From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 00:00:05 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: what draft of Hudson tells us
Message-ID: <378427.27644.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


No; it'll be due to the fact that Danny et al value Rondo/Perk more than the rest of the league.  With the way Danny sabotaged Rondo's value on the radio, you can bet he already knows that his definition of Rondo's value doesn't jive with the league's.

Put me in the camp that thinks Perk/Rondo can win a championship on a team where the Big 3 are but shells of their former selves (or not on the team).  I don't care if the brain trust doesn't know it now--provided they don't foolishly trade them away anytime soon.  Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart...

Ryan

--- On Tue, 6/30/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: what draft of Hudson tells us
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:14 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, but she forgot that Rondo and Perk are still the
> cornerstones of
> the futute,
> - martind42
> 
> -------------------
> 
> I didn't forget; ?I just don't agree with that. ?Nor do I
> feel Danny/Doc/Wyc ?do.
> 
> If they are unable to deal Rondo or Perk, ?it will only be
> due to
> other teams not wanting to take on these "cornerstone"
> players.
> 
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Wed Jul  1 00:26:45 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:26:45 -0400
Subject: Ariza
In-Reply-To: <253b689a0906301509x2f175d49gbd28bd9e544e835b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090630212352.470C0E1A30E@ignite.igtc.com>
	<253b689a0906301509x2f175d49gbd28bd9e544e835b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005101c9f9e2$9df39040$6601a8c0@troyscomputer>

George, very insightful and well said.  I totally agree with you in saying
that Free agent Ainge is very lacking, especially when compared to drafting
Danny!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of George Meyer
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:09 PM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Ariza

Eric, to cite current payroll is misleading, in that this simply reflects
the books at the end of the season, when 09 contracts have expired and teams
are starting the process of building for 09/10. A more accurate measure
would be our payrolls at the START of 2008/09, which I've included a link to
here:
http://proathletesonly.com/news/front-office/nba-team-payrolls-for-2008-09-s
eason/
You'll notice that as title defenders, we were actually 6th, a full $14.5
million out of first, and $6 million below 2nd and 3rd (roughly the
equivalent of one MLE player). I'm too dumb to do the percentages, but
hopefully you get my point.

The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has thrown $56 million at our "big
three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps to support them. The
difference between our third highest paid player (in 08/09) Ray Allen, and
our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something like 13 million dollars.
With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried players (ie: Rondo), that
money disparity reflects how little talent we have beyond the big three, and
how ownership has failed to commit the necessary resources to supporting
them in pursuit of another title (not mere "relevancy"). In my opinion,
Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key component of a championship team
go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a trainwreck like Tony Allen. As
for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of Mikki Moore, that speaks
for itself.

(and I would note, the original composition of our title-winning team was a
lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown, essentially, just happened
to be there. You don't always get lucky like that, and when you do, you
should be smart enough to hold onto the player combinations that have proven
to work, not arrogantly posturing about having three stars who everyone else
should be happy to play with for minimum NBA wage)

As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be your own. I was simply
indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as currently construed being any
kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market, via signing or sign-n-trade,
regardless of what our beloved team owner carelessly opines in the mass
media. However, since the usual "Danny's an idiot"/"how can you doubt Danny
he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh"
arguement will demean us to the level of a typical Celticsblog forum
discussion, I'll relent and give it to you - you're right, anything can
happen.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

>
> >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >saying "show me the money" to Danny Ainge is like trying to build a
> >functional rocketship with popsicle sticks. Which is to say, you
> >won't get very far. Unless, of course, your idea of "money" is a
> >pro-rated non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
>
> I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the Celtics cheap? We
> currently have the fifth highest payroll in the league, only 5% (chump
> change) behind the
> highest:
>
> http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to
> .html
>
> >Odom would be a cool get for the C's, but I'm convinced that Danny
> >and Wyc are trying to thread the needle on 09/10 in order to flail
> >around in the sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be offering up Billy
> >Walker (and picks!) for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home empty
> >handed in the most noble fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears,
> >naturally). Meanwhile, we'll content ourselves with Oberto and
> >whatever other marginal NBA'er we can find with bills to pay and the
> >superficial skill-set  to address our many gaping
> holes
> >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG when he goes down again in
April).
>
> I'm even more confused -- isn't this the same Danny who successfully
> traded for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting in a championship?
> Wouldn't that be the best set of trades in recent NBA history?
>
> I can see complaining (some) about Danny's free-agent signings. But
> saying he can't trade? I don't get it.
>
> -- Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: 06/30/09
06:10:00



From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 01:32:19 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: House back next season
Message-ID: <562943.69262.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Herald reporting that Eddie House picked up his player option and will play for the Cs next year for 2.9 mill.

One less spot for Lester Hudson ; )

?-Ellie



      

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 02:39:35 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: House back next season
Message-ID: <147470.78534.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Good for House.? He doesn't want to show that his value may be less than the 2.9 mil.? And poor Mr. Hudson will have to climb a mountain leaning toward him, since one of Walker & Giddens might make the team.? I would love to see what Hudson can do, but I think Marbury is more likely to be with us.? Interesting options out there; I'm not crazy about Rasheed, and crazy is a good word when speaking of him, but he has lots of defensive ability that we could use.? Don't know who would be the best big for us.? Gene

--- On Tue, 6/30/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Subject: House back next season
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 8:32 PM

Herald reporting that Eddie House picked up his player option and will play for the Cs next year for 2.9 mill.

One less spot for Lester Hudson ; )

?-Ellie



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 05:07:45 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: House
Message-ID: <407201.25713.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


That's good news, Ellie. Now I hope Danny can re-sign Marbury; I'm surprised to be typing that, but I don't see a better backup for Rondo on the horizon. Add 'Sheed, if he's still got gas in the tank, and maybe one more piece - a defensive-minded swingman with size, like a Dahntay Jones or Anthony Parker, if Ainge can clear a roster spot by cutting Pruitt loose - and I think we'd be well-positioned for another run next year. 

I'd be in favor of keeping Walker around, though, unless we were to move him for a real impact player. 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Jul  1 10:57:34 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:57:34 -0400
Subject: House
In-Reply-To: <407201.25713.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <407201.25713.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200907011057.n61AvaVR007852@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

I was kinda secretly hoping House would opt out, but knew he wouldn't. $2.9 guaranteed in the current market? Easy money.

PSR

PATRICK S. RYAN, Lieutenant Colonel, USAFR
Director, Communications & Information
22 AF/A6
1364 Chennault Circle
Dobbins Air Reserve Base, Georgia 30069-4904
DSN: 625-3172
678-655-3172
patrick.ryan at dobbins.af.mil


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Peter Delevett
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:08 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: House


That's good news, Ellie. Now I hope Danny can re-sign Marbury; I'm surprised to be typing that, but I don't see a better backup for Rondo on the horizon. Add 'Sheed, if he's still got gas in the tank, and maybe one more piece - a defensive-minded swingman with size, like a Dahntay Jones or Anthony Parker, if Ainge can clear a roster spot by cutting Pruitt loose - and I think we'd be well-positioned for another run next year. 

I'd be in favor of keeping Walker around, though, unless we were to move him for a real impact player. 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Jul  1 11:12:45 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 07:12:45 -0400
Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
In-Reply-To: <0KM000F81J8YSXLD@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0KM000F81J8YSXLD@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200907011112.n61BCoWW008705@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.

Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and Memphis.


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 12:32:51 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 05:32:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.

Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)

Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not a fan.? We need another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's see him play.

and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
?Artest
?Al Horford
?Marc Gasol

?-Ellie

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM

Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.

Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and Memphis.

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 13:08:41 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: summer league roster
Message-ID: <593991.54376.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Other than Giddens (a 2/3) and Bill Walker, all I see are guards so far: Pruitt, Hudson, Lofton, and Bryan Mullins from the so. ill salukis.? Guess it's hard to find bigs to round out a summer league roster unless you drafted them (not likely at 58...)

check this out from the Big Dead Sidebar (!) on Mullins. I don't like the sound of stress fractures at that young an age.

http://tinyurl.com/mmztuy


      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Wed Jul  1 14:08:09 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:08:09 -0400
Subject: Dear capomycap
Message-ID: <6BBD636D.3A37.4C73.93B2.C0C3E46BB79A@aol.com>

George Meyer - Your posts are wonderful,? well-written,
well-informed, edgy, and humorous to boot.?
A breath of fresh air.?

None of this "I wouldn?t trade Perk for Dwight Howard"?
nonsense from you.? And your "cheer-led by Mr. Spears"?
remark is oh so true.

Bring back the pre-bankrupt Boston Globe writers (Peter May?)?
who dared to be honest, and refused to be held hostage by?
job security and having to kowtow to Celt media services?
czar, Jeff Twiss.? You know, the Celt pimp who personifies
Franken's "LIES and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them."?

May I ask, without embarrassing you, if you are the?
same George Meyer who was removed from the CelticsBlog?
due to your honesty and humor, and more importantly,?
are you the Emmy Award winning writer known for his?
brilliant writing on the TV show, The Simpsons??

This list never ceases to amaze.

Egg?

From eggcentric at aol.com  Wed Jul  1 14:24:45 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:24:45 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BEB2D268.A038.4FA5.9B15.0640A3F2F1D4@aol.com>


On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:32:51 AM, "Ellie Cutler" <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.
Ellie - Are we really sure we want a team that has bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury 
all on it?at the same time? ?It's enough to make the civilized Ray Allen beg for a trade.

Instead of spending the full MLE on Rasheed, I would prefer that the Celts split their MLE dollars
between?the original two free agents on their list ... good guys McDyess and Grant Hill.

As for Marbury, we will probably be able to re-sign him on the cheap, since no other team 
was interested?in him last season and he did little with us on the court to change their minds.

Egg?

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 14:31:18 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 07:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <864613.56440.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Any detail on Hudson outplaying Derrick Rose?? Was this in last year's game v. Memphis?

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
Subject: 2010 roster
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:32 AM


Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.

Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)

Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not a fan.? We need another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's see him play.

and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
?Artest
?Al Horford
?Marc Gasol

?-Ellie

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM

Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.

Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and Memphis.

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Wed Jul  1 14:40:09 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:40:09 -0400
Subject: Dear capomycap
In-Reply-To: <6BBD636D.3A37.4C73.93B2.C0C3E46BB79A@aol.com>
References: <6BBD636D.3A37.4C73.93B2.C0C3E46BB79A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670907010740n487b9f18p13b4be77b071f712@mail.gmail.com>

nobody has ever been banned from celticsblog for having an opinion - we only
ban people for being disrespectful to other posters

2009/7/1 eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>

> George Meyer - Your posts are wonderful,  well-written,
> well-informed, edgy, and humorous to boot.
> A breath of fresh air.
>
> None of this "I wouldn?t trade Perk for Dwight Howard"
> nonsense from you.  And your "cheer-led by Mr. Spears"
> remark is oh so true.
>
> Bring back the pre-bankrupt Boston Globe writers (Peter May?)
> who dared to be honest, and refused to be held hostage by
> job security and having to kowtow to Celt media services
> czar, Jeff Twiss.  You know, the Celt pimp who personifies
> Franken's "LIES and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them."
>
> May I ask, without embarrassing you, if you are the
> same George Meyer who was removed from the CelticsBlog
> due to your honesty and humor, and more importantly,
> are you the Emmy Award winning writer known for his
> brilliant writing on the TV show, The Simpsons?
>
> This list never ceases to amaze.
>
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Wed Jul  1 15:08:57 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:08:57 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <BEB2D268.A038.4FA5.9B15.0640A3F2F1D4@aol.com>
References: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<BEB2D268.A038.4FA5.9B15.0640A3F2F1D4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200907011509.n61F8wHM014795@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

Another wise-ass comment (Sorry): maybe we could come up with a headband system - green for good, white for bad...it could help us tell people apart on the court by their off the court behavior.  Maybe anything over 4 technical fouls per two-month time period, or either 2 misdemeanors, or a felony in civilian life and instead of the "Scarlet Letter" of Hester Prinne fame we slap a white headband (logo up or down - I'm unsure) on them. 

In all seriousness - The NBA isn't social experimentation. It is a living breathing system with individuals of all types, just like the "real" world (whatever the Hell that is). Anyone that's been a manager of anything knows you have good employees and bad...some so bad you fire them outright, others just on the cusp taking up most of your management time, but they work so hard you often keep them on based on their production versus their attitude.  This is the same thing - is the production on the court worth the headaches off. You'll never have a perfect group and win - there are just too many variables in such an open system to meld those two things. Our champions two years ago...they had their issues and problem children - don't believe otherwise.

This doesn't mean I'd sign Sheed either, but that's just me unwilling to assume the added risk and time to manage him for that extra level of production were I in that decision making position. Maybe Danny and Doc would - it's their butts on the line assuming that risk (and our resulting criticism or support of it as it unfolds).


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:25 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: 2010 roster


On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:32:51 AM, "Ellie Cutler" <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote:

Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.
Ellie - Are we really sure we want a team that has bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury 
all on it?at the same time? ?It's enough to make the civilized Ray Allen beg for a trade.

Instead of spending the full MLE on Rasheed, I would prefer that the Celts split their MLE dollars
between?the original two free agents on their list ... good guys McDyess and Grant Hill.

As for Marbury, we will probably be able to re-sign him on the cheap, since no other team 
was interested?in him last season and he did little with us on the court to change their minds.

Egg?
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 15:11:15 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I resemble that remark
Message-ID: <546218.8393.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"wouldn't trade Perk for Dwight Howard"? Well, I once said I wouldn't trade Big Al for Howard; still not sure I would.? I'm not sure, either, whether anyone ever said that they wouldn't trade Perk for Howard, but I would understand it if they did, Perk being a classic center and Howard a PF playing center.? Talent evaluation and our vast differences on who's got it, and more importantly, how certain talents translate into winning, is somewhat objective and clearly very subjective.??There's talent and there's the ability to translate it into winning.? Howard (the one without a ring)?still has a ways to go offensively to be what people think he already is, imo.? But I like him and think he's coming along nicely.? Gene


      

From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 15:49:46 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sheed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.75.1246460954.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.75.1246460954.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <813726.15864.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

if i'm not mistaken, players and coaches love sheed for his passion and ability to play with or without the ball. he's just an occasional knucklehead on the technical foul front. the pistons won a championship with him, man. i'll take him on my team any day, warts and all. 


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 16:09:22 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:09:22 -0400
Subject: sheed
In-Reply-To: <813726.15864.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701120922.OYUPC.131424.imail@eastrmwml32>

I'm not a big fan of Rashweed, but I have to admit, he is long, can shoot and has championship experience.  He would have to be relegated to coming off the bench, but if he could handle that, he'd help us out greatly.
I'd prefer McDyess first, but that isn't going to happen.  He probably is the  next best target to play a major role for us.  Too bad we can't get Artest.  We'd then have the baddes asses in the league.  Detroit Pistons redux.
---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> if i'm not mistaken, players and coaches love sheed for his passion and ability to play with or without the ball. he's just an occasional knucklehead on the technical foul front. the pistons won a championship with him, man. i'll take him on my team any day, warts and all. 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Wed Jul  1 16:55:18 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:55:18 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c9fa6c$b7295100$6601a8c0@troyscomputer>

Great list Ellie.  I would add 1 other spot at wing which I would love to
see either M. Daniels or M. Carroll.   Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ellie Cutler
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:33 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: 2010 roster

Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker
up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to
me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you
all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a
full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty
amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come
in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.

Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)

Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not a fan.? We need
another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's
see him play.

and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
?Artest
?Al Horford
?Marc Gasol

?-Ellie

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
<Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
To: celtics at igtc.com
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM

Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.

Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and Memphis.

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2211 - Release Date: 07/01/09
05:53:00



From tsb33 at windstream.net  Wed Jul  1 16:57:02 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:57:02 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <BEB2D268.A038.4FA5.9B15.0640A3F2F1D4@aol.com>
References: <306353.37934.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<BEB2D268.A038.4FA5.9B15.0640A3F2F1D4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c9fa6c$f4bb3010$6601a8c0@troyscomputer>

Just say NO to Hill!!

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of eggcentric
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:25 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: 2010 roster


On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:32:51 AM, "Ellie Cutler" <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
wrote:

Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen Davis & Bill Walker
up front and Marbury, House & Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to
me.?? Hudson can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know you
all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what Marbury can do w/a
full season.? He seems to be realistic about his role, which is pretty
amazing - good for him.? And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come
in and shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young players, too.
Ellie - Are we really sure we want a team that has bonkers madmen Garnett,
Rasheed, and Marbury all on it?at the same time? ?It's enough to make the
civilized Ray Allen beg for a trade.

Instead of spending the full MLE on Rasheed, I would prefer that the Celts
split their MLE dollars between?the original two free agents on their list
... good guys McDyess and Grant Hill.

As for Marbury, we will probably be able to re-sign him on the cheap, since
no other team was interested?in him last season and he did little with us on
the court to change their minds.

Egg
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2211 - Release Date: 07/01/09
05:53:00



From capomycap at gmail.com  Wed Jul  1 17:23:03 2009
From: capomycap at gmail.com (George Meyer)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:23:03 -0700
Subject: Dear capomycap
In-Reply-To: <6BBD636D.3A37.4C73.93B2.C0C3E46BB79A@aol.com>
References: <6BBD636D.3A37.4C73.93B2.C0C3E46BB79A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <253b689a0907011023j17acba79ibe6f90d17a949c43@mail.gmail.com>

Good Egg,
you make me blush! thank you. And sadly, yes, I am indeed the former George
Meyer (Celticsblog scourge) but not the latter (genius comedy writer/space
memorabilia collector).

As for the world of "Perk (and Gabe Pruitt)-for-Howard (and a second
rounder!)" trades, I was amused to see a poster on that oft-mind-numbing
outlet comment that giving Jason Kidd the MLE would be a bad move, because
we don't want to spend that much for Rondo's BACKUP (emphasis mine). *sigh*
Kids these days...


2009/7/1 eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>

> George Meyer - Your posts are wonderful,  well-written,
> well-informed, edgy, and humorous to boot.
> A breath of fresh air.
>
> None of this "I wouldn?t trade Perk for Dwight Howard"
> nonsense from you.  And your "cheer-led by Mr. Spears"
> remark is oh so true.
>
> Bring back the pre-bankrupt Boston Globe writers (Peter May?)
> who dared to be honest, and refused to be held hostage by
> job security and having to kowtow to Celt media services
> czar, Jeff Twiss.  You know, the Celt pimp who personifies
> Franken's "LIES and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them."
>
> May I ask, without embarrassing you, if you are the
> same George Meyer who was removed from the CelticsBlog
> due to your honesty and humor, and more importantly,
> are you the Emmy Award winning writer known for his
> brilliant writing on the TV show, The Simpsons?
>
> This list never ceases to amaze.
>
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From eggcentric at aol.com  Wed Jul  1 17:31:00 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:31:00 -0400
Subject: Dear capomycap
In-Reply-To: <253b689a0907011023j17acba79ibe6f90d17a949c43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <744271DB.7EAB.4C03.BD2D.F6A2FD574163@aol.com>


On Jul 1, 2009, at 1:23:03 PM, "George Meyer" <capomycap at gmail.com> 
wrote:

Good Egg,
you make me blush! thank you. And sadly, yes, I am indeed the former 
George
Meyer (Celticsblog scourge) but not the latter (genius comedy 
writer/space
memorabilia collector).
------------

Oh, then forget it; I take back my compliments.

From douglas342 at aol.com  Wed Jul  1 18:10:13 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:10:13 -0400
Subject: Dear capomycap
In-Reply-To: <744271DB.7EAB.4C03.BD2D.F6A2FD574163@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CBC88E504A0E6D-1358-D84@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com>

Egg, I believe the appropriate response would have been "d'oh!"


-----Original Message-----
From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2009 10:31 am
Subject: Re: Dear capomycap


On Jul 1, 2009, at 1:23:03 PM, "George Meyer" <capomycap at gmail.com> 
wrote:?
?
Good Egg,?
you make me blush! thank you. And sadly, yes, I am indeed the former 
George?
Meyer (Celticsblog scourge) but not the latter (genius comedy 
writer/space?
memorabilia collector).?
------------?
?
Oh, then forget it; I take back my compliments.?
_______________________________________________?
The Boston Celtics Mailing List?
celtics at igtc.com?
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics?


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 18:12:47 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Roster
Message-ID: <204325.87712.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Egg wrote: "Instead of spending the full MLE on Rasheed, I would prefer that the Celts split their MLE dollars between the original two free agents on their list ... good guys McDyess and Grant Hill."

Egg, I'd be totally happy with that outcome as well. 

Martin, curious: you say McDyess "isn't gonna happen." Hsve you read anything definitive about his being headed elsewhere? 




      


From jozersky at optonline.net  Wed Jul  1 18:14:43 2009
From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:14:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: yahoo sports: Ainge on Sheed's doorstep at midnight.
In-Reply-To: <20090701120922.OYUPC.131424.imail@eastrmwml32>
References: <813726.15864.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20090701120922.OYUPC.131424.imail@eastrmwml32>
Message-ID: <e3dd809f312f7.4a4ba793@optonline.net>

According to Yahoo Sports, Sources say Boston Celtics GM Danny Ainge and assistant director of basketball operations Leo Papile showed up on Rasheed Wallace?s(notes)  doorstep just after midnight Wednesday to make their recruiting push.
?I know he is definitely considering playing for them,? one league source said.
The Celtics also have expressed interest in Toronto Raptors guard Anthony Parker(notes) .Personally, my number one quest would be to get Ron Artest. You could mail us the trophy if we got him.Josh----- Original Message -----From: martind42 at cox.netDate: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:09 pmSubject: Re: sheedTo: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: steve knight > I'm not a big fan of Rashweed, but I have to admit, he is long, > can shoot and has championship experience.  He would have to be > relegated to coming off the bench, but if he could handle that, > he'd help us out greatly.> I'd prefer McDyess first, but that isn't going to happen.  He > probably is the  next best target to play a major role for us.  > Too bad we can't get Artest.  We'd then have the baddes asses in > the league.  Detroit Pistons redux.> ---- steve knight  wrote: > > if i'm not mistaken, players and coaches love sheed for his > passion and ability to play with or without the ball. he's just > an occasional knucklehead on the technical foul front. the > pistons won a championship with him, man. i'll take him on my > team any day, warts and all. > > > > > >       > > _______________________________________________> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List> > celtics at igtc.com> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> 

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 18:42:09 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season.  It was Rose's first game of his college career, and, coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community college ball.  3 games later he put up a quadruple-double.  The kid can obviously ball.  He might be small, but he loves the game and he's more than a scorer--he's a player.  It would have been nice had House opted-out, but I still expect Hudson to beat out Pruitt and make the team; assuming Pruitt's option is even picked up.  Hudson is the anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he wants.  Pruitt sadly is a wallflower.

Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:31 AM
> Any detail on Hudson outplaying
> Derrick Rose?? Was this in last year's game v. Memphis?
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: 2010 roster
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:32 AM
> 
> 
> Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen
> Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House &
> Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson
> can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know
> you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what
> Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic
> about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.?
> And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and
> shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young
> players, too.
> 
> Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)
> 
> Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not
> a fan.? We need another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a
> backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's see him play.
> 
> and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
> ?Artest
> ?Al Horford
> ?Marc Gasol
> 
> ?-Ellie
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> wrote:
> 
> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM
> 
> Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.
> 
> Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and
> Memphis.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  1 18:50:33 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:50:33 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W19F997811D198AEB86B4EDA52E0@phx.gbl>


Not that you are Ryan, but it's tough to judge based on one game. I remember Marcus Camby completely outplaying Tim Duncan when they were at UMass and WF, respectfully. I mean..  Marcus embarrassed him that day. But who in their right mind would take the career of Marcus over Tim being able to look back now?
 
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:42:09 -0700
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> 
> Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season. It was Rose's first game of his college career, and, coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community college ball. 3 games later he put up a quadruple-double. The kid can obviously ball. He might be small, but he loves the game and he's more than a scorer--he's a player. It would have been nice had House opted-out, but I still expect Hudson to beat out Pruitt and make the team; assuming Pruitt's option is even picked up. Hudson is the anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he wants. Pruitt sadly is a wallflower.
> 
> Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:31 AM
> > Any detail on Hudson outplaying
> > Derrick Rose?  Was this in last year's game v. Memphis?
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: 2010 roster
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:32 AM
> > 
> > 
> > Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen
> > Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House &
> > Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.   Hudson
> > can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know
> > you all think I'm nuts ; ).   I'd really like to see what
> > Marbury can do w/a full season.  He seems to be realistic
> > about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him. 
> > And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and
> > shoot the 3.    It's a good match of vets and young
> > players, too.
> > 
> > Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)
> > 
> > Tony Allen?  If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not
> > a fan.  We need another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a
> > backup for this.  Giddens?  Let's see him play.
> > 
> > and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
> >  Artest
> >  Al Horford
> >  Marc Gasol
> > 
> >  -Ellie
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM
> > 
> > Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.
> > 
> > Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and
> > Memphis.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. 
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 19:04:29 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ariza
Message-ID: <906308.57761.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


George, what exactly would you have him do?  You identified the problem, but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores market demands or practically any long term thinking beyond the here and now.  Yes, almost our entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging Hall-of-Famers.  As such, it seems wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling out the rest of the roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried rookies and bargain basement free agent signings represent the safest investments and allow the greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age, flexibility which is paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury, and high salaries.  But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we were the NY Knicks, who have consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign high risk high reward players almost every season without fail.  That hasn't exactly worked out, but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the willingness to win.  But
 success takes more than will--it takes a little intelligence, something you can't seem to understand.

Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer of 2008 free agent sweepstakes.  Danny identified that summer as being low in free agent talent while at the same time being a seller's market.  Why buy high in a low quality store?  Especially when you can wait a year and buy low in a high quality store.  That was the plan and if you wait a month you'll see a shiny new MLE-level player staring you in the face.  What will you say then?  That you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player (Posey) instead of underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed Wallace), even when the risk of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically nullified by Garnett's season-ending injury?

Ryan
--- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has thrown $56
> million at our "big
> three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps to support
> them. The
> difference between our third highest paid player (in 08/09)
> Ray Allen, and
> our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something like 13
> million dollars.
> With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried players
> (ie: Rondo), that
> money disparity reflects how little talent we have beyond
> the big three, and
> how ownership has failed to commit the necessary resources
> to supporting
> them in pursuit of another title (not mere "relevancy"). In
> my opinion,
> Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key component of a
> championship team
> go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a trainwreck
> like Tony Allen. As
> for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of Mikki
> Moore, that speaks
> for itself.
> 
> (and I would note, the original composition of our
> title-winning team was a
> lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> essentially, just happened
> to be there. You don't always get lucky like that, and when
> you do, you
> should be smart enough to hold onto the player combinations
> that have proven
> to work, not arrogantly posturing about having three stars
> who everyone else
> should be happy to play with for minimum NBA wage)
> 
> As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be your own. I
> was simply
> indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as currently
> construed being any
> kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market, via signing
> or sign-n-trade,
> regardless of what our beloved team owner carelessly opines
> in the mass
> media. However, since the usual "Danny's an idiot"/"how can
> you doubt Danny
> he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane Wade and
> Chris Bosh"
> arguement will demean us to the level of a typical
> Celticsblog forum
> discussion, I'll relent and give it to you - you're right,
> anything can
> happen.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >saying "show me the money" to Danny Ainge is like
> trying to build a
> > >functional rocketship with popsicle sticks. Which
> is to say, you won't get
> > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea of "money"
> is a pro-rated
> > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> >
> > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the Celtics
> cheap? We currently
> > have
> > the fifth highest payroll in the league, only 5%
> (chump change) behind the
> > highest:
> >
> > http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> >
> > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's, but I'm
> convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10 in order
> to flail around in the
> > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be offering up
> Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home empty
> handed in the most noble
> > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears, naturally).
> Meanwhile, we'll content
> > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other marginal
> NBA'er we can find with
> > >bills to pay and the superficial skill-set?
> to address our many gaping
> > holes
> > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG when he
> goes down again in April).
> >
> > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the same Danny
> who successfully traded
> > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting in a
> championship? Wouldn't that
> > be the best set of trades in recent NBA history?
> >
> > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's free-agent
> signings. But saying
> > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> >
> > -- Eric
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 19:06:48 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <193931.98086.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yes, obviously, Rose is the better player.  What I was getting at is that Hudson was a steal at 58 and will be a better player than House or Pruitt when it's all said and done.

Camby hasn't been too shabby either.  His defense has always been impressive.  It's just that Duncan can do it all.

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Shawn Niles <shizzjr at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: 2010 roster
> To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:50 PM
> 
> Not that you are Ryan, but it's tough to judge based on one
> game. I remember Marcus Camby completely outplaying Tim
> Duncan when they were at UMass and WF, respectfully. I
> mean..? Marcus embarrassed him that day. But who in
> their right mind would take the career of Marcus over Tim
> being able to look back now?
>  
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:42:09 -0700
> > From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > 
> > 
> > Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season. It
> was Rose's first game of his college career, and,
> coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at
> Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very
> different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community
> college ball. 3 games later he put up a quadruple-double.
> The kid can obviously ball. He might be small, but he loves
> the game and he's more than a scorer--he's a player. It
> would have been nice had House opted-out, but I still expect
> Hudson to beat out Pruitt and make the team; assuming
> Pruitt's option is even picked up. Hudson is the
> anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he wants. Pruitt sadly
> is a wallflower.
> > 
> > Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:31 AM
> > > Any detail on Hudson outplaying
> > > Derrick Rose?? Was this in last year's game
> v. Memphis?
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: 2010 roster
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:32 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of
> Rasheed, Glen
> > > Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury,
> House &
> > > Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to
> me.???Hudson
> > > can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose
> (I know
> > > you all think I'm nuts ; ).???I'd
> really like to see what
> > > Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to
> be realistic
> > > about his role, which is pretty amazing - good
> for him. 
> > > And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come
> in and
> > > shoot the 3.? ? It's a good match of
> vets and young
> > > players, too.
> > > 
> > > Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that
> nasty?)
> > > 
> > > Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another
> wing, but I'm not
> > > a fan.? We need another 4/5, and I still
> like Scal as a
> > > backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's see
> him play.
> > > 
> > > and unrealistically, players I would like to
> aquire:
> > >? Artest
> > >? Al Horford
> > >? Marc Gasol
> > > 
> > >? -Ellie
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > > Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
> > > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM
> > > 
> > > Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.
> > > 
> > > Other teams cited as courting Davis' services:
> Detroit and
> > > Memphis.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >? ? ???
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >? ? ???
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. 
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 19:31:30 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs.  A couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine trade being the greatest).  Well, let me amend that: not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank up there with his worst.  Sad day for Cs fans today.  After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt, Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after he's shown he can actually play?  Bullshit.


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0



Powe feels Celtics career over
By Mark Murphy
Wednesday, July 1, 2009 


The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they delve into the free agent market, have decided to part ways with Leon Powe.

That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward following a conversation with President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.

Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an unrestricted free agent.

Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.

?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.?

Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic was finished.

?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of whether he got the sense the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to move on.

?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his connection with the Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up a roster spot for someone else.?

Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee surgery.

?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.

Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another matter.

?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead of schedule.?

Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be able to return to action by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for a return closer to February.



      


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  1 19:54:30 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:54:30 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W433C83370E8BA20159B64AA52E0@phx.gbl>


Well clearly the issue here is his health. There's a chance he may not play at all next year. I'm not sure it's smart to sign a player who may not even play. Were Leon healthy, I don't think we're having this discussion because he would have been signed.


 
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:31:30 -0700
> From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com
> Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> 
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs. A couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine trade being the greatest). Well, let me amend that: not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank up there with his worst. Sad day for Cs fans today. After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt, Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after he's shown he can actually play? Bullshit.
> 
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> 
> 
> 
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> 
> 
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they delve into the free agent market, have decided to part ways with Leon Powe.
> 
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward following a conversation with President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> 
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> 
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> 
> ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.?
> 
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic was finished.
> 
> ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of whether he got the sense the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to move on.
> 
> ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his connection with the Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up a roster spot for someone else.?
> 
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
> 
> ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> 
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another matter.
> 
> ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead of schedule.?
> 
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be able to return to action by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for a return closer to February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 20:41:51 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
Message-ID: <542398.43211.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Yesssss, the apple of Danny Ainge's eye, the object of his affection 
these last four years, has been reunited with Danny at last in the 
Summer League. Robert Swift will play for the Celtics summer league team. 

Then in August, Ainge and Swift will be in P Town together, taking in the Marc Jacobs wedding...

And it seems like a good bet -- as long as he can avoid anymore tattoos or injuries -- Ainge's red-headed Goth stepson will make the Celtics. They need a 3rd string center, Ainge loves Swft's potential as a defender/rebounder/shot-blocker with size, and Davis/Powe/Moore are heading elsewhere.

Ray
  



      


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 21:01:32 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <581789.60504.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks.? Great article; best I've seen.? Makes him the kind of player you want to see succeed; hope we get to see the Orlando league next week.? Gene

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 2010 roster
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:42 PM


Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season.? It was Rose's first game of his college career, and, coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community college ball.? 3 games later he put up a quadruple-double.? The kid can obviously ball.? He might be small, but he loves the game and he's more than a scorer--he's a player.? It would have been nice had House opted-out, but I still expect Hudson to beat out Pruitt and make the team; assuming Pruitt's option is even picked up.? Hudson is the anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he wants.? Pruitt sadly is a wallflower.

Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464

Ryan







      

From keltsfan at comcast.net  Wed Jul  1 21:43:42 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:43:42 -0700
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b601c9fa95$011bccc0$03536640$@net>

How exactly can he play?  Isn't he rehabbing from an ACL tear and subsequent surgery?  Unfortunately, this kid has a major history of knee trouble.  It's the second ACL reconstruction on that knee I believe.  The roster slot is an important consideration and a million bucks could be better spent elsewhere given the injury history and the need to fill that roster slot with a player that can actually play.  I'm all for charity but isn't the goal here to win another championship before Garnett hangs it up?

Ravi


> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:32 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> 
> 
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs.  A couple days ago, I
> said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there with one of
> Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine trade being the greatest).  Well, let me
> amend that: not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel welcome at
> the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank up there with his worst.  Sad
> day for Cs fans today.  After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt, Giddens and Moore last season
> and watching them contribute almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy,
> even after he's shown he can actually play?  Bullshit.
> 
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sp
> orts&position=0
> 
> 
> 
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> 
> 
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they delve into the free agent
> market, have decided to part ways with Leon Powe.
> 
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward following a conversation
> with President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> 
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a qualifying offer from
> the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an unrestricted free
> agent.
> 
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after midnight, including
> Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> 
> ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,? Powe said today. ?I love
> the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.?
> 
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic was finished.
> 
> ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of whether he got the sense the Celtics might
> be interested in re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they wouldn?t (offer a
> qualifying offer), so I just have to move on.
> 
> ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his connection with the Celtics was
> finished. They told me, ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that he
> wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to make sure I came back, but Danny
> came to me yesterday saying that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking
> up a roster spot for someone else.?
> 
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing Powe, though only after
> he recovers from knee surgery.
> 
> ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once he gets healthy,?
> Ainge said.
> 
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the qualifying offer didn?t
> come. But disappointment is another matter.
> 
> ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I
> don?t want people thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is going to
> play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead of schedule.?
> 
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham, arrived in Los
> Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has progressed
> so well that he might be able to return to action by December. Powe said that doctors have
> put his window for a return closer to February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 22:03:10 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:03:10 -0400
Subject: Roster
In-Reply-To: <204325.87712.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701180310.I0IJK.139109.imail@eastrmwml37>

Last I read, he wanted to stay put.  I would love him to change his mind.
I've been a big MCDyess fan since he came into the league.
---- Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Egg wrote: "Instead of spending the full MLE on Rasheed, I would prefer that the Celts split their MLE dollars between the original two free agents on their list ... good guys McDyess and Grant Hill."
> 
> Egg, I'd be totally happy with that outcome as well. 
> 
> Martin, curious: you say McDyess "isn't gonna happen." Hsve you read anything definitive about his being headed elsewhere? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 22:04:08 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:04:08 -0400
Subject: yahoo sports: Ainge on Sheed's doorstep at midnight.
In-Reply-To: <e3dd809f312f7.4a4ba793@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20090701180408.YKUFJ.139139.imail@eastrmwml37>

We would be the baddest asses in the world if Artest was with us.  
---- jozersky at optonline.net wrote: 
> According to Yahoo Sports, Sources say Boston Celtics GM Danny Ainge and assistant director of basketball operations Leo Papile showed up on Rasheed Wallace?s(notes)  doorstep just after midnight Wednesday to make their recruiting push.
> ?I know he is definitely considering playing for them,? one league source said.
> The Celtics also have expressed interest in Toronto Raptors guard Anthony Parker(notes) .Personally, my number one quest would be to get Ron Artest. You could mail us the trophy if we got him.Josh----- Original Message -----From: martind42 at cox.netDate: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:09 pmSubject: Re: sheedTo: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: steve knight > I'm not a big fan of Rashweed, but I have to admit, he is long, > can shoot and has championship experience.  He would have to be > relegated to coming off the bench, but if he could handle that, > he'd help us out greatly.> I'd prefer McDyess first, but that isn't going to happen.  He > probably is the  next best target to play a major role for us.  > Too bad we can't get Artest.  We'd then have the baddes asses in > the league.  Detroit Pistons redux.> ---- steve knight  wrote: > > if i'm not mistaken, players and coaches love sheed for his > passion and ability to play with or without the ball. he's just > an occasional knucklehead on the technical foul front. the > pistons won a championship with him, man. i'll take him on my > team any day, warts and all. > > > > > >       > > _______________________________________________> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List> > celtics at igtc.com> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 22:04:50 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:04:50 -0400
Subject: 2010 roster
In-Reply-To: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701180450.2PMW5.139158.imail@eastrmwml37>

Small, but freakishly long-longer than Rondo.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season.  It was Rose's first game of his college career, and, coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community college ball.  3 games later he put up a quadruple-double.  The kid can obviously ball.  He might be small, but he loves the game and he's more than a scorer--he's a player.  It would have been nice had House opted-out, but I still expect Hudson to beat out Pruitt and make the team; assuming Pruitt's option is even picked up.  Hudson is the anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he wants.  Pruitt sadly is a wallflower.
> 
> Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:31 AM
> > Any detail on Hudson outplaying
> > Derrick Rose?? Was this in last year's game v. Memphis?
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: 2010 roster
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:32 AM
> > 
> > 
> > Our champ. starting five, plus a bench of Rasheed, Glen
> > Davis & Bill Walker up front and Marbury, House &
> > Hudson in the backcourt looks pretty good to me.?? Hudson
> > can score, defend, and has outplayed Derrick Rose (I know
> > you all think I'm nuts ; ).?? I'd really like to see what
> > Marbury can do w/a full season.? He seems to be realistic
> > about his role, which is pretty amazing - good for him.?
> > And this gives us a bench backcourt that can come in and
> > shoot the 3.??? It's a good match of vets and young
> > players, too.
> > 
> > Sheed & Walker are both tough (or is that nasty?)
> > 
> > Tony Allen?? If we don't pick up another wing, but I'm not
> > a fan.? We need another 4/5, and I still like Scal as a
> > backup for this.? Giddens?? Let's see him play.
> > 
> > and unrealistically, players I would like to aquire:
> > ?Artest
> > ?Al Horford
> > ?Marc Gasol
> > 
> > ?-Ellie
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: Tender offer made to Davis
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:12 AM
> > 
> > Boston Herald reports the Cs made it official.
> > 
> > Other teams cited as courting Davis' services: Detroit and
> > Memphis.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 22:06:58 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:06:58 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701180658.DC8HY.139222.imail@eastrmwml37>

Cana't waste a roster spot on a question mark, when there are other players than can contribute immediately.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs.  A couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine trade being the greatest).  Well, let me amend that: not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank up there with his worst.  Sad day for Cs fans today.  After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt, Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after he's shown he can actually play?  Bullshit.


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0



Powe feels Celtics career over
By Mark Murphy
Wednesday, July 1, 2009 


The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they delve into the free agent market, have decided to part ways with Leon Powe.

That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward following a conversation with President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.

Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an unrestricted free agent.

Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.

?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.?

Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic was finished.

?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of whether he got the sense the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to move on.

?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his connection with the Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up a roster spot for someone else.?

Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee surgery.

?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.

Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another matter.

?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead of schedule.?

Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be able to return to action by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for a return closer to February.



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Wed Jul  1 22:18:09 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:18:09 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180907011518m3328a718ue4fdc0db4180094b@mail.gmail.com>

What you suggest is a plain out gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
and how long it will take to recover to his old level (if at all). Keeping
the roster spot just because we all have a soft spot for Powe cannot be
justified.

Good management decision.

AG

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs.  A
> couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the
> league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the
> original Antoine trade being the greatest).  Well, let me amend that: not
> extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel welcome at the
> veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank up there with his
> worst.  Sad day for Cs fans today.  After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute almost nothing,
> we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after he's shown he can
> actually play?  Bullshit.
>
>
>
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
>
>
>
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009
>
>
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they delve
> into the free agent market, have decided to part ways with Leon Powe.
>
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward
> following a conversation with President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge
> yesterday.
>
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a
> qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a result,
> Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
>
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after
> midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
>
> ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,? Powe said
> today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.?
>
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic
> was finished.
>
> ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of whether he got the sense
> the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him later in the summer. ?I
> knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to move on.
>
> ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his connection with the
> Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with another team.? Doc
> (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could
> to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying that they
> only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up a roster spot for
> someone else.?
>
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing Powe,
> though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
>
> ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once he
> gets healthy,? Ainge said.
>
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the qualifying
> offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another matter.
>
> ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because it?s a business,? said
> Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that we?re looking for sympathy,
> because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead
> of schedule.?
>
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham,
> arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback. According to
> Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be able to return to
> action by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for a return
> closer to February.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 22:45:19 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <639048.26834.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


In some sense you're right, in another you're wrong.  Well see how it turns out, but in the course of business there is a lot of guessing that takes place.  It's my guess that Powe comes back, given his character and past history of coming back from knee injuries.  Not every place on the roster needs to be a contributing member of the team for 82 games--there is room for projects.  I just think Powe's past work warrants his place on the project list, at least for one more season.  

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:18 PM
> What you suggest is a plain out
> gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
> and how long it will take to recover to his old level (if
> at all). Keeping
> the roster spot just because we all have a soft spot for
> Powe cannot be
> justified.
> 
> Good management decision.
> 
> AG
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> haunt the Cs.? A
> > couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's
> value around the
> > league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest
> blunders (the
> > original Antoine trade being the greatest).?
> Well, let me amend that: not
> > extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> feel welcome at the
> > veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank
> up there with his
> > worst.? Sad day for Cs fans today.? After
> carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> contribute almost nothing,
> > we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after
> he's shown he can
> > actually play?? Bullshit.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> >
> >
> >
> > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > By Mark Murphy
> > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> >
> >
> > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> space as they delve
> > into the free agent market, have decided to part ways
> with Leon Powe.
> >
> > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> 25-year-old forward
> > following a conversation with President of Basketball
> Operations Danny Ainge
> > yesterday.
> >
> > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> did not receive a
> > qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night
> deadline. As a result,
> > Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> >
> > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> power forward after
> > midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> >
> > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> come back,? Powe said
> > today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful
> place to play.?
> >
> > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> his time as a Celtic
> > was finished.
> >
> > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> whether he got the sense
> > the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him
> later in the summer. ?I
> > knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I
> just have to move on.
> >
> > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> his connection with the
> > Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with
> another team.? Doc
> > (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would
> do whatever he could
> > to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> yesterday saying that they
> > only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up
> a roster spot for
> > someone else.?
> >
> > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> in signing Powe,
> > though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
> >
> > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> at any time, once he
> > gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> >
> > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> when the qualifying
> > offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another
> matter.
> >
> > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> because it?s a business,? said
> > Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that
> we?re looking for sympathy,
> > because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are
> aware that he?s ahead
> > of schedule.?
> >
> > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> facility in Waltham,
> > arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his
> comeback. According to
> > Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be
> able to return to
> > action by December. Powe said that doctors have put
> his window for a return
> > closer to February.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 22:49:48 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <801482.51475.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


How many question marks did we waste spots on last season?  I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens, Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense of POB.  In terms of question marks, Powe is the best of the bunch.  And, like Cassell and POB, he could be easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab prove unsuccessful.

This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a non-question mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't it be easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or Giddens, for example) before Powe?  We'll see how it plays out, but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer for the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based on physical fitness.

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> question mark, when there are other players than can
> contribute immediately.
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt
> the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that actively
> gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there
> with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine
> trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend that:
> not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and
> might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad day for
> Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute
> almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even
> after he's shown he can actually play?? Bullshit.
> 
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> 
> 
> 
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> 
> 
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space
> as they delve into the free agent market, have decided to
> part ways with Leon Powe.
> 
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old
> forward following a conversation with President of
> Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> 
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did
> not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by the
> Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an
> unrestricted free agent.
> 
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power
> forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and
> Orlando.
> 
> ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come
> back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was just a
> wonderful place to play.?
> 
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his
> time as a Celtic was finished.
> 
> ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> whether he got the sense the Celtics might be interested in
> re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they
> wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to
> move on.
> 
> ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his
> connection with the Celtics was finished. They told me,
> ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that
> he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to
> make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying
> that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking
> up a roster spot for someone else.?
> 
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in
> signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee
> surgery.
> 
> ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any
> time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> 
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when
> the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment is
> another matter.
> 
> ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because
> it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want people
> thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is
> going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead
> of schedule.?
> 
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to
> continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has
> progressed so well that he might be able to return to action
> by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for
> a return closer to February.
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 22:52:21 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2010 roster
Message-ID: <782125.53660.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yep, his personal story makes it easy to root for his success.  I'm excited to see him in the summer league as well.

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 4:01 PM
> Thanks.? Great article; best I've
> seen.? Makes him the kind of player you want to see
> succeed; hope we get to see the Orlando league next week.?
> Gene
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: 2010 roster
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:42 PM
> 
> 
> Yep; it was the first game of the 2007-2008 season.? It
> was Rose's first game of his college career, and,
> coincidentally, it was also Hudson's first game at
> Tennessee-Martin, though he had matriculated via very
> different circumstances, playing 2 seasons of community
> college ball.? 3 games later he put up a
> quadruple-double.? The kid can obviously ball.? He might
> be small, but he loves the game and he's more than a
> scorer--he's a player.? It would have been nice had House
> opted-out, but I still expect Hudson to beat out Pruitt and
> make the team; assuming Pruitt's option is even picked up.?
> Hudson is the anti-Pruitt--he goes and takes what he
> wants.? Pruitt sadly is a wallflower.
> 
> Check out this great article (from last season): http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3252464
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Wed Jul  1 23:27:59 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:27:59 -0700
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
In-Reply-To: <542398.43211.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <542398.43211.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <22B70967-E82D-4626-A238-1F6C0E4B312E@verizon.net>

Did we not learn from the POB experiment?



On Jul 1, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>  
wrote:

>
> Yesssss, the apple of Danny Ainge's eye, the object of his affection
> these last four years, has been reunited with Danny at last in the
> Summer League. Robert Swift will play for the Celtics summer league  
> team.
>
> Then in August, Ainge and Swift will be in P Town together, taking  
> in the Marc Jacobs wedding...
>
> And it seems like a good bet -- as long as he can avoid anymore  
> tattoos or injuries -- Ainge's red-headed Goth stepson will make the  
> Celtics. They need a 3rd string center, Ainge loves Swft's potential  
> as a defender/rebounder/shot-blocker with size, and Davis/Powe/Moore  
> are heading elsewhere.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Wed Jul  1 23:34:34 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 19:34:34 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <639048.26834.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701193434.E1JC3.140397.imail@eastrmwml37>

Under normal circumstances you are right.  But when you are talking about a precious window of opportunity, the team can ill afford to keep a roster spot open for him.  If that were the case, Sean Livingston and Jay Willims would have had the same opportunity.  
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
In some sense you're right, in another you're wrong.  Well see how it turns out, but in the course of business there is a lot of guessing that takes place.  It's my guess that Powe comes back, given his character and past history of coming back from knee injuries.  Not every place on the roster needs to be a contributing member of the team for 82 games--there is room for projects.  I just think Powe's past work warrants his place on the project list, at least for one more season.  

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:18 PM
> What you suggest is a plain out
> gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
> and how long it will take to recover to his old level (if
> at all). Keeping
> the roster spot just because we all have a soft spot for
> Powe cannot be
> justified.
> 
> Good management decision.
> 
> AG
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> haunt the Cs.? A
> > couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's
> value around the
> > league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest
> blunders (the
> > original Antoine trade being the greatest).?
> Well, let me amend that: not
> > extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> feel welcome at the
> > veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank
> up there with his
> > worst.? Sad day for Cs fans today.? After
> carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> contribute almost nothing,
> > we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after
> he's shown he can
> > actually play?? Bullshit.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> >
> >
> >
> > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > By Mark Murphy
> > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> >
> >
> > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> space as they delve
> > into the free agent market, have decided to part ways
> with Leon Powe.
> >
> > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> 25-year-old forward
> > following a conversation with President of Basketball
> Operations Danny Ainge
> > yesterday.
> >
> > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> did not receive a
> > qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night
> deadline. As a result,
> > Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> >
> > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> power forward after
> > midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> >
> > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> come back,? Powe said
> > today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful
> place to play.?
> >
> > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> his time as a Celtic
> > was finished.
> >
> > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> whether he got the sense
> > the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him
> later in the summer. ?I
> > knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I
> just have to move on.
> >
> > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> his connection with the
> > Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with
> another team.? Doc
> > (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would
> do whatever he could
> > to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> yesterday saying that they
> > only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up
> a roster spot for
> > someone else.?
> >
> > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> in signing Powe,
> > though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
> >
> > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> at any time, once he
> > gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> >
> > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> when the qualifying
> > offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another
> matter.
> >
> > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> because it?s a business,? said
> > Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that
> we?re looking for sympathy,
> > because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are
> aware that he?s ahead
> > of schedule.?
> >
> > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> facility in Waltham,
> > arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his
> comeback. According to
> > Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be
> able to return to
> > action by December. Powe said that doctors have put
> his window for a return
> > closer to February.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 00:10:49 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:10:49 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <801482.51475.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090701201049.BZKOR.140808.imail@eastrmwml37>

Problem there is those 5 question marks were healthy and had the potential to contribute immediately .  Powe has no potential right now, so why waste the money.  Hey, I love Leon, just for his family values and what he did for his siblings.  That alone earns him all my respect.  But ou can't hold a spot for being a good guy.  The window is closing on the Big Three.  Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for being tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench players?  Everyone is a year older, and we aren't champs any longer.  It's time to bring in players who can contribute immediately.  And besides, Allen is in his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If there is room for another player, it's best to hold out until the trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player who's blown out his knee 3 times.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
How many question marks did we waste spots on last season?  I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens, Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense of POB.  In terms of question marks, Powe is the best of the bunch.  And, like Cassell and POB, he could be easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab prove unsuccessful.

This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a non-question mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't it be easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or Giddens, for example) before Powe?  We'll see how it plays out, but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer for the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based on physical fitness.

Ryan

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> question mark, when there are other players than can
> contribute immediately.
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt
> the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that actively
> gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up there
> with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original Antoine
> trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend that:
> not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and
> might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad day for
> Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> Giddens and Moore last season and watching them contribute
> almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even
> after he's shown he can actually play?? Bullshit.
> 
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> 
> 
> 
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> 
> 
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space
> as they delve into the free agent market, have decided to
> part ways with Leon Powe.
> 
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old
> forward following a conversation with President of
> Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> 
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did
> not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by the
> Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an
> unrestricted free agent.
> 
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power
> forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and
> Orlando.
> 
> ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come
> back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was just a
> wonderful place to play.?
> 
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his
> time as a Celtic was finished.
> 
> ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> whether he got the sense the Celtics might be interested in
> re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they
> wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have to
> move on.
> 
> ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether his
> connection with the Celtics was finished. They told me,
> ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told me that
> he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could to
> make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday saying
> that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking
> up a roster spot for someone else.?
> 
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in
> signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee
> surgery.
> 
> ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any
> time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> 
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when
> the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment is
> another matter.
> 
> ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised because
> it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want people
> thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because Leon is
> going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s ahead
> of schedule.?
> 
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to
> continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has
> progressed so well that he might be able to return to action
> by December. Powe said that doctors have put his window for
> a return closer to February.
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 00:12:11 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:12:11 -0400
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
In-Reply-To: <22B70967-E82D-4626-A238-1F6C0E4B312E@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090701201211.4RCTJ.140831.imail@eastrmwml37>

Yes we did.  That's why he's only coming to camp.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> Did we not learn from the POB experiment?
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yesssss, the apple of Danny Ainge's eye, the object of his affection
> > these last four years, has been reunited with Danny at last in the
> > Summer League. Robert Swift will play for the Celtics summer league  
> > team.
> >
> > Then in August, Ainge and Swift will be in P Town together, taking  
> > in the Marc Jacobs wedding...
> >
> > And it seems like a good bet -- as long as he can avoid anymore  
> > tattoos or injuries -- Ainge's red-headed Goth stepson will make the  
> > Celtics. They need a 3rd string center, Ainge loves Swft's potential  
> > as a defender/rebounder/shot-blocker with size, and Davis/Powe/Moore  
> > are heading elsewhere.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Thu Jul  2 00:27:01 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:27:01 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <20090701193434.E1JC3.140397.imail@eastrmwml37>
Message-ID: <8CBC8C2F3CECC33-844-E17@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com>

Also, it's probably a question of keeping a spot for two years, not 
one.  If he is cleared to play games in February, how long til we know 
how far back he can come?  It took Tony Allen the better part of a 
season to "recover."  Count me among those who say "Life sucks, but 
this is business."  I do hope that Leon recovers and lights up the Cs 
in the Acie Earl mode some night.


-----Original Message-----
From: martind42 at cox.net
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over



Under normal circumstances you are right.  But when you are talking 
about a
precious window of opportunity, the team can ill afford to keep a 
roster spot
open for him.  If that were the case, Sean Livingston and Jay Willims 
would have
had the same opportunity.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
In some sense you're right, in another you're wrong.  Well see how it 
turns out,
but in the course of business there is a lot of guessing that takes 
place.  It's
my guess that Powe comes back, given his character and past history of 
coming
back from knee injuries.  Not every place on the roster needs to be a
contributing member of the team for 82 games--there is room for 
projects.  I
just think Powe's past work warrants his place on the project list, at 
least for
one more season.

Ryan



--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:18 PM
> What you suggest is a plain out
> gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
> and how long it will take to recover to his old level (if
> at all). Keeping
> the roster spot just because we all have a soft spot for
> Powe cannot be
> justified.
>
> Good management decision.
>
> AG
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> haunt the Cs.? A
> > couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's
> value around the
> > league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest
> blunders (the
> > original Antoine trade being the greatest).?
> Well, let me amend that: not
> > extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> feel welcome at the
> > veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank
> up there with his
> > worst.? Sad day for Cs fans today.? After
> carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> contribute almost nothing,
> > we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after
> he's shown he can
> > actually play?? Bullshit.=0
D
> >
> >
> >
> > 
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> >
> >
> >
> > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > By Mark Murphy
> > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> >
> >
> > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> space as they delve
> > into the free agent market, have decided to part ways
> with Leon Powe.
> >
> > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> 25-year-old forward
> > following a conversation with President of Basketball
> Operations Danny Ainge
> > yesterday.
> >
> > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> did not receive a
> > qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night
> deadline. As a result,
> > Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> >
> > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> power forward after
> > midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> >
> > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> come back,? Powe said
> > today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful
> place to play.?
> >
> > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> his time as a Celtic
> > was finished.
> >
> > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> whether he got the sense
> > the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him
> later in the summer. ?I
>20> knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I
> just have to move on.
> >
> > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> his connection with the
> > Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with
> another team.? Doc
> > (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would
> do whatever he could
> > to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> yesterday saying that they
> > only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up
> a roster spot for
> > someone else.?
> >
> > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> in signing Powe,
> > though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
> >
> > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> at any time, once he
> > gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> >
> > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> when the qualifying
> > offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another
> matter.
> >
> > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> because it?s a business,? said
> > Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that
> we?re looking for sympathy,
> > because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are
> aware that he?s ahead
> > of schedule.?
> >
> > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> facility in Waltham,
> > arrived in Los=2
0Angeles yesterday to continue his
> comeback. According to
> > Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be
> able to return to
> > action by December. Powe said that doctors have put
> his window for a return
> > closer to February.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 00:37:38 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:37:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Swift
Message-ID: <316682.19031.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


He wouldn't be my first choice for a third-string center, but if you look at his career stats - 15 mpg, 4 ppg, 4 rpg, almost 1 bpg, 50% fg - well, I wouldn't be unhappy with numbers like that. At the very least, those numbers compare favorably to what O'Bryant and Moore did last year, though that may be damning with faint praise.

Anyway, I'm not going to get overly worked up yet about Swift taking one of our precious roster spots at the expense of a more proven veteran, because even Ainge must realize the kid's health is a huge question mark. Why not kick the tires during Summer League and see what happens? 


      


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 00:42:45 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: powe, swift
In-Reply-To: <mailman.83.1246493542.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.83.1246493542.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <143594.10148.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

if you don't have a soft spot in your heart for leon powe, you haven't been paying attention. but i think danny made a wise business decision by not giving him a qualifying offer. it kills me to say that, but if we can free up a roster spot and still have a chance to sign him when he does get healthy, everyone wins. now, if danny doesn't try to sign leon when he gets healthy, then shame on him, for that would be both a bad business and basketball decision. 

as for robert swift, is the dude really going to be on our summer league team? how funny. that should be interesting. last time i saw him, he was tatted up like the birdman, only scarier looking. can't say i've ever actually seen him play in the nba, so not sure what his game is about, but at one point danny was enamored, which is good enough for me. 


      

From pmaymin at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 00:43:30 2009
From: pmaymin at gmail.com (Phil Maymin)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:43:30 -0400
Subject: Swift
In-Reply-To: <316682.19031.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <316682.19031.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8c863cee0907011743h529c9ad8g346d7cda7e8a2549@mail.gmail.com>

I'm really glad we got Darius Washington on that team, he's going to be
really fun to watch!

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> He wouldn't be my first choice for a third-string center, but if you look
> at his career stats - 15 mpg, 4 ppg, 4 rpg, almost 1 bpg, 50% fg - well, I
> wouldn't be unhappy with numbers like that. At the very least, those numbers
> compare favorably to what O'Bryant and Moore did last year, though that may
> be damning with faint praise.
>
> Anyway, I'm not going to get overly worked up yet about Swift taking one of
> our precious roster spots at the expense of a more proven veteran, because
> even Ainge must realize the kid's health is a huge question mark. Why not
> kick the tires during Summer League and see what happens?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From pmaymin at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 00:44:50 2009
From: pmaymin at gmail.com (Phil Maymin)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:44:50 -0400
Subject: powe, swift
In-Reply-To: <143594.10148.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.83.1246493542.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
	<143594.10148.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8c863cee0907011744ie1bded5jbde3bb64e963618c@mail.gmail.com>

You know, all that Ainge was in love with Swift stuff is overblown. He
thought he was okay. I don't think he would have taken him over Big Al if
both were available -- unless someone has read an authoritative report
differently?

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:42 PM, steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:

> if you don't have a soft spot in your heart for leon powe, you haven't been
> paying attention. but i think danny made a wise business decision by not
> giving him a qualifying offer. it kills me to say that, but if we can free
> up a roster spot and still have a chance to sign him when he does get
> healthy, everyone wins. now, if danny doesn't try to sign leon when he gets
> healthy, then shame on him, for that would be both a bad business and
> basketball decision.
>
> as for robert swift, is the dude really going to be on our summer league
> team? how funny. that should be interesting. last time i saw him, he was
> tatted up like the birdman, only scarier looking. can't say i've ever
> actually seen him play in the nba, so not sure what his game is about, but
> at one point danny was enamored, which is good enough for me.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From capomycap at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 01:23:43 2009
From: capomycap at gmail.com (George Meyer)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:23:43 -0700
Subject: Ariza
In-Reply-To: <906308.57761.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <906308.57761.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <253b689a0907011823s70862663k4a5f6aa2991069ef@mail.gmail.com>

Uhhm, Ryan? The difference between us and the Knicks, as you might consult a
basketball almanac to discover, is that the Knicks have not been called upon
to defend a title in over thirty five years, and those terrible "high high
risk" players that plauged their cap during the Isiah years were the
accumulated detrius of a failed rebuilding effort. You see, unlike the
Knicks, we won a title. We had (and maybe HAVE) a chance to win more.
Generally this means that adding good, pricey players is likely to aid the
effort, not detract from it. Not to mention keeping a key sixth man who
(according to Doc Rivers) provided a significant character/locker room role,
something Danny has constantly undervalued.

As for my lack of intelligence and naive-ty, you can sling as much sh-t as
you want, it doesn't change the fact that Danny's propensity for making
low-ball offerings to free agents and making public pronouncements about how
"we are a team of three stars" has not helped the team improve its
reputation as a landing spot for potential FA's. Mind you, he claimed that
this was a major goal of his when he took over the team. And tell me Ryan,
what happens when your shiny new MLE player is Dahntey Jones and Fabricio
Oberto?

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> George, what exactly would you have him do?  You identified the problem,
> but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores market demands or
> practically any long term thinking beyond the here and now.  Yes, almost our
> entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging Hall-of-Famers.  As such, it seems
> wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling out the rest of the
> roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried rookies and bargain
> basement free agent signings represent the safest investments and allow the
> greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age, flexibility which is
> paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury, and high salaries.
>  But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we were the NY Knicks, who have
> consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign high risk high reward
> players almost every season without fail.  That hasn't exactly worked out,
> but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the willingness to win.  But
>  success takes more than will--it takes a little intelligence, something
> you can't seem to understand.
>
> Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer of 2008 free agent
> sweepstakes.  Danny identified that summer as being low in free agent talent
> while at the same time being a seller's market.  Why buy high in a low
> quality store?  Especially when you can wait a year and buy low in a high
> quality store.  That was the plan and if you wait a month you'll see a shiny
> new MLE-level player staring you in the face.  What will you say then?  That
> you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player (Posey) instead of
> underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed Wallace), even when the risk
> of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically nullified by Garnett's
> season-ending injury?
>
> Ryan
> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has thrown $56
> > million at our "big
> > three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps to support
> > them. The
> > difference between our third highest paid player (in 08/09)
> > Ray Allen, and
> > our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something like 13
> > million dollars.
> > With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried players
> > (ie: Rondo), that
> > money disparity reflects how little talent we have beyond
> > the big three, and
> > how ownership has failed to commit the necessary resources
> > to supporting
> > them in pursuit of another title (not mere "relevancy"). In
> > my opinion,
> > Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key component of a
> > championship team
> > go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a trainwreck
> > like Tony Allen. As
> > for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of Mikki
> > Moore, that speaks
> > for itself.
> >
> > (and I would note, the original composition of our
> > title-winning team was a
> > lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> > essentially, just happened
> > to be there. You don't always get lucky like that, and when
> > you do, you
> > should be smart enough to hold onto the player combinations
> > that have proven
> > to work, not arrogantly posturing about having three stars
> > who everyone else
> > should be happy to play with for minimum NBA wage)
> >
> > As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be your own. I
> > was simply
> > indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as currently
> > construed being any
> > kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market, via signing
> > or sign-n-trade,
> > regardless of what our beloved team owner carelessly opines
> > in the mass
> > media. However, since the usual "Danny's an idiot"/"how can
> > you doubt Danny
> > he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane Wade and
> > Chris Bosh"
> > arguement will demean us to the level of a typical
> > Celticsblog forum
> > discussion, I'll relent and give it to you - you're right,
> > anything can
> > happen.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >saying "show me the money" to Danny Ainge is like
> > trying to build a
> > > >functional rocketship with popsicle sticks. Which
> > is to say, you won't get
> > > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea of "money"
> > is a pro-rated
> > > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> > >
> > > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the Celtics
> > cheap? We currently
> > > have
> > > the fifth highest payroll in the league, only 5%
> > (chump change) behind the
> > > highest:
> > >
> > >
> http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> > >
> > > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's, but I'm
> > convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10 in order
> > to flail around in the
> > > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be offering up
> > Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home empty
> > handed in the most noble
> > > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears, naturally).
> > Meanwhile, we'll content
> > > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other marginal
> > NBA'er we can find with
> > > >bills to pay and the superficial skill-set
> > to address our many gaping
> > > holes
> > > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG when he
> > goes down again in April).
> > >
> > > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the same Danny
> > who successfully traded
> > > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting in a
> > championship? Wouldn't that
> > > be the best set of trades in recent NBA history?
> > >
> > > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's free-agent
> > signings. But saying
> > > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> > >
> > > -- Eric
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Thu Jul  2 01:27:17 2009
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:27:17 -0400
Subject: Detroit Pistons agree with both Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva - ESPN
Message-ID: <3C1507F548D1475482C17AF2A126EE11@D2F52Z11>

Hey all, just reported.

Hart 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 02:10:49 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 19:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ariza
Message-ID: <650525.42410.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

My take on this is yes we have shopped for our key bench players at the weekend flee markets and the lower parts of the draft since bringing together the Big 3, even before the big 3 but I dont think this is Danny trying to be cute as a GM rather he has marching orders from owners (despite their words) not to spend much over a certain amount along with being mindful to not tie the team in knots going forward with bad contracts compared to value for more than a year or two. Take the constraints into account you can see how much of a balancing act that Danny has to keep putting together and keeping a championship caliber team together while keeping an eye out for the future to reload quickly when the time comes.?
There are some who think this is so easy and that Danny is killing the C's being so cheap shopping for key role players in trades and free agency. I think he is playing the game pretty well with the cards he has to play with.
Go C's
??

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:

From: George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ariza
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:23 PM

Uhhm, Ryan? The difference between us and the Knicks, as you might consult a
basketball almanac to discover, is that the Knicks have not been called upon
to defend a title in over thirty five years, and those terrible "high high
risk" players that plauged their cap during the Isiah years were the
accumulated detrius of a failed rebuilding effort. You see, unlike the
Knicks, we won a title. We had (and maybe HAVE) a chance to win more.
Generally this means that adding good, pricey players is likely to aid the
effort, not detract from it. Not to mention keeping a key sixth man who
(according to Doc Rivers) provided a significant character/locker room role,
something Danny has constantly undervalued.

As for my lack of intelligence and naive-ty, you can sling as much sh-t as
you want, it doesn't change the fact that Danny's propensity for making
low-ball offerings to free agents and making public pronouncements about how
"we are a team of three stars" has not helped the team improve its
reputation as a landing spot for potential FA's. Mind you, he claimed that
this was a major goal of his when he took over the team. And tell me Ryan,
what happens when your shiny new MLE player is Dahntey Jones and Fabricio
Oberto?

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> George, what exactly would you have him do?? You identified the problem,
> but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores market demands or
> practically any long term thinking beyond the here and now.? Yes, almost our
> entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging Hall-of-Famers.? As such, it seems
> wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling out the rest of the
> roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried rookies and bargain
> basement free agent signings represent the safest investments and allow the
> greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age, flexibility which is
> paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury, and high salaries.
>? But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we were the NY Knicks, who have
> consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign high risk high reward
> players almost every season without fail.? That hasn't exactly worked out,
> but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the willingness to win.? But
>? success takes more than will--it takes a little intelligence, something
> you can't seem to understand.
>
> Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer of 2008 free agent
> sweepstakes.? Danny identified that summer as being low in free agent talent
> while at the same time being a seller's market.? Why buy high in a low
> quality store?? Especially when you can wait a year and buy low in a high
> quality store.? That was the plan and if you wait a month you'll see a shiny
> new MLE-level player staring you in the face.? What will you say then?? That
> you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player (Posey) instead of
> underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed Wallace), even when the risk
> of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically nullified by Garnett's
> season-ending injury?
>
> Ryan
> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has thrown $56
> > million at our "big
> > three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps to support
> > them. The
> > difference between our third highest paid player (in 08/09)
> > Ray Allen, and
> > our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something like 13
> > million dollars.
> > With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried players
> > (ie: Rondo), that
> > money disparity reflects how little talent we have beyond
> > the big three, and
> > how ownership has failed to commit the necessary resources
> > to supporting
> > them in pursuit of another title (not mere "relevancy"). In
> > my opinion,
> > Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key component of a
> > championship team
> > go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a trainwreck
> > like Tony Allen. As
> > for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of Mikki
> > Moore, that speaks
> > for itself.
> >
> > (and I would note, the original composition of our
> > title-winning team was a
> > lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> > essentially, just happened
> > to be there. You don't always get lucky like that, and when
> > you do, you
> > should be smart enough to hold onto the player combinations
> > that have proven
> > to work, not arrogantly posturing about having three stars
> > who everyone else
> > should be happy to play with for minimum NBA wage)
> >
> > As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be your own. I
> > was simply
> > indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as currently
> > construed being any
> > kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market, via signing
> > or sign-n-trade,
> > regardless of what our beloved team owner carelessly opines
> > in the mass
> > media. However, since the usual "Danny's an idiot"/"how can
> > you doubt Danny
> > he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane Wade and
> > Chris Bosh"
> > arguement will demean us to the level of a typical
> > Celticsblog forum
> > discussion, I'll relent and give it to you - you're right,
> > anything can
> > happen.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >saying "show me the money" to Danny Ainge is like
> > trying to build a
> > > >functional rocketship with popsicle sticks. Which
> > is to say, you won't get
> > > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea of "money"
> > is a pro-rated
> > > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> > >
> > > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the Celtics
> > cheap? We currently
> > > have
> > > the fifth highest payroll in the league, only 5%
> > (chump change) behind the
> > > highest:
> > >
> > >
> http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> > >
> > > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's, but I'm
> > convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10 in order
> > to flail around in the
> > > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be offering up
> > Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home empty
> > handed in the most noble
> > > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears, naturally).
> > Meanwhile, we'll content
> > > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other marginal
> > NBA'er we can find with
> > > >bills to pay and the superficial skill-set
> > to address our many gaping
> > > holes
> > > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG when he
> > goes down again in April).
> > >
> > > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the same Danny
> > who successfully traded
> > > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting in a
> > championship? Wouldn't that
> > > be the best set of trades in recent NBA history?
> > >
> > > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's free-agent
> > signings. But saying
> > > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> > >
> > > -- Eric
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Thu Jul  2 02:26:59 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (TroySusieBrady)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:26:59 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <00b601c9fa95$011bccc0$03536640$@net>
References: <39701.16366.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<00b601c9fa95$011bccc0$03536640$@net>
Message-ID: <005f01c9fabc$93b68da0$6601a8c0@troyscomputer>

I love Leon and everything about him, but I have to agree.  There is no
guarantee when or if he will come back.  With those type of injuries, they
almost always take a year or longer to come back in best case.  Barring some
trades to free up roster spots, we just can't tie up a spot right now.  Troy


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of keltsfan
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:44 PM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over

How exactly can he play?  Isn't he rehabbing from an ACL tear and subsequent
surgery?  Unfortunately, this kid has a major history of knee trouble.  It's
the second ACL reconstruction on that knee I believe.  The roster slot is an
important consideration and a million bucks could be better spent elsewhere
given the injury history and the need to fill that roster slot with a player
that can actually play.  I'm all for charity but isn't the goal here to win
another championship before Garnett hangs it up?

Ravi


> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
> Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:32 PM
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
>
>
> Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to haunt the Cs.  A
> couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's value around the
> league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the
> original Antoine trade being the greatest).  Well, let me amend that:
> not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him feel
> welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank
> up there with his worst.  Sad day for Cs fans today.  After carrying
> Cassell, POB, Pruitt, Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
contribute almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even
after he's shown he can actually play?  Bullshit.
>
>
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articlei
> d=1182483&srvc=sp
> orts&position=0
>
>
>
> Powe feels Celtics career over
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, July 1, 2009
>
>
> The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster space as they
> delve into the free agent market, have decided to part ways with Leon
Powe.
>
> That, at least, is the impression left with the 25-year-old forward
> following a conversation with President of Basketball Operations Danny
Ainge yesterday.
>
> Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery, did not receive a
> qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night deadline. As a
> result, Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
>
> Five teams reportedly called with interest in the power forward after
> midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
>
>  Of course I was disappointed, because I want to come back,  Powe said
> today.  I love the fans. It was just a wonderful place to play.
>
> Powe walked away from his conversation believing that his time as a Celtic
was finished.
>
>  I wasn t feeling a vibe like that,  he said of whether he got the
> sense the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him later in the
> summer.  I knew they wouldn t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have
to move on.
>
>  That s what they told me,  Powe said of whether his connection with
> the Celtics was finished. They told me,  Good luck with another team.
> Doc (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would do whatever
> he could to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday
> saying that they only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up
> a roster spot for someone else.
>
> Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested in signing
> Powe, though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
>
>  We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back at any time, once
> he gets healthy,  Ainge said.
>
> Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised when the
> qualifying offer didn t come. But disappointment is another matter.
>
>  I was disappointed, but I m never surprised because it s a business,
> said Goodwin.  I don t want people thinking that we re looking for
> sympathy, because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are aware
> that he s ahead of schedule.
>
> Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice facility in
> Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his comeback.
> According to Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be
> able to return to action by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
window for a return closer to February.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2211 - Release Date: 07/01/09
05:53:00



From callmebogie at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 03:49:21 2009
From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sweet justice
Message-ID: <40324.89486.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Just saw the news that Chris Wallace acquired Zach Randolph.  I'm not sure whether this is sufficient payback for putting Vin Baker on the Cs and putting Pau Gasol on the Lakers - but it's a start.


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jul  2 04:26:35 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ariza
In-Reply-To: <650525.42410.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <650525.42410.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <507779.32456.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When you have 3 making a chunk of change,?that doesn't give you much for the others.

Maybe we can get a couple of Wallace , Iverson & Marbury, Artest,or Marion to sign smaller contracts for a shot at the title





________________________________
From: R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Ariza

My take on this is yes we have shopped for our key bench players at the weekend flee markets and the lower parts of the draft since bringing together the Big 3, even before the big 3 but I dont think this is Danny trying to be cute as a GM rather he has marching orders from owners (despite their words) not to spend much over a certain amount along with being mindful to not tie the team in knots going forward with bad contracts compared to value for more than a year or two. Take the constraints into account you can see how much of a balancing act that Danny has to keep putting together and keeping a championship caliber team together while keeping an eye out for the future to reload quickly when the time comes.?
There are some who think this is so easy and that Danny is killing the C's being so cheap shopping for key role players in trades and free agency. I think he is playing the game pretty well with the cards he has to play with.
Go C's
??

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:

From: George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ariza
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 9:23 PM

Uhhm, Ryan? The difference between us and the Knicks, as you might consult a
basketball almanac to discover, is that the Knicks have not been called upon
to defend a title in over thirty five years, and those terrible "high high
risk" players that plauged their cap during the Isiah years were the
accumulated detrius of a failed rebuilding effort. You see, unlike the
Knicks, we won a title. We had (and maybe HAVE) a chance to win more.
Generally this means that adding good, pricey players is likely to aid the
effort, not detract from it. Not to mention keeping a key sixth man who
(according to Doc Rivers) provided a significant character/locker room role,
something Danny has constantly undervalued.

As for my lack of intelligence and naive-ty, you can sling as much sh-t as
you want, it doesn't change the fact that Danny's propensity for making
low-ball offerings to free agents and making public pronouncements about how
"we are a team of three stars" has not helped the team improve its
reputation as a landing spot for potential FA's. Mind you, he claimed that
this was a major goal of his when he took over the team. And tell me Ryan,
what happens when your shiny new MLE player is Dahntey Jones and Fabricio
Oberto?

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> George, what exactly would you have him do?? You identified the problem,
> but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores market demands or
> practically any long term thinking beyond the here and now.? Yes, almost our
> entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging Hall-of-Famers.? As such, it seems
> wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling out the rest of the
> roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried rookies and bargain
> basement free agent signings represent the safest investments and allow the
> greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age, flexibility which is
> paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury, and high salaries.
>? But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we were the NY Knicks, who have
> consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign high risk high reward
> players almost every season without fail.? That hasn't exactly worked out,
> but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the willingness to win.? But
>? success takes more than will--it takes a little intelligence, something
> you can't seem to understand.
>
> Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer of 2008 free agent
> sweepstakes.? Danny identified that summer as being low in free agent talent
> while at the same time being a seller's market.? Why buy high in a low
> quality store?? Especially when you can wait a year and buy low in a high
> quality store.? That was the plan and if you wait a month you'll see a shiny
> new MLE-level player staring you in the face.? What will you say then?? That
> you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player (Posey) instead of
> underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed Wallace), even when the risk
> of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically nullified by Garnett's
> season-ending injury?
>
> Ryan
> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has thrown $56
> > million at our "big
> > three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps to support
> > them. The
> > difference between our third highest paid player (in 08/09)
> > Ray Allen, and
> > our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something like 13
> > million dollars.
> > With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried players
> > (ie: Rondo), that
> > money disparity reflects how little talent we have beyond
> > the big three, and
> > how ownership has failed to commit the necessary resources
> > to supporting
> > them in pursuit of another title (not mere "relevancy"). In
> > my opinion,
> > Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key component of a
> > championship team
> > go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a trainwreck
> > like Tony Allen. As
> > for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of Mikki
> > Moore, that speaks
> > for itself.
> >
> > (and I would note, the original composition of our
> > title-winning team was a
> > lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> > essentially, just happened
> > to be there. You don't always get lucky like that, and when
> > you do, you
> > should be smart enough to hold onto the player combinations
> > that have proven
> > to work, not arrogantly posturing about having three stars
> > who everyone else
> > should be happy to play with for minimum NBA wage)
> >
> > As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be your own. I
> > was simply
> > indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as currently
> > construed being any
> > kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market, via signing
> > or sign-n-trade,
> > regardless of what our beloved team owner carelessly opines
> > in the mass
> > media. However, since the usual "Danny's an idiot"/"how can
> > you doubt Danny
> > he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane Wade and
> > Chris Bosh"
> > arguement will demean us to the level of a typical
> > Celticsblog forum
> > discussion, I'll relent and give it to you - you're right,
> > anything can
> > happen.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >saying "show me the money" to Danny Ainge is like
> > trying to build a
> > > >functional rocketship with popsicle sticks. Which
> > is to say, you won't get
> > > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea of "money"
> > is a pro-rated
> > > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> > >
> > > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the Celtics
> > cheap? We currently
> > > have
> > > the fifth highest payroll in the league, only 5%
> > (chump change) behind the
> > > highest:
> > >
> > >
> http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> > >
> > > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's, but I'm
> > convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10 in order
> > to flail around in the
> > > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be offering up
> > Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home empty
> > handed in the most noble
> > > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears, naturally).
> > Meanwhile, we'll content
> > > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other marginal
> > NBA'er we can find with
> > > >bills to pay and the superficial skill-set
> > to address our many gaping
> > > holes
> > > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG when he
> > goes down again in April).
> > >
> > > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the same Danny
> > who successfully traded
> > > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting in a
> > championship? Wouldn't that
> > > be the best set of trades in recent NBA history?
> > >
> > > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's free-agent
> > signings. But saying
> > > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> > >
> > > -- Eric
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jul  2 10:37:27 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:37:27 -0400
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
In-Reply-To: <542398.43211.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <542398.43211.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200907021037.n62AbVOt023517@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Yep, obsession ain't just a perfume. Danny's bromance with this dude continues despite not being able to play a lick on a bad Seattle/Okie team. I guarantee he'll be on the team.

NOT what we need. Not at all.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:42 PM
To: Celtics Stuff; Celtics Are Idiots List
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last


Yesssss, the apple of Danny Ainge's eye, the object of his affection 
these last four years, has been reunited with Danny at last in the 
Summer League. Robert Swift will play for the Celtics summer league team. 

Then in August, Ainge and Swift will be in P Town together, taking in the Marc Jacobs wedding...

And it seems like a good bet -- as long as he can avoid anymore tattoos or injuries -- Ainge's red-headed Goth stepson will make the Celtics. They need a 3rd string center, Ainge loves Swft's potential as a defender/rebounder/shot-blocker with size, and Davis/Powe/Moore are heading elsewhere.

