
>>> you've
>>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said.  
>>> And
>> I'll
>>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who  
>>> would not
>> be
>>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.
>>>
>>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered
>> from the start if he's been tested /
>>> treated for ADD.  I keep coming back to how some of the same  
>>> consistent
>>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something  
>>> totally
>>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting
>>> diagnosed.
>>>
>>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know  
>>> who I
>>>> would want out of the top ten.  Harden doesn't impress me, though  
>>>> his
>>>> buildup indicates others really like him.  Curry brings little  
>>>> more than
>> a
>>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray  
>>>> Allen; I
>>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better.  The point  
>>>> guards we
>> don't
>>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk  
>>>> and pure
>>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come  
>>>> crunch
>>>> time.  Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make  
>>>> unless the
>>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs,  
>>> especially
>> since
>>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I  
>>> don't
>> always
>>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and  
>>> appreciate your
>>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of  
>>> teams who
>>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation  
>>> for just
>>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring  
>>> contract
>>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves  
>>> and have
>>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are
>> thinking
>>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if
>> that's
>>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.
>>>
>>>   I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want  
>>> before the
>>>> draft.  Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the
>> draft.
>>>>   Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then  
>>>> trade
>> him?
>>>>   Gene
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him  
>>> because
>> he
>>> is a FA - technically you always trade
>> contracts and contractual
>>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other  
>>> way, but
>>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.
>> Confirmed
>>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him
>>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85  ...Teams are free  
>>> to
>> make
>>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players  
>>> whose
>>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
>>>
>>> So to trade him we have to have him back under  a new contract  
>>> some way.
>>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not  
>>> something we
>>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him  
>>> unless
>> he
>>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger  
>>> sign and
>>> trade offer.
>>>
>>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself.  
>>> He has
>>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and
>> that's
>>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good
>> things
>>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both
>> because
>>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that  
>>> means to
>>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.
>>>
>>> Kim
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>>> celtics at igtc.com
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Mon Jun 15 16:55:56 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:55:56 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net>
References: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <8CBBBF1489814DF-1094-78E@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>

I hate to say this, but the only time I remember someone taking a cut was Magic Johnson, who gave up a whole mil of his 15 or so mil one time.? Would Ray re-up for short money?? Maybe.? But would KG and PP take a cut?? No way.


-----Original Message-----
From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade


We will see how much money they need, as we will with odom & ariza. I have heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is easier for long term vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be their James posey, looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting forward like posey, turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can always play the 2 spot. What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young?
?
Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might make sense based on kgs condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign marbury we might have to. Standing pat won't get us # 18.?
?
?
On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:?
?
> Great points all around. I would hope that after ten years in the > $10 million dollar range that all of the big three would accept > reduced money to extend their championship possibilities. Why go > anywhere else for a few more million and no peace of mind? Ok, I > know, I know--money still talks. But I like our chances with the > Alex scenario, that we might keep them in their dotage when they can > still play but see the need to scale back the dollars for the team. > I would. Think of being able to keep all three for, say, $28 mil.?
>?
> Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a major > piece. Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and > didn't give up much for them. If Walker produces, we will have a > future nucleus alongside the old men to keep it going. Bring in one > big man with mle if we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt > and we're much better off. Gene?
>?
> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:?
>?
>?
> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>?
> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM?
>?
>?
>>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get >>> nothing?
> for it??
>?
> If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - that > would?
> be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and > enough?
> money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling on > a high?
> pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us?
> significantly back in chasing another ring.?
>?
> Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if > trading.?
> And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game > playing on 1?
> leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to the > very?
> same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any > value???
> Why just Ray alone???
>?
> Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of > a player?
> does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is a > bit?
> different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far - > does not?
> make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope Danny > has a?
> bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...?
>?
> AG?
>?
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:?
>?
>> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title >> with a?
>> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate >> shot?
>> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty >> much shut?
>> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who >> had to?
>> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT >> shooter all?
>> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the >> final year?
>> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, >> those legs?
>> will have an awful lot of miles on them.?
>>?
>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get >> nothing?
>> for it??
>>?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>?
>> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am?
>> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship >> and?
>> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful >> process. I?
>> don't?
>> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get >> another?
>> ring within the next year-two.?
>>?
>> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran?
>> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece >> of the?
>> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.?
>>?
>> AG?
>>?
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> >> wrote:?
>>?
>>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:?
>>>?
>>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim. You always put this kind of >>>> subject?
>>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise. A key?
>> concern?
>>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for >>>> the?
>> future?
>>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now). >>>> Losing?
>> Ray?
>>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think. Other >>>> players?
>> in?
>>>> the deal may or not mitigate that. As you pointed out, Walker is a?
>>>> three--moreso than even Paul.?
>>>>?
>>>?
>>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.?
>>>?
>>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) >>> analysis of?
>>>> Tony's dilemma. It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my >>>> appraisal?
>> that he?
>>>> can play but is a space-cadet. I remember going ballistic when Joe?
>> Johnson?
>>>> was traded. Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing >>>> Al?
>>>> Jefferson--while?
>>>> intellectually understanding it. But I wouldn't be bothered by >>>> a trade?
>>>> of Tony.?
>>>>?
>>>?
>>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more?
>> harsh?
>>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really >>> didn't?
>>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that >>> you've?
>>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. >>> And?
>> I'll?
>>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who >>> would not?
>> be?
>>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.?
>>>?
>>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered?
>> from the start if he's been tested /?
>>> treated for ADD. I keep coming back to how some of the same >>> consistent?
>>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something >>> totally?
>>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting?
>>> diagnosed.?
>>>?
>>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know >>> who I?
>>>> would want out of the top ten. Harden doesn't impress me, though >>>> his?
>>>> buildup indicates others really like him. Curry brings little >>>> more than?
>> a?
>>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray >>>> Allen; I?
>>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better. The point >>>> guards we?
>> don't?
>>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk >>>> and pure?
>>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come >>>> crunch?
>>>> time. Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make >>>> unless the?
>>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.?
>>>>?
>>>?
>>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, >>> especially?
>> since?
>>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I >>> don't?
>> always?
>>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and >>> appreciate your?
>>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of >>> teams who?
>>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation >>> for just?
>>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring >>> contract?
>>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves >>> and have?
>>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are?
>> thinking?
>>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if?
>> that's?
>>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.?
>>>?
>>> I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want >>> before the?
>>>> draft. Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the?
>> draft.?
>>>> Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then >>>> trade?
>> him??
>>>> Gene?
>>>>?
>>>?
>>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him >>> because?
>> he?
>>> is a FA - technically you always trade?
>> contracts and contractual?
>>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other >>> way, but?
>>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.?
>> Confirmed?
>>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him?
>>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85 ...Teams are free >>> to?
>> make?
>>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players >>> whose?
>>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.?
>>>?
>>> So to trade him we have to have him back under a new contract >>> some way.?
>>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not >>> something we?
>>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him >>> unless?
>> he?
>>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger >>> sign and?
>>> trade offer.?
>>>?
>>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. >>> He has?
>>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and?
>> that's?
>>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good?
>> things?
>>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both?
>> because?
>>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that >>> means to?
>>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.?
>>>?
>>> Kim?
>>> _______________________________________________?
>>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>>> celtics at igtc.com?
>>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jun 15 16:57:59 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:57:59 -0700
Subject: Speaking of PG need
In-Reply-To: <902693.83702.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <902693.83702.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7591E3AD-F518-411B-81D1-5E3200035770@verizon.net>

