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Re: Senator, you're no Hitler



>Of course there is, and I've alluded to it before.

Alan:

I hate to tell you this, but your allusion doesn't make it so. Hitler was the most horrific monster humanity has ever known. Saddam is not even in his league by a million miles, and has made no real moves in that direction. This is not to say he's a good person or even merely bad, but terms like "the next Hitler" and such are overused and inappropriate. I have no problem taking him out. Using the army is the wrong way to do it. It will ONLY make things worse. I don't like "worse." Personally.

>As do I. Apparently you don't. Apparently you're not going to be persuaded.

Nope, the truth is the truth and I will not be persuaded away from it with smoke and mirrors and half-truths and misdirections.

>Nonsense. Hussein has free will.

So he's supposed to guess we don't want him to do something that we're providing him funding and weapons do to? Methinks you set too high a standard...and when did WE get to tell everyone else what they can and cannot do, anyway? How would YOU like it if other countries started imposing their will on us? "Do unto others..."

>Regardless of our alleged (but unsubstantiated)

Completely substantiated. We gave him money, we gave him weapons, and Reagan cleared US companies to sell him chemicals and biological samples (including Anthrax and Smallpox) for "research purposes." These are undeniable and substantial facts.

>OWN SOURCE

"My own source" was the first site I found with Google. There are many others (research for yourself), and many times throughout the years I've read articles about this. It has been confirmed to me by a friend who is a Middle East consultant to the "administration" (and a Republican). But if you knew ANYTHING about Tarik Aziz you'd know he's a slimey little fuck who will say anything he thinks wants to be heard. So I take his "admission" considering the source.

>Oh, balls. Rationality does not say everything's as important as 
everything else.

THAT is my point! People who have actually said they intend to sell nukes to terrorists and rogue states are more dangerous than someone who "might" develop nukes in the next five years and "could" give chemicals and biological weapons to terrorists. The rationale for attacking Iraq has gone though many (weak and oft discounted by our own intelligence agencies) incarnations before settling on "for violating UN resolutions to disarm." Doesn't that tell you anything?

>North Korea, just be patient. Maybe after Bush takes care of this 
war he can fight yours.

Bush can't even eat a pretzel without choking on it. But I don't suggest war in that case, either, but instead a surgical strike. But THAT won't whip up support for a failed administration, so...

>ignore a power-lusting murderer.

I didn't say ignore him but instead be intelligent about our response. Unfortunately it takes an intelligent leader and we don't have one. This could have been handled if Bush hadn't been up there screaming how we'll take him out with or without help from day one. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

>Yeah. Very little freedom and democracy in the US at all. Barely 

You'll be the first to howl and blame liberals when it comes to you. Peace demonstrators are traitors, though...whoops, there goes the first amendment. No longer is a warrant required for intrusion into your house if terrorism is suspected...didn't there used to be a constitution? And, after all, "terrorist" is a most slippery term. Applies it seems even to someone sitting home quietly with a joint in hand. Or writing an Email, making a phone call, wearing a "He's not MY president" button...

>I've heard they hate each other, but they are united in their hatred 
of America.

Yeah...I wonder who united them...

>That doesn't matter, ultimately.

It does matter, and more than anything else. You can't make a dog into a pony. Muslims will NOT accept Western Culture, and trying to force it is a HUGE mistake. The kind of mistake that we will pay for longer than I can even imagine.

>No. Hussein initiated violence long ago against his own people.

With stuff we gave him and we didn't seem to care until "all of a sudden" when we need it. The same conditions were there when Daddy Bush left Saddam in charge. Why wasn't it important then but is now, if we're to be liberators?

>Apparently you DO want the US to declare war on every dictatorship 
simultaneously. I'm glad Bush is more moderate in his views.

I was merely stating an "if/then." I personally think we need to stop messing around in everyone else's business. I hate to agree with Pat Buchanan, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

>We were given a reason on 9/11/2001. I'm surprised you'd need a reminder.

I have to wonder how many times people who support the butchery to come keep trying to link an event that has nothing to do with to the war. I'm suprised you'd need to be reminded of that.

>Your argument approaches the Big Lie theory of rhetoric...just repeat 

No, it's just a fact! If you're defending yourself it's one thing...if you're attacking someone who's done nothing to you it's another. Period. If you have to make yourself believe there's some mythical connection between 9/11 and Iraq to help you sleep at night, so be it. But I can't stomach that sort of deception, myself. The Big Lie is that attacking Iraq has ANYTHING to do with terrorism...it was planned before 9/11, remember?

>Well, for one thing, China has four times the population of the U.S. 

What's that got to do with it? What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, correct? "You're either with us or against us." China isn't with us.

>Does NOT declaring war on China reveal some sinister conspiracy

You've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh.

>I really don't see your point.

Only because you don't want to. I know you're capable. But here it is again: even the CIA says that this war will greatly increase terrorist attacks on and in the US. Iraq has done nothing to us, so we are in no way justified in determining the course of their future.

>"Come on. Seriously. Stop setting my house on fire. Hey guys..."
-- Mark Leaman, paraphrased

"Hey, what did I do wrong, officer? Why are you beating me? HEY!" Alan McKendrie, paraphrased, in the all too immediate future

>I absolutely love a good and intellectual debate.
We need more of it in this country. Now, more than ever.

Kevin:

And we're getting less and less. It's all down to jingoisms from the warmongers.

>Bush is the administration he chose

Jon:

His dad chose, you mean.

>With Bush we get Powell.

Who completely opposed this war until someone nudged him in the ribs and asked him if he'd like to have a political future...

>Inaction is not leadership. Clinton did not eliminate this threat when 

He tried, but the GOP jumped his ass about it...saying he was trying to distract from Monica. So it's directly their fault.

>Do you really think the UN can contain him? Why haven't they already? 

Is he not completely contained? Wow, that'd be news to him!

>You cannot negotiate with murderers.

Right. Bush intends to go in no matter what else happens.

>Is that a real number? 

Maybe not, but I wanted to see if I could spell it.

>I better be careful. If you do have a Whofest I want to be able to be 
welcome there. But I already said the "W" word. oops. ;-)

Let me make THIS clear, right now. All of you are welcome to the Whofest, even Mc and Jim should they choose to come. But I'm not going to take any shit, either. I never do.

>Saddam is an opportunist.

Kevin:

So is Bush. Really, Laden is his best friend. No one else has benefited more from Laden's actions. And the reverse could also be said...thanks to Duh-Bya the US is now fulfilling Laden's prophesy that we will take over the Middle East, be hated by most of the world, economy is in shambles, and many here are frightened out of their wits. Set, match, game.


"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
                                 Isaac Asimov

                 Cheers             ML
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