Ray
  



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jul  2 10:54:08 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:54:08 -0400
Subject: Powe
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W19F997811D198AEB86B4EDA52E0@phx.gbl>
References: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<BAY111-W19F997811D198AEB86B4EDA52E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200907021100.n62B0m8Z003319@artemis.afrc.af.mil>

The decision was cold, heartless, and the right management decision.  If Powe can rehab and comes back after next season he would get a much longer look than any of the other potentials based on his past performance. If he gets a better deal from another team - wish him well.


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 11:10:13 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:10:13 +0200
Subject: Powe
In-Reply-To: <200907021100.n62B0m8Z003319@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
References: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<BAY111-W19F997811D198AEB86B4EDA52E0@phx.gbl>
	<200907021100.n62B0m8Z003319@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <56a297000907020410tf7a8a54xd6822f42d805414b@mail.gmail.com>

I think the NBA should have a special minimum salary contract and
roster spot exception for situations like Leon's. The more you treat
players like fungible assets the more disloyal and selfish they get,
it's human nature.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:54 PM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> The decision was cold, heartless, and the right management decision. ?If Powe can rehab and comes back after next season he would get a much longer look than any of the other potentials based on his past performance. If he gets a better deal from another team - wish him well.
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Thu Jul  2 11:30:28 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:30:28 -0400
Subject: Powe
In-Reply-To: <56a297000907020410tf7a8a54xd6822f42d805414b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <417216.79652.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<BAY111-W19F997811D198AEB86B4EDA52E0@phx.gbl>
	<200907021100.n62B0m8Z003319@artemis.afrc.af.mil>
	<56a297000907020410tf7a8a54xd6822f42d805414b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200907021130.n62BUTns005344@apollo.afrc.af.mil>

I don't disagree. Allow him to do scout work or aid with the trainers or help run the Celtics "NBA Cares" program or whatever during that time period of rehab. If the rehab doesn't go he may choose to continue his other work within the organization or can self-terminate to follow his own path.  

The NBA gets to better its image and the player has a roster spot exemption with the same rules if he accelerates his rehab and comes back early wherein they'd have to release someone else or IR or buy out a contract. The owners probably wouldn't like it as it's extra money, but if you add the caveat of an actual other job in the organization maybe it would help make it more palatable.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:10 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: Powe

I think the NBA should have a special minimum salary contract and
roster spot exception for situations like Leon's. The more you treat
players like fungible assets the more disloyal and selfish they get,
it's human nature.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:54 PM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> The decision was cold, heartless, and the right management decision. ?If Powe can rehab and comes back after next season he would get a much longer look than any of the other potentials based on his past performance. If he gets a better deal from another team - wish him well.
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 12:28:20 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 05:28:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sweet justice
Message-ID: <468118.75121.qm@web63103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

LOL!? and does that mean they are not planning on making an offer to Glen Davis?

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com>
Subject: Sweet justice
To: "Celtics List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:49 PM


Just saw the news that Chris Wallace acquired Zach Randolph.? I'm not sure whether this is sufficient payback for putting Vin Baker on the Cs and putting Pau Gasol on the Lakers - but it's a start.


? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 14:02:21 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:02:21 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <639048.26834.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <639048.26834.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180907020702x121b309aw3a9f3331efbcacba@mail.gmail.com>

He will be available by the time he will finish rehabbing: there is no team
in the NBA picking him up right now. I don't see why the C's should hold the
roster spot half of the season for nothing in return.

I like the kid much better than Baby, but this is #3 major on his knees.

AG

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> In some sense you're right, in another you're wrong.  Well see how it turns
> out, but in the course of business there is a lot of guessing that takes
> place.  It's my guess that Powe comes back, given his character and past
> history of coming back from knee injuries.  Not every place on the roster
> needs to be a contributing member of the team for 82 games--there is room
> for projects.  I just think Powe's past work warrants his place on the
> project list, at least for one more season.
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:18 PM
> > What you suggest is a plain out
> > gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
> > and how long it will take to recover to his old level (if
> > at all). Keeping
> > the roster spot just because we all have a soft spot for
> > Powe cannot be
> > justified.
> >
> > Good management decision.
> >
> > AG
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> > haunt the Cs.  A
> > > couple days ago, I said that actively gauging Rondo's
> > value around the
> > > league was right up there with one of Ainge's greatest
> > blunders (the
> > > original Antoine trade being the greatest).
> > Well, let me amend that: not
> > > extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making him
> > feel welcome at the
> > > veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might just rank
> > up there with his
> > > worst.  Sad day for Cs fans today.  After
> > carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> > contribute almost nothing,
> > > we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even after
> > he's shown he can
> > > actually play?  Bullshit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > By Mark Murphy
> > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> > >
> > >
> > > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> > space as they delve
> > > into the free agent market, have decided to part ways
> > with Leon Powe.
> > >
> > > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> > 25-year-old forward
> > > following a conversation with President of Basketball
> > Operations Danny Ainge
> > > yesterday.
> > >
> > > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> > did not receive a
> > > qualifying offer from the Celtics by the Monday night
> > deadline. As a result,
> > > Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> > >
> > > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> > power forward after
> > > midnight, including Miami, Memphis and Orlando.
> > >
> > > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> > come back,? Powe said
> > > today. ?I love the fans. It was just a wonderful
> > place to play.?
> > >
> > > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> > his time as a Celtic
> > > was finished.
> > >
> > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> > whether he got the sense
> > > the Celtics might be interested in re-signing him
> > later in the summer. ?I
> > > knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I
> > just have to move on.
> > >
> > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> > his connection with the
> > > Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good luck with
> > another team.? Doc
> > > (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there, and he would
> > do whatever he could
> > > to make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> > yesterday saying that they
> > > only have a two-year window, and I would be taking up
> > a roster spot for
> > > someone else.?
> > >
> > > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> > in signing Powe,
> > > though only after he recovers from knee surgery.
> > >
> > > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> > at any time, once he
> > > gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > >
> > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> > when the qualifying
> > > offer didn?t come. But disappointment is another
> > matter.
> > >
> > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> > because it?s a business,? said
> > > Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking that
> > we?re looking for sympathy,
> > > because Leon is going to play again. The Celtics are
> > aware that he?s ahead
> > > of schedule.?
> > >
> > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> > facility in Waltham,
> > > arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue his
> > comeback. According to
> > > Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he might be
> > able to return to
> > > action by December. Powe said that doctors have put
> > his window for a return
> > > closer to February.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 14:11:16 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:11:16 -0400
Subject: Sweet justice
In-Reply-To: <40324.89486.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090702101116.1MLMS.145048.imail@eastrmwml34>

Wallace deserves all the misery that can be mustered.  I wish him nothing but the worst.
---- Michael Gooen <callmebogie at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Just saw the news that Chris Wallace acquired Zach Randolph.  I'm not sure whether this is sufficient payback for putting Vin Baker on the Cs and putting Pau Gasol on the Lakers - but it's a start.
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 14:13:38 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:13:38 -0400
Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
In-Reply-To: <200907021037.n62AbVOt023517@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <20090702101338.VABV3.145092.imail@eastrmwml34>

No harm, no foul if he's invited to camp.  Just like Mike Sweetney.  If either can play, they'll have a shot and that is what I'd like to see.  If not, Danny will let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.
---- Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote: 
> Yep, obsession ain't just a perfume. Danny's bromance with this dude continues despite not being able to play a lick on a bad Seattle/Okie team. I guarantee he'll be on the team.
> 
> NOT what we need. Not at all.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:42 PM
> To: Celtics Stuff; Celtics Are Idiots List
> Subject: Forever My Love: Robert Swift & Ainge Together At Last
> 
> 
> Yesssss, the apple of Danny Ainge's eye, the object of his affection 
> these last four years, has been reunited with Danny at last in the 
> Summer League. Robert Swift will play for the Celtics summer league team. 
> 
> Then in August, Ainge and Swift will be in P Town together, taking in the Marc Jacobs wedding...
> 
> And it seems like a good bet -- as long as he can avoid anymore tattoos or injuries -- Ainge's red-headed Goth stepson will make the Celtics. They need a 3rd string center, Ainge loves Swft's potential as a defender/rebounder/shot-blocker with size, and Davis/Powe/Moore are heading elsewhere.
> 
> Ray
>   
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 14:18:03 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:18:03 -0400
Subject: Powe
In-Reply-To: <56a297000907020410tf7a8a54xd6822f42d805414b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090702101803.V507R.145166.imail@eastrmwml34>

Leon isn't the only player who suffered a career threatening injury.  He's our player and that's why this thread continues.  It would be much more disheartening if he were just a blue collar worker who lost his $35,000/yr job because of a disability.  When you've had the opportinity to make 25 times that in several seasons, it's not quite the same.  If he makes it back, and I think his work ethic might make him an unusual exception, he'll get another chance.  But if this is his third time, he may need to consider another career.
---- Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I think the NBA should have a special minimum salary contract and
> roster spot exception for situations like Leon's. The more you treat
> players like fungible assets the more disloyal and selfish they get,
> it's human nature.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:54 PM, <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> > The decision was cold, heartless, and the right management decision. ?If Powe can rehab and comes back after next season he would get a much longer look than any of the other potentials based on his past performance. If he gets a better deal from another team - wish him well.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 14:46:38 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: summer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.89.1246544292.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.89.1246544292.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <147906.77432.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

looking forward to the summer league to see what shakes out. one or two of the giddens/walker/pruitt/hudson will have to break out for it to be a successful venture. i'd love to see pruitt become a solid #2 pg coming out. also would like to see giddens or walker take a big step up so they can contribute this season. not sure what we have in hudson, but he sounds hungry, which is always a good sign. 

on the front line, i'm more confident than ever that we'll be able to resign baby--surprisingly, no one else is that interested. good for us. he'll be a very, very solid backup this year. 

getting wallace would be a real coup. an anthony parker would help, too.  


      

From eggcentric at aol.com  Thu Jul  2 15:01:18 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:01:18 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
Message-ID: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>

When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had?
bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury?
all on it at the same time,? I neglected to mention that?
our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,?
the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
IQ Giddens, etc., etc.? Gone is good guy Powe
(Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.

Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess?
(whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or?
Grant Hill will even sign with us.? Am hearing now that they?
may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.???And frankly,
it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.

As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do?
his recruiting,? I have??little confidence in our FAs if they 
and Garnett?are soul brothers.

Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up?
elsewhere?? Holy cow.? Why not just fill out the roster with?
Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.?

Nurse Ratched

From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 15:35:14 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:35:14 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090702113514.2W78E.107831.imail@eastrmwml31>

Whatever it takes to win is all that counts.  These are basketball players, not choir boys.
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had?
> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury?
> all on it at the same time,? I neglected to mention that?
> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,?
> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.? Gone is good guy Powe
> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
> 
> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess?
> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or?
> Grant Hill will even sign with us.? Am hearing now that they?
> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.???And frankly,
> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
> 
> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do?
> his recruiting,? I have??little confidence in our FAs if they 
> and Garnett?are soul brothers.
> 
> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up?
> elsewhere?? Holy cow.? Why not just fill out the roster with?
> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.?
> 
> Nurse Ratched
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Thu Jul  2 15:38:00 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:38:00 -0700
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
References: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
Message-ID: <398F4F0E-210B-4737-80A5-5E4CBEED2B47@verizon.net>

Lakers are after artest. He would have been better than sheed, but KG  
was an inside track for him

Anthony Parker to replace Tony Allen



Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:01 AM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had
> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury
> all on it at the same time,  I neglected to mention that
> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,
> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.  Gone is good guy Powe
> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
>
> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess
> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or
> Grant Hill will even sign with us.  Am hearing now that they
> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.   And frankly,
> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
>
> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do
> his recruiting,  I have  little confidence in our FAs if they
> and Garnett are soul brothers.
>
> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up
> elsewhere?  Holy cow.  Why not just fill out the roster with
> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
>
> Nurse Ratched
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 16:01:14 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:01:14 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090702120114.67LKJ.108266.imail@eastrmwml31>

Let's look back to the 86 Celtics, who I thought was the toughest team in NBA history (and will always be my favorite team).  We had Larry Bird, who had the most miserable disposition on the team; We had McHale who loved to booze it up after the game.  Danny, was a punky snake then, as he is now (according to some sources); we had the weed smoking Chief and the ever troublesome Dennis Johnson, who wasn't given due consideration for the Hall of fame.  Let's also not forget the way out, hippie, Greatful Dead loving Bill Walton. How'd that work out for you?
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had?
> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury?
> all on it at the same time,? I neglected to mention that?
> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,?
> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.? Gone is good guy Powe
> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
> 
> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess?
> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or?
> Grant Hill will even sign with us.? Am hearing now that they?
> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.???And frankly,
> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
> 
> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do?
> his recruiting,? I have??little confidence in our FAs if they 
> and Garnett?are soul brothers.
> 
> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up?
> elsewhere?? Holy cow.? Why not just fill out the roster with?
> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.?
> 
> Nurse Ratched
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 16:05:51 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:05:51 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <398F4F0E-210B-4737-80A5-5E4CBEED2B47@verizon.net>
References: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
	<398F4F0E-210B-4737-80A5-5E4CBEED2B47@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180907020905q6d5b2c8fkba2ad1cc78ae4ece@mail.gmail.com>

We need a quality backup big, preferably a good scoring option at the 4/5.

LAL lost Ariza, have no starting 3.

AG

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:38 AM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:

> Lakers are after artest. He would have been better than sheed, but KG was
> an inside track for him
>
> Anthony Parker to replace Tony Allen
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:01 AM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
>
> When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had
>> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury
>> all on it at the same time,  I neglected to mention that
>> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,
>> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
>> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.  Gone is good guy Powe
>> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
>> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
>>
>> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess
>> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or
>> Grant Hill will even sign with us.  Am hearing now that they
>> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.   And frankly,
>> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
>>
>> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do
>> his recruiting,  I have  little confidence in our FAs if they
>> and Garnett are soul brothers.
>>
>> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up
>> elsewhere?  Holy cow.  Why not just fill out the roster with
>> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
>>
>> Nurse Ratched
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 16:21:35 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:21:35 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <3f0c87180907020905q6d5b2c8fkba2ad1cc78ae4ece@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090702122135.0XAHW.108584.imail@eastrmwml31>

I missed that.  Where did Ariza go?
---- Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote: 
> We need a quality backup big, preferably a good scoring option at the 4/5.
> 
> LAL lost Ariza, have no starting 3.
> 
> AG
> 
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:38 AM, John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> > Lakers are after artest. He would have been better than sheed, but KG was
> > an inside track for him
> >
> > Anthony Parker to replace Tony Allen
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:01 AM, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > When I questioned whether we wanted a team that had
> >> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury
> >> all on it at the same time,  I neglected to mention that
> >> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,
> >> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
> >> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.  Gone is good guy Powe
> >> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen, Scal,
> >> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
> >>
> >> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess
> >> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or
> >> Grant Hill will even sign with us.  Am hearing now that they
> >> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.   And frankly,
> >> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
> >>
> >> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do
> >> his recruiting,  I have  little confidence in our FAs if they
> >> and Garnett are soul brothers.
> >>
> >> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends up
> >> elsewhere?  Holy cow.  Why not just fill out the roster with
> >> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
> >>
> >> Nurse Ratched
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >> celtics at igtc.com
> >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 16:38:19 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:38:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Erden?
Message-ID: <383971.95292.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Does anyone on the list have info on last years 2nd round pick and stash Euro?
Will he be coming to camp/SL this year? Is he still locked up by contract to his overseas team? Will he ever even make it across the pond for a true tryout. Considering we have lost Powe, wouldnt bringing him in for a look-see make sense?
Go C's?


      

From jeffclark at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 16:41:02 2009
From: jeffclark at gmail.com (jeffclark at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:41:02 -0400
Subject: Erden?
In-Reply-To: <383971.95292.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <383971.95292.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <84e131670907020941t5ca33729s96e2d59d25b4bdbf@mail.gmail.com>

he's under contract for another year overseas and will not be attending
summer league or camp

everyone seems fine with that since he needs at least another year in the
oven anyway

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:38 PM, R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does anyone on the list have info on last years 2nd round pick and stash
> Euro?
> Will he be coming to camp/SL this year? Is he still locked up by contract
> to his overseas team? Will he ever even make it across the pond for a true
> tryout. Considering we have lost Powe, wouldnt bringing him in for a
> look-see make sense?
> Go C's
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com

From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 16:50:50 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:50:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Erden?
Message-ID: <520559.74213.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the info, I live on Guam now-a-days and it is hard to get some of the non main lead stories of C's players/doings
Go C's

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com> wrote:

From: jeffclark at gmail.com <jeffclark at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Erden?
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:41 PM

he's under contract for another year overseas and will not be attending
summer league or camp

everyone seems fine with that since he needs at least another year in the
oven anyway

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:38 PM, R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does anyone on the list have info on last years 2nd round pick and stash
> Euro?
> Will he be coming to camp/SL this year? Is he still locked up by contract
> to his overseas team? Will he ever even make it across the pond for a true
> tryout. Considering we have lost Powe, wouldnt bringing him in for a
> look-see make sense?
> Go C's
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>



-- 
Jeff
CelticsBlog.com
doughnutholes.wordpress.com
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From martind42 at cox.net  Thu Jul  2 17:26:47 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:26:47 -0400
Subject: Erden?
In-Reply-To: <383971.95292.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090702132647.65IUT.109527.imail@eastrmwml31>

I doubt it.  He will end up joining the ranks of Ben Pepper.
---- R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Does anyone on the list have info on last years 2nd round pick and stash Euro?
> Will he be coming to camp/SL this year? Is he still locked up by contract to his overseas team? Will he ever even make it across the pond for a true tryout. Considering we have lost Powe, wouldnt bringing him in for a look-see make sense?
> Go C's?
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 18:04:58 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ripping Rasheed: It's Bill Simmons
Message-ID: <280012.40407.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


http://twitter.com/sportsguy33

Least favorite FA's (too expensive or overrated): Rasheed (clear No. 1); Turkoglu; Big Baby; Miller; Kidd; Hill; M. Williams; N. Robinson.

Ideal new homes: CharlieV (Cle); Gortat (Hou); Millsap (Zombies); Childress (Bos); Iverson (Cha); Hedo (Por); Birdman (Dal); Sheed (pasture)



      


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 18:21:45 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Erden
Message-ID: <373067.38512.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Just took a gander at his Euroleague stats; he's not exactly setting things on fire.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=JYB

 


      


From Eric at ericalbert.net  Thu Jul  2 18:43:01 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:43:01 -0400
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
In-Reply-To: <398F4F0E-210B-4737-80A5-5E4CBEED2B47@verizon.net>
References: <EAA48A27.47CD.489E.93C1.B9FC0BAE5719@aol.com>
	<398F4F0E-210B-4737-80A5-5E4CBEED2B47@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090702184323.5B8E8E1A441@ignite.igtc.com>


>Egg wrote (I think):
> 
>bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury
>all on it at the same time,  I neglected to mention that
>our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,
>the churlish Perk,

But Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury are bonkers in *different* ways!

Garnett's craziness seems mostly to center on his competitive drive and, in particular, on playing at his absolute best, which he sees as making his teammates their absolute best.

In every account I've read, and in every game I've watched, Garnett is focused only on team performance. I see it in how he defends, sets picks, passes, chews out teammates when they're not doing their job, and cheers on teammates when he's on the bench.

Has anyone called Garnett a selfish player? A team cancer? A coach killer? A technical magnet? 'Cause that's what many people have called Rasheed and Marbury.

Saying all three of these guys are "madmen" tars Garnett's good craziness with the bad craziness of Rasheed and Marbury.

What's with "surly Rondo"? As Kim Malo has pointed out, this accusation seems to come from misreading and/or misquoting an article that talked about how Rondo *used* to be. The same article praised him for making major attitudinal improvements since then and said he was now a good teammate who was well-liked.

And "churlish Perk"? I've never seen it. It's true he has the best game face in the NBA, and he complains too much about calls. But he, like Garnett (and because he follows Garnett's lead) is a team player who has everyone's back. And, so far as I can tell, Perk's game face is just that -- once he's off the court he's mild-mannered, good-humored, and articulate.

Celtics fans see the players in game after game; listen to them talk in interviews; hear teammates, coaches, and owners talk about them; and listen to them being analyzed by an endless number of writers and commentators.

It's obviously not perfect knowledge, but it's a lot harder for players to hide their personality flaws than it used to be.
 
-- Eric


From drivenkick43 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 19:17:23 2009
From: drivenkick43 at yahoo.com (Nathan A.)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rs: Erden?
Message-ID: <690924.77595.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

he's under contract for another year overseas and will not be attending
summer league or camp

everyone seems fine with that since he needs at least another year in the
oven anyway

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:38 PM, R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does anyone on the list have info on last years 2nd round pick and stash
> Euro?
> Will he be coming to camp/SL this year? Is he still locked up by contract
> to his overseas team? Will he ever even make it across the pond for a true
> tryout. Considering we have lost Powe, wouldnt bringing him in for a
> look-see make sense?
> Go C's
>

Well, how about Ben Pepper then? Surely he's had enough seasoning overseas by now?
;)


      

From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 21:50:43 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Glen Davis Update - If Everything Falls Through Update
Message-ID: <3160.63823.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


http://twitter.com/Gary_Tanguay
BIg Baby update. A source close to Glen Davis told me the pistons, memphis, spurs and NY are interested in signing Davis. 

                    ______________________

Well, the Celtics have offered Sheed two years at the full MLE (2nd year is likely a team option, as the C's are concentrating on the 2010 FA sweepstakes) - Rasheed wants three years or more as the rumors say.

If everything fall through: Backup plan seems to be focused on McDyess, Childress or Marion. 

Ray




      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 23:45:22 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
Message-ID: <321265.22744.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


It was Danny (or Doc, I can't exactly remember) who said that chemistry was over-rated and that it basically came about whenever winning occurred.  That's been his and the Cs credo from day 1.  Our best character and chemistry team might have been the 2006-2007 team, and that team sucked.

As for Wallace: he's not madman, he's just misunderstood.  He's universally adored by his teammates, praised by his coaches (from high school on up) as having a mensa-level BBIQ, and he's super-charitable off the court.

As for your list of current Celtic misfits: don't put Perk on there--he may scowl, but underneath it all he's the most decent guy on the team; he gives the most honest answers to the media and has had to work the hardest to get where he's at (relative to his skill level).  He's a stand up guy on the team and budding team-leader.  Remember his quote post Championship?  "Hard work pays off."  Who doesn't love that?

Ryan

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: Character/chemistry is helpful ... or who cares?
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:01 AM
> When I questioned whether we wanted a
> team that had?
> bonkers madmen Garnett, Rasheed, and Marbury?
> all on it at the same time,? I neglected to mention
> that?
> our 2009-10 roster might also include the surly Rondo,?
> the churlish Perk, the crazy-ass Tony Allen, the void of
> IQ Giddens, etc., etc.? Gone is good guy Powe
> (Ubi - I hear your pain) which leaves only Ray Allen,
> Scal,
> and Pierce as level-headed dudes on our team.
> 
> Not even sure if high character senior citizens McDyess?
> (whose stats last year were near equal to Rasheed?s) or?
> Grant Hill will even sign with us.? Am hearing now that
> they?
> may not, especially if we sign Rasheed.???And frankly,
> it?s looking like Rasheed all the way.
> 
> As long as Ainge relies upon/defers to Garnett to do?
> his recruiting,? I have??little confidence in our FAs if
> they 
> and Garnett?are soul brothers.
> 
> Go after Artest in the unlikely event that Rasheed ends
> up?
> elsewhere?? Holy cow.? Why not just fill out the roster
> with?
> Jack Nicholson?s pals in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
> Nest.?
> 
> Nurse Ratched
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  2 23:56:03 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <631693.32719.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Obviously, Danny thinks similarly.  We'll see--some team could be handsomely rewarded for showing some faith in him.  Anybody remember Bernard King?  The Knicks gave up on him, thought he was finished, and he came back to haunt them.  Never underestimate someone who knows the value of hard work and who has proven he can play on the NBA level.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 9:02 AM
> He will be available by the time he
> will finish rehabbing: there is no team
> in the NBA picking him up right now. I don't see why the
> C's should hold the
> roster spot half of the season for nothing in return.
> 
> I like the kid much better than Baby, but this is #3 major
> on his knees.
> 
> AG
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > In some sense you're right, in another you're
> wrong.? Well see how it turns
> > out, but in the course of business there is a lot of
> guessing that takes
> > place.? It's my guess that Powe comes back, given
> his character and past
> > history of coming back from knee injuries.? Not
> every place on the roster
> > needs to be a contributing member of the team for 82
> games--there is room
> > for projects.? I just think Powe's past work
> warrants his place on the
> > project list, at least for one more season.
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:18 PM
> > > What you suggest is a plain out
> > > gambling: nobody knows when he'll return,
> > > and how long it will take to recover to his old
> level (if
> > > at all). Keeping
> > > the roster spot just because we all have a soft
> spot for
> > > Powe cannot be
> > > justified.
> > >
> > > Good management decision.
> > >
> > > AG
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to
> come back to
> > > haunt the Cs.? A
> > > > couple days ago, I said that actively
> gauging Rondo's
> > > value around the
> > > > league was right up there with one of
> Ainge's greatest
> > > blunders (the
> > > > original Antoine trade being the greatest).
> > > Well, let me amend that: not
> > > > extending the QO to Powe, and then not even
> making him
> > > feel welcome at the
> > > > veteran minimum is a bad bad move and might
> just rank
> > > up there with his
> > > > worst.? Sad day for Cs fans
> today.? After
> > > carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > > > Giddens and Moore last season and watching
> them
> > > contribute almost nothing,
> > > > we can't extend Leon the same courtesy, even
> after
> > > he's shown he can
> > > > actually play?? Bullshit.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > > By Mark Murphy
> > > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped
> for roster
> > > space as they delve
> > > > into the free agent market, have decided to
> part ways
> > > with Leon Powe.
> > > >
> > > > That, at least, is the impression left with
> the
> > > 25-year-old forward
> > > > following a conversation with President of
> Basketball
> > > Operations Danny Ainge
> > > > yesterday.
> > > >
> > > > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee
> surgery,
> > > did not receive a
> > > > qualifying offer from the Celtics by the
> Monday night
> > > deadline. As a result,
> > > > Powe became an unrestricted free agent.
> > > >
> > > > Five teams reportedly called with interest
> in the
> > > power forward after
> > > > midnight, including Miami, Memphis and
> Orlando.
> > > >
> > > > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I
> want to
> > > come back,? Powe said
> > > > today. ?I love the fans. It was just a
> wonderful
> > > place to play.?
> > > >
> > > > Powe walked away from his conversation
> believing that
> > > his time as a Celtic
> > > > was finished.
> > > >
> > > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,?
> he said of
> > > whether he got the sense
> > > > the Celtics might be interested in
> re-signing him
> > > later in the summer. ?I
> > > > knew they wouldn?t (offer a qualifying
> offer), so I
> > > just have to move on.
> > > >
> > > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said
> of whether
> > > his connection with the
> > > > Celtics was finished. They told me, ?Good
> luck with
> > > another team.? Doc
> > > > (Rivers) told me that he wanted me there,
> and he would
> > > do whatever he could
> > > > to make sure I came back, but Danny came to
> me
> > > yesterday saying that they
> > > > only have a two-year window, and I would be
> taking up
> > > a roster spot for
> > > > someone else.?
> > > >
> > > > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be
> interested
> > > in signing Powe,
> > > > though only after he recovers from knee
> surgery.
> > > >
> > > > ?We love Leon, and would consider having
> Leon back
> > > at any time, once he
> > > > gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > > >
> > > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not
> surprised
> > > when the qualifying
> > > > offer didn?t come. But disappointment is
> another
> > > matter.
> > > >
> > > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never
> surprised
> > > because it?s a business,? said
> > > > Goodwin. ?I don?t want people thinking
> that
> > > we?re looking for sympathy,
> > > > because Leon is going to play again. The
> Celtics are
> > > aware that he?s ahead
> > > > of schedule.?
> > > >
> > > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics
> practice
> > > facility in Waltham,
> > > > arrived in Los Angeles yesterday to continue
> his
> > > comeback. According to
> > > > Goodwin, Powe has progressed so well that he
> might be
> > > able to return to
> > > > action by December. Powe said that doctors
> have put
> > > his window for a return
> > > > closer to February.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From wayoftheray at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 00:23:04 2009
From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:23:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: C's Continue To Get Mauled, Artest Signing With Lakers
Message-ID: <923429.28064.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Ron Artest has told Ken Berger of CBSSports.com that he will sign with the Los Angeles Lakers.

"I'm definitely going to L.A. -- to sign, yeah," Artest said in a phone interview. "Lakers, Lakers, Lakers. I'm in L.A. right now."

Home Run Baker -- http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=46761 -- best sums up the strengths and weaknesses of Danny Ainge:

Ainge deserves 100% credit for restructuring a team of Paul Pierce and a bunch of crap into Championship Banner #17. He is also getting his ass absolutely handed to him right now as all the contenders are making serious upgrades while we sit back and not get the job done. Ainge better start by getting Rasheed locked up in the next 24 hours and then continue addressing our other areas of concern.



      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 00:29:27 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ariza
Message-ID: <478265.27822.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


The problem with your line of thinking is that you view each offseason as a discreet entity and fail to realize that what you do this season effects what you can do next season and the season after that.  

The problem with you and your like is the classic myopic Internet fan boy attitude of 'what have you done for me lately,' a refrain that no doubt rings out every fucking minute of your life as you fail to see the big picture for want of the grandiose and precious ideas that sprout minute by minute in your brain, each one unconnected to the other except by place of origin.  I ask you again, what would you have done?  Other than going back in time and convincing KG to have his bone spurs removed in the offseason (and thus go against all medical opinions at that time), there's NOTHING Danny could have done to bring home another championship in 2009.  He knew then, as he does now, that regardless of what he adds on the periphery, our championship aspiration begin and end with the health of our starting five.

He also knows how to put reasonable value on free agents.  As such, he valued the free agent market of 2008 as a seller's market and the free agent market of 2009 as a buyer's market.  He also correctly noted that MUCH, MUCH more talent was available during the buyer's market than the seller's market.  Yet here you come along, crying about James Posey and why we didn't waste our money on him, when it's plain to just about everyone that not only would James Posey have done NOTHING to improve our championship chances last season, his signing would have basically PARALYZED our ability to add anyone of note with the MLE either this summer or next, thereby unnaturally limiting an already shortening window.  But, yeah, sure, fall back on the utterly naive argument that when you have a chance to win a championship you have to add good pricey players and not subtract them, and thereby completely put every one of your shiny precious eggs in the same fucking
 basket, never thinking about next year, or the year after that, and how you might want to set aside some of those eggs just in case you fall on your ass on the way to market.  But, hell, you had a CHANCE to sell everyone of those eggs, so I guess it was worth the risk of falling on your ass and busting yoke on the country side.  Luckily for us, Danny's a better farmer than THAT and when his chickens come home to roost, it won't be because he bet the farm on a single season's end result.

Ryan
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Ariza
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 8:23 PM
> Uhhm, Ryan? The difference between us
> and the Knicks, as you might consult a
> basketball almanac to discover, is that the Knicks have not
> been called upon
> to defend a title in over thirty five years, and those
> terrible "high high
> risk" players that plauged their cap during the Isiah years
> were the
> accumulated detrius of a failed rebuilding effort. You see,
> unlike the
> Knicks, we won a title. We had (and maybe HAVE) a chance to
> win more.
> Generally this means that adding good, pricey players is
> likely to aid the
> effort, not detract from it. Not to mention keeping a key
> sixth man who
> (according to Doc Rivers) provided a significant
> character/locker room role,
> something Danny has constantly undervalued.
> 
> As for my lack of intelligence and naive-ty, you can sling
> as much sh-t as
> you want, it doesn't change the fact that Danny's
> propensity for making
> low-ball offerings to free agents and making public
> pronouncements about how
> "we are a team of three stars" has not helped the team
> improve its
> reputation as a landing spot for potential FA's. Mind you,
> he claimed that
> this was a major goal of his when he took over the team.
> And tell me Ryan,
> what happens when your shiny new MLE player is Dahntey
> Jones and Fabricio
> Oberto?
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > George, what exactly would you have him do?? You
> identified the problem,
> > but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores
> market demands or
> > practically any long term thinking beyond the here and
> now.? Yes, almost our
> > entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging
> Hall-of-Famers.? As such, it seems
> > wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling
> out the rest of the
> > roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried
> rookies and bargain
> > basement free agent signings represent the safest
> investments and allow the
> > greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age,
> flexibility which is
> > paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury,
> and high salaries.
> >? But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we
> were the NY Knicks, who have
> > consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign
> high risk high reward
> > players almost every season without fail.? That
> hasn't exactly worked out,
> > but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the
> willingness to win.? But
> >? success takes more than will--it takes a little
> intelligence, something
> > you can't seem to understand.
> >
> > Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer
> of 2008 free agent
> > sweepstakes.? Danny identified that summer as
> being low in free agent talent
> > while at the same time being a seller's market.?
> Why buy high in a low
> > quality store?? Especially when you can wait a
> year and buy low in a high
> > quality store.? That was the plan and if you wait
> a month you'll see a shiny
> > new MLE-level player staring you in the face.?
> What will you say then?? That
> > you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player
> (Posey) instead of
> > underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed
> Wallace), even when the risk
> > of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically
> nullified by Garnett's
> > season-ending injury?
> >
> > Ryan
> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has
> thrown $56
> > > million at our "big
> > > three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps
> to support
> > > them. The
> > > difference between our third highest paid player
> (in 08/09)
> > > Ray Allen, and
> > > our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something
> like 13
> > > million dollars.
> > > With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried
> players
> > > (ie: Rondo), that
> > > money disparity reflects how little talent we
> have beyond
> > > the big three, and
> > > how ownership has failed to commit the necessary
> resources
> > > to supporting
> > > them in pursuit of another title (not mere
> "relevancy"). In
> > > my opinion,
> > > Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key
> component of a
> > > championship team
> > > go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a
> trainwreck
> > > like Tony Allen. As
> > > for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of
> Mikki
> > > Moore, that speaks
> > > for itself.
> > >
> > > (and I would note, the original composition of
> our
> > > title-winning team was a
> > > lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> > > essentially, just happened
> > > to be there. You don't always get lucky like
> that, and when
> > > you do, you
> > > should be smart enough to hold onto the player
> combinations
> > > that have proven
> > > to work, not arrogantly posturing about having
> three stars
> > > who everyone else
> > > should be happy to play with for minimum NBA
> wage)
> > >
> > > As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be
> your own. I
> > > was simply
> > > indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as
> currently
> > > construed being any
> > > kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market,
> via signing
> > > or sign-n-trade,
> > > regardless of what our beloved team owner
> carelessly opines
> > > in the mass
> > > media. However, since the usual "Danny's an
> idiot"/"how can
> > > you doubt Danny
> > > he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane
> Wade and
> > > Chris Bosh"
> > > arguement will demean us to the level of a
> typical
> > > Celticsblog forum
> > > discussion, I'll relent and give it to you -
> you're right,
> > > anything can
> > > happen.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert
> <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >saying "show me the money" to Danny
> Ainge is like
> > > trying to build a
> > > > >functional rocketship with popsicle
> sticks. Which
> > > is to say, you won't get
> > > > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea
> of "money"
> > > is a pro-rated
> > > > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> > > >
> > > > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the
> Celtics
> > > cheap? We currently
> > > > have
> > > > the fifth highest payroll in the league,
> only 5%
> > > (chump change) behind the
> > > > highest:
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> > > >
> > > > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's,
> but I'm
> > > convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > > > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10
> in order
> > > to flail around in the
> > > > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be
> offering up
> > > Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > > > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home
> empty
> > > handed in the most noble
> > > > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears,
> naturally).
> > > Meanwhile, we'll content
> > > > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other
> marginal
> > > NBA'er we can find with
> > > > >bills to pay and the superficial
> skill-set
> > > to address our many gaping
> > > > holes
> > > > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG
> when he
> > > goes down again in April).
> > > >
> > > > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the
> same Danny
> > > who successfully traded
> > > > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting
> in a
> > > championship? Wouldn't that
> > > > be the best set of trades in recent NBA
> history?
> > > >
> > > > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's
> free-agent
> > > signings. But saying
> > > > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> > > >
> > > > -- Eric
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 00:35:52 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:35:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <105647.86700.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I guess we have a different understanding of potential.  Is the potential that POB grows a pair, adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct any greater or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from an injury that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable in the last 10 years? 

Ryan
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> Problem there is those 5 question
> marks were healthy and had the potential to contribute
> immediately .? Powe has no potential right now, so why
> waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just for his family
> values and what he did for his siblings.? That alone
> earns him all my respect.? But ou can't hold a spot for
> being a good guy.? The window is closing on the Big
> Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for being
> tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench
> players?? Everyone is a year older, and we aren't
> champs any longer.? It's time to bring in players who
> can contribute immediately.? And besides, Allen is in
> his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If there
> is room for another player, it's best to hold out until the
> trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player who's
> blown out his knee 3 times.
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> How many question marks did we waste spots on last
> season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens,
> Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense of
> POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is the best of
> the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he could be
> easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab prove
> unsuccessful.
> 
> This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a non-question
> mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't it be
> easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or Giddens,
> for example) before Powe?? We'll see how it plays out,
> but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer for
> the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based on
> physical fitness.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > question mark, when there are other players than can
> > contribute immediately.
> > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote: 
> > > 
> > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> haunt
> > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that actively
> > gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up
> there
> > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original
> Antoine
> > trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend that:
> > not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making
> him
> > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move
> and
> > might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad day
> for
> > Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> contribute
> > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same
> courtesy, even
> > after he's shown he can actually play?? Bullshit.
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > By Mark Murphy
> > Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> > 
> > 
> > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> space
> > as they delve into the free agent market, have decided
> to
> > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > 
> > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> 25-year-old
> > forward following a conversation with President of
> > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> > 
> > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> did
> > not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by
> the
> > Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an
> > unrestricted free agent.
> > 
> > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> power
> > forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and
> > Orlando.
> > 
> > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> come
> > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was
> just a
> > wonderful place to play.?
> > 
> > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> his
> > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > 
> > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> > whether he got the sense the Celtics might be
> interested in
> > re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they
> > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have
> to
> > move on.
> > 
> > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> his
> > connection with the Celtics was finished. They told
> me,
> > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told
> me that
> > he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could
> to
> > make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday
> saying
> > that they only have a two-year window, and I would be
> taking
> > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > 
> > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> in
> > signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee
> > surgery.
> > 
> > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> at any
> > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > 
> > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> when
> > the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment
> is
> > another matter.
> > 
> > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> because
> > it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want
> people
> > thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because
> Leon is
> > going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s
> ahead
> > of schedule.?
> > 
> > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday
> to
> > continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has
> > progressed so well that he might be able to return to
> action
> > by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
> window for
> > a return closer to February.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 00:55:44 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: C's Continue To Get Mauled, Artest Signing With Lakers
Message-ID: <893865.73336.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Big deal.  Am I the only one who's nonplussed?  Ariza was a perfect fit for the Lakers--young, hungry, great spot-up shooter, kept his mouth shut, let Kobe 'lead' him, etc.  Ron-Ron, as much as I love him, over-dribbles the ball ALOT, is not a good spot up shooter (he needs to dribble it around for 10 seconds first), doesn't keep his mouth shut, and has the potential for some odd-ball antics.  The Lakers would have been smarter to hang on to Ariza--he's a perfect fit, he's young, and he's getting better.  Artest is a less-than-ideal fit and he's getting old (soon to be 30, and losing some of his defensive prowess).  

This one has the potential to blow up in their faces.  I just hope Ariza doesn't go to the Cavs.

