From BDodgers at aol.com Mon Feb 2 22:24:07 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:24:07 EST Subject: Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks Message-ID: Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks NEW YORK -- _Los Angeles Lakers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) center _Andrew Bynum_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) will miss eight to 12 weeks after tearing the medial collateral ligament in his right knee. Bynum was hurt in the first quarter of Saturday night's win at Memphis. _Kobe Bryant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110) drove to the basket, missed the shot and crashed into Bynum's right leg. Bynum immediately grabbed his knee. Sheridan: Kobe Holds Hope Kobe Bryant still believes the Lakers are NBA championship material -- even without Andrew Bynum, Chris Sheridan writes. _Column_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3879734) Bynum is the Lakers' third-leading scorer and second-leading rebounder, averaging 14.0 points, 8.2 rebounds and 1.9 blocks. The 7-foot, 285-pound Bynum's injury brought back bad memories of last season for the Lakers. He went down in mid-January and was expected to be sidelined eight to 12 weeks after bruising a bone in his knee and briefly dislocating his kneecap. Instead, he missed the final 46 games of the season, as the Lakers lost in the NBA Finals. He underwent arthroscopic surgery May 21 to remove cartilage debris and smooth some rough spots on the underside of his kneecap. "This is a team that went to the Finals last year that we put on the floor, so they're confident in what they can do," coach Phil Jackson said at the Lakers' shootaround Monday afternoon, before they announced the severity of the injury. "We know we're going to miss his presence, his rebounding ability. But this is a very capable team." The injury came as the 21-year-old seemed to be taking a major step forward in his fourth NBA season. The Scott Van Pelt Show Andrew Bynum will miss eight to 12 weeks, but John Ireland doesn't think it's going to be a big deal. Ireland says that's what everyone thought last year. In the five games before he was hurt, he was averaging 26.2 points, 13.8 rebounds and 3.2 blocks and shooting 65.3 percent from the field. "It changes our team, and the rhythm that we're playing with," Bryant said at the shootaround. "Obviously we found a great rhythm there with him in the lineup, particularly the last week or so. So we're going to have to make some adjustments." Bryant insisted the Lakers could still win a title without Bynum. "There are teams that lost in the Finals that go back and win the next year," he said. "I think having Andrew in the lineup makes us a dominant team. "With him out of the lineup, we're still a great team. You put him in the mix, it takes us to another level." **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 22:56:40 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:56:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: I'm Surprised No One Has Mentioned Brad Miller As A Possible Celtics Big Man Message-ID: <731845.33765.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Good for Mark Murphy for mentioning the possibility of the Celtics acquiring Brad Miller. The difficulty of course is Brad's large contract and the lack of moveable large salaries on the Celtics to exchange for him. The other problem with a straight up Celtics - Kings deal is the availability of roster space. For instance, the Celtics could do a T. Allen, Scalabrine, House, Davis, POB and Walker for Miller deal, but the Kings would have to waive several players to fit in the oncoming Celtics. And of course, LOL, Ainge would have to replenish the Celtics bench, perhaps with Marbury and Wells, etc. However, if a 3rd or 4th team was involved (say the Grizzlies), whom have two extra roster spaces available, the deal become more plausible, especially if the Celtics were willing to include 3 M. in cash and a future Lottery-protected first, then there's some room to maneuver. Ray From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Feb 2 23:19:44 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:19:44 -0500 Subject: Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KEG0079TOSVLNL2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Gotta admit that if I was Bynum, I would NOT be sending Kobe a Valentines Day card.First he throws him under the bus (back in the pre-trade for the llama days when Kobe was taking about why he wanted to leave), then he takes out his knee. I mean where is the love? People harp on Perk's shoulder, with legit concern, but Bynum coming up with knee injuries is starting to look just as chronic and maybe a bigger concern, given the pounding they take in every play and how frequent banging knees is. Perk's shoulder requires a bit less common a set of circumstances to go out, and even when it does, well he played from LA (the original injury this time) through Cleveland and someone pulling on it hard before he had to throw in the towel. Perk doesn't quite have a glass shoulder but this is starting to look like a glass knee for Bynum. Pity, tough break for him. At 05:24 PM 2/2/2009, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: > >Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks > >NEW YORK -- _Los Angeles Lakers_ >(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) center _Andrew Bynum_ >(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) will >miss eight to 12 weeks after tearing the medial >collateral ligament in his right knee. > >Bynum was hurt in the first quarter of Saturday night's win at Memphis. _Kobe > Bryant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110) drove >to the basket, missed the shot and crashed into Bynum's right leg. Bynum >immediately grabbed his knee. > > >Sheridan: Kobe Holds Hope >Kobe Bryant still believes the Lakers are NBA championship material -- even >without Andrew Bynum, Chris Sheridan writes. _Column_ >(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3879734) > >Bynum is the Lakers' third-leading scorer and second-leading rebounder, >averaging 14.0 points, 8.2 rebounds and 1.9 blocks. >The 7-foot, 285-pound Bynum's injury brought back bad memories of last season > for the Lakers. >He went down in mid-January and was expected to be sidelined eight to 12 >weeks after bruising a bone in his knee and briefly dislocating his kneecap. >Instead, he missed the final 46 games of the season, as the Lakers lost in >the NBA Finals. He underwent arthroscopic surgery May 21 to remove cartilage >debris and smooth some rough spots on the underside of his kneecap. >"This is a team that went to the Finals last year that we put on the floor, >so they're confident in what they can do," coach Phil Jackson said at the >Lakers' shootaround Monday afternoon, before they announced the >severity of the >injury. "We know we're going to miss his presence, his rebounding >ability. But > this is a very capable team." >The injury came as the 21-year-old seemed to be taking a major step forward >in his fourth NBA season. > > >The Scott Van Pelt Show > >Andrew Bynum will miss eight to 12 weeks, but John Ireland doesn't think it's > going to be a big deal. Ireland says that's what everyone thought > last year. >In the five games before he was hurt, he was averaging 26.2 points, 13.8 >rebounds and 3.2 blocks and shooting 65.3 percent from the field. > >"It changes our team, and the rhythm that we're playing with," Bryant said at > the shootaround. "Obviously we found a great rhythm there with him in the >lineup, particularly the last week or so. So we're going to have to >make some >adjustments." >Bryant insisted the Lakers could still win a title without Bynum. >"There are teams that lost in the Finals that go back and win the next year," > he said. "I think having Andrew in the lineup makes us a dominant team. >"With him out of the lineup, we're still a great team. You put him in the >mix, it takes us to another level." >**************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to >stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From douglas342 at aol.com Mon Feb 2 23:19:36 2009 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:19:36 -0500 Subject: Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB53A3D97A8F02-C5C-4B4@mblk-d42.sysops.aol.com> While it does make the road to #18 a bit easier, this isn't the way for it to happen. I echo what Doc said - we want the best they have to offer. And Bynum is coming on. It would be sad to see a promising career derailed so early on, but it happens. Ask zWShaun Livingston and the kid who was with Sacramento. Adsk Danny Mannning. -----Original Message----- From: BDodgers at aol.com To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 2:24 pm Subject: Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks Lakers' Bynum to miss 8-12 weeks NEW YORK -- _Los Angeles Lakers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) center _Andrew Bynum_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748) will miss eight to 12 weeks after tearing the medial collateral ligament in his right knee. Bynum was hurt in the first quarter of Saturday night's win at Memphis. _Kobe Bryant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110) drove to the basket, missed the shot and crashed into Bynum's right leg. Bynum immediately grabbed his knee. Sheridan: Kobe Holds Hope Kobe Bryant still believes the Lakers are NBA championship material -- even without Andrew Bynum, Chris Sheridan writes. _Column_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3879734) Bynum is the Lakers' third-leading scorer and second-leading rebounder, averaging 14.0 points, 8.2 rebounds and 1.9 blocks. The 7-foot, 285-pound Bynum's injury brought back bad memories of last season for the Lakers. He went down in mid-January and was expected to be sidelined eight to 12 weeks after bruising a bone in his knee and briefly dislocating his kneecap. Instead, he missed the final 46 games of the season, as the Lakers lost in the NBA Finals. He underwent arthroscopic surgery May 21 to remove cartilage debris and smooth some rough spots on the underside of his kneecap. "This is a team that went to the Finals last year that we put on the floor, so they're confident in what they can do," coach Phil Jackson said at the Lakers' shootaround Monday afternoon, before they announced the severity of the injury. "We know we're going to miss his presence, his rebounding ability. But this is a very capable team." The injury came as the 21-year-old seemed to be taking a major step forward in his fourth NBA season. The Scott Van Pelt Show Andrew Bynum will miss eight to 12 weeks, but John Ireland doesn't think it's going to be a big deal. Ireland says that's what everyone thought last year. In the five games before he was hurt, he was averaging 26.2 points, 13.8 rebounds and 3.2 blocks and shooting 65.3 percent from the field. "It changes our team, and the rhythm that we're playing with," Bryant said at the shootaround. "Obviously we found a great rhythm there with him in the lineup, particularly the last week or so. So we're going to have to make some adjustments." Bryant insisted the Lakers could still win a title without Bynum. "There are teams that lost in the Finals that go back and win the next year," he said. "I think having Andrew in the lineup makes us a dominant team. "With him out of the lineup, we're still a great team. You put him in the mix, it takes us to another level." **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 02:55:15 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:55:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brad Miller Message-ID: <402678.63050.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I'm perfectly fine with Big Brad, but if we're gonna swing a multi-piece deal like that, I'd rather we did it for something more than a 33-year-old center who's having a down year. At the very least, you'd also want Boston to come away with somebody like John Salmons, but that would only increase the number of contracts we'd have to move out, and doing major surgery to the roster at this point doesn't seem sensible. Put me down for a Scalabrine/Davis package that might net Joe Smith or Jarvis Hayes/Sean Williams ... or a smaller deal to pick up, say, a Joey Graham or Malik Allen. I also like Jamario Moon, Renaldo Balkman and Hakeem Warrick, but not sure any of them are available. From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 3 04:28:50 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:28:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: I'm Surprised No One Has Mentioned Brad Miller As A Possible Celtics Big Man In-Reply-To: <731845.33765.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <649887.2082.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We need a young?athletic shot blocker/rebounder like Sean Williams more than a big slow center.? Camby might be available ? Miller isn't that good ? ? --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: From: Way Of The Ray Subject: I'm Surprised No One Has Mentioned Brad Miller As A Possible Celtics Big Man To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 2:56 PM Good for Mark Murphy for mentioning the possibility of the Celtics acquiring Brad Miller. The difficulty of course is Brad's large contract and the lack of moveable large salaries on the Celtics to exchange for him. The other problem with a straight up Celtics - Kings deal is the availability of roster space. For instance, the Celtics could do a T. Allen, Scalabrine, House, Davis, POB and Walker for Miller deal, but the Kings would have to waive several players to fit in the oncoming Celtics. And of course, LOL, Ainge would have to replenish the Celtics bench, perhaps with Marbury and Wells, etc. However, if a 3rd or 4th team was involved (say the Grizzlies), whom have two extra roster spaces available, the deal become more plausible, especially if the Celtics were willing to include 3 M. in cash and a future Lottery-protected first, then there's some room to maneuver. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Tue Feb 3 04:54:23 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:54:23 -0500 Subject: OK Let Me Start Something! In-Reply-To: <402678.63050.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <402678.63050.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <020701c985bb$7bc3fc30$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Every trade scenario, fiction almost always, has Big Baby in it. Why?? He has proven to be much better than Leon and with a much higher upside. I love Leon, let me say it again, I love Leon! But Leon is and undersized 4 with a big heart and no upside. He plays hard, gives 110% but has no offensive game to speak up other than bulling his way to the basket. He is average at best on defense because of his size limitations. Baby has improved 100%! He has a good offensive game and will get better. He has moves, great hands and a true bball IQ. He is getting better on defense and can play the 4 and the 5 and does very well against the bigger, non-athletic bigs. He is our best guy off the bench. Why would we want to trade him? Danny should be trying to sign him to a long deal now before the summer comes. I would love to have a true athletic, big guy come to us via trade, etc. but that isn't likely to happen without chips other teams want, namely expiring contracts. I actually am starting to feel a bit better as to our lack of bigs situation with Baby's recent play. I still think we need help at the backup PG since obviously Gabe is not going to get a shot, that is a story for another day. So lets hear it, Baby or Leon, one probably will go since they are somewhat similar and barring injury, both will not play big minutes. Thoughts? Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Peter Delevett Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:55 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Brad Miller I'm perfectly fine with Big Brad, but if we're gonna swing a multi-piece deal like that, I'd rather we did it for something more than a 33-year-old center who's having a down year. At the very least, you'd also want Boston to come away with somebody like John Salmons, but that would only increase the number of contracts we'd have to move out, and doing major surgery to the roster at this point doesn't seem sensible. Put me down for a Scalabrine/Davis package that might net Joe Smith or Jarvis Hayes/Sean Williams ... or a smaller deal to pick up, say, a Joey Graham or Malik Allen. I also like Jamario Moon, Renaldo Balkman and Hakeem Warrick, but not sure any of them are available. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:51 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:51 AM From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 3 04:59:04 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:59:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: I'm Surprised No One Has Mentioned Brad Miller As A Possible Celtics Big Man In-Reply-To: <731845.33765.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <963346.97218.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We need a young?athletic shot blocker/rebounder like Sean Williams more than a big slow center.? Camby might be available ? Miller isn't that good ? ? --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: From: Way Of The Ray Subject: I'm Surprised No One Has Mentioned Brad Miller As A Possible Celtics Big Man To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 2:56 PM Good for Mark Murphy for mentioning the possibility of the Celtics acquiring Brad Miller. The difficulty of course is Brad's large contract and the lack of moveable large salaries on the Celtics to exchange for him. The other problem with a straight up Celtics - Kings deal is the availability of roster space. For instance, the Celtics could do a T. Allen, Scalabrine, House, Davis, POB and Walker for Miller deal, but the Kings would have to waive several players to fit in the oncoming Celtics. And of course, LOL, Ainge would have to replenish the Celtics bench, perhaps with Marbury and Wells, etc. However, if a 3rd or 4th team was involved (say the Grizzlies), whom have two extra roster spaces available, the deal become more plausible, especially if the Celtics were willing to include 3 M. in cash and a future Lottery-protected first, then there's some room to maneuver. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From keltsfan at comcast.net Tue Feb 3 05:20:06 2009 From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:20:06 -0800 Subject: OK Let Me Start Something! In-Reply-To: <020701c985bb$7bc3fc30$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> References: <402678.63050.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <020701c985bb$7bc3fc30$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <010101c985bf$138c7670$3aa56350$@net> Yeah, Davis is a more complete package than Powe with significantly more upside because of his skill set. I think the fact that he has supplanted Powe in the rotation attests to this as well. Davis is a keeper. The only concern is whether he can manage to not eat himself out of the league. Ravi > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Troy > Hash > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:54 PM > To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' > Subject: OK Let Me Start Something! > > Every trade scenario, fiction almost always, has Big Baby in it. Why?? He > has proven to be much better than Leon and with a much higher upside. I > love Leon, let me say it again, I love Leon! But Leon is and undersized 4 > with a big heart and no upside. He plays hard, gives 110% but has no > offensive game to speak up other than bulling his way to the basket. He is > average at best on defense because of his size limitations. Baby has > improved 100%! He has a good offensive game and will get better. He has > moves, great hands and a true bball IQ. He is getting better on defense and > can play the 4 and the 5 and does very well against the bigger, non-athletic > bigs. He is our best guy off the bench. Why would we want to trade him? > Danny should be trying to sign him to a long deal now before the summer > comes. I would love to have a true athletic, big guy come to us via trade, > etc. but that isn't likely to happen without chips other teams want, namely > expiring contracts. I actually am starting to feel a bit better as to our > lack of bigs situation with Baby's recent play. I still think we need help > at the backup PG since obviously Gabe is not going to get a shot, that is a > story for another day. So lets hear it, Baby or Leon, one probably will go > since they are somewhat similar and barring injury, both will not play big > minutes. Thoughts? Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Peter Delevett > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:55 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Brad Miller > > I'm perfectly fine with Big Brad, but if we're gonna swing a multi-piece > deal like that, I'd rather we did it for something more than a 33-year-old > center who's having a down year. At the very least, you'd also want Boston > to come away with somebody like John Salmons, but that would only increase > the number of contracts we'd have to move out, and doing major surgery to > the roster at this point doesn't seem sensible. > > Put me down for a Scalabrine/Davis package that might net Joe Smith or > Jarvis Hayes/Sean Williams ... or a smaller deal to pick up, say, a Joey > Graham or Malik Allen. I also like Jamario Moon, Renaldo Balkman and Hakeem > Warrick, but not sure any of them are available. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 > 7:51 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 > 7:51 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From joefan11111 at aol.com Tue Feb 3 13:50:27 2009 From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson Message-ID: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> Great news for our Celts with two of our dangerous competitors losing top players in the last few days while we arrogantly fly through our second straight season free of major injuries. ? With our skinny bench, it?s a wakeup call that we too are one key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the Eastern Conference.. Perk?s shoulder is our only question mark and I?ve come to not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway.? Sounds like our coaches have implanted into his brain that he must be tough and he?s stupidly carried that to the nth degree. ? Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell the other night?? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug. Meanwhile, for those who are still under the illusion that the moody and inconsistent Rondo is the best PG in the Eastern Conference, get real.? I mentioned months ago that Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. ? Joe From shizzjr at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:04:45 2009 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:04:45 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the lists' apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing before you. > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news for our Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in the last few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight season free of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it?s a wakeup call that we too are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the > Eastern Conference..> > Perk?s shoulder is our only question mark and I?ve come to> not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > coaches have implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he?s stupidly carried that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > Meanwhile, for those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and inconsistent Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I mentioned months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the > all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 From jwhite128 at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:11:19 2009 From: jwhite128 at gmail.com (Jeff White) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:19 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, too, for jinxing the C's by crowing about how they're flying through a second straight season free of major injuries. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles wrote: > > Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the lists' > apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing before you. > > > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: Tue, 3 > Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news for our > Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in the last > few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight season free > of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it's a wakeup call that we too > are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the > Eastern > Conference..> > Perk's shoulder is our only question mark and I've come to> > not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > coaches have > implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly carried > that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell > the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > Meanwhile, for > those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and inconsistent > Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I mentioned > months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the > > all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing > List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. > > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From fthurley at me.com Tue Feb 3 14:11:38 2009 From: fthurley at me.com (Frederick Hurley) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:11:38 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was wondering about that. What, are we letting Laker fans in here now? Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity and any typos. On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Jeff White wrote: > Thanks, too, for jinxing the C's by crowing about how they're flying > through > a second straight season free of major injuries. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles > wrote: > >> >> Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the >> lists' >> apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing >> before you. >> >>> To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: >>> Tue, 3 >> Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news >> for our >> Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in >> the last >> few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight >> season free >> of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it's a wakeup call >> that we too >> are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the >> > Eastern >> Conference..> > Perk's shoulder is our only question mark and I've >> come to> >> not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > >> coaches have >> implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly >> carried >> that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of >> Maxiell >> the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > >> Meanwhile, for >> those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and >> inconsistent >> Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I >> mentioned >> months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make >> the > >> all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> > >> _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics >> Mailing >> List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. >> >> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From shizzjr at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:36:49 2009 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:36:49 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yea that too. Overall just a horrible egotistical foolish and self centered email. > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:19 -0500> Subject: Re: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> From: jwhite128 at gmail.com> To: celtics at igtc.com> > Thanks, too, for jinxing the C's by crowing about how they're flying through> a second straight season free of major injuries.> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles wrote:> > >> > Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the lists'> > apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing before you.> >> > > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: Tue, 3> > Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news for our> > Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in the last> > few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight season free> > of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it's a wakeup call that we too> > are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the > Eastern> > Conference..> > Perk's shoulder is our only question mark and I've come to>> > not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > coaches have> > implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly carried> > that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell> > the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > Meanwhile, for> > those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and inconsistent> > Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I mentioned> > months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the >> > all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> >> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing> > List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > _________________________________________________________________> > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.> >> > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208> > _______________________________________________> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List> > celtics at igtc.com> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >> _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 3 14:37:44 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:37:44 -0800 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Rondo replaces nelson on the all star team?? Paul was injured also, not sure how bad On Feb 3, 2009, at 6:11 AM, Frederick Hurley wrote: > I was wondering about that. What, are we letting Laker fans in here > now? > > Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity and any typos. > > On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Jeff White wrote: > >> Thanks, too, for jinxing the C's by crowing about how they're >> flying through >> a second straight season free of major injuries. >> >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the >>> lists' >>> apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing >>> before you. >>> >>>> To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: >>>> Tue, 3 >>> Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news >>> for our >>> Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in >>> the last >>> few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight >>> season free >>> of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it's a wakeup call >>> that we too >>> are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the >>> > Eastern >>> Conference..> > Perk's shoulder is our only question mark and I've >>> come to> >>> not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > >>> coaches have >>> implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly >>> carried >>> that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down >>> of Maxiell >>> the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > >>> Meanwhile, for >>> those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and >>> inconsistent >>> Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I >>> mentioned >>> months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to >>> make the > >>> all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> > >>> _______________________________________________> The Boston >>> Celtics Mailing >>> List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. >>> >>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>> celtics at igtc.com >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Feb 4 01:43:10 2009 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:43:10 -0500 Subject: upcoming Message-ID: <8CB548112200D19-1C44-500@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> Philly games, Laker games, playoff games. (Honorary mention: Detroit games) One tonight, another Thursday, but I'll rant in advance about how TV AND radio here in Los Angeles DELAY the games from the east coast by an hour, or at least this one. I get so stoked and come home and the game isn't even on yet! Do I go online and see what's happening? Do I wait? Goddam Lakers... From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Feb 4 23:51:57 2009 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:51:57 -0500 Subject: why so quiet? Message-ID: <8CB553AB2B2968B-788-FDF@webmail-me05.sysops.aol.com> The Cs whup perennial enemy Philly with a Ray Allen 3 with zero point five seconds to go and there isn't a single post? with the even more hated Lakers on tap? Sheesh, this is a big time. Get by the Fakers and it would be how many in a row? And who would have the fewest in the loss column? From stevebknight at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 00:20:06 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:20:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: bbaby References: Message-ID: <697336.63646.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> couldn't agree more, troy. big baby has turned into a solid, fairly consistent contributor. he hustles, knows his rotations, added a 15-foot shot and plays with great intensity. why on earth anyone would want to trade him now is beyond me. we should be plotting to tie him up for the next 5 years at reasonable money. as much as i love leon, he might be the odd man out. frankly, i'm feeling pretty comfortable going into the postseason with the team we have right now, but i'm a glass half full guy. tweaks will be made, we know that. btw, tony is looking much better since he came back. also, i was impressed that pob didn't embarrass himself in the philly game. he has some talent. is actually a pretty good shotblocker and interior passer. and then the next second he looks totally out of it. go figure. Message: 3 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:54:23 -0500 From: "Troy Hash" Subject: OK Let Me Start Something! To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" Message-ID: <020701c985bb$7bc3fc30$6401a8c0 at troyscomputer> Every trade scenario, fiction almost always, has Big Baby in it. Why?? He has proven to be much better than Leon and with a much higher upside. I love Leon, let me say it again, I love Leon! But Leon is and undersized 4 with a big heart and no upside. He plays hard, gives 110% but has no offensive game to speak up other than bulling his way to the basket. He is average at best on defense because of his size limitations. Baby has improved 100%! He has a good offensive game and will get better. He has moves, great hands and a true bball IQ. He is getting better on defense and can play the 4 and the 5 and does very well against the bigger, non-athletic bigs. He is our best guy off the bench. Why would we want to trade him? Danny should be trying to sign him to a long deal now before the summer comes. I would love to have a true athletic, big guy come to us via trade, etc. but that isn't likely to happen without chips other teams want, namely expiring contracts. I actually am starting to feel a bit better as to our lack of bigs situation with Baby's recent play. I still think we need help at the backup PG since obviously Gabe is not going to get a shot, that is a story for another day. So lets hear it, Baby or Leon, one probably will go since they are somewhat similar and barring injury, both will not play big minutes. Thoughts? Troy From pdelevett at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 02:00:12 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:00:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wanna be starting something Message-ID: <679526.27461.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> OK, since I guess I raised Troy's ire with my post, let me briefly explain: I also really, really like Baby a lot. (Hell, I'm an LSU fan and was ecstatic Danny drafted him.) But it's precisely because he's been playing well of late that I think Boston likely would have to include him in a package for a quality big man and/or swing defender. Unless Ainge can luck into another situation like last year, when the Clips waived Cassell and we got him for free, to get appreciably better before the playoffs we're gonna have to swing a deal, using Scalabrine's contract as bait. But since Scal's play isn't going to excite anybody, and since we don't have any high picks to offer (as far as I'm aware), Ainge will also need to throw in a couple of his young players ... and I'd argue that BB right now probably has more value than Pruitt, the rookies or probably Leon, given that Glen's girth helps offset his lack of height. Now, given the improvement in BB's play and in that of Scalabrine, am I certain they're worth giving up for a Joe Smith? I am not. But some playoff team almost assuredly will add Smith to their roster, and if OKC ends up waiving him, there's no guarantee he'd come here as opposed to Cleveland. So if we want him - or any of the other names we've tossed around - we're likely gonna have to make a preemptive deal and see if we can outbid the other contendahs. Whether we do that, of course, remains to be seen ... but I think this roster is a piece or two away from an assured repeat title run. From martind42 at cox.net Thu Feb 5 03:37:51 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:37:51 -0500 Subject: Wanna be starting something In-Reply-To: <679526.27461.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090204223751.HW99N.535649.imail@eastrmwml24> Any muliti-player deal for another backup player will do harm to team chemistry. Right now, it ain't broke so don't fix it. Pick up a player on waivers, or trade minimal talent to get another big. But, players like Big Baby, cannot and should not be fodder to get a player who will come off the bench. I'd say ditto for Leon Powe. Our best hope is to lure someone out of retirement- PJ, Mourning, even Pollard. But to trade several players for another backup, only weakens the bench, not strengthens it. ---- Peter Delevett wrote: > OK, since I guess I raised Troy's ire with my post, let me briefly explain: I also really, really like Baby a lot. (Hell, I'm an LSU fan and was ecstatic Danny drafted him.) But it's precisely because he's been playing well of late that I think Boston likely would have to include him in a package for a quality big man and/or swing defender. > > Unless Ainge can luck into another situation like last year, when the Clips waived Cassell and we got him for free, to get appreciably better before the playoffs we're gonna have to swing a deal, using Scalabrine's contract as bait. But since Scal's play isn't going to excite anybody, and since we don't have any high picks to offer (as far as I'm aware), Ainge will also need to throw in a couple of his young players ... and I'd argue that BB right now probably has more value than Pruitt, the rookies or probably Leon, given that Glen's girth helps offset his lack of height. > > Now, given the improvement in BB's play and in that of Scalabrine, am I certain they're worth giving up for a Joe Smith? I am not. But some playoff team almost assuredly will add Smith to their roster, and if OKC ends up waiving him, there's no guarantee he'd come here as opposed to Cleveland. So if we want him - or any of the other names we've tossed around - we're likely gonna have to make a preemptive deal and see if we can outbid the other contendahs. Whether we do that, of course, remains to be seen ... but I think this roster is a piece or two away from an assured repeat title run. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 03:47:28 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:47:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? Message-ID: <807003.27081.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the same time? House, when he was the designated gunner for the second unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now paired with TA, since his return, has him as just an afterthought on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing well within the flow of the game and is showing the old form that has him doing many things well and playing good D. House needs to be free to roam to open spots and have team-mates looking for him, which was happening when he was paired with Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed sinse TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that has Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and House, that way you might get the best of what both House and TA have to offer when on the floor. Also think fans should be patient with Powe and shouldnt view Baby's recent good play and not appreciate what Powe brings when he is out there (toughness, boards and more toughness). His role has changed also so he is adjusting and we will need both playing well come stretch time and playoffs. - Random/different questions, less important to the C's now: Status/report on the Euro big drafted this year for potential signing to next year? Is he playing well this year and where? JR? is he hurt or just playing Pruitts role from last year, if so shouldnt he be playing in the D league still? same for Walker, but I can understand him being around for SF insurance especially since Scals is down. Go C's - Beat LA!! From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 5 10:54:58 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 02:54:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? Message-ID: <420897.12962.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I agree with most of the below email, especially about Leon. It seems people have a very short memory in terms of how well players are playing. It was only a few weeks ago when Big Baby was stinking it up on offense and defense, namely the 1-12 effort in Toronto (mostly open short range shots) along the with West Coast trip against Golden State and Portland. His scoring average at the time was 2.9ppg and it is now 5ppg after some great contributions, along with 3.5rpg in almost 20 minutes a night. Leon, on the other hand, is playing relatively poorly lately but his averages for the season are 6.3ppg and 4rpg in ONLY 15 minutes a night. Don?t forget that it was around this time last year that he started his strong contributions which lead to his magnificent?21 points (in 15 minutes)?in Game 2 of the NBA Finals. Back then people were talking about Powe being a cornerstone for the future. Don?t get me wrong, I reckon Baby is gonna be good and he does seem to have more ?potential? than Leon (especially his mid-range game), but we can?t forget what Powe has already given us and will (hopefully) continue to provide us in the years to come. ? Semih Erden is currently playing in the Top 16 phase of the Euroleague and he had a relatively good game recently against CSKA Moscow- 8 points and 11 rebounds. Seeing as we don?t have a first-round draft pick this year, Erden will be our new young gun. But he?ll be lucky to beat out O?Bryant by the looks of his current stats in Europe (6.5ppg and 4.8rpg in 19 minutes a night): http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=ulk&pcode=JYB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semih_Erden ? As for tonight- here?s hoping for a big Celtics win and hopefully Pau Gasol getting dunked on :) ? ? --- R Howe wrote: Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the same time? ? House, when he was the designated gunner for the second unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now paired with TA, since his return, has him as just an afterthought on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing well within the flow of the game and is showing the old form that has him doing many things well and playing good D. House needs to be free to roam to open spots and have team-mates looking for him, which was happening when he was paired with Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed sinse TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that has Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and House, that way you might get the best of what both House and TA have to offer when on the floor. ? Also think fans should be patient with Powe and shouldnt view Baby's recent good play and not appreciate what Powe brings when he is out there (toughness, boards and more toughness). His role has changed also so he is adjusting and we will need both playing well come stretch time and playoffs. ? - Random/different questions, less important to the C's now: ? Status/report on the Euro big drafted this year for potential signing to next year? Is he playing well this year and where? ? JR? is he hurt or just playing Pruitts role from last year, if so shouldnt he be playing in the D league still? same for Walker, but I can understand him being around for SF insurance especially since Scals is down. ? Go C's - Beat LA!! Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From joefan11111 at aol.com Thu Feb 5 14:10:47 2009 From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:10:47 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB55B2AD1179AB-37C-3377@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> ??? ??? Overall just a horrible egotistical foolish and self centered email. Yup Shizz, I have a big ego when it comes to stating my views on the Celts.? Just like you and Kim and Patterson and Delevett and everyone else who has the chutspa to post their Celtics views as gospel in a public forum. Peeking back at your past history on this list, i see you have added? no new thoughts and only responded to contributions which you find insulting to the Celts. Too bad your responses never debate the issues, just insult the emailer. >From what I can see, you should have been tossed off this list long ago for adding nothing but attacks. -----Original Message----- From: Shawn Niles To: Celtics List Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 9:36 am Subject: RE: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson Yea that too. Overall just a horrible egotistical foolish and self centered email. > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:19 -0500> Subject: Re: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> From: jwhite128 at gmail.com> To: celtics at igtc.com> > Thanks, too, for jinxing the C's by crowing about how they're flying through> a second straight season free of major injuries.> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles wrote:> > >> > Sounds like you were really ahead of the curve. Please accept the lists'> > apology for not admitting how smart you were before and bowing before you.>=2 0>> > > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: Tue, 3> > Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news for our> > Celts with two of our dangerous competitors> losing top players in the last> > few days while we arrogantly fly > through our second straight season free> > of major injuries. > With our skinny bench, it's a wakeup call that we too> > are one > key starter injury away from finishing 5th or 6th in the > Eastern> > Conference..> > Perk's shoulder is our only question mark and I've come to>> > not appreciate his foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > coaches have> > implanted into his brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly carried> > that to the nth degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell> > the other > night? Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > Meanwhile, for> > those who are still under the illusion> that the moody and inconsistent> > Rondo is the best PG in the > Eastern Conference, get real. I mentioned> > months ago that > Harris and Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the >> > all-star team ahead of Rondo, and they did. > > Joe> >> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing> > List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > _________________________________________________________________> > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.> >> > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility. aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208> > _______________________________________________> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List> > celtics at igtc.com> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >> _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 5 16:24:56 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:24:56 EST Subject: Ian Thomsen > INSIDE THE NBA Message-ID: Ian Thomsen > INSIDE THE NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/ian_thomsen/archive/) Ray Allen a model of efficiency Story Highlights At 33, Celtics shooting guard Ray Allen continues to discover new ways to play Allen is more comfortable in his second season in Boston than he was last year The veteran guard is shooting less but making more, and his D has been solid BOSTON -- The Lakers arrive here Thursday for the latest renewal of a rivalry that remains under construction. The visitors once again will be trying to reinvent themselves in the absence of injured center _Andrew Bynum_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3936) , while the champion Celtics will be relying more than ever on _Ray Allen_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3080) , who at 33 continues discovering new ways to play. Shooting guards are supposed to become lame and ineffective at his age, but Allen is having what may be his finest season. He continues to defend at a better rate than over his 11 years before coming to Boston, while at the other end of the floor -- the end that has always defined him -- he is shooting a career-best 49.7 percent. Allen is attempting fewer shots (12.9 per game this season) while scoring more points than last year. He has moved past _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3007) to become the Celtics' second option, with 18.1 points. "He's doing it more efficiently than he's done it earlier in his career,'' Boston coach Doc Rivers said. "If you don't need the ball in your hands for 15-20 seconds, if you can have it in your hands for five seconds of a possession and you're still really good -- that means you're a really good basketball player. And that's what Ray has become with us.'' While much has been made of the adaptations by Garnett and _Paul Pierce_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3253) in leading the Celtics to the title last year, Allen faced the roughest change of all. He was a shooter who was asked to shoot less. "If on a season you're averaging 22-23 shots a game, you're going to shoot yourself into a good rhythm,'' Allen said. "But the majority of the time, if you have to shoot that many times, you don't win.'' When times were bad in previous years (and there were a lot of those bad nights, as Allen's teams in Milwaukee and Seattle missed the playoffs six times), he would naturally take it upon himself to shoot his team out of trouble. But that approach, as Allen noted, wasn't going to help the Celtics win a title. "That was a struggle,'' Rivers said of trying to integrate Allen last year. "He was so used to [an offensive style in which] the ball touched his hands and everything stopped and you had to wait and see what he wanted to do with the ball. We got on him a lot about that and he fought it, and then he fought himself in trying to fit in. It was difficult for him but he did it. He did it and he got better and better at it. And now he's taking it to a different level.'' Several league executives predicted before last season that Allen would be the star least likely to accept his role in the new Celtics offense. It says much about Allen that he was willing and able to adapt at an age when players at his position are rarely able to compete at a high level. "I hear so many times guys say they want to win a championship, I want to be a winner, but what they're really saying is they want to win so long as it's comfortable for them,'' Rivers said. "You don't win by being comfortable. You win by doing things out of your comfort zone to make the team better, and Ray epitomizes that to me. He's completely come out of his comfort zone to fit into this team to make us better, and Ray has proved that he's a champion because he's willing to do that.'' Allen remembers when he finally found comfort in the uncomfortable. The Celtics were flying home after a loss at Detroit in the conference finals last season. Allen had struggled for much of the playoffs, shooting poorly amid a dwindling number of attempts as critics wondered aloud whether he was all washed up. "We were just playing cards and _James Posey_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3341) said, 'We've got to start running Ray off screens and getting him wide open, just like they [the Pistons] are doing for Rip [Hamilton].' Because Rip was all over the place and our goal was to stop him -- and while we were trying to stop him, Rasheed [Wallace] was getting wide-open looks and Chauncey [Billups] was getting overlooked. So I think that was why Posey was like, We've got to start getting Ray open and getting him some easy looks, because that will make it easy on all of us.'' That emphasis helped Allen produce 20.3 points and a record 22 three-pointers in the NBA Finals. The trend has carried into the season. "The bigs [Garnett, center _Kendrick Perkins_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3730) and others] will tell you they've set more screens, better screens, and we've run more in transition,'' Allen said. "And in turn, Eddie [House] and me, we've got so many more wide-open shots.'' That dynamic was obvious Tuesday in Philadelphia when Allen smoked two threes in the final half-minute of a comeback 100-99 victory. Not only was he sprung free for the buzzer-beating game-winner on a screen by Glen (Big Baby) Davis, who was playing while Garnett was at home recovering from the flu, but Allen also demonstrated his talent for moving without the ball in sprinting to the corner in time to receive a crosscourt pass from Pierce. All of Allen's improvements will be displayed Thursday when he is asked to guard league MVP _Kobe Bryant_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3118) at one end while keeping the ball moving at the other end of the floor. No doubt the league office will be watching, too, as Allen and Cleveland's _Mo Williams_ (http:// sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3750) are the top candidates to replace injured Orlando guard _Jameer Nelson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3837) in the All-Star Game on Feb. 15 in Phoenix. "He's accepting double teams and getting rid of the ball,'' Rivers said. "Where in the past he was the only guy who would get doubled and he'd still try to create a play.'' Allen doesn't need reminding anymore. "Now I pass first more than anything,'' said Allen, who ranks third among the Celtics with 2.8 assists. "When I'm coming off a screen and it's early in the game, I just try to make a hard move, get to the basket and pass it so somebody else can get an easier shot. It builds your way into the offense that way.'' **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 17:16:44 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:16:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: 2012 Message-ID: <266787.68450.