rating Pierce

Wed Oct 10 10:53:03 CDT 2007

I agree that Pierce has seemed undiscliplined and unfocused at times.  I recall that he needed a veteran teammate, like Walker, to get him focused.  I think now he has 2.

"Berry, Mark" <Mark.Berry at Fahlgren.com> wrote:  Pierce is going to be fascinating to watch this season. He has shown he
can play in a team framework in the past at Kansas and in his time in
Boston under Pitino. But it has been so long, and so much damage was
done with ObieBall, that you have to wonder if he can change the way he
plays. He has done it in spurts with Doc, but not consistently. He has
grown up as an NBA player without structure, leadership or great talent
around him. He has been asked/forced to carry so much of the load that
he too often tries to do it alone. Can he go back to being a player who
plays within a team, without the ball in his hands all the time, or is
he too far down the road of "volume scorer?"

The theory for years has been that Pierce needs a Garnett to get him to
crunch time, and Garnett needs a Pierce to hit the big shots when they
get there. Will it play out that way?

The same questions surround Ray Allen. He has been asked to carry a
tremendous load for a lot of years. Can he adjust to being the third
option on the Celtics?

We've seen guys make the adjustment when they join strong, established
teams (Stackhouse in Dallas, for instance). But this is unprecedented in
my memory. I don't remember three guys being brought together as the
nucleus of a completely new team, each of them bringing the baggage of
years of conditioning with bad teams.

My instinct is to believe that things will go smoothly as long as the
season is going well. But if the team hits a rough patch, will these
guys revert to trying to do it themselves? Pierce, for one, has always
been mentally undisciplined in those situations. Can they maintain that
do-it-together approach when the going gets tough?

Mark 

-----Original Message-----
From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
Behalf Of Alex Goldblatt
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:57 AM
To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Subject: Re: rating Pierce

Have to disagree with this premise of equals:

- even though Kobe tried to present the situation of being equal, it
always
been Shaq's team. Proof came right after he's left to Miami - he's got
another ring, Kobe failed miserably even to make the playoffs.

- Kobe's ego destroyed the team - who said that he can fit into any team
now
at all? 2 players I hate the most: AI and Kobe. Both are the ultimate
overblown ego carriers, both represent everything opposite to my
understanding and love for this game.

On adding the equal talent: typically you have 2 ways to accomplish
things
in the team sports:

- you surround your star with the best supporting cast to cover the
holes,
and build your team strategy around single dominant player (triangle,
etc.)

- you build the TEAM - see Det, Spurs, Celtics of the past, Bad Boys,
etc. -
the way I like it the most (and actually the only way to be a dominant
force
in basketball). It also gives you huge flexibility in the long run
because
you do not depend on any particular player anymore. You just need to
keep
the puzzle as the whole finding new pieces to fit. Then it comes down to
the
competition of which team is actually better vs. some weird comparison
of
Shaq vs. Kobe, LeBron vs. Paul, etc. In basketball - only TEAM wins.
This is
a constantly overlooked factor (thanks MJ) for the past 20 years or so.
I
hope Danny will be able to resurrect that for us, but it will take Paul
finally growing up as a player in his role as a team member. That's the
biggest challenge for him this season - to distance himself from
'Toine's,
Kobe's and such. I'm not worried about the other two, btw (i.e. KG and
RA) -
I rate both of them as team players much higher than Paul.

AG

On 10/10/07, gene kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> Ravi, good point about Kobe. As a co-equal? to Shaq, it worked. I
> agree that LeBron plus Garnett plus whomever would be a title
> contender. The problem is, when you start with LeBron or Kobe, it's
hard to
> add on an equal talent. They may want another big time player, but no
one
> wants to hand them the chance. We've done it somehow, so it's
> possible. I'm a fan of LeBron because of his talent and attitude, and
I'm
> not suggesting that he's fostered the LeBron mystique--the media did
that
> before he hit the NBA. I just wouldn't want to go through that whole
image
> thing. I don't see it with Oden or Durant, who may be in LeBron's
league.
>
> Anyway, good points as always. New posters should note that, when
Ravi
> speaks, it's worth listening.
>
> Program note: today's game is televised on ESPN 2. Gene
>
> keltsfan wrote:
> Gene,
>
> Kobe has already "fit" into a championship team given that he's got
three
> rings. The problem now is the Lakers are not a championship caliber
team.
>
> Put Garnett and Ray Allen alongside LeBron James and the Cavaliers may
> have
> won it last year because the one player in this league who matches up
> reasonably well with Tim Duncan is Kevin Garnett.
>
> Ravi
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: celtics-bounces at igtc.com [mailto:celtics-bounces at igtc.com] On
> Behalf
> Of gene
> > kirkpatrick
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:24 PM
> > To: celtics
> > Subject: rating Pierce
> >
> > I would choose Pierce or Havlicek or D. Wade, for example, over
LeBron.
> LeBron is a
> > force of nature. He is likely, if not certainly, to be an
> all-timer--perhaps one of the top 15
> > ever. Maybe. But I resist those players who become an "institution."
Le
> team, c'est moi!
> > Unlike Garnett and Duncan, he is part of management, it seems. I
like
> his
> demeanor and his
> > teamwork, but he's not the type player I'm comfortable with on my
team.
> He's like a Kobe,
> > but nicer.
> >
> > Not that this was the question, but I think that Pierce or Wade are
the
> types who are more
> > likely to fit into a championship team. No, Pierce is not more
talented,
> but then Wilt and
> > Dr. J were more talented than our guys. Gene
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Building a website is a piece of cake.
> > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> > _______________________________________________
> > The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> > celtics at igtc.com
> > http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> _______________________________________________
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> celtics at igtc.com
> http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics
>
_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

_______________________________________________
The Boston Celtics Mailing List
celtics at igtc.com
http://www.igtc.com/mailman/listinfo/celtics

---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.    