Ryan

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> Subject: C's Continue To Get Mauled, Artest Signing With Lakers
> To: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>, "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:23 PM
> 
> Ron Artest has told Ken Berger of CBSSports.com that he
> will sign with the Los Angeles Lakers.
> 
> "I'm definitely going to L.A. -- to sign, yeah," Artest
> said in a phone interview. "Lakers, Lakers, Lakers. I'm in
> L.A. right now."
> 
> Home Run Baker -- http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=46761 --
> best sums up the strengths and weaknesses of Danny Ainge:
> 
> Ainge deserves 100% credit for restructuring a team of Paul
> Pierce and a bunch of crap into Championship Banner #17. He
> is also getting his ass absolutely handed to him right now
> as all the contenders are making serious upgrades while we
> sit back and not get the job done. Ainge better start by
> getting Rasheed locked up in the next 24 hours and then
> continue addressing our other areas of concern.
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From hartleyo at bellsouth.net  Fri Jul  3 01:08:12 2009
From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:08:12 -0400
Subject: Artest - "I am happy to say I am goin' to L.A."
Message-ID: <DEA703CA764641809E62D7FE7BE60007@D2F52Z11>

Lakers definitely upgraded and got tougher - Celts really have to get Wallace and maybe Bowen (when released -a damn good lock down defender) and it makes the C's much tougher. Just a thought.

Hart

The ESPN article 
Free-agent forward Ron Artest says he's leaving the Houston Rockets to join the Los Angeles Lakers


In a text message to ESPN.com on Thursday night, Artest wrote: "I am happy to say I am goin' to L.A."

ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard reports that Artest and the Lakers have reached a verbal agreement on what is believed to be a three-year contract worth an estimated $18 million. Wednesday is the first day free agents are permitted to sign new deals.

Artest's decision was first reported by CBSSports.com. The mercurial swingman was initially courted by the Cleveland Cavaliers.

In his text message, Artest said that he met Thursday with Lakers owner Jerry Buss and had spoken to coach Phil Jackson about the move to Los Angeles, where Artest has been spending his offseasons.

Artest's forthcoming arrival strongly suggests that unrestricted free agent Trevor Ariza -- who played such a pivotal run in the Lakers' championship run -- is bound to leave the team. Broussard reported Wednesday that, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations, Ariza was likely to leave the Lakers for a new team because L.A. was reluctant to sign him to a contract starting above the league's $5.6 million mid-level exception, even after Ariza's postseason success.

Ariza has been courted by numerous teams, including Cleveland, and met Thursday in Las Vegas with Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey to possibly swap spots with Artest.

Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.



From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 01:20:20 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:20:20 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <105647.86700.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090702212020.I74RI.114101.imail@eastrmwml29>

I think POB would be a much better choice right now than Leon.  If I had to waste a roster spot on  July 2, 2009, I'd waste it on POB.  At least he can step onto the court and make some contribution, albeit minimal.  Leon can't out produce him, and may never in the future.  So, IMO yes, POB has more potential. But what you're overlooking is that was then and this is now.  Soemtimes you have to roll the dice with a player, but not  with loaded dice. At the time we signed POB we needed a long player to backup Perk, and POB was available.  Hindsight is 20-20 and it was evident that he didn't quite cut the proverbial mustard.  But  right now, there is no need to fill a spot with a player who can't and maybe never play. Offering a contract to a real nice guy just because he is a nice guy is not only a poor business decision, it's just outright ridiculous.  
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
I guess we have a different understanding of potential.  Is the potential that POB grows a pair, adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct any greater or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from an injury that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable in the last 10 years? 

Ryan
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> Problem there is those 5 question
> marks were healthy and had the potential to contribute
> immediately .? Powe has no potential right now, so why
> waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just for his family
> values and what he did for his siblings.? That alone
> earns him all my respect.? But ou can't hold a spot for
> being a good guy.? The window is closing on the Big
> Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for being
> tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench
> players?? Everyone is a year older, and we aren't
> champs any longer.? It's time to bring in players who
> can contribute immediately.? And besides, Allen is in
> his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If there
> is room for another player, it's best to hold out until the
> trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player who's
> blown out his knee 3 times.
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> How many question marks did we waste spots on last
> season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens,
> Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense of
> POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is the best of
> the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he could be
> easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab prove
> unsuccessful.
> 
> This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a non-question
> mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't it be
> easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or Giddens,
> for example) before Powe?? We'll see how it plays out,
> but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer for
> the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based on
> physical fitness.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > question mark, when there are other players than can
> > contribute immediately.
> > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote: 
> > > 
> > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come back to
> haunt
> > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that actively
> > gauging Rondo's value around the league was right up
> there
> > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the original
> Antoine
> > trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend that:
> > not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even making
> him
> > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad move
> and
> > might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad day
> for
> > Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB, Pruitt,
> > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> contribute
> > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same
> courtesy, even
> > after he's shown he can actually play?? Bullshit.
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > By Mark Murphy
> > Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> > 
> > 
> > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for roster
> space
> > as they delve into the free agent market, have decided
> to
> > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > 
> > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> 25-year-old
> > forward following a conversation with President of
> > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> > 
> > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee surgery,
> did
> > not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics by
> the
> > Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became an
> > unrestricted free agent.
> > 
> > Five teams reportedly called with interest in the
> power
> > forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis and
> > Orlando.
> > 
> > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want to
> come
> > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It was
> just a
> > wonderful place to play.?
> > 
> > Powe walked away from his conversation believing that
> his
> > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > 
> > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he said of
> > whether he got the sense the Celtics might be
> interested in
> > re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew they
> > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just have
> to
> > move on.
> > 
> > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of whether
> his
> > connection with the Celtics was finished. They told
> me,
> > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers) told
> me that
> > he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he could
> to
> > make sure I came back, but Danny came to me yesterday
> saying
> > that they only have a two-year window, and I would be
> taking
> > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > 
> > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be interested
> in
> > signing Powe, though only after he recovers from knee
> > surgery.
> > 
> > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon back
> at any
> > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > 
> > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not surprised
> when
> > the qualifying offer didn?t come. But disappointment
> is
> > another matter.
> > 
> > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> because
> > it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t want
> people
> > thinking that we?re looking for sympathy, because
> Leon is
> > going to play again. The Celtics are aware that he?s
> ahead
> > of schedule.?
> > 
> > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics practice
> > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles yesterday
> to
> > continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe has
> > progressed so well that he might be able to return to
> action
> > by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
> window for
> > a return closer to February.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 01:27:34 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:27:34 -0400
Subject: C's Continue To Get Mauled, Artest Signing With Lakers
In-Reply-To: <893865.73336.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090702212734.3WT3O.114179.imail@eastrmwml29>

Read some of the Houston fans' comments prior to this news.  They warn people that he is not the guy to be on the court at crunch time. He had a lot of Rocket fans complain about his game and his knack of impoding teams. Phil might actually have to work next year trying to meld his team with a new, egocentric player.  I agree with your assessment of Ariza.  He was a great fit, and as much talent as Artest has, he is going to have to accept his role as a 3rd or 4th option.  The good news is that Egg can't complain.  Since he is the biggest headcase in the NBA, it's better he ruin their chemistry.  After all, we already have way too many problem players according her.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Big deal.  Am I the only one who's nonplussed?  Ariza was a perfect fit for the Lakers--young, hungry, great spot-up shooter, kept his mouth shut, let Kobe 'lead' him, etc.  Ron-Ron, as much as I love him, over-dribbles the ball ALOT, is not a good spot up shooter (he needs to dribble it around for 10 seconds first), doesn't keep his mouth shut, and has the potential for some odd-ball antics.  The Lakers would have been smarter to hang on to Ariza--he's a perfect fit, he's young, and he's getting better.  Artest is a less-than-ideal fit and he's getting old (soon to be 30, and losing some of his defensive prowess).  
> 
> This one has the potential to blow up in their faces.  I just hope Ariza doesn't go to the Cavs.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Way Of The Ray <wayoftheray at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: C's Continue To Get Mauled, Artest Signing With Lakers
> > To: "Celtics Stuff" <celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com>, "Celtics Are Idiots List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:23 PM
> > 
> > Ron Artest has told Ken Berger of CBSSports.com that he
> > will sign with the Los Angeles Lakers.
> > 
> > "I'm definitely going to L.A. -- to sign, yeah," Artest
> > said in a phone interview. "Lakers, Lakers, Lakers. I'm in
> > L.A. right now."
> > 
> > Home Run Baker -- http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=46761 --
> > best sums up the strengths and weaknesses of Danny Ainge:
> > 
> > Ainge deserves 100% credit for restructuring a team of Paul
> > Pierce and a bunch of crap into Championship Banner #17. He
> > is also getting his ass absolutely handed to him right now
> > as all the contenders are making serious upgrades while we
> > sit back and not get the job done. Ainge better start by
> > getting Rasheed locked up in the next 24 hours and then
> > continue addressing our other areas of concern.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 01:52:38 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 18:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Artest - "I am happy to say I am goin' to L.A."
In-Reply-To: <DEA703CA764641809E62D7FE7BE60007@D2F52Z11>
References: <DEA703CA764641809E62D7FE7BE60007@D2F52Z11>
Message-ID: <171062.4471.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

We need somehow to get Wallace,?Ariza, and Marbury or Jannero Pargo?even if we have to lose Baby, unfortunately Ariza is probaly out of reach if we sign Wallace?

Buss is willing to pay the luxury tax



________________________________
From: "hartleyo at bellsouth.net" <hartleyo at bellsouth.net>
To: Celtics List <Celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 6:08:12 PM
Subject: Artest - "I am happy to say I am goin' to L.A."

Lakers definitely upgraded and got tougher - Celts really have to get Wallace and maybe Bowen (when released -a damn good lock down defender) and it makes the C's much tougher. Just a thought.

Hart

The ESPN article 
Free-agent forward Ron Artest says he's leaving the Houston Rockets to join the Los Angeles Lakers


In a text message to ESPN.com on Thursday night, Artest wrote: "I am happy to say I am goin' to L.A."

ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard reports that Artest and the Lakers have reached a verbal agreement on what is believed to be a three-year contract worth an estimated $18 million. Wednesday is the first day free agents are permitted to sign new deals.

Artest's decision was first reported by CBSSports.com. The mercurial swingman was initially courted by the Cleveland Cavaliers.

In his text message, Artest said that he met Thursday with Lakers owner Jerry Buss and had spoken to coach Phil Jackson about the move to Los Angeles, where Artest has been spending his offseasons.

Artest's forthcoming arrival strongly suggests that unrestricted free agent Trevor Ariza -- who played such a pivotal run in the Lakers' championship run -- is bound to leave the team. Broussard reported Wednesday that, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations, Ariza was likely to leave the Lakers for a new team because L.A. was reluctant to sign him to a contract starting above the league's $5.6 million mid-level exception, even after Ariza's postseason success.

Ariza has been courted by numerous teams, including Cleveland, and met Thursday in Las Vegas with Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey to possibly swap spots with Artest.

Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.


_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 02:24:50 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:24:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
Message-ID: <305696.82734.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth. 

I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of course he didn't.


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 02:27:51 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:27:51 -0700
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
In-Reply-To: <305696.82734.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <305696.82734.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <37C7DF72-AAF7-4727-9D98-DE0893993D28@verizon.net>

He might change his mind now the lakers didn't make him an offer

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the  
> Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth.
>
> I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least  
> made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of  
> course he didn't.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 02:49:56 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:49:56 -0400
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
In-Reply-To: <37C7DF72-AAF7-4727-9D98-DE0893993D28@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20090702224956.NM6AH.160371.imail@eastrmwml44>

I doubt it.  He wouldn't fit in-too many head cases on the Celtics.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> He might change his mind now the lakers didn't make him an offer
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the  
> > Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth.
> >
> > I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least  
> > made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of  
> > course he didn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From douglas342 at aol.com  Fri Jul  3 04:05:13 2009
From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:05:13 -0400
Subject: question re Leon
Message-ID: <8CBC9AA997D73EC-104C-203D@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com>

OK, so Leon is now a free agent.  Do the Celtics continue to pay for 
his medical care?  Is he on his own for rehab unless another team picks 
him up and foots the bill?  Does a player in his position likely have 
some sort of insurance to cover all or part of this (salary and rehab)? 


If he is strictly on his own, then it seems to me he is injured and 
unemployed, and it's going to be a tough road back.

Finally, does anyone out there see anyone signing him?  I would think 
that some backwater team might take a chance on him for whatever the 
minimum is.  If he does make it back, they get a great deal, and if not 
- hey, league minimum.


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 09:39:59 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 02:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
Message-ID: <336743.95948.qm@web56705.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Now that Artest is now De-test because he is a Laker, to me that sends a message to Odom and Ariza that the Lakers are not going to spend on them making one or both signable.?
I would like us to get Odom and Wallace, overspend/tax for this year and next, or same for Wallace/Ariza combo. Sign a competent scrub backup PG for min., Sign Davis, trade Scals expiring w/TA for a future second plus someones 2 year bad contract. ?Could sub a sign and trade Davis with that trade for something of minor value or future cap space if Swift is deemed healthy and ready to take a third string C/PF role.
Team would look something like this:
Perk/Rasheed/Swift ?Garnett/Odom or Ariza plus maybe PowePierce/WalkerR.A./House/Giddens or HudsonRhondo/Marberry/FA or Pruitt?
Makes for a great, scary flexible starting five and bench that could play D down low and on the wings plus score. This team could match up with anybody for the next 2 years.
The key is if the C's sign Wallace they also need to get an equally quality player that can score and defend multiple wing positions. The C's need to think primarily for this year and next, money be Darn'd. I trust Danny to be able to quickly blow up a team and rebuild after this period.
Go C's

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:49 PM

I doubt it.? He wouldn't fit in-too many head cases on the Celtics.
---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> He might change his mind now the lakers didn't make him an offer
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the? 
> > Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth.
> >
> > I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least? 
> > made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of? 
> > course he didn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 11:53:50 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 7:53:50 -0400
Subject: question re Leon
In-Reply-To: <8CBC9AA997D73EC-104C-203D@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090703075350.L4FIC.156407.imail@eastrmwml30>

I all honesty, with a decrease in the cap, which teams out there can be willing to sign a player who won't be ready until at least the All Star game or later?  I don;t see any team sitting fat , dumb and happy enough to give him a contract just yet.  That is, anyone not named Chris Wallace.  After all, he gave Vin Baker a shot (no pun intended).
---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: 
> OK, so Leon is now a free agent.  Do the Celtics continue to pay for 
> his medical care?  Is he on his own for rehab unless another team picks 
> him up and foots the bill?  Does a player in his position likely have 
> some sort of insurance to cover all or part of this (salary and rehab)? 
> 
> 
> If he is strictly on his own, then it seems to me he is injured and 
> unemployed, and it's going to be a tough road back.
> 
> Finally, does anyone out there see anyone signing him?  I would think 
> that some backwater team might take a chance on him for whatever the 
> minimum is.  If he does make it back, they get a great deal, and if not 
> - hey, league minimum.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 12:01:36 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 8:01:36 -0400
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
In-Reply-To: <336743.95948.qm@web56705.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090703080136.6JUYC.156439.imail@eastrmwml30>

Odom would have been my first choice, but he want's more than we can offer him.  I'm with Egg (must be a full moon) on McDyess over Wallace, but Wallace still would be a decent acquisition, warts and all.\ as he's a better offensive player and like McDyess, play two positons. Ariza may be headed to Houston and also out of our price range.  Seems like the Rockets who  from pie in the sky, to oat meal in just a week with Yao possibly out for another season and the loss of RA, not to mention the ever injured Tracy McGrady. Grant Hill, although over the Hill, is on Danny's radar screen, but that could be just talk.  Bruce Bowen could be had for cheap money, too.  And of course there is still Joe Smith who's name comes up every year for a lot of teams.
---- R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Now that Artest is now De-test because he is a Laker, to me that sends a message to Odom and Ariza that the Lakers are not going to spend on them making one or both signable.?
> I would like us to get Odom and Wallace, overspend/tax for this year and next, or same for Wallace/Ariza combo. Sign a competent scrub backup PG for min., Sign Davis, trade Scals expiring w/TA for a future second plus someones 2 year bad contract. ?Could sub a sign and trade Davis with that trade for something of minor value or future cap space if Swift is deemed healthy and ready to take a third string C/PF role.
> Team would look something like this:
> Perk/Rasheed/Swift ?Garnett/Odom or Ariza plus maybe PowePierce/WalkerR.A./House/Giddens or HudsonRhondo/Marberry/FA or Pruitt?
> Makes for a great, scary flexible starting five and bench that could play D down low and on the wings plus score. This team could match up with anybody for the next 2 years.
> The key is if the C's sign Wallace they also need to get an equally quality player that can score and defend multiple wing positions. The C's need to think primarily for this year and next, money be Darn'd. I trust Danny to be able to quickly blow up a team and rebuild after this period.
> Go C's
> 
> --- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:49 PM
> 
> I doubt it.? He wouldn't fit in-too many head cases on the Celtics.
> ---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> > He might change his mind now the lakers didn't make him an offer
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the? 
> > > Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth.
> > >
> > > I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least? 
> > > made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of? 
> > > course he didn't.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 12:36:48 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 05:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <949500.37449.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


It's not about him being a nice guy, though he is..it's about his PROVEN track record of NBA-ability.  He's also PROVEN to be able to come back from an ACL tear (and for the love of God, let's get the facts straight--he blew out his knee once in high school, and had 2 surgeries over the next year to correct the injury--his latest injury is his 2nd ACL tear).  He has the skill, he simply needs to recover from his latest injury.  

The biggest thing about recovering from injury is how one responds mentally and emotionally.  A guy like TA, it took him a long time to come back and he still may never come all the way back.  A guy like Powe, on the other hand, average 20 and 10 in college the year after surgery...  HE CAN COME BACK!  And he can do it next season...

The fascination with POB continues to amaze--some of this list were lamenting the fact last summer that we ONLY signed him for 2 seasons, or predicting that POB would take Perk's starting spot by midseason.  Oh, God!  

I'll say it again: Powe's 'potential' to recover from an injury he's already beaten once is far greater than POB's 'potential' to grow a pair of nuts and take advantage of his God given ability.  And it's not not even close.  It seems you'd rather fly in the face of 20 years of evidence (in this case, POB's record as a soft, lazy, non-competitor) than believe that Powe can recover from an injury that has become eminently easy to recover from, even with the knowledge of Powe's strong character, mental makeup, and worth ethic.  Ridiculous!

I understand the 'business' aspect of the decision just fine.  I just think from a basketball perspective signing Powe to a partially guaranteed 1 year deal at the minimum is a no-brainer.  The guys 'with potential' that will litter the end of our bench next season will be just that: 'guys with potential,' be it Robert Swift or POB or whomever.  Those guys hardly turn out.  If we're going to have a couple projects on the end of the bench, I'd rather bet--from a basketball standpoint--on the heart and will power of someone we've already come to know and love and NOT on the .00001 percent chance that high-ability, low work ethic players who go by the 'potential' moniker actually make something of themselves.  THAT's the dumb basketball decision, betting on guys who've never shown a willingness to take what they were given and to use it.  Those guys NEVER work out.  It's not about potential, it's about character and work ethic--and if you don't have that,
 you can't exactly wake up one morning and suddenly discover it within.

Ryan
--- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:20 PM
> I think POB would be a much better
> choice right now than Leon.? If I had to waste a roster
> spot on? July 2, 2009, I'd waste it on POB.? At
> least he can step onto the court and make some contribution,
> albeit minimal.? Leon can't out produce him, and may
> never in the future.? So, IMO yes, POB has more
> potential. But what you're overlooking is that was then and
> this is now.? Soemtimes you have to roll the dice with
> a player, but not? with loaded dice. At the time we
> signed POB we needed a long player to backup Perk, and POB
> was available.? Hindsight is 20-20 and it was evident
> that he didn't quite cut the proverbial mustard.?
> But? right now, there is no need to fill a spot with a
> player who can't and maybe never play. Offering a contract
> to a real nice guy just because he is a nice guy is not only
> a poor business decision, it's just outright
> ridiculous.? 
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> I guess we have a different understanding of
> potential.? Is the potential that POB grows a pair,
> adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct any greater
> or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from an injury
> that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable in the
> last 10 years? 
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> > Problem there is those 5 question
> > marks were healthy and had the potential to
> contribute
> > immediately .? Powe has no potential right now, so
> why
> > waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just for his
> family
> > values and what he did for his siblings.? That alone
> > earns him all my respect.? But ou can't hold a spot
> for
> > being a good guy.? The window is closing on the Big
> > Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for
> being
> > tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench
> > players?? Everyone is a year older, and we aren't
> > champs any longer.? It's time to bring in players
> who
> > can contribute immediately.? And besides, Allen is
> in
> > his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If
> there
> > is room for another player, it's best to hold out
> until the
> > trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player
> who's
> > blown out his knee 3 times.
> > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote: 
> > > 
> > How many question marks did we waste spots on last
> > season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens,
> > Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense
> of
> > POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is the best
> of
> > the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he could be
> > easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab
> prove
> > unsuccessful.
> > 
> > This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a
> non-question
> > mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't
> it be
> > easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or
> Giddens,
> > for example) before Powe?? We'll see how it plays
> out,
> > but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer
> for
> > the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based
> on
> > physical fitness.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > > question mark, when there are other players than
> can
> > > contribute immediately.
> > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come
> back to
> > haunt
> > > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that
> actively
> > > gauging Rondo's value around the league was right
> up
> > there
> > > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the
> original
> > Antoine
> > > trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend
> that:
> > > not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even
> making
> > him
> > > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad
> move
> > and
> > > might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad
> day
> > for
> > > Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB,
> Pruitt,
> > > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> > contribute
> > > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same
> > courtesy, even
> > > after he's shown he can actually play??
> Bullshit.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > By Mark Murphy
> > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for
> roster
> > space
> > > as they delve into the free agent market, have
> decided
> > to
> > > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > > 
> > > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> > 25-year-old
> > > forward following a conversation with President
> of
> > > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> > > 
> > > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee
> surgery,
> > did
> > > not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics
> by
> > the
> > > Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became
> an
> > > unrestricted free agent.
> > > 
> > > Five teams reportedly called with interest in
> the
> > power
> > > forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis
> and
> > > Orlando.
> > > 
> > > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want
> to
> > come
> > > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It
> was
> > just a
> > > wonderful place to play.?
> > > 
> > > Powe walked away from his conversation believing
> that
> > his
> > > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > > 
> > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he
> said of
> > > whether he got the sense the Celtics might be
> > interested in
> > > re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew
> they
> > > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just
> have
> > to
> > > move on.
> > > 
> > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of
> whether
> > his
> > > connection with the Celtics was finished. They
> told
> > me,
> > > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers)
> told
> > me that
> > > he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he
> could
> > to
> > > make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> yesterday
> > saying
> > > that they only have a two-year window, and I
> would be
> > taking
> > > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > > 
> > > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be
> interested
> > in
> > > signing Powe, though only after he recovers from
> knee
> > > surgery.
> > > 
> > > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon
> back
> > at any
> > > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > > 
> > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not
> surprised
> > when
> > > the qualifying offer didn?t come. But
> disappointment
> > is
> > > another matter.
> > > 
> > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> > because
> > > it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t
> want
> > people
> > > thinking that we?re looking for sympathy,
> because
> > Leon is
> > > going to play again. The Celtics are aware that
> he?s
> > ahead
> > > of schedule.?
> > > 
> > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics
> practice
> > > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles
> yesterday
> > to
> > > continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe
> has
> > > progressed so well that he might be able to
> return to
> > action
> > > by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
> > window for
> > > a return closer to February.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ? ? ? 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      


From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 12:46:48 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 8:46:48 -0400
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <949500.37449.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090703084648.120DF.156819.imail@eastrmwml30>

But Ryan, the debate is using a roster spot for an injured player vs healthy one.  Powe obviously is a better player, but you can't hold the spot for a possibility.  POB can at least play now.  That is my only point.  And very few agreee that we can afford to hold down a spont for only a possibility of Powe's return.  Just because he came back before, doesn't mean he will again, and how much of a guarantee is there that he won't re-injure it again.  They say three is a charm, but in this case it's a curse.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
It's not about him being a nice guy, though he is..it's about his PROVEN track record of NBA-ability.  He's also PROVEN to be able to come back from an ACL tear (and for the love of God, let's get the facts straight--he blew out his knee once in high school, and had 2 surgeries over the next year to correct the injury--his latest injury is his 2nd ACL tear).  He has the skill, he simply needs to recover from his latest injury.  

The biggest thing about recovering from injury is how one responds mentally and emotionally.  A guy like TA, it took him a long time to come back and he still may never come all the way back.  A guy like Powe, on the other hand, average 20 and 10 in college the year after surgery...  HE CAN COME BACK!  And he can do it next season...

The fascination with POB continues to amaze--some of this list were lamenting the fact last summer that we ONLY signed him for 2 seasons, or predicting that POB would take Perk's starting spot by midseason.  Oh, God!  

I'll say it again: Powe's 'potential' to recover from an injury he's already beaten once is far greater than POB's 'potential' to grow a pair of nuts and take advantage of his God given ability.  And it's not not even close.  It seems you'd rather fly in the face of 20 years of evidence (in this case, POB's record as a soft, lazy, non-competitor) than believe that Powe can recover from an injury that has become eminently easy to recover from, even with the knowledge of Powe's strong character, mental makeup, and worth ethic.  Ridiculous!

I understand the 'business' aspect of the decision just fine.  I just think from a basketball perspective signing Powe to a partially guaranteed 1 year deal at the minimum is a no-brainer.  The guys 'with potential' that will litter the end of our bench next season will be just that: 'guys with potential,' be it Robert Swift or POB or whomever.  Those guys hardly turn out.  If we're going to have a couple projects on the end of the bench, I'd rather bet--from a basketball standpoint--on the heart and will power of someone we've already come to know and love and NOT on the .00001 percent chance that high-ability, low work ethic players who go by the 'potential' moniker actually make something of themselves.  THAT's the dumb basketball decision, betting on guys who've never shown a willingness to take what they were given and to use it.  Those guys NEVER work out.  It's not about potential, it's about character and work ethic--and if you don't have that,
 you can't exactly wake up one morning and suddenly discover it within.

Ryan
--- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:20 PM
> I think POB would be a much better
> choice right now than Leon.? If I had to waste a roster
> spot on? July 2, 2009, I'd waste it on POB.? At
> least he can step onto the court and make some contribution,
> albeit minimal.? Leon can't out produce him, and may
> never in the future.? So, IMO yes, POB has more
> potential. But what you're overlooking is that was then and
> this is now.? Soemtimes you have to roll the dice with
> a player, but not? with loaded dice. At the time we
> signed POB we needed a long player to backup Perk, and POB
> was available.? Hindsight is 20-20 and it was evident
> that he didn't quite cut the proverbial mustard.?
> But? right now, there is no need to fill a spot with a
> player who can't and maybe never play. Offering a contract
> to a real nice guy just because he is a nice guy is not only
> a poor business decision, it's just outright
> ridiculous.? 
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> I guess we have a different understanding of
> potential.? Is the potential that POB grows a pair,
> adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct any greater
> or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from an injury
> that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable in the
> last 10 years? 
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> > Problem there is those 5 question
> > marks were healthy and had the potential to
> contribute
> > immediately .? Powe has no potential right now, so
> why
> > waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just for his
> family
> > values and what he did for his siblings.? That alone
> > earns him all my respect.? But ou can't hold a spot
> for
> > being a good guy.? The window is closing on the Big
> > Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for
> being
> > tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench
> > players?? Everyone is a year older, and we aren't
> > champs any longer.? It's time to bring in players
> who
> > can contribute immediately.? And besides, Allen is
> in
> > his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If
> there
> > is room for another player, it's best to hold out
> until the
> > trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player
> who's
> > blown out his knee 3 times.
> > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote: 
> > > 
> > How many question marks did we waste spots on last
> > season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens,
> > Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense
> of
> > POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is the best
> of
> > the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he could be
> > easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab
> prove
> > unsuccessful.
> > 
> > This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a
> non-question
> > mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't
> it be
> > easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or
> Giddens,
> > for example) before Powe?? We'll see how it plays
> out,
> > but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer
> for
> > the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based
> on
> > physical fitness.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > > question mark, when there are other players than
> can
> > > contribute immediately.
> > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come
> back to
> > haunt
> > > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that
> actively
> > > gauging Rondo's value around the league was right
> up
> > there
> > > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the
> original
> > Antoine
> > > trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend
> that:
> > > not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even
> making
> > him
> > > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad
> move
> > and
> > > might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad
> day
> > for
> > > Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB,
> Pruitt,
> > > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> > contribute
> > > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same
> > courtesy, even
> > > after he's shown he can actually play??
> Bullshit.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sports&position=0
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > By Mark Murphy
> > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for
> roster
> > space
> > > as they delve into the free agent market, have
> decided
> > to
> > > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > > 
> > > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> > 25-year-old
> > > forward following a conversation with President
> of
> > > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> > > 
> > > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee
> surgery,
> > did
> > > not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics
> by
> > the
> > > Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became
> an
> > > unrestricted free agent.
> > > 
> > > Five teams reportedly called with interest in
> the
> > power
> > > forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis
> and
> > > Orlando.
> > > 
> > > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want
> to
> > come
> > > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It
> was
> > just a
> > > wonderful place to play.?
> > > 
> > > Powe walked away from his conversation believing
> that
> > his
> > > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > > 
> > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he
> said of
> > > whether he got the sense the Celtics might be
> > interested in
> > > re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew
> they
> > > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just
> have
> > to
> > > move on.
> > > 
> > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of
> whether
> > his
> > > connection with the Celtics was finished. They
> told
> > me,
> > > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers)
> told
> > me that
> > > he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he
> could
> > to
> > > make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> yesterday
> > saying
> > > that they only have a two-year window, and I
> would be
> > taking
> > > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > > 
> > > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be
> interested
> > in
> > > signing Powe, though only after he recovers from
> knee
> > > surgery.
> > > 
> > > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon
> back
> > at any
> > > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > > 
> > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not
> surprised
> > when
> > > the qualifying offer didn?t come. But
> disappointment
> > is
> > > another matter.
> > > 
> > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> > because
> > > it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t
> want
> > people
> > > thinking that we?re looking for sympathy,
> because
> > Leon is
> > > going to play again. The Celtics are aware that
> he?s
> > ahead
> > > of schedule.?
> > > 
> > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics
> practice
> > > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles
> yesterday
> > to
> > > continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe
> has
> > > progressed so well that he might be able to
> return to
> > action
> > > by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
> > window for
> > > a return closer to February.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ? ? ? 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 14:57:30 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
Message-ID: <89774.53622.qm@web56701.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

True I did, Indeed Odom as you said is a rare breed that is a two way player that can defend the wings out to the PF position. For me I would include in my complimentary player wish list to Wallace, assuming we get Wallace, a very good strong two way SF that can play and defend the guard positions if needed.?
Go C's

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
To: "R Howe" <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 9:27 AM

We'd only be able to do this by unloading salary, and the Lakers woulnd't do that, or else they'd resign him.? Jus re-read your post.? You said an Odom type player, not specifically Odom.? Odom is an unusual breed- a very poor man's Magic Johnson.? He's like a 5 tool player, as he can spell time at 4 positions.? Who else is out there that can do that?? An old Grant Hill?? Maybe.? He might be the only Odom like player left.
---- R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> I am not a capologist but if the C's were able to get Wallace for the MLE/5.5mil per? what prevents the C's from offering, in addition to Wallace, the same for an Odom type player other than going deeper into the lux/tax threshold? If it is nothing but the double penalty of being taxed dollar for dollar spent then I believe the C's will have to do so if they realistically want to get into and past the ECFs and compete for a title or two during the Big three's 2 year window. Our direct EConf competition has already thrown down the gantlet in spending whatever it takes or signally a willingness to do so.?
> If just fielding a competitive playoff team (like this years) and a possible contender if our competition falters, then stop at Wallace and add cheaper filler players and hope one or more of Giddens, Walker, Hudson, Pruitt even TA (not) blossoms into a championship starting/6th player type player. Maybe a cheaper free agent -X signing develops into one. This would be a hope and a prayer strategy in my opinion and squander the opportunity that the next 2 years represent. I believe considering we only have the next two years of being this competitively close to the ring then the C's are going to have to pay deep lux dollars to make sure they are players at the table. Not my money I know and going out on the limb with that kind of money when injuries could make that money go down the drain without any payback a real risk. When it is not your money people like me sure make it sound easy when it is not. Thus I would understand if the owners would not let
>? Danny pursue such a strategy.
> Go C's ?
> 
> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "R Howe" <regmanw6 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 8:01 AM
> 
> Odom would have been my first choice, but he want's more than we can offer him.? I'm with Egg (must be a full moon) on McDyess over Wallace, but Wallace still would be a decent acquisition, warts and all.\ as he's a better offensive player and like McDyess, play two positons. Ariza may be headed to Houston and also out of our price range.? Seems like the Rockets who? from pie in the sky, to oat meal in just a week with Yao possibly out for another season and the loss of RA, not to mention the ever injured Tracy McGrady. Grant Hill, although over the Hill, is on Danny's radar screen, but that could be just talk.? Bruce Bowen could be had for cheap money, too.? And of course there is still Joe Smith who's name comes up every year for a lot of teams.
> ---- R Howe <regmanw6 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > Now that Artest is now De-test because he is a Laker, to me that sends a message to Odom and Ariza that the Lakers are not going to spend on them making one or both signable.?
> > I would like us to get Odom and Wallace, overspend/tax for this year and next, or same for Wallace/Ariza combo. Sign a competent scrub backup PG for min., Sign Davis, trade Scals expiring w/TA for a future second plus someones 2 year bad contract. ?Could sub a sign and trade Davis with that trade for something of minor value or future cap space if Swift is deemed healthy and ready to take a third string C/PF role.
> > Team would look something like this:
> > Perk/Rasheed/Swift ?Garnett/Odom or Ariza plus maybe PowePierce/WalkerR.A./House/Giddens or HudsonRhondo/Marberry/FA or Pruitt?
> > Makes for a great, scary flexible starting five and bench that could play D down low and on the wings plus score. This team could match up with anybody for the next 2 years.
> > The key is if the C's sign Wallace they also need to get an equally quality player that can score and defend multiple wing positions. The C's need to think primarily for this year and next, money be Darn'd. I trust Danny to be able to quickly blow up a team and rebuild after this period.
> > Go C's
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> > 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Trevor Ariza is not walking through that door
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:49 PM
> > 
> > I doubt it.? He wouldn't fit in-too many head cases on the Celtics.
> > ---- John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> > > He might change his mind now the lakers didn't make him an offer
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > Has said in no uncertain terms he hates the Celtics. But I like the? 
> > > > Bruce Bowen idea, long though he is in the tooth.
> > > >
> > > > I would have loved to have gotten Artest, I wonder if Danny at least? 
> > > > made a phone call. Oh wait, Ray, that's right, he's an idiot - of? 
> > > > course he didn't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ???
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 







      

From keltsfan at comcast.net  Fri Jul  3 15:35:46 2009
From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 08:35:46 -0700
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
In-Reply-To: <949500.37449.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <949500.37449.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005701c9fbf3$ef8fc050$ceaf40f0$@net>

Ryan,

Powe also blew out his knee again in college.  From what I recall, he missed his entire sophomore season.  This is his third major knee injury spread between two knees. While the track record is good for recovering from injury. The track record is horrendous when it comes to not getting injured in the first place.  It appears he has structural issues with the knees.  Not good when you earn your livelihood running and jumping on a hardwood court for the year. 

Ravi



> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:37 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> 
> 
> It's not about him being a nice guy, though he is..it's about his PROVEN track record of
> NBA-ability.  He's also PROVEN to be able to come back from an ACL tear (and for the
> love of God, let's get the facts straight--he blew out his knee once in high school, and had 2
> surgeries over the next year to correct the injury--his latest injury is his 2nd ACL tear).  He
> has the skill, he simply needs to recover from his latest injury.
> 
> The biggest thing about recovering from injury is how one responds mentally and
> emotionally.  A guy like TA, it took him a long time to come back and he still may never
> come all the way back.  A guy like Powe, on the other hand, average 20 and 10 in college
> the year after surgery...  HE CAN COME BACK!  And he can do it next season...
> 
> The fascination with POB continues to amaze--some of this list were lamenting the fact last
> summer that we ONLY signed him for 2 seasons, or predicting that POB would take Perk's
> starting spot by midseason.  Oh, God!
> 
> I'll say it again: Powe's 'potential' to recover from an injury he's already beaten once is far
> greater than POB's 'potential' to grow a pair of nuts and take advantage of his God given
> ability.  And it's not not even close.  It seems you'd rather fly in the face of 20 years of
> evidence (in this case, POB's record as a soft, lazy, non-competitor) than believe that Powe
> can recover from an injury that has become eminently easy to recover from, even with the
> knowledge of Powe's strong character, mental makeup, and worth ethic.  Ridiculous!
> 
> I understand the 'business' aspect of the decision just fine.  I just think from a basketball
> perspective signing Powe to a partially guaranteed 1 year deal at the minimum is a no-
> brainer.  The guys 'with potential' that will litter the end of our bench next season will be
> just that: 'guys with potential,' be it Robert Swift or POB or whomever.  Those guys hardly
> turn out.  If we're going to have a couple projects on the end of the bench, I'd rather bet--
> from a basketball standpoint--on the heart and will power of someone we've already come
> to know and love and NOT on the .00001 percent chance that high-ability, low work ethic
> players who go by the 'potential' moniker actually make something of themselves.  THAT's
> the dumb basketball decision, betting on guys who've never shown a willingness to take
> what they were given and to use it.  Those guys NEVER work out.  It's not about potential,
> it's about character and work ethic--and if you don't have that,
>  you can't exactly wake up one morning and suddenly discover it within.
> 
> Ryan
> --- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:20 PM
> > I think POB would be a much better
> > choice right now than Leon.? If I had to waste a roster
> > spot on? July 2, 2009, I'd waste it on POB.? At
> > least he can step onto the court and make some contribution,
> > albeit minimal.? Leon can't out produce him, and may
> > never in the future.? So, IMO yes, POB has more
> > potential. But what you're overlooking is that was then and
> > this is now.? Soemtimes you have to roll the dice with
> > a player, but not? with loaded dice. At the time we
> > signed POB we needed a long player to backup Perk, and POB
> > was available.? Hindsight is 20-20 and it was evident
> > that he didn't quite cut the proverbial mustard.?
> > But? right now, there is no need to fill a spot with a
> > player who can't and maybe never play. Offering a contract
> > to a real nice guy just because he is a nice guy is not only
> > a poor business decision, it's just outright
> > ridiculous.?
> > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > I guess we have a different understanding of
> > potential.? Is the potential that POB grows a pair,
> > adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct any greater
> > or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from an injury
> > that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable in the
> > last 10 years?
> >
> > Ryan
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> > > Problem there is those 5 question
> > > marks were healthy and had the potential to
> > contribute
> > > immediately .? Powe has no potential right now, so
> > why
> > > waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just for his
> > family
> > > values and what he did for his siblings.? That alone
> > > earns him all my respect.? But ou can't hold a spot
> > for
> > > being a good guy.? The window is closing on the Big
> > > Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the coals for
> > being
> > > tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing better bench
> > > players?? Everyone is a year older, and we aren't
> > > champs any longer.? It's time to bring in players
> > who
> > > can contribute immediately.? And besides, Allen is
> > in
> > > his last year and Garnett may not be 100% either. If
> > there
> > > is room for another player, it's best to hold out
> > until the
> > > trade deadline, not fill it with an unhealthy player
> > who's
> > > blown out his knee 3 times.
> > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > How many question marks did we waste spots on last
> > > season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB, Giddens,
> > > Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at the expense
> > of
> > > POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is the best
> > of
> > > the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he could be
> > > easily cut at little or no cost should his rehab
> > prove
> > > unsuccessful.
> > >
> > > This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has a
> > non-question
> > > mark to put in Powe's place--and even then, wouldn't
> > it be
> > > easier to remove other question marks (Pruitt or
> > Giddens,
> > > for example) before Powe?? We'll see how it plays
> > out,
> > > but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe an offer
> > for
> > > the veteran minimum, with a partial guarantee based
> > on
> > > physical fitness.
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > > > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > > > question mark, when there are other players than
> > can
> > > > contribute immediately.
> > > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going to come
> > back to
> > > haunt
> > > > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said that
> > actively
> > > > gauging Rondo's value around the league was right
> > up
> > > there
> > > > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders (the
> > original
> > > Antoine
> > > > trade being the greatest).? Well, let me amend
> > that:
> > > > not extending the QO to Powe, and then not even
> > making
> > > him
> > > > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is a bad bad
> > move
> > > and
> > > > might just rank up there with his worst.? Sad
> > day
> > > for
> > > > Cs fans today.? After carrying Cassell, POB,
> > Pruitt,
> > > > Giddens and Moore last season and watching them
> > > contribute
> > > > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon the same
> > > courtesy, even
> > > > after he's shown he can actually play??
> > Bullshit.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sp
> orts&position=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > > By Mark Murphy
> > > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Celtics [team stats], already strapped for
> > roster
> > > space
> > > > as they delve into the free agent market, have
> > decided
> > > to
> > > > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > > >
> > > > That, at least, is the impression left with the
> > > 25-year-old
> > > > forward following a conversation with President
> > of
> > > > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge yesterday.
> > > >
> > > > Powe, who is recovering from his third knee
> > surgery,
> > > did
> > > > not receive a qualifying offer from the Celtics
> > by
> > > the
> > > > Monday night deadline. As a result, Powe became
> > an
> > > > unrestricted free agent.
> > > >
> > > > Five teams reportedly called with interest in
> > the
> > > power
> > > > forward after midnight, including Miami, Memphis
> > and
> > > > Orlando.
> > > >
> > > > ?Of course I was disappointed, because I want
> > to
> > > come
> > > > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the fans. It
> > was
> > > just a
> > > > wonderful place to play.?
> > > >
> > > > Powe walked away from his conversation believing
> > that
> > > his
> > > > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > > >
> > > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like that,? he
> > said of
> > > > whether he got the sense the Celtics might be
> > > interested in
> > > > re-signing him later in the summer. ?I knew
> > they
> > > > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer), so I just
> > have
> > > to
> > > > move on.
> > > >
> > > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe said of
> > whether
> > > his
> > > > connection with the Celtics was finished. They
> > told
> > > me,
> > > > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc (Rivers)
> > told
> > > me that
> > > > he wanted me there, and he would do whatever he
> > could
> > > to
> > > > make sure I came back, but Danny came to me
> > yesterday
> > > saying
> > > > that they only have a two-year window, and I
> > would be
> > > taking
> > > > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > > >
> > > > Reached today, Ainge said he would still be
> > interested
> > > in
> > > > signing Powe, though only after he recovers from
> > knee
> > > > surgery.
> > > >
> > > > ?We love Leon, and would consider having Leon
> > back
> > > at any
> > > > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge said.
> > > >
> > > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were not
> > surprised
> > > when
> > > > the qualifying offer didn?t come. But
> > disappointment
> > > is
> > > > another matter.
> > > >
> > > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never surprised
> > > because
> > > > it?s a business,? said Goodwin. ?I don?t
> > want
> > > people
> > > > thinking that we?re looking for sympathy,
> > because
> > > Leon is
> > > > going to play again. The Celtics are aware that
> > he?s
> > > ahead
> > > > of schedule.?
> > > >
> > > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the Celtics
> > practice
> > > > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los Angeles
> > yesterday
> > > to
> > > > continue his comeback. According to Goodwin, Powe
> > has
> > > > progressed so well that he might be able to
> > return to
> > > action
> > > > by December. Powe said that doctors have put his
> > > window for
> > > > a return closer to February.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ? ? ?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ? ? ?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 16:33:35 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Iverson?
Message-ID: <58320.49797.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bucher reporting that there is little market for Iverson, and he is considering Memphis!

