PT i/v BBC 'Hard Talk' (part 2)

["Fiona P" <fionapp@hotmail.com>]

I: It was a huge boost wasn’t it?  Being on the stage, the ego was massive, 
the adrenaline was massive and yet somehow when you were playing in 
concerts, I think you said you felt distant from it.

P: You do make the assumption that there was adrenaline and ego.  I - I 
think maybe because I hung around in showbusiness so much when I was a child 
- even today I mean The Who have just done some concerts for Charity in 
America and it was very much like old times and everybody was saying ‘it was 
fantastic’ and ‘how do you feel - you must feel great’ and I just felt OK.  
It’s never really set me afire.  I’ve always felt happy backstage, I’ve 
always felt comfortable backstage, I’ve never been turned on, or frightened, 
or nervous about being a performer so it’s never had the kind of ... it has 
never really fed my ego.  What has fed my ego has been ... people saying to 
me that my work, my writing, my creative work has touched them and changed 
them and expressed things that they otherwise couldn’t express.  That is 
what has given my ego trouble (Smiles).  Because then what happens is you 
start to think ‘I know what’s in your head’ and of course you don’t - you 
only know what’s in your head.  I say what’s in my head and if you happen to 
identify with it - you say to me ‘how did you know what was in my head?’ and 
I have to honestly say I had no idea.

I: I remember you being asked whether you were ever nervous on stage and I 
think you replied that you repressed your feelings and one of the ways that 
you repressed your feelings was through alcohol which became a huge problem.

P: I certainly - I didn’t drink because I was nervous - no but I - I 
certainly used alcohol to repress my feelings - or if not repress them to .. 
medicate them.

I: (Laughs)

P: Everybody does don’t they and I think ...

I: Three bottles of brandy was a lot of medication wasn’t it?

P: Yeh in the end - in the end.. it was three bottles of brand, yeh, and 
some - a friend of mine who used to drive me for a while said he used to buy 
me five so... you know, but I’m still here.  I’m all right, I don’t drink 
any more - haven’t had a drink for 17 years so you know I mean I ...

I: ‘I Hope I Die Before I Get Old’ famous line - you nearly did didn’t you?

P: A couple of times I’m sure - and I’m very grateful, I was saying to my 
wife yesterday on the phone, you know, I - not everything in our life is 
perfect but you know I’m glad to be here, I’ve got a ten year old son, it’s 
his birthday at the weekend and you know, I’m glad that I’m here and - um 
I’m not saying I don’t have a right to be but a couple of people that were 
close to me have died - not just Keith Moon in The Who but our manager, Kit 
Lambert died - and I think both deaths ...

I: How powerfully did that hit you?

P: You know they - because they happened - both deaths happened very close 
to another series of deaths, The Who played in Cincinnati in 1978 or ‘79 and 
11 people from our audience were killed in a crush outside the concert and I 
was deeply, deeply affected by that and that’s when my drinking when from, 
you know, a few beers and a few bottles of brandy here and there, you know, 
to this serious - serious drinking.

I: The big binges.

P: Yeh.

I: In a sense drugs was a way of trying to get out of it wasn’t it?

P: For me, yeh, and it was brief.  I tried drugs because I thought ‘well 
drugs might stop me drinking’ but they - they did but I - I didn’t - drugs 
didn’t do for me what alcohol had done.  You know, I think alcohol is a 
terrific medicine, you know, it’s like - we know smoking is bad for the 
health but we also know that nicotine is a wonderful drug in some ways, the 
way that it affects, you know, it evens us out and it deals with the stress 
of modern living, it’s a sad side effect that it happens to kill us.  And 
alcohol is very similar, most people don’t have the problems with alcohol 
that I had - er ..

I: Your wife left you briefly didn’t she during that period.

P: (Smiles) Well she chucked me out I think is a better way to put it.

I: Which was a good way of dealing with it as it happened wasn’t it?

P: Yeh it was.

I: Big wake up call?

P: Yeh - yeh but it didn’t stop me drinking.

I: Well you gave up and then went back to it didn’t you?

P: I - I started again briefly in ‘93.

I: In America

P: Yeh it’s very interesting because that was, I think, you know I - I 
thought after 11 years without a drink I must be OK and er you know, I was 
for a long time I drank for about 9 years still having, you know, having a 
glass of wine and I’d do this thing of going to the local country pub and 
having half a Guinness and a steak and kidney pie and going ‘there you are 
I’m OK’ but by the end of the year I was back up to not - I’d never got back 
up to five bottles of brandy a day if indeed I ever was on that kind of 
amount but I - I certainly couldn’t handle alcohol any more.  And I had to 
admit that defeat.

I: ‘My wife says that’s what’s so awful about living with me is that when 
things are going well it’s the signal for a manic self-destructive act’ - is 
that true?  It’s what you’re quoted as saying.

P: um...

I: Is there this streak of self destruction?

P: There probably was once I hope that I’ve managed to deal with that, you 
know, I - I - in the last five or six years I’ve been in constant - not 
therapy or analysis - but I’ve been in constant counselling of various 
different sorts, you know, a lot of it has been to do with er - with 
partnerships with um behavioural things - and I tried to - and I tried also 
to deal with some of my disaffections and difficulties in a spiritual way.

I: You were religious weren’t you? You were Christian?

P: I was Christian, yeh - and - and er, you know, in the 60’s like everybody 
else I got involved in Indian mysticism, I followed and still am very very 
passionate about an Indian teacher from that time called Meher Baba and but 
... what’s been great for me is that my mother is still alive and like me 
she stopped drinking around the time that my father died in the late 80’s.