Blake would be great if we can't resign matbury, or move rondo

-
Allen,rondo,Allen, powe

+

Stoudamire, barbosa,ty lawson or jeff teague

Ariza or baby for posey?

Blake or marbury



On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:02 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>  
wrote:

> Portland is talking of finding a better option than Steve Blake.   
> I've been a great admirer of his abilities since he led Maryland to  
> a champtioship.  He's got great court vision and passing ability,  
> shoots decently, and is a hard worker; for our second team, I think  
> he would be perfect.  Gene
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jeffclark at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 17:02:04 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:02:04 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <8CBBBF1489814DF-1094-78E@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
References: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net>
	<8CBBBF1489814DF-1094-78E@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670906151002u9e32d94w37af3196d350719a@mail.gmail.com>

not to put too fine a point on it, but KG already took a pay cut once in his
career (still one of the largest deals in the league), but he took less
annual money in his extension with us and if memory serves, he did the same
when he was still in Minn.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> I hate to say this, but the only time I remember someone taking a cut was
> Magic Johnson, who gave up a whole mil of his 15 or so mil one time.? Would
> Ray re-up for short money?? Maybe.? But would KG and PP take a cut?? No way.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
>
> We will see how much money they need, as we will with odom & ariza. I have
> heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is easier for long term
> vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be their James posey,
> looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting forward like posey,
> turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can always play the 2 spot.
> What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young?
> ?
> Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might make sense based on kgs
> condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign marbury we might have to.
> Standing pat won't get us # 18.?
> ?
> ?
> On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:?
> ?
> > Great points all around. I would hope that after ten years in the > $10
> million dollar range that all of the big three would accept > reduced money
> to extend their championship possibilities. Why go > anywhere else for a few
> more million and no peace of mind? Ok, I > know, I know--money still talks.
> But I like our chances with the > Alex scenario, that we might keep them in
> their dotage when they can > still play but see the need to scale back the
> dollars for the team. > I would. Think of being able to keep all three for,
> say, $28 mil.?
> >?
> > Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a major >
> piece. Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and > didn't give
> up much for them. If Walker produces, we will have a > future nucleus
> alongside the old men to keep it going. Bring in one > big man with mle if
> we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt > and we're much better off.
> Gene?
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:?
> >?
> >?
> > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>?
> > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM?
> >?
> >?
> >>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get >>>
> nothing?
> > for it??
> >?
> > If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - that >
> would?
> > be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and >
> enough?
> > money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling on > a
> high?
> > pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us?
> > significantly back in chasing another ring.?
> >?
> > Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if >
> trading.?
> > And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game > playing
> on 1?
> > leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to the >
> very?
> > same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any >
> value???
> > Why just Ray alone???
> >?
> > Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of > a
> player?
> > does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is a >
> bit?
> > different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far - >
> does not?
> > make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope Danny >
> has a?
> > bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...?
> >?
> > AG?
> >?
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:?
> >?
> >> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a title >>
> with a?
> >> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a legitimate >>
> shot?
> >> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty >> much
> shut?
> >> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who >> had
> to?
> >> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT >>
> shooter all?
> >> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the >>
> final year?
> >> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, >> those
> legs?
> >> will have an awful lot of miles on them.?
> >>?
> >> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get >>
> nothing?
> >> for it??
> >>?
> >>?
> >> -----Original Message-----?
> >> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>?
> >> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am?
> >> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> >>?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the championship >>
> and?
> >> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful >> process.
> I?
> >> don't?
> >> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get >>
> another?
> >> ring within the next year-two.?
> >>?
> >> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran?
> >> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece >> of
> the?
> >> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.?
> >>?
> >> AG?
> >>?
> >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> >>
> wrote:?
> >>?
> >>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:?
> >>>?
> >>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim. You always put this kind of >>>>
> subject?
> >>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise. A key?