Could we sign him, if we don't Marbury, to a small 1-2 year deal?

Anthony Parker would be a nice replacement for Tony. We need a couple of the following

Wallace
McDyess
Iverson
Marbury
Parker
Pargo
Childress

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 17:30:41 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Marbury not returning, Cavs after Parker
Message-ID: <196832.77285.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cleveland after Anthony Parker, Pistons & 3 others after Big baby. Can the Lakers sign Odom after Artest?
Marbury not coming back after receiving poor offer.

Chdldress to opt out, he could be a big addition


http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba/


If we don't get Wallace do we go after Paul Millsap?

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 17:43:22 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe
Message-ID: <225140.11440.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have heard rumors Danny has stated he would like to resign Leon before training camp

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 17:59:59 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Salaries
Message-ID: <20545.55176.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A good sight showing Salaries. Lakers will be over $80M with Artest, could be over?$85M with Odom & Shannon Brown. Hey Wyc time to pony up , the lakers are in far worse position than we are.

They are paying bench players way wore than we are. I can see why Danny tried to get rid of Scal, and a few other contracts


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9168

From drivenkick43 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 18:02:40 2009
From: drivenkick43 at yahoo.com (Nathan A.)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off-season thoughts
Message-ID: <360647.29816.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Just throwing out my two cents:
Count me in the pro-Wallace camp. (Rasheed, not Chris). Looking at what made us champions in 2008 and what we're missing now, I think Rasheed can help a lot in those areas.
We lost: A power forward (James Posey) who can shoot the three and spread the floor for either Garnett inside or for Pierce/Rondo to drive. I think Wallace fills this role.
We lost: A long, sound, backup 4/5 (P.J. Brown) who can help defend a 4/5 when other teams go big, grab a key rebound, hit an elbow jumper, etc. Again I think Wallace can fill this spot.
We lost: A long, athletic defender (James Posey) who can match up with everythig from 2 guards to smaller 4s. Someone to defend James/Bryant. Obviously Rasheed does not fill this role. ?But count me out of any Bruce Bowen discussion. The dude is going to be 38 in a few days. His defensive reputation is more reputation than fact at this point. He is not the player/defender we remember him as. Just say no to Bruce.
So, in my green-colored mind, Rasheed can fill two of the three roles we lost with the departure of Posey and Brown, which is a good start.?Plus, I am not worried a bit about his behavior. Rasheed got 17 technicals last year, that's what 17 extra free throws spread out over 82 games? (BTW James Posey got 13 technicals last year). On the other hand, Rasheed seems to be a leader and loved by his teammates. Note the ridiculous pregame huddle shouting thing they do around him.
A question for you stil reading at this point. Being in Nebraska, I don't read a lot of the local Boston coverage. Most of my news comes from this list and watching every game on the League Pass. My question is this: How did Stephon do? Did he seem to enjoy his time with the C's? Get along with his teammates? Hard to tell by his emotionless visage on TV. What are the chances he A)wants to come back and B) We want him to come back?I would think we would want him basketball wise.?
Nathan A.


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Fri Jul  3 18:15:47 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:15:47 -0400
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <360647.29816.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090703141547.WDZVV.119678.imail@eastrmwml29>

Steph was a good soldier in Boston.  He gave the team no trouble and accepted his role as a backup pg.  He was obviously rusty from being out of service for over a year.  Had he been with the C's from the getgo, he'd have been a solid player for them.  He showed little on the defensive end, though wasn;t a liability, but he did show that he can still play the point.  He had a few games where he kept the C's in contention for a win, especially in the playoffs.   I would not have any problem signing him to another minimum contract, although I'm sure he's looking for a better deal.  Who will give him that deal remains to be seen.  but he was not the cancer that people thought he would be.
---- "Nathan A." <drivenkick43 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Just throwing out my two cents:
> Count me in the pro-Wallace camp. (Rasheed, not Chris). Looking at what made us champions in 2008 and what we're missing now, I think Rasheed can help a lot in those areas.
> We lost: A power forward (James Posey) who can shoot the three and spread the floor for either Garnett inside or for Pierce/Rondo to drive. I think Wallace fills this role.
> We lost: A long, sound, backup 4/5 (P.J. Brown) who can help defend a 4/5 when other teams go big, grab a key rebound, hit an elbow jumper, etc. Again I think Wallace can fill this spot.
> We lost: A long, athletic defender (James Posey) who can match up with everythig from 2 guards to smaller 4s. Someone to defend James/Bryant. Obviously Rasheed does not fill this role. ?But count me out of any Bruce Bowen discussion. The dude is going to be 38 in a few days. His defensive reputation is more reputation than fact at this point. He is not the player/defender we remember him as. Just say no to Bruce.
> So, in my green-colored mind, Rasheed can fill two of the three roles we lost with the departure of Posey and Brown, which is a good start.?Plus, I am not worried a bit about his behavior. Rasheed got 17 technicals last year, that's what 17 extra free throws spread out over 82 games? (BTW James Posey got 13 technicals last year). On the other hand, Rasheed seems to be a leader and loved by his teammates. Note the ridiculous pregame huddle shouting thing they do around him.
> A question for you stil reading at this point. Being in Nebraska, I don't read a lot of the local Boston coverage. Most of my news comes from this list and watching every game on the League Pass. My question is this: How did Stephon do? Did he seem to enjoy his time with the C's? Get along with his teammates? Hard to tell by his emotionless visage on TV. What are the chances he A)wants to come back and B) We want him to come back?I would think we would want him basketball wise.?
> Nathan A.
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 18:16:16 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:16:16 -0400
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <360647.29816.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <360647.29816.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180907031116y1697008dsa4cb94f9d73be15b@mail.gmail.com>

'Sheed will close a huge gap, rumors are that the C's are also after T.Lue
(PG). Since the C's walked away from Marb, I assume they already have a
backup plan for the vet minimum - or they are confident that Pruitt can
deliver.

Last weak spot is the backup 3 - unless Walker can play on the desired
level.

Bottom line, it looks like Danny will be able to deliver. Question remains
if it will be enough though. The Fakers got RonRon - some scary combination
with the Raper.... It will be much better team next season, I'm just curious
to see what they'll do with Odom: RonRon can play both 3/4, and is much
better player in both positions...

AG

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Nathan A. <drivenkick43 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just throwing out my two cents:
> Count me in the pro-Wallace camp. (Rasheed, not Chris). Looking at what
> made us champions in 2008 and what we're missing now, I think Rasheed can
> help a lot in those areas.
> We lost: A power forward (James Posey) who can shoot the three and spread
> the floor for either Garnett inside or for Pierce/Rondo to drive. I think
> Wallace fills this role.
> We lost: A long, sound, backup 4/5 (P.J. Brown) who can help defend a 4/5
> when other teams go big, grab a key rebound, hit an elbow jumper, etc. Again
> I think Wallace can fill this spot.
> We lost: A long, athletic defender (James Posey) who can match up with
> everythig from 2 guards to smaller 4s. Someone to defend James/Bryant.
> Obviously Rasheed does not fill this role.  But count me out of any Bruce
> Bowen discussion. The dude is going to be 38 in a few days. His defensive
> reputation is more reputation than fact at this point. He is not the
> player/defender we remember him as. Just say no to Bruce.
> So, in my green-colored mind, Rasheed can fill two of the three roles we
> lost with the departure of Posey and Brown, which is a good start. Plus, I
> am not worried a bit about his behavior. Rasheed got 17 technicals last
> year, that's what 17 extra free throws spread out over 82 games? (BTW James
> Posey got 13 technicals last year). On the other hand, Rasheed seems to be a
> leader and loved by his teammates. Note the ridiculous pregame huddle
> shouting thing they do around him.
> A question for you stil reading at this point. Being in Nebraska, I don't
> read a lot of the local Boston coverage. Most of my news comes from this
> list and watching every game on the League Pass. My question is this: How
> did Stephon do? Did he seem to enjoy his time with the C's? Get along with
> his teammates? Hard to tell by his emotionless visage on TV. What are the
> chances he A)wants to come back and B) We want him to come back?I would
> think we would want him basketball wise.
> Nathan A.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 18:50:04 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Marbury
Message-ID: <469605.56981.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


I'm bummed to read that, but I also detect a potential glimmer of hope: Marbury told the Globe he "doesn't expect to be returning to Boston." He didn't slam the door altogether. Danny should offer him a 2-year deal with the second year at Marbury's option; that way Steph can opt out and renegotiate or go elsewhere if he posts a strong season.

I just really don't see an option for backup PG that's nearly as attractive. Anthony Carter and Tyronn Lue are a big step down. 


      


From drivenkick43 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 19:50:19 2009
From: drivenkick43 at yahoo.com (Nathan A.)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off-season thoughts
Message-ID: <26246.53276.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the reply.I just read on Boston.com that we offered a 1-year minimum contract to Steph, and he said he is most likely not coming back. Of course, that could change. Is there anyone out there willing to offer him more? Has his seemingly good spirits in Boston tempered the league's perception of Steph? We'll see. I'd love to have him back in green.
Nathan A.?

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: off-season thoughts
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Cc: "Nathan A." <drivenkick43 at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 1:15 PM

Steph was a good soldier in Boston.? He gave the team no trouble and accepted his role as a backup pg.? He was obviously rusty from being out of service for over a year.? Had he been with the C's from the getgo, he'd have been a solid player for them.? He showed little on the defensive end, though wasn;t a liability, but he did show that he can still play the point.? He had a few games where he kept the C's in contention for a win, especially in the playoffs.???I would not have any problem signing him to another minimum contract, although I'm sure he's looking for a better deal.? Who will give him that deal remains to be seen.? but he was not the cancer that people thought he would be.
---- "Nathan A." <drivenkick43 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

> A question for you stil reading at this point. Being in Nebraska, I don't read a lot of the local Boston coverage. Most of my news comes from this list and watching every game on the League Pass. My question is this: How did Stephon do? Did he seem to enjoy his time with the C's? Get along with his teammates? Hard to tell by his emotionless visage on TV. What are the chances he A)wants to come back and B) We want him to come back?I would think we would want him basketball wise.?
> Nathan A.
> 
> 
>? ? ???
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics




      

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 20:39:43 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:39:43 -0400
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <26246.53276.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <26246.53276.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KM800DY84AG4IH2@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>

At 03:50 PM 7/3/2009, Nathan A. wrote:
>Thanks for the reply.I just read on Boston.com that we offered a 
>1-year minimum contract to Steph, and he said he is most likely not 
>coming back. Of course, that could change. Is there anyone out there 
>willing to offer him more? Has his seemingly good spirits in Boston 
>tempered the league's perception of Steph? We'll see. I'd love to 
>have him back in green.

It's not a matter of willingness it's a matter of ability. All we can 
offer FA is exception money or veteran min because we are over the 
cap. Sheed will take up full MLE and only other exception is 
biannual. Using that on Steph eliminates the chance of using it on 
anyone else. And that includes Big Baby BTW.
Kim


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 21:16:46 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:16:46 -0400
Subject: question re Leon
In-Reply-To: <8CBC9AA997D73EC-104C-203D@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CBC9AA997D73EC-104C-203D@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0KM8002056091X9D@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

At 12:05 AM 7/3/2009, douglas342 at aol.com wrote:
>OK, so Leon is now a free agent.  Do the Celtics continue to pay for 
>his medical care?  Is he on his own for rehab unless another team 
>picks him up and foots the bill?  Does a player in his position 
>likely have some sort of insurance to cover all or part of this 
>(salary and rehab)?

NBA has disability insurance available just like any other employer 
(it's in the CBA). And again as with any employer, there are options 
like COBRA available to extend insurance coverage if he doesn't still 
have it under the terms of his last premiums (he may pay annually for 
annual coverage). Specifics of those or anything beyond that are 
individual case and his knowledge and really his business.
Kim 


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 21:32:27 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:32:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
Message-ID: <863959.3240.qm@web110115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


I read one pundit opining that if Wallace doesn't come here, it will be not just because another team is willing to offer him more money but because he doesn't want to be a backup. I have no idea if that's true, of course, but if so I can imagine KG, Doc and Ainge trying to sell him on the idea of joining the classic pantheon of Celtics 6th men. The key thing there is minutes: if Sheed is the main backup to Perk and KG, he'll get plenty of touches. So where would that leave Baby?

Ideally I think you need four skilled bigs to make a championship run; look at the Pistons of recent vintage that had Rasheed and Ben Wallace, McDyess and Maxiell. (Or the Bad Boy Pistons that had Dumars, Rodman, Salley and James Edwards.) Baby also represents a hope for our future after the New Three are gone. But you're not gonna pay Davis big money and not play him much.

So here's my question on a holiday Friday: if you were Ainge, and the condition to signing Sheed was essentially to let Baby walk, what would you do? Davis likely has more future upside; but does Rasheed win you a championship this year? 
 


      


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 21:33:35 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off-season thoughts
Message-ID: <510135.45187.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Kim,
Your answer here ties into a prior thread that I posted and that is do the NBA rules prohibit the Celts from spending beyond exception dollars or vet min dollars even if they do not care the effect of the lux cap hit on the bottom line??
Go C's ?

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: off-season thoughts
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:39 PM

At 03:50 PM 7/3/2009, Nathan A. wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.I just read on Boston.com that we offered a 1-year minimum contract to Steph, and he said he is most likely not coming back. Of course, that could change. Is there anyone out there willing to offer him more? Has his seemingly good spirits in Boston tempered the league's perception of Steph? We'll see. I'd love to have him back in green.

It's not a matter of willingness it's a matter of ability. All we can offer FA is exception money or veteran min because we are over the cap. Sheed will take up full MLE and only other exception is biannual. Using that on Steph eliminates the chance of using it on anyone else. And that includes Big Baby BTW.
Kim

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 21:44:54 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
Message-ID: <479857.67453.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


It's a small point, but this is how I understand Leon's knee history:  He tore his ACL in high school when he was a junior.  He came back and played his senior year.  Then he went to Cal and had a pretty good freshman season.  The knee was still bothering him, however, from the first surgery and after the season the team physician recommended more surgery to strengthen the knee, so they did a bone graft and another reconstructive surgery, which caused him to miss the next season.  So, that's 3 surgeries in 2 years, all resulting from the same injury.  

I can understand why you might think that he suffered another ACL injury in college though--I've seen the story reported several places myself.  The problem is, it's not true.    

So, that's why I keep coming back to the point that's he's only blown out the knee TWICE.  And, as you can see from his history, he's proven that he can play successfully through pain and come back from multiple surgeries.  While it's possible there's a structural situation in that knee that's causing the injuries to continue, it's also possible that he had a substandard surgeon the first time, which later caused him another 2 surgeries to correct it.  Yet, fact remains, it's only been two blowouts, one in high school (eventually requiring three surgeries) and one last May.

For more information, check out: http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/columns/michaeldugan/060223.htm

Or: http://www.calbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/powe_leon00.html

Ryan

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: keltsfan <keltsfan at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 10:35 AM
> Ryan,
> 
> Powe also blew out his knee again in college.? From
> what I recall, he missed his entire sophomore season.?
> This is his third major knee injury spread between two
> knees. While the track record is good for recovering from
> injury. The track record is horrendous when it comes to not
> getting injured in the first place.? It appears he has
> structural issues with the knees.? Not good when you
> earn your livelihood running and jumping on a hardwood court
> for the year. 
> 
> Ravi
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:37 AM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > 
> > 
> > It's not about him being a nice guy, though he
> is..it's about his PROVEN track record of
> > NBA-ability.? He's also PROVEN to be able to come
> back from an ACL tear (and for the
> > love of God, let's get the facts straight--he blew out
> his knee once in high school, and had 2
> > surgeries over the next year to correct the
> injury--his latest injury is his 2nd ACL tear).? He
> > has the skill, he simply needs to recover from his
> latest injury.
> > 
> > The biggest thing about recovering from injury is how
> one responds mentally and
> > emotionally.? A guy like TA, it took him a long
> time to come back and he still may never
> > come all the way back.? A guy like Powe, on the
> other hand, average 20 and 10 in college
> > the year after surgery...? HE CAN COME
> BACK!? And he can do it next season...
> > 
> > The fascination with POB continues to amaze--some of
> this list were lamenting the fact last
> > summer that we ONLY signed him for 2 seasons, or
> predicting that POB would take Perk's
> > starting spot by midseason.? Oh, God!
> > 
> > I'll say it again: Powe's 'potential' to recover from
> an injury he's already beaten once is far
> > greater than POB's 'potential' to grow a pair of nuts
> and take advantage of his God given
> > ability.? And it's not not even close.? It
> seems you'd rather fly in the face of 20 years of
> > evidence (in this case, POB's record as a soft, lazy,
> non-competitor) than believe that Powe
> > can recover from an injury that has become eminently
> easy to recover from, even with the
> > knowledge of Powe's strong character, mental makeup,
> and worth ethic.? Ridiculous!
> > 
> > I understand the 'business' aspect of the decision
> just fine.? I just think from a basketball
> > perspective signing Powe to a partially guaranteed 1
> year deal at the minimum is a no-
> > brainer.? The guys 'with potential' that will
> litter the end of our bench next season will be
> > just that: 'guys with potential,' be it Robert Swift
> or POB or whomever.? Those guys hardly
> > turn out.? If we're going to have a couple
> projects on the end of the bench, I'd rather bet--
> > from a basketball standpoint--on the heart and will
> power of someone we've already come
> > to know and love and NOT on the .00001 percent chance
> that high-ability, low work ethic
> > players who go by the 'potential' moniker actually
> make something of themselves.? THAT's
> > the dumb basketball decision, betting on guys who've
> never shown a willingness to take
> > what they were given and to use it.? Those guys
> NEVER work out.? It's not about potential,
> > it's about character and work ethic--and if you don't
> have that,
> >? you can't exactly wake up one morning and
> suddenly discover it within.
> > 
> > Ryan
> > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:20 PM
> > > I think POB would be a much better
> > > choice right now than Leon.? If I had to waste
> a roster
> > > spot on? July 2, 2009, I'd waste it on POB.?
> At
> > > least he can step onto the court and make some
> contribution,
> > > albeit minimal.? Leon can't out produce him,
> and may
> > > never in the future.? So, IMO yes, POB has
> more
> > > potential. But what you're overlooking is that
> was then and
> > > this is now.? Soemtimes you have to roll the
> dice with
> > > a player, but not? with loaded dice. At the
> time we
> > > signed POB we needed a long player to backup
> Perk, and POB
> > > was available.? Hindsight is 20-20 and it was
> evident
> > > that he didn't quite cut the proverbial
> mustard.?
> > > But? right now, there is no need to fill a spot
> with a
> > > player who can't and maybe never play. Offering a
> contract
> > > to a real nice guy just because he is a nice guy
> is not only
> > > a poor business decision, it's just outright
> > > ridiculous.?
> > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > I guess we have a different understanding of
> > > potential.? Is the potential that POB grows a
> pair,
> > > adds 20 pounds, and develops a killer instinct
> any greater
> > > or lesser than Leon's potential to recover from
> an injury
> > > that has become almost 100% treatable and fixable
> in the
> > > last 10 years?
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career Over
> > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:10 PM
> > > > Problem there is those 5 question
> > > > marks were healthy and had the potential to
> > > contribute
> > > > immediately .? Powe has no potential right
> now, so
> > > why
> > > > waste the money.? Hey, I love Leon, just
> for his
> > > family
> > > > values and what he did for his siblings.?
> That alone
> > > > earns him all my respect.? But ou can't
> hold a spot
> > > for
> > > > being a good guy.? The window is closing
> on the Big
> > > > Three.? Wasn't the Brass raked over the
> coals for
> > > being
> > > > tight by not signing Posey, or grabbing
> better bench
> > > > players?? Everyone is a year older, and we
> aren't
> > > > champs any longer.? It's time to bring in
> players
> > > who
> > > > can contribute immediately.? And besides,
> Allen is
> > > in
> > > > his last year and Garnett may not be 100%
> either. If
> > > there
> > > > is room for another player, it's best to
> hold out
> > > until the
> > > > trade deadline, not fill it with an
> unhealthy player
> > > who's
> > > > blown out his knee 3 times.
> > > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > How many question marks did we waste spots
> on last
> > > > season?? I count at least 5--Cassell, POB,
> Giddens,
> > > > Pruitt, Walker, with Moore added later at
> the expense
> > > of
> > > > POB.? In terms of question marks, Powe is
> the best
> > > of
> > > > the bunch.? And, like Cassell and POB, he
> could be
> > > > easily cut at little or no cost should his
> rehab
> > > prove
> > > > unsuccessful.
> > > >
> > > > This move is ONLY justifiable if Danny has
> a
> > > non-question
> > > > mark to put in Powe's place--and even then,
> wouldn't
> > > it be
> > > > easier to remove other question marks
> (Pruitt or
> > > Giddens,
> > > > for example) before Powe?? We'll see how
> it plays
> > > out,
> > > > but I see no harm in AT LEAST extending Powe
> an offer
> > > for
> > > > the veteran minimum, with a partial
> guarantee based
> > > on
> > > > physical fitness.
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, martind42 at cox.net
> > > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: martind42 at cox.net
> > > > <martind42 at cox.net>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Powe Feels Celtics Career
> Over
> > > > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List"
> <celtics at igtc.com>
> > > > > Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
> > > > > Cana't waste a roster spot on a
> > > > > question mark, when there are other
> players than
> > > can
> > > > > contribute immediately.
> > > > > ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > Not extending the QO to Powe is going
> to come
> > > back to
> > > > haunt
> > > > > the Cs.? A couple days ago, I said
> that
> > > actively
> > > > > gauging Rondo's value around the league
> was right
> > > up
> > > > there
> > > > > with one of Ainge's greatest blunders
> (the
> > > original
> > > > Antoine
> > > > > trade being the greatest).? Well, let
> me amend
> > > that:
> > > > > not extending the QO to Powe, and then
> not even
> > > making
> > > > him
> > > > > feel welcome at the veteran minimum is
> a bad bad
> > > move
> > > > and
> > > > > might just rank up there with his
> worst.? Sad
> > > day
> > > > for
> > > > > Cs fans today.? After carrying
> Cassell, POB,
> > > Pruitt,
> > > > > Giddens and Moore last season and
> watching them
> > > > contribute
> > > > > almost nothing, we can't extend Leon
> the same
> > > > courtesy, even
> > > > > after he's shown he can actually
> play??
> > > Bullshit.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1182483&srvc=sp
> > orts&position=0
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Powe feels Celtics career over
> > > > > By Mark Murphy
> > > > > Wednesday, July 1, 2009
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Celtics [team stats], already
> strapped for
> > > roster
> > > > space
> > > > > as they delve into the free agent
> market, have
> > > decided
> > > > to
> > > > > part ways with Leon Powe.
> > > > >
> > > > > That, at least, is the impression left
> with the
> > > > 25-year-old
> > > > > forward following a conversation with
> President
> > > of
> > > > > Basketball Operations Danny Ainge
> yesterday.
> > > > >
> > > > > Powe, who is recovering from his third
> knee
> > > surgery,
> > > > did
> > > > > not receive a qualifying offer from the
> Celtics
> > > by
> > > > the
> > > > > Monday night deadline. As a result,
> Powe became
> > > an
> > > > > unrestricted free agent.
> > > > >
> > > > > Five teams reportedly called with
> interest in
> > > the
> > > > power
> > > > > forward after midnight, including
> Miami, Memphis
> > > and
> > > > > Orlando.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?Of course I was disappointed,
> because I want
> > > to
> > > > come
> > > > > back,? Powe said today. ?I love the
> fans. It
> > > was
> > > > just a
> > > > > wonderful place to play.?
> > > > >
> > > > > Powe walked away from his conversation
> believing
> > > that
> > > > his
> > > > > time as a Celtic was finished.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?I wasn?t feeling a vibe like
> that,? he
> > > said of
> > > > > whether he got the sense the Celtics
> might be
> > > > interested in
> > > > > re-signing him later in the summer.
> ?I knew
> > > they
> > > > > wouldn?t (offer a qualifying offer),
> so I just
> > > have
> > > > to
> > > > > move on.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?That?s what they told me,? Powe
> said of
> > > whether
> > > > his
> > > > > connection with the Celtics was
> finished. They
> > > told
> > > > me,
> > > > > ?Good luck with another team.? Doc
> (Rivers)
> > > told
> > > > me that
> > > > > he wanted me there, and he would do
> whatever he
> > > could
> > > > to
> > > > > make sure I came back, but Danny came
> to me
> > > yesterday
> > > > saying
> > > > > that they only have a two-year window,
> and I
> > > would be
> > > > taking
> > > > > up a roster spot for someone else.?
> > > > >
> > > > > Reached today, Ainge said he would
> still be
> > > interested
> > > > in
> > > > > signing Powe, though only after he
> recovers from
> > > knee
> > > > > surgery.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?We love Leon, and would consider
> having Leon
> > > back
> > > > at any
> > > > > time, once he gets healthy,? Ainge
> said.
> > > > >
> > > > > Powe and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, were
> not
> > > surprised
> > > > when
> > > > > the qualifying offer didn?t come.
> But
> > > disappointment
> > > > is
> > > > > another matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?I was disappointed, but I?m never
> surprised
> > > > because
> > > > > it?s a business,? said Goodwin.
> ?I don?t
> > > want
> > > > people
> > > > > thinking that we?re looking for
> sympathy,
> > > because
> > > > Leon is
> > > > > going to play again. The Celtics are
> aware that
> > > he?s
> > > > ahead
> > > > > of schedule.?
> > > > >
> > > > > Powe, who had been rehabbing at the
> Celtics
> > > practice
> > > > > facility in Waltham, arrived in Los
> Angeles
> > > yesterday
> > > > to
> > > > > continue his comeback. According to
> Goodwin, Powe
> > > has
> > > > > progressed so well that he might be
> able to
> > > return to
> > > > action
> > > > > by December. Powe said that doctors
> have put his
> > > > window for
> > > > > a return closer to February.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ? ? ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ? ? ?
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ? ? ?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


      


From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 21:46:13 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:46:13 -0700
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <3f0c87180907031116y1697008dsa4cb94f9d73be15b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <360647.29816.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<3f0c87180907031116y1697008dsa4cb94f9d73be15b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34DFD1A5-474D-46D9-85B0-14EACA99B28A@verizon.net>

Pargo is better than
Lue. Anthony Parker adds a big scorer

Don't be Surprised to see the lakers go after pargo



On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Alex Goldblatt <alex.goldblatt at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> 'Sheed will close a huge gap, rumors are that the C's are also after  
> T.Lue
> (PG). Since the C's walked away from Marb, I assume they already  
> have a
> backup plan for the vet minimum - or they are confident that Pruitt  
> can
> deliver.
>
> Last weak spot is the backup 3 - unless Walker can play on the desired
> level.
>
> Bottom line, it looks like Danny will be able to deliver. Question  
> remains
> if it will be enough though. The Fakers got RonRon - some scary  
> combination
> with the Raper.... It will be much better team next season, I'm just  
> curious
> to see what they'll do with Odom: RonRon can play both 3/4, and is  
> much
> better player in both positions...
>
> AG
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Nathan A. <drivenkick43 at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Just throwing out my two cents:
>> Count me in the pro-Wallace camp. (Rasheed, not Chris). Looking at  
>> what
>> made us champions in 2008 and what we're missing now, I think  
>> Rasheed can
>> help a lot in those areas.
>> We lost: A power forward (James Posey) who can shoot the three and  
>> spread
>> the floor for either Garnett inside or for Pierce/Rondo to drive. I  
>> think
>> Wallace fills this role.
>> We lost: A long, sound, backup 4/5 (P.J. Brown) who can help defend  
>> a 4/5
>> when other teams go big, grab a key rebound, hit an elbow jumper,  
>> etc. Again
>> I think Wallace can fill this spot.
>> We lost: A long, athletic defender (James Posey) who can match up  
>> with
>> everythig from 2 guards to smaller 4s. Someone to defend James/ 
>> Bryant.
>> Obviously Rasheed does not fill this role.  But count me out of any  
>> Bruce
>> Bowen discussion. The dude is going to be 38 in a few days. His  
>> defensive
>> reputation is more reputation than fact at this point. He is not the
>> player/defender we remember him as. Just say no to Bruce.
>> So, in my green-colored mind, Rasheed can fill two of the three  
>> roles we
>> lost with the departure of Posey and Brown, which is a good start.  
>> Plus, I
>> am not worried a bit about his behavior. Rasheed got 17 technicals  
>> last
>> year, that's what 17 extra free throws spread out over 82 games?  
>> (BTW James
>> Posey got 13 technicals last year). On the other hand, Rasheed  
>> seems to be a
>> leader and loved by his teammates. Note the ridiculous pregame huddle
>> shouting thing they do around him.
>> A question for you stil reading at this point. Being in Nebraska, I  
>> don't
>> read a lot of the local Boston coverage. Most of my news comes from  
>> this
>> list and watching every game on the League Pass. My question is  
>> this: How
>> did Stephon do? Did he seem to enjoy his time with the C's? Get  
>> along with
>> his teammates? Hard to tell by his emotionless visage on TV. What  
>> are the
>> chances he A)wants to come back and B) We want him to come back?I  
>> would
>> think we would want him basketball wise.
>> Nathan A.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
>> celtics at igtc.com
>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 21:47:21 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
Message-ID: <373523.23465.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


The Baby situation isn't tied to what happens with Rasheed, it's tied to what offers Baby's receives from around the league.  If another team signs him to a deal approaching the MLE level (5.8 million per or so), then he'll probably be let go.  If the offer sheet is less, maybe for 3-4 million, they'll probably match.  And if he doesn't receive any offers, I could see him settling for the qualifying offer.

Ryan

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Delevett <pdelevett at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:32 PM
> 
> I read one pundit opining that if Wallace doesn't come
> here, it will be not just because another team is willing to
> offer him more money but because he doesn't want to be a
> backup. I have no idea if that's true, of course, but if so
> I can imagine KG, Doc and Ainge trying to sell him on the
> idea of joining the classic pantheon of Celtics 6th men. The
> key thing there is minutes: if Sheed is the main backup to
> Perk and KG, he'll get plenty of touches. So where would
> that leave Baby?
> 
> Ideally I think you need four skilled bigs to make a
> championship run; look at the Pistons of recent vintage that
> had Rasheed and Ben Wallace, McDyess and Maxiell. (Or the
> Bad Boy Pistons that had Dumars, Rodman, Salley and James
> Edwards.) Baby also represents a hope for our future after
> the New Three are gone. But you're not gonna pay Davis big
> money and not play him much.
> 
> So here's my question on a holiday Friday: if you were
> Ainge, and the condition to signing Sheed was essentially to
> let Baby walk, what would you do? Davis likely has more
> future upside; but does Rasheed win you a championship this
> year? 
>  
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 22:00:41 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:00:41 -0400
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <510135.45187.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <510135.45187.qm@web56706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KM800AG781JI32I@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:33 PM 7/3/2009, R Howe wrote:
>Kim,
>Your answer here ties into a prior thread that I posted and that is 
>do the NBA rules prohibit the Celts from spending beyond exception 
>dollars or vet min dollars even if they do not care the effect of 
>the lux cap hit on the bottom line?

Two entirely separate issues, cap and tax. Cap is about what you can 
do, tax is about what you're willing to do beyond that.

Once you are over the cap, the only way to add outside players are 
basic trade or via FA is using an available exception (not all teams 
have the same exceptions available each year) or sign and trade or 
paying them the vet minimum (which is an exception in a way). Period.

They can otherwise SPEND more to extend / re-sign their own players 
but that's it.

While again, as I've said repeatedly they're already paying the 
luxury tax.  The only question there is how much. And I agree with 
their policy of being willing to pay with enough return vs just 
spending for the sake of spending. Now that we're a better team, it 
doesn't have to be as much benefit to be worth it, because small 
differences matter, vs back 3-4 years ago when everyone was having 
fits over it but there wasn't any point in overspending to get one 
player who would just leave you a higher level of mediocre.

Kim 


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 22:13:46 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:13:46 -0400
Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
In-Reply-To: <373523.23465.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <373523.23465.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KM800KNY8NCYWP3@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

At 05:47 PM 7/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:

>The Baby situation isn't tied to what happens with Rasheed, it's 
>tied to what offers Baby's receives from around the league.  If 
>another team signs him to a deal approaching the MLE level (5.8 
>million per or so), then he'll probably be let go.  If the offer 
>sheet is less, maybe for 3-4 million, they'll probably match.  And 
>if he doesn't receive any offers, I could see him settling for the 
>qualifying offer.

Actually that's incorrect. They need cap money to match with. And the 
only way to do that is to use one of their exceptions, either the 
early Bird or the MLE or biannual exception. And since the early Bird 
would require them to pay him the full MLE amount (it's the greater 
of 175% of his current salary or the full league average), which he's 
not worth, they either have to have a piece of MLE available to pay 
him with or get him to accept the biannual exception. Not likely. So 
using the full MLE on Sheed means he's likely gone. You've actually 
got it backward - if they sign Sheed the only way they match on Baby 
is for the full MLE because that's the only exception money left they 
can match with.
Kim


From bos3332 at woh.rr.com  Fri Jul  3 22:22:12 2009
From: bos3332 at woh.rr.com (Tony)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:22:12 -0400
Subject: Glen Davis?
Message-ID: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>

If we can't work something out with Glen Davis, is there a way we can do a sign and trade with whatever team he goes too? I know it depends on the team, but this way we can at least get something in return  and maybe move another contract on the team we do not want, Tony Allen or Scal.

What do you guys think?

Regards,
Tony


Tony Pinto
Sales & Leasing 
The Beerman Realty Co. -Commercial Real Estate & Development
11 W. Monument Building, Suite 800
Dayton, OH 45402
937-222-1285 ext. 111

From jlyell at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 22:28:37 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:28:37 -0700
Subject: Glen Davis?
In-Reply-To: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>
References: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>
Message-ID: <FBB8ACAA-3B1C-4613-A5A1-52F6A7ABEBCB@verizon.net>

Doubtful, unless they want to get rid of a salary

Chicago is trying this with Gordon for iverson



On Jul 3, 2009, at 3:22 PM, "Tony" <bos3332 at woh.rr.com>

  wrote:

> If we can't work something out with Glen Davis, is there a way we  
> can do a sign and trade with whatever team he goes too? I know it  
> depends on the team, but this way we can at least get something in  
> return  and maybe move another contract on the team we do not want,  
> Tony Allen or Scal.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
>
> Tony Pinto
> Sales & Leasing
> The Beerman Realty Co. -Commercial Real Estate & Development
> 11 W. Monument Building, Suite 800
> Dayton, OH 45402
> 937-222-1285 ext. 111
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  3 22:30:25 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright )
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:30:25 +0000
Subject: Hedo
Message-ID: <BLU102-DS74DBF653A0D6DD3608CD7D92C0@phx.gbl>

To the Blazers
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell.


From capomycap at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 22:31:45 2009
From: capomycap at gmail.com (George Meyer)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:31:45 -0700
Subject: Ariza
In-Reply-To: <478265.27822.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <478265.27822.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <253b689a0907031531o28697107p889493acd879f932@mail.gmail.com>

sooooo Ryan, because of a knee injury in February '09, Danny should be given
a pass for failing to improve the team in summer of 08? I guess the
grandiose and precious ideas that spout every minute in YOUR life are
unencumbered by the traditional direction of spacetime. Must be nice. That
said, signing Posey to a MLE would not have crippled our ability to sign a
FA in 09, it would simply require we... wait for it... Spend More Money!
Which is what you do when you have a title contender. Unless, of course, you
and Danny Ainge are running the team... or selling eggs... or chickens... or
whatever that whole last thing was supposed to be.


