From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 07:52:33 2008 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:52:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: <347492.82274.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The Celtics will have a chance to greatly improve their team at minimal cost with the addition of Stephon Marbury, who's expected to be bought out by the Knicks this week. Whatever Marbury's shenanigans in New York, it was the more the matter of two parties colliding in conflict, trying to reach the best financial recompense for themselves. Marbury will be a must-have addition for a Celtics team overrated by the fan boys, not cognizant of the danger lurking all around. So, make this match in basketball heaven happen, Dubious Danny... Ray From JoeFan11111 at aol.com Mon Dec 1 09:28:16 2008 From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com (JoeFan11111 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:28:16 EST Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: Woohoo, the dreaded Marbury name again. There's no quit in you RayoftheWay. If it's any consolation, Donny Marshall agrees with you that the Celts should look into signing Starbury. What a tangled mess caused in part by the Knicks handling of Marbury. He's obviously their best guard but after teasing him by even starting him in a couple of preseason games suddenly when the season arrived they told him they wouldn't allow him to play as they were going in another direction. The Knicks owner seems as stupid and culpable to me as both Isaih and Marbury. Poor D'Antoni surrounded by these jerks. The Knicks should just bite the bullet, waive Marbury, and go on from there. I agree we could use another PG. Rondo is good, but he also has the best supporting cast in the NBA. And his lack of 3 pointers and terrible FT% plague him. As for his being the best PG in the East and a deserving all star as some here have advanced, young Devin Harris who is ripping up the league would have an argument with that. Also young Calderon in Toronto and younger sensation Rose in Chicago. And don't forget perennial bad boy Iverson (crazy trade for Detroit) still has lots left. Also Ford, Nelson, and Bibby are having good years despite being on lesser teams than Rondo. Does Rondo make the Celts are do the Celts make Rondo? Hey, I like that line. Joe ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net Mon Dec 1 10:43:15 2008 From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:43:15 -0500 Subject: [Celtics' Stuff ] Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: <347492.82274.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <347492.82274.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081201184322.EF8D9E1824D@ignite.igtc.com> Geez, Ray are you getting a percentage of his salary, or what? Marbury had a chance to prove he wanted to play basketball last week. The Knicks, who had banished him, had to beg him to come back for a gam or two. Now, this was all the Knicks' fault, as they made the trade that allowed this situation to develop. All "Steph Infection" had to do was smile and say, "ok", and play the game or two without comment. He'd have come out looking like a guy who was willing to help the people who had earlier publicly dismissed him. Plus, he'd have increased his value to other teams who would have seen evidence he was able to see beyond himself. But he chose not to. It doesn't really matter which version of events you believe--be it the Knicks' that he refused an order to play; or Marbury's version that he declined an offer to play--Marbury made the wrong choice, AGAIN. Mr. "Me-First" showed once again that he lacks the character necessary to play on a true Championship team. Simply put, he doesn't deserve to wear a Celtics uniform. There are players with as much, or more, talent, who have the added benefit of being willing to put themselves aside for the good of the team. They, and we, don't need the aggravation. At 10:52 AM 12/1/2008, Way Of The Ray wrote: >The Celtics will have a chance to greatly improve their team at >minimal cost with the addition of Stephon Marbury, who's expected to >be bought out by the Knicks this week. > >Whatever Marbury's shenanigans in New York, it was the more the >matter of two parties colliding in conflict, trying to reach the >best financial recompense for themselves. > >Marbury will be a must-have addition for a Celtics team overrated by >the fan boys, not cognizant of the danger lurking all around. > >So, make this match in basketball heaven happen, Dubious Danny... > >Ray From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 1 10:49:27 2008 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:49:27 -0400 Subject: [Celtics' Stuff ] Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: <20081201184322.EF8D9E1824D@ignite.igtc.com> References: <347492.82274.qm@web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20081201184322.EF8D9E1824D@ignite.igtc.com> Message-ID: Snoop...you deserve a cookie!! Cecil (chocolate chip/oatmeal raisin) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:43:15 -0500> To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com> From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net> Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Marbury Marbury Marbury> > Geez, Ray are you getting a percentage of his salary, or what?> > Marbury had a chance to prove he wanted to play basketball last > week. The Knicks, who had banished him, had to beg him to come back > for a gam or two. Now, this was all the Knicks' fault, as they made > the trade that allowed this situation to develop.> > All "Steph Infection" had to do was smile and say, "ok", and play > the game or two without comment. He'd have come out looking like a > guy who was willing to help the people who had earlier publicly > dismissed him. Plus, he'd have increased his value to other teams > who would have seen evidence he was able to see beyond himself.> > But he chose not to. It doesn't really matter which version of > events you believe--be it the Knicks' that he refused an order to > play; or Marbury's version that he declined an offer to play--Marbury > made the wrong choice, AGAIN.> > Mr. "Me-First" showed once again that he lacks the character > necessary to play on a true Championship team. Simply put, he > doesn't deserve to wear a Celtics uniform. There are players with as > much, or more, talent, who have the added benefit of being willing to > put themselves aside for the good of the team.> > They, and we, don't need the aggravation.> > At 10:52 AM 12/1/2008, Way Of The Ray wrote:> > >The Celtics will have a chance to greatly improve their team at > >minimal cost with the addition of Stephon Marbury, who's expected to > >be bought out by the Knicks this week.> >> >Whatever Marbury's shenanigans in New York, it was the more the > >matter of two parties colliding in conflict, trying to reach the > >best financial recompense for themselves.> >> >Marbury will be a must-have addition for a Celtics team overrated by > >the fan boys, not cognizant of the danger lurking all around.> >> >So, make this match in basketball heaven happen, Dubious Danny...> >> >Ray> _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ From jlyell at verizon.net Mon Dec 1 11:32:54 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:32:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: <130593.40296.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> At what we would pay him it is worth a try, if it doesn't work out we Darius Miles him! ________________________________ From: "JoeFan11111 at aol.com" To: wayoftheray at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com; celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 9:28:16 AM Subject: Re: Marbury Marbury Marbury Woohoo, the dreaded Marbury name again. There's no quit in you RayoftheWay.? If it's any consolation, Donny Marshall agrees with you that the Celts should look into signing Starbury. What a tangled mess caused in part by the Knicks handling of Marbury.? He's obviously their best guard but after teasing him by even starting him in a couple of preseason games suddenly when the season arrived they told him they wouldn't allow him to play as they were going in another direction.? The Knicks owner seems as stupid and culpable to me as both Isaih and Marbury.? Poor D'Antoni surrounded by these jerks.? The Knicks should just bite the bullet, waive Marbury, and go on from there. I agree we could use another PG. Rondo is good, but he also has the best supporting cast in the NBA. And his lack of 3 pointers and terrible FT% plague him.? As for his being the best PG in the East and a deserving all star as some here have advanced,? young Devin Harris who is ripping up the league would have an argument with that.? Also young Calderon in Toronto and younger sensation Rose in Chicago. And don't forget perennial bad boy Iverson (crazy trade for Detroit) still has lots left.? Also Ford, Nelson, and Bibby are having good years despite being on lesser teams than Rondo. Does Rondo make the Celts are do the Celts make Rondo? Hey, I like that line. Joe ? ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From noah.evans at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:02:58 2008 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:02:58 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: <130593.40296.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <130593.40296.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000812011302x1b456fd7x7d23c9a8297fa70b@mail.gmail.com> No way. Good chemistry with guys who like each other is the hardest thing to get in basketball. Marbury's impact would be felt long after he, his head tattoos and his attitude had slimed off into the sunset. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, John Lyell wrote: > At what we would pay him it is worth a try, if it doesn't work out we Darius Miles him! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "JoeFan11111 at aol.com" > To: wayoftheray at yahoo.com; celtics at igtc.com; celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 9:28:16 AM > Subject: Re: Marbury Marbury Marbury > > Woohoo, the dreaded Marbury name again. There's no quit in you > RayoftheWay. If it's any consolation, Donny Marshall agrees > with you that the Celts should look into signing Starbury. > > What a tangled mess caused in part by the Knicks handling of Marbury. > He's obviously their best guard but after teasing him by even starting > him in a couple of preseason games suddenly when the season > arrived they told him they wouldn't allow him to play as they were > going in another direction. The Knicks owner seems as stupid > and culpable to me as both Isaih and Marbury. Poor D'Antoni > surrounded by these jerks. The Knicks should just bite the bullet, > waive Marbury, and go on from there. > > I agree we could use another PG. Rondo is good, but he also has the > best supporting cast in the NBA. And his lack of 3 pointers and > terrible FT% plague him. As for his being the best PG in the > East and a deserving all star as some here have advanced, > young Devin Harris who is ripping up the league would have > an argument with that. Also young Calderon in Toronto and > younger sensation Rose in Chicago. And don't forget perennial > bad boy Iverson (crazy trade for Detroit) still has lots left. > Also Ford, Nelson, and Bibby are having good years despite > being on lesser teams than Rondo. > > Does Rondo make the Celts are do the Celts make Rondo? > Hey, I like that line. > > Joe > > > > > > ************** > Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& > ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Dec 1 13:18:10 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:18:10 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: <130593.40296.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <130593.40296.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KB700AR4V6BBUF1@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> At 02:32 PM 12/1/2008, John Lyell wrote: >At what we would pay him it is worth a try, if it doesn't work out >we Darius Miles him! What we would pay is a) the salary for the player we have to cut to make room for him, since unlike last year we don't have empty roster spots, b) the luxury tax on that salary, c) whatever we pay Marbury and d) the luxury tax on that, when we're already $10MM into luxury tax territory. And no we don't Darius Miles him since that was a non-guaranteed contract, which won't fly with Marbury who wouldn't be in this situation if he would do anything just to win like take a non-guaranteed contract just for a shot, so we'd still be paying him and the luxury tax on his full salary, on top of - god forbid - a third salary and tax if we cut him to sign someone else everyone is drooling after instead. If that's your idea of worth a try, given the all too likely results based on Marbury's too long history (including his recent refusal to even play when NY needed bodies and reported refusal to accept an offer to be starting SG - his preferred position - for the rest of the season), and the fact that we don't NEED him vs the idea of him being merely something you want, I hope you aren't running your family's budget. Kim From stevebknight at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 13:43:58 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:43:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: rondo References: Message-ID: <623093.58932.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i'll take a shot at your question. i think rondo is inextricably tied to the celtic's success, no less a part than garnett, pierce and ray. and obviously he has more growth in him than any of the big 3. anybody mad now that we didn't resign posey? it was posey or not being able to resign rondo. a no-brainer. Message: 12 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:28:16 EST From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com Subject: Re: Marbury Marbury Marbury To: wayoftheray at yahoo.com, celtics at igtc.com, celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Woohoo, the dreaded Marbury name again. There's no quit in you RayoftheWay. If it's any consolation, Donny Marshall agrees with you that the Celts should look into signing Starbury. What a tangled mess caused in part by the Knicks handling of Marbury. He's obviously their best guard but after teasing him by even starting him in a couple of preseason games suddenly when the season arrived they told him they wouldn't allow him to play as they were going in another direction. The Knicks owner seems as stupid and culpable to me as both Isaih and Marbury. Poor D'Antoni surrounded by these jerks. The Knicks should just bite the bullet, waive Marbury, and go on from there. I agree we could use another PG. Rondo is good, but he also has the best supporting cast in the NBA. And his lack of 3 pointers and terrible FT% plague him. As for his being the best PG in the East and a deserving all star as some here have advanced, young Devin Harris who is ripping up the league would have an argument with that. Also young Calderon in Toronto and younger sensation Rose in Chicago. And don't forget perennial bad boy Iverson (crazy trade for Detroit) still has lots left. Also Ford, Nelson, and Bibby are having good years despite being on lesser teams than Rondo. Does Rondo make the Celts are do the Celts make Rondo? Hey, I like that line. Joe From bgoudreau at verizon.net Mon Dec 1 20:08:11 2008 From: bgoudreau at verizon.net (Robert Goudreau) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:08:11 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: NO NO NO NO Marbury.......forever Goody From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Dec 1 21:19:38 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:19:38 -0500 Subject: Have they considered.... Message-ID: <0KB80028YHGRCQZ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> I love Perk, I really do. I was the one saying focus on what he could become not what he'll never be all that time in the past most of the rest of you wanted to give him up for a bag of used basketballs, and they didn't even have to be in full bouncing condition. So don't get me wrong, but have they considered wiring his mouth shut before they send him out there? Bless Cassell for veteran leadership in distracting the refs into throwing him out from the bench rather than Perk when he was begging for it earlier, but even that couldn't save him. He still had to keep going after them all game long until he finally got a nice shiny technical of his own. And I was there, so I don't know how much they showed on TV, but it's not like he didn't give them cause before that, even after Cassell had to save him. The refs were actually relatively forbearing, given that he was yapping at them and making faces etc continually, at every call and every non-call. You just can't do that. And you sure as hell don't do it when you're teetering closer and closer to the edge of that costing you games that your team can't afford to have you out for. From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 04:14:59 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 04:14:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: it's never too early Message-ID: <102330.71306.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Since I declined the League Pass this year--after all, we have 20 plus TV games before the playoffs--I will try to watch more college ball.? Really, the younger the more fun, which shows how old I'm getting.? Well, there is some crazy talent out there and also some mature basketball talent.? My interest has always been in finding the level of player that we might draft, and that's more fun with us drafting low. My early pick for circa #30 is Danny Green, UNC.? I really have no idea whether he is late lottery or late first round material, but he's a player.? At 6' 6" or so, he plays at 2 and 3 for the Tarheels.? He has the luxury of being the third or fourth option which gets him good shots, and he is deceptively effective from the outside and also in close.? He's an excellent defender and leaper while having a great sense of the game.? If you search for talent by checking statistics, you won't find him.? But he's the player who is often the key to victory due to his all-around skills.? Think Rick Fox, but bigger, faster, and better at every phase of the game.? He projects to be a great sixth man, and, at 6' 6" should not go too high in the draft.? While Billy Walker could be a starter/star of sorts, Green would more likely be a Tony Allen, but without the baggage.? I really like this guy.? Enjoying the season.? Gene From JoeFan11111 at aol.com Tue Dec 2 05:33:47 2008 From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com (JoeFan11111 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:33:47 EST Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: In a message dated 12/1/08 4:18:38 PM, kmalo17 at verizon.net writes: > What we would pay is > a) the salary for the player we have to cut to make room for him, > since unlike last year we don't have empty roster spots, > b) the luxury tax on that salary, > c) whatever we pay Marbury and > d) the luxury tax on that, > ? when we're already $10MM into luxury tax territory. > > And no we don't Darius Miles him since that was a non-guaranteed > contract, which won't fly with Marbury who wouldn't be in this > situation if he would do anything just to win like take a > non-guaranteed contract just for a shot, so we'd still be paying him > and the luxury tax on his full salary, on top of - god forbid - a > third salary and tax if we cut him to sign someone else everyone is > drooling after instead. > > I'm a fan, not a Celtics' accountant. Frankly I'm not concerned with the Celtics' luxury tax consequences. Are you really? Is anyone complaining about wasting aid luxury cap money on Cassell and O'Bryant who have been absolutely no help? With or without Marbury or any other FA signings, we're over the cap whether or not we add and drop yet another player. The owners must have made a fortune last year on attendance as we filled the Garden and stretched out the playoffs to so many games. Can't exactly feel bad for them. > If that's your idea of worth a try, given the all too likely results > based on Marbury's too long history (including his recent refusal to > even play when NY needed bodies and reported refusal to accept an > offer to be starting SG - his preferred position - for the rest of > the season), and the fact that we don't NEED him vs the idea of him > being merely something you want, I hope you aren't running your > family's budget. > > Kim > Look, I think Marbury is as bonkers as they come, he's really a fool. But most teams have several fools anyway so why couldn't any team with strong character leaders use his talents as either a starting or backup PG? Miami? Plus he must really have a point to make after being so dissed and toyed with by the Knicks. Aren't the big three stable enough (well maybe not crazy guy Garnett) to control such a player. I disagree that we couldn't use Marbury. Except for sinking a few 3 pointers every 2nd or 3rd game, House is not the answer. I'd rather have Marbury as our backup for aprrox. the same money plus the additional luxury tax which you are so concerned about. Joe ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From bosox18 at charter.net Tue Dec 2 06:14:53 2008 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:14:53 -0500 Subject: Have they considered.... In-Reply-To: <0KB80028YHGRCQZ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KB80028YHGRCQZ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <721DA76007624A9B84C49F39D01B0E18@StevePC> At this point, Perk is going to be suspended by midseason -- and then every third game after that. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Kim Malo Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:20 AM To: Cs eList Subject: Have they considered.... I love Perk, I really do. I was the one saying focus on what he could become not what he'll never be all that time in the past most of the rest of you wanted to give him up for a bag of used basketballs, and they didn't even have to be in full bouncing condition. So don't get me wrong, but have they considered wiring his mouth shut before they send him out there? Bless Cassell for veteran leadership in distracting the refs into throwing him out from the bench rather than Perk when he was begging for it earlier, but even that couldn't save him. He still had to keep going after them all game long until he finally got a nice shiny technical of his own. And I was there, so I don't know how much they showed on TV, but it's not like he didn't give them cause before that, even after Cassell had to save him. The refs were actually relatively forbearing, given that he was yapping at them and making faces etc continually, at every call and every non-call. You just can't do that. And you sure as hell don't do it when you're teetering closer and closer to the edge of that costing you games that your team can't afford to have you out for. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 11:04:24 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:04:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Have they considered.... In-Reply-To: <0KB80028YHGRCQZ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <810526.6448.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, Perk has secretly been attending the Antoine Walker school of on-court diplomacy. The refs might have shown *some* restraint (they did call 7 techs on the Cs throughout the night--if that's restraint I'd hate to see the opposite), but the ref who finally gave Perk the tech showed absolutely no restraint at all; in fact it appeared that he was looking to call a tech, so much so that he missed an obviously goal tending call. As shown on the broadcast last night, Perk shot it, Howard blocked it after it hit the backboard (automatic goal tending), Perk turned around to say, "It hit the backboard, ref," and as another ref was signaling goal tending the ref nearest Perk (who should have had the goal tending call--but missed it) called the tech. That ref should have made the goal tending call and when Perk told him so he gave him a tech instead of reversing himself. Total bullshit. Perk did nothing in that span of 2 seconds to warrant a tech. And if you look at Perk 9 techs this year, most of them are of that same variety. Small or non-existent outbursts, followed by puzzling techs. As I wrote in another post, the Celtics have become a target and Perk is getting the brunt of it, since the Big 3 still carry a lot of respect amongst officials. And the amount of respect afforded the Big 3 is directly proportional to the amount of respect Perk doesn't get. In the same game last night, Rashard Lewis cussed and made menacing hand gestures for about 5 seconds before he was finally given a tech and then he slowly walked the length of the court to give a menacing stare to the ref who T-ed him up. Where's the same restraint for Perk? Perk was reacting to a missed call in the moment it happened with relatively few words and a tiny gesture and the ref was all over him, waiting to give him a tech. Bullshit! As for Cassell, he might be the only player ever to record a +/- of -2 without even getting into the game. As Doc said, every player played their role to a T last night. Ryan --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: Have they considered.... > To: "Cs eList" > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 11:19 PM > I love Perk, I really do. I was the one saying focus on what > he could become not what he'll never be all that time in > the past most of the rest of you wanted to give him up for a > bag of used basketballs, and they didn't even have to be > in full bouncing condition. > > So don't get me wrong, but have they considered wiring > his mouth shut before they send him out there? Bless Cassell > for veteran leadership in distracting the refs into throwing > him out from the bench rather than Perk when he was begging > for it earlier, but even that couldn't save him. He > still had to keep going after them all game long until he > finally got a nice shiny technical of his own. > > And I was there, so I don't know how much they showed > on TV, but it's not like he didn't give them cause > before that, even after Cassell had to save him. The refs > were actually relatively forbearing, given that he was > yapping at them and making faces etc continually, at every > call and every non-call. You just can't do that. And > you sure as hell don't do it when you're teetering > closer and closer to the edge of that costing you games that > your team can't afford to have you out for. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 11:13:10 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:13:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <289029.92340.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Young Calderon, Harris et al all have one thing going against them: Their teams suck. So, unless putting up numbers on shitty teams is all of a sudden grounds for making the All-Star team, then I think Rondo still has a pretty good chance. It's pretty easy to put up big numbers on a bad team, especially if you're a point guard. The balls always in your hands. Rondo, on the other hand, is playing point guard like it supposed to be played: high assists, low turnovers, great defense, and pace regulation. I'm not sure how his 'lack of 3 pointers and terrible FT%' have hurt him so much. He can get anywhere he wants to, even if the team is playing off him. Hell, last night he showed that if they play off him, he'll just take a few dribbles, get closer and drain a 10 footer in their grill. Rondo cannot be guarded and he's absolutely making this team go. He IS the catalyst for this, anyone with two eyes can see that. Watch the 2nd unit run without him--they don't! If Rondo was ever out for an extended period of time, we'd have major problems. Yes, the Cs have great stars and good supporting players, but they all work so well together for one simple reason: Rajon Rondo. Ryan --- On Mon, 12/1/08, JoeFan11111 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree we could use another PG. Rondo is good, but he also > has the > best supporting cast in the NBA. And his lack of 3 pointers > and > terrible FT% plague him. As for his being the best PG in > the > East and a deserving all star as some here have advanced, > > young Devin Harris who is ripping up the league would have > an argument with that. Also young Calderon in Toronto and > > younger sensation Rose in Chicago. And don't forget > perennial > bad boy Iverson (crazy trade for Detroit) still has lots > left. > Also Ford, Nelson, and Bibby are having good years despite > being on lesser teams than Rondo. > > Does Rondo make the Celts are do the Celts make Rondo? > Hey, I like that line. > > Joe > > > > > > ************** > Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& > ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 11:23:30 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:23:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <340845.8385.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> You're probably right, this team, as great as it is, as ubuntu as it is, probably could control Marbury, maybe even reform Marbury. But we're not in the reformation business, we're in the winning business and he's just not worth the potential distraction. See, I don't think our PG position is in as dire straights as you want to think it is. Yes, we have backup point guard issues. Some games we get away with it, some games we struggle. But the Ws and Ls are determined by Rondo and what he's doing in his 30 minutes, and not what House is doing in his 18. Above and beyond discussions of our backup point guard problem, the real question is whether Marbury even adequately addresses the situation. I'm not sure he does. He's more Iverson than Billups. He's more a shooter than a facilitator. He's, at best, a better dribbling and stronger version of Eddie House, who has to score to be successful. Is that really going to give us that much more? I'm not sure it does, especially considering the risks involved in taking on more salary, cutting a player, upsetting the rotation, all for a certified team killer. Just doesn't make any sense. The difference between Eddie House for 18 minutes as opposed to Marbury for 18 minutes is not discernable. Bottom line: there's no way we break up a 17 and 2 team for a certified team killer. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/2/08, JoeFan11111 at aol.com wrote: > From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com > Subject: Re: Marbury Marbury Marbury > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:33 AM > Look, I think Marbury is as bonkers as they come, he's > really > a fool. But most teams have several fools anyway so why > couldn't > any team with strong character leaders use his talents as > either > a starting or backup PG? Miami? Plus he must really have > a point > to make after being so dissed and toyed with by the Knicks. > > Aren't the big three stable enough (well maybe not > crazy guy > Garnett) to control such a player. > > I disagree that we couldn't use Marbury. Except for > sinking a few > 3 pointers every 2nd or 3rd game, House is not the answer. > I'd rather have > Marbury as our backup for aprrox. the same money plus the > additional > luxury tax which you are so concerned about. > > Joe > > > > > > > ************** > Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& > ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 11:25:10 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:25:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: it's never too early In-Reply-To: <102330.71306.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90495.11441.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Thanks for the heads up, Gene. I'm just about the opposite. I put all my time into NBA basketball and then try to play catch up with college ball sometime around February. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/2/08, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > From: gene kirkpatrick > Subject: it's never too early > To: "celtics" > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:14 AM > Since I declined the League Pass this year--after all, we > have 20 plus TV games before the playoffs--I will try to > watch more college ball.? Really, the younger the more fun, > which shows how old I'm getting.? Well, there is some > crazy talent out there and also some mature basketball > talent.? My interest has always been in finding the level > of player that we might draft, and that's more fun with > us drafting low. > > My early pick for circa #30 is Danny Green, UNC.? I really > have no idea whether he is late lottery or late first round > material, but he's a player.? At 6' 6" or so, > he plays at 2 and 3 for the Tarheels.? He has the luxury of > being the third or fourth option which gets him good shots, > and he is deceptively effective from the outside and also in > close.? He's an excellent defender and leaper while > having a great sense of the game.? If you search for talent > by checking statistics, you won't find him.? But > he's the player who is often the key to victory due to > his all-around skills.? Think Rick Fox, but bigger, faster, > and better at every phase of the game.? He projects to be a > great sixth man, and, at 6' 6" should not go too > high in the draft.? While Billy Walker could be a > starter/star of sorts, Green would more likely be a Tony > Allen, but without the baggage.? I really like this guy.? > > Enjoying the season.? Gene > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 14:22:37 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:22:37 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KB900IKUSTP9VQ4@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> At 08:33 AM 12/2/2008, JoeFan11111 at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/1/08 4:18:38 PM, kmalo17 at verizon.net writes: > > > What we would pay is > > a) the salary for the player we have to cut to make room for him, > > since unlike last year we don't have empty roster spots, > > b) the luxury tax on that salary, > > c) whatever we pay Marbury and > > d) the luxury tax on that, > > when we're already $10MM into luxury tax territory. > > > > And no we don't Darius Miles him since that was a non-guaranteed > > contract, which won't fly with Marbury who wouldn't be in this > > situation if he would do anything just to win like take a > > non-guaranteed contract just for a shot, so we'd still be paying him > > and the luxury tax on his full salary, on top of - god forbid - a > > third salary and tax if we cut him to sign someone else everyone is > > drooling after instead. > > > > >I'm a fan, not a Celtics' accountant. Wow, and here I was assuming... >Frankly I'm not concerned with the >Celtics' luxury tax consequences. Are you really? Personally no, but in how it affects what they'll do, yeah. Shoe shopping for guys aka transaction talk bores me to tears to begin with because I'm just not into shopping and that's all it is, but I've never understood the very concept of getting all worked up about it without understanding the basic rules and truths and insisting they have to do stuff that requires an alternate universe. Obviously I'm in the minority on that. But even without that I wasn't asking you for precision about the details you didn't know or care about, I was pointing out why you were wrong in what you did actually say. Which happens to involve those details. See above about my not understanding the very concept of getting all worked up based on pretending they don't exist. >Is anyone complaining >about wasting aid luxury cap money on Cassell and O'Bryant who have >been absolutely no help? Different situation and you don't know enough to state that. Have they helped in games? No. Well, until Cassell kept Perk on the court longer last night. You don't see practice however, and regardless of what Iverson says, that's a big part of things, with Cassell at least a big help there by all published reports. While POB at least provides a needed warm body - that's part of why Bill Walker stayed longer here before going to the NBDL, they needed the bodies for practice. >With or without Marbury or any other FA signings, we're over the cap >whether or not we add and drop yet another player. And I untentionally didn't mention the cap. They're two different things. >The owners must >have made a fortune last year on attendance as we filled the Garden >and stretched out the playoffs to so many games. Can't exactly >feel bad for them. Not asking you to. Pointing to realities. They went further over the cap when it made sense to based on return, such as PJ. We don't need Marbury vs you wanting him and the likely reward just isn't worth the risk / cost. >Look, I think Marbury is as bonkers as they come, he's really >a fool. But most teams have several fools anyway so why couldn't >any team with strong character leaders use his talents as either >a starting or backup PG? Miami? Plus he must really have a point >to make after being so dissed and toyed with by the Knicks. >Aren't the big three stable enough (well maybe not crazy guy >Garnett) to control such a player. Fine, but again, not worth the cost to risk that not happening because of the luxury tax consequences and losing the player we have to cut to get him. It won't be Scal so don't even bother. >I disagree that we couldn't use Marbury. Which again is NOT what I said. I said we don't actively need him. Two different things. >Except for sinking a few >3 pointers every 2nd or 3rd game, House is not the answer. I'd rather have >Marbury as our backup for aprrox. the same money plus the additional >luxury tax which you are so concerned about. Oh give it a rest. I'm not so concerned about it. But whether you like it or not, it is a factor in getting what you want. Kim From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 14:23:13 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: Have they considered.... In-Reply-To: <810526.6448.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <0KB80028YHGRCQZ2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> <810526.6448.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KB900ICCSUQI5R7@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> At 02:04 PM 12/2/2008, Ryan W wrote: >As for Cassell, he might be the only player ever to record a +/- of >-2 without even getting into the game. As Doc said, every player >played their role to a T last night. Nice one : ) Kim From JoeFan11111 at aol.com Wed Dec 3 03:52:04 2008 From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com (JoeFan11111 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 06:52:04 EST Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury Message-ID: >> I was pointing out why you were wrong in what you did actually say. Hey Kim, sorry for stepping in and challenging you on your detailed post which was actually in response to another list member. >From your response, I guess stepping in was a no-no. John Lyell wrote: >At what we would pay him it is worth a try, if it doesn't work out >we Darius Miles him! However it's reassuring that someone on this list is always at the ready to straighten out all of us morons who you perceive as not knowing the difference between the cap and the luxury tax. Joe ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From callmebogie at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 06:28:42 2008 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 06:28:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: '09 draft? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <131052.80400.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Gene Kirkpatrick wrote: > My early pick for circa #30 is Danny Green, UNC.? I really > have no idea whether he is late lottery or late first round > material, but he's a player.? At 6' 6" or so, > he plays at 2 and 3 for the Tarheels.? He has the luxury of > being the third or fourth option which gets him good shots, > and he is deceptively effective from the outside and also in > close.? He's an excellent defender and leaper while > having a great sense of the game.? If you search for talent > by checking statistics, you won't find him.? But > he's the player who is often the key to victory due to > his all-around skills.? Think Rick Fox, but bigger, faster, > and better at every phase of the game.? He projects to be a > great sixth man, and, at 6' 6" should not go too > high in the draft.? While Billy Walker could be a > starter/star of sorts, Green would more likely be a Tony > Allen, but without the baggage.? I really like this guy.>> Gene, do the Cs have a pick circa #30? I thought they traded their '09 first rounder to Minnesota as part of the KG trade. Did they pick up another late first/early second pick at some point? Hard to keep track of Trader Dan's every move. And count me among those who has no interest in Marbury. Somehow I don't think KG will be showing up on his doorstep and entreating him to join the Cs a la PJ Brown. But why not consider Plaxico Burress as an alternative - he's got great length and he's clearly a heckuva shooter. :-) Michael Gooen From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 06:53:57 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 06:53:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Technically Speaking Message-ID: <797611.70455.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey Y'all, here's a good blurb from the Globe today about the Cs technical difficulties. Seems we are being targeted, just like I suspected. Refs are telling our bench guys--before the game starts--to sit down; Rondo's getting T'd up for saying, "Can I ask you one question," and we have 14(!) more technicals than the next nearest team in the league. Give me a break! from: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/12/03/pacers_proved_no_pushovers/ Technically speaking The Celtics were assessed five technical fouls by referee Bob Delaney's crew against Orlando, bringing their season total to 39. "I am concerned because we are at 39 and the next team is at 25," Rivers said. "I don't know what it is but somehow we've got to do a better job." Rivers said the Celtics' spirited play and support from the reserves has gained the attention of officials. "Part of our makeup is our energy, and we're not going to stop being that," said Rivers. "We're an emotional team, that's part of our makeup. We can't get it to the point where we're getting techs, but you can't legislate guys having energy and having fun with each other. We're having refs, before games, now tell our guys to sit down, or stop standing up. And I'm thinking, that's a good image. When you are looking at a game and you see a team cheering and standing up, and then you look at another bench and they are all sitting down, which image would you want? So, I don't get that whole thing. So, I'm not going to legislate that." The Celtics reserves have been standing until the team converts its first field goal. "It's a big thing every night," Rivers said. "And it's not an act - that's who they are. We have lively guys on the bench. They are cheering for their teammates and not yelling things at the other team - they may be, but not a lot." Against Orlando, Sam Cassell was ejected from the bench; Kevin Garnett was involved in a double-technical call with Orlando's Dwight Howard; Kendrick Perkins received his ninth technical of the season; and Rajon Rondo received the second technical of his three-year career. "Rajon didn't deserve it for what he said," said Rivers. "But we have to have a better feeling about the game. I saw Bob Delaney say, 'Get away from him [another official].' And Rajon walks up and says, 'Can I ask you one question?' That's all he said, and he gets a technical. But if they are saying get away from him, then get away." From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Dec 3 08:11:42 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:11:42 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KBB002K46CKY0H8@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> At 06:52 AM 12/3/2008, JoeFan11111 at aol.com wrote: > >> I was pointing out why you were wrong in what you did actually say. > >Hey Kim, sorry for stepping in and challenging you on your >detailed post which was actually in response to another list member. > >From your response, I guess stepping in was a no-no. No idea how you came up with this idea and certainly no apology required. >John Lyell wrote: > >At what we would pay him it is worth a try, if it doesn't work out > >we Darius Miles him! > >However it's reassuring that someone on this list is always at the >ready to straighten out all of us morons who you perceive as not >knowing the difference between the cap and the luxury tax. Sweetie, I don't really care what you do or don't know, nor do I stay up nights worrying about people's IQ, and if you think I correct everyone every time they get something about the cap or the tax wrong, you haven't been paying attention. But if you tell me I'm wrong about something to do with the salary cap when I've been talking specifically and exclusively about the luxury tax, this is you begging to be corrected not me looking for reasons to do so. So as a fan of the idea what IS it exactly that makes Marbury so attractive despite the fact that signing him isn't as cost free as people assume? No question about his enormous talent, but equally no question it comes with a lot of baggage, some of which has probably interfered with the development of that talent. And I just don't see him being non-disruptive spending most of his time on the bench as a third option at PG, which is why I think he would be because he's become so unreliable and defense is largely something other guys play. Wanting another backup PG in general is one thing, but why the salivating over this one whose talent has largely left destruction in its wake? Kim From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 3 08:37:14 2008 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:37:14 -0400 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: <0KBB002K46CKY0H8@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KBB002K46CKY0H8@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: > So as a fan of the idea what IS it exactly that makes Marbury so > attractive despite the fact that signing him isn't as cost free as > people assume? No question about his enormous talent, but equally no > question it comes with a lot of baggage, some of which has probably > interfered with the development of that talent. And I just don't see > him being non-disruptive spending most of his time on the bench as a > third option at PG, which is why I think he would be because he's > become so unreliable and defense is largely something other guys > play. Wanting another backup PG in general is one thing, but why the > salivating over this one whose talent has largely left destruction in its wake?> > Kim > This is my question as well. With the obvious team chemistry we have, what with everyone buying into UBUNTU, why would we want to take a chance on a disgruntled sorehead who has shown no tendency to put the team above his personal wishes? Isn't this precisely the kind of player who goes against all the principles of Celtic basketball? Perhaps I could have a greater understanding if we were struggling and in need of his services...but with Rondo progressing with every game at the point, and with Paul bringing the ball up when he feels like it anyway, I don't see the upside of taking a chance on Marbury. Even House has been playing good defense lately and Tony has shown flashes. If anything, I would take a shot at Kaman who could be the odd man out since the additions of Randolph and Camby. And even then, I am not sure who/what we would have to give up for him. Cecil _________________________________________________________________ From stevebknight at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 09:19:28 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:19:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: rondo References: Message-ID: <841298.39392.qm@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> you're singing to the choir on this one, ryan. rondo's health is the key to us repeating, because he is what makes the team go. in my mind, he is an equal to the big 3 in terms of what he does for the team. speaking of which, think of how incredibly well balanced our starting 5 is--a shooter, a penetrator, a heart and soul, a distributor and an intimidator. damn, danny is good. Message: 9 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Marbury Marbury Marbury To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <289029.92340.qm at web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Young Calderon, Harris et al all have one thing going against them: Their teams suck. So, unless putting up numbers on shitty teams is all of a sudden grounds for making the All-Star team, then I think Rondo still has a pretty good chance. It's pretty easy to put up big numbers on a bad team, especially if you're a point guard. The balls always in your hands. Rondo, on the other hand, is playing point guard like it supposed to be played: high assists, low turnovers, great defense, and pace regulation. I'm not sure how his 'lack of 3 pointers and terrible FT%' have hurt him so much. He can get anywhere he wants to, even if the team is playing off him. Hell, last night he showed that if they play off him, he'll just take a few dribbles, get closer and drain a 10 footer in their grill. Rondo cannot be guarded and he's absolutely making this team go. He IS the catalyst for this, anyone with two eyes can see that. Watch the 2nd unit run without him--they don't! If Rondo was ever out for an extended period of time, we'd have major problems. Yes, the Cs have great stars and good supporting players, but they all work so well together for one simple reason: Rajon Rondo. Ryan From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Dec 3 10:41:29 2008 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:41:29 -0500 Subject: rondo In-Reply-To: <841298.39392.qm@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <841298.39392.qm@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB238DE3C178C4-878-265@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Health in general is the key.? Last year, how many games did the starting five miss?? KG missed about 8?? Did anyone else miss any significant number?? Look at the Patriots - one player goes down and they become a mediocre-good team instead of 18-1.? Meanwhile, the Lakers lost last night.? Out here in LA land, there is little point to playing any more games - the Lakers are champs already.? At least, that's what it seems to say in the media. -----Original Message----- From: steve knight To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 9:19 am Subject: Re: rondo you're singing to the choir on this one, ryan. rondo's health is the key to us repeating, because he is what makes the team go. in my mind, he is an equal to the big 3 in terms of what he does for the team. speaking of which, think of how incredibly well balanced our starting 5 is--a shooter, a penetrator, a heart and soul, a distributor and an intimidator. damn, danny is good. From kmalo17 at verizon.net Wed Dec 3 12:26:30 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:26:30 -0500 Subject: Marbury Marbury Marbury In-Reply-To: References: <0KBB002K46CKY0H8@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <0KBB00DLUI2AOKW1@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> At 11:37 AM 12/3/2008, Cecil Wright wrote: >This is my question as well. With the obvious team chemistry we >have, what with everyone buying into UBUNTU, why would we want to >take a chance on a disgruntled sorehead who has shown no tendency to >put the team above his personal wishes? Isn't this precisely the >kind of player who goes against all the principles of Celtic basketball? Well the answer people will give to this is the Randy Moss to the Patriots one - it's because we're so ubuntu that we're the team who can turn him around. It's not impossible, and I honestly don't see him disrupting this team very much, I just don't see the odds being very good on a real turnaround to justify the risk / cost. >Perhaps I could have a greater understanding if we were struggling >and in need of his services...but with Rondo progressing with every >game at the point, and with Paul bringing the ball up when he feels >like it anyway, I don't see the upside of taking a chance on >Marbury. Even House has been playing good defense lately And doing a better job of handling pressure when he brings the ball up / getting the offense going vs standing around dribbling. While you can't neglect his being deadly on his shot again, especially as part of sometimes offensively impaired second unit. >and Tony has shown flashes. If anything, I would take a shot at >Kaman who could be the odd man out since the additions of Randolph >and Camby. And even then, I am not sure who/what we would have to >give up for him. Yeah, exactly, I probably didn't make it clear enough that I'm not thinking the luxury tax stuff will necessarily petrify them into doing nothing regardless of who is involved, it just makes it much less likely they'll do something unless they're a) acting out of real need or b) likely high reward. Especially given the management team's track record, when they were willing to pay last year for people like PJ when there were the same tax issues but a potentially great reward, but not in previous years when the benefit of signing someone putting you into luxury tax trouble wasn't enough for them to do it, because one player just wasn't going to make us enough better. Since a) doesn't apply, that's why I was in effect asking about b). Kim From douglas342 at aol.com Wed Dec 3 13:54:28 2008 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:54:28 -0500 Subject: Marbury and friends Message-ID: <8CB23A8D9232B67-13FC-B31@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! Stephon Marbury Latrell Sprewell Marvin Barnes From martind42 at cox.net Wed Dec 3 14:13:18 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:13:18 -0500 Subject: Marbury and friends In-Reply-To: <8CB23A8D9232B67-13FC-B31@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20081203171318.MUWTR.17874.imail@eastrmwml10> JR Ryder and Sydney Wicks? ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! > > Stephon Marbury > Latrell Sprewell > Marvin Barnes > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Eric at ericalbert.net Wed Dec 3 22:23:05 2008 From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:23:05 -0500 Subject: Rondo Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081204012207.111baa58@ericalbert.net> Wow. -- Eric From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 4 01:59:22 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 01:59:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Rondo for All-Star Game 2009 + Random Thoughts Message-ID: <123399.58970.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Count me as a believer that Rondo should be in the All Star game this year. I was undecided over the last few games but now I firmly believe that Rondo is an All Star and if he gets squeezed out this year for Allen Iverson or another popular player then he will certainly be a frontrunner for the All-Star game in 2010. It will depend on the All Star voting and who is the starting point guard. But it may well be 2 shooting guards in the starting lineup such as Dwayne Wade and Joe Johnson as well as Devin Harris as the first point guard on the bench. But Rondo definitely deserves to be there. Rondo seems to be in the midst of *another* breakout year. However, he hasn?t really had a breakout season as yet, he has just steadily improved his game. So this may be, in fact, Rondo?s breakout season ? 6 months after he guided one of the most storied sports franchises to their first Championship in 22 years. Where amazing happens indeed? :) ---- Something that I thought of last night on the way home from basketball practice: The 2 most crippling trades over the past 10 years were the Billups trade for Kenny Anderson and Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk trade (which did help us to make the Eastern Conference Finals in 2002 but then it crippled us? again). There is a silver lining though- those 2 players, Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson, were part of the fodder teams en route to the Celtics? Championship? ?now that feels good! In fact, it feels great! ? (Speaking of Kenny Anderson, I was also thinking that Rondo?s ball-handling is quite similar to Kenny?s, although Rondo is better in almost every other facet of the game. Especially leadership) ---- One last random thought: Back in the 90s, if someone told me that we would have 15+ years of bad teams but it would end in a dream run in 2008, I probably would have stopped watching NBA basketball (for 15 years at least ha ha). Also, I?m not sure if I would trade the 15+ bad years for 1 GREAT year if I had the choice. But now that we?re here, we?re winning consistently and we have the 17th Championship Banner in the new Boston Garden, it all seems worth it. It feels so much sweeter that we battled through the horrendous mid-to-late 90s and also the last few years of losing teams? the record-breaking 18 game losing streak and all (although I do applaud the young players from those years that developed the team into what it is today). Here?s to a winning Celtics team for the next 15+ years? and beyond? :) ? (if I wasn?t at work right now I would raise a glass of champagne and toast to the thought of it) Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 04:20:05 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 04:20:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: teams Message-ID: <801018.36040.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So far, this is a great year for my teams.? The Celts seem improved in some areas--Ray Allen has hit his stride and improves our inside game to boot, Rondo is a wonder whose effectiveness does not depend on triple-double type numbers, and the other old guys and young guys are playing their roles well.? Looking forward to Christmas day! Also, my Tarheels? appear to be as good as any college team I've ever seen.? Last night's trouncing of Michigan State was amazing-perhaps the best team since that of Jordan, Worthy, Perkins.? I think that, of their top 12 players, six are first round picks (when they come out) and the other six are close but certain second rounders; awesome talent.? So, team basketball is "in."? But what or who does ESPN lead with last night (among the pros)?? Of course, LeBron.? At minute 19, they finally got around to the Celts.? Cheers, Gene From callmebogie at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 07:50:55 2008 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:50:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sad alumni news Message-ID: <644922.62324.