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dateline Boston:? The Celtics won their 5th championship in a row tonight.? The transition from the old to the new was completed this season, but the magic continues.? With solid efforts from Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce off the bench, where they learned new roles this season, and with three three-pointers from Ray Allen, who agreed to re-sign after the All Star game, the new look Celtics prevailed again.? The transition was made easier because of the presence of Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins.? Both have averaged double doubles throughout the season.? At power forward, Big Baby Davis upped his ppg to 16 for the playoffs and brought home a solid 8 rebounds per game.? Tony Allen played his usual tough defensive game and added 10 points in the final game.? Swing guard Gabe Pruitt and SF Bill Walker played stiffling defense and contributed excellent floor play throughout.? While it's uncertain, in Celtic land, whether the starters could have pulled this off without the veteran bench, it worked this one time.? The Celts will certainly need a big hitter offensively to keep their string going.? P.S.:? Also contributing to this championship--the injuries to LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. ? It could happen.? Cheers, Gene From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 19:45:08 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:45:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? In-Reply-To: <807003.27081.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22269.32424.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Good thoughts. The problem with House is that he needs to play off-the-ball to be successful. And since he's under 6 foot, that presents all kinds of other problems. When you ask him to play a little point (which is pretty much all he can do), he doesn't get the open looks and is forced to shoot more off-the-dribble, which he isn't very good at... And if you trace most of House's success this season, it's been at the 2 guard with Pruitt playing point, which basically allows Eddie to chuck at will. So, as you suggest, if I were Doc I'd try to work Pruitt in with House and Ray (Ray and House have great chemistry together, it seems), and let TA play more with Rondo and Paul (all three of whom seem to have great chemistry together). It might be just my subjective take on things, but TA and House, or TA and Ray just don't have great chemistry together, especially when TA or Ray are asked to play at point. Just throwing this out there, but a possible rotation would be to sub Ray out for TA with about 4 minutes left in the 1st quarter, bring Pruitt in around the quarter for Rondo, and then bring House in for Pierce maybe around the 10 minute mark of the 2nd, with Ray coming in for TA at about the 8 minute mark and with Rondo replacing Pruitt at about the 6 minutes mark. Then you bring back Pierce back in sometime after that, depending on House's ability to make buckets. Under this scenario, House probably sees a loss of some minutes, but to me that's something we can get away with, since it's usually clear from the get-go whether House has it going or not, and we don't need to spend any more time than necessary with him on the court, since he's AT BEST a one-dimensional player. Guys like TA or Pruitt, even when they're aren't scoring can do other things to help the team. Eddie's effectiveness lies strictly with his ability to make shots and therefore he should get the least amount of minutes between the three backup guards. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/4/09, R Howe wrote: > From: R Howe > Subject: Why cant we have both? > To: "Celtics list" > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:47 PM > Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the same > time? > > House, when he was the designated gunner for the second > unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now paired > with TA, since his return, has him as just an afterthought > on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing well > within the flow of the game and is showing the old form that > has him doing many things well and playing good D. House > needs to be free to roam to open spots and have team-mates > looking for him, which was happening when he was paired with > Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed sinse > TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that has > Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and House, > that way you might get the best of what both House and TA > have to offer when on the floor. From shizzjr at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 21:38:24 2009 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 16:38:24 -0500 Subject: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson In-Reply-To: <8CB55B2AD1179AB-37C-3377@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB541D8142FD15-920-20B5@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> <1923cbc90902030611o2973211ag860259e5ab892dd1@mail.gmail.com> <8CB55B2AD1179AB-37C-3377@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm certainly glad you have time to go through my entire history. It must be nice to have that kind of time. I'd check yours but you know... i'm busy working for a living. As for the email, I am not the only one that had an issue with what you said. Funny that you talk about debating just basketball when your email contained numerous insults, then finished up with a 'Look at how much smarter I am than all you guys' line. Believe me we thank God every day that we have you here to enlighten us. As for tossing me... feel free to toss away. I certainly am willing to do whatever it takes to help you sleep better at night. This will be my last comment on this thread. I'm sure the list is not interested, my friend. > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Re: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:10:47 -0500> From: joefan11111 at aol.com> > Overall just a horrible egotistical foolish and > self centered email.> Yup Shizz, I have a big ego when it comes to stating my views on > the Celts. Just like you and Kim and Patterson and Delevett and> everyone else who has the chutspa to post their Celtics views as > gospel in a public forum.> > Peeking back at your past history on this list, i see you have added no new> thoughts and only responded to contributions which you find insulting to > the Celts. Too bad your responses never debate the issues, just insult > the emailer.> > From what I can see, you should have been tossed off this list long ago> for adding nothing but attacks.> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----> From: Shawn Niles > To: Celtics List > Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 9:36 am> Subject: RE: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> > > > > > > > > > > > Yea that too. Overall just a horrible egotistical foolish and self centered > email.> > > > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:11:19 -0500> Subject: Re: Goodbye Bynum and Nelson> > From: jwhite128 at gmail.com> To: celtics at igtc.com> > Thanks, too, for jinxing the > C's by crowing about how they're flying through> a second straight season free > of major injuries.> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Shawn Niles > wrote:> > >> > Sounds like you were really ahead of the > curve. Please accept the lists'> > apology for not admitting how smart you were > before and bowing before you.>=2> 0>> > > To: celtics at igtc.com> Subject: Goodbye > Bynum and Nelson> Date: Tue, 3> > Feb 2009 08:50:27 -0500> From: > joefan11111 at aol.com> > Great news for our> > Celts with two of our dangerous > competitors> losing top players in the last> > few days while we arrogantly fly > > through our second straight season free> > of major injuries. > With our > skinny bench, it's a wakeup call that we too> > are one > key starter injury > away from finishing 5th or 6th in the > Eastern> > Conference..> > Perk's > shoulder is our only question mark and I've come to>> > not appreciate his > foolish hostility anyway. Sounds like our > coaches have> > implanted into his > brain that he must > be tough and he's stupidly carried> > that to the nth > degree. > Did you all see his violent take down of Maxiell> > the other > night? > Hate to say it, but Perk is a thug.> > Meanwhile, for> > those who are still > under the illusion> that the moody and inconsistent> > Rondo is the best PG in > the > Eastern Conference, get real. I mentioned> > months ago that > Harris and > Nelson (even Iverson) deserved to make the >> > all-star team ahead of Rondo, > and they did. > > Joe> >> > _______________________________________________> The > Boston Celtics Mailing> > List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > > _________________________________________________________________> > > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.> >> > > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.> aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208> > > _______________________________________________> > The Boston Celtics Mailing > List> > celtics at igtc.com> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> >> > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing > List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> _________________________________________________________________> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009> _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> > > > > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 22:55:23 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:55:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? In-Reply-To: <22269.32424.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <232485.5537.qm@web56707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Interesting take on the chemistry aspect to this. I am out here in Guam so I dont get to watch very many games, when I dont I use 30 sec interval reports as games are in progress. I have noticed that your right about House doing well at least in the recent past with Gabe and R.A. is it because that unit is more in sync with each other? Go C's Beat LA!! --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ryan W wrote: From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Why cant we have both? To: "Celtics list" Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:45 PM Good thoughts. The problem with House is that he needs to play off-the-ball to be successful. And since he's under 6 foot, that presents all kinds of other problems. When you ask him to play a little point (which is pretty much all he can do), he doesn't get the open looks and is forced to shoot more off-the-dribble, which he isn't very good at... And if you trace most of House's success this season, it's been at the 2 guard with Pruitt playing point, which basically allows Eddie to chuck at will. So, as you suggest, if I were Doc I'd try to work Pruitt in with House and Ray (Ray and House have great chemistry together, it seems), and let TA play more with Rondo and Paul (all three of whom seem to have great chemistry together). It might be just my subjective take on things, but TA and House, or TA and Ray just don't have great chemistry together, especially when TA or Ray are asked to play at point. Just throwing this out there, but a possible rotation would be to sub Ray out for TA with about 4 minutes left in the 1st quarter, bring Pruitt in around the quarter for Rondo, and then bring House in for Pierce maybe around the 10 minute mark of the 2nd, with Ray coming in for TA at about the 8 minute mark and with Rondo replacing Pruitt at about the 6 minutes mark. Then you bring back Pierce back in sometime after that, depending on House's ability to make buckets. Under this scenario, House probably sees a loss of some minutes, but to me that's something we can get away with, since it's usually clear from the get-go whether House has it going or not, and we don't need to spend any more time than necessary with him on the court, since he's AT BEST a one-dimensional player. Guys like TA or Pruitt, even when they're aren't scoring can do other things to help the team. Eddie's effectiveness lies strictly with his ability to make shots and therefore he should get the least amount of minutes between the three backup guards. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/4/09, R Howe wrote: > From: R Howe > Subject: Why cant we have both? > To: "Celtics list" > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:47 PM > Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the same > time? > > House, when he was the designated gunner for the second > unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now paired > with TA, since his return, has him as just an afterthought > on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing well > within the flow of the game and is showing the old form that > has him doing many things well and playing good D. House > needs to be free to roam to open spots and have team-mates > looking for him, which was happening when he was paired with > Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed sinse > TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that has > Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and House, > that way you might get the best of what both House and TA > have to offer when on the floor. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 03:41:25 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:41:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sixer fix? Message-ID: <545365.34648.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I promised myself I wouldn't spend a lot of time on dumb trade ideas, but with Brand officially done for the season, I wonder if the Sixers would look to unload a couple of their veterans. You could swap POB and Giddens for Donyell Marshall and old pal Theo Ratliff... who's still averaging more than 1 bpg in barely any playing time. Marshall's no longer spry but would give us another big who can hit the trey. I mean, it's not like either of these guys is playing much for Philly, whose playoff push is going to pretty much depend on its young guys. The only player in this scenario whose deal runs past this season is Giddens, which might be another reason for Danny to consider it. From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Feb 6 04:17:31 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:17:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bad loss Message-ID: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and defend or it isn't going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom scored easily. Leon and baby can't defend big mobile players ? Pierce misses key free throw. ? What was with those poor plays at the end? ? ? ? ? From shizzjr at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 04:43:06 2009 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:43:06 -0500 Subject: Bad loss In-Reply-To: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why did every single play down the stretch seem designed to get Davis 20 foot jumpers? That's really our best offensive option? Really? > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:17:31 -0800> From: jlyell at verizon.net> Subject: Bad loss> To: celtics at igtc.com> > We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and defend or it isn't going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom scored easily. Leon and baby can't defend big mobile players> > Pierce misses key free throw. > > What was with those poor plays at the end?> > > > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Fri Feb 6 05:21:16 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:21:16 -0500 Subject: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! In-Reply-To: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03e701c9881a$bccf4fc0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> I don't blame the refs too often, but this was a terribly refed game! There were muggings going on not called all game and ticky tac fouls called right & left. 6th on KG, horrible HE was fouled by Gasol resulting in him losing the ball. Leon's arm was practically pulled off on one play resulting in a Laker fast break, nothing! Pierce, well he was beat to death tonight! For one of the few times this year, I thought Doc really blew it. Leon played his best game in a while, so when KG fouled out, he brings in Baby! ?? We were having a bad time scoring with Baby & Perk on the floor, I would have subbed House in for Perk or Baby, make the Lakers match up. WHAT kind of plays were drawn up at the end of regulation & OT?? No idea what they were supposed to do. UGLY Doc usually comes up with plays to get someone open but not tonight. Chalk it up to a bad night all around. If Lakers hit their FTs, this isn't a close game anyway so we probably did not deserve to win, but I never, ever want to lose to the Lakers! Never!! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:18 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Bad loss We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and defend or it isn't going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom scored easily. Leon and baby can't defend big mobile players ? Pierce misses key free throw. ? What was with those poor plays at the end? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 8:24 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 8:24 AM From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 05:19:49 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:19:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bad loss In-Reply-To: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <701422.3797.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> The loss hurt for sure, but it wasn't 'bad.' We could have played better, certain calls maybe shouldn't have been made, and perhaps a few of those uncontested jumpers could have fallen (Ray seemed to miss at least 3 open 3s), but you could say that about any game. I tell you one thing though: if KG doesn't foul out with 2:29 left in the 4th, we win in regulation. I tell you another thing too: if Rondo got HALF the calls Farmar gets, he'd have been an All-Star this season. As KG said at the end of the post-game press conference: 'we're still the champs.' Ryan --- On Thu, 2/5/09, John Lyell wrote: > From: John Lyell > Subject: Bad loss > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 10:17 PM > We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and defend > or it isn't going to happen, Gasol has killed us both > games and Odom scored easily. Leon and baby can't defend > big mobile players > ? > Pierce misses key free throw. > ? > What was with those poor plays at the end? > ? > ? > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Fri Feb 6 05:22:47 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:22:47 -0500 Subject: Bad loss In-Reply-To: References: <762632.77134.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03e801c9881a$f2b47610$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> not so sure it was designed that way except the Lakers made sure Ray or Paul would not beat them and Baby & Rondo were left open. It worked! -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Niles Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:43 PM To: jlyell at verizon.net; Celtics List Subject: RE: Bad loss Why did every single play down the stretch seem designed to get Davis 20 foot jumpers? That's really our best offensive option? Really? > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:17:31 -0800> From: jlyell at verizon.net> Subject: Bad loss> To: celtics at igtc.com> > We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and defend or it isn't going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom scored easily. Leon and baby can't defend big mobile players> > Pierce misses key free throw. > > What was with those poor plays at the end?> > > > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_0220 09 _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 8:24 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 8:24 AM From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 05:26:13 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:26:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! In-Reply-To: <03e701c9881a$bccf4fc0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <935227.5805.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> The officiating was terrible, you're right about that. And while I complain about the refs all the time, two guys that don't, Ray Allen and Doc Rivers, did a lot of complaining in the post-game press conferences about the officiating, both agreeing that the last play of overtime was a foul (and that KG's foul was some BULLSHIT). There were two different games called and when the refs struggled to 'tone down the game' in the 3rd quarter, all they really did was start calling a bunch of cheap ass fouls on us. Way to control the game, guys. Seriously, we were in the penalty in the 3rd (with 6 minutes left), in the 4th and in overtime. The Lakers weren't in the penalty at all in the 2nd half. I thought Doc did the right thing with Baby. The thing is, he needed someone who could shoot a jumper or the Lakers would have just packed it into the lane. As it was, we still settled too much for jump shots. Don't blame Baby, blame the 20 previous seconds where we dribbled around the perimeter... I do think Doc could have showed a little more creativity with the end of regulation and end of overtime plays. We got terrible shots both times. The Lakers played good defense, but the plays were easily defensible. Ryan --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:21 PM > I don't blame the refs too often, but this was a > terribly refed game! There > were muggings going on not called all game and ticky tac > fouls called right > & left. 6th on KG, horrible HE was fouled by Gasol > resulting in him losing > the ball. Leon's arm was practically pulled off on one > play resulting in a > Laker fast break, nothing! Pierce, well he was beat to > death tonight! For > one of the few times this year, I thought Doc really blew > it. Leon played > his best game in a while, so when KG fouled out, he brings > in Baby! ?? We > were having a bad time scoring with Baby & Perk on the > floor, I would have > subbed House in for Perk or Baby, make the Lakers match up. > WHAT kind of > plays were drawn up at the end of regulation & OT?? > No idea what they were > supposed to do. UGLY Doc usually comes up with plays to > get someone open > but not tonight. Chalk it up to a bad night all around. > If Lakers hit > their FTs, this isn't a close game anyway so we > probably did not deserve to > win, but I never, ever want to lose to the Lakers! Never!! > Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of John Lyell > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:18 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Bad loss > > We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and > defend or it isn't > going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom > scored easily. Leon > and baby can't defend big mobile players > ? > Pierce misses key free throw. > ? > What was with those poor plays at the end? > ? > ? > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release > Date: 2/4/2009 > 8:24 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release > Date: 2/4/2009 > 8:24 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From douglas342 at aol.com Fri Feb 6 06:15:44 2009 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:15:44 -0500 Subject: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! In-Reply-To: <935227.5805.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB56397A7CB758-CF8-2489@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> I screwed up. I was Tivoing the game and somehow missed the OT. I am sorry the Cs lost, but having seen 48 minutes of a tie game, I'll tell you that this NBA fan thought that was a terrific game - two great teams going at it hammer and tongs. The wrong team won, but someone has to lose. Bitch about calls, substitutions, fine. A great game. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan W To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 9:26 pm Subject: Re: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! The officiating was terrible, you're right about that. And while I complain about the refs all the time, two guys that don't, Ray Allen and Doc Rivers, did a lot of complaining in the post-game press conferences about the officiating, both agreeing that the last play of overtime was a foul (and that KG's foul was some BULLSHIT). There were two different games called and when the refs struggled to 'tone down the game' in the 3rd quarter, all they really did was start calling a bunch of cheap ass fouls on us. Way to control the game, guys. Seriously, we were in the penalty in the 3rd (with 6 minutes left), in the 4th and in overtime. The Lakers weren't in the penalty at all in the 2nd half. I thought Doc did the right thing with Baby. The thing is, he needed someone who could shoot a jumper or the La kers would have just packed it into the lane. As it was, we still settled too much for jump shots. Don't blame Baby, blame the 20 previous seconds where we dribbled around the perimeter... I do think Doc could have showed a little more creativity with the end of regulation and end of overtime plays. We got terrible shots both times. The Lakers played good defense, but the plays were easily defensible. Ryan --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: Bad loss BUT horrible officiating! > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:21 PM > I don't blame the refs too often, but this was a > terribly refed game! There > were muggings going on not called all game and ticky tac > fouls called right > & left. 6th on KG, horrible HE was fouled by Gasol > resulting in him losing > the ball. Leon's arm was practically pulled off on one > play resulting in a > Laker fast break, nothing! Pierce, well he was beat to > death tonight! For > one of the few times this year, I thought Doc really blew > it. Leon played > his best game in a while, so when KG fouled out, he brings > in Baby! ?? We > were having a bad time scoring with Baby & Perk on the > floor, I would have > subbed House in for Perk or Baby, make the Lakers match=2 0up. > WHAT kind of > plays were drawn up at the end of regulation & OT?? > No idea what they were > supposed to do. UGLY Doc usually comes up with plays to > get someone open > but not tonight. Chalk it up to a bad night all around. > If Lakers hit > their FTs, this isn't a close game anyway so we > probably did not deserve to > win, but I never, ever want to lose to the Lakers! Never!! > Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of John Lyell > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:18 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Bad loss > > We better get aan athletic big man that can shoot and > defend or it isn't > going to happen, Gasol has killed us both games and Odom > scored easily. Leon > and baby can't defend big mobile players > ? > Pierce misses key free throw. > ? > What was with those poor plays at the end? > ? > ? > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release > Date: 2/4/2009 > 8:24 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release =0 A> Date: 2/4/2009 > 8:24 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 12:15:27 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 04:15:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: what I saw Message-ID: <333961.29950.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have watched the second taping (the last 7 minutes plus overtime).? We lost it with Pierce's lax guarding of Bryant, allowing three straight threes in a row.? Only the third was slightly contested.? When Pierce put pressure on Bryant it worked quite well, but we went from a 5 point lead to a tie situation unnecessarily.? The missed freebies were big, but Pierce also scored in the fourth, keeping us in there.? Davis made the big hustle play when re-inserted in the fourth, made a big jumper in overtime--I can't see that his presence hurt more than others who were missing jumpers down the stretch.? Perkins seems in a trough for now.? He's doing little things that are unnecessary, and he's getting caught.? Otoh, Fisher is a cagey pro; his leadership on offense plus his acting job on "fouls" helped them immensely.? The Globe has an article about the third tier officials being assigned to such a big game. Garnett will be better, Davis will hit more shots, and team defense will stout up.? The fakers won't beat us if we both get to the finals.? Cheers, Gene From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Feb 7 11:14:29 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 03:14:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? Message-ID: <286527.97571.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> R Howe, If you would like to watch the games on the internet there are a couple of good website that broadcast for free: http://www.myp2p.eu/ (just click on "Live Sports" and then "Basketball") http://p2ptube.net/ NBA.com also have free audio now but I tried it a couple of weeks ago and it didn't work. I'm not sure if it is now working: http://www.nba.com/broadband/alp_schedule.html Hope this helps. ------- Good win over the Knicks last night, we needed it with the tough schedule coming up: Spurs, Hornets, Mavericks, *All Star break*, Jazz, Suns, Nuggets (then Clippers) After the Spurs game the following 6 games are on the road. The good thing is there is a 6 day break between the Mavs game and the Jazz game- a good chance for the team to get some much needed rest (apart from the Big 3 in the All Star game). If the C's go 4-3 in the 7 games listed above it would be fine I reckon, the team has more than proved they are title contenders. Anything better than 4 wins will be a bonus (and it will help the home court advantage for the playoffs). Cheers Adam --- R Howe wrote: Interesting take on the chemistry aspect to this. I am out here in Guam so I dont get to watch very many games, when I dont I use 30 sec interval reports as games are in progress. I have noticed that your right about House doing well at least in the recent past with Gabe and R.A. is it because that unit is more in sync with each other? Go C's Beat LA!! --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ryan W wrote: From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Why cant we have both? To: "Celtics list" Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:45 PM Good thoughts. The problem with House is that he needs to play off-the-ball to be successful. And since he's under 6 foot, that presents all kinds of other problems. When you ask him to play a little point (which is pretty much all he can do), he doesn't get the open looks and is forced to shoot more off-the-dribble, which he isn't very good at... And if you trace most of House's success this season, it's been at the 2 guard with Pruitt playing point, which basically allows Eddie to chuck at will. So, as you suggest, if I were Doc I'd try to work Pruitt in with House and Ray (Ray and House have great chemistry together, it seems), and let TA play more with Rondo and Paul (all three of whom seem to have great chemistry together). It might be just my subjective take on things, but TA and House, or TA and Ray just don't have great chemistry together, especially when TA or Ray are asked to play at point. Just throwing this out there, but a possible rotation would be to sub Ray out for TA with about 4 minutes left in the 1st quarter, bring Pruitt in around the quarter for Rondo, and then bring House in for Pierce maybe around the 10 minute mark of the 2nd, with Ray coming in for TA at about the 8 minute mark and with Rondo replacing Pruitt at about the 6 minutes mark. Then you bring back Pierce back in sometime after that, depending on House's ability to make buckets. Under this scenario, House probably sees a loss of some minutes, but to me that's something we can get away with, since it's usually clear from the get-go whether House has it going or not, and we don't need to spend any more time than necessary with him on the court, since he's AT BEST a one-dimensional player. Guys like TA or Pruitt, even when they're aren't scoring can do other things to help the team. Eddie's effectiveness lies strictly with his ability to make shots and therefore he should get the least amount of minutes between the three backup guards. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/4/09, R Howe wrote: > From: R Howe > Subject: Why cant we have both? > To: "Celtics list" > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:47 PM > Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the same > time? > > House, when he was the designated gunner for the second > unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now paired > with TA, since his return, has him as just an afterthought > on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing well > within the flow of the game and is showing the old form that > has him doing many things well and playing good D. House > needs to be free to roam to open spots and have team-mates > looking for him, which was happening when he was paired with > Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed sinse > TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that has > Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and House, > that way you might get the best of what both House and TA > have to offer when on the floor. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 22:11:26 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:11:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why cant we have both? In-Reply-To: <286527.97571.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <481064.71951.qm@web56705.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Adam Thanks for the sites, I have tried the audio NBA.com it works ok, still like seeing as I/we see things that broadcasters, posters do not nor concentrate on and that stats do no not show. Even though the Celts will be on an extended road trip I think they are playing well enough now that to lose more than 2 games would be disappointing to the C's. Still thinking that the C's should concentrate on aqquiring a taller athletic 3/4 for the bench that can defend mobile and strong perimeter players and that can hit an outside shot. Are there any to be had? When any of the big 3 go out that job falls to Scals or TA, if we could morph Scals height, bbiq, shooting ability with Tony's athletism that manifests in man-up D, slashing and rebounding then we would have something. Can anyone who has seen rookie Walker play this year in his cameo's say if he projects to be that type of player? If so while Scals has been down why hasnt he been given more burn time? Thinking he is too raw to defend his position out to the perimeter well in the NBA at this point. Hopefully next year. Go C's --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Re: Why cant we have both? > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 6:14 AM > R Howe, > > If you would like to watch the games on the internet there > are a couple of good website that broadcast for free: > > http://www.myp2p.eu/ > > (just click on "Live Sports" and then > "Basketball") > > http://p2ptube.net/ > > NBA.com also have free audio now but I tried it a couple of > weeks ago and it didn't work. I'm not sure if it is > now working: > > http://www.nba.com/broadband/alp_schedule.html > > Hope this helps. > > ------- > > Good win over the Knicks last night, we needed it with the > tough schedule coming up: > > Spurs, Hornets, Mavericks, *All Star break*, Jazz, Suns, > Nuggets (then Clippers) > > After the Spurs game the following 6 games are on the road. > The good thing is there is a 6 day break between the Mavs > game and the Jazz game- a good chance for the team to get > some much needed rest (apart from the Big 3 in the All Star > game). > > If the C's go 4-3 in the 7 games listed above it would > be fine I reckon, the team has more than proved they are > title contenders. Anything better than 4 wins will be a > bonus (and it will help the home court advantage for the > playoffs). > > Cheers > > Adam > > > > --- R Howe wrote: > Interesting take on the chemistry aspect to this. I am out > here in Guam so I dont get to watch very many games, when I > dont I use 30 sec interval reports as games are in progress. > I have noticed that your right about House doing well at > least in the recent past with Gabe and R.A. is it because > that unit is more in sync with each other? > > Go C's Beat LA!! > > --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ryan W yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Ryan W > Subject: Re: Why cant we have both? > To: "Celtics list" > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:45 PM > > Good thoughts. The problem with House is that he needs to > play off-the-ball to > be successful. And since he's under 6 foot, that > presents all kinds of > other problems. When you ask him to play a little point > (which is pretty much > all he can do), he doesn't get the open looks and is > forced to shoot more > off-the-dribble, which he isn't very good at... And if > you trace most of > House's success this season, it's been at the 2 > guard with Pruitt > playing point, which basically allows Eddie to chuck at > will. > > So, as you suggest, if I were Doc I'd try to work > Pruitt in with House and > Ray (Ray and House have great chemistry together, it > seems), and let TA play > more with Rondo and Paul (all three of whom seem to have > great chemistry > together). It might be just my subjective take on things, > but TA and House, or > TA and Ray just don't have great chemistry together, > especially when TA or > Ray are asked to play at point. Just throwing this out > there, but a possible > rotation would be to sub Ray out for TA with about 4 > minutes left in the 1st > quarter, bring Pruitt in around the quarter for Rondo, and > then bring House in > for Pierce maybe around the 10 minute mark of the 2nd, with > Ray coming in for TA > at about the 8 minute mark and with Rondo replacing Pruitt > at about the 6 > minutes mark. Then you bring back Pierce back in sometime > after that, depending > on House's ability to make buckets. Under this > scenario, House probably > sees a loss of some minutes, but to me that's > something we can get away with, since it's usually > clear from the get-go > whether House has it going or not, and we don't need to > spend any more time > than necessary with him on the court, since he's AT > BEST a one-dimensional > player. Guys like TA or Pruitt, even when they're > aren't scoring can do > other things to help the team. Eddie's effectiveness > lies strictly with > his ability to make shots and therefore he should get the > least amount of > minutes between the three backup guards. > > Ryan > > > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, R Howe > wrote: > > > From: R Howe > > Subject: Why cant we have both? > > To: "Celtics list" igtc.com> > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:47 PM > > Why cant we have both TA & House productive at the > same > > time? > > > > House, when he was the designated gunner for the > second > > unit was an assassin during TA's absence. Now > paired > > with TA, since his return, has him as just an > afterthought > > on offence. The good is that TA seems to be playing > well > > within the flow of the game and is showing the old > form that > > has him doing many things well and playing good D. > House > > needs to be free to roam to open spots and have > team-mates > > looking for him, which was happening when he was > paired with > > Pruitt and R. Allen but his role seems to have changed > sinse > > TA has come back. I would love to see a lineup that > has > > Pruitt or even Rhondo at times paired with TA and > House, > > that way you might get the best of what both House and > TA > > have to offer when on the floor. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Sun Feb 8 01:41:04 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:41:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: On the block rumors Message-ID: <626658.73311.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Some targets, not sure if we can match salaries. ? Kaman & Al Thornton(replaces Posey)??supposedley all available except Camby & Gorden. not sure we can match contracts unless we move about 4 players. Tony, Perk & Giddens #1 ? Sean Williams & Hayes? ? Hornets having financial issues and looking to dump Chandler and even Posey could be moved, These two could help us but would cost us Perk and?a few others. I would take a Chandler for Perk swap ? Baby or Leon (Preferably POB) & Pruitt for?Travis Outlaw & Bayless or Sergio Rodriguez?? ? ? ? ? ? ? From BDodgers at aol.com Sun Feb 8 01:57:32 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:57:32 EST Subject: Lakers swap Radmanovic for Morrison Message-ID: Lakers swap Radmanovic for Morrison Associated Press CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The _Charlotte Bobcats_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha) traded managing partner _Michael Jordan_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1035) 's first draft pick on Saturday, sending struggling forward _Adam Morrison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3016) and reserve guard _Shannon Brown_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2992) to the _Los Angeles Lakers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) for forward _Vladimir Radmanovic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1016) . Jordan's first major decision after becoming part owner with the final say on all basketball decisions was taking Morrison with the third overall pick in the 2006 draft over _Brandon Roy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027) , _Rudy Gay_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3005) and others. The former Gonzaga star known in college for his shaggy hair and thin mustache never lived up to expectations and had fallen out of favor with first-year coach Larry Brown. He was jettisoned for the 6-foot-10 Radmanovic, who was averaging 5.9 points and 2.5 rebounds a game with the Lakers. The move is a sign of another failed decision by Jordan, who was widely criticized for selecting _Kwame Brown_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981) with the No. 1 overall pick in 2001 when he ran the _Washington Wizards_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=was) . "We definitely wish him well," Bobcats general manager _Rod Higgins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3734) said of Morrison. "He's a good kid and hopefully he gets an opportunity to play. You never know, he might get a chance to win a [championship] ring." The move is the third trade the Bobcats have made this season in a roster shakeup under Brown, who is trying to get the fifth-year Bobcats to the playoffs for the first time. Radmanovic will become the 22nd player to suit up for Charlotte this season, an NBA high. Morrison and Brown were never a good fit. Morrison's defensive deficiencies didn't mesh with Brown's style, and Morrison had failed to hit shots consistently, struggling in a starting role the past four games after small forward _Gerald Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1026) suffered a partially collapsed lung and a broken rib against the Lakers on Jan. 27. Morrison, who cut his trademark hair short before this season, will get a chance to crack the Lakers' rotation and become an outside scoring threat. Morrison, who averaged a national-best 28.1 points for Gonzaga in 2005-06, missed all of last season after tearing a knee ligament in a preseason game. Morrison, due about $5.3 million next season in the final year of his rookie contract, was averaging just 4.5 points while shooting 36 percent from the field and 34 percent from 3-point range. The deal also gives the Lakers some salary-cap relief. Radmanovic is owed $6.5 million next season and $6.9 million a year later in a player option. He gives the Bobcats more depth up front. Higgins said Radmanovic will likely play both small and power forward. "Being a 6-10 guy, obviously he brings some height as well as some athleticism," Higgins said. "He's guy that can make some shots. I think he will fit in with our current roster well." Shannon Brown was signed in the offseason and had played sparingly until Friday night, when he committed a turnover and had a shot blocked in the closing seconds of a 102-97 loss to Atlanta. A groin injury to starting shooting guard _Raja Bell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=49) put Brown into the lineup. Higgins said they were arranging for Radmanovic to fly from Cleveland, where the Lakers play the Cavaliers on Sunday, to Miami. The Bobcats play the Heat Sunday night. Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press **************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000003) From noah.evans at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 04:58:26 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:58:26 +0900 Subject: On the block rumors In-Reply-To: <626658.73311.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <626658.73311.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902072058t309d1855xa7a55f5a189a4c83@mail.gmail.com> None of those trades work. Kaman is good at putting up stats, but he's too inconsistent at doing the little things to be a valuable contributer on a team like the Celtics. Thorton might be good, but he's a little green for what we need. Sean Williams is *horrible*. He has talent but he's just as crazy as Tinsley or David Harrison. We don't want him anywhere near this team. Perk and Chandler may both have injury issues, but Perk is *far* more important to our chemistry. KG is already a rich man's chandler, we need a bruiser and intimidator like Perk far more than we need another rangy shotblocker. I'd love to have Posey back, but I'd be unwilling to give up anything that the hornets would want for him. The grass is always greener when it comes to other people's players but Baby and Leon are too useful(unless would could turn them into size like Joe Pryzbilla on the Blazers, but they'd want more for him.) On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM, John Lyell wrote: > Some targets, not sure if we can match salaries. > > Kaman & Al Thornton(replaces Posey) supposedley all available except Camby & Gorden. not sure we can match contracts unless we move about 4 players. Tony, Perk & Giddens #1 > > Sean Williams & Hayes? > > Hornets having financial issues and looking to dump Chandler and even Posey could be moved, These two could help us but would cost us Perk and a few others. I would take a Chandler for Perk swap > > Baby or Leon (Preferably POB) & Pruitt for Travis Outlaw & Bayless or Sergio Rodriguez?? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 18:58:35 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:58:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why Are The Celtics Covering Up The Death Of Danny Ainge? Message-ID: <650689.98367.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's evident that sometime shortly after the Celtics won their championship in 2008, Danny Ainge succumbed and the team was left without a Director of Basketball operations. And the Celtics have engaged in a conspiracy to cover up Ainge's termination ever since, to keep hidden from the fans, their lack of managerial leadership. How else could one explain the complete non-improvement of personnel and total lack of moves to reinvigorate the club, since the Summer of 2008? Ainge has croaked. Lucky is available. Snatch him up. Ray From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Sun Feb 8 19:14:41 2009 From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:14:41 -0500 Subject: Why Are The Celtics Covering Up The Death Of Danny Ainge? In-Reply-To: <650689.98367.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <650689.98367.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200902081914.n18JEjd5026440@artemis.afrc.af.mil> You can always count on Ray to espouse the Chicken Little Theorem to it's ultimate. The sky is always falling. The rest of the league is always better...the grass is always greener...our players stink...our bench blows...draft was horrible...our coach is brain dead...our GM IS dead...our owners are satan incarnate... In your reality Ray...does Mr Mtzylplk rule over a Staples center with 76 championship banners to the Celtics negative 11 (the penalties for Bill Russell, drafting Larry Bird and trading for Kevin Garnett respectively)? Is it a place where the Celtics have endured two straight 0-82 seasons (after 60 something 1-81 seasons before that - I mean there are always the Knicks to beat up on) in 2007/2008 and 2009? A world where "WOTR Stamp of Approval" (patent not so pending) players are the only allowable Celtics (despite the fact most of them, in fact...are pretty lousy themselves)? A glorious hallowed hall where the rotting corpses of GMs and Coaches past swing in rusted gibbets hanging from the rafters? My God man...enjoy a Slushee or something...although you'd probably just complain about the brain freeze. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 1:59 PM To: Celtics Stuff; Celtics Are Idiots List Subject: Why Are The Celtics Covering Up The Death Of Danny Ainge? It's evident that sometime shortly after the Celtics won their championship in 2008, Danny Ainge succumbed and the team was left without a Director of Basketball operations. And the Celtics have engaged in a conspiracy to cover up Ainge's termination ever since, to keep hidden from the fans, their lack of managerial leadership. How else could one explain the complete non-improvement of personnel and total lack of moves to reinvigorate the club, since the Summer of 2008? Ainge has croaked. Lucky is available. Snatch him up. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 19:20:04 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:20:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trade For Amare, If The Celtics Can Ever Retrieve Ainge From The Underworld Message-ID: <4131.98157.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hopefully, while Ainge has enjoyed his stay in Hell, he hasn't eaten any pomegranate seeds, so he can return back before the spring trading deadline and put together a deal for Amare. The Celtics trade for Amare, you say somewhat incredulously? Yes, why not? What's so wrong, with thinking outside the box a bit, and acknowledging the fact, that as the Celtics are presently constructed, they won't beat either Cleveland or LA? So, why not deconstruct the club somewhat, and enable a three-or-four-team deal, where the Celtics send out Rondo, Perkins, et al and receive Amare, Grant Hill, and a PG? The Celtics won it with the mid-sized three last year, so why not reinvent the paradigm, and take the championship with the gargantuan four this season? Amare, Garnett, Pierce and Allen - which teams could hope to match up with those four? Ray From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 00:37:35 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:37:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: so what Message-ID: <311310.5693.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just finished the game.? We may not get home court advantage, but those guys aren't going to beat us--none of 'em.? Gene From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 14:21:43 2009 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 06:21:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: so what In-Reply-To: <311310.5693.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <627412.65944.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I dunno - loss at home to Lakers, loss at home to Spurs.?? Why will that be different in a 7-game series????? TAllen instead of Posey is a BIG difference.? And Eddie House got no 3-point looks in this game. Loved the game, though - similar teams, real pros, team play, etc.? And, I love that we finally have someone better than Tim Duncan!!? (no sour grapes, of course ; ) ?-Ellie --- On Sun, 2/8/09, gene kirkpatrick wrote: From: gene kirkpatrick Subject: so what To: "celtics" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 7:37 PM Just finished the game.? We may not get home court advantage, but those guys aren't going to beat us--none of 'em.? Gene _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From noah.evans at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 14:25:06 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 23:25:06 +0900 Subject: so what In-Reply-To: <627412.65944.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <311310.5693.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <627412.65944.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902090625gb64c5a4q14d1eeda41ba6cd0@mail.gmail.com> Regular seasons games don't mean much. Especially now that *every* team comes to play against the C's every night. The main thing I hope is that the C's hold on to that killer instinct they developed as the playoffs went on. We had more trouble with the Hawks than we did with the Lakers. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Ellie Cutler wrote: > I dunno - loss at home to Lakers, loss at home to Spurs. Why will that be different in a 7-game series? TAllen instead of Posey is a BIG difference. And Eddie House got no 3-point looks in this game. > > Loved the game, though - similar teams, real pros, team play, etc. > > And, I love that we finally have someone better than Tim Duncan!! (no sour grapes, of course ; ) > > -Ellie > > --- On Sun, 2/8/09, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > From: gene kirkpatrick > Subject: so what > To: "celtics" > Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 7:37 PM > > Just finished the game. We may not get home court advantage, but those guys > aren't going to beat us--none of 'em. Gene > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Mon Feb 9 17:26:22 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:26:22 -0500 Subject: so what In-Reply-To: <627412.65944.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <311310.5693.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <627412.65944.qm@web63102.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008c01c98adb$876c1c50$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> I agree Ellie. I now I will get flamed for this, but T. Allen is a detriment to us IF he is used in combination with House, Leon, Baby & Pierce. Here is why! He is a worse detriment shooting than Rondo is, he is horrible and teams are dropping off him. He can occasionally get to the rim, but he, House & Pierce turn the offense into dribble fest 2009! There is no one who can get a shot for anyone. Pierce can get his own shot, but he ends up going 1 on 3 and his turnovers have been going up since teams are figuring out how to play. I think Tony is the most expendable of the bunch and I would much rather have Gabe running point "or another PG Marbury or whomever" setting up House & Pierce/Allen which ever is out there. Baby & Leon are just out there setting screens. When Scal comes back, I am anxious to see if he plays & who sits. Our offense if much better when Scal is out there, "did I say that?". Teams can't pack it in. Just my thoughts, but we definitely need to upgrade for the playoffs. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:22 AM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Re: so what I dunno - loss at home to Lakers, loss at home to Spurs.?? Why will that be different in a 7-game series????? TAllen instead of Posey is a BIG difference.? And Eddie House got no 3-point looks in this game. Loved the game, though - similar teams, real pros, team play, etc.? And, I love that we finally have someone better than Tim Duncan!!? (no sour grapes, of course ; ) ?-Ellie --- On Sun, 2/8/09, gene kirkpatrick wrote: From: gene kirkpatrick Subject: so what To: "celtics" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 7:37 PM Just finished the game.? We may not get home court advantage, but those guys aren't going to beat us--none of 'em.? Gene _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 18:07:45 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:07:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: so what Message-ID: <905008.70467.