> >> concern?
> >>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for >>>>
> the?
> >> future?
> >>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now). >>>>
> Losing?
> >> Ray?
> >>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think. Other >>>>
> players?
> >> in?
> >>>> the deal may or not mitigate that. As you pointed out, Walker is a?
> >>>> three--moreso than even Paul.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.?
> >>>?
> >>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) >>>
> analysis of?
> >>>> Tony's dilemma. It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my >>>>
> appraisal?
> >> that he?
> >>>> can play but is a space-cadet. I remember going ballistic when Joe?
> >> Johnson?
> >>>> was traded. Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing >>>>
> Al?
> >>>> Jefferson--while?
> >>>> intellectually understanding it. But I wouldn't be bothered by >>>> a
> trade?
> >>>> of Tony.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded more?
> >> harsh?
> >>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I really >>>
> didn't?
> >>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that >>>
> you've?
> >>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else said. >>>
> And?
> >> I'll?
> >>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who >>> would
> not?
> >> be?
> >>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.?
> >>>?
> >>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered?
> >> from the start if he's been tested /?
> >>> treated for ADD. I keep coming back to how some of the same >>>
> consistent?
> >>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something >>>
> totally?
> >>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox getting?
> >>> diagnosed.?
> >>>?
> >>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't know >>>
> who I?
> >>>> would want out of the top ten. Harden doesn't impress me, though >>>>
> his?
> >>>> buildup indicates others really like him. Curry brings little >>>>
> more than?
> >> a?
> >>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray >>>>
> Allen; I?
> >>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better. The point >>>> guards
> we?
> >> don't?
> >>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk >>>>
> and pure?
> >>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact come >>>>
> crunch?
> >>>> time. Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make >>>>
> unless the?
> >>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, >>>
> especially?
> >> since?
> >>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I >>>
> don't?
> >> always?
> >>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and >>> appreciate
> your?
> >>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of >>>
> teams who?
> >>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation >>> for
> just?
> >>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring >>>
> contract?
> >>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves >>> and
> have?
> >>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people are?
> >> thinking?
> >>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, if?
> >> that's?
> >>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.?
> >>>?
> >>> I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want >>> before
> the?
> >>>> draft. Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after the?
> >> draft.?
> >>>> Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then >>>>
> trade?
> >> him??
> >>>> Gene?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him >>>
> because?
> >> he?
> >>> is a FA - technically you always trade?
> >> contracts and contractual?
> >>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other >>>
> way, but?
> >>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.?
> >> Confirmed?
> >>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him?
> >>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85 ...Teams are free >>>
> to?
> >> make?
> >>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players >>>
> whose?
> >>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.?
> >>>?
> >>> So to trade him we have to have him back under a new contract >>> some
> way.?
> >>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not >>>
> something we?
> >>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade him >>>
> unless?
> >> he?
> >>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger >>>
> sign and?
> >>> trade offer.?
> >>>?
> >>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it himself. >>>
> He has?
> >>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is and?
> >> that's?
> >>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the good?
> >> things?
> >>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, both?
> >> because?
> >>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that >>> means
> to?
> >>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.?
> >>>?
> >>> Kim?
> >>> _______________________________________________?
> >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >>> celtics at igtc.com?
> >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >> celtics at igtc.com?
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >> celtics at igtc.com?
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> > celtics at igtc.com?
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> > celtics at igtc.com?
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> ?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From douglas342 at aol.com  Mon Jun 15 17:15:40 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:15:40 -0400
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <84e131670906151002u9e32d94w37af3196d350719a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com><BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net><8CBBBF1489814DF-1094-78E@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
	<84e131670906151002u9e32d94w37af3196d350719a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CBBBF40AC295BF-1094-8B6@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>

Well, we probably are splitting hairs here.  I was trying to say that 
folks in the NBA tend not to give up money contractually due to them.  
Sure, they can sign a contract for less than we might expect, but once 
they ink a deal for $10 mil, they're not going to give up any of it.  
In fact, I don't think they could, as the amount counting towards the 
cap would be $10 mil, even if the player only took $9 mil.  I think.