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This is horrible. Rodney Rogers was a key part of the only bright interval we Celtics fans had between the original Big Three and Big Three Point One. I still remember attending a Celtics-Nets preseason game in the fall of 2002 (with list alumni Josh Ozersky and Joe Hironaka), standing courtside with Chris Wallace (a pox on him) and hearing Wallace ask us: "Salary cap aside, who would you rather have - Vin Baker or Rodney Rogers?" Rather than answer Wallace, I yelled at the Nets' layup line "We miss you, Rodney! Thanks for a great run last year!" He smiled and waved back. I will pray for him. >From espn.com: Former NBA and college basketball star Rodney Rogers is paralyzed as the result of an all-terrain vehicle accident, his college coach told the News & Observer of Raleigh-Durham, N.C. Dave Odom, who coached Rogers when he earned All-America honors at Wake Forest and was the 1993 ACC Player of the Year, said Wednesday that his former star is paralyzed from the shoulders down, according to the report. "Say a prayer for Rodney and his family,'' Odom said, according to the newspaper. Rogers, 37, who had a 12-year NBA career and won the league's Sixth Man Award in 1999-2000, was riding in the woods in rural Vance County, N.C., last week when he fell off the vehicle, according to the North Carolina Highway Patrol, the newspaper reported. He was recently transferred from Duke Hospital to the Shepherd Center in Atlanta, which specializes in rehabilitation for people with catastrophic injuries. A Durham native who starred in high school football and basketball, Rogers had returned to his hometown and was working for the city public works department as a heavy machinery operator. He was promoted to a supervisory position six months ago, according to the report. He was also volunteering as a girls' basketball coach at a Durham middle school and had set up a computer lab at a city public housing complex, according to the report. His agent and lawyer, James "Butch" Williams, described Rogers as "an outdoorsman, plain and simple," according to the report. "He hunts, motorcycles, rides horses. He loves big trucks," Williams said. Rogers, who was financially set, took the job with the Durham DPW because he liked working with heavy trucks, Williams said, according to the report. "Rodney isn't the type to sit around twiddling his thumbs. There aren't any jobs he considers too small for him," Williams said, according to the News and Observer. "He started his own trucking company and was usually the lead driver. He'd be out there driving to the quarry at 3:30 in the morning." Michael Balzarano, who oversaw Rogers at the Durham DPW, said Rogers was not working for the city as a lark until he got bored. "I didn't even know he had lots of money. He is very friendly, very concerned, very conscientious," Balzarano said, according to the report. "We chose him because of his ethics and his attitude. He was highly motivated. He was promoted to supervisor six months ago." Rogers entered the NBA as the first-round draft choice of the Denver Nuggets in 1993. He played for the Nuggets, Los Angeles Clippers, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, New Orleans Hornets and Philadelphia 76ers until retiring after the 2004-05 season. He reached the NBA Finals with the Nets in 2002-03, and his trade to the Celtics during the 2001-02 season sparked Boston on a run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 12 seasons Rogers averaged 25.3 minutes and 10.9 points per game and shot 34.7 percent from 3-point range. From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 08:05:53 2008 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:05:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench Message-ID: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's like having caviar with mashed potatoes... December 15th. Chop Chop. Move them out, move them in. Ray From noah.evans at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 09:26:03 2008 From: noah.evans at gmail.com (Noah Evans) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:26:03 -0600 Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench In-Reply-To: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56a297000812040926t66ef8eadm20723915e31e7d7a@mail.gmail.com> "Passive-aggressive personality disorder (also called negativistic personality disorder) is a personality disorder said to be marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Way Of The Ray wrote: > It's like having caviar with mashed potatoes... > > December 15th. > > Chop Chop. > > Move them out, move them in. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From bosox18 at charter.net Thu Dec 4 09:30:18 2008 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 12:30:18 -0500 Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench In-Reply-To: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, the season is falling apart, right before our very eyes. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Way Of The Ray Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:06 AM To: Celtics Stuff; Celtics Are Idiots List Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench It's like having caviar with mashed potatoes... December 15th. Chop Chop. Move them out, move them in. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From callmebogie at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 10:28:42 2008 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <216204.19214.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time > "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! > > > > Stephon Marbury > > Latrell Sprewell > > Marvin Barnes How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a paycheck") Rowe? And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? From pdbauer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 10:32:23 2008 From: pdbauer at yahoo.com (Paul Bauer) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:32:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Earth To Way of the Ray In-Reply-To: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <116619.71161.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We're 18-2 --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Way Of The Ray wrote: From: Way Of The Ray Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:05 AM It's like having caviar with mashed potatoes... December 15th. Chop Chop. Move them out, move them in. Ray _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 11:02:57 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:02:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench In-Reply-To: <780849.34486.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <308916.62794.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Counting last night, the bench has had 3 bad games all season. It's not THAT bad. And Tony Allen was out last night too; and he's our best bench player. You are right, though, the bench does have some problems, namely because House can't run the team very well. He's been better, but he still has those games where the offense just grinds to a halt when he takes over. Our best manner of improvement isn't making a trade or bringing in a released headcase; it's merely improving from within. I think by the end of the season we're going to see two things that will alleviate the problems brought by House's inability to run a team effectively: 1. Rondo's going to play more. As Doc said in the postgame last night, Rondo's improvement is mental--his focus has been razor sharp in the last two weeks. He's going to be an All-Star and I expect him to be playing up towards 35 minutes a game by the end of the season. 2. Gabe Pruitt getting minutes and House becoming more of a specialist than he already is. In keeping with Doc's tradition with young players, I think he's going to play his veterans until January and then slowly work in the younger players. If Eddie keeps shooting 10 percent under his career average from 3, it might even be sooner. Bottom line though: Gabe does everything better than Eddie, especially when it comes to running the team. If we want to improve the 2nd team, it starts with giving Gabe a shot (moving Eddie to the 2-guard and putting Tony at 3). Ryan --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Way Of The Ray wrote: > From: Way Of The Ray > Subject: Earth To Danny Ainge: Fix The Damn Bench > To: "Celtics Stuff" , "Celtics Are Idiots List" > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:05 AM > It's like having caviar with mashed potatoes... > > December 15th. > > Chop Chop. > > Move them out, move them in. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jozersky at optonline.net Thu Dec 4 12:51:29 2008 From: jozersky at optonline.net (jozersky at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:51:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Sad alumni news In-Reply-To: <644922.62324.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <644922.62324.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I remember that too. I hope he can get some mobility back. They don't say what his prognosis is.----- Original Message -----From: Michael Gooen Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:51 amSubject: Sad alumni newsTo: Celtics List > This is horrible. Rodney Rogers was a key part of the only > bright interval we Celtics fans had between the original Big > Three and Big Three Point One. I still remember attending a > Celtics-Nets preseason game in the fall of 2002 (with list > alumni Josh Ozersky and Joe Hironaka), standing courtside with > Chris Wallace (a pox on him) and hearing Wallace ask us: > "Salary cap aside, who would you rather have - Vin Baker or > Rodney Rogers?" Rather than answer Wallace, I yelled at the > Nets' layup line "We miss you, Rodney! Thanks for a great run > last year!" He smiled and waved back.> > I will pray for him.> > >From espn.com:> > > Former NBA and college basketball star Rodney Rogers is > paralyzed as the result of an all-terrain vehicle accident, his > college coach told the News & Observer of Raleigh-Durham, N.C. > > > Dave Odom, who coached Rogers when he earned All-America honors > at Wake Forest and was the 1993 ACC Player of the Year, said > Wednesday that his former star is paralyzed from the shoulders > down, according to the report. > > "Say a prayer for Rodney and his family,'' Odom said, according > to the newspaper. > > Rogers, 37, who had a 12-year NBA career and won the league's > Sixth Man Award in 1999-2000, was riding in the woods in rural > Vance County, N.C., last week when he fell off the vehicle, > according to the North Carolina Highway Patrol, the newspaper > reported. He was recently transferred from Duke Hospital to the > Shepherd Center in Atlanta, which specializes in rehabilitation > for people with catastrophic injuries. > > A Durham native who starred in high school football and > basketball, Rogers had returned to his hometown and was working > for the city public works department as a heavy machinery > operator. He was promoted to a supervisory position six months > ago, according to the report. > > He was also volunteering as a girls' basketball coach at a > Durham middle school and had set up a computer lab at a city > public housing complex, according to the report. > > His agent and lawyer, James "Butch" Williams, described Rogers > as "an outdoorsman, plain and simple," according to the report. > "He hunts, motorcycles, rides horses. He loves big trucks," > Williams said. > > Rogers, who was financially set, took the job with the Durham > DPW because he liked working with heavy trucks, Williams said, > according to the report. > > "Rodney isn't the type to sit around twiddling his thumbs. There > aren't any jobs he considers too small for him," Williams said, > according to the News and Observer. "He started his own trucking > company and was usually the lead driver. He'd be out there > driving to the quarry at 3:30 in the morning." > > Michael Balzarano, who oversaw Rogers at the Durham DPW, said > Rogers was not working for the city as a lark until he got > bored. > > "I didn't even know he had lots of money. He is very friendly, > very concerned, very conscientious," Balzarano said, according > to the report. "We chose him because of his ethics and his > attitude. He was highly motivated. He was promoted to supervisor > six months ago." > > Rogers entered the NBA as the first-round draft choice of the > Denver Nuggets in 1993. He played for the Nuggets, Los Angeles > Clippers, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, New > Orleans Hornets and Philadelphia 76ers until retiring after the > 2004-05 season. He reached the NBA Finals with the Nets in 2002-> 03, and his trade to the Celtics during the 2001-02 season > sparked Boston on a run to the Eastern Conference finals. > > In 12 seasons Rogers averaged 25.3 minutes and 10.9 points per > game and shot 34.7 percent from 3-point range.> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics> From kmalo17 at verizon.net Thu Dec 4 15:09:21 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:09:21 -0500 Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) In-Reply-To: <216204.19214.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <216204.19214.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBD004RXKBMD8A2@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> At 01:28 PM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: > > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my > > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time > > "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I > > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with > > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! > > > > > > Stephon Marbury > > > Latrell Sprewell > > > Marvin Barnes > >How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a paycheck") Rowe? > >And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? Yeah, probably. Reportedly a nice guy whose teammates here liked him. Couldn't rely on him, but liked him. Curtis Rowe's a good one though. Wasn't Todd Day supposed to be a real jerk and actively disliked by all and sundry? From Mafiaso316 at aol.com Thu Dec 4 15:12:58 2008 From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:12:58 EST Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) Message-ID: Allen Practice, we'll talking about practice. Iverson In a message dated 12/4/2008 6:09:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kmalo17 at verizon.net writes: At 01:28 PM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: > > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my > > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time > > "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I > > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with > > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! > > > > > > Stephon Marbury > > > Latrell Sprewell > > > Marvin Barnes > >How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a paycheck") Rowe? > >And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? Yeah, probably. Reportedly a nice guy whose teammates here liked him. Couldn't rely on him, but liked him. Curtis Rowe's a good one though. Wasn't Todd Day supposed to be a real jerk and actively disliked by all and sundry? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net Thu Dec 4 15:56:25 2008 From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:56:25 -0500 Subject: Good Guys vs. Bad Guys Message-ID: <20081204235636.559D1E18247@ignite.igtc.com> Ok, let's settle this nonsense where some sadly misinformed people have been brainwashed into thinking that the &$#&^#*^%#^ Lakers were somehow supposed to be better than the Celtics. I believe after 20 games we can begin to make decent comparisons. The current game-by game record: Celtics Lakers 01. Oct 28 v. Cleveland W Oct 28 v. Portland W 02. Oct 31 v. Chicago W Oct 29 @ LA Clippers W 03. Nov 01 @ Indiana L Nov 01 @ Denver W 04. Nov 04 @ Houston W Nov 05 v. LA Clippers W 05. Nov 05 @ Oklahoma W Nov 09 v. Houston W 06. Nov 07 v. Milwaukee W Nov 11 @ Dallas W 07. Nov 09 @ Detroit W Nov 12 @ New Orleans W 08. Nov 10 v. Toronto W Nov 14 v. Detroit L 09. Nov 12 v. Atlanta W Nov 18 v. Chicago W 10. Nov 14 v. Denver L Nov 20 @ Phoenix W 11. Nov 15 @ Milwaukee W Nov 21 v. Denver W 12. Nov 18 v. New York W Nov 23 v. Sacramento W 13. Nov 20 v. Detroit W Nov 25 v. New Jersey W 14. Nov 21 @ Minnesota W Nov 28 v. Dallas W 15. Nov 23 @ Toronto W Nov 30 v. Toronto W 16. Nov 26 v. Golden State W Dec 02 @ Indiana L 17. Nov 28 v. Philadelphia W Dec 03 @ Philadelphia W 18. Nov 29 @ Charlotte W Next game Dec 05 19. Dec 01 v. Orlando W 20. Dec 03 v. Indiana W Now, take a look at the above and a few things become quite obvious. First, the Celtics have played more games in a shorter timespan than the Lakers. Next, the home/away ratio shows that Boston has played 8 away games, where the Lakers have played only 7--with one of those being against the Clippers, who share a building with them. In the back-to back games, Boston has played 5 such sets, losing only 1 game in the sets, to Denver. The Lakers have played 4 such, losing 1 game to Indiana. Then, there's the overall record. Boston is 18-2, while the Lakers are merely 15-2. While I'm forced to admit it's closer than it should be, consider also that this is with a Celtics team that lost players that the "experts" say we desperately needed, while the Lakers have players back they did not have last June. According to those so-called "experts", the Lakers should be doing what the Celtics did last year, totally destroying opponents, and Boston should be a markedly lesser team. Yet the C's are the ones on a 10 game winning streak, while the L' s (for Losers) are a much more mortal 8-2 in their last 10 games. Some people try to downplay the December 25 game where the Good Guys meet the Bad Guys again. This game is important to BOTH teams. Boston beat the Lakers in the short-shorts game, then utterly destroyed the Lakers on national television in the Finals. No more excuses for the Fakers. They got all their guys, they supposedly amped up their defense. Let's put this nonsense to rest. From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net Thu Dec 4 15:59:51 2008 From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:59:51 -0500 Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) In-Reply-To: <0KBD004RXKBMD8A2@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> References: <216204.19214.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <0KBD004RXKBMD8A2@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20081204235958.F3D1AE18247@ignite.igtc.com> Can't have the anti-ubuntu team without corresponding Owner and Coach: The despicable John Y. Brown (and co-conspirator Phyllis George) as the Owner and the walking disaster area, Isaiah Thomas as the Coach. At 06:09 PM 12/4/2008, Kim Malo wrote: >At 01:28 PM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: >> > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: >> > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my >> > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time >> > "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I >> > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with >> > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! >> > > >> > > Stephon Marbury >> > > Latrell Sprewell >> > > Marvin Barnes >> >>How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a paycheck") Rowe? >> >>And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? > >Yeah, probably. Reportedly a nice guy whose teammates here liked >him. Couldn't rely on him, but liked him. Curtis Rowe's a good one >though. Wasn't Todd Day supposed to be a real jerk and actively >disliked by all and sundry? >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Thu Dec 4 16:10:50 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:10:50 -0500 Subject: Sad alumni news In-Reply-To: <644922.62324.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <644922.62324.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBD00JIZN499Y73@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> Yeah, I've been following the story since I first heard a few days ago when they were less definite about where things stood. Thanks for posting. Definitely a big help that season and a really good guy. Didn't know what he'd been up to since retirement, but the no job too small, didn't even know he had money outdoorsman of the article sounds about right for the guy he was. Kim At 10:50 AM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: >This is horrible. Rodney Rogers was a key part of the only bright >interval we Celtics fans had between the original Big Three and Big >Three Point One. I still remember attending a Celtics-Nets >preseason game in the fall of 2002 (with list alumni Josh Ozersky >and Joe Hironaka), standing courtside with Chris Wallace (a pox on >him) and hearing Wallace ask us: "Salary cap aside, who would you >rather have - Vin Baker or Rodney Rogers?" Rather than answer >Wallace, I yelled at the Nets' layup line "We miss you, >Rodney! Thanks for a great run last year!" He smiled and waved back. > >I will pray for him. > > >From espn.com: > > >Former NBA and college basketball star Rodney Rogers is paralyzed as >the result of an all-terrain vehicle accident, his college coach >told the News & Observer of Raleigh-Durham, N.C. > > >Dave Odom, who coached Rogers when he earned All-America honors at >Wake Forest and was the 1993 ACC Player of the Year, said Wednesday >that his former star is paralyzed from the shoulders down, according >to the report. > >"Say a prayer for Rodney and his family,'' Odom said, according to >the newspaper. From kmalo17 at verizon.net Thu Dec 4 16:21:39 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:21:39 -0500 Subject: Maybe as impressive in a different way as the triple double Message-ID: <0KBD00MR1NO5WVJ3@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> "It's easy to see why Pierce likes his young point guard. Rondo recited from memory the number of shots each of the Big Three got tonight." from http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2008/12/rondo_making_a.html It's easy to see why Pierce likes his young point guard. Rondo recited from memory the number of shots each of the Big Three got tonight. His goal, he says, is to put Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett in the best position to score. "Just keeping everyone happy," said Rondo. "I create a lot of shots, but they create their own shots. They're great scorers. They've been making a lot of them over their entire career." From jlyell at verizon.net Thu Dec 4 16:22:06 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:22:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Good Guys vs. Bad Guys Message-ID: <245382.88219.qm@web84003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In So. Cal they still think this is the laker team & year, and they are very athletic and Ariza & Farmar have been playing well. Didn't we play last Christmas and Tony played well and Perk abused Bynum in LA I believe? Tony will be key to the second squad, but we need a quick defender/shooter John ________________________________ From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 3:56:25 PM Subject: Good Guys vs. Bad Guys Ok, let's settle this nonsense where some sadly misinformed people have been brainwashed into thinking that the &$#&^#*^%#^ Lakers were somehow supposed to be better than the Celtics.? I believe after 20 games we can begin to make decent comparisons. The current game-by game record: Celtics? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Lakers 01. Oct 28 v. Cleveland W? ? ? ? ? Oct 28 v. Portland W 02. Oct 31 v. Chicago W? ? ? ? ? ? ? Oct 29 @ LA Clippers W 03. Nov 01 @ Indiana L? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 01 @ Denver W 04. Nov 04 @ Houston W? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 05 v. LA Clippers W 05. Nov 05 @ Oklahoma W? ? ? ? ? Nov 09 v. Houston W 06. Nov 07 v. Milwaukee W? ? ? ? Nov 11 @ Dallas W 07. Nov 09 @ Detroit W? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 12 @ New Orleans W 08. Nov 10 v. Toronto W? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 14 v. Detroit L 09. Nov 12 v. Atlanta W? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 18 v. Chicago W 10. Nov 14 v. Denver L? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 20 @ Phoenix W 11. Nov 15 @ Milwaukee W? ? ? ? ? Nov 21 v. Denver W 12. Nov 18 v. New York W? ? ? ? ? Nov 23 v. Sacramento W 13. Nov 20 v. Detroit W? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 25 v. New Jersey W 14. Nov 21 @ Minnesota W? ? ? ? ? Nov 28 v. Dallas W 15. Nov 23 @ Toronto W? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nov 30 v. Toronto W 16. Nov 26 v. Golden State W? ? ? Dec 02 @ Indiana L 17. Nov 28 v. Philadelphia W? ? ? ? Dec 03 @ Philadelphia W 18. Nov 29 @ Charlotte W? ? ? ? ? ? Next game Dec 05 19. Dec 01 v. Orlando W 20. Dec 03 v. Indiana W Now, take a look at the above and a few things become quite obvious.? First, the Celtics have played more games in a shorter timespan than the Lakers.? Next, the home/away ratio shows that Boston has played 8 away games, where the Lakers have played only 7--with one of those being against the Clippers, who share a building with them.? In the back-to back games, Boston has played 5 such sets, losing only 1 game in the sets, to Denver.? The Lakers have played 4 such, losing 1 game to Indiana.? Then, there's the overall record.? Boston is 18-2, while the Lakers are merely 15-2. While I'm forced to admit it's closer than it should be, consider also that this is with a Celtics team that lost players that the "experts" say we desperately needed, while the Lakers have players back they did not have last June.? According to those so-called "experts", the Lakers should be doing what the Celtics did last year, totally destroying opponents, and Boston should be a markedly lesser team. Yet the C's are the ones on a 10 game winning streak, while the L' s (for Losers) are a much more mortal 8-2 in their last 10 games.? Some people try to downplay the December 25 game where the Good Guys meet the Bad Guys again.? This game is important to BOTH teams.? Boston beat the Lakers in the short-shorts game, then? utterly destroyed the Lakers on national television in the Finals.? No more excuses for the Fakers.? They got all their guys, they supposedly amped up their defense.? Let's put this nonsense to rest. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 09:30:36 2008 From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:30:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury and friends References: <8CB23A8D9232B67-13FC-B31@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <303982.85205.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Curtis "W" Rowe and Sidney "L" Wicks ________________________________ From: "douglas342 at aol.com" To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 4:54:28 PM Subject: Marbury and friends All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! Stephon Marbury Latrell Sprewell Marvin Barnes _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 09:32:36 2008 From: asterix_9_9 at yahoo.com (asterix ninetynine) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) References: <216204.19214.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <0KBD004RXKBMD8A2@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <147469.90220.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Vince Carter, anyone? ________________________________ From: Kim Malo To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 6:09:21 PM Subject: Re: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) At 01:28 PM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: > > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick through my > > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the NBA's all-time > > "good chemistry" team, the champions of ubuntu.? I > > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only come up with > > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my rooster! > > > > > > Stephon Marbury > > > Latrell Sprewell > > > Marvin Barnes > >How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a paycheck") Rowe? > >And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? Yeah, probably. Reportedly a nice guy whose teammates here liked him. Couldn't rely on him, but liked him. Curtis Rowe's a good one though. Wasn't Todd Day supposed to be a real jerk and actively disliked by all and sundry? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From JoeFan11111 at aol.com Fri Dec 5 14:59:15 2008 From: JoeFan11111 at aol.com (JoeFan11111 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:59:15 EST Subject: Newsday mixed signals Message-ID: Marbury situation settled next week? by Alan Hahn, Dec. 5 Critical update from a loyal Fixer and ESPN Radio announcer Jon Rothstein, who just called us with some news about the Marbury situation. A person close to Stephon Marbury told him that Marbury expects the situation with the Knicks to be resolved within a week. Marbury took the $1 million giveback offer off the table to push the Knicks to get something done, but it is believed he will return to the table with Donnie Walsh and the Knicks, along with his union counsel, Hal Biagas, and resume negotiations to complete the buyout process. Rothstein is also saying that Marbury intends to choose between the Miami Heat, Boston Celtics or Orlando Magic as his next destination. I will say here that Orlando sounds like a logical destination because Jameer Nelson has been somewhat disappointing this season and the Magic could use help in the back court. To my knowledge, the Heat and Celtics aren't viable options. It is to my understanding that the Dallas Mavericks, who have moved Jason Terry to the bench and are starting Gerald Green, could also be in the mix. Rothstein, who is a well-connected basketball junkie and does a great job covering college hoops for ESPN Radio, was just on with Mike Tirico and Scott van Pelt on 1050 and will be on the air again at 2:10 p.m. and will have a spot with Michael Kay. Stay tuned . . . ************** Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From callmebogie at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 16:40:30 2008 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:40:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <468820.25085.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Forget Vin Baker. I can't BELIEVE I missed the starting center for the all-time anti-ubuntu team: Mark Blount. I can't believe Blount managed to avoid playing for Isiah Thomas' Knicks. Perhaps that'll happen in hell. :-) > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:09:21 -0500 > From: Kim Malo > Subject: Re: Anti-ubuntu (or is it "un-buntu"?) > To: celtics at igtc.com > Message-ID: <0KBD004RXKBMD8A2 at vms042.mailsrvcs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > At 01:28 PM 12/4/2008, Michael Gooen wrote: > > > ---- douglas342 at aol.com wrote: > > > > All the talk about Marbury made me flick > through my > > > meagre NBA knowledge to come up with the > NBA's all-time > > > "good chemistry" team, the champions of > ubuntu.? I > > > welcome the thoughts of others.? I could only > come up with > > > three of my starters, though.? Please fill in my > rooster! > > > > > > > > Stephon Marbury > > > > Latrell Sprewell > > > > Marvin Barnes > > > >How about Curtis ("ain't no ws or ls on a > paycheck") Rowe? > > > >And would it be unfair to include Vin Baker? > > Yeah, probably. Reportedly a nice guy whose teammates here > liked him. > Couldn't rely on him, but liked him. Curtis Rowe's > a good one though. > Wasn't Todd Day supposed to be a real jerk and actively > disliked by > all and sundry? From pdelevett at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 17:33:42 2008 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:33:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Thoughts while watching the Blazers game Message-ID: <236837.78825.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I wouldn't swap last season for anything ... still, when I think about what might have been had Danny not done the Telfair trade... imagine Jefferson, Rondo and Brandon Roy all on the same team, with Gomes, Perkins, Green, Delonte and Tony rounding out the roster. They might not have ever won a championship, but that would have been a good young team and fun to watch for many years. For all the hand-wringing we did about not getting Oden, I'm not sure he's the one I'd pick if I could have anybody off the Blazers roster. From kmalo17 at verizon.net Sat Dec 6 00:02:14 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 03:02:14 -0500 Subject: Couple of good Cs related articles on SI Message-ID: <0KBG00GCW3NNA679@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Great one about Pierce, providing context to a bunch of things, including that opening night speech. Not a lot that hasn't been in the news before, but it doesn't usually get strung together like this http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1149382/index.htm?eref=sisf Another on divergent paths of KG and Marbury that actually came across as a knowledgeable but fairly impartial analysis until the bitterness at the end made me guess it was someone who'd covered the Twolves http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/12/05/garnett.marbury/index.html?eref=si_topstories From cecilw45 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 6 06:59:57 2008 From: cecilw45 at hotmail.com (Cecil Wright) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:59:57 -0400 Subject: Baby Message-ID: There really is something to be said about the virtues of recording these games as I would not have seen the timeout incident involving KG and Davis. I'm pretty sure that some on this list will think KG is a "little bit" over the top with his dramatics and vociferous nature. But I am of the opinion that this is a man who is driven by an intense desire to win and play at such a level, well, we can only imagine what it is like. For my money, any guy who is advocated by the great Bill Russell, is A#1 in my book. So for Big Baby to act like a big baby during a dressing down from Garnett shows that he still has a bit of maturing left to do. I didn't notice anyone else in that huddle throwing towels to the floor and crying, and I doubt that he was the only one who was mentioned by Garnett, who takes his share of the blame when the situation calls for it. BB would be wise to listen to the words of such a committed teammate who wants to help his mates achieve to the highest possible level. I watched Garnett closely in the 2nd half and he was like a demon defensively, challenging anyone within his range including point guards. His effort cannot be disputed, and while I was not privy to his comments in that huddle, I think the probability is high that "effort" was what he was discussing. Garnett could just mind his own business, take his incredible paycheck and go home. He could kick back when he is not on the floor and yuk it up with Cassell. He could sarcastically applaud the effort of the role players. Or he could do whatever is necessary to help get the team to where it wants to go...to a repeat. One day, BB will thank KG for trying to help him out. I wouldn't doubt, down the road, that BB may even dress down a teammate or two himself when he has paid his dues and is in such a position. Cecil (does anyone else remember me saying I loved the Rondo pick by Ainge) :-) _________________________________________________________________ From jlyell at verizon.net Sat Dec 6 08:48:55 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:48:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Baby Message-ID: <668797.22001.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree 100%.?That was pretty embarassing for Davis, he was actually in tears. If only all teams had a KG that could fire them up or give them an attitude adjustment when necessary. It helps if you have 2 or 3 vets that back up each others. if Baby doesn't live and learn, he won't be a Celtic for long In looking back to the trades that brought us?Rondo and Powe,?and even Davis, Ainge looks like a genius. after years of bad drafts & trades. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if we would not have moved Billups & Joe Johnson ________________________________ From: Cecil Wright To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 6:59:57 AM Subject: Baby There really is something to be said about the virtues of recording these games as I would not have seen the timeout incident involving KG and Davis.? I'm pretty sure that some on this list will think KG is a "little bit" over the top with his dramatics and vociferous nature.? But I am of the opinion that this is a man who is driven by an intense desire to win and play at such a level, well, we can only imagine what it is like.? For my money, any guy who is advocated by the great Bill Russell, is A#1 in my book. So for Big Baby to act like a big baby during a dressing down from Garnett shows that he still has a bit of maturing left to do.? I didn't notice anyone else in that huddle throwing towels to the floor and crying, and I doubt that he was the only one who was mentioned by Garnett, who takes his share of the blame when the situation calls for it. BB would be wise to listen to the words of such a committed teammate who wants to help his mates achieve to the highest possible level.? I watched Garnett closely in the 2nd half and he was like a demon defensively, challenging anyone within his range including point guards.? His effort cannot be disputed, and while I was not privy to his comments in that huddle, I think the probability is high that "effort" was what he was discussing.? Garnett could just mind his own business, take his incredible paycheck and go home.? He could kick back when he is not on the floor and yuk it up with Cassell.? He could sarcastically applaud the effort of the role players.? Or he could do whatever is necessary to help get the team to where it wants to go...to a repeat. One day, BB will thank KG for trying to help him out.? I wouldn't doubt, down the road, that BB may even dress down a teammate or two himself when he has paid his dues and is in such a position. Cecil (does anyone else remember me saying I loved the Rondo pick by Ainge) :-)? _________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 14:26:56 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:26:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Baby In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17203.4803.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I watched the Comcast feed and they didn't show one bit of the Baby breakdown. Then I turn over to ESPN for the highlights, and they're exploiting the hell out of it. Baby will be fine; KG rightfully laid into him and the 2nd team because they were playing terrible (it be a different story if TA were out there, and Doc was playing Pruitt--but that's a different post). Baby's an emotional kid and he let his emotions get the best of him; that said, I'll take emotion any day. That means he cares and that he's engaged in the moment. He's got some growing to do, but everyone does. He'll be fine; in fact, he and KG shared a high-five as the game was ending, so they're cool. Back to ESPN: what a network of douches! I'm tired of their anti-Boston agenda. The teaser to Sportscenter last night started with a 20 second montage of Kobe, then a 10 second montage of Lebron, and then two Cs highlights, followed by an ominous reference to Baby's breakdown. And then they spent probably a 1/4 of their highlight time talking about the KG/Baby interaction and the closeups of Baby crying. Really, it was disgusting, and unduly exploitive. The story was the 11-game win streak and the beatdown given the Blazers, not Big Baby. ESPN simply goes out of their way to paint the Cs in a harsh light, from Mike Breen on down. Ryan --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Cecil Wright wrote: > From: Cecil Wright > Subject: Baby > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 8:59 AM > There really is something to be said about the virtues of > recording these games as I would not have seen the timeout > incident involving KG and Davis. I'm pretty sure that > some on this list will think KG is a "little bit" > over the top with his dramatics and vociferous nature. But > I am of the opinion that this is a man who is driven by an > intense desire to win and play at such a level, well, we can > only imagine what it is like. For my money, any guy who is > advocated by the great Bill Russell, is A#1 in my book. > > So for Big Baby to act like a big baby during a dressing > down from Garnett shows that he still has a bit of maturing > left to do. I didn't notice anyone else in that huddle > throwing towels to the floor and crying, and I doubt that he > was the only one who was mentioned by Garnett, who takes his > share of the blame when the situation calls for it. > > BB would be wise to listen to the words of such a committed > teammate who wants to help his mates achieve to the highest > possible level. I watched Garnett closely in the 2nd half > and he was like a demon defensively, challenging anyone > within his range including point guards. His effort cannot > be disputed, and while I was not privy to his comments in > that huddle, I think the probability is high that > "effort" was what he was discussing. > > Garnett could just mind his own business, take his > incredible paycheck and go home. He could kick back when he > is not on the floor and yuk it up with Cassell. He could > sarcastically applaud the effort of the role players. Or he > could do whatever is necessary to help get the team to where > it wants to go...to a repeat. > > One day, BB will thank KG for trying to help him out. I > wouldn't doubt, down the road, that BB may even dress > down a teammate or two himself when he has paid his dues and > is in such a position. > > Cecil (does anyone else remember me saying I loved the > Rondo pick by Ainge) > > :-) > _________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jbrainin at verizon.net Sat Dec 6 14:34:49 2008 From: jbrainin at verizon.net (Jonathan Brainin) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:34:49 -0500 Subject: Baby In-Reply-To: <17203.4803.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <17203.4803.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8BCA52D0-31A0-4C0F-955F-096F694C8C63@verizon.net> Concerning ESPN's coverage, I find it amusing that after they spent the entirety of last season attacking the C's bench as woeful and inadequate that they should be stating now that the bench is, again, woefully inadequate due to the loss of Posey and P.J. Brown. (From the mouth of Van Gundy last night.) Benches have their ups and downs throughout a season, but I'll still take our bench--on the floor, playing their asses off, over a bench that looks great on paper but just can't produce. Jonathan On Dec 6, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Ryan W wrote: > I watched the Comcast feed and they didn't show one bit of the Baby > breakdown. Then I turn over to ESPN for the highlights, and they're > exploiting the hell out of it. Baby will be fine; KG rightfully > laid into him and the 2nd team because they were playing terrible > (it be a different story if TA were out there, and Doc was playing > Pruitt--but that's a different post). Baby's an emotional kid and > he let his emotions get the best of him; that said, I'll take > emotion any day. That means he cares and that he's engaged in the > moment. He's got some growing to do, but everyone does. He'll be > fine; in fact, he and KG shared a high-five as the game was ending, > so they're cool. > > Back to ESPN: what a network of douches! I'm tired of their anti- > Boston agenda. The teaser to Sportscenter last night started with a > 20 second montage of Kobe, then a 10 second montage of Lebron, and > then two Cs highlights, followed by an ominous reference to Baby's > breakdown. And then they spent probably a 1/4 of their highlight > time talking about the KG/Baby interaction and the closeups of Baby > crying. Really, it was disgusting, and unduly exploitive. The > story was the 11-game win streak and the beatdown given the Blazers, > not Big Baby. ESPN simply goes out of their way to paint the Cs in > a harsh light, from Mike Breen on down. > > Ryan From BDodgers at aol.com Sat Dec 6 18:19:50 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:19:50 EST Subject: Divergent paths of KG and Steph Message-ID: Steve Aschburner > INSIDE THE NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/steve_aschburner/archive/) Divergent paths of KG and Steph Story Highlights Kevin Garnett and Stephon Marbury were once close teammates with the Wolves Their careers have played out much differently since they parted ways While KG went on to win an NBA title, Marbury is in a standoff with the Knicks I haven't written about the NBA long enough to have covered players whose shorts had belt buckles, coaches wearing leisure suits or referees invoking the three-to-make-two free-throw rule. But I have written about the league long enough to remember vividly the days when teams would plead with Stephon Marbury to stay, rather than to stay away. Such a long time ago. Tracking the trajectory of Marbury's career since his arrival in the NBA in June 1996 is like following the stock price of your average American metropolitan newspaper over pretty much the same time period. Started out high, showed tremendous promise for a few years, then began a tumultuous slide of churning, setbacks, redefinitions, bonehead mistakes and now, at the end of some seriously negative slope, ashes and rubble. Sticking with the business jargon, the balance sheet of Marbury's assets and liabilities at the moment screams "Sell!'' and any sports biography that gets written about him should end, symbolically if not financially, at Chapter 11. Compare that, now, to the trajectory of Kevin Garnett's career. Plot it on a graph and superimpose it on Marbury's. Then try to tell me it doesn't look like an overlay of Facebook on Enron or Seth Rogen on Eddie Murphy, a crazy "X'' lopsided to the right, one line trending upward, the other trending nowhere. The remarkable thing is that Marbury and Garnett started out, in an NBA sense, in the same place. They were drafted by the Timberwolves 12 months apart, with Minnesota picking fifth both times (Marbury actually went at No. 4 but was immediately dealt for the No. 5 pick, Ray Allen, and a center named Andrew Lang). They were schooled by the same coach, Flip Saunders, and indoctrinated by the same organization, headed by Hall of Famer Kevin McHale. They shared the same agent, Eric Fleisher, and countless cell-phone conversations. The vision many had for the two of them also was shared: new millennium Stockton and Malone or, at least, a reset of Payton and Kemp. To nudge the growth process along, McHale signed a pair of stable veterans, one a guard, one a forward, to serve as resources and mentors. Terry Porter and Sam Mitchell -- both of whom would become head coaches in the league, Porter currently in Phoenix, Mitchell until a few days ago in Toronto -- moved into lockers adjacent to the young players. "Go figure, huh? The brain trust was smart, bringing those two veterans in here,'' Porter said recently, chuckling. "It was interesting. It was a fun time, me and Sam having a chance to talk to KG and Steph on a regular basis, and talk about the league and talk about the game. Both of them at the time were just young kids very excited about being in the league, wanting to be the best players they could be. There was a lot of excitement with those two guys around. You get all that youth in practice, jumping around all the time. It was a lot of fun.'' And if someone could have told Porter then how very different Marbury's and Garnett's careers would play out, with one getting an NBA championship ring and the other an endless string of DNPs? "That would have surprised me. Yeah,'' the Suns' coach said, his smile flattening. Had they spent all their wisdom on one guy, in a hoops version of the ol' "Mom loved you best'' bit by the Smothers Brothers? There was a considerable difference in duration, for what it's worth: Mitchell spent six years immediately to Garnett's right, taking him all the way through his crawl, walk and run phases as an NBA player. Porter had two years next to Marbury before the vet got neglected by Wolves management in the postlockout signing scramble in January 1999 and grabbed a roster spot in Miami. By then, though, Marbury already was kicking off his training wheels, hiring agent David Falk and deciding that Minnesota was nowhere to stay. It went like that, one way or another, in New Jersey and Phoenix, too. This wouldn't be the first time two siblings (literal or, in this case, figurative), raised under the same roof, by the same parents, same rules, ended up drastically different. Literature and USA Network movies are rife with good-evil twins. "We're not close at all, not really as close as we used to be,'' Garnett told a Boston reporter this week. "I haven't really been following [the Marbury situation]. I watch it here and there when I go through the locker room when it's on TV. I hear about it. It's unfortunate. But I haven't been following it or had an assessment of it.'' Garnett took and embodied the NBA's biggest gamble in 20 years when he dipped his toes into professional waters straight out of high school in 1995. Marbury arrived 12 months later as "Starbury,'' a supposed sure thing who spent most of his single season at Georgia Tech resenting the nine-inch height difference that allowed Garnett a head start. That one year became a forever wedge between them when Garnett soon qualified for a $126 million contract under one collective bargaining agreement and Marbury had the glass ceiling of a maximum $71 million contract imposed by a different CBA. One had been raised in a semirural area outside of Greenville, S.C., where his stepdad took the backboard down from the garage. The other grew up in a basketball-driven family in Brooklyn. Garnett spent an unsettled senior year in Chicago before rolling his dice on the NBA. Marbury already was "Coney Island's Finest'' before he led Lincoln High to the PSAL championship in New York that same spring, with a coach who still is making excuses for him. "I wish people knew him the way I know him,'' former Lincoln coach Bobby Hartstein told the New York Post the other day. "I'm not saying he hasn't made any mistakes, but you think: What did he do to bring this on himself? Absolutely nothing.'' Never forget, though, that one of these two guys came into the league wanting to be successful enough to lead a team to an NBA title, and he did that. The other wanted to be successful and star for the NBA team in New York, and he has spoiled that. Steve Aschburner covered the Minnesota Timberwolves and the NBA for 13 seasons for the Minneapolis Star Tribune. He has served as president or vice president of the Professional Basketball Writers Association since 2005. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sun Dec 7 02:54:47 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 02:54:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Weekend Dime: What the scouts are seeing and saying Message-ID: <728062.3530.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Rajon's the frontrunner according to one scout: From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-081206-07 East scout on the top three point guards in his conference "Coming into the year I'd have said that [Jose] Calderon is the best true point guard of the group. Based on what we've seen so far, I'll say [Rajon] Rondo, then [Devin] Harris, then [Derrick] Rose. I've only seen Rose in person a couple times, but everything you've heard is true: He's pretty darn good already. But I'll put Harris just ahead of him; New Jersey's [new] style of play really works to his benefit. "The thing about that [dribble-drive] offense is that when [Harris] gets the ball with a dribble handoff, he's at full speed ? and he's already quick. So he's another step ahead of the defender who's playing catch-up. He's always been a pretty good aggressive driver, but he's been able to attack even more than he used to in Dallas. I don't think [Harris] has to think as much. He uses his instincts, looks to score first and is playing at a really high level." Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 06:19:41 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 06:19:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: the Baby thing Message-ID: <657128.13860.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> my take:? a.? Davis had an excellent second quarter; he hustled, played defense, passed--did all with great energy? b. in the fourth, he failed to cover Powe's man who got behind them and scored an easy basket; he took a one-on-one move and failed to score c.? he was removed for POB d. Pierce came in and failed to convert on two successive moves while the Blazers were warming up and scoring e.? we had Scal, Pierce, POB, House and Powe in there, deferring to Pierce who did little Conclusions:? Davis might have taken it personally when he was pulled for POB; Doc over-reacted by putting most of the starters back in; Garnett over-reacted by dressing down the bench; without a true point guard out there (or Allen) they have less chance for a shot-in-the-flow; besides, it never really was a solid 25 point lead; sliding to 13 was too much, but inserting Rondo would have calmed the waters; in the end, Garnett's heat could have valuable results and Davis needs to learn patience--the hardest thing for any of these guys who were the man in college--plus, play Pruitt when we need a point guard during garbage time From bosox18 at charter.net Sun Dec 7 07:17:49 2008 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:17:49 -0500 Subject: the Baby thing In-Reply-To: <657128.13860.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <657128.13860.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9105BB04226A4B6DB10C2F080A240EC4@StevePC> I like Big Baby -- though I never thought I'd get to see him act like one -- but I think it's time to accept his limitations and see if O'Bryant can play. Davis simply can't finish inside in the NBA -- call it the Antoine syndrome -- and his jump shot is too sporadic to be a weapon. He passes the ball well and pushes people around on defense, but he's always going to be of limited value. I think O'Bryant would definitely be more of an offensive threat and a shot blocker, and probably a better rebounder. I say give the 7-footer a chance. He can't handle the ball like Big Baby and he'll probably get lost on defense, at least at first, but there's really not much to lose. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of gene kirkpatrick Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:20 AM To: celtics Subject: the Baby thing my take:? a.? Davis had an excellent second quarter; he hustled, played defense, passed--did all with great energy? b. in the fourth, he failed to cover Powe's man who got behind them and scored an easy basket; he took a one-on-one move and failed to score c.? he was removed for POB d. Pierce came in and failed to convert on two successive moves while the Blazers were warming up and scoring e.? we had Scal, Pierce, POB, House and Powe in there, deferring to Pierce who did little Conclusions:? Davis might have taken it personally when he was pulled for POB; Doc over-reacted by putting most of the starters back in; Garnett over-reacted by dressing down the bench; without a true point guard out there (or Allen) they have less chance for a shot-in-the-flow; besides, it never really was a solid 25 point lead; sliding to 13 was too much, but inserting Rondo would have calmed the waters; in the end, Garnett's heat could have valuable results and Davis needs to learn patience--the hardest thing for any of these guys who were the man in college--plus, play Pruitt when we need a point guard during garbage time _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 09:51:22 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 09:51:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: the Baby thing In-Reply-To: <9105BB04226A4B6DB10C2F080A240EC4@StevePC> Message-ID: <469266.36662.