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Re: Stones vs Who vs Kinks

> I like the Stones when I'm mad at a woman.


No one does a "put-down" song better than the Stones.
"You're obsolete my ba-BAH..."

> Every band has songs that are above what they
> normally produce.


I'm sure Pete is trying to create a gem most of the

> You *can't* say that about the other bands you've
> listed.

I certainly can!

> Sorry Grandpa, but I've tried to get into The Kinks,
> but couldn't.

That doesn't mean they're not great. It was The Kinks
who got me into The Who.

> Maybe before 1971.

1972, actually. Muswell Hillbillies is one of their
two best albums (Arthur being the other). However,
they started a year earlier and after 1973 what was
happening to The Who. So it's about the same.

> And don't think I don't know that you are a big
> Kinks head (?).

They were my second favorite band. Now XTC.

> Ooooo, "senses working ohhhhh-*verrrrr*-time."  

Clever song with great lyrics. But to be a perfect Pop
song, the music is the more important aspect.

> And, I Can See For Miles is no where near the
> quality song as Baba, or WAY, or WGFA, BBE.

I completely disagree. In fact, I'd say it's a lot
better than WAY and BBE. It's the most perfect WHO
song, in any case.

> Hey, I'm not the one requesting them on the radio.

Does radio still take requests??? Here the shows are
taped in advance, DJ comments made between songs. I
believe this is the standard practice these days.

> I'm not the executive at the radio station
> determining what songs the public is still asking

That's not how they determine what's played on an
oldies station. It's all about sales. Why do you think
there's so much Eagles and so little Who?

> Not even *some* of the time.

Maybe not in Vermont...I've never been there. But in
places like Phoenix, NYC, Jacksonville (Fla.), New
Orleans, St. Louis, and so on and so forth and all
points in between. These days almost all the radio
stations play the same thing, based on the same

> You can't with a straight face tell me those lame

They're not lame, just because you couldn't get into

> staples...grand songs.

OK, I see...you are into anthems. Well, The Kinks
didn't write anthems. That doesn't mean the songs
aren't as good, though. It's all about how it touches
people, and The Kinks certainly have done that. "And I
don't/Feel afraid/As long as I gaze on Waterloo
sunset/I am in paradise/Everyday I look at the world
through my window..." Those lyrics are as good as BBE,
my friend.

> I grew up listening to DC radio.

Yeah, I've heard The Kinks on DC radio. My wife is
from Greenbelt.

> I've listened to Baltimore radio.


> Step back and look at what is still played.

The Eagles. Bob Seger. Peter Frampton.

> upon top-100 song shows, and many other survey's
> conducted.

And none place The Who over the Eagles. So I guess the
Eagles are the greatest of all.

> The very top always includes Beatles, Stones, Zep,
> and .....Da Who.

So you're saying these bands are in the same league as
The Who?

> The Kinks and XTP are side-notes in Rock and Roll's
> diary....Rock and Roll's biography.

Look...of the British bands from the early 60's, and
that's what music since has been based on, there were
four major bands. The Beatles, Stones, Kinks and Who.
The Who were last on that list. The Kinks were more
popular (since that's what you're basing it on) than
The Who until Tommy. Those are the facts. As far as
being a side note, Pete Townshend MUST have liked them
since he based his first single ON THEIR SOUND.
Get out of that one!

> And, that claim is supported by what?

Well, they play Mr. Roboto more than they do Baba!

> You smile for fear of setting a looney off.


> Mark called The Who bland!  Mark called The Who
> bland!

No I didn't.

> You're saying Quad isn't untouchable??

I didn't say that. But there are albums that there are
some that come close! Deal with it!

> While Quad is clearly a fan acquired taste (for

YEAH! What QUAD song do they play on the radio? NONE,
that's what! Even when it came out, they barely played
The Real Me and nothing else!
That explosion was the sound of your argument
self-destructing like Bush's chances of being selected
Prez again.

> Quad songs are not at the echelon of WGFA, Baba,
> etc.

No, they're one higher.

> But, we're talking about the mass public.

All those Eagle fans, you mean? The vast unwashed Joe
and Josephine Six-Pack? Give them Steve Miller and
they're happy.

> Hell, The Kinks and XTC don't even make it to the
> "legends of rock".

The Kinks do! XTC came too late, but that doesn't mean
they haven't recorded Who level music. They have.
Kinks' songs played on the radio: YRGM, All Day And
All Of The Night, Lola, Sunny Afternoon, Dedicated
Follower Of Fashion, Tired Of Waiting For You, A Well
Respected Man, Celluloid Heroes, Death Of A Clown,
Waterloo Sunset. And I'm in the South, where British
Rock is NOT popular.