-----Original Message-----
From: jeffclark at gmail.com
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02 am
Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade



not to put too fine a point on it, but KG already took a pay cut once 
in his
career (still one of the largest deals in the league), but he took less
annual money in his extension with us and if memory serves, he did the 
same
when he was still in Minn.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> I hate to say this, but the only time I remember someone taking a cut 
was
> Magic Johnson, who gave up a whole mil of his 15 or so mil one time.? 
Would
> Ray re-up for short money?? Maybe.? But would KG and PP take a cut?? 
No way.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
>
> We will see how much money they need, as we will with odom & ariza. I 
have
> heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is easier for long 
term
> vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be their James posey,
> looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting forward like posey,
> turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can always play the 2 
spot.
> What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young?
> ?
> Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might make sense based on 
kgs
> condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign marbury we might have 
to.
> Standing pat won't get us # 18.?
> ?
> ?
> On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> 
wrote:?
> ?
> > Great points all around. I would hope that after ten years in the > 
$10
> million dollar range that all of the big three would accept > reduced 
money
> to extend their championship possibilities. Why go > anywhere else 
for a few
> more million and no peace of mind? Ok, I > know, I know--money still 
talks.
> But I like our chances with the > Alex scenario, that we might keep 
them in
> their dotage when they can > still play but see the need to scale 
back the
> dollars for the team. > I would. Think of being able to keep all 
three for,
> say, $28 mil.?
> >?
> > Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a major >
> piece. Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and > 
didn't give
> up much for them. If Walker produces, we will have a > future nucleus
> alongside the old men to keep it going. Bring in one > big man with 
mle if
> we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt > and we're much 
better off.
> Gene?
> >?
> > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> 
wrote:?
> >?
> >?
> > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>?
> > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM?
> >?
> >?
> >>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get 
>>>
> nothing?
> > for it??
> >?
> > If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years - 
that >
> would?
> > be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and 
>
> enough?
> > money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling 
on > a
> high?
> > pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us?
> > significantly back in chasing another ring.?
> >?
> > Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him - if >
> trading.?
> > And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game > 
playing
> on 1?
> > leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to 
the >
> very?
> > same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose any >
> value???
> > Why just Ray alone???
> >?
> > Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid of 
> a
> player?
> > does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is 
a >
> bit?
> > different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far - 
>
> does not?
> > make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope 
Danny >
> has a?
> > bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as always...?
> >?
> > AG?
> >?
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:?
> >?
> >> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a 
title >>
> with a?
> >> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a 
legitimate >>
> shot?
> >> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty >> 
much
> shut?
> >> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who 
>> had
> to?
> >> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT >>
> shooter all?
> >> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the >>
> final year?
> >> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, >> 
those
> legs?
> >> will have an awful lot of miles on them.?
> >>?
> >> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get 
>>
> nothing?
> >> for it??
> >>?
> >>?
> >> -----Original Message-----?
> >> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>?
> >> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am?
> >> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> >>?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the 
championship >>
> and?
> >> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful >> 
process.
> I?
> >> don't?
> >> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get 
>>
> another?
> >> ring within the next year-two.?
> >>?
> >> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran?
> >> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece 
>> of
> the?
> >> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.?
> >>?
> >> AG?
> >>?
> >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> >>
> wrote:?
> >>?
> >>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:?
> >>>?
> >>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim. You always put this kind of >>>>
> subject?
> >>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise. A 
key?
> >> concern?
> >>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for 
>>>>
> the?
> >> future?
> >>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now). 
>>>>
> Losing?
> >> Ray?
> >>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think. Other 
>>>>
> players?
> >> in?
> >>>> the deal may or not mitigate that. As you pointed out, Walker is 
a?
> >>>> three--moreso than even Paul.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.?
> >>>?
> >>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) >>>
> analysis of?
> >>>> Tony's dilemma. It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my >>>>
> appraisal?
> >> that he?
> >>>> can play but is a space-cadet. I remember going ballistic when 
Joe?
> >> Johnson?
> >>>> was traded. Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing 
>>>>
> Al?
> >>>> Jefferson--while?
> >>>> intellectually understanding it. But I wouldn't be bothered by 
>>>> a
> trade?
> >>>> of Tony.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded 
more?
> >> harsh?
> >>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I 
really >>>
> didn't?
> >>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that 
>>>
> you've?
> >>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else 
said. >>>
> And?
> >> I'll?
> >>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who >>> 
would
> not?
> >> be?
> >>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate him.?
> >>>?
> >>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered?
> >> from the start if he's been tested /?
> >>> treated for ADD. I keep coming back to how some of the same >>>
> consistent?
> >>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something 
>>>
> totally?
> >>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox 
getting?
> >>> diagnosed.?
> >>>?
> >>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't 
know >>>
> who I?
> >>>> would want out of the top ten. Harden doesn't impress me, though 
>>>>
> his?
> >>>> buildup indicates others really like him. Curry brings little 
>>>>
> more than?
> >> a?
> >>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray 
>>>>
> Allen; I?
> >>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better. The point >>>> 
guards
> we?
> >> don't?
> >>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk 
>>>>
> and pure?
> >>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact 
come >>>>
> crunch?
> >>>> time. Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make >>>>
> unless the?
> >>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, >>>
> especially?
> >> since?
> >>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I 
>>>
> don't?
> >> always?
> >>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and >>> 
appreciate
> your?
> >>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of 
>>>
> teams who?
> >>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation 
>>> for
> just?
> >>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring 
>>>
> contract?
> >>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves 
>>> and
> have?
> >>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people 
are?
> >> thinking?
> >>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding, 
if?
> >> that's?
> >>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.?
> >>>?
> >>> I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want >>> 
before
> the?
> >>>> draft. Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after 
the?
> >> draft.?
> >>>> Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then 
>>>>
> trade?
> >> him??
> >>>> Gene?
> >>>>?
> >>>?
> >>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him 
>>>
> because?
> >> he?
> >>> is a FA - technically you always trade?
> >> contracts and contractual?
> >>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other 
>>>
> way, but?
> >>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.?
> >> Confirmed?
> >>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him?
> >>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85 ...Teams are free 
>>>
> to?
> >> make?
> >>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade 
players >>>
> whose?
> >>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.?
> >>>?
> >>> So to trade him we have to have him back under a new contract >>> 
some
> way.?
> >>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not >>>
> something we?
> >>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade 
him >>>
> unless?
> >> he?
> >>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger 
>>>
> sign and?
> >>> trade offer.?
> >>>?
> >>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it 
himself. >>>
> He has?
> >>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is 
and?
> >> that's?
> >>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the 
good?
> >> things?
> >>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision, 
both?
> >> because?
> >>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that >>> 
means
> to?
> >>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.?
> >>>?
> >>> Kim?
> >>> _______________________________________________?
> >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >>> celtics at igtc.com?
> >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >> celtics at igtc.com?
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> >> celtics at igtc.com?
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >>?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> > celtics at igtc.com?
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> > celtics at igtc.com?
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
> ?
> _______________________________________________?
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
> celtics at igtc.com?
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