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I think Baby's played fine for most of the season and there's little to no chance of him being passed by O'Bryant on the depth chart. His problems--and KG enunciated them very well--stem from playing outside his role, namely forcing shots instead of moving ball. That particular problem--of shooting outside the flow of the offense--has infected pretty much everyone on the 2nd team from time to time, so I don't think it's any kind of particular character flaw of Baby's. The whole second team goes through periods where they try to get their's instead of playing within the offense--and it usually happens when its the fourth quarter and the game is pretty much over. O'Bryant, on the other hand, hasn't shown anything since the first game of preseason. He's still weak, non-aggressive, and seemingly incapable of playing with sustained intensity. Yes, he's played mostly garbage minutes, and those minutes don't lend themselves to honest appraisal, but still Doc's not a coach to change for change's sake; O'Bryant got to earn those minutes and I doubt he has. I think you may be short selling Baby's ability to set outstanding picks and his overall hustle, which can be infectious. When the 2nd team is playing good basketball, it's usually because Baby is throwing his body around and getting people open. And while he's very short for a center, his defense has been vastly superior to any other reserve big we have. O'Byrant got some run against Oden and it wasn't even fair, Greg just backed him down until he had a very makeup four footer. For all his shotblocking and rebounding potential (and he'd put up very nice numbers in both categories if he got minutes), O'Bryant just isn't an NBA-level defender. And to play on this team, he needs to be. Ryan --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Steve Ouellette wrote: > From: Steve Ouellette > Subject: RE: the Baby thing > To: gk_tyler at yahoo.com, "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:17 AM > I like Big Baby -- though I never thought I'd get to see > him act like one -- > but I think it's time to accept his limitations and see > if O'Bryant can > play. > > Davis simply can't finish inside in the NBA -- call it > the Antoine syndrome > -- and his jump shot is too sporadic to be a weapon. He > passes the ball well > and pushes people around on defense, but he's always > going to be of limited > value. > > I think O'Bryant would definitely be more of an > offensive threat and a shot > blocker, and probably a better rebounder. I say give the > 7-footer a chance. > He can't handle the ball like Big Baby and he'll > probably get lost on > defense, at least at first, but there's really not much > to lose. > > Steve O > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of gene kirkpatrick > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:20 AM > To: celtics > Subject: the Baby thing > > my take:? a.? Davis had an excellent second quarter; he > hustled, played > defense, passed--did all with great energy? b. in the > fourth, he failed to > cover Powe's man who got behind them and scored an easy > basket; he took a > one-on-one move and failed to score c.? he was removed for > POB d. Pierce > came in and failed to convert on two successive moves while > the Blazers were > warming up and scoring e.? we had Scal, Pierce, POB, House > and Powe in > there, deferring to Pierce who did little > > Conclusions:? Davis might have taken it personally when he > was pulled for > POB; Doc over-reacted by putting most of the starters back > in; Garnett > over-reacted by dressing down the bench; without a true > point guard out > there (or Allen) they have less chance for a > shot-in-the-flow; besides, it > never really was a solid 25 point lead; sliding to 13 was > too much, but > inserting Rondo would have calmed the waters; in the end, > Garnett's heat > could have valuable results and Davis needs to learn > patience--the hardest > thing for any of these guys who were the man in > college--plus, play Pruitt > when we need a point guard during garbage time > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Sun Dec 7 09:54:16 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:54:16 EST Subject: What The Advance Scouts Are Seeing And Saying/ RR #2 point guard in the East Message-ID: What The Advance Scouts Are Seeing And Saying (http://search.espn.go.com/marc-stein/) By Marc Stein ESPN.com Roughly one-fourth of the regular season is already finished.With teams having played anywhere between 16 and 21 games through Friday, it's an ideal time to survey the NBA's true road warriors -- advance scouts -- for some snapshots of what they've seen on their travels. We surveyed five scouts, each of whom makes his living as a courtside spectator at three to four games per week, to examine some of the league's key developments thus far. Here's what they had to say, speaking on condition of anonymity, about the first quarter of the season: Western Conference scout on what the _Chauncey Billups_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=63) -_Allen Iverson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=366) trade has done for the Nuggets "Chauncey has been fantastic. These guys show him respect. He's got a voice with them right away. You can see him and George Karl are on the same page. He keeps those other guys like Nene and Kenyon [Martin] involved, whereas before AI and [_Carmelo Anthony_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1975) ] shot every shot. We'll have to see how he does with the altitude at his age and the speed [at point guard] in the West, but Denver was going absolutely nowhere the way they were constituted." Eastern Conference scout on Allen Iverson's impact in Detroit "Are they one of the top teams right now? You can't say that. But I still think they're going to be good, and historically they're better as an underdog. They're still trying to figure things out with AI and a first-time head coach [_Michael Curry_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=176) ] feeling his way through. When they want to run a half-court play, a lot of times they've got Tayshaun [Prince] running it, so things are a little bit different. "But what makes this team special is Rasheed [Wallace]. When he's really good, they're really good. If that doesn't happen [this season], then you can write them off. [Antonio] McDyess makes a big difference, too. So when you say that they're 7-7 [through Friday] with Iverson, make sure you say that they're 7-7 without McDyess. Maybe that's overstating it a little, but when Dice is out there it will change the way you guard Iverson and changes the way you guard Rasheed." East scout on the top three point guards in his conference "Coming into the year I'd have said that [Jose] Calderon is the best true point guard of the group. Based on what we've seen so far, I'll say [Rajon] Rondo, then [Devin] Harris, then [Derrick] Rose. I've only seen Rose in person a couple times, but everything you've heard is true: He's pretty darn good already. But I'll put Harris just ahead of him; New Jersey's [new] style of play really works to his benefit. "The thing about that [dribble-drive] offense is that when [Harris] gets the ball with a dribble handoff, he's at full speed ? and he's already quick. So he's another step ahead of the defender who's playing catch-up. He's always been a pretty good aggressive driver, but he's been able to attack even more than he used to in Dallas. I don't think [Harris] has to think as much. He uses his instincts, looks to score first and is playing at a really high level." West scout on the problems in Phoenix "I hate to say it, because I've enjoyed watching them play as much as anyone, but I think that team is ready to sink like a rock. That thing is smoldering. You can tell that guys are confused and not together. I don't want to pile on Terry Porter, because [Mike] D'Antoni would be a tough act for anyone to follow, but I'm surprised that Porter came in using so much of Flip Saunders' offense. He's coached under Rick Adelman and played for Gregg Popovich; there's not anything from those guys he wanted that he wanted to use? ? The [bigger] problem is that the Suns might be stuck. "I don't think there's much of a market for trading Shaq. [Steve] Nash is the face of the franchise, so trading him is even harder. If they want to make a drastic change, that pretty much leaves trading Amare [Stoudemire]. In some ways Amare still hasn't figured it out; he talks about not getting enough shots and touches but what about the other end? But he's also the youngest of their star players." East scout on Philadelphia's early struggles"The biggest thing with Philly is having _Elton Brand_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=91) takes them away from what they did so well -- playing a small lineup, getting up the floor, pressing, creating turnovers. That style allowed their young guys to play freely and cover up their biggest weakness [outside shooting]. Now they have to be a half-court team and their lack of shooting is exposed. "They've slowed down; they don't press. I think they had to seize the opportunity to get Elton if they eventually want to compete for the title, but they're going to need to surround him with some pieces that can shoot from the outside. He just doesn't look comfortable with them, and they don't look comfortable with him." East scout on _Greg Oden_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3225) and the surprising _Portland Trail Blazers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=por) "Guess what? They're only going to get better. And even though _Brandon Roy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027) is playing even better than he did last year, I think the No. 1 reason is the coach. Nate McMillan is really good. Everybody says they should be out running, but they're so young. He's keeping things under control and emphasizing defense, and they're not turning the ball over as much as they would be if they were running. "[Greg] Oden has helped a lot, by the way. He's enough of a force defensively at this point in his career that people shouldn't pick on him for his lack of offense. And now _Joel Przybilla_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=682) only has to play 20 minutes; Oden and Przybilla together give you a pretty good center combo. But the one thing hidden in all this is that Utah hasn't been healthy. When Utah gets healthy, I think they pass Portland up and win that division." East scout on the sleeper in his conference "I think Orlando is the best team in the NBA that's not being talked about. Everyone loves Portland right now, so everyone talks about them. Orlando is racking up the road wins again, and they're going to be a legit player in the Eastern Conference if they can get that No. 3 or [No.] 2 seed and avoid Boston in the second round. I know people say they have no bench, but once you get to the playoffs you only play seven or eight guys anyway. "Look at what they do have: Rashard [Lewis] and Hedo [Turkoglu] to spread the floor and one of the few legit big guys out there [in _Dwight Howard_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2384) ], even though he's not a great scorer. And _Jameer Nelson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2439) ? his problem is that he's making $8 million instead of $6 million. If he was making $6 million, everyone would think he's a bargain. In the playoffs, I thought the kid was pretty good." East scout on the recent firings of Oklahoma City's P.J. Carlesimo, Washington's Eddie Jordan and Toronto's Sam Mitchell "The number of people who've been fired already means that the next few guys that are teetering -- [Reggie] Theus, [Marc] Iavaroni, [Randy] Wittman -- will probably get axed soon, too. The earliness of the firings makes it easier for teams [to follow] because there's no surprise factor. It won't look like you're jumping off a cliff. But Minnesota probably has a little bit more patience being so young. It would be more dangerous for Wittman if he had a good veteran player or two to make more of a ruckus." West scout on how many legit title contenders there are at the 20-game mark "I can't give you more than three. I should probably reserve the right to include San Antonio, out of respect for all [the Spurs'] championship experience. Who's going to be surprised if they're a factor in the playoffs? But it's Boston, Cleveland and the Lakers. We're all looking up at Boston and L.A. and I can find too many flaws in everyone else." West scout on the league's worst first-quarter nightmare "You know what I've seen so far? A lot of empty seats. Arenas are emptier than I've ever seen. I was in Atlanta recently and I know that the Hawks have traditionally had problems drawing, but they're winning now. It's a good team that just made a nice little playoff run and there was almost nobody there. I saw it to a lesser degree even in Denver, where the Nuggets have been playing great. It's scary." Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033) . 2 Eastern Conference The current economic crisis is a global one, as the Russians could tell you. Perennial powerhouse CSKA Moscow recently shut down its women's team, which some European hoops experts we know well see as a clear sign that legendary men's coach Ettore Messina (at right) will be leaving CSKA at season's end as part of the club's financial cutbacks. If Messina indeed becomes a coaching free agent this summer, that'll only make it tougher for Raptors president and GM Bryan Colangelo to resist hiring the Italian as the first European-born head coach in the NBA. Messina is super close with Raptors assistant general manager Maurizio Gherardini and counts Colangelo as one of his biggest fans. Back in October, when CSKA was in Toronto to face the Raptors for an exhibition game, Colangelo was asked whether a foreign-born coach who speaks English as his second language could really land one of the NBA's 30 head-coaching jobs. Colangelo told our man Dave Feschuk of the Toronto Star, "It's not a matter of if it's going to happen, it's when it's going to happen." Colangelo, remember, didn't have a job opening when Mike D'Antoni and the Suns parted suddenly in May because of the four-year contract Colangelo felt he had to give Sam Mitchell after Mitchell won Coach of the Year honors in 2006-07. It'll be fascinating to see what happens now with Messina given that he's believed to be Colangelo's other favorite coach. The obstacles to such a hire, though, are obvious and numerous. Messina is enormously respected in the coaching biz worldwide for his X's-and-O's acumen, but there are undoubtedly hundreds of NBA players who've never heard of him. There would inevitably be loud questions about how NBA players would respond to Messina's firm hand -- far firmer than you generally see over here -- even with Toronto ranking as the NBA's most Europe-like setting, both in terms of the city and the roster. So it would be sensationally bold from Colangelo, even for a GM as aggressive as he is, to take that gamble, when at the same time he has made no secret of the fact that the organization's No. 1 goal over the next 18 months is keeping hold of 2010 free-agent supreme _Chris Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) . Obstacle No. 2: As Colangelo also conceded in October, any NBA coach has to "understand the sensibilities of the North American athlete," and that's something Messina could do only if he came to the NBA as an assistant first. Yet for the likes of overseas coaching legends such as Messina and Dynamo Moscow's David Blatt -- the American/Israeli from Princeton who ranks with Messina as Europe's best -- taking an assistant's job over here can't be especially appealing, from a financial or prestige standpoint. Another wrinkle here is that you shouldn't underestimate Jay Triano's ability to keep this job full-time, especially if Colangelo ultimately decides in the summer that it's too soon to make history with Messina. Triano is a certifiable Canadian legend -- as a player and a coach -- who has spent six-plus seasons as a Raptors assistant after memorably guiding the red and white to within one victory of the medal round in the 2000 Summer Games in Australia. The only recognizable names on that overachieving team were former Nets and 76ers center Todd McCulloch and a struggling young point guard out of Dallas named _Steve Nash_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592) . "Players love Jay," Nash said this week, welcoming the opportunity to talk about something other than the Suns' gloomy start and clearly moved by Triano's promotion. "He's a fantastic coach. They're going to find out that he has a great feel and understanding of the game and is a lot of fun to play for." ____________________________________ Sources close to the situation insist that Mo Cheeks has more job security in Philly than the current climate for coaches (three have been fired five weeks into the season) and a 1-5 slide entering the weekend would suggest, for a couple reasons: 1. Don't forget that Cheeks has received two contract extensions from the Sixers in less than a year, one in February (picking up his 2008-09 option) and another in September. That'll naturally prompt management to give Cheeks every chance to fix the Sixers' issues, especially after they spent big in the summer to sign Elton Brand and re-sign Andre Iguodala. 2. The source points out that there is no assistant on Cheeks' staff who ranks as a clear-cut choice for interim elevation, given that former Sixers head coach Jim Lynam briefly retired from the business in 2006 because of health issues and that Jeff Ruland only just returned to the NBA after spending the bulk of his coaching career at the college level. Chris Ford is another former Sixers head coach who is back in the organization, working in scouting, but there wouldn't appear to be an obvious caretaker to whom Philly can rush. ____________________________________ New York's _Al Harrington_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=308) recorded an obscure bit of NBA history last weekend when he rumbled for 36 points and 12 rebounds in a victory over Golden State, joining _Dominique Wilkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3532) as the only players ever to post a 35-and-10 performance against their previous employer in the same season in which they got traded. Fine. Call it very obscure. I was going to mention it no matter what, because Nique did his damage -- 36 points and 10 boards -- in the first big game I got to cover as an NBA beat writer. I'll never forget going to the Omni, home to the second-greatest organ sounds ever heard in this league next to the magic we're still treated to at Madison Square Garden, to see Wilkins and the _Los Angeles Clippers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac) pull out a 97-84 triumph over Danny Manning's Hawks. The Los Angeles Daily News handed me my dream of the Clipper beat about 10 days before the trading deadline in the 1993-94 season, just in time for the Hawks -- already on their way to securing the East's No. 1 seed in the first season after Michael Jordan's maiden retirement in Chicago -- to abruptly end the Nique Era so they could build around the more versatile Manning. It wound up as a surreal and unsuccessful half-season rental for both teams when the principals found new teams in free agency a few months later -- Manning to Phoenix, Wilkins to Boston -- but I simply couldn't resist this rewind. Clippers at Hawks on March 25, 1994, was an all-timer here at Stein Line HQ. 3 Good News For Wolves Fans ? Or Maybe Not Timberwolves vice president of basketball operations Kevin McHale preferred _Randy Foye_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3003) over _Brandon Roy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027) in 2006. He burned a No. 7 overall pick in 2007 on _Corey Brewer_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3191) , only for Brewer to struggle mightily as a rookie and then suffer the misfortune of a season-ending knee injury just last weekend. The early returns, furthermore, on O.J. Mayo-for-_Kevin Love_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449) (and _Mike Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) ) suggest that we're probably looking at another McHale special. So this might not be the pick-me-up for Wolves that it would appear to be on paper. We proceed nonetheless after it was brought to our attention that there are nine first-round picks in the 2009 draft owed to someone else as part of a previous trade ? with the Wolves stunningly in position to end up with the pick in four of those nine cases. It must be pointed out that each of those nine picks comes with restrictions that require the season to play out before we know for sure who will be making the selections. Yet it's not inconceivable, as you'll see below, that McHale's Wolves will wind up with the rights to all four first-rounders in June. ? Boston to Minnesota (1-through-3 protection): This pick, as part of the _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) deal, is definitely headed for Minnesota six months from now ? unless you can foresee a scenario in which the Celts miss the playoffs and wind up with a top-three pick. ? Charlotte to Denver (1-through-14 protection): The Bobcats only surrender this pick if they make the playoffs. ? Houston to Sacramento (1-through-14 protection): Pick is Sacramento-bound as part of last summer's _Ron Artest_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=25) deal unless the Rockets miss the playoffs, which seems highly unlikely in spite of their annual injury panic. ? Memphis to Washington (1-through-16 protection): Count on the Griz to finish well shy of a playoff berth and thus retain this pick. ? Miami to Minnesota (1-through-10 protection): Thanks to an ultimately not-so-monumental deal that sent _Ricky Davis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=193) and _Mark Blount_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=70) to South Beach for _Antoine Walker_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=881) and parts, Minnesota has a decent shot at this first-rounder if the Heat, under rookie coach Erik Spoelstra, continue to be a .500 team. ? Minnesota to L.A. Clippers (1-through-10 protection): The Wolves still owe a future first to the Clips as part of the disastrous _Sam Cassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=138) -for-_Marko Jaric_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=387) exchange, but they can delay it one more year as long as they finish in the top 10 of the lottery in May. ? New York to Utah via Phoenix (1-through-22 protection): The Jazz get this pick unconditionally in 2010 if it doesn't happen in the next draft. ? San Antonio to Oklahoma City (1-through-15 protection): The Thunder will almost certainly be taking this first-rounder from the Spurs as part of the deal that put _Kurt Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=846) in San Antonio in February. ? Utah to Minnesota via Philadelphia (1-through-22 protection): Here's another pick very likely to be Minnesota-bound unless the Jazz continue to be short-handed and lose more often than anyone expected. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 09:55:11 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 09:55:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Couple of good Cs related articles on SI In-Reply-To: <0KBG00GCW3NNA679@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <385491.38678.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, Kim, that was a great article about Pierce. Everybody should check it out; it's very long, but well worth it. Lots of info on Pierce away from the court, especially concerning his estranged father. A very good read. Ryan --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: Couple of good Cs related articles on SI > To: "Cs eList" > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 2:02 AM > Great one about Pierce, providing context to a bunch of > things, including that opening night speech. Not a lot that > hasn't been in the news before, but it doesn't > usually get strung together like this > http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1149382/index.htm?eref=sisf > Another on divergent paths of KG and Marbury that actually > came across as a knowledgeable but fairly impartial analysis > until the bitterness at the end made me guess it was someone > who'd covered the Twolves > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/12/05/garnett.marbury/index.html?eref=si_topstories > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From bosox18 at charter.net Sun Dec 7 11:31:59 2008 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:31:59 -0500 Subject: the Baby thing In-Reply-To: <469266.36662.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <9105BB04226A4B6DB10C2F080A240EC4@StevePC> <469266.36662.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E0110285CE540468FB8FC43CB8D1331@StevePC> I'm not saying Big Baby hasn't contributed, and he does set a mean pick, but when the second team is playing good basketball it has much more to do with Leon Powe -- who knows how to finish with the ball -- and Tony Allen than anything Big Baby is doing. I don't know what O'Bryant can give us; I'd just like to find out. You can't teach seven feet and in his limited time he has shown that he knows how to score and he's got pretty good timing as a shot blocker. He absolutely does look a little lost, but that could be a lack of playing time issue. I find it mildly ironic that you want to completely write off O'Bryant because he hasn't proven anything, but sing the praises of Gabe Pruitt ("a bigger, better ball-handling, better shooting" Delonte, if I remember correctly)at every opportunity. I'd like to see Pruitt get a little playing time and see what he can do too ... but his resume is even skimpier than O'Bryant's. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:51 PM To: 'The Boston Celtics Mailing List' Subject: RE: the Baby thing I think Baby's played fine for most of the season and there's little to no chance of him being passed by O'Bryant on the depth chart. His problems--and KG enunciated them very well--stem from playing outside his role, namely forcing shots instead of moving ball. That particular problem--of shooting outside the flow of the offense--has infected pretty much everyone on the 2nd team from time to time, so I don't think it's any kind of particular character flaw of Baby's. The whole second team goes through periods where they try to get their's instead of playing within the offense--and it usually happens when its the fourth quarter and the game is pretty much over. O'Bryant, on the other hand, hasn't shown anything since the first game of preseason. He's still weak, non-aggressive, and seemingly incapable of playing with sustained intensity. Yes, he's played mostly garbage minutes, and those minutes don't lend themselves to honest appraisal, but still Doc's not a coach to change for change's sake; O'Bryant got to earn those minutes and I doubt he has. I think you may be short selling Baby's ability to set outstanding picks and his overall hustle, which can be infectious. When the 2nd team is playing good basketball, it's usually because Baby is throwing his body around and getting people open. And while he's very short for a center, his defense has been vastly superior to any other reserve big we have. O'Byrant got some run against Oden and it wasn't even fair, Greg just backed him down until he had a very makeup four footer. For all his shotblocking and rebounding potential (and he'd put up very nice numbers in both categories if he got minutes), O'Bryant just isn't an NBA-level defender. And to play on this team, he needs to be. Ryan --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Steve Ouellette wrote: > From: Steve Ouellette > Subject: RE: the Baby thing > To: gk_tyler at yahoo.com, "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:17 AM > I like Big Baby -- though I never thought I'd get to see > him act like one -- > but I think it's time to accept his limitations and see > if O'Bryant can > play. > > Davis simply can't finish inside in the NBA -- call it > the Antoine syndrome > -- and his jump shot is too sporadic to be a weapon. He > passes the ball well > and pushes people around on defense, but he's always > going to be of limited > value. > > I think O'Bryant would definitely be more of an > offensive threat and a shot > blocker, and probably a better rebounder. I say give the > 7-footer a chance. > He can't handle the ball like Big Baby and he'll > probably get lost on > defense, at least at first, but there's really not much > to lose. > > Steve O > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of gene kirkpatrick > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:20 AM > To: celtics > Subject: the Baby thing > > my take:? a.? Davis had an excellent second quarter; he > hustled, played > defense, passed--did all with great energy? b. in the > fourth, he failed to > cover Powe's man who got behind them and scored an easy > basket; he took a > one-on-one move and failed to score c.? he was removed for > POB d. Pierce > came in and failed to convert on two successive moves while > the Blazers were > warming up and scoring e.? we had Scal, Pierce, POB, House > and Powe in > there, deferring to Pierce who did little > > Conclusions:? Davis might have taken it personally when he > was pulled for > POB; Doc over-reacted by putting most of the starters back > in; Garnett > over-reacted by dressing down the bench; without a true > point guard out > there (or Allen) they have less chance for a > shot-in-the-flow; besides, it > never really was a solid 25 point lead; sliding to 13 was > too much, but > inserting Rondo would have calmed the waters; in the end, > Garnett's heat > could have valuable results and Davis needs to learn > patience--the hardest > thing for any of these guys who were the man in > college--plus, play Pruitt > when we need a point guard during garbage time > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 13:49:05 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:49:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: the Baby thing In-Reply-To: <5E0110285CE540468FB8FC43CB8D1331@StevePC> Message-ID: <867252.36128.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Steve Ouellette wrote: > From: Steve Ouellette > Subject: RE: the Baby thing > To: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com, "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:31 PM > I'm not saying Big Baby hasn't contributed, and he > does set a mean pick, but > when the second team is playing good basketball it has much > more to do with > Leon Powe -- who knows how to finish with the ball -- and > Tony Allen than > anything Big Baby is doing. I don't know what > O'Bryant can give us; I'd just > like to find out. You can't teach seven feet and in his > limited time he has > shown that he knows how to score and he's got pretty > good timing as a shot > blocker. He absolutely does look a little lost, but that > could be a lack of > playing time issue. The second team plays good basketball when every single player on that unit plays within their role. Baby knows his role (even after Friday's episode) much more than O'Bryant does at this point and that's why he's getting the minutes. Powe and TA, since they can create their own shots (or create shots for others, in Tony's case), are still effective when the 2nd unit is malfunctioning, but the overall effectiveness of that unit is a product of every single player doing their role. And Baby's picks and knowledge of the team defense concepts are just as important as any other player in creating the overall cohesion necessary to make the 2nd unit effective. O'Bryant can block shots, he does have a few post moves, and he does rebound the ball; however, does he know his role? That's questionable. At this point, he's probably still learning the team defense and offense and putting him on the 2nd team would put an already point guard compromised offense on even thinner ice, not to mention the defensive breakdowns that would occur. Like all young players, O'Bryant needs to learn to take his individual skills and put them to use in the context of team ball. I don't think he's there yet. He hasn't been on the team long enough, he hasn't had enough practices, and he doesn't have the requisite BBIQ or intensity to overcome those deficiencies. Sometime around mid-season he MAY be, but right now, he's not. > > I find it mildly ironic that you want to completely write > off O'Bryant > because he hasn't proven anything, but sing the praises > of Gabe Pruitt ("a > bigger, better ball-handling, better shooting" > Delonte, if I remember > correctly)at every opportunity. I'd like to see Pruitt > get a little playing > time and see what he can do too ... but his resume is even > skimpier than > O'Bryant's. > Pruitt's resume is actually more impressive than O'Bryants at this point in their respective careers, considering where they both came from. Beyond a comparison of stats from meaningless D-League and preseason games, though, Gabe's game represents something Patrick's doesn't: the ability to make others better. As we've seen since Tony's been out, there is a complete lack of play-making and dribble penetration on the 2nd team. Eddie House struggles getting the offense started, and often jacks the first shot that shows. The offense is completely stagnant out there, even when Ray or Paul are helping out. We just don't run our sets, or when we do we don't start them until 12 second have elapsed from the shot clock. What Gabe could do, if given minutes, would be to: a). run the offense better than Eddie can. I'm not saying Gabe's as good as Rondo, but he's a better dribbler, has better vision, and has more length and speed than House does. He gets the ball up quicker, is less susceptible to pressure, and gets the offense rolling with more time on the shot clock. b.) allow House to play his more natural role. House is shooting about 10 % less from 3 than his career average this season. He may have improved his point guard play this season (he has--his ballhandling is more solid for sure), but it's negatively impacted what he does best--shoot the ball. Moving House off the ball let's him do what he does best--shoot. c.) put players in better positions to succeed. Doc might not want to admit it, but the 2nd team struggles are rooted in the lack of a true point guard. Fix the point guard, and the biggest issue on the 2nd team--players playing outside their role--will become lessened. When your point guard is shitty, it's that much easier to justify to yourself breaking plays or taking shots you shouldn't take. Bad PG play leads to other players trying to do more than they should. As opposed to Pruitt, I just don't think O'Bryant insertion into the lineup provides that much more of anything to the team as a whole. Whatever individual skills he brings, they will surely--at least right now--be mitigated by the lack of cohesion his insertion will bring to the 2nd team. We should revisit this discussion mid-season, when I think Patrick will be further along mentally to be able to handle consistent minutes. Right now, we have two options to make the 2nd team better: play Pruitt at the point, or play Rondo with the 2nd unit (instead of Ray or Paul). Either option would correct that unit's main problem: lack of true point guard play. Ryan From jlyell at verizon.net Sun Dec 7 19:27:24 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:27:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Great win! Message-ID: <827681.34105.qm@web84003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A great win although we almost blew it with missed free throws. Big shot by the Truth and big game by Ray, and KG. We let Daniels get too many easy hoops early. We need to release Scal! What the heck was he doing? John From troynsusiehash at alltel.net Sun Dec 7 20:17:44 2008 From: troynsusiehash at alltel.net (Troy Hash) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:17:44 -0500 Subject: Scal! In-Reply-To: <827681.34105.qm@web84003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <827681.34105.qm@web84003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <026d01c958eb$eb8376b0$02fea8c0@troyscomputer> Ya, why was he in there for DEFENSE!! Good Lord!! He can't guard a fence post! Doc has been infected with the Scalacrappy disease again! Maybe 3 days off will cure him! Troy -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of John Lyell Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:27 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Great win! A great win although we almost blew it with missed free throws. Big shot by the Truth and big game by Ray, and KG. We let Daniels get too many easy hoops early. We need to release Scal! What the heck was he doing? John _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1834 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1834 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 20:47:50 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:47:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Scal! In-Reply-To: <026d01c958eb$eb8376b0$02fea8c0@troyscomputer> Message-ID: <262038.42812.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It was actually a defensible move. Scal was in there to guard the perimeter, as Indiana had to go for the 3 in that situation. Grabbing the jersey of Granger before the ball was inbounded, however, was pure idiocy. Sadly, Scal is reverting. He'll be buried on the bench by mid-season, again. Ryan --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Troy Hash wrote: > From: Troy Hash > Subject: Scal! > To: "'The Boston Celtics Mailing List'" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 10:17 PM > Ya, why was he in there for DEFENSE!! Good Lord!! He > can't guard a fence > post! Doc has been infected with the Scalacrappy disease > again! Maybe 3 > days off will cure him! Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of John Lyell > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:27 PM > To: celtics at igtc.com > Subject: Great win! > > A great win although we almost blew it with missed free > throws. Big shot by > the Truth and big game by Ray, and KG. We let Daniels get > too many easy > hoops early. > > We need to release Scal! What the heck was he doing? > > > John > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1834 - Release > Date: 12/6/2008 > 4:55 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1834 - Release > Date: 12/6/2008 > 4:55 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From BDodgers at aol.com Mon Dec 8 11:00:52 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:00:52 EST Subject: Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry Message-ID: _Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry_ (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6152459.html) Glen Davis is unapologetic about his display of emotion during the Celtics' win Friday night against Portland. Regarding his actions when he and the subs were confronted by Kevin Garnett after squandering much of a large lead at the Garden, Big Baby said, in essence, that's his personality and he'll cry if he wants to. Davis could be seen throwing a towel and shedding a tear after Garnett pulled him back into a timeout huddle in the fourth quarter. "I'm not embarrassed," Davis said before the Celtics took on the Indiana Pacers last night. "I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm emotional about the game. That's one of my best features - being emotional, playing out there with passion. Sometimes it's not always good passion. Sometimes it's bad, but that's just me being young. You have to learn how to funnel that emotion and keep it inside until you put it out." The Celts were cruising against the Trail Blazers, but the starters had to be reinserted when the margin got back into the questionable range. -- Boston Herald **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Mon Dec 8 12:44:43 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:44:43 EST Subject: Wolves to replace Wittman with McHale Message-ID: Wolves to replace Wittman with McHale By Marc Stein ESPN.com Kevin McHale is back on the bench for the _Minnesota Timberwolves_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=min) ... and out of the front office. The Wolves announced the widely anticipated firing of Randy Wittman on Monday morning once McHale agreed to take over as head coach, but still managed to deliver a surprise with the news that the much-maligned McHale is relinquishing his long-held duties as Minnesota's vice president of basketball operations. An official press release from the club states that McHale has assumed "head coaching responsibilities of the team on a full-time basis from this point forward" so he can "concentrate on his coaching duties." It was not immediately clear if McHale will have any chance to return to a personnel post in the future or if staying with the organization he joined in 1993 depends on him succeeding on the bench. The Wolves have also yet to announce whether the bulk of McHale's front-office duties will be absorbed by general manager Jim Stack or assistant general manager Fred Hoiberg, with Hoiberg regarded as McHale's eventual successor for some time. McHale and Wolves owner Glen Taylor will be addressing the media at a 3 p.m. ET news conference after McHale coaches his first practice. It's the NBA's fourth firing already this season, following dismissals in Oklahoma City (P.J. Carlesimo), Washington (Eddie Jordan) and Toronto (Sam Mitchell). ESPN.com reported Sunday that Taylor, in the wake of a 23-point home loss to the _Los Angeles Clippers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac) , was prepared to fire Wittman only if McHale agreed to take Wittman's place on the bench. NBA coaching sources told ESPN.com on Monday that McHale has spent the past few days mulling Taylor's stipulation, given McHale's longstanding aversion to coaching. Sources say McHale was equally reluctant to coach in the 2004-05 season after firing Flip Saunders, but his 19-12 record as interim coach -- which left the Wolves just shy of making the playoffs after a 25-26 start -- represents one of his more successful periods with the organization. Yet when McHale coached previously, his roster was built around _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) and still featured _Sam Cassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=138) , _Latrell Sprewell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=800) and _Wally Szczerbiak_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=831) from the group that went to the 2004 Western Conference finals under Saunders in the most successful season in franchise history. The current Wolves are much younger and still early in the rebuilding process after Garnett was traded to Boston in July 2007. McHale nonetheless said coming into the season that he thought that this team -- using last season's respectable 17-26 finish as a springboard -- could make a run at .500 ball. The Wolves are well off that pace, losing 15 of 18 games since an opening-night win over Sacramento and looking increasingly disengaged under Wittman, judging by their four consecutive double-digit losses last week. The last two defeats -- away to New Jersey and the loss at home to a 3-16 Clippers team -- came by a combined 52 points. "It's obvious that something has to change," one team source said Sunday. Said Wolves rookie _Kevin Love_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449) , who had 13 points and 15 rebounds in Saturday's heavy loss: "As you can imagine, no one is particularly excited. We have hit rock bottom." The Wolves could have as many as four first-round picks in the June draft, but McHale has increasingly absorbed heavy criticism for his front-office moves since the 2004 playoff run. In addition to the controversial Garnett deal and much-criticized Cassell deal with the Clippers, McHale preferred _Randy Foye_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3003) over _Brandon Roy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027) in the 2006 draft, used the No. 7 overall pick in 2007 on _Corey Brewer_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3191) -- only for Brewer to struggle mightily as a rookie and then suffer the misfortune of a season-ending knee injury on Nov. 29 -- and surrendered Memphis' _O.J. Mayo_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3450) in a draft-day deal last June that brought back Love and perimeter specialist _Mike Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) . Even in a deep rookie class, Mayo is widely considered as the most serious threat to Chicago's _Derrick Rose_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456) in the NBA's Rookie of the Year race. "There were certain goals and expectations that we had for this team at the start of the season and we have not lived up to them," Taylor said in Monday's statement, after proclaiming Wittman safe roughly two weeks ago. "I am disappointed in our record and believe that we have more talent than our record indicates. A change had to be made and, with three-fourths of the season remaining, there is still time to make substantial progress this year. ... Kevin has assembled the players on this team and believes in their talent and skill level. "It is my expectation that Kevin will be able to get the most out of our team and our players in his new role as head coach. He has been involved in the NBA game for almost 30 years, is a tremendous teacher and has a wealth of basketball knowledge. I am confident that our players will respond to the new voice and perspective that Kevin will provide." Said McHale: "I truly believe that we have a talented group of players in our locker room who have a great amount of potential. I'm confident that we can get this turned around and get back to playing a brand of basketball that our fans can be proud of." Wittman leaves the Wolves' bench with one of the lowest career winning percentages of all-time at .326. He has a career record of 100-207, going 62-102 in two seasons as Cleveland's coach (1999-2000 and 2000-01) and a record of 38-105 since taking over from Dwane Casey on Jan. 23, 2007. The Wolves were 20-20 in the 2006-07 season when Casey was dismissed, then went 12-30 under Wittman in Garnett's last days in Minnesota. Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From Mafiaso316 at aol.com Mon Dec 8 15:17:44 2008 From: Mafiaso316 at aol.com (Mafiaso316 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:17:44 EST Subject: Stephen A. Blowhard Smith Message-ID: Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Stankees only win 26 World Series, if So Blowhard Smith needs to stick to what he knows best, Talking out his ass about the NBA (he who thinks he knows everything) as he just stated on ESPN that the Stanks have 27 Series wins. maybe I am wrong, but he acts like he is an expert on everything. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Dec 8 15:28:34 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:28:34 -0500 Subject: Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KBK0015IZVK8AP0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Good for him, that's the best response he could have possibly made. Kim At 02:00 PM 12/8/2008, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: > >_Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry_ >(http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6152459.html) > >Glen Davis is unapologetic about his display of emotion during the Celtics' >win Friday night against Portland. Regarding his actions when he and >the subs >were confronted by Kevin Garnett after squandering much of a large lead at >the Garden, Big Baby said, in essence, that's his personality and >he'll cry if >he wants to. >Davis could be seen throwing a towel and shedding a tear after Garnett pulled > him back into a timeout huddle in the fourth quarter. "I'm not > embarrassed," > Davis said before the Celtics took on the Indiana Pacers last night. "I'm >not embarrassed at all. I'm emotional about the game. That's one of my best >features - being emotional, playing out there with passion. >Sometimes it's not >always good passion. Sometimes it's bad, but that's just me being young. You >have to learn how to funnel that emotion and keep it inside until you put it >out." >The Celts were cruising against the Trail Blazers, but the starters had to be > reinserted when the margin got back into the questionable range. -- Boston >Herald >**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net Tue Dec 9 09:09:16 2008 From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:09:16 -0500 Subject: Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry In-Reply-To: <0KBK0015IZVK8AP0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KBK0015IZVK8AP0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20081209170926.2E2E1E1839D@ignite.igtc.com> The funny thing is, I've mostly been impressed with Big Beagle. (I think the other nickname is a bit insulting, really.) Last season he had ZERO lift. This season, he's not Dr. J., but he gets off the ground and a little above the rim. He's much faster than last season. He even uncorks an occasional outside jumper! (though it needs a lot of work, last season he'd have been benched for even thinking "jump shot.") When you're emotional, you get ALL the emotions, good and bad. I'm GLAD he showed that emotion. He cares what his teammates think, and he cares how well--or poorly--he plays. I'll take a player who gives a damn over that bump on a log in New York any day. Also, it's a good sign for the team--there's no letdown allowed, no skating through a big lead. Everyone is held accountable if they don't perform up to contemporary professional standards (my Harry Chapin reference for the day). I'd hate to be a fan of the team the Celtics play on the first night the starters and bench get offense and defense going at the same time. Godzilla vs. Tokyo time. At 06:28 PM 12/8/2008, Kim Malo wrote: >Good for him, that's the best response he could have possibly made. >Kim > >At 02:00 PM 12/8/2008, BDodgers at aol.com wrote: >> >>_Celts Big Baby Glen Davis isn't afraid to cry_ >>(http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6152459.html) >> >>Glen Davis is unapologetic about his display of emotion during the Celtics' >>win Friday night against Portland. Regarding his actions when he and the subs >>were confronted by Kevin Garnett after squandering much of a large lead at >>the Garden, Big Baby said, in essence, that's his personality and >>he'll cry if >>he wants to. >>Davis could be seen throwing a towel and shedding a tear after Garnett pulled >> him back into a timeout huddle in the fourth quarter. "I'm not >> embarrassed," >> Davis said before the Celtics took on the Indiana Pacers last night. "I'm >>not embarrassed at all. I'm emotional about the game. That's one of my best >>features - being emotional, playing out there with passion. >>Sometimes it's not >>always good passion. Sometimes it's bad, but that's just me being young. You >>have to learn how to funnel that emotion and keep it inside until you put it >>out." >>The Celts were cruising against the Trail Blazers, but the starters had to be >> reinserted when the margin got back into the questionable range. -- Boston >>Herald > >Snoopy the Celtics Beagle >Please visit the Celtics Beagle Website From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 10 05:40:46 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens & Walker News Message-ID: <532617.78838.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://www.examiner.com/x-441-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2008m12d8-Two-NBA-DLeague-games-four-teams-and-five-prospects ? Bill Walker, Utah Flash: Walker was drafted by the Wizards with the No. 47 pick, then traded to the Celtics. The guy's a beast in this league, a real load in the low post, as they say. He is a big-time talent, and?was?a level above almost everyone?_ if not?everyone _ on the court. He?s only 6-foot-6, but he?s got a lot of bulk and natural skill. At times, Walker has had too much bulk, apparently,?sometimes battling weight issues. I'm not sure he's in tremendous shape right now. He?s also a wildcard in terms of his demeanor and attitude. In his short stay with the Celtics earlier this season, he got into a an altercation with Kevin Garnett at practice and Tracy McGrady in a game against Houston. Celtics broadcaster Tommy Heinsohn referred to Walker as the ?most combative of the Celtics.? Without trying to read too much into body language, etc., Walker didn't appear to be pumped about being in Bakersfield and doesn't appear to be thrilled about playing in the D-League. It's that attitude,?apparently, that is keeping him from the NBA. ? ... ? J.R. Giddens, Utah Flash: The Celtics selected Giddens out of New Mexico with the No. 30 pick. Giddens isn?t much of a 3-point shooter, and he doesn?t do anything that overwhelms you but at game?s end, when you assess his play he?s usually left a positive imprint. Giddens is averaging 20 points and seven assists per game, and shooting an impressive .566 from the field. Apparently, Giddens has some Bill Walker in him also. While at the University of Kansas, Giddens was involved in a bar fight, was stabbed and received 30 stitches. He was placed on probation for a year and ordered to take anger management classes. He was also suspended at New Mexico for his attitude. I mention the attitude stuff with Walker and Giddens because during the fourth quarter of the game I saw, their coach, Brad Jones, became so incensed during a timeout, that he actually slammed his clipboard to the floor, where it proceeded to shatter into approximately a half-dozen pieces. Jones also got a technical foul for a separate tirade, this one directed toward officials. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 10 05:44:57 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:44:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens & Walker News Message-ID: <842028.23972.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Stats: William?Walker http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=bill_walker Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 08-09 UTA 5 5 32.8 .513 .353 .800 1.2 3.4 4.6 1.4 1.6 0.8 3.80 4.00 21.6 Justin?Giddens http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=jr_giddens Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 08-09 UTA 5 5 39.2 .566 .250 .762 2.4 4.8 7.2 2.6 1.8 2.4 3.00 1.00 20.8 ? ________________________________ From: Adam Patterson To: Celtics Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 1:40:46 PM Subject: Giddens & Walker News From: http://www.examiner.com/x-441-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2008m12d8-Two-NBA-DLeague-games-four-teams-and-five-prospects ? Bill Walker, Utah Flash: Walker was drafted by the Wizards with the No. 47 pick, then traded to the Celtics. The guy's a beast in this league, a real load in the low post, as they say. He is a big-time talent, and?was?a level above almost everyone?_ if not?everyone _ on the court. He?s only 6-foot-6, but he?s got a lot of bulk and natural skill. At times, Walker has had too much bulk, apparently,?sometimes battling weight issues. I'm not sure he's in tremendous shape right now. He?s also a wildcard in terms of his demeanor and attitude. In his short stay with the Celtics earlier this season, he got into a an altercation with Kevin Garnett at practice and Tracy McGrady in a game against Houston. Celtics broadcaster Tommy Heinsohn referred to Walker as the ?most combative of the Celtics.? Without trying to read too much into body language, etc., Walker didn't appear to be pumped about being in Bakersfield and doesn't appear to be thrilled about playing in the D-League. It's that attitude,?apparently, that is keeping him from the NBA. ? ... ? J.R. Giddens, Utah Flash: The Celtics selected Giddens out of New Mexico with the No. 30 pick. Giddens isn?t much of a 3-point shooter, and he doesn?t do anything that overwhelms you but at game?s end, when you assess his play he?s usually left a positive imprint. Giddens is averaging 20 points and seven assists per game, and shooting an impressive .566 from the field. Apparently, Giddens has some Bill Walker in him also. While at the University of Kansas, Giddens was involved in a bar fight, was stabbed and received 30 stitches. He was placed on probation for a year and ordered to take anger management classes. He was also suspended at New Mexico for his attitude. I mention the attitude stuff with Walker and Giddens because during the fourth quarter of the game I saw, their coach, Brad Jones, became so incensed during a timeout, that he actually slammed his clipboard to the floor, where it proceeded to shatter into approximately a half-dozen pieces. Jones also got a technical foul for a separate tirade, this one directed toward officials. ? ? ________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 05:55:03 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:55:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens & Walker News In-Reply-To: <532617.78838.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <737860.60396.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> No offense, Adam, but these are bullshit reports. Walker doesn't have an attitude problem whatsoever. He's in the D-League because there's no playing time for him in Boston right now. Same with Giddens. This writer did about 15 minutes of Internet research and called it a story. He says he mentioned the 'attitude' stuff because the Flash coach through a fit during a timeout and busted up his clipboard. Well, he must have done that because Walker and Giddens have such bad attitudes, I guess. I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that the Flash lost by 41 points. Ryan --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Giddens & Walker News > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 7:40 AM > From: > http://www.examiner.com/x-441-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2008m12d8-Two-NBA-DLeague-games-four-teams-and-five-prospects > > ? > Bill Walker, Utah Flash: Walker was drafted by the Wizards > with the No. 47 pick, then traded to the Celtics. > The guy's a beast in this league, a real load in the > low post, as they say. > He is a big-time talent, and?was?a level above almost > everyone?_ if not?everyone _ on the court. > He?s only 6-foot-6, but he?s got a lot of bulk and > natural skill. At times, Walker has had too much bulk, > apparently,?sometimes battling weight issues. > I'm not sure he's in tremendous shape right now. > He?s also a wildcard in terms of his demeanor and > attitude. In his short stay with the Celtics earlier this > season, he got into a an altercation with Kevin Garnett at > practice and Tracy McGrady in a game against Houston. > Celtics broadcaster Tommy Heinsohn referred to Walker as > the ?most combative of the Celtics.? > Without trying to read too much into body language, etc., > Walker didn't appear to be pumped about being in > Bakersfield and doesn't appear to be thrilled about > playing in the D-League. > It's that attitude,?apparently, that is keeping him > from the NBA. > ? > ... > ? > J.R. Giddens, Utah Flash: The Celtics selected Giddens out > of New Mexico with the No. 30 pick. > Giddens isn?t much of a 3-point shooter, and he doesn?t > do anything that overwhelms you but at game?s end, when > you assess his play he?s usually left a positive imprint. > Giddens is averaging 20 points and seven assists per game, > and shooting an impressive .566 from the field. > Apparently, Giddens has some Bill Walker in him also. While > at the University of Kansas, Giddens was involved in a bar > fight, was stabbed and received 30 stitches. > He was placed on probation for a year and ordered to take > anger management classes. He was also suspended at New > Mexico for his attitude. > I mention the attitude stuff with Walker and Giddens > because during the fourth quarter of the game I saw, their > coach, Brad Jones, became so incensed during a timeout, that > he actually slammed his clipboard to the floor, where it > proceeded to shatter into approximately a half-dozen pieces. > Jones also got a technical foul for a separate tirade, this > one directed toward officials. > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. > Enter now > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 06:41:07 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:41:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens & Walker News Message-ID: <450637.28564.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Could Walker replace baby moved for a true 4, or backup point??in a trade by year end? What is Cassell's story? ________________________________ From: Ryan W To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:55:03 AM Subject: Re: Giddens & Walker News No offense, Adam, but these are bullshit reports.? Walker doesn't have an attitude problem whatsoever.? He's in the D-League because there's no playing time for him in Boston right now.? Same with Giddens.? This writer did about 15 minutes of Internet research and called it a story.? He says he mentioned the 'attitude' stuff because the Flash coach through a fit during a timeout and busted up his clipboard.? Well, he must have done that because Walker and Giddens have such bad attitudes, I guess.? I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that the Flash lost by 41 points.? Ryan --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Adam Patterson wrote: > From: Adam Patterson > Subject: Giddens & Walker News > To: "Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 7:40 AM > From: > http://www.examiner.com/x-441-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2008m12d8-Two-NBA-DLeague-games-four-teams-and-five-prospects > > ? > Bill Walker, Utah Flash: Walker was drafted by the Wizards > with the No. 47 pick, then traded to the Celtics. > The guy's a beast in this league, a real load in the > low post, as they say. > He is a big-time talent, and?was?a level above almost > everyone?_ if not?everyone _ on the court. > He?s only 6-foot-6, but he?s got a lot of bulk and > natural skill. At times, Walker has had too much bulk, > apparently,?sometimes battling weight issues. > I'm not sure he's in tremendous shape right now. > He?s also a wildcard in terms of his demeanor and > attitude. In his short stay with the Celtics earlier this > season, he got into a an altercation with Kevin Garnett at > practice and Tracy McGrady in a game against Houston. > Celtics broadcaster Tommy Heinsohn referred to Walker as > the ?most combative of the Celtics.? > Without trying to read too much into body language, etc., > Walker didn't appear to be pumped about being in > Bakersfield and doesn't appear to be thrilled about > playing in the D-League. > It's that attitude,?apparently, that is keeping him > from the NBA. > ? > ... > ? > J.R. Giddens, Utah Flash: The Celtics selected Giddens out > of New Mexico with the No. 30 pick. > Giddens isn?t much of a 3-point shooter, and he doesn?t > do anything that overwhelms you but at game?s end, when > you assess his play he?s usually left a positive imprint. > Giddens is averaging 20 points and seven assists per game, > and shooting an impressive .566 from the field. > Apparently, Giddens has some Bill Walker in him also. While > at the University of Kansas, Giddens was involved in a bar > fight, was stabbed and received 30 stitches. > He was placed on probation for a year and ordered to take > anger management classes. He was also suspended at New > Mexico for his attitude. > I mention the attitude stuff with Walker and Giddens > because during the fourth quarter of the game I saw, their > coach, Brad Jones, became so incensed during a timeout, that > he actually slammed his clipboard to the floor, where it > proceeded to shatter into approximately a half-dozen pieces. > Jones also got a technical foul for a separate tirade, this > one directed toward officials. > > >? ? ? Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. > Enter now > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 10 07:23:32 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:23:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Giddens & Walker News Message-ID: <902326.27979.