> You're at the beach.

In a music store!

> Do a survey.
> I'll do one here

There's no point. In the South, I can tell you already
Lynyrd Skynyrd would win. And they...just...SUCK!!!!

> If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and

You're only saying that because my daughter bought a
duck! Unfair! I was against it from the beginning! And
she's not bringing it home (from college).

> Sure kicks the ass of any song by The Kinks, XTC,

I'll name you one of each:
Kinks - Shangri-La. (PLEASE check the lyrics before
you answer)
XTC - Respectable Street (ditto)

> Shame I can't say the same for The Kinks or XTP-P.

You can't, but I can.

> (sorry, I know you're a fan..)

It's there for a reason! "12345!"



> Glad that's settled.

Glad your stomach is settled.

> Or, simply getting an education?

No, that's the last thing they want their followers to

> I, to my core, don't understand why anyone these
> days, let alone an entire political group would want
> to discriminate against other human beings.

It's easy to see which party forces their personal and
religious beliefs on the other, isn't it? Freedom,

> Ha!  I like that tune.  But is XTC even played on
> the radio?  I mean
> besides college radio stations?  


If being played on the radio equals great music,
then..."You can check out anytime you want/But you can
never leave..."

> The Kinks?  Never liked 'em much either.

And you call yourself a Punk...sheesh...

> Oooh, I don't know.  You don't think You Really Got
> Me and Lola are
> considered staples in rock?

Jim M:

Of COURSE they are!

> But, again, I hear your point.


OH, I see how it is! You see the point when HE says
it...uh huh...

> And thanks Mark for the explanations on GYYYO, and
> to the guy (if it wasn't Mark)


It was Bruce. Ask him anything, he'll know. I don't
even approach his expertise.

> Bah.  He's on the digest, so the worst you ever get
> back from him is a one
> or two line quip in the middle of a 20 topic post.


Despite what Kevin implies, I'm really not such a bad
guy. I guess Kinks-haters might not think so...
> However, all the shows recorded were after Oakland.


Perhaps, but that's not what Das Book says. It
specifically says they recorded Baltimore and Madison
Square. Also it says it came out "before Christmas"
which is after the end of the Stones tour.

> legitimate stores were selling bootlegs at the time
> as they weren't illegal.

The Stones' tour manager bought a copy of Live'R for
himself and one for each of the band.

> There was some tinkering with guitars.


> I can ask my Stones friend but haven't these
> appeared elsewhere since.

That I know. I was hoping for them on the remastered
set or 40 Licks, but every place Satisfaction appears
(at least four places), it's the same version.

> One of the local radio stations only plays the
> Satisfaction now.

Yeah, I've heard them here too. I think they're still
using the original Hot Rocks CDs.

> Opinions vary, but Brusels is not only a great
> performance it's well
> recorded.  Huge stereo separation, it's easy to tell
> what Mick T. and Keith
> are doing.

The same is true for Leeds.

> I haven't heard any new news but early in the year
> Green broke up the band
> and disappeared.

Damn. That's not good news to me.
> To me there were a couple of performance drop offs,
> one after '70 and a
> major one ofter '73.  I put it down to drugs

Could be. Yeah, in `68-70 they were as good as The
Who, live.

> To me that's what The Stone are the best bar band in
> the world, nothing
> wrong with that.

You can't imagine The Who in a bar.

> Well it has worn thin on me lately because of Bobby
> Keys 10m sax solo of the
> last 10 years tours.

I heard it too much, even back then. And they played
here on that tour, for 2000 people (my wife and I
being two of them).

> I'll give you Beggers but Goats is a major drop off
> for me.

The weak songs are definitely weak, but then there's
Can You Hear The Music, 100 Years Ago, Coming Down
Again and Heartbreaker.

> "If you look at Who history it's easy to forget we
> started with
> 'I Can't Explain,' which was a *desperate* copy of
> The Kinks.
> I obviously worship -- well, actually, worship isn't
> the word,
> I *exalt* -- Ray Davies, but also Dave Davies.  The
> Kinks were
> just spectacularly brilliant.  People in America
> talk about 'The
> Beatle, the Stones, The Who.'  For me it's 'The
> Beatles, the
> Stones, The Kinks.'  *They* were the ones."


"You are forgiven (You are for....giv...en...")

> "It's his (Ray Davies) SGT. PEPPER, it's what makes
> him the 
> definitive pop poet laureate in a way that Paul
> McCartney would 
> like to be but could never be.

Heh heh heh.

"He'll learn at some point that you have to face
problems rather than to blame others -- and the only
thing more glaring here than his lack of leadership is
his lack of knowledge."
                 Joe Lockhart 

Cheers         ML

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