--
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jun 15 17:45:31 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:45:31 -0700
Subject: questions about Ray trade
In-Reply-To: <8CBBBF40AC295BF-1094-8B6@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
References: <301514.69730.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com><BB5DCCD8-6238-46C9-B0D4-872A4751B85A@verizon.net><8CBBBF1489814DF-1094-78E@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
	<84e131670906151002u9e32d94w37af3196d350719a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CBBBF40AC295BF-1094-8B6@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <99E6678B-09C7-4443-AE3E-3B8CA3BCBC8B@verizon.net>

I think this is correct with the NBA . NFL allows more flexibility in  
restructuring, but more upfront

Existing contracts are pretty much set.
This can happen only on signing or resigning

Even then, you always here the talk, but they always seem to follow  
the $

Even if ray took the mle I am not sure if that would help us much  
capwise



On Jun 15, 2009, at 10:15 AM, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:

> Well, we probably are splitting hairs here.  I was trying to say  
> that folks in the NBA tend not to give up money contractually due to  
> them.  Sure, they can sign a contract for less than we might expect,  
> but once they ink a deal for $10 mil, they're not going to give up  
> any of it.  In fact, I don't think they could, as the amount  
> counting towards the cap would be $10 mil, even if the player only  
> took $9 mil.  I think.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeffclark at gmail.com
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>
>
>
> not to put too fine a point on it, but KG already took a pay cut  
> once in his
> career (still one of the largest deals in the league), but he took  
> less
> annual money in his extension with us and if memory serves, he did  
> the same
> when he was still in Minn.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I hate to say this, but the only time I remember someone taking a cut
> was
>> Magic Johnson, who gave up a whole mil of his 15 or so mil one time.?
> Would
>> Ray re-up for short money?? Maybe.? But would KG and PP take a cut??
> No way.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
>> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am
>> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
>>
>>
>> We will see how much money they need, as we will with odom & ariza. I
> have
>> heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is easier for long
> term
>> vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be their James posey,
>> looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting forward like posey,
>> turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can always play the 2
> spot.
>> What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young?
>> ?
>> Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might make sense based on
> kgs
>> condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign marbury we might have
> to.
>> Standing pat won't get us # 18.?
>> ?
>> ?
>> On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> wrote:?
>> ?
>> > Great points all around. I would hope that after ten years in the >
> $10
>> million dollar range that all of the big three would accept > reduced
> money
>> to extend their championship possibilities. Why go > anywhere else
> for a few
>> more million and no peace of mind? Ok, I > know, I know--money still
> talks.
>> But I like our chances with the > Alex scenario, that we might keep
> them in
>> their dotage when they can > still play but see the need to scale
> back the
>> dollars for the team. > I would. Think of being able to keep all
> three for,
>> say, $28 mil.?
>> >?
>> > Agree also on the folly of trading into the high draft for a  
>> major >
>> piece. Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis approach and >
> didn't give
>> up much for them. If Walker produces, we will have a > future nucleus
>> alongside the old men to keep it going. Bring in one > big man with
> mle if
>> we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt > and we're much
> better off.
>> Gene?
>> >?
>> > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> wrote:?
>> >?
>> >?
>> > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
>> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
>> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>?
>> > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM?
>> >?
>> >?
>> >>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get
>>>>
>> nothing?
>> > for it??
>> >?
>> > If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the next 3 years -
> that >
>> would?
>> > be ideal situation for the team. It will mean that we have him, and
>> enough?
>> > money to sign max salary vet player long term instead of gambling
> on > a
>> high?
>> > pick in the draft that will not solve anything, but will push us?
>> > significantly back in chasing another ring.?
>> >?
>> > Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top talent for him -  
>> if >
>> trading.?
>> > And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on his poor game >
> playing
>> on 1?
>> > leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can blame KG or Paul to
> the >
>> very?