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> No skin off my back, Ryan. Anyway, I'm just glad to see some life on this list again, it's starting to get boring... Also, there were 2 other references in yesterday's TrueHoop on ESPN.com (that's where I got the Giddens & Walker article from): A Big Baby video (which I haven't seen yet): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uSay2aWTc0&eurl=http://www.bloglines.com/myblogs_display?sub=20880553&site=2847892&feature=player_embedded and our favourite whipping boy got a reference: "When it comes to missing short shots, Shawn Marion does have a bunch of Antoine Walker in him." Enjoy! Adam (definitely not a fan of trading Big Baby but would like to see Giddens & Walker) --- Ryan W wrote: No offense, Adam, but these are bullshit reports.? Walker doesn't have an attitude problem whatsoever.? He's in the D-League because there's no playing time for him in Boston right now.? Same with Giddens.? This writer did about 15 minutes of Internet research and called it a story.? He says he mentioned the 'attitude' stuff because the Flash coach through a fit during a timeout and busted up his clipboard.? Well, he must have done that because Walker and Giddens have such bad attitudes, I guess.? I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that the Flash lost by 41 points.? Ryan --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Adam Patterson wrote: >From: Adam Patterson >Subject: Giddens & Walker News >To: "Celtics Mailing List" >Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 7:40 AM >From: >http://www.examiner.com/x-441-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2008m12d8-Two-NBA-DLeague-games-four-teams-and-five-prospects > >? >Bill Walker, Utah Flash: Walker was drafted by the Wizards >with the No. 47 pick, then traded to the Celtics. >The guy's a beast in this league, a real load in the >low post, as they say. >He is a big-time talent, and?was?a level above almost >everyone?_ if not?everyone _ on the court. >He?s only 6-foot-6, but he?s got a lot of bulk and >natural skill. At times, Walker has had too much bulk, >apparently,?sometimes battling weight issues. >I'm not sure he's in tremendous shape right now. >He?s also a wildcard in terms of his demeanor and >attitude. In his short stay with the Celtics earlier this >season, he got into a an altercation with Kevin Garnett at >practice and Tracy McGrady in a game against Houston. >Celtics broadcaster Tommy Heinsohn referred to Walker as >the ?most combative of the Celtics.? >Without trying to read too much into body language, etc., >Walker didn't appear to be pumped about being in >Bakersfield and doesn't appear to be thrilled about >playing in the D-League. >It's that attitude,?apparently, that is keeping him >from the NBA. >? >... >? >J.R. Giddens, Utah Flash: The Celtics selected Giddens out >of New Mexico with the No. 30 pick. >Giddens isn?t much of a 3-point shooter, and he doesn?t >do anything that overwhelms you but at game?s end, when >you assess his play he?s usually left a positive imprint. >Giddens is averaging 20 points and seven assists per game, >and shooting an impressive .566 from the field. >Apparently, Giddens has some Bill Walker in him also. While >at the University of Kansas, Giddens was involved in a bar >fight, was stabbed and received 30 stitches. >He was placed on probation for a year and ordered to take >anger management classes. He was also suspended at New >Mexico for his attitude. >I mention the attitude stuff with Walker and Giddens >because during the fourth quarter of the game I saw, their >coach, Brad Jones, became so incensed during a timeout, that >he actually slammed his clipboard to the floor, where it >proceeded to shatter into approximately a half-dozen pieces. >Jones also got a technical foul for a separate tirade, this >one directed toward officials. > > >?????? Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. >Enter now >http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From BDodgers at aol.com Wed Dec 10 09:22:34 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:22:34 EST Subject: Sources: Wizards get 2 guards in trade Message-ID: Sources: Wizards get 2 guards in trade By Marc Stein ESPN.com The _Washington Wizards_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=was) , _Memphis Grizzlies_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mem) and _New Orleans Hornets_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nor) have agreed to a three-team trade that will bring two new guards to the _Gilbert Arenas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=974) -less Wizards, according to NBA front-office sources. The Wizards will receive New Orleans' _Mike James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1051) and Memphis' _Javaris Crittenton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3197) in the exchange, with the Hornets acquiring Washington's _Antonio Daniels_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=183) and the Grizzlies coming away with a future first-round pick. Arenas has yet to play for the Wizards since signing a new $111 million contract in the offseason after undergoing surgery on his left knee. A firm timetable for Arenas' comeback has not been established, but he has yet to be cleared to participate in contact drills, making a return by Jan. 1 -- as Arenas initially hoped -- seem unlikely. The Washington Post reported Wednesday morning that the pick is a conditional first-rounder that Memphis had sent to Washington in the trade to acquire Spanish guard _Juan Carlos Navarro_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1778) in the 2007 offseason. Navarro returned to club power FC Barcelona in his native country this season. The Wizards have to release guard _Dee Brown_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2994) to make roster room for their new players. According to the Post, Daniels was at Wizards practice but was pulled off the floor once the deal proceeded to the conference-call stage required for league approval. The Grizzlies had been expected to part with at least one point guard this season after stockpiling several. Crittenton, taken 19th overall by the _Los Angeles Lakers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) in the 2007 draft, arrived in Memphis in February as part of the _Pau Gasol_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=996) deal. James had fallen out of favor in New Orleans under coach _Byron Scott_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3483) and hadn't played in nine of the Hornets' past 10 games. Daniels, who has been a fixture on Washington's playoff teams over the past three seasons, is averaging 5.1 points, 3.6 assists and 22.4 minutes in 13 games. Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Wed Dec 10 17:42:04 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:42:04 EST Subject: Suns get high-scoring Richardson from Cats Message-ID: Suns get high-scoring Richardson from Cats By Marc Stein ESPN.com The _Phoenix Suns_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho) completed a deal with the _Charlotte Bobcats_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha) on Wednesday to acquire high-scoring swingman _Jason Richardson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1018) . The multiplayer deal requires the Suns to part with forward _Boris Diaw_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2167) and defensive ace _Raja Bell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=49) , two mainstays from the team that averaged 58 wins over the past four seasons under former Suns coach Mike D'Antoni. The Suns also received a future second-round pick from the Bobcats and forward _Jared Dudley_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3201) while sending _Sean Singletary_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3459) to the Bobcats. "We felt like we needed to shake things up a little bit," Suns general manager Steve Kerr said in a telephone interview. "We wanted to add a great scorer in the backcourt to give us better balance to take some of the pressure off of _Steve [Nash]_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=592) ." The deal is essentially a wash for both teams financially but fits into the recent objectives of both teams, who have been among the league's most active in trade discussions during this hectic first six weeks of the season. The Suns have been aching for more of a scoring threat at shooting guard next to Nash. The 6-foot-6 Richardson is a two-time NBA slam dunk champion and an accomplished 3-point shooter who is averaging 18.7 points this season and 18.8 for his pro career. "I've watched Jason for a long time," said Bobcats general manager _Rod Higgins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3734) , who also was with Richardson in Golden State. "Just watching him grow, he grew from where he started to where he is today with his ability to score the basketball. "You know it's tough, but Jason was very good about it, very professional about him going to Phoenix. We wish him nothing but the best. He was very good for us." Golden State made Richardson the fifth pick overall out of Michigan State in the 2001 draft. He played six seasons for the Warriors, averaging a career-best 23.2 points in 2005-06. He was traded to Charlotte in June, 2007, in a financially motivated move by the Warriors. His contract runs through the 2010-11 seasons. The Bobcats, meanwhile, have been looking for a frontcourt partner for _Emeka Okafor_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2399) and will be hoping that Diaw's offensive versatility fits well next to the bigger Okafor after initially pursuing a more traditional big man such as _Los Angeles Clippers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac) center _Chris Kaman_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1982) . Diaw will help with Charlotte's biggest problem, and Brown's biggest complaint: its thin frontcourt. Diaw could start right away for struggling _Sean May_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2776) at power forward. "We needed to become bigger," Higgins said. The 6-8 Diaw averaged 13.3 points, 6.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists in place of the injured Stoudemire in 2005-06. Diaw was rewarded with a five-year, $45 million contract extension in October of 2006. The versatile Diaw had seen his playing time dwindle behind _Amare Stoudemire_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727) . The Suns still liked his skills but not his salary. He is getting $9 million this season and has three more years on his contract. The hard-nosed Bell, furthermore, figures to be an instant favorite for new Bobcats coach Larry Brown, whose young team is short on veterans with Bell's know-how. Bell was a first-team all-defensive team selection in 2006-07 and second team last season. The 32-year-old came to the Suns as a free agent in 2005 and thrived under D'Antoni's up-tempo system, gaining notoriety when he was suspended for a 2006 playoff game against the _Los Angeles Lakers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) after throwing _Kobe Bryant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110) to the floor. Bell, though, was possibly Nash's closest friend on the team, so the trade does come with an emotional component for Phoenix. But the Suns have clearly struggled in their transition from D'Antoni to new coach _Terry Porter_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=668) -- with Nash publicly complaining more than once about the Suns' subpar effort and lifeless demeanor -- so a shake-up trade was not unexpected. Dudley, a 6-foot-7 second-year pro, started seven games for Charlotte this season. "We really like _Jared Dudley_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3201) as well," Kerr said, "so our efforts to get younger and to add versatility and energy were important to us." Senior writer Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 05:12:03 2008 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:12:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wake Up, Danny Ainge, Your Competitors Are Strenghthening Themselves Message-ID: <348151.98089.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What happened to the Trader Dan persona we all knew and loved? It's time for it to make a return, finalize a trade, and deal with the growing menace of the hard charging Cavs, the redone Suns and their brilliant acquisition of Jason Richardson, the reinforced Hornets, the always troubling Lakers, and clubs that prevent matchup difficulties such as Denver and Utah. ? ? Could the Celtics pull off a similar deal to the one the Suns made with Richardson and acquire Corey Maggette from the Warriors, like many players, seemingly not well suited for the Warriors system and whose long term contract can't be pleasing to GS ownership? Ray From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 11 05:34:54 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:34:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Play points to Rondo having a Star chance Message-ID: <73914.19271.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Enjoy... From: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/12/11/play_points_to_rondo_having_a_star_chance/ Play points to Rondo having a Star chance By Frank Dell'Apa Globe Staff /December 11, 2008 ???????? ? WALTHAM - There might not be enough statistics to go around to qualify more than three Celtics for the All-Star Game. But if measured by quality rather than quantity, Rajon Rondo could have a chance to be named to play in the Feb. 15 game in Phoenix. "He's the best point guard in the Eastern Conference," Ray Allen said of his teammate yesterday. "He's been fun to watch, and the record of the team supports it." Said Paul Pierce, "[Rondo] is playing like an All-Star; he's one of the top point guards in the NBA. He's full of confidence; coming off a championship does that to young players. I hope he continues to get better - it's only his third year - and that he doesn't get complacent and he continues to grow." The Celtics take a 20-2 record into tonight's visit to Washington, and Rondo has been a driving force as they have shifted into a higher gear. But Rondo's numbers - 10.3 points and 7.6 assists per game - would be low for an All-Star selection. Allen, Pierce, and Kevin Garnett, who dominate the Celtics' stat charts, performed in the All-Star Game last year and are strong candidates to repeat. "If I don't make it, it's not a big deal," Rondo said. "My goal is to be on the All-Defensive team and win a championship. "You can look at box scores, but you actually have to watch games and see matchups to see who really is the defensive stopper . . . But a lot of times they go off steals, but I don't think that's what counts." Among Rondo's most effective tactics is poking away dribbles from behind, a play that often leads to Celtic fast breaks. "It's a gamble," Rondo said. "Either I get it or it's a foul, one or the other. The coaches don't like it, but I think I have a talent for stealing the ball. Sometimes it's a bad thing to do, but a lot of times I do get the ball. "I try to make plays. I try to get the ball and I think I'm good at doing that. It leads to fast-break points, you get the momentum going, and you get a stop defensively." Celtics named All-Stars despite low numbers have included Bill Russell (who averaged 9.9 points per game in 1968-69) and Paul Silas (10.6 ppg in 1974-75). Detroit's Ben Wallace averaged 7.3 points in the 2005-06 season, when he was among four Pistons chosen for the All-Star Game. The Celtics could become the first team since Detroit with four All-Stars and, like that group of Pistons, have no All-Star starters. Garnett led the voting last season but he is competing at the forward position with Cleveland's LeBron James and New Jersey's Yi Jianlian of China. Voting concludes Jan. 19. Washington is expected to test the Celtics, despite having a 4-15 record. They replaced coach Eddie Jordan with Ed Tapscott after a 1-10 start. "They played us well last year, they took it to us," said Celtics coach Doc Rivers. "They are aggressive and they'll be like that [tonight]. They are coming off an unbelievable win over Detroit, down 15 and came back and won, [107-94]. That's an impressive win. They are playing differently - defense, you can say that's their focus right now, becoming a better defensive team. When there is a new coach, guys tend to have more energy for a while. [Tapscott] has been around the game long enough, he's a jack-of-all-trades, and he's been everywhere. That probably makes him more qualified." The Celtics have winning streaks of 12 games overall and eight games on the road. "You don't get anything for being 20-2. I tell the players that all the time," Rivers said. "You get a lot of guys telling you how great you are and you get caught up in that." The Celtics returned from Indiana early Monday morning and had consecutive practice days for just the second time since the opening week of the season. "We almost got into a game rhythm, so it was a shock to the system of all of us," Rivers said. "Guys wanted to play [yesterday], but it was nice to have a chance to get adjusted. It does break the rhythm a little bit, and we have to get that going quickly, because we have tough games [tonight] and [tomorrow, against New Orleans]." Pierce detected no drop-off in the Celtics' concentration. "You can tell guys are really focused, day in and day out, at practice," Pierce said. "There's no complacency, no letdown." Marc J. Spears of the Globe staff contributed to this report. ? Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From shizzjr at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 07:26:27 2008 From: shizzjr at hotmail.com (Shawn Niles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:26:27 -0500 Subject: Wake Up, Danny Ainge, Your Competitors Are Strenghthening Themselves In-Reply-To: <348151.98089.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <348151.98089.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree... because I have just been thoroughly dissapointed with this 20-2 start. > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:12:03 -0800> From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com> Subject: Wake Up, Danny Ainge, Your Competitors Are Strenghthening Themselves> To: celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com; celtics at igtc.com> > What happened to the Trader Dan persona we all knew and loved?> > It's time for it to make a return, finalize a trade, and deal with the growing menace> of the hard charging Cavs, the redone Suns and their brilliant acquisition of Jason > Richardson, the reinforced Hornets, the always troubling Lakers, and clubs that> prevent matchup difficulties such as Denver and Utah. > > Could the Celtics pull off a similar deal to the one the Suns made with Richardson > and acquire Corey Maggette from the Warriors, like many players, seemingly not well suited for the Warriors system and whose long term contract can't be pleasing to GS ownership?> > Ray> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> The Boston Celtics Mailing List> celtics at igtc.com> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Dec 11 08:16:24 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:16:24 EST Subject: Despite 20-2 start, best team is its own worst critic Message-ID: Despite 20-2 start, best team is its own worst critic By _Ken Berger_ (http://www.sportsline.com/columns/writers/berger) CBSSports.com Senior Writer (http://www.sportsline.com/print/nba/story/11164157) (http://www.sportsline.com/emailafriend/index?location=http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/111 64157&title=Despite%2020-2%20start,%20best%20team%20is%20its%20own%20worst%20c ritic%20-%20NBA) (http://www.sportsline.com/xml/rss) (javascript: void(0);) WALTHAM, Mass. -- Here in the _Celtics'_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/teams/page/BOS) practice gym, where banner No. 17 hangs like a crisp, clean dress shirt in a closet full of hand-me-downs, the most absurd exercise in American sports takes place: trying to find something wrong with the Celtics. Their mission to repeat as champions has been a cakewalk so far. They're 20-2 heading into at game at Washington on Thursday night, and another victory would break the record for the best start in the history of this storied franchise. Better than the 1963-64 team of Auerbach, Russell, and Havlicek. Better than last year's team, which won 66 regular-season games and captured the franchise's first title since 1986. Great stuff. Wonderful history. If only these Celtics cared. And if only these Celtics were as hungry as last year's team. Danny Ainge fears that in some ways, they're not. "I think they have a great deal of confidence in themselves as a team," said Ainge, the team president who played on four Celtics teams that went to the Finals and two that won championships. "But I've seen them take some quarters off. Didn't see that last year." Ah, the glorious life of a general manager whose team is coming off a championship and on pace to win 74 games. Gotta find something to nitpick. "Doing what they did last year was remarkable from a daily effort and focus standpoint," Ainge said. "I never played on a team that had as much focus as this team (last season). This year, I see them more like the teams I played on in the '80s in that they have a little bit of a swagger, some confidence, and sometimes they believe they can win -- and they have been able to win. But they haven't had that constant focus that they did last year. It's not as consistent." Finding a missing link in this Celtics ring of honor is like finding a team for Stephon Marbury. You need to look really, really hard. But believe it or not, there are some things Doc Rivers' team isn't doing as well as it did a year ago. The fact that such minute details have attracted the attention of Ainge, and become the unmitigated focus of the players and coaches, is an awfully bad sign for anyone with designs on trying to knock them off. "If you sit on that 20-2, then all you have is the best record," _Ray Allen_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6457) said. "We're talking about winning a championship. It's good to be in that situation where you're constantly trying to improve, because teams that watch us now, they're watching the last game we played and what they can do to beat us." Which brings us to the Lakers, and to comments made recently by Derek Fisher. The Lakers are obsessed with the Celtics. They've circled Christmas Day on the calendar -- not with visions of $10,000 stocking stuffers, but with anticipation for their first meeting with Boston since the Finals. Their minds were already there Sunday night at Staples Center before playing the Milwaukee Bucks. A bunch of Lakers devoted pregame preparation time to watching the end of the Celtics-Pacers game on TV in the players' lounge and training rooms. They groaned when Boston got some favorable calls down the stretch. A story in the Orange County Register described how Sasha Vujacic walked into the main locker room, shaking his head after _Paul Pierce's_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/20626) 3-pointer forced overtime. The Celtics won 122-117 in OT. "Quite honestly," Fisher said, "if we're the best we can be, we'll beat 'em." Allen professed no knowledge of this comment -- "You would have to be really searching on the websites to try to figure out what they're talking about," he said -- but he did issue this subtle challenge in response. "That's what we want," he said. "We want to play a team at their best. That's going to bring the best out of us." On the surface, it is difficult to differentiate between this 20-2 Celtics team and the one that pushed the Lakers around in the Finals this past June. The Big Three are still big. Defense remains the foundation. They lead the league in opponent field goal percentage (.415) and are second in points allowed (90.95), just like last year. The only discernable difference crops up when you examine Boston's ability to shoot and defend the shot that the late, great Auerbach so detested: the 3-pointer. The Celtics are 17th at shooting it this season (.352) and seventh at defending it (.332), after being fifth (.381) and first (.316) a year ago. The reason isn't hard to pinpoint: It's the absence of _James Posey_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/139089) , who left the magical green carpet ride for a bigger payday in New Orleans. Posey was a deft 3-point shooter, and his length on defense helped set the tone for the Celtics' second unit, which rarely let anyone off the hook after the starters had built a lead. Funny, the Celtics will see Posey on Friday night in New Orleans, where he'll be presented with his championship ring. "I'm happy he was a part of what we did last year, and I'm a little upset that he couldn't be with us this year for the journey," Pierce said. "But I'm happy for him because he was a big part of what we did." If the Celtics have an Achilles' heel -- and it's way too early to call it that -- it's the bench. With Posey in New Orleans and P.J. Brown retired, Rivers has turned to a less-experienced second unit led by _Tony Allen_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/498270) , _Leon Powe_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/1113175) , and _Glen "Big Baby" Davis_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231865) to protect leads and defend the Celtics' honor. If you will allow me the same license Ainge has to nitpick, they've struggled at it. The situation boiled over last Friday night, when _Kevin Garnett_ (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6581) ripped into the second unit for letting a big lead slip away against Portland. Garnett and the other starters had to go back in and finish the job. The video of K.G. eviscerating the backups during a timeout, with words apparently so tough they brought Big Baby to tears on the bench, became an immediate YouTube sensation. "He wasn't getting on me," Davis said. "I was just upset because we lost the lead. I'm a competitive guy, an emotional guy, and I want to win. ... Everybody assumed that I was mad because K.G. said something to me. No. K.G.'s one of my role models. I would never get upset like that towards him. And everything he tells me is to help me, not to hurt me." As crazy as it sounds, Ainge will continue to look for ways to upgrade the roster. But for the most part, the minor details will be handled in-house. Even in these tough times, there are no 6-foot-8, championship-tested swingmen who shoot and defend the three on the unemployment line. During their first three-day break of the season, it's safe to assume that the extra practice time is being put to good use. It's a good bet, too, that the Celtics will emerge from it playing better than they were before -- if that's possible. The fact that they believe it is tells you everything you need to know about what goes on in this practice gym adorned with all the banners. "We're not getting bored," Pierce said. "We have a nice streak going, but the guys understand it's a process. Everybody loved that feeling of winning the championship, and we're trying to go out there and do it again." **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Dec 12 07:10:08 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:10:08 EST Subject: Historic Night For the Defending Champions Message-ID: Historic Night For the Defending Champions By Kevin Arnovitz ESPN.com The Celtics' 122-88 thumping of the Wizards on Thursday added another historic notch to Boston's 2008-09 campaign. With 21 wins in their first 23 games, the Celtics eclipsed their franchise record for the best start to a season. Six more wins against New Orleans, Utah, Atlanta, Chicago, the Knicks, and Philadelphia -- five of them at home -- and they'll stand alone atop history, besting the 1969-70 Knicks and the 1966-67 Sixers, who each started 26-2. The 13-game win streak is Boston's longest since winning 14 straight late in the 1985-86 season. Of course, the Celtics are no strangers to rarified air. Head coach _Doc Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) told the Boston Globe that a stellar finish is far more important to the team than a jackrabbit start. Championships have a way of trivializing the novel, and nothing accomplished in autumn for the title-holders can offer any measure of fulfillment. Thursday night, the Celtics shot a blistering 55.7 percent and generated 31 assists off their 44 made shots. After _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) hit _Kendrick Perkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2018) on a perfect backdoor cut with 2:54 left in the first, the Wizards never sniffed single digits. Boston managed to rest four of its five starters for the entire fourth quarter. _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) settled matters early, beating his defenders off screens to drain four shots from beyond the arc in the first quarter. He finished with 22 points. _Paul Pierce_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) wasn't graceful but still tormented the Wizards' defense, earning six trips to the line [off fouls committed by six different Wizards] to also finish with 22 points. What's made the Celtics so devastating this season is their ability to vary their offense so effortlessly. The Celtics beat opponents with a kick-and-drive scheme initiated by _Rajon Rondo_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026) . But they're just as apt to come down with a lot of fluid ball motion. At times, they employ an almost Sloan-like flex offense. Everyone in the starting lineup understands how to use space, even the hulking Perkins, who can navigate the baseline and fill a vacant spot underneath as well as any big man. All these offensive principles were at work last season. Even though opponents have since learned the Celtics' playbook, they're still powerless because Boston's execution is so precise. Perhaps Washington isn't the best measuring stick to gauge the C's force. The Wizards were unable to build on a solid home win over Detroit on Tuesday night and dropped to 4-16 on the season. _Caron Butler_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) and _Antawn Jamison_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) , who picked up the slack last season during _Gilbert Arenas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=974) ' absence, appeared worn down, though they combined for 36 points. The Wizards were slow to the ball all night. The team gave up 12 offensive boards, but collected only 20 defensive rebounds -- an atrocious ratio. Help arrived for Washington's thin backcourt on Wednesday, when the Wizards acquired Memphis castaways _Mike James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1051) and _Javaris Crittenton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3197) . Both saw action ... in a manner of speaking. James went 0-for-6 from the field in 11 minutes, while Crittenton committed four turnovers in six minutes without a point, rebound, or assist. Kevin Arnovitz is an NBA editor for ESPN.com. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Dec 12 15:22:42 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:22:42 EST Subject: Pierce's transformation into tough guy Message-ID: Pierce's transformation into tough guy (http://search.espn.go.com/david-thorpe/) By David Thorpe Scouts Inc. In last season's dramatic Game 7 between Cleveland and Boston in the Eastern Conference semifinals, _Paul Pierce_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) made a play that basically went unnoticed in the game's recap. It was lost in a sea of points (41 for Pierce, 45 for _LeBron James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) ) and appears in the official play-by-play as "NBA: Jump ball: _James Posey_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) vs. _Zydrunas Ilgauskas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) (Paul Pierce gains possession)." With one minute left in the game and Boston hanging on to a three-point lead, Pierce lined up next to James on the jump ball. There was an obvious spot between James and Sasha Pavlovic for the taller Ilgauskas to tip the ball. And everyone on the court knew it. It would come down to who wanted it more. Garnett occupied Pavlovic as the ball came right to the expected spot, a couple feet away from LeBron, who only had to make a few slides to gain possession. However, as soon as the ball was tossed up, Pierce cut James off and gained an advantage. The ball squirted away with both stars giving chase, and it was Pierce who had the presence of mind to dive on the ball and call a timeout. It was a gritty play, one that required toughness, anticipation and being totally in the moment. It was the kind of play that does not define a player, but makes one. For Pierce, from that moment forward he was the NBA's best player in the playoffs. This season, Pierce has picked up right where he left off. He scored 27 points against the Cavs in the Celtics' opener and helped limit LeBron to 22 points on 21 shots. He was the game's best player that night, attacking James from the start with a hard-charging dunk for his team's first points of the season. And following that up with a change-of-pace, baseline-dribble attack, banging LeBron down and then hitting him with a reverse. It was an old man's bucket, coming after a young man's dunk. It set the tone for who Pierce is going to be this season: Everyman. Points, boards, defense, intangibles. He no longer seems worried about style. Instead, he is locked in on the substance of his team's performance, yet is still comfortable being the man when the matchup calls for it. Against Toronto on Nov. 10, Pierce struggled in the first half, hitting just 2-of-10 shots, and Boston trailed by 15 in the third quarter. But then he took over, hitting 8 of his last 12 shots and finishing with 36 points. He scored 22 in the fourth quarter alone to keep the Celtics undefeated. Two nights later, in a matchup with then-undefeated Atlanta, emotions ran high thanks not only to the two teams' records but also because of their seven-game series in the first round of the playoffs the previous April. Again, Pierce played the role of MVP, scoring 34 points, playing great defense and hitting the game-winning jumper with half a second left in the game. And then on Dec. 1, in a battle with Orlando, Pierce broke open a two-point game at halftime with 17 third-quarter points en route to a team-high 24 and another Celtics win over a fellow East contender. What I like best about what Pierce did in those four games is this: He attempted 48 free throws on 68 shots. And for the season, he's at 7.8 attempts on just 13 shot attempts per game, only the third time in his career that he's had that high a ratio of free throws to field goals. As players advance in years on the downside of their careers, we expect them to shoot fewer free throws, not more. This speaks to the lesson he learned on that jump ball, that he can impose his will on a game without feeling hot with his shot; they are two separate entities. And that's what I'm seeing in games -- Pierce imposing his will, when needed, by attacking the rim and not just settling for his jumper. It appears he has trimmed down some from years past (always a great idea for a wing player over 30 years old), enabling him to still have some quickness and lift attacking the rim. He's as crafty as ever, changing speeds and driving angles to create opportunities for himself, and still has the moxie to use his body to gain leverage down under. To be sure, he has not been shooting and finishing as accurately this season as he has in past seasons. His player efficiency rating of 16.58 (career low) and his true shooting percentage of 55.7 percent (lowest since 2003-04) are evidence of that. He may still be adjusting to carrying less weight -- it takes time to learn how to absorb contact inside and still maintain his balance to finish. He's also not always locking in on his shot, especially in games where it's clear that Boston has an easy road to victory. With All-Star caliber teammates like _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) , _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) and now _Rajon Rondo_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026) , Pierce does not have to don his superhero cape nearly as often as he did years ago. He still can when the Celtics need him to, but he's also making things easier for his teammates, especially Allen and Rondo. When defended by smaller guys, PP likes to go right inside, instead of proving he can out-shake a smaller man with his perimeter game. That's the right attitude to have, to punish a team that sends a smaller guy to him. It's partly a veteran's understanding, taking advantage of something every chance he gets (as opposed to missing opportunities), but it's also the product of his new mindset. A player who has learned to impose his will on a game without relying purely on scoring must be a factor on defense. And Pierce is still totally bought in on this end. Watch him crowd a quicker player on the perimeter, knowing he'll get beat but forcing him to a weaker spot on the floor. Watch him hustle to close out a shooter, even risking fouling the jump shooter on occasion (which used to be a sin) to better contest the shooter. Watch him use his body to muscle up a post player trying to get a good position on the blocks. For the Celtics to play the kind of defense they do each night, messages must be sent. They can't expect to defend important positions on the floor just by using hustle and athleticism. Brute physicality needs to be part of the equation. And Pierce is willing to be part of that formula, too. Only _Kendrick Perkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2018) , who's long and strong, commits more fouls than Pierce. Pierce is fouling 2.8 times per game, more than he has in years. While Pierce still has worlds of talent, it's his toughness that jumps out at me now. And his desire to win, without a care as to how it happens. This from the player who experts thought was the most selfish player in the 2002 World Championship debacle. The same guy who was a part of the Celtics' devastating loss against Indiana in the 2005 playoffs. And the same guy whom I doubt anyone would think "tough guy" if asked to describe him. But that's who he is now. And as a result, the Celtics are simply out-toughing the league again this year, both mentally and physically. Sure, there are more glamorous small forwards in the league. There are scorers with great technique like _Caron Butler_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705) and _Carmelo Anthony_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1975) . And there are newcomers like _Danny Granger_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) , _Kevin Durant_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3202) and _Rudy Gay_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3005) . But if I had to choose one small forward to help my team win a series, besides LeBron, I'd go with the guy who doesn't need to carry the team with his shooting talent alone, but who can impact it with his will and his toughness. And that's the Truth. David Thorpe is an NBA analyst for Scouts Inc. and the executive director of the Pro Training Center at the IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla., where he oversees the player development program for more than 40 NBA, European League and D-League players. Those players include _Kevin Martin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394) , _Rob Kurz_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3837) , _Luol Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) , _Courtney Lee_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3445) and _Tyrus Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) . To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=13886) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Dec 12 15:26:58 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:26:58 EST Subject: Rondo's a big reason why C's are rolling Message-ID: Rondo's a big reason why C's are rolling (http://search.espn.go.com/david-thorpe/) By David Thorpe Scouts Inc. NBA executives believe that you must have one of the top players in the world or three All-Star caliber players in order to compete for a title. Complementary players, or glue guys, are important too, but without the megastar or trio of All-Stars, a team just won't have enough firepower to get the ring. Boston certainly subscribed to the theory last season with the big three of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. And it worked. With that said, this year's Celtics, back with basically the same roster minus one key glue guy (James Posey), are smashing the competition even more impressively than they did last season. How are they doing it? It's simple: They now have four All-Stars. The emergence of Rajon Rondo is driving these champions to new heights. And the scary part is that Rondo is still a long way from reaching his vast potential. The keys to Rondo's success are unorthodox, to be sure. He's a poor shooter in general, especially for a point guard. And that was the knock on him coming into last season. But Rondo combines a set of four distinct talents into a unique package. 1. He's incredibly athletic and long for his size, so his impact on the rebounding and defensive side of the game is substantial. 2. He's a warrior who competes hard on every play and brings as much "will" to the game as Garnett and Pierce. 3. He's much more of a pure point guard than he's given credit for, sharing the ball beautifully while not being afraid to make something happen for himself when necessary. 4. He's one of the best finishers in basketball at his position. Consider the stats of his peers. According to 82games.com, Chris Paul makes 68 percent of his "close shots" and takes 31 percent of his overall shots from that distance. Another brilliant slasher who's having a great year, Devin Harris, hits 60.2 percent of his close shots, which he takes 32 percent of the time. Meanwhile, Tony Parker makes 62.1 percent of his close shots, which he also takes 32 percent of the time. But Rondo's numbers are so good they seem silly. A staggering 52 percent of his shots come near the rim, and he makes an even more staggering 72 percent of them. That fact alone has helped Boston improve its offense to a top-10 level. And combined with its still-suffocating defense (thanks in good measure to Rondo's talents), the Celtics are off to a franchise-best start. NBA GMs find it hard enough to develop or acquire three All-Star caliber players. Growing that number to four will be immeasurably harder, but that's what Rondo's development may force them to do. David Thorpe is an NBA analyst for Scouts Inc. and the executive director of the Pro Training Center at the IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla., where he oversees the player development program for more than 40 NBA, European League and D-League players. Those players include _Kevin Martin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2394) , _Rob Kurz_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3837) , _Luol Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) , _Courtney Lee_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3445) and _Tyrus Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) . To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=13886) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From callmebogie at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 15:49:50 2008 From: callmebogie at yahoo.com (Michael Gooen) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:49:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Just when I thought I couldn't have more respect for Ray Allen than I already did In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67063.45518.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/2008_12_12_Holocaust_Memorial_a_dose_of_reality/ (Not mentioned in the article, but mentioned during last night's telecast, is that one of the Celtics asked Allen "What about slavery?" Allen responded that the Holocaust WAS slavery and that its lessons mattered to everyone.) WASHINGTON - It wasn?t all basketball for the Celtics [team stats] on their trip to the capital. Ray Allen brought a group of players, coaches and team personnel to the Holocaust Memorial Museum Wednesday. ?So many times we get caught up in our everyday lives and what?s going on around us, and that was an opportunity for us to see something that I think is about the human condition,? Allen said before last night?s 122-88 win over the Washington Wizards. ?I?ve been five times. It?s something that?s affected all of us, and it affects society today. It gets to you. (Glen Davis), it affected him greatly. When you see stuff like that, you think about how you can take better care of humankind now in the position we?re all in.? Doc Rivers was among those on the tour. Oh, it was phenomenal,? he said. ?It was really eye-opening. Ray set it all up. We took one of the buses right from the airport straight there.? Asked what he learned, Rivers said, ?Obviously I knew about the masses, but I didn?t know it was 6 million. But there were a lot of interesting things that you find out, like how they kept selling hope to them even going into the death chamber.? The visit was especially poignant for Celtics massage therapist Vlad Shulman, a Russian emigre whose mother lost 11 of her 14 siblings in the Holocaust. From BDodgers at aol.com Fri Dec 12 16:23:39 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:23:39 EST Subject: From ESPN Message-ID: _Kevin Garnett's Big Mouth_ (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-45/Kevin-Garnett-s-Big-Mouth.html) (http://myespn.go.com/profile/violation?ou=truehoopadmin&at=7&vid=1229100341429) Kevin Garnett has a big mouth. Everyone knows that. _I blogged about it_ (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-24/Monday-Bullets.html) a little the other day. No more than a passing mention, it nevertheless got a big reaction. All kinds of e-mail and comments flooded in, with strong emotions on all sides. Apparently I had stumbled across one of the NBA's emotional trip wires. My assumption has always been that Kevin Garnett is no different from the loudest guy at your pickup game. What he says means not too much, in the big picture. But maybe there is more to it. I have asked many and various NBA experts to weigh in: The Circus Sideshow No current NBA players I spoke to would speak on the record about Garnett (which tells you something, I guess) but three said that while he talks too much, it is to little effect. They dismissed Garnett's mouth as something between a non-factor and a nuisance, _echoing Quentin Richardson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281118002) , who told the Associated Press last month that Garnett is no threat to back up his many tough claims: I come from a neighborhood where you can say what you want to say, but 'til you do something, it don't mean nothing. Some of those guys are happy to get a ring, but you ain't been in the league long enough to talk to people like that. I don't have a lot of respect for that. Like I said, I'd be curious to h ear what they have to say in a different setting, I'd be very curious to see that. In this view, Garnett's screaming could be seen as the funny-looking sidecar hitched to the turbo-charged motorcycle that is his passion. It's a great package. But maybe the motorcycle could be improved by ditching the sidecar? Or maybe it doesn't matter. Former Maverick, Sonic and Pacer Sam Perkins, who is known for his laid-back demeanor as a player, and is currently the Pacers' vice president of player relations, weighs in: I don't think he's crossed any lines. KG is in the same category emotion-wise as Terrell Owens. Those two guys play with such emotion that some people mistake it for being boastful or arrogant. KG wears his emotions on the outside, some players show it differently. People just aren't as used to it. Chris Ballard of Sports Illustrated says that while what comes out of Garnett's mouth can certainly cross a line (remember in 2004 when Garnett talked about "loading up the Uzis" and the like in preparation for a playoff game) a lot of Garnett's talk appears to be almost random -- to himself, to no one, even to the basket supports: I'm not sure aggressive is the right word so much as surreal, especially in the case of that treeing-Jerryd-Bayless moment. There are different types of trash talk, and that was a far cry from the kind that Jordan and Bird employed -- you know, with a purpose, as part of a mind game, often playful. It's as if, after winning a title, Garnett's finally given himself license to go totally primal whenever the urge strikes. ... But if this is the price that must be paid to see Garnett at full intensity -- and I'm not so sure it is, but I suppose it's possible -- then it's a price I'm willing to pay. Elitism Players, front office personnel and others suggest that against the NBA's real tough men, Garnett is deferential. He saves his disdain for players he considers beneath his level. (Indeed, my original mention of Garnett was about his menacing rookie benchwarming guard Jerryd Bayless.) One typical story is of a rookie from another team, a few seasons ago, attempting to make small talk with Garnett in a meaningless game at the end of the year. The player had grown up admiring Garnett, but the veteran told him in no uncertain terms that he did not want to hear from any such rookie. Steve Aschburner writes for MinnPost.com and Sports Illustrated, and covered just about every moment of Garnett's Minnesota career. He explains: I always found it, let's say, quirky that Garnett would have these dust-ups with some of the most unlikely combatants. Guys like Andrew Bogut (no offense but not yet all-NBA), Mark Pope, Joel Przybilla, Rick Rickert (in a summer pickup game), Wally Szczerbiak, Francisco Elson, Tyrone Nesby, Anthony Peeler. The list doesn't exactly read like an All-Star roster, which then makes people wonder if he is more likely to bully a fringe guy than he is to take on one of his giants-of-the-game peers. Some growling or staredowns with fellas such as Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudemire through the years, but nothing approaching flailing, skirmishes or donnybrooks. No doubt it stems from some sort of passion, but it also seems to pack an element of umbrage taken when some mere mortal gets on his cloud. It would be nice if he would cool it. Fuel of Titles One view -- and it seems to be the default view among Celtics fans -- is that Garnett's passion is the fire that galvanizes the Celtics and forged a champion, and that his mouth is a key to the passion that drives his team, the league, the companies that he represents, and the sport itself. Basketball trainer Idan Ravin has worked with many NBA All-Stars, and believes what Garnett is doing is no accident: Never underestimate the level of sophistication of the professional athlete. While some may consider Kevin Garnett's antics to be over-the-top and reckless, I think they are intentional and part of his basketball psychology: to motivate and inspire his teammates and himself, and to disorient and annoy his opponents. This basketball psychology is a large part of why Kevin Garnett has had years of success at this level, and why he has been able to maintain an incredible level of intensity and consistency for over a decade. Ask anyone who has played with him and they will tell you he is a great teammate. Ask anyone who has played against him, and they will tell you he is a fierce competitor. Dave Zirin is a Slam columnist, and author of "A People's History of Sports in the United States." He says: The tired complaint against pro athletes is that they "just don't care" or are in it "just for the money." Now Kevin Garnett is under fire for caring too much?!? Do people really believe this? What color is the sky in this alternative universe? I want players to slap the floor with their hands, shoot daggers with their eyes, and bang the ball against their heads. That's what we did on my NYC High School team because we gave a damn something fierce. I'm sure an 82-game season is an unholy grind. But it's our privilege that we have a player who acts like it's anything but. A decade ago Garnett warned us that it wasn't about "the loot." We should have listened. Anthony Macri of The Basketball Academy & Pro Training Center at IMG Academies says: There have been a great many trash-talkers, aggressive and vocal on the court, in games, in practice, etc., whose team success trumps whatever negative aspects their yapping may put forth. Michael Jordan was a great example -- let us not forget he took the vocal sparring to a different level when he, according to reports, punched Steve Kerr in the face in practice. KG, I believe, uses his jawing to an advantage, working his opponent into a furor and creating, for his opponent, a "me against him" mentality. That creates extremely positive situations for the Celtics defense, which thrives on shutting down players who attempt to do everything themselves. In fact, it is only supremely unselfish teams, who can make quick passes from one side of the floor to the other, that can penetrate their defense. When one player is so focused on the "me against him" battle with KG, it gives their defense a helping hand. A Menace There is a certain minority out there who simply think Garnett's current actions have to be stopped, for the good of the game and the image of the League. A Western Conference executive speaks for this group when he says: I think the normal reaction to a situation like this [emotional player on another team drawing the ire of everyone outside of that particular team] is to say "well, you'd like it if he was on your team" ... call it the "Manu Ginobili Response." And in some ways it's true: many teams wish they had an aggressive, vocal leader to rile up the troops and get under the opposing players' skins. That being said, Kevin Garnett this year goes above and beyond that threshold. Crawling on all fours, clapping and pointing in a player's face as he dribbles up the court ... these antics are classless and have no place in our game. If Dikembe Mutombo can get T'd up for a finger wag (or a player who dunks on Mutombo can be T'd for wagging a finger back), where do you classify _what Garnett did to Calderon_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arh5bmAsWb0) ? The fact that the Celtics won the title last year (and continue to be the cream of the league this year) should not change the fact that what has been going on is unacceptable. As a league, we have certain guidelines and parameters for professionalism and sportsmanship, and these guidelines are not dictated by a team's record. I'm not saying get rid of all trash talking; basketball is a competitive sport, and letting those competitive juices fly on the court is a good thing. Passion for the game is a good thing. Being a complete jackass is not. Putting it All Together One Eastern Conference executive explained to me that Garnett's mouth gets him in trouble now and again. He has both argued and fought with teammates (last week he apparently reduced _Glen Davis to tears_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uSay2aWTc0) ), actions that potentially come with costs to the team's cohesion and success. But, he argues, you accept that, because it is indicative of his extraordinary passion, and because he puts forth such tremendous effort. Complaining about Kevin Garnett's mouth, he says, is like quibbling with the lipstick on a supermodel -- it misses the big point. The time Garnett's mouth really gets in the way? This expert says it's about the only thing that keeps Garnett from being the ideal role model for young players. He looks right at home in _that adidas video_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRygRYeZmSk) , talking to teenaged players. Of course everyone from high school big men to NBA rookies should study all kinds of things about Garnett. How he defends the pick and roll (love that fearlessness containing faster guards!), how he fires up his teammates, how his motor runs high at every moment ... in a these and a thousand other elements of the game, he is essentially perfect. In how he talks, however, Garnett really is not to be emulated. That's not the most important thing in the world. But it's not nothing, either. Like presidents, players tend to start worrying about their legacies at some point. And in that, having young players looking up to you might start to matter. Through it all, I remain unconvinced that Garnett needs to verbally abuse people to play basketball well, just as I remain convinced that there is tremendous value, in all walks of life, in treating others with dignity. Does that mean I'd be happy if Kevin Garnett toned it down? Honestly? I can't say it's that clear cut to me. Yes, he's rude. KG-5 is not PG-13. (I dare the NBA to mic that guy all night long.) The way he uses his voice is the kind of behavior that would get you kicked out of many pre-schools or fired from many workplaces. In almost any social setting, this would be considered somewhere between petulance and bullying. That doesn't mean I want those social standards applied here. Sports are special. On the playing field, certain kinds of immoderate behavior are, thank goodness, not only welcome, but helpful. Kids who aren't supposed to jump on the couch, throw things, or run too hard in the living room are supposed to jump higher, throw things harder, and run faster in sports. So all NBA players ought to have a certain leeway. And if Garnett goes even beyond that ... I wholly believe in the rule of doing things the right way. I also believe that sometimes, you break those rules, too. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From jlyell at verizon.net Fri Dec 12 16:58:37 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:58:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: From ESPN Message-ID: <936696.8043.qm@web84005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Reminds me of a guy named Larry Bird! John ________________________________ From: "BDodgers at aol.com" To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 4:23:39 PM Subject: From ESPN _Kevin? Garnett's Big Mouth_ (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-45/Kevin-Garnett-s-Big-Mouth.html)? (http://myespn.go.com/profile/violation?ou=truehoopadmin&at=7&vid=1229100341429)? Kevin Garnett has a big mouth. Everyone knows that. _I blogged about it_ (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-24/Monday-Bullets.html)? a? little the other day. No more than a passing mention, it nevertheless got a big? reaction. All kinds of e-mail and comments flooded in, with strong emotions on? all sides. Apparently I had stumbled across one of the NBA's emotional trip? wires. My assumption has always been that Kevin Garnett is no different from the? loudest guy at your pickup game. What he says means not too much, in the big? picture. But maybe there is more to it. I have asked many and various NBA experts to weigh in: The Circus Sideshow No current NBA players I? spoke to would speak on the record about Garnett (which tells you something, I? guess) but three said that while he talks too much, it is to little effect. They? dismissed Garnett's mouth as something between a non-factor and a nuisance, _echoing Quentin Richardson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281118002) , who told? the Associated Press last month that Garnett is no threat to back up his many? tough claims: I come from a neighborhood where you can say what you want to say, but 'til? you do something, it don't mean nothing. Some of those guys are happy to get a ring, but you ain't been in the league long enough to talk to people like? that. I don't have a lot of respect for that. Like I said, I'd be curious to? h ear what they have to say in a different setting, I'd be very curious to see? that. In this view, Garnett's screaming could be seen as the funny-looking sidecar? hitched to the turbo-charged motorcycle that is his passion. It's a great? package. But maybe the motorcycle could be improved by ditching the sidecar? Or maybe it doesn't matter. Former Maverick, Sonic and Pacer Sam Perkins, who is known for his laid-back demeanor as a player, and is currently the Pacers'? vice president of player relations, weighs in: I don't think he's crossed any lines. KG is in the same category? emotion-wise as Terrell Owens. Those two guys play with such emotion that some? people mistake it for being boastful or arrogant. KG wears his emotions on the? outside, some players show it differently. People just aren't as used to? it. Chris Ballard of Sports Illustrated says that while what comes out of? Garnett's mouth can certainly cross a line (remember in 2004 when Garnett talked? about "loading up the Uzis" and the like in preparation for a playoff game) a? lot of Garnett's talk appears to be almost random -- to himself, to no one, even? to the basket supports: I'm not sure aggressive is the right word so much as surreal, especially in? the case of that treeing-Jerryd-Bayless moment. There are different types of? trash talk, and that was a far cry from the kind that Jordan and Bird employed -- you know, with a purpose, as part of a mind game, often playful. It's as? if, after winning a title, Garnett's finally given himself license to go? totally primal whenever the urge strikes. ... But if this is the price that? must be paid to see Garnett at full intensity -- and I'm not so sure it is,? but I suppose it's possible -- then it's a price I'm willing to? pay. Elitism Players, front office personnel and? others suggest that against the NBA's real tough men, Garnett is deferential. He? saves his disdain for players he considers beneath his level. (Indeed, my? original mention of Garnett was about his menacing rookie benchwarming guard? Jerryd Bayless.) One typical story is of a rookie from another team, a few seasons ago,? attempting to make small talk with Garnett in a meaningless game at the end of? the year. The player had grown up admiring Garnett, but the veteran told him in? no uncertain terms that he did not want to hear from any such rookie. Steve Aschburner writes for MinnPost.com and Sports Illustrated, and covered? just about every moment of Garnett's Minnesota career. He explains: I always found it, let's say, quirky that Garnett would have these dust-ups? with some of the most unlikely combatants. Guys like Andrew Bogut (no offense? but not yet all-NBA), Mark Pope, Joel Przybilla, Rick Rickert (in a summer? pickup game), Wally Szczerbiak, Francisco Elson, Tyrone Nesby, Anthony Peeler.? The list doesn't exactly read like an All-Star roster, which then makes people? wonder if he is more likely to bully a fringe guy than he is to take on one of? his giants-of-the-game peers. Some growling or staredowns with fellas such as? Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudemire through the years, but nothing approaching? flailing, skirmishes or donnybrooks. No doubt it stems from some sort of? passion, but it also seems to pack an element of umbrage taken when some mere? mortal gets on his cloud. It would be nice if he would cool it. Fuel of Titles One view -- and it seems to be? the default view among Celtics fans -- is that Garnett's passion is the fire? that galvanizes the Celtics and forged a champion, and that his mouth is a key? to the passion that drives his team, the league, the companies that he? represents, and the sport itself. Basketball trainer Idan Ravin has worked with many NBA All-Stars, and? believes what Garnett is doing is no accident: Never underestimate the level of sophistication of the professional? athlete. While some may consider Kevin Garnett's? antics to be over-the-top and reckless, I think they are intentional and part? of his basketball psychology: to motivate and inspire his teammates and? himself, and to disorient and annoy his opponents. This basketball psychology? is a large part of why Kevin Garnett has had years of success at this level,? and why he has been able to maintain an incredible level of intensity and? consistency for over a decade. Ask anyone who has? played with him and they will tell you he is a great teammate. Ask anyone who? has played against him, and they will tell you he is a fierce? competitor. Dave Zirin is a Slam columnist, and author of "A People's History of? Sports in the United States." He says: The tired complaint against pro athletes is that they "just don't care" or? are in it "just for the money." Now Kevin Garnett is under fire for caring too much?!? Do people? really believe this?? What color is the sky in this alternative universe?? I want players to slap the floor with their hands, shoot daggers with their? eyes, and bang the ball against their heads. That's what we did on my NYC High? School team because we gave a damn something fierce.? I'm sure an 82-game season is an unholy grind. But it's our privilege? that we have a player who acts like it's anything but. A decade ago Garnett? warned us that it wasn't about "the loot." We should have listened. Anthony Macri of The Basketball Academy & Pro Training Center at IMG? Academies says: There have been a great many trash-talkers, aggressive and vocal on the? court, in games, in practice, etc., whose team success trumps whatever? negative aspects their yapping may put forth. Michael Jordan was a great? example -- let us not forget he took the vocal sparring to a different level? when he, according to reports, punched Steve Kerr in the face in practice. KG,? I believe, uses his jawing to an advantage, working his opponent into a furor? and creating, for his opponent, a "me against him" mentality. That creates? extremely positive situations for the Celtics defense, which thrives on? shutting down players who attempt to do everything themselves. In fact, it is? only supremely unselfish teams, who can make quick passes from one side of the? floor to the other, that can penetrate their defense. When one player is so? focused on the "me against him" battle with KG, it gives their defense a? helping hand. A Menace There is a certain minority out there? who simply think Garnett's current actions have to be stopped, for the good of? the game and the image of the League. A Western Conference executive speaks for? this group when he says: I think the normal reaction to a situation like this [emotional player on? another team drawing the ire of everyone outside of that particular team] is? to say "well, you'd like it if he was on your team" ... call it the "Manu? Ginobili Response." And in some ways it's true: many teams wish they had an? aggressive, vocal leader to rile up the troops and get under the opposing? players' skins. That being said, Kevin Garnett this year goes above and beyond that? threshold. Crawling on all fours, clapping and pointing in a player's face as? he dribbles up the court ... these antics are classless and have no place in? our game. If Dikembe Mutombo can get T'd up for a finger wag (or a player who? dunks on Mutombo can be T'd for wagging a finger back), where do you classify? _what Garnett did to Calderon_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arh5bmAsWb0) ? The fact that the Celtics won the title last year (and continue to be the? cream of the league this year) should not change the fact that what has been? going on is unacceptable. As a league, we have certain guidelines and? parameters for professionalism and sportsmanship, and these guidelines are not? dictated by a team's record. I'm not saying get rid of all trash talking; basketball is a competitive? sport, and letting those competitive juices fly on the court is a good thing.? Passion for the game is a good thing. Being a complete jackass is? not. Putting it All Together One Eastern Conference? executive explained to me that Garnett's mouth gets him in trouble now and? again. He has both argued and fought with teammates (last week he apparently? reduced _Glen Davis to tears_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uSay2aWTc0) ), actions that potentially come? with costs to the team's cohesion and success. But, he argues, you accept that,? because it is indicative of his extraordinary passion, and because he puts forth? such tremendous effort. Complaining about Kevin Garnett's mouth, he says, is? like quibbling with the lipstick on a supermodel -- it misses the big point.? The time Garnett's mouth really gets in the way? This expert says it's about? the only thing that keeps Garnett from being the ideal role model for young? players. He looks right at home in _that adidas video_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRygRYeZmSk) , talking to teenaged players. Of? course everyone from high school big men to NBA rookies should study all kinds? of things about Garnett. How he defends the pick and roll (love that? fearlessness containing faster guards!), how he fires up his teammates, how his? motor runs high at every moment ... in a these and a thousand other elements of? the game, he is essentially perfect. In how he talks, however, Garnett really is? not to be emulated. That's not the most important thing in the world. But it's not nothing,? either. Like presidents, players tend to start worrying about their legacies at? some point. And in that, having young players looking up to you might start to? matter. Through it all, I remain unconvinced that Garnett needs to verbally abuse? people to play basketball well, just as I remain convinced that there is? tremendous value, in all walks of life, in treating others with dignity. Does that mean I'd be happy if Kevin Garnett toned it down? Honestly? I can't say it's that clear cut to me. Yes, he's rude. KG-5 is not PG-13. (I dare the NBA to mic that guy all night? long.) The way he uses his voice is the kind of behavior that would get you? kicked out of many pre-schools or fired from many workplaces. In almost any? social setting, this would be considered somewhere between petulance and? bullying.? That doesn't mean I want those social standards applied here. Sports are? special. On the playing field, certain kinds of immoderate behavior are, thank? goodness, not only welcome, but helpful. Kids who aren't supposed to jump on the? couch, throw things, or run too hard in the living room are supposed to jump? higher, throw things harder, and run faster in sports. So all NBA players ought to have a certain leeway. And if Garnett goes even? beyond that ... I wholly believe in the rule of doing things the right way. I? also believe that sometimes, you break those rules,? too. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place.? Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From stevebknight at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 21:28:49 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:28:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: nowayray References: Message-ID: <97447.50498.qm@web37407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> why in the world would you want to give up anything we have (short of scal) for a selfish scorer like maggette, who's far more interested in his numbers than how the team plays? makes no sense. good game against NO. we didn't play particularly well and still won handily. they're not the team they were last year, posey or not. no depth, not enough help for cpaul, who i must admit is one hell of a pg. rondo's still got a ways to go to get to his level, but he's in the ballpark. Message: 3 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: Way Of The Ray Subject: Wake Up, Danny Ainge, Your Competitors Are Strenghthening Themselves To: Celtics Stuff , Celtics Are Idiots List Message-ID: <348151.98089.qm at web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 What happened to the Trader Dan persona we all knew and loved? It's time for it to make a return, finalize a trade, and deal with the growing menace of the hard charging Cavs, the redone Suns and their brilliant acquisition of Jason Richardson, the reinforced Hornets, the always troubling Lakers, and clubs that prevent matchup difficulties such as Denver and Utah. ? ? Could the Celtics pull off a similar deal to the one the Suns made with Richardson and acquire Corey Maggette from the Warriors, like many players, seemingly not well suited for the Warriors system and whose long term contract can't be pleasing to GS ownership? Ray From kmalo17 at verizon.net Fri Dec 12 23:32:40 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:32:40 -0500 Subject: This and that Message-ID: <0KBT004UY0YHK2D1@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> Nice to see Rondo loose, at least for one night vs NO, that really annoying habit of letting the ball bounce forever after an inbound before finally picking it up into a dribble, after it finally cost him vs Washington. Gotta admit that every time I've watched him do it I've thought that if I was the opposing PG, particularly a veteran with some respect for the game, I'd body slam him while "going for the ball" when he does it, and pay any fine with pleasure. Nice love fest at the Garden for Posey, at least up until BBD decided to show one of his mentors how well he sets a pick these days : ) Dunno how much they showed on TV but he got two loud standing Os as part of the ring ceremony. If there was a boo because he went elsewhere for the money, I didn't hear it, which trust me, for those who live elsewhere, is not the way it usually goes here in Boston. And I'm up in the balcony where you're more apt to get the idiot response. I was pretty amused to see Doc holding onto a handful of Posey's warmup while saying his bit about him, as if unconsciously thinking now that you're back we're not letting you go. Speaking of picks, some nice screens where Perk was actually picking off two guys at once on a play they ran a few times. Not that long ago you couldn't be sure of his picking off one without drawing a foul (and yes, I know he still occasionally draws them on picks, but it's no longer the assumption). Nice to see that someone or something has finally gotten through to Perk about his behavior vis the refs too. His second foul was a simply horrible call and he just walked it off, along with the others, so that at least if he was still making faces when he wasn't vocalizing, it wasn't in the ref's faces. I was trying to remember the last game I was at where he didn't get a T. Couldn't have been but it seemed like every game this year. And speaking of Perk, have I just not been paying attention... how long has KG been jumping center? Adam, if you're reading this, keep meaning to tell you that the reason that perfect KG image I mentioned isn't coming up on YouTube is probably because it's part of the longer pre-pregame montage they run before the anthem. The montages you see on YouTube are the later ones, right before the actual intros (I did go and look for you). If someone ever puts up the other one, the image I'm thinking of comes right after a Perk dunk, I think off a KG feed, and it's KG sitting on the bench with a Gatorade towel over his shoulders, leaning forward and quietly pumping his fist as he looks up from under with a devilish expression of unholy glee. The expression was one I'd expect him to have while enjoying something like Leon out there kicking butt and taking names. Kim From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Dec 13 02:32:45 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:32:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: This and that Message-ID: <72364.7003.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thanks Kim. I was thinking of writing you a thanks for posting good thoughts about a Celtics game (apart from body slamming Rondo ha ha). Anyway, thanks for looking up the YouTube videos. I'll continue to look for it also, it sounds like a good one. Here are a few good pics of "the devil man" to enjoy anyhow: http://redsarmy.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/kg2.jpg http://assets.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/23839/kg.jpg http://bp2.blogger.com/_RVLfSMIB7K0/R9FFjE9XegI/AAAAAAAAG9A/BcgsNI72Vwg/s400/001garnett.jpg :) --- Kim Malo wrote: Nice to see Rondo loose, at least for one night vs NO, that really annoying habit of letting the ball bounce forever after an inbound before finally picking it up into a dribble, after it finally cost him vs Washington. Gotta admit that every time I've watched him do it I've thought that if I was the opposing PG, particularly a veteran with some respect for the game, I'd body slam him while "going for the ball" when he does it, and pay any fine with pleasure. Nice love fest at the Garden for Posey, at least up until BBD decided to show one of his mentors how well he sets a pick these days : ) Dunno how much they showed on TV but he got two loud standing Os as part of the ring ceremony. If there was a boo because he went elsewhere for the money, I didn't hear it, which trust me, for those who live elsewhere, is not the way it usually goes here in Boston. And I'm up in the balcony where you're more apt to get the idiot response. I was pretty amused to see Doc holding onto a handful of Posey's warmup while saying his bit about him, as if unconsciously thinking now that you're back we're not letting you go. Speaking of picks, some nice screens where Perk was actually picking off two guys at once on a play they ran a few times. Not that long ago you couldn't be sure of his picking off one without drawing a foul (and yes, I know he still occasionally draws them on picks, but it's no longer the assumption). Nice to see that someone or something has finally gotten through to Perk about his behavior vis the refs too. His second foul was a simply horrible call and he just walked it off, along with the others, so that at least if he was still making faces when he wasn't vocalizing, it wasn't in the ref's faces. I was trying to remember the last game I was at where he didn't get a T. Couldn't have been but it seemed like every game this year. And speaking of Perk, have I just not been paying attention... how long has KG been jumping center? Adam, if you're reading this, keep meaning to tell you that the reason that perfect KG image I mentioned isn't coming up on YouTube is probably because it's part of the longer pre-pregame montage they run before the anthem. The montages you see on YouTube are the later ones, right before the actual intros (I did go and look for you). If someone ever puts up the other one, the image I'm thinking of comes right after a Perk dunk, I think off a KG feed, and it's KG sitting on the bench with a Gatorade towel over his shoulders, leaning forward and quietly pumping his fist as he looks up from under with a devilish expression of unholy glee. The expression was one I'd expect him to have while enjoying something like Leon out there kicking butt and taking names. Kim Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From kmalo17 at verizon.net Sat Dec 13 03:03:13 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:03:13 -0500 Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T Message-ID: <0KBT00E5GAPDWSU2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> OK, thinking about it last night as once again at a game I was surprised to find us up double digits (I don't tend to watch the score except at the end of close games or when there are obvious runs), I think I have at least part of the answer why despite the best record we still aren't getting the sort of love Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are from seemingly everyone outside of Boston. I don't really care, but I do wonder about it, since they aren't all idiots and I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. To begin with, we didn't start out as we did last season and as the Cavs have this season, blowing teams out by shocking amounts. And we don't have a one man Kobe and the Kobettes team where a single star's potential to take over the game shines so brightly as to put everything else out of focus. Don't get me wrong, we've plenty of star power and star power capable of taking over a game, but we're not defined by one uber-talent. Lead by Garnett, who'd rather set someone else up than shoot, we just win as a team with different people playing a key role each night. So there's not just one obvious thing you can point to, embrace, pucker up and say that's DOMINANCE. Other than winning, of course. I think the disconnect comes in where people perhaps assume we aren't visibly DOMINATING like that because we can't, where the point is that we're not trying to. Instead, rather than worrying about outscoring the other team, we're simply making sure they don't outscore us. Sounds like the same thing, but it's not. It's a difference in emphasis behind everything we do, based in valuing winning more than how you look getting there. That comes from maturity and security - last year we felt we had to prove a lot of things to people, including ourselves, individually and as a team. This year the only thing the Cs really feel the need to prove won't come until June. It's also based in the fact that prolific as our offense can be, we win with defense and know it. And defense, other than the odd block or steal, just is not flashy. It's not as obvious a form of dominance as dropping 40 points on someone. Even if you play 48 min of absolute lockdown defense, a surprising number will talk about the other team's "off shooting night" vs the reason for it. We don't need to do that anyway, we just need to make sure they don't score more than we do at the end. The irony is that our way is an even greater form of dominance because it's all about continually imposing your will. Some of those 40 points were simply easy, open shots. So we hit halftime more or less even. We probably could and should have been up at least a few possessions, but we were sloppier than we should have been at times on both ends of the court, and they're a good team with a great young leader. But then we're up a couple possessions and the lead doesn't swing back, then we're up 10 points and we're staying up those 10 points, maybe more, but not less. No obvious dramatic shift in momentum on the court, at least to the eye. At most you might note that we're just not making the sorts of mistakes we were earlier and doing a better job of making them pay when they do. But it's really just the better team exerting its will in gradually increasing dominance with enough constant pressure to keep the opponent down. Making it clear that while we weren't worried about turning that 10 point lead into 20 (usually when we've done that this season, the opponent has had a big role in it happening, and again, this is a good team), we also weren't going to let it get a worrisome amount under it. Steady 5-10 point leads aren't exciting or sexy or eye-catching... or apparently newsworthy and embraceable. They're just winning. From kmalo17 at verizon.net Sat Dec 13 03:14:36 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:14:36 -0500 Subject: This and that In-Reply-To: <72364.7003.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <72364.7003.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBT00767B8CA8F1@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> At 05:32 AM 12/13/2008, Adam Patterson wrote: >Thanks Kim. > >I was thinking of writing you a thanks for posting good thoughts >about a Celtics game (apart from body slamming Rondo ha ha). Yeah, I know, but I can't tell you how much I hate when he does that. >Anyway, thanks for looking up the YouTube videos. I'll continue to >look for it also, it sounds like a good one. > >Here are a few good pics of "the devil man" to enjoy anyhow: > >http://redsarmy.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/kg2.jpg > >http://assets.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/23839/kg.jpg > >http://bp2.blogger.com/_RVLfSMIB7K0/R9FFjE9XegI/AAAAAAAAG9A/BcgsNI72Vwg/s400/001garnett.jpg Ah yes, the famous pre-game scream. You need one of him beating his head against the stanchion to make a set. >:) Definitely have the devil, just lack the unholy glee that makes this one stand out amongst Garnett pictures. You see a lot more scowls of intensity than evil grins of intensity. I don't often regret having the most basic of cell phones, but does mean I can't just take a picture at a game. I'll see what sort of cells some friends who go to a lot of games have and if I can get them to snap it. Doesn't last long so might take a few tries to snare. Kim From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Dec 13 03:27:22 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:27:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T Message-ID: <389193.31625.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Just a quick thought in response to Kim's (great) post on our winning ways: Seeing Jerry Sloan celebrate 20 years in the league this week got me thinking about what a great job he has done despite no championships. He has built the Jazz into a contending team during the nineties and the noughties with different sets of players- great, great work. Coach Doc and the current executive of the year, Danny Ainge, will have a similar task on their hands over the next few years to try and re-build the Celtics when "The Big 3" retire. I reckon they should look at what the Jazz have done as a perfect model and, if they do, it wouldn't surprise me if Doc is still coaching the Celtics 15-20 years from now... Cheers! Adam --- Kim Malo wrote: OK, thinking about it last night as once again at a game I was surprised to find us up double digits (I don't tend to watch the score except at the end of close games or when there are obvious runs), I think I have at least part of the answer why despite the best record we still aren't getting the sort of love Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are from seemingly everyone outside of Boston. I don't really care, but I do wonder about it, since they aren't all idiots and I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. To begin with, we didn't start out as we did last season and as the Cavs have this season, blowing teams out by shocking amounts. And we don't have a one man Kobe and the Kobettes team where a single star's potential to take over the game shines so brightly as to put everything else out of focus. Don't get me wrong, we've plenty of star power and star power capable of taking over a game, but we're not defined by one uber-talent. Lead by Garnett, who'd rather set someone else up than shoot, we just win as a team with different people playing a key role each night. So there's not just one obvious thing you can point to, embrace, pucker up and say that's DOMINANCE. Other than winning, of course. I think the disconnect comes in where people perhaps assume we aren't visibly DOMINATING like that because we can't, where the point is that we're not trying to. Instead, rather than worrying about outscoring the other team, we're simply making sure they don't outscore us. Sounds like the same thing, but it's not. It's a difference in emphasis behind everything we do, based in valuing winning more than how you look getting there. That comes from maturity and security - last year we felt we had to prove a lot of things to people, including ourselves, individually and as a team. This year the only thing the Cs really feel the need to prove won't come until June. It's also based in the fact that prolific as our offense can be, we win with defense and know it. And defense, other than the odd block or steal, just is not flashy. It's not as obvious a form of dominance as dropping 40 points on someone. Even if you play 48 min of absolute lockdown defense, a surprising number will talk about the other team's "off shooting night" vs the reason for it. We don't need to do that anyway, we just need to make sure they don't score more than we do at the end. The irony is that our way is an even greater form of dominance because it's all about continually imposing your will. Some of those 40 points were simply easy, open shots. So we hit halftime more or less even. We probably could and should have been up at least a few possessions, but we were sloppier than we should have been at times on both ends of the court, and they're a good team with a great young leader. But then we're up a couple possessions and the lead doesn't swing back, then we're up 10 points and we're staying up those 10 points, maybe more, but not less. No obvious dramatic shift in momentum on the court, at least to the eye. At most you might note that we're just not making the sorts of mistakes we were earlier and doing a better job of making them pay when they do. But it's really just the better team exerting its will in gradually increasing dominance with enough constant pressure to keep the opponent down. Making it clear that while we weren't worried about turning that 10 point lead into 20 (usually when we've done that this season, the opponent has had a big role in it happening, and again, this is a good team), we also weren't going to let it get a worrisome amount under it. Steady 5-10 point leads aren't exciting or sexy or eye-catching... or apparently newsworthy and embraceable. They're just winning. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sat Dec 13 03:27:28 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:27:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Thorpe: The truth about Paul Pierce's game Message-ID: <851895.6322.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Pierce-081212 Pierce's transformation into tough guy By David Thorpe Scouts Inc. Updated: December 12, 2008 In last season's dramatic Game 7 between Cleveland and Boston in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Paul Pierce made a play that basically went unnoticed in the game's recap. It was lost in a sea of points (41 for Pierce, 45 for LeBron James) and appears in the official play-by-play as "NBA: Jump ball: James Posey vs. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Paul Pierce gains possession)." With one minute left in the game and Boston hanging on to a three-point lead, Pierce lined up next to James on the jump ball. There was an obvious spot between James and Sasha Pavlovic for the taller Ilgauskas to tip the ball. And everyone on the court knew it. It would come down to who wanted it more. Garnett occupied Pavlovic as the ball came right to the expected spot, a couple feet away from LeBron, who only had to make a few slides to gain possession. However, as soon as the ball was tossed up, Pierce cut James off and gained an advantage. The ball squirted away with both stars giving chase, and it was Pierce who had the presence of mind to dive on the ball and call a timeout. It was a gritty play, one that required toughness, anticipation and being totally in the moment. It was the kind of play that does not define a player, but makes one. For Pierce, from that moment forward he was the NBA's best player in the playoffs. This season, Pierce has picked up right where he left off. He scored 27 points against the Cavs in the Celtics' opener and helped limit LeBron to 22 points on 21 shots. He was the game's best player that night, attacking James from the start with a hard-charging dunk for his team's first points of the season. And following that up with a change-of-pace, baseline-dribble attack, banging LeBron down and then hitting him with a reverse. It was an old man's bucket, coming after a young man's dunk. It set the tone for who Pierce is going to be this season: Everyman. Points, boards, defense, intangibles. He no longer seems worried about style. Instead, he is locked in on the substance of his team's performance, yet is still comfortable being the man when the matchup calls for it. Against Toronto on Nov. 10, Pierce struggled in the first half, hitting just 2-of-10 shots, and Boston trailed by 15 in the third quarter. But then he took over, hitting 8 of his last 12 shots and finishing with 36 points. He scored 22 in the fourth quarter alone to keep the Celtics undefeated. Two nights later, in a matchup with then-undefeated Atlanta, emotions ran high thanks not only to the two teams' records but also because of their seven-game series in the first round of the playoffs the previous April. Again, Pierce played the role of MVP, scoring 34 points, playing great defense and hitting the game-winning jumper with half a second left in the game. And then on Dec. 1, in a battle with Orlando, Pierce broke open a two-point game at halftime with 17 third-quarter points en route to a team-high 24 and another Celtics win over a fellow East contender. What I like best about what Pierce did in those four games is this: He attempted 48 free throws on 68 shots. And for the season, he's at 7.8 attempts on just 13 shot attempts per game, only the third time in his career that he's had that high a ratio of free throws to field goals. As players advance in years on the downside of their careers, we expect them to shoot fewer free throws, not more. This speaks to the lesson he learned on that jump ball, that he can impose his will on a game without feeling hot with his shot; they are two separate entities. And that's what I'm seeing in games -- Pierce imposing his will, when needed, by attacking the rim and not just settling for his jumper. It appears he has trimmed down some from years past (always a great idea for a wing player over 30 years old), enabling him to still have some quickness and lift attacking the rim. He's as crafty as ever, changing speeds and driving angles to create opportunities for himself, and still has the moxie to use his body to gain leverage down under. To be sure, he has not been shooting and finishing as accurately this season as he has in past seasons. His player efficiency rating of 16.58 (career low) and his true shooting percentage of 55.7 percent (lowest since 2003-04) are evidence of that. He may still be adjusting to carrying less weight -- it takes time to learn how to absorb contact inside and still maintain his balance to finish. He's also not always locking in on his shot, especially in games where it's clear that Boston has an easy road to victory. With All-Star caliber teammates like Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and now Rajon Rondo, Pierce does not have to don his superhero cape nearly as often as he did years ago. He still can when the Celtics need him to, but he's also making things easier for his teammates, especially Allen and Rondo. When defended by smaller guys, PP likes to go right inside, instead of proving he can out-shake a smaller man with his perimeter game. That's the right attitude to have, to punish a team that sends a smaller guy to him. It's partly a veteran's understanding, taking advantage of something every chance he gets (as opposed to missing opportunities), but it's also the product of his new mindset. A player who has learned to impose his will on a game without relying purely on scoring must be a factor on defense. And Pierce is still totally bought in on this end. Watch him crowd a quicker player on the perimeter, knowing he'll get beat but forcing him to a weaker spot on the floor. Watch him hustle to close out a shooter, even risking fouling the jump shooter on occasion (which used to be a sin) to better contest the shooter. Watch him use his body to muscle up a post player trying to get a good position on the blocks. For the Celtics to play the kind of defense they do each night, messages must be sent. They can't expect to defend important positions on the floor just by using hustle and athleticism. Brute physicality needs to be part of the equation. And Pierce is willing to be part of that formula, too. Only Kendrick Perkins, who's long and strong, commits more fouls than Pierce. Pierce is fouling 2.8 times per game, more than he has in years. While Pierce still has worlds of talent, it's his toughness that jumps out at me now. And his desire to win, without a care as to how it happens. This from the player who experts thought was the most selfish player in the 2002 World Championship debacle. The same guy who was a part of the Celtics' devastating loss against Indiana in the 2005 playoffs. And the same guy whom I doubt anyone would think "tough guy" if asked to describe him. But that's who he is now. And as a result, the Celtics are simply out-toughing the league again this year, both mentally and physically. Sure, there are more glamorous small forwards in the league. There are scorers with great technique like Caron Butler and Carmelo Anthony. And there are newcomers like Danny Granger, Kevin Durant and Rudy Gay. But if I had to choose one small forward to help my team win a series, besides LeBron, I'd go with the guy who doesn't need to carry the team with his shooting talent alone, but who can impact it with his will and his toughness. And that's the Truth. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From kmalo17 at verizon.net Sat Dec 13 03:46:36 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:46:36 -0500 Subject: ESPN - Thorpe: The truth about Paul Pierce's game In-Reply-To: <851895.6322.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <851895.6322.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBT0038KCPPGWM1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Yeah, I thought that was a really good read myself and agree with most of it. I disagree that you couldn't call Pierce tough before, at least physically. But he's definitely mentally a lot more tough now, or at least more stable and secure which largely comes to the same thing. Definitely playing a lot smarter brand of hoop vs the old constant gotta prove myself mano a mano pissing contests. To his credit. The team may be seen as a reflection of Garnett, but Pierce is the one who could most easily have been the reason this whole thing didn't work. Kim At 06:27 AM 12/13/2008, Adam Patterson wrote: > >From: >http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Pierce-081212 >Pierce's transformation into tough guy >By David Thorpe >Scouts Inc. >Updated: December 12, 2008 >In last season's dramatic Game 7 between Cleveland and >Boston in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Paul Pierce made a play that >basically went unnoticed in the game's recap. It was lost in a sea of points >(41 for Pierce, 45 for LeBron James) and appears in the official play-by-play >as "NBA: Jump ball: James Posey vs. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Paul Pierce gains >possession)." >With one minute left in the game and Boston hanging on to a three-point >lead, Pierce lined up next to James on the jump ball. There was an >obvious spot >between James and Sasha Pavlovic for the taller Ilgauskas to tip the ball. And >everyone on the court knew it. It would come down to who wanted it more. >Garnett occupied Pavlovic as the ball came right to the >expected spot, a couple feet away from LeBron, who only had to make a few >slides to gain possession. However, as soon as the ball was tossed up, Pierce >cut James off and gained an advantage. The ball squirted away with both stars >giving chase, and it was Pierce who had the presence of mind to dive on the >ball and call a timeout. >It was a gritty play, one that required toughness, >anticipation and being totally in the moment. It was the kind of >play that does >not define a player, but makes one. For Pierce, from that moment >forward he was >the NBA's best player in the playoffs. >This season, Pierce has picked up right where he left off. >He scored 27 points against the Cavs in the Celtics' opener and helped limit >LeBron to 22 points on 21 shots. He was the game's best player that night, >attacking James from the start with a hard-charging dunk for his team's first >points of the season. And following that up with a change-of-pace, >baseline-dribble attack, banging LeBron down and then hitting him with a >reverse. It was an old man's bucket, coming after a young man's dunk. >It set the tone for who Pierce is going to be this season: >Everyman. Points, boards, defense, intangibles. He no longer seems worried >about style. Instead, he is locked in on the substance of his team's >performance, yet is still comfortable being the man when the matchup calls for >it. >Against Toronto on Nov. 10, Pierce struggled in the first >half, hitting just 2-of-10 shots, and Boston trailed by 15 in the third >quarter. But then he took over, hitting 8 of his last 12 shots and finishing >with 36 points. He scored 22 in the fourth quarter alone to keep the Celtics >undefeated. >Two nights later, in a matchup with then-undefeated Atlanta, >emotions ran high thanks not only to the two teams' records but also >because of >their seven-game series in the first round of the playoffs the previous April. >Again, Pierce played the role of MVP, scoring 34 points, playing great defense >and hitting the game-winning jumper with half a second left in the game. >And then on Dec. 1, in a battle with Orlando, Pierce broke >open a two-point game at halftime with 17 third-quarter points en route to a >team-high 24 and another Celtics win over a fellow East contender. >What I like best about what Pierce did in those four games >is this: He attempted 48 free throws on 68 shots. And for the season, he's at >7.8 attempts on just 13 shot attempts per game, only the third time in his >career that he's had that high a ratio of free throws to field goals. As >players advance in years on the downside of their careers, we expect them to >shoot fewer free throws, not more. This speaks to the lesson he >learned on that >jump ball, that he can impose his will on a game without feeling hot with his >shot; they are two separate entities. >And that's what I'm seeing in games -- Pierce imposing his >will, when needed, by attacking the rim and not just settling for his jumper. >It appears he has trimmed down some from years past (always a great idea for a >wing player over 30 years old), enabling him to still have some quickness and >lift attacking the rim. He's as crafty as ever, changing speeds and driving >angles to create opportunities for himself, and still has the moxie to use his >body to gain leverage down under. >To be sure, he has not been shooting and finishing as >accurately this season as he has in past seasons. His player efficiency rating >of 16.58 (career low) and his true shooting percentage of 55.7 percent (lowest >since 2003-04) are evidence of that. He may still be adjusting to >carrying less >weight -- it takes time to learn how to absorb contact inside and still >maintain his balance to finish. >He's also not always locking in on his shot, especially in >games where it's clear that Boston has an easy road to victory. With All-Star >caliber teammates like Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and now Rajon Rondo, Pierce >does not have to don his superhero cape nearly as often as he did >years ago. He >still can when the Celtics need him to, but he's also making things easier for >his teammates, especially Allen and Rondo. >When defended by smaller guys, PP likes to go right inside, >instead of proving he can out-shake a smaller man with his perimeter game. >That's the right attitude to have, to punish a team that sends a >smaller guy to >him. It's partly a veteran's understanding, taking advantage of >something every >chance he gets (as opposed to missing opportunities), but it's also >the product >of his new mindset. >A player who has learned to impose his will on a game >without relying purely on scoring must be a factor on defense. And Pierce is >still totally bought in on this end. Watch him crowd a quicker player on the >perimeter, knowing he'll get beat but forcing him to a weaker spot on the >floor. Watch him hustle to close out a shooter, even risking fouling the jump >shooter on occasion (which used to be a sin) to better contest the shooter. >Watch him use his body to muscle up a post player trying to get a >good position >on the blocks. >For the Celtics to play the kind of defense they do each >night, messages must be sent. They can't expect to defend important positions >on the floor just by using hustle and athleticism. Brute physicality needs to >be part of the equation. And Pierce is willing to be part of that >formula, too. >Only Kendrick Perkins, who's long and strong, commits more fouls than Pierce. >Pierce is fouling 2.8 times per game, more than he has in years. >While Pierce still has worlds of talent, it's his toughness >that jumps out at me now. And his desire to win, without a care as to how it >happens. This from the player who experts thought was the most selfish player >in the 2002 World Championship debacle. The same guy who was a part of the >Celtics' devastating loss against Indiana in the 2005 playoffs. And the same >guy whom I doubt anyone would think "tough guy" if asked to describe >him. But that's who he is now. And as a result, the Celtics are simply >out-toughing the league again this year, both mentally and physically. >Sure, there are more glamorous small forwards in the league. >There are scorers with great technique like Caron Butler and Carmelo Anthony. >And there are newcomers like Danny Granger, Kevin Durant and Rudy >Gay. But if I >had to choose one small forward to help my team win a series, besides LeBron, >I'd go with the guy who doesn't need to carry the team with his >shooting talent >alone, but who can impact it with his will and his toughness. >And that's the Truth. From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 06:38:25 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:38:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T In-Reply-To: <0KBT00E5GAPDWSU2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <11722.38958.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> now, that's an excellent post --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Kim Malo wrote: From: Kim Malo Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T To: "Cs eList" Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 5:03 AM OK, thinking about it last night as once again at a game I was surprised to find us up double digits (I don't tend to watch the score except at the end of close games or when there are obvious runs), I think I have at least part of the answer why despite the best record we still aren't getting the sort of love Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are from seemingly everyone outside of Boston. I don't really care, but I do wonder about it, since they aren't all idiots and I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. To begin with, we didn't start out as we did last season and as the Cavs have this season, blowing teams out by shocking amounts. And we don't have a one man Kobe and the Kobettes team where a single star's potential to take over the game shines so brightly as to put everything else out of focus. Don't get me wrong, we've plenty of star power and star power capable of taking over a game, but we're not defined by one uber-talent. Lead by Garnett, who'd rather set someone else up than shoot, we just win as a team with different people playing a key role each night. So there's not just one obvious thing you can point to, embrace, pucker up and say that's DOMINANCE. Other than winning, of course. I think the disconnect comes in where people perhaps assume we aren't visibly DOMINATING like that because we can't, where the point is that we're not trying to. Instead, rather than worrying about outscoring the other team, we're simply making sure they don't outscore us. Sounds like the same thing, but it's not. It's a difference in emphasis behind everything we do, based in valuing winning more than how you look getting there. That comes from maturity and security - last year we felt we had to prove a lot of things to people, including ourselves, individually and as a team. This year the only thing the Cs really feel the need to prove won't come until June. It's also based in the fact that prolific as our offense can be, we win with defense and know it. And defense, other than the odd block or steal, just is not flashy. It's not as obvious a form of dominance as dropping 40 points on someone. Even if you play 48 min of absolute lockdown defense, a surprising number will talk about the other team's "off shooting night" vs the reason for it. We don't need to do that anyway, we just need to make sure they don't score more than we do at the end. The irony is that our way is an even greater form of dominance because it's all about continually imposing your will. Some of those 40 points were simply easy, open shots. So we hit halftime more or less even. We probably could and should have been up at least a few possessions, but we were sloppier than we should have been at times on both ends of the court, and they're a good team with a great young leader. But then we're up a couple possessions and the lead doesn't swing back, then we're up 10 points and we're staying up those 10 points, maybe more, but not less. No obvious dramatic shift in momentum on the court, at least to the eye. At most you might note that we're just not making the sorts of mistakes we were earlier and doing a better job of making them pay when they do. But it's really just the better team exerting its will in gradually increasing dominance with enough constant pressure to keep the opponent down. Making it clear that while we weren't worried about turning that 10 point lead into 20 (usually when we've done that this season, the opponent has had a big role in it happening, and again, this is a good team), we also weren't going to let it get a worrisome amount under it. Steady 5-10 point leads aren't exciting or sexy or eye-catching... or apparently newsworthy and embraceable. They're just winning. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 09:54:07 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:54:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: ESPN - Thorpe: The truth about Paul Pierce's game In-Reply-To: <0KBT0038KCPPGWM1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <349727.7664.qm@web65610.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, other than the entire premise of the article being off-base, it was a pretty good read :) Not considering Paul 'tough' before last year is more a reflection of David Thorpe (and his ignorance of Paul's game) than any great change Paul made. He's made a definite mental toughness improvement--though it's probably just more accurate to say he's playing smarter basketball. Paul's always been a tough guy, coming back from the stabbing and not missing a second of training camp, playing with his front teeth knocked out (enduring 9 hours of dental surgery the next day), etc... he's always shown an ability to play with and through pain. Ryan --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: Re: ESPN - Thorpe: The truth about Paul Pierce's game > To: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 5:46 AM > Yeah, I thought that was a really good read myself and agree > with > most of it. I disagree that you couldn't call Pierce > tough before, at > least physically. But he's definitely mentally a lot > more tough now, > or at least more stable and secure which largely comes to > the same > thing. Definitely playing a lot smarter brand of hoop vs > the old > constant gotta prove myself mano a mano pissing contests. > To his > credit. The team may be seen as a reflection of Garnett, > but Pierce > is the one who could most easily have been the reason this > whole > thing didn't work. > Kim > > At 06:27 AM 12/13/2008, Adam Patterson wrote: > > > >From: > >http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Pierce-081212 > >Pierce's transformation into tough guy > >By David Thorpe > >Scouts Inc. > >Updated: December 12, 2008 > >In last season's dramatic Game 7 between Cleveland > and > >Boston in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Paul > Pierce made a play that > >basically went unnoticed in the game's recap. It > was lost in a sea of points > >(41 for Pierce, 45 for LeBron James) and appears in the > official play-by-play > >as "NBA: Jump ball: James Posey vs. Zydrunas > Ilgauskas (Paul Pierce gains > >possession)." > >With one minute left in the game and Boston hanging on > to a three-point > >lead, Pierce lined up next to James on the jump ball. > There was an > >obvious spot > >between James and Sasha Pavlovic for the taller > Ilgauskas to tip the ball. And > >everyone on the court knew it. It would come down to > who wanted it more. > >Garnett occupied Pavlovic as the ball came right to the > >expected spot, a couple feet away from LeBron, who only > had to make a few > >slides to gain possession. However, as soon as the ball > was tossed up, Pierce > >cut James off and gained an advantage. The ball > squirted away with both stars > >giving chase, and it was Pierce who had the presence of > mind to dive on the > >ball and call a timeout. > >It was a gritty play, one that required toughness, > >anticipation and being totally in the moment. It was > the kind of > >play that does > >not define a player, but makes one. For Pierce, from > that moment > >forward he was > >the NBA's best player in the playoffs. > >This season, Pierce has picked up right where he left > off. > >He scored 27 points against the Cavs in the > Celtics' opener and helped limit > >LeBron to 22 points on 21 shots. He was the game's > best player that night, > >attacking James from the start with a hard-charging > dunk for his team's first > >points of the season. And following that up with a > change-of-pace, > >baseline-dribble attack, banging LeBron down and then > hitting him with a > >reverse. It was an old man's bucket, coming after a > young man's dunk. > >It set the tone for who Pierce is going to be this > season: > >Everyman. Points, boards, defense, intangibles. He no > longer seems worried > >about style. Instead, he is locked in on the substance > of his team's > >performance, yet is still comfortable being the man > when the matchup calls for > >it. > >Against Toronto on Nov. 10, Pierce struggled in the > first > >half, hitting just 2-of-10 shots, and Boston trailed by > 15 in the third > >quarter. But then he took over, hitting 8 of his last > 12 shots and finishing > >with 36 points. He scored 22 in the fourth quarter > alone to keep the Celtics > >undefeated. > >Two nights later, in a matchup with then-undefeated > Atlanta, > >emotions ran high thanks not only to the two teams' > records but also > >because of > >their seven-game series in the first round of the > playoffs the previous April. > >Again, Pierce played the role of MVP, scoring 34 > points, playing great defense > >and hitting the game-winning jumper with half a second > left in the game. > >And then on Dec. 1, in a battle with Orlando, Pierce > broke > >open a two-point game at halftime with 17 third-quarter > points en route to a > >team-high 24 and another Celtics win over a fellow East > contender. > >What I like best about what Pierce did in those four > games > >is this: He attempted 48 free throws on 68 shots. And > for the season, he's at > >7.8 attempts on just 13 shot attempts per game, only > the third time in his > >career that he's had that high a ratio of free > throws to field goals. As > >players advance in years on the downside of their > careers, we expect them to > >shoot fewer free throws, not more. This speaks to the > lesson he > >learned on that > >jump ball, that he can impose his will on a game > without feeling hot with his > >shot; they are two separate entities. > >And that's what I'm seeing in games -- Pierce > imposing his > >will, when needed, by attacking the rim and not just > settling for his jumper. > >It appears he has trimmed down some from years past > (always a great idea for a > >wing player over 30 years old), enabling him to still > have some quickness and > >lift attacking the rim. He's as crafty as ever, > changing speeds and driving > >angles to create opportunities for himself, and still > has the moxie to use his > >body to gain leverage down under. > >To be sure, he has not been shooting and finishing as > >accurately this season as he has in past seasons. His > player efficiency rating > >of 16.58 (career low) and his true shooting percentage > of 55.7 percent (lowest > >since 2003-04) are evidence of that. He may still be > adjusting to > >carrying less > >weight -- it takes time to learn how to absorb contact > inside and still > >maintain his balance to finish. > >He's also not always locking in on his shot, > especially in > >games where it's clear that Boston has an easy road > to victory. With All-Star > >caliber teammates like Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and now > Rajon Rondo, Pierce > >does not have to don his superhero cape nearly as often > as he did > >years ago. He > >still can when the Celtics need him to, but he's > also making things easier for > >his teammates, especially Allen and Rondo. > >When defended by smaller guys, PP likes to go right > inside, > >instead of proving he can out-shake a smaller man with > his perimeter game. > >That's the right attitude to have, to punish a team > that sends a > >smaller guy to > >him. It's partly a veteran's understanding, > taking advantage of > >something every > >chance he gets (as opposed to missing opportunities), > but it's also > >the product > >of his new mindset. > >A player who has learned to impose his will on a game > >without relying purely on scoring must be a factor on > defense. And Pierce is > >still totally bought in on this end. Watch him crowd a > quicker player on the > >perimeter, knowing he'll get beat but forcing him > to a weaker spot on the > >floor. Watch him hustle to close out a shooter, even > risking fouling the jump > >shooter on occasion (which used to be a sin) to better > contest the shooter. > >Watch him use his body to muscle up a post player > trying to get a > >good position > >on the blocks. > >For the Celtics to play the kind of defense they do > each > >night, messages must be sent. They can't expect to > defend important positions > >on the floor just by using hustle and athleticism. > Brute physicality needs to > >be part of the equation. And Pierce is willing to be > part of that > >formula, too. > >Only Kendrick Perkins, who's long and strong, > commits more fouls than Pierce. > >Pierce is fouling 2.8 times per game, more than he has > in years. > >While Pierce still has worlds of talent, it's his > toughness > >that jumps out at me now. And his desire to win, > without a care as to how it > >happens. This from the player who experts thought was > the most selfish player > >in the 2002 World Championship debacle. The same guy > who was a part of the > >Celtics' devastating loss against Indiana in the > 2005 playoffs. And the same > >guy whom I doubt anyone would think "tough > guy" if asked to describe > >him. But that's who he is now. And as a result, the > Celtics are simply > >out-toughing the league again this year, both mentally > and physically. > >Sure, there are more glamorous small forwards in the > league. > >There are scorers with great technique like Caron > Butler and Carmelo Anthony. > >And there are newcomers like Danny Granger, Kevin > Durant and Rudy > >Gay. But if I > >had to choose one small forward to help my team win a > series, besides LeBron, > >I'd go with the guy who doesn't need to carry > the team with his > >shooting talent > >alone, but who can impact it with his will and his > toughness. > >And that's the Truth. > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 10:08:03 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:08:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: This and that In-Reply-To: <0KBT004UY0YHK2D1@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <166485.17086.