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> good points on tony, Troy, but he did get us 6 quick points Sunday, and he does pass well enough when he penetrates; I think the best use would be to insert Gabe alongside House, giving us two deep shooters plus either Pierce or Ray.? I still think the offense gets too focused on the single big three rep (either Pierce or Ray) and it clogs up, making them take desperation shots & keeping others from involvement in the offensive flow.? I'd rather see no big three rep or a point guard direct things.? Perhaps better to put Rondo in for half the bench time if Gabe isn't ready for that.? Gene From pdelevett at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 19:25:00 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trade talk Message-ID: <913014.60602.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The problem with Ray's Stoudemire idea is that "et al" would also have to include Scalabrine, House and Tony (in addition to Rondo and Perk) just to match Amare's salary, let alone Grant Hill's or anybody else's. I'm not necessarily averse to another 5-for-1 trade, but if you're gonna give up 2 starters (one of whom is 5th in the league in both assists and steals), you better make darn sure Amare and KG can coexist. And isn't the whole reason Stoudemire wants out of PHX because he wants to be the "featured" guy on a team? Hard to see that happening here. John Lyell does pose some interesting possibilities. Thornton and Outlaw could both help the Celtics immediately, if their teams were really willing to move them. And I've been hoping all year the C's might try to reacquire Posey. Tony and Big Baby could net you Thornton and Brian Skinner, who would add beef to our bench (though if I'm LA I'd also demand Walker be thrown in). Scalabrine and Walker would work cap-wise for Outlaw. Scabs, Walker and Louisiana's own Glen Davis could land Posey from New Orleans, which is currently in 4th place in the West but could easily slip to 7th. I'd do any of these deals, though I'm not holding my breath. On an unrelated trade note, the Radmanovich-Morrison swap is oddly interesting. Vlad's numbers are down this year, but if I'm the Lakers I have to think he's more ready than the 'Stache to help me get back to the Finals. That said, while it pains me to wish any Laker well, it would be nice to see Morrison revive his pro career, considering how beautifully he played in college. From BDodgers at aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:46:54 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:46:54 EST Subject: Jefferson has torn ACL in right knee Message-ID: Jefferson has torn ACL in right knee Associated Press MINNEAPOLIS -- _Minnesota Timberwolves_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=min) star center _Al Jefferson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389) is out indefinitely with a torn ACL in his right knee. A Big Loss Al Jefferson's injury leaves Minnesota with a huge hole to fill. Not only is Jefferson the team's leading scorer and rebounder, but he also put up some of the better numbers in the league this season. NBA Rank PPG 23.1 7th RPG 10.9 6th Double-doubles 30 5th Blocks 83 T-12th The team made the announcement Monday after a somber practice. Coach Kevin McHale said Jefferson will likely have surgery to repair the injury in the next week to 10 days. Jefferson hurt his knee when he landed awkwardly late in Sunday's 101-97 loss to New Orleans. He was examined Monday, when the anterior cruciate ligament tear was discovered. Jefferson is the team's leading scorer and rebounder, at 23.1 points and 11 rebounds per game. He is one of only three players, along with Orlando's _Dwight Howard_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2384) and San Antonio's _Tim Duncan_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=215) , to average at least 20 points and 10 rebounds a game this season. "Al's played at such a high level for this team and been such a big part of our team," McHale said. "Everybody around here today is a little bit down in the dumps." It was devastating news for a young Timberwolves team that has been playing better in 2009 after getting off to a 4-23 start to the season. With Jefferson the focal point, the Wolves went 10-4 in January, and the 24-year-old center was playing even better early in this month. He had 36 points and 22 rebounds in a loss at Houston on Saturday night and followed that up with 25 points and 14 boards before getting injured in the final 30 seconds against the Hornets on Sunday. "I feel terrible for Al. Al's really, right now, devastated by it," McHale said. "It all happens for a reason. It's hard for me to figure out what this reason is. Somehow he's just going to have to make the best of it and rehab and get better and move on from here." **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002) From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 22:45:41 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:45:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: To Cheer You Up... Message-ID: <123810.22169.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The Celtics have a chance to be a much better team next year. If Danny Ainge, last seen during the Summer of 2008 at a Mormon temple with three bighorn sheep, doesn't re-enact this past offseason's disaster. That means, a trade of Ray Allen and other expiring contracts for a SG and a young big man. The Full Max exception of three years or more to a Rasheed Wallace. The signing of proven veteran players rather than any POB types. Replacing POB with Semih Erden, whom is exhibiting a bit of promising play these days with Fenerbahce Ulker. And a sign and trade for Robert Swift wouldn't hurt. Also, purchasing a Late First Round Pick is a good idea. It's not a great draft, but there will be some players available who can contribute right away. And why not finally go after a quality European free agent. Ray From callmebogie at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 22:59:17 2009 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:59:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: WOTR Seal of Approval In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <636246.46913.qm@web56806.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ray, I have to hand it to you - your posts are always entertaining. <> "much better" than 42-11? Do tell. <> Leaving Danny's religion out of it - "disaster"? I realize that their winning percentage is now sub-.800, but "disaster"? <> Young big man? You mean like Ernest Brown? And any particular SG? <> "A" Rasheed Wallace? How many of them are there? <> Proven veteran player? You mean like Ernest Brown? (I forget exactly where he fits in the WOTR Pantheon.) <> POB has exhibited "a bit of promising play" at times this season too - with an actual NBA team. <> Wouldn't hurt whom? What would you want to give up for him? <> Right. Because if there's anything the Cs need going into next year, it's rookies. <> Such as? From tfmiii at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 10 03:02:45 2009 From: tfmiii at worldnet.att.net (Tom Murphy) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:02:45 -0700 Subject: Al jefferson's torn ACL Message-ID: <59F886B14D99486699A40B580134DFC5@D1FFY321> So much more the pity that big Al did not get the All-Star berth that he earned this season, with this injury who knows if he will ever have the opportunity again? Such a shame :( From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 10 03:21:29 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:21:29 -0500 Subject: Al jefferson's torn ACL In-Reply-To: <59F886B14D99486699A40B580134DFC5@D1FFY321> References: <59F886B14D99486699A40B580134DFC5@D1FFY321> Message-ID: <0KET00IXRYL2FOG1@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> At 10:02 PM 2/9/2009, Tom Murphy wrote: >So much more the pity that big Al did not get the All-Star berth >that he earned this season, with this injury who knows if he will >ever have the opportunity again? Such a shame :( Funny, I was actually thinking the opposite, where it would have been tough to get it and not participate, with a replacement added instead so that in everyone's memories it would seem as if he wasn't picked. In any case, poor Al and poor Twolves. Tough break for him and a team that was finally starting to rise from the doldrums. Kim From tfmiii at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 10 03:30:09 2009 From: tfmiii at worldnet.att.net (Tom Murphy) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:30:09 -0700 Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? Message-ID: <5325B686A5E04825A2A4D5DB8B4D0F57@D1FFY321> If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could swap them Tony Allen and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would clear two years' worth of salary obligations right off the books.... of course it was the last few years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... and how it might cost us in terms of ability to resign our own assets. The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the three ball and defend the two, three, and four positions. For all the good work Posey did on Kobe, he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey would improve our rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny would have to play a hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think Byron Scott has a soft spot for the Cs. From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Tue Feb 10 03:42:01 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:42:01 -0500 Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <5325B686A5E04825A2A4D5DB8B4D0F57@D1FFY321> References: <5325B686A5E04825A2A4D5DB8B4D0F57@D1FFY321> Message-ID: <00ce01c98b31$88c351d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> I would do this in a heart beat! Best, reasonably possible idea/deal, I have read on here. Not sure it makes sense for NO but they would shed some $$. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Tom Murphy Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM To: Celtic list Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could swap them Tony Allen and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would clear two years' worth of salary obligations right off the books.... of course it was the last few years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... and how it might cost us in terms of ability to resign our own assets. The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the three ball and defend the two, three, and four positions. For all the good work Posey did on Kobe, he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey would improve our rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny would have to play a hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think Byron Scott has a soft spot for the Cs. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 03:48:37 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:48:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <00ce01c98b31$88c351d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <966767.71812.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on during the offseason? It doesn't make sense. There are better players to be had in free agency this offseason and I expect us to sign at least one of those players with our MLE. And whomever that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be a better use of money AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If there are any improvements to be made, they're coming over the waiver wire. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:42 PM > I would do this in a heart beat! Best, reasonably possible > idea/deal, I > have read on here. Not sure it makes sense for NO but they > would shed some > $$. > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Tom Murphy > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM > To: Celtic list > Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could swap > them Tony Allen > and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would clear two > years' worth of > salary obligations right off the books.... of course it was > the last few > years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... and how > it might cost us > in terms of ability to resign our own assets. > > The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the three > ball and defend > the two, three, and four positions. For all the good work > Posey did on Kobe, > he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey would > improve our > rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny > would have to play a > hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think Byron > Scott has a soft spot > for the Cs. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Tue Feb 10 03:55:31 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:55:31 -0500 Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <966767.71812.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <00ce01c98b31$88c351d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <966767.71812.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00de01c98b33$6b91f3d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> To answer your 1st question, I think it is obvious to most now just how valuable Pose is/was. It makes sense in the fact that we are playing for NOW. Now being this year and next year. I seriously doubt any of the the better players will take the MLE next year, if you don't believe me, see how many took it this year. None. I agree with your final comment, any improvement we make will probably come via waivers cause we really don't have any trading chips that anyone wants right now, neither young talent or expiring contracts. Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:49 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on during the offseason? It doesn't make sense. There are better players to be had in free agency this offseason and I expect us to sign at least one of those players with our MLE. And whomever that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be a better use of money AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If there are any improvements to be made, they're coming over the waiver wire. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:42 PM > I would do this in a heart beat! Best, reasonably possible > idea/deal, I > have read on here. Not sure it makes sense for NO but they > would shed some > $$. > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Tom Murphy > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM > To: Celtic list > Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could swap > them Tony Allen > and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would clear two > years' worth of > salary obligations right off the books.... of course it was > the last few > years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... and how > it might cost us > in terms of ability to resign our own assets. > > The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the three > ball and defend > the two, three, and four positions. For all the good work > Posey did on Kobe, > he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey would > improve our > rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny > would have to play a > hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think Byron > Scott has a soft spot > for the Cs. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release Date: 2/9/2009 6:50 AM From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 05:33:54 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 21:33:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <00de01c98b33$6b91f3d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <932942.22439.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> The free agent class in 09 is much better than last years and I think a couple of those free agents, especially the older more well known ones are going to sign the MLE for a chance at a ring. Last season, there was little supply and high demand and people got overpaid. This offseason, there will be high supply and less demand. It's going to be a buyer's market, especially with the financial crisis doing what it's doing. If Posey were a free agent this year, he'd be lucky to get half of what he got this past summer. The reason we passed on Posey is because of how it hampers our ability to add free agents and pay Rondo in the next 3 to 4 years. It was and remains a sound business decision, even if it puts us in a worse position to win the 'chip this season. As for the free agent market, hopefully a few good players will get bought out before the March deadline. Right now, there are few viable options on the market. And depending on who is or isn't bought out, at what point does bringing back Antoine Walker become a viable option? If no PJ, no Joe Smith, no Marbury, no anyone else, maybe Antoine is a decent option. I'm just saying at some point his name has got to enter the conversation. That should be fun. Ryan --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:55 PM > To answer your 1st question, I think it is obvious to most > now just how > valuable Pose is/was. It makes sense in the fact that we > are playing for > NOW. Now being this year and next year. I seriously > doubt any of the the > better players will take the MLE next year, if you > don't believe me, see how > many took it this year. None. I agree with your final > comment, any > improvement we make will probably come via waivers cause we > really don't > have any trading chips that anyone wants right now, neither > young talent or > expiring contracts. Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Ryan W > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:49 PM > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on > during the > offseason? It doesn't make sense. > > There are better players to be had in free agency this > offseason and I > expect us to sign at least one of those players with our > MLE. And whomever > that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be > a better use of money > AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If there are > any improvements > to be made, they're coming over the waiver wire. > > Ryan > > > --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash > wrote: > > > From: Troy Hash > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing > List'" > > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:42 PM > > I would do this in a heart beat! Best, reasonably > possible > > idea/deal, I > > have read on here. Not sure it makes sense for NO but > they > > would shed some > > $$. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > Of Tom Murphy > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM > > To: Celtic list > > Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > > If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could > swap > > them Tony Allen > > and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would > clear two > > years' worth of > > salary obligations right off the books.... of course > it was > > the last few > > years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... > and how > > it might cost us > > in terms of ability to resign our own assets. > > > > The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the > three > > ball and defend > > the two, three, and four positions. For all the good > work > > Posey did on Kobe, > > he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey > would > > improve our > > rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny > > would have to play a > > hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think > Byron > > Scott has a soft spot > > for the Cs. > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - > Release > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - > Release > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > Date: 2/9/2009 > 6:50 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 10 05:47:33 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:47:33 -0500 Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <932942.22439.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <00de01c98b33$6b91f3d0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> <932942.22439.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KEU001ES571R401@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> You know what Ryan, I'm starting to get twitchy about how often we seem to agree these days. Dead on. Just please, don't post ideas like bringing Antoine back late in the evening when it can trigger nightmares. Great guy as a person but I don't see where he solves much for us now. Not much left of a game that wouldn't have fit in well here at its peak. Well maybe when he was a rookie and had some athleticism. Kim At 12:33 AM 2/10/2009, Ryan W wrote: >The free agent class in 09 is much better than last years and I >think a couple of those free agents, especially the older more well >known ones are going to sign the MLE for a chance at a ring. Last >season, there was little supply and high demand and people got >overpaid. This offseason, there will be high supply and less >demand. It's going to be a buyer's market, especially with the >financial crisis doing what it's doing. If Posey were a free agent >this year, he'd be lucky to get half of what he got this past summer. > >The reason we passed on Posey is because of how it hampers our >ability to add free agents and pay Rondo in the next 3 to 4 >years. It was and remains a sound business decision, even if it >puts us in a worse position to win the 'chip this season. > >As for the free agent market, hopefully a few good players will get >bought out before the March deadline. Right now, there are few >viable options on the market. And depending on who is or isn't >bought out, at what point does bringing back Antoine Walker become a >viable option? If no PJ, no Joe Smith, no Marbury, no anyone else, >maybe Antoine is a decent option. I'm just saying at some point his >name has got to enter the conversation. That should be fun. > >Ryan > > >--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash wrote: > > > From: Troy Hash > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:55 PM > > To answer your 1st question, I think it is obvious to most > > now just how > > valuable Pose is/was. It makes sense in the fact that we > > are playing for > > NOW. Now being this year and next year. I seriously > > doubt any of the the > > better players will take the MLE next year, if you > > don't believe me, see how > > many took it this year. None. I agree with your final > > comment, any > > improvement we make will probably come via waivers cause we > > really don't > > have any trading chips that anyone wants right now, neither > > young talent or > > expiring contracts. Troy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > Of Ryan W > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:49 PM > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > > Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on > > during the > > offseason? It doesn't make sense. > > > > There are better players to be had in free agency this > > offseason and I > > expect us to sign at least one of those players with our > > MLE. And whomever > > that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be > > a better use of money > > AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If there are > > any improvements > > to be made, they're coming over the waiver wire. > > > > Ryan > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash > > wrote: > > > > > From: Troy Hash > > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing > > List'" > > > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:42 PM > > > I would do this in a heart beat! Best, reasonably > > possible > > > idea/deal, I > > > have read on here. Not sure it makes sense for NO but > > they > > > would shed some > > > $$. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > > Of Tom Murphy > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM > > > To: Celtic list > > > Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > > > > If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, we could > > swap > > > them Tony Allen > > > and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets would > > clear two > > > years' worth of > > > salary obligations right off the books.... of course > > it was > > > the last few > > > years of the contract that Danny was afraid of..... > > and how > > > it might cost us > > > in terms of ability to resign our own assets. > > > > > > The Cs would get a critical cog back who can hit the > > three > > > ball and defend > > > the two, three, and four positions. For all the good > > work > > > Posey did on Kobe, > > > he also did a great job harassing Odom as well. Posey > > would > > > improve our > > > rotation and our morale.... no doubt though that Danny > > > would have to play a > > > hell of a poker hand to get it done, don't think > > Byron > > > Scott has a soft spot > > > for the Cs. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - > > Release > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - > > Release > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 - Release > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Tue Feb 10 12:27:22 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 04:27:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Antoine Walker Article Message-ID: <13587.26554.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I found this article on CelticsBlog a couple of months ago (when Antoine was charged with DUI... ). It is actually a great article (from 2005) that presents Antoine's point of view pretty well after the first time he was traded from Boston and then, subsequently, spent half a season in Atlanta before returning to the C's. Alot has happened since Antoine left for the second time?but if you read this article it may change your viewpoint on Antoine returning to Boston for a 3rd stint... From: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3756860 On Second Thought? Seems like a miracle, but somehow Antoine Walker is back where he belongs by Tom Friend Reunited, and it feels so ? curious. ? Antoine Walker and the Boston Celtics are arm-in-arm again?this time inside the threepoint arc--and no one except Walker's mom is even asking for an apology. The estrangement lasted 16 months, caused by The Wiggle and other indiscretions, but the GM swallowed his pride and the player swallowed fewer carbs, and a deadline deal was struck that righted a terrible wrong. ? It is a case study in You Don't Know What You've Got 'Til It's Gone. In one month, Walker has turned the C's back into a postseason threat and awakened a fan base that used to boo him. He's taken the pressure off a moody Paul Pierce, gained the eccentric ear of Ricky Davis and already become coach Doc Rivers' mouthpiece in the locker room. ? Of course, none of this would have happened if Walker hadn't been able to forgive Danny Ainge, and vice versa. Rarely has a player been so misjudged, or a GM been a big enough man to admit it. Rarely has a player been so rude on his way out the door or a GM turned such a deaf ear to what he said. The Celtics got to see life without Toine, and Toine got to see life without the Celtics, and at the 11th hour, a humbler Ainge ate crow and a humbler Walker let it go. ? This is a story of a player who is more coachable than people thought and a GM who is more flexible than people thought. It's about a player who stopped shimmying and a GM who stopped stereotyping. But at its heart, it's about a phone call from Walker to Pierce, a minute or two after the trade, and a loud message that changed the Celtics' season: "I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!" ? DANNY NEVER did like Toine's game. As an analyst for TNT, he watched Walker play pop-a-shot from downtown and called it cop-out basketball. He said the 6'9" Toine should post up and rebound and utilize his deft passing skills. It all got back to Walker. ? Toine thought, what does he know? Ainge wasn't at practice or in the huddle when Jim O'Brien, then the Celtics' coach, gave Walker the green light. Besides, the bombs-away approach worked. In the 2001-02 season, with Toine leading the NBA with 645 three-point attempts and Pierce taking 520 of his own, Boston got to the Eastern Conference finals. ? So screw Danny. ? But then, in May of 2003, Ainge was named executive director of Celtic basketball operations-a fancy term for GM-and Toine knew he was gone. He wanted a max deal, and Ainge to this day says, "There are few max players." Still, he played the political game, telling Toine he'd always be a Celtic. Toine's mom, Diane, says Ainge told her the same thing when he bumped into her that summer in Walker's hometown of Chicago. ? Summer turned to fall, and Ainge says O'Brien and his coaching staff were in his ear the whole time, discrediting Walker. Toine had taken 1,830 three-pointers over the previous three seasons-one every 5 m inutes-and Danny says the coaches preferred not to face the unenviable task of "taking back Antoine's freedom." So they urged a trade. O'Brien, who now coaches the Sixers, isn't talking, but Ainge says, "Whether they deny it or not, that is an absolute fact, and everyone in my office will verify it." ? Ainge purposely didn't strike up a relationship with Walker as he mulled the next move. He had a lot to think about. Walker's weight was a central issue. Toine had battled leg injuries the previous season and had ballooned to 267 pounds, 22 over his playing weight. He was a fried-chicken fanatic who could down 20 drumsticks doused in hot sauce in one sitting at Harold's Chicken Shack in Chicago. Plus, Beantown fans had started to boo Toine for his wild shot selection, and had grown tired of the upper-body shimmy dance dubbed The Wiggle, especially when he'd break it out with the team down by 10. "People thought Antoine had gotten too comfortable here," says a member of Boston's front office. ? Ainge's word for it was "entitlement." As the season neared, he spoke with Toine and sensed that the player felt it was his right to shoot, his right to dance, his right to earn the max. That did it. On Oct. 20, 2003, Walker and Tony Delk were traded to Dallas for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills and the Mavericks' 2004 firstround pick. Upon hearing the news, an assistant gave Ainge a hug and said, "Thank you. Now I can coach again." ? THEY'D BEEN looking for a scapegoat in all the wrong places. ? Not long after the trade, Walker called Ainge a "snake." He claimed the trade had set the C's back three or four years, that the GM wouldn't be in his job for long. He said Ainge had tried to set his career back by sending him to the loaded Mavericks. Ainge, who figured Walker would be excited to play on a 60-win team, thought, He'd rather be the man than win? Interesting. ? But when Ainge set foot in the Celtics' locker room, he saw a brooding Pierce who was uninterested in being a leader and too moody to be the face of the franchise, often dodging reporters by slipping on his headphones. Pierce now admits that having to take the heat minus Toine "affected other parts of my life." Plus, living up to the legacy of Larry, Bill and Red was a 24/7 job. "Off the court, I was down. I really didn't want to go nowhere." ? Pierce was no example for the sullen center Mark Blount or the flaky forward Ricky Davis, known for wearing a Yankees cap around town. The Celtics quickly became a motley crew: they won only 36 games and O'Brien resigned by midseason. Through it all, though, Toine kept calling Pierce, kept calling equipment manager John Connor, kept checking in. ? He'd been the glue in that locker room, but Ainge hadn't known it. Toine was the one who shielded Pierce from the media, taking the hard questions himself. He was beloved by the ball boys, who would fetch him chicken wings at a nearby tavern so he'd have a hot postgame meal and were rewarded with hundred-dollar handshakes. He gave ? his sneakers away after every game, home and away, because he was able to afford only one pair of Nikes a year when he was a kid. He gave free basketball camps around Boston, and because he'd been raised by a single mom, he started a foundation for kids with one parent. After the trade, he took out a full-page ad in The Boston Globe, thanking whatever loyal fans remained. So when the Mavericks came to Beantown, Toine got a standing O, and saw signs in the seats that said, "Trade Ainge." Absence had made their hearts grow fonder. His too. ? In Dallas, Don Nelson had made Walker fight for minutes for the first time in his life. He couldn't shoot on a whim and tiptoed around the coaches. "I think I did The Wiggle one game, and Nelson was like, `Nah, don't do that here,' " Walker says. "So I didn't do it. Everybody on the team, Dirk, Steve Nash, Mike Finley, used to kill me because I wouldn't dance, because it was like I was scared of Nellie." ? He shot only 305 three-pointers-one every nine minutes-and his average dipped to a careerlow 14 ppg. He felt underutilized; soon he'd be feeling irrelevant. Dallas shipped him in August to what Pierce calls the graveyard of basketball, Atlanta. He didn't wiggle there, either. "They don't have nothing to dance about," Toine says. But he put in an honest night's work. And someone took notice. ? "It was never personal with Antoine; I just didn't like the way he played,'' Ainge says. "I liked his game more in Dallas and Atlanta-spending more time in the box, offensive rebounding." ? Ainge also liked Toine's new body, which had been made over by Michael Jordan's trainer, Tim Grover, and a personal chef. Toine still ate all the chicken he wanted, but now it was without the hot sauce, and by this season's All-Star break he was down to 240 pounds. Meanwhile, the C's were below .500, the Sixers had just acquired Chris Webber, and the team needed a veteran to rein in its hotheaded scorers, Pierce and Davis. Ainge dialed the Hawks GM, Billy Knight. ? Knight loved Toine's leadership, loved how he wore custom-made suits and led the team's tsunami-relief fund-raising. But he didn't want to pay Toine the max. Knight was hoarding draft picks, and Ainge was holding five No. 1's over the next three years. Danny was aware by now that Toine had always been the lightning rod of the Celtic locker room. Through Pierce and other team insiders, he learned that Toine was open to coming back. Ainge suspected Walker would thrive in Doc Rivers' spread offense, and when he asked Rivers about a possible trade for Walker, Doc told him, "We'll start him on the elbows or the post. He won't shoot threes unless he's wide open. We'll reverse the way he used to play." ? So Ainge pulled a mulligan, reacquiring the now 28-year-old forward for Gary Payton, Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart and a conditional No. 1 pick. "Put it on me," he says. "I feel like I made some mistakes evaluating the whole element of what Antoine brought." ? If that's not an apology, it's awfully damn close. ? BUT DIANE Walker wanted more. She was the one who took the forlorn calls from her son over those months of exile, and the one who bristled at Ainge's quotes about how Antoine felt "entitled" to do what he wanted in Boston. "It took a big man to bring my son back," she admits, but she also says what her son will not. ? "I don't know Danny Ainge, don't know anything about the man," she says. "All I know is when he came to Boston, my son had been carrying that team on his back for six years. I'm only speaking as a mother, but don't sit there and say Antoine thought he was bigger than the team. That's a lie." ? Ainge's response: "That's how mothers are supposed to feel. I'm just trying to do what's best for the Celtics." ? Anyway, theirs is not the relationship that matters most. The day of the trade, Toine and Danny made their peace. When Ainge tried to explain the deal that started this whole mess, Walker told him to stop: "I was like, 'All right, I understand. I'm beyond that now.'" ? A much slimmer Walker showed up for his first game in Utah on Feb. 25. It didn't take long for him to identify the Celtics' problems. Ainge had done a masterful job of drafting useful young talent (Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, Delonte West), but someone had to get them to calm down. The rooks responded to Toine right away. Jefferson, who was wearing Walker's former No. 8, said he could have it back under one condition: if he took the kid under his wing. Done. ? Then there was the glum Blount, and Pierce and Davis grappling over fourth-quarter shots. Toine turned out to be the right mediator for each of them. Walker sat down Blount and Davis for one-on-one chats, and he and Pierce continue to have the heart-to-hearts they'd had for years. ? In fact, Pierce spent a portion of last summer at Toine's downtown Chicago condo, and they're chummier now than when they played together the first time. "Opposites attract," Pierce says. Walker still has some work to do on his friend: in a five-day span in March, Pierce nearly fought Bob Sura and Tim Thomas. But there is already little doubt about who's the leader of this crew. During a late timeout against the Jazz, Toine pounded his fist in the huddle and promised the group they were going to win. "Every eye was fixed on him," Rivers says. "I didn't realize he carried such a big stick." ? After Utah, the Celtics beat the Suns on the road, and then Toine returned to a home-crowd standing O against the Lakers. They won that game, then defeated the Pistons in OT, won in Houston (with Walker guarding Yao at times) and tore off 11 wins in the first 12 games after the deal, until their lack of size led to three straight defeats. Pierce, says LaFrentz, is reenergized now that he can slip on those headphones in peace. Toine is posting up almost exclusively, taking only one three-pointer every 9.9 minutes. "I've got perspective now," he says. "Atlanta will do that to you." ? On a recent road trip, Walker sits in a hotel room, chuckling at the irony of it all. He was sent away as an undisciplined egomaniac and summoned back as the sober glue. When he's a free agent this summer, he'll surely point that out to his new pal, Danny, who's hoping Walker won't ask for the max again. Toine's sounding as if he won't, but with a wan smile he says, "They still got to pay me. They ain't avoiding that." Asked whether The Wiggle will ever be seen again, he promises yes. "I felt like doing it in Charlotte after we won late, but I didn't," he says. "Because it was Charlotte. It's a more mature wiggle now. In the playoffs, though, I might not be able to hold back." ? His teammates have begged for it, especially the rookies, who had never seen The Wiggle in the flesh. So recently, Walker broke it out in his most sacred place: the locker room. ? When Danny wasn't watching. ? ? Comments (1-2) * MightyToine (1/24/2009 at 8:58 PM) Report Violation Tom, you should be banned for putting this up. You got my hopes up only 'till I started to read the article and realize it was from 3 years ago. It is driving me nuts right now that there is no further word regarding Antoine and his first(?) brush with the law and that there are no teams(I refuse to believe that nonsense) that would sign him. * FireDannyAingeNOW (1/24/2009 at 6:34 PM) Report Violation Why is this up now? 3 years later. I mean it should happen but it won't. Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From noah.evans at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 12:48:59 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:48:59 +0900 Subject: Antoine Walker Article In-Reply-To: <13587.26554.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <13587.26554.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902100448j55658566vc3c3b4930873e142@mail.gmail.com> As one of Antoine's biggest defenders on the list I really don't want him back. What walker gives you(undersized rebounding, good passing and ballhandling) we're getting from big baby. Antoine really doesn't have that much left in the tank either. We need defenders who can function well in the C's system, that means players like Posey, Joe Smith, McDyess and PJ Brown. On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Adam Patterson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > > I found this article on CelticsBlog a couple of months ago (when Antoine was charged with DUI... ). > > It is actually a great article (from 2005) that presents Antoine's point of view pretty well after the first time he was traded from Boston and then, subsequently, spent half a season in Atlanta before returning to the C's. > > Alot has happened since Antoine left for the second time but if you read this article it may change your viewpoint on Antoine returning to Boston for a 3rd stint... > > > > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3756860 > > On Second Thought? > Seems like a miracle, but somehow Antoine Walker is back where he belongs > by Tom Friend > Reunited, and it feels so ? curious. > > Antoine Walker and the Boston Celtics are arm-in-arm again?this time inside the threepoint arc--and no one except Walker's mom is even asking for an apology. The estrangement lasted 16 months, caused by The Wiggle and other indiscretions, but the GM swallowed his pride and the player swallowed fewer carbs, and a deadline deal was struck that righted a terrible wrong. > > It is a case study in You Don't Know What You've Got 'Til It's Gone. In one month, Walker has turned the C's back into a postseason threat and awakened a fan base that used to boo him. He's taken the pressure off a moody Paul Pierce, gained the eccentric ear of Ricky Davis and already become coach Doc Rivers' mouthpiece in the locker room. > > Of course, none of this would have happened if Walker hadn't been able to forgive Danny Ainge, and vice versa. Rarely has a player been so misjudged, or a GM been a big enough man to admit it. Rarely has a player been so rude on his way out the door or a GM turned such a deaf ear to what he said. The Celtics got to see life without Toine, and Toine got to see life without the Celtics, and at the 11th hour, a humbler Ainge ate crow and a humbler Walker let it go. > > This is a story of a player who is more coachable than people thought and a GM who is more flexible than people thought. It's about a player who stopped shimmying and a GM who stopped stereotyping. But at its heart, it's about a phone call from Walker to Pierce, a minute or two after the trade, and a loud message that changed the Celtics' season: "I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!" > > DANNY NEVER did like Toine's game. As an analyst for TNT, he watched Walker play pop-a-shot from downtown and called it cop-out basketball. He said the 6'9" Toine should post up and rebound and utilize his deft passing skills. It all got back to Walker. > > Toine thought, what does he know? Ainge wasn't at practice or in the huddle when Jim O'Brien, then the Celtics' coach, gave Walker the green light. Besides, the bombs-away approach worked. In the 2001-02 season, with Toine leading the NBA with 645 three-point attempts and Pierce taking 520 of his own, Boston got to the Eastern Conference finals. > > So screw Danny. > > But then, in May of 2003, Ainge was named executive director of Celtic basketball operations-a fancy term for GM-and Toine knew he was gone. He wanted a max deal, and Ainge to this day says, "There are few max players." Still, he played the political game, telling Toine he'd always be a Celtic. Toine's mom, Diane, says Ainge told her the same thing when he bumped into her that summer in Walker's hometown of Chicago. > > Summer turned to fall, and Ainge says O'Brien and his coaching staff were in his ear the whole time, discrediting Walker. Toine had taken 1,830 three-pointers over the previous three seasons-one every 5 m inutes-and Danny says the coaches preferred not to face the unenviable task of "taking back Antoine's freedom." So they urged a trade. O'Brien, who now coaches the Sixers, isn't talking, but Ainge says, "Whether they deny it or not, that is an absolute fact, and everyone in my office will verify it." > > Ainge purposely didn't strike up a relationship with Walker as he mulled the next move. He had a lot to think about. Walker's weight was a central issue. Toine had battled leg injuries the previous season and had ballooned to 267 pounds, 22 over his playing weight. He was a fried-chicken fanatic who could down 20 drumsticks doused in hot sauce in one sitting at Harold's Chicken Shack in Chicago. Plus, Beantown fans had started to boo Toine for his wild shot selection, and had grown tired of the upper-body shimmy dance dubbed The Wiggle, especially when he'd break it out with the team down by 10. "People thought Antoine had gotten too comfortable here," says a member of Boston's front office. > > Ainge's word for it was "entitlement." As the season neared, he spoke with Toine and sensed that the player felt it was his right to shoot, his right to dance, his right to earn the max. That did it. On Oct. 20, 2003, Walker and Tony Delk were traded to Dallas for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills and the Mavericks' 2004 firstround pick. Upon hearing the news, an assistant gave Ainge a hug and said, "Thank you. Now I can coach again." > > THEY'D BEEN looking for a scapegoat in all the wrong places. > > Not long after the trade, Walker called Ainge a "snake." He claimed the trade had set the C's back three or four years, that the GM wouldn't be in his job for long. He said Ainge had tried to set his career back by sending him to the loaded Mavericks. Ainge, who figured Walker would be excited to play on a 60-win team, thought, He'd rather be the man than win? Interesting. > > But when Ainge set foot in the Celtics' locker room, he saw a brooding Pierce who was uninterested in being a leader and too moody to be the face of the franchise, often dodging reporters by slipping on his headphones. Pierce now admits that having to take the heat minus Toine "affected other parts of my life." Plus, living up to the legacy of Larry, Bill and Red was a 24/7 job. "Off the court, I was down. I really didn't want to go nowhere." > > Pierce was no example for the sullen center Mark Blount or the flaky forward Ricky Davis, known for wearing a Yankees cap around town. The Celtics quickly became a motley crew: they won only 36 games and O'Brien resigned by midseason. Through it all, though, Toine kept calling Pierce, kept calling equipment manager John Connor, kept checking in. > > He'd been the glue in that locker room, but Ainge hadn't known it. Toine was the one who shielded Pierce from the media, taking the hard questions himself. He was beloved by the ball boys, who would fetch him chicken wings at a nearby tavern so he'd have a hot postgame meal and were rewarded with hundred-dollar handshakes. He gave > > his sneakers away after every game, home and away, because he was able to afford only one pair of Nikes a year when he was a kid. He gave free basketball camps around Boston, and because he'd been raised by a single mom, he started a foundation for kids with one parent. After the trade, he took out a full-page ad in The Boston Globe, thanking whatever loyal fans remained. So when the Mavericks came to Beantown, Toine got a standing O, and saw signs in the seats that said, "Trade Ainge." Absence had made their hearts grow fonder. His too. > > In Dallas, Don Nelson had made Walker fight for minutes for the first time in his life. He couldn't shoot on a whim and tiptoed around the coaches. "I think I did The Wiggle one game, and Nelson was like, `Nah, don't do that here,' " Walker says. "So I didn't do it. Everybody on the team, Dirk, Steve Nash, Mike Finley, used to kill me because I wouldn't dance, because it was like I was scared of Nellie." > > He shot only 305 three-pointers-one every nine minutes-and his average dipped to a careerlow 14 ppg. He felt underutilized; soon he'd be feeling irrelevant. Dallas shipped him in August to what Pierce calls the graveyard of basketball, Atlanta. He didn't wiggle there, either. "They don't have nothing to dance about," Toine says. But he put in an honest night's work. And someone took notice. > > "It was never personal with Antoine; I just didn't like the way he played,'' Ainge says. "I liked his game more in Dallas and Atlanta-spending more time in the box, offensive rebounding." > > Ainge also liked Toine's new body, which had been made over by Michael Jordan's trainer, Tim Grover, and a personal chef. Toine still ate all the chicken he wanted, but now it was without the hot sauce, and by this season's All-Star break he was down to 240 pounds. Meanwhile, the C's were below .500, the Sixers had just acquired Chris Webber, and the team needed a veteran to rein in its hotheaded scorers, Pierce and Davis. Ainge dialed the Hawks GM, Billy Knight. > > Knight loved Toine's leadership, loved how he wore custom-made suits and led the team's tsunami-relief fund-raising. But he didn't want to pay Toine the max. Knight was hoarding draft picks, and Ainge was holding five No. 1's over the next three years. Danny was aware by now that Toine had always been the lightning rod of the Celtic locker room. Through Pierce and other team insiders, he learned that Toine was open to coming back. Ainge suspected Walker would thrive in Doc Rivers' spread offense, and when he asked Rivers about a possible trade for Walker, Doc told him, "We'll start him on the elbows or the post. He won't shoot threes unless he's wide open. We'll reverse the way he used to play." > > So Ainge pulled a mulligan, reacquiring the now 28-year-old forward for Gary Payton, Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart and a conditional No. 1 pick. "Put it on me," he says. "I feel like I made some mistakes evaluating the whole element of what Antoine brought." > > If that's not an apology, it's awfully damn close. > > BUT DIANE Walker wanted more. She was the one who took the forlorn calls from her son over those months of exile, and the one who bristled at Ainge's quotes about how Antoine felt "entitled" to do what he wanted in Boston. "It took a big man to bring my son back," she admits, but she also says what her son will not. > > "I don't know Danny Ainge, don't know anything about the man," she says. "All I know is when he came to Boston, my son had been carrying that team on his back for six years. I'm only speaking as a mother, but don't sit there and say Antoine thought he was bigger than the team. That's a lie." > > Ainge's response: "That's how mothers are supposed to feel. I'm just trying to do what's best for the Celtics." > > Anyway, theirs is not the relationship that matters most. The day of the trade, Toine and Danny made their peace. When Ainge tried to explain the deal that started this whole mess, Walker told him to stop: "I was like, 'All right, I understand. I'm beyond that now.'" > > A much slimmer Walker showed up for his first game in Utah on Feb. 25. It didn't take long for him to identify the Celtics' problems. Ainge had done a masterful job of drafting useful young talent (Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, Delonte West), but someone had to get them to calm down. The rooks responded to Toine right away. Jefferson, who was wearing Walker's former No. 8, said he could have it back under one condition: if he took the kid under his wing. Done. > > Then there was the glum Blount, and Pierce and Davis grappling over fourth-quarter shots. Toine turned out to be the right mediator for each of them. Walker sat down Blount and Davis for one-on-one chats, and he and Pierce continue to have the heart-to-hearts they'd had for years. > > In fact, Pierce spent a portion of last summer at Toine's downtown Chicago condo, and they're chummier now than when they played together the first time. "Opposites attract," Pierce says. Walker still has some work to do on his friend: in a five-day span in March, Pierce nearly fought Bob Sura and Tim Thomas. But there is already little doubt about who's the leader of this crew. During a late timeout against the Jazz, Toine pounded his fist in the huddle and promised the group they were going to win. "Every eye was fixed on him," Rivers says. "I didn't realize he carried such a big stick." > > After Utah, the Celtics beat the Suns on the road, and then Toine returned to a home-crowd standing O against the Lakers. They won that game, then defeated the Pistons in OT, won in Houston (with Walker guarding Yao at times) and tore off 11 wins in the first 12 games after the deal, until their lack of size led to three straight defeats. Pierce, says LaFrentz, is reenergized now that he can slip on those headphones in peace. Toine is posting up almost exclusively, taking only one three-pointer every 9.9 minutes. "I've got perspective now," he says. "Atlanta will do that to you." > > On a recent road trip, Walker sits in a hotel room, chuckling at the irony of it all. He was sent away as an undisciplined egomaniac and summoned back as the sober glue. When he's a free agent this summer, he'll surely point that out to his new pal, Danny, who's hoping Walker won't ask for the max again. Toine's sounding as if he won't, but with a wan smile he says, "They still got to pay me. They ain't avoiding that." > > Asked whether The Wiggle will ever be seen again, he promises yes. "I felt like doing it in Charlotte after we won late, but I didn't," he says. "Because it was Charlotte. It's a more mature wiggle now. In the playoffs, though, I might not be able to hold back." > > His teammates have begged for it, especially the rookies, who had never seen The Wiggle in the flesh. So recently, Walker broke it out in his most sacred place: the locker room. > > When Danny wasn't watching. > > > Comments (1-2) > * MightyToine (1/24/2009 at 8:58 PM) > Report Violation > Tom, you should be banned for putting this up. You got my hopes up only 'till I started to read the article and realize it was from 3 years ago. > It is driving me nuts right now that there is no further word regarding Antoine and his first(?) brush with the law and that there are no teams(I refuse to believe that nonsense) that would sign him. > * FireDannyAingeNOW (1/24/2009 at 6:34 PM) > Report Violation > Why is this up now? 3 years later. I mean it should happen but it won't. > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 19:05:28 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:05:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? In-Reply-To: <0KEU001ES571R401@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <421083.58203.