>> > same degree. Why don't we just trade them all before they lose  
>> any >
>> value???
>> > Why just Ray alone???
>> >?
>> > Gotta love this logic... or complete lack thereof... Getting rid  
>> of a
>> player?
>> > does not take much brain: finding a right move that makes sense is
> a >
>> bit?
>> > different ball game... And right now, everything I've seen so far -
>> does not?
>> > make any sense at all. Just takes us out of contention. I hope
> Danny >
>> has a?
>> > bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this one - as  
>> always...?
>> >?
>> > AG?
>> >?
>> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:?
>> >?
>> >> If we assume (as we must) that we have a legitimate shot at a
> title >>
>> with a?
>> >> healthy PGA, then the next question is whether we have a
> legitimate >>
>> shot?
>> >> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even though he was pretty >>
> much
>> shut?
>> >> down during the Orlando series (at no small cost to the guys who
>>> had
>> to?
>> >> chase him all over the place), he was still 20 ppg and a 95% FT >>
>> shooter all?
>> >> year, and you don't replace that.? I also think that this is the  
>> >>
>> final year?
>> >> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By the end of 2009-10, >>
> those
>> legs?
>> >> will have an awful lot of miles on them.?
>> >>?
>> >> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his contract expire and we get
>>>
>> nothing?
>> >> for it??
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >> -----Original Message-----?
>> >> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
>> >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>?
>> >> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am?
>> >> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving up on the
> championship >>
>> and?
>> >> definite direction towards rebuilding and long term painful >>
> process.
>> I?
>> >> don't?
>> >> think this is anywhere in line with the ownership committed to get
>>>
>> another?
>> >> ring within the next year-two.?
>> >>?
>> >> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier younger (but veteran?
>> >> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing him as the major piece
>>> of
>> the?
>> >> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) - nothing will happen.?
>> >>?
>> >> AG?
>> >>?
>> >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>  
>> >>
>> wrote:?
>> >>?
>> >>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com wrote:?
>> >>>?
>> >>>> Thanks for the good answers Kim. You always put this kind of  
>> >>>>
>> subject?
>> >>>> within the bounds of what can and can't be done salary-wise. A
> key?
>> >> concern?
>> >>>> is about the tipping point, I guess, as Ainge tries to build for
>>>>>
>> the?
>> >> future?
>> >>>> and keep the 3 together (or whatever veterans who can win now).
>>>>>
>> Losing?
>> >> Ray?
>> >>>> and getting a 20 year old would be such a point, I think. Other
>>>>>
>> players?
>> >> in?
>> >>>> the deal may or not mitigate that. As you pointed out, Walker is
> a?
>> >>>> three--moreso than even Paul.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>?
>> >>> Yup, tipping point is a good way to refer to it.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> You've given the most comprehensive (and probably accurate) >>>
>> analysis of?
>> >>>> Tony's dilemma. It does dove-tail (in my defense) with my >>>>
>> appraisal?
>> >> that he?
>> >>>> can play but is a space-cadet. I remember going ballistic when
> Joe?
>> >> Johnson?
>> >>>> was traded. Later, I was quite upset with the prospect of losing
>>>>>
>> Al?
>> >>>> Jefferson--while?
>> >>>> intellectually understanding it. But I wouldn't be bothered by
>>>>> a
>> trade?
>> >>>> of Tony.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>?
>> >>> First, sorry, I realized after the fact that I probably sounded
> more?
>> >> harsh?
>> >>> than I meant in saying you're one of Tony's biggest fans. I
> really >>>
>> didn't?
>> >>> mean that as a put down if it sounded that way, just stating that
>>>>
>> you've?
>> >>> always supported and defended him no matter what anyone else
> said. >>>
>> And?
>> >> I'll?
>> >>> freely admit that most of his time here I've been someone who >>>
> would
>> not?
>> >> be?
>> >>> heartbroken to see him gone, although I certainly don't hate  
>> him.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> As to the space cadet, I've wondered?
>> >> from the start if he's been tested /?
>> >>> treated for ADD. I keep coming back to how some of the same >>>
>> consistent?
>> >>> pattern of even when he plays great he will always do something
>>>>
>> totally?
>> >>> space cadet a couple times a game is what lead to Rick Fox
> getting?
>> >>> diagnosed.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> Back to this particular trade for a lottery position--I don't
> know >>>
>> who I?
>> >>>> would want out of the top ten. Harden doesn't impress me, though
>>>>>
>> his?
>> >>>> buildup indicates others really like him. Curry brings little
>>>>>
>> more than?
>> >> a?
>> >>>> streak shooter to me, though others may see him as the next Ray
>>>>>
>> Allen; I?
>> >>>> would take Douglas of FSU later and feel better. The point >>>>
> guards
>> we?
>> >> don't?
>> >>>> need, and Thabeet might not navigate the NBA without more bulk
>>>>>
>> and pure?
>> >>>> floor abilities--still, a shot-blocker can have great impact