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> -- On Sat, 12/13/08, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: This and that > To: "Cs eList" > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 1:32 AM > Nice to see Rondo loose, at least for one night vs NO, that > really annoying habit of letting the ball bounce forever > after an inbound before finally picking it up into a > dribble, after it finally cost him vs Washington. Gotta > admit that every time I've watched him do it I've > thought that if I was the opposing PG, particularly a > veteran with some respect for the game, I'd body slam > him while "going for the ball" when he does it, > and pay any fine with pleasure. Letting the ball bounce does have some value--it prevents the shot clock from starting, theoretically making the offensive possession more efficient, especially if Rondo rushes the ball up the court after he does finally start dribbling. Mr. Everything, Chris Paul, does the same thing. But you're right, I'm sure the miscues in Washington gave Rondo pause out there last night. But I wouldn't put all of those TOs against Washington on Rondo; KG was acting pretty casual with those inbounds passes. But speaking of Rondo, man, he had a very un-Rondo game. I was really hoping to see him have a good one against Paul; he played him well last season. But he just didn't have it last night. Luckily, Paul stepped out of the telephone booth again. Pierce seems happy to stand in the shadows when Rondo's playing well (who in turn gets Ray playing well), but still has the awareness to 'turn it on' when he senses that Rondo doesn't have it. I felt like before tonight Pierce has pretty much taken off the last 2 weeks. > > Nice love fest at the Garden for Posey, at least up until > BBD decided to show one of his mentors how well he sets a > pick these days : ) That play was awesome. The crazy part was, the crowd exploded when the pick happen, exploded in a way usually reserved for an and-1 basket or dunk. Shows the intelligence in the crowd that they know enough to go ga-ga for a great pick. > > Speaking of picks, some nice screens where Perk was > actually picking off two guys at once on a play they ran a > few times. Not that long ago you couldn't be sure of his > picking off one without drawing a foul (and yes, I know he > still occasionally draws them on picks, but it's no > longer the assumption). > > Nice to see that someone or something has finally gotten > through to Perk about his behavior vis the refs too. His > second foul was a simply horrible call and he just walked it > off, along with the others, so that at least if he was still > making faces when he wasn't vocalizing, it wasn't in > the ref's faces. I was trying to remember the last game > I was at where he didn't get a T. Couldn't have been > but it seemed like every game this year. Good catch, Kim. Perk definitely just turned around and headed for the bench, no facial acrobatics, no words, no nothing. It was nice to see. It was the 2nd quarter after all. I like emotion, and I usually don't care about giving the refs some shit if it was a bad call, but it makes more sense to only give them the shit on occasion, usually in the 2nd half. The refs are more likely to take it when it happens later in the game. Part of Perk's problem with the refs is that he gets 4th quarter mad in the 1st quarter. Ryan From BDodgers at aol.com Sat Dec 13 10:20:03 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:20:03 EST Subject: 76ers fire Cheeks, sources say Message-ID: 76ers fire Cheeks, sources say ESPN.com news services The _Philadelphia 76ers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=phi) fired coach Maurice Cheeks on Saturday, sources told ESPN's Stephen A. Smith. Assistant general manager Tony DiLeo will be the interim head coach for the remainder of the season, the sources said. Cheeks' deal with the 76ers, who started the season 9-14, was guaranteed through next season. After signing _Elton Brand_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=91) to a five-year deal worth nearly $80 million in the offseason, the Sixers have looked nothing like last season's up-tempo squad that advanced to the playoffs. The 76ers had lost eight of 10 games entering Saturday night's game against the _Washington Wizards_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=was) in Philadelphia. Cheeks, who as a player helped the Sixers earn three berths in the NBA Finals in 1980, '82 and '83, was in his fourth season as coach of the team after four years of coaching the _Portland Trail Blazers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=por) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Sat Dec 13 10:35:50 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:35:50 EST Subject: A writer relives his hoop dreams in the NBA's D-League Message-ID: A writer relives his hoop dreams in the NBA's D-League Story Highlights Our resident hack takes his shot by training with the D-League's Utah flash Learning the tricks of the trade and getting some ribbing along the way A start in exhibition game, a play drawn up for the author and a thrilling conclusion By Chris Mannix, SI.com My basketball career probably ended a lot like most: with my name on a cut sheet. I was a freshman at Boston College High (Dorchester, Mass.) and I remember well the overwhelming feeling of rejection that came from seeing my name on that list. I wasn't good enough? How could I not be good enough? I was a pretty good player in junior high. I went to all the basketball camps and played pickup games on blacktops until the sun went down. How could this possibly happen? But it did. That day isn't just the day I was cut from the team. It is forever burned in my memory as the day my dream of playing professional basketball died. Or so I thought. Here's the thing about being a sportswriter: The job can open up a lot of doors that otherwise would be bolted shut. Over the last two years I have gone one-on-one with a boxing world champion and felt my collarbone snap after tumbling off the back of a raging bull. For a little publicity, people are willing to give you the opportunity to do some interesting things. Enter the NBA Development League, David Stern's minor league circuit. The offer: a chance to train and play in an exhibition game with the Utah Flash, team's first of the season. The price: a story that reminds the world the 7-year-old league still exists. Opinions on the D-League vary. Some coaches and scouts consider it the most competitive basketball outside of an NBA arena. Others suggest that a half-day ride from anywhere on the Eurail will present you with the opportunity to see three or four better leagues. Still, it was professional basketball and I, a once-a-week corporate league player these days, wanted to see if I could hack it. Day 1 -- Orem, Utah: Greetings from Giddens Needless to say, I jumped at the opportunity the way only a 28-year old, 6-foot-1, 185-pound white man can. So I packed a bag and hopped a plane for Utah, ready to begin my professional career. It's a little before 10 a.m. when the first wave of panic hits me. The thing about this assignment is that talent-wise, I expect to be inferior. I can play with Joe the Plumber, Joe Six-Pack or any other Joe who shares my once-a-week hoop habit. But these are basketball lifers I am up against, highly skilled, highly trained athletes who probably have been eating, drinking and sleeping hoops since they were old enough to dribble. What I don't expect is the size difference. For some strange, inexplicable reason I had sketched images in my head of my teammates being somewhere in the 6-1, 185-pound neighborhood. Not exactly. What I see when I arrive at the Flash's practice facility is a collection of 6-5, 215 pound men who are carved out of granite. One of those men is J.R. Giddens, Boston's top pick in the 2008 NBA draft. NBA rules allow teams to assign up to two players with less than two years experience from their roster to their D-League affiliate. The champion, veteran-laden Celtics had no room for Giddens, so they shipped the former New Mexico star to Utah with an eye toward keeping him sharp until the parent club needed him. I had done my homework on Giddens. The people in Boston described him to me as "a little wacky, but a great guy." I had gotten the "great guy" part a day earlier when I stopped by the Flash's media day. With a tape recorder in front of him, Giddens is a polished pro. He talked about how happy he was to get the chance for some significant playing time. He praised the Celtics veterans for showing him the ropes in the few short weeks he was with the club. And he expressed confidence about his long-term future with the team. That was yesterday. Today, moments after I arrive at the Flash practice facility, I get the wacky. "You bring your A-Game?" asks Giddens as I put on my gear. "I brought whatever game I have," I reply. "Good," Giddens says. "Because if I get the chance, I'm going to dunk on you." "Then I might foul you," I shoot back. Giddens smiles. "You think that's going to matter?" As the rest of my teammates finish dressing, I pop my head into the coaches' room, where Brad Jones and his staff are gathering to prepare the morning's practice. In many ways, Jones is the perfect D-League coach. Every player in the D-League possesses grandiose dreams of one day sitting on an NBA bench (at least). Jones is no different. Middle-aged with sandy blonde hair and a cheery disposition, Jones transitioned to the Flash bench last year after spending the previous six as the Utah Jazz's advance scout. This season, Jones has assumed control of the player personnel, making him Orem's hoops el jefe. Jones divides practice into three segments. There is conditioning, which consists of a series of three-man weaves with a heavy ball; 3-on-2 drills run at breakneck speeds; and the "33-in-3" drill, in which the team splits off into three lines and in a full-court sprint attempts to make 33 layups in three minutes. "You think this is bad?" asks Jones. He points across the floor at Mike Hall, a former BYU standout in his first year in the D-League. "A couple of days ago Mike threw up twice and passed out on the floor. I thought he was dead." Skills work is next. Every player in the D-League is an athlete. Few have the hoops skills to match. "If they did," says Jones, "they probably wouldn't be here." The "55" is a drill in which a player shuffles from spot to spot hoisting jump shots while a teammate rebounds for 55 seconds. Today, my jump shot is on. Paired with Giddens, I smoothly knock down 11 of the 18 shots I put up. Finally, there is the playbook. As an NBA reporter, I have seen everything from Phil Jackson's triangle to the Princeton read-and-react offense. But seeing and actually doing are two different things. I can't run anything right. Every play, I screw up. I cut when I should space. I pick when I should roll. "You'll get it," says Jones. "It's just repetition." By the end of practice, I feel reasonably comfortable with the plays -- but only if they are run at half speed with no defenders hounding me. Day 2 -- Orem: Altitude Adjustment Dave Wohl has an interesting job. As the Celtics' assistant general manager, Wohl has a lot of say in the team's personnel decisions. But today -- and for the foreseeable future -- Wohl's No. 1 priority is to oversee the development of Giddens. Wohl meets regularly with Jones, who frequently seeks Wohl's opinion when it comes to the development of Boston's prospect. Today, however, Wohl's biggest assist goes to me. Midway through the conditioning drills, I'm gassed. Maybe it's the altitude -- Orem sits 4,000 feet above sea level -- or maybe it's the Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich I devoured late last night. Either way, I'm struggling to get through the drills. During a break in the action, Wohl offers a story about Chris Gatling, an 11-year NBA veteran whom Wohl coached when both were with the Orlando Magic. "Gatling was a master at avoiding practicing," said Wohl. "When we would do conditioning drills, he would start at the back of one line. When he started to get closer to the front, he would walk out of that line and go to the back of another one. There were some practices where I don't think he practiced at all." "Did he get away with it?" I ask. "No!" says Wohl. "He wasn't fooling anybody. Doc Rivers was coaching the team and he would stop him after practice and say 'Gat, you know you owe me a full practice, right?'" Still, with the processed chicken still floating in my stomach and my body about to revolt against me, I am willing to risk being discovered as a shirker. When the drill starts, I take my position at the back of one line. As it begins to inch forward, I slip out and go to the back of another. I repeat this several times until the whistle blows ending the drill. I'm not fooling anybody. "Chris has got to get in these drills!" shouts guard Dontrell Jefferson. Jones walks over to me. "You going to be an active non-participant today?" he asks. "Nope," I answer. "Just pulling a Gatling." I can't weasel my way out of every drill, however. Towards the end of practice, the team splits up into two lines for one-on-ones. I find myself matched up against Eddie Ard, a 6-5, 225-pound forward. Predictably, Ard overpowers me on his way to the basket and scores an easy layup. But that isn't the end of the play. As I jog back to the end of the line, Jones shouts at me from halfcourt. "No layups, Chris," he commands. "He gets that close, you foul the s--- out of him!" Day 3 -- Orem: 'You'll be wide open' Giddens is relentless. All week I have been his whipping boy. He has called me afraid. He has grabbed my chest and announced to the entire team that he can feel my heart pumping out of it. He even offered to bet me $100 that I wouldn't make my first shot (though he quickly recanted, citing NBA gambling rules). And that is before his running buddy arrives. This morning the team is informed that Bill Walker, Boston's second-round pick in the '08 draft, will be joining the Flash. A standout at Kansas State last season, Walker spent one season as Michael Beasley's sidekick before declaring for the NBA draft. A knee injury prevented him from working out for teams before the draft and he slipped all the way to the second round before Boston scooped him up with the 46th overall pick. At 6-7, Walker is a freakish athlete with a potentially dominating inside game. Further, he's already got a pro-quality mouth. Right before practice starts I approach Walker to introduce myself. He had known that I'd be here: my brother, Andy, is a ball boy with the Celtics and had given him a heads-up about my presence. Before I reach Walker, however, Giddens jumps in. "This is Chris," says Giddens. "He's the Sports Illustrated guy who's playing with us." Walker eyeballs me suspiciously. "You're going to be playing with us?" he asks in mock disbelief. We laugh and shake hands. Like Giddens, Walker was a victim of the Boston numbers crunch and is anxious to get some quality minutes. As I watch the assistant coaches run him through the team plays, a smile creeps across my face: He doesn't know the plays either. Late in practice, Walker actually strolls up to me on the sidelines and asks me a question about a particular set. More surprisingly, I know the answer. The grand finale to the last practice before the first exhibition game involves ... me. Jones has drawn up a special play for me that, in theory, is supposed to get me an open look at the basket. Jefferson is to bring the ball across half court. When he reaches the foul line, he's to use me as a screen and drive past me. The play is predicated upon the other team not respecting me. "They're going to want to chase DJ," says Jones. "You'll be wide open." When Jefferson draws the defense, he's supposed to kick the ball back to me at the foul line. There, I have the option of taking the shot ("If you're open, fire away," says Jones) or wait for a screen from center Brian Jackson. If I wait, I am supposed to peel off the pick and take the shot. As we run through the play, Giddens offers another option. "If you're still not open, then I'll set the screen," he says. Pointing to forward Carlos Wheeler, he adds. "And if you're not open then, 'Los will set one too." "And if I'm still not open?" I ask. "Well," he says, "then you've got problems." We run the play about 10 times. Five times I take the shot before waiting for the screen. I make three. Five times I wait for the screen and rub off it. I make four. I am ready. "Just try to relax out there," says Jones. "I'm watching you and you're all tensed up. I know you want it to be perfect, but you have to just go out and play." Easier said than done. Burley (Idaho) High -- 'I have to score' I should have brought my headphones. If I had, I could have spent the three-hour bus ride to Burley for the game against the Idaho Stampede with hip-hop beats and rock music filling my auditory canals. Instead, 10 minutes after we start moving, I have the Smothers Brothers riding me. "You scared, Chris?" chirps Giddens from a few rows behind me. "He's scared," chimes in Walker. "He's definitely scared." "It's OK to be scared," says Giddens. Funny guys. But they're right: I am a little scared. For me, this entire trip will be worthless if I can't score. The competition is bigger, faster, stronger and, well, better than I ever have have experienced -- but I have to score. I know that Jones can only afford to play me for a few minutes before I become too much of a liability, so my touches are probably going to be limited. I have to make them count. I roar off the bus when it pulls into the parking lot outside of Burley High. I am the first one in the locker room. The first one dressed. The first one out on the court to shoot around. "How you feeling?" Jones asks as I warmed up. "OK," I reply. Truth is, I am freaking out. My heart continues to pulse as players from both teams trickle out of the locker room. I see Idaho's Jermareo Davidson, a 6-11 center who spent last season with the Charlotte Bobcats. I chat briefly with the Stampede's Coby Karl, a former Laker whom I wrote about while he was still at Boise State. "Good luck out there," he says. "Thanks," I respond. "You know if I score on you, I'm telling everybody." With the clock at 60:00 and the fans starting to stream into the arena, the coaches run the team through some shooting drills. With each shot, my nerves begin to settle. By the time Jones waves us back into the locker room, I actually feel calm. That is, until Giddens and Walker start in on me again. "Big shot coming out there," says Giddens. "Big shot," adds Walker, nodding. No kidding. In the pre-game meeting, assistant coach Dale Osbourne goes over our defensive assignments. I draw Jamal Tatum, a 6-0 blur of a guard who Osbourne says "likes to go to the basket." Great, I think to myself. Like I can stop him. Back on the floor, I begin to notice the looks, the he-can't-really-be-a-player smirks that are painted on the faces of many of the spectators. I don't blame them. It isn't until the player introductions that I actually believe it myself. I am milling amongst the players when the PA announcer starts to call my name. At 6-1, from Boston College ... I freeze. ... and also doing a story for Sports Illustrated ... Still, barely a blink. ... Chris Mannix! Coming to my senses, I pause before waving meekly at the crowd. "Chris, you have to run out there," says Jones. Great, I say to myself. I can't even get the introductions right. The opening tip can't come soon enough. We lose it, and I hustle over to defend Tatum, who catches a pass from Karl on the wing. Tatum eyeballs me quickly, then, as if sensing all of my weaknesses, attacks the basket. I don't stand a chance. I slide my feet to keep up with him but he is already past me. Hearing Jones's voice in my head, I come across his body and hack down on his arm. The whistle blows as Tatum goes tumbling to the floor. As he clutches his wrist in pain, my teammates high-five me as if I had just completed a three-point play. "Good foul," says Jefferson. "No layups." Tatum makes both free throws, but I hardly notice. It's time to run the offense. I take my position just outside the free throw line and wait for Jefferson to make his move. He starts to rub off me but I realize at the last moment that he has left too much space between the two of us. As his man attempts to split the gap, I thrust my hip in to close it, bumping him off the play. I pause, half expecting to hear a whistle condemning my illegal screen. It doesn't come. Instinctively, I float into position. Jefferson looks for me but I don't realize that I have drifted out beyond the three-point line. Instead, he tosses the ball back to Jackson, who is standing a few feet in front of me. Quickly, Jackson spins and tosses the ball back to me. I'm well out of position, a good two feet beyond the three-point line. I fire a shot up anyway. Brick. At that point, I think it's over. An errant pass is the only thing that prevents Tatum from an easy layup and two possessions later he drains a three in my face. On each dead ball I cast a glance over at the sideline, waiting to see if Jones is sending someone in for me. Then it happens. An Idaho defensive foul gives us the ball out of bounds. Giddens inbounds to Jefferson, who fires a return pass to Giddens at the top of the key. Giddens jab-steps, then catches me out of the corner of his eye standing on the wing, just inside the three-point line. He hits me. Tatum, who had been cheating over on Giddens, rushes back to defend me. I take one dribble to free myself. I can feel Tatum closing. I stop and ball fake. I see Tatum bite on the fake and leap into the air. As he starts to come down I rise up for a shot. Swish. The bench erupts. I look over and see everyone on his feet. Ryan Diggs practically tumbles onto the floor. I pump my fist as my team celebrates. A few seconds later a foul stops play and I wave my arm at Jones to yank me. I pass Walker as I run towards the bench and take note of the incredulous smile painted across his face. Jones stops me at the scorer's table and points to the scoreboard. "Our first two points of the season," he says. "How about that." I slap hands with the entire team before taking my seat on the bench. The hard part of it is over; now it's time to be a teammate. I cheer for every rebound and berate the officials for every questionable call. I watch as Giddens and Walker, who are head and shoulders better than anyone else on the floor, combine for 32 points. The game is a blowout. And I couldn't be happier. Settling into my seat on the bus, I can feel the goofy grin still creasing my face. Once again, I know I am not good enough to play basketball. Only this time, I'm OK with it. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Sat Dec 13 12:47:46 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:47:46 EST Subject: Trade Winds Just Keep Blowing Message-ID: Trade Winds Just Keep Blowing (http://search.espn.go.com/marc-stein/) By Marc Stein ESPN.com Five trades have already been consummated this season. Nearly 90 players who signed free-agent contracts in the summer become eligible to be traded Monday. Twenty-seven teams are trying to catch up to the threesome from Boston, Cleveland and Los Angeles that has threatened to pull away from the masses ? and trying to sell tickets in a brutal economy. Anyone else get the feeling that the first six weeks of the season and the flurry of transactions so far were just a warm-up? We tapped into the front-office grapevine after Wednesday's double dose -- which delivered a three-way deal _in the morning_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3759656) and Jason Richardson's unexpected move to Phoenix _in the evening_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3760914) -- to pose that question and see how much talk is still percolating. The result: 10 fresh dribbles of trade chatter to pass along, as a follow-up to our recent look at _expiring contracts_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-081129-30) . ? It remains difficult to get a definitive read on Miami's plans with _Shawn Marion_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=510) . He is widely presumed to be available, with a contract expiring at season's end and modest numbers (12.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, .222 shooting from 3-point range and just 1.5 attempts from 3-point range per game) compared to what we've grown accustomed to seeing from The Matrix. Yet two team executives told ESPN.com this week that they see the Heat holding onto Marion beyond the Feb. 19 trading deadline as the more likely scenario. One reason is that some teams are bound to regard Marion's forthcoming free agency as a deterrent; trading for Marion now comes with the risk that you might be just renting the $17.8 million man for the rest of the season. That's dangerous if it costs a good asset or two to get him. Another reason is the oft-cited assumption that the Heat want to use the resultant salary-cap flexibility from letting Marion's contract expire on a 2009 free agent such as Utah's _Carlos Boozer_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) . The Heat might also fall into some unexpected sign-and-trade options in July if they keep the 30-year-old. ? I don't get the impression that Milwaukee's _Michael Redd_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=692) is being shopped. I do get the impression that the Bucks will happily listen to Redd proposals if the phone rings, with two years and more than $35 million left on our beloved lefty's contract after this season and with _Richard Jefferson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1006) arriving in Brewtown in June with a contract in the same ballpark. "I think they think they're the same team at this point with [Redd] or without him," one rival-team official said of the Bucks. ? I heard the first concrete rumblings this week that the Warriors are indeed prepared (yes, so soon) to part with their big free-agent signee, hard as it figures to be to move _Corey Maggette_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=497) in the first season of a five-year, $50 million contract. Maggette is one of the 90 guys who becomes eligible to be traded Monday. ? Sources say Charlotte remains highly confident that it can follow up the Richardson deal by finding a taker for versatile swingman _Gerald Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1026) , despite the prospect of three seasons at $9.5 million each left on Wallace's contract beyond this season. It's believed that teams interested in trying to pry _Raymond Felton_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) away from the Bobcats instead of Wallace -- Portland has been mentioned -- have to be willing to take back mothballed center _Nazr Mohammed_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=568) (owed a combined $13.4 million in 2009-10 and 2010-11) thanks to Felton's improvement since being moved to shooting guard alongside rookie point guard _D.J. Augustin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3415) . One source close to the situation said new Bobcats coach Larry Brown had already been grinding on vets such as Richardson and Wallace, which has apparently exacerbated Brown's famed penchant for wanting to make changes. ? The sense I get is that the Suns would prefer to let things settle now after acquiring Richardson, but they're also not discouraging calls from other teams. Sources say the difference now is that they're no longer actively chasing a trade as they were when team president _Steve Kerr_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=425) decided his team needed "to shake things up" and pushed hard for J-Rich. ? More than one team we spoke to suggested that the rampaging Cavs, widely expected to move Wally Szczerbiak's $13.8 million expiring contract before the February deadline to make their team even stronger, could well decide to stand pat, with team chemistry in such a good place after the offseason acquisition of _Mo Williams_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2178) , and with Szczerbiak and _Ben Wallace_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885) looking far more comfortable now than they did last season after their in-season moves to Cleveland. "They're starting to believe they can win it all the way they are," said one Western Conference exec. ? Sources say guards _Larry Hughes_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=356) and _Thabo Sefolosha_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3028) and forward _Tyrus Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) are the Bulls who are very much available. But the Bulls aren't ready to part with second-year center _Joakim Noah_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224) , one insider insists, even though Noah appears to have frustrated first-year Bulls coach _Vinny Del Negro_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=197) as much as Thomas has. ? Perhaps you'll recall this tip from one team exec in the season's _first Weekend Dime_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-081101-02) : "Keep your eyes on the Millers. They will be traded if their teams start slowly." The Millers in question: Sacramento's _Brad Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=556) and Minnesota's _Mike Miller_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) . The Wolves just made a coaching change, so Mike Miller's name hasn't surfaced yet, but Brad is generating some trade buzz ? depending on who you talk to. Some teams have been rebuffed in their attempt to open Miller talks with the Kings, who are assumed to be interested in a combo of cap relief and at least one promising young forward in exchange for a veteran big man whose contract ($11.4 million this season, $12.3 million next season) expires before the free-agent bonanza of 2010. Other teams believe Sacramento is more than willing to move the 32-year-old. We will continue to investigate. ? Continue to disregard any suggestion you hear that the Mavericks might soon relent and elect to buy out veteran swingman _Jerry Stackhouse_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=802) , even though he hasn't played since Nov. 14. With his contract only partially guaranteed for $2 million next season, Stackhouse essentially carries an expiring salary of $7 million, and thus remains Dallas' No. 1 trade chip. The Mavs, then, won't consider buying him out until they have exhausted every opportunity to trade him ? and maybe not even then. Recent Stack-for-_Earl Watson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1027) discussions with Oklahoma City didn't get far, with the Thunder said to be unmoved by the idea, but Dallas is no longer as desperate for a backup for _Jason Kidd_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=429) as it once seemed, with the emergence of J.J. Barea. Dallas' interest in a Stack-for-_Malik Rose_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=739) swap with New York, meanwhile, appears to be marginal. ? The Nuggets want another big man, thrilled as they are by the healthy starts we've seen from _Kenyon Martin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=515) and _Nene_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1713) . We're told that could lead to the reluctant surrender of _Linas Kleiza_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2770) if moving guard _Chucky Atkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=26) -- who remains highly available and badly wants to go -- can't bring back the requisite size. Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033) . Eastern Conference A word of caution for those of you in the audience prepared to proclaim that the East has finally undone nearly a decade of regular-season inferiority to the West: Don't. Not yet. The East might have the two hottest teams going, but the early dominance we've seen from Boston and Cleveland can't change the reality that the East A) has only one other team at the minute (Orlando) worthy of top-10 status in our _weekly Power Rankings_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2009&week=6) , and B) sported a 61-48 record in head-to-head matchups with West teams entering Friday's play, which isn't as impressive as it sounds. Not when a big chunk of that success has come against the six West teams that we not-so-jokingly say have already been eliminated from postseason contention: Memphis, Golden State, Sacramento, Los Angeles (Clippers), Minnesota and Oklahoma City. The East entered the weekend 36-6 against those six teams ? compared to 25-42 against the West's top nine. No wonder we read the following quote this week from Professor Hollinger: "The irony is that while the West is weaker, in strict head-to-head terms, it's still stronger in the sense we traditionally evaluate things -- being able to make the playoffs, win a round or make the Finals. So it all depends on how you look at things. Top to bottom, the East is definitely stronger. But in terms of winning in May and June, the West is still the more difficult [conference]." ____________________________________ I absolutely hate myself for printing this, because doing so forces me to take a swipe at my favorite team (those unforgettable Buffalo Braves) and my first favorite basketball player (Randy Smith) ever. But facts is facts, as we've been known to say around here. Scoring Big, Losing Bigger 15,000 Points, Lowest Win Percentage Name Points Record Win % 1. Shareef Abdur-Rahim 15,028 (275-555) .331 2. Reggie Theus 19,015 (407-619) .397 3. Randy Smith 16,262 (406-570) .416 4. Walt Bellamy 20,941 (440-603) .422 5. Stephon Marbury 16,209 (360-463) .437 So ? We are obligated to pass along this info that came across our desk at a time when teams out there are deciding whether they should gamble on signing _Stephon Marbury_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=509) ? assuming that Marbury's divorce from the Knicks still happens at some point this season. Adding Marbury even at a minimum cost, in case you're wondering, would mean signing the guy with the fifth-lowest winning percentage of the 109 players in league history to score at least 15,000 points in the NBA (see table, above right). And here's another interesting tidbit from the Elias Sports Bureau (table, right), just to prove that we do see the merits of point differential as a predictor of future success just to prove that we do see the merits of tracking point differential ? no matter how much we complain about the e-mails we receive which won't acknowledge anything other than point differential as the best way to rate teams: Winning Difference Point Leaders, Fast Starts Team Point Diff. Start 1969-70 New York Knicks +304 19-1 1993-94 Seattle Sonics +288 18-2 2007-08 Boston Celtics +278 18-2 1963-64 Boston Celtics +270 18-2 1996-97 Chicago Bulls +268 17-3 Only five teams in NBA history had a larger positive point differential through the first 20 games of the season than the 2008-09 Cleveland Cavaliers, who outscored the opposition by 266 points in their 17-3 start. Better yet for the Cavs: Four of those five teams went on to win the championship. Only the 1993-94 Seattle SuperSonics, who crashed to an infamous first-round loss to Denver, couldn't build on that 20-game platform of dominance to win it all. ____________________________________ The following disclosure appears in this section because it doesn't take much guesswork to surmise that the league office was moved to issue a reminder to all 30 teams about the NBA's anti-tampering regulations mainly because of three East-based superstars whose 2010 free agency is already generating near-daily coverage: Cleveland's _LeBron James_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) , Toronto's _Chris Bosh_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) and Miami's _Dwyane Wade_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1987) . The two most interesting passages of the recently issued memo: 1. "If a member of your organization is asked by the media about a potential free agent prior to the July 1 following the last season covered by the player's contract, or about any other person under contract with another NBA team, the only proper response is to decline comment." 2. "Penalties for tampering include suspension of the offending person, prohibition of the offending team from hiring the person being tampered with, forfeiture of draft picks, and individual and/or team fines of up to $5 million." **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From BDodgers at aol.com Sat Dec 13 12:52:10 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:52:10 EST Subject: Ninety players soon eligible to join trade discussions Message-ID: Ninety players soon eligible to join trade discussions By Chris Sheridan ESPN.com Only one-fourth of the NBA season has elapsed, yet there already have been five significant trades. But while all that activity has been taking place, nearly 25 percent of the NBA player population has been sitting on the sideline, so to speak, knowing they have not yet had to keep the proverbial extra bag packed. Well, that extra sense of security for those 90 NBA players is about to become a thing of the past. Beginning Monday, Dec. 15, nearly every player who signed as a free agent in the offseason -- from the big names such as _Baron Davis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=194) and _Elton Brand_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=91) down to the Louis Amundsens and Anthony Robersons of the world -- becomes trade eligible under NBA rules. It could be called Buyer's Remorse Day, because it's the first day a frustrated owner or GM can turn that unwanted merchandise that looked so appealing over the summer into a trade-in. Will Dec. 15 unleash a torrent of trades? Normally, it doesn't. "That's always a hard one, because generally, even if a player isn't fitting in, that doesn't mean a team will be ready to move him Dec. 15 or the next day. Most teams usually need more than six weeks to make a decision on a player," _Detroit Pistons_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) president _Joe Dumars_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3689) told ESPN.com. The only players who remain trade-ineligible are those for whom 90 days have not yet passed since they signed their 2008-09 contracts. There are 21 of them, and among them are Washington's _Juan Dixon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1707) (Dec. 23), Boston's _Sam Cassell_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=138) (Dec. 29), Minnesota's _Kevin Ollie_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=620) (Jan. 1) and Chicago's _Lindsey Hunter_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=359) (Feb. 13). With every team that made a major free-agent signing last summer currently struggling -- making unheralded _Roger Mason_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1721) perhaps the impact free agent of '08 -- players such as Brand, _Corey Maggette_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=497) and Davis might actually be available as of Monday. With that thought in mind, let's take a look at the situations of the top five players who become trade-eligible Monday.1. Baron Davis, Clippers In the Madison Square Garden press room last week, I was talking with the two young whizzes from the Portland Trail Blazers' front office, _Kevin Pritchard_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2710) and Tom Penn, about the likelihood of them trading Raef LaFrentz' expiring contract before the Feb. 19 deadline. I raised the possibility of going after Davis if the Clippers remained in the tank, and they considered the notion for all of five seconds before determining that a player who needs the ball in his hands as much as Davis probably wouldn't be a good fit for them, as most of Portland's offense -- especially in the fourth quarter -- runs through _Brandon Roy_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3027) . The pertinent point for the moment is that the idea of Davis being moved by the Clippers isn't so farfetched, given their NBA-worst record (4-17) and "disconnect" that Davis described in November between himself and coach Mike Dunleavy. Clippers insiders say the relationship has improved, but positive results on the court have certainly not followed.2. _Monta Ellis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2751) , Warriors First things first: The notion of trading Ellis "has not" been discussed in any way, shape or form, according to Ellis' agent, Jeff Fried. And that probably stands to reason, given that no team in its right mind would take on a $66 million, six-year obligation to a fellow who tore up his ankle in a moped accident. Ellis, still weeks away from returning, has filed a grievance against the Warriors for suspending him 30 games while also claiming they retain the right to terminate Ellis, since riding a moped put Ellis in violation of his contract. Fried's argument is that the Warriors can either terminate or suspend Ellis, but cannot keep the termination option open. Ellis told reporters Thursday he feels "no pain, nowhere" and considers himself "slightly" ahead of schedule for a presumed January return. Then we get to see if he can be the replacement at the point for Baron Davis that the Warriors envisioned he would be.3. Corey Maggette, Warriors Quick quiz: Has Maggette accumulated more assists per week or games missed due to a strained hamstring? He has four assists per week during the season's first seven weeks -- that's 28 total -- while he missed his seventh game Friday night. Given the recent acquisition of _Jamal Crawford_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=165) , who like teammate _Stephen Jackson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=378) has been known to, er, make a few shots available for himself each night, one would imagine there are not going to be enough shots to go around once Maggette, Ellis, Jackson and Crawford are all healthy and playing together. But even if that becomes the case, the Warriors want to see how the lineup works before they give up on it, so don't hold your breath on Maggette going anywhere anytime soon. Team president Robert Rowell, who has supplanted _Chris Mullin_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=582) as the chief power broker in the front office, was the driving force behind the Maggette free-agent signing last summer after Golden State lost Davis to the Clippers.4. Elton Brand, 76ers The real question isn't whether the 76ers will trade Elton Brand but whether they'll fire coach Maurice Cheeks if he doesn't improve the transition into the Brand era. The big, new slow guy has taken the 76ers away from the speed-and-athleticism game that worked for them last year, and the dropoff among several Sixers has been pronounced -- Andre Iguodala's scoring has plunged from 19.9 to 14.8, and Samuel Dalembert's from 10.5 to 5.8. "I haven't heard one rumor that he's going to be traded," agent David Falk told ESPN.com. "He is the cornerstone of the franchise, and they are merely going through an adjustment period. Over the next 4-5 years he should be the anchor of a playoff-contending team."5. _Gilbert Arenas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=974) , Wizards First, there's the question of whether anyone would touch him, given how he underwent knee surgery before playing a single minute under his new six-year, $111 million contract. Second, Abe Pollin loves him, which would be a significant mitigating factor in the unlikely event that Wizards exec Ernie Grunfeld comes to him with a deal for Arenas that he thinks the owner should at least consider. While Arenas probably doesn't yet belong on a list concerning trade possibilities, if we're talking about major free agents who have teams wondering just what they paid for, he's on the list. Other notable Dec. 15 trade-eligible players: _Tony Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2367) , Celtics; _Emeka Okafor_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2399) , Bobcats; _Luol Deng_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) , Bulls; _Daniel Gibson_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3006) , Cavaliers; _Delonte West_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2422) , Cavaliers; J.J. Barea, Mavericks; _Antoine Wright_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2801) , Mavericks; _J.R. Smith_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2444) , Nuggets; _Kwame Brown_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981) , Pistons; _Ronny Turiaf_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2789) , Warriors; _Ricky Davis_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=193) , Clippers; _Sasha Vujacic_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2421) , Lakers; _Tyronn Lue_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=489) , Bucks; _Ryan Gomes_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2757) , Timberwolves; Craig Smith, Timberwolves; _Sebastian Telfair_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2417) , Timberwolves; _Keyon Dooling_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=209) , Nets; _Jarvis Hayes_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1980) , Nets; _Devin Brown_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1858) , Hornets; _James Posey_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) , Hornets; _Chris Duhon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2377) , Knicks; _Mickael Pietrus_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2173) , Magic; _Andre Iguodala_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2386) , 76ers; Louis Williams, 76ers; _Matt Barnes_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1765) , Suns; _Beno Udrih_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2448) , Kings; Roger Mason, _Kurt Thomas_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=846) ; Spurs; _Jose Calderon_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2806) , Raptors. Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. To e-mail Chris, _click here_ (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=9634) . **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From ellie at oreilly.com Sun Dec 14 06:19:35 2008 From: ellie at oreilly.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:19:35 -0500 Subject: draft talk etc. Message-ID: <494515F7.50608@oreilly.com> NBA content - I LOVE THIS TEAM! Though I still wish James Posey had re-signed w/us to make a dynasty run. What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for the champ. run? One thing that saved our butt last year was PJs short/midrange shooting. I don't think Mutumbo has that... next, skip if you are not a draftnik... I'm looking for a shooting guard - someone to eventually replace Ray Allen. House is the only 3-pt threat on our bench. Giddens and Bill Walker are more 3s than 2s. We only have one pick in June - the last one. Take a read on this kid I found in draftexpress.com - someone to keep an eye on in the ncaa tourney: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jack-McClinton-5304/ce As for stray shooting guards, I also like Ben Gordon. - Ellie From jlyell at verizon.net Sun Dec 14 07:26:15 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:26:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: draft talk etc. Message-ID: <186368.25651.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stephen Curry would be nice, but we would have to move up to get him I think Mutombo has been toast for a few years ________________________________ From: Ellie Cutler To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:19:35 AM Subject: draft talk etc. NBA content - I LOVE THIS TEAM!? Though I still wish James Posey had re-signed w/us to make a dynasty run. What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for the champ. run?? One thing that saved our butt last year was PJs short/midrange shooting. I don't think Mutumbo has that... next, skip if you are not a draftnik... I'm looking for a shooting guard - someone to eventually replace Ray Allen.? House is the only 3-pt threat on our bench. Giddens and Bill Walker are more 3s than 2s. We only have one pick in June - the last one. Take a read on this kid I found in draftexpress.com - someone to keep an eye on in the ncaa tourney: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jack-McClinton-5304/ce As for stray shooting guards, I also like Ben Gordon. - Ellie _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From Eric at ericalbert.net Sun Dec 14 07:42:40 2008 From: Eric at ericalbert.net (Eric Albert) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:42:40 -0500 Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T In-Reply-To: <0KBT00E5GAPDWSU2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0KBT00E5GAPDWSU2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081214104152.113d7d28@wheresmymailserver.com> Just a fabulous post -- one of the all-time greats. Thanks, Kim. -- Eric >Kim Malo wrote: > >OK, thinking about it last night as once again at a game I was surprised to find us up double digits (I don't tend to watch the score except at the end of close games or when there are obvious runs), I think I have at least part of the answer why despite the best record we still aren't getting the sort of love Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are from seemingly everyone outside of Boston. I don't really care, but I do wonder about it, since they aren't all idiots and I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. > >To begin with, we didn't start out as we did last season and as the Cavs have this season, blowing teams out by shocking amounts. And we don't have a one man Kobe and the Kobettes team where a single star's potential to take over the game shines so brightly as to put everything else out of focus. Don't get me wrong, we've plenty of star power and star power capable of taking over a game, but we're not defined by one uber-talent. Lead by Garnett, who'd rather set someone else up than shoot, we just win as a team with different people playing a key role each night. So there's not just one obvious thing you can point to, embrace, pucker up and say that's DOMINANCE. > >Other than winning, of course. I think the disconnect comes in where people perhaps assume we aren't visibly DOMINATING like that because we can't, where the point is that we're not trying to. Instead, rather than worrying about outscoring the other team, we're simply making sure they don't outscore us. > >Sounds like the same thing, but it's not. It's a difference in emphasis behind everything we do, based in valuing winning more than how you look getting there. That comes from maturity and security - last year we felt we had to prove a lot of things to people, including ourselves, individually and as a team. This year the only thing the Cs really feel the need to prove won't come until June. > >It's also based in the fact that prolific as our offense can be, we win with defense and know it. And defense, other than the odd block or steal, just is not flashy. It's not as obvious a form of dominance as dropping 40 points on someone. Even if you play 48 min of absolute lockdown defense, a surprising number will talk about the other team's "off shooting night" vs the reason for it. We don't need to do that anyway, we just need to make sure they don't score more than we do at the end. > >The irony is that our way is an even greater form of dominance because it's all about continually imposing your will. Some of those 40 points were simply easy, open shots. > >So we hit halftime more or less even. We probably could and should have been up at least a few possessions, but we were sloppier than we should have been at times on both ends of the court, and they're a good team with a great young leader. But then we're up a couple possessions and the lead doesn't swing back, then we're up 10 points and we're staying up those 10 points, maybe more, but not less. No obvious dramatic shift in momentum on the court, at least to the eye. At most you might note that we're just not making the sorts of mistakes we were earlier and doing a better job of making them pay when they do. But it's really just the better team exerting its will in gradually increasing dominance with enough constant pressure to keep the opponent down. Making it clear that while we weren't worried about turning that 10 point lead into 20 (usually when we've done that this season, the opponent has had a big role in it happening, and again, this is a good team), we also weren't going to let it get a worrisome amount under it. > >Steady 5-10 point leads aren't exciting or sexy or eye-catching... or apparently newsworthy and embraceable. They're just winning. > >_______________________________________________ >The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 09:47:26 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:47:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: draft talk etc. In-Reply-To: <494515F7.50608@oreilly.com> Message-ID: <104803.19102.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Ellie Cutler wrote: > From: Ellie Cutler > Subject: draft talk etc. > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:19 AM > > What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for > the champ. run? One thing that saved our butt last year was > PJs short/midrange shooting. I don't think Mutumbo has > that... > If he's in shape and ready to make the sacrifice, he'd be a fine addition. He can still block shots, gather rebounds, and throw pointy elbows, so I'm sure we could find a role for him. The question is: who goes if Mt. Mutumbo comes? I'm guessing POB. Ryan From martind42 at cox.net Sun Dec 14 11:54:46 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:54:46 -0500 Subject: draft talk etc. In-Reply-To: <494515F7.50608@oreilly.com> Message-ID: <20081214145446.VCOOA.28365.imail@eastrmwml43> I thought we didn't have a 1st round pick. ---- Ellie Cutler wrote: > NBA content - I LOVE THIS TEAM! Though I still wish James Posey had > re-signed w/us to make a dynasty run. > > What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for the champ. run? > One thing that saved our butt last year was PJs short/midrange shooting. > I don't think Mutumbo has that... > > next, skip if you are not a draftnik... > > I'm looking for a shooting guard - someone to eventually replace Ray > Allen. House is the only 3-pt threat on our bench. Giddens and Bill > Walker are more 3s than 2s. > > We only have one pick in June - the last one. > > Take a read on this kid I found in draftexpress.com - someone to keep an > eye on in the ncaa tourney: > http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jack-McClinton-5304/ce > > As for stray shooting guards, I also like Ben Gordon. > > - Ellie > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Sun Dec 14 13:32:10 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:32:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: draft talk etc. Message-ID: <107124.37026.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> You're right, there's no first-round draft pick for us next year. ...but Ben Gordon sure would fit in well on this team, next year and beyond. As for Mutombo, he'll definitely be playing for someone this season according to the Boston Globe: From: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/12/14/no_need_to_jazz_up_his_record/?page=full "You'll see me in the next two weeks," Mutombo said. "I will be somewhere. I really need to go back to playing. I've just got to make sure that I go to a place where I can be happy. There are about four to five teams that I've been looking at and about seven teams that have shown interest. It's up to me to make my decision." ... "The way Boston is playing right now with [Kevin Garnett], Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen, the team is heading in a direction toward winning another championship," Mutombo said. "It will be interesting if I made the decision to go there. It would be very good. I've been to the Finals twice [with Philadelphia and New Jersey]. I got close, but I walked away empty-handed. Maybe going to Boston would give me a chance to win. --- martind42 at cox.net wrote I thought we didn't have a 1st round pick. ---- Ellie Cutler wrote: > NBA content - I LOVE THIS TEAM! Though I still wish James Posey had > re-signed w/us to make a dynasty run. > > What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for the champ. run? > One thing that saved our butt last year was PJs short/midrange shooting. > I don't think Mutumbo has that... > > next, skip if you are not a draftnik... > > I'm looking for a shooting guard - someone to eventually replace Ray > Allen. House is the only 3-pt threat on our bench. Giddens and Bill > Walker are more 3s than 2s. > > We only have one pick in June - the last one. > > Take a read on this kid I found in draftexpress.com - someone to keep an > eye on in the ncaa tourney: >http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jack-McClinton-5304/ce > > As for stray shooting guards, I also like Ben Gordon. > > - Ellie > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List >celtics at igtc.com >http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From bosox18 at charter.net Sun Dec 14 17:26:54 2008 From: bosox18 at charter.net (Steve Ouellette) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:26:54 -0500 Subject: draft talk etc. In-Reply-To: <104803.19102.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <494515F7.50608@oreilly.com> <104803.19102.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DDC759634214806995B72F87A53130E@StevePC> I would think it would be unofficial assistant coach Sam Cassell. Steve O -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 12:47 PM To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Subject: Re: draft talk etc. --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Ellie Cutler wrote: > From: Ellie Cutler > Subject: draft talk etc. > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:19 AM > > What are people's thoughts about Mutumbo joining us for > the champ. run? One thing that saved our butt last year was > PJs short/midrange shooting. I don't think Mutumbo has > that... > If he's in shape and ready to make the sacrifice, he'd be a fine addition. He can still block shots, gather rebounds, and throw pointy elbows, so I'm sure we could find a role for him. The question is: who goes if Mt. Mutumbo comes? I'm guessing POB. Ryan _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ellie at oreilly.com Mon Dec 15 09:05:36 2008 From: ellie at oreilly.com (Ellie Cutler) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:05:36 -0500 Subject: Chirs Paul signature move Message-ID: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> kim said: >But speaking of Rondo, man, he had a very un-Rondo game. >I was really hoping to see him have a good one against Paul; he played him well last season. >But he just didn't have it last night. Anybody else notice Chris Paul routinely sticking out his butt to draw contact with whoever is behind him, then getting the foul call? His butt is big enough that it is fairly subtle. The refs either 1)don't see it 2)give him star treatment. Maybe it's going to be his signature move, like Karl Malone's knee to the groin of his defender. I saw it twice I can think of, once on Rondo and once on one of our frontcourt players. -Ellie From roger.belanger at ips.invensys.com Mon Dec 15 09:28:36 2008 From: roger.belanger at ips.invensys.com (Belanger, Roger) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:28:36 -0500 Subject: Chirs Paul signature move In-Reply-To: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> References: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> Message-ID: <84FC1C99D3D44C42A75A37D281311D370384EAE0@USFOXSRVXCH232.ipscorp.invensys.com> I saw the same thing and I believe it was directly responsible for Rondo's early foul trouble if memory serves me right. If that move is allowed to continue that would be horrible. Akin to the Reggie Miller kick out "cheating" move. Every time CP made that move he should have been whistled for an offensive foul. Ref's did tend to ignore it a few times as the game wore on so that was good. roger -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ellie Cutler Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:06 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: Chirs Paul signature move kim said: >But speaking of Rondo, man, he had a very un-Rondo game. >I was really hoping to see him have a good one against Paul; he played him well last season. >But he just didn't have it last night. Anybody else notice Chris Paul routinely sticking out his butt to draw contact with whoever is behind him, then getting the foul call? His butt is big enough that it is fairly subtle. The refs either 1)don't see it 2)give him star treatment. Maybe it's going to be his signature move, like Karl Malone's knee to the groin of his defender. I saw it twice I can think of, once on Rondo and once on one of our frontcourt players. -Ellie _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics * Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any associated files are intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on +44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk at invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 09:42:09 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:42:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Chirs Paul signature move In-Reply-To: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> Message-ID: <367772.65672.