Re: Another brick in the herb

["Mark R. Leaman" <mleaman@sccoast.net>]

> respect for Roger Daltrey and .. ahem.... herb.

Melaine:

Extremely good choices, both.

> And all American black music back to white?

Keets:

No. Rap? No.

> They were co-mingled from the
> beginning.  There was no blues, gospel or jazz in Africa in 1860.

"Call and response" came from African tribal music, became Gospel when it
got over here (as Christianity was forced down their throats), was a large
part of Blues and then Rock N Roll, which became Rock in 1965 when The Who
released the single My Generation.

> There's still a folk tradition in the US, and it's not related to country

True. But that doesn't mean Country didn't come from Folk. Listen to some
Roy Acuff sometime. Johnny Cash's earliest music can easily be called Folk
(although I usually call it Punk Country), and he certainly did some
traditional Folk songs (like Long Black Veil).

> Do you think black gospel sounds like Ledbelly/Johnson blues?

Call and response, my friend, call and response.

> That's definitely from black Gospel, but I don't much hear of that sound
in
> straight blues.

Hmmm...I'm trying to imagine what you consider "straight" Blues. That might
leave out people like Bobby "Blue" Bland and Big Joe Turner. What about a
Blues songs like Sweet Home Chicago...can't you hear the Gospel in that?

> "wah-uh" sound.  Never did get it right, technology or no.

Well, it's amazing that Richards is even alive, so...

> Do you think Clapton is an imitator?

Interpreter might be more how I'd put it. Oh, he's imitated...who hasn't?
Daltrey imitated James Brown on Please Please Please and I Don't Mind as
hard as he could (did a great job too). But at worst Clapton popularized
Blues, raised the awareness, and that's not a bad thing. Contributed...uh,
yeah, I'd have to say he did.

> Mine is a drawing from John simply labeled "The Pick."

Carol:

For a second there I thought it was going to be another Townshend nose
joke...

> Here's another interesting thought about influences.  I'd like to propose
> that black musicians (such as Hendrix) would have never come up with
> feedback as a musical technique.

Keets:

"Come up with?" Most musicians were fighting to stop it. Townshend was the
first to utilize it, although Dave Davies and Jeff Beck both also claimed to
have (never heard any in a Kinks song, or any what little Tridents I've
heard). And the bottom line has to be that Hendrix copied Townshend. He's a
better guitarist, as Jeff notes, but Townshend gets full credit for being
the first.

> And the reason for that I put to the absence of Kit Lambert. Did he make
> lousy sounding recordings? Sure he did. But what made him so very valuable
> to The Who was he set the height of the hurdles The Who had to jump.

Brian:

Ah, a fine net of logic you've spun here. But Lambert had little to do with
the Lifehouse project, and nothing to do with Quadrophenia, and both works
were increasingly superior to what had come before. Lambert was definitely
the drive behind Tommy, and probably deserved some sort of co-authorship.
But it seems after that Pete was on his own, fighting against rather than
working with Kit. And fighting against can be as stimulating as a good
working partnership.

> This is what killed The Who, not Keith's death.

I hate like Hell to disagree with you, but there are factors you're not
considering. For one thing, we agree that Quad was the last Hurrah. OK, so
what was happening on the music scene at this time? Look at the other bands,
ALL of the other major bands...by 1973 and definitely from there on, Rock
music went downhill and never got to its former heights (with the exception
of Pink Floyd with The Wall, and that is after all a distorted vision of
Tommy).
The culture was changing. The mystic quality of Rock had faded. New,
upcoming shocking bands had arisen and taken the charts. The war was ending.
We were all a bit older, getting out of college and facing adulthood. No
longer teens with acid visions. As Hunter Thompson put it, it was hard to
find people to do acid with as the age of Nixon wore on.
So by 1975 The Who were just making Rock albums. Nothing special about WBN
except that it has some great songs and performances. Townshend no longer
felt his music was making a difference, and he was right. He began to wish
he could leave The Who, the band which had done so much and was left with
nothing to do.
And twas Pete Townshend killed The Who, although it took him a few more
years and a lot of grief.


> I don't have any dates.

Keets:

With all those Who guys out there?

Seriously, I think we can be pretty sure Hendrix wasn't playing feedback
when he was backing Little Richard and the Isley Brothers.

> So, if rock 'n' roll is black music, then why don't more black people play
> it?

It changed. They were playing it, and it changed into (what we called in the
`60's) Soul. You know, like Leaving Here by Eddie Holland? Some of the
Motown and Atlantic/Stax stuff could have been called Rock had they used
more guitar and less horns.

 > Hendrix heard God.  Did Hendrix have any Native American background, BTW?

Yes, he was part Cherokee...a heritage I proudly share with him (although
barely in my case).

> because we were not exposed to it that much.  It's
> unfortunate that still today, black people ask who Jimi
> Hendrix was."

Bruce:

A shame compounded by the fact that Hendrix's music was largely based on
Blues, and Blues was at the time still popular in the black community. BB
King could have played, but not Hendrix.


"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"
          George "and how much money was in them" Bush


               Cheers                 ML