I: You’ve always been close haven’t you?

P: You know, well we haven’t really ...

I: It’s a complex relationship.

P: Yes (Laughs) a complex relationship - now we are close - she’s actually 
now - she’s been very ... (sighs) she’s been fantastically generous, she’s 
... sat with me and talked me through my childhood, you know, and it’s 
better than therapy because she’s been very very brave and when she’s been 
guilty of some omission or, you know well ‘actually yes what I did was I 
left you with my mother and went off with my lover for a dirty weekend’ in 
Skegness, you know, she tells me and she expects me to - to scream at her 
but what I say is ‘thank you’ because I remember that weekend, I remember 
it, I remember every weekend, I remember every occasion when my mother left 
me - when I was a tiny child.

I: You really do still want to know what happened to you.

P: I do now know - I know what happened because my mother told me - all I 
had to was ask her - I had to ask her the right questions and be brave 
enough to receive the answers and when I got the answers it was greatly 
helpful to me - so I’ve been very lucky - I would have loved to have done 
the same thing with my father.  Whether he would have been as gutsy as my 
Mum I don’t know - but er my Mum’s a great woman, you know, she has come a - 
and I feel now that you know I live life in parallel with her which is a 
great feeling to have.

I: And you’re happy to be in your 50’s - I think you said you were reborn in 
a way.

P: Yeh I think that’s true.

I: In what way - I mean people look at the pop icons of the 60’s and 70’s 
and wonder how they’re getting old don’t they?

P: They do and I think, you know, it’s very important...

I: So people watch you very carefully don’t they?

P: Well they might do yeh - I - it’s important...

I: You and David Bowie and Mick Jagger...

P: .. it’s important for me not to pretend, I think, you know if I was 
having a hard time I think I’d say so.  What I mean about being reborn 
really is - I was thinking on the way in in the car I was thinking you know 
um ...

I: In the Ferrari ...

P: Yeh in the Ferrari - I was thinking - and partly maybe this is why I was 
thinking it - I was thinking, you know, not everybody’s got a car like this. 
  But I was thinking, you know, ‘do I really care what a young musician 
thinks of me?’ I’ve been doing quite a few interviews with music magazines 
these days and the - and the interviewers are usually young musicologists, 
you know, who tell me the name of the latest band that I should be listening 
to who’ve always got these unbelievably long ridiculous complicated names - 
because in our business we’re running out of names - there are so many great 
bands.

And I said, you know, I like The Foo Fighters and he told me about some band 
that’s called ‘The Olivia Newton cough drop’ or something

I: (Laughs)

P: .. and um and I - I thought you know, I didn’t care, for once I’ve 
stopped minding - not care - I’ve stopped minding whether he thinks I’m OK 
or not. You know, and I think one of the things that happens is ...

I: You’re self confident.  Finally.

P: I don’t know ...

I: You’re comfortable with yourself.

P: .. that it’s self confidence I think that it really is about me thinking 
‘actually what matters to me today is that people of my age connect with me’ 
and - and - because those were the people that I wanted to serve and write 
for and be a part of and reflect and integrate with and interactive with and 
have some artistic function with when I was young - it just was convenient 
that we all happened to be the same age.  Somewhere along the line what 
happens in - in the pop industry is that you end up dealing with this wide 
age group which can be very very difficult, you know, I have people that 
come and see me play who are in their teens and they come to see me because 
of who I used to be and what I represented - and sometimes they’re surprised 
how much they identify with or enjoy what I do today but they know that I’m 
50 years old, they know that I’m over 50, they know that I’m not a teenager 
living in the 90’s and I think being a teenager living in the 90’s has to be 
different to being a teenager living in the 50’s or 60’s.

I: You once called yourself, self deprecatingly, this yob from Shepherd’s 
Bush.

P: No that was Private Eye called me that.  (Laughs) Well I loved - yes I 
...

I: You always wanted something more than rock, though, it was never enough 
was it?

P: No no no I always wanted something more *for* rock, I always wanted 
something more *for* it.  I always felt that rock was a complete art form 
and I suppose that’s really what I wanted for it to be recognised and it 
seemed - seemed to me that a lot of protagonists were very - my fellow 
protagonists, you mentioned earlier David Bowie and Mick Jagger.  When we’re 
together we talk about art.

I: (Laughs) So what happens now - you’ve got Lifehouse - you’re hoping it’s 
going to lead to some more commissions?

P: You know I would like ...

I: You want to be seen as a playwright don’t you?

P: um...

I: Now. Even more than a musician

P: I didn’t really write this play I came up with the idea - that’s why Jeff 
Young’s name - his name is on the book, you know, Kate Rowland who directed 
the play for radio and Jeff and I worked in workshop on it but you know, I 
suppose this is my story and that’s why it is The Lifehouse by Pete 
Townshend but you know I - no I don’t want to be seen as a playwright, I’m 
not a playwright.  I think the people that I’m working with at the moment on 
productions um know that what I want to be seen as is a musical dramatist 
and I think there’s a difference.

I: More Who concerts in the future?

P: Yeh I think so. I think - I think perhaps because today the friendship 
that I have with Roger and John are more important than my - my self image.  
I always had a lot of pride, I haven’t wanted to go back and now I think 
‘who cares, I’ll go back’ you know.

I: (Laughs) Pete Townshend, we look forward to them - thanks very much 
indeed.

P: Thanks a lot, thank you.

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