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Good spot, Ellie. The first one was pretty cheap, but Rondo definitely ran into him. The 2nd one was crap. Chris Paul basically kicked Perk in the shin as he was going up for the layup, was otherwise untouched, and got the foul from I think Joey Crawford, who was standing about 3 feet from the play and basically blew his whistle because he ANTICIPATED contact, not because there was any real contact. And for those who are careful reading, that was the foul Kim and I praised Perk for showing no emotion about. He knew it was crap and just left the court; no faces, no words. Ryan --- On Mon, 12/15/08, Ellie Cutler wrote: > From: Ellie Cutler > Subject: Chirs Paul signature move > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 11:05 AM > kim said: > > But speaking of Rondo, man, he had a very un-Rondo > game. I was really hoping to see him have a good one > against Paul; he played him well last season. But he just > didn't have it last night. > > Anybody else notice Chris Paul routinely sticking out his > butt to draw contact with whoever is behind him, then > getting the foul call? His butt is big enough that it is > fairly subtle. The refs either 1)don't see it 2)give > him star treatment. Maybe it's going to be his signature > move, > like Karl Malone's knee to the groin of his defender. I > saw it twice I can think of, once on Rondo and once on one > of our frontcourt players. > > -Ellie From BDodgers at aol.com Mon Dec 15 11:07:44 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:07:44 EST Subject: Sources: Kings fire Theus Message-ID: Sources: Kings fire Theus By Marc Stein ESPN.com Reggie Theus has been fired as coach of the _Sacramento Kings_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sac) , according to NBA coaching sources. Assistant coach Kenny Natt will be elevated to interim coach, sources said. Theus is the sixth NBA coach to be fired before Christmas this season, joining Philadelphia's Maurice Cheeks, Minnesota's Randy Wittman, Toronto's Sam Mitchell, Washington's Eddie Jordan and Oklahoma City's P.J. Carlesimo. Sources said that one of Theus' assistants, Chuck Person, was also dismissed with the Kings mired at 6-18, although star guard Kevin Martin has been limited to nine games because of injuries. The Kings exceeded most external expectations in 2007-08 with a 39-43 record in Theus' first season as an NBA head coach following a successful stint coaching New Mexico State. But Theus' relationship with management has been strained for months. An upset of the Los Angeles Lakers last Tuesday night without Martin appeared to ease the pressure on Theus, but the calm didn't last when the Kings were never competitive in a 24-point home loss to the Knicks. The Kings are the second team to make a coaching change immediately after losing to New York. Washington dismissed Jordan on Nov. 24 after a loss at Madison Square Garden. Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From pdelevett at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 12:44:45 2008 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:44:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Mutombo? Message-ID: <108459.69379.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> No chatter on the Mutombo-to-Boston rumors? The guy's literally twice Bill Walker's age, but last season he racked up 5 boards and 1.2 blocks in a mere 15 mpg. (All the while shooting some nice percentages from the floor and stripe.) Very comparable to PJ's numbers. Would Danny waive Pruitt or POB? Or try to swing a trade? From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Dec 15 13:20:39 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:20:39 -0500 Subject: Chirs Paul signature move In-Reply-To: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> References: <49468E60.3000209@oreilly.com> Message-ID: <0KBX0062VSMHF910@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> At 12:05 PM 12/15/2008, Ellie Cutler wrote: >kim said: >>But speaking of Rondo, man, he had a very un-Rondo game. >>I was really hoping to see him have a good one against Paul; he >>played him well last season. >>But he just didn't have it last night. Actually that wasn't me. >Anybody else notice Chris Paul routinely sticking out his butt to >draw contact with whoever is behind him, then getting the foul >call? His butt is big enough that it is fairly subtle. The refs >either 1)don't see it 2)give him star treatment. Maybe it's going >to be his signature move, >like Karl Malone's knee to the groin of his defender. I saw it twice >I can think of, once on Rondo and once on one of our frontcourt players. Didn't notice it myself and in fairness, considering some of our own oscar nominees, couldn't complain too much of it if I did. While Rondo's shifty enough to avoid getting caught by it. Interesting catch though, I'll definitely be watching for it. Kim From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Mon Dec 15 14:11:08 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:11:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Stephon Marbury On Celtics' Radar Message-ID: <73646.88122.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://www.weei.com/Stephon-Marbury-On-Celtics--Radar/3490375 Stephon Marbury On Celtics' Radar By Jeff Goodman WEEI.com (Archive) Posted: Sunday, 14 December 2008 7:57AM Stephon Marbury On Celtics' Radar The Boston Celtics are one of a handful of teams, according to sources close to the situation, who have expressed interest in embattled Stephon Marbury if the embattled point guard is bought out by the New York Knicks. Marbury, who was told by the Knicks earlier this month to stay away from the team until a resolution is arranged, has also fielded interest from Miami, Dallas and the Los Angeles Lakers, according to league sources. Most of the teams are offering the minimum salary for the rest of the season, according to one source. The Celtics could offer the remainder of the mid-level exception, which is approximately $2 million, but that?s highly unlikely since the addition would wind up costing Boston $4 million since they are over the luxury tax. Marbury, 31, could be bought out of his $22 million deal by the Knicks ? where he has spent the last five years after being traded in 2004. There?s little chance that Marbury plays another game in a Knicks uniform. Celtics boss Danny Ainge, according to the source, is legitimately interested in bringing Marbury on board because of his ability to handle pressure defenses ? an area where backup Eddie House has struggled. Marbury was an All-Star in 2001 and 2003 while with the New Jersey Nets and averaged 13.9 points and 4.7 assists in 24 games last season in New York. However, he has clashed with former coaches Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas since arriving in New York and hasn?t played a game for new coach Mike D?Antoni after losing the starting point guard job to Chris Duhon prior to the start of the season. Ainge believes the locker room is strong enough ? with veterans Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen ? to handle the addition of the enigmatic Marbury. The Celtics have won 14 straight games and are off to the best start in franchise history at 22-2, but Ainge is someone who rarely sits pat if he feels as though there?s an opportunity to improve the team. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Mon Dec 15 14:11:12 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:11:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere Message-ID: <558332.87289.qm@web63801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/14/griz-should-give-walker-chance-to-play-elsewhere/ Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere By Ronald Tillery(Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal Sunday, December 14, 2008 The time bomb that was supposed to be Antoine Walker hasn't exploded. Keep holding your breath. He won't. At 32 years old and with several checkered spots on his 13-year resume, Walkerisn't exactly meeting infamous expectations. So the Grizzlies should stop wasting everyone's time and give Walker his freedom. A contract buyout should come about soon, especially in the wake of the Griz signing 27-year-old forward Darius Miles to a non-guaranteed deal over the weekend. Walker's absence would give the Griz another roster spot to develop a player or sign another young veteran (a Miles or Quinton Rosstype) they actually care about. The case for Walker? He's been humbled. There's no more shimmy in his shake. He's been nothing but a good teammate and someone that's routinely dialed into the coaching. If Walker has been on his best behavior just to compel the Griz to release him, well, so be it. But all I've discerned from numerous conversations with Walker is that he simply wants to play. He wants to contribute somewhere and end a respectable playing career on his terms. Why hold a capable and passionate player prisoner when the team has no use for him? Why not let Walker shop for a home when there are no real ramifications for the Griz? Memphis will still enjoy the benefit of Walker's $9.32 million salary coming off their books following this season. No team is going to claim Walker in the two days it takes to clear waivers. Heck, the Griz only acquired Walker because his contract is set to expire. The math here is as simple as the Javaris Crittenton equation: Griz minus Walker equals a win-win for everybody. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From jlyell at verizon.net Mon Dec 15 16:57:16 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:57:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere Message-ID: <741789.9099.qm@web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Antoine for Scal? ________________________________ From: Adam Patterson To: Celtics Mailing List Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:11:12 PM Subject: Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere From: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/14/griz-should-give-walker-chance-to-play-elsewhere/ Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere By Ronald Tillery(Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal Sunday, December 14, 2008 The time bomb that was supposed to be Antoine Walker hasn't exploded. Keep holding your breath. He won't. At 32 years old and with several checkered spots on his 13-year resume, Walkerisn't exactly meeting infamous expectations. So the Grizzlies should stop wasting everyone's time and give Walker his freedom. A contract buyout should come about soon, especially in the wake of the Griz signing 27-year-old forward Darius Miles to a non-guaranteed deal over the weekend. Walker's absence would give the Griz another roster spot to develop a player or sign another young veteran (a Miles or Quinton Rosstype) they actually care about. The case for Walker? He's been humbled. There's no more shimmy in his shake. He's been nothing but a good teammate and someone that's routinely dialed into the coaching. If Walker has been on his best behavior just to compel the Griz to release him, well, so be it. But all I've discerned from numerous conversations with Walker is that he simply wants to play. He wants to contribute somewhere and end a respectable playing career on his terms. Why hold a capable and passionate player prisoner when the team has no use for him? Why not let Walker shop for a home when there are no real ramifications for the Griz? Memphis will still enjoy the benefit of Walker's $9.32 million salary coming off their books following this season. No team is going to claim Walker in the two days it takes to clear waivers. Heck, the Griz only acquired Walker because his contract is set to expire. The math here is as simple as the Javaris Crittenton equation: Griz minus Walker equals a win-win for everybody. ? ? ? Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jwhite128 at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 17:32:04 2008 From: jwhite128 at gmail.com (Jeff White) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:32:04 -0500 Subject: Paul Millsap Message-ID: <1923cbc90812151732g6d524c0yd56622e85d230d9a@mail.gmail.com> Gene, take a bow. You've been talking up Millsap since his days at La. Tech, right? He's been a beast tonite. From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 17:41:16 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:41:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: always wondered Message-ID: <727654.64952.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have never heard but always wondered if Paul Millsap was on Danny's radar back when.? As I remember, Millsap went one pick ahead of Powe.? He was the only 3 time rebound leader in college ball, and were he a full 6' 9" instead of about 6' 7 l/2 he would be quite a monster.? Nice to see him having a good career as a backup? (editor's note: he's a fellow La. Tech alum).? This has been a tough little run against some good Western teams; if we follow through with a W tonight, we are doing well.? All eyes on the 25th.? Cheers, Gene From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 20:26:03 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:26:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Paul Millsap Message-ID: <84301.291.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> thanks; I've been impressed with how Millsap plays quietly, within himself.? 32 points must be his high.? But Utah suffers, as always, because they lack a true center.? With Okur, Millsap, and the injured guy, they have 3 varied power forwards, but lack the balance of a stackpole shot blocker/rebounder in the paint.? So, they play extremely disciplined ball, but would be so much better with, say, Perkins.? Too bad for them; same problem as with K. Malone for about 20 years.? Thus, no ring. Hoping Paul's knee is not a serious problem.? We could be without him for a while, perhaps even through the West coast trip beginning next week.? Nice to see big contributions from Rondo, Perk, and even Pruitt tonight.? I guess House had some kind of injury.? Cheers, Gene From jahillsr at comcast.net Mon Dec 15 21:54:42 2008 From: jahillsr at comcast.net (Jim Hill) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:54:42 -0500 Subject: Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere Message-ID: <000001c95f42$cabb69d0$60323d70$@net> I believe that the Griz need to waive Walker, not trade him. That way the Griz benefit from the salary deduction from the ending contract and the team signing Walker get to sign him at a pro-rated vet minimum cost. A trade would require adding the full salary to the signing teams payroll. > To: Celtics Mailing List > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:11:12 PM Subject: Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere From: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/14/griz-should-give-walker-cha nce-to-play-elsewhere/ Griz should give Antoine Walker a chance to play elsewhere By Ronald Tillery(Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal Sunday, December 14, 2008 The time bomb that was supposed to be Antoine Walker hasn't exploded. Keep holding your breath. He won't. At 32 years old and with several checkered spots on his 13-year resume, Walkerisn't exactly meeting infamous expectations. So the Grizzlies should stop wasting everyone's time and give Walker his freedom. A contract buyout should come about soon, especially in the wake of the Griz signing 27-year-old forward Darius Miles to a non-guaranteed deal over the weekend. Walker's absence would give the Griz another roster spot to develop a player or sign another young veteran (a Miles or Quinton Rosstype) they actually care about. The case for Walker? He's been humbled. There's no more shimmy in his shake. He's been nothing but a good teammate and someone that's routinely dialed into the coaching. If Walker has been on his best behavior just to compel the Griz to release him, well, so be it. But all I've discerned from numerous conversations with Walker is that he simply wants to play. He wants to contribute somewhere and end a respectable playing career on his terms. Why hold a capable and passionate player prisoner when the team has no use for him? Why not let Walker shop for a home when there are no real ramifications for the Griz? Memphis will still enjoy the benefit of Walker's $9.32 million salary coming off their books following this season. No team is going to claim Walker in the two days it takes to clear waivers. Heck, the Griz only acquired Walker because his contract is set to expire. The math here is as simple as the Javaris Crittenton equation: Griz minus Walker equals a win-win for everybody. From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 21:57:44 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:57:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Paul Millsap In-Reply-To: <84301.291.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <912151.73379.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 12/15/08, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > Hoping Paul's knee is not a serious problem.? We could > be without him for a while, perhaps even through the West > coast trip beginning next week.? Nice to see big > contributions from Rondo, Perk, and even Pruitt tonight.? I > guess House had some kind of injury.? Cheers, Gene Paul appeared in the postgame press conference and said his knee was fine. Ed Lacerte checked him out and prescribed ice. Paul thought they wouldn't even run any tests tomorrow, while Doc wasn't so sure. Nobody seemed that worried about it, thank god. My guess, Paul probably sits against Atlanta for precautionary reasons, but it looks like we dodged a huge bullet (keeping fingers crossed). House had a death in the family and that's why he didn't play. Pruitt looked good in limited minutes. Had 5 points in the 4th, one big 3, a nice steal against D Williams, and overall pretty good defense. Ryan From kmalo17 at verizon.net Mon Dec 15 22:11:00 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:11:00 -0500 Subject: Paul Millsap In-Reply-To: <84301.291.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <84301.291.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBY00G8CH6DQVM0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> At 11:26 PM 12/15/2008, gene kirkpatrick wrote: >thanks; I've been impressed with how Millsap plays quietly, within >himself. 32 points must be his high. And a nice overall game. Those clearly weren't couldn't do it again if his life depended upon it 32 points. I'll second the kudos to you for picking up on him. >But Utah suffers, as always, because they lack a true center. With >Okur, Millsap, and the injured guy, they have 3 varied power >forwards, but lack the balance of a stackpole shot blocker/rebounder >in the paint. So, they play extremely disciplined ball, but would >be so much better with, say, Perkins. I still get a grin at how much opinions of Perk have changed over a couple of years >Too bad for them; same problem as with K. Malone for about 20 >years. Thus, no ring. Well the refs did their best to help them along. Sigh, I don't often harp on the refs because a) it's futile, b) if you're good enough, you work around them like any other impediment, and c) if they're really bad, they're usually bad to both teams when viewed through not entirely green colored glasses. Especially if they get caught in the mug's game of so-called make up calls. But while our own sloppiness against a quality team was the real reason for the tighter than it should have been score, the refereeing was still pretty horrible. Most egregious probably the call on Rondo when he got knocked down then landed on top of, with a close second the offensive foul that wasn't. Glen Davis got called at one end for a far too blatant wild elbow swing. Totally legit, with all blame to BBD, who should always expect to get called on that. Problem was an almost equally blatant one for Utah (can't recall who - was it Millsap?) got called the other way. With AK-47 traveling practically every time he got the ball (you're not only allowed to dribble, you're required to, honest), a number of blatantly wrong calls on charges / blocking fouls adding to the borderline ones you get every game, out of bounds they got wrong, etc. Just a bad, bad job,. >Hoping Paul's knee is not a serious problem. He limped pretty badly when he first got up, but was limping notably less just by the time he went into the tunnel. Some of that could be just the sort of cushioning you can get from shock that keeps you from feeling the full pain for a short time after an injury, but hopefully it was the good sign it looked instead. And without trying to get gross I couldn't hear him screaming or anything, and you often can with the bad ones, nor was he writhing all over vs more of a basic fetal response. But then again, Paul is physically tough, so that doesn't necessarily say much either. I didn't catch it while it happened, but the guy next to me said it looked like just a mild twist. Hopefully he's right. >We could be without him for a while, perhaps even through the West >coast trip beginning next week. Nice to see big contributions from >Rondo, Perk, and even Pruitt tonight. I guess House had some kind >of injury. Cheers, Gene House was called away to a family emergency of some sort per the news before I left for the game, haven't heard an update. And yeah, the offense is still noticeably more rocky with him in there and takes too long to get going, but I thought Pruitt showed he'd made real strides too. Kim From jaims at pldtdsl.net Mon Dec 15 22:50:16 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:50:16 +0800 Subject: Paul Millsap In-Reply-To: <912151.73379.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <84301.291.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <912151.73379.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c95f4a$8e16b040$aa4410c0$@net> i thought pruitt made 2 threes? yeah, he's looking good and confident slowly but surely. -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Ryan W Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:58 PM To: celtics at igtc.com Subject: re: Paul Millsap --- On Mon, 12/15/08, gene kirkpatrick wrote: > Hoping Paul's knee is not a serious problem.? We could > be without him for a while, perhaps even through the West > coast trip beginning next week.? Nice to see big > contributions from Rondo, Perk, and even Pruitt tonight.? I > guess House had some kind of injury.? Cheers, Gene Paul appeared in the postgame press conference and said his knee was fine. Ed Lacerte checked him out and prescribed ice. Paul thought they wouldn't even run any tests tomorrow, while Doc wasn't so sure. Nobody seemed that worried about it, thank god. My guess, Paul probably sits against Atlanta for precautionary reasons, but it looks like we dodged a huge bullet (keeping fingers crossed). House had a death in the family and that's why he didn't play. Pruitt looked good in limited minutes. Had 5 points in the 4th, one big 3, a nice steal against D Williams, and overall pretty good defense. Ryan _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdbauer at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 06:32:45 2008 From: pdbauer at yahoo.com (Paul Bauer) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:32:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <727654.64952.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski ? The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 07:33:26 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:33:26 -0500 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <727654.64952.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBZ00IGT77R5W20@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> At 09:32 AM 12/16/2008, Paul Bauer wrote: > >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski > >The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, >around the league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are >no takers. Giddens is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA >Developmental League. Not real high on the credibility meter (Adrian, not you Paul). A team would have to be under the cap now to make that deal, even if they wanted to, and the only one who is is Memphis. http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm While as always, the ones most likely to be under would have high draft picks and Giddens hasn't shown he's worth giving up a potential high pick for. Which is not the same as his being a bust, since he wasn't a high draft pick himself. Do I believe JR can be had? Yeah. Have they been disappointed in his development to date? Yup, at least from earlier reports. Although the open question is how much, as in is it now / still give up on this guy now disappointed. That I'm less sure of. I will buy that they've been shopping him because there's still that whole roster spot issue if they want to sign someone who can help them this season for a playoff run, with Giddens one of the obvious candidates for player we can live without if it wasn't for his having a 2 year guaranteed contract. Kim, firm believer in sometimes where there's smoke there's fire but lots of times there's just someone rubbing two sticks together From BDodgers at aol.com Tue Dec 16 08:03:04 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:03:04 EST Subject: Rondo Proves C's More Than Just Big Three Message-ID: Rondo Proves C's More Than Just Big Three (http://search.espn.go.com/john-hollinger/) By John Hollinger ESPN.com BOSTON -- The Big Three? Might want to make it the Fantastic Four. As the Celtics scuffled past Utah 100-91 for their 15th straight win, it was unquestionably _Rajon Rondo_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026) that was the difference -- for good and bad. He spent the first and fourth quarters winning the game for the Celtics and much of the middle two stanzas giving it to Utah. At times it seemed he would get the league's first ever quintuple-double -- in points, rebounds, assists, turnovers and missed lay-ups. In the end, he finished with 25 points, nine boards, eight assists, six turnovers and three steals, while the Celtics tied a league record for the best 25-game start at 23-2. With four more victories, they'll set a new record for the most wins with only two losses to start a season. And these are related points: Boston's great start is a direct result of Rondo's ascension to stardom, providing another major contributors at both ends and taking some of the strain off _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) , _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) and _Paul Pierce_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) . In fact it was Rondo, not any of the Big Three, who was Boston's go-to guy down the stretch tonight. With the Celtics clinging to a four-point lead with 3:22 left, the Celtics turned to side pick-and-roll plays for Rondo, and he created points four times in five trips -- zooming in to the basket for two lay-ups, drawing a foul on another drive, and setting up two free throw by _Kendrick Perkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2018) on another. The clincher came on a spinning reverse lay-up with 43.6 seconds left with so much English that it left Celtics coach _Doc Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) comparing him to Minnesota Fats. "[Paul Pierce] told me never to play that man in horse and I had to learn the hard way," said teammate Kevin Garnett. "He's real good at using the backboard, really good with the English." This is the good Rondo -- the Rondo who dominated Game 6 of the Finals against the Lakers last year, and the one who will be instrumental in Boston's effort to repeat. Alas, he has a dark side. All the good requires living with the bad, especially since the 22-year old Rondo is still earning the ropes. We saw it in Saturday's 94-82 win over New Orleans, when a strangely passive Rondo sat most of the fourth quarter while _Eddie House_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=348) played, and we saw it tonight during a plague of turnovers that wasted a 12-point first-quarter lead. His six miscues and multiple misses from short-range were the Hyde to his Jekyll -- on occasion he's as capable of beating the Celtics as he is of beating their opponents. It's no surprise, then, that in Boston's two losses, Rondo has been the most ineffective Celtic. He had two points on 1-of-4 shooting in a 95-79 loss to Indiana, and two points on 1-of-8 shooting in a 94-85 loss to Denver. It bears noting that he had a total of just one turnover in those two games -- he's one of the rare players who seems to be a lot better when he's taking chances and, sometimes, screwing up. Fortunately for Boston, the good has massively outweighed the bad on most nights. On the season, his PER ranks second on the Celtics and is pushing Kevin Garnett's for the top spot; and even with tonight's mistakes, he was good enough to prompt Pierce to endorse him for the All-Star team. Perhaps that explains why the Celtics seem perfectly happy with the trade-off ... just as long as he's attacking. "Against New Orleans," said Rivers, "he walked the ball up the floor, he played at a medium pace, and that allowed them to stop him. Tonight, we just told him, 'Every single time we get a rebound, we want you at full speed up the floor,' and he did that. And I thought his speed, especially early and then in the third quarter, was the difference." "Rondo puts pressure on you defensively with his ability to push the ball up the floor," said Jazz coach Jerry Sloan. "They caught us a lot of times napping and he would push it and get an easy basket." The attacking mentality applies off the ball as well. Rivers was pleased that when Utah doubled off of Rondo -- a common tactic for Boston opponents -- he made hard cuts toward the basket instead of hanging out on the weak side. Often that resulted in pass from Pierce or Garnett to Rondo near the basket, who would then find a teammate for a score or a foul. About the only negative for Boston was a knee injury suffered by Pierce with 31 seconds left. The Celtics forward went down when Utah's _Mehmet Okur_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1014) crashed into him under the basket, and he stayed on the floor for several seconds during a timeout. Eventually he limped off with the help of two teammates -- no, we didn't see any wheelchairs -- and afterward he said he could put weight on it and felt he'd play on Wednesday in Atlanta. In fact, he felt good enough to take pictures in the locker room with Olympian Michael Phelps (who was there with Jared from Subway) after the game. Rivers also said trainer Eddie Lacerte told him he thought Pierce would be OK, but that they would do more tests on Tuesday. He'll be needed for Boston to continue its streak. The Celtics are on a three-game losing streak in Atlanta's Philips Arena -- where they lost Games 3, 4 and 6 in the first round of the 2008 playoffs -- while a Christmas date with the Lakers looms just nine days out. Two nights before that, hosting the 76ers, the Celts might have the opportunity to be the first NBA team to start 27-2. But they'll need Rondo too to win those games -- the aggressive, attacking Rondo. And if that player shows up every night, it will be time to retire the Big Three moniker in Beantown. John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 08:46:30 2008 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:46:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marbury, Walker, Mutumbo, Welcome Aboard, You're Badly Needed Message-ID: <651537.85458.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> - Mutumbo, even calcified and ossified, up there in years, would be a great addition tothe Celtics, a much better backup center -- size, rebounding, shot-blocking and defense -- than either Davis or POB. So, hopefully Ainge will add him. Seems like a beneficial match up for both the Celtics and Deke's one last shot at gaining a ring. - Walker, out of shape and bloated a bit, still more productive than Scalabrine will ever be. I endorse bringing him back, shaping him up, and unleashing the wiggle once again. The Antichrist has found religion, but it won't be with the Celtics, as the Globe noted today, the Celtics while seeking another forward, aren't interested in Toine. - Marbury Marbury Marbury keep him away from starting with the Lakers, Danny Boy. They don't need another talent infusion.? He will be a godsend to the Celtics horrific bench. Stephon, very badly needed, provides a ballhandler, scorer, shooter, and dependable performer. As to how the Celtics should accommodate one or all of the above. Very simple, one or more of the following moves could be implemented: Cassell retires and becomes a coach. T. Allen and Powe are sent to Golden State for Brandan Wright. POB is released. A 2-or-3-for-1 deal with Memphis for Hakim Warrick or Darko Milicic. There's a myriad number of possibilities... Ray ? Memphis has/will have a few? ? ? ? From gregodegaard at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 09:30:59 2008 From: gregodegaard at yahoo.com (Greg Odegaard) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:30:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning Message-ID: <192744.45847.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Are we all so drunk with apparent success or am I just in the twilight zone, because I don't see any messages yet discussing Pierce's apparent injury at the end of the game? ? I am on digest, but there was a digest from an hour ago and nothing that I can see about this. ? My wife used to read these messages along with me of course, and she would often comment on our debating issues at length, while other issues would appear to go unnoticed. ? So for someone not living in Boston, but did have to watch my oldest almost crying at the end of the game in nearly pure garbage time, and for those anxiously waiting the arrival in town 2 weeks from today of the World Champion Boston Celtics, what is the news or chatter on the radio? Please folks we and/or I need to know. ? By the way, 2 of the 5 tix I got are 4 rows behind the Celtics bench for the 12/30 Blazer game. What chances would there be that my son and I can get KG's attention and have him respond or more? My son is freaking beside himself over the idea of even having KG giving him a nod and believe me my kid is loud and proud and will be a Celtic honk jerk that night no matter the outcome or climate. I assume after the game in Boston and the trashing that took place during the game and the pathetic comments made by the young Blazer players after the game and the full dressing down those players got in the Portland media, it will and could be a world class bball war and we couldn't be more excited. ? People, I have had near tussles with folks here in Portland and maybe 7 years ago a cousin of my wife said to me in the car afterward, I don't know you and I won't be going to another game with you ever again and he was dead serious. I become an animal as I can be watching the games at home. So for any other Celtics fans either in Portland or planning to travel in, and the tix by the way on Ebay are dropping in value like a rock, let me know and we can party like it was June 17 all over again. My son wants to meet KG or get his attention but his Celtics Championship outfit should probably get him on the big screen, plus it doesn't hurt that he is 6-5, shaves his head and it a maniac about stuff like this. I couldn't be prouder, about this and oh year he is a HS senior and plans to be doctor thank you very much. ? Thanks and any news on Pierce would be nice. Greg From jaims at pldtdsl.net Tue Dec 16 10:09:19 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:09:19 +0800 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <727654.64952.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c95fa9$6a7ba690$3f72f3b0$@net> why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm and potential. just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) -----Original Message----- From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bauer Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM To: celtics Subject: JR >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski ? The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jwhite128 at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 10:48:55 2008 From: jwhite128 at gmail.com (Jeff White) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:48:55 -0500 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <000001c95fa9$6a7ba690$3f72f3b0$@net> References: <727654.64952.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <139003.7620.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000001c95fa9$6a7ba690$3f72f3b0$@net> Message-ID: <1923cbc90812161048t63ebf4b7mc1daac9ec20b2d17@mail.gmail.com> Obviously you missed Thomas' performance when the C's beat the Bulls earlier this season:) On 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: > > why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? > tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm > and potential. > > just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf > Of Paul Bauer > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM > To: celtics > Subject: JR > > >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski > > The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the > league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens > is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > From stevebknight at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 10:51:46 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:51:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: rondo References: Message-ID: <846135.1405.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> the jazz game was the worst best rondo game i've seen. he dominated when we needed it most, but otherwise had somewhat of an off night. still almost ended up with a triple double. the dude is clearly in the top 5 pgs in the game today, and climbing as we speak. i'd have to think long and hard about giving him up for anyone but chris paul at this point. for this team, he's nearly perfect. one thing "experts" say about rondo is that he's a great finisher. i actually think that's one of his weaknesses. he's much better than he was last year, but still not as polished as tony parker, for example. in any case, when he starts mastering the teardrop and finishing with both hands, we're going to be unstoppable. as it is, he's pushed himself into legitimate fantastic four talk already. fun to see him and perk grow up before our eyes. compare perk to the beginning of last year in finishing around the basket--not even close, plus he's improving every day. anyone else notice that big baby is playing very, very solid ball lately? i think he's taken over powe's spot as first big off the bench. numbers don't really tell the story, but he's been playing very heady and getting lots of key rebounds. Message: 12 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:03:04 EST From: BDodgers at aol.com Subject: Rondo Proves C's More Than Just Big Three To: celtics at igtc.com, Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Rondo Proves C's More Than Just Big Three (http://search.espn.go.com/john-hollinger/) By John Hollinger ESPN.com BOSTON -- The Big Three? Might want to make it the Fantastic Four. As the Celtics scuffled past Utah 100-91 for their 15th straight win, it was unquestionably _Rajon Rondo_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3026) that was the difference -- for good and bad. He spent the first and fourth quarters winning the game for the Celtics and much of the middle two stanzas giving it to Utah. At times it seemed he would get the league's first ever quintuple-double -- in points, rebounds, assists, turnovers and missed lay-ups. In the end, he finished with 25 points, nine boards, eight assists, six turnovers and three steals, while the Celtics tied a league record for the best 25-game start at 23-2. With four more victories, they'll set a new record for the most wins with only two losses to start a season. And these are related points: Boston's great start is a direct result of Rondo's ascension to stardom, providing another major contributors at both ends and taking some of the strain off _Kevin Garnett_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) , _Ray Allen_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) and _Paul Pierce_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) . In fact it was Rondo, not any of the Big Three, who was Boston's go-to guy down the stretch tonight. With the Celtics clinging to a four-point lead with 3:22 left, the Celtics turned to side pick-and-roll plays for Rondo, and he created points four times in five trips -- zooming in to the basket for two lay-ups, drawing a foul on another drive, and setting up two free throw by _Kendrick Perkins_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2018) on another. The clincher came on a spinning reverse lay-up with 43.6 seconds left with so much English that it left Celtics coach _Doc Rivers_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1579) comparing him to Minnesota Fats. "[Paul Pierce] told me never to play that man in horse and I had to learn the hard way," said teammate Kevin Garnett. "He's real good at using the backboard, really good with the English." This is the good Rondo -- the Rondo who dominated Game 6 of the Finals against the Lakers last year, and the one who will be instrumental in Boston's effort to repeat. Alas, he has a dark side. All the good requires living with the bad, especially since the 22-year old Rondo is still earning the ropes. We saw it in Saturday's 94-82 win over New Orleans, when a strangely passive Rondo sat most of the fourth quarter while _Eddie House_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=348) played, and we saw it tonight during a plague of turnovers that wasted a 12-point first-quarter lead. His six miscues and multiple misses from short-range were the Hyde to his Jekyll -- on occasion he's as capable of beating the Celtics as he is of beating their opponents. It's no surprise, then, that in Boston's two losses, Rondo has been the most ineffective Celtic. He had two points on 1-of-4 shooting in a 95-79 loss to Indiana, and two points on 1-of-8 shooting in a 94-85 loss to Denver. It bears noting that he had a total of just one turnover in those two games -- he's one of the rare players who seems to be a lot better when he's taking chances and, sometimes, screwing up. Fortunately for Boston, the good has massively outweighed the bad on most nights. On the season, his PER ranks second on the Celtics and is pushing Kevin Garnett's for the top spot; and even with tonight's mistakes, he was good enough to prompt Pierce to endorse him for the All-Star team. Perhaps that explains why the Celtics seem perfectly happy with the trade-off ... just as long as he's attacking. "Against New Orleans," said Rivers, "he walked the ball up the floor, he played at a medium pace, and that allowed them to stop him. Tonight, we just told him, 'Every single time we get a rebound, we want you at full speed up the floor,' and he did that. And I thought his speed, especially early and then in the third quarter, was the difference." "Rondo puts pressure on you defensively with his ability to push the ball up the floor," said Jazz coach Jerry Sloan. "They caught us a lot of times napping and he would push it and get an easy basket." The attacking mentality applies off the ball as well. Rivers was pleased that when Utah doubled off of Rondo -- a common tactic for Boston opponents -- he made hard cuts toward the basket instead of hanging out on the weak side. Often that resulted in pass from Pierce or Garnett to Rondo near the basket, who would then find a teammate for a score or a foul. About the only negative for Boston was a knee injury suffered by Pierce with 31 seconds left. The Celtics forward went down when Utah's _Mehmet Okur_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1014) crashed into him under the basket, and he stayed on the floor for several seconds during a timeout. Eventually he limped off with the help of two teammates -- no, we didn't see any wheelchairs -- and afterward he said he could put weight on it and felt he'd play on Wednesday in Atlanta. In fact, he felt good enough to take pictures in the locker room with Olympian Michael Phelps (who was there with Jared from Subway) after the game. Rivers also said trainer Eddie Lacerte told him he thought Pierce would be OK, but that they would do more tests on Tuesday. He'll be needed for Boston to continue its streak. The Celtics are on a three-game losing streak in Atlanta's Philips Arena -- where they lost Games 3, 4 and 6 in the first round of the 2008 playoffs -- while a Christmas date with the Lakers looms just nine days out. Two nights before that, hosting the 76ers, the Celts might have the opportunity to be the first NBA team to start 27-2. But they'll need Rondo too to win those games -- the aggressive, attacking Rondo. And if that player shows up every night, it will be time to retire the Big Three moniker in Beantown. John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 11:00:51 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:00:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: rondo In-Reply-To: <846135.1405.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <839536.43930.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> You're right Steve, Rondo still needs to work on his finishing. Those 'experts' think he's such a great finisher because almost all of his shots are layups, of which he makes a great percentage (they are layups after all). But I do think he's getting better. Once the floaters start going down, and the little mid-range pullups, watch out! Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, steve knight wrote:. > > one thing "experts" say about rondo is that > he's a great finisher. i actually think that's one > of his weaknesses. he's much better than he was last > year, but still not as polished as tony parker, for example. > in any case, when he starts mastering the teardrop and > finishing with both hands, we're going to be > unstoppable. as it is, he's pushed himself into > legitimate fantastic four talk already. fun to see him and > perk grow up before our eyes. compare perk to the beginning > of last year in finishing around the basket--not even close, > plus he's improving every day. > From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 11:05:53 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning In-Reply-To: <192744.45847.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38908.98908.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> You need to read more carefully, Greg. As I mentioned last night in a reply to Gene's reply about Paul Millsap, Pierce said his knee was fine in the post-game press conference. The trainer checked him out, prescribed him ice, and Paul thinks he'll be ready for Wednesday. So far, no other news has come out today, so it looks like we dodged a bullet there. He's going to be fine. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Greg Odegaard wrote: > From: Greg Odegaard > Subject: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:30 AM > Are we all so drunk with apparent success or am I just in > the twilight zone, because I don't see any messages yet > discussing Pierce's apparent injury at the end of the > game? > ? > I am on digest, but there was a digest from an hour ago and > nothing that I can see about this. > ? > My wife used to read these messages along with me of > course, and she would often comment on our debating issues > at length, while other issues would appear to go unnoticed. > ? > So for someone not living in Boston, but did have to watch > my oldest almost crying at the end of the game in nearly > pure garbage time, and for those anxiously waiting the > arrival in town 2 weeks from today of the World Champion > Boston Celtics, what is the news or chatter on the radio? > Please folks we and/or I need to know. > ? > By the way, 2 of the 5 tix I got are 4 rows behind the > Celtics bench for the 12/30 Blazer game. What chances would > there be that my son and I can get KG's attention and > have him respond or more? My son is freaking beside himself > over the idea of even having KG giving him a nod and believe > me my kid is loud and proud and will be a Celtic honk jerk > that night no matter the outcome or climate. I assume after > the game in Boston and the trashing that took place during > the game and the pathetic comments made by the young Blazer > players after the game and the full dressing down those > players got in the Portland media, it will and could be a > world class bball war and we couldn't be more excited. > ? > People, I have had near tussles with folks here in Portland > and maybe 7 years ago a cousin of my wife said to me in the > car afterward, I don't know you and I won't be going > to another game with you ever again and he was dead serious. > I become an animal as I can be watching the games at home. > So for any other Celtics fans either in Portland or planning > to travel in, and the tix by the way on Ebay are dropping in > value like a rock, let me know and we can party like it was > June 17 all over again. My son wants to meet KG or get his > attention but his Celtics Championship outfit should > probably get him on the big screen, plus it doesn't hurt > that he is 6-5, shaves his head and it a maniac about stuff > like this. I couldn't be prouder, about this and oh year > he is a HS senior and plans to be doctor thank you very > much. > ? > Thanks and any news on Pierce would be nice. Greg > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 11:18:13 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:18:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <0KBZ00IGT77R5W20@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <960489.5428.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Well said, Kim. Danny's probably just checking his options. Offering JR for a first round pick isn't an indictment of JR's talent; it's just that the team is satisfied that TA can handle the 2/3 backup minutes and that Bill Walker can fill in decently if an injury arises. I still think we release POB if we decide to add another player. That, or cut Cassell. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Kim Malo wrote: > From: Kim Malo > Subject: Re: JR > To: "celtics" > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:33 AM > At 09:32 AM 12/16/2008, Paul Bauer wrote: > > >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski > > > > The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. > Giddens, around the league for a future first-round pick. So > far, there are no takers. Giddens is playing for the Utah > Flash of the NBA Developmental League. > > Not real high on the credibility meter (Adrian, not you > Paul). A team would have to be under the cap now to make > that deal, even if they wanted to, and the only one who is > is Memphis. http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm While as > always, the ones most likely to be under would have high > draft picks and Giddens hasn't shown he's worth > giving up a potential high pick for. Which is not the same > as his being a bust, since he wasn't a high draft pick > himself. > > Do I believe JR can be had? Yeah. Have they been > disappointed in his development to date? Yup, at least from > earlier reports. Although the open question is how much, as > in is it now / still give up on this guy now disappointed. > That I'm less sure of. I will buy that they've been > shopping him because there's still that whole roster > spot issue if they want to sign someone who can help them > this season for a playoff run, with Giddens one of the > obvious candidates for player we can live without if it > wasn't for his having a 2 year guaranteed contract. > > Kim, firm believer in sometimes where there's smoke > there's fire but lots of times there's just someone > rubbing two sticks together > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jaims at pldtdsl.net Tue Dec 16 12:10:11 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 04:10:11 +0800 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90812161048t63ebf4b7mc1daac9ec20b2d17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No. I watched it. He?s lost confidence due to the erratic minutes given to him by the new coach. Him and nocioni has fallen out of favor in the coach?s rotation. It?s moot anyway, but if you have seen this guy?s play when given the ?right? playing time, he?s a monster. On 12/17/08 2:48 AM, "Jeff White" wrote: > Obviously you missed Thomas' performance when the C's beat the Bulls earlier > this season:) > > On 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: >> why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? >> tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm >> and potential. >> >> just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf >> Of Paul Bauer >> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM >> To: celtics >> Subject: JR >> >>> >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski >> >> The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the >> league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens >> is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > From jaims at pldtdsl.net Tue Dec 16 12:10:39 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 04:10:39 +0800 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <1923cbc90812161048t63ebf4b7mc1daac9ec20b2d17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And btw, of course any opponent of the celtics will play horribly with our kind of defense applied. Ask lebron, kobe, mcgrady, AI etc... :D what more a tyrus thomas... But seriously, this kid can be a force with the right system, coaching and vet influence. And we have these things right now, while chicago has none of those. On 12/17/08 2:48 AM, "Jeff White" wrote: > Obviously you missed Thomas' performance when the C's beat the Bulls earlier > this season:) > > On 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: >> why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? >> tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm >> and potential. >> >> just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf >> Of Paul Bauer >> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM >> To: celtics >> Subject: JR >> >>> >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski >> >> The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the >> league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens >> is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >> celtics at igtc.com >> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > From wayoftheray at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 12:14:28 2008 From: wayoftheray at yahoo.com (Way Of The Ray) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:14:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion Message-ID: <24203.97776.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Cleveland with Marion acting as Lebron's Pippen would be very formidable indeed. Conversely, the Celtics adding Mutumbo and Marbury, and acquiring a SF/PF type like Hakim Warrick, would help mitigate against the Cav's momentum. Whatever the case, Ainge needs to improve this club, because the Cavs and Lakers aren't likely to remain static... Cavs Discussing Marion Deal With Miami Dec 16, 2008 10:07 AM EST http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56020/20081216/cavs_discussing_marion_deal_with_miami/ The Cavaliers and Heat have reportedly had ongoing discussions regarding a trade that would send Shawn Marion to Cleveland for Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. Miami has had discussions with several teams recently regarding Marion, including the Raptors and Kings, according to sources. From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 13:02:56 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:02:56 -0800 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41FBFC37-D392-45ED-BFFF-2CE6A07D7A96@verizon.net> I would like to get Al Thornton from the clippers or even sefalosha from the bulls On Dec 16, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Jaims wrote: > And btw, of course any opponent of the celtics will play horribly > with our > kind of defense applied. Ask lebron, kobe, mcgrady, AI etc... :D > what more > a tyrus thomas... > > But seriously, this kid can be a force with the right system, > coaching and > vet influence. And we have these things right now, while chicago > has none > of those. > > > > On 12/17/08 2:48 AM, "Jeff White" wrote: > >> Obviously you missed Thomas' performance when the C's beat the >> Bulls earlier >> this season:) >> >> On 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: >>> why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus >>> thomas? >>> tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in >>> athleticsm >>> and potential. >>> >>> just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] >>> On Behalf >>> Of Paul Bauer >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM >>> To: celtics >>> Subject: JR >>> >>>>> From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski >>> >>> The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, >>> around the >>> league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. >>> Giddens >>> is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>> celtics at igtc.com >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>> celtics at igtc.com >>> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Tue Dec 16 13:06:02 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:06:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: JR Message-ID: <350263.42722.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com> That's not right. At the start of the season the Bulls gave him playing time and plenty of shots, but he made around 28% of them or something horrendous like that (his shooting percentage has now "increased" to 36%). Hence they have lost patience with him and would ship him out for just about anything right now. If the Bulls could have the 2006 draft over again they would have kept LaMarcus Aldrige, who will always be a much better player. --- Jaims wrote: No. I watched it. He?s lost confidence due to the erratic minutes given to him by the new coach. Him and nocioni has fallen out of favor in the coach?s rotation. It?s moot anyway, but if you have seen this guy?s play when given the ?right? playing time, he?s a monster. On 12/17/08 2:48 AM, "Jeff White" wrote: > Obviously you missed Thomas' performance when the C's beat the Bulls earlier > this season:) > > On 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: >> why not package him (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? >> tyrus is a taller version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm >> and potential. >> >> just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf >> Of Paul Bauer >> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM >> To: celtics >> Subject: JR >> >>> >From YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski >> >> The Celtics have offered their first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the >> league for a future first-round pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens >> is playing for the Utah Flash of the NBA Developmental League. >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>celtics at igtc.com >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing List >>celtics at igtc.com >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Tue Dec 16 13:06:42 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:06:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion Message-ID: <974312.13138.