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Well Antoine wouldn't be my first, second, or fifth choice, but at a certain point I think he comes into the discussion, depending on what the waiver wire brings. As for what he'd bring, that's debateable since he hasn't played in over a year. IF he's in shape (and Danny would definitely check this out, I'm sure), I think he could do a variety of things for this team, such as allowing them a legitimate small ball lineup (which Scal can't do because he doesn't rebound), bench veteran leadership and scoring punch, outside shooting, more ballhandling on the 2nd unit, deft passing, a little more swagger, and occasional scoring bursts. If we continue to play House and TA in the backcourt on the 2nd team, I think a guy like Antoine would be the perfect solution to our ball movement problems. Last year, Posey's outside shoot and smart passes allowed us for the most part to deal with House's shortcomings at the point. This year, teams still pressure House, but they also drop off TA and give him the outside shot (which he can't hit), load the paint, and there's no ball movement. Put Antoine in that lineup, and he can act as a pressure release valve, initiating the offense at the top of the guy, running pick and pops with TA, finding Ed in the corner, sneaking passes to Powe in the post. I think it could work, if Antoine were in shape. And to me, his shape is the biggest IF in this whole equation. But as I said, I'm just throwing it out there because I think he's a decent 6th or 7th option and that just might be what are left with...and would anything be sweeter to Antoine than coming back for a 3rd time to help defend the crown? I think he'd revel in it and give us everything he had.... Ryan --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:47 PM > You know what Ryan, I'm starting to get twitchy about > how often we seem to agree these days. Dead on. > > Just please, don't post ideas like bringing Antoine > back late in the evening when it can trigger nightmares. > Great guy as a person but I don't see where he solves > much for us now. Not much left of a game that wouldn't > have fit in well here at its peak. Well maybe when he was a > rookie and had some athleticism. > Kim > > At 12:33 AM 2/10/2009, Ryan W wrote: > > The free agent class in 09 is much better than last > years and I think a couple of those free agents, especially > the older more well known ones are going to sign the MLE for > a chance at a ring. Last season, there was little supply > and high demand and people got overpaid. This offseason, > there will be high supply and less demand. It's going > to be a buyer's market, especially with the financial > crisis doing what it's doing. If Posey were a free > agent this year, he'd be lucky to get half of what he > got this past summer. > > > > The reason we passed on Posey is because of how it > hampers our ability to add free agents and pay Rondo in the > next 3 to 4 years. It was and remains a sound business > decision, even if it puts us in a worse position to win the > 'chip this season. > > > > As for the free agent market, hopefully a few good > players will get bought out before the March deadline. > Right now, there are few viable options on the market. And > depending on who is or isn't bought out, at what point > does bringing back Antoine Walker become a viable option? > If no PJ, no Joe Smith, no Marbury, no anyone else, maybe > Antoine is a decent option. I'm just saying at some > point his name has got to enter the conversation. That > should be fun. > > > > Ryan > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash > wrote: > > > > > From: Troy Hash > > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing > List'" > > > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:55 PM > > > To answer your 1st question, I think it is > obvious to most > > > now just how > > > valuable Pose is/was. It makes sense in the fact > that we > > > are playing for > > > NOW. Now being this year and next year. I > seriously > > > doubt any of the the > > > better players will take the MLE next year, if > you > > > don't believe me, see how > > > many took it this year. None. I agree with > your final > > > comment, any > > > improvement we make will probably come via > waivers cause we > > > really don't > > > have any trading chips that anyone wants right > now, neither > > > young talent or > > > expiring contracts. Troy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > > Of Ryan W > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:49 PM > > > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > > > > Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we > passed on > > > during the > > > offseason? It doesn't make sense. > > > > > > There are better players to be had in free agency > this > > > offseason and I > > > expect us to sign at least one of those players > with our > > > MLE. And whomever > > > that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), > they'll be > > > a better use of money > > > AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If > there are > > > any improvements > > > to be made, they're coming over the waiver > wire. > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Troy Hash > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Troy Hash > > > > > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's > remorse? > > > > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing > > > List'" > > > > Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:42 PM > > > > I would do this in a heart beat! Best, > reasonably > > > possible > > > > idea/deal, I > > > > have read on here. Not sure it makes sense > for NO but > > > they > > > > would shed some > > > > $$. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > > > > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > > > > Of Tom Murphy > > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:30 PM > > > > To: Celtic list > > > > Subject: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > > > > > > > > If the Hornets are looking to shave salary, > we could > > > swap > > > > them Tony Allen > > > > and Scalabrine for James Posey. The Hornets > would > > > clear two > > > > years' worth of > > > > salary obligations right off the books.... > of course > > > it was > > > > the last few > > > > years of the contract that Danny was afraid > of..... > > > and how > > > > it might cost us > > > > in terms of ability to resign our own > assets. > > > > > > > > The Cs would get a critical cog back who can > hit the > > > three > > > > ball and defend > > > > the two, three, and four positions. For all > the good > > > work > > > > Posey did on Kobe, > > > > he also did a great job harassing Odom as > well. Posey > > > would > > > > improve our > > > > rotation and our morale.... no doubt though > that Danny > > > > would have to play a > > > > hell of a poker hand to get it done, > don't think > > > Byron > > > > Scott has a soft spot > > > > for the Cs. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: > 270.10.19/1941 - > > > Release > > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: > 270.10.19/1941 - > > > Release > > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 > - Release > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1941 > - Release > > > Date: 2/9/2009 > > > 6:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 19:05:53 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Antoine Walker Article In-Reply-To: <13587.26554.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <157959.3997.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Great article, Adam. Thanks for reposting it. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Antoine Walker Article > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 6:27 AM > Hi everyone, > > > I found this article on CelticsBlog a couple of months ago > (when Antoine was charged with DUI... ). > > It is actually a great article (from 2005) that presents > Antoine's point of view pretty well after the first time > he was traded from Boston and then, subsequently, spent half > a season in Atlanta before returning to the C's. > > Alot has happened since Antoine left for the second > time?but if you read this article it may change your > viewpoint on Antoine returning to Boston for a 3rd stint... > > > > From: > http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3756860 > > On Second Thought? > Seems like a miracle, but somehow Antoine Walker is back > where he belongs > by Tom Friend > Reunited, and it feels so ? curious. > ? > Antoine Walker and the Boston Celtics are arm-in-arm > again?this time inside the threepoint arc--and no one > except Walker's mom is even asking for an apology. The > estrangement lasted 16 months, caused by The Wiggle and > other indiscretions, but the GM swallowed his pride and the > player swallowed fewer carbs, and a deadline deal was struck > that righted a terrible wrong. > ? > It is a case study in You Don't Know What You've > Got 'Til It's Gone. In one month, Walker has turned > the C's back into a postseason threat and awakened a fan > base that used to boo him. He's taken the pressure off a > moody Paul Pierce, gained the eccentric ear of Ricky Davis > and already become coach Doc Rivers' mouthpiece in the > locker room. > ? > Of course, none of this would have happened if Walker > hadn't been able to forgive Danny Ainge, and vice versa. > Rarely has a player been so misjudged, or a GM been a big > enough man to admit it. Rarely has a player been so rude on > his way out the door or a GM turned such a deaf ear to what > he said. The Celtics got to see life without Toine, and > Toine got to see life without the Celtics, and at the 11th > hour, a humbler Ainge ate crow and a humbler Walker let it > go. > ? > This is a story of a player who is more coachable than > people thought and a GM who is more flexible than people > thought. It's about a player who stopped shimmying and a > GM who stopped stereotyping. But at its heart, it's > about a phone call from Walker to Pierce, a minute or two > after the trade, and a loud message that changed the > Celtics' season: "I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!" > ? > DANNY NEVER did like Toine's game. As an analyst for > TNT, he watched Walker play pop-a-shot from downtown and > called it cop-out basketball. He said the 6'9" > Toine should post up and rebound and utilize his deft > passing skills. It all got back to Walker. > ? > Toine thought, what does he know? Ainge wasn't at > practice or in the huddle when Jim O'Brien, then the > Celtics' coach, gave Walker the green light. Besides, > the bombs-away approach worked. In the 2001-02 season, with > Toine leading the NBA with 645 three-point attempts and > Pierce taking 520 of his own, Boston got to the Eastern > Conference finals. > ? > So screw Danny. > ? > But then, in May of 2003, Ainge was named executive > director of Celtic basketball operations-a fancy term for > GM-and Toine knew he was gone. He wanted a max deal, and > Ainge to this day says, "There are few max > players." Still, he played the political game, telling > Toine he'd always be a Celtic. Toine's mom, Diane, > says Ainge told her the same thing when he bumped into her > that summer in Walker's hometown of Chicago. > ? > Summer turned to fall, and Ainge says O'Brien and his > coaching staff were in his ear the whole time, discrediting > Walker. Toine had taken 1,830 three-pointers over the > previous three seasons-one every 5 m inutes-and Danny says > the coaches preferred not to face the unenviable task of > "taking back Antoine's freedom." So they urged > a trade. O'Brien, who now coaches the Sixers, isn't > talking, but Ainge says, "Whether they deny it or not, > that is an absolute fact, and everyone in my office will > verify it." > ? > Ainge purposely didn't strike up a relationship with > Walker as he mulled the next move. He had a lot to think > about. Walker's weight was a central issue. Toine had > battled leg injuries the previous season and had ballooned > to 267 pounds, 22 over his playing weight. He was a > fried-chicken fanatic who could down 20 drumsticks doused in > hot sauce in one sitting at Harold's Chicken Shack in > Chicago. Plus, Beantown fans had started to boo Toine for > his wild shot selection, and had grown tired of the > upper-body shimmy dance dubbed The Wiggle, especially when > he'd break it out with the team down by 10. "People > thought Antoine had gotten too comfortable here," says > a member of Boston's front office. > ? > Ainge's word for it was "entitlement." As the > season neared, he spoke with Toine and sensed that the > player felt it was his right to shoot, his right to dance, > his right to earn the max. That did it. On Oct. 20, 2003, > Walker and Tony Delk were traded to Dallas for Raef > LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills and the Mavericks' > 2004 firstround pick. Upon hearing the news, an assistant > gave Ainge a hug and said, "Thank you. Now I can coach > again." > ? > THEY'D BEEN looking for a scapegoat in all the wrong > places. > ? > Not long after the trade, Walker called Ainge a > "snake." He claimed the trade had set the C's > back three or four years, that the GM wouldn't be in his > job for long. He said Ainge had tried to set his career back > by sending him to the loaded Mavericks. Ainge, who figured > Walker would be excited to play on a 60-win team, thought, > He'd rather be the man than win? Interesting. > ? > But when Ainge set foot in the Celtics' locker room, he > saw a brooding Pierce who was uninterested in being a leader > and too moody to be the face of the franchise, often dodging > reporters by slipping on his headphones. Pierce now admits > that having to take the heat minus Toine "affected > other parts of my life." Plus, living up to the legacy > of Larry, Bill and Red was a 24/7 job. "Off the court, > I was down. I really didn't want to go nowhere." > ? > Pierce was no example for the sullen center Mark Blount or > the flaky forward Ricky Davis, known for wearing a Yankees > cap around town. The Celtics quickly became a motley crew: > they won only 36 games and O'Brien resigned by > midseason. Through it all, though, Toine kept calling > Pierce, kept calling equipment manager John Connor, kept > checking in. > ? > He'd been the glue in that locker room, but Ainge > hadn't known it. Toine was the one who shielded Pierce > from the media, taking the hard questions himself. He was > beloved by the ball boys, who would fetch him chicken wings > at a nearby tavern so he'd have a hot postgame meal and > were rewarded with hundred-dollar handshakes. He gave > ? > his sneakers away after every game, home and away, because > he was able to afford only one pair of Nikes a year when he > was a kid. He gave free basketball camps around Boston, and > because he'd been raised by a single mom, he started a > foundation for kids with one parent. After the trade, he > took out a full-page ad in The Boston Globe, thanking > whatever loyal fans remained. So when the Mavericks came to > Beantown, Toine got a standing O, and saw signs in the seats > that said, "Trade Ainge." Absence had made their > hearts grow fonder. His too. > ? > In Dallas, Don Nelson had made Walker fight for minutes for > the first time in his life. He couldn't shoot on a whim > and tiptoed around the coaches. "I think I did The > Wiggle one game, and Nelson was like, `Nah, don't do > that here,' " Walker says. "So I didn't do > it. Everybody on the team, Dirk, Steve Nash, Mike Finley, > used to kill me because I wouldn't dance, because it was > like I was scared of Nellie." > ? > He shot only 305 three-pointers-one every nine minutes-and > his average dipped to a careerlow 14 ppg. He felt > underutilized; soon he'd be feeling irrelevant. Dallas > shipped him in August to what Pierce calls the graveyard of > basketball, Atlanta. He didn't wiggle there, either. > "They don't have nothing to dance about," > Toine says. But he put in an honest night's work. And > someone took notice. > ? > "It was never personal with Antoine; I just didn't > like the way he played,'' Ainge says. "I liked > his game more in Dallas and Atlanta-spending more time in > the box, offensive rebounding." > ? > Ainge also liked Toine's new body, which had been made > over by Michael Jordan's trainer, Tim Grover, and a > personal chef. Toine still ate all the chicken he wanted, > but now it was without the hot sauce, and by this > season's All-Star break he was down to 240 pounds. > Meanwhile, the C's were below .500, the Sixers had just > acquired Chris Webber, and the team needed a veteran to rein > in its hotheaded scorers, Pierce and Davis. Ainge dialed the > Hawks GM, Billy Knight. > ? > Knight loved Toine's leadership, loved how he wore > custom-made suits and led the team's tsunami-relief > fund-raising. But he didn't want to pay Toine the max. > Knight was hoarding draft picks, and Ainge was holding five > No. 1's over the next three years. Danny was aware by > now that Toine had always been the lightning rod of the > Celtic locker room. Through Pierce and other team insiders, > he learned that Toine was open to coming back. Ainge > suspected Walker would thrive in Doc Rivers' spread > offense, and when he asked Rivers about a possible trade for > Walker, Doc told him, "We'll start him on the > elbows or the post. He won't shoot threes unless > he's wide open. We'll reverse the way he used to > play." > ? > So Ainge pulled a mulligan, reacquiring the now 28-year-old > forward for Gary Payton, Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart and > a conditional No. 1 pick. "Put it on me," he says. > "I feel like I made some mistakes evaluating the whole > element of what Antoine brought." > ? > If that's not an apology, it's awfully damn close. > ? > BUT DIANE Walker wanted more. She was the one who took the > forlorn calls from her son over those months of exile, and > the one who bristled at Ainge's quotes about how Antoine > felt "entitled" to do what he wanted in Boston. > "It took a big man to bring my son back," she > admits, but she also says what her son will not. > ? > "I don't know Danny Ainge, don't know anything > about the man," she says. "All I know is when he > came to Boston, my son had been carrying that team on his > back for six years. I'm only speaking as a mother, but > don't sit there and say Antoine thought he was bigger > than the team. That's a lie." > ? > Ainge's response: "That's how mothers are > supposed to feel. I'm just trying to do what's best > for the Celtics." > ? > Anyway, theirs is not the relationship that matters most. > The day of the trade, Toine and Danny made their peace. When > Ainge tried to explain the deal that started this whole > mess, Walker told him to stop: "I was like, 'All > right, I understand. I'm beyond that now.'" > ? > A much slimmer Walker showed up for his first game in Utah > on Feb. 25. It didn't take long for him to identify the > Celtics' problems. Ainge had done a masterful job of > drafting useful young talent (Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, > Delonte West), but someone had to get them to calm down. The > rooks responded to Toine right away. Jefferson, who was > wearing Walker's former No. 8, said he could have it > back under one condition: if he took the kid under his wing. > Done. > ? > Then there was the glum Blount, and Pierce and Davis > grappling over fourth-quarter shots. Toine turned out to be > the right mediator for each of them. Walker sat down Blount > and Davis for one-on-one chats, and he and Pierce continue > to have the heart-to-hearts they'd had for years. > ? > In fact, Pierce spent a portion of last summer at > Toine's downtown Chicago condo, and they're chummier > now than when they played together the first time. > "Opposites attract," Pierce says. Walker still has > some work to do on his friend: in a five-day span in March, > Pierce nearly fought Bob Sura and Tim Thomas. But there is > already little doubt about who's the leader of this > crew. During a late timeout against the Jazz, Toine pounded > his fist in the huddle and promised the group they were > going to win. "Every eye was fixed on him," Rivers > says. "I didn't realize he carried such a big > stick." > ? > After Utah, the Celtics beat the Suns on the road, and then > Toine returned to a home-crowd standing O against the > Lakers. They won that game, then defeated the Pistons in OT, > won in Houston (with Walker guarding Yao at times) and tore > off 11 wins in the first 12 games after the deal, until > their lack of size led to three straight defeats. Pierce, > says LaFrentz, is reenergized now that he can slip on those > headphones in peace. Toine is posting up almost exclusively, > taking only one three-pointer every 9.9 minutes. > "I've got perspective now," he says. > "Atlanta will do that to you." > ? > On a recent road trip, Walker sits in a hotel room, > chuckling at the irony of it all. He was sent away as an > undisciplined egomaniac and summoned back as the sober glue. > When he's a free agent this summer, he'll surely > point that out to his new pal, Danny, who's hoping > Walker won't ask for the max again. Toine's sounding > as if he won't, but with a wan smile he says, "They > still got to pay me. They ain't avoiding that." > > Asked whether The Wiggle will ever be seen again, he > promises yes. "I felt like doing it in Charlotte after > we won late, but I didn't," he says. "Because > it was Charlotte. It's a more mature wiggle now. In the > playoffs, though, I might not be able to hold back." > ? > His teammates have begged for it, especially the rookies, > who had never seen The Wiggle in the flesh. So recently, > Walker broke it out in his most sacred place: the locker > room. > ? > When Danny wasn't watching. > ? > ? > Comments (1-2) > * MightyToine (1/24/2009 at 8:58 PM) > Report Violation > Tom, you should be banned for putting this up. You got my > hopes up only 'till I started to read the article and > realize it was from 3 years ago. > It is driving me nuts right now that there is no further > word regarding Antoine and his first(?) brush with the law > and that there are no teams(I refuse to believe that > nonsense) that would sign him. > * FireDannyAingeNOW (1/24/2009 at 6:34 PM) > Report Violation > Why is this up now? 3 years later. I mean it should happen > but it won't. > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From stevebknight at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 19:28:26 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:28:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: waiver deals References: Message-ID: <161399.71880.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i think you're right, ryan. unless something knocks danny's socks off, i think he'll be content to add a piece or two via the waiver wire. it doesn't have to be much. a tyronne lue pg talent and a brian skinner pf/c talent is about all we need. nice to see leon playing a little better. would like to see pruitt back in the mix to see if his effect on house was a fluke or not. i'd like to see how a pruitt/house/tony combo fares. Message: 6 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:48:37 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan W Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <966767.71812.qm at web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on during the offseason? It doesn't make sense. There are better players to be had in free agency this offseason and I expect us to sign at least one of those players with our MLE. And whomever that is (Rasheed Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be a better use of money AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If there are any improvements to be made, they're coming over the waiver wire. Ryan From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 20:29:10 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:29:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: waiver deals In-Reply-To: <161399.71880.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <947031.42139.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> TA apparently injured his thumb today or yesterday (the reports are pretty vague at this point) and won't be going on the road for the last 2 games before the All-Star break, so we'll get a chance to see Pruitt back in action. I hope he hits a few shots. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/10/09, steve knight wrote: > From: steve knight > Subject: Re: waiver deals > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 1:28 PM > i think you're right, ryan. unless something knocks > danny's socks off, i think he'll be content to add a > piece or two via the waiver wire. it doesn't have to be > much. a tyronne lue pg talent and a brian skinner pf/c > talent is about all we need. > > nice to see leon playing a little better. would like to see > pruitt back in the mix to see if his effect on house was a > fluke or not. i'd like to see how a pruitt/house/tony > combo fares. > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:48:37 -0800 (PST) > From: Ryan W > Subject: RE: Hornets having buyer's remorse? > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Message-ID: > <966767.71812.qm at web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yeah, but why would we trade for a contract we passed on > during the offseason? It doesn't make sense. > > There are better players to be had in free agency this > offseason and I expect us to sign at least one of those > players with our MLE. And whomever that is (Rasheed > Wallace, Iverson, etc...), they'll be a better use of > money AND better than Pose. So sit tight everyone. If > there are any improvements to be made, they're coming > over the waiver wire. > > Ryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 20:41:36 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Danny Zombie Says The Current Celtics Are Fine, Don't Expect A Trade Message-ID: <338372.81437.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The Zombie Director of Basketball Operations went on to say, there's no proof that A-Rod ever did steroids, expect unemployment to be down to 1 percent by year's end, and brains, brains, I need brains. Well, if the Celtics can't execute a deal by the deadline, it's because Zombie No. 44 put together such a piss-poor collection of backup talent, no one else in the NBA sees much trade value in them. Ray From stevebknight at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 20:50:10 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:50:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/giddens References: Message-ID: <870612.69076.qm@web37405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ------------------------------ bummer for tony. i have no illusions about pruitt--his ballhanding is very suspect, for one thing--but he's an improvement over house and is solid and growing as a defender. i'm dreaming to think he'll play a significant role in the playoffs, but youneverknow. with doc, you don't play until you show something. and you can't show something until you play. ask ryan gomes. injuries, however brief, sometimes open the door to more playing time. it's just how it is. btw, any particular reason giddens went back down and now walker? is he behind walker in terms of growth, or is he just not needed right now as an off-guard option, whereas walker's size may be needed in a pinch from time to time? one more question about giddens--is he projected as a pg, shooting guard or combo guard? Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:29:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan W Subject: Re: waiver deals To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <947031.42139.qm at web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii TA apparently injured his thumb today or yesterday (the reports are pretty vague at this point) and won't be going on the road for the last 2 games before the All-Star break, so we'll get a chance to see Pruitt back in action. I hope he hits a few shots. Ryan From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 21:00:35 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:00:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/giddens In-Reply-To: <870612.69076.qm@web37405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4269.47098.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Simple enough, Walker's more pro-ready and Doc trusts him more right now. Giddens projects as a 2/3, Walker as a 3/4 based on the way the play. Giddens is a great rebounder for his position, but scores off penetration and kickouts for jumpers. Walker scores more on the box or high posts, kinda like Paul Pierce. He has a 3 point shot he's working on, but from reports he still needs to work on his stand still jumper. Both guys like to get to the rim, but Walker has the better body control at this point. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/10/09, steve knight wrote: > From: steve knight > Subject: Re: pruitt/giddens > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 2:50 PM > ------------------------------ > bummer for tony. i have no illusions about pruitt--his > ballhanding is very suspect, for one thing--but he's an > improvement over house and is solid and growing as a > defender. i'm dreaming to think he'll play a > significant role in the playoffs, but youneverknow. with > doc, you don't play until you show something. and you > can't show something until you play. ask ryan gomes. > injuries, however brief, sometimes open the door to more > playing time. it's just how it is. > > btw, any particular reason giddens went back down and now > walker? is he behind walker in terms of growth, or is he > just not needed right now as an off-guard option, whereas > walker's size may be needed in a pinch from time to > time? > > one more question about giddens--is he projected as a pg, > shooting guard or combo guard? > > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:29:10 -0800 (PST) > From: Ryan W > Subject: Re: waiver deals > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Message-ID: > <947031.42139.qm at web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > TA apparently injured his thumb today or yesterday (the > reports are pretty vague at this point) and won't be > going on the road for the last 2 games before the All-Star > break, so we'll get a chance to see Pruitt back in > action. I hope he hits a few shots. > > Ryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 21:04:53 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:04:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Danny Zombie Says The Current Celtics Are Fine, Don't Expect A Trade In-Reply-To: <338372.81437.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <483628.86541.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It's not a question of value, Ray, it's a question of salary. We have a huge collection of good talent, low salary guys, and we'd need to swing 4 or 5 for 1 deals to get players who could help us, since most if not all of those players make in the 7-10 million dollar range. BillfromBoston on Celticsblog said he expects several high priced veterans to be bought out after the trade deadline if salary dump trades can't be orchestrated, both as a product of the economy and a product of several teams having no shot at the playoffs. He was talking about guys like Camby or Brad Miller. Waiting for a high profile player to get bought out and then sign for cheap has always been Danny's #1 plan for adding talent during the season and I expect that's what we'll see. It's just going to come down to who gets bought out and whether we can secure their services. Danny's wise to hold off trading right now, since it'll be a lateral move at best. Ryan --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: > From: Way Of The Ray > Subject: Danny Zombie Says The Current Celtics Are Fine, Don't Expect A Trade > To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" > Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 2:41 PM > The Zombie Director of Basketball Operations went on to say, > there's no proof that A-Rod ever did steroids, expect > unemployment to be down to 1 percent by year's end, and > brains, brains, I need brains. > > Well, if the Celtics can't execute a deal by the > deadline, it's because Zombie No. 44 put together such a > piss-poor collection of backup talent, no one else in the > NBA sees much trade value in them. > > Ray > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 06:22:01 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:22:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/walker Message-ID: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a 4. The guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup PF and center are both listed at 6'8. Where have you gone, Muggsy Bogues? From noah.evans at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 06:33:58 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:33:58 +0900 Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902102233p6b2e8278yee8bee83fcc87125@mail.gmail.com> Toine's listed at 6'9" and is really about 6'7" 3/4. Which is about right for a smallish PF(Antoine Jamison and Boozer are both around the same height). Toine's problem is that he's too worn out. He was never much of a leaper to begin with and now he's almost completely earthbound. We don't need him with Baby around. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Peter Delevett wrote: > > I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a 4. The guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup PF and center are both listed at 6'8. Where have you gone, Muggsy Bogues? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From noah.evans at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 06:39:39 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:39:39 +0900 Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <56a297000902102233p6b2e8278yee8bee83fcc87125@mail.gmail.com> References: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56a297000902102233p6b2e8278yee8bee83fcc87125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902102239q237b521dmda36e3d83a8ceadc@mail.gmail.com> Whoops, Antoine is 6'8 3/4" according to http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=1996&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort= On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > Toine's listed at 6'9" and is really about 6'7" 3/4. Which is about > right for a smallish PF(Antoine Jamison and Boozer are both around the > same height). > > Toine's problem is that he's too worn out. He was never much of a > leaper to begin with and now he's almost completely earthbound. We > don't need him with Baby around. > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Peter Delevett wrote: >> >> I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a 4. The guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup PF and center are both listed at 6'8. Where have you gone, Muggsy Bogues? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 13:48:27 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:48:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF Message-ID: <624342.4540.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker for 6 or 8 minutes in between the folds of the quarters and wherever we can to get his energy on both ends plus his scoring.? The problem with our bench is less personnel than it is duplication of effort.? We have House and Tony on the court and they're both tweeners as Tony is doing too much PG and neither is a real PG.? We have Powe and Davis out there and neither is a go-to guy down low.? Walker is a bona fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy.? Why not go small with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever else.? That's energy all over plus adequate rebounding.? Not that it will happen, since Doc now has a ring and his "prove it at practice" approach reigns.? OK.? I'll return to watching some college ball and finding us someone to draft at #60.? Cheers, Gene From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Feb 11 14:37:50 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:37:50 -0800 Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF In-Reply-To: <624342.4540.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <624342.4540.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15F154D0-CC22-4F1C-BAD6-5E39BA39CA21@verizon.net> Tony & walker bring the same game, redundant, move one for sean Williams, villanueva type big man or in a package for posey We need interior & perimeter help Odom & gasol create issues On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:48 AM, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker for 6 or 8 > minutes in between the folds of the quarters and wherever we can to > get his energy on both ends plus his scoring. The problem with our > bench is less personnel than it is duplication of effort. We have > House and Tony on the court and they're both tweeners as Tony is > doing too much PG and neither is a real PG. We have Powe and Davis > out there and neither is a go-to guy down low. Walker is a bona > fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy. Why not go small > with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever else. That's energy > all over plus adequate rebounding. Not that it will happen, since > Doc now has a ring and his "prove it at practice" approach reigns. > OK. I'll return to watching some college ball and finding us > someone to draft at #60. Cheers, Gene > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Feb 11 14:40:17 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:40:17 -0800 Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <56a297000902102239q237b521dmda36e3d83a8ceadc@mail.gmail.com> References: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56a297000902102233p6b2e8278yee8bee83fcc87125@mail.gmail.com> <56a297000902102239q237b521dmda36e3d83a8ceadc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92321A34-ED40-4FBD-8873-AAA39A99F7D3@verizon.net> Antoine brings much more perimeter game than baby. I like adding horry On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > Whoops, Antoine is 6'8 3/4" according to > http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=1996&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort= > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Noah Evans > wrote: >> Toine's listed at 6'9" and is really about 6'7" 3/4. Which is about >> right for a smallish PF(Antoine Jamison and Boozer are both around >> the >> same height). >> >> Toine's problem is that he's too worn out. He was never much of a >> leaper to begin with and now he's almost completely earthbound. We >> don't need him with Baby around. >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Peter Delevett >> wrote: >>> >>> I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a 4. The >>> guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup PF and center are both >>> listed at 6'8. Where have you gone, Muggsy Bogues? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>> celtics at igtc.com >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jaims at pldtdsl.net Wed Feb 11 16:44:27 2009 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:44:27 +0800 Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF In-Reply-To: <15F154D0-CC22-4F1C-BAD6-5E39BA39CA21@verizon.net> References: <624342.4540.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <15F154D0-CC22-4F1C-BAD6-5E39BA39CA21@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003301c98c68$00aaa2c0$01ffe840$@net> why even think about sean williams, he's garbage. his past efforts at boston college is garbage already. he couldn't even submit a good performance in the nbdl. his nbdl coaches hate his game and attitude. just close the door on him. no thanks. villanueva, tyrus thomas are better prospects, imo. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:38 PM To: gk_tyler at yahoo.com; The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Walker, 6' 6", SF Tony & walker bring the same game, redundant, move one for sean Williams, villanueva type big man or in a package for posey We need interior & perimeter help Odom & gasol create issues On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:48 AM, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker for 6 or 8 > minutes in between the folds of the quarters and wherever we can to > get his energy on both ends plus his scoring. The problem with our > bench is less personnel than it is duplication of effort. We have > House and Tony on the court and they're both tweeners as Tony is > doing too much PG and neither is a real PG. We have Powe and Davis > out there and neither is a go-to guy down low. Walker is a bona > fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy. Why not go small > with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever else. That's energy > all over plus adequate rebounding. Not that it will happen, since > Doc now has a ring and his "prove it at practice" approach reigns. > OK. I'll return to watching some college ball and finding us > someone to draft at #60. Cheers, Gene > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 17:15:26 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <56a297000902102233p6b2e8278yee8bee83fcc87125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <966165.99252.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Actually, I meant Bill Walker. --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Noah Evans wrote: > Toine's listed at 6'9" and is really about > 6'7" 3/4. Which is about > right for a smallish PF(Antoine Jamison and Boozer are both > around the > same height). > > Toine's problem is that he's too worn out. He was > never much of a > leaper to begin with and now he's almost completely > earthbound. We > don't need him with Baby around. > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Peter Delevett > wrote: > > > > I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a > 4. The guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup > PF and center are both listed at 6'8. Where have you > gone, Muggsy Bogues? From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 17:16:08 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:16:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF In-Reply-To: <624342.4540.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <960747.2388.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Good thoughts, Gene. If TA is out for an extended period of time (one report has him with torn ligaments in his thumb), I think it would be prudent to start giving Walker 5-10 minutes a game over the next month. In addition to his energy, I also like the toughness he provides on the court. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/11/09, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > From: gene kirkpatrick > Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF > To: "celtics" > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 7:48 AM > I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker > for 6 or 8 minutes in between the folds of the quarters and > wherever we can to get his energy on both ends plus his > scoring.? The problem with our bench is less personnel than > it is duplication of effort.? We have House and Tony on the > court and they're both tweeners as Tony is doing too > much PG and neither is a real PG.? We have Powe and Davis > out there and neither is a go-to guy down low.? Walker is a > bona fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy.? Why > not go small with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever > else.? That's energy all over plus adequate > rebounding.? Not that it will happen, since Doc now has a > ring and his "prove it at practice" approach > reigns.? OK.? I'll return to watching some college > ball and finding us someone to draft at #60.? Cheers, Gene > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 17:20:05 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:20:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <277013.11945.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <770431.73792.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Meh, he's a 3/4 in the same way Posey was a 3/4. He gives you the ability to play some small ball from time to time, but you wouldn't want him at PF for any extended period of time, just like you really didn't want Posey at PF for any extended period of time. But his inside game, overall toughness, length and decent rebounding ability mean he can play a little 4 from time to time, just like Paul Pierce could if Doc ever open his mind wide enough to notice (as an aside, I think Doc has really missed a golden opportunity this season to play a small ball lineup of Rondo/TA/Ray/Paul/KG). Ryan --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Peter Delevett wrote: > From: Peter Delevett > Subject: pruitt/walker > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 12:22 AM > I always gag a little when I see Walker described as a 4. > The guy's listed at 6'6. Then again, our backup PF > and center are both listed at 6'8. Where have you gone, > Muggsy Bogues? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Feb 11 18:30:16 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:30:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF Message-ID: <587204.23832.qm@web63802.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Tyrus Thomas is looking ALOT better these days, his FG% has "increased" to 43% :) Thomas and Villanueva would be great to have, but they are being mentioned as cornerstones for the future on their respective teams. Phoenix is even mulling over trading Amare Stoudamire for Tyrus Thomas (among others)... It would have been good if we had found a way to keep Darius Miles, as he's playing pretty good ball in Memphis off the bench (5ppg, 2rpg, 11mpg, 15 games played). Some of the other guys that were mentioned, Brad Miller and Marcus Camby, have contracts for next season and it is very unlikely they will be bought out this season. The players that could help the C's this season are few and far between. Joe Smith is the best bet. Adam --- Jaims wrote: why even think about sean williams, he's garbage. his past efforts at boston college is garbage already. he couldn't even submit a good performance in the nbdl. his nbdl coaches hate his game and attitude. just close the door on him. no thanks. villanueva, tyrus thomas are better prospects, imo. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:38 PM To: gk_tyler at yahoo.com; The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: Walker, 6' 6", SF Tony & walker bring the same game, redundant, move one for sean Williams, villanueva type big man or in a package for posey We need interior & perimeter help Odom & gasol create issues On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:48 AM, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker for 6 or 8 > minutes in between the folds of the quarters and wherever we can to > get his energy on both ends plus his scoring. The problem with our > bench is less personnel than it is duplication of effort. We have > House and Tony on the court and they're both tweeners as Tony is > doing too much PG and neither is a real PG. We have Powe and Davis > out there and neither is a go-to guy down low. Walker is a bona > fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy. Why not go small > with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever else. That's energy > all over plus adequate rebounding. Not that it will happen, since > Doc now has a ring and his "prove it at practice" approach reigns. > OK. I'll return to watching some college ball and finding us > someone to draft at #60. Cheers, Gene > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 19:12:36 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:12:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF In-Reply-To: <960747.2388.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <544415.35343.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> If this is the case (about TA) then do the C's give Giddens some small mins as he is supposed to be able to play or at least has potential to play some decent D plus he has some range on his shot. ? I also think all we need is a decent long, athletic role player that can play decent perimeter D and hit an occasional mid to long jumper, I am thinking there are planty of such players languishing on other team's benches because that is all they are?able to provide.?The key it would have to be someone Doc would trust to play because when you are at the end of his?bench you never have a chance to devloping a role on the floor. ? Does Minnie or Suns?have such a player as Danny seems to have good relations with those teams to swing a minor deal. Again I do not think this has to be a blockbuster type of tweak. ? Go C's ? ? Wed, 2/11/09, Ryan W wrote: From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Walker, 6' 6", SF To: "celtics" Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 12:16 PM Good thoughts, Gene. If TA is out for an extended period of time (one report has him with torn ligaments in his thumb), I think it would be prudent to start giving Walker 5-10 minutes a game over the next month. In addition to his energy, I also like the toughness he provides on the court. Ryan --- On Wed, 2/11/09, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > From: gene kirkpatrick > Subject: Walker, 6' 6", SF > To: "celtics" > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 7:48 AM > I'm sure I'm wrong, but I would be injecting Walker > for 6 or 8 minutes in between the folds of the quarters and > wherever we can to get his energy on both ends plus his > scoring.? The problem with our bench is less personnel than > it is duplication of effort.? We have House and Tony on the > court and they're both tweeners as Tony is doing too > much PG and neither is a real PG.? We have Powe and Davis > out there and neither is a go-to guy down low.? Walker is a > bona fide slasher who amps up the offensive energy.? Why > not go small with Davis and Walker plus Tony and whomever > else.? That's energy all over plus adequate > rebounding.? Not that it will happen, since Doc now has a > ring and his "prove it at practice" approach > reigns.? OK.? I'll return to watching some college > ball and finding us someone to draft at #60.? Cheers, Gene > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Thu Feb 12 03:21:04 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:21:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Horry on the radar? Message-ID: <703476.50247.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The important league-wide development is that Horry rates the Spurs and Celtics as his most likely landing spots. Both understandable. San Antonio is a contender and familiar from the past five seasons there and close to Houston, an important consideration to stay near his family. Boston is the defending champion and has kept him on the radar all along as a potential stretch-drive signing. ? Boston, obviously, is not close to Houston. And even Horry jokes about a potential reunion with Celtics GM Danny Ainge and how it will take a nanosecond before someone posts the clip of Horry throwing a towel in the face of coach Danny Ainge when they were with the Suns. But the Celtics have the strong lure of a shot at another ring and the stronger lure of point guard Sam Cassell, a close friend from their Rockets days. "The only person that can really talk me into Boston is Sam," Horry said. The slightly important, mostly hilarious development for the Kings is that not only would Horry welcome any such deal, he would love it and do his best to make it real. ? http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/019510.html?mi_rss=Kings%20Blog%20and%20Q&A From joefan11111 at aol.com Thu Feb 12 13:43:56 2009 From: joefan11111 at aol.com (joefan11111 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:43:56 -0500 Subject: Perk's dubious distinction Message-ID: <8CB5B2F1631658C-868-1EDF@webmail-de04.sysops.aol.com> Monday, February 9, 2009 Poll has Perkins laughing Friendly center is trying to regain his scoring touch CELTICS NOTES By Bill Doyle TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF wdoyle at telegram.com BOSTON ?? Does Kendrick Perkins have an overly inflated opinion of himself? Yes, according to a poll of 190 NBA players in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated. Perkins and Washington?s DeShawn Stevenson topped the poll by each collecting 8 percent of the vote. Minnesota?s Rashad McCants, Denver?s Dahntay Jones and Milwaukee?s Damon Jones each received 5 percent. ?I just started laughing,? Perkins said. ?It doesn?t bother me.? In the locker room, Perkins is a soft-spoken, friendly guy. On the court, he transforms into a physical, aggressive player who ranks among the league leaders in technical fouls. Perkins knows why opponents voted for him. ?It?s just hate,? he said. ?I know a lot of guys in the league who don?t like me just because of who I am, what I bring to the table. I?m not a friendly guy with the other teams and other players. I know that?s what it is.? Perkins admits he?s a far different person ?with teammates and guys I know, but other than that, I don?t fool with too many other people.? It?s not like Perkins won the poll with an overwhelming amount of votes. Eight percent of 190 players figures out to only 15 votes. Perkins in sists his left shoulder no longer bothers him, but he?s still trying to regain his touch since he sat out five games with a strained left shoulder. Yesterday, he took a step in the right direction by contributing 10 points and seven rebounds in 34 minutes. ?I?m just trying to get back to where I was before I got hurt,? Perkins said. ?I?m just trying to get back into the groove still. I think my rebounding has stood up. I?m just trying to get my timing back a little bit more.? Celtics Doc Rivers said Perkins has been: ?Up and down, but it takes time. He probably lost some rhythm.? Tony Allen had 11 points off the bench as he continues to try to recover from a sprained ankle that sidelined him for 11 games.. ?I?ve got to get my wind back in order,? he said. ?We haven?t been having any practices. It will come. I?m just trying to fight back.? ?Tony?s (situation) is tougher,? Rivers said, ?because Perk was allowed to run and do things where Tony literally couldn?t be on his feet. That?s tough to come back from and be thrown right back in and play.? From bosox18 at charter.net Thu Feb 12 14:21:37 2009 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:21:37 -0500 Subject: Horry on the radar? In-Reply-To: <703476.50247.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <703476.50247.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ugh. Robert Horry has less left than Antoine Walker. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:21 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Horry on the radar? The important league-wide development is that Horry rates the Spurs and Celtics as his most likely landing spots. Both understandable. San Antonio is a contender and familiar from the past five seasons there and close to Houston, an important consideration to stay near his family. Boston is the defending champion and has kept him on the radar all along as a potential stretch-drive signing. ? Boston, obviously, is not close to Houston. And even Horry jokes about a potential reunion with Celtics GM Danny Ainge and how it will take a nanosecond before someone posts the clip of Horry throwing a towel in the face of coach Danny Ainge when they were with the Suns. But the Celtics have the strong lure of a shot at another ring and the stronger lure of point guard Sam Cassell, a close friend from their Rockets days. "The only person that can really talk me into Boston is Sam," Horry said. The slightly important, mostly hilarious development for the Kings is that not only would Horry welcome any such deal, he would love it and do his best to make it real. ? http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/019510.html?mi_rs s=Kings%20Blog%20and%20Q&A _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 16:52:50 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:52:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: on the road, again Message-ID: <590614.7658.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wasn't sure my son would come through with tickets again, but I'm about to leave for big D (as the natives call it) and a night with the champions.? I'm hoping that my presence at last year's game was the key to our ultimate victory over all the pretenders; if so, rest easy.? Tomorrow?I'll report on the hoopla and crass materialism that is Dallas and all their main events.? Cheers, Gene From stevebknight at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 22:37:33 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:37:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/walker References: Message-ID: <99124.15405.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i hope those people harping on why pruitt and walker don't get more playing time watched the hornets game. they don't play because they're not ready to play. now, you can argue they'll never get there without playing more, but you can't argue that they're a better solution than what we're putting out on the floor right now, because they're not. still, i'm encouraged that they'll get there eventually. From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 23:54:50 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:54:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: pruitt/walker In-Reply-To: <99124.15405.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <906831.57614.