What would you have done differently?

[Sean Giovanello]

If its 9 or 10 million, then I would pass.  The cost proves a deal breaker.
I have a feeling that we could get him for the 7-8 million range.   If we
cant, then its fine to pass.

As for the luxury tax, it would depend on what we sent back.  When Miami did
the sign and trade for Antoine, we received back Borchardt, Woods, a 2nd
rounder, and some exemptions iirc.   In this case, we could send Ratliff to
consumate the deal or Scalabrine, Gomes, and Allan Ray which knocks off 5
million or so.  Orlando would have the benefit of getting two guys in Scal
and Gomes who are NBA players and Gomes would be a guy they might target for
resigning.  I dont see us resigning Gomes because he will be looking for the
midlevel.

I think if we are going to contend we are going to need to be over the tax
limit for the next few years.  Danny is talking more deals and they are
rolling the dice on contending with Allen and his salary.  I dont see us
making a huge deal and (to be honest) doubt we would even make one this
big.   I think with Darko we would be getting a young player, a frontcourt
player, a talented player, and a guy with his best years in front of him.

I hear you on all the things you say, but this holds true for any sign and
trade.  I think it makes sense to go for it on a guy like Darko within
reason.  He is the one guy out there night now who seems like a moneyball
deal at a sizeable contract (a midlevel plus).  I dont see him getting 10
million a year as in his best season he averaged 8 and 5.  If he is gonna be
looking for 10 million, Al is gonna get a max offer.

Anyway, his is the door I would have been banging at the other night if I
were running the Celtics.  A 3 man forward - center rotation of Perkins,
Jefferson, and Blount (all under 23) and locked up going forward would be an
excellent way to be contenders for years to come.

On 7/2/07, mark at 10thumbs.org <mark at 10thumbs.org> wrote:
>
> a few thoughts here Sean...
>
> 1. I don't think ORL let's Darko go for less than $9-10M (which IIRC would
> still let them add a Rashard Lewis or Gerald Wallace).
>
> 2. Lets say they would do a S&T for Darko at $8M -- that would push us
> over the lux tax the next 2 years (after this) assuming a max extension to
> Big Al; we'd also lose Gomes and Allen b/c we'd be unable to resign them
> (b/c of the lux tax).
>
> 3. RE: sign and trades --- as i've written before, it's all up to the team
> holding a players rights and what they want/how helpful tehy want to be.
> For example, ORL might prefer Ratliff's contract from us (than Scal,
> Telfair & Gomes) because it would give them the chance to add a big free
> agent again next summer...
>
> They might want (just as a total hypothetical) Boris Diaw from PHO b/c
> they don't anyone else PHO might want.
>
> They might simply refuse to do a sign and trade if Darko wanted to sign w/
> Miami b/c they don't want him to go there so he'd have to settle for less
> money. It all depends on the FA's destination.
>
> It generally breaks down this way:  if Team A (ORL) is going to let a
> player walk (Darko) they may do a sign-and-trade if (a) they don't mind
> him going to that team, and (b) the other team has pieces they want and
> that other team is willing to part with.  Those may simply be salaries
> that better fit with TEAM A's salary cap projections...
>
> Theorhetically, we could sign-and-trade Ratliff for Gerald Wallace, but
> Charlotte wouldn't do that b/c they don't need the cap room... and
> refusing to do so makes it harder for Wallace to leave.  Which is what DET
> did when Ben Wallace left for CHI. Whereas when they saw Grant Hill was
> leaving they opted to get Chucky Atkins and a young kid named Ben Wallace,
> rather than letting Hill leave for nothing.
>
> Likewise ORL could see if PHO will deal them, say, Kurt Thomas rather than
> making Grant Hill sign for the MLE in PHO (which PHO won't b/c they need
> Thomas' contract to expire to avoid the lux tax).
>
> whew... sorry i dind't mean to go on so long.
>
> (the other) mark
>
>
>
> -----------
> I think if we could get him for 7.5 million a year on a five year deal
> that
> the contract would be tradeable if it didnt work out.  He would still be
> young enough and talented enough to make someone bite.  We have seen a lot
> of guys overpaid for the midlevel or midlevel plus move around via trade.
>
> The Celtics have done a good job working with big men in recent years
> (specifically with Al and Perk) and it I think it would be interesting to
> see how it played out with Darko.
>
> I have always thought the Celtics should be trying to play moneyball as
> best
> they can in the NBA.  They are financial have nots in the league because
> they wont pay the tax and they arent the most desirable destination given
> their lack of success over the last twenty years.
>
> I think Ainge has done a good job of grabbing second rounders who can play
> and provide great value per dollars spent on them.  He has even turned
> some
> of his mistakes into value - Jiri Welsch says hello.  I think the team
> could
> really benefit from having a "new age" assistant GM to work with Ainge at
> finding guys that you could give a modest outlay and have a good chance of
> them outperforming their contracts.  Someone mentioned Chuck Hayes and he
> would be a low rent version of this.  However, when I look around the
> league
> I would rather have Darko than a Kapono or Walton and a Rashard Lewis is
> going to get 10 million to a max per annum.  Darko - to me - seems to have
> the right combination of youth, size, skill, and price to take a gamble
> on.
> At worst he and Perk combine to be a 11-12 million monster at the PF-C
> slot.  Think of it as giving him modern day Blount money with a ceiling to
> be much higher.
>
> Out of all the fantastical moves that are being talked about, I would be
> fine with adding Darko and lower priced tough big guy - Reggie Evans or
> Chuck Hayes to give us some more oomph up front.
>
> I dont know what it would cost in a trade, but historically teams dont get
> a
> whole lot back in these sign and trades.  Maybe a pick, Scal, and Gomes?
>
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