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The Suns and Mavericks also made significant trades mid-season recently and that has sure worked out well for them both... I reckon we can beat the Cavs with or without Marion. Mutombo is welcome anytime but Marbury can go anywhere he likes, including Los Angeles, and we'll still beat 'em. Don't forget that we have Cassell waiting for his chance and he has the ability to take on pressure defenses, unlike Eddie House. Pruitt will have his chance also. If I were the Cavs I wouldn't change anything with the current roster, which is what I am hoping the Celts do (other than signing a good, tall, backup for Perk). --- Way Of The Ray wrote: Cleveland with Marion acting as Lebron's Pippen would be very formidable indeed. Conversely, the Celtics adding Mutumbo and Marbury, and acquiring a SF/PF type like Hakim Warrick, would help mitigate against the Cav's momentum. Whatever the case, Ainge needs to improve this club, because the Cavs and Lakers aren't likely to remain static... Cavs Discussing Marion Deal With Miami Dec 16, 2008 10:07 AM EST http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56020/20081216/cavs_discussing_marion_deal_with_miami/ The Cavaliers and Heat have reportedly had ongoing discussions regarding a trade that would send Shawn Marion to Cleveland for Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. Miami has had discussions with several teams recently regarding Marion, including the Raptors and Kings, according to sources. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From stevebknight at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 13:22:20 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: jr References: Message-ID: <558332.86029.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> for JR? surely you jest. you'd be hard pressed to get someone like scal for jr straight up. nothing personal, but JR will have very little value until he plays in the league. doing what he's doing in the d league doesn't count for squat. now jr and scal for sefalosha, sure, but not sure it makes either team any better or worse. scal and jr for someone like battie, now that makes more sense because orlando needs a two badly, plus veteran "leadership", and we could use another big, but orlando likely wouldn't trade within the division (no idea if the numbers work, btw). Message: 11 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:02:56 -0800 From: John Lyell Subject: Re: JR To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Celtics Message-ID: <41FBFC37-D392-45ED-BFFF-2CE6A07D7A96 at verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes I would like to get Al Thornton from the clippers or even sefalosha from the bulls ** From gregodegaard at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 13:32:36 2008 From: gregodegaard at yahoo.com (Greg Odegaard) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:32:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: No subject Message-ID: <582015.70731.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Ryan, but this is not the depth of info I was hoping for from the learned experts back in your area listening to WEEI or anything that could update or fill in the gaps. I was watching the game and then watched ESPN News as this was happening last night and they initially claimed the injury was possibly serious, in fact they promod the next segment saying just that. They did update that Pierce thought he was fine, but that is simple gamesmanship pure and simple, so of course there is more, much more to this matter today and yet it has no legs apparently.?MAYBE it doesn't but not likely me thinks. ? For a green bleeding fan on the Left Coast this kind of Celtic crap means something more than a few lines of lip service. ? Let us all pray that it truly is nothing people, otherwise this will be all we talk about and my imploring any updates will seem even more trivial than it does right now. ? Thanks though and Go Celtics. Greg ? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan W Subject: Re: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning To: celtics at igtc.com Message-ID: <38908.98908.qm at web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 You need to read more carefully, Greg.? As I mentioned last night in a reply to Gene's reply about Paul Millsap, Pierce said his knee was fine in the post-game press conference.? The trainer checked him out, prescribed him ice, and Paul thinks he'll be ready for Wednesday.? So far, no other news has come out today, so it looks like we dodged a bullet there.? He's going to be fine. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Greg Odegaard wrote: > From: Greg Odegaard > Subject: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:30 AM > Are we all so drunk with apparent success or am I just in > the twilight zone, because I don't see any messages yet > discussing Pierce's apparent injury at the end of the > game? > ? > I am on digest, but there was a digest from an hour ago and > nothing that I can see about this. > ? > My wife used to read these messages along with me of > course, and she would often comment on our debating issues > at length, while other issues would appear to go unnoticed. > ? > So for someone not living in Boston, but did have to watch > my oldest almost crying at the end of the game in nearly > pure garbage time, and for those anxiously waiting the > arrival in town 2 weeks from today of the World Champion > Boston Celtics, what is the news or chatter on the radio? > Please folks we and/or I need to know. > ? > By the way, 2 of the 5 tix I got are 4 rows behind the > Celtics bench for the 12/30 Blazer game. What chances would > there be that my son and I can get KG's attention and > have him respond or more? My son is freaking beside himself > over the idea of even having KG giving him a nod and believe > me my kid is loud and proud and will be a Celtic honk jerk > that night no matter the outcome or climate. I assume after > the game in Boston and the trashing that took place during > the game and the pathetic comments made by the young Blazer > players after the game and the full dressing down those > players got in the Portland media, it will and could be a > world class bball war and we couldn't be more excited. > ? > People, I have had near tussles with folks here in Portland > and maybe 7 years ago a cousin of my wife said to me in the > car afterward, I don't know you and I won't be going > to another game with you ever again and he was dead serious. > I become an animal as I can be watching the games at home. > So for any other Celtics fans either in Portland or planning > to travel in, and the tix by the way on Ebay are dropping in > value like a rock, let me know and we can party like it was > June 17 all over again. My son wants to meet KG or get his > attention but his Celtics Championship outfit should > probably get him on the big screen, plus it doesn't hurt > that he is 6-5, shaves his head and it a maniac about stuff > like this. I couldn't be prouder, about this and oh year > he is a HS senior and plans to be doctor thank you very > much. > ? > Thanks and any news on Pierce would be nice. Greg > > >? ? ??? > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics ????? From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 14:11:03 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:11:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: In-Reply-To: <582015.70731.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <110907.4197.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yeah, well, that's pretty much all we got here on the East Coast too. The Cs aren't very forthcoming with the injury info. All we know is that he's going to test it during Wednesday's shoot-around and go from there. If I had to guess, I bet he misses the game for precautionary reasons. Overall, though, no news is good news. If it were a major injury, we'd know. Since we know nothing, it's just a regular old injury, not too serious, but painful for Paul I suppose. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Greg Odegaard wrote: > From: Greg Odegaard > Subject: > To: celtics at igtc.com > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 3:32 PM > Thanks Ryan, but this is not the depth of info I was hoping > for from the learned experts back in your area listening to > WEEI or anything that could update or fill in the gaps. I > was watching the game and then watched ESPN News as this was > happening last night and they initially claimed the injury > was possibly serious, in fact they promod the next segment > saying just that. They did update that Pierce thought he was > fine, but that is simple gamesmanship pure and simple, so of > course there is more, much more to this matter today and yet > it has no legs apparently.?MAYBE it doesn't but not > likely me thinks. > ? > For a green bleeding fan on the Left Coast this kind of > Celtic crap means something more than a few lines of lip > service. > ? > Let us all pray that it truly is nothing people, otherwise > this will be all we talk about and my imploring any updates > will seem even more trivial than it does right now. > ? > Thanks though and Go Celtics. > Greg > ? > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) > From: Ryan W > Subject: Re: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning > To: celtics at igtc.com > Message-ID: > <38908.98908.qm at web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > You need to read more carefully, Greg.? As I mentioned > last night in a reply to Gene's reply about Paul > Millsap, Pierce said his knee was fine in the post-game > press conference.? The trainer checked him out, prescribed > him ice, and Paul thinks he'll be ready for Wednesday.? > So far, no other news has come out today, so it looks like > we dodged a bullet there.? He's going to be fine. > > Ryan > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Greg Odegaard > wrote: > > > From: Greg Odegaard > > Subject: Pierce's Knee and Blazer Game Planning > > To: celtics at igtc.com > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:30 AM > > Are we all so drunk with apparent success or am I just > in > > the twilight zone, because I don't see any > messages yet > > discussing Pierce's apparent injury at the end of > the > > game? > > ? > > I am on digest, but there was a digest from an hour > ago and > > nothing that I can see about this. > > ? > > My wife used to read these messages along with me of > > course, and she would often comment on our debating > issues > > at length, while other issues would appear to go > unnoticed. > > ? > > So for someone not living in Boston, but did have to > watch > > my oldest almost crying at the end of the game in > nearly > > pure garbage time, and for those anxiously waiting the > > arrival in town 2 weeks from today of the World > Champion > > Boston Celtics, what is the news or chatter on the > radio? > > Please folks we and/or I need to know. > > ? > > By the way, 2 of the 5 tix I got are 4 rows behind the > > Celtics bench for the 12/30 Blazer game. What chances > would > > there be that my son and I can get KG's attention > and > > have him respond or more? My son is freaking beside > himself > > over the idea of even having KG giving him a nod and > believe > > me my kid is loud and proud and will be a Celtic honk > jerk > > that night no matter the outcome or climate. I assume > after > > the game in Boston and the trashing that took place > during > > the game and the pathetic comments made by the young > Blazer > > players after the game and the full dressing down > those > > players got in the Portland media, it will and could > be a > > world class bball war and we couldn't be more > excited. > > ? > > People, I have had near tussles with folks here in > Portland > > and maybe 7 years ago a cousin of my wife said to me > in the > > car afterward, I don't know you and I won't be > going > > to another game with you ever again and he was dead > serious. > > I become an animal as I can be watching the games at > home. > > So for any other Celtics fans either in Portland or > planning > > to travel in, and the tix by the way on Ebay are > dropping in > > value like a rock, let me know and we can party like > it was > > June 17 all over again. My son wants to meet KG or get > his > > attention but his Celtics Championship outfit should > > probably get him on the big screen, plus it > doesn't hurt > > that he is 6-5, shaves his head and it a maniac about > stuff > > like this. I couldn't be prouder, about this and > oh year > > he is a HS senior and plans to be doctor thank you > very > > much. > > ? > > Thanks and any news on Pierce would be nice. Greg > > > > > >? ? ??? > > _______________________________________________ > > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > > celtics at igtc.com > > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > ????? > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Tue Dec 16 14:13:02 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:13:02 -0500 Subject: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion In-Reply-To: <24203.97776.qm@web110108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081216171302.6P2Z3.65259.imail@eastrmwml38> Marion was never, nor will be a Pippen. He is certainly on the downside of his career, and one of the most over rated players in the NBA. ---- Way Of The Ray wrote: > Cleveland with Marion acting as Lebron's Pippen would be very formidable indeed. Conversely, the Celtics adding Mutumbo and Marbury, and acquiring a SF/PF type like Hakim Warrick, would help mitigate against the Cav's momentum. > > Whatever the case, Ainge needs to improve this club, because the Cavs and Lakers aren't likely to remain static... > > > Cavs Discussing Marion Deal With Miami > Dec 16, 2008 10:07 AM EST > http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56020/20081216/cavs_discussing_marion_deal_with_miami/ > > The Cavaliers and Heat have reportedly had ongoing discussions > regarding a trade that would send Shawn Marion to Cleveland for > Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. > Miami has had discussions with several teams recently regarding Marion, including the Raptors and Kings, according to sources. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From kmalo17 at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 17:00:07 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:00:07 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: <110907.4197.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <582015.70731.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <110907.4197.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0KBZ007XLXG0U1H1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> At 05:11 PM 12/16/2008, Ryan W wrote: >Yeah, well, that's pretty much all we got here on the East Coast >too. The Cs aren't very forthcoming with the injury info. All we >know is that he's going to test it during Wednesday's shoot-around >and go from there. If I had to guess, I bet he misses the game for >precautionary reasons. It was just reported on the news that he's actually cleared to play Wed, which I think I can believe from his moving better by the time he reached the tunnel last night. But you're right, there just wasn't much news to report. While of course ESPN said it was "possibly serious" - like people are going to keep coming back to them for more if they say the truth [no pun intended], which was that they hadn't a clue? This is a good thing in two ways BTW - a) it says good things about the organization that we no longer spring leaks like a sieve, and b) as Ryan notes: >Overall, though, no news is good news. If it were a major injury, >we'd know. Since we know nothing, it's just a regular old injury, >not too serious, but painful for Paul I suppose. BAD injuries are the ones you know immediately about, although maybe not exactly how bad. It's the minor tweaks that take longer to determine exactly what's up beyond there being pain. Kim From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 19:00:24 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:00:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: jr Message-ID: <451089.13745.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Obviously not straight up for a D league guy. We would need to include Baby?& possibly?Pruitt for Thornton, that is if they would even consider it Battie, is he still playing? ? ________________________________ From: steve knight To: celtics at igtc.com Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:22:20 PM Subject: Re: jr for JR? surely you jest. you'd be hard pressed to get someone like scal for jr straight up. nothing personal, but JR will have very little value until he plays in the league. doing what he's doing in the d league doesn't count for squat. now jr and scal for sefalosha, sure, but not sure it makes either team any better or worse. scal and jr for someone like battie, now that makes more sense because orlando needs a two badly, plus veteran "leadership", and we could use another big, but orlando likely wouldn't trade within the division (no idea if the numbers work, btw).? Message: 11 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:02:56 -0800 From: John Lyell Subject: Re: JR To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Celtics Message-ID: <41FBFC37-D392-45ED-BFFF-2CE6A07D7A96 at verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset=us-ascii;? ? format=flowed;? ? delsp=yes I would like to get Al Thornton from the clippers or even sefalosha? from the bulls ** ? ? ? _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Tue Dec 16 19:03:21 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:03:21 -0500 Subject: jr In-Reply-To: <451089.13745.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081216220321.MYKSQ.68795.imail@eastrmwml33> Tony? He played against us last week. ---- John Lyell wrote: > Obviously not straight up for a D league guy. We would need to include Baby?& possibly?Pruitt for Thornton, that is if they would even consider it > > Battie, is he still playing? > > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: steve knight > To: celtics at igtc.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:22:20 PM > Subject: Re: jr > > for JR? surely you jest. you'd be hard pressed to get someone like scal for jr straight up. nothing personal, but JR will have very little value until he plays in the league. doing what he's doing in the d league doesn't count for squat. now jr and scal for sefalosha, sure, but not sure it makes either team any better or worse. scal and jr for someone like battie, now that makes more sense because orlando needs a two badly, plus veteran "leadership", and we could use another big, but orlando likely wouldn't trade within the division (no idea if the numbers work, btw).? > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:02:56 -0800 > From: John Lyell > Subject: Re: JR > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Celtics > Message-ID: <41FBFC37-D392-45ED-BFFF-2CE6A07D7A96 at verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset=us-ascii;? ? format=flowed;? ? delsp=yes > > I would like to get Al Thornton from the clippers or even sefalosha? > from the bulls > > > ** > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jlyell at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 19:03:32 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:03:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion Message-ID: <577815.16308.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree, I would prefer Verajao Would you move Tony Allen?for Ryan Gomes? ________________________________ From: "martind42 at cox.net" To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:13:02 PM Subject: Re: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion Marion was never, nor will be a Pippen.? He is certainly on the downside of his career, and one of the most over rated players in the NBA. ---- Way Of The Ray wrote: > Cleveland with Marion acting as Lebron's Pippen would be very formidable indeed. Conversely, the Celtics adding Mutumbo and Marbury, and acquiring a SF/PF type like Hakim Warrick, would help mitigate against the Cav's momentum. > > Whatever the case, Ainge needs to improve this club, because the Cavs and Lakers aren't likely to remain static... > > > Cavs Discussing Marion Deal With Miami > Dec 16, 2008 10:07 AM EST > http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56020/20081216/cavs_discussing_marion_deal_with_miami/ > > The Cavaliers and Heat have reportedly had ongoing discussions > regarding a trade that would send Shawn Marion to Cleveland for > Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. > Miami has had discussions with several teams recently regarding Marion, including the Raptors and Kings, according to sources. > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 19:05:48 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:05:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: another college SG Message-ID: <606498.73134.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I tuned in the Marquette game to see Jimmy Butler, soph. who was my student last year, and discovered Matthews, a 6' 5" SG who can really shoot.? They said his dad played in the NBA.? He's impressive:? quick, great shot, nice composure.? Need to see more but he's the best on a very good Marquette squad--also a senior.? Gene From jaims at pldtdsl.net Tue Dec 16 19:36:04 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:36:04 +0800 Subject: jr In-Reply-To: <451089.13745.qm@web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Battie is playing pretty well as the chief backup center. Not eye popping numbers but decent. Watched a couple of magic games and got to see him give relief job of 12pts 8rbs... But doesn't he have a perk-like salary or bigger? On 12/17/08 11:00 AM, "John Lyell" wrote: > Obviously not straight up for a D league guy. We would need to include Baby?& > possibly?Pruitt for Thornton, that is if they would even consider it > > Battie, is he still playing? > > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: steve knight > To: celtics at igtc.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:22:20 PM > Subject: Re: jr > > for JR? surely you jest. you'd be hard pressed to get someone like scal for jr > straight up. nothing personal, but JR will have very little value until he > plays in the league. doing what he's doing in the d league doesn't count for > squat. now jr and scal for sefalosha, sure, but not sure it makes either team > any better or worse. scal and jr for someone like battie, now that makes more > sense because orlando needs a two badly, plus veteran "leadership", and we > could use another big, but orlando likely wouldn't trade within the division > (no idea if the numbers work, btw).? > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:02:56 -0800 > From: John Lyell > Subject: Re: JR > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Celtics > Message-ID: <41FBFC37-D392-45ED-BFFF-2CE6A07D7A96 at verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset=us-ascii;? ? format=flowed;? ? delsp=yes > > I would like to get Al Thornton from the clippers or even sefalosha? > from the bulls > > > ** > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From jaims at pldtdsl.net Tue Dec 16 19:37:29 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:37:29 +0800 Subject: another college SG In-Reply-To: <606498.73134.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is his dad a former faker, wes matthews? On 12/17/08 11:05 AM, "gene kirkpatrick" wrote: > I tuned in the Marquette game to see Jimmy Butler, soph. who was my student > last year, and discovered Matthews, a 6' 5" SG who can really shoot.? They > said his dad played in the NBA.? He's impressive:? quick, great shot, nice > composure.? Need to see more but he's the best on a very good Marquette > squad--also a senior.? Gene > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 20:49:46 2008 From: ubiquitous_am_i at yahoo.com (Ryan W) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:49:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Celtics Better Improve Themselves, If The Cavs Are Targeting Marion In-Reply-To: <577815.16308.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <419747.77973.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> No. Tony's Mr. Everything for the 2nd team; best dribble penentrator, ball-handler, scorer, defender, and creator. Gomes is a nice player, but our 2nd team would be in ruins w/o Tony. Ryan --- On Tue, 12/16/08, John Lyell wrote: > From: John Lyell > > Would you move Tony Allen?for Ryan Gomes? From stevebknight at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 05:46:10 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:46:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something. References: Message-ID: <860696.36609.qm@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 17 17:43:15 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:43:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something. Message-ID: <665973.50035.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- ? Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? ? ? This begs the question- ? Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? ? ? ? I look forward to your reply. ? ? ? ? --- steve knight wrote: ?if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 18:41:05 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:41:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: big game tonight Message-ID: <202886.10015.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think tonight's game is a real test, perhaps not as big as such a game in March, but big.? Atlanta is still gathering steam, learning how to play together, deciding if they are able to play quality defense--but they have loads of talent.? Their athletic abilities are equal to any and their youthful exuberance can carry them a long way--as it almost did last year.? It will show us how well our desire to become more "athletic" has worked; Tony & Baby need productive games, not just hustle games.? Cheers, Gene From jaims at pldtdsl.net Wed Dec 17 05:29:51 2008 From: jaims at pldtdsl.net (Jaims) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:29:51 +0800 Subject: JR In-Reply-To: <350263.42722.qm@web63805.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, all I am saying is this guy can play and has proven it, given the right guidance and training from our coaches and vet players, he'd flourish and thrive better than where he is right now. Chicago's system of just jacking outside shots obviously doesn't fit tyrus thomas. Put him into our system and he'll bloom, imo. Imagine him patrolling the lane with perk and running the break with rondo... Blocks and dunks galore. On 12/17/08 5:06 AM, "Adam Patterson" wrote: > That's not right. At the start of the season the Bulls gave him playing time > and plenty of shots, but he made around 28% of them or something horrendous > like that (his shooting percentage has now "increased" to 36%). Hence they > have lost patience with him and would ship him out for just about anything > right now. If the Bulls could have the 2006 draft over again they would have > kept LaMarcus Aldrige, who will always be a much better player. --- Jaims > wrote: No. I watched it. He?s lost confidence due to the erratic minutes > given to him by the new coach. Him and nocioni has fallen out of favor in > the coach?s rotation. It?s moot anyway, but if you have seen this guy?s > play when given the ?right? playing time, he?s a monster. On 12/17/08 2:48 > AM, "Jeff White" wrote: > Obviously you missed > Thomas' performance when the C's beat the Bulls earlier > this season:) > > On > 12/16/08, Jaims wrote: >> why not package him > (giddens), scal and another pick to get tyrus thomas? >> tyrus is a taller > version of giddens afterall who's bursting in athleticsm >> and > potential. >> >> just my opinion (wishful thinking) :) >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com > [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On Behalf >> Of Paul Bauer >> Sent: > Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:33 PM >> To: celtics >> Subject: JR >> >>> >From > YAHOO Sports -- Adrian Wojnarowski >> >> The Celtics have offered their > first-round pick, J.R. Giddens, around the >> league for a future first-round > pick. So far, there are no takers. Giddens >> is playing for the Utah Flash of > the NBA Developmental League. >> > _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing > List >>celtics at > igtc.com >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> The Boston Celtics Mailing > List >>celtics at > igtc.com >>http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > Start your > day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline ______________ > _________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing > List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Wed Dec 17 19:21:21 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:21:21 -0500 Subject: turning jr and scal into something. In-Reply-To: <665973.50035.qm@web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081217142121.ZKPLC.80181.imail@eastrmwml41> 2 to 3 years down the road I'd expect at least Walker in the lineup. Giddens numbes in the D League aren't too shabby, so he and Tony may be sharing some time if both are still on the team. If this were the pre-Garnett and Allen years, one or both may have been in there already. ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- ? Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? ? ? This begs the question- ? Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? ? ? ? I look forward to your reply. ? ? ? ? --- steve knight wrote: ?if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From pdelevett at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 19:25:54 2008 From: pdelevett at yahoo.com (Peter Delevett) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:25:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: A trade I'd do Message-ID: <322564.25768.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's hard to argue for making major changes to a team that's off to a franchise-best start, but the Utah game helps build the case: the stahtahs all played 34 mins or more, and the bench produced a total of 14 points. I agree with those who think Cassell will be able to provide some of the PG help that Way Ray has been clamoring for; and I'd be all in favor of adding Mt. Mutombo, even if that means eating POB's short-money deal. But neither of those moves addresses what I'd argue is Boston's biggest need: a sizeable veteran swingman who can spell Pierce and shoot the three. A guy I like is Jarvis Hayes. He's platooning in Jersey right now, but he was a pretty key reserve for Detroit and, before that, Washington. He's 6'8, can play good defense when he wants to and is a career 35% three-point shooter. Best of all, he's cheap; according to RealGM, you could swap Scal's remaining year for Hayes and former BC stud/current Nets bad boy Sean Williams. If the shot-blocking Williams can get his stuff together in a new environment, you'd fill two needs with one trade. Jersey would likely ask for some sweetener, so you could toss in a first-round pick or perhaps Giddens, who as I've pointed out before is putting up nice numbers in the D-League (17 ppg, 55% shooting). I'd also consider dangling Pruitt, Davis or Walker instead, but I'd imagine most people would disagree. From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 17 19:57:07 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:57:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something. References: <20081217142121.ZKPLC.80181.imail@eastrmwml41> Message-ID: <891584.84363.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I also thought Bill Walker, but I wondered why him and not Giddens and it must have been that massive dunk in the first preseason game by Walker that got everyone's attention. Powe has the potential to play as a starter alongside other stars, as long as he adds a mid-to-long-range jumpshot to his good post-up game and strong putbacks. I guess you could say- Powe is a "jumpshot away from being an All-Star" :) ________________________________ From: "martind42 at cox.net" To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Adam Patterson Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 7:21:21 PM Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. 2 to 3 years down the road I'd expect at least Walker in the lineup. Giddens numbes in the D League aren't too shabby, so he and Tony may be sharing some time if both are still on the team. If this were the pre-Garnett and Allen years, one or both may have been in there already. ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? This begs the question- Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? I look forward to your reply. --- steve knight wrote: if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline _______________________________________________ The Boston Celtics Mailing List celtics at igtc.com http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From jlyell at verizon.net Wed Dec 17 20:14:45 2008 From: jlyell at verizon.net (John Lyell) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:14:45 -0800 Subject: A trade I'd do In-Reply-To: <322564.25768.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <322564.25768.qm@web110111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scal & baby , or ob for Hayes and Williams would be a good deal even if we include pruitt On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Peter Delevett wrote: > It's hard to argue for making major changes to a team that's off to > a franchise-best start, but the Utah game helps build the case: the > stahtahs all played 34 mins or more, and the bench produced a total > of 14 points. I agree with those who think Cassell will be able to > provide some of the PG help that Way Ray has been clamoring for; and > I'd be all in favor of adding Mt. Mutombo, even if that means eating > POB's short-money deal. But neither of those moves addresses what > I'd argue is Boston's biggest need: a sizeable veteran swingman who > can spell Pierce and shoot the three. > > A guy I like is Jarvis Hayes. He's platooning in Jersey right now, > but he was a pretty key reserve for Detroit and, before that, > Washington. He's 6'8, can play good defense when he wants to and is > a career 35% three-point shooter. Best of all, he's cheap; according > to RealGM, you could swap Scal's remaining year for Hayes and former > BC stud/current Nets bad boy Sean Williams. If the shot-blocking > Williams can get his stuff together in a new environment, you'd fill > two needs with one trade. Jersey would likely ask for some > sweetener, so you could toss in a first-round pick or perhaps > Giddens, who as I've pointed out before is putting up nice numbers > in the D-League (17 ppg, 55% shooting). I'd also consider dangling > Pruitt, Davis or Walker instead, but I'd imagine most people would > disagree. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From martind42 at cox.net Wed Dec 17 20:39:39 2008 From: martind42 at cox.net (martind42 at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:39:39 -0500 Subject: turning jr and scal into something. In-Reply-To: <891584.84363.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081217153939.PP5ZY.83762.imail@eastrmwml39> Powe is a poor man's Al Jefferson. An inch or 2 and a shot, and he'd be his equal. ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > I also thought Bill Walker, but I wondered why him and not Giddens and it must have been that massive dunk in the first preseason game by Walker that got everyone's attention. > > Powe has the potential to play as a starter alongside other stars, as long as he adds a mid-to-long-range jumpshot to his good post-up game and strong putbacks. > > I guess you could say- > > Powe is a "jumpshot away from being an All-Star" > > :) > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "martind42 at cox.net" > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Adam Patterson > Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 7:21:21 PM > Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. > > 2 to 3 years down the road I'd expect at least Walker in the lineup. Giddens numbes in the D League aren't too shabby, so he and Tony may be sharing some time if both are still on the team. If this were the pre-Garnett and Allen years, one or both may have been in there already. > ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > > The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- > > Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? > > > This begs the question- > > Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? > > > > I look forward to your reply. > > > > > --- steve knight wrote: > if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? > > i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 17 21:52:07 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:52:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something. References: <20081217153939.PP5ZY.83762.imail@eastrmwml39> Message-ID: <402150.37106.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> True that. I was also thinking that Powe's ferocity is similar to Garnett's... ________________________________ From: "martind42 at cox.net" To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Cc: Adam Patterson Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 8:39:39 PM Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. Powe is a poor man's Al Jefferson. An inch or 2 and a shot, and he'd be his equal. ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > I also thought Bill Walker, but I wondered why him and not Giddens and it must have been that massive dunk in the first preseason game by Walker that got everyone's attention. > > Powe has the potential to play as a starter alongside other stars, as long as he adds a mid-to-long-range jumpshot to his good post-up game and strong putbacks. > > I guess you could say- > > Powe is a "jumpshot away from being an All-Star" > > :) > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "martind42 at cox.net" > To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List > Cc: Adam Patterson > Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 7:21:21 PM > Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. > > 2 to 3 years down the road I'd expect at least Walker in the lineup. Giddens numbes in the D League aren't too shabby, so he and Tony may be sharing some time if both are still on the team. If this were the pre-Garnett and Allen years, one or both may have been in there already. > ---- Adam Patterson wrote: > > The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- > > Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? > > > This begs the question- > > Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? > > > > I look forward to your reply. > > > > > --- steve knight wrote: > if you're anxious to turn jr into someone who can play, we need to look at young teams who need a two and some vet help (jr and scal). so we're looking at teams like the thunder and orlando. not sure about numbers, but i'd do a scal and jr for collison, for example. btw, what ever happened to robert swift? last time i saw him he looked scary weird with all the tats and hair. is he hurt or is he just not very good? > > i'm cool with keeping jr and scal, but if you're trolling for a big guy or pg help, they're the most obvious ones to move. > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > _______________________________________________ > The Boston Celtics Mailing List > celtics at igtc.com > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline From BDodgers at aol.com Thu Dec 18 16:06:31 2008 From: BDodgers at aol.com (BDodgers at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:06:31 EST Subject: Farmar disgruntled with Lakers role Message-ID: _Farmar disgruntled with Lakers role_ (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/81912-farmar-disgruntled-with-lakers-role?eref=fromSI) It was a meeting of the minds Monday between Lakers point guard Jordan Farmar and Coach Phil Jackson. They talked about differences in philosophies and styles of play. By Tuesday night, Farmar seemed disgruntled, the telling sign coming when Jackson yanked him out of the game against New York 4:01 into the fourth quarter and the 6-foot-2 guard stormed off the court and exchanged words with his coach. Farmar played just nine minutes against the Knicks. On Wednesday after practice, Farmar sounded more disillusioned about his role when he talked about his meeting in Jackson's office at the team's practice facility. "He didn't call me up there, I asked to talk to him -- to vent," Farmar said. "Just trying to get some things across." It was as if Farmar popped into the "principal's office," Jackson said. "I felt he was frustrated." Earlier in the season, Jackson allowed Farmar the freedom to run the fastbreak, to run more pick and rolls on offense and less of the triangle offense. Now, Farmar said, Jackson wants him to be more precise, to run the triangle offense and throttle down on the fastbreak when it's not there. (Los Angeles Times) **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From snoopy at celticsbeagle.net Fri Dec 19 02:33:11 2008 From: snoopy at celticsbeagle.net (Snoopy the Celtics Beagle) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:33:11 -0500 Subject: From the CBW: What's in front of them Message-ID: <20081219023320.63EAFE182BB@ignite.igtc.com> From the CBW: In the movie "The Gumball Rally" about a cross country road race, as the race begins, one of the drivers disdainfully rips the rear view mirror off the windshield and proclaims he doesn't care about what's behind him, only what's in front of him. In catching up on some articles today, I noticed one that caught my attention, where the &%$&#^$#**# Lakers, about to play another team, were in the locker room....watching the Celtics game on tv. I was shocked that anyone let that news out the door. Watching a team you won't play for weeks? Over in the children's section, ESPN tells anyone who will listen that the Lakers or the Cavs are the teams of Destiny this year. Maybe Detroit, they say. They stop just short of pointing and laughing at suggestions that Rajon Rondo might make the All-Star team. They paint KG as a meanie head who belittles his opponents (they apparently never caught any Grizzlies games for a decade or so). Perkins is Rasheed the Next Generation. Boston isn't nearly as good this year as last year (you remember, when they predicted the Lakers would win the Finals by Acclimation? Just before the C's demolished them on national television?) Good Grief, they even somehow got Bill Walton to predict a win for Atlanta over Boston without dissolving into a gigglefit on the air. I hope Bill collected oodles of money on side bets. Yet somehow, Boston keeps winning. Yes, some of the wins were luck, but without luck you cannot be a champion. Sometimes you need the ball to bounce your way, and every NBA champion has had their share of lucky bounces. The Celtics have a better record this season than last season to date, despite being the defending champions with every pissant team (Yes, Atlanta, that still means you. It's not a rivalry until you take a series) coming after them like it's Game 7 of the Finals, and playing a tougher schedule. Despite the so-called "experts" apparently enjoying the taste of crow and shoe leather by once more anointing Los Angeles (or maybe Cleveland) as next year's residence of the NBA trophy, Boston is clearly the better team. Those morons need to pay attention. Boston is 24-2, and riding a 16 game winning streak. The third rate Lakers have lost 2 of their last 10 games. Yeah, yeah, i know they're 21-3 overall, but for crying out loud, they nearly got taken down by the Knicks. They DID lose to Sacramento, a 7-19 team. They have two teams in their conference that have a combined win total only 2 games greater than the Eastern Conference's worst team. The Lakers supposedly play better defense than they did last June. Well, I sure as hell HOPE so, because their defense looked more like a layup line by Game 6. But they still give up more points than the C's do. Their offense, much as they say otherwise, still boils down to Bean Boy having a good game. But the most telling difference is this. Celtics players aren't gathered around the tv set watching Lakers games over a month before they meet. All they'll need to see is some game tape a day or so before the game. After all, they're not worried about what's behind them. And the Lakers are obviously worried about what's in front of them. Snoopy the Celtics Beagle Please visit the Celtics Beagle Website From douglas342 at aol.com Fri Dec 19 05:51:13 2008 From: douglas342 at aol.com (douglas342 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:51:13 -0500 Subject: From the CBW: What's in front of them In-Reply-To: <20081219023320.63EAFE182BB@ignite.igtc.com> References: <20081219023320.63EAFE182BB@ignite.igtc.com> Message-ID: <8CB2FB4EF969BF1-4C4-196A@WEBMAIL-MC11.sysops.aol.com> And the Sports Illustrated "players' poll:" 67% think the Lakers take the title, while 20% go with the Celtics. The other 13% go with Lebron (oops - Cleveland) or San Antonio. And did you know that the MVP award, per the buzz in LA, is a duel between Kobe and Gasol? I'll miss the 12/25 game - I always play golf that day. Sigh. -----Original Message----- From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle To: celtics at igtc.com; Celticsstuffgroup at yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 6:33 pm Subject: From the CBW: What's in front of them >From the CBW:? ? In the movie "The Gumball Rally" about a cross country road race, as the race begins, one of the drivers disdainfully rips the rear view mirror off the windshield and proclaims he doesn't care about what's behind him, only what's in front of him.? ? In catching up on some articles today, I noticed one that caught my attention, where the &%$&#^$#**# Lakers, about to play another team, were in the locker room....watching the Celtics game on tv.? ? I was shocked that anyone let that news out the door. Watching a team you won't play for weeks?? ? Over in the children's section, ESPN tells anyone who will listen that the Lakers or the Cavs are the teams of Destiny this year. Maybe Detroit, they say. They stop just short of pointing and laughing at suggestions that Rajon Rondo might make the All-St ar team.? ? They paint KG as a meanie head who belittles his opponents (they apparently never caught any Grizzlies games for a decade or so). Perkins is Rasheed the Next Generation. Boston isn't nearly as good this year as last year (you remember, when they predicted the Lakers would win the Finals by Acclimation? Just before the C's demolished them on national television?)? ? Good Grief, they even somehow got Bill Walton to predict a win for Atlanta over Boston without dissolving into a gigglefit on the air. I hope Bill collected oodles of money on side bets.? ? Yet somehow, Boston keeps winning. Yes, some of the wins were luck, but without luck you cannot be a champion. Sometimes you need the ball to bounce your way, and every NBA champion has had their share of lucky bounces.? ? The Celtics have a better record this season than last season to date, despite being the defending champions with every pissant team (Yes, Atlanta, that still means you. It's not a rivalry until you take a series) coming after them like it's Game 7 of the Finals, and playing a tougher schedule.? ? Despite the so-called "experts" apparently enjoying the taste of crow and shoe leather by once more anointing Los Angeles (or maybe Cleveland) as next year's residence of the NBA trophy, Boston is clearly the better team.? ? Those morons need to pay attention. Boston is 24-2, and riding a 16 game winning streak. The third rate Lakers have lost 2 of their last 10 games. Yeah, yeah, i know they're 21-3 overall, but for crying out loud, they nearly got taken down by the Knicks. They DID lose to Sacramento, a 7-19 team. They have two teams in their conference that have a combined win total only 2 games greater than the Eastern Conference's worst team.? ? The Lakers supposedly play better defense than they did last June. Well, I sure as hell HOPE so, because their defense looked more like a layup line by Game 6. But they still give up more points than the C's do. Their offense, much as they say otherwise, still boils down to Bean Boy having a good game.? ? But the most telling difference is this. Celtics players aren't gathered around the tv set watching Lakers games over a month before they meet. All they'll need to see is some game tape a day or so before the game.? ? After all, they're not worried about what's behind them.? ? And the Lakers are obviously worried about what's in front of them.? ? Snoopy the Celtics Beagle? Please visit the Celtics Beagle Website _______________________________________________? The Boston Celtics Mailing List? celtics at igtc.com? http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics? From stevebknight at yahoo.com Fri Dec 19 12:30:35 2008 From: stevebknight at yahoo.com (steve knight) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:30:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something References: Message-ID: <741946.44230.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> if danny saw enough to draft them, they must have promise. i honestly haven't seen enough of jr to make an educated comment, but he certainly has the size and drive to be a contributor. as for the young guns: rondo: is in the top 5 pgs now and rising. will be the pg and leader for the next 10-15 years, barring injury davis: a savvy, solid contributor for years to come. will get better and better. i can see him starting with rondo and perk eventually. powe: if he adds a medium range shot, he'd be dangerous. he could start on a championship team in 5 years perk: i can't believe i'm saying this, but he's already a borderline all star. there's no reason he can't get better every year for the next 6-8 years. walker: your guess is as good as mine. tony: solid contributor, i can see him and rondo as a starting unit on a playoff team pruitt: still too early to tell, but sure has a beautiful shot. could be gerald henderson...or jo jo white. watching the hawks game, how the hell could we have chosen kedrick brown over joe johnson in that delk/rogers trade? someone wasn't paying attention. random question: who do you think is the most overrated player in the nba today? Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Patterson Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. To: Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <665973.50035.qm at web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- ? Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? ? ? This begs the question- ? Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? ? ? ? I look forward to your reply. ? From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Fri Dec 19 13:02:56 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:02:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something Message-ID: <834874.74270.qm@web63808.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Without D'Antoni and the free-flowing system, Steve Nash is looking mightily average... ...not quite overrated yet though. --- steve knight wrote: if danny saw enough to draft them, they must have promise. i honestly haven't seen enough of jr to make an educated comment, but he certainly has the size and drive to be a contributor. as for the young guns: rondo: is in the top 5 pgs now and rising. will be the pg and leader for the next 10-15 years, barring injury davis: a savvy, solid contributor for years to come. will get better and better. i can see him starting with rondo and perk eventually.?? powe: if he adds a medium range shot, he'd be dangerous. he could start on a championship team in 5 years? perk: i can't believe i'm saying this, but he's already a borderline all star. there's no reason he can't get better every year for the next 6-8 years. walker: your guess is as good as mine.? tony: solid contributor, i can see him and rondo as a starting unit on a playoff team pruitt: still too early to tell, but sure has a beautiful shot. could be gerald henderson...or jo jo white. watching the hawks game, how the hell could we have chosen kedrick brown over joe johnson in that delk/rogers trade? someone wasn't paying attention. random question: who do you think is the most overrated player in the nba today??? Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Patterson Subject: Re: turning jr and scal into something. To: Celtics Mailing List Message-ID: <665973.50035.qm at web63803.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The question is (and always should be before trading a young player)- ? Will J.R. Giddens be a significant contributor in the years to come? ? ? This begs the question- ? Will any of the "young guns" on the Celtics be in the starting lineup for future championship teams? ? ? ? I look forward to your reply. ? Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Fri Dec 19 13:03:00 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (Adam Patterson) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:03:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Bulls' Thomas Out Tonight Against Celtics Message-ID: <724621.82684.qm@web63806.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Tyrus Thomas is out tonight? ? his concussion might be partly due to his last game in Boston where he shot 2 for 17 :) ? From: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/1339489,CST-SPT-bull19.article All tests were normal Thursday after Bulls doctors checked out Tyrus Thomas' concussion at Rush University Medical Center. Thomas left after playing six minutes Wednesday in the Bulls' overtime victory against the Los Angeles Clippers and didn't travel to Boston, where the Bulls will try to snap the Celtics' 16-game winning streak tonight. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail From patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au Fri Dec 19 13:06:20 2008 From: patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au (patterson.adam at yahoo.com.au) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:06:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: NBA.com: Sophomore Celtics reflect on champion journey Message-ID: <1150454987.1831751229691980307.JavaMail.tomcat@localhost> *Please note, the sender's email address has not been verified. just found this... enjoy! ******************** If you are having trouble with any of the links in this message, or if the URL's are not appearing as links, please follow the instructions at the bottom of this email. Title: NBA.com: Sophomore Celtics reflect on champion journey Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to access the sent link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=13896658&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to SAVE THIS link: http://www.savethis.clickability.com/st/saveThisPopupApp?clickMap=saveFromET&partnerID=401129&etMailToID=13896658&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to forward this link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=forward&etMailToID=13896658&partnerID=401129&pt=Y ******************** Email pages from any Web site you visit - add the EMAIL THIS button to your browser, copy and paste the following into your Web browser: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=browserButtons&pt=Y" ********************* Instructions: ----------------------------------------- If your e-mail program doesn't recognize Web addresses: 1. 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Click Go or press Enter or Return on your keyboard. ******************** From gk_tyler at yahoo.com Fri Dec 19 13:54:27 2008 From: gk_tyler at yahoo.com (gene kirkpatrick) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:54:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: turning jr and scal into something In-Reply-To: <741946.44230.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <876344.80626.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 12/19/08, steve knight wrote: if danny saw enough to draft them, they must have promise. i honestly haven't seen enough of jr to make an educated comment, but he certainly has the size and drive to be a contributor. as for the young guns: rondo: is in the top 5 pgs now and rising. will be the pg and leader for the next 10-15 years, barring injury davis: a savvy, solid contributor for years to come. will get better and better. i can see him starting with rondo and perk eventually. powe: if he adds a medium range shot, he'd be dangerous. he could start on a championship team in 5 years perk: i can't believe i'm saying this, but he's already a borderline all star. there's no reason he can't get better every year for the next 6-8 years. walker: your guess is as good as mine. tony: solid contributor, i can see him and rondo as a starting unit on a playoff team pruitt: still too early to tell, but sure has a beautiful shot. could be gerald henderson...or jo jo white. watching the hawks game, how the hell could we have chosen kedrick brown over joe johnson in that delk/rogers trade? someone wasn't paying attention. random question: who do you think is the most overrated player in the nba today? Great thumbnail of our young talent. It's amazing how Rondo ?(speed) and Perk (size) have evolved--Rondo quickly and Perk ?slowly. They are truly the cornerstone for the next decade ?but also give hope that this team may have more than a two ?or three year run at the top. l. I agree that Davis and Powe could be a starting combo ?(sharing the PF position and that Rondo and Tony could ?start at guard, but even with a 20 ppg Bill Walker at SF, ?we would lack scoring power. 2. Pruitt could be a better than House #3 guard. 3. I think it could be a playoff team, but not a finals ?team without some upgrade in scoring power. Seems like ?that needs to come from SG & SF; plus, with Davis & Powe, ?there's not much shot-blocking threat. 4. I've always blamed the Joe Johnson trade on the coach, ?not the GM. 5. Most overrated: no clue. What a season! Gene From joshr at shaw.ca Fri Dec 19 14:52:25 2008 From: joshr at shaw.ca (Josh Rice) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 06:52:25 -0800 Subject: Colors to a blind man In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7au4gf$19ll0p@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Living in Canada, I get to see many away games with the other team's announcers. This is really fun - you get comments like "it seems like they're playing 7 guys" on a regular basis. What you never get is an understanding of the phenomenal game the C's are playing. They have never seen this kind of hoops before because it hasn't been played since the 80's, and they don't understand the difference between the C's and the "numbers and dunks" game played by the rest of the league. Last night I heard "Rondo is a liability in the half court" and laughed out loud. Byron Scott knows - he said it after the Hornets game, I think the quote was "the Celtics have taken it to another level - I haven't seen this since the 80's". Relish every moment, folks, this is pantheon stuff. Barring injury, this could be one of the top 5 all-time teams. As a teenager I saw Bill Russell lead the first all-black starting five on the floor (my all-time top sports experience). I watched Cowens dominate with intensity and Bird with total mastery. This team is in that class - to fans like me it's a drink of water after 20 years in the desert. Joshr From kmalo17 at verizon.net Fri Dec 19 15:36:29 2008 From: kmalo17 at verizon.net (Kim Malo) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:36:29 -0500 Subject: Colors to a blind man In-Reply-To: <7au4gf$19ll0p@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <7au4gf$19ll0p@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0KC400HO4RARSEE0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> Nice post. Thanks for the laugh at the opposing announcers. People are shocked when I often can't remember the exact score after I've been to a game but I'm too busy doing what you're telling us to do and relishing the basketball. It's exactly how we got that 92nd point and kept them from getting that 88th that matters to me. The exact final score's just details. Kim At 09:52 AM 12/19/2008, Josh Rice wrote: >Living in Canada, I get to see many away games w