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It's not entirely fair to judge them on one game's worth of PT. Walker, for instance, obviously is better than he showed (and he looked completely out of his element in the 2 minutes he was out there) and hadn't played competitively since early January (and that was against D-Leaguers). It's hard to stay sharp when you don't play, especially for younger players. Gabe had much more time to play due to TA's injury and Ray's in-game injury (Ray sat the 2nd half). He was decent, which is about what he was in January. It seemed like he was following the hypocratic oath out there--do no harm. And for a young player just getting back into the lineup and one who has yet to prove himself, that takes a lot. Most players in his spot try to do too much, so it's commendable that he played within himself. That said, he NEEDS to try to do a little more, taking the jumper when it presents itself and penetrating/creating when the situation calls for it. But for one game, he did alright. More importantly, he moved Eddie to 2 guard and the entire 2nd unit was better because of it (and because they later played with Rondo). Pruitt's worth right now is that he puts Eddie (and the entire 2nd team by extension) in a much better situation to succeed. I will agree with you on this much: this game showed why Pruitt/Walker/Giddens aren't going to play ahead of TA this season--for all the bad things TA does out there (mostly turnovers, or gambling for steals), he's miles ahead of those 3 youngsters when it comes to knowledge of NBA offense/defense and when it comes to making contributions at the NBA level. Miles ahead. Now, if TA ever got the chance to play with an actual point guard, his maddening consistency might straighten itself out. Unfortunately, he keeps getting injured :( Ryan --- On Thu, 2/12/09, steve knight wrote: > From: steve knight > Subject: Re: pruitt/walker > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 4:37 PM > i hope those people harping on why pruitt and walker > don't get more playing time watched the hornets game. > they don't play because they're not ready to play. > now, you can argue they'll never get there without > playing more, but you can't argue that they're a > better solution than what we're putting out on the floor > right now, because they're not. still, i'm > encouraged that they'll get there eventually. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 13 09:12:39 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 01:12:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: GREAT win! Message-ID: <547724.48867.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> With the C's recent 2 losses and playing back-to-back games on the road, I honestly thought we would drop this game last night. The Mavs were also pumped after getting destroyed in Boston a couple of weeks ago, Nowitzki looked like he was on a mission. With the win, we now enter the All-Star break with the best record in the league. Wherever we finish at the end of the regular season, I am convinced that we are DEFINITELY championship contenders, as there were doubts throughout the first half of the season. The guys will now have 6 days of much needed rest and we'll hopefully enter the game in Utah next Thursday at full-strength. Bring on Banner #18! Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 14:38:46 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:38:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: what a game!! Message-ID: <487035.76484.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wish I could adequately convey what an incredible experience last night's game was.? I was there a few years back when we lost but big Al and Pierce put on a show.? I was there last year, and the game was much like last nights--except I wasn't sure we would come all the way back this time.? All through Rondo was amazing.? The kid has such a marvelous composure--in year's to come basketball people will be mentioning him and Chris Paul in the same breath, with the added note that Rondo wins championships.? ? The first half was interesting.? Dallas shot well but we kept coming within range.? They pulled out to an unconvincing 11 point lead at the half with a variety of contributors.? I've liked their bench shooter--the blond kid--and he made some fine shots.? Berea and Bass also showed some offense.? I counted four misses by KG before he made one.? But as we struggled, we never seemed to show any letdown.? Their defense was good, but it was achieved by holding and shoving.? We seemed to eschew the outside shot for attempts to drive, and that wasn't working well. ? The second half was one great experience.? We were up a ways, but seated behind the Celts' bench.? The coaches were really into it, especially coach Ray.? We surged for the first few minutes only to see them come back and hold a larger lead--it ballooned to 15 at the six minute mark.? My son suggested we put our bench in early, but a few minutes later we had it to eight, proving that the old guys are our most reliable.? They met our energy but we never let up.? It was a titanic battle. ? The fourth was pure, unadulterated Pierce.? It seemed that he was pacing himself throughout the game, knowing his time would come.? And what a show!? He did miss one foul shot, but the others were pure zip.? Dallas mikes the net, so you get a loud "thwack" when the net swishes.? Over and over again, Rondo made that looping pass to Paul at the top of the key.? Though pushed and held, he showed about ten different moves from driving to shooting over the defender, but mostly easing into the lane and hitting the short jumper.? On fire.? At the defensive end Powe was not only grabbing and hugging the rebounds, he was showing great quickness in keeping Dirk from getting his position.? That and a crucial jumper by Rondo and several buckets by Ray helped close them out.? ? Notes:? Bill Walker is going to be special.? I like his attitude, and I was impressed with his dunks in warmups; at least, they showed his knees must be ok.? O'Bryant really can shoot and his demeanor is impressive.? If only he can evolve into a tough guy.? Cassell dressed and moved well; we were hoping he would get in, since my son went to FSU.? I didn't see enough to warrant the techs that Dirk and KG got, but with the overly pushy Mavs and KG getting a little hot, it was probably warranted.? It did become clear that, with Dirk having such a good night and Terry hurt, that the fourth quarter would test whether anyone else would make a shot for them.? ? Well, my head hurts.? I shouted a little, got 4 hours sleep and drove 2+ hours back to Tyler for work this a.m.? What a game!? With all the hoopla before and during that appeals to the low-level fans, it was still a first rate NBA experience.? Cheers, Gene ? ? From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Feb 13 14:43:54 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:43:54 -0800 Subject: GREAT win! In-Reply-To: <547724.48867.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <547724.48867.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That was a great comeback, fueled by doc' a ejection. Kg and rondo need to play smarter though. Rondo too often gets hung up under the basket tosses the ball in hope it gets to someone, and it seems to about 50 percent of the timebor less, Of has been taken out because of stupid fouls Leon did a good job defensively on dirk, and ray and Paul came alive in the 4 th I was thinking, if we can add another tall perimeter player I would run pierce at the point backing up rajon. He gets to the hoop better than anyone, big scoring guards like Deron Williams give the lakers problems We still need an athletic big man to hang with guys like gasol and odom On Feb 13, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Adam Patterson wrote: > With the C's recent 2 losses and playing back-to-back games on the > road, I honestly thought we would drop this game last night. The > Mavs were also pumped after getting destroyed in Boston a couple of > weeks ago, Nowitzki looked like he was on a mission. > > With the win, we now enter the All-Star break with the best record > in the league. Wherever we finish at the end of the regular season, > I am convinced that we are DEFINITELY championship contenders, as > there were doubts throughout the first half of the season. > > The guys will now have 6 days of much needed rest and we'll > hopefully enter the game in Utah next Thursday at full-strength. > > Bring on Banner #18! > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver > Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Fri Feb 13 15:08:59 2009 From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:08:59 -0500 Subject: GREAT win! In-Reply-To: References: <547724.48867.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200902131509.n1DF93dZ009291@poseidon.afrc.af.mil> Is anyone else a little fearful that our pendulum has swung a bit back toward too much isolation offense? Don't get me wrong - Pierce is a stud, but it is the pick & roll, pick & pop that ate the Lakers alive last year and for some reason The Cs seem to be getting away from it to the tune of more Pierce getting the ball at the top of the key and creating. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:44 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: GREAT win! That was a great comeback, fueled by doc' a ejection. Kg and rondo need to play smarter though. Rondo too often gets hung up under the basket tosses the ball in hope it gets to someone, and it seems to about 50 percent of the timebor less, Of has been taken out because of stupid fouls Leon did a good job defensively on dirk, and ray and Paul came alive in the 4 th I was thinking, if we can add another tall perimeter player I would run pierce at the point backing up rajon. He gets to the hoop better than anyone, big scoring guards like Deron Williams give the lakers problems We still need an athletic big man to hang with guys like gasol and odom On Feb 13, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Adam Patterson wrote: > With the C's recent 2 losses and playing back-to-back games on the > road, I honestly thought we would drop this game last night. The > Mavs were also pumped after getting destroyed in Boston a couple of > weeks ago, Nowitzki looked like he was on a mission. > > With the win, we now enter the All-Star break with the best record > in the league. Wherever we finish at the end of the regular season, > I am convinced that we are DEFINITELY championship contenders, as > there were doubts throughout the first half of the season. > > The guys will now have 6 days of much needed rest and we'll > hopefully enter the game in Utah next Thursday at full-strength. > > Bring on Banner #18! > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver > Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jaims at pldtdsl.net Fri Feb 13 18:47:06 2009 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 02:47:06 +0800 Subject: GREAT win! In-Reply-To: <200902131509.n1DF93dZ009291@poseidon.afrc.af.mil> References: <547724.48867.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <200902131509.n1DF93dZ009291@poseidon.afrc.af.mil> Message-ID: <000901c98e0b$78451eb0$68cf5c10$@net> correct. it was obvious last night, but, imo, they tend to do iso plays for pierce when the situation called for it (mostly on grind-it-out games-which we have a lot this year compared to last year's juggernaut wins), they called it more specifically when we need to at least attack a defender and fish for fouls to get to the line when our usual shots don't fall. and also, i think they knew pierce was in the zone so they steered clear and let him eat dallas' defense for lunch. :D i notice whenever we win via big margins, our plays were very fluid and smooth with the pick/roll or pops... when we struggle and shots don't fall, this calls for foul-baiting and free throw shooting galore... just my observation and opinion tho. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:09 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: RE: GREAT win! Is anyone else a little fearful that our pendulum has swung a bit back toward too much isolation offense? Don't get me wrong - Pierce is a stud, but it is the pick & roll, pick & pop that ate the Lakers alive last year and for some reason The Cs seem to be getting away from it to the tune of more Pierce getting the ball at the top of the key and creating. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:44 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: GREAT win! That was a great comeback, fueled by doc' a ejection. Kg and rondo need to play smarter though. Rondo too often gets hung up under the basket tosses the ball in hope it gets to someone, and it seems to about 50 percent of the timebor less, Of has been taken out because of stupid fouls Leon did a good job defensively on dirk, and ray and Paul came alive in the 4 th I was thinking, if we can add another tall perimeter player I would run pierce at the point backing up rajon. He gets to the hoop better than anyone, big scoring guards like Deron Williams give the lakers problems We still need an athletic big man to hang with guys like gasol and odom On Feb 13, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Adam Patterson wrote: > With the C's recent 2 losses and playing back-to-back games on the > road, I honestly thought we would drop this game last night. The > Mavs were also pumped after getting destroyed in Boston a couple of > weeks ago, Nowitzki looked like he was on a mission. > > With the win, we now enter the All-Star break with the best record > in the league. Wherever we finish at the end of the regular season, > I am convinced that we are DEFINITELY championship contenders, as > there were doubts throughout the first half of the season. > > The guys will now have 6 days of much needed rest and we'll > hopefully enter the game in Utah next Thursday at full-strength. > > Bring on Banner #18! > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver > Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From hartleyo at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 13 19:15:05 2009 From: hartleyo at bellsouth.net (hartleyo at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:15:05 -0500 Subject: Miami / Toronto trade Message-ID: Just reported on Miami Radio - Marion and old friend Banks traded for Jermaine O'neal and some guy name Moon. HMM, Moon over Miami Hart From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Fri Feb 13 19:20:51 2009 From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:20:51 -0500 Subject: Miami / Toronto trade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200902131920.n1DJKsof014896@ares.afrc.af.mil> The "Hmmmmm" zipping through my head is (well, besides the Denny's breakfast synonym) who this trade helps more? Both "marquee" players in the deal are known as guys whose self-opinion is much higher than their results incurred. Both are guys who fill the stat sheet in meaningless games and seem to disappear in crunch time. However I do really like Jamario (I'm butchering the spelling I know) Moon although he seems to duplicate what Wade brings to that squad. Honestly, at first glance I don't think this makes either of them better. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of hartleyo at bellsouth.net Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:15 PM To: Celtics List Subject: Miami / Toronto trade Just reported on Miami Radio - Marion and old friend Banks traded for Jermaine O'neal and some guy name Moon. HMM, Moon over Miami Hart _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From keltsfan at comcast.net Fri Feb 13 19:48:37 2009 From: keltsfan at comcast.net (keltsfan) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:48:37 -0800 Subject: Miami / Toronto trade In-Reply-To: <200902131920.n1DJKsof014896@ares.afrc.af.mil> References: <200902131920.n1DJKsof014896@ares.afrc.af.mil> Message-ID: <007301c98e14$10747ed0$315d7c70$@net> Marion's contract expires after this season I think. O'Neal has at least another year at big dollars. Toronto wants out of that contract I suspect. > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of > Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:21 AM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: RE: Miami / Toronto trade > > The "Hmmmmm" zipping through my head is (well, besides the Denny's breakfast synonym) > who this trade helps more? Both "marquee" players in the deal are known as guys whose > self-opinion is much higher than their results incurred. Both are guys who fill the stat sheet > in meaningless games and seem to disappear in crunch time. However I do really like > Jamario (I'm butchering the spelling I know) Moon although he seems to duplicate what > Wade brings to that squad. > > Honestly, at first glance I don't think this makes either of them better. > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of > hartleyo at bellsouth.net > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:15 PM > To: Celtics List > Subject: Miami / Toronto trade > > Just reported on Miami Radio - Marion and old friend Banks traded for Jermaine O'neal and > some guy name Moon. > > HMM, Moon over Miami > > Hart > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From stevebknight at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 20:11:57 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:11:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: rondo References: Message-ID: <111700.71844.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> rondo's stats got me to thinking. has anyone ever had a 20-20-20 game? or even 15-15-15? that kid is special. especially considering i didn't even think it was one of his better games this year. a quadruple double is in his future. From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 20:55:29 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:55:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? Message-ID: <358797.93707.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well, here are the facts: We know Ainge has always liked Marion. We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the plague, avoiding the maple syrup-swilling Canadians at all cost. Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, seems to be the case, they won't make a failed effort to re-sign him, or they'll just deal him to a team with cap space for a Mid First Round Pick or so. Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the Celtics for the full MLE? Meh, very unlikely. Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's getting Rasheed, but Marion would be a nice replacement for R. Allen in the starting lineup. Ray From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Feb 13 20:56:27 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:56:27 EST Subject: Raptors acquire Marion from Heat Message-ID: Raptors acquire Marion from Heat By Marc Stein ESPN.com The _Miami Heat_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia) have known for weeks that they had the option of sending _Shawn Marion_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=510) to the _Toronto Raptors_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor) in a deal for center _Jermaine O'Neal_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=615) . Miami finally took that option on Friday -- which also takes the Heat out of the chase for Marion's ex-_Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho) teammate _Amare Stoudemire_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) . In a deal first reported by ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher, the Heat agreed to trade Marion and guard _Marcus Banks_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2165) to the Raptors for O'Neal and swingman _Jamario Moon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3249) . NBA officials approved the swap Friday afternoon by conference call, the Heat said. The deal also calls for the Heat to land a conditional future first-round pick and for Toronto to get the league's maximum allowed in cash considerations ($3 million). The deal was struck mere hours after Marion's dunk with 1.1 seconds to go delivered a 95-93 victory in Chicago in the Heat's final game before the All-Star break. The Heat and Raptors began discussing a swap featuring Marion and O'Neal in January, but Miami held off in hopes of finding an impact player in better health than O'Neal, who has missed 14 games in his first season in Toronto because of persistent knee trouble. The Heat, according to NBA front-office sources, made numerous attempts to acquire Dallas swingman _Josh Howard_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2006) with Marion's expiring $17.8 million salary, and more recently tried to use Marion's cap-friendly contract to get into the bidding for Stoudemire. Sources say that the Suns, though, had made it clear to the Heat in recent days they were not interested in reacquiring Marion -- in spite of the financial benefits -- for the rest of the season. Let's Make A Deal Here's how the trade that sent Shawn Marion to the Raptors and Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat looks in ESPN.com's _NBA Trade Machine_ (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=awxgjv) So Miami proceeded with the deal for O'Neal, which gives Heat president Pat Riley the traditional center he likes but, more importantly, enables Riley to preserve maximum salary-cap flexibility for the summer of 2010. O'Neal makes $23 million next season in the final year of his contract, after which Miami will try to re-sign _Dwyane Wade_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1987) and flank Wade and current rookie _Michael Beasley_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3418) with another free-agent superstar such as Stoudemire or Toronto's _Chris Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) . The Raptors have been shopping O'Neal since January after it became clear that there was not enough room for Bosh and their marquee offseason acquisition in the same offense. This deal will enable Toronto to field a more mobile frontcourt trio of Bosh, Marion and former No. 1 overall draft pick _Andrea Bargnani_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2987) , as preferred by Raptors president Bryan Colangelo. In 1999, Colangelo drafted Marion for the Suns with the ninth overall pick. After more than nine seasons in Phoenix, Marion and Banks were dealt to Miami for _Shaquille O'Neal_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=614) on Feb. 6, 2008. The Raptors' willingness to take Banks in this deal -- as well as give the Heat a conditional first-round pick -- apparently convinced Riley that he could no longer wait. Neither team has commented publicly on the deal. At All-Star Weekend in Phoenix, Wade told the Associated Press that he would wait until the deal was officially announced before commenting. Marion, 30, is averaging 12.0 points and 8.7 rebounds this season while bracing for a trade that has seemed inevitable since last summer, when he and the Heat could not reach terms on a contract extension. O'Neal, also 30, is averaging 13.5 points and 7.0 rebounds after Toronto acquired him from Indiana in July in a deal for _T.J. Ford_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1979) , _Rasho Nesterovic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=598) , _Maceo Baston_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=44) and a draft pick. Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report. **************Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000002) From martind42 at cox.net Fri Feb 13 21:00:26 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:00:26 -0500 Subject: rondo In-Reply-To: <111700.71844.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090213160026.SWGO2.317341.imail@eastrmwml33> If anyone has done that, it would have to be Oscar Robertson, who averaged a triple double for a season. Don't know whether he ever had 20 boards, but assists and points were very probable. ---- steve knight wrote: > rondo's stats got me to thinking. has anyone ever had a 20-20-20 game? or even 15-15-15? > > that kid is special. especially considering i didn't even think it was one of his better games this year. > > a quadruple double is in his future. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Feb 13 21:23:46 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:23:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? In-Reply-To: <358797.93707.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466557.11671.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> O'Neal is done and Marion isn't worth what we would have to give up. He has no perimeter game ? --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: From: Way Of The Ray Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 12:55 PM Well, here are the facts: We know Ainge has always liked Marion. We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the plague, avoiding the maple syrup-swilling Canadians at all cost. Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, seems to be the case, they won't make a failed effort to re-sign him, or they'll just deal him to a team with cap space for a Mid First Round Pick or so. Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the Celtics for the full MLE? Meh, very unlikely. Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's getting Rasheed, but Marion would be a nice replacement for R. Allen in the starting lineup. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Fri Feb 13 21:44:55 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:44:55 -0500 Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? In-Reply-To: <466557.11671.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090213164455.XT5U9.317764.imail@eastrmwml33> I'd rather re-up on Ray Allen than take on Marion. Marion plays the same position as Pierce (who is better suited as a 3). RA is a legitimate 2 guard. Say no to another Ray suggestion. ---- John Lyell wrote: > O'Neal is done and Marion isn't worth what we would have to give up. He has no perimeter game > ? > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: > > From: Way Of The Ray > Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? > To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 12:55 PM > > Well, here are the facts: > > We know Ainge has always liked Marion. > We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the plague, avoiding the maple > syrup-swilling Canadians at all cost. > Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, seems to be the case, > they won't make a failed effort to re-sign him, or they'll just deal him > to a team with cap space for a Mid First Round Pick or so. > Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the Celtics for the full MLE? > Meh, very unlikely. > Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's getting Rasheed, but > Marion would be a nice replacement for R. Allen in the starting lineup. > Ray > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 22:06:12 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? In-Reply-To: <20090213164455.XT5U9.317764.imail@eastrmwml33> Message-ID: <4507.7716.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Actually, Marion is more suited to the 4 spot. He's a speed guy with great athleticism at the 4. Put him at the 3 and suddenly he's not that fast or athletic (relative most 3 men), and since he's not a banger he really can't take advantage of any height/strength matchups. But we have a pretty good 4 right now too :) Depending on what we'd need to do to sign him, I think Marion would be the ultimate 6th man, assuming he'd be willing to take that role. Marion's biggest problem is his attitude. But, with good attitude, he'd give us a killer small ball lineup. He's money from the corners. Ryan --- On Fri, 2/13/09, martind42 at cox.net wrote: > From: martind42 at cox.net > Subject: Re: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" , jlyell at verizon.net > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 3:44 PM > I'd rather re-up on Ray Allen than take on Marion. > Marion plays the same position as Pierce (who is better > suited as a 3). RA is a legitimate 2 guard. Say no to > another Ray suggestion. > ---- John Lyell wrote: > > O'Neal is done and Marion isn't worth what we > would have to give up. He has no perimeter game > > ? > > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Way Of The Ray > wrote: > > > > From: Way Of The Ray > > Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The > Season For Marion? > > To: "Celtics Stuff" > , "Celtics Are > Idiots List" > > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > Well, here are the facts: > > > > We know Ainge has always liked Marion. > > We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the > plague, avoiding the maple > > syrup-swilling Canadians at all cost. > > Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, > seems to be the case, > > they won't make a failed effort to re-sign him, or > they'll just deal him > > to a team with cap space for a Mid First Round Pick or > so. > > Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the > Celtics for the full MLE? > > Meh, very unlikely. > > Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's > getting Rasheed, but > > Marion would be a nice replacement for R. Allen in the > starting lineup. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 22:12:18 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:12:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? In-Reply-To: <358797.93707.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <256903.43482.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Meh, Marion will be lucky to get what Posey got last summer. I'd love if he signed the MLE for 2 seasons, with a player option for the 2nd year. And if he did sign, he would be our new 6th man. We'd have a very potent small ball lineup, with Rondo driving and dishing to 4 All-Star caliber players with range. It would be an offensive nirvana. Rasheed Wallace is the more realistic signing however. Marion's attitude is a worry. Ryan --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: > From: Way Of The Ray > Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? > To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 2:55 PM > Well, here are the facts: > > We know Ainge has always liked Marion. > We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the > plague, avoiding the maple syrup-swilling Canadians at all > cost. > Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, seems > to be the case, they won't make a failed effort to > re-sign him, or they'll just deal him to a team with cap > space for a Mid First Round Pick or so. > Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the Celtics > for the full MLE? > Meh, very unlikely. > Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's > getting Rasheed, but Marion would be a nice replacement for > R. Allen in the starting lineup. > Ray > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Feb 13 22:29:22 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:29:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? In-Reply-To: <4507.7716.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <150875.71234.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The only problem is he is what 6'7, if that , undersized for the 4 spot ? Getting Sean Marion for the 6th man would cost us about 3-5 players ? If we could get him for Scal, POB & Giddens, I am all for it, but the chances of this our slim to none, Maybe we need to hook up with that idiot Chris Wallace and see what he is giving away this?year.? --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Ryan W wrote: From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 2:06 PM Actually, Marion is more suited to the 4 spot. He's a speed guy with great athleticism at the 4. Put him at the 3 and suddenly he's not that fast or athletic (relative most 3 men), and since he's not a banger he really can't take advantage of any height/strength matchups. But we have a pretty good 4 right now too :) Depending on what we'd need to do to sign him, I think Marion would be the ultimate 6th man, assuming he'd be willing to take that role. Marion's biggest problem is his attitude. But, with good attitude, he'd give us a killer small ball lineup. He's money from the corners. Ryan --- On Fri, 2/13/09, martind42 at cox.net wrote: > From: martind42 at cox.net > Subject: Re: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The Season For Marion? > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" , jlyell at verizon.net > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 3:44 PM > I'd rather re-up on Ray Allen than take on Marion. > Marion plays the same position as Pierce (who is better > suited as a 3). RA is a legitimate 2 guard. Say no to > another Ray suggestion. > ---- John Lyell wrote: > > O'Neal is done and Marion isn't worth what we > would have to give up. He has no perimeter game > > ? > > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Way Of The Ray > wrote: > > > > From: Way Of The Ray > > Subject: Could The Celtics Do A S&T After The > Season For Marion? > > To: "Celtics Stuff" > , "Celtics Are > Idiots List" > > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > Well, here are the facts: > > > > We know Ainge has always liked Marion. > > We know free agents generally treat Toronto like the > plague, avoiding the maple > > syrup-swilling Canadians at all cost. > > Of course, if Toronto is just looking to dump salary, > seems to be the case, > > they won't make a failed effort to re-sign him, or > they'll just deal him > > to a team with cap space for a Mid First Round Pick or > so. > > Would he be interested in a five-year-deal with the > Celtics for the full MLE? > > Meh, very unlikely. > > Yup, there's a much greater chance of the C's > getting Rasheed, but > > Marion would be a nice replacement for R. Allen in the > starting lineup. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From drivenkick43 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 22:31:15 2009 From: drivenkick43 at yahoo.com (Nathan A.) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: impressive stat Message-ID: <992897.81131.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> During the TNT postgame show of the C's-Mavs game, they showed a pretty impressive stat on the screen, though then never mentioned it: The Celtics are 3-0 when trailing by double digits at halftime. Think about that. Of course you know that next time the Celts are down 10+ at the half (if it happens again), we are guaranteed that some broadcasters predictably utter the line: "The Celtics have them right where they want them. What a great time to be a Celtic! -Nathan A. Nebraska From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Feb 14 11:52:27 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 03:52:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Danny Ainge Interview Message-ID: <160111.23402.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> As shown on CelticsBlog.com, http://newengland.comcastsportsnet.com/wickedgoodsports/celtics/danny-ainge-interview/ "Celtics Pre and Postgame Live host Gary Tanguay spoke with Celtics Executive Director of Basketball Operations and General Manager Danny Ainge about the All-Star and upcoming trade deadline." (running time - 4 mins 28 seconds) Plus there are a number of past interviews with Ainge and others on the WEEI website: http://audio.weei.com/basketball/weei_celtics_basketball_coverage.htm Have a great weekend everyone! Adam Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 18:45:09 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:45:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ainge Interview In-Reply-To: <160111.23402.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32505.64522.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> As long as we're passing out video links, y'all should check this one out too: http://www.nba.com/video/channels/allstar/2009/02/13/nba_20090213_allstar_kgarnett.nba/index.html It's an interview with KG, Craig Sager, and Gary Payton. KG's his normal funny self, and GP attempts to defend his dogging of Rondo's game, saying that him and Chris Webber were trying to motivate him to take his game to the next level. KG also has some very nice things to say about Rondo. And there's the obligatory jabs about Sags clothing choice, and some good digs at Payton for 'looking retired.' Is it me, or does KG have one of all-time most engaging personalities of any sports figure? He's always entertaining, whether it's in postgame press conferences, interviews or Gatorade commercials. He's just a natural entertainer. Ryan --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Danny Ainge Interview > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 5:52 AM > As shown on CelticsBlog.com, > > http://newengland.comcastsportsnet.com/wickedgoodsports/celtics/danny-ainge-interview/ > > "Celtics Pre and Postgame Live host Gary Tanguay spoke > with Celtics > Executive Director of Basketball Operations and General > Manager Danny Ainge about the All-Star and upcoming trade > deadline." > > (running time - 4 mins 28 seconds) > > > Plus there are a number of past interviews with Ainge and > others on the WEEI website: > > http://audio.weei.com/basketball/weei_celtics_basketball_coverage.htm > > Have a great weekend everyone! > > Adam > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 19:09:02 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:09:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Heat/Barneys trade Message-ID: <90116.48526.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I think Miami did pretty well to pick up Jamario Moon. Toronto was very high on him last season - young guy, nice size and athleticism, kinda came out of nowhere. I was actually thinking of his as somebody Boston might try to acquire for the stretch run to help replace Posey. Wonder if the Greezer might be persuaded to part with him (though I don't know how the time-limit works on how soon he can be traded again). His deal's up at the end of the year, so it would be a low-risk rental if Boston could get him for, say, Giddens or POB and a pick. (And sign me up for the idea of offering Marion the full MLE this off-season. Dunno if he'd pass up for money for a shot at a ring, but it's worth finding out.) From martind42 at cox.net Sat Feb 14 19:09:49 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:09:49 -0500 Subject: Ainge Interview In-Reply-To: <32505.64522.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090214140949.MZXBX.901127.imail@eastrmwml46> I see him with a long post NBA career in one aspect of this game or another. I think he'd be as good as any of the former NBA anouncers, and yet, still has the respect ot make it in the coaching ranks as well. Yea, Garnett is an imposing personality, and I mean that in a good way. Anyone who hates him, doesn' t know the real KG. Even if all we got was that one championship, it was worth surrounding Pierce with Allen and Ganett. I wish I had 1 tenth of his intensity and desire. ---- Ryan W wrote: > As long as we're passing out video links, y'all should check this one out too: http://www.nba.com/video/channels/allstar/2009/02/13/nba_20090213_allstar_kgarnett.nba/index.html > > It's an interview with KG, Craig Sager, and Gary Payton. KG's his normal funny self, and GP attempts to defend his dogging of Rondo's game, saying that him and Chris Webber were trying to motivate him to take his game to the next level. KG also has some very nice things to say about Rondo. And there's the obligatory jabs about Sags clothing choice, and some good digs at Payton for 'looking retired.' > > Is it me, or does KG have one of all-time most engaging personalities of any sports figure? He's always entertaining, whether it's in postgame press conferences, interviews or Gatorade commercials. He's just a natural entertainer. > > Ryan > > > --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > > > From: Adam Patterson > > Subject: Danny Ainge Interview > > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 5:52 AM > > As shown on CelticsBlog.com, > > > > http://newengland.comcastsportsnet.com/wickedgoodsports/celtics/danny-ainge-interview/ > > > > "Celtics Pre and Postgame Live host Gary Tanguay spoke > > with Celtics > > Executive Director of Basketball Operations and General > > Manager Danny Ainge about the All-Star and upcoming trade > > deadline." > > > > (running time - 4 mins 28 seconds) > > > > > > Plus there are a number of past interviews with Ainge and > > others on the WEEI website: > > > > http://audio.weei.com/basketball/weei_celtics_basketball_coverage.htm > > > > Have a great weekend everyone! > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Sat Feb 14 19:19:09 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:19:09 -0500 Subject: Heat/Barneys trade In-Reply-To: <90116.48526.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090214141909.Z34ZW.901184.imail@eastrmwml46> Agreed with the Moon acquisition, since he might end up provideng more help to the Heat than the ever inured-almost, but not quite (nor ever will), Jermaine O'Neal. This kid, in many ways, reminds me of Vince Carter, although the latter is playing his best ball to date. JO is probably the most overpaid "marquis" players in the league. Is as injury prone as Marcus Camby without the defensive abilities of Camby. He can score within 15 feet when his match-ups are in his favor, but he's soft and not consistant. His heart, is Ralph Samson-like. Moon may indeed be more consistant acquisition. JO has filed to prove to me that he is a winner. ---- Peter Delevett wrote: > > I think Miami did pretty well to pick up Jamario Moon. Toronto was very high on him last season - young guy, nice size and athleticism, kinda came out of nowhere. I was actually thinking of his as somebody Boston might try to acquire for the stretch run to help replace Posey. Wonder if the Greezer might be persuaded to part with him (though I don't know how the time-limit works on how soon he can be traded again). His deal's up at the end of the year, so it would be a low-risk rental if Boston could get him for, say, Giddens or POB and a pick. > > (And sign me up for the idea of offering Marion the full MLE this off-season. Dunno if he'd pass up for money for a shot at a ring, but it's worth finding out.) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Feb 14 19:29:19 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:29:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: More Video Links Message-ID: <123101.5893.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Seems like a good time to catch up on some videos :) These ones are from TrueHoop on the ESPN website. Good videos from the first half of the season (no Celtics videos however): http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3894078 And here's a very cool reel of game highlights (from 1 game). The only catch is the video guy is a Portland fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpu56UPXcd4 He did put together a great Celtics video though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_S4OidRfi4 Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From BDodgers at aol.com Sun Feb 15 06:01:36 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:01:36 EST Subject: MVP award named after Russell Message-ID: MVP award named after Russell Associated Press PHOENIX -- Bill Russell was never an NBA Finals MVP. Now the award is named after him. Starting this year, the Finals MVP will receive the Bill Russell NBA Finals Most Valuable Player Award, commissioner David Stern announced Saturday. "This is one of my proudest moments in basketball, because I determined early in my career, the only important statistic in basketball is the final score," Russell said. Russell's wife, Marilyn, recently died of cancer, and he was visibly moved as he accepted the honor. "This is a bittersweet award," Russell said. "I just lost my special person. But I wanted to thank my teammates because we played a team game quite well. I accept this for my team, and my team included our coach, Red Auerbach, and all my teammates over the years. This is quite flattering." Russell, a cornerstone of Boston's NBA dynasty in the 1960s, was a five-time NBA MVP and won 11 championships as a player and coach. But he never won the Finals MVP award. The NBA first named a Finals MVP in 1969, after the series between Russell's Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Lakers. The Celtics won the title but Los Angeles' Jerry West won the MVP trophy -- the first and only time the award has gone to a member of the losing team. "Who better to name this prestigious award for than one of the greatest players of all time and the ultimate champion," Stern said. The award, presented at the end of the Finals, is voted by writers and broadcasters covering the series. "What I'm going to do next week is visit my father's grave, because he was my hero," Russell said. "And I'm going to share that with him." Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From jlyell at verizon.net Sun Feb 15 15:15:58 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 07:15:58 -0800 Subject: MVP award named after Russell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62B6D899-FB19-40C2-9A94-2F148A6F2223@verizon.net> How could russ never have been the MVP? That blows me away, or tells you he was the ultimate team player that made others better On Feb 14, 2009, at 10:01 PM, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: > > MVP award named after Russell > > Associated Press > > PHOENIX -- Bill Russell was never an NBA Finals MVP. > Now the award is named after him. > Starting this year, the Finals MVP will receive the Bill Russell NBA > Finals > Most Valuable Player Award, commissioner David Stern announced > Saturday. "This > is one of my proudest moments in basketball, because I determined > early in > my career, the only important statistic in basketball is the final > score," > Russell said. > Russell's wife, Marilyn, recently died of cancer, and he was visibly > moved as > he accepted the honor. > "This is a bittersweet award," Russell said. "I just lost my special > person. > But I wanted to thank my teammates because we played a team game > quite well. > I accept this for my team, and my team included our coach, Red > Auerbach, and > all my teammates over the years. This is quite flattering." > Russell, a cornerstone of Boston's NBA dynasty in the 1960s, was a > five-time > NBA MVP and won 11 championships as a player and coach. But he never > won the > Finals MVP award. > The NBA first named a Finals MVP in 1969, after the series between > Russell's > Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Lakers. The Celtics won the title > but Los > Angeles' Jerry West won the MVP trophy -- the first and only time > the award > has gone to a member of the losing team. > "Who better to name this prestigious award for than one of the > greatest > players of all time and the ultimate champion," Stern said. > The award, presented at the end of the Finals, is voted by writers and > broadcasters covering the series. > "What I'm going to do next week is visit my father's grave, because > he was my > hero," Russell said. "And I'm going to share that with him." > > Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press > **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003 > ) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Sun Feb 15 15:25:01 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:25:01 -0500 Subject: MVP award named after Russell In-Reply-To: <62B6D899-FB19-40C2-9A94-2F148A6F2223@verizon.net> References: <62B6D899-FB19-40C2-9A94-2F148A6F2223@verizon.net> Message-ID: <0KF400GTT5HPWNW4@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> At 10:15 AM 2/15/2009, John Lyell wrote: >How could russ never have been the MVP? That blows me away, or tells >you he was the ultimate team player that made others better No, it's because they only began giving it out in 1969 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award Kim From pmaymin at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 19:52:15 2009 From: pmaymin at gmail.com (Philip Maymin) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Celtics' Stuff ] MVP award named after Russell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA5F9F3-0C65-4CCA-A8D7-E58AFCF9E80E@gmail.com> Especially if, a la Jerry West, the Celtics were to win but Kobe were to get the award. :) On Feb 15, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Eric Pincus wrote: > It?d be ironic if a Laker won it in the first year it?s named > after a Celtic > > > > From: Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com [mailto:Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com > ] On Behalf Of bdodgers at aol.com > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:02 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Celtics' Stuff ] MVP award named after Russell > > > > MVP award named after Russell > > Associated Press > > PHOENIX -- Bill Russell was never an NBA Finals MVP. > > Now the award is named after him. > > Starting this year, the Finals MVP will receive the Bill Russell NBA > Finals Most Valuable Player Award, commissioner David Stern > announced Saturday. > > "This is one of my proudest moments in basketball, because I > determined early in my career, the only important statistic in > basketball is the final score," Russell said. > > Russell's wife, Marilyn, recently died of cancer, and he was visibly > moved as he accepted the honor. > > "This is a bittersweet award," Russell said. "I just lost my special > person. But I wanted to thank my teammates because we played a team > game quite well. I accept this for my team, and my team included our > coach, Red Auerbach, and all my teammates over the years. This is > quite flattering." > > Russell, a cornerstone of Boston's NBA dynasty in the 1960s, was a > five-time NBA MVP and won 11 championships as a player and coach. > But he never won the Finals MVP award. > > The NBA first named a Finals MVP in 1969, after the series between > Russell's Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Lakers. The Celtics won > the title but Los Angeles' Jerry West won the MVP trophy -- the > first and only time the award has gone to a member of the losing team. > > "Who better to name this prestigious award for than one of the > greatest players of all time and the ultimate champion," Stern said. > > The award, presented at the end of the Finals, is voted by writers > and broadcasters covering the series. > > "What I'm going to do next week is visit my father's grave, because > he was my hero," Russell said. "And I'm going to share that with him." > > > Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press > > > > Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. > > > > > __._,_.___ > > > Boston Celtics' fans; looking for inspiration,intellect and humor. > > RSS: > http://rss.groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticsstuffgroup/rss > > > > > Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch > to Fully Featured > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > __,_._,___ From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sun Feb 15 20:25:05 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:25:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League Message-ID: <865768.96531.qm@web63802.mail.re1.yahoo.com> J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... From: http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League February 9, 11:48 PM by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, former Lobo star J.R. Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. In his return to Utah, the Flash picked up a win as J.R. eased back into game shape after not playing for a month. His second game back with Utah was a loss but he put up decent numbers. Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA Draft, suited up once for the defending champs but never saw a minute on the floor. What a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very excited when they drafted J.R.. He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. Giddens is a long and athletic wing who can guard three positions, with good range and a chip on his shoulder. I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The only thing Posey has that J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the ability to lead. But with Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. The Celts also picked up Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince Carter -- because of his leaping ability, not because he will tank when he wants out of somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft stock. With Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would have some explosiveness off the bench this year. Eddie House has been great but where is the wing? In Utah now. The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot then ruined his chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him up, which was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? Give the kid a chance to show you what he can do. The Celtics will need Giddens at some point this season and here's hoping J.R. can rise to the occasion and help the Celtics get another ring. Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 21:37:03 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:37:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League In-Reply-To: <865768.96531.qm@web63802.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <290076.39786.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's talking about. Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like 5 years. You need more than talent to succeed in the NBA. I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think they're both starter-quality prospects or better, but they are no where near ready to contribute on this team this season. Ryan --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM > J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... > > > From: > http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague > > > J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > February 9, 11:48 PM > by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner > > After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, former > Lobo star J.R. > Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental > League. > > > In his return to Utah, the Flash picked up a win as J.R. > eased back into game shape after not playing for a month. > > His second game back with Utah was a loss but he put up > decent numbers. > > Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA Draft, suited > up once for the defending champs but never saw a minute on > the floor. > > What > a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very excited when > they drafted J.R.. > He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. Giddens is a > long and > athletic wing who can guard three positions, with good > range and a chip > on his shoulder. > > I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could > step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The only thing > Posey has that > J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the ability to > lead. But with > Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. > > The Celts also picked up > Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince Carter -- > because of his > leaping ability, not because he will tank when he wants out > of > somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft stock. > > With > Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin Garnett, > Paul Pierce > and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would have some > explosiveness off > the bench this year. Eddie House has been great but where > is the wing? > In Utah now. > > The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot then > ruined his chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him > up, which > was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? Give the > kid a chance to > show you what he can do. > > The Celtics will need Giddens at some > point this season and here's hoping J.R. can rise to > the occasion and > help the Celtics get another ring. > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Mon Feb 16 05:45:35 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:45:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League Message-ID: <890899.82158.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Giddens can't replace Posey because they essentially play different positions, but the interesting thing is that this news was hardly posted ANYWHERE. I just checked back through the Boston newspapers and there's a small footnote in The Globe on February 6 and a very small article in The Boston Herald the same day. The below article, as wrong as it is, is the only substantial write up. Some people have completely fogotten about Giddens. Plus it looks like Gabe Pruitt will be the next guard in the rotation for the Celts unless they make a Ben Gordon (or equivalent) signing this offseason. Perhaps Giddens won't crack the Celtics rotation... ever. Old mate Marcus Banks will be out of the league in a few years by the looks of it. Giddens may not even be given the chances Banks had, at least not with the C's. --- Ryan W wrote: I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's talking about. Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like 5 years. You need more than talent to succeed in the NBA. I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think they're both starter-quality prospects or better, but they are no where near ready to contribute on this team this season. Ryan --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM > J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... > > > From: >http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague > > > J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > February 9, 11:48 PM > by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner > > After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, former > Lobo star J.R. > Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental > League. > > > In his return to Utah, the Flash picked up a win as J.R. > eased back into game shape after not playing for a month. > > His second game back with Utah was a loss but he put up > decent numbers. > > Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA Draft, suited > up once for the defending champs but never saw a minute on > the floor. > > What > a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very excited when > they drafted J.R.. > He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. Giddens is a > long and > athletic wing who can guard three positions, with good > range and a chip > on his shoulder. > > I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could > step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The only thing > Posey has that > J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the ability to > lead. But with > Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. > > The Celts also picked up > Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince Carter -- > because of his > leaping ability, not because he will tank when he wants out > of > somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft stock. > > With > Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin Garnett, > Paul Pierce > and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would have some > explosiveness off > the bench this year. Eddie House has been great but where > is the wing? > In Utah now. > > The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot then > ruined his chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him > up, which > was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? Give the > kid a chance to > show you what he can do. > > The Celtics will need Giddens at some > point this season and here's hoping J.R. can rise to > the occasion and > help the Celtics get another ring. > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Mon Feb 16 05:46:07 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:46:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: =?utf-8?B?Q+KAmXMgc3RhbmRpbmcgcGF0?= Message-ID: <158252.81386.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/other_nba/view/2009_02_15_Amare_Stoudemire_rumored_to_be_on_his_way_elsewhere:_This_Sun_may_set/ Though Danny Ainge, who has a home in Phoenix, was in attendance yesterday, the Celtics[team stats] executive director of basketball operations had little to report in the way of trade or free agent activity. Nor did the other members of the Celtics organization feel a need for immediate help. ?That?s not something that I?m thinking about,? Paul Pierce[stats] said. ?We?ve got the second-best record in the NBA. . . . I like what we have, but that?s not really in my hands. ?I think we have the pieces necessary to win another championship. Teams are always looking to improve. If there is any way to do it, they will do it. If not, I think we are still one of the best teams in the NBA.? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 06:21:28 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:21:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League In-Reply-To: <890899.82158.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <314970.53545.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Oh, I think he has a chance; a real good chance. He plays or will play above average offense and defense on the NBA level, which is nice and makes him starter quality. I think he will get a chance with the Cs--not this season, but definitely going into next season and the one after that (he'll challenge TA and/or Eddie--as a 2 guard--for minutes next season, as will Walker). I'm pretty high on him and Walker, but I've learnt that it takes veterans to win championships. Even Rondo needed a season in the league before he was ready to contribute.... That said, Danny will not just give him away--Danny never gives away young players. He'll give him time to grow and get better, and either play a role on the Cs or be packaged (once his worth grows appropriately) for another need. Right now, he's not worth as much is he is to the Cs and for that reason I think he sticks around at least another season or two. As for the coverage of his demotion to the D-League, I thought it was appropriately covered--I mean, what more could they say--he hardly played with the Cs while he was up and we're a championship-caliber team so it's not like the beat guys are searching for that many stories. Ryan --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 11:45 PM > Giddens can't replace Posey because they essentially > play different positions, but the interesting thing is that > this news was hardly posted ANYWHERE. > > I just checked back through the Boston newspapers and > there's a small footnote in The Globe on February 6 and > a very small article in The Boston Herald the same day. The > below article, as wrong as it is, is the only substantial > write up. Some people have completely fogotten about > Giddens. > > Plus it looks like Gabe Pruitt will be the next guard in > the rotation for the Celts unless they make a Ben Gordon (or > equivalent) signing this offseason. > > Perhaps Giddens won't crack the Celtics rotation... > ever. > > Old mate Marcus Banks will be out of the league in a few > years by the looks of it. Giddens may not even be given the > chances Banks had, at least not with the C's. > > > > --- Ryan W wrote: > > > I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since > it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's talking > about. Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like 5 > years. You need more than talent to succeed in > the NBA. > > I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think > they're both starter-quality prospects or better, but > they are no where near ready to contribute on this team this > season. > > Ryan > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > From: Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> > > Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > > To: "Celtics Mailing List" igtc.com> > > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM > > J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... > > > > > > From: > >http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague > > > > > > J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > > February 9, 11:48 PM > > by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner > > > > After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, > former > > Lobo star J.R. > > Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA > Developmental > > League. > > > > > > In his return to > > Utah, > the Flash picked up a win as J.R. > > eased back into game shape after not playing for a > month. > > > > His second game back with Utah was a loss but he put > up > > decent numbers. > > > > Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA > Draft, suited > > up once for the defending champs but never saw a > minute on > > the floor. > > > > What > > a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very excited > when > > they drafted J.R.. > > He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. Giddens > is a > > long and > > athletic wing who can guard three positions, with good > > range and a chip > > on his shoulder. > > > > I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could > > step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The only > thing > > > Posey > has > that > > J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the ability > to > > lead. But with > > Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. > > > > The Celts also picked up > > Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince Carter > -- > > because > of his > > leaping ability, not because he will tank when he > wants out > > of > > somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft > stock. > > > > With > > Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin > Garnett, > > Paul Pierce > > and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would have > some > > explosiveness off > > the bench this year. Eddie House has been great but > where > > is the wing? > > In Utah now. > > > > The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot > > then > > ruined > his > chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him > > up, which > > was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? Give > the > > kid a chance to > > show you what he can do. > > > > The Celtics will need Giddens at some > > point this season > and here's hoping J.R. can rise to > > the occasion and > > help the Celtics get another ring. > > > > > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >celtics at igtc.com > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Mon Feb 16 09:56:03 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:56:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League Message-ID: <259672.30082.qm@web63802.mail.re1.yahoo.com> You're probably right, about Giddens and the reporting. ? It just took me by surprise when I saw that Giddens was demoted and it was over a week ago. ? Plus, we hear so much about the Big 3 that when someone writes about one of the young players it is a breath of fresh air (even if it is wrong he he). ? There was actually a very good article in The Globe a couple of weeks ago about Giddens: ? http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/02/02/dressing_for_the_game_suits_giddens_for_now/?page=full ? As for his career path, I've been following from afar a bloke named Shannon Brown who was recently a throw-in with the Adam Morrison trade to the Lakers. He seems to have a similar game to Giddens (shooting guard who drives to the basket and can shoot the 3) and he is also a late 1st-round draft pick, but hopefully J.R. doesn't play for 4 teams in 3 years like Brown has (4 teams in 12 months actually). ? One thing that is definitely a plus for Giddens is that we don?t have a 1st-round pick this year. Because of this, he and Semih Erden will hopefully have a chance next season. With all the young players now on the C?s we may even have a Summer League team this year?? ? Patience is definitely the key for Giddens, Pruitt et al. --- Ryan W wrote: Oh, I think he has a chance; a real good chance.? He plays or will play above average offense and defense on the NBA level, which is nice and makes him starter quality.? I think he will get a chance with the Cs--not this season, but definitely going into next season and the one after that (he'll challenge TA and/or Eddie--as a 2 guard--for minutes next season, as will Walker).? I'm pretty high on him and Walker, but I've learnt that it takes veterans to win championships.? Even Rondo needed a season in the league before he was ready to contribute....? That said, Danny will not just give him away--Danny never gives away young players.? He'll give him time to grow and get better, and either play a role on the Cs or be packaged (once his worth grows appropriately) for another need.? Right now, he's not worth as much is he is to the Cs and for that reason I think he sticks around at least another season or two. As for the coverage of his demotion to the D-League, I thought it was appropriately covered--I mean, what more could they say--he hardly played with the Cs while he was up and we're a championship-caliber team so it's not like the beat guys are searching for that many stories. Ryan --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson wrote: >From: Adam Patterson >Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League >To: "Celtics Mailing List" >Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 11:45 PM >Giddens can't replace Posey because they essentially >play different positions, but the interesting thing is that >this news was hardly posted ANYWHERE. > >I just checked back through the Boston newspapers and >there's a small footnote in The Globe on February 6 and >a very small article in The Boston Herald the same day. The >below article, as wrong as it is, is the only substantial >write up. Some people have completely fogotten about >Giddens. > >Plus it looks like Gabe Pruitt will be the next guard in >the rotation for the Celts unless they make a Ben Gordon (or >equivalent) signing this offseason. > >Perhaps Giddens won't crack the Celtics rotation... >ever. > >Old mate Marcus Banks will be out of the league in a few >years by the looks of it. Giddens may not even be given the >chances Banks had, at least not with the C's. > > > >--- Ryan W wrote: > > >I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since >it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's talking >about.? Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like 5 >years.? You need more than talent to succeed in >? the NBA.? > >I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think >they're both starter-quality prospects or better, but >they are no where near ready to contribute on this team this >season. > >Ryan > >--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> wrote: > >> From: Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> >> Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League >> To: "Celtics Mailing List" igtc.com> >> Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM >> J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... >> >> >> From: >>http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague >> >> >> J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League >>?? February 9, 11:48 PM >> by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner >> >> After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, >former >> Lobo star J.R. >> Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA >Developmental >> League. >> >> >> In his return to > >? Utah, >? the Flash picked up a win as J.R. >> eased back into game shape after not playing for a >month. >> >> His second game back with Utah was a loss but he put >up >> decent numbers. >> >> Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA >? Draft, suited >> up once for the defending champs but never saw a >minute on >> the floor. >> >> What >> a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very excited >when >> they drafted J.R.. >> He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. Giddens >is a >> long and >> athletic wing who can guard three positions, with good >> range and a chip >> on his shoulder. >> >> I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could >> step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The only >thing >> >? Posey >? has >? that >> J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the ability >to >> lead. But with >> Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. >> >> The Celts also picked up >> Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince Carter >-- >> because >? of his >> leaping ability, not because he will tank when he >wants out >> of >> somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft >stock. >> >> With >> Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin >Garnett, >> Paul Pierce >> and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would have >some >> explosiveness off >> the bench this year. Eddie House has been great but >where >> is the wing? >> In Utah now. >> >> The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot > >? then >> ruined >? his >? chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him >> up, which >> was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? Give >the >> kid a chance to >> show you what he can do. >> >> The Celtics will need Giddens at some >> point this season >? and here's hoping J.R. can rise to >> the occasion and >> help the Celtics get another ring. >> >> >> >>?????? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the >> Quiksilver Pro. Find out more >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>celtics at igtc.com >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > >?????? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the >Quiksilver Pro. Find out more >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 10:19:27 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:19:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fw: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League Message-ID: <691914.79140.qm@web56704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > From: R Howe > Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:47 PM > I agree they (Giddens and Walker) have rotation to starter > level talent and with the length, athletisism and skill sets > currently needed and deemed lacking for this years C's > for the C's. The dilemma faced by these players and > Gabe/POB is that they represent a 2-3 year year rebuilding > plan while on a title contending team and they will not be > given PT and shown patience to learn in real games even if > the C's need the talents they have. > > Why they will not see any meaningful if at all PT, barring > a major catastrophe is that we are half way through the > season and the rotations and pecking order are pretty set > along with hardly any practice time to get them (Giddens, > Walker, POB and Gabe to lesser extent) meshed in with the > team and the needed face time with Doc and staff to earn > their trust to get PT. Doc will not, nor should he be > expected to, throw untested, inexperienced players on the > floor when he has a playoff/title contending team to run, > unless absolutely forced to. > > To me I think or hope all 4 players I mentioned above get a > better chance to show the staff over the summer (summer > league this year please) and training camp to become trusted > options going into next season. They will not be competing > against a new crop of draftees this year, only Erden? and > they do represent options at positions the C's will need > going forward. I only hope the C's dont get too > impatient with these players and dump them for a sack lunch > because they are not ready, not because of talent but > because of experience, to assume significant roles on a > title contender in their first or second year. Wouldn't > Billups and J. Johnson look great in green now. > > Go C's > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Ryan W > wrote: > > > From: Ryan W > > Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > > > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 4:37 PM > > I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since > > it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's > talking > > about. Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like > 5 > > years. You need more than talent to succeed in the > NBA. > > > > I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think > > they're both starter-quality prospects or better, > but > > they are no where near ready to contribute on this > team this > > season. > > > > Ryan > > > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson > > wrote: > > > > > From: Adam Patterson > > > > > Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > > > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > > > > > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM > > > J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague > > > > > > > > > J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > > > February 9, 11:48 PM > > > by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner > > > > > > After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, > > former > > > Lobo star J.R. > > > Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA > > Developmental > > > League. > > > > > > > > > In his return to Utah, the Flash picked up a win > as > > J.R. > > > eased back into game shape after not playing for > a > > month. > > > > > > His second game back with Utah was a loss but he > put > > up > > > decent numbers. > > > > > > Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA > Draft, > > suited > > > up once for the defending champs but never saw a > > minute on > > > the floor. > > > > > > What > > > a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very > excited > > when > > > they drafted J.R.. > > > He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. > Giddens > > is a > > > long and > > > athletic wing who can guard three positions, with > good > > > range and a chip > > > on his shoulder. > > > > > > I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could > > > step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The > only > > thing > > > Posey has that > > > J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the > ability > > to > > > lead. But with > > > Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. > > > > > > The Celts also picked up > > > Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince > Carter > > -- > > > because of his > > > leaping ability, not because he will tank when he > > wants out > > > of > > > somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his > draft > > stock. > > > > > > With > > > Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin > > Garnett, > > > Paul Pierce > > > and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would > have > > some > > > explosiveness off > > > the bench this year. Eddie House has been great > but > > where > > > is the wing? > > > In Utah now. > > > > > > The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot > then > > > ruined his chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by > > calling him > > > up, which > > > was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? > Give > > the > > > kid a chance to > > > show you what he can do. > > > > > > The Celtics will need Giddens at some > > > point this season and here's hoping J.R. can > rise > > to > > > the occasion and > > > help the Celtics get another ring. > > > > > > > > > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip > to the > > > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > > celtics at igtc.com > > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 20:02:21 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:02:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League In-Reply-To: <259672.30082.qm@web63802.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <704281.55789.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Well, I hope he turns out about better than Shannon Brown. Giddens, I think, has much better length and athleticism than Brown... Ryan --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 3:56 AM > You're probably right, about Giddens and the reporting. > ? > It just took me by surprise when I saw that Giddens was > demoted and it was over a week ago. > ? > Plus, we hear so much about the Big 3 that when someone > writes about one of the young players it is a breath of > fresh air (even if it is wrong he he). > ? > There was actually a very good article in The Globe a > couple of weeks ago about Giddens: > ? > http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/02/02/dressing_for_the_game_suits_giddens_for_now/?page=full > ? > As for his career path, I've been following from afar a > bloke named Shannon Brown who was recently a throw-in with > the Adam Morrison trade to the Lakers. He seems to have a > similar game to Giddens (shooting guard who drives to the > basket and can shoot the 3) and he is also a late 1st-round > draft pick, but hopefully J.R. doesn't play for 4 teams > in 3 years like Brown has (4 teams in 12 months actually). > ? > One thing that is definitely a plus for Giddens is that we > don?t have a 1st-round pick this year. Because of this, he > and Semih Erden will hopefully have a chance next season. > With all the young players now on the C?s we may even have > a Summer League team this year?? > ? > Patience is definitely the key for Giddens, Pruitt et al. > > > --- Ryan W wrote: > > Oh, I think he has a chance; a real good chance.? He plays > or will play above average offense and defense on the NBA > level, which is nice and makes him starter quality.? I > think he will get a chance with the Cs--not this season, but > definitely going into next season and the one after that > (he'll challenge TA and/or Eddie--as a 2 guard--for > minutes next season, as will Walker).? I'm pretty high > on him and Walker, but I've learnt that it takes > veterans to win championships.? Even Rondo needed a season > in the league before he was ready to contribute....? That > said, Danny will not just give him away--Danny never gives > away young players.? He'll give him time to grow and > get better, and either play a role on the Cs or be packaged > (once his worth grows appropriately) for another need.? > Right now, he's not worth as much is he is to the Cs and > for that reason I think he sticks around at least another > season or two. > > As for the coverage of his demotion to the D-League, I > thought it was appropriately covered--I mean, what more > could they say--he hardly played with the Cs while he was up > and we're a championship-caliber team so it's not > like the beat guys are searching for that many stories. > > Ryan > > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > >From: Adam Patterson yahoo.com.au> > >Subject: Re: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > >To: "Celtics Mailing List" igtc.com> > >Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 11:45 PM > >Giddens can't replace Posey because they > essentially > >play different positions, but the interesting thing is > that > >this news was hardly posted ANYWHERE. > > > >I just checked back through the Boston newspapers and > >there's a small footnote in The Globe on February 6 > and > >a very small article in The Boston Herald the same day. > The > >below article, as wrong as it is, is the only > substantial > >write up. Some people have completely fogotten about > >Giddens. > > > >Plus it looks like Gabe Pruitt will be the next guard > in > >the rotation for the Celts unless they make a Ben > Gordon (or > >equivalent) signing this offseason. > > > >Perhaps Giddens won't crack the Celtics rotation... > >ever. > > > >Old mate Marcus Banks will be out of the league in a > few > >years by the looks of it. Giddens may not even be given > the > >chances Banks had, at least not with the C's. > > > > > > > >--- Ryan W wrote: > > > > > >I'm surprised this guy gets paid to write, since > >it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's > talking > >about.? Yeah, JR Giddens could replace Posey...in like > 5 > >years.? You need more than talent to succeed in > >? the NBA.? > > > >I like Giddens and especially Walker and I think > >they're both starter-quality prospects or better, > but > >they are no where near ready to contribute on this team > this > >season. > > > >Ryan > > > >--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Adam Patterson at > >yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > >> From: Adam Patterson >yahoo.com.au> > >> Subject: J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > >> To: "Celtics Mailing List" at > >igtc.com> > >> Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:25 PM > >> J.R. seems to be flying under the radar... > >> > >> > >> From: > >>http://www.examiner.com/x-3497-New-Mexico-Lobos-Examiner~y2009m2d9-JR-returns-to-the-DLeague > >> > >> > >> J.R. Giddens returns to the D-League > >>?? February 9, 11:48 PM > >> by Kevin Hendricks, New Mexico Lobos Examiner > >> > >> After an uneventful run with the Boston Celtics, > >former > >> Lobo star J.R. > >> Giddens returned to the Utah Flash of the NBA > >Developmental > >> League. > >> > >> > >> In his return to > > > >? Utah, > >? the Flash picked up a win as J.R. > >> eased back into game shape after not playing for a > >month. > >> > >> His second game back with Utah was a loss but he > put > >up > >> decent numbers. > >> > >> Giddens, the 30th pick of last year's NBA > >? Draft, suited > >> up once for the defending champs but never saw a > >minute on > >> the floor. > >> > >> What > >> a waste. I'm a Celtics fan and was very > excited > >when > >> they drafted J.R.. > >> He is the perfect replacement for James Posey. > Giddens > >is a > >> long and > >> athletic wing who can guard three positions, with > good > >> range and a chip > >> on his shoulder. > >> > >> I was sure -- and still am -- that J.R. could > >> step in and fill Posey's role perfectly. The > only > >thing > >> > >? Posey > >? has > >? that > >> J.R. does not, aside from experience, is the > ability > >to > >> lead. But with > >> Giddens' attitude, I'd call it a wash. > >> > >> The Celts also picked up > >> Bill Walker, who was dubbed as the next Vince > Carter > >-- > >> because > >? of his > >> leaping ability, not because he will tank when he > >wants out > >> of > >> somewhere -- before knee injuries killed his draft > >stock. > >> > >> With > >> Giddens and B-Walk learning from the great Kevin > >Garnett, > >> Paul Pierce > >> and Ray Allen, it looked like the C's would > have > >some > >> explosiveness off > >> the bench this year. Eddie House has been great > but > >where > >> is the wing? > >> In Utah now. > >> > >> The Celtics kept Giddens in the D-League to rot > > > >? then > >> ruined > >? his > >? chance at the NBADL All-Star Game by calling him > >> up, which > >> was great, but didn't let him play. Why not? > Give > >the > >> kid a chance to > >> show you what he can do. > >> > >> The Celtics will need Giddens at some > >> point this season > >? and here's hoping J.R. can rise to > >> the occasion and > >> help the Celtics get another ring. > >> > >> > >> > >>?????? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a > trip to the > >> Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > >> _______________________________________________ > >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >>celtics at igtc.com > >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > >?????? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip > to the > >Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > >_______________________________________________ > >The Boston Celtics Mailing List > >celtics at igtc.com > >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the > Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From strauss at email.wcu.edu Mon Feb 16 21:59:01 2009 From: strauss at email.wcu.edu (Bob Strauss) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:59:01 -0500 Subject: Oscar Robertson and more Message-ID: I asked a friend, who has always followed the NBA more closely than I have about the Big O have over 20 rebounds in a game. This was his reply: Believe it or not, Hal Greer once had 29 rebounds in a regular season NBA game!!!! Of course, many were loose ball rebounds, but still really impressive. I'm not sure but I would guess that Robertson probably had at least one game with 20+ rebounds. What they overlook is that Robertson averaged a triple-double over his first 5 seasons (including the playoffs). Of course, if blocks were an official statistic when Chamberlain played, he would have had about 40-50 quadruple-doubles, and probably at least 300 triple-doubles. Bob __________________________________________ Bob Strauss Cataloger Hunter Library Western Carolina U. strauss at email.wcu.edu Now on Facebook! Phone : (828) 227-3400 From pdelevett at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 07:37:03 2009 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:37:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Standing pat? Message-ID: <386661.86118.qm@web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> OK, I don't expect Ainge to come out and say he's looking to make a deal - he's much too savvy a poker player, as last season proved. But with no disrespect to Paul Pierce, who knows quite a lot more about basketball than I do, I definitely don't think the Celtics have the pieces in place to win another championship. Or at least, to hurdle the other contenders this year. Here's one reason: last year, loaded with arguably one of the most talented rosters in franchise history (just ask Bob Ryan), the Celtics needed 6 games to make it past the Lakers, who were playing without Bynum. If this year's Celtics - absent Posey, absent Brown - were to make it to the Finals again, there's a good chance Bynum would be in the purple and gold - and that the Celtics wouldn't have home-court advantage. The possibility of Cleveland landing Amare Stoudemire for Wally's contract and spare parts also should give Ainge urgency. Matt Barnes is reportedly available and would be a perfect glue guy for the second unit: 6'7, good defender, shooting 35% on treys. Call him Posey Redux. You could land him for any of Boston's salary detritis (Gooden, POB, Pruitt, Walker, Powe, Cassell) - on paper, anyway. Wonder what else PHX might want to seal the deal. From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Tue Feb 17 08:12:42 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:12:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell Message-ID: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell By Chad Ford ESPN.com The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. The deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 players on their current roster. Cassell hasn't played a game for the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From roger.belanger at ips.invensys.com Tue Feb 17 13:55:40 2009 From: roger.belanger at ips.invensys.com (Belanger, Roger) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:55:40 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Right now it just seems they are doing the C's a big favor which I find a little hard to swallow. They didn't have to dump the 2nd round pick as they're not obligated to sign whoever they pick in that spot anyhow. Gotta assume this was all cash motivated and the Kings must be feeling a $$ pinch. No matter what, I would expect Sam to be hired on as an asst for the balance of the season once the Kings waive him. Bigger question is what are the rest of the moves? Who's coming in? -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Adam Patterson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM To: Celtics Mailing List Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell By Chad Ford ESPN.com The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. The deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 players on their current roster. Cassell hasn't played a game for the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics * Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). * Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). From noah.evans at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 13:59:59 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:59:59 +0900 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> References: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> Message-ID: <56a297000902170559t4f0b0a53jc637e166957892d0@mail.gmail.com> My guess is it's the "cash considerations". The Kings get free money, the C's don't have to pay as much Luxury tax. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Right now it just seems they are doing the C's a big favor which I find a little hard to swallow. They didn't have to dump the 2nd round pick as they're not obligated to sign whoever they pick in that spot anyhow. Gotta assume this was all cash motivated and the Kings must be feeling a $$ pinch. > No matter what, I would expect Sam to be hired on as an asst for the balance of the season once the Kings waive him. Bigger question is what are the rest of the moves? Who's coming in? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Adam Patterson > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM > To: Celtics Mailing List > Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 > > > Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > By Chad Ford > ESPN.com > > > The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. > > Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. > > The > deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's > luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it > as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source > says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player > to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 > players on their current roster. > > Cassell hasn't played a game for > the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in > the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with > Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil Tue Feb 17 14:06:30 2009 From: Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil (Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:06:30 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <56a297000902170559t4f0b0a53jc637e166957892d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> <56a297000902170559t4f0b0a53jc637e166957892d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902171406.n1HE6b1N016793@poseidon.afrc.af.mil> There are rumors the Maloofs are REALLY cash strapped - not only in their NBA holding, but also in the other real estate/casino interests they currently have. It wouldn't surprise me as a minor liquidity deal (with more to follow) for perhaps a pending sale of that franchise????? PSR PATRICK S. RYAN, Lt Col, USAFR Director, Communications & Information 622d RSG/A6 1364 Chennault Circle Dobbins ARB, GA 30069-4904 Comm: 678-655-3172 DSN: 625-3172 -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:00 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell My guess is it's the "cash considerations". The Kings get free money, the C's don't have to pay as much Luxury tax. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Right now it just seems they are doing the C's a big favor which I find a little hard to swallow. They didn't have to dump the 2nd round pick as they're not obligated to sign whoever they pick in that spot anyhow. Gotta assume this was all cash motivated and the Kings must be feeling a $$ pinch. > No matter what, I would expect Sam to be hired on as an asst for the balance of the season once the Kings waive him. Bigger question is what are the rest of the moves? Who's coming in? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Adam Patterson > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM > To: Celtics Mailing List > Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 > > > Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > By Chad Ford > ESPN.com > > > The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. > > Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. > > The > deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's > luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it > as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source > says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player > to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 > players on their current roster. > > Cassell hasn't played a game for > the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in > the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with > Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. > > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 14:43:11 2009 From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:43:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell References: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> <56a297000902170559t4f0b0a53jc637e166957892d0@mail.gmail.com> <200902171406.n1HE6b1N016793@poseidon.afrc.af.mil> Message-ID: <551217.46986.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It opens a roster spot for us and reduces the increase in the lux tax we're already paying when we bring someone in.? Question is, who? ________________________________ From: "Patrick.Ryan at dobbins.af.mil" To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:06:30 AM Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell There are rumors the Maloofs are REALLY cash strapped - not only in their NBA holding, but also in the other real estate/casino interests they currently have. It wouldn't surprise me as a minor liquidity deal (with more to follow) for perhaps a pending sale of that franchise????? PSR PATRICK S. RYAN, Lt Col, USAFR Director, Communications & Information 622d RSG/A6 1364 Chennault Circle Dobbins ARB, GA 30069-4904 Comm: 678-655-3172 DSN: 625-3172 -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:00 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell My guess is it's the "cash considerations". The Kings get free money, the C's don't have to pay as much Luxury tax. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Right now it just seems they are doing the C's a big favor which I find a little hard to swallow. They didn't have to dump the 2nd round pick as they're not obligated to sign whoever they pick in that spot anyhow. Gotta assume this was all cash motivated and the Kings must be feeling a $$ pinch. > No matter what, I would expect Sam to be hired on as an asst for the balance of the season once the Kings waive him. Bigger question is what are the rest of the moves? Who's coming in? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Adam Patterson > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM > To: Celtics Mailing List > Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 > > > Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > By Chad Ford > ESPN.com > > > The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. > > Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. > > The > deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's > luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it > as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source > says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player > to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 > players on their current roster. > > Cassell hasn't played a game for > the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in > the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with > Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. > > > >? ? ? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023).? For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023).? For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Tue Feb 17 16:15:36 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:15:36 EST Subject: Source: Kings to acquire Cassell Message-ID: Source: Kings to acquire Cassell By Chad Ford ESPN.com The _Sacramento Kings_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sac) agreed in principle to a deal with the _Boston Celtics_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos) on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send _Sam Cassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=138) and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. The deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 players on their current roster. Cassell hasn't played a game for the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 17 20:48:35 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:48:35 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> References: <195180.78404.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <37451F909D962F4684FE4127C64208A878B35F@invsfoxxchpub01> Message-ID: <0KF80004K9SZQZ69@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> At 08:55 AM 2/17/2009, Belanger, Roger wrote: >Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I >mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Can't be a big pile because a) there's a $3MM limit on cash in any deal and b) the Kings are also over the cap so the usual matching rules apply, meaning they can't even get all the rest of that $3MM over Sam's salary. BUT they also have some trade exceptions that they can use to increase the amount of cash they get back, so if they're really that cash strapped, this may look like the best use of those exceptions vs just letting them expire - they get cash instead of having to take on more salary because the Cs are that rare team who want that roster spot more than the player qua player enough to be worth paying someone to take him. Kim From pdbauer at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 21:22:05 2009 From: pdbauer at yahoo.com (Paul Bauer) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:22:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sam Traded Message-ID: <446726.95160.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sam traded to the Kings for a conditional 2015 2nd round draft pick.? Could this be opening up a spot for another trade? From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Feb 17 21:44:59 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:44:59 -0500 Subject: Sam Traded In-Reply-To: <446726.95160.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <446726.95160.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KF800J7JCEZSL9G@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> At 04:22 PM 2/17/2009, Paul Bauer wrote: >Sam traded to the Kings for a conditional 2015 2nd round draft >pick. Could this be opening up a spot for another trade? No, because it does absolutely nothing to alleviate another trade unless it's 2 for 1 so we need an extra roster spot. It's an opening for a FA signing. Kim From BDodgers at aol.com Tue Feb 17 22:13:07 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:13:07 EST Subject: Thunder get Chandler from Hornets Message-ID: Thunder get Chandler from Hornets By Marc Stein ESPN.com The _New Orleans Hornets_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nor) and _Oklahoma City Thunder_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=okc) have completed a deal that sends center _Tyson Chandler_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984) to the Thunder. The Hornets are 10 games over .500 with Tyson Chandler and just a .500 team without him. The Hornets received forwards _Joe Smith_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788) and _Chris Wilcox_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1731) in exchange for their best interior defender. The Hornets also received the draft rights to DeVon Hardin, who was selected No. 50 overall by the Thunder in the 2008 draft. The Hornets play Tuesday night against the Thunder in Oklahoma City but the players involved in the trade are not expected to participate in the game. ESPN.com reported early Monday that the Hornets -- who have been looking to move Chandler mostly for financial reasons -- were in talks with the Thunder on a trade that would net the expiring contracts of Smith and Wilcox. Thunder general manager Sam Presti is a long-time admirer of Chandler dating to his time with the _San Antonio Spurs_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas) . The Thunder also possess numerous draft picks to sweeten trade packages -- including five first-round picks in the next two drafts -- but Presti was able to land an accomplished center to complement his promising young trio of _Kevin Durant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3202) , _Russell Westbrook_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3468) and _Jeff Green_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3209) without surrendering any major draft considerations. With a payroll at nearly $67 million this season and scheduled to reach almost $77 million next season, New Orleans felt it had to part with Chandler before Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline regardless, even though dealing away the 26-year-old almost certainly takes the Hornets out of serious playoff contention in the West. The Hornets were widely projected as a dark-horse title contender entering the season but hit the All-Star break as the No. 6 team in the West at 30-20 after a variety of injuries and struggles to cope with raised expectations. Chandler has been bothered all season by foot troubles and is averaging just 8.8 points and 8.3 rebounds, compared to 11.8 points and 11.7 rebounds last season. With the Hornets unable to generate trade interest in _Peja Stojakovic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=813) and unwilling to part with either _Chris Paul_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) or _David West_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2177) , New Orleans elected to take this deal to erase Chandler's $12.3 million salary next season from its payroll. Chandler has the right to become a free agent after the 2009-10 season in the unlikely event that he chooses to walk away from his $13.2 million salary in 2010-11. At the Hornets' Tuesday morning shootaround in Oklahoma City, West told the New Orleans Times Picayune that he was hoping his team would resist the trade interest in Chandler. "I don't know if that's somebody we can afford to lose,'' West told the newspaper. "So I'm not sold on that idea. You just don't find a 7-foot-1 athlete like that and he's the only 7-footer we have. Especially if we're planning on making a run into the playoffs, we're going to need size to compete with Portland, San Antonio and the Lakers. I'm not sure that would help us.'' Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From BDodgers at aol.com Tue Feb 17 22:13:07 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:13:07 EST Subject: Sources: Nets, Rockets talk trade Message-ID: Sources: Nets, Rockets talk trade By Chad Ford ESPN.com The Rockets and _New Jersey Nets_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn) meet on the court Tuesday night in Houston. Will they be swapping more than baskets? The two teams have exchanged _Vince Carter_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136) trade proposals over the past few days, league sources told ESPN.com Tuesday. Currently the teams are haggling over what the Nets will get in return for Carter. Sources say the Rockets have been pushing a trade that sends _Tracy McGrady_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) to the Nets for Carter and _Trenton Hassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=998) . However, the Nets are balking at taking back McGrady's contract. McGrady is slated to make $22 million during the 2009-10 season. However, McGrady's contract comes off the books in the summer of 2010. The deal would save the Nets roughly $21 million over the life of Carter's contract. The Nets would then have around $30 million in cap room to use in a stellar free-agent market. Sources say the Nets are also concerned about McGrady's health. McGrady has already missed 18 games this year. The Houston Chronicle reported on Tuesday that McGrady missed Monday's practice and will not play against the Nets as he prepares to seek more opinions on his problematic left knee. The Nets have countered with a proposal that would send Carter and _Josh Boone_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2990) to the Nets for a combination of _Ron Artest_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=25) , _Shane Battier_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=976) , _Luther Head_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2763) and _Carl Landry_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3217) . The Nets proposal is both financially and talent related. The contracts of Artest and Head expire this summer, clearing around $8 million off the team's cap in the summer of 2009. Sources say the team is looking for immediate cap relief in any deal for Carter. However, management doesn't want to completely gut the team and believes that Battier and Landry could play important roles in the future. At this point sources say that the ball is in the Rockets' court. As of Tuesday afternoon, the Rockets were still mulling over the Nets' proposal. While the Rockets have strong interest in Carter, they may be reluctant to take on the remaining two years and $37 million left on his contract if they can't move McGrady as part of the transaction. They would also lose two valuable pieces for them in Battier and Landry. Is Carter good enough to make up for their losses? The Rockets aren't the only team the Nets have spoken with concerning Carter. The _Dallas Mavericks_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) , _San Antonio Spurs_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas) and _Cleveland Cavaliers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cle) have all shown interest, though it sounds like the Rockets deal has the highest probability of happening. The Rockets have been shopping McGrady hard over the past month to a number of teams but have struggled to find takers given his injury history and contract. Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Feb 17 22:30:19 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:30:19 -0800 Subject: Sam Traded In-Reply-To: <0KF800J7JCEZSL9G@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> References: <446726.95160.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0KF800J7JCEZSL9G@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <63F34AB3-0FC1-487B-B169-52302F326CF7@verizon.net> Sam 's buddy Robert horry? On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Kim Malo wrote: > At 04:22 PM 2/17/2009, Paul Bauer wrote: >> Sam traded to the Kings for a conditional 2015 2nd round draft >> pick. Could this be opening up a spot for another trade? > > No, because it does absolutely nothing to alleviate another trade > unless it's 2 for 1 so we need an extra roster spot. It's an opening > for a FA signing. > Kim > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Wed Feb 18 02:44:33 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:44:33 EST Subject: Cavs eye Jamison as deadline nears Message-ID: Ian Thomsen > INSIDE THE NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/ian_thomsen/archive/) Cavs eye Jamison as deadline nears Story Highlights The Cavs have talked to the Wizards about a trade for Antawn Jamison The Wizards would get payroll relief if they traded the two-time All-Star The Blazers are interested in Bobcats forward Gerald Wallace With _Amar'e Stoudemire_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3607/index.html) unlikely to be dealt before Thursday's trading deadline, the next-biggest thing is being attempted by the _Cleveland Cavaliers_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/cavaliers) -- a surprise move at acquiring two-time All-Star forward _Antawn Jamison_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3247) from the _Washington Wizards_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/wizards) . A deal for Jamison is far from being completed, according to league sources who described the Wizards as reluctant to move a team leader. The sources considered the proposal a sign that the Cavaliers have become more aggressive in trying to improve at the deadline for a title push this spring. The Cavaliers have talked to the Wizards about offering _Wally Szczerbiak_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3329) 's expiring $13.8 million salary as payroll relief for the 32-year-old Jamison, who is on the books for $50 million through 2011-12. Jamison is averaging 21.4 points and 9.1 rebounds this season, and he would be a lethal scoring threat off the bench for Cleveland in an anticipated conference final against the defending champion _Boston Celtics_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/celtics) . A move like this -- a championship contender adding a scorer and rebounder without touching the top seven players in its rotation -- would be the closest thing to a blockbuster in this year's trading-deadline market. Jamison would put enormous pressure on the Celtics, whose front line has already been challenged by the departures of _James Posey_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3341) and P.J. Brown. "If Cleveland can get Jamison, that will be a home run,'' said an Eastern Conference executive with knowledge of the talks. "Jamison would give them a big boost -- he can finish games with them, and he's a slasher who will get more open shots playing with _LeBron_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3704/index.html) . I think that would clinch [the NBA Finals] for them. Boston would have a tough time with them.'' To bring the salaries within 125 percent of each other, Cleveland would have to take on one or more additional players in exchange for Szczerbiak's expiring $13.8 million -- an expensive proposition for the Cavaliers, who would already be paying the luxury tax on Jamison's salary next season. By clearing salary, the Wizards would position themselves to relaunch next season around their high lottery pick in this draft in addition to a healthy (or so they hope) _Gilbert Arenas_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3540) and _Caron Butler_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3608) , who are both younger than 29. But in the midst of a 11-42 season, the Wizards appear disinclined to move Jamison, upon whom they are counting to lead them back into the playoffs next season. Other talks that emerged Tuesday included interest from the _Portland Trail Blazers_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/trail_blazers) in acquiring small forward _Gerald Wallace_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3533) from the _Charlotte Bobcats_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/bobcats) . The Blazers would package the expiring $12.7 million salary of _Raef LaFrentz_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3246) , and a third team could be involved. Mark this as another sign that the Blazers are investigating all opportunities. Also, there has been renewed interest around the league in acquiring _Richard Jefferson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3523) from the _Milwaukee Bucks_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/bucks) , who may be forced to unload salary to avoid the luxury tax. Several teams have shown interest, though the _Trail Blazers_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/trail_blazers) appear to have dropped out of the bidding. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From BDodgers at aol.com Wed Feb 18 02:47:58 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:47:58 EST Subject: The shelf life of expiring contracts Message-ID: Steve Aschburner > INSIDE THE NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/steve_aschburner/archive/) The shelf life of expiring contracts Story Highlights Expiring contracts have taken on a life of their own -- especially this time of year The appeal of expiring deals helps shape the trade-deadline marketplace Raef LaFrentz has fallen off the radar as a player, but his contract is valuable So I was on the phone with my 83-year-old godmother who lives in Wrigleyville, in a brownstone on Chicago's North Side, and in between chatter about her bunions and black-sheep Cousin Ernie, she comes at me with this: "You think the Bulls are going to make something happen at the trade deadline with _Larry Hughes_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3251) , _Tyrus Thomas_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4132) or _Drew Gooden_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3602) 's $7.2 million expiring contract?'' Well, almost. Major League Baseball decades ago so popularized the term "player to be named later,'' it would crop up in Johnny Carson monologues. Pro sports' wheelers and dealers across the board made us familiar with the notion of future considerations. But it was the NBA, first in among the various leagues on the idea of a salary cap, that introduced the concept of "expiring contracts'' into our vernacular. To the point that an octogenarian widow whose tastes run to Jerry Vale and Dr. Phil just might, might, know something about it. Expiring contracts are all the rage these days. Without them, we wouldn't have much of a clamor at the NBA trading deadline or much of an offseason at all. Every player eventually has an expiring contract but these things have taken on such lives of their own, if often doesn't seem that every expiring contract actually has a player attached. "It's kind of interesting the way you're describing that,'' Bucks general manager John Hammond said Monday. "I've been in the NBA for almost 20 years and 'expiring contract' has always been part of the vernacular. But in today's age, it's kind of the whole economic landscape that now it's even become more common with the everyday sports fan. Because everyone's concerned about the dollar, and the dollars being spent by their teams.'' Hammond was one of several NBA GMs who took time, barely 72 hours before Thursday's 3 p.m. ET deadline, to talk about expiring contracts and how their appeal shapes not only the trade marketplace but also fans' relationships with teams, teams' relationships with their players and players' own internal voices. Expiring contracts, first of all, are exactly what they sound like: a deal for a player's services that is about to lapse. Their value in a salary-capped sport is simple: When a player making $7 million a year comes to the end of his contract, that amount comes off his team's cap number. That can drop the club below the league's soft payroll limit ($58.68 million for this season), giving it flexibility to acquire other players in trade or free agency. Or better yet, in the NBA it can lessen or eliminates a team's luxury-tax obligation by moving it below or closer to the tax threshold ($71.15 million), which acts as a hard cap by imposing a dollar-for-dollar surcharge above that amount. The early salivating over the 2010 free-agent class (which could include _LeBron James_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3704) , _Dwyane Wade_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3708) and _Chris Bosh_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3707) ) is an obvious reason for teams to stash cash. Even more compelling, if not nearly as sexy, is the current economy, the pinch many owners have felt in their non-NBA investments and the chilly times anticipated for 2009-10 ticket sales and sponsorship renewals. It's not for nothing, for instance, that the NBA is about to borrow $175 million to assist 15 teams that are in need of a cash infusion, as the Sports Business Journal reported Monday. In an industry in which only one of 30 organizations truly wins, 29 of them can hit summer feeling like they're wasting money. Especially when the ink turns red. To fans, freeing up $8 million of cap space to dangle in front of a free-agent shooting guard makes for great offseason speculation. To an owner, saving $16 million in pay and taxes when that $8 million man comes off his payroll is just good business. And if his GM acquired him for another guy owed $27 million for an additional three years, the move can be a no-brainer. "What we're dealing with now, it's a little sign of the times,'' Mavericks president Donn Nelson said. "There's a little belt-tightening that's going on all over the country. People can relate to it. Around the water cooler or the breakfast table, your average fan is becoming more savvy.'' Here are a few finer points, then, to expiring contracts that the newly savvy might or might not know: -- A player never is not a contract. But a contract sometimes is not much of a player. In a perfect world, a team would round up the 12 players it felt were the most talented and productive available, and play each game as if it were its last with but one goal -- a championship -- and no awareness of future seasons or financial pressures. The NBA, alas, is anything but perfect. "I was a coach for a lot of years, and some teams I was with, you basically coached the players who were assigned to you,'' Nelson said. "A coach knows players cost money, but if it's not coming out your back pocket, you're just going to coach the talent. From a management perspective, you don't really think of a player without attaching some dollar value there. The first things you have to be able to tell your owner is, 'This player is going to provide us X and he's going to cost us Y.' Talent has a price. It's just hard for me to separate it.'' Bottom line? The bottom line. Every team has two, three or four players near the end of its bench or 15-man roster who provide hardly any X at all, but every GM and owner knows precisely how much Y they cost. Those guys often are where the expiring contracts reside; lots of them sit behind their benches in suits. They're heroes on the balance sheet rather than in the box score. -- Contracts typically increase, while skills typically decrease. This explains the disconnect with most of the veterans you'll hear cited for their lapsing deals. A guy in his prime simply is heading into free agency. It's the player whose game has gone south, however slightly, as his salary heads north who ends up with the surgically attached appendage "expiring contract.'' For example, when _Allen Iverson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3094) , at age 29, was an All-NBA first-team selection in 2004-05, averaging 30.7 points and 7.9 assists, you never heard much about his $14.6 million salary, except maybe for the money still to be paid on the back end of his long-term deal. But when Iverson is 33, averaging 18.2 points and 5.1 assists and pulling down $21.9 million -- never mind the pound-for-pound or inch-for-inch accolades anymore -- he is an expiring contract. This also explains why players who seemed to drop off the radar a while back -- _Raef LaFrentz_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3246) , _Rasho Nesterovic_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3260) , _Eric Snow_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3045) , _Malik Rose_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3134) -- come roaring back into the spotlight of trade reports. It's less a matter of, "Oh, is he still in the league?'' than "Oh, is he still getting paid?'' -- Players react to their expiring contracts. For better or worse. The guys who sit there in suits have it the worst. They're getting paid, of course, with lavish salaries that folks sitting a few feet away can only dream about. But they're plopped there in street clothes, their athletic careers possibly over or at least slipping away. And unless they fuss or otherwise behave unprofessionally enough to leverage a buyout (the failed _Stephon Marbury_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3099) strategy), they still have to show up. Still have to do their work behind the closed doors of the practice gym. Still hear their names bandied about for reasons that have little to do with basketball. It's got to affect a fella, doesn't it? "Of course it does. Of course it does,'' Hammond said. "I always felt there were many things the average Joe could relate to, and that's one of them. Most people don't even have a contract in their jobs. When I was coaching in this league, I had expiring contracts. I always wanted to do the best job I could do, I always wanted to do my very best for the team. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking about myself: 'What about me, what about my family?' I can't believe it's any different for players.'' That explains the dark clouds that can gather over the players whose salaries trump their skills. It can become awkward for all involved. "You get in protection mode,'' Hammond said. "It's human nature. Just like any of us, when you're backed into a corner, you come out and fight a little harder.'' Or not. Sometimes you start to think of yourself, as a player, the way your team and the others think of you. Sometimes you focus only on the future, mentally moving on from the present. "If your name is being thrown around a lot,'' Nelson said, "you can't tell me that player goes to work every day with the same type of passion, and throwing himself into it fully, and that not having an effect.'' -- You might trade for a contract but wind up with a player. The "expiring contract'' phenomenon generally attaches to a player too old, broken down or specifically injured to have much upside anymore. But when one of them occasionally rises from the grave of salary-capology, it can seem like a resurrection. Consider _Theo Ratliff_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3020) , who was known as "Theo Ratliff's expiring contract'' for so long that it was a real pinch-me moment when he appeared in each of his 16 games over the final six weeks of last season for Detroit. Or the 24 he has played, at age 35, this season with Philadelphia. The combined 40 is more than Ratliff logged across two years, from spring 2006 to March 2008. He already had been traded twice at least partly for the $11.6 million that would come off the cap of the team paying him at the end of 2007-08. Portland sent him to Boston in June 2006, the Celtics sent him to Minnesota in the _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3007) package in July 2007. It would have been three times, except that the Timberwolves wanted cap relief more than they wanted contributing players with longer-term deals. Minnesota used the 6-10 center in 10 games before a knee injury sidelined him, then waived him after last year's trading deadline. "When we got Theo, we expected him to come in and play,'' Minnesota assistant general manager _Fred Hoiberg_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3054) said. "Unfortunately for us, he got hurt. By the time he got back, we were looking at different things. If you look at that preseason, though, he and Al [Jefferson] played very well together. "You have to monitor every situation differently. If a team has a guy who it feels isn't part of its future, you still want to see what he has and whether he can be a part of your future.'' -- "Expiring contract'' is a little bit of truth in advertising. Look, there are enough bull feathers tossed around the NBA on so many other fronts. Refs don't make superstar calls. Guaranteed contracts don't sap motivation. And so on. At least when a player is known for his expiring contract, no one is trying to fool anyone into thinking he's valued as the contributor he once was. No one has to pretend that Portland's LaFrentz is that key pick-and-pop guy who averaged double figures through his first four seasons in the league; he is $12.7 million of pending cap relief, period. Same with New York's Rose, long past his days as a "glue'' guy for the championship-caliber Spurs but still pulling down $7.6 million. Not to pick on those guys, by the way. There are a lot of "expiring contract'' examples like that and I could go on, but my godmother is on the phone again, calling with a question about _Monta Ellis_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3966) ' base-year compensation. Steve Aschburner covered the Minnesota Timberwolves and the NBA for 13 seasons for the Minneapolis Star Tribune. He has served as president or vice president of the Professional Basketball Writers Association since 2005. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 02:56:10 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:56:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <0KF80004K9SZQZ69@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <278175.23691.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Robert Horry soon to be arriving? ? ? --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Kim Malo wrote: From: Kim Malo Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:48 PM At 08:55 AM 2/17/2009, Belanger, Roger wrote: > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Can't be a big pile because a) there's a $3MM limit on cash in any deal and b) the Kings are also over the cap so the usual matching rules apply, meaning they can't even get all the rest of that $3MM over Sam's salary. BUT they also have some trade exceptions that they can use to increase the amount of cash they get back, so if they're really that cash strapped, this may look like the best use of those exceptions vs just letting them expire - they get cash instead of having to take on more salary because the Cs are that rare team who want that roster spot more than the player qua player enough to be worth paying someone to take him. Kim _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 03:08:18 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:08:18 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <278175.23691.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <0KF80004K9SZQZ69@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> <278175.23691.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KF80096ARDUDS13@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Saw you suggest it the first time and still hope not. At his age basically would be signed just to be Big Shot Bob and that's the least of the needs we have for a backup big man. Sorry, John, hoping Danny still holds grudge over the towel. We need front court backup help with real size more than we need another guard / wing player but don't see where Horry does much for us. Mind you, I do realize, it's not like there are a lot of other options worth having out there. Kim At 09:56 PM 2/17/2009, John Lyell wrote: >Robert Horry soon to be arriving? > > >--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Kim Malo wrote: > >From: Kim Malo >Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell >To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" >Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:48 PM > >At 08:55 AM 2/17/2009, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, >unless they are gettting a big pile of money. > >Can't be a big pile because a) there's a $3MM limit on cash in any deal >and b) the Kings are also over the cap so the usual matching rules apply, >meaning they can't even get all the rest of that $3MM over Sam's salary. >BUT they also have some trade exceptions that they can use to increase the >amount of cash they get back, so if they're really that cash strapped, this >may look like the best use of those exceptions vs just letting them expire - >they get cash instead of having to take on more salary because the Cs are that >rare team who want that roster spot more than the player qua player >enough to be >worth paying someone to take him. From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 03:55:23 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:55:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <0KF80096ARDUDS13@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <657017.60506.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Horry replaces posey. Seems like they are possibly waiting for a Joe smith, Marbury, or similar player to be released ? ? --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Kim Malo wrote: From: Kim Malo Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 7:08 PM Saw you suggest it the first time and still hope not. At his age basically would be signed just to be Big Shot Bob and that's the least of the needs we have for a backup big man. Sorry, John, hoping Danny still holds grudge over the towel. We need front court backup help with real size more than we need another guard / wing player but don't see where Horry does much for us. Mind you, I do realize, it's not like there are a lot of other options worth having out there. Kim At 09:56 PM 2/17/2009, John Lyell wrote: >Robert Horry soon to be arriving? > > >--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Kim Malo wrote: > >From: Kim Malo >Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell >To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" >Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:48 PM > >At 08:55 AM 2/17/2009, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, >unless they are gettting a big pile of money. > >Can't be a big pile because a) there's a $3MM limit on cash in any deal >and b) the Kings are also over the cap so the usual matching rules apply, >meaning they can't even get all the rest of that $3MM over Sam's salary. >BUT they also have some trade exceptions that they can use to increase the >amount of cash they get back, so if they're really that cash strapped, this >may look like the best use of those exceptions vs just letting them expire - >they get cash instead of having to take on more salary because the Cs are that >rare team who want that roster spot more than the player qua player >enough to be >worth paying someone to take him. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 04:39:30 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:39:30 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <657017.60506.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <0KF80096ARDUDS13@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> <657017.60506.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KF800IGJVLUFDRH@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> At 10:55 PM 2/17/2009, John Lyell wrote: >Horry replaces posey. Yes, I already understood that idea as far as clutch outside shots go, that's why I mentioned Big Shot Bob. But that's really the only part of Posey he replaces at this point and I don't think it's the most important lack - we have other guys willing and able to make a clutch shot. Don't forget he's 38 years old, and while he did play some defense, it wasn't and certainly isn't now the inside / outside versatility Posey offered. And at 6'10" he's bigger than our existing big men backups but not in the sense of capital S size to make up for the decreasing mobility with age. >Seems like they are possibly waiting for a Joe smith, Marbury, or >similar player to be released Probably, although you could be right about Horry. However, Smith got dealt, so likely not him. Look, Horry 5 years ago would be my preference over Smith now, but it's not Horry 5 years ago or even a Horry who's been playing or even been on a team to be participating in practice this year. And at his age that sort of rust matters even more. While I'm just not a huge fan of the whole Marbury thing. I'm not screaming he's a cancer and all that, I think our leadership can keep that under control, I just don't think he makes us as much better as proponents assume - he's an increase in talent but that's not the same thing as making us, the team, better, he's never been a defensive player (and yes, I know the whole you can say the same about Ray thing, but different personalities / reasons for that [Marbury is bone selfish, Ray was always encouraged to save his energy for offense] while just because one person changed, it doesn't guarantee another will any more than one failure guarantees another), and it's not the biggest need, especially if he's happier playing more of a shoot first PG role as seemed to be the case the past few years and / or my gut feeling that he just doesn't make us the team that much better vs just increasing talent is accurate. It's a fantasy league move. So maybe you convinced me. Thinking more about Marbury, maybe Horry looks better : ) Kim From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Feb 18 09:13:46 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:13:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell References: Message-ID: <519032.72947.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> You're right on the money about the Kings, there was a very surprising report about it on Saturday: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-177/The-NBA-Story-No-One-s-Talking-About.html As for the free roster spot, I'm thinking it is most likely Marbury. With Tony Allen being unreliable (in more ways than one) and House not a very good ball handler, it would be wise to replace Cassell with another guard. As much as our frontcourt also needs to be improved, it looks like it might?be set according to Danny: ? ?We?re looking. We?re always looking,? said Ainge. ?But at the same time, I like our team. Even though I don?t think it?s perfect, I like it a lot. And I think Leon (Powe) and Baby (Glen Davis) are both significantly improved from last year and will be even more going into the playoffs. Our need there is not as great.? ________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:06:30 -0500 From: Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell To: Message-ID: <200902171406.n1HE6b1N016793 at poseidon.afrc.af.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are rumors the Maloofs are REALLY cash strapped - not only in their NBA holding, but also in the other real estate/casino interests they currently have. It wouldn't surprise me as a minor liquidity deal (with more to follow) for perhaps a pending sale of that franchise????? PSR PATRICK S. RYAN, Lt Col, USAFR Director, Communications & Information 622d RSG/A6 1364 Chennault Circle Dobbins ARB, GA 30069-4904 Comm: 678-655-3172 DSN: 625-3172 -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:00 AM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell My guess is it's the "cash considerations". The Kings get free money, the C's don't have to pay as much Luxury tax. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, unless they are gettting a big pile of money. Right now it just seems they are doing the C's a big favor which I find a little hard to swallow. They didn't have to dump the 2nd round pick as they're not obligated to sign whoever they pick in that spot anyhow. Gotta assume this was all cash motivated and the Kings must be feeling a $$ pinch. > No matter what, I would expect Sam to be hired on as an asst for the balance of the season once the Kings waive him. Bigger question is what are the rest of the moves? Who's coming in? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Adam Patterson > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM > To: Celtics Mailing List > Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3912402 > > > Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > By Chad Ford > ESPN.com > > > The Sacramento Kings agreed in principle to a deal with the Boston Celtics on Monday night, a league source told ESPN.com. The Celtics will send Sam Cassell and cash to the Kings for a future second-round pick. > > Barring any changes overnight, the deal is expected to be finalized Tuesday afternoon with the league office. > > The > deal helps the Celtics by removing Cassell's salary from the team's > luxury-tax computations. The Kings give up virtually nothing to do it > as the pick is heavily protected. Furthermore, another league source > says the deal could pave the way for the Celtics to add another player > to their roster prior to the playoffs. The Celtics had a maximum of 15 > players on their current roster. > > Cassell hasn't played a game for > the Celtics this season, but he's been an important veteran voice in > the locker room. While it's unclear what the Kings will do with > Cassell, most likely they'll waive him. > > > >? ? ? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023).? For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > > * Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023).? For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > > If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest, Vol 17, Issue 31 *************************************************************** Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From jaims at pldtdsl.net Wed Feb 18 12:19:40 2009 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:19:40 +0800 Subject: Anybody heard anything about this? In-Reply-To: <519032.72947.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgfqBQBPDPb6NUr7D8.0uEo5nYcB?slug=aw-t radebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns Wojnarowski: The Boston Celtics reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats about trading for proven playoff performer Raja Bell, a league source said. So far, the Celtics don't have anything in return that appeals to Charlotte. The Bobcats are telling people that they have a possible two-for-one trade percolating and need to keep a hold on a roster spot. Boston lost guard Tony Allen to thumb surgery on Tuesday, and he could be out until the playoffs. For months, the Celtics have unsuccessfully tried to trade 2008 first-round pick J.R. Giddens for a draft choice. From bosox18 at charter.net Wed Feb 18 13:26:57 2009 From: bosox18 at charter.net (bosox18 at charter.net) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 5:26:57 -0800 Subject: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell In-Reply-To: <278175.23691.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090218082657.6A8JW.943472.root@mp12> Please stop saying that. Posey is still a productive player; Horry has absolutely nothing left to give. Steve O ---- John Lyell wrote: > Robert Horry soon to be arriving? > ? > ? > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Kim Malo wrote: > > From: Kim Malo > Subject: RE: ESPN - Source: Kings agree to deal for Cassell > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:48 PM > > At 08:55 AM 2/17/2009, Belanger, Roger wrote: > > > Very curious.... what is the motivation for the Kings to do this? I mean, > unless they are gettting a big pile of money. > > Can't be a big pile because a) there's a $3MM limit on cash in any deal > and b) the Kings are also over the cap so the usual matching rules apply, > meaning they can't even get all the rest of that $3MM over Sam's salary. > BUT they also have some trade exceptions that they can use to increase the > amount of cash they get back, so if they're really that cash strapped, this > may look like the best use of those exceptions vs just letting them expire - > they get cash instead of having to take on more salary because the Cs are that > rare team who want that roster spot more than the player qua player enough to be > worth paying someone to take him. > > Kim > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From noah.evans at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 13:38:51 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:38:51 +0900 Subject: Anybody heard anything about this? In-Reply-To: References: <519032.72947.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902180538t2aeba80ja9513c08cd09cb9e@mail.gmail.com> I would *love* bell. On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jaims wrote: > http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgfqBQBPDPb6NUr7D8.0uEo5nYcB?slug=aw-t > radebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns > > Wojnarowski: > > The Boston Celtics reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats about trading > for proven playoff performer Raja Bell, a league source said. So far, > the Celtics don't have anything in return that appeals to Charlotte. > > The Bobcats are telling people that they have a possible two-for-one > trade percolating and need to keep a hold on a roster spot. > > Boston lost guard Tony Allen to thumb surgery on Tuesday, and he could > be out until the playoffs. For months, the Celtics have unsuccessfully > tried to trade 2008 first-round pick J.R. Giddens for a draft choice. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 20:50:31 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:50:31 -0500 Subject: Anybody heard anything about this? In-Reply-To: <56a297000902180538t2aeba80ja9513c08cd09cb9e@mail.gmail.com > References: <519032.72947.qm@web63804.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <56a297000902180538t2aeba80ja9513c08cd09cb9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KFA00MQF4K9Q6NC@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net> Yeah, I've got to admit that in the absence of a worthwhile big man out there and with Tony, despite his faults, probably still our best wing defender and out for a wihle, I like that move too. He's actually more of a real Posey replacement, except for the clutch 3s. Kim At 08:38 AM 2/18/2009, Noah Evans wrote: >I would *love* bell. > >On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jaims wrote: > > > http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgfqBQBPDPb6NUr7D8.0uEo5nYcB?slug=aw-t > > radebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns > > > > Wojnarowski: > > > > The Boston Celtics reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats about trading > > for proven playoff performer Raja Bell, a league source said. So far, > > the Celtics don't have anything in return that appeals to Charlotte. > > > > The Bobcats are telling people that they have a possible two-for-one > > trade percolating and need to keep a hold on a roster spot. > > > > Boston lost guard Tony Allen to thumb surgery on Tuesday, and he could > > be out until the playoffs. For months, the Celtics have unsuccessfully > > tried to trade 2008 first-round pick J.R. Giddens for a draft choice. From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 21:39:46 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:39:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens? Message-ID: <545822.12499.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> With Sam gone and TA out do the Celts bring up Giddens and actually play him for short mins? I assume there is a minor deal or a waiting period for a cut vet after deadline (Marbury?) but in the meantime I think we will see a lineup similar to what we were seeing when TA was out for awhile earlier with Pruitt and House on the floor together some with RA and Rhondo playing with the second unit also. I would like to see what Giddens could do with some of TAs mins seeing he is a long athletic slasher who can also hit a longish jumper. I think he is capable of playing straight up Defense, though he would probably be lost with the C's regular defensive rotations which I think is Docs main thought against using him even in short mins. Also would be nice to (get ready, dont laugh) see Scals back healthy in the lineup, of all the options I am hearing being discussed for a longer defensive forward to spread the floor (Posey Replacement) he to me is a better option. Combine him with what Walker and Giddens project to bring then then the C's should be OK, only problem is that the C's would have to resign themselves to finnish the reg. season behind the Cavs, Lakers and possibly another team to give Walker, Giddens, Gabe and even POB enough mins to make them useful for the playoffs, a tradeoff I dont think Doc will willingly let happen. Should be interesting few weeks to come. Go C's From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 22:22:31 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:22:31 -0500 Subject: Giddens? In-Reply-To: <545822.12499.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <545822.12499.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KFA00IDT8TKWM25@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> At 04:39 PM 2/18/2009, R Howe wrote: >With Sam gone and TA out do the Celts bring up Giddens and actually >play him for short mins? Why? He was behind Walker in development from the start, there are absolutely no indications that's changed, much less on defense at a pro level (factoring in Tony's loss), and we already have Pruitt, while Sam's departure didn't free up any actual minutes. I don't think the demotion was necessarily giving up on him so much as the only way he's going to really improve is to play a lot more than he will with the big club. In that context, bringing him up is more harmful than beneficial. Kim From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 22:23:51 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:23:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Bulls Make The Best Trade, I Wish The Celtics Could Have Message-ID: <613451.94934.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well, the Bulls just acquired Brad Miller and John Salmons for Drew Gooden and Andres Nocioni. That, really truly is a great deal for them, and the best trade of the season. Both Miller and Salmons would have fit in super well with the Celtics, like in vitro fertilization for Nadya Suleman, LOL. But, unfortunately between Wyc's and Trust Fund Steve's micro-management of Celtics' finances and Danny Ainge's offseasons miscalculations, the Celtics did not have comparable salaries or talent to make a bigger deal with Sacramento. Right now, with the economic downturn forcing teams to move out larger contracts, the Celtics would have greatly benefited from Ainge signing a few free agents in the past to the full MLE, where they could have served this year as trade material. Ray From regmanw6 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 00:00:33 2009 From: regmanw6 at yahoo.com (R Howe) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:00:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens? In-Reply-To: <0KFA00IDT8TKWM25@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <925103.26274.qm@web56703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> My thought on Giddens is that he is more a true SG to occasional SF, whereas Walker a more true SF kind of a Pierce/clone sub (without the range). I do agree though in that the development league/pt is more beneficial to Giddens and I would say walker than sitting on the bench exclusively. Still would like to see what Giddens (short mins) has at this level now halfway through the season. With Tony out and yes you are right Pruitt will gain what loose mins in the backcourt that results, I thought would be a good time to kick the tires on Giddens. Go C's? --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Kim Malo wrote: From: Kim Malo Subject: Re: Giddens? To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:22 PM At 04:39 PM 2/18/2009, R Howe wrote: > With Sam gone and TA out do the Celts bring up Giddens and actually play him for short mins? Why? He was behind Walker in development from the start, there are absolutely no indications that's changed, much less on defense at a pro level (factoring in Tony's loss), and we already have Pruitt, while Sam's departure didn't free up any actual minutes. I don't think the demotion was necessarily giving up on him so much as the only way he's going to really improve is to play a lot more than he will with the big club. In that context, bringing him up is more harmful than beneficial. Kim _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ellie.cutler at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 00:27:22 2009 From: ellie.cutler at yahoo.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:27:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Anybody heard anything about this? In-Reply-To: <56a297000902180538t2aeba80ja9513c08cd09cb9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <259725.60540.qm@web63108.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Yeah, Noah, me too.? Always liked him, and he would really fill the Posey hole. I'm looking forward to seeing Pruitt on the floor freeing House for a rain of 3s.? Gabe has nice length, and the two of them make a good pair size-wise. We'll see what happens... ?-Ellie --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Noah Evans wrote: From: Noah Evans Subject: Re: Anybody heard anything about this? To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:38 AM I would *love* bell. From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 01:43:59 2009 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:43:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: the case for Walker now Message-ID: <264707.74772.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree with the general thrust about Giddens.? He may be our next Tony, with fewer problems & a more cerebral approach to the game (not much of a challenge), but he's not the one to insert now.?? Walker is.? In what we've seen of him, he plays energetic defense and can slash to the bucket; he also can hit the 18 ft. jumper.? With 27 games to go, he could develop into a very usable 8-10 minute bencher who would have to be guarded when on the court.? He brings what others (Tony, Pruitt) could but haven't been doing lately.? ? I'm watching Marquette closely.? While Wes Matthews is one of my picks for a second rounder, soph Jimmy Butler is my student from last year and a 6' 7" two guard.? He has been given sixth and seventh man minutes all year, shows real hesitation and tries hard to fit in without asserting himself.? Lately, he has started to settle in and contribute; I hope he can show more by March.? That's what I wish we would do with our promising youngsters.? Both Davis, as a rookie, and Powe as a soph, played helpful roles last year.? Free Bill Walker! ? Cheers, Gene? (who thinks we will win home court advantage again and not face a seventh game anyway) From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 19 03:24:46 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:24:46 EST Subject: Sources: Bulls, Kings pull off deal Message-ID: Sources: Bulls, Kings pull off deal By Chris Sheridan ESPN.com The _Chicago Bulls_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=chi) and _Sacramento Kings_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sac) have reached tentative agreement on a trade sending _Andres Nocioni_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2456) , _Drew Gooden_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1711) , _Michael Ruffin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=741) and _Cedric Simmons_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3030) to the Kings for _Brad Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=556) and _John Salmons_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1726) , front-office sources said on Wednesday. The Kings would then turn around and ship Ruffin to the _Portland Trail Blazers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=por) for forward _Ike Diogu_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2750) and cash considerations, sources told ESPN's Chris Broussard. One source told ESPN.com that the Bulls players were pulled off the team bus Wednesday afternoon and were told they had been traded. "I've been traded before and the way I look at it is it means somebody wants you," Gooden said, according to the Chicago Tribune. "Sacramento has been interested in me for a couple years, so maybe something can work out long-term there. If not, I'm an unrestricted free agent this summer, so I'm auditioning for other teams." Talks between Sacramento and Chicago moved to an advanced stage this week, as ESPN.com _reported earlier Wednesday_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=TradeTalk-090218) , after the Kings were unsuccessful packaging Miller and Salmons in a deal with New York. The Chicago-Sacramento trade is likely to be finalized later Wednesday, but one source close to the process cautioned that the deal could still be expanded to include additional players. Another source indicated that the Kings had hoped to convince Chicago to accept center _Mikki Moore_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=575) instead of Salmons so Sacramento could trade Salmons in a separate move. The Bulls, though, want Salmons and the Kings did not oppose it because of long-term financial savings they're gaining from the trade. Miller is averaging 11.9 points and 8.0 rebounds per game for the 11-43 Kings. One of the better passing big men in the league, Miller has made two All-Star teams and actually played for the Bulls from 2000-02. This will be the third team for Salmons in his seven-year career. He is averaging a career high 18.3 points per game, well above his career mark of 8.3. The gritty Nocioni has played his entire five-year career with the Bulls, averaging 11.7 points and 5.0 rebounds over that time bouncing between the starting five and the bench. He signed a five-year extension in 2007. Gooden was traded to the Bulls last season in the deal that sent _Ben Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885) to the _Cleveland Cavaliers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cle) . He was averaging 13.1 points and 8.6 rebounds in an injury-plagued year. The number that likely interested the Kings the most, however, is the $7.2 million that will come off their books this summer since he has an expiring contract. Simmons also has an expiring contract, so the Kings basically traded the salaries of Miller and Salmons for Nocioni's. "I enjoyed my time in Chicago," Gooden said, according to the Tribune. "It's a good bunch of guys and great management. They treat players with respect. I just wish we had won more and I had been healthier." The Sacramento Bee reported on its Web site Wednesday that the Kings also offered Miller and Salmons to New Jersey in a deal that would net _Ryan Anderson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3412) , _Stromile Swift_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=829) , _Trenton Hassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=998) and _Eduardo Najera_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=591) . Chicago's ability to land Salmons would deeply disappoint two Southwest Division rivals -- Dallas and San Antonio -- which have been chasing the 29-year-old. Portland and Oklahoma City have also been frequently linked with Salmons. With an offer of _Bruce Bowen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=83) and _Ime Udoka_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=866) , San Antonio viewed Salmons as a far more affordable trade target for its perimeter rotation than _Vince Carter_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136) . New Jersey's Carter has tempted the small-market Spurs for days but can be absorbed by them only in a hugely expensive and complicated deal. The Mavericks have been offering _Jerry Stackhouse_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=802) 's virtual expiring contract ($7 million this season, only $2 million guaranteed next season) to the Kings since this past summer, when Sacramento was shopping _Ron Artest_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=25) . The biggest obstacle for Dallas on a Salmons deal had been the Kings' insistence that the Mavericks -- lacking draft picks to sweeten the deal -- also take back guard _Beno Udrih_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2448) , who has four years and nearly $27 million remaining on his contract after this season. There has been another complication for interested parties: Sources revealed Tuesday that Salmons has a 15 percent trade kicker in his contract that requires the team that acquires him to pay him a bonus of nearly $2 million and add that figure to its payroll. Salmons otherwise would rank as one of the league's better bargains, earning just $5.1 million this season while averaging 18.3 points and shooting 47.2 percent from the field and 41.8 percent on 3-pointers. Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine. ESPN.com's Marc Stein contributed to this report. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From gh18 at juno.com Thu Feb 19 06:45:05 2009 From: gh18 at juno.com (gh18 at juno.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:45:05 GMT Subject: Thunder Rescind Chandler Trade! Good news for Celtics? Message-ID: <20090219.004505.23931.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11637 The Oklahoma City Thunder have rescinded the trade that brought them Tyson Chandler from the New Orleans Hornets . The official word is that Chandler, who has been out nursing an ankle injury, failed his physical upon arrival in Oklahoma City. New Orleans Hornets GM Jeff Bower says the team will "welcome Chandler back with open arms." HOOPSWORLD's Steve Kyler is in New Orleans tonight, with the hope being that we could get some interviews and photos of Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith, the newest members of the Hornets. The two didn't suit up, however, and were not made available to the media pre-game, as had been expected. We now know that the Hornets were waiting for word from OKC that Chandler had passed his physical. It's expected that the Thunder will make a subsequent deal to move their highly-coveted front court players elsewhere, though it seems unlikely they would land a player of Chandler's caliber with so little time left between now and the trade deadline to work out the details. --> 8) { story_font_size = 8; } document.getElementById('story_font').className = 'font-sizer' + story_font_size; } //--> ____________________________________________________________ Find Career Training here. We take Education Seriously. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsCxEgWmitHNih3hrgQgP4KikTGnA2CVaKCmm3i4qXL08tLx6uJpCN/ From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 19 06:53:38 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:53:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic Message-ID: <701961.99468.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218 POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 12:33 a.m. ET Chris Sheridan: A source who has been in the know for years tells me that Joe Smith is keeping his fingers crossed that the Thunder do not find another trade for him now that he's back in Oklahoma City. Smith, the source said, would like to do a buyout and then sign with the Boston Celtics as this season's version of P.J. Brown. (also posted on CelticsBlog) Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From noah.evans at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 06:55:41 2009 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:55:41 +0900 Subject: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic In-Reply-To: <701961.99468.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <701961.99468.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000902182255p110aa50chde0a134a356b168b@mail.gmail.com> If we got Bell from the Bobcats and Smith from the former Sonics I would be very happy about our chances. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218 > > > > POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 12:33 a.m. ET > > Chris Sheridan: A source who has been in the know for years tells me that Joe Smith is keeping his fingers crossed that the Thunder do not find another trade for him now that he's back in Oklahoma City. > > > Smith, the source said, would like to do a buyout and then sign with the Boston Celtics as this season's version of P.J. Brown. > > > (also posted on CelticsBlog) > > > Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 13:53:25 2009 From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:53:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic References: <701961.99468.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <56a297000902182255p110aa50chde0a134a356b168b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25094.626.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I don't think there is any comparison between PJ and Joe Smith.? Smith has always been something of a softee in my book and I don't know if he would be that good a fit.?Of course he wants to come here and get a good shot at a ring, but I don't think he has the intensity level of the guys on this squad. Love Raja Bell if only for the fact that he would give Kobe fits during the Finals. He brings a an 'A' defensive game and defense wins championships. Danny says that all is quiet which probably means he's got a deal up his sleeve.? I'm wondering if the deal isn't with Charlotte?who added another big man to their stable when they picked up Radmanovic.??Maybe a 2 for 3 with?say Bell and Ajinca coming back for Scalabrine, Giddens and POB.? That type of deals saves salary/years for Charlotte, doesn't cost us a whole lot, and leave us with a roster spot for a waiver signee. Both sides win which is the best type of deal. ________________________________ From: Noah Evans To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:55:41 AM Subject: Re: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic If we got Bell from the Bobcats and Smith from the former Sonics I would be very happy about our chances. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218 > > > > POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 12:33 a.m. ET > > Chris Sheridan: A source who has been in the know for years tells me that Joe Smith is keeping his fingers crossed that the Thunder do not find another trade for him now that he's back in Oklahoma City. > > > Smith, the source said, would like to do a buyout and then sign with the Boston Celtics as this season's version of P.J. Brown. > > > (also posted on CelticsBlog) > > >? ? ? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Thu Feb 19 14:26:08 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:26:08 -0800 Subject: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic In-Reply-To: <25094.626.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <701961.99468.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <56a297000902182255p110aa50chde0a134a356b168b@mail.gmail.com> <25094.626.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41D333F1-40F4-468D-ACF0-B5ABA348C3F9@verizon.net> Bell would be nice. A Kid that has impressed me is Hilton Armstrong. He has good height and athleticism and isn't afraid to mix it up. Cleveland is after jamison of villanueva On Feb 19, 2009, at 5:53 AM, asterix ninetynine wrote: > I don't think there is any comparison between PJ and Joe Smith. > Smith has always been something of a softee in my book and I don't > know if he would be that good a fit. Of course he wants to come here > and get a good shot at a ring, but I don't think he has the > intensity level of the guys on this squad. > > Love Raja Bell if only for the fact that he would give Kobe fits > during the Finals. He brings a an 'A' defensive game and defense > wins championships. > > Danny says that all is quiet which probably means he's got a deal up > his sleeve. I'm wondering if the deal isn't with Charlotte who > added another big man to their stable when they picked up > Radmanovic. Maybe a 2 for 3 with say Bell and Ajinca coming back > for Scalabrine, Giddens and POB. That type of deals saves salary/ > years for Charlotte, doesn't cost us a whole lot, and leave us with > a roster spot for a waiver signee. Both sides win which is the best > type of deal. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Noah Evans > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:55:41 AM > Subject: Re: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic > > If we got Bell from the Bobcats and Smith from the former Sonics I > would be very happy about our chances. > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Adam Patterson > wrote: >> From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218 >> >> >> >> POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 12:33 a.m. ET >> >> Chris Sheridan: A source who has been in the know for years tells >> me that Joe Smith is keeping his fingers crossed that the Thunder >> do not find another trade for him now that he's back in Oklahoma >> City. >> >> >> Smith, the source said, would like to do a buyout and then sign >> with the Boston Celtics as this season's version of P.J. Brown. >> >> >> (also posted on CelticsBlog) >> >> >> Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver >> Pro. Find out more >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 19 16:23:20 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:23:20 EST Subject: Thunder reject Chandler; trade off Message-ID: Thunder reject Chandler; trade off By Chris Broussard and Marc Stein ESPN.com _Tyson Chandler_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984) missed the New Orleans Hornets' last 12 games before the All-Star break with a sprained left ankle. But that had nothing to do with why he failed his physical with the _Oklahoma City Thunder_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=okc) and was thus sent back to the Hornets on Wednesday. After examining Chandler's left big toe, Dr. Carlan Yates, Oklahoma City's team physician, determined that the risk of re-injury was too great to give Chandler a clean bill of health. He therefore advised the Thunder to rescind Tuesday's trade that landed them Chandler for _Joe Smith_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788) , _Chris Wilcox_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1731) and the rights to Devon Hardin. "This is absolutely crazy," Chandler said in a telephone conversation Wednesday night. "I'm super shocked. This is nuts." Chandler, 26, was baffled by Yates' ruling in part because Yates performed surgery on Chandler's big left toe in April of 2007 when the Hornets were playing in Oklahoma City. Chandler played 79 games the following season and while he's missed 19 games this season, none have been because of his toe. "He said he doesn't know how long I'll last," Chandler said in reference to Yates. "He told me, 'I have no doubt you can play on it. I'm just saying it could take a turn for the worse if you come down on somebody's foot or hyperextend it or something.'" Chandler was bothered by the toe in last season's playoffs and withdrew from Team USA over the summer. Mike & Mike Chris Broussard explains why the trade including Tyson Chandler was rescinded. Chandler did not pass the Thunder's physical so he's headed back to New Orleans. _More Podcasts ?