On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> The problem with your line of thinking is that you view each offseason as a
> discreet entity and fail to realize that what you do this season effects
> what you can do next season and the season after that.
>
> The problem with you and your like is the classic myopic Internet fan boy
> attitude of 'what have you done for me lately,' a refrain that no doubt
> rings out every fucking minute of your life as you fail to see the big
> picture for want of the grandiose and precious ideas that sprout minute by
> minute in your brain, each one unconnected to the other except by place of
> origin.  I ask you again, what would you have done?  Other than going back
> in time and convincing KG to have his bone spurs removed in the offseason
> (and thus go against all medical opinions at that time), there's NOTHING
> Danny could have done to bring home another championship in 2009.  He knew
> then, as he does now, that regardless of what he adds on the periphery, our
> championship aspiration begin and end with the health of our starting five.
>
> He also knows how to put reasonable value on free agents.  As such, he
> valued the free agent market of 2008 as a seller's market and the free agent
> market of 2009 as a buyer's market.  He also correctly noted that MUCH, MUCH
> more talent was available during the buyer's market than the seller's
> market.  Yet here you come along, crying about James Posey and why we didn't
> waste our money on him, when it's plain to just about everyone that not only
> would James Posey have done NOTHING to improve our championship chances last
> season, his signing would have basically PARALYZED our ability to add anyone
> of note with the MLE either this summer or next, thereby unnaturally
> limiting an already shortening window.  But, yeah, sure, fall back on the
> utterly naive argument that when you have a chance to win a championship you
> have to add good pricey players and not subtract them, and thereby
> completely put every one of your shiny precious eggs in the same fucking
>  basket, never thinking about next year, or the year after that, and how
> you might want to set aside some of those eggs just in case you fall on your
> ass on the way to market.  But, hell, you had a CHANCE to sell everyone of
> those eggs, so I guess it was worth the risk of falling on your ass and
> busting yoke on the country side.  Luckily for us, Danny's a better farmer
> than THAT and when his chickens come home to roost, it won't be because he
> bet the farm on a single season's end result.
>
> Ryan
> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Ariza
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 8:23 PM
> > Uhhm, Ryan? The difference between us
> > and the Knicks, as you might consult a
> > basketball almanac to discover, is that the Knicks have not
> > been called upon
> > to defend a title in over thirty five years, and those
> > terrible "high high
> > risk" players that plauged their cap during the Isiah years
> > were the
> > accumulated detrius of a failed rebuilding effort. You see,
> > unlike the
> > Knicks, we won a title. We had (and maybe HAVE) a chance to
> > win more.
> > Generally this means that adding good, pricey players is
> > likely to aid the
> > effort, not detract from it. Not to mention keeping a key
> > sixth man who
> > (according to Doc Rivers) provided a significant
> > character/locker room role,
> > something Danny has constantly undervalued.
> >
> > As for my lack of intelligence and naive-ty, you can sling
> > as much sh-t as
> > you want, it doesn't change the fact that Danny's
> > propensity for making
> > low-ball offerings to free agents and making public
> > pronouncements about how
> > "we are a team of three stars" has not helped the team
> > improve its
> > reputation as a landing spot for potential FA's. Mind you,
> > he claimed that
> > this was a major goal of his when he took over the team.
> > And tell me Ryan,
> > what happens when your shiny new MLE player is Dahntey
> > Jones and Fabricio
> > Oberto?
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > George, what exactly would you have him do?  You
> > identified the problem,
> > > but your conclusion is naive, and completely ignores
> > market demands or
> > > practically any long term thinking beyond the here and
> > now.  Yes, almost our
> > > entire salary cap is filled by 3 aging
> > Hall-of-Famers.  As such, it seems
> > > wise to be a little prudent when it comes to filling
> > out the rest of the
> > > roster--with little money to spend, low-salaried
> > rookies and bargain
> > > basement free agent signings represent the safest
> > investments and allow the
> > > greatest flexibility going forward as the Big 3 age,
> > flexibility which is
> > > paramount given their age, susceptibility to injury,
> > and high salaries.
> > >  But, if I'm reading you right, you'd rather we
> > were the NY Knicks, who have
> > > consistently sold their salary cap flexibility to sign
> > high risk high reward
> > > players almost every season without fail.  That
> > hasn't exactly worked out,
> > > but, at least to you and your logic, it shows the
> > willingness to win.  But
> > >  success takes more than will--it takes a little
> > intelligence, something
> > > you can't seem to understand.
> > >
> > > Fact is, the plan ALL ALONG was the sit out the summer
> > of 2008 free agent
> > > sweepstakes.  Danny identified that summer as
> > being low in free agent talent
> > > while at the same time being a seller's market.
> > Why buy high in a low
> > > quality store?  Especially when you can wait a
> > year and buy low in a high
> > > quality store.  That was the plan and if you wait
> > a month you'll see a shiny
> > > new MLE-level player staring you in the face.
> > What will you say then?  That
> > > you'd still rather be overpaying a lesser player
> > (Posey) instead of
> > > underpaying a better player (possibly Rasheed
> > Wallace), even when the risk
> > > of waiting a year to spend on the bench was basically
> > nullified by Garnett's
> > > season-ending injury?
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The problem, as I see it, is that Danny has
> > thrown $56
> > > > million at our "big
> > > > three," yet won't extend anything beyond scraps
> > to support
> > > > them. The
> > > > difference between our third highest paid player
> > (in 08/09)
> > > > Ray Allen, and
> > > > our 4th highest paid player Perkins is something
> > like 13
> > > > million dollars.
> > > > With the exception of exceptional rookie-salaried
> > players
> > > > (ie: Rondo), that
> > > > money disparity reflects how little talent we
> > have beyond
> > > > the big three, and
> > > > how ownership has failed to commit the necessary
> > resources
> > > > to supporting
> > > > them in pursuit of another title (not mere
> > "relevancy"). In
> > > > my opinion,
> > > > Danny shamed the franchise by letting a key
> > component of a
> > > > championship team
> > > > go (Posey), and trying to replace him with a
> > trainwreck
> > > > like Tony Allen. As
> > > > for bolstering our playoff run with the likes of
> > Mikki
> > > > Moore, that speaks
> > > > for itself.
> > > >
> > > > (and I would note, the original composition of
> > our
> > > > title-winning team was a
> > > > lucky strike, wherein Posey, House and PJ Brown,
> > > > essentially, just happened
> > > > to be there. You don't always get lucky like
> > that, and when
> > > > you do, you
> > > > should be smart enough to hold onto the player
> > combinations
> > > > that have proven
> > > > to work, not arrogantly posturing about having
> > three stars
> > > > who everyone else
> > > > should be happy to play with for minimum NBA
> > wage)
> > > >
> > > > As for Trader-Danny, your confusion seems to be
> > your own. I
> > > > was simply
> > > > indicating the unlikelihood of the Celtics as
> > currently
> > > > construed being any
> > > > kind of a player in the '10 Free Agency market,
> > via signing
> > > > or sign-n-trade,
> > > > regardless of what our beloved team owner
> > carelessly opines
> > > > in the mass
> > > > media. However, since the usual "Danny's an
> > idiot"/"how can
> > > > you doubt Danny
> > > > he got us Garnett so maybe he'll get us Dwyane
> > Wade and
> > > > Chris Bosh"
> > > > arguement will demean us to the level of a
> > typical
> > > > Celticsblog forum
> > > > discussion, I'll relent and give it to you -
> > you're right,
> > > > anything can
> > > > happen.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Eric Albert
> > <Eric at ericalbert.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >saying "show me the money" to Danny
> > Ainge is like
> > > > trying to build a
> > > > > >functional rocketship with popsicle
> > sticks. Which
> > > > is to say, you won't get
> > > > > >very far. Unless, of course, your idea
> > of "money"
> > > > is a pro-rated
> > > > > >non-guarenteed 1year veteran's minimum.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm confused -- in what way are Danny or the
> > Celtics
> > > > cheap? We currently
> > > > > have
> > > > > the fifth highest payroll in the league,
> > only 5%
> > > > (chump change) behind the
> > > > > highest:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/06/new_orleans_could_spend_up_to.html
> > > > >
> > > > > >Odom would be a cool get for the C's,
> > but I'm
> > > > convinced that Danny and Wyc
> > > > > >are trying to thread the needle on 09/10
> > in order
> > > > to flail around in the
> > > > > >sign-n-trade market of '10. We'll be
> > offering up
> > > > Billy Walker (and picks!)
> > > > > >for LeBron, that kinda thing, going home
> > empty
> > > > handed in the most noble
> > > > > >fashion (cheer-led by Mr. Spears,
> > naturally).
> > > > Meanwhile, we'll content
> > > > > >ourselves with Oberto and whatever other
> > marginal
> > > > NBA'er we can find with
> > > > > >bills to pay and the superficial
> > skill-set
> > > > to address our many gaping
> > > > > holes
> > > > > >(ie: a bench, and someone to replace KG
> > when he
> > > > goes down again in April).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm even more confused -- isn't this the
> > same Danny
> > > > who successfully traded
> > > > > for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, resulting
> > in a
> > > > championship? Wouldn't that
> > > > > be the best set of trades in recent NBA
> > history?
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see complaining (some) about Danny's
> > free-agent
> > > > signings. But saying
> > > > > he can't trade? I don't get it.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Eric
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > > celtics at igtc.com
> > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From Eric at ericalbert.net  Fri Jul  3 22:35:27 2009
From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:35:27 -0400
Subject: Ariza
Message-ID: <20090703223550.11A38E1A73C@ignite.igtc.com>


>George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>sooooo Ryan, because of a knee injury in February '09, Danny should be given
>a pass for failing to improve the team in summer of 08? I guess the
>grandiose and precious ideas that spout every minute in YOUR life are
>unencumbered by the traditional direction of spacetime.

I gather you and Ryan know each other from some other venue, given the
instant mutual animosity. Would it be possible for both of you to state
your Celtics thoughts (as strongly as you wish) *without* personally
attacking each other? I'd appreciate it.

-- Eric


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 22:40:08 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:40:08 -0400
Subject: Glen Davis?
In-Reply-To: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>
References: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>
Message-ID: <0KM8006X39VCZW67@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>

At 06:22 PM 7/3/2009, Tony wrote:
>If we can't work something out with Glen Davis, is there a way we 
>can do a sign and trade with whatever team he goes too? I know it 
>depends on the team, but this way we can at least get something in 
>return  and maybe move another contract on the team we do not want, 
>Tony Allen or Scal.

Only if it's someone willing to take him for full MLE money or he is 
willing to sign for biannual money to play elsewhere, both unlikely. 
We STILL have to have space under the cap to sign him, even if we 
only sign him to trade him. And if we use MLE $ to sign him, even if 
it's just to trade him, we've still used some of our MLE money and so 
can't use it elsewhere. Not likely. Sign and trade is basically a way 
of letting a team pay a FA more than they could otherwise because his 
old team usually has a way to offer him more. That's not really the case here.
Kim 


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 23:35:31 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:35:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
Message-ID: <126089.42958.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


So, you're saying that IF we sign Rasheed with the MLE, and then Baby gets signed to an offer sheet of 3 million per (which is about what he's worth) or something like that, we can't possibly match that?  That doesn't seem fair.  It sounds like you're saying that either we sign him with his Early Bird Rights, which amounts to MLE money, or we sign him to his QO, which is 125% of his last salary.  But, under no circumstances, can we sign him for some figure between the QO and the MLE, unless we dip into the Biannual exception?

It would make sense to me that if another team signed Baby for something under MLE (like the 3 million I threw out above), that we should be able to use his Early Bird Rights to match that offer, even though it wasn't for the full MLE-money.  The reason being that the EBR was designed to allow teams to keep their own free agents and, by matching another team's offer, we'd be fulfilling the spirit of that exception.  

But, if the above is correct, it actually encourages other teams to offer Baby something below the MLE (but not at it), since such an offer, if signed by Baby, would be impossible for the Cs to match, because they're currently over the cap.  

Ryan



--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Sheed vs. Baby
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>, "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 5:13 PM
> At 05:47 PM 7/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:
> 
> > The Baby situation isn't tied to what happens with
> Rasheed, it's tied to what offers Baby's receives from
> around the league.? If another team signs him to a deal
> approaching the MLE level (5.8 million per or so), then
> he'll probably be let go.? If the offer sheet is less,
> maybe for 3-4 million, they'll probably match.? And if
> he doesn't receive any offers, I could see him settling for
> the qualifying offer.
> 
> Actually that's incorrect. They need cap money to match
> with. And the only way to do that is to use one of their
> exceptions, either the early Bird or the MLE or biannual
> exception. And since the early Bird would require them to
> pay him the full MLE amount (it's the greater of 175% of his
> current salary or the full league average), which he's not
> worth, they either have to have a piece of MLE available to
> pay him with or get him to accept the biannual exception.
> Not likely. So using the full MLE on Sheed means he's likely
> gone. You've actually got it backward - if they sign Sheed
> the only way they match on Baby is for the full MLE because
> that's the only exception money left they can match with.
> Kim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 00:15:20 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:15:20 -0400
Subject: Sheed vs. Baby
In-Reply-To: <126089.42958.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <126089.42958.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KM8001QFEA6CQ4G@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 07:35 PM 7/3/2009, Ryan W wrote:

>So, you're saying that IF we sign Rasheed with the MLE, and then 
>Baby gets signed to an offer sheet of 3 million per (which is about 
>what he's worth) or something like that, we can't possibly match 
>that?  That doesn't seem fair.  It sounds like you're saying that 
>either we sign him with his Early Bird Rights, which amounts to MLE 
>money, or we sign him to his QO, which is 125% of his last 
>salary.  But, under no circumstances, can we sign him for some 
>figure between the QO and the MLE, unless we dip into the Biannual exception?

No, you've got some of what I said but you're embellishing it too much.

I didn't say under no circumstances, I just said if you use the MLE 
money on him you can't use it on anyone else. And that's fair.

And you can't "dip into" or combine the Biannual exception with 
anything else, nor did I suggest that you could. You use it or you 
don't, on one player.

Bottom line is, to sign any player, you've got to have available 
money under the salary cap rules. That's where any discussion begins. 
And those are the ones we have.
We can pay Baby according to his accepting the qualifying offer made 
(and BTW he counts against our cap for that figure until it is signed 
or no longer valid),which was made before he was actually a FA and so 
qualified as re-signing our own player just as an extension would, or 
we can pay him **as a FA*** even if it's a restricted FA, through an 
available exception - MLE, BiAnnual, Vet minimum, Early Bird.  Most 
likely option because of price (and yes, I agree on his value) is 
MLE. And once use MLE money on Baby, we can't use it on someone else, 
and vice versa.

>It would make sense to me that if another team signed Baby for 
>something under MLE (like the 3 million I threw out above), that we 
>should be able to use his Early Bird Rights to match that offer, 
>even though it wasn't for the full MLE-money.  The reason being that 
>the EBR was designed to allow teams to keep their own free agents 
>and, by matching another team's offer, we'd be fulfilling the spirit 
>of that exception.

Great, but it doesn't work that way. Look, Early Bird rights aren't 
just in some broad sense a way to let teams keep their own players, 
they were set up to give them another specific, limited option to go 
over the cap to keep certain unexpectedly valuable players not 
eligible for full Bird rights ****who have become FA***** - i.e. 
basically 2nd rounders who blossom big time and are looking for FA 
offers or who do so too late to have been extended- while also 
providing the player some protection on how much money he will end up 
making despite the possibly limiting factor on offers of his team's 
being able to match outside offers. If we weren't over the cap it 
would be a non-issue. And if we weren't planning to spend the entire 
MLE elsewhere it wouldn't be either. *shrug* they could have tried to 
extend him before he became a FA and it would have been a non-issue too.

>But, if the above is correct, it actually encourages other teams to 
>offer Baby something below the MLE (but not at it), since such an 
>offer, if signed by Baby, would be impossible for the Cs to match, 
>because they're currently over the cap.

No, we can still match it so long as we don't spend the MLE elsewhere 
or consider him worth the Early Bird amount. Being a GM is supposed 
to be about making decisions, not just having things handed to 
you.It's the fact that we're planning to spend the whole MLE 
elsewhere and he's not worth the full MLE that are very specific to this case.
Kim 


From capomycap at gmail.com  Sat Jul  4 00:44:21 2009
From: capomycap at gmail.com (George Meyer)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:44:21 -0700
Subject: Ariza
In-Reply-To: <20090703223550.11A38E1A73C@ignite.igtc.com>
References: <20090703223550.11A38E1A73C@ignite.igtc.com>
Message-ID: <253b689a0907031744q71614025r9a853bb23d48190e@mail.gmail.com>

as far as I know, I've never spoke with Ryan before, so my animus is
entirely reactive. Perhaps he's confusing me with someone else, or maybe
he's a Family Guy fan. In either case, I'd appreciate it if you directed the
message at the guy slinging the insults, not the one responding to them.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Eric Albert <Eric at ericalbert.net> wrote:

>
> >George Meyer <capomycap at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >sooooo Ryan, because of a knee injury in February '09, Danny should be
> given
> >a pass for failing to improve the team in summer of 08? I guess the
> >grandiose and precious ideas that spout every minute in YOUR life are
> >unencumbered by the traditional direction of spacetime.
>
> I gather you and Ryan know each other from some other venue, given the
> instant mutual animosity. Would it be possible for both of you to state
> your Celtics thoughts (as strongly as you wish) *without* personally
> attacking each other? I'd appreciate it.
>
> -- Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  4 00:57:26 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trust in danny
In-Reply-To: <mailman.104.1246666847.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.104.1246666847.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <875244.75035.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

look, i know everyone is anxious to get this all over, to lock down the roster in early july, but it's chess, not checkers. speculate all you want, but don't say danny's a dumbshit for not signing ariza or odom or whoever, because most of us have no idea what he's trying to work out and the cap complexities therein. 

i think the guy has earned our trust. sure, i'd love for him to sign baby and wallace and parker and marbury and powe and whoever today, but that's not how it all works. i think when we look at the roster in the fall, we'll see a pretty damn good team poised to get the title back. 


      

From martind42 at cox.net  Sat Jul  4 01:36:40 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:36:40 -0400
Subject: trust in danny
In-Reply-To: <875244.75035.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090703213640.F1U7Y.163993.imail@eastrmwml34>

Absolutely.  There are financial regulations that must be abided by.  It's easy to say that he should sign this guy or that one, but as Kim has pointed out many times, there are NBA legal restrictions, namely caps.  And then there are luxury taxes.  Contracts of present players make the chess game, as you call it, difficult as well. We made a huge move to win a championship last year, and still keep our team competitive in the future.  If Danny's job was so easy, we'd all be doing it.  Arm chair general and Monday morning quarterbacks are very easy positions to fill.  GMs are not.
---- steve knight <stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> look, i know everyone is anxious to get this all over, to lock down the roster in early july, but it's chess, not checkers. speculate all you want, but don't say danny's a dumbshit for not signing ariza or odom or whoever, because most of us have no idea what he's trying to work out and the cap complexities therein. 
> 
> i think the guy has earned our trust. sure, i'd love for him to sign baby and wallace and parker and marbury and powe and whoever today, but that's not how it all works. i think when we look at the roster in the fall, we'll see a pretty damn good team poised to get the title back. 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From alex.goldblatt at gmail.com  Sat Jul  4 01:42:36 2009
From: alex.goldblatt at gmail.com (Alex Goldblatt)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:42:36 -0400
Subject: off-season thoughts
In-Reply-To: <0KM800DY84AG4IH2@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <26246.53276.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<0KM800DY84AG4IH2@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <3f0c87180907031842m46e944a6g1612772cfbcbe3d6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sceptical re Baby: it's enough to find a team offering more than
10MM/3yrs to lose him. And - I'm not really all that concerned.... To me -
I'd rather have 'Sheed and Leon joining later this year to cover the 4/5
spots. He's overrated at this point, like any other one-season-wonder
over-achiever in the league. He did well playing for an A+ team, not the
same like playing any place else.

AG

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Kim Malo <kmalo17 at verizon.net> wrote:

> At 03:50 PM 7/3/2009, Nathan A. wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply.I just read on Boston.com that we offered a 1-year
>> minimum contract to Steph, and he said he is most likely not coming back. Of
>> course, that could change. Is there anyone out there willing to offer him
>> more? Has his seemingly good spirits in Boston tempered the league's
>> perception of Steph? We'll see. I'd love to have him back in green.
>>
>
> It's not a matter of willingness it's a matter of ability. All we can offer
> FA is exception money or veteran min because we are over the cap. Sheed will
> take up full MLE and only other exception is biannual. Using that on Steph
> eliminates the chance of using it on anyone else. And that includes Big Baby
> BTW.
> Kim
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From cecilw45 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  4 02:26:20 2009
From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:26:20 -0300
Subject: Not So Fast
In-Reply-To: <196832.77285.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <196832.77285.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W24E059B56C2D59AA19DE95D92D0@phx.gbl>



I just heard a report claiming that Hedo has backed out of the deal the Blazers thought they had in place with him.  Instead, he appears to be headed to Toronto as they are offering a total of $50M, but they are trying to make a few guys disappear.

 

Cecil

 

 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582

From bos3332 at woh.rr.com  Sat Jul  4 02:52:33 2009
From: bos3332 at woh.rr.com (Tony)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:52:33 -0400
Subject: Glen Davis?
References: <000801c9fc2c$b6dc47e0$658c4347@TPinto>
	<0KM8006X39VCZW67@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <028c01c9fc52$7afc9060$658c4347@TPinto>

Thanks for the explanation.

Tony

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>; "Celtics" 
<celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Glen Davis?


> At 06:22 PM 7/3/2009, Tony wrote:
>>If we can't work something out with Glen Davis, is there a way we can do a 
>>sign and trade with whatever team he goes too? I know it depends on the 
>>team, but this way we can at least get something in return  and maybe move 
>>another contract on the team we do not want, Tony Allen or Scal.
>
> Only if it's someone willing to take him for full MLE money or he is 
> willing to sign for biannual money to play elsewhere, both unlikely. We 
> STILL have to have space under the cap to sign him, even if we only sign 
> him to trade him. And if we use MLE $ to sign him, even if it's just to 
> trade him, we've still used some of our MLE money and so can't use it 
> elsewhere. Not likely. Sign and trade is basically a way of letting a team 
> pay a FA more than they could otherwise because his old team usually has a 
> way to offer him more. That's not really the case here.
> Kim
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics 


From jaims at pldtdsl.net  Sat Jul  4 07:24:39 2009
From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 15:24:39 +0800
Subject: Not So Fast
In-Reply-To: <BLU102-W24E059B56C2D59AA19DE95D92D0@phx.gbl>
References: <196832.77285.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
	<BLU102-W24E059B56C2D59AA19DE95D92D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001001c9fc78$7e4c3b50$7ae4b1f0$@net>

tsk tsk, karma karma...portland just got bamboozered!!! lol



-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Cecil Wright
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:26 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Not So Fast



I just heard a report claiming that Hedo has backed out of the deal the
Blazers thought they had in place with him.  Instead, he appears to be
headed to Toronto as they are offering a total of $50M, but they are trying
to make a few guys disappear.

 

Cecil

 

 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From regmanw6 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  4 11:48:55 2009
From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 04:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Glen Davis?
Message-ID: <662449.46437.qm@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Kim, thanks also, I know you have explained these things many times in the past.
I guess the real answer to my question of if the C's or any team, as it seems that some teams are trying to do, wanted to go WAY beyond the cap to fill out their team for getting to the next level or to make existing overpaid/cap stuffing stars happy with better players or top tier teams that want to upgrade with a different player or two - they Cant. It is just not enough to have positions open to then outbid others for a player-x even if they were not afraid of lux tax or bottom line for a year or two; the league thru these mandated payment tiers only allow teams to really overpay for 2-4 players then the rest of the team has to be rookie scale, vet mins or various other specified number of contract types. It seems to make only the top tier or perceived top tier players players winners and everyone else striving to put themselves into a position to be an overpaid (compared to their peers) player. This system makes it hard for any team to build a
 championship team unless they get lucky enough to draft a legit superstar to build around with a couple of good to allstar level players as the system allows. (Kobe, Duncan, Original Shaq team ect) Teams like the C's need to have have drafted a 2nd tier franchise player and surround them with a couple of other vet near past prime allstar level players thru constantly treading water via trades, draft/player development and begging for the leftovers in FA.?
Oh well I guess the league does not want the NY, LAs, Chi to be the constant winners but I really do not see this system to be that great. A hard cap to me would solve a lot of these issues but I know the players, unions and owners all have vested interests to never have one.?
Good Luck Danny, Go C's ?
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Tony <bos3332 at woh.rr.com> wrote:

From: Tony <bos3332 at woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Glen Davis?
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the explanation.

Tony

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Malo" <kmalo17 at verizon.net>
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>; "Celtics" <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Glen Davis?


> At 06:22 PM 7/3/2009, Tony wrote:
>> If we can't work something out with Glen Davis, is there a way we can do a sign and trade with whatever team he goes too? I know it depends on the team, but this way we can at least get something in return? and maybe move another contract on the team we do not want, Tony Allen or Scal.
> 
> Only if it's someone willing to take him for full MLE money or he is willing to sign for biannual money to play elsewhere, both unlikely. We STILL have to have space under the cap to sign him, even if we only sign him to trade him. And if we use MLE $ to sign him, even if it's just to trade him, we've still used some of our MLE money and so can't use it elsewhere. Not likely. Sign and trade is basically a way of letting a team pay a FA more than they could otherwise because his old team usually has a way to offer him more. That's not really the case here.
> Kim
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  4 12:13:00 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:13:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turkoglu
Message-ID: <397281.89881.qm@web63103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

As an international player, it makes sense for Turk. (and his wife, don't forget that part - ie Marke Teixeira) to choose Toronto over lil' old Portland.  Esp. for a period of five years!   Toronto is nuts to give him that kind of contract - he doesn't strike me as a player who will be that useful five years from now. Esp. with their roster.  At least in Portland he would have been an important cog in what is shaping up to be a real contender - Roy, Oden, Nick Batum (would love to get that kid!), Aldridge, etc.    With Toronto, he gets an international city, roster, and no chance for a title.


      

From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 16:01:28 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turkoglu
In-Reply-To: <397281.89881.qm@web63103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <397281.89881.qm@web63103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <696862.92389.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

In doing so they have to let Marion, Parker & Delfino go. Parker?or Delfno would be nice additions, as would Marion if Wallace decides to go somewhere else.



________________________________
From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 5:13:00 AM
Subject: turkoglu

As an international player, it makes sense for Turk. (and his wife, don't forget that part - ie Marke Teixeira) to choose Toronto over lil' old Portland.? Esp. for a period of five years!? Toronto is nuts to give him that kind of contract - he doesn't strike me as a player who will be that useful five years from now. Esp. with their roster.? At least in Portland he would have been an important cog in what is shaping up to be a real contender - Roy, Oden, Nick Batum (would love to get that kid!), Aldridge, etc.? ? With Toronto, he gets an international city, roster, and no chance for a title.


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From jlyell at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 16:29:52 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wallace
Message-ID: <187332.17025.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A good sign for Celtic fans and supposedley?impressed?Wallace. One piece Parker looks to be headed to Cleveland

League sources say the Celtics offered their entire median exception (expected to be $5.6 million) to Wallace and said that even with that money spent they would not hesitate to continue to add pieces, that supposedly sat well with Wallace. July 8th is the earliest free agent players can sign new contracts, Wallace's camp has said they'd like to have a decision soon but have put no time table on their process. 

From kmalo17 at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 20:19:02 2009
From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo)
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:19:02 -0400
Subject: Glen Davis?
In-Reply-To: <662449.46437.qm@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <662449.46437.qm@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KM900AKYXRSHII0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>

At 07:48 AM 7/4/2009, R Howe wrote:
>Kim, thanks also, I know you have explained these things many times 
>in the past.
>I guess the real answer to my question of if the C's or any team, as 
>it seems that some teams are trying to do, wanted to go WAY beyond 
>the cap to fill out their team for getting to the next level or to 
>make existing overpaid/cap stuffing stars happy with better players 
>or top tier teams that want to upgrade with a different player or 
>two - they Cant.

Well of course not. That's what a cap IS. You're looking to basically 
ignore that there even is one.

>t is just not enough to have positions open to then outbid others 
>for a player-x even if they were not afraid of lux tax or bottom 
>line for a year or two; the league thru these mandated payment tiers 
>only allow teams to really overpay for 2-4 players then the rest of 
>the team has to be rookie scale, vet mins or various other specified 
>number of contract types.

Not at all. There ARE no mandated payment tiers. What there is is a 
cap and if you go over the cap then there are limits to what else you 
can do, which is the way it has to be or the cap doesn't exist. At 
least basketball has allowable exceptions, making it a soft cap. 
Football (and I think hockey) have hard caps where you cannot go over 
them, period. They have other things like more non-guaranteed 
contracts and signing bonus games you can use to get under of course....

But all this has to do with being over the cap in the first place. If 
you're under the cap you can overpay whatever you want to for as many 
players as you want to, up to the amount of the cap. This is what the 
cap is supposed to force people to do - limit spending.

>It seems to make only the top tier or perceived top tier players 
>players winners and everyone else striving to put themselves into a 
>position to be an overpaid (compared to their peers) player.

Not at all.

>This system makes it hard for any team to build a
>  championship team unless they get lucky enough to draft a legit 
> superstar to build around with a couple of good to allstar level 
> players as the system allows. (Kobe, Duncan, Original Shaq team 
> ect) Teams like the C's need to have have drafted a 2nd tier 
> franchise player and surround them with a couple of other vet near 
> past prime allstar level players thru constantly treading water via 
> trades, draft/player development and begging for the leftovers in FA.

No, it doesn't, it just means you have to be intelligent about how 
you allocate your resources. And you can trade for good players 
rather than waiting to sign them as FA.  You need to look at what you 
can do, not just focus on what you can't (and even then that's not 
necessarily the case, it just may take some creativity)

>Oh well I guess the league does not want the NY, LAs, Chi to be the 
>constant winners but I really do not see this system to be that 
>great. A hard cap to me would solve a lot of these issues but I know 
>the players, unions and owners all have vested interests to never have one.

Sorry, but I don't do conspiracy theories so I don't buy that this is 
all about the league wants this team or that team to be winners. 
While that sort of celebration of victimhood is just SUCH a loser 
mentality. Besides, doesn't that conspiracy usually run that the 
league wants NY to be great and NY has just been incompetent. Anyway 
the system isn't that bad, you're looking at it that way because it 
won't let you do what you want for the Cs. That's going to happen at 
some point with any system. While you can't have a hard cap with all 
the guaranteed salaries because that would be much, much, much worse, 
literally handcufffing teams so they couldn't even re-sign their own 
players. And the player's association would never, ever, ever go 
along with either having one or eliminating guaranteed contracts.
Kim 


From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Jul  5 03:00:52 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:00:52 EDT
Subject: Turkoglu shakes up free-agent market
Message-ID: <c1d.67b251d2.37817164@aol.com>

 
Turkoglu shakes up free-agent market
The Blazers and Raptors still have decisions to make after the Turkoglu  
reversal
 
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com


Turkoglu's about-face will reshape the  landscape in Portland, Toronto and 
other places.
Anyone who saw the footage of _Hedo  Turkoglu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862)  meeting Blazers bigwigs at Portland 
International Airport on  Thursday had to get a little bit of a weird feeling. 
Especially any married  guys. Turkoglu came alone, amid rumors that his wife 
very strongly preferred to  be in Toronto, and I remember thinking at that 
very moment that the Blazers  recruiting pitch was doomed to failure. It was 
going to be tough to sell her on  the charms of Portland if she wasn't there. 
Thus, despite two days of Chamber of Commerce weather here in the Rose 
City,  replete with blue skies and Mt. Hood views, and tours of the Blazers' 
first-rate  training facility in Tualatin, Turkoglu isn't coming to the 
Blazers. After an  11th-hour Boozerang that will forever immortalize him as 
"Hedon't" in the local  vernacular, the Turkoglus are heading to Toronto instead -- 
a place they never  visited on this free-agent tour, apparently because 
they didn't need to be sold  on it. 
In doing so, they've upset the entire apple cart of  free agency. 
Collateral casualties include _Shawn  Marion_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=510) , who seemed hours from a deal worth at least $36 
million with the  Raptors and now is likely to be scrounging around for the 
midlevel exception;  the _Cleveland  Cavaliers_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cle) , who were working on a sign-and-trade for _Anthony  
Parker_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=635)  that now 
probably has no chance of happening; and _Linas  Kleiza_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2770) , whose strongest suitors appeared 
to be the Raptors until Hedo's  last-second change of heart. 
Meanwhile, there are some huge winners too -- most  notably _David  Lee_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2772) , _Paul  
Millsap_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3015) , _Ramon  
Sessions_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3231)  and 
_Andre  Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=557) 
. Those free agents are some of the best remaining on the market, and  they 
were about to be put in a really tight spot if Turkoglu went to Portland  
and the Raptors re-signed Marion. At that point, the market would have been an 
 uncomfortable place for the top players to be, because the teams with cap 
space  don't appear eager to use it.  
In particular, while the Turkoglu drama played out Friday night, my sources 
 informed me that Oklahoma City -- the team with the biggest stack of chips 
 remaining -- is highly unlikely to splurge this summer. Given that the 
best  available young players (Millsap, Lee, Sessions) are poor fits on the 
Thunder's  roster, OKC plans to continue with its patient approach rather than 
overpaying  for parts that don't fit especially well.  
The Thunder will be value players rather than big-game hunters, looking for 
 opportunistic deals between now and the trade deadline. A year from now, 
they  could have as much as $20 million in cap space, two lottery picks 
(theirs and  Phoenix's) in a strong draft, and one of the league's best young 
rosters. About  the only way to screw it up would be to force a big contract 
into the picture  this summer, and with the team already selling out every 
game, they don't see  any need to rush it. 
If the Thunder are on the sidelines for big-name  free agents, it's hard to 
see who besides Portland is left in the game.  Sacramento has cap space but 
is in dire straits financially, while the Grizzlies  made the questionable 
choice to forsake a power forward-laden free-agent market  so they could 
overpay _Zach  Randolph_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1017) .  
As for the Blazers, they can go in several directions from here, and can at 
 least take comfort in the fact that they control the free-agent game until 
they  make their next move. Portland might want to go after Sessions, a 
good young  point guard who fills their need for a second quality pick-and-roll 
player --  albeit at a different position than Turkoglu.  
They may also decide to punt on free agency and hope  to play the trade 
market, but that's a risky strategy. If they don't get  something done by the 
trade deadline, the opportunity will basically be gone  forever because next 
year extensions for _Brandon  Roy_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027)  and _LaMarcus  Aldridge_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2983)  will kick in, and it's not clear that 
somebody will come available  who fits what they need.  
They might also try to make a long-shot run at _Lamar  Odom_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=617) , perhaps the best player 
left on the board and one who, like Turkoglu,  could provide another offensive 
creator while swinging between the two forward  spots. But the rainy weather 
and a location 90 minutes inland don't exactly jibe  with Odom's stated 
preference to live on the beach. The most likely outcome of  an Odom pursuit 
would be driving up the price for the rival Lakers. 
Alternatively, the Blazers could try to target a  Sixth Man shot creator 
like New York's _Nate  Robinson_ (http://sports.espn
.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2782) , or make a run at Philadelphia's Andre Miller, the latter 
not a  great fit in my opinion, but a possibility given their need at the 
point. 
As for Toronto, Turkoglu doesn't remedy the team's  glaring lack of 
athleticism, but it does give the team a sorely needed offensive  initiator on the 
wings. The Raptors needed to make some aggressive moves to try  to keep 
_Chris  Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977)  
from leaving next summer, and Turkoglu will combine with Bosh, _Jose  Calderon_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2806)  and _Andrea  
Bargnani_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2987)  to 
give Toronto one of the league's best-shooting teams. 
However, those four may not have any decent  teammates, because it looks 
like Toronto will have to gut much of the roster to  create the cap space for 
Turkoglu. Toronto is reportedly offering a five-year,  $52 million deal for 
Turkoglu, which means they might have to renounce the  rights to Shawn 
Marion, _Carlos  Delfino_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1999) , Anthony Parker and _Joey  Graham_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2759)  (as well as _Quincy  Douby_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3000) , _Jake  Voskuhl_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=879)  and _Pops  Mensah-Bonsu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3053) ) and round out 
the roster with minimum-salary players. Turkoglu  and 19-year-old rookie 
DeMar DeRozan would be the only wings on the roster. 
Seen in that light this looks like a terrible move. Toronto could have  
re-signed Marion, Parker and Delfino and then used its midlevel exception to 
add  Kleiza and possibly another player, making the Raptors a much deeper and  
well-balanced player. Instead they've possibly left themselves extremely 
thin  nearly everywhere, just for the privilege of overpaying a 30-year-old 
non-star  for the next half-decade. 
I say "possibly" because there are some ways out of this scenario. For  
starters, if the cap number came in higher than expected on July 8 and the  
Raptors worked Turkoglu's deal as a sign-and-trade with Orlando (generating a  
huge trade exception and, say, the rights to Greek big man Georgios 
Printezis  for the Magic), they might also be able to re-sign restricted free agent 
Carlos  Delfino.  
And if they could do it as a sign-and-trade involving Marion or Parker, it  
opens up more avenues for the Magic to retain some talent. It's not clear 
that  Orlando would have a use for Marion, or if the tax-paying Magic would 
be willing  to take on any salary at all.  
But it's possible they would have some use for a player like Parker in  
particular, who would fill Courtney Lee's role as a defensive ace and 
knock-down  shooter. If not, involving a third team might be able to get them a 
player they  covet more. Over the next several days, I'm sure both Toronto and 
Orlando will  be looking hard at these possibilities -- and that Marion's 
agent, Dan Fegan,  will be looking even harder. 
That is one of the great unknowns heading toward July 8, and until we learn 
 more about the final terms it's tough to totally evaluate how this move 
works  out for the Raptors.  
In the meantime, all that seems certain is that the Blazers have been 
jilted,  the Thunder are sitting this one out, and the ground has shifted 
unexpectedly  for countless free agents around the league as a result. As we head 
into  Independence Day, that's the state of the NBA union . . . at least, 
until the  next time somebody changes his mind. 
John Hollinger writes  for ESPN Insider
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the 
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)

From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Jul  5 03:06:55 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:06:55 EDT
Subject: NBA's worst cap-killing contracts
Message-ID: <d00.59f1c95e.378172cf@aol.com>

 
NBA's worst cap-killing contracts
 (http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/Randy-Hill?authorId=49)    
_by Randy  Hill_ (http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/Randy-Hill?authorId=49) 
Veteran columnist Randy Hill is a frequent contributor to  FOXSports.com.




The Detroit Pistons have reached the home stretch of their  free-agent 
shopping spree, cutting by about 25 percent the NBA's list of  potential serious 
spenders.

 
Unless those tricky sign-and-trade events are handled with more creativity  
than we're expecting, there's not much loot to go around. The usual blame 
is  aimed at the economy, which threatens to shrink the luxury-tax threshold 
for  teams that already are trimming support-level payroll at every turn.  
But we're also obliged to remind basketball fans about another reason for  
this troubling lack of debate-stirring player movement. That reason, you may 
 have guessed, is misappropriation of funds. Specifically, several teams  
currently are suffering for either bestowing or accepting in trade those 
hideous  contracts that may have seemed like a good idea of bestowing or 
accepting at the  time.  
Much like the bitter aftermath of acquiring a potentially obsolete tattoo,  
these handsomely compensated players are hanging around as reminders of an 
awful  lapse in judgment. Unlike the crummy tattoo, these contracts 
eventually expire.  
That's why our upcoming list will not include the names Tracy McGrady  
(Houston Rockets) and Jermaine O'Neal (Miami Heat) whose dueling bonanzas (both  
are due to be paid $23 million this season) are in their final seasons of  
existence. So, instead of serving as trade-or-free-agent-signing 
catastrophes  for their respective teams, those deals may now be worth more while 
creeping  toward extinction than the players attached to them were worth on the 
floor.  
Also exempt from lingering scrutiny are Shaquille O'Neal (going out at $20  
million), Ben Wallace ($14 million) and Larry Hughes ($13 million).  
It should be noted that the loot owed Darius Miles by the Portland Trail  
Blazers ($9 million) and the Sacramento Kings' tab for Shareef Abdur-Rahim 
(more  than $6 million) are final-year exceptions because those players 
continue  killing cap flexibility without actually suiting up with those teams for 
a few  years.  
Anyway, our focus is on the deals that have at least two more years of  
payroll-strangling impact on the teams cutting the checks. It's interesting to  
note that most of the teams with recent on-court success have very few of 
these  contracts on their ledgers.  

With that on the table, let's lead off with the Los Angeles Clippers, who ? 
a  few years after the golden (goose) days of Donald T. Sterling's 
unwillingness to  spend ? recently did a nice thing by unloading Zach Randolph and 
the final two  contractual years (and 33-plus million smackers) they 
inherited by acquiring him  from the thrifty New York Knicks. (The Knicks, with the 
shrewd Isiah Thomas at  the wheel, inherited that paper from Portland.)  
But the Clippers still have their mitts firmly around the deal attached to  
point guard Baron Davis, whose remaining four years and $54 million might 
seem  almost palpable if he played like he did for the Golden State Warriors. 
 