> come >>>>
>> crunch?
>> >>>> time. Oh, well. I suspect this will be a trade we don't make  
>> >>>>
>> unless the?
>> >>>> other players involved are capable of being great subs.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>?
>> >>> And I don't think it's worth making merely for great subs, >>>
>> especially?
>> >> since?
>> >>> you don't think there's anyone really worth it in the draft - I
>>>>
>> don't?
>> >> always?
>> >>> agree with you on pro player evaluations but respect and >>>
> appreciate
>> your?
>> >>> college player ones, where I'm the complete ignoramus. A lot of
>>>>
>> teams who?
>> >>> are just not quite good enough to succeed are in that situation
>>>> for
>> just?
>> >>> that reason - they're a team of great subs. While Ray's expiring
>>>>
>> contract?
>> >>> probably is worth more near the trading deadline when the haves
>>>> and
>> have?
>> >>> nots have been largely sorted out for the playoffs, and people
> are?
>> >> thinking?
>> >>> more in terms of whether or not they need to look at rebuilding,
> if?
>> >> that's?
>> >>> what you're after more than the draft pick per se.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> I wonder if Ainge will have a line on what Davis will want >>>
> before
>> the?
>> >>>> draft. Am I right to assume we could trade him before or after
> the?
>> >> draft.?
>> >>>> Would we have to match a qualifying offer after July 1 and then
>>>>>
>> trade?
>> >> him??
>> >>>> Gene?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>?
>> >>> OK, I thought I knew the answer to this was we cannot trade him
>>>>
>> because?
>> >> he?
>> >>> is a FA - technically you always trade?
>> >> contracts and contractual?
>> >>> obligations, not players - and it wouldn't make sense any other
>>>>
>> way, but?
>> >>> since technically FA are not FA until July 1, wanted to be sure.?
>> >> Confirmed?
>> >>> the answer is no, we cannot trade him unless we sign him?
>> >>> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q85 ...Teams are free
>>>>
>> to?
>> >> make?
>> >>> trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade
> players >>>
>> whose?
>> >>> contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> So to trade him we have to have him back under a new contract >>>
> some
>> way.?
>> >>> Qualifying offer is what we make to retain his rights, not >>>
>> something we?
>> >>> match. But it's still an offer, not a contract, so can't trade
> him >>>
>> unless?
>> >> he?
>> >>> signs that or any other contract offer we make, such as a larger
>>>>
>> sign and?
>> >>> trade offer.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> I don't think Danny will know because Davis won't know it
> himself. >>>
>> He has?
>> >>> made it pretty clear he wants to see what the market for him is
> and?
>> >> that's?
>> >>> pretty tough to judge right now. Fans here tend to focus on the
> good?
>> >> things?
>> >>> and they certainly exist, but it is not that simple a decision,
> both?
>> >> because?
>> >>> of Baby himself but also the economic situation and what that >>>
> means
>> to?
>> >>> revenues affecting owner willingness to overspend.?
>> >>>?
>> >>> Kim?
>> >>> _______________________________________________?
>> >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> >>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> >>>?
>> >> _______________________________________________?
>> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> >> celtics at igtc.com?
>> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> >>?
>> >> _______________________________________________?
>> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> >> celtics at igtc.com?
>> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> >>?
>> > _______________________________________________?
>> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> > celtics at igtc.com?
>> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> >?
>> >?
>> >?
>> >?
>> > _______________________________________________?
>> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> > celtics at igtc.com?
>> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
>> celtics at igtc.com?
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff
> CelticsBlog.com
> doughnutholes.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
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> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 15 17:46:46 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about Ray trade
Message-ID: <500708.76525.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Knowing what I know of Ray (and that's only from reading articles about him and listening to Donny Marshall talk about him), he might be the kind of guy to 'settle' for 7-10 million per, IF it means keeping Rondo and the Big 3 together.  There's more value involved than simple contract compensation for Ray--he's put down roots in the NE, he's close to his alma mater, his personality gives him ample opportunity to pursue post-basketball business ventures, which are probably easier to find in the NE, and, by taking a pay cut, and helping maintain a winner, he engenders good will from the fan base and keeps his name visible.  Ray Allen is a kind of guy who can understand and appreciate those kind of meta-contractual perks.  Not to mention the millions he's already made, which might make him more willing to 'settle.'

