You can pick your nose and you can pick your draft choice, but...

Fri Feb 9 09:55:58 CST 2007

What did Al show prior to this year?  I dont see how anyone picks Al over
Bosh unless they are wearing Chris Wallace tinged glasses and drinking green
beer from sunup to sundown.  I think most people around the league would
take Bosh over Gasol and Jefferson is just the starting point in discussions
for Gasol.

On 2/9/07, gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> no.  I like Bosh but think he's a bit soft.  He's shown a lot more this
> year, which might mean that he's hitting his stride.  I like Al's body
> better and his drive, especially in rebounding.  I think he will be a better
> low post scorer; clearly, Bosh has the shooting touch over him now.
>
> ryanmnelson at verizon.net wrote:  you're joking about taking Al over Bosh,
> right?
>
> rmn
>
> >From: gene kirkpatrick
> >Date: 2007/02/09 Fri AM 08:17:40 CST
> >To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: Re: You can pick your nose and you can pick your draft
> choice, but...
>
> >fair enough; especially since I would take Al over Bosh right now
> >
> >ryanmnelson at verizon.net wrote: ok Gene, gentleman's bet then. mark it
> down and we'll talk in 8 years.
> >
> >just to be clear, the all-star forwards this year are Chris Bosh, Caron
> Butler, Dwight Howard, Rip Hamilton, Jermaine O'Neal, Vince Carter
> (guard/forward), Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Garnett, Shawn Marion, and Dirk.
> >
> >I don't see Al ever being as good as those guys, except for maybe Caron
> Butler, but he is a bit of an anomaly this year (maybe al is that anomaly in
> the next 8 years, but i am not holding my breath).
> >
> >Anyway, Bosh and Howard will be on the team every year Al is playing so
> that leaves ~8-9 spots for Al to take with many of those tied up for the
> next 3-4 years (Dirk, duncan, garnett,marion). With Durant coming into the
> league as well as some other solid forward prospects and superior players to
> Al like Zach Randolph still around, i highly doubt Al has much of an
> opportunity to make an all-star game.
> >
> >All speculation though.
> >
> >rmn
> >
> >rmn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: gene kirkpatrick
> >>Date: 2007/02/08 Thu PM 02:35:24 CST
> >>To: The Boston Celtics Mailing List
> >>Subject: Re: You can pick your nose and you can pick your draft choice,
> but...
> >
> >>If I were a betting person, I would throw down on this one. If Al's
> level is that of double doubles, then the odds would be that somewhere in
> the next 8 years, he would be an all-star. The argument that what he's doing
> now is all we can expect of him is speculation. Who knows? But he's not
> overachieving; I think that's clear after two months. What he has shown
> offensively is the floor, not the ceiling--imo. Plus, tho' a tweener and not
> in the class with Dwight Howard, Gomes is closer to a starter in his recent
> play that most had thought. He's showing some serious shooting ability. I
> don't think the Haslems of the world have that ability. I think we need a
> big with superior rebounding ability at his position, but am very pleased
> with his progress on offense.
> >>
> >> No doubt this is a miserable time, but we have a few gems out there
> getting experience. Just in the last week, Rondo has settled the point guard
> issue (well, to my satisfaction). And he's not merely serviceable; the kid
> is brilliant. Seeing him develop along with Al and Gomes is pretty big for
> next year. Gene
> >>
> >>ryanmnelson at verizon.net wrote:
> >> 1. i will bet anyone on this list that Al Jefferson never makes an
> all-star team. I know it is not hard to value an asset you hope is going to
> be worth 2-3x in the future, but you have to be realistic. If he were on
> another team, none of you would be mentioning him as a potential all-star. I
> am not arguing that he is a bust, I thnk he can put up 17 and 10, but only
> when he is playing with a better player to take away the double teams. He is
> no Zach Randolph, which is his ceiling, and right now he is not even Nick
> Collison. And i would gladly lose this bet.
> >>
> >>2. What happens if we don't get the 1 or 2 pick or Oden and/or Durant
> don't come out? What happens if we take our crappy team as it currently
> exists and get Pierce back and then add Wright from UNC (who looked very
> good last night) or Noah (who i think can be a better Battier type player,
> which is pretty good but not all-star)? Seriously, how bad are we going to
> be if this draft fails us (we don't get oden or durant) and we still have
> boywonder danny, media saavy doc, chris "i traded for vin baker" wallace,
> and the brain doctor running our team? Can we take another year of this?
> >>
> >>rmn
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Ryan, Patrick S Maj RES USAFR 439 MSG"
> >>
> >>>Date: 2007/02/08 Thu PM 12:56:59 CST
> >>>To: celtics at igtc.com
> >>>Subject: You can pick your nose and you can pick your draft choice,
> but...
> >>
> >>>
> >>>"What I feel people do not understand is just how far we have fallen
> behind
> >>>other teams who have received more lottery picks than us,
> >>>and therefore many more talented young players than us." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>Huh? Other teams that have had more lottery picks then us (all other
> things
> >>>being equal) SHOULD be better then us! How many lottery picks have we
> had?
> >>>And not just lottery picks but picks 1-4 (where the big money all-star
> is)??