Until he does, Baron will be at lot harder for Sterling to move than the  
franchise (remember the salad days in San Diego?). Oh, the Clippers also 
employ  a fine, legitimate center named Chris Kaman, who might be worth some of 
his  remaining three years and almost $34 million if he stays healthy.  
Let's hop way over to New York, where the previously referenced Knicks are  
attempting to claw their way out of cap hell. While clearing space for next 
 summer's run at LeBron James seems do-able, their potential inability to 
keep a  couple of decent future playmates right now can be partially credited 
to Eddy  Curry (two years and more than $21 million) and Jared Jeffries 
(two years and a  tad more than $13.2).  
It might be easier to woo LeBron if he knew David Lee (a potential cap  
casualty) would be around to rebound the ball and throw it to him.  
The Curry and Jeffries deals ? and their cap-gripping status ? may be  
psychologically easier to deal with if Eddy and Jared actually played.  
While Donnie Walsh deals with those financial issues, the team he left 
behind  in Indiana is attempting to re-sign point guard Jarrett Jack while 
paying  back-up T.J. Ford a bit more than $8 million per year. But making this a 
true  hayride is the existence of a third point guard named Jamaal Tinsley, 
who ?  thanks to Donnie ? has two more years and $14.7 million on his 
Pacers deal.  
Another point guard who perspired very little last season was Washington  
Wizard Gilbert Arenas, who was injured for the first year of a deal that has  
five years and more than $95 million remaining before taking its last 
breath.  It's interesting that Agent Zero was re-upped for such grand 
remuneration just  months after his cronies finished playing better without him than 
with him.  
That deal, the history of injury and abundant sniping from the point-guard  
position (not to mention his blog) make Arenas difficult to keep in your 
lineup  or push on someone else. It also should be noted that the Wizards' cap 
issues  include the presence of two-guard Deshawn Stevenson, who has 
another two years  and more than $8 million (total) before going away.  
Another big 2008 signing occurred in Philly, where the Sixers backed up the 
 truck for Elton Brand and watched as the team struggled to jell while 
attempting  to play with him. After Elton ? who has four years and about $66 
million left on  what could become an ugly contract ? went down with a shoulder 
injury, the fleet  76ers did much better.  
By the way, Philly also deserves mention for having to give Samuel 
Dalembert  another $23.5 million over the next two seasons after Samuel gave them 
6.4  points and 8.6 rebounds per game last year.  
The center spot is even more well paid in Milwaukee, where the Bucks are  
prepared to give Andrew Bogut $41 million over the next five years while 
backup  Dan Gadzuric is due more than $14 million over the next two.  
Attention, K-Mart shoppers! While the Denver Nuggets attempt to keep Chris  
"Birdman" Andersen in their cage, Kenyon Martin is set to be paid more than 
$31  million over the next two seasons. Teammate Nene is no financial 
slouch, being  owed a less-offensive $33 million over the next three. Sure, those 
two do the  dirty work for a really good team, but that really seems a bit 
pricey now.  
In Dallas, where Mark Cuban's free spending usually can be attached to some 
 realistic method, center Erick Dampier (two more years at roughly $23.5 
million  total) will continue to jam trade and free-agent talks for another 
year or so.  
In Utah, the Jazz are happy that potential free agents Carlos Boozer and  
Mehmet Okur have decided a contract in the hand is worth more than the  
bush-league money available elsewhere. Unfortunately, the $34.2 million Utah  
owes Andrei Kirilenko over the next two years has contributed to the potential  
loss of break-out free-agent forward Paul Millsap.  
The New Orleans Hornets reportedly are peddling high-paid center Tyson  
Chandler and his questionable lower extremities; they might be a bit less  
willing to deal one of the few players capable of guarding Tim Duncan (without  
sen**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the 
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)

From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Sun Jul  5 03:35:29 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:35:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turkoglu
In-Reply-To: <mailman.113.1246762946.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.113.1246762946.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <702217.23713.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I disagree.

Signing Turkoglu is a step in the right direction for Toronto, namely keeping Chris Bish.

They have been signing players like Parker and Delfino (who went to Russia last year) for small money and because of this the bubble burst last season for them (only 33 wins).

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/raptors.jsp

Nicholas Batum will be a career benchwarmer IMHO.




------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Lyell <jlyell at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: turkoglu
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <696862.92389.qm at web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

In doing so they have to let Marion, Parker & Delfino go. Parker?or Delfno would be nice additions, as would Marion if Wallace decides to go somewhere else.



________________________________
From: Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com>
To: celtics at igtc.com
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 5:13:00 AM
Subject: turkoglu

As an international player, it makes sense for Turk. (and his wife, don't forget that part - ie Marke Teixeira) to choose Toronto over lil' old Portland.? Esp. for a period of five years!? Toronto is nuts to give him that kind of contract - he doesn't strike me as a player who will be that useful five years from now. Esp. with their roster.? At least in Portland he would have been an important cog in what is shaping up to be a real contender - Roy, Oden, Nick Batum (would love to get that kid!), Aldridge, etc.? ? With Toronto, he gets an international city, roster, and no chance for a title.


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest, Vol 17, Issue 165
****************************************************************



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au  Sun Jul  5 03:48:40 2009
From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
Message-ID: <270931.32644.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMNVibLGwc



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  5 12:56:38 2009
From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 05:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
Message-ID: <356979.89423.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

damn, it hurts to see Garnett doing his thing.? Any thoughts on if he will make it through next season and playoffs in one piece?? Will Doc shorten his (and allen & pierce) minutes??? Cause he's the difference, period.? No KG, no banner 18 yet.? Is Wallace young/healthy enough to pick up the slack if KG is injured again?

Should we go aftern Shawn Marion?? There's your wing defender.

Ellie

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
To: "Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMNVibLGwc



? ? ? ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From martind42 at cox.net  Sun Jul  5 13:02:26 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 9:02:26 -0400
Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
In-Reply-To: <356979.89423.qm@web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090705090226.SW1XR.170417.imail@eastrmwml32>

Marion is s shell of what he was.  If you want a player on the sownside of his career, go after Bruce Bowen. I haven't seen if he's signed yet, but he he is available for less money. Marion is over rated, IMO.
---- Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> damn, it hurts to see Garnett doing his thing.? Any thoughts on if he will make it through next season and playoffs in one piece?? Will Doc shorten his (and allen & pierce) minutes??? Cause he's the difference, period.? No KG, no banner 18 yet.? Is Wallace young/healthy enough to pick up the slack if KG is injured again?
> 
> Should we go aftern Shawn Marion?? There's your wing defender.
> 
> Ellie
> 
> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> 
> From: Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au>
> Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
> To: "Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:48 PM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMNVibLGwc
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Sun Jul  5 13:46:08 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 9:46:08 -0400
Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
In-Reply-To: <20090705090226.SW1XR.170417.imail@eastrmwml32>
Message-ID: <20090705094608.L3PIX.170667.imail@eastrmwml32>

I have to learn to proof read.  I meant that Bowen can be signed for less than Marion.  I did mean to say that Marion was over rated.
---- martind42 at cox.net wrote: 
> Marion is s shell of what he was.  If you want a player on the sownside of his career, go after Bruce Bowen. I haven't seen if he's signed yet, but he he is available for less money. Marion is over rated, IMO.
---- Ellie Cutler <ellie.cutler at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> damn, it hurts to see Garnett doing his thing.? Any thoughts on if he will make it through next season and playoffs in one piece?? Will Doc shorten his (and allen & pierce) minutes??? Cause he's the difference, period.? No KG, no banner 18 yet.? Is Wallace young/healthy enough to pick up the slack if KG is injured again?
> 
> Should we go aftern Shawn Marion?? There's your wing defender.
> 
> Ellie
> 
> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> 
> From: Adam Patterson <patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au>
> Subject: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Kevin Garnett - Boston Celtics
> To: "Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:48 PM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMNVibLGwc
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From BDodgers at aol.com  Sun Jul  5 17:16:07 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:16:07 EDT
Subject: Blazers considering Knicks forward Lee
Message-ID: <cd6.512aa79e.378239d7@aol.com>

 
Blazers considering Knicks forward Lee
 

By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com

In the wake of losing _Hedo  Turkoglu_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862) , the _Portland Trail  Blazers_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=por)  have become engaged in serious discussions 
about making an offer to  _New York Knicks_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk)   restricted free agent _David  Lee_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2772) , ESPN.com learned Saturday. 
The development came a day after Lee's agent said a dozen NBA teams are  
trying to find ways to acquire the power forward through sign-and-trade  
deals. 
But like other interested teams, the Blazers are concerned that they would 
be  placed in limbo until July 15 -- the date by which the Knicks would have 
to  decide whether they'd match the offer -- and could lose out if other 
free agents  take themselves off the market in the interim by rushing to get 
what they can of  the league's dwindling amount of available dollars. 
The upside of the Turkoglu turnaround for Portland was that it left them as 
 one of the strongest remaining players in free agency, with $9 million 
worth of  salary cap space they're clearly ready to spend.  
Portland could offer all of its available cap space  to Lee in the form of 
an offer sheet that would amount to roughly $50 million  over five years. 
And as a disincentive to keep the Knicks from matching, they  could structure 
the deal so that the highest salary of any of the five years  would come in 
2010-11 -- the season for which the Knicks will need as much  salary cap 
space as possible to make a run at _LeBron  James_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966)  and/or another of the marquee superstars 
that will be available. 
But there also is the possibility that the Blazers and Knicks could agree 
to  a sign-and-trade -- although Portland would be no shortage of 
competition. 
"All the elite teams are working hard to get him, and I know something is  
going to happen," Lee's agent Mark Bartelstein said Friday, as the first 72  
hours of free agency were passing without Lee getting any offers for what  
Bartelstein believes his market value to be. He also pointed out that over 
the  past 10 years (when the luxury tax was not an annual certainty, making 
market  conditions far different than they are today), players entering free 
agency  after averaging a double-double the previous season have been 
lucratively  rewarded. 
According to ESPN Research, eight players have entered the free-agent 
market  coming off a double-double average the previous season. Here is what they 
 subsequently signed for: 
? _Emeka  Okafor_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2399)  2007-08: Six-year, $72 million contract with Charlotte as a  
restricted free agent. 
? _Carlos  Boozer_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703)  2003-04: Six-year, $68 million deal with Jazz as a restricted free  
agent, with the Cavs not matching the offer and claiming Boozer reneged on a  
handshake agreement to stay in Cleveland.  
? _Erick  Dampier_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181)  2003-04: Seven-year, $73 million contract with Dallas. 
? _Elton Brand_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=91) 
  2002-03: Six-year, $82.2 million contract with the Clippers as a 
restricted free  agent. 
? _Tim Duncan_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=215) 
  2002-03: Seven-year, $122 million contract with San Antonio. 
? _Jermaine  O'Neal_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=615)  2002-03: Seven-year, $126.6 million contract with Indiana. 
? _Dikembe  Mutombo_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=588)  2000-01: Four-year, $65million contract with Philadelphia 
? _Chris  Webber_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=897)  2000-01: Seven-year, $122.7 million contract with Sacramento. 
? Tim Duncan 1999-00: Four-year, $45.9 million contract with San Antonio. 
The problem for Bartelstein and Lee has been the power of the unknown -- no 
 one having a clear idea of whether the Knicks would match. 
"Joe Dumars and I had a long talk, and he really  liked David a lot. David 
would have been a major target for them but he said  'Mark, if the Knicks 
match, I've lost _Ben  Gordon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profil
e?playerId=2381)  and everybody else I'm trying to get.' So this is a very 
difficult  situation to operate under," Bartelstein said. "Even Toronto, they 
would have  had to renounce all their players to get David -- and then 
they're not even sure  they could get him." 
Lee averaged 16.0 points and 11.4 rebounds for New York last season and has 
 been a fan favorite in New York despite the Knicks having had four 
straight  dismal seasons. 
And something the Blazers will have to consider: After losing Turkoglu  
because he preferred the more international flavor of Toronto, do they want to  
take a similar risk on a player who has been open about his desire to 
remain in  New York long term? 
"Our first goal has always been to get a deal done with the Knicks -- a  
fair-market deal based upon who David is in this league among his peers, to 
get  a deal that's fair," Bartelstein said before the Turkoglu fiasco 
unraveled and  Portland entered the picture.  
"Because there's no ifs, ands or buts, David wants to be a Knick. But if  
we're not going to be able to do that, the reality I have is that the route I 
 have to go is sign-and-trade, and that's even harder because he becomes a  
base-year compensation player, and it makes that trade an incredibly 
complicated  event to get to happen, where you have to put in all kinds of players 
and  teams." 
Bartelstein refused to name any of the 12 teams he claims are interested in 
a  sign-and-trade, though he did say "if you look at all the tams who feel 
they are  one player away, they're all in there. 
"Players who produce like David Lee rarely come onto  the market," he said, 
adding that he had only talked "conceptually" about  dollars with the 
Knicks, whose president, Donnie Walsh, tossed an interesting  nugget out there 
Thursday when asked why the Knicks were suddenly willing to  offer _Jason  
Kidd_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=429)  a 
three-year guarantee when he had said just days earlier that he would  not sign any 
player to a mid-level contract unless he could shed an equal amount  of 
salary. "I have a little leeway that will leave me in good position for next  
year," Walsh told the Associated Press. "I know what it is, but do not talk 
much  about it." 
Chris Sheridan is an NBA writer for  ESPN.com.
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the 
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)

From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 00:16:55 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: two year push
Message-ID: <917154.15157.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It's clear (to me) that the talks with Rasheed & Grant Hill indicate an all or nothing push for the next two years.? That's fine.? I know there are some important issues swirling around the world, but I find myself alert to bells ringing suggesting that Rasheed has agreed to terms.? Along with others, I'm not keen on his "red zone" tendencies, especially late in games, but he's exactly what we need (other than possibly being a bit old; but we couldn't get him if he weren't).? He's an excellent defender and can play both big positions, plus hit shots from range.? If we get Davis and Grant Hill, too, we would be fairly well set.? I would rather not limp along at backup PG, so maybe Pruitt can be the guy.

The numbers will get crowded soon, so we may need a suitor for Scal and Tony.? Can't help but hope for Hudson to be a star this week, but whoever emerges is fine with me.? I do think Walker is the cream of the youngsters, but Giddens & Hudson have a lot to prove.? Holler if there's any TV option for this week; I plan to check the boxscores otherwise.? Gene



      

From BDodgers at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 01:29:02 2009
From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:29:02 EDT
Subject: Source: Wallace commits to Celtics
Message-ID: <d0c.566a4f4c.3782ad5e@aol.com>

 
Source: Wallace commits to Celtics
 

By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com


_Rasheed  Wallace_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883)  is joining the _Boston Celtics_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) , an  NBA source said, giving the Celtics one of the most 
important free agents on the  marketplace as they attempt to return to the 
championship. 
The Boston Globe reported Wallace will sign for two years at the mid-level  
exception. 
Wallace won a championship with the _Detroit Pistons_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)  in  2004 after arriving in a mid-season 
trade, although his career has been noted  just as much for his volatile 
interactions with officials and contentious  relationships with coaches. However, 
the strong presence of veterans such as _Kevin  Garnett_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) , _Paul  Pierce_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662)  and _Ray Allen_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9)  in  the Celtics' locker room 
should keep Wallace in line and bring the focus to his  positive attributes: the 
6-foot-11 Wallace is a scoring threat from the low  block to the 3-point 
arc and a long-armed, savvy defender. 
"As much as Rasheed's a headache, teammakes like him and he's a winner,"  
another NBA executive said. 
After trade rumors involving Allen and _Rajon  Rondo_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026)  surfaced last month it appeared 
the Celtics might be trying to shift  on the fly, at the risk of breaking up 
the core that won the 2008 NBA  championship. Now they have landed a piece 
that makes them a prime contender to  win again next season, with an emphasis 
on the short term. Wallace will be 35 in  September and made joining a 
championship-caliber team a priority this  offseason, with the _Orlando Magic_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=orl)  and _San Antonio Spurs_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas)  on  his short list of 
teams of interest. 
But Boston was always the leading contender, a  positioned strengthened by 
a dinner meeting with Wallace involving Garnett,  Pierce, Allen, coach _Doc  
Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579)  and 
owner Wyc Grousbeck last week. 
Wallace restores frontcourt depth to the Celtics,  who did not extend a 
qualifying offer to _Leon Powe_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3023)   and could lose restricted free agent _Glen  Davis_ 
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3200)  if another team signs 
him to a contract the Celtics decide not to  match. 
J.A. Adande is a columnist for  ESPN.com.
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the 
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Mon Jul  6 02:03:16 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (Troy)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:03:16 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
Message-ID: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>

 

Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!  Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
pt shooter to spread the floor.   The 2 year deal is great too.  I thought
it would take 3 years to get it done.    I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
his career doesn't do anything very well.  I would much rather offer M.
Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
But this is a great day!!   Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!   Troy

-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2211 - Release Date: 06/30/09 11:37:00

From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jul  6 02:29:06 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
References: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
Message-ID: <634433.63321.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Agreed, Anthony Parker is a sleeper and would be a big addition. Maybe Daniels can up his game again in search of another decent pay day.

I would like Jannero Pargo, but with House?& Pruitt I doubt they will sign him,

Hopefully we can keep Baby




?



________________________________
From: Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net>
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List <celtics at igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 7:03:16 PM
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!



Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!? Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
pt shooter to spread the floor.? The 2 year deal is great too.? I thought
it would take 3 years to get it done.? ? I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
his career doesn't do anything very well.? I would much rather offer M.
Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
But this is a great day!!? Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!? Troy

From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 03:00:31 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:00:31 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
Message-ID: <20090705230031.F17GP.173985.imail@eastrmwml48>

As another poster put it, this might put the icing on the cake for Hill to come to Boston as well.  We would have an old, but cagey veteran team.  I'm so glad we didn't go for three years.  Good move by Danny. And I was all set for plan B.
---- Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote: 
>  
> 
> Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!  Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
> pt shooter to spread the floor.   The 2 year deal is great too.  I thought
> it would take 3 years to get it done.    I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
> He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
> his career doesn't do anything very well.  I would much rather offer M.
> Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
> But this is a great day!!   Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
> future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!   Troy
> 


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 03:06:01 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:06:01 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
Message-ID: <20090705230601.5LHTC.174046.imail@eastrmwml48>

NO, but Hill is still a smart, cerebral player who can be a good guy to rein in the wildcats on the team.  I'd have preferred a younger player, but Hill still has something left in the tank. And, he was pretty injury free last season, playing more minutes per game than perhaps his five previous seasons.  If the C's can lure him, it would be a big step forward for next season. We'll at least have some length back in our lineup.
---- Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote: 
>  
> 
> Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!  Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
> pt shooter to spread the floor.   The 2 year deal is great too.  I thought
> it would take 3 years to get it done.    I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
> He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
> his career doesn't do anything very well.  I would much rather offer M.
> Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
> But this is a great day!!   Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
> future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!   Troy
> 


From pdelevett at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 04:13:52 2009
From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:13:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed=Rodman, in a good way
Message-ID: <551121.81364.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Remember when the Jordanaires had a huge hole inside after Horace Grant left town? They went out and got the baddest man on the planet, confident that Jordan, Pippen & Jackson could keep him focused and in line. Three rings later, that seemed like a pretty good idea.

As somebody else said, Wallace fills the holes left by Posey and PJ all by himself. I'd actually be delighted if Grant Hill wanted to join the greybeard party; he could conceivably back up Paul and both backcourt spots. I didn't see many Suns game last season but have read he acquitted himself pretty admirably on the defensive end. Sounds like Steve Kerr wants to keep him in PHX, so the real question may be whether he's "championship driven" or if he doesn't want to uproot his family again.

Add Hill and a Tyronn Lue and the Cs would seem to have few holes (assuming Baby comes back, as any kind of fool can see... sorry). Though there are a couple interesting bigs on the Summer League team (Fazekas, Swift, maybe Sweetney) as possible insurance.



      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 04:41:38 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: two year push
Message-ID: <727951.20800.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Apparently at least the first game will be streamed online.  You can check it out at: 

http://www.nba.com/jazz/09summer_league.html

Ryan

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Holler if there's any TV
> option for this week; I plan to check the boxscores
> otherwise.? Gene
> 



      


From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jul  6 07:50:25 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:50:25 +0200
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <20090705230601.5LHTC.174046.imail@eastrmwml48>
References: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
	<20090705230601.5LHTC.174046.imail@eastrmwml48>
Message-ID: <56a297000907060050y2cff0443w4af90c75ab373f1b@mail.gmail.com>

He would also be the backup point(forward) which means that we could
play House more.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 5:06 AM, <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
> NO, but Hill is still a smart, cerebral player who can be a good guy to rein in the wildcats on the team. ?I'd have preferred a younger player, but Hill still has something left in the tank. And, he was pretty injury free last season, playing more minutes per game than perhaps his five previous seasons. ?If the C's can lure him, it would be a big step forward for next season. We'll at least have some length back in our lineup.
> ---- Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one! ?Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
>> pt shooter to spread the floor. ? The 2 year deal is great too. ?I thought
>> it would take 3 years to get it done. ? ?I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
>> He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
>> his career doesn't do anything very well. ?I would much rather offer M.
>> Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
>> But this is a great day!! ? Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
>> future and this will be a very, very good offseason!! ? Troy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From gk_tyler at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 10:36:04 2009
From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 03:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: two year push
Message-ID: <81280.80036.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks, I'll try to get it online.? I'm really thrilled at getting Rasheed.? I woke up fearing that four children times four free passes to Disneyworld may sink us.? But basketball issues won out.? Cheers!? Gene

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: two year push
To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 11:41 PM


Apparently at least the first game will be streamed online.? You can check it out at: 

http://www.nba.com/jazz/09summer_league.html

Ryan

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Holler if there's any TV
> option for this week; I plan to check the boxscores
> otherwise.? Gene
> 



? ? ? 

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jul  6 10:55:49 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 06:55:49 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
References: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
Message-ID: <200907061055.n66AtplM010291@ares.afrc.af.mil>

Okay, I'll say it and get the lines humming.

Sheed ain't coming off the bench. As Austin Powers might say "that's a starter baby...".  Disagree if you like, but I have a sinking feeling that a big part of this wasn't "you can be our big 6th man" and while KG maybe "useta could" play the three (Ray Allen as the 6th man - now that's a plan) - I don't think he can anymore. This would've been an excellent way to matchup with this year's Magic teams (KG COULD guard Turk in his sleep at the 3) for example, and Sheed vs Lewis or KG vs Turk on the block would've been a huge advantage for the Cs, but overall it now creates something of an interesting problem.

I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the pine to start off games next year.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Troy
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!

 

Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!  Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
pt shooter to spread the floor.   The 2 year deal is great too.  I thought
it would take 3 years to get it done.    I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in his career doesn't do anything very well.  I would much rather offer M.
Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
But this is a great day!!   Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!   Troy


From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 11:46:26 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:46:26 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <200907061055.n66AtplM010291@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <FF0CF58F.78D4.4281.94AF.A2723EB42FDF@aol.com>


On Jul 6, 2009, at 6:55:49 AM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the pine to start off games next year.
--------------

Pat, you are probably right. ?Don't forget, the Celts actually attempted to trade Perk, along with
Ray Allen and Rondo... to no avail. ?

Several months ago, prior to the Celts feeling they had no shot at Rasheed, their FA plan
(dictated by allowed exceptions) included Grant ?Hill whose Orlando pal, Rivers,
felt was in the bag for?cheap dollars, along with ?McDyess,?whom Danny had attempted 
to?sign last year, but felt we maybe had a chance to sign him this year.?

The fact that we have now attracted Rasheed plus almost certainly Grant Hill, is a
real plus, even though Rasheed is not ?one of my favorite players and will
be 35 yrs. old by the start of next season. ?

As for signing Tyronn Leu, which is quite possible at the Vet minimum, who was 
it (Hartley, MartinD, Hill, Ubi?) who blasted me for merely?suggesting that we 
should have?added him last season? ?

Hey, the sun is finally shining here in Southern Maine, and all is well with
the Celtics,,, at least for now.?





From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jul  6 11:52:06 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:52:06 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <FF0CF58F.78D4.4281.94AF.A2723EB42FDF@aol.com>
References: <200907061055.n66AtplM010291@ares.afrc.af.mil>
	<FF0CF58F.78D4.4281.94AF.A2723EB42FDF@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200907061152.n66Bq7cB008655@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Lue has never really done much for me, but it's the backup PG to a 25 year old who can go 45 minutes a contest. He shouldn't be getting many playoff minutes anyway. Bill Walker remains the linchpin in the discussion - can he be the defensive stopper role player? If not, then we need one at the wing position WAY more than backup PG.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:46 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!


On Jul 6, 2009, at 6:55:49 AM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil wrote:

I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the pine to start off games next year.
--------------

Pat, you are probably right. ?Don't forget, the Celts actually attempted to trade Perk, along with
Ray Allen and Rondo... to no avail. ?

Several months ago, prior to the Celts feeling they had no shot at Rasheed, their FA plan
(dictated by allowed exceptions) included Grant ?Hill whose Orlando pal, Rivers,
felt was in the bag for?cheap dollars, along with ?McDyess,?whom Danny had attempted 
to?sign last year, but felt we maybe had a chance to sign him this year.?

The fact that we have now attracted Rasheed plus almost certainly Grant Hill, is a
real plus, even though Rasheed is not ?one of my favorite players and will
be 35 yrs. old by the start of next season. ?

As for signing Tyronn Leu, which is quite possible at the Vet minimum, who was 
it (Hartley, MartinD, Hill, Ubi?) who blasted me for merely?suggesting that we 
should have?added him last season? ?

Hey, the sun is finally shining here in Southern Maine, and all is well with
the Celtics,,, at least for now.?




_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 13:47:05 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 06:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
Message-ID: <909635.96429.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over Perkins.  Rasheed came here with a bench role and a championship in mind--he knows he's at that point in his career where he needs to be on a team where he's coming off the bench, because any team where he's starting is probably not going to be good enough to win anything...  There are plenty of minutes to go around behind Perk and KG.

Re: Lue--no one blasted you for suggesting that we merely add him....if I remember correctly, you blasted the Cs for saving 600,000 dollars and letting him go to the Bucks.  From what I remember, I pointed out that Tyronne Lue was not going to be the difference between winning and losing a championship, a maxim that is as true today as when it was first uttered.  He's not a BAD signing at the minimum, but he's a terrible player nonetheless (terrible in a steady, veteran way) and I'd rather have Pruitt or Hudson getting those minutes instead of him, assuming he can lower himself and take the minimum (something he couldn't do last season, when we were the defending champs).  If Grant Hill comes here, my hope would be that he takes over most of the backup point guard duties anyway, allowing House to play his natural shooting guard spot (and guarding the point guard of the other team), and rendering Lue this year's less cool version of Sam Cassell.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:46 AM
> 
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 6:55:49 AM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> wrote:
> 
> I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the
> pine to start off games next year.
> --------------
> 
> Pat, you are probably right. ?Don't forget, the Celts
> actually attempted to trade Perk, along with
> Ray Allen and Rondo... to no avail. ?
> 
> Several months ago, prior to the Celts feeling they had no
> shot at Rasheed, their FA plan
> (dictated by allowed exceptions) included Grant ?Hill
> whose Orlando pal, Rivers,
> felt was in the bag for?cheap dollars, along with
> ?McDyess,?whom Danny had attempted 
> to?sign last year, but felt we maybe had a chance to sign
> him this year.?
> 
> The fact that we have now attracted Rasheed plus almost
> certainly Grant Hill, is a
> real plus, even though Rasheed is not ?one of my favorite
> players and will
> be 35 yrs. old by the start of next season. ?
> 
> As for signing Tyronn Leu, which is quite possible at the
> Vet minimum, who was 
> it (Hartley, MartinD, Hill, Ubi?) who blasted me for
> merely?suggesting that we 
> should have?added him last season? ?
> 
> Hey, the sun is finally shining here in Southern Maine, and
> all is well with
> the Celtics,,, at least for now.?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jul  6 13:51:37 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:51:37 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <909635.96429.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <909635.96429.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200907061351.n66DpgJr006869@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

We'll see.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!


There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over Perkins.  


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:02:29 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
Message-ID: <599661.89647.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


There's been a lot of speculating lately about Rondo's mental state, about whether he was 'all about the money,' 'committed to winning,' 'willing to put himself before the team,' etc.  Well, it looks like the trade rumors aren't adversely affecting him as much as they could have (some players simply go right into the tank once they learn their value is being gauged around the league)--in fact, he's taken a LEADERSHIP role this summer, agreeing to help COACH this year's summer league team (Austin Ainge, Danny's son, is going to be the head coach for the summer league and has the inside position to be the new coach in Portland).  Volunteering in the summer?  Working with the youngsters when he could be chilling on the beach?  Maybe the little Dictator is turning a leaf and maturing right before our eyes.  How precious.  Here's the article.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090705rajon_rondo_deals_with_all_trade_rumors/  

Rajon Rondo deals with all trade rumors
By Mark Murphy
Sunday, July 5, 2009 


ORLANDO, Fla. - Rajon Rondo [stats], not about to let rumors from the last month get between him and his team, has shown up as something of a celebrity coach for this week?s summer league.

The Celtics [team stats] point guard, talked about at various stages to be headed everywhere from Detroit to Zanzibar, has been asked to work with the team?s free agent point guards and to offer insights.

His agent, Bill Duffy, sent along instructions that Rondo not discuss his contract - or impending talks on an extension - with the media.

His maturity has been dissected to kingdom come, but Rondo, leaning back in the chair that was his station during yesterday morning?s scrimmage at Rollins College, seems amused by all of the fuss.

?I don?t know - sometimes I hear people say that I?m awfully young to be in the NBA, like I?m not even 23,? he said. ?Sometimes it seems like people are going at me like I?m 30, but that?s OK.?

Mention of his tardiness and subsequent fine for reporting late to a playoff game triggered a little more edge in his voice.

?Oh, they?re going to dig at things,? he said, ?but I?m not making excuses for anything, and I don?t have any regrets. I just play to win.?

He also didn?t object to flying to Orlando on Friday at the request of Celtics management, which floated the idea with the player three weeks ago. He even did some of the little things yesterday, like rebounding for Kevin Rogers while the free agent guard shot free throws.

This certainly isn?t the kind of task that a disenfranchised, about-to-be-traded star would perform.

?You hear them, but I don?t watch a lot of TV,? he said of the flurry of rumors during draft week. ?I got a lot of phone calls from friends, but I didn?t answer a lot of them. I was traveling a lot.

?But probably the biggest one was that Detroit rumor,? Rondo said of a report that had Celtics officials allegedly talking with the Pistons about a deal that would have sent Rondo and Ray Allen to Detroit for Richard Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey. ?I was on the train going from New York to Boston. I got the most calls of anything on that one.

?But you can?t prepare for it or pay too much attention to it, because it?s a business.?

And then he paused, before adding of a possible trade, ?It?s still not too late to happen.?

For the time being, though, Rondo gets to indulge in a change of perspective.

For one week, he?s a coach and a teacher.

Rondo worked on his teaching chops last month during a Nike-sponsored trip to China. For one week, he and Houston point guard Aaron Brooks taught the game to 90 Chinese youngsters, while also walking the Great Wall and enjoying a change in culture.

And now he gets to feel what a coach feels, including the frustration.

You might say that he now understands why Doc Rivers can get discouraged when what gets called in the huddle doesn?t get carried out on the floor.

?It?s frustrating when you call for something and the guys go out and turn the ball over,? Rondo said.

?But it?s only two days, and the guys are coming from different teams and systems, so it?s hard. But I?m cool. I get to look at things and learn the coach?s perspective.?

In the meantime, Rondo can also keep those nasty reports from the outside world at bay.



      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:07:16 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
Message-ID: <497067.43894.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35 year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low post defender in the game.  Really?  Is that going to happen?  Perk is our defensive rock.  

Rasheed is getting old and he doesn't have a ton left in the tank...sure, he's going to have some 'turn back the clock' moments for us, hit some bit 3s, get some boards and blocks, but at his age, he shouldn't be expected to be playing starting minutes.  He's scoring and defensive punch off the bench, nothing more.  If he NEEDED to start, he would have went some place else.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 8:51 AM
> We'll see.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over
> Perkins.? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:14:12 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Incumbents Fighting Hard
Message-ID: <174244.97668.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Interesting stuff outta summer league today.  Giddens, apparently, is having a fantastic camp so far ("he hasn't missed in two days").  Walker, from the picture on the Herald's site, looks like he's added some muscle in his upper body.  From another article, it appears that Hudson and Bryan Mullins have impressed Rondo.  Can't wait until tonight--hope that online stream works!

As for the speculation that one of Walker/Giddens might be let go or moved--I'll believe it when I see it.  I think both players make the team and at least one plays an important role next season.  Giddens, it seems, will get every chance to take TA's spot.  Walker, however, might have more trouble breaking into the lineup if Grant Hill signs.  I still think their both good prospects though and with our team trending towards old men I think it would be wise to use some of our youngsters as ying to their Old Spice yang.  If any youngster is gone, it's Pruitt--Hudson seems like the better prospect and we have an option on Pruitt.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090706incumbents_already_battling_hard/

Incumbents already battling hard
By Mark Murphy
Monday, July 6, 2009 - Added 7h ago

ORLANDO, Fla. - A.J. Abrams, cruising off the break for the New Jersey Nets, was leveled by Bill Walker when the Celtics [team stats] forward went for the ball and got a little too much body instead.

Abrams crashed face-first to the floor, and didn?t get up for a good five minutes. That was enough for both sides to agree the time was right to cancel the rest of an informal Saturday night scrimmage. While Abrams was taken to a local hospital for tests, Walker returned to practice yesterday with the C?s summer league team at Rollins College.

Now that the Celtics have reached an agreement with free agent Rasheed Wallace, general manager Danny Ainge searches for possible candidates for the $1.3 million veteran and $1.9 million biannual exceptions, roster spots are at a premium.

There?s no guarantee that all three incumbents on the summer league roster - Gabe Pruitt, J.R. Giddens and Walker - will return.

Though Giddens and Walker couldn?t be more different - an athletic, smooth-shooting 2-guard who can defend smaller 3s; and a natural small forward with a power game - ultimately only one may stick. Point guard Pruitt is facing challenges from rookie Lester Hudson and free agent Bryan Mullins.

?Honestly we?re looking at all of them,? coach Doc Rivers said. ?We?re going to improve this team. If that means keeping both of them or just keeping one, whatever is best for the team is what we?re going for.?

Thus the added edge. Giddens, with three eye-popping blocks on jump shooters to his credit, seemingly hasn?t missed in two days of practice. Walker isn?t taking prisoners, though he disputes that the added pressure is influencing his play.

?This is just how I was taught to play ever since I was young,? said Walker. ?Not a lot of guys like to play physical. They like to be comfortable on the court and do their thing. I just play a different brand of basketball.?

Giddens hasn?t needed much time to set himself apart over the last two days. Both Ainge and Rivers have singled out the swingman?s ability to elevate his game this summer, and the situation only seems to be drawing out his best.

?If I get my work in and do what I do, then you shouldn?t worry about the competition,? said Giddens. ?You just worry about yourself. When that time comes, all the preparation is going to show.

?I can?t worry about who they?re going to bring in or try to sign. I just have to worry about being the best player that I can be, and whatever situation they want to put me in, I just have to be successful.?

The good news for the coaching staff is that this group appears to have hit a high energy level quickly, with the first summer league game set for tonight against Utah.

Not every summer league starts this way, however.

?If you?re in the summer league, then that means you?re fighting for your job,? said Rivers.

?What gets me is that they?re not all this competitive. They all should be, but for some reason some are more competitive than others.?



      


From stevebknight at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:18:04 2009
From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.119.1246888961.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
References: <mailman.119.1246888961.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
Message-ID: <949821.30620.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

agree with ryan. no way wallace starts over perk. if you hadn't noticed, perk was a rock in the playoffs. sure, he has warts, but he's all we have to defend the true bigs. plenty of room for all to get minutes. 

in fact, i'd be surprised if wallace gets 20 minutes a game throughout the season if everyone stays healthy, just to make sure he is fresh for the playoffs.   

Message: 12Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:51:37 -0400
From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
To: <celtics at igtc.com>
Message-ID: <200907061351.n66DpgJr006869 at poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We'll see.

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!


There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over Perkins.  



      

From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jul  6 14:28:06 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:28:06 -0400
Subject: Incumbents Fighting Hard
In-Reply-To: <174244.97668.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <174244.97668.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200907061428.n66ES9Jr028727@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

All this stuff from Doc and Danny about "letting them go" is to motivate them to work harder. Don't both Giddens and Walker have guaranteed contracts (meaning a buyout would have to occur) for this year? Or were they one year only (I didn't see anything listing them as UFAs)?

Add to that Danny has a history of keeping people he drafts (especially projects) a little longer than most of us would like and you can see through the spin that it would take both owner's cash and Ainge admitting he didn't "hit another inside straight in the late rounds" to let them go. Also, they would have to have someone actually signed to take their spots as well.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:14 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Incumbents Fighting Hard


Interesting stuff outta summer league today.  Giddens, apparently, is having a fantastic camp so far ("he hasn't missed in two days").  Walker, from the picture on the Herald's site, looks like he's added some muscle in his upper body.  From another article, it appears that Hudson and Bryan Mullins have impressed Rondo.  Can't wait until tonight--hope that online stream works!

As for the speculation that one of Walker/Giddens might be let go or moved--I'll believe it when I see it.  I think both players make the team and at least one plays an important role next season.  Giddens, it seems, will get every chance to take TA's spot.  Walker, however, might have more trouble breaking into the lineup if Grant Hill signs.  I still think their both good prospects though and with our team trending towards old men I think it would be wise to use some of our youngsters as ying to their Old Spice yang.  If any youngster is gone, it's Pruitt--Hudson seems like the better prospect and we have an option on Pruitt.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090706incumbents_already_battling_hard/

Incumbents already battling hard
By Mark Murphy
Monday, July 6, 2009 - Added 7h ago

ORLANDO, Fla. - A.J. Abrams, cruising off the break for the New Jersey Nets, was leveled by Bill Walker when the Celtics [team stats] forward went for the ball and got a little too much body instead.

Abrams crashed face-first to the floor, and didn?t get up for a good five minutes. That was enough for both sides to agree the time was right to cancel the rest of an informal Saturday night scrimmage. While Abrams was taken to a local hospital for tests, Walker returned to practice yesterday with the C?s summer league team at Rollins College.

Now that the Celtics have reached an agreement with free agent Rasheed Wallace, general manager Danny Ainge searches for possible candidates for the $1.3 million veteran and $1.9 million biannual exceptions, roster spots are at a premium.

There?s no guarantee that all three incumbents on the summer league roster - Gabe Pruitt, J.R. Giddens and Walker - will return.

Though Giddens and Walker couldn?t be more different - an athletic, smooth-shooting 2-guard who can defend smaller 3s; and a natural small forward with a power game - ultimately only one may stick. Point guard Pruitt is facing challenges from rookie Lester Hudson and free agent Bryan Mullins.

?Honestly we?re looking at all of them,? coach Doc Rivers said. ?We?re going to improve this team. If that means keeping both of them or just keeping one, whatever is best for the team is what we?re going for.?

Thus the added edge. Giddens, with three eye-popping blocks on jump shooters to his credit, seemingly hasn?t missed in two days of practice. Walker isn?t taking prisoners, though he disputes that the added pressure is influencing his play.

?This is just how I was taught to play ever since I was young,? said Walker. ?Not a lot of guys like to play physical. They like to be comfortable on the court and do their thing. I just play a different brand of basketball.?

Giddens hasn?t needed much time to set himself apart over the last two days. Both Ainge and Rivers have singled out the swingman?s ability to elevate his game this summer, and the situation only seems to be drawing out his best.

?If I get my work in and do what I do, then you shouldn?t worry about the competition,? said Giddens. ?You just worry about yourself. When that time comes, all the preparation is going to show.

?I can?t worry about who they?re going to bring in or try to sign. I just have to worry about being the best player that I can be, and whatever situation they want to put me in, I just have to be successful.?

The good news for the coaching staff is that this group appears to have hit a high energy level quickly, with the first summer league game set for tonight against Utah.

Not every summer league starts this way, however.

?If you?re in the summer league, then that means you?re fighting for your job,? said Rivers.

?What gets me is that they?re not all this competitive. They all should be, but for some reason some are more competitive than others.?