Ryan

--- On Mon, 6/15/09, douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: douglas342 at aol.com <douglas342 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 12:15 PM
> Well, we probably are splitting hairs
> here.? I was trying to say that 
> folks in the NBA tend not to give up money contractually
> due to them.? 
> Sure, they can sign a contract for less than we might
> expect, but once 
> they ink a deal for $10 mil, they're not going to give up
> any of it.? 
> In fact, I don't think they could, as the amount counting
> towards the 
> cap would be $10 mil, even if the player only took $9
> mil.? I think.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeffclark at gmail.com
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:02 am
> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> 
> 
> 
> not to put too fine a point on it, but KG already took a
> pay cut once 
> in his
> career (still one of the largest deals in the league), but
> he took less
> annual money in his extension with us and if memory serves,
> he did the 
> same
> when he was still in Minn.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I hate to say this, but the only time I remember
> someone taking a cut 
> was
> > Magic Johnson, who gave up a whole mil of his 15 or so
> mil one time.? 
> Would
> > Ray re-up for short money?? Maybe.? But would KG and
> PP take a cut?? 
> No way.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:13 am
> > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade
> >
> >
> > We will see how much money they need, as we will with
> odom & ariza. I 
> have
> > heard odom will take less to stay, we will see. It is
> easier for long 
> term
> > vets that have had large contracts. Ariza could be
> their James posey,
> > looking for his pay day. Maybe the tall shooting
> forward like posey,
> > turkoglu, ariza & odom is becoming key? Paul can
> always play the 2 
> spot.
> > What is scary is the lakers are Still fairly young?
> > ?
> > Allen in a package for stoudamire & barbosa might
> make sense based on 
> kgs
> > condition. If we hsve to give up rondo and sign
> marbury we might have 
> to.
> > Standing pat won't get us # 18.?
> > ?
> > ?
> > On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> 
> wrote:?
> > ?
> > > Great points all around. I would hope that after
> ten years in the > 
> $10
> > million dollar range that all of the big three would
> accept > reduced 
> money
> > to extend their championship possibilities. Why go
> > anywhere else 
> for a few
> > more million and no peace of mind? Ok, I > know, I
> know--money still 
> talks.
> > But I like our chances with the > Alex scenario,
> that we might keep 
> them in
> > their dotage when they can > still play but see the
> need to scale 
> back the
> > dollars for the team. > I would. Think of being
> able to keep all 
> three for,
> > say, $28 mil.?
> > >?
> > > Agree also on the folly of trading into the high
> draft for a major >
> > piece. Ainge has done well with the Rondo & Davis
> approach and > 
> didn't give
> > up much for them. If Walker produces, we will have a
> > future nucleus
> > alongside the old men to keep it going. Bring in one
> > big man with 
> mle if
> > we can and draft us a Berea or a better Pruitt >
> and we're much 
> better off.
> > Gene?
> > >?
> > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> 
> wrote:?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> > > Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>?
> > > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 8:43 AM?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >>> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his
> contract expire and we get 
> >>>
> > nothing?
> > > for it??
> > >?
> > > If Ray can stay for, let's say, full MLE for the
> next 3 years - 
> that >
> > would?
> > > be ideal situation for the team. It will mean
> that we have him, and 
> >
> > enough?
> > > money to sign max salary vet player long term
> instead of gambling 
> on > a
> > high?
> > > pick in the draft that will not solve anything,
> but will push us?
> > > significantly back in chasing another ring.?
> > >?
> > > Biggest problem is that you will NOT get a top
> talent for him - if >
> > trading.?
> > > And that's the bottom line. People blaming him on
> his poor game > 
> playing
> > on 1?
> > > leg for pretty much most of the playoffs can
> blame KG or Paul to 
> the >
> > very?
> > > same degree. Why don't we just trade them all
> before they lose any >
> > value???
> > > Why just Ray alone???
> > >?
> > > Gotta love this logic... or complete lack
> thereof... Getting rid of 
> > a
> > player?
> > > does not take much brain: finding a right move
> that makes sense is 
> a >
> > bit?
> > > different ball game... And right now, everything
> I've seen so far - 
> >
> > does not?
> > > make any sense at all. Just takes us out of
> contention. I hope 
> Danny >
> > has a?
> > > bit more brain that that, I'll trust him on this
> one - as always...?
> > >?
> > > AG?
> > >?
> > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM, <douglas342 at aol.com>
> wrote:?
> > >?
> > >> If we assume (as we must) that we have a
> legitimate shot at a 
> title >>
> > with a?
> > >> healthy PGA, then the next question is
> whether we have a 
> legitimate >>
> > shot?
> > >> without Allen.? I don't think we do.? Even
> though he was pretty >> 
> much
> > shut?
> > >> down during the Orlando series (at no small
> cost to the guys who 
> >> had
> > to?
> > >> chase him all over the place), he was still
> 20 ppg and a 95% FT >>
> > shooter all?
> > >> year, and you don't replace that.? I also
> think that this is the >>
> > final year?
> > >> that the PGA can hope to bring a title.? By
> the end of 2009-10, >> 
> those
> > legs?
> > >> will have an awful lot of miles on them.?
> > >>?
> > >> BUT if we don't trade him, doesn't his
> contract expire and we get 
> >>
> > nothing?
> > >> for it??
> > >>?
> > >>?
> > >> -----Original Message-----?
> > >> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>?
> > >> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>?
> > >> Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am?
> > >> Subject: Re: questions about Ray trade?
> > >>?
> > >>?
> > >>?
> > >> Trading Ray for any 1st rounder means giving
> up on the 
> championship >>
> > and?
> > >> definite direction towards rebuilding and
> long term painful >> 
> process.
> > I?
> > >> don't?
> > >> think this is anywhere in line with the
> ownership committed to get 
> >>
> > another?
> > >> ring within the next year-two.?
> > >>?
> > >> IMO - unless Ray can bring a young 1st tier
> younger (but veteran?
> > >> enough) sharp-shooter capable of replacing
> him as the major piece 
> >> of
> > the?
> > >> trade puzzle (which is not realistic) -
> nothing will happen.?
> > >>?
> > >> AG?
> > >>?
> > >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kim Malo
> <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> >>
> > wrote:?
> > >>?
> > >>> At 08:54 AM 6/13/2009, gk_tyler at yahoo.com
> wro