> >>>I'll tell you - none.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Jefferson has looked good offensively, but is the total package a
> future
> >>>franchise player; I don't think so." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>I don't think so either, but he's gonna be a borderline guy, will make
> a
> >>>couple (few) All-Star teams, command double teams (making the rest of
> the
> >>>team get better looks) and get double-doubles most nights if he keeps
> up his
> >>>current effort. For where we picked him in the draft you can't do any
> >>>better then that. Plus we have him for what - two more years at rookie
> >>>scale???? Every team that's won it all lately has had this type guy
> that
> >>>quietly has double-double or close to double-double numbers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Tony Allen ... too much baggage to ever fully succeed." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>It's not so much the baggage - it's the injury. His skills were so
> >>>predicated on quickness and burst that I just can't see him coming back
> the
> >>>same in the time we have him signed for and in reality wouldn't re-sign
> him
> >>>unless it was a one-two year minimum to see if he's ever going to
> return to
> >>>the brief glimpse we got. So here I agree - even though his defense was
> >>>crucial the injury has totally removed him from any plans I'd make for
> the
> >>>Celtics future.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Three of my favorite young guys, Gomes/West/Perk are heads-on-straight
> glue
> >>>guys. But would they be much more than
> >>>complementary players on a topnotch team?" - Egg
> >>>
> >>>Role players. Which, for where they were selected in the draft is
> exactly
> >>>what they should be! A second rounder and two guys selected in the late
> >>>first round have about a 70-30 chance of busting (70) versus making it
> (30 -
> >>>meaning playing more then three years or beyond their rookie deal).
> What
> >>>should have been done instead with those picks? There isn't the NFL
> luxury
> >>>of cutting these guys and going out and signing three vet starters for
> the
> >>>same money. When you say you do not understand on your first comment it
> is
> >>>this I don't comprehend - what exactly should have been done with these
> >>>selections? You can't trade picks for anyone good because of the salary
> cap.
> >>>Should we have tanked THEN instead?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Fun to watch pure point guard Rondo, an unlimited ceiling ... hope so,
> but
> >>>maybe not." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>Another twenty something pick right? So what's the downside? If he
> makes it
> >>>big once again he's more then the value of what that level pick is
> supposed
> >>>to be. Even if he is just a 10 year NBA guy that's exactly what twenty
> >>>something picks are supposed to be!! The fallacy here is that we can
> just
> >>>cut these guys after a year or so, no harm no foul. The NBA doesn't
> work
> >>>that way. Trades? Sure, but you have to throw in what, about three
> rookie
> >>>contracts to get one player back equal money? Another of Ainge's
> mistakes is
> >>>that he is trying to balance future and present, which again due to the
> >>>system leaves you mediocre forever. Add in his trying to go "future"
> with
> >>>mid-twenty draft picks and of course we're stuck with little leverage.
> Once
> >>>again - if you choose "future" you have to fail miserably at least one
> >>>season (if not more if there isn't a "franchise" guy coming out) to get
> >>>all-star talent in the draft. If you choose "present" you have to have
> an
> >>>owner that will spend, spend, spend (but you could end up the Knicks
> instead
> >>>of the Mavs so be warned). The only way I can think of to balance the
> system
> >>>is to know when to trade those aging vets for #1 picks to bad teams so
> you
> >>>can replenish with HIGH draft picks to an already good team.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Telfair, no way; Powe, no way. Allen Ray, no way." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>Yep - Telfair = Ainge's biggest mistake by far. We know that. Powe and
> Ray -
> >>>their salaries together don't bring in a difference maker. Maybe we
> could
> >>>sign a vet min. guy - okay, I'll grant that and based on my last post
> maybe
> >>>that's exactly what Ainge should've done, forgone the Ray's and Powe's
> of
> >>>the world, but they weren't expected to play anyway. How many NBA teams
> go
> >>>13 men deep? None, they're not supposed to, but I agree that some teams
> >>>stash vets there to be insurance while most teams stash a couple
> late/second
> >>>round projects just to see if they can catch lightning in a bottle.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"And even if we get lucky and draft young Oden, we will still be
> several
> >>>years away (if ever) from accomplishing the mission Danny set out
> >>>to accomplish in three years time." - Egg
> >>>
> >>>That requires prognostication skills I don't possess. Who can tell, but
> >>>let's say we do get lucky and draft either Oden or Durant. If we stay
> >>>"normally healthy" meaning we don't lose Pierce an extended period and
> no
> >>>other starter is lost for more then 7-10 games, none concurrently, then
> that
> >>>is undoubtedly Danny Ainge's LAST CHANCE. If that team cannot make the
> >>>playoffs at a minimum then Danny Ainge (along with Doc at mid-season)
> should
> >>>be fired - no doubt, no question, no argument.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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