_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?context=podcast) While Chandler, who said he feels no pain in the toe, was disturbed by the Thunder's decision, his Hornets teammates will undoubtedly be excited by his return. The players, most notably All-Stars _Chris Paul_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) and _David West_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2177) , did not hide their disappointment over management's decision to trade Chandler, especially in a move that was clearly about finances rather than basketball. "I was really disappointed too when I was traded," Chandler said. "I felt like if we were healthy we had a championship team in New Orleans. But I didn't want to sulk so I started to get excited about the new challenge in Oklahoma City. I felt I could help turn that team around." Chandler will meet with New Orleans GM Jeff Bower on Thursday and said he has no ill feelings toward the Hornets, who traded him solely to rid themselves of the two years and $24.6 million remaining on his contract. He laughed when asked if he thought the Hornets might trade him somewhere else before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline. "I'm not going to worry about that," he said. "But if it happens, it happens." Chandler said he initially planned to return from his ankle injury within the next three games because he felt the Hornets were slipping in the standings without him. TrueHoop: Chandler back Rescinding the Hornets-Thunder trade could make for awkward moments in New Orleans and Oklahoma City, Henry Abbott writes. _Story_ (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-204/The-Untrading-of-Tyson-Chandler.html) "But after all this, I'm not rushing back," he said. "I'm not 100 percent yet, so I think its best just to get healthy." Voiding the deal wipes out the long-term financial benefits that prompted New Orleans to make the deal. "We were pleased to add Tyson to the Thunder roster," Thunder general manager Sam Presti said in a statement. "During the course of the physical examination and outside consultations, some questions arose that gave us cause for concern. We felt that this course of action was the best for our organization." Chandler had surgery on his left toe shortly after the 2006-07 season and injured it again in April 2008 in New Orleans' regular-season finale at Dallas. He then re-injured it during the Hornets' second-round series against San Antonio, complaining of "turf toe" after he bent it toe backwards by stepping on _Ime Udoka_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=866) 's foot. Chandler was named as a Team USA alternate in July and invited to a pre-Olympic training camp but had to pull out because of the ongoing toe trouble. Chandler took part in some of the Hornets' practice Monday on the day before he was traded after missing time with the sprained left ankle. Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com on Wednesday night that concerns about the long-term stability of Chandler's toe were sufficient to scare Oklahoma City off. "We welcome Tyson back with open arms," Hornets general manager Jeff Bower said. "We went into this trade to garner more frontcourt depth to add to our team as we continue our push towards the playoffs. We expect Tyson and the rest of our big guys to step up to the challenge." After word of Chandler's imminent return reached Hornets players following their resounding win Wednesday night over Orlando, Paul told reporters: "I'm excited to have T.C. back. I think it will give us a huge lift. Hopefully it will bring us closer together." Presti is known as a longtime admirer of Chandler dating to his days with the _San Antonio Spurs_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas) . So when the Hornets let teams around the league know that Chandler was available  mostly because of owner George Shinn's mandate to reduce a payroll approaching $67 million this season and scheduled to reach nearly $77 million next season -- he pounced. And the trade was widely hailed as a coup for Oklahoma City, given that Presti was able to land an accomplished center to add to his promising young trio of _Kevin Durant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3202) , _Russell Westbrook_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3468) and _Jeff Green_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3209) without surrendering any major draft considerations. The Thunder possess numerous draft picks to sweeten trade packages, including five first-rounders in the next two drafts, but the Hornets' financial straits were such that the expiring contracts of Smith and Wilcox were enough to clinch Chandler's acquisition. With the Hornets unable to generate trade interest in _Peja Stojakovic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=813) and unwilling to part with either Paul or West, New Orleans' only money-saving option was shedding Chandler's $12.3 million salary next season from its books. Chandler has the right to become a free agent after the 2009-10 season in the unlikely event that he chooses to walk away from his $13.2 million salary in 2010-11. The Hornets insisted after the deal that the opportunity to replace Chandler with two dependable veteran forwards was their motivation as much as the payroll benefits. But Chandler's teammates -- particularly Paul and West -- were stung by the trade, as was Hornets coach _Byron Scott_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3483) , since neither Wilcox nor Smith has the size or the impact as an interior defender as Chandler when he's at his best. Scott described the trade as the toughest he's ever had to stomach as a coach, saying of Chandler: "He's a coach's dream. He'll do whatever you ask him to do, and he'll do it to the best of his ability. ... I told him I was sick. I was sick about it. I said, 'From a personal standpoint, I'm sick to see you go.' But from a professional standpoint, this is our business and this is what happens in the business." Said West on Tuesday night: "This move has nothing to do with basketball. It was strictly a business decision. Using some common sense, that's what it came down to. I was hoping that all of it was a rumor. We have now become one of the smaller teams, and we really have put ourselves back in the situation we were in two years ago when we had a big hole in the middle." The Hornets were widely projected as a dark-horse title contender entering the season but hit the All-Star break as the No. 6 team in the West at 30-20 after a variety of injuries and struggles to cope with raised expectations. Chandler has been bothered all season by a variety of ailments and is averaging just 8.8 points and 8.3 rebounds, compared to 11.8 points and 11.7 rebounds last season when he helped New Orleans unexpectedly trump San Antonio, Houston and Dallas to win the Southwest Division with a 56-26 record. Chandler, 26, is scheduled to re-join the Hornets in Los Angeles before their game Friday against the Lakers. "I still think the sky's the limit for Tyson," Scott said Tuesday. "He has had an injury-plagued season, there's no doubt about that." It remains to be seen if there is enough time before Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline for Oklahoma City to regroup and find a new trade or two. Interest around the league in Wilcox ($6.8 million) and especially the veteran Smith ($4.8 million) has been considerable this season with both players carrying expiring salaries. Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine. Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From jlyell at verizon.net Thu Feb 19 16:38:12 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:38:12 -0800 Subject: Thunder reject Chandler; trade off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This could result in smith being bought out On Feb 19, 2009, at 8:23 AM, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: > > Thunder reject Chandler; trade off > > > By Chris Broussard > and Marc Stein > ESPN.com > > _Tyson Chandler_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984) missed > the New Orleans Hornets' last 12 games before the All-Star break > with a sprained left ankle. But that had nothing to do with why he > failed his > physical with the _Oklahoma City Thunder_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=okc) and was thus > sent back to the Hornets on Wednesday. > > After examining Chandler's left big toe, Dr. Carlan Yates, Oklahoma > City's > team physician, determined that the risk of re-injury was too great > to give > Chandler a clean bill of health. He therefore advised the Thunder to > rescind > Tuesday's trade that landed them Chandler for _Joe Smith_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788) , > _Chris Wilcox_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1731) and > the rights to Devon Hardin. > "This is absolutely crazy," Chandler said in a telephone conversation > Wednesday night. "I'm super shocked. This is nuts." > Chandler, 26, was baffled by Yates' ruling in part because Yates > performed > surgery on Chandler's big left toe in April of 2007 when the Hornets > were > playing in Oklahoma City. Chandler played 79 games the following > season and while > he's missed 19 games this season, none have been because of his toe. > "He said he doesn't know how long I'll last," Chandler said in > reference to > Yates. "He told me, 'I have no doubt you can play on it. I'm just > saying it > could take a turn for the worse if you come down on somebody's foot or > hyperextend it or something.'" > Chandler was bothered by the toe in last season's playoffs and > withdrew from > Team USA over the summer. > > > Mike & Mike > > Chris Broussard explains why the trade including Tyson Chandler was > rescinded. Chandler did not pass the Thunder's physical so he's > headed back to New > Orleans. > _More Podcasts ?_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?context=podcast) > > While Chandler, who said he feels no pain in the toe, was disturbed > by the > Thunder's decision, his Hornets teammates will undoubtedly be > excited by his > return. The players, most notably All-Stars _Chris Paul_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) and > _David West_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2177) , did > not hide their > disappointment over management's decision to trade Chandler, > especially in a move that was > clearly about finances rather than basketball. > "I was really disappointed too when I was traded," Chandler said. "I > felt > like if we were healthy we had a championship team in New Orleans. > But I didn't > want to sulk so I started to get excited about the new challenge in > Oklahoma > City. I felt I could help turn that team around." > Chandler will meet with New Orleans GM Jeff Bower on Thursday and > said he has > no ill feelings toward the Hornets, who traded him solely to rid > themselves > of the two years and $24.6 million remaining on his contract. He > laughed when > asked if he thought the Hornets might trade him somewhere else before > Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline. > "I'm not going to worry about that," he said. "But if it happens, it > happens." > Chandler said he initially planned to return from his ankle injury > within the > next three games because he felt the Hornets were slipping in the > standings > without him. > > > TrueHoop: Chandler back > Rescinding the Hornets-Thunder trade could make for awkward moments > in New > Orleans and Oklahoma City, Henry Abbott writes. _Story_ > (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-204/The-Untrading-of-Tyson-Chandler.html > ) > > "But after all this, I'm not rushing back," he said. "I'm not 100 > percent > yet, so I think its best just to get healthy." > Voiding the deal wipes out the long-term financial benefits that > prompted New > Orleans to make the deal. > "We were pleased to add Tyson to the Thunder roster," Thunder > general manager > Sam Presti said in a statement. "During the course of the physical > examination and outside consultations, some questions arose that > gave us cause for > concern. We felt that this course of action was the best for our > organization." > Chandler had surgery on his left toe shortly after the 2006-07 > season and > injured it again in April 2008 in New Orleans' regular-season finale > at Dallas. > He then re-injured it during the Hornets' second-round series > against San > Antonio, complaining of "turf toe" after he bent it toe backwards by > stepping on > _Ime Udoka_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=866 > ) 's > foot. Chandler was named as a Team USA alternate in July and > invited to a > pre-Olympic training camp but had to pull out because of the ongoing > toe > trouble. > Chandler took part in some of the Hornets' practice Monday on the > day before > he was traded after missing time with the sprained left ankle. > Sources close > to the situation told ESPN.com on Wednesday night that concerns > about the > long-term stability of Chandler's toe were sufficient to scare > Oklahoma City > off. > "We welcome Tyson back with open arms," Hornets general manager Jeff > Bower > said. "We went into this trade to garner more frontcourt depth to > add to our > team as we continue our push towards the playoffs. We expect Tyson > and the rest > of our big guys to step up to the challenge." > After word of Chandler's imminent return reached Hornets players > following > their resounding win Wednesday night over Orlando, Paul told > reporters: "I'm > excited to have T.C. back. I think it will give us a huge lift. > Hopefully it > will bring us closer together." > Presti is known as a longtime admirer of Chandler dating to his days > with the > _San Antonio Spurs_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse? > team=sas) . So > when the Hornets let teams around the league know that Chandler was > available  mostly because of owner George Shinn's mandate to reduce > a payroll > approaching $67 million this season and scheduled to reach nearly > $77 million next > season -- he pounced. > And the trade was widely hailed as a coup for Oklahoma City, given > that > Presti was able to land an accomplished center to add to his > promising young trio > of _Kevin Durant_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3202) , > _Russell Westbrook_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3468) and > _Jeff Green_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3209) > without surrendering any major draft considerations. The > Thunder possess numerous draft picks to sweeten trade packages, > including five > first-rounders in the next two drafts, but the Hornets' financial > straits were > such that the expiring contracts of Smith and Wilcox were enough to > clinch > Chandler's acquisition. > With the Hornets unable to generate trade interest in _Peja > Stojakovic_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=813) and > unwilling to > part with either Paul or West, New Orleans' only money-saving > option was > shedding Chandler's $12.3 million salary next season from its > books. Chandler has > the right to become a free agent after the 2009-10 season in the > unlikely event > that he chooses to walk away from his $13.2 million salary in > 2010-11. > The Hornets insisted after the deal that the opportunity to replace > Chandler > with two dependable veteran forwards was their motivation as much as > the > payroll benefits. But Chandler's teammates -- particularly Paul and > West -- were > stung by the trade, as was Hornets coach _Byron Scott_ > (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3483) , > since neither Wilcox nor Smith has > the size or the impact as an interior defender as Chandler when > he's at his > best. > Scott described the trade as the toughest he's ever had to stomach > as a > coach, saying of Chandler: "He's a coach's dream. He'll do whatever > you ask him > to do, and he'll do it to the best of his ability. ... I told him I > was sick. I > was sick about it. I said, 'From a personal standpoint, I'm sick to > see you > go.' But from a professional standpoint, this is our business and > this is > what happens in the business." > Said West on Tuesday night: "This move has nothing to do with > basketball. It > was strictly a business decision. Using some common sense, that's > what it > came down to. I was hoping that all of it was a rumor. We have now > become one of > the smaller teams, and we really have put ourselves back in the > situation we > were in two years ago when we had a big hole in the middle." > The Hornets were widely projected as a dark-horse title contender > entering > the season but hit the All-Star break as the No. 6 team in the West > at 30-20 > after a variety of injuries and struggles to cope with raised > expectations. > Chandler has been bothered all season by a variety of ailments and > is averaging > just 8.8 points and 8.3 rebounds, compared to 11.8 points and 11.7 > rebounds > last season when he helped New Orleans unexpectedly trump San > Antonio, Houston > and Dallas to win the Southwest Division with a 56-26 record. > Chandler, 26, is scheduled to re-join the Hornets in Los Angeles > before their > game Friday against the Lakers. > "I still think the sky's the limit for Tyson," Scott said Tuesday. > "He has > had an injury-plagued season, there's no doubt about that." > It remains to be seen if there is enough time before Thursday's 3 p.m. > trading deadline for Oklahoma City to regroup and find a new trade > or two. > Interest around the league in Wilcox ($6.8 million) and especially > the veteran Smith > ($4.8 million) has been considerable this season with both players > carrying > expiring salaries. > Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine. Marc Stein is > the > senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. > **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003 > ) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 17:44:05 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:44:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hottest Celtics Rumor: Nocioni To Boston Message-ID: <940773.41511.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Via Chad Ford. However, believing that micromanagers Wyc and Trust Fund Steve would allow the Celtics to take on Nocioni's contract strains credulity. Nocioni would be a great pick up, even if the Kings have to waive a few players and the Celtics have to move out T. Allen, Sclabrine, Powe, etc., but tight wad Celtics ownership likely ain't budging. Ray PS: I will congratulate them if such a move is forthcoming... From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:56:51 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:56:51 EST Subject: Marc Stein: Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James? Message-ID: Marc Stein: _Shaquille O'Neal_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=614) and _LeBron James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) ? ESPN.com contributor Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that the Cavs have offered _Ben Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885) and _Sasha Pavlovic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2172) to the _Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho) for O'Neal. And sources close to the process have confirmed to ESPN.com that the teams are indeed in talks involving O'Neal, which would offer the Suns some of the payroll relief they've been seeking. Because only $1.5 million of Pavlovic's contract is guaranteed next season, Phoenix would slice $5.5 million off of its 2009-10 payroll if it agreed to send Shaq to the Cavs. It's believed, though, that the Suns are resistant to taking back Wallace and are thus trying to convince Cleveland to part with _Wally Szczerbiak_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=831) 's $13.8 million expiring contract instead, which would turn this into a huge financial windfall for Phoenix. UPDATE (12:29 p.m. ET): Multiple sources with knowledge of the talks between Cleveland and Phoenix today are saying as of noon that a deal actually coming together to team Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James is very unlikely. No one is denying that the teams have talked, but we're getting strong hints now that this deal is in no way close. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:58:30 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:58:30 EST Subject: Dave - Boston: Celtics get anything done? Message-ID: Dave - Boston: Celtics get anything done? Chad Ford: (12:09 PM ET ) We keep hearing all morning that the Celtics were talking to the Kings about a deal for Nocioni. The Kings can move him again as long as they don't package him with other players on their roster. The Celtics would send back Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Glen Davis and Patrick O'Bryant. However, a Celtics source says there's nothing happening there. A Kings source, however, says it would be a possibility. I wonder why the Celtics WOULDN'T do that. Nocioni would be a great piece for them. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 19:02:39 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:02:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Latest Rumors: No Nocioni, Calvin Booth? Message-ID: <818358.98806.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Let's see, Chad says the Kings would love to trade Nocioni to Boston, but the Celtics (I say: Wyc/Trust Fund Steve) not interested. Spears, Globe says the Celtics might have interest in signing Calvin booth ha ha ha ha if he's waived. Ainge and Wyc should be put to sleep, if this is their post-trade deadline acquisition. Ray From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 19:14:35 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:14:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic In-Reply-To: <25094.626.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <102091.89398.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> You might have a point there with Smith, but what I remember about him is how money his J was during the Cleveland series last year. We could really use such a reliable offensive option off the bench... As for Bell, he *was* awesome on defense, but I'm not sure he has much left... Ryan --- On Thu, 2/19/09, asterix ninetynine wrote: > From: asterix ninetynine > Subject: Re: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 7:53 AM > I don't think there is any comparison between PJ and Joe > Smith.? Smith has always been something of a softee in my > book and I don't know if he would be that good a > fit.?Of course he wants to come here and get a good shot at > a ring, but I don't think he has the intensity level of > the guys on this squad. > > Love Raja Bell if only for the fact that he would give Kobe > fits during the Finals. He brings a an 'A' defensive > game and defense wins championships. > > Danny says that all is quiet which probably means he's > got a deal up his sleeve.? I'm wondering if the deal > isn't with Charlotte?who added another big man to their > stable when they picked up Radmanovic.??Maybe a 2 for 3 > with?say Bell and Ajinca coming back for Scalabrine, > Giddens and POB.? That type of deals saves salary/years for > Charlotte, doesn't cost us a whole lot, and leave us > with a roster spot for a waiver signee. Both sides win which > is the best type of deal. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Noah Evans > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:55:41 AM > Subject: Re: Rumor: Joe Smith Wants to be a Celtic > > If we got Bell from the Bobcats and Smith from the former > Sonics I > would be very happy about our chances. > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Adam Patterson > wrote: > > From: > http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218 > > > > > > > > POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 12:33 a.m. ET > > > > Chris Sheridan: A source who has been in the know for > years tells me that Joe Smith is keeping his fingers crossed > that the Thunder do not find another trade for him now that > he's back in Oklahoma City. > > > > > > Smith, the source said, would like to do a buyout and > then sign with the Boston Celtics as this season's > version of P.J. Brown. > > > > > > (also posted on CelticsBlog) > > > > > >? ? ? Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to > the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 19:16:23 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:16:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Latest Rumors: No Nocioni, Calvin Booth? In-Reply-To: <818358.98806.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <235603.84669.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, well, I doubt it will be what we end up adding to this squad.... Nocioni would be a great pickup, if only he wasn't more overpaid than James Posey. Booth is a stiff and I hope he's not signed. He's useless and I doubt that he'd even get off the bench. If anything, it looks more and more that Marbury might be the guy we end up with... Ryan --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Way Of The Ray wrote: > From: Way Of The Ray > Subject: Latest Rumors: No Nocioni, Calvin Booth? > To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" > Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 1:02 PM > Let's see, Chad says the Kings would love to trade > Nocioni to Boston, but the Celtics (I say: Wyc/Trust Fund > Steve) not interested. > > Spears, Globe says the Celtics might have interest in > signing Calvin booth ha ha ha ha if he's waived. > > Ainge and Wyc should be put to sleep, if this is their > post-trade deadline acquisition. > > Ray > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Thu Feb 19 19:48:21 2009 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:48:21 -0800 Subject: Dave - Boston: Celtics get anything done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7A70F8CF-6738-421E-A4B3-42A6E4C4BB7D@verizon.net> Pretty much Allen & baby for nocioni, a good deal If we can add smith bell or Marbury that would be an upgrade On Feb 19, 2009, at 9:58 AM, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: > Dave - Boston: Celtics get anything done? > > Chad Ford: (12:09 PM ET ) We keep hearing all morning that the > Celtics were > talking to the Kings about a deal for Nocioni. The Kings can move > him again > as long as they don't package him with other players on their > roster. The > Celtics would send back Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Glen Davis and > Patrick O'Bryant. > However, a Celtics source says there's nothing happening there. A > Kings > source, however, says it would be a possibility. I wonder why the > Celtics WOULDN'T > do that. Nocioni would be a great piece for them. > **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003 > ) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 19:55:20 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:55:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: POB Traded To Sacramento Message-ID: <478810.70342.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The C's may recieve a future highly protected 2nd. Now, two roster spots are open. Another deal coming? Or Marbury and Joe Smith? Ray From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 19 20:02:03 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:02:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: O'Bryant is gooooooone... Message-ID: <462854.58996.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> O'Bryant is the odd man out, but they're not sure where yet. It will be either Sacramento (for a draft pick) or Toronto (for Will Solomon). I'm glad it was O'Bryant who was the odd man out, as he hasn't earned anything. Oh, by the way, we have a game tonight in Utah :) From: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/02/obryant_traded.html The Celtics are considering trading backup center Patrick O'Bryant to the Sacramento Kings, but there is also a possibility that he will instead be sent to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for guard Will Solomon. We previously reported the deal to the Kings -- which would be made to clear salary-cap space and would not have brought a player in return, according to an NBA source -- was complete. It is not as of this hour, with the Raptors deal still viable option for Celtics president Danny Ainge as the 3 p.m. trade deadline approaches. Solomon is averaging 4.8 points, 1.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists in 13.6 minutes per game for Toronto. A Solomon-O'Bryant trade would work salary cap-wise. Because Boston and Toronto are over the cap, the 25-percent trade rule would be invoked. Boston and Toronto had to be no more than 125 percent plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which would be the case here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The 7-foot O'Bryant, who was not at the Celtics' shootaround this afternoon, has averaged 1.5 points in 26 games for the Celtics after signing as a free agent in the offseason. An NBA source said the Celtics are interested in veteran center Calvin Booth, who just was acquired by the Kings from Minnesota. Boston could be interested in adding Booth as a free agent if he is waived. -------------- The Celtics have traded backup center Patrick O'Bryant to the Sacramento Kings. The move was made for salary-cap purposes and the club will not receive a player in return, according to an NBA source. There is the possibility that the club will receive a draft pick in exchange for the 7-footer, who averaged 1.5 points in 26 games for the Celtics after signing as a free agent in the offseason. O'Bryant was not at the Celtics' shootaround this afternoon. Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From stevebknight at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 20:36:28 2009 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:36:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: walker/pruitt References: Message-ID: <461714.43895.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> if we end up not getting anyone after the deadline, we better hope that walker comes on strong, because without tony, he's about the only one off the bench we can throw at lebron to give pierce a rest in the playoffs, and walker would get zero calls against lebron. would probably foul out in 5 minutes. here's hoping pruitt steps up his game, starting tonight. we could use the help. Message: 9 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:16:23 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Latest Rumors: No Nocioni, Calvin Booth? To: Celtics Are Idiots List Message-ID: <235603.84669.qm at web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yeah, well, I doubt it will be what we end up adding to this squad.... Nocioni would be a great pickup, if only he wasn't more overpaid than James Posey. Booth is a stiff and I hope he's not signed. He's useless and I doubt that he'd even get off the bench. If anything, it looks more and more that Marbury might be the guy we end up with... Ryan From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 21:02:45 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:02:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Acquisition Of Will Solomon, What Does It Mean? Message-ID: <466440.96402.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> So, the Celtics pulled a swerve and traded POB not to Sacramento but to Toronto for little used PG Will Solomon. What does this tell us: 1. The Celtics have no confidence in Gabe Pruitt as the third string point guard. 2. Solomon appears to be insurance in case the Marbury situation isn't resolved. 3. Management would not add a long term contract (Nocioni). 4. POB was a big mistake. 5. Fortunately for the Celtics, the Lakers and Cavs didn't improve themselves, but the Celtics have hardly taken a great leap forward with these pre-deadline deals. 6. With an undersized bench as it is and POB exiting stage north, the Celtics desperately truly need a Big never named Calvin Booth. Ray From martind42 at cox.net Thu Feb 19 21:11:57 2009 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:11:57 -0500 Subject: The Acquisition Of Will Solomon, What Does It Mean? In-Reply-To: <466440.96402.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090219161157.YOCSZ.21981.imail@eastrmwml41> Your points below become moot if Solomon is moved to Sacramento for that 2nd round pick. ---- Way Of The Ray wrote: > > So, the Celtics pulled a swerve and traded POB not to Sacramento but to Toronto for little used PG Will Solomon. > > What does this tell us: > > 1. The Celtics have no confidence in Gabe Pruitt as the third string point guard. > > 2. Solomon appears to be insurance in case the Marbury situation isn't resolved. > > 3. Management would not add a long term contract (Nocioni). > > 4. POB was a big mistake. > > 5. Fortunately for the Celtics, the Lakers and Cavs didn't improve themselves, but the Celtics have hardly taken a great leap forward with these pre-deadline deals. > > 6. With an undersized bench as it is and POB exiting stage north, the Celtics desperately truly need a Big never named Calvin Booth. > > Ray > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 21:12:36 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Update, LOL, Solomon Sent To Sacramento By The Celtics Message-ID: <357233.66479.qm@web110114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> For a conditional 2nd rounder, much like the Cassell trade. Wow. Well, what does this tell us? Marbury may still be in play. The C's have two roster spots available. JR Giddens has been recalled. A crazy minor trade day, LOL. They, still should have done the Nocioni deal. Let's hope Marbury and Smith are the post-trade acquisitions. Ray From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 21:33:58 2009 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:33:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Update: Ric Bucher Says C's and Mikki Moore Message-ID: <27768.83117.qm@web110113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well, he's a decent backup center. They could do much worse (Hello POB)))) "I'm also told that Sacramento will be releasing Mikki Moore after the Kings were unable to include him in any trades before the deadline. Given the leaguewide need for big men, there figures to be a fair bit of interest in Moore once he clears waivers. Expectation is high that he will wind up in Boston, reports ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher." From bosox18 at charter.net Thu Feb 19 22:25:59 2009 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:25:59 -0500 Subject: Hottest Celtics Rumor: Nocioni To Boston In-Reply-To: <940773.41511.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <940773.41511.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A639AC3B77846EA87370A8CD16A4703@StevePC> I'm pretty sure you didn't congratulate them after they won the championship last year ... Ray PS: I will congratulate them if such a move is forthcoming... _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 22:43:14 2009 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:43:14 -0400 Subject: Hottest Celtics Rumor: Nocioni To Boston In-Reply-To: <0A639AC3B77846EA87370A8CD16A4703@StevePC> References: <940773.41511.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0A639AC3B77846EA87370A8CD16A4703@StevePC> Message-ID: Ray's still bitter about whatshisname. I'm not sad about no-Nocioni. He would simply be someone else who doesn't play defense the Celtic way. It is obvious that the brass and team leaders are buying into the mantra of defense winning championships, and while it may not be flashy enough for folks like Ray who would complain if we swapped Lebron for Giddens straightup, the team all received a ring recently because of it. I like the commitment to working hard on that end of the floor as well as the notion of any prospective future C's knowing that before they come here...knowing that they are going to be expected to bust it defensively. Cecil > From: bosox18 at charter.net > To: wayoftheray at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com > Subject: RE: Hottest Celtics Rumor: Nocioni To Boston > Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:25:59 -0500 > > > I'm pretty sure you didn't congratulate them after they won the championship > last year ... > > > Ray > > PS: I will congratulate them if such a move is forthcoming... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ From kmalo17 at verizon.net Thu Feb 19 23:46:12 2009 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:46:12 -0500 Subject: Hottest Celtics Rumor: Nocioni To Boston In-Reply-To: References: <940773.41511.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0A639AC3B77846EA87370A8CD16A4703@StevePC> Message-ID: <0KFC009TL7D2ZQ6P@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> At 05:43 PM 2/19/2009, Cecil Wright wrote: >Ray's still bitter about whatshisname. I'm not sad about >no-Nocioni. He would simply be someone else who doesn't play >defense the Celtic way. It is obvious that the brass and team >leaders are buying into the mantra of defense winning championships, >and while it may not be flashy enough for folks like Ray who would >complain if we swapped Lebron for Giddens straightup, the team all >received a ring recently because of it. I like the commitment to >working hard on that end of the floor as well as the notion of any >prospective future C's knowing that before they come here...knowing >that they are going to be expected to bust it defensively. Yup, the mantra I've been preaching. While the other problem is the one no one pays attention to - what you have to give up, both because someone else has to want it but also to make the salaries work in a trade for anything of value. I like Raja Bell but be makes $5MM, which means about 3 players from us. We have a very polarized salary structure, with the few top end salaries and the rest at the low end, with Perk at $4MM next after the big 3, Scal next at $3MM on down to 5 of 15 players under a million. Not much in mid-level salaries to trade for other middle level salaries such as come with almost anyone of value. I don't think Danny was unwilling to trade I just don't think he didn't like any of the available deals. From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Feb 20 00:04:22 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:04:22 EST Subject: Trade-talk roundup: What we're hearing Message-ID: Trade-talk roundup: What we're hearing ESPN.com POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 4:39 p.m. ET Chris Sheridan: In a three-way trade, Sacramento gets _Will Solomon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1023) from Toronto ... Toronto gets _Patrick O'Bryant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019) from Boston ... and Boston gets a heavily protected, conditional second-round pick from Sacramento. On a related note, one very, very interesting thing to watch for is a possible bidding war for _Mikki Moore_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=575) , who Marc Stein is reporting will be waived by the Kings to clear room for Will Solomon in the three-way deal. Cleveland has a big slice of its midlevel exception, and the Cavs would be willing to throw a sizeable chunk of it at _Joe Smith_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788) if he is bought out by Oklahoma City. Whether or not they like Mikki Moore, well, I expect a reading on that from Brian Windhorst within the hour. UPDATE (6:50 p.m. ET): In the potential bidding war for Moore, Cleveland has $5.135 million of its mid-level exception left, and Boston has $2.392 million of its mid-level remaining. I'm told the Cavs, like ESPN's Ric Bucher, are of the belief that Moore is going to wind up in Boston. The Rockets could also get in the hunt for an extra big man, or for a veteran point guard now that they've handed the keys to Aaron Brooks and Kyle Lowry. They have $1.568 million of their mid-level remaining, but I have to consult one of my cap magicians before I can tell you how close they stand to the luxury tax threshold following today's three-way trade with Memphis and Orlando. Portland also has its full mid-level exception ($5.585 million) and San Antonio has $2.085 million of its mid-level. ____________________________________ POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 4:11 p.m. ET Marc Stein: Chicago's _Thabo Sefolosha_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3028) is headed to Oklahoma City for one of the Thunder's five stockpiled first-round picks in the next two drafts. ? I'm also told that Sacramento will be releasing _Mikki Moore_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=575) after the Kings were unable to include him in any trades before the deadline. Given the leaguewide need for big men, there figures to be a fair bit of interest in Moore once he clears waivers. Expectation is high that he will wind up in Boston, reports ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Fri Feb 20 06:50:09 2009 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:50:09 -0500 Subject: Ugly & dumb! Message-ID: <027e01c99327$7915cfd0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Ugly game, too many TOs but still should have won! Pierce looked like he was hurt, favoring his knee too. If not, he had a really bad game. Why did Doc go to him 4 straight times at the end of the game when he obviously didn't have it tonight. He clanked, and I mean clanked, 4 fts tonight. With KG out, Scal out, put House in, spread the court and let Rondo drive & kick to the open man. Frustrating game, refs horrible again too. Lets hope KG will not be out long or we are in BIG trouble! I know we all get tired of Wrays pessimism, but he is 100% correct when he says Ainge let the team down this year with his lack of signings. Our one big signing, POB, was shown the door leaving us nothing but a hope & prayer that a team buys someone out and he will want to come here. Mikki Moore our saviour? If he is, we are in worse shape than we thought! Troy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.0/1959 - Release Date: 2/18/2009 8:55 PM From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 20 09:16:08 2009 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:16:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ugly & dumb! Message-ID: <726950.81722.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Ainge didn?t let the team down, Patrick O?Bryant let the team down. And himself. He was given the opportunity of a lifetime to play for the defending champions, the most storied basketball franchise in the world to be exact, and he continues his. He?ll be kicking himself for years about that. In the Phoenix game recently he got pushed around by none other than Robin Lopez and then got stripped clean by Goran Dragic who went in for an easy layup (luckily we were up by at least 20 at that point). The guy looked like D-League material at best. I wish him well, he may develop some day as he?s only 22, but he was essentially a low risk project that didn?t pan out. So now we move on, no biggie. If you have a look at the free agent list from last summer you?ll see that there weren?t many quality big men: http://www.nba.com/transactions/movement2008_team.html You?re right about Mikki Moore though. He wouldn?t help us immensely but he?s definitely an upgrade over ol? Pat Pat. Cheers Adam (fingers crossed for Joe Smith and? Marbury!) ? --- Troy Hash wrote: Ugly game, too many TOs but still should have won!? Pierce looked like he was hurt, favoring his knee too.? If not, he had a really bad game.? Why did Doc go to him 4 straight times at the end of the game when he obviously didn't have it tonight.? He clanked, and I mean clanked, 4 fts tonight. With KG out, Scal out, put House in, spread the court and let Rondo drive & kick to the open man.? Frustrating game, refs horrible again too.? Lets hope KG will not be out long or we are in BIG trouble! ?I know we all get tired of Wrays pessimism, but he is 100% correct when he says Ainge let the team down this year with his lack of signings.?? Our one big signing, POB, was shown the door leaving us nothing but a hope & prayer that a team buys someone out and he will want to come here.? Mikki Moore our saviour?? If he is, we are in worse shape than we thought!? Troy ? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.0/1959 - Release Date: 2/18/2009 8:55 PM Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Feb 20 17:09:31 2009 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:09:31 EST Subject: Chris Mannix > INSIDE THE NBA Message-ID: Chris Mannix > INSIDE THE NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/chris_mannix/archive/) Trade-deadline winners and losers Story Highlights The Bulls and Magic scored with their moves at the trading deadline The Hornets benfited when their trade of Tyson Chandler to OKC was rescinded The Cavaliers may end up regretting their decision to stand pat Which teams can declare victory after the NBA's trading deadline passed Thursday? Which teams have executives who are hurling their phones against the wall in defeat? Let's examine. Biggest winners Orlando Magic ? What they got: G _Rafer Alston_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3282) ? What they gave up: F _Brian Cook_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3727) , C _Adonal Foyle_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3178) , G _Mike Wilks_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3692) , 2009 first-round pick ? Skinny: The Magic have sent a clear signal that they believe they can win this season without All-Star point guard _Jameer Nelson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3837) , who had season-ending shoulder surgery Thursday. Alston, who has started all but two of the games he has played for the Rockets over the last five seasons, is a legitimate point guard who should keep the Magic on course with Nelson out of the lineup. The cost was minimal: Cook, Foyle and Wilks weren't part of the rotation, and Orlando's pick will likely be low in what is perceived as a weak draft. The Magic could end up with an even better pick or another player in the offseason by dangling Alston, whose $5.3 million expiring contract will be attractive. Chicago Bulls ? What they got: C _Brad Miller_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3305) , G-F _John Salmons_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3624) , F _Tim Thomas_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3170) , C _Jerome James_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3279) , 2009 first-round pick ? What they gave up: F _Andres Nocioni_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3882) , G _Larry Hughes_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3251) , F _Drew Gooden_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3602) , F-C _Michael Ruffin_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3355) , F _Cedric Simmons_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4143) , G _Thabo Sefolosha_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4141) ? Skinny: Miller, who played in Chicago from 2000-2002, gives the Bulls a physical inside presence who can spread the floor with his jump shot. There are risks, such as Chicago's introducing an immobile player into an up-tempo offense run by the speedy _Derrick Rose_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4387) , and questions about how much the 32-year-old Miller has left in the tank. But if Miller is reenergized by the deal, he can stabilize what has been a very inconsistent frontcourt. Salmons has been having a career season with Sacramento, averaging 18.3 points and connecting on 41.8 percent of his three-point attempts. He is under contract for next season (with a player option for 2010-2011), giving the Bulls protection should they opt not to re-sign _Ben Gordon_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3820) . Giving up Nocioni and Gooden hurts, but the additions should boost the Bulls down the stretch. They are 1? games behind Milwaukee for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. "They're definitely going to help us," guard _Kirk Hinrich_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3710) told the Chicago Tribune. "John is very versatile. Brad has been in the league forever. Everybody knows what he can do. He's one of the best passing bigs in the game." New Orleans Hornets ? What they got: Nothing ? What they gave up: Nothing ? Skinny: The Hornets were roundly criticized for dealing _Tyson Chandler_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3512) to Oklahoma City. When that trade was rescinded after Chandler flunked his physical, general manager Jeff Bower did the right thing and kept his starting center. The Hornets will likely reconsider trading Chandler in the offseason, but for now they remain a legitimate threat in the Western Conference. Other winners ? _Toronto Raptors_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/raptors) and _Miami Heat_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/heat) : Both _stand to benefit_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/02/13/heat.raptors.trade/index.html) from last week's _Jermaine O'Neal_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3120/index.html) -_Shawn Marion_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3332) trade. ? _Sacramento Kings_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/kings) : _Rashad McCants_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3940) never quite fit in with the Timberwolves, but the former lottery pick can score -- and he's playing for a contract. ? _Minnesota Timberwolves_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/timberwolves) : Maybe I'm still waiting for _Shelden Williams_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4133) to turn into the next _Carlos Boozer_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3632) , but I like this pickup. Minnesota needs help up front with _Al Jefferson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3832) 's season-ending knee injury. Williams, an afterthought in Sacramento, could become a solid third big man off the bench. Biggest losers Cleveland Cavaliers ? What they got: Nothing ? What they gave up: Nothing ? Skinny: Unless you are a Cavs financial officer or a fan of luxury-tax relief, this is a disappointment. Cleveland had a monster chip to play in _Wally Szczerbiak_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3329) 's $13.8 million expiring contract but sat on it. The Clippers never really made _Marcus Camby_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3084) available and Cleveland couldn't work out a deal for _Richard Jefferson_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3523) or _Shaquille O'Neal_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/847/index.html) . The Cavs may still emerge as NBA champions, but they probably blew an enormous opportunity to bolster their chances. Boston Celtics ? What they got: Nothing ? What they gave up: G _Sam Cassell_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/1295) , C _Patrick O'Bryant_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4137/) ? Skinny: This one comes with an asterisk. The Celtics failed to upgrade their bench and settled for creating two open roster spots by dumping the seldom-used O'Bryant and never-used Cassell. But who will fill those spots (besides rookie _J.R. Giddens_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4492/) , who was recalled from the D-League on Thursday)? Here's where the asterisk comes into play. The Kings released forward-center _Mikki Moore_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3308) late Thursday. Though not a great defender, Moore is a long, perimeter-shooting big man who could bolster the Celtics' frontcourt. Expect Cleveland, Denver and perhaps the Lakers to join the bidding for Moore. If Boston can get Moore (or forward _Joe Smith_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3003) if he secures a buyout from Oklahoma City), its deadline scorecard gets a whole lot better. Oklahoma City Thunder ? What they got: F _Malik Rose_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3134) , G _Thabo Sefolosha_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4141) ? What they gave up: F _Chris Wilcox_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3606) , 2009 first-round pick ? Skinny: Unless Chandler's toe falls off sometime in the next two years, the Thunder overreacted to an injury that the Hornets don't seem to be that concerned about. Chandler would have backstopped a porous defense and formed a solid nucleus with _Kevin Durant_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4244) , _Jeff Green_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4247) and _Russell Westbrook_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4390) , in addition to the multiple first-round picks OKC has this June. Instead, the Thunder picked up some money in the Rose-Wilcox swap and a promising swingman in Sefolosha, who cost them one of their low first-round picks. Not the worst result, but one that could have gone as significantly better. Other losers ? _Houston Rockets_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/rockets) : After beginning the season with championship aspirations, dealing Alston could be the first step in a rebuilding process. It remains to be seen whether _Aaron Brooks_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4304) or new addition _Kyle Lowry_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4152) can handle Alston's starting job. ? _Memphis Grizzlies_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/grizzlies) : They had an opportunity to acquire _Amar'e Stoudemire_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3607/index.html) but refused to part with _Rudy Gay_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/4136) . ? _New York Knicks_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/knicks) : They had one mission: unload _Jared Jeffries_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3609) and/or _Eddy Curry_ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3514) . They failed. Everything else is cosmetic. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 00:33:19 2009 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:33:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ugly & dumb! In-Reply-To: <027e01c99327$7915cfd0$6401a8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <635608.86083.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hang in there, Troy, help is on the way. Our salary structure is set up in a way where we can pretty much only afford young players and cheap veterans on our bench. Danny knows that and that's why he made the signings he did over the summer--he set up a roster where certain players would have time to prove their worth and then be moved if necessary at the trading deadline so as to create room to sign veteran free agents who would be invariably waived after the deadline. He also knew he could wisely excise Sam and POB (or whomver didn't make the cut in terms of earning their spot on the team) without taking a salary cap hit, creating trade exemptions and roster spots in the process. So, basically, Danny intentionally went cheap on the bench (after attempting to get good value contracts signed with Posey or Maggette, both of whom turned him down) in the summer with the knowledge that invariably SOMEONE would be bought out after the trading deadline and that that SOMEONE would be both CHEAPER (in terms of salary cap hit we only pay them the last 2 months of the season at probably the minimum) and BETTER than what was available during the summer. So, here we are, having passed on crap like Tyronne Lue or Chris Andersen in the summer, with the opportunity to sign Marbury and Joe Smith (or others....) late in the season to short, minimum-type deals. So, we basically get better players at better value, while using the first half of the season to audition our young players and hopefully build value eit