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 14:29:49 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:29:49 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <909635.96429.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090706102949.NH75S.184048.imail@eastrmwml40>

Ryan, I agree.  I'm of the opinion that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  No need to relegate Perk to the pine to come off the bench.  He's not a 6th man type player.  Usually, those are relegated to offensive players.  Ray Allen would fit that bill much better.  Rasheed could, as well.  And besides, starting is over rated.  It's who finishes the game that counts.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over Perkins.  Rasheed came here with a bench role and a championship in mind--he knows he's at that point in his career where he needs to be on a team where he's coming off the bench, because any team where he's starting is probably not going to be good enough to win anything...  There are plenty of minutes to go around behind Perk and KG.
> 
> Re: Lue--no one blasted you for suggesting that we merely add him....if I remember correctly, you blasted the Cs for saving 600,000 dollars and letting him go to the Bucks.  From what I remember, I pointed out that Tyronne Lue was not going to be the difference between winning and losing a championship, a maxim that is as true today as when it was first uttered.  He's not a BAD signing at the minimum, but he's a terrible player nonetheless (terrible in a steady, veteran way) and I'd rather have Pruitt or Hudson getting those minutes instead of him, assuming he can lower himself and take the minimum (something he couldn't do last season, when we were the defending champs).  If Grant Hill comes here, my hope would be that he takes over most of the backup point guard duties anyway, allowing House to play his natural shooting guard spot (and guarding the point guard of the other team), and rendering Lue this year's less cool version of Sam Cassell.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/6/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> > Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:46 AM
> > 
> > On Jul 6, 2009, at 6:55:49 AM, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the
> > pine to start off games next year.
> > --------------
> > 
> > Pat, you are probably right. ?Don't forget, the Celts
> > actually attempted to trade Perk, along with
> > Ray Allen and Rondo... to no avail. ?
> > 
> > Several months ago, prior to the Celts feeling they had no
> > shot at Rasheed, their FA plan
> > (dictated by allowed exceptions) included Grant ?Hill
> > whose Orlando pal, Rivers,
> > felt was in the bag for?cheap dollars, along with
> > ?McDyess,?whom Danny had attempted 
> > to?sign last year, but felt we maybe had a chance to sign
> > him this year.?
> > 
> > The fact that we have now attracted Rasheed plus almost
> > certainly Grant Hill, is a
> > real plus, even though Rasheed is not ?one of my favorite
> > players and will
> > be 35 yrs. old by the start of next season. ?
> > 
> > As for signing Tyronn Leu, which is quite possible at the
> > Vet minimum, who was 
> > it (Hartley, MartinD, Hill, Ubi?) who blasted me for
> > merely?suggesting that we 
> > should have?added him last season? ?
> > 
> > Hey, the sun is finally shining here in Southern Maine, and
> > all is well with
> > the Celtics,,, at least for now.?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 14:34:14 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:34:14 -0400
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
In-Reply-To: <599661.89647.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090706103414.DUG3E.184093.imail@eastrmwml40>

I agree again.  Much of the Rondo immaturity pertained to things that happened long ago, save the late arrival for the team bus.  In spite of all the trade rumors, he has said the right things.  We need a tough point guard to handle the Big 4, now that Wallace is with us.  Rondo, is actually the perfect fit and appears to be much more mature-more than some writers.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
There's been a lot of speculating lately about Rondo's mental state, about whether he was 'all about the money,' 'committed to winning,' 'willing to put himself before the team,' etc.  Well, it looks like the trade rumors aren't adversely affecting him as much as they could have (some players simply go right into the tank once they learn their value is being gauged around the league)--in fact, he's taken a LEADERSHIP role this summer, agreeing to help COACH this year's summer league team (Austin Ainge, Danny's son, is going to be the head coach for the summer league and has the inside position to be the new coach in Portland).  Volunteering in the summer?  Working with the youngsters when he could be chilling on the beach?  Maybe the little Dictator is turning a leaf and maturing right before our eyes.  How precious.  Here's the article.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090705rajon_rondo_deals_with_all_trade_rumors/  

Rajon Rondo deals with all trade rumors
By Mark Murphy
Sunday, July 5, 2009 


ORLANDO, Fla. - Rajon Rondo [stats], not about to let rumors from the last month get between him and his team, has shown up as something of a celebrity coach for this week?s summer league.

The Celtics [team stats] point guard, talked about at various stages to be headed everywhere from Detroit to Zanzibar, has been asked to work with the team?s free agent point guards and to offer insights.

His agent, Bill Duffy, sent along instructions that Rondo not discuss his contract - or impending talks on an extension - with the media.

His maturity has been dissected to kingdom come, but Rondo, leaning back in the chair that was his station during yesterday morning?s scrimmage at Rollins College, seems amused by all of the fuss.

?I don?t know - sometimes I hear people say that I?m awfully young to be in the NBA, like I?m not even 23,? he said. ?Sometimes it seems like people are going at me like I?m 30, but that?s OK.?

Mention of his tardiness and subsequent fine for reporting late to a playoff game triggered a little more edge in his voice.

?Oh, they?re going to dig at things,? he said, ?but I?m not making excuses for anything, and I don?t have any regrets. I just play to win.?

He also didn?t object to flying to Orlando on Friday at the request of Celtics management, which floated the idea with the player three weeks ago. He even did some of the little things yesterday, like rebounding for Kevin Rogers while the free agent guard shot free throws.

This certainly isn?t the kind of task that a disenfranchised, about-to-be-traded star would perform.

?You hear them, but I don?t watch a lot of TV,? he said of the flurry of rumors during draft week. ?I got a lot of phone calls from friends, but I didn?t answer a lot of them. I was traveling a lot.

?But probably the biggest one was that Detroit rumor,? Rondo said of a report that had Celtics officials allegedly talking with the Pistons about a deal that would have sent Rondo and Ray Allen to Detroit for Richard Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey. ?I was on the train going from New York to Boston. I got the most calls of anything on that one.

?But you can?t prepare for it or pay too much attention to it, because it?s a business.?

And then he paused, before adding of a possible trade, ?It?s still not too late to happen.?

For the time being, though, Rondo gets to indulge in a change of perspective.

For one week, he?s a coach and a teacher.

Rondo worked on his teaching chops last month during a Nike-sponsored trip to China. For one week, he and Houston point guard Aaron Brooks taught the game to 90 Chinese youngsters, while also walking the Great Wall and enjoying a change in culture.

And now he gets to feel what a coach feels, including the frustration.

You might say that he now understands why Doc Rivers can get discouraged when what gets called in the huddle doesn?t get carried out on the floor.

?It?s frustrating when you call for something and the guys go out and turn the ball over,? Rondo said.

?But it?s only two days, and the guys are coming from different teams and systems, so it?s hard. But I?m cool. I get to look at things and learn the coach?s perspective.?

In the meantime, Rondo can also keep those nasty reports from the outside world at bay.



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 14:36:11 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:36:11 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <497067.43894.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090706103611.I9QMS.184113.imail@eastrmwml40>

Sheed will start if Perkins or Garnett goes down.  Those are the only scenarios I can see.  I really can't imagine 4 guys in the lineup who all want the rock.
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35 year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low post defender in the game.  Really?  Is that going to happen?  Perk is our defensive rock.  
> 
> Rasheed is getting old and he doesn't have a ton left in the tank...sure, he's going to have some 'turn back the clock' moments for us, hit some bit 3s, get some boards and blocks, but at his age, he shouldn't be expected to be playing starting minutes.  He's scoring and defensive punch off the bench, nothing more.  If he NEEDED to start, he would have went some place else.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:
> 
> > From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> > To: celtics at igtc.com
> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 8:51 AM
> > We'll see.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> > On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> > 
> > 
> > There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over
> > Perkins.? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 14:38:15 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:38:15 -0400
Subject: Incumbents Fighting Hard
In-Reply-To: <174244.97668.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090706103815.R8MDP.184137.imail@eastrmwml40>

Can we trade Tony Allen and Scal (as much as he's a good guy) for some new equipment-perhaps a couple of new balls and a Gatorade cooler?
---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
Interesting stuff outta summer league today.  Giddens, apparently, is having a fantastic camp so far ("he hasn't missed in two days").  Walker, from the picture on the Herald's site, looks like he's added some muscle in his upper body.  From another article, it appears that Hudson and Bryan Mullins have impressed Rondo.  Can't wait until tonight--hope that online stream works!

As for the speculation that one of Walker/Giddens might be let go or moved--I'll believe it when I see it.  I think both players make the team and at least one plays an important role next season.  Giddens, it seems, will get every chance to take TA's spot.  Walker, however, might have more trouble breaking into the lineup if Grant Hill signs.  I still think their both good prospects though and with our team trending towards old men I think it would be wise to use some of our youngsters as ying to their Old Spice yang.  If any youngster is gone, it's Pruitt--Hudson seems like the better prospect and we have an option on Pruitt.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090706incumbents_already_battling_hard/

Incumbents already battling hard
By Mark Murphy
Monday, July 6, 2009 - Added 7h ago

ORLANDO, Fla. - A.J. Abrams, cruising off the break for the New Jersey Nets, was leveled by Bill Walker when the Celtics [team stats] forward went for the ball and got a little too much body instead.

Abrams crashed face-first to the floor, and didn?t get up for a good five minutes. That was enough for both sides to agree the time was right to cancel the rest of an informal Saturday night scrimmage. While Abrams was taken to a local hospital for tests, Walker returned to practice yesterday with the C?s summer league team at Rollins College.

Now that the Celtics have reached an agreement with free agent Rasheed Wallace, general manager Danny Ainge searches for possible candidates for the $1.3 million veteran and $1.9 million biannual exceptions, roster spots are at a premium.

There?s no guarantee that all three incumbents on the summer league roster - Gabe Pruitt, J.R. Giddens and Walker - will return.

Though Giddens and Walker couldn?t be more different - an athletic, smooth-shooting 2-guard who can defend smaller 3s; and a natural small forward with a power game - ultimately only one may stick. Point guard Pruitt is facing challenges from rookie Lester Hudson and free agent Bryan Mullins.

?Honestly we?re looking at all of them,? coach Doc Rivers said. ?We?re going to improve this team. If that means keeping both of them or just keeping one, whatever is best for the team is what we?re going for.?

Thus the added edge. Giddens, with three eye-popping blocks on jump shooters to his credit, seemingly hasn?t missed in two days of practice. Walker isn?t taking prisoners, though he disputes that the added pressure is influencing his play.

?This is just how I was taught to play ever since I was young,? said Walker. ?Not a lot of guys like to play physical. They like to be comfortable on the court and do their thing. I just play a different brand of basketball.?

Giddens hasn?t needed much time to set himself apart over the last two days. Both Ainge and Rivers have singled out the swingman?s ability to elevate his game this summer, and the situation only seems to be drawing out his best.

?If I get my work in and do what I do, then you shouldn?t worry about the competition,? said Giddens. ?You just worry about yourself. When that time comes, all the preparation is going to show.

?I can?t worry about who they?re going to bring in or try to sign. I just have to worry about being the best player that I can be, and whatever situation they want to put me in, I just have to be successful.?

The good news for the coaching staff is that this group appears to have hit a high energy level quickly, with the first summer league game set for tonight against Utah.

Not every summer league starts this way, however.

?If you?re in the summer league, then that means you?re fighting for your job,? said Rivers.

?What gets me is that they?re not all this competitive. They all should be, but for some reason some are more competitive than others.?



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 14:51:24 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:51:24 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <497067.43894.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA4E986E.334B.4AF5.93FC.3213499A8DEC@aol.com>


On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:07:16 AM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35 year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low post defender in the game.
-----------

All depends upon what we promised Sheed in order to sign him. ?After all, aren't Danny,
Wyc, Doc flattering painters who draw FAs as they want to be, not what they are?

Egg

From tsb33 at windstream.net  Mon Jul  6 14:52:53 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (Troy)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:52:53 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <200907061055.n66AtplM010291@ares.afrc.af.mil>
References: <C3A7F9B582FC49829E2007885F384763@BradysPC>
	<200907061055.n66AtplM010291@ares.afrc.af.mil>
Message-ID: <295864C9FB59456F99CB52712667F462@BradysPC>

NOTTA ChANCE!!	Zero, zilch, he is our 6th man!!!  Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:56 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!

Okay, I'll say it and get the lines humming.

Sheed ain't coming off the bench. As Austin Powers might say "that's a
starter baby...".  Disagree if you like, but I have a sinking feeling that a
big part of this wasn't "you can be our big 6th man" and while KG maybe
"useta could" play the three (Ray Allen as the 6th man - now that's a plan)
- I don't think he can anymore. This would've been an excellent way to
matchup with this year's Magic teams (KG COULD guard Turk in his sleep at
the 3) for example, and Sheed vs Lewis or KG vs Turk on the block would've
been a huge advantage for the Cs, but overall it now creates something of an
interesting problem.

I might be way wrong, but I think this puts Perk...on the pine to start off
games next year.


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Troy
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!

 

Sheed is a huge catch, he fills 3 needs in one!  Backup C, backup 4 and a 3
pt shooter to spread the floor.   The 2 year deal is great too.  I thought
it would take 3 years to get it done.    I am not sold on Grant Hill at all.
He is not a defensive stopper, can't shoot the 3 well and at this point in
his career doesn't do anything very well.  I would much rather offer M.
Daniels, A. Parker, M. Carroll and several other names a contract over Hill.
But this is a great day!!   Hopefully we still sign Baby for now and the
future and this will be a very, very good offseason!!   Troy

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.5/2220 - Release Date: 07/05/09 17:54:00

From noah.evans at gmail.com  Mon Jul  6 14:53:28 2009
From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:53:28 +0200
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <949821.30620.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.119.1246888961.2369.celtics@igtc.com>
	<949821.30620.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56a297000907060753g6c160592wf7c743caa8eef619@mail.gmail.com>

People are assuming KG is fully healthy. We won't really know until
the season starts. Wallace could end up starting at the 4.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:18 PM, steve knight<stevebknight at yahoo.com> wrote:
> agree with ryan. no way wallace starts over perk. if you hadn't noticed, perk was a rock in the playoffs. sure, he has warts, but he's all we have to defend the true bigs. plenty of room for all to get minutes.
>
> in fact, i'd be surprised if wallace gets 20 minutes a game throughout the season if everyone stays healthy, just to make sure he is fresh for the playoffs.
>
> Message: 12Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:51:37 -0400
> From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> To: <celtics at igtc.com>
> Message-ID: <200907061351.n66DpgJr006869 at poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> We'll see.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
>
>
> There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over Perkins.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:55:36 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:55:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Incumbents Fighting Hard
Message-ID: <947021.78548.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Until training camp comes, I think both guys are important.  TA will push Giddens and make him work for a role on the team--TA is also great Ray Allen/Paul Pierce insurance, should one or both suffer an injury (and aren't we about due for that to happen?).  Scal, as well, has value, especially if Davis isn't resigned.

If TA/Scal/House get traded, it'll be midseason when our team needs are more readily apparent.  We should able to trade them to teams looking to save some money--and by paying half their salary first (which we'd do if we traded them in Feb.) they become more attractive pieces.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Incumbents Fighting Hard
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:38 AM
> Can we trade Tony Allen and Scal (as
> much as he's a good guy) for some new equipment-perhaps a
> couple of new balls and a Gatorade cooler?
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> Interesting stuff outta summer league today.? Giddens,
> apparently, is having a fantastic camp so far ("he hasn't
> missed in two days").? Walker, from the picture on the
> Herald's site, looks like he's added some muscle in his
> upper body.? From another article, it appears that
> Hudson and Bryan Mullins have impressed Rondo.? Can't
> wait until tonight--hope that online stream works!
> 
> As for the speculation that one of Walker/Giddens might be
> let go or moved--I'll believe it when I see it.? I
> think both players make the team and at least one plays an
> important role next season.? Giddens, it seems, will
> get every chance to take TA's spot.? Walker, however,
> might have more trouble breaking into the lineup if Grant
> Hill signs.? I still think their both good prospects
> though and with our team trending towards old men I think it
> would be wise to use some of our youngsters as ying to their
> Old Spice yang.? If any youngster is gone, it's
> Pruitt--Hudson seems like the better prospect and we have an
> option on Pruitt.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090706incumbents_already_battling_hard/
> 
> Incumbents already battling hard
> By Mark Murphy
> Monday, July 6, 2009 - Added 7h ago
> 
> ORLANDO, Fla. - A.J. Abrams, cruising off the break for the
> New Jersey Nets, was leveled by Bill Walker when the Celtics
> [team stats] forward went for the ball and got a little too
> much body instead.
> 
> Abrams crashed face-first to the floor, and didn?t get up
> for a good five minutes. That was enough for both sides to
> agree the time was right to cancel the rest of an informal
> Saturday night scrimmage. While Abrams was taken to a local
> hospital for tests, Walker returned to practice yesterday
> with the C?s summer league team at Rollins College.
> 
> Now that the Celtics have reached an agreement with free
> agent Rasheed Wallace, general manager Danny Ainge searches
> for possible candidates for the $1.3 million veteran and
> $1.9 million biannual exceptions, roster spots are at a
> premium.
> 
> There?s no guarantee that all three incumbents on the
> summer league roster - Gabe Pruitt, J.R. Giddens and Walker
> - will return.
> 
> Though Giddens and Walker couldn?t be more different - an
> athletic, smooth-shooting 2-guard who can defend smaller 3s;
> and a natural small forward with a power game - ultimately
> only one may stick. Point guard Pruitt is facing challenges
> from rookie Lester Hudson and free agent Bryan Mullins.
> 
> ?Honestly we?re looking at all of them,? coach Doc
> Rivers said. ?We?re going to improve this team. If that
> means keeping both of them or just keeping one, whatever is
> best for the team is what we?re going for.?
> 
> Thus the added edge. Giddens, with three eye-popping blocks
> on jump shooters to his credit, seemingly hasn?t missed in
> two days of practice. Walker isn?t taking prisoners,
> though he disputes that the added pressure is influencing
> his play.
> 
> ?This is just how I was taught to play ever since I was
> young,? said Walker. ?Not a lot of guys like to play
> physical. They like to be comfortable on the court and do
> their thing. I just play a different brand of
> basketball.?
> 
> Giddens hasn?t needed much time to set himself apart over
> the last two days. Both Ainge and Rivers have singled out
> the swingman?s ability to elevate his game this summer,
> and the situation only seems to be drawing out his best.
> 
> ?If I get my work in and do what I do, then you
> shouldn?t worry about the competition,? said Giddens.
> ?You just worry about yourself. When that time comes, all
> the preparation is going to show.
> 
> ?I can?t worry about who they?re going to bring in or
> try to sign. I just have to worry about being the best
> player that I can be, and whatever situation they want to
> put me in, I just have to be successful.?
> 
> The good news for the coaching staff is that this group
> appears to have hit a high energy level quickly, with the
> first summer league game set for tonight against Utah.
> 
> Not every summer league starts this way, however.
> 
> ?If you?re in the summer league, then that means
> you?re fighting for your job,? said Rivers.
> 
> ?What gets me is that they?re not all this competitive.
> They all should be, but for some reason some are more
> competitive than others.?
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 14:57:36 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sheed/perk
Message-ID: <776262.97606.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


According to Wyc, KG was back to his old crazy ass self about 3 days after surgery, and was doing about 90% of his usual offseason training program.  It sounds like he'll be fine, but I guess nothing can be trusted that comes out of Wyc's mouth, so we'll have to wait until training camp.

That said, Rasheed is a great KG insurance policy.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Noah Evans <noah.evans at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: sheed/perk
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:53 AM
> People are assuming KG is fully
> healthy. We won't really know until
> the season starts. Wallace could end up starting at the 4.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:18 PM, steve knight<stevebknight at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > agree with ryan. no way wallace starts over perk. if
> you hadn't noticed, perk was a rock in the playoffs. sure,
> he has warts, but he's all we have to defend the true bigs.
> plenty of room for all to get minutes.
> >
> > in fact, i'd be surprised if wallace gets 20 minutes a
> game throughout the season if everyone stays healthy, just
> to make sure he is fresh for the playoffs.
> >
> > Message: 12Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:51:37 -0400
> > From: <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> > Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> > To: <celtics at igtc.com>
> > Message-ID: <200907061351.n66DpgJr006869 at poseidon.afrc.af.mil>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > We'll see.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of Ryan W
> > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:47 AM
> > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> >
> >
> > There is absolutely no way Rasheed starts over
> Perkins.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil  Mon Jul  6 14:59:36 2009
From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:59:36 -0400
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
In-Reply-To: <CA4E986E.334B.4AF5.93FC.3213499A8DEC@aol.com>
References: <497067.43894.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<CA4E986E.334B.4AF5.93FC.3213499A8DEC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200907061459.n66ExetL018028@poseidon.afrc.af.mil>

Let's separate it from what "we" think or expect or would do. I too would not start Sheed over Perk, but as Egg says below we have no idea what was promised to a guy that by all intents and purposes, is not one you jerk around.  Perhaps he was only promised a support role and was fine with that, but I'm not sure I'd believe that. Sales by non-salesmen often get caught up in the emotion of the sale - can't you just hear KG "you and me defending the paint together man, beautiful" - an open ended statement without context or detail that could be construed to mean anything from mop up duty to 48 minutes per game.

I just don't want people to be surprised if come November the PA announcer goes..."and starting at PF, Raaaaaaaaaaaaaasheed WAAAAlllace."


-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of eggcentric
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:51 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!


On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:07:16 AM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35 year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low post defender in the game.
-----------

All depends upon what we promised Sheed in order to sign him. ?After all, aren't Danny,
Wyc, Doc flattering painters who draw FAs as they want to be, not what they are?

Egg
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 15:01:38 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
Message-ID: <160560.19713.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


Yeah, anything's possible.  Remember, however, that Sheed is the ultimate team player and throughout his career has basically underachieved on account of his unselfishness.  So now, at 35, he's going to potentially upset a championship contender with a demand to start over a player that he truly must know--if his BBIQ is as great as it's made out to be--is a better fit in the starting lineup?  I just don't buy it.  

We'll just have to wait upon the press conference coming on Wed or Thurs (which should be a doozey--Rasheed is hilarious) and see what's said and go from there...  

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:

> From: eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com>
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:51 AM
> 
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:07:16 AM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35
> year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who
> can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in
> and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low
> post defender in the game.
> -----------
> 
> All depends upon what we promised Sheed in order to sign
> him. ?After all, aren't Danny,
> Wyc, Doc flattering painters who draw FAs as they want to
> be, not what they are?
> 
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From tsb33 at windstream.net  Mon Jul  6 15:02:44 2009
From: tsb33 at windstream.net (Troy)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:02:44 -0400
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
In-Reply-To: <599661.89647.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <599661.89647.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7F5AEBA0944A423C8387B246E5920FBA@BradysPC>

Maybe all these rumors of his "troubles" this summer was just that,
Nothing but Rumors!!!!   Rondo is not a bad kid, he plays way to hard to
have that kind of attitude!  

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf
Of Ryan W
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:02 AM
To: celtics at igtc.com
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes


There's been a lot of speculating lately about Rondo's mental state, about
whether he was 'all about the money,' 'committed to winning,' 'willing to
put himself before the team,' etc.  Well, it looks like the trade rumors
aren't adversely affecting him as much as they could have (some players
simply go right into the tank once they learn their value is being gauged
around the league)--in fact, he's taken a LEADERSHIP role this summer,
agreeing to help COACH this year's summer league team (Austin Ainge, Danny's
son, is going to be the head coach for the summer league and has the inside
position to be the new coach in Portland).  Volunteering in the summer?
Working with the youngsters when he could be chilling on the beach?  Maybe
the little Dictator is turning a leaf and maturing right before our eyes.
How precious.  Here's the article.

Ryan

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090705rajon_ron
do_deals_with_all_trade_rumors/  

Rajon Rondo deals with all trade rumors
By Mark Murphy
Sunday, July 5, 2009 


ORLANDO, Fla. - Rajon Rondo [stats], not about to let rumors from the last
month get between him and his team, has shown up as something of a celebrity
coach for this week's summer league.

The Celtics [team stats] point guard, talked about at various stages to be
headed everywhere from Detroit to Zanzibar, has been asked to work with the
team's free agent point guards and to offer insights.

His agent, Bill Duffy, sent along instructions that Rondo not discuss his
contract - or impending talks on an extension - with the media.

His maturity has been dissected to kingdom come, but Rondo, leaning back in
the chair that was his station during yesterday morning's scrimmage at
Rollins College, seems amused by all of the fuss.

"I don't know - sometimes I hear people say that I'm awfully young to be in
the NBA, like I'm not even 23," he said. "Sometimes it seems like people are
going at me like I'm 30, but that's OK."

Mention of his tardiness and subsequent fine for reporting late to a playoff
game triggered a little more edge in his voice.

"Oh, they're going to dig at things," he said, "but I'm not making excuses
for anything, and I don't have any regrets. I just play to win."

He also didn't object to flying to Orlando on Friday at the request of
Celtics management, which floated the idea with the player three weeks ago.
He even did some of the little things yesterday, like rebounding for Kevin
Rogers while the free agent guard shot free throws.

This certainly isn't the kind of task that a disenfranchised,
about-to-be-traded star would perform.

"You hear them, but I don't watch a lot of TV," he said of the flurry of
rumors during draft week. "I got a lot of phone calls from friends, but I
didn't answer a lot of them. I was traveling a lot.

"But probably the biggest one was that Detroit rumor," Rondo said of a
report that had Celtics officials allegedly talking with the Pistons about a
deal that would have sent Rondo and Ray Allen to Detroit for Richard
Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey. "I was on the train going from
New York to Boston. I got the most calls of anything on that one.

"But you can't prepare for it or pay too much attention to it, because it's
a business."

And then he paused, before adding of a possible trade, "It's still not too
late to happen."

For the time being, though, Rondo gets to indulge in a change of
perspective.

For one week, he's a coach and a teacher.

Rondo worked on his teaching chops last month during a Nike-sponsored trip
to China. For one week, he and Houston point guard Aaron Brooks taught the
game to 90 Chinese youngsters, while also walking the Great Wall and
enjoying a change in culture.

And now he gets to feel what a coach feels, including the frustration.

You might say that he now understands why Doc Rivers can get discouraged
when what gets called in the huddle doesn't get carried out on the floor.

"It's frustrating when you call for something and the guys go out and turn
the ball over," Rondo said.

"But it's only two days, and the guys are coming from different teams and
systems, so it's hard. But I'm cool. I get to look at things and learn the
coach's perspective."

In the meantime, Rondo can also keep those nasty reports from the outside
world at bay.



      

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.5/2220 - Release Date: 07/05/09 17:54:00

From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 15:08:07 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:08:07 -0400
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <56a297000907060753g6c160592wf7c743caa8eef619@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <620AC757.888E.4644.A616.DD0D474EA691@aol.com>


On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:53:28 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

People are assuming KG is fully healthy. We won't really know until
the season starts. Wallace could end up starting at the 4.
----------

Good thought, Noah. ?Our team is all about spin and future ticket sales. At the rate in which 
Danny changes his mind, I dread predicting just about?anything, ?But for what it's worth, 
i did hear a week or so ago that the Celts promised?Rasheed a starting spot. ?Just not sure 
whether it was to replace Perk or ?Garnett,

Egg

From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 15:09:35 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:09:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
Message-ID: <970866.90481.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


See, that's where this question unravels--both KG and Rasheed are power forwards!  Neither one, at this point of their career, is going to willingly ask for starting center duties.  We know Garnett doesn't want it and that he loves Perk on account of his ability to body all the behemoths in the league.  Rasheed has pretty much the same body type as Garnett and, being as unselfish as he is, I don't see why he'd want to unseat Perk.

Pat, I think you're reading too much into this--taking Rasheed's volatility and extrapolating outrageous demands from it.  Danny, for one, doesn't get intimidated by anyone--and I severely doubt the guarantee of a starting spot was a part of the contract negotiations.

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil> wrote:

> From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil <Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil>
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:59 AM
> Let's separate it from what "we"
> think or expect or would do. I too would not start Sheed
> over Perk, but as Egg says below we have no idea what was
> promised to a guy that by all intents and purposes, is not
> one you jerk around.? Perhaps he was only promised a
> support role and was fine with that, but I'm not sure I'd
> believe that. Sales by non-salesmen often get caught up in
> the emotion of the sale - can't you just hear KG "you and me
> defending the paint together man, beautiful" - an open ended
> statement without context or detail that could be construed
> to mean anything from mop up duty to 48 minutes per game.
> 
> I just don't want people to be surprised if come November
> the PA announcer goes..."and starting at PF,
> Raaaaaaaaaaaaaasheed WAAAAlllace."
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com
> [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com]
> On Behalf Of eggcentric
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Sheed Great, Hill I just don't see it!
> 
> 
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:07:16 AM, "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Regardless of the ego involved, I just don't see how a 35
> year old player, whose legs are apparently 'shot' and who
> can't effective blitz the pick-and-roll, is going to come in
> and take the starting center spot from perhaps the best low
> post defender in the game.
> -----------
> 
> All depends upon what we promised Sheed in order to sign
> him. ?After all, aren't Danny,
> Wyc, Doc flattering painters who draw FAs as they want to
> be, not what they are?
> 
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 


      


From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 15:14:41 2009
From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
Message-ID: <392338.13905.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


With our team being coming an Old Spice commercial in the flesh, Rondo is BY FAR the most important player going into next season.  It'll be his youth, urgency, and spark that will push and prod all the old guys into further glory. Rondo, as always, is the KEY.  With Wallace now added to the arsenal, we can pretty much book an All-Star appearance for Rondo.  Wallace/KG/Ray/Paul can just clear the lane, set up on the perimeter, and wait for Rondo to penetrate, dish, or shot a layup.  Rondo's going to average 10+ assists easy next season...

Ryan

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:

> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:34 AM
> I agree again.? Much of the
> Rondo immaturity pertained to things that happened long ago,
> save the late arrival for the team bus.? In spite of
> all the trade rumors, he has said the right things.? We
> need a tough point guard to handle the Big 4, now that
> Wallace is with us.? Rondo, is actually the perfect fit
> and appears to be much more mature-more than some writers.
> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > 
> There's been a lot of speculating lately about Rondo's
> mental state, about whether he was 'all about the money,'
> 'committed to winning,' 'willing to put himself before the
> team,' etc.? Well, it looks like the trade rumors
> aren't adversely affecting him as much as they could have
> (some players simply go right into the tank once they learn
> their value is being gauged around the league)--in fact,
> he's taken a LEADERSHIP role this summer, agreeing to help
> COACH this year's summer league team (Austin Ainge, Danny's
> son, is going to be the head coach for the summer league and
> has the inside position to be the new coach in
> Portland).? Volunteering in the summer?? Working
> with the youngsters when he could be chilling on the
> beach?? Maybe the little Dictator is turning a leaf and
> maturing right before our eyes.? How precious.?
> Here's the article.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20090705rajon_rondo_deals_with_all_trade_rumors/?
> 
> 
> Rajon Rondo deals with all trade rumors
> By Mark Murphy
> Sunday, July 5, 2009 
> 
> 
> ORLANDO, Fla. - Rajon Rondo [stats], not about to let
> rumors from the last month get between him and his team, has
> shown up as something of a celebrity coach for this week?s
> summer league.
> 
> The Celtics [team stats] point guard, talked about at
> various stages to be headed everywhere from Detroit to
> Zanzibar, has been asked to work with the team?s free
> agent point guards and to offer insights.
> 
> His agent, Bill Duffy, sent along instructions that Rondo
> not discuss his contract - or impending talks on an
> extension - with the media.
> 
> His maturity has been dissected to kingdom come, but Rondo,
> leaning back in the chair that was his station during
> yesterday morning?s scrimmage at Rollins College, seems
> amused by all of the fuss.
> 
> ?I don?t know - sometimes I hear people say that I?m
> awfully young to be in the NBA, like I?m not even 23,?
> he said. ?Sometimes it seems like people are going at me
> like I?m 30, but that?s OK.?
> 
> Mention of his tardiness and subsequent fine for reporting
> late to a playoff game triggered a little more edge in his
> voice.
> 
> ?Oh, they?re going to dig at things,? he said, ?but
> I?m not making excuses for anything, and I don?t have
> any regrets. I just play to win.?
> 
> He also didn?t object to flying to Orlando on Friday at
> the request of Celtics management, which floated the idea
> with the player three weeks ago. He even did some of the
> little things yesterday, like rebounding for Kevin Rogers
> while the free agent guard shot free throws.
> 
> This certainly isn?t the kind of task that a
> disenfranchised, about-to-be-traded star would perform.
> 
> ?You hear them, but I don?t watch a lot of TV,? he
> said of the flurry of rumors during draft week. ?I got a
> lot of phone calls from friends, but I didn?t answer a lot
> of them. I was traveling a lot.
> 
> ?But probably the biggest one was that Detroit rumor,?
> Rondo said of a report that had Celtics officials allegedly
> talking with the Pistons about a deal that would have sent
> Rondo and Ray Allen to Detroit for Richard Hamilton,
> Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey. ?I was on the train
> going from New York to Boston. I got the most calls of
> anything on that one.
> 
> ?But you can?t prepare for it or pay too much attention
> to it, because it?s a business.?
> 
> And then he paused, before adding of a possible trade,
> ?It?s still not too late to happen.?
> 
> For the time being, though, Rondo gets to indulge in a
> change of perspective.
> 
> For one week, he?s a coach and a teacher.
> 
> Rondo worked on his teaching chops last month during a
> Nike-sponsored trip to China. For one week, he and Houston
> point guard Aaron Brooks taught the game to 90 Chinese
> youngsters, while also walking the Great Wall and enjoying a
> change in culture.
> 
> And now he gets to feel what a coach feels, including the
> frustration.
> 
> You might say that he now understands why Doc Rivers can
> get discouraged when what gets called in the huddle
> doesn?t get carried out on the floor.
> 
> ?It?s frustrating when you call for something and the
> guys go out and turn the ball over,? Rondo said.
> 
> ?But it?s only two days, and the guys are coming from
> different teams and systems, so it?s hard. But I?m cool.
> I get to look at things and learn the coach?s
> perspective.?
> 
> In the meantime, Rondo can also keep those nasty reports
> from the outside world at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> 
> 


      


From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 15:14:28 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:14:28 -0400
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
In-Reply-To: <7F5AEBA0944A423C8387B246E5920FBA@BradysPC>
Message-ID: <60F1D0AF.2CC6.4CEB.951B.403DE51B6EF5@aol.com>


On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:02:44 AM, Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:

Maybe all these rumors of his "troubles" this summer was just that,
Nothing but Rumors!!!!
-----------

And also several statements out of Danny and Doc??

From jwhite128 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  6 15:24:02 2009
From: jwhite128 at gmail.com (Jeff White)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:24:02 -0400
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <620AC757.888E.4644.A616.DD0D474EA691@aol.com>
References: <56a297000907060753g6c160592wf7c743caa8eef619@mail.gmail.com>
	<620AC757.888E.4644.A616.DD0D474EA691@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1923cbc90907060824v62d3d86vc78b59bac6fd3e3c@mail.gmail.com>

Just curious, Ms. Egg: Which NBA teams are not "all about spin and future
ticket sales"?  What franchise should the evil Celtics be emulating?

On 7/6/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:53:28 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> People are assuming KG is fully healthy. We won't really know until
> the season starts. Wallace could end up starting at the 4.
> ----------
>
> Good thought, Noah.  Our team is all about spin and future ticket sales. At
> the rate in which
> Danny changes his mind, I dread predicting just about anything,  But for
> what it's worth,
> i did hear a week or so ago that the Celts promised Rasheed a starting
> spot.  Just not sure
> whether it was to replace Perk or  Garnett,
>
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>

From eggcentric at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 15:30:05 2009
From: eggcentric at aol.com (eggcentric)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:30:05 -0400
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90907060824v62d3d86vc78b59bac6fd3e3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <780D2624.F389.4487.8AD0.040F41BB7A28@aol.com>


On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:24:02 AM, "Jeff White" <jwhite128 at gmail.com> wrote:

Just curious, Ms. Egg: Which NBA teams are not "all about spin and future
ticket sales"? What franchise should the evil Celtics be emulating?
------------

If you have to ask, you'll never know. ?I take the fifth... don't do hostile questions. ?

Am off now ... see you all tomorrow?

Egg

From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 15:31:44 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:31:44 -0400
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
In-Reply-To: <60F1D0AF.2CC6.4CEB.951B.403DE51B6EF5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090706113144.SJPIX.184917.imail@eastrmwml40>

Which were much ado about nothing.  Wow, a late arrival at a bus, and crap from years past.
---- eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote: 
> 
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:02:44 AM, Troy <tsb33 at windstream.net> wrote:
> 
> Maybe all these rumors of his "troubles" this summer was just that,
> Nothing but Rumors!!!!
> -----------
> 
> And also several statements out of Danny and Doc??
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From martind42 at cox.net  Mon Jul  6 15:33:17 2009
From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:33:17 -0400
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90907060824v62d3d86vc78b59bac6fd3e3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090706113317.20F9B.184953.imail@eastrmwml40>

Only the Celtics.  We are the only spinners, painters and team who make the wrong decisions.  And that's from the 2008 GM of the year.  Can you imagine if Chris Wallce were back? Or Thanks Dad?
---- Jeff White <jwhite128 at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Just curious, Ms. Egg: Which NBA teams are not "all about spin and future
> ticket sales"?  What franchise should the evil Celtics be emulating?
> 
> On 7/6/09, eggcentric <eggcentric at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:53:28 AM, "Noah Evans" <noah.evans at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > People are assuming KG is fully healthy. We won't really know until
> > the season starts. Wallace could end up starting at the 4.
> > ----------
> >
> > Good thought, Noah.  Our team is all about spin and future ticket sales. At
> > the rate in which
> > Danny changes his mind, I dread predicting just about anything,  But for
> > what it's worth,
> > i did hear a week or so ago that the Celts promised Rasheed a starting
> > spot.  Just not sure
> > whether it was to replace Perk or  Garnett,
> >
> > Egg
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
> >
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics


From shizzjr at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  6 15:58:07 2009
From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:58:07 -0400
Subject: sheed/perk
In-Reply-To: <780D2624.F389.4487.8AD0.040F41BB7A28@aol.com>
References: <1923cbc90907060824v62d3d86vc78b59bac6fd3e3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<780D2624.F389.4487.8AD0.040F41BB7A28@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W52F61F9ECBD8E362F10BE7A52B0@phx.gbl>


You should know better Jeff. Egg doesn't answer questions that would actually cause her to back up her communist like drivel. How dare you ask her such a thing?


 
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:30:05 -0400
> Subject: Re: sheed/perk
> From: eggcentric at aol.com
> To: celtics at igtc.com
> 
> 
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:24:02 AM, "Jeff White" <jwhite128 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Just curious, Ms. Egg: Which NBA teams are not "all about spin and future
> ticket sales"? What franchise should the evil Celtics be emulating?
> ------------
> 
> If you have to ask, you'll never know.  I take the fifth... don't do hostile questions.  
> 
> Am off now ... see you all tomorrow?
> 
> Egg
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

From jlyell at verizon.net  Mon Jul  6 16:11:54 2009
From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:11:54 -0700
Subject: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
In-Reply-To: <392338.13905.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <392338.13905.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E39AABC6-B60B-4E65-BDBB-DB817A04AE88@verizon.net>

Rondo's perimeter scoring ability will be key. I heard he was working  
on this in the off season



On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> With our team being coming an Old Spice commercial in the flesh,  
> Rondo is BY FAR the most important player going into next season.   
> It'll be his youth, urgency, and spark that will push and prod all  
> the old guys into further glory. Rondo, as always, is the KEY.  With  
> Wallace now added to the arsenal, we can pretty much book an All- 
> Star appearance for Rondo.  Wallace/KG/Ray/Paul can just clear the  
> lane, set up on the perimeter, and wait for Rondo to penetrate,  
> dish, or shot a layup.  Rondo's going to average 10+ assists easy  
> next season...
>
> Ryan
>
> --- On Mon, 7/6/09, martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> From: martind42 at cox.net <martind42 at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: Rondo Maturing Before Our Eyes
>> To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" <celtics at igtc.com>
>> Cc: "Ryan W" <ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:34 AM
>> I agree again.  Much of the
>> Rondo immaturity pertained to things that happened long ago,
>> save the late arrival for the team bus.  In spite of
>> all the trade rumors, he has said the right things.  We
>> need a tough point guard to handle the Big 4, now that
>> Wallace is with us.  Rondo, is actually the perfect fit
>> and appears to be much more mature-